How to tell better stories | Matthew Dicks (Storyworthy)

如何讲出更好的故事 |马修·迪克斯（有故事性）

2023-12-15 · Lenny's Podcast · 原文

Matthew Dicks: Everyone loves the word storytelling in business.

马修·迪克斯：每个人都喜欢商业中讲故事这个词。

It's a huge buzzword.

这是一个巨大的流行词。

They love to think of themselves as storytellers, but when they come to me, they don't really want to be storytellers.

他们喜欢认为自己是讲故事的人，但当他们来找我时，他们并不是真的想成为讲故事的人。

Because to be a storyteller means you have to separate yourself from the herd, and in their mind, that risks them getting picked off, right?

因为成为一个讲故事的人意味着你必须将自己与人群区分开来，在他们看来，这有可能让他们被选中，对吗？

Getting picked off by some predator.

被一些掠食者抓走。

But the alternative is you're in the herd, which means you're forgettable.

但另一种情况是你在人群中，这意味着你会被遗忘。

I mean, how many times have you gone to a conference, listened to someone speak, and by the time you're pulling into the driveway, you really can't remember anything that they said?

我的意思是，有多少次你去参加一个会议，听别人讲话，当你把车开进车道时，你真的不记得他们说了什么？

Because that's what happens if we don't speak in story.

因为如果我们不讲故事就会发生这种情况。

Our minds are not designed to remember a pie chart or facts or statistics or platitudes or ideas that are not attached to imagery.

我们的大脑并不是为了记住饼图、事实、统计数据、陈词滥调或与图像无关的想法而设计的。

So the risk you take if you're not telling stories is that you will be forgotten.

因此，如果你不讲故事，你所冒的风险就是你会被遗忘。

100%.

100%。

You will be forgotten.

你会被遗忘。

Lenny: Today my guest is Matthew Dicks.

莱尼：今天我的客人是马修·迪克斯。

Matthew is the author of my All-Time favorite book on storytelling Storyworthy, which a previous guest of the podcast recommended to me and I couldn't put it down.

马修是我最喜欢的一本关于讲故事的书的作者，这本书是播客的前一位嘉宾向我推荐的，我爱不释手。

So I reached out to Matthew and got him on the podcast.

所以我联系了马修，让他加入了播客。

Matthew is a 59-time Moth Story Slam winner, and nine-time Grand Slam champ.

马修是 59 次飞蛾故事大满贯冠军得主，也是 9 次大满贯冠军。

He's also the author of nine other books, including fictions, rock operas, even a comic book.

他还是其他九本书的作者，包括小说、摇滚歌剧，甚至一本漫画书。

Lenny: In his day job, he is an elementary school teacher and on the side teaches both individuals and teams at companies like Slack, Amazon, Lego, and Salesforce.

Lenny：他的日常工作是一名小学教师，同时也在 Slack、Amazon、Lego 和 Salesforce 等公司教授个人和团队课程。

The skill of storytelling and public speaking through his company speak up.

通过他的公司讲故事和公开演讲的技巧会说话。

In our conversation, we get very tactical about how to tell better stories both in life and in work, how to feel more comfortable speaking on stage, how to come up with story ideas that you can deploy when the need arises.

在我们的谈话中，我们非常有策略地讨论如何在生活和工作中讲述更好的故事，如何在舞台上演讲更舒服，如何提出可以在需要时部署的故事创意。

Why every good story is centered around one five-second moment of transformation and so much more.

为什么每个好故事都以五秒的转变时刻为中心，等等。

Matt is an incredible human being and I am excited to spread his message more widely.

马特是一个不可思议的人，我很高兴能够更广泛地传播他的信息。

If you're interested in this topic, definitely pick up his book, Storyworthy.

如果你对这个话题感兴趣，一定要读一下他的书《Storyworthy》。

It'll change your life.

它会改变你的生活。

With that, I bring you Matthew Dicks, after a short word from our sponsors.

在我们的赞助商简短发言之后，我为您带来了马修·迪克斯。

Lenny: Today's episode is brought to you by OneSchema, the embeddable CSV importer for SaaS.

Lenny：今天的节目是由 OneSchema 为您带来的，OneSchema 是 SaaS 的嵌入式 CSV 导入器。

Customers always seem to want to give you their data in the messiest possible CSV file.

客户似乎总是希望在最混乱的 CSV 文件中向您提供他们的数据。

And building a spreadsheet importer becomes a never-ending sink for your engineering and support resources.

构建电子表格导入器将成为您的工程和支持资源的永无休止的接收器。

You keep adding features to your spreadsheet importer, but customers keep running into issues.

您不断向电子表格导入器添加功能，但客户不断遇到问题。

Six months later, you're fixing yet another date, conversion edge case bug.

六个月后，您正在修复另一个日期、转换边缘情况错误。

Most tools aren't built for handling messy data, but OneSchema is companies like ScaleAI and Pave are using OneSchema to make it fast and easy to launch delightful spreadsheet import experiences.

大多数工具并不是为处理杂乱的数据而构建的，但 OneSchema 是 ScaleAI 和 Pave 等公司正在使用 OneSchema 来快速、轻松地启动令人愉快的电子表格导入体验。

From embeddable, CSV import to importing CSVs from an SFTP folder on a recurring basis.

从可嵌入的 CSV 导入到定期从 SFTP 文件夹导入 CSV。

Spreadsheet import is such an awful experience in so many products.

对于许多产品来说，电子表格导入是一种非常糟糕的体验。

Customers get frustrated by useless messages like error on line 53, and never end up getting started with your product.

客户会对第 53 行错误等无用消息感到沮丧，并且永远不会开始使用您的产品。

OneSchema intelligently corrects messy data so that your customers don't have to spend hours in Excel just to get started with your product.

OneSchema 可以智能地纠正杂乱的数据，这样您的客户就不必在 Excel 上花费数小时来开始使用您的产品。

For listeners of this podcast, Oneschema is offering a $1,000 discount.

Oneschema 为该播客的听众提供 1,000 美元的折扣。

Learn more at Oneschema.co/lenny.

如需了解更多信息，请访问 Oneschema.co/lenny。

Lenny: This episode is brought to you by Maui Nui Venison, a mission-based food company, bringing the healthiest red meat on the planet directly to your door.

Lenny：本集由 Maui Nui Venison 为您带来，Maui Nui Venison 是一家以使命为基础的食品公司，将地球上最健康的红肉直接送到您家门口。

I actually joined Maui Nui Venison earlier this year after hearing their ad on the Tim Ferriss podcast, and I'm excited to be spreading the message further.

实际上，我今年早些时候在 Tim Ferriss 播客上听到了 Maui Nui Venison 的广告后加入了 Maui Nui Venison，我很高兴能够进一步传播这一信息。

Not only does this company provide the most nutrient-dense and protein-dense red meat available.

该公司不仅提供营养最丰富、蛋白质最丰富的红肉。

Their operation produces the only stress-free 100% wild-harvested red meat on the market.

他们的工厂生产市场上唯一无压力的 100% 野生红肉。

That is the only one of its kind in the world.

这是世界上独一无二的。

Actively managing Maui's invasive access to your populations, helping to restore balance to vulnerable ecosystems, food systems, and communities in Hawaii.

积极管理毛伊岛对您人口的入侵，帮助恢复夏威夷脆弱的生态系统、粮食系统和社区的平衡。

Lenny: Also, it is seriously delicious.

莱尼：而且，它真的很好吃。

Not at all gamey and easy to cook.

一点也不野味而且很容易做饭。

My wife and I made stew and steaks and all kinds of grilled goodies with the meat.

我和我的妻子用肉做了炖菜、牛排和各种烤肉。

We also feel great about it as a protein from an ethical standpoint.

从伦理的角度来看，我们也对它作为一种蛋白质感到非常满意。

I highly recommend trying their all-natural venison jerky sticks for an optimal protein snack, as well as a wide variety of fresh cuts all available in their online butcher shop.

我强烈推荐尝试他们的全天然鹿肉干棒，以获得最佳的蛋白质零食，以及各种新鲜切块，所有这些都可以在他们的在线肉店购买。

There are limited memberships available, but you can sign up and get 20% off your first order at mauinuivenison.com/lenny.

会员名额有限，但您可以在 mauinuivenison.com/lenny 注册并享受首笔订单 20% 的折扣。

That's MauiNuiVenison.com/Lenny.

这是 MauiNuiVenison.com/Lenny。

Lenny: Matt, thank you so much for being here.

莱尼：马特，非常感谢你来到这里。

Welcome to the podcast.

欢迎来到播客。

Matthew Dicks: It's my pleasure.

马修·迪克斯：这是我的荣幸。

I'm excited to be here.

我很高兴来到这里。

Lenny: I'm even more excited to have you on.

莱尼：你的加入让我更加兴奋。

The way I found out about you is a previous guest mentioned your book as a book that really transformed the way they think about storytelling and even marketing.

我认识你的方式是之前的一位客人提到你的书是一本真正改变了他们对讲故事甚至营销方式的思考的书。

And I completely agree.

我完全同意。

It's the most tactical, practical, also just entertaining book on just how to tell better stories.

这是关于如何讲述更好的故事的最具策略性、实用性和娱乐性的书。

And when I was reading, I was just like, "Hey, what if I reach out to the author of this book and see if he'd come on?" And here we are.

当我阅读的时候，我就想，“嘿，如果我联系这本书的作者，看看他是否会来呢？”我们到了。

Matthew Dicks: I'm thrilled to be here, and I appreciate what you had to say.

马修·迪克斯：我很高兴来到这里，我很欣赏你所说的。

I tried to make my book as actionable as possible.

我试图让我的书尽可能具有可操作性。

I think the only reason I'm successful in what I do is that I've been a teacher for 25 years and I'm a storyteller.

我认为我在工作上取得成功的唯一原因是我已经当了 25 年的老师，而且我是一个讲故事的人。

So the two of those things come together pretty well for me.

所以这两件事对我来说结合得很好。

Lenny: Okay, so I thought it'd be fun to start with maybe the most mind-expanding takeaway I got from this book, is this idea that all good stories are rooted in this five second moment of someone's life.

莱尼：好吧，所以我认为从这本书中得到的最能拓展思维的收获开始会很有趣，那就是所有好故事都植根于某人生命中的这五秒钟的时刻。

Can you just talk about this insight and maybe share an example or two to make this real?

您能否谈谈这一见解，并分享一两个例子来实现这一点？

Matthew Dicks: Sure.

马修·迪克斯：当然。

Well, that is true what you just said, which is essentially every story is about a singular moment.

嗯，你刚才说的是真的，本质上每个故事都是关于一个独特的时刻。

I call it five seconds.

我称之为五秒。

It can be one second honestly.

老实说，这可能是一秒钟。

It's a moment of either transformation, meaning I'm telling you a story about how I once used to be one kind of person and now I'm a new kind of person.

这是任一转变的时刻，这意味着我正在向您讲述一个故事，讲述我如何曾经是一种人，而现在我是一种新的人。

Or more common is realization.

或者更常见的是实现。

Which is I used to think something and then some stuff happened and now I think a new thing.

我曾经思考过一些事情，然后发生了一些事情，现在我思考了一些新的事情。

And those changes they take place overtime.

这些变化是随着时间的推移而发生的。

Or really what happens is it's an accumulation of events and feelings and thoughts that ultimately result in a singular moment where that flip actually happens.

或者说，真正发生的事情是事件、感受和想法的积累，最终导致了翻转真正发生的单一时刻。

And I think that's true for almost everyone.

我认为几乎每个人都是如此。

It feels like it took a long time, but there really was one second when you thought one thing and then the next second when you thought the new thing.

感觉好像花了很长时间，但确实有一秒钟你在想一件事，下一秒你就会想到新的事情。

Matthew Dicks: And the purpose of a story is essentially to bring that moment to the greatest clarity possible to the audience.

马修·迪克斯：故事的目的本质上是让观众尽可能清晰地了解那一刻。

So that the audience can, in a way experience that flip that transformation or realization along with the storyteller.

这样观众就可以在某种程度上体验到与讲故事的人一起翻转这种转变或实现。

So 98% of the story is the context to bring that singular moment into fruition.

因此，故事 98% 的内容都是实现这一独特时刻的背景。

And that is true for stories that we tell out loud, stories we tell on the page, novels that I write, movies that I watch, television shows that I watch, all of the stories of the world that are worth hearing and truly just about every story told that qualifies as a story has one of those moments.

对于我们大声讲出来的故事、我们在书页上讲的故事、我写的小说、我看的电影、我看的电视节目，以及世界上所有值得一听的故事，以及真正意义上的每一个符合故事资格的故事，都是如此。

Lenny: That's a big statement.

莱尼：这是一个重要的声明。

Is there an example too, you could share of either stories we know or just tell a short story, whatever is easier to give people like, oh wow, you're totally right?

还有一个例子吗，你可以分享我们知道的故事，或者只是讲一个短故事，无论什么更容易让人们喜欢，哦哇，你完全正确？

Matthew Dicks: Sure.

马修·迪克斯：当然。

Well, I'll tell you one that happened actually today.

好吧，我就告诉你一件今天实际发生的事情。

How about that?

怎么样？

Matthew Dicks: So I'm teaching math today.

马修·迪克斯：所以我今天教数学。

I'm an elementary school teacher and I'm teaching math, and I have a student in my class, her name is Eileen, and she's one of those kids that I worry about a little bit because she's got some anxiety.

我是一名小学老师，教数学，班上有一个学生，她的名字叫艾琳，她是我有点担心的孩子之一，因为她有些焦虑。

So she's not the most confident person in the world.

所以她不是世界上最自信的人。

And in September I was aware of this.

九月份我就意识到了这一点。

So I've been working really hard at building confidence with her.

所以我一直在努力与她建立信心。

And so today we're doing some math and I'm calling kids to the board, and I'm looking at Eileen and wondering, is today the day?

今天我们要做一些数学题，我把孩子们叫到董事会，我看着艾琳，想知道，今天是这一天吗？

Am I going to call Eileen to the board?

我要召集艾琳加入董事会吗？

Because doing so, there's a risk, there's inherent risk that she could be upset, she could embarrass herself in front of the class in a way that means something to her.

因为这样做是有风险的，存在固有的风险，她可能会感到不安，她可能会在全班同学面前让自己难堪，这对她来说很重要。

Matthew Dicks: And I just wasn't sure.

马修·迪克斯：我只是不确定。

So I didn't call her to the board.

所以我没有叫她加入董事会。

And so at the end of the math lesson, I wandered over to her desk and I said, "So Eileen, I was thinking about calling you to the board today, but I just wasn't sure if you're there yet.

因此，在数学课结束时，我走到她的办公桌前，说道：“艾琳，我今天正在考虑邀请您加入董事会，但我不确定您是否已经到了。

What do you think?" And she said to me, "First of all, I don't like that cheeky smile of yours." And that is all I needed to hear.

你觉得怎么样？”她对我说：“首先，我不喜欢你那种厚脸皮的微笑。”这就是我需要听到的一切。

That was my five-second moment.

那是我的五秒钟时刻。

That was the moment of realization where I understood that Eileen trusted me, felt confident enough in my classroom that she could be herself, that she could fire off a quip at a teacher, sort of take a shot at me.

就在那一刻，我意识到艾琳信任我，在课堂上对她有足够的信心，她可以做自己，她可以对老师说俏皮话，对我开枪。

I knew at that point that now I can call her to the board, that she's going to be okay.

那时我就知道现在我可以叫她加入董事会，她会没事的。

So essentially it is a very brief story that I could actually expand into something much more meaningful.

所以本质上这是一个非常简短的故事，我实际上可以扩展成更有意义的东西。

Matthew Dicks: I could make that into a five or six minute story about my journey with this student.

马修·迪克斯：我可以把它写成一个五六分钟的故事，讲述我和这个学生的旅程。

Which would include, in the longer version of it, the steps that I took to discover who she was, the steps I took to help her reach the point she's at now.

在较长的版本中，这将包括我为发现她是谁而采取的步骤，以及我为帮助她达到现在的水平而采取的步骤。

I would probably pull in some backstory about students who I was not so successful with.

我可能会介绍一些我不太成功的学生的背景故事。

Some of my failures before I learned how to be a better teacher.

在我学会如何成为一名更好的老师之前，我经历了一些失败。

And then I'd bring it to the moment where she says, first of all, I don't like that cheeky smile, and that's all I need to hear.

然后我会把它带到她说的那一刻，首先，我不喜欢那种厚脸皮的微笑，这就是我需要听到的。

So that is essentially a five-second moment for me.

所以这对我来说本质上是五秒钟的时刻。

That is the same though as any other five-second moment.

这与任何其他五秒钟的时刻是一样的。

If you think about a movie like Star Wars, the first Star Wars that came out that is a movie essentially about religion, which people don't always see, but it is true.

如果你想想像《星球大战》这样的电影，第一部上映的《星球大战》本质上是一部关于宗教的电影，人们并不总是看到这一点，但这是事实。

Matthew Dicks: There's a boy on a planet and he wants to go to space someday and fly a spaceship and use blasters to defeat the Empire.

马修·迪克斯：星球上有一个男孩，他希望有一天能去太空，驾驶宇宙飞船，使用爆能枪打败帝国。

And along the way, he meets a religious figure to Obi-Wan Kenobi, and he introduces him to a religion called The Force.

一路上，他遇到了一位宗教人物，向欧比旺·克诺比介绍了一种名为“原力”的宗教。

And when the final moment comes for Luke Skywalker to defeat the Empire, his vision of using technology, a spaceship and a blaster to destroy the Empire, all of that goes away, and he turns off his technology in his spaceship.

当卢克·天行者击败帝国的最后时刻到来时，他使用技术、宇宙飞船和爆能枪摧毁帝国的愿景，所有这些都消失了，他关闭了宇宙飞船中的技术。

Instead, he uses The Force to guide his weapon to defeat the enemy.

相反，他使用原力来引导他的武器击败敌人。

Matthew Dicks: And that is a story about a boy who once had no religion, and then some stuff happened and he had religion in the end.

马修·迪克斯：这是一个关于一个男孩的故事，他曾经没有宗教信仰，然后发生了一些事情，最终他有了宗教信仰。

And that's why a story like that resonates with us in a way that another story might not, because we all understand what it's like to not believe in something and then find belief in something.

这就是为什么这样的故事会引起我们的共鸣，而另一个故事可能不会，因为我们都明白不相信某事然后又相信某事是什么感觉。

Whether that is religious belief or I used to think cheeseburgers didn't taste good, and now I believe that they taste good.

不管是宗教信仰还是我以前觉得芝士汉堡不好吃，现在我相信它们味道不错。

Either way, we understand that process and we can connect with Luke Skywalker in a meaningful way.

无论哪种方式，我们都了解这个过程，并且我们可以以有意义的方式与卢克·天行者联系。

So every story essentially has those moments, including, "I don't like that cheeky smile."

所以每个故事本质上都有这样的时刻，包括“我不喜欢那种厚脸皮的微笑。”

Lenny: With this moment, what's also interesting is you talk about how knowing that moment of change also tells you how the story will end.

莱尼：在这一刻，同样有趣的是你谈论了如何知道那一刻的变化也告诉你故事将如何结束。

So as a storyteller, you'll know how it ends based on knowing what this moment is, which then also tells you how it's going to start roughly.

因此，作为一个讲故事的人，你会根据知道这一刻是什么而知道它如何结束，然后它也会告诉你它大致将如何开始。

Can you just talk about that realization?

您能谈谈这种认识吗？

Because, to me, every time I watch a movie now I'm like, wow, I know exactly how it's going to turn out just from the beginning.

因为，对我来说，现在每次看电影我都会想，哇，我从一开始就知道它会如何发展。

Matthew Dicks: So we start as storytellers at the end.

马修·迪克斯：所以我们最后从讲故事的人开始。

Well, we start at the end if we are telling true stories about ourselves or our companies or our products, things that we know.

好吧，如果我们讲述的是关于我们自己、我们的公司或我们的产品的真实故事，以及我们所知道的事情，那么我们从最后开始。

I'm also a fiction writer.

我也是一名小说作家。

So when I start my novels, that's much more self-discovery.

所以当我开始写小说时，更多的是自我发现。

I really don't know the end of it.

我真的不知道结局。

But in the storytelling that we're talking about, you have to know the end because you've lived the moment, and the end forms everything.

但在我们谈论的讲故事中，你必须知道结局，因为你已经经历过这一刻，而结局决定了一切。

So you know what you're going to say.

所以你知道你要说什么。

You found a moment worth speaking to, that five-second moment.

你发现了一个值得谈论的时刻，那就是五秒钟的时刻。

And then whatever that moment is, in my case, I discover that Eileen has more confidence than I realized and is ready to take a big step forward.

然后，无论那一刻是什么，就我而言，我发现艾琳比我意识到的更有信心，并准备好向前迈出一大步。

What's the opposite of me realizing Eileen has confidence and is ready to step forward?

当我意识到艾琳有信心并准备好向前迈出一步时，相反的是什么？

It is, Eileen does not have confidence, and I need to help her find that confidence.

是的，艾琳没有信心，我需要帮助她找到信心。

Matthew Dicks: So that's the opposites that will work in a story.

马修·迪克斯：这就是故事中的对立面。

Essentially, a story is about these two moments in time, a beginning and an end, and they're operating in opposition to each other.

从本质上讲，故事是关于时间上的两个时刻，即开始和结束，并且它们是相互对立的。

Sometimes more so than others, sometimes exactly an opposition.

有时比其他人更重要，有时完全是反对派。

But you're right.

但你是对的。

If you watch a movie and you'll pay attention to the first 10 to 15 minutes of a movie, you will ultimately know how that movie's going to end.

如果你看一部电影并且会注意电影的前 10 到 15 分钟，你最终就会知道这部电影将如何结束。

You'll see a character, you'll discover what that character needs or their flaw or their desire, and you know that that's going to be at the end.

你会看到一个角色，你会发现这个角色需要什么，或者他们的缺点或他们的愿望，你知道这将是最后的结果。

The easiest one is a romantic comedy.

最简单的是浪漫喜剧。

Two people are not in love at the beginning of the movie.

电影一开始两个人并没有相爱。

You know they're going to be in love at the end of the movie.

你知道他们会在电影结束时相爱。

Even knowing it doesn't mean the story's ruined.

即使知道这一点并不意味着故事就毁了。

We can get there in a very entertaining way.

我们可以以一种非常有趣的方式到达那里。

When Harry Met Sally, that movie, when it begins, Harry and Sally actually say they hate each other at the very beginning of the movie, "I Hate You, Harry," right?

当哈利遇到莎莉时，那部电影开始时，哈利和莎莉实际上在电影一开始就说他们讨厌对方，“我恨你，哈利”，对吗？

Matthew Dicks: I hate that man so much.

马修·迪克斯：我非常讨厌那个人。

We know they're going to end up together, and the journey is well worth the fact that we know what's going to happen at the end.

我们知道他们最终会在一起，而且这段旅程非常值得，因为我们知道最后会发生什么。

So it ruins a little bit of storytelling for people who think like me and go, "Oh, well, I know where this is going." But you have to do it in an entertaining way filled with all the other things we talk about in storytelling.

因此，对于那些像我一样思考并说“哦，好吧，我知道事情会怎样”的人来说，它破坏了一些讲故事的能力。但你必须以一种有趣的方式来完成它，充满我们在讲故事中谈论的所有其他事情。

But yeah, every story should be essentially a beginning and an end and opposition to each other, and you should start at the end, that guarantees that you have something important to say rather than what most people do, which is they simply report on their lives.

但是，是的，每个故事本质上都应该是一个开始和一个结束，以及彼此的对立，你应该从结尾开始，这保证你有一些重要的东西要说，而不是大多数人所做的，即他们只是报告自己的生活。

They just tell you stuff that happened over the course of time in some chronological way that ultimately doesn't lead to anything.

他们只是以某种时间顺序告诉你随着时间的推移发生的事情，最终不会导致任何结果。

You want to always be saying something of import.

你总是想说一些重要的话。

So we start at the end with that moment of import.

所以我们从最后的导入时刻开始。

Lenny: It's funny, as I was thinking of when Harry met Sally exactly as you were talking as an example, my wife wants to watch that movie basically every night.

莱尼：这很有趣，正如我所想的，当哈利遇到莎莉时，正如你所说的那样，我的妻子基本上每天晚上都想看那部电影。

It's like the one movie she could just watch a billion times.

这就像她可以看十亿遍的一部电影。

Matthew Dicks: Well, that's the power of story.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，这就是故事的力量。

I tell people this all the time.

我一直告诉人们这一点。

Why are we telling stories?

我们为什么要讲故事？

You've never asked to see a PowerPoint presentation a second time.

您从未要求第二次观看 PowerPoint 演示文稿。

You've never gone to bed and dreamt about a PowerPoint presentation.

您从来没有在睡觉时梦想过 PowerPoint 演示文稿。

You've never heard someone give a keynote and thought, I hope I get to watch that keynote again tomorrow.

你从来没有听过有人发表主题演讲并想，我希望明天我能再次观看那个主题演讲。

But movies, you'll watch a movie a hundred times, because it's a story, and our minds are wired to enjoy story over and over and over again.

但是电影，你会看一部电影一百遍，因为它是一个故事，而我们的头脑会一遍又一遍地享受故事。

You have a small child, right?

你有一个小孩，对吗？

Eventually you're going to be reading to that child when your baby's old enough and you're going to discover kids want to read the same book 50 times.

最终，当您的宝宝足够大时，您会为那个孩子读书，并且您会发现孩子们想读同一本书 50 遍。

They're really no different than adults except kid books are so small, you can read them endlessly.

他们实际上和成人没有什么不同，只是儿童读物太小，你可以没完没了地读。

A movie takes two hours, so you don't get to read it as often as you might want or watch it as often as you might want.

一部电影需要两个小时，因此您无法随心所欲地阅读或观看它。

But Harry Met Sally comes on and you're halfway through.

但《哈利遇到莎莉》开始播放，你就已经完成一半了。

You're probably in.

你可能已经进去了

Even though every scene you can probably do the dialogue.

即使每个场景你都可以进行对话。

We're wired for story.

我们为故事而生。

That's why it's so important.

这就是为什么它如此重要。

Lenny: Why is something changing so important?

莱尼：为什么改变如此重要？

Why is that so critical to a good story, someone having a change or transforming?

为什么某人发生改变或转变对于一个好故事如此重要？

Matthew Dicks: Well, I think that actual moment of transformation lends importance to the story and allows the audience to connect to it.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，我认为真正的转变时刻给故事带来了重要性，并让观众能够与它产生联系。

If I report it on my day to you, my day teaching in a classroom, I am unlikely to connect with you unless you are also a teacher and you experienced things similar to me.

如果我在课堂上教学的那一天向你报告，我不太可能与你建立联系，除非你也是一名老师并且经历了与我类似的事情。

My wife is a kindergarten teacher.

我的妻子是一名幼儿园老师。

I'm a fifth grade teacher.

我是一名五年级老师。

If both of us report on our day, oddly, we will not really connect very often.

奇怪的是，如果我们俩都在当天报道，我们就不会经常联系。

She is teaching them how to write the letter C, and I am teaching them how to use the standard algorithm in multiplication.

她正在教他们如何写字母 C，我正在教他们如何使用乘法中的标准算法。

They could not be further apart.

他们的距离不能再远了。

Matthew Dicks: So reporting on the moments that you have experienced in the day is not a way to connect to people.

马修·迪克斯：因此，报告你当天经历的时刻并不是与人建立联系的方式。

But when we talk about change, change has a great universal appeal.

但当我们谈论变革时，变革具有巨大的普遍吸引力。

So you might not be a teacher who's trying to teach someone to find confidence in their life, but you might be a person who once lacked confidence and then found confidence in the way Eileen did.

所以你可能不是一个试图教别人在生活中找到自信的老师，但你可能是一个曾经缺乏自信，然后像艾琳那样找到自信的人。

Or you might be a parent or the boss of someone who is trying to bring confidence to your child or your employee, your salesperson, whatever it is.

或者，您可能是父母或老板，试图给您的孩子、您的员工、您的销售人员（无论是什么）带来信心。

When we do change, when we're focused in on that change, we increase exponentially the universal appeal to the story and our ability to connect to an audience.

当我们确实做出改变时，当我们专注于这种改变时，我们对故事的普遍吸引力以及与观众建立联系的能力就会呈指数级增长。

Even though the content we're speaking about has nothing to do with them, the actual emotional appeal will cause people to connect to us.

尽管我们谈论的内容与他们无关，但实际的情感诉求会引起人们与我们的联系。

Lenny: Fascinating.

莱尼：令人着迷。

So building on that same thread of change, you also have this kind of checklist for what makes a good story.

因此，在相同的变化线索的基础上，您还可以制定一个关于如何构成好故事的清单。

What is a good story, and I think it's only a three point checklist.

什么是好故事，我认为这只是一个三点清单。

One is there's a change that happens.

一是发生了变化。

Can you talk about the other two?

你能谈谈另外两个吗？

I think there's only other two.

我认为只有另外两个。

Matthew Dicks: Well, the dinner test is probably one that you're thinking of.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，晚餐测试可能是你正在考虑的一个。

Matthew Dicks: So the dinner test is the idea that when you're telling a story in a formal way, if you're performing on a stage or delivering a keynote or even delivering a pitch to entrepreneurs or a sales pitch, essentially the story that you're telling should be very closely related to the story you would tell someone if you were having dinner.

马修·迪克斯：所以晚餐测试的想法是，当你以正式的方式讲述一个故事时，如果你在舞台上表演或发表主题演讲，甚至向企业家进行演讲或推销，本质上你讲的故事应该与你在吃饭时告诉别人的故事非常密切相关。

So there should be no performance art included within your story or within your talk.

因此，你的故事或演讲中不应该包含任何表演艺术。

So weird things that people do should not be done.

人们不应该做如此奇怪的事情。

Like opening a story with unattributed dialogue.

就像以未注明来源的对话开始一个故事。

So you're standing on stage and you open your story with, "Jim, it's time to come in for dinner." My wife said, that's just weird.

所以你站在舞台上，用“吉姆，该进来吃晚饭了”来开始你的故事。我妻子说，这很奇怪。

We don't talk like that as regular people, so you should not speak like that ever.

作为普通人，我们不会那样说话，所以你不应该那样说话。

In the history of the world, you should never speak like that.

在世界历史上，你不应该这样说话。

But people do it all the time.

但人们总是这样做。

Matthew Dicks: It's this weird appendage from childhood when bad writing teachers thought that this was a good idea, or you start with a sound, which is very popular in first grade.

马修·迪克斯：这是童年时期的一个奇怪的附属物，当时糟糕的写作老师认为这是一个好主意，或者你从一个声音开始，这在一年级非常流行。

You teach kids to start with sound, mostly because teachers are not writers, so they don't understand what writing actually is.

你教孩子们从声音开始，主要是因为老师不是作家，所以他们不明白写作到底是什么。

And so they open with stories, with things like, bang, the door opened.

所以他们以故事开始，比如“砰”的一声，门开了。

But if you and I were having dinner and you said, "Hey, how was your day, Matt?" And I said, "Well, let me tell you Lenny.

但如果你和我正在吃晚饭，你说：“嘿，你今天过得怎么样，马特？”我说：“好吧，让我告诉你莱尼。

Bang, the door opened." You would not have dinner with me again.

砰，门开了。”你不会再和我一起吃晚饭了。

Matthew Dicks: So you have to be thinking that this is a slightly elevated version of the dinner story.

马修·迪克斯：所以你一定会认为这是晚餐故事的稍微升级版。

Meaning you're probably not going to be interrupted in the middle of your story.

这意味着您的故事可能不会被打断。

And you want to have a little more shape to it, and you want to avoid some of the verbal detritus that tends to fill our lives.

你想要让它更有形状，并且你想要避免一些充斥着我们生活的言语碎片。

You don't want to be saying, you know, and like I said, all of that nonsense should get pushed to the side, but essentially people should feel like you're kind of speaking in a very natural way.

你不想说，你知道，就像我说的，所有这些废话都应该被推到一边，但本质上人们应该觉得你在以一种非常自然的方式说话。

So the dinner test is pretty important in that regard.

因此，晚餐测试在这方面非常重要。

Lenny: Awesome.

莱尼：太棒了。

Yeah, so the lesson there is when you're telling a story, make it sure that it's something that you could potentially tell at a dinner party.

是的，所以当你讲故事时，要确保它是你可以在晚宴上讲的东西。

Slightly elevated is the way you put it.

稍微高一点就是你所说的方式。

Lenny: I think the third point you make is that it has to be your story.

莱尼：我认为你提出的第三点是，这必须是你的故事。

You can't be telling a story on behalf of someone else.

你不能代表别人讲故事。

Maybe chat about that briefly?

也许可以简单聊聊这个？

Matthew Dicks: So if you're telling a story about someone else, essentially, you might as well be telling fiction.

马修·迪克斯：所以，如果你讲的是别人的故事，本质上，你也可能是在讲小说。

Because that person's not in the room, and to the audience, they don't really exist.

因为那个人不在房间里，对于观众来说，他们并不真正存在。

If they can't see them, that person is just another human being who supposedly lives somewhere in the world or once lived in the world.

如果他们看不到他们，那么那个人只是另一个据说生活在世界某个地方或曾经生活在这个世界上的人。

And because of that, you are almost unable to express any vulnerability in your story.

正因为如此，你几乎无法表达你的故事中的任何脆弱性。

You can't reveal anything about yourself.

你不能透露任何关于你自己的事情。

And one of the key parts of storytelling is to be vulnerable with your audience.

讲故事的关键部分之一就是在观众面前表现出脆弱的一面。

Meaning I'm going to say stuff in a meaningful way.

这意味着我将以一种有意义的方式说一些话。

I might say stuff that most people are unwilling to share in a public way, but I'm at least going to offer up a little bit of my heart and mind.

我可能会说一些大多数人不愿意公开分享的内容，但我至少会献出一点我的真心和想法。

If I offer up the heart and mind of someone else that doesn't really require any vulnerability.

如果我奉献出别人的心和思想，那真的不需要任何脆弱。

Matthew Dicks: The only vulnerability is I have to stand in front of people and talk, which I know is challenging for some people, but that doesn't mean anything to the audience.

马修·迪克斯：唯一的弱点是我必须站在人们面前讲话，我知道这对某些人来说是一个挑战，但这对观众来说没有任何意义。

We don't care if you're having a hard time presenting, if it's making you nervous.

我们不在乎您的演讲是否有困难，是否让您紧张。

That doesn't mean much to an audience.

这对观众来说意义不大。

What we really want is someone to open up their hearts and minds.

我们真正想要的是有人敞开心扉。

So stories have to be about you in some way.

所以故事必须在某种程度上是关于你的。

There's tricks where you can tell stories about other people by taking that story and centering on yourself.

有一些技巧可以让你通过以自己为中心的故事来讲述其他人的故事。

Matthew Dicks: One of the examples, I work with the children and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, and in the past, what they would do is they would just tell the story of the Holocaust survivor who has often at this point passed away, and it really does feel like fiction.

马修·迪克斯：其中一个例子，我与大屠杀幸存者的子孙一起工作，在过去，他们会做的就是讲述大屠杀幸存者的故事，而这个幸存者往往此时已经去世，这确实感觉像小说。

A long time ago in a place that wasn't this a terrible thing happened.

很久以前，在一个不是这里的地方发生了一件可怕的事情。

And there's a certain level of empathy and sympathy that you might feel.

你可能会感受到一定程度的同理心和同情心。

But what I teach them to do is to tell stories about themselves.

但我教他们做的是讲述自己的故事。

And then at some point in the story about themselves, they're going to talk about how the experience of their parent or grandparent during the Holocaust has informed or changed their own life too.

然后在关于他们自己的故事中的某个时刻，他们将谈论他们的父母或祖父母在大屠杀期间的经历如何影响或改变了他们自己的生活。

So they get to dip into some history, but that history is relevant to the storyteller.

所以他们可以深入了解一些历史，但这些历史与讲故事的人相关。

So it's no longer history.

所以这已经不再是历史了。

It's now something changed in me because something terrible happened to my parent or grandparent.

现在我身上发生了一些变化，因为我的父母或祖父母发生了一些可怕的事情。

Lenny: Just as a tangent, you also have this funny, useful checklist for how to tell vacation stories?

莱尼：顺便说一句，你还有这个有趣、有用的清单来指导如何讲述假期故事？

Matthew Dicks: Well, first try not to, right?

马修·迪克斯：嗯，首先尽量不要这样做，对吧？

Lenny: I think that's step one.

莱尼：我认为这是第一步。

Do not tell vacation stories.

不要讲假期故事。

Matthew Dicks: Most vacation stories are just simply a recounting of your vacation at the expense of another person.

马修·迪克斯：大多数假期故事只是以牺牲另一个人为代价来叙述你的假期。

So unless something happened on that vacation where you experienced one of these five second fundamental moments of change, nobody cares about your vacation.

因此，除非在假期中发生了一些事情，让您经历了这五秒钟的基本变化时刻之一，否则没有人关心您的假期。

And if something did happen, only be talking about the moment when it happened.

如果确实发生了某件事，也只谈论它发生的那一刻。

So if I had a moment of change that took place on a Thursday night at dinner, that story is now going to take place on the Thursday night at dinner, and it's irrelevant that I'm in Aruba.

因此，如果我在周四晚上的晚餐时发生了一个改变的时刻，那么这个故事现在将在周四晚上的晚餐时发生，而我在阿鲁巴岛并不重要。

Matthew Dicks: The fact that I am on vacation is almost completely irrelevant to the story, other than I may want to offer my location.

马修·迪克斯：我正在度假这一事实几乎与故事完全无关，除了我可能想提供我的位置之外。

But I'm not going to talk about the beach the day before or the scuba diving or the plane.

但我不会谈论前一天的海滩、水肺潜水或飞机。

All of that goes away.

所有这些都会消失。

We're telling moments in our lives, and it doesn't matter where they happen.

我们正在讲述生活中的时刻，而它们发生在哪里并不重要。

If your location is paramount to your story because you want people to know you were in Aruba, then you have to understand, no one actually cares that you were in Aruba and you're just a terrible person for trying to dump that on someone and use up their time so you can relive your vacation and perhaps humble brag about how much fun you had.

如果你的位置对你的故事至关重要，因为你想让人们知道你在阿鲁巴岛，那么你必须明白，没有人真正关心你在阿鲁巴岛，而你只是一个糟糕的人，试图将其倾倒在某人身上并占用他们的时间，这样你就可以重温你的假期，也许还谦虚地吹嘘你有多么有趣。

Lenny: This will be a good segment for people to send their friends if they want to tell them their vacation stories.

Lenny：如果人们想向朋友讲述他们的假期故事，这将是一个很好的片段。

And here's a tip for how to do this better.

这里有一个关于如何更好地做到这一点的提示。

Lenny: And just understand why it needs to be on a Thursday in that dinner, is the advice there?

莱尼：明白为什么晚餐需要在星期四进行，有建议吗？

Keep it very focused and small, unless there's some really essential reason to share the context around the dinner.

保持重点突出、规模较小，除非有一些真正重要的理由需要分享晚餐的背景。

Matthew Dicks: Yeah, exactly.

马修·迪克斯：是的，完全正确。

The shortest version of every story is the best version of every story.

每个故事的最短版本就是每个故事的最佳版本。

Starting as close to the end of a story is always the best place to begin.

从接近故事结尾的地方开始总是最好的起点。

So if I had a moment of realization during dessert in a restaurant in Aruba, I may never tell them I'm in Aruba.

因此，如果我在阿鲁巴岛一家餐厅吃甜点时有一个恍然大悟的时刻，我可能永远不会告诉他们我在阿鲁巴岛。

I might start my story with, the dessert hits the table, and my wife says something that causes me to begin thinking, and that would be the beginning of the story.

我的故事可能会这样开始：甜点上桌，我妻子说了一些让我开始思考的话，这就是故事的开始。

The fact that I'm on an island in the Caribbean may never come up in the entire story because it doesn't turn out to be relevant to the story.

我在加勒比海的一个岛上的事实可能永远不会出现在整个故事中，因为它与故事无关。

Lenny: There's a lesson that another guest shared, West Cow about...

Lenny：另一位客人 West Cow 分享了一个教训……

She calls it, When The Bear Starts Eating Your Tent, or something like that.

她称之为“当熊开始吃你的帐篷时”，或者类似的名字。

Jump to when the bear is eating your tent.

跳到熊吃掉你的帐篷的时候。

Don't do this whole introduction to why or how you got to this tent.

不要完全介绍你为什么或如何到达这个帐篷。

It's just like the bear is eating our tent.

就像熊正在吃我们的帐篷一样。

That's where the story should start.

这就是故事应该开始的地方。

Matthew Dicks: Yes, Kurt Vonnegut said that.

马修·迪克斯：是的，库尔特·冯内古特说过。

Kurt Vonnegut said, "Start as close to the end as possible." He was talking about short stories written on the page, but it is a true notion in oral storytelling too.

库尔特·冯内古特说：“尽可能从接近结束的地方开始。”他说的是写在纸上的短篇故事，但这也是口头讲故事中的一个真实概念。

And it is, of all the things I help people with their stories, the most frequent suggestion that I make for revision is you've started your story in the wrong place.

在我帮助人们讲述故事的所有事情中，我最常提出的修改建议是你在错误的地方开始你的故事。

Lenny: I want to shift to business context advice.

莱尼：我想转向商业环境建议。

But before we do that, there's another really important element of storytelling, which is having stakes and having important stakes.

但在此之前，讲故事还有另一个非常重要的元素，那就是拥有利害关系，并且拥有重要的利害关系。

So could you just talk about what is a stake and why is it important to have stakes?

那么您能谈谈什么是股份以及为什么拥有股份很重要吗？

And then just what are examples of adding stakes to your story to make them more encouraging?

那么，有哪些例子可以为你的故事添加赌注，让故事更加鼓舞人心呢？

Matthew Dicks: Sure.

马修·迪克斯：当然。

So stakes are essentially what your audience should be worried about, what they should be wanting for you, what they should be concerned about, what they should be wondering about.

因此，利益本质上是你的受众应该担心什么，他们应该对你有什么期望，他们应该关心什么，他们应该想知道什么。

If your audience isn't wondering what you're about to say, they're no longer listening to you.

如果你的听众不知道你要说什么，他们就不再听你说话。

And you have to internalize that in a deep and fundamental way.

你必须以深刻而根本的方式将其内化。

When I work with people in business, they are constantly under this misconception that people want to hear what they have to say.

当我与商界人士一起工作时，他们总是存在这样的误解：人们想听听他们要说的话。

Some vice president of marketing thinks that because they're a vice president of marketing and everyone is sitting in a chair and looking at them, that they automatically have that audience's attention.

一些营销副总裁认为，因为他们是营销副总裁，每个人都坐在椅子上看着他们，所以他们自动吸引了观众的注意力。

I assume all the time, 100% of the time, that no one wants to hear anything I have to say.

我一直认为，100% 的时候，没有人愿意听我说的任何话。

And so I am relentless in my attempt to get the audience to be constantly wondering what the next sentence is.

因此，我不断地尝试让观众不断地想知道下一句话是什么。

Matthew Dicks: And stakes are a big part of that.

马修·迪克斯：赌注是其中的重要组成部分。

Stakes are, I wonder what's going to happen next.

赌注是，我想知道接下来会发生什么。

I'm worried about this guy.

我很担心这个人。

Will he get what he wants?

他会得到他想要的吗？

Will he get his comeuppance?

他会得到应有的报应吗？

Because he seems like a kind of a jerk in this story.

因为他在这个故事中看起来像是一个混蛋。

All of those things are stakes.

所有这些都是赌注。

What is at stake for the storyteller, the company, the product, whatever it is, and therefore what the audience is worried about as well.

对于讲故事的人、公司、产品，无论是什么，都面临着什么危险，因此观众也担心什么。

Matthew Dicks: It's why Star Wars opens with a big spaceship shooting at a small spaceship.

马修·迪克斯：这就是为什么《星球大战》以一艘大宇宙飞船向一艘小宇宙飞船开火的原因。

We don't even know who's on it yet, but we're already on the small spaceship side.

我们甚至还不知道谁在上面，但我们已经在小型宇宙飞船一侧了。

We're already worried that a small spaceship is being shot at by a big spaceship, right?

我们已经担心一艘小飞船被一艘大飞船射击了，对吧？

That's why stories start this way.

这就是故事以这种方式开始的原因。

Alfred Hitchcock has a movie where it opens with a police officer is chasing a man across a roof.

阿尔弗雷德·希区柯克有一部电影，开头是一名警察在屋顶上追赶一名男子。

We don't know who to root for, but something is at stake here.

我们不知道该支持谁，但有些事情正处于危险之中。

And now we're wondering what's going to happen next.

现在我们想知道接下来会发生什么。

We have to do the same thing with our ordinary true life everyday stories.

我们必须对日常生活中平凡的真实故事做同样的事情。

We have to put stakes into stories.

我们必须在故事中下注。

Lenny: There's something that you teach around surprise and the power of surprise as a part of stakes.

莱尼：你教授的一些东西是围绕惊喜和惊喜的力量作为赌注的一部分。

I forget exactly what that is, but does that ring a bell?

我完全忘记了那是什么，但这听起来像吗？

Matthew Dicks: Well, I'll separate them really.

马修·迪克斯：好吧，我真的会把他们分开。

So with stakes, there's lots of ways to insert stakes.

因此，对于木桩来说，插入木桩的方法有很多种。

I always say you should have, what I call an elephant at the beginning of the story, which is actually a big spaceship shooting at a little spaceship or a police officer chasing a guy across a roof.

我总是说你应该有，我在故事开头所说的大象，实际上是一艘大宇宙飞船向一艘小宇宙飞船射击，或者是一名警察在屋顶上追赶一个人。

We have to immediately know that something is at stakes.

我们必须立即知道某些事情处于危险之中。

We have to be worried about something.

我们必须担心一些事情。

In my little Eileen story that I told you, I said, I'm teaching math and I've got this student and I'm worried about her, because I want to call her to the board, but I know she might lack some confidence.

在我告诉你的艾琳小故事中，我说，我正在教数学，我有一个学生，我很担心她，因为我想叫她加入董事会，但我知道她可能缺乏一些信心。

Right away, I have to make it clear what kind of story we're at.

我必须马上弄清楚我们正在讲一个什么样的故事。

In a movie, you get a trailer.

在电影中，您会看到预告片。

You don't often go to a movie and not have any awareness about what's about to happen.

当你去看电影时，你不会经常对即将发生的事情一无所知。

But when you open your mouth to begin telling a story, nobody knows what you're going to say.

但当你张开嘴开始讲故事时，没有人知道你要说什么。

You need to land something immediately that...

你需要立即降落一些东西......

Matthew Dicks: Nobody knows what you're going to say.

马修·迪克斯：没有人知道你要说什么。

You need to land something immediately that causes an audience to go, "Oh, okay, well what's going to happen here?" So that's an elephant.

你需要立即让观众产生一些想法，“哦，好吧，那么这里会发生什么？”所以那是一头大象。

That's like plant some big thing in the beginning of a story.

这就像在故事的开头植入一些大东西一样。

It doesn't actually have to be what the story's about either.

实际上也不一定是故事的内容。

Sometimes it takes a little time to get to what the story's about, but you plant something there to at least get the audience to be worried, and then you can use some other tricks.

有时需要一点时间才能了解故事的内容，但你在那里植入一些东西至少可以让观众感到担心，然后你可以使用其他一些技巧。

I call something called a backpack, which is, you tell the audience what your plan is before you carry out your plan so that they sort of have your hopes and dreams packed up with them as well.

我把这种东西称为“背包”，也就是说，你在执行你的计划之前告诉观众你的计划是什么，这样他们就可以把你的希望和梦想也装上。

If you watch an Ocean's 11 movie, you know what the plan is before they go into the casino.

如果你看过《十一罗汉》电影，你就会在他们进入赌场之前就知道他们的计划是什么。

So as the plan goes awry, you can go, "Oh no," because you know what the plan is.

因此，当计划出现问题时，您可以说“哦，不”，因为您知道计划是什么。

Matthew Dicks: If you didn't know what the plan was, you would not be able to go, "Oh no." So that's loading your audience with your hopes and dreams so that they can feel those stakes.

马修·迪克斯：如果你不知道计划是什么，你就无法说“哦，不。”所以这会让你的观众充满你的希望和梦想，这样他们就能感受到这些赌注。

They can actually be hoping for you as well.

他们实际上也可能对你抱有希望。

There's things like breadcrumbs where you offer a little bit of what's going on, but not the complete idea, sort of drop a hint.

有些东西就像面包屑一样，你可以提供一些正在发生的事情，但不是完整的想法，有点暗示。

The classic one is sort of the gun.

最经典的就是枪。

There's a gun in the room, and there's a gun in the room, and it seems like it's not going to be relevant, but if you have a gun in the room, it's going to eventually go off.

房间里有一把枪，房间里有一把枪，看起来似乎无关紧要，但如果你房间里有一把枪，它最终会爆炸。

There's something going on there.

那里发生了一些事情。

That's like a bread crumb.

这就像面包屑一样。

Eventually we're going to get to that gun.

最终我们会找到那把枪。

Don't worry, it's going to happen.

别担心，它会发生。

There's hourglasses, which is when you get to the moment where everyone is about to discover what's going to happen.

有一个沙漏，就是当你到达每个人都将要发现将要发生什么的时刻时。

That's the moment to slow time down.

那是让时间慢下来的时刻。

Matthew Dicks: You load your story with details because suddenly you know have the audience on the edge of their seat, and you want to leave them on the edge of their seat as long as possible.

马修·迪克斯：你在故事中加入细节，因为你突然知道观众已经坐立不安，并且你想让他们尽可能长时间地保持坐立不安。

When I know my audience wants to hear the next sentence, that is when I prolong the arrival of the next sentence by I say turning over an hourglass and letting the sand run for a while, and making them wait for it.

当我知道我的听众想听下一句话时，我就会通过说翻转沙漏，让沙子流一会儿，让他们等待来延长下一句话的到来。

There's crystal balls where you can predict a future.

有水晶球可以预测未来。

You don't have to predict an accurate future.

你不必预测准确的未来。

You can just predict any future.

你可以预测任何未来。

So I could have said something in the Eileen story like, "If I get this wrong, Eileen is going to begin to cry.

所以我可以在艾琳的故事中说这样的话：“如果我弄错了，艾琳就会开始哭泣。

She's going to cry in front of 22 kids, 22 kids who for the rest of the year will continue to stare at this girl, and remember the moment she cried." That's a crystal ball.

她会在 22 个孩子面前哭泣，这 22 个孩子在今年剩下的时间里将继续盯着这个女孩，并记住她哭泣的那一刻。”那是一个水晶球。

Matthew Dicks: That's me predicting a terrible future.

马修·迪克斯：这就是我对可怕未来的预测。

Because I put that terrible future in the audience's mind, now they're worried.

因为我把那个可怕的未来放在观众的脑海里，现在他们很担心。

So that is a stake.

所以这是一个赌注。

I have planted a false stake, a false future, but they're going to be worried about it because it's also a realistic future.

我种下了一个虚假的赌注，一个虚假的未来，但他们会担心它，因为这也是一个现实的未来。

So all of those things are used to continue to get the audience to wonder what's going to happen next, which is a little different than surprise.

所以所有这些东西都是用来继续让观众想知道接下来会发生什么，这与惊喜有点不同。

Surprise is just that beautiful, delightful, amazing moment where the audience didn't see something coming, and then it was almost like it was inevitable.

惊喜就是那种美丽、令人愉快、令人惊奇的时刻，观众没有看到有什么事情即将发生，然后就好像这是不可避免的。

Surprise happens, and they understand why it happened.

惊喜发生了，他们明白为什么会发生。

I think it's the best thing you can ever offer an audience, is a moment of surprise.

我认为这是你能为观众提供的最好的东西，就是一个惊喜的时刻。

And every story has a surprise, at least one.

每个故事都有一个惊喜，至少一个。

Because whenever we suddenly realize something for the first time, I hate the word suddenly, but what happens is we used to not think something, and then we think a new thing, and that's often a surprise for us if we make it a surprise for the audience too, that's a delightful thing.

因为每当我们第一次突然意识到某件事时，我讨厌突然这个词，但发生的情况是我们过去不去思考某件事，然后我们想到了一个新的事情，如果我们也让观众也感到惊讶，那对我们来说往往是一个惊喜，这是一件令人愉快的事情。

So surprise is so powerful, and wonderful, and always ruined by storytellers.

惊喜是如此强大、美妙，却总是被讲故事的人毁掉。

Lenny: I was just listening to an interview with, I think his name is David Mamet, and he made this point that endings of books and movies always has to be both inevitable, and also complete surprise.

莱尼：我刚刚听了一次采访，我想他的名字是大卫·马梅特，他指出书籍和电影的结局总是既不可避免又完全令人惊讶。

Matthew Dicks: Yes, both of those things.

马修·迪克斯：是的，这两件事。

So inevitable means there has to be enough information placed earlier in the story so that when the surprise happens, the audience goes, "Yes." But also you have to be clever enough to plant that information in such a way that the audience doesn't see the surprise coming.

如此不可避免意味着必须在故事的前面放置足够的信息，以便当惊喜发生时，观众会说“是的”。但你也必须足够聪明，以一种让观众看不到即将到来的惊喜的方式植入这些信息。

You build information into the audience's mind that will allow the surprise to land in an inevitable and yet surprising way.

你将信息植入观众的脑海中，让惊喜以一种不可避免但又令人惊讶的方式降临。

That is the best surprise you can offer someone.

这是你能给别人的最好的惊喜。

Matthew Dicks: Yes, well, there's lots of tricks to do that as well, but it takes some time.

马修·迪克斯：是的，也有很多技巧可以做到这一点，但这需要一些时间。

But essentially what you end up doing is, you're hiding the information that they need to know in a multitude of ways so that when it lands, they go, "Oh my gosh, ABCD." They don't connect it until the surprise hits, and then they go, "Of course, ABCD." So you place ABCD in a story, but you don't place it in such a way that they can connect the dots until you want them to connect the dots.

但本质上你最终要做的是，你以多种方式隐藏了他们需要知道的信息，这样当它落地时，他们就会说，“哦，天哪，ABCD。”直到惊喜到来时他们才会联系起来，然后他们说：“当然，ABCD。”所以你把ABCD放在一个故事里，但你不会把它放在这样的位置，让他们可以把这些点连接起来，直到你想让他们把这些点连接起来。

Lenny: I feel that's a whole other hour of podcast conversation to figure that out.

莱尼：我觉得这还需要一个小时的播客对话才能弄清楚。

Matthew Dicks: That's like ninja level next level storytelling, which is very teachable.

马修·迪克斯：这就像忍者级别的下一个级别的故事讲述，这是非常可教的。

Everything I say is very, very teachable and doable by anybody, but yes, it's a trickier thing to accomplish.

我所说的一切对于任何人来说都是非常非常可教和可行的，但是，是的，这是一件更棘手的事情。

Lenny: Okay, that'll be for a second podcast episode.

莱尼：好的，这将是第二集播客。

Just to summarize, you shared I think five ways add stakes.

总而言之，您分享了我认为增加赌注的五种方法。

Just to summarize; one is crystal ball.

只是总结一下；一是水晶球。

You basically predict the bad thing that'll happen if you don't do this thing.

你基本上可以预测如果你不做这件事将会发生什么坏事。

Hourglass, which is when something is about to happen slow time down.

沙漏，就是当某事即将发生时，时间会变慢。

I think of Pulp Fiction and Tarantino in this often of just like, you know some violence is about to happen, and they go next door, and like, "Let's just eat a cheeseburger," instead for a while.

我经常想到《低俗小说》和塔伦蒂诺，就像，你知道一些暴力即将发生，他们走到隔壁，然后说，“让我们吃一个芝士汉堡吧”，而不是一会儿。

And then this backpack idea of they know exactly what you're trying to do, and it's on you and the entire movie.

然后这个背包的想法是他们确切地知道你想要做什么，这取决于你和整部电影。

Breadcrumbs where you give them a little bit of information along the way.

面包屑，您可以在此过程中向他们提供一些信息。

I think maybe that's it.

我想也许就是这样。

Maybe there's one more.

也许还有一个。

Matthew Dicks: And then the elephant at the beginning.

马修·迪克斯：然后是一开始的大象。

Lenny: Oh, the elephant, just like the big ol', here's the steak.

莱尼：哦，大象，就像大大象一样，这是牛排。

I wish-

我希望——

Lenny: I heard some advice in either your book, a different book about adding stakes is just drop a dead body.

莱尼：我在你的书中听到了一些建议，另一本关于增加赌注的书就是扔一具尸体。

Every new dead body is additional stakes that are added to the story.

每一个新的尸体都是故事中添加的额外赌注。

I don't know how often people can do that in random stories.

我不知道人们在随机故事中多久能做到这一点。

Matthew Dicks: But what you can take from that is, so often people load the front end of a story with all of the stakes because they're worried that the audience will not pay attention to them.

马修·迪克斯：但你可以从中得到的是，人们常常在故事的前端加载所有的赌注，因为他们担心观众不会注意到他们。

So they think I'm going to throw everything right in front, and that'll hold an audience for the rest of the story, and that's a mistake.

所以他们认为我会把所有东西都放在前面，这样就能吸引观众看故事的其余部分，但这是一个错误。

What we want is stakes continually to build throughout a story.

我们想要的是在整个故事中不断建立赌注。

So dropping a dead body really means, drop a new steak, don't load it all, don't front load it, give us something to wonder about, and then gauge when we need the next thing to wonder about, and spread out those stakes.

因此，放下一具尸体实际上意味着，放下一块新牛排，不要将其全部装载，不要预先装载它，给我们一些值得思考的东西，然后衡量我们何时需要下一个值得思考的东西，并分散这些赌注。

We need most of the stakes to occur within the first half of a story.

我们需要大部分的赌注发生在故事的前半部分。

Ideally, the second half of the story is now the rollercoaster to the end.

理想情况下，故事的后半部分现在就像过山车一样一直持续到最后。

So we might drop one in there at an appropriate time, or just through plot.

所以我们可能会在适当的时候，或者只是通过情节，把一个放进去。

Sometimes they just happen to need to be in a place.

有时他们只是碰巧需要在一个地方。

But so often I hear people front load stakes because they're worried about audience attention.

但我经常听到人们提前下注，因为他们担心观众的注意力。

Lenny: Just to give people something concrete to think about when they're thinking about this area.

莱尼：只是为了让人们在思考这个领域时有一些具体的思考。

Is there a story of yours that's online that we can point people to see an example of really good stakes in action?

您在网上是否有一个故事可以让我们向人们展示真正好的赌注行动的例子？

Matthew Dicks: So the one that I reference in my book, which you can go watch online is, Charity Thief.

马修·迪克斯：所以我在我的书中提到的那本书是《慈善小偷》，你可以在网上观看。

It needs a lot of stakes because two thirds of the story nothing really happens.

它需要很多赌注，因为故事的三分之二没有真正发生。

Two thirds of the story is explaining how I end up on a porch.

故事的三分之二都在解释我是如何来到门廊的。

So that's not super entertaining unless I build in lots of stakes along the way.

因此，除非我一路上投入大量赌注，否则这并不是超级有趣。

I'm not inventing anything, I'm just presenting the actual events in a way that makes you wonder what's going to happen next.

我没有发明任何东西，我只是以一种让你想知道接下来会发生什么的方式呈现实际事件。

So there's an elephant at the beginning of that story, which is actually not what the story's about because I say the elephant can change colors along the way, but I give you something to wonder about along the way.

所以故事的开头有一头大象，这实际上不是故事的主题，因为我说大象可以一路改变颜色，但我一路上给了你一些值得好奇的东西。

I know I use a backpack, and I use a breadcrumb, and an hourglass, and a crystal ball.

我知道我使用背包、面包屑、沙漏和水晶球。

I do it all in that story mostly because it's not super entertaining.

我在那个故事中这么做主要是因为它不是很有趣。

Matthew Dicks: Some stories you don't have to worry so much about.

马修·迪克斯：有些故事你不必太担心。

I perform as a stripper in the break room of a McDonald's restaurant when I'm 19 years old for a bachelorette party.

19 岁时，我在麦当劳餐厅的休息室里为单身派对表演脱衣舞娘。

There are stakes in that story, but I don't need to put any of them in because everybody wants to know what's going to happen already.

这个故事里有一些利害关系，但我不需要把它们放进去，因为每个人都想知道将会发生什么。

Sometimes you just have a story that the stakes are already pre-built because the ridiculousness of the moment.

有时你只是有一个故事，因为当时的荒谬，赌注已经预先建立了。

But most of our stories are not like that.

但我们大多数的故事并不是这样的。

Most of them are far more benign, and we have to jack up the stakes by using some tricks to get people to the point we want them to be in.

他们中的大多数都是温和的，我们必须通过使用一些技巧来加大赌注，让人们达到我们希望他们进入的地步。

Lenny: That stripper story I've also watched, and I'll point to it, and I love, it's connected to another piece of advice you always shared.

莱尼：那个脱衣舞娘的故事我也看过，我会指出它，我喜欢它，它与你经常分享的另一条建议有关。

People just say yes to stuff, at the power of yes.

人们只是凭借“是”的力量对事物说“是”。

I don't want to get into it yet, I want to come back to that.

我还不想深究，我想回到这个话题。

Lenny: We'll leave that breadcrumb but I love that point.

莱尼：我们会留下面包屑，但我喜欢这一点。

Okay, so let's transition to helping people in business learn all these skills, and translate them to becoming better in their work.

好吧，让我们转向帮助商界人士学习所有这些技能，并将它们转化为在工作中变得更好。

And maybe actually to add some stakes, what benefits do people get/what problems do they run into if they aren't great at storytelling versus if they learn the skill, and can implement it at work?

也许实际上要增加一些赌注，如果人们不擅长讲故事，而如果他们学习了这项技能并能够在工作中运用它，他们会得到什么好处/会遇到什么问题？

What happens, what good things come out of that?

会发生什么，会带来什么好处？

Matthew Dicks: Well, if you don't tell stories as part of your business, whether you're looking for investment, or speaking to your people, or speaking to customers, or clients, anything, if you're not telling stories, the good news is, you're just like everybody else.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，如果你不讲故事作为你业务的一部分，无论你是在寻找投资，还是与你的员工交谈，或者与顾客或客户交谈，无论什么，如果你不讲故事，好消息是，你就像其他人一样。

The bad news is, you're mediocre just like everybody else.

坏消息是，你和其他人一样平庸。

You're in a lane that everyone else is in, which means that you're going to be forgettable.

你和其他人都在一条车道上，这意味着你会被遗忘。

I often say most communication in business is round white and flavorless intentionally so because a lot of people are afraid to stand out.

我经常说，商业中的大多数沟通都是故意的圆白无味，因为很多人都害怕脱颖而出。

When I try to get people to tell stories, everyone loves the word storytelling in business.

当我试图让人们讲故事时，每个人都喜欢商业中讲故事这个词。

It's a huge buzzword.

这是一个巨大的流行词。

They love to think of themselves as storytellers, but when they come to me, they don't really want to be storytellers because to be a storyteller means you have to separate yourself from the herd, and in their mind that risks them getting picked off, getting picked off by some predator.

他们喜欢认为自己是讲故事的人，但当他们来找我时，他们并不是真的想成为讲故事的人，因为成为讲故事的人意味着你必须将自己与群体分开，在他们看来，这有可能让他们被掠夺者抓住。

Matthew Dicks: But the alternative is, you're in the herd, which means you're forgettable.

马修·迪克斯：但另一种选择是，你在人群中，这意味着你会被遗忘。

How many times have you gone to a conference, listened to someone speak, and by the time you're pulling into the driveway you really can't remember anything that they said?

有多少次你去参加一个会议，听某人讲话，当你把车开进车道时，你真的不记得他们说了什么？

My wife and I actually attended an educational conference recently.

我和我的妻子最近参加了一个教育会议。

She's a teacher, I'm a teacher.

她是老师，我也是老师。

There was a bunch of speakers.

有一群发言者。

The first person came out with his childhood lunchbox, put it on a table, and told a story about how his parents had nothing while he was growing up.

第一个人拿出小时候的饭盒，放在桌子上，讲述了自己成长过程中父母一无所有的故事。

And yet they somehow kept him in new shoes, and a new backpack every year, and sent him to school with a lunch every day, and how much it meant to him, and how as an educator today he thinks about every single kid in his class like he was, a kid who had nothing except for all of his parents' hopes and dreams.

然而，他们每年都以某种方式让他穿上新鞋，背上新背包，每天送他去学校吃午餐，这对他来说意味着什么，以及作为一名今天的教育者，他如何看待班上的每个孩子，就像他一样，一个除了父母所有的希望和梦想之外一无所有的孩子。

Matthew Dicks: I'll never forget that story.

马修·迪克斯：我永远不会忘记那个故事。

It was a story.

这是一个故事。

It was a story of vulnerability, and humor and meaning.

这是一个关于脆弱、幽默和意义的故事。

There was another person who spoke, a sort of executive we'll say, and he did a great job in terms of being fluent, and presenting ideas, and speaking well, and speaking confidently.

还有另一个人发言，我们可以说他是一位高管，他在流利、提出想法、讲得好、自信方面做得很好。

And 15 minutes after the conference I said to my wife who is a teacher and understands storytelling because we do it together.

会议结束 15 分钟后，我对我的妻子说，她是一名教师，了解讲故事，因为我们一起讲故事。

Matthew Dicks: I said, "What'd you think?" She said, "Well, I'm never going to forget that guy with the lunchbox." I said, "I will not either." I said, "What'd you think about the other guy?" And she goes, "He was great." I said, "So what did he say?" Five teen minutes after, and she went, "I actually can't tell you a single thing he said." This is a woman who's a teacher, and invested in storytelling and communication.

马修·迪克斯：我说，“你觉得怎么样？”她说：“好吧，我永远不会忘记那个拿着午餐盒的人。”我说：“我也不会。”我说：“你觉得另一个人怎么样？”她说：“他很棒。”我说：“那他说什么了？”五分钟后，她说道：“实际上我无法告诉你他说的任何事情。”这是一位女性教师，致力于讲故事和沟通。

Her impression was, he was fluent, he was amusing, he said some numbers, he said some things that seemed to mean something.

她的印象是，他很流利，他很有趣，他说了一些数字，他说了一些似乎有意义的事情。

But it was all forgotten because that's what happens if we don't speak in story.

但这一切都被遗忘了，因为如果我们不在故事中说话，就会发生这种情况。

Our minds are not designed to remember a pie chart, or facts, or statistics, or platitudes, or ideas that are not attached to imagery.

我们的大脑并不是为了记住饼图、事实、统计数据、陈词滥调或与图像无关的想法而设计的。

So the risk you take if you're not telling stories is that you will be forgotten, 100% you will be forgotten.

所以，如果你不讲故事，你所冒的风险就是你会被遗忘，100%你会被遗忘。

Lenny: When people hear this, they may think, "Oh man, there's this guy at work, and he's always telling stories." And we're like, "Shut up." Just tell me what we need to do to make it a little more real of just what does storytelling look like where it's not annoying.

莱尼：当人们听到这个时，他们可能会想，“天哪，这个人在工作，而且他总是在讲故事。”我们就像，“闭嘴。”只要告诉我我们需要做什么，才能让讲故事变得更真实、不那么烦人。

It's not like, "Okay, everyone, gather around.

这并不是说，“好吧，大家聚集在一起。

Let me tell you the story of our vision." What are some simpler ways, and maybe non-annoying ways to think about what storytelling looks like in the workplace that's not just like a public speaking like, "Hey, everyone, I'm going to give you."

让我告诉你我们的愿景的故事。”有哪些更简单、或许不烦人的方法来思考在工作场所讲故事是什么样子，而不仅仅是公开演讲，比如“嘿，大家，我要给你们讲故事。”

Matthew Dicks: Let me give a couple of examples.

马修·迪克斯：让我举几个例子。

I have a storytelling book coming out next year on business.

我有一本讲故事的书将于明年出版。

So there's a couple of heroes in that story.

所以这个故事中有几个英雄。

One of them is named Boris.

His name's Boris Levin, he is a factory owner here in Connecticut.

他的名字叫鲍里斯·莱文（Boris Levin），是康涅狄格州的一家工厂老板。

He's the one who convinced me I could start working with businesses.

他是让我相信我可以开始与企业合作的人。

I thought it was just a storyteller who spoke about himself on a stage.

我以为只是一个讲故事的人在舞台上讲述自己。

Boris one day saw me for some fundraiser and said, "Listen, I want you to come and help me." I said, "I can't do that.

有一天，鲍里斯在一场筹款活动中看到我，他说：“听着，我希望你能来帮助我。”我说：“我不能那样做。

I just tell.

我只是告诉。

I'm using stories about myself." He said, "No, no, you can help me." And it turns out he was totally right.

I'm using stories about myself." He said, "No, no, you can help me."事实证明他是完全正确的。

So Boris has done it the right way.

所以鲍里斯的做法是正确的。

Boris has decided to become a storyteller who will then translate his stories into his business.

鲍里斯决定成为一名讲故事的人，然后将他的故事转化为他的生意。

Matthew Dicks: So a great example was, one of Boris's early stories, he came to me, and he said, "My son was at bat in the Little League Championship game.

马修·迪克斯：一个很好的例子是，鲍里斯的早期故事之一，他来找我，他说，“我的儿子在少年棒球联盟冠军赛中击球。

The bases were loaded, if my son got a hit, the team was going to win the championship.

垒垒满了，如果我儿子安打，球队就会赢得冠军。

And if my son struck out, the team would lose the championship." It's a three and two count.

如果我儿子三振，球队就会失去冠军。” It's a three and two count.

It is like the ultimate baseball moment, and his son strikes out.

这就像棒球的终极时刻，他的儿子三振出局。

He watches his son drag that bat back to the dugout.

他看着儿子把球棒拖回休息室。

He's devastated.

他很伤心。

His son's devastated and Boris is devastated.

So he is trying to collect himself so he can figure out the right thing to say to a boy who's just lost the championship for his team.

所以他正在努力让自己平静下来，以便找到对一个刚刚为球队失去冠军的男孩说正确的话。

By the time he makes it onto the other side of the field to catch up with his son, he sees his son running up a hill with his friends, and they're already laughing.

当他跑到田野的另一边追上他的儿子时，他看到儿子和他的朋友们一起跑上山，他们已经大笑起来。

Matthew Dicks: They're heading to the cars so they can go to ice cream, and they can enjoy themselves.

马修·迪克斯：他们正走向汽车，这样他们就可以去吃冰淇淋，他们可以尽情享受。

So Boris is falling apart.

所以鲍里斯正在崩溃。

He's still devastated, but his son has already moved past the failure.

他仍然很沮丧，但他的儿子已经克服了失败。

Boris takes that story, and he crafts it as a beautiful story that he could tell on a stage, and perform and make, an audience laugh and cry.

鲍里斯接受了这个故事，并将其打造为一个美丽的故事，他可以在舞台上讲述、表演和制作，让观众欢笑和哭泣。

Once the story's done, he says to me, "So what are we going to do with it?

故事完成后，他对我说：“那么我们要用它做什么呢？

How are we going to apply this to business?" And ultimately what happens is this, he's got a sales team.

How are we going to apply this to business?"最终发生的事情是，他有一个销售团队。

And quite often salespeople do not land the big account they're hoping to land, and Boris knows that when his salespeople fail to achieve what they want to achieve, they will often sulk for days.

销售人员常常无法获得他们希望获得的大客户，鲍里斯知道，当他的销售人员未能实现他们想要实现的目标时，他们常常会闷闷不乐好几天。

They'll wander around the office, and be useless because they're still trying to get past the fact that they just lost the million dollar contract.

他们会在办公室里闲逛，毫无用处，因为他们仍在试图忘记刚刚失去了百万美元合同的事实。

Matthew Dicks: So he tells the story about his son, and he says, "Listen, there's nothing wrong with being sad, being upset with failure, but we cannot allow it to slow us down as much as we are right now.

We have to think about my son.

我们必须考虑我的儿子。

My son dragged his bat back to the dugout.

He sat down, he sighed, his buddies patted him on the back, he collected himself, and he moved on.

他坐下来，叹了口气，他的伙伴们拍拍他的背，他镇定下来，然后继续前行。

That's what we need to do.

When we fail we're going to take a moment to collect ourselves, to think about the mistakes we made, to decide what we're going to do differently, and then we're going to move on." That becomes a really important moment in his company.

When we fail we're going to take a moment to collect ourselves, to think about the mistakes we made, to decide what we're going to do differently, and then we're going to move on."这对他的公司来说是一个非常重要的时刻。

Matthew Dicks: It's much better than him standing up in front of his people and saying, "Listen, every time you guys fail to land a big sale, you wander around this office like you're dead, and you're wasting our time.

It ends today.

今天结束了。

Today from now on when you fail, you're going to move on." The story becomes something meaningful to everyone because it reveals something about Boris.

从今天开始，当你失败时，你要继续前进。”这个故事对每个人来说都有意义，因为它揭示了鲍里斯的一些事情。

He's a father, he's a father who cares about his son.

他是一个父亲，一个关心儿子的父亲。

He's the kind of father that most of us are in life.

他是我们大多数人生活中的那种父亲。

He shares of himself with his people, and he creates a tangible vision of what the sales team can do.

他与员工分享自己的经历，并为销售团队的能力制定了切实可行的愿景。

He does that all the time.

他一直这样做。

He comes to me, and he's not looking to solve problems through story.

他来找我，他并不是想通过故事来解决问题。

He's looking to develop stories that he can then deploy into his business.

他希望开发一些故事，然后将其部署到自己的业务中。

So I compare it, I say, band-aids versus bricks.

If you're building bricks, you're a storyteller that's capturing stories and building bricks, then you can eventually deploy into business.

如果你在搭积木，那么你就是一个讲故事的人，捕捉故事并搭积木，那么你最终可以部署到业务中。

If you're a band-aid person, which is fine, that happens.

如果你是一个喜欢贴创可贴的人，那没关系，这种情况就会发生。

"I have a problem, Matt, and I need a story to solve it."

“我有一个问题，马特，我需要一个故事来解决它。”

Matthew Dicks: Essentially what I'm doing there is I'm putting a band-aid over a problem, but you're not becoming a better storyteller.

马修·迪克斯：本质上我所做的就是在问题上贴上创可贴，但你并没有成为一个更好的讲故事的人。

You're just using me as a consultant to help you generate a story that will solve a problem.

你只是用我作为顾问来帮助你编写一个可以解决问题的故事。

That's fine, but you're going to need me the next time too.

没关系，但下次你也需要我。

You're going to keep needing me because you're not really becoming a storyteller.

你会一直需要我，因为你并没有真正成为一个讲故事的人。

Boris is building bricks.

He is building a vault of stories that he can then deploy into his business.

他正在建立一个故事库，然后将其部署到他的业务中。

He understands how to tell them, and how to connect them to business.

他知道如何告诉他们，以及如何将他们与业务联系起来。

So that's something that you can do very easily.

Matthew Dicks: Another example, the other star of my book is a woman named Marsha Rakofsky.

马修·迪克斯：另一个例子，我书中的另一位明星是一位名叫玛莎·拉科夫斯基的女性。

She used to be the director of corporate communications at Slack, and now she's sort of doing work on her own.

她曾经是 Slack 的企业传播总监，现在她有点自己做事了。

But when she was with Slack, she and I were working closely together, and she had to create the narrative that was going to compete against Microsoft Teams.

Essentially, Microsoft came along and said, "Hey, we copied your product and it's free, and everybody already has it."

本质上，微软出现并说：“嘿，我们复制了你的产品，而且它是免费的，每个人都已经拥有它了。”

Matthew Dicks: So Slack had to find a way to combat that, and Marsha was the one in charge of doing it.

马修·迪克斯：所以 Slack 必须找到一种方法来解决这个问题，而玛莎就是负责这件事的人。

That's why we connected.

这就是我们联系的原因。

She found me and said, "I need to tell a good story.

她找到我并说：“我需要讲一个好故事。

Please help me tell a good story." So she crafted a brilliant narrative that worked fantastically.

Please help me tell a good story."因此，她精心设计了一个精彩的故事，效果非常好。

We worked really closely together, and it came out great.

我们非常密切地合作，结果非常好。

The way she came up with that narrative was a Tuesday night.

她想出这个故事是在周二晚上。

She had broken up with her boyfriend, she was alone.

她和男友分手了，她孤身一人。

She was feeling pretty lonely.

她感到很孤独。

It was in the midst of the pandemic.

那是在大流行期间。

She had two glasses of wine in her, sitting alone on a Tuesday night, she suddenly had an inspiration.

她喝了两杯酒，一个人坐在周二的晚上，突然有了灵感。

She wrote three words down on a napkin, and those three words become the story that we develop that allows Slack to compete against Microsoft.

她在餐巾纸上写下三个词，这三个词成为我们开发的故事，让 Slack 能够与微软竞争。

Matthew Dicks: When it comes time to her present that narrative, I say, "You're going to include the Tuesday night and the two glasses of wine, and all that, right?" And she's like, "No, I'm not.

That's not what we do in the corporate world.

We do not insert ourselves into our narratives." And to her credit, she didn't put it in, and it still worked brilliantly.

We do not insert ourselves into our narratives."值得称赞的是，她没有把它放进去，而且它仍然发挥着出色的作用。

She was fine.

她很好。

But about a month later, she was presenting that same narrative to a smaller group, lower stakes.

但大约一个月后，她向规模较小、风险较低的群体讲述了同样的故事。

I said, "Let's just put it in, just try it this time." And to her everlasting credit, she did.

我说：“就放进去吧，这次就试试吧。” And to her everlasting credit, she did.

She put in a 30-second anecdote about Tuesday night, two glasses of wine, feeling lonely in the middle of a pandemic.

她讲了一段 30 秒的轶事，讲述周二晚上，喝了两杯酒，在大流行期间感到孤独。

Matthew Dicks: She said to me later, "I can't believe the difference that that 30 second anecdote meant to the narrative.

马修·迪克斯：她后来对我说，“我不敢相信这 30 秒的轶事对叙事的意义有何不同。

Because suddenly when I reached the end of the narrative, people wanted to talk to me.

因为当我讲完故事时，人们突然想和我说话。

People came up to me, and the first thing they said was," "Oh God, I remember I was feeling the same way during the pandemic."

人们来找我，他们说的第一句话是，“天哪，我记得在大流行期间我也有同样的感觉。”

Matthew Dicks: People connected to her because instead of being a corporate monolith, sort of like Slack spokesperson without personality, which is what we tend to be in business, she was an actual human being who had an inspiration on the Tuesday night, and then was bringing it forth in a meaningful way to an audience.

And from that point on, she always has been doing those things in storytelling.

从那时起，她就一直在讲故事中做这些事情。

She's always looking for a way in her narratives to insert herself, or if she's working with a client, let's find a way that we can work the client into the story as well.

Because people don't want to hear spokespeople present information.

因为人们不想听到发言人介绍信息。

They want to hear human beings connect with you, and then offer you something that perhaps will have value.

他们希望听到人们与你联系，然后为你提供一些可能有价值的东西。

Lenny: That is a really interesting lesson.

莱尼：这是一堂非常有趣的课。

So is your advice just when you're telling stories in business, try to find a way to make it personal about you as the person telling the story?

那么，您的建议是不是当您在商业中讲述故事时，尝试找到一种方法，让您作为讲述故事的人变得个性化？

Matthew Dicks: Yeah.

马修·迪克斯：是的。

I have this tool I use with corporate folks called, a personal interest inventory.

我有一个与公司人员一起使用的工具，称为个人兴趣清单。

It is a list of all the things that you should be saying about yourself in clever and strategic ways that I teach.

它列出了你应该用我教的聪明和战略性的方式谈论自己的所有事情。

Each one of them has an addressable market.

他们每个人都有一个潜在的市场。

So how many people could this potentially hit?

那么这可能会影响多少人呢？

And then the intensity of the connection.

然后是联系的强度。

So for example, if you're married, you should always make it clear to people you're married, especially if you're a man.

例如，如果您已婚，您应该始终向人们表明您已婚，尤其是如果您是男性。

Because if you're a man, and you're married, you're safer in the world because men are inherently just dangerous human beings.

因为如果你是一个男人，而且你结婚了，你在这个世界上就会更安全，因为男人本质上就是危险的人。

We just are.

我们只是。

If you hear that there was a shooting, you never think, "Oh, I wonder if that was a twenty-three- year-old blonde woman." You know who did the shooting almost all the time.

如果你听说发生了枪击事件，你绝不会想：“哦，我想知道那是不是一个二十三岁的金发女郎。”你几乎一直都知道是谁开枪的。

So if you're married, what you're essentially saying to people is, someone has agreed to spend theoretically their life with me.

所以，如果你结婚了，你本质上是在对人们说，理论上有人同意和我共度一生。

Matthew Dicks: It's like a validation that I have, at least hygiene and some decency.

马修·迪克斯：这就像对我的认可，至少是卫生和一些体面。

Most people are in a committed relationship so that means that a total addressable market is large.

大多数人都处于忠诚的关系中，这意味着总的潜在市场很大。

If I say I'm married, you're either married also, or you're in a committed relationship.

如果我说我结婚了，那么你要么也结婚了，要么你们正处于一段忠诚的关系中。

So the connection is going to be large.

所以联系将会很大。

The total addressable market is large.

总的潜在市场很大。

The possible connection, probably moderate.

可能的联系，可能是中等的。

I say it's like, "It's okay." But weird ones are like runners.

我说的是“没关系”。但奇怪的人就像跑步者。

I'm not a runner, and there's not a lot of runners in the world.

我不是跑步者，世界上跑步者也不多。

But if you're a marathoner, your total addressable market is very small.

但如果您是一名马拉松运动员，那么您的总目标市场就非常小。

There's not that many marathoners.

马拉松运动员并不多。

But if you happen to find a marathoner, the intensity of that connection is enormous.

但如果你碰巧找到一位马拉松运动员，那么这种联系的强度是巨大的。

Marathoners are almost automatically friends upon meeting what I've discovered.

马拉松运动员在遇到我的发现后几乎会自动成为朋友。

If you're just, "Oh, you ran a marathon?

如果你只是说，“哦，你跑过马拉松吗？

I ran a marathon." They're best friends already.

我跑了马拉松。”他们已经是最好的朋友了。

Matthew Dicks: So if you've run a marathon, and you're in a room and you discover someone else's run a marathon, you have to find a way to bring that out because the possibility of that connection is incredibly intense.

So as a person in the corporate world, you should not be seeking to be round, white and flavorless.

所以作为一个企业界的人，你不应该追求圆、白、无味。

You should be seeking to be full of color, and full of edge, and full of flavor.

你应该寻求充满色彩、充满边缘、充满风味。

You want to be an individual that people remember as opposed to what most people are trying to be, which is, I am just operating this corporate, or this business sphere, and I'm not trying to stand out, which is just a foolish thing to want to do.

Lenny: I could see why people wouldn't naturally do this.

莱尼：我明白为什么人们不会自然地这样做。

If I'm a head of comms for a company, the last thing I want is to make it about me.

如果我是一家公司的传播主管，我最不想做的就是让别人关注我。

And what you're saying is, you actually should, because people will find it a lot more interesting.

你所说的是，你实际上应该这样做，因为人们会发现它更有趣。

Matthew Dicks: Yeah, you don't want to make it all about you, but there's just little tricks.

马修·迪克斯：是的，你不想让一切都与你有关，但有一些小技巧。

The easiest trick is, if someone asks you, "How are you doing today?" If you say, " I'm doing great," you've just really screwed it up.

最简单的技巧是，如果有人问你：“你今天过得怎么样？”如果你说“我做得很好”，那你就真的搞砸了。

That's the stupidest answer you can offer.

这是你能提供的最愚蠢的答案。

If you ask me, "How am I doing today," I'm immediately going to think to myself, elementary school teacher is probably my best personal interest inventory item.

Because if I'm an elementary school teacher, everyone loves me.

因为如果我是一名小学老师，每个人都会爱我。

They think I'm doing God's work, even though they don't want to pay me a dime to do it.

他们认为我正在做上帝的工作，尽管他们不想付给我一毛钱。

So if you say, "How are you doing today?" I will say to you, "Pretty good.

因此，如果你说：“你今天过得怎么样？”我会对你说：“很好。

My fifth graders were actually decent human beings today.

我的五年级学生今天实际上都是正派的人。

They didn't try to kill me."

他们并没有试图杀我。”

Matthew Dicks: So in that way, I'm going to slip in the fact that I'm an elementary school teacher by answering your question, I'm going to demonstrate a bit of amusing content in the process, and maybe a little self deprecation.

But whenever I'm asked a question, I am trying to include an item of my personality, my life, something that might be of interest to people while also answering the question.

You don't want to walk into a situation and say, "Hi, I'm a married elementary school teacher with two kids and two cats." But that's what I want to do because I know that that's going to make people feel connected to me.

你不想在遇到某种情况时说：“嗨，我是一名已婚小学老师，有两个孩子和两只猫。”但这就是我想做的，因为我知道这会让人们感觉与我有联系。

So I have to find strategic ways to work it in.

所以我必须找到策略性的方法来实现它。

I teach people to do it all the time.

我一直教人们这样做。

But it starts with understanding what about you might mean something to other people, and how can I get it in there without me sounding like I'm only talking about myself?

Lenny: What else?

莱尼：还有什么？

So we're basically talking about ways to become a better communicator and storyteller in business.

所以我们基本上讨论的是如何成为商业中更好的沟通者和讲故事的人。

You've shared a few tidbits here.

您在这里分享了一些花絮。

One is, think of this personal inventory about yourself that makes you relatable.

一是，想想你自己的个人清单，它会让你产生共鸣。

Try to share it in stories you tell, and presentations, and things like that.

尝试在你讲的故事、演示等类似的事情中分享它。

What else can people do to become better storytellers in business?

人们还可以做些什么来成为商业中更好的讲故事的人？

I know this is a big question, but let's see where it goes.

我知道这是一个大问题，但让我们看看它会走向何方。

Matthew Dicks: Let's go back to the idea that in business, you have to accept the fact that nobody wants to hear anything you have to say, that is not accepted by most people, even after I say it.

So once you understand that, and once you truly believe it, there's essentially four ways to keep people listening to you in any story really, but especially in business, because really no one wants to listen to you in business.

So the first is stakes, which we've really talked about already.

首先是赌注，我们已经讨论过了。

You have to have stakes.

你必须有赌注。

In every good product story and every good PowerPoint...

在每一个好的产品故事和每一个好的 PowerPoint 中......

Everything, there are stakes, and they're set out and exactly the way I've described.

一切都有赌注，而且它们的设置方式与我所描述的完全一样。

All five of the stakes that I've described to you that I use in that story, Charity Thief can also be used in every business story, every PowerPoint deck, every entrepreneur pitch, everything.

So stakes is one of them.

所以赌注就是其中之一。

Matthew Dicks: Another one we've talked about is, surprise.

马修·迪克斯：我们谈论的另一个问题是惊喜。

I should absolutely be surprised in every talk that you give.

我绝对应该对你的每一次演讲感到惊讶。

Steve Jobs was a master of it.

史蒂夫·乔布斯是这方面的大师。

We could look at one of his talks, and I could show you how he planned it perfectly.

我们可以看一下他的一次演讲，我可以向你展示他是如何完美计划的。

Some others include suspense.

其他一些包括悬念。

So keeping an audience in suspense, and often suspense leads to surprise.

因此，让观众保持悬念，而悬念往往会带来惊喜。

So mastering the ability to be suspenseful.

所以要掌握悬疑的能力。

And then humor, daring to be funny, which no one in corporate America can do.

然后是幽默、敢于搞笑，这是美国企业界没人能做到的。

Everyone wants to be funny.

每个人都想变得有趣。

Every person I've ever met, who I've worked with, every business person in some way wanted to be funny, but that's really not actually what they want.

They want to have been funny, because being funny means you must take a risk.

他们希望变得有趣，因为有趣意味着你必须冒险。

You must say something that you believe is funny, and you expect an audience to also feel it's funny, and if it doesn't happen, that hurts.

你必须说一些你认为有趣的事情，并且你希望观众也觉得它很有趣，如果没有发生，那就很痛苦。

Matthew Dicks: So people oftentimes tell me they want to be funny, but when I tell them how they need to be funny, they say, "Well, I can't say that." And then I say, "Well, that's the part that's funny." So I was working with a guy, sort of an executive at a company that you interact with every day.

Matthew Dicks: So people oftentimes tell me they want to be funny, but when I tell them how they need to be funny, they say, "Well, I can't say that."然后我说：“嗯，这就是有趣的部分。”所以我和一个人一起工作，他是一家公司的高管，你每天都会与之打交道。

He was delivering a talk at the Javits Center, and he was going to be funny.

他正在贾维茨中心发表演讲，他会很有趣。

We built in a talk, lots of jokes.

我们聊了很多笑话。

He was ready to go.

他准备出发了。

He went to the Javits Center, and four hours later he called me, and I said, "How'd it go?" He said, "I pulled out all the jokes." I said, "Why did you pull out all the jokes?" He said, "The first two speakers weren't funny at all.

他去了贾维茨中心，四个小时后他打电话给我，我说：“怎么样？”他说：“我把所有的笑话都拿出来了。”我说：“你为什么把所有的笑话都拿出来？”他说：“前两个演讲者一点也不好笑。

I felt like if I went on stage and I was funny, I was going to stick out like a sore thumb."

我觉得如果我走上舞台并且表现得很有趣，我就会像个大拇指酸痛的人一样引人注目。”

Matthew Dicks: I said, "No, you were going to rise from the ashes like a phoenix that everyone has been waiting to hear all day." It's the best thing in the world to follow two terrible people, and then go out there and land some jokes.

马修·迪克斯：我说，“不，你会像凤凰一样从灰烬中复活，每个人都在等待一整天。”跟随两个可怕的人，然后出去开一些玩笑，这是世界上最好的事情。

But again, he thought, I have to stay within the confines of the herd rather than doing something different.

但他又想，我必须留在群体的范围内，而不是做一些不同的事情。

But humor is a brilliant, and beautiful, and simple way to differentiate yourself from other people, but you have to be willing to try to do it.

但幽默是一种让自己与其他人区分开来的聪明、美丽、简单的方式，但你必须愿意尝试这样做。

It's a scary thing for people.

对于人们来说这是一件可怕的事情。

But I say it stakes, it's surprise, it's suspense, and it's humor.

但我说它是赌注，它是惊喜，它是悬念，它是幽默。

Those are the ways that you're going to.

这些就是你将要采用的方法。

Matthew Dicks: Stakes, it's surprise, it's suspense, and it's humor.

马修·迪克斯：赌注，它是惊喜，它是悬念，它是幽默。

Those are the ways that you're going to hold people and keep them listening.

这些就是你吸引人们并让他们倾听的方法。

And if you're not engaged in one of those four things while you're speaking, people are not listening to you anymore.

如果你在演讲时没有做这四件事中的一件，人们就不会再听你说话了。

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Lenny：本集由 Vanta 为您带来，可帮助您简化安全合规性以加速您的成长。

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Vanta 帮助公司获取加速增长、建立高效合规流程、降低业务风险以及与外部利益相关者建立信任所需的报告。

Over 5,000 fast-growing companies use Vanta to automate up to 90% of the work involved with SOC 2 and these other frameworks.

超过 5,000 家快速发展的公司使用 Vanta 自动化 SOC 2 和其他框架所涉及的高达 90% 的工作。

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在有限的时间内，Lenny's Podcast 听众可享受 Vanta 1,000 美元优惠。

Go to vanta.com/lenny, that's V-A-N-T-A.com/lenny to learn more and to claim your discounts.

请访问vanta.com/lenny（即V-A-N-T-A.com/lenny）了解更多信息并申请折扣。

Get started today.

今天就开始吧。

To follow this thread on humor which I was going to ask, what do you tell people to become more funny?

为了遵循我要问的幽默主题，你告诉人们什么才能变得更有趣？

What are some tricks?

有哪些技巧呢？

Matthew Dicks: Well, I have currently 26 strategies to be funny.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，我目前有 26 种搞笑策略。

Some are better for business than others.

有些比其他更适合做生意。

I will give you two that we can use in business all the time.

我会给你两个我们可以在业务中一直使用的。

The first one you can use is nostalgia, because nostalgia is always funny.

你可以使用的第一个是怀旧，因为怀旧总是很有趣。

The fact that the first VCR I had was 22 pounds and had a remote control attached by a cord that was thick enough that I could trip my brother as he walked through the living room is funny.

The fact that I grew up and no one was allergic to anything and we all ate bread, packed with gluten and baked in asbestos factories and no one ever wore a helmet while they rode their bike.

All of these things can be made to be funny.

所有这些事情都可以变得有趣。

And it's so easy in business because oftentimes you are rolling out a new product or a new service or you're updating a product or service in a way that allows you to speak nostalgically about the past.

Matthew Dicks: I was working with this company and they failed me.

马修·迪克斯：我曾与这家公司合作，但他们让我失望了。

They did not listen to my advice which was a mistake.

他们没有听我的建议，这是一个错误。

They're like an Indeed company.

他们就像一家 Indeed 公司。

They're helping find employees for companies they're one of these people.

他们正在帮助公司寻找员工，他们就是其中之一。

And I wanted to start their narrative with the idea of in 1983, the primary source of employment was a 16-year- old kid riding on the back of a Schwinn, throwing newspapers at doors.

我想从 1983 年的想法开始他们的叙述，主要的就业来源是一个 16 岁的孩子，骑在 Schwinn 的后面，向门口扔报纸。

And in that newspaper, which was like a paper version of the internet, you would turn to the back page and on that page there was the help wanted ads.

在那份报纸上，就像互联网的纸质版本，你会翻到最后一页，在那一页上有招聘广告。

And that was essentially all you had to find a job in 1983.

这基本上就是 1983 年你找到工作所需要的一切。

Everything was geographically based, meaning you only could look into three or four towns around you to find a job.

一切都是基于地理位置的，这意味着你只能到周围的三四个城镇去寻找工作。

And it had to be in the paper and you had to own a phone connected to a wall so you could call a company within business hours and hope to get an interview.

它必须出现在报纸上，而且你必须拥有一部连接到墙上的电话，这样你就可以在工作时间内给公司打电话并希望获得采访。

Matthew Dicks: All of the power lived with the employers in 1983 and a 16-year-old who was dropping a newspaper off at your porch every day.

马修·迪克斯：1983 年，所有权力都掌握在雇主和一个每天在你家门廊扔报纸的 16 岁男孩手中。

That's funny.

那很好笑。

Again, I didn't even try to be funny with it.

再说一次，我什至没有试图用它来搞笑。

I just stated the facts.

我只是陈述了事实。

We could have punched that up and made it really funny.

我们本可以把它打碎，让它变得非常有趣。

And then we flip the script again, the opposites in story.

然后我们再次翻转剧本，故事相反。

In the beginning, employers had all the power.

一开始，雇主拥有所有的权力。

Today, employees have all the power.

今天，员工拥有一切权力。

Because today you can work in Singapore or Chattanooga, while you're living in Orlando.

因为今天您可以在新加坡或查塔努加工作，同时住在奥兰多。

And today you don't have to wait for a 16-year-old to deliver the paper with all of your job opportunities.

今天，你不必等待 16 岁的人来交出包含你所有工作机会的论文。

Every single job opportunity on the planet is now accessible to you on the internet.

现在，您可以通过互联网获得地球上的每一个工作机会。

And you can work basically anywhere from anywhere.

而且您基本上可以随时随地工作。

So that's why we need companies like Indeed or the company I was working for, because they have to actually gain some power for the employers.

这就是为什么我们需要像 Indeed 或我工作的公司这样的公司，因为他们必须真正为雇主获得一些权力。

Matthew Dicks: So that was the narrative we were going to tell, and the beginning would've been funny.

马修·迪克斯：这就是我们要讲的故事，开头会很有趣。

And the CEO of the company said, "I don't like it." He said, "Nobody cares about the 1980s." Which was the dumbest thing he could have said because Stranger Things was the biggest television show on television at the time, which was nothing.

该公司的首席执行官说：“我不喜欢它。”他说：“没有人关心 20 世纪 80 年代。”这是他能说的最愚蠢的话，因为《怪奇物语》是当时电视上最大的电视节目，这没什么。

But in 1980s.

但在20世纪80年代。

And if he just looked around, he would see that 1980s fashion is coming back.

如果他环顾四周，就会发现 20 世纪 80 年代的时尚正在卷土重来。

1980s music is being popularized again.

20世纪80年代的音乐再次流行起来。

We're remaking 1980s music all the time.

我们一直在重新制作 20 世纪 80 年代的音乐。

Taylor Swift put out an album called 1989.

泰勒·斯威夫特发行了一张名为《1989》的专辑。

Whether or not the 1980s are relevant or not, it's relevant to talk about the past as a company to demonstrate your expertise in your field.

无论 20 世纪 80 年代是否相关，作为一家公司，谈论过去以展示您在自己领域的专业知识是有意义的。

To understand that we know the market backwards and forwards for the last 50 years.

要了解我们对过去 50 年的市场情况了如指掌。

We have expertise and we can demonstrate it by telling a story.

我们拥有专业知识，我们可以通过讲故事来证明这一点。

So that's the power of nostalgia and we can use that all the time in business to make people laugh.

这就是怀旧的力量，我们可以在商业中一直利用它来让人们发笑。

Matthew Dicks: The other one I'll give you, again, there's a whole bunch, but a simple one is a game they used to play on Sesame Street, which is one of these things that's not like the other.

马修·迪克斯：我再给你一个，有一大堆，但有一个简单的是他们以前在《芝麻街》上玩的一款游戏，这是其中一个与另一个不同的游戏。

Essentially it's three things.

本质上是三件事。

Two of them are expected and one is unexpected, and the unexpected one will be funny.

其中两个是意料之中的，一个是意外的，意外的就会搞笑。

So you can say like, well, my competitor, they have this.

所以你可以说，好吧，我的竞争对手，他们有这个。

My hardware competitor, the guy down the street, he does sell shovels just like I do.

我的硬件竞争对手，街上的那个人，他和我一样卖铲子。

That's true.

这是真的。

And he does offer a wide selection of nails just like I do.

他确实像我一样提供多种指甲选择。

But there's a nameless, faceless machine at the front of the store that you have to swipe your own stuff through and your credit card, there's not actually a human being in the store.

但商店前面有一台无名无名的机器，你必须刷自己的东西和信用卡，商店里实际上没有人。

And we can make that funny by showing that the third one is unlike the other two.

我们可以通过展示第三个与其他两个不同来使这一点变得有趣。

So it's essentially a simple game once I've told it to you, you'll see every comic do it all the time.

因此，一旦我告诉你，这本质上是一个简单的游戏，你会看到每个漫画都一直在这样做。

They just say thing that's expected, thing that's expected, unexpected thing, and you make it funny.

他们只是说一些意料之中的事情、意料之中的事情、意料之外的事情，然后你就让它变得有趣。

So it's a simple trick that we use in business all the time.

所以这是我们在商业中一直使用的一个简单技巧。

Lenny: This is awesome.

莱尼：这太棒了。

This list you're talking about, is this going to be in your new book that you're writing?

您正在谈论的这份清单会出现在您正在写的新书中吗？

Matthew Dicks: Not all 26 of them because some are not the best business ones in the world, but a large number of them.

马修·迪克斯：不是全部 26 个，因为有些不是世界上最好的商业企业，但数量很大。

I think I maybe have the top 12 that work best in business in terms of humor.

我想我可能有 12 名最适合商业幽默的人。

But you can just take a humor class.

但你可以参加幽默课。

I teach humor all the time.

我一直在教幽默。

I teach all 26 strategies.

我教授全部 26 种策略。

It's something that can be practiced.

这是可以练习的东西。

The beautiful thing is so often many of the strategies that I offer in business, if it doesn't end up being funny, you're still telling a story.

美妙的事情往往是我在商业中提供的许多策略，如果它最终并不有趣，你仍然在讲一个故事。

It's not a ba-bum-bum-ching joke.

这不是一个 ba-bum-bum-ching 的笑话。

We're not telling those jokes.

我们不会讲那些笑话。

We're telling humor in the confines of a story so that if this joke doesn't land we're still telling a story.

我们在故事的范围内讲幽默，所以如果这个笑话不受欢迎，我们仍然在讲一个故事。

And oftentimes people don't even realize we were trying to be funny.

通常人们甚至没有意识到我们是在试图搞笑。

Lenny: I'm going to come back to where story can help you in your work.

莱尼：我要回到故事可以帮助你工作的地方。

So obviously giving a public talk is the classic way to use this, maybe giving a PowerPoint deck in a meeting.

显然，进行公开演讲是使用此功能的经典方法，也许可以在会议中提供 PowerPoint 演示文稿。

Is there any other maybe non-obvious places that you think this skill can help you in that's not just like, "Hey everyone welcome to my..."

您认为这项技能是否还有其他可能不明显的地方可以帮助您，而不仅仅是“嘿，大家欢迎来到我的……”

Matthew Dicks: Well, I've worked with a lot of scientists in biotech and places like that.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，我在生物技术和类似领域与很多科学家合作过。

I worked with a biotech company.

我在一家生物技术公司工作。

Five of their scientists were going to a conference.

他们的五名科学家要去参加一个会议。

And essentially it's a company that sells tubes.

本质上它是一家销售电子管的公司。

All of their competitors sell a tube for experiments and you have to retrofit the tube to fit your needs.

他们所有的竞争对手都出售用于实验的管子，您必须改装管子以满足您的需求。

The company I was working with, they sell 12 different versions of the tube.

我工作的公司销售 12 种不同版本的电子管。

Better sized so you don't have to retrofit it, much more expensive, but the reliability of your experiments are improved by using their properly sized tubes.

尺寸更好，因此您不必对其进行改造，成本要高得多，但通过使用尺寸合适的试管，可以提高实验的可靠性。

So I prepare all the scientists and they all do a good job.

所以我让所有的科学家都做好了准备，他们都做得很好。

They all tell stories of some sort and they go off to their conference.

他们都会讲某种故事，然后去参加会议。

Matthew Dicks: One guy though doesn't present any data whatsoever.

马修·迪克斯：有一个人没有提供任何数据。

He just tells a story.

他只是讲一个故事。

He tells a story about going to the grocery store and when he goes to the grocery store, his family is really annoying when it comes to apples.

他讲了一个去杂货店的故事，当他去杂货店时，他的家人一提到苹果就很烦人。

Because everyone likes a different apple.

因为每个人喜欢的苹果不同。

So he's got to go and he is got to buy three Honeycrisp for his wife and two Gala for his daughter.

所以他必须走了，他必须为他的妻子买三块蜜脆，为他的女儿买两块嘎拉。

And they're baking a pie this week so they got to get some McIntosh and he likes Red Delicious.

这周他们要烤馅饼，所以他们得买一些麦金托什，他喜欢红美味。

He said, "It's a nightmare buying these apples." So he tells that story about the nightmare of buying apples, and then he says, "That's what my company does." There are companies that say, "We offer McIntosh, make do with it.

他说：“买这些苹果真是一场噩梦。”所以他讲述了购买苹果的噩梦的故事，然后他说，“这就是我的公司所做的。”有些公司说：“我们提供麦金托什，凑合着用吧。

You're going to make your pies, you're, you're going to eat it.

你要做馅饼，你要吃它。

All of the things that you want to do with an apple, all you get is McIntosh.

你想用苹果做的所有事情，你都能得到麦金托什。

Good luck.

祝你好运。

We believe you should have access to all the apples.

我们相信您应该能够获得所有苹果。

We believe that you have particular needs and specific requirements, and we're going to make sure you have it.

我们相信您有特殊的需求和具体要求，我们将确保您满足。

Just like my family gets all the apples they want.

就像我的家人得到了他们想要的所有苹果一样。

Matthew Dicks: It's all he said.

马修·迪克斯：这就是他说的。

A longer version of it, but that's it.

它的更长版本，但仅此而已。

No data.

没有数据。

He got more leads at the conference than the other four scientists combined.

他在会议上获得的领先优势比其他四位科学家的总和还多。

Now the vice president of marketing was not happy about this at all when I met I met with her.

现在，当我和她见面时，营销副总裁对此一点也不高兴。

Because she's a scientist.

因为她是一名科学家。

She's 50 years old.

她今年 50 岁了。

For her entire life, she's been sending scientists to conferences and presenting data.

她一生都在派科学家参加会议并展示数据。

And she said to me, "So what am I going to do?

她对我说：“那我该怎么办呢？

Send scientists to conferences now and not present data?" And I said, "Well, I mean maybe because it worked" And she said, "Well, what about the data?" I said, "Now that he has the leads, you don't think they're going to want the data?" He's going to get on the phone and they're going to say, tell us about the data.

现在就派科学家去参加会议而不是提供数据吗？”我说，“好吧，我的意思是也许因为它有效”她说，“好吧，那么数据呢？”我说，“现在他有了线索，你认为他们不会想要这些数据吗？”他会打电话，他们会说，告诉我们有关数据的信息。

But now they've established a connection.

但现在他们已经建立了联系。

Matthew Dicks: And the best thing about that story, the thing she didn't even understand was, every single time someone at that conference goes into a grocery store now and they're looking at apples, they're going to think about that company.

马修·迪克斯：这个故事最棒的一点是，她甚至不明白的是，每次会议上的人走进一家杂货店，他们看着苹果，他们就会想到那家公司。

And it's a positive feeling that they're going to have about that company.

他们会对这家公司产生积极的感觉。

If they have forgotten to call, but they meant to call, when they're picking out a Honeycrisp at the grocery store, they're going to make a note.

如果他们忘记打电话，但他们打算打电话，那么当他们在杂货店挑选蜜脆时，他们会做笔记。

Oh, right, I got to call that company and look into the tubes that they sell.

哦，对了，我得打电话给那家公司，调查一下他们销售的管子。

We create positive connections with items in the world related to our company by telling stories, and that means we've built advertising into people's lives without them even being aware that we've done it.

我们通过讲故事与世界上与我们公司相关的物品建立积极的联系，这意味着我们已经将广告融入人们的生活，而他们甚至没有意识到我们已经做到了这一点。

So there's a billion ways to add storytelling into business.

因此，有十亿种方法可以将讲故事融入到商业中。

It's just another one.

这只是另一件事。

Lenny: You touched on this two-way approach.

莱尼：您谈到了这种双向方法。

One is, you have a problem.

一是，你有问题。

Let me think of a story to help me solve this problem, versus I'm going to become a storyteller, come up with this whole brick wall of stories and then I'll deploy them.

让我想一个故事来帮助我解决这个问题，而不是我要成为一个讲故事的人，想出整个故事的砖墙，然后我将部署它们。

You said that the first approach is not something you'd recommend.

您说第一种方法不是您推荐的方法。

I imagine most people are probably going to be in that bucket like I don't want to be a storyteller.

我想大多数人可能都会陷入这样的境地，就像我不想成为一个讲故事的人一样。

I just want to solve my problems and stories can sometimes help me there.

我只是想解决我的问题，而故事有时可以帮助我。

So maybe in that bucket, do you have any advice for how to find a story that somehow helps you with that problem on demand, or is it just like that is not going to work?

那么，也许在这个桶中，您对如何找到一个可以以某种方式帮助您按需解决问题的故事有什么建议，或者只是这样行不通？

You're not going to think of a story every time you have some problem?

你不会每次遇到问题的时候都想一个故事吧？

Matthew Dicks: I think sometimes you will.

马修·迪克斯：我想有时你会的。

I have a company that calls me metaphor man.

我有一家公司称我为隐喻人。

They call me essentially and say-

他们基本上打电话给我并说-

Matthew Dicks: "...

马修·迪克斯：“……

we've added a boring feature to our boring platform and we need to make people understand what it does.

我们在无聊的平台上添加了一个无聊的功能，我们需要让人们了解它的作用。

Will you give us the metaphor we need?" They don't understand that I'm not really generating metaphors.

你能给我们需要的隐喻吗？”他们不明白我并没有真正产生隐喻。

I am just taking stories from my life, pulling myself out of the story.

我只是从我的生活中汲取故事，把自己从故事中拉出来。

And if you take yourself out of a story, often what's left is a metaphor, a simile, an example.

如果你把自己从故事中抽离出来，剩下的往往就是一个隐喻、一个明喻、一个例子。

And then I just offer that to them.

然后我就把这个提供给他们。

And I tell them, if you just use some of my storytelling generating techniques, you could do the same thing.

我告诉他们，如果你只使用我的一些讲故事的生成技术，你也可以做同样的事情。

But they're a bandaid company.

但他们是一家创可贴公司。

They just want me to fix things.

他们只是想让我解决问题。

And I understand that.

我明白这一点。

If you're trying to do it, the best way to tell a story about something that you want people to understand is to do what I call speaking with adjacency, which means we're not going to match content to content.

如果你想这样做，那么讲述一个你想让人们理解的故事的最好方法就是我所说的邻接说话，这意味着我们不会将内容与内容相匹配。

Instead, we're going to match theme, meaning or message.

相反，我们要匹配主题、意义或信息。

Matthew Dicks: So that scientist, for example, he wasn't talking about tubes.

马修·迪克斯：例如，那位科学家并不是在谈论管子。

He was talking about how people deserve to get what they want in life.

他谈论的是人们如何应该得到他们想要的生活。

His family deserves to get the apples they want, and you as a business deserves to get the tubes that you want.

他的家人应该得到他们想要的苹果，而你作为一个企业应该得到你想要的管子。

But so often in business what people think is content to content, well, I got to find a way to talk about these tubes to make people understand how important they are.

但在商界，人们常常认为内容就是满足，所以我必须找到一种方法来谈论这些管子，让人们了解它们的重要性。

And I say, well, let's not talk about the tubes.

我说，好吧，我们不要谈论管子。

Let's talk about something else instead, and then we're going to move what we were talking about over two tubes.

让我们来谈谈别的事情，然后我们将把我们正在谈论的内容转移到两个管子上。

We are going to snap it in place.

我们要把它固定到位。

That snap when someone realizes, you were telling me about apples, but really you were telling me about tubes.

当有人意识到时，你突然意识到，你是在告诉我有关苹果的事，但实际上你是在告诉我有关电子管的事。

That snap is so powerful.

那一击的力量实在是太强大了。

I use it with students all the time.

我一直和学生一起使用它。

Matthew Dicks: A student acts like a fool, gets in trouble sitting at my desk.

马修·迪克斯：一个学生表现得像个傻瓜，坐在我的课桌前会遇到麻烦。

I'm not talking about their behavior.

我不是在谈论他们的行为。

I'm telling a story that they have no idea why I am telling them the story.

我正在讲一个故事，他们不知道我为什么要告诉他们这个故事。

They're like, "I'm in trouble.

他们就像是，“我有麻烦了。

Why is he telling me about his dog?

他为什么要告诉我他的狗的事？

Why is he telling me a story about his dog when he was 12?" Because I'm going to snap it into place.

他为什么要给我讲一个关于他 12 岁时的狗的故事？”因为我要把它固定到位。

Because I'm not talking about content, theme, meaning or message.

因为我不是在谈论内容、主题、意义或信息。

So when they come to me and they say, "Here's what we've got." I'm not thinking about the thing.

因此，当他们来找我时，他们说：“这就是我们所拥有的。”我没在想这件事。

I'm thinking about, what is the theme they want to convey or the meaning that they want to convey or the message they want to convey.

我在想，他们想要传达的主题是什么或者他们想要传达的意义或者他们想要传达的信息是什么。

And what story do I have that will match that or what story can I get out of them?

我有什么故事可以与之匹配，或者我可以从其中得到什么故事？

Matthew Dicks: The scientist did not come to me with the apple story.

马修·迪克斯：这位科学家并没有带着苹果的故事来找我。

The scientist came to me with the tubes and I said, "Well, it sounds like you're a company that wants to give people what they need.

那位科学家拿着管子来找我，我说：“嗯，听起来你们是一家想要为人们提供他们所需要的东西的公司。

Let's find a story in your life about a time when you have to give people something that they need." And we brainstormed it.

让我们在你的生活中找一个故事，讲述你必须为人们提供他们需要的东西的时刻。”我们对此进行了集思广益。

And when we landed on apples, I knew we had it.

当我们降落在苹果上时，我知道我们已经成功了。

Because he was going to be able to talk about, I'm a father.

因为他将能够谈论“我是一名父亲”。

I'm a husband.

我是一个丈夫。

I'm the husband who takes apple orders from his family before going to the grocery store.

我是在去杂货店之前从家人那里接受苹果订单的丈夫。

I'm going to be able to be funny, because befuddled husbands in grocery stores are always funny.

我将能够变得有趣，因为杂货店里迷糊的丈夫总是很有趣。

So it wasn't that he came to me with a story.

所以他并不是带着故事来找我的。

I came to him with the idea of let's look at theme, meaning and message and then snap it over to the tubes.

我找到他的想法是让我们看看主题、意义和信息，然后将其转移到管子上。

That's what we want to do when we're putting a band-aid on.

这就是我们贴创可贴时想要做的事情。

We don't want to think about what we're talking about.

我们不想思考我们正在谈论的事情。

We want to think about the feelings we want people to have about what we're talking about.

我们想要考虑我们希望人们对我们所谈论的内容有什么感受。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

Okay.

好的。

So the advice here essentially is you're trying to find a story to tell about something, to help you convince someone of something.

所以这里的建议本质上是你试图找到一个故事来讲述某件事，以帮助你说服某人某件事。

You want to think about what is the theme of this problem that I have?

你想一下我这个问题的主题是什么吗？

What is the meaning behind it and what is the message?

它背后的含义是什么？要传达的信息是什么？

Matthew Dicks: Yeah.

马修·迪克斯：是的。

Usually one of those.

通常是其中之一。

Yeah.

是的。

Lenny: And then you also touched back on make something in the story relate to something personal about you so that people are like, oh, I'm a runner too.

莱尼：然后你还谈到让故事中的某些内容与你个人的一些内容相关，这样人们就会说，哦，我也是一个跑步者。

I got to pay attention to this guy.

我得注意这个家伙。

Or I'm shopping.

或者我正在购物。

I shop all the time for apples.

我一直在买苹果。

Matthew Dicks: Yes.

马修·迪克斯：是的。

See, so we're stacking strategies, which is a really good thing to do.

看，我们正在堆叠策略，这确实是一件好事。

So we're pulling in all of the things I've talked about and it really makes for a powerful moment for people and a memorable moment.

因此，我们正在吸收我所讨论过的所有内容，这确实为人们带来了一个强大的时刻，也是一个难忘的时刻。

Because the most important thing is that we're becoming memorable.

因为最重要的是我们变得令人难忘。

We are in a conference amongst other scientists and we're actually the one who's being remembered.

我们和其他科学家一起参加一个会议，而我们实际上是被记住的人。

Lenny: So that was the band-aid approach.

莱尼：这就是创可贴的方法。

Then there's the way you recommend it was just build a bank of stories.

然后你推荐的方法就是建立一个故事库。

I imagine this is where the Homework for Life framework you recommend comes from.

我想这就是您推荐的“终身作业”框架的来源。

So maybe let's transition talk about that.

所以也许让我们来谈谈过渡吧。

Because I think that has a lot of benefits beyond even just coming up with a bunch of story ideas.

因为我认为这比仅仅提出一堆故事创意还有很多好处。

Matthew Dicks: Yeah.

马修·迪克斯：是的。

It's the most important thing that I teach.

这是我教的最重要的事情。

Whether or not you're ever going to speak in your life.

无论你一生中是否会说话。

If you plan on being a hermit and going off into the woods and never speaking to someone again, you should be doing Homework for Life regardless.

如果你打算成为一名隐士，走进树林里，不再与人说话，那么无论如何，你都应该做终身家庭作业。

It's a process I came up with maybe 15 years ago now.

这是我大概 15 年前想出的一个流程。

Essentially when I began telling stories on stages, I fell in love with it immediately, and I got worried that I was going to run out of stories.

本质上，当我开始在舞台上讲故事时，我立即爱上了它，并且我担心我的故事会用完。

I saw a lot of storytellers on stages performing, and they would tell the same 6, 7, 8 stories every time, and I didn't want to be that guy.

我看到很多讲故事的人在舞台上表演，他们每次都会讲同样的6、7、8个故事，我不想成为那样的人。

I wanted to have a brand new story every time I took the stage.

我希望每次上台都有一个全新的故事。

Matthew Dicks: So in a fit of panic, I decided to assign myself homework being an elementary school teacher, it's natural for me to have that inclination.

马修·迪克斯：所以在一阵恐慌中，我决定给自己布置作业，作为一名小学老师，我有这种倾向是很自然的。

So I just decided every day before I go to bed, I'm going to look back on the day and find one moment that would've been worth telling as a story.

所以我决定每天睡觉前，我都会回顾这一天，找到一个值得作为故事讲述的时刻。

Even if it wasn't really worth telling, I was going to write it down.

即使不值得说，我也要把它写下来。

Now I don't write the whole thing down.

现在我不把整个事情写下来。

That's crazy.

太疯狂了。

It's not doable.

这是不可行的。

What I do is I took an Excel spreadsheet, two columns, the date, and then I stretched the B column across.

我所做的就是拿一个 Excel 电子表格、两列、日期，然后拉伸 B 列。

And in that B column, essentially the length of the computer screen, that's where I write my story.

在 B 栏中，基本上是电脑屏幕的长度，这就是我写故事的地方。

Matthew Dicks: My goal was I find one new moment per month.

马修·迪克斯：我的目标是每月找到一个新时刻。

12 new stories per year.

每年 12 个新故事。

That would be amazing.

那真是太棒了。

Instead, something far more amazing happens.

相反，更令人惊奇的事情发生了。

I discovered that my life is filled with more stories than I will ever have time to tell.

我发现我的生活充满了更多的故事，我没有时间去讲述。

And I'm not a unicorn.

而且我不是独角兽。

Thousands of people all over the world are doing the same thing right now and discovering that their lives are filled with stories.

世界各地成千上万的人现在正在做同样的事情，并发现他们的生活充满了故事。

Moments like Eileen, which 20 years ago, I would've forgotten that moment within days, and now I've held onto it because it's going to be a Homework for Life moment.

像艾琳这样的时刻，如果是在 20 年前，我会在几天内忘记那个时刻，而现在我一直保留着它，因为这将是一个终生的家庭作业时刻。

Matthew Dicks: So I start writing those moments down, and I discovered that I'm developing a lens for storytelling.

马修·迪克斯：所以我开始写下这些时刻，我发现我正在开发一个讲故事的镜头。

I see the moments that I did not see before.

我看到了以前没有看到的时刻。

In fact, I just did some analysis for my new book.

其实我只是对我的新书做了一些分析。

In the first year I did Homework for Life I found 1.8 moments per day.

在我做终身家庭作业的第一年，我发现每天有 1.8 个时刻。

So you can find more than one.

这样你就可以找到多个。

Eventually I started recording more than one.

最终我开始录制不止一张。

So 1.8 moments per day.

所以每天1.8分钟。

I now find 7.6 moments per day.

我现在每天找到 7.6 个时刻。

It's not because my life is more interesting.

这并不是因为我的生活更有趣。

It's because I have a better lens and I understand what to look for, what to see, and what is worth remembering.

因为我有更好的镜头，我明白要寻找什么，要看到什么，什么是值得记住的。

So I've become a person who has an endless number of stories like Boris.

于是我就成了一个像鲍里斯一样有说不完的故事的人。

Matthew Dicks: Boris does Homework for Life.

马修·迪克斯：鲍里斯终生做家庭作业。

It's why whenever we meet, he's got three new stories to tell me.

这就是为什么每当我们见面时，他都会告诉我三个新故事。

And then we work on the stories and then figure out the business applications for them.

然后我们研究这些故事，然后找出它们的业务应用程序。

So it's so important because what we do is we throw our lives away.

所以这非常重要，因为我们所做的就是放弃我们的生命。

People say that time flies and it doesn't.

人们说时间过得真快，但事实并非如此。

What happens is it goes by unaccounted.

发生的事情是它下落不明。

If you can only remember 89 days of 365 in a year, of course time flies.

如果一年365天你只能记住89天，当然时间过得真快。

Because you had 365 and you only remember 89.

因为你有 365 个，而你只记得 89 个。

It's going to feel like it went by quickly.

会感觉时间过得很快。

It's not going by quickly, you're just failing to account for each day.

一切都不会过得很快，你只是没有考虑好每一天。

And each day has something worth remembering.

每一天都有值得记住的事情。

Homework for Life is the acknowledgement that every single day should have something.

终身家庭作业是承认每一天都应该有一些事情。

Matthew Dicks: The prompt that I actually use for myself is this.

Matthew Dicks：我自己实际使用的提示是这样的。

I say, if someone kidnapped my family and said, "You can't have them back until you stand on a stage and tell a story about something that happened today, what would you tell?" That was what I would think in my head every night, and then I would write it down.

我说，如果有人绑架了我的家人，然后说：“除非你站在舞台上讲述今天发生的事情，否则你无法让他们回来，你会说什么？”这就是我每天晚上脑子里想的事情，然后我会把它写下来。

To be honest, nowadays, I'm not sitting down at the end of the day and writing them all down.

老实说，现在我不会在一天结束时坐下来把它们全部写下来。

I'm recording them as the day goes on.

随着时间的推移，我正在记录它们。

My laptop is around me, my phone is around me.

我的笔记本电脑在我身边，我的手机在我身边。

When I hear something.

当我听到某事时。

My son says a bit of dialogue I can't believe he just said.

我儿子说了一些对话，我简直不敢相信他刚才说的话。

I see something for the first time or the last time, or a stray thought enters my mind.

我第一次或最后一次看到某件事，或者一个杂念进入我的脑海。

I have a new thought that I had not occurred before, all of those become moments for Homework for Life.

我有了一个以前没有出现过的新想法，所有这些都成为了我一生的家庭作业的时刻。

Matthew Dicks: Not everyone becomes a story.

马修·迪克斯：并不是每个人都会成为故事。

I did some analysis on this too.

我对此也做了一些分析。

About 10% of the things that I write down ultimately either become a story or a part of a story, but the other 90% it's just as valuable.

我写下的大约 10% 的东西最终要么成为一个故事，要么成为故事的一部分，但另外 90% 的东西也同样有价值。

Because I'm holding onto my days.

因为我正在坚持我的日子。

And the other amazing thing that happens is once you start doing this, you'll crack open.

另一件令人惊奇的事情是，一旦你开始这样做，你就会裂开。

And all of the stories that you've left from the past, the ones you've forgotten, they'll start to rise up.

所有你过去留下的故事，那些你已经忘记的故事，它们都会开始浮现。

They'll bubble up.

它们会冒泡。

And I include those in my Homework for Life too as memories.

我也将这些作为回忆纳入我的终身作业中。

Because once you start looking through the lens of storytelling, you see something like you see Eileen find confidence, and suddenly your brain connects to other students or moments in your life or moments in your children's life, where confidence was an issue and you think, oh, that's right.

因为一旦你开始通过讲故事的镜头来看，你会看到像艾琳找到自信一样的东西，突然你的大脑与其他学生或你生活中的时刻或你孩子生活中的时刻连接起来，在这些时刻信心是一个问题，你会想，哦，这是对的。

It's just like that kid.

就像那个孩子一样。

Matthew Dicks: And now I have another moment that I've recovered from the past.

马修·迪克斯：现在我又有了一个从过去中恢复过来的时刻。

A day has returned to me.

我又回到了一天。

It enters my Homework for Life, and suddenly I have more stories than I ever have time to tell.

它进入了我的终生家庭作业，突然间我的故事比我有时间讲述的还要多。

And it's not just me.

不仅仅是我。

Like I said, thousands of people all over the world, my own children and my students do Homework for Life.

就像我说的，世界各地有成千上万的人，包括我自己的孩子和我的学生，他们终生做家庭作业。

And all of them will tell you it's the most valuable thing that you can do.

他们所有人都会告诉你这是你能做的最有价值的事情。

Lenny: And I think you touched on this.

莱尼：我认为你谈到了这一点。

It's not just to collect a bunch of stories.

这不仅仅是收集一堆故事。

There's a therapeutic element to this too, that you talk about.

你谈到的这也有一个治疗因素。

Matthew Dicks: Yeah.

马修·迪克斯：是的。

Absolutely.

绝对的。

Many therapeutic elements.

许多治疗元素。

First is you're recovering your time and slowing time down, which is beautiful.

首先，你正在恢复你的时间并放慢时间，这是美丽的。

My kids are 14 and 11.

我的孩子分别是 14 岁和 11 岁。

Thank goodness I started Homework for Life just about when Clara was first born.

谢天谢地，我在克拉拉出生的时候就开始了终身家庭作业。

Because they feel 14 and 11 to me.

因为他们给我的感觉是14和11。

They don't feel like they were just born yesterday, which for a lot of parents, they do.

他们并不觉得自己是昨天才出生的，而对于很多父母来说，他们确实是这样。

Lots of parents say things like, "Oh, my God, you're not going to believe what my kids said.

许多父母会说这样的话：“哦，天啊，你不会相信我的孩子们说的话。

I got to write it down." But nobody writes it down.

我必须把它写下来。”但没有人写下来。

You're not going to believe what my kid said is in Homework for Life for me.

你不会相信我的孩子在我的《终身家庭作业》中所说的话。

So I'm holding onto the moments, stretching out time.

所以我抓住时机，延长时间。

You also start to do things like you start to see patterns in your life that you don't realize, unless you really think about your life.

你也会开始做一些事情，比如你开始看到你没有意识到的生活模式，除非你真正思考你的生活。

And I think you should.

我认为你应该这样做。

Storytellers tend to be slightly self-centered in a positive way, meaning we afford ourselves time to think about ourselves.

讲故事的人往往会以积极的方式稍微以自我为中心，这意味着我们给自己时间思考自己。

Matthew Dicks: You start to see patterns if you start doing this.

马修·迪克斯：如果你开始这样做，你就会开始看到模式。

So I think what I talk about in my book is I always tell people, my wife and I never fight.

所以我认为我在书中谈论的是我总是告诉人们，我和我的妻子从不吵架。

We've never raised our voices to each other.

我们从来没有对彼此提高过声音。

We really don't ever argue.

我们真的从不争论。

But I noticed in my Homework for Life a moment when she had asked me to put in the air conditioners before I had central air in the house, and I hated it.

但我在《终身作业》中注意到，有一次她要求我在家里安装中央空调之前先装空调，我讨厌这样。

I hated it because we agreed to never buy a house without central air.

我讨厌它，因为我们同意永远不会买没有中央空调的房子。

And every year the air conditioners somehow get heavier.

而且每年空调都会变得更重。

I don't understand the physics behind it, but every year it's worse.

我不明白其背后的物理原理，但情况一年比一年糟糕。

Matthew Dicks: And she always asks on the 98 degree day, "Hey, can you put the air conditioners in?" And there was a day when I was like, "No, I'm not going to do it.

马修·迪克斯：她总是在 98 度的日子里问：“嘿，你能把空调打开吗？”有一天我想，“不，我不会这样做。

It's really hot." And she was like, "Okay, no problem." And then 10 minutes later, I'm in the basement pulling them out, complaining, grumbling, arguing.

真的很热。”她说：“好吧，没问题。”十分钟后，我在地下室把他们拉出来，抱怨、发牢骚、争论。

Only to myself banging them on purpose so she can hear.

只有我自己故意敲打它们，这样她才能听到。

She's like, "What's going on?" I'm like, "I'm putting in the air conditioners." So that becomes a Homework for Life moment.

她说：“发生了什么事？”我说：“我要开空调了。”所以这成为了一生的家庭作业时刻。

Matthew Dicks: And then a month later, she asks me to mow the lawn, on a 98 degree day.

马修·迪克斯：一个月后，她让我在 98 度的一天修剪草坪。

And I said, "I'm not going to mow the lawn.

我说：“我不会去修剪草坪。

I'm busy and it's really hot." And she goes, "Okay, no problem.

我很忙，而且天气真的很热。”她说：“好吧，没问题。

Maybe tomorrow." And then I sit for a while and I stew.

也许明天。”然后我坐下来炖一会儿。

And then I'm mowing the lawn, but I'm doing it aggressively.

然后我就开始修剪草坪，但我做得很积极。

I'm running and just angrily mowing the lawn.

我边跑边愤怒地修剪草坪。

And when I see these patterns, I suddenly go, "Oh, I do fight with my wife, on my own." I fight in a way that she's not aware I'm doing it.

当我看到这些模式时，我突然想到，“哦，我确实和我的妻子打架，独自一人。”我以一种她不知道我在这样做的方式进行斗争。

I yell at her through chores and she's not aware that it's even happening.

我在做家务时对她大喊大叫，而她甚至没有意识到这一切正在发生。

That becomes a story that couples love.

这成为情侣们喜爱的故事。

They think it's hilarious.

他们认为这很搞笑。

Matthew Dicks: You also start to see stories that you would've never seen.

马修·迪克斯：你也会开始看到你从未见过的故事。

So it was a day last May when the neighbors to my left and the neighbors to my right came over to the house and had a cookout, the first one of the year.

所以去年五月的一天，我左边的邻居和我右边的邻居来到我家进行野餐，这是今年的第一次。

And that was a day when I didn't find anything in the day.

那一天我什么也没找到。

I had one moment, which is very unusual for me.

我有过这样的时刻，这对我来说很不寻常。

And I remember thinking, "Really, all you got is you had a cookout with the neighbors, that's the best you got?" It's not even really a story.

我记得我当时想，“真的，你所得到的只是和邻居一起野餐，这就是你所得到的最好的了吗？”这甚至不是一个真正的故事。

But it was the best I had so I wrote it down and I moved on.

但这是我拥有的最好的，所以我把它写下来然后继续前进。

About four months later, the neighbors to our left announced they were getting divorced.

大约四个月后，我们左边的邻居宣布他们要离婚。

It devastated us.

它摧毁了我们。

Because they have two kids.

因为他们有两个孩子。

We've got this big communal backyard with the three houses.

我们有一个很大的公共后院，里面有三栋房子。

Three boys to the right, two kids to the left, friends.

三个男孩在右边，两个孩子在左边，朋友们。

Couldn't believe it that they're getting divorced.

简直不敢相信他们要离婚。

Known each other since high school.

从高中就认识了。

We just never saw it coming.

我们只是从未预见到它的到来。

Matthew Dicks: One day later, neighbors to the right announced they're getting divorced.

马修·迪克斯：一天后，右边的邻居宣布他们要离婚。

Left and right within a day of each other.

左、右相隔一天之内。

And it becomes a story about how you never understand what's going on in a marriage unless you're in that house.

它变成了一个关于除非你在那所房子里否则你永远无法理解婚姻中发生的事情的故事。

But I don't have that moment in May when there were three couples on a porch, one of them was happy.

但我在五月没有这样的时刻，三对夫妇站在门廊上，其中一对很高兴。

I thought all three were happy.

我以为三个人都很幸福。

I don't get that moment unless I'm doing Homework for Life, and I write it down, and now I see a trajectory of a story.

除非我正在做终身作业，否则我不会得到那个时刻，然后我把它写下来，现在我看到了一个故事的轨迹。

I have the opposite.

我有相反的情况。

Now I actually have an opposite moment which is I'm serving hot dogs to people I think are happy, but they're only pretending to be happy for our sake.

现在我实际上有一个相反的时刻，那就是我正在为我认为快乐的人提供热狗，但他们只是为了我们而假装快乐。

And then they're returning to their homes, to discord and eventually to disillusion of a marriage.

然后他们回到家中，产生不和，最终导致婚姻幻灭。

So Homework for Life gives you all of that that you don't normally have in life because we tend to live day by day, and we leave that last day behind.

因此，《终身家庭作业》为您提供了生活中通常没有的所有内容，因为我们倾向于日复一日地生活，而我们却把最后一天抛在了身后。

Lenny: I got tingles listening to that story.

莱尼：听那个故事我感到一阵刺痛。

For someone that's now motivated to try this.

对于现在有动力尝试这个的人。

I know there's a template that we'll link to in the show notes where you give people, it's very simple, but I think seeing it will be helpful.

我知道有一个模板，我们将在您提供给人们的演出笔记中链接到该模板，它非常简单，但我认为看到它会有所帮助。

But what's something someone could do tonight to start on this process and maybe set a habit to do?

但是今晚人们可以做些什么来开始这个过程并可能养成一个习惯呢？

How do you actually go about doing this?

你实际上是如何去做这件事的？

Matthew Dicks: Well, they have to start Homework for Life.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，他们必须开始终身作业。

And I have a TED talk about it that I go on for 17 minutes about.

我在 TED 上做了一个 17 分钟的演讲。

So I suggest watching it because you'll just get more than what I just told you and I think that's important.

所以我建议观看它，因为你会得到比我刚才告诉你的更多的东西，我认为这很重要。

And you have to decide to do it every single day, even on the day when the best you have is a cookout.

你必须决定每天都这样做，即使是在你最好的日子就是野餐的那一天。

If that's all you got, that's what you got, and you write it down.

如果这就是你所拥有的，那就是你所拥有的，然后你把它写下来。

You have to have some faith too, that it's going to happen over time.

你也必须有一些信念，随着时间的推移，这将会发生。

Remember, I started with 1.8 and now I'm up to 7.6.

请记住，我从 1.8 开始，现在升级到 7.6。

And that's over more than 12 years it takes for me to make that jump.

我花了 12 年多的时间才实现这一飞跃。

Matthew Dicks: So in the beginning, you're not going to be very good at it.

马修·迪克斯：所以一开始，你不会很擅长。

You're not going to see the right things, and that's just the way it is.

你不会看到正确的事情，事情就是这样。

If I go back to my original Homework for Life, I see myself looking for stories.

如果我回到最初的终身作业，我会发现自己在寻找故事。

And you're not really looking for stories.

而且你并不是真的在寻找故事。

You're just looking for moments that touch your heart, touch your mind.

你只是在寻找触动你的心、触动你的思想的时刻。

That's all you're really hoping for.

这就是你真正所希望的。

And some of those will become stories.

其中一些将成为故事。

So you've got to start Homework for Life right away.

所以你必须立即开始终身作业。

And then if you can just find some people who are willing to listen and begin telling some stories, that's really helpful because most people are unwilling to listen.

然后，如果你能找到一些愿意倾听的人并开始讲述一些故事，这确实很有帮助，因为大多数人不愿意倾听。

There's not a lot of good listeners in the world.

世界上好的听众并不多。

Everyone says they're a great listener, but active listening is a skill that most people do not possess in any way whatsoever.

每个人都说自己是一位出色的倾听者，但积极倾听是大多数人都不具备的一项技能。

But if you find people who are willing to listen, you got to start telling stories.

但如果你找到愿意倾听的人，你就必须开始讲故事。

You got to start practicing in meaningful ways.

你必须开始以有意义的方式练习。

And your first stories aren't going to be great.

你的第一个故事不会很棒。

But the good news is most people's stories are terrible.

但好消息是大多数人的故事都很糟糕。

Most storytelling in the world is not very good.

世界上大多数故事讲得都不是很好。

So if you put a little thought into what you're about to say, you're going to be better.

因此，如果你稍微思考一下你要说的话，你就会做得更好。

Because storytelling is not about facility with the language or your vocabulary.

因为讲故事并不在于语言或词汇的熟练程度。

It's all about decision-making.

这都是关于决策的。

That's all it is.

仅此而已。

Matthew Dicks: Storytellers are people who think before they speak.

马修·迪克斯：讲故事的人是在说话之前先思考的人。

They make strategical tactical decisions before they speak.

他们在说话之前就做出战略战术决策。

And ultimately, they make enough good decisions to entertain people.

最终，他们做出足够好的决定来娱乐人们。

Ultimately, no matter what you're doing, whether I am teaching a fifth grader how to behave better, or presenting a new product for a large company, or helping someone deliver an all hands, the first and most important thing you have to be is entertaining.

最终，无论你在做什么，无论我是在教五年级学生如何表现得更好，还是在为一家大公司展示新产品，或者帮助某人全力以赴，你首先要做的也是最重要的事情就是娱乐。

You have to entertain or people will not listen to you.

你必须娱乐别人，否则人们不会听你的。

So you got to practice, you got to get reps.

所以你必须练习，你必须得到代表。

Lenny: I want to talk about public speaking skills, but just to close the loop on that.

莱尼：我想谈谈公开演讲技巧，但只是为了结束这个循环。

So if someone was trying to do this Homework for Life exercises, the idea, would you recommend at night before they go to sleep, open up Google Sheets on their phone and just add something?

因此，如果有人尝试做这个“人生家庭作业”练习，你会建议他们在晚上睡觉前打开手机上的 Google 表格并添加一些内容吗？

Is there something else you'd recommend?

您还有其他推荐吗？

Matthew Dicks: No. Yeah.

马修·迪克斯：不，是的。

That's what I would do.

这就是我会做的。

Although ideally, as you go through...

尽管理想情况下，当你经历...

Matthew Dicks: No. Yeah, that's what I would do.

马修·迪克斯：不。是的，我就是这么做的。

Although ideally, as you go through the day, things get forgotten quickly.

尽管理想情况下，当你度过这一天时，事情很快就会被忘记。

Your son says something hilarious and by the end of the night you can't remember what it was.

你儿子说了一些搞笑的话，但到了晚上你就记不起那是什么了。

So if you can start sort of tracking it through the day a little bit, maybe you make it a habit where at lunchtime you're going to ask yourself what happened that morning?

因此，如果您可以开始稍微跟踪一天的情况，也许您会养成一种习惯，在午餐时间问自己那天早上发生了什么事？

And when you get home from work, you're going to say what happened in the afternoon?

当你下班回家时，你会说下午发生了什么吗？

And then in the evening you're going to say what happened since then?

然后晚上你会说从那以后发生了什么？

And then sort of take a whole view of the day and then be open to those memories, allow them to come back.

然后全面回顾这一天，然后对那些记忆持开放态度，让它们回来。

I record them in my Homework for Life as memory, sort of a capital M-E-M-O-R-Y.

我把它们记录在我的终身作业中作为记忆，有点像大写的 M-E-M-O-R-Y。

Because what happens is you start to build up so many homework for life memories that you get confused.

因为发生的事情是你开始为生活记忆做太多的作业，以至于你感到困惑。

Matthew Dicks: You're like, what?

马修·迪克斯：你说，什么？

When did I see a deer?

我什么时候看到鹿了？

And then I go, oh, that's a story from when I was 14.

然后我就想，哦，这是我 14 岁时的故事。

But you get confused because it's sitting on when you're 38 years old.

但你会感到困惑，因为它在你 38 岁的时候仍然存在。

So you mark them as memories.

所以你把它们标记为回忆。

You hold onto them, you put them into spreadsheets because eventually you're going to want to move that data around and keep track of it in some meaningful way.

您保留它们，将它们放入电子表格中，因为最终您会想要移动这些数据并以某种有意义的方式跟踪它。

But yeah, get started today because if you don't, you will lose today.

但是，是的，今天就开始吧，因为如果你不这样做，你今天就会失败。

Every day that you don't do homework for life is a day that is going to be lost to you forever.

你一生中不做作业的每一天都将是你永远失去的一天。

Lenny: And just very practically, you recommend like Google Sheets, I imagine is what you use?

Lenny：非常实用，您推荐 Google Sheets，我想您使用的就是这个？

Matthew Dicks: I actually use old-fashioned Excel, but yes, Google Sheets would work too, because I started so long ago, right, Excel was the thing I used, and Excel is the thing I still use.

Matthew Dicks：我实际上使用老式的 Excel，但是，是的，Google Sheets 也可以，因为我很久以前就开始使用了，对吧，Excel 是我使用的东西，Excel 是我仍然使用的东西。

I mean, it's backed up in 19 places because it's the most precious thing I have other than my wife and children, cats.

我的意思是，它备份在 19 个地方，因为它是我除了我的妻子和孩子、猫之外最珍贵的东西。

But yeah, that's what I would suggest to use.

但是，是的，这就是我建议使用的。

Lenny: Awesome.

莱尼：太棒了。

Okay.

好的。

Just a couple more questions before our very exciting lightning round.

在我们非常激动人心的闪电回合之前还有几个问题。

In your book, you say that you've only been nervous twice on stage giving a story.

在你的书中，你说你只在舞台上讲故事时紧张过两次。

Most people, I don't know, is that .

大多数人，我不知道，是这样的。

Matthew Dicks: I can remember the two times.

马修·迪克斯：我记得有两次。

It was yeah, it was PTSD related and Seth Meyers cost of ticket related.

是的，这与创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）有关，也与赛斯·迈耶斯（Seth Meyers）的门票费用有关。

Lenny: Okay.

莱尼：好的。

So most people are not like you.

所以大多数人都不像你。

Most people are nervous, including me, every single time I get on stage, tell a story.

大多数人都很紧张，包括我，每次上台讲故事的时候。

What advice do you give people to help them get better with the nerves of getting on stage and telling a story?

您给人们什么建议来帮助他们缓解上台讲故事的紧张感？

Classically, it's the thing people fear most in life.

传统上，这是人们生活中最害怕的事情。

Matthew Dicks: Well, the first thing you have to understand is that 98% of your nervousness is actually before you begin speaking.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，你首先要明白的是，你 98% 的紧张实际上是在你开始演讲之前。

Once you begin speaking, almost all of your nervousness falls away, and that is the experience of most people.

一旦你开始演讲，你几乎所有的紧张感都会消失，这是大多数人的经历。

So what you're really suffering is from pre-talk nervousness.

所以你真正感到痛苦的是演讲前的紧张。

And when you find that out, that's kind of a relief because if you do it enough.

当你发现这一点时，你就会松一口气，因为如果你做得足够多的话。

Someone just spoke in the Netherlands, and today I'm waiting to find out how it went.

刚刚有人在荷兰发表了讲话，今天我正在等待了解进展情况。

He spoke it for the Florida State Legislature, same topic, and he was really nervous about going into today.

他在佛罗里达州议会发表了同样的话题，他对今天的发言感到非常紧张。

He was also really nervous speaking to a bunch of scientists in the Netherlands.

与荷兰的一群科学家交谈时，他也非常紧张。

But I told him, I said, "After you began speaking in the Netherlands, once the talk began, how nervous were you?" And he said, "Oh, actually, when I began speaking, I was pretty okay.

但我告诉他，我说，“当你开始在荷兰演讲之后，一旦演讲开始，你有多紧张？”他说：“哦，实际上，当我开始讲话时，我还不错。

I was incredibly nervous before the talk." And I said, "Well, that makes sense."

在演讲之前我非常紧张。”我说：“嗯，这是有道理的。”

Matthew Dicks: So if you own the fact or you believe the fact that, oh, most of my nervousness comes before the talk, but once I start speaking, I'm pretty good.

马修·迪克斯：所以，如果你承认这个事实，或者你相信这个事实，哦，我的大部分紧张感都出现在演讲之前，但一旦我开始演讲，我就很好了。

That's really relieving for a lot of people because what we imagine is that we're nervous while we're talking, which is often not the case, particularly if you're kind of prepared, if you know what you're talking about.

这对很多人来说确实是一种解脱，因为我们想象的是我们在谈话时会感到紧张，但事实往往并非如此，特别是如果你做好了准备，如果你知道自己在说什么。

So be aware that most of your nervousness happens before you speak, and that's a normal thing, and you're just going to have to accept that until some day when perhaps it starts to go away through repetition, through continued performance on a stage.

所以要注意，你的大部分紧张感都发生在你说话之前，这是很正常的事情，你必须接受这一点，直到有一天，也许它会通过重复、通过在舞台上的持续表演而开始消失。

For some people, they're always nervous.

对于有些人来说，他们总是很紧张。

I was performing with, I won't say her name, but someone who you have watched on television before, and we were both backstage and I was chatting up the room and she finally said to me, this very famous person, "Would you stop talking?

我和我一起表演，我不会说她的名字，但是你以前在电视上看过的一个人，我们都在后台，我在房间里聊天，她最后对我，这个非常有名的人说，“你能停止说话吗？

Because the rest of us are trying to keep information in our head and stay calm." I'm a terrible person backstage because I'm always calm, I never care.

因为我们其他人都在努力将信息记在脑子里并保持冷静。”我在后台是一个很糟糕的人，因为我总是很冷静，我从不关心。

Matthew Dicks: So I have to sort of sequester myself from these people because I torture them.

马修·迪克斯：所以我必须将自己与这些人隔离开来，因为我折磨他们。

But once she began speaking, all of her nerves fell away.

但当她开口说话时，她所有的紧张都消失了。

So that's a good thing to know.

所以这是一件好事。

The other thing to know that's really great is everyone's nervous, except for me.

另一件很棒的事是每个人都很紧张，除了我。

I'm the only monster in the world.

我是世界上唯一的怪物。

So if you're feeling nervous, you're just like everyone else, including a very famous person who you see on TV all the time.

因此，如果您感到紧张，那么您就像其他人一样，包括您经常在电视上看到的非常著名的人物。

That person was nervous, you're nervous, you're in the same camp, right, you're in the same boat.

那个人紧张，你也紧张，你们是同一个阵营的，对吧，你们是同一条船的。

And then preparation is going to reduce your level of nervousness.

然后准备工作就会减少你的紧张程度。

One of the things that I tell people to do that is most helpful is it's good to practice your talk or practice your pitch, whatever you're doing, but one of the best ways to prepare for it is to record it and listen to it.

我告诉人们做的最有帮助的事情之一是练习你的演讲或练习你的音调，无论你在做什么，但最好的准备方法之一就是录制它并聆听它。

Matthew Dicks: Listen to it passively, listen to it while your grocery shopping, listen to it while you're folding laundry, doing the dishes.

马修·迪克斯：被动地听，在杂货店购物时听，在叠衣服、洗碗时听。

What happens is, I really believe this, as you start to listen to it over and over again, it just sort of seeps into your soul, and so it becomes part of you.

发生的情况是，我真的相信这一点，当你开始一遍又一遍地听它时，它就会渗入你的灵魂，因此它成为你的一部分。

I have done this technique.

我已经完成了这个技术。

I've told a story a decade ago, haven't told it since.

十年前我讲过一个故事，此后就再也没有讲过。

Someone hears it on YouTube and says, "Hey, can you tell that story at our event?" I say, "Yes".

有人在 YouTube 上听到这个故事并说道：“嘿，你能在我们的活动中讲一下这个故事吗？”我说：“是的”。

I can listen to it once and it comes right out again because I allowed it to sort of sink into my memory in the same way that When Harry Met Sally has sunk into your wife's memory.

我可以听一次，然后它就会再次出现，因为我让它融入了我的记忆，就像《当哈利遇见莎莉》融入了你妻子的记忆一样。

She can replay that movie in her mind probably perfectly.

她或许可以在脑海中完美地回放那部电影。

If you listen to your talk enough, you will get to the point where you can retell it with ease.

如果你听得足够多，你就会达到可以轻松复述的程度。

Matthew Dicks: The other thing you can do is some active listening with it.

马修·迪克斯：你可以做的另一件事是积极倾听。

Most people don't forget their talk.

大多数人不会忘记他们的谈话。

They forget the transitions in their talk.

他们忘记了谈话中的过渡。

So I'm talking about this, but then I got to transition to this, then I got to transition to this.

所以我正在谈论这个，但后来我必须过渡到这个，然后我必须过渡到这个。

So when I'm listening to my stories or a talk that I'm going to give, I'm playing a game with myself.

所以当我听我的故事或我要发表的演讲时，我是在和自己玩一个游戏。

Matthew Dicks: So I'm listening and I go, oh, okay, this is closing out and the next thing I have to talk about is this, and then the next thing I have to talk about is this.

马修·迪克斯：所以我在听，然后我说，哦，好吧，这就是结束，我接下来要谈的事情就是这个，然后我要谈的下一件事就是这个。

And if I don't know what I'm going to, if I'm like, Ooh, what am I going to next?

如果我不知道我要做什么，如果我想，哦，下一步我要做什么？

That's where I go, oh, I got to create a mnemonic there.

这就是我要去的地方，哦，我必须在那里创建一个助记符。

I got to create a bit of memorization there to train myself for that transition.

我必须在那里创建一些记忆来训练自己以适应这种转变。

Once you're in a new section of a talk, even if you're following it up a little, you're going to be okay because you're like, oh, I got to talk about the data related to the this or the that.

一旦你进入演讲的新部分，即使你稍微跟进一下，你也会没事的，因为你会想，哦，我必须谈论与这个或那个相关的数据。

And if it doesn't come out perfectly, you still know what you're talking about.

即使结果不完美，你仍然知道自己在说什么。

Matthew Dicks: But what happens when you're done with the data related to this or that, you go, ah damn, what am I supposed to do next?

马修·迪克斯：但是当你处理完与这个或那个相关的数据后会发生什么，你会想，啊该死，我下一步应该做什么？

Right.

正确的。

So we're working on building those transitions.

因此，我们正在努力构建这些过渡。

Before a talk or before a story let's say I will do something like I'm going to start in the car and then I'm going to get out into the store, and then I'm going to head out to the parking lot, and then I'm going to be in the park, and then it's three weeks later.

在演讲或故事之前，假设我会做一些事情，比如我要从车里开始，然后我要去商店，然后我要去停车场，然后我要去公园，然后是三周后。

I don't tell myself the story.

我不会告诉自己这个故事。

I'm just bouncing between the scenes because once I know the scenes and I know, okay, there's seven scenes, and here they are, and here's the transitions.

我只是在场景之间跳跃，因为一旦我了解了场景，我就知道，好吧，有七个场景，它们就在这里，这是过渡。

Again, if I follow up each scene, that's okay because I'm going to get the information out.

再说一遍，如果我跟踪每个场景，那也没关系，因为我会把信息传达出去。

It might not come out as perfectly as I hoped.

结果可能不会像我希望的那么完美。

You also, if you can avoid memorizing, that'll save you a ton of suffering because memorizers, they're the most tortured souls in the world.

你也一样，如果你能避免记忆，那会为你省去很多痛苦，因为记忆者，他们是世界上最受折磨的灵魂。

So avoid that if all possible.

因此，如果可能的话，请避免这种情况。

Remember your talk without memorizing your talk.

记住你的演讲，而不是记住你的演讲。

Lenny: Reminds me, a friend of mine gave a TED Talk and he shared that they give you this advice that people are different kind of learners.

莱尼：提醒我了，我的一个朋友做了一次 TED 演讲，他分享说他们给你这样的建议：人们是不同类型的学习者。

Some are audio learners, some are visual.

有些是音频学习者，有些是视觉学习者。

So if you're like an audio learner, listening to it is the most helpful.

因此，如果您是音频学习者，听它是最有帮助的。

Some it's seeing the script.

有些是看剧本。

Matthew Dicks: And I'm very much an auditory learner.

马修·迪克斯：我是一个听觉学习者。

The other thing though about listening to it is you just get sick of practicing.

听它的另一件事是你会厌倦练习。

It gets so frustrating to practice.

练习起来真是令人沮丧。

So at some point you don't want to say it anymore.

所以到了某个时候你就不想再说了。

So rather than saying it, you start to listen to it.

因此，与其说出来，不如开始听。

You listen to yourself, tell a story about yourself to yourself, which is the most narcissistic thing you could probably do in the world.

你倾听自己的声音，给自己讲一个关于自己的故事，这可能是世界上你能做的最自恋的事情。

But even if you're a visual learner, because it's so annoying to practice eventually, I think listening to it can be really helpful.

但即使你是一个视觉学习者，因为最终练习起来很烦人，我认为听它真的很有帮助。

Lenny: Okay.

莱尼：好的。

Last question is I want to talk about, I mentioned I bring this up, is the power of saying yes, something that you recommend people say yes to stuff versus no. It reminds me, David Sedaris in a, I don't know, Dave Masterclass video or something, said the same thing.

最后一个问题是我想谈谈，我提到过我提出这个问题，是说“是”的力量，你建议人们对某件事说“是”而不是“不”。这让我想起，大卫·塞达里斯（David Sedaris）在戴夫大师班视频或其他什么东西中说过同样的话。

He's just like, "I just say yes to everything because it creates great stories."

他就像是，“我对一切都说‘是’，因为它创造了很棒的故事。”

Lenny: Yeah, it's in his Masterclass talk,-

莱尼：是的，这是在他的大师班演讲中，-

Matthew Dicks: And I just finished Sedaris's Happy-Go-Lucky, which is a great book.

马修·迪克斯：我刚刚读完塞达里斯的《无忧无虑》，这是一本很棒的书。

I love him.

我爱他。

Lenny: Yeah, yeah.

莱尼：是啊，是啊。

So I'd love to hear your advice here for people just to give them a little bit of a final takeaway.

所以我很想听听你对人们的建议，只是为了给他们一些最后的收获。

Matthew Dicks: Sure.

马修·迪克斯：当然。

So I'm going to disagree with Sedaris a little bit.

所以我有点不同意 Sedaris 的观点。

Nah, I won't disagree with him by saying, yes, you do end up with some great stories, but that's not the purpose of the yes.

不，我不会不同意他的说法，是的，你最终确实会得到一些很棒的故事，但这不是“是”的目的。

There's actually a book, a storytelling book in the world that I'm not going to mention, and it talks about how to find great stories and it says, go do crazy things and you'll have great stories.

实际上世界上有一本书，一本讲故事的书，我不会提及，它谈到如何找到伟大的故事，它说，去做疯狂的事情，你就会有伟大的故事。

I disagree.

我不同意。

Fundamentally first, that's a foolish way to live your life.

首先，从根本上来说，这是一种愚蠢的生活方式。

And also some of the best stories I tell, I think the best stories I tell are about tiny moments in our lives where nothing extraordinary happens except everything in our head, right?

还有我讲的一些最好的故事，我认为我讲的最好的故事都是关于我们生活中的微小时刻，除了我们脑海中的一切之外，没有什么特别的事情发生，对吗？

Most stories that I tell, if you had actually witness the moment of transformation or realization, you would've never known it was happening because most things that happen to us happen in our heads.

我讲的大多数故事，如果你真的见证了转变或实现的时刻，你永远不会知道它正在发生，因为发生在我们身上的大多数事情都发生在我们的脑海中。

Matthew Dicks: It's not while we're hanging from a cliff, right, for our dear life that we suddenly have a revelation.

马修·迪克斯：并不是当我们挂在悬崖上时，为了我们亲爱的生命，我们突然得到了启示。

It's usually like we're walking across a parking lot and suddenly something hits us that's been building up for three weeks, but now it's hit us walking across the parking lot.

通常就像我们正走过一个停车场，突然有什么东西袭击了我们，这种事情已经持续了三周，但现在它袭击了我们穿过停车场。

So the reason we say yes to everything is if you don't say yes, what you're essentially saying is, I am so presumptuous that I understand what's on the other side of that door already even though I've never set foot beyond that door.

因此，我们对一切都说“是”的原因是，如果你不说“是”，那么你本质上是在说，我太自以为是了，以至于我已经了解那扇门的另一边是什么，尽管我从未跨过那扇门。

Right.

正确的。

I just know so much about the world that I know that what's behind that door is not for me.

我对这个世界了解得太多，以至于我知道那扇门后面的东西不适合我。

And I think that's foolish and arrogant and full of hubris that is not helping anyone in any way.

我认为这是愚蠢、傲慢和傲慢的，对任何人都没有帮助。

Matthew Dicks: So I say when someone offers you an opportunity, as crazy as it is, as ridiculous, as much as you don't want to do it, which many times in my life, the yeses that I have said about something I did not want to do, but forced myself to do it because of my belief system have resulted in the best and most extraordinary opportunities of my life.

马修·迪克斯：所以我说，当有人给你一个机会时，无论多么疯狂，多么荒谬，多么你不想做，在我的一生中很多次，我对我不想做的事情说“是”，但由于我的信仰体系强迫自己去做，这给我带来了我一生中最好和最非凡的机会。

A yes can always become a no, right?

是总是可以变成否，对吗？

Yes, I will try that.

是的，我会尝试一下。

I step through the door, I give it a try, I spend some time with it.

我走进门，尝试一下，花了一些时间。

I look around and I say, you know what?

我环顾四周说，你知道吗？

Not for me.

不适合我。

I step back through and I close the door.

我退后一步，关上门。

Matthew Dicks: But so often in life, people don't step through the door.

马修·迪克斯：但在生活中，人们常常不会迈出这扇门。

They're too afraid.

他们太害怕了。

They've already prejudged the opportunity in some way.

他们已经以某种方式预先判断了机会。

They fail to see the benefits of it or the value because they can't see that because they haven't gone through the door.

他们看不到它的好处或价值，因为他们看不到这一点，因为他们还没有跨过这扇门。

And then there's this ridiculous belief in the world that we're supposed to learn to say no so that we can sort of sequester our time and make it as meaningful as possible, which sounds really terrible to me.

然后世界上有一种荒谬的信念，我们应该学会说不，这样我们就可以隔离我们的时间并使其尽可能有意义，这对我来说真的很可怕。

The problem is you're going to be 100 someday, and when you're 100, no one is going to be asking you to step through any more doors, and at that point, you're going to look into the past and you're going to say, there were a lot of doors I didn't step through, right, and you're not going to be thinking, I'm so glad I didn't because I allowed myself to stay on the one path that I knew was going to be good for me.

问题是有一天你会满 100 岁，当你满 100 岁时，没有人会要求你再跨过任何一扇门，到那时，你会回顾过去，你会说，有很多扇门我没有跨过，对吧，你不会想，我很高兴我没有跨过，因为我允许自己留在一条我知道对自己有利的道路上。我。

Matthew Dicks: I just think that there is no one good path that's good for you.

马修·迪克斯：我只是认为没有一条好的道路对你有好处。

I think there's a multitude of paths, and they're all great, and a few of them are terrible, but you find out which ones are terrible by stepping through the door, deciding this is not for me and coming back.

我认为有很多条路，它们都很棒，但也有一些很糟糕，但是当你走进门，决定这不适合我，然后再回来时，你就会发现哪些是糟糕的。

So I think most of the time people say no because they're afraid.

所以我认为大多数时候人们拒绝是因为他们害怕。

And when someone asks me to do something that scares me, that is when I run to that thing as quickly as possible with all of my might as terrified as I am, because I know that it's the things that frighten me are often the things that are the best for me.

当有人要求我做一些令我害怕的事情时，我会尽我所能，尽快跑向那件事，因为我知道，让我害怕的事情往往对我来说是最好的。

Matthew Dicks: So we say yes with the acknowledgement that we can say no eventually, but a yes can lead to extraordinary things.

马修·迪克斯：所以我们说“是”，但承认我们最终可以说“不”，但“是”可能会带来非凡的事情。

And if you watch my TED Talk on saying yes, you'll see that yeses just lead to these extraordinary chains where you said yes to something you didn't want to say yes to, and suddenly it forced you to meet someone who you never would've met, who opened a different door for you.

如果你观看我关于说“是”的 TED 演讲，你会发现“是”只会导致这些非凡的链条，你对你不想说“是”的事情说“是”，突然间它迫使你去见一个你永远不会遇见的人，他为你打开了一扇不同的门。

And I mean, the causal chain that you can sort of create by saying an odd yes is extraordinary.

我的意思是，你可以通过说一个奇怪的“是”来创建因果链，这是非凡的。

Lenny: There was a quote I often come back to around this, which is, "The cave you fear contains the treasure you seek."

莱尼：围绕这个问题，我经常想起一句话，那就是“你害怕的洞穴里蕴藏着你寻找的宝藏。”

Matthew Dicks: Yeah, that's really good.

马修·迪克斯：是的，那真的很好。

I mean someone, I do standup now quite frequently.

我的意思是某人，我现在经常做站立表演。

I was just in the New York City Comedy Festival, and I do standup because six years ago, one of my buddies sent me an email saying, "Hey, we should do standup." And I replied to him and said, "No, I'm not interested in that." Hit reply.

我刚刚参加纽约市喜剧节，我会做单口喜剧，因为六年前，我的一个朋友给我发了一封电子邮件，说：“嘿，我们应该做单口喜剧。”我回答他说：“不，我对此不感兴趣。”点击回复。

And then I said to myself, "Whoa, why did you just do that?" And I said to myself, "I'm terrified of it." I can tell funny stories and if it's not funny, still telling a story, but if I'm doing standup and I'm not funny, I'm failing.

然后我对自己说：“哇，你为什么要这么做？”我对自己说：“我对此感到害怕。”我可以讲有趣的故事，如果不好笑，仍然讲故事，但如果我在做单口喜剧，但我不好笑，我就失败了。

And that's a terrifying thing.

这是一件可怕的事情。

Matthew Dicks: So I immediately sent a second email that said, "Okay, I'm in.

马修·迪克斯：所以我立即发送了第二封电子邮件，内容是：“好吧，我加入了。

When are we doing it?" I have now done standup many, many, many times.

我们什么时候做？”我现在已经做过很多很多次单口喜剧了。

That guy who initially asked me to do standup with him has never done it.

那个最初要求我和他一起做单口喜剧的人从来没有这样做过。

Not once in his life.

他一生中没有一次。

He wanted to do it, but he's afraid to step through the door.

他很想这样做，但他不敢迈出那扇门。

He's too afraid to do the thing that he challenged me to do that I now do on a regular basis because he challenged me and it's still the thing that probably scares me the most.

他太害怕了，不敢做他挑战我做的事情，而我现在经常这样做，因为他挑战了我，而这仍然是最让我害怕的事情。

And therefore, it's the thing that I'm relentlessly trying to do at all times because I know the things that scare me are the things that are the best for me.

因此，这是我一直不懈地尝试做的事情，因为我知道那些让我害怕的事情对我来说是最好的。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

Matt, is there anything else you want to share or leave listeners with before we get to your very exciting lightning round?

马特，在我们进入您非常激动人心的闪电回合之前，您还有什么想分享或留给听众的吗？

Matthew Dicks: No, I've said enough.

马修·迪克斯：不，我已经说得够多了。

They've heard enough from me.

他们已经听够我的消息了。

Let's go to the lightning round.

让我们进入闪电回合。

Lenny: We've covered a lot.

莱尼：我们已经讨论了很多。

Let's do it.

我们开始做吧。

Well, welcome to our very exciting lightning round.

好吧，欢迎来到我们非常激动人心的闪电回合。

Are you ready?

你准备好了吗？

Lenny: What are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people?

莱尼：你向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？

Matthew Dicks: Oh, so Nathaniel Philbrick's, Heart of the Sea, which is a non-fiction account of the whale ship Essex, which is the origin of the idea for Moby Dick.

马修·迪克斯：哦，纳撒尼尔·菲尔布里克的《海洋之心》是一部关于埃塞克斯号捕鲸船的非虚构作品，这也是《白鲸》的创意的起源。

The sinking of the Essex is what gave Melville the idea for Moby Dick.

埃塞克斯号的沉没给梅尔维尔带来了《白鲸》的灵感。

It's an extraordinary non-fiction account of the whale ship Essex.

这是一部关于埃塞克斯捕鲸船的非凡非虚构作品。

So that book for sure.

所以那本书肯定是。

If you have children, but even if you don't, because this is one of those children's books that reads well for adults as Kate DiCamillo's, The Tale of Despereaux.

如果你有孩子，但即使你没有，因为这是一本适合成年人阅读的儿童读物，就像凯特·迪卡米洛的《绝望的故事》一样。

It's a young adult novel.

这是一部青少年小说。

It'll take you two hours to read.

你需要两个小时才能读完。

I've read it 20 times.

我已经读了20遍了。

It is beautiful and extraordinary and fantastic.

它美丽、非凡、奇妙。

And then anything by Jessie Klein, she has two books.

然后是 Jessie Klein 的任何作品，她有两本书。

The only thing I don't like about her is she only has two books.

我唯一不喜欢她的是她只有两本书。

Actually, Sedaris too, Jessie Klein and David Sedaris.

事实上，塞达里斯也是如此，杰西·克莱因和大卫·塞达里斯。

Go read those two people too.

你也去读读这两个人吧。

I'm actually right now reading Bamford's book, the comedian, what's her first name?

实际上我现在正在读班福德的书，这位喜剧演员，她的名字是什么？

Bamford.

班福德。

I have Amy stuck in my head for Amy Sedaris.

我脑子里一直想着艾米·塞达里斯。

Maria Bamford's memoir right now I'm reading.

我现在正在读玛丽亚·班福德的回忆录。

Also, extraordinary.

而且，非凡。

So there's four that I am now recommending.

所以我现在推荐四个。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

What's a favorite recent movie or TV show that you've really enjoyed?

您最近最喜欢的电影或电视节目是什么？

Matthew Dicks: Well, for TV shows I enjoyed The Last of Us, which is based on a video game I've never played in my life.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，对于电视节目，我喜欢《最后生还者》，它是根据我一生中从未玩过的电子游戏改编的。

Pretty extraordinary as a TV show, both because filled with stakes.

作为一部电视节目来说非常非凡，因为充满了赌注。

Yeah, it's one of those shows they'll kill anyone at any time.

是的，这是他们随时都会杀死任何人的节目之一。

And so you're on the edge of your seat.

所以你已经坐立不安了。

No one is safe, which is fantastic.

没有人是安全的，这太棒了。

And then it has this beautiful bottle episode in the middle of the season, which is one of those things where you're in a zombie TV show, which oddly is unlike any zombie TV show I've ever seen.

然后它在季节中期有一个美丽的瓶子插曲，这是你在僵尸电视节目中的场景之一，奇怪的是它不同于我见过的任何僵尸电视节目。

And then there's a beautiful, fantastic episode.

然后就有了一个美丽而奇妙的插曲。

There's another one later on that's sort of very similar.

后来还有另一则类似的情况。

It's just great storytelling in a multitude of ways.

这在很多方面都是很棒的故事讲述。

It's great.

这很棒。

And for a movie, the Barbie movie is better than I ever expected it to be, quite frankly, and is proof positive that you can make stories about just about anything, and if they mean something, it's going to do extraordinarily well.

对于一部电影来说，芭比娃娃电影比我想象的要好，坦率地说，它证明了你可以制作几乎任何东西的故事，如果它们有意义，它就会做得非常好。

Lenny: My next question, I don't know if it makes sense to ask you, it's usually for product people and founders, but the question is, is do you have a favorite interview question you'd like to ask people when you're hiring?

莱尼：我的下一个问题，我不知道问你是否有意义，这通常是针对产品人员和创始人的，但问题是，你在招聘时最喜欢问别人的面试问题是什么？

Is there anything that comes up when I ask that?

当我问这个问题的时候，有什么事情发生吗？

Matthew Dicks: I guess I'll say it's the question I like to ask people most often maybe when I'm playing golf and things.

马修·迪克斯：我想我会说这是我在打高尔夫球之类的时候最喜欢问别人的问题。

I don't like to ask people what they do.

我不喜欢问别人做什么。

I like to ask, how did you get into the job you currently have?

我想问一下，你是怎么进入现在的工作的？

It's a dangerous question because occasionally I ask people it and they realize they're in their job for weird happenstances that don't relate to what they dreamed of doing.

这是一个危险的问题，因为有时我问人们这个问题，他们意识到他们的工作是为了发生与他们梦想做的事情无关的奇怪事件。

So I've had two people in my life cry while they answered the question because they suddenly understand, I'm doing this because my sister got me into the company 16 years ago.

所以我生命中有两个人在回答问题时哭了，因为他们突然明白，我这样做是因为我姐姐在 16 年前让我进入了这家公司。

And I go, "Oh, well that's great.

我说：“哦，那太好了。

Is that what you always wanted to do?" And they say, "No, it's actually still not what I want to do." But I do think that most of the time, how you get a job is more interesting than the actual job you're doing.

这就是你一直想做的事情吗？”他们说：“不，这实际上仍然不是我想做的。”但我确实认为，大多数时候，你如何找到工作比你正在做的实际工作更有趣。

The answer to that question is more interesting.

这个问题的答案更有趣。

Lenny: You have a favorite product you've recently discovered that you really like, whether it's an app or something you bought?

Lenny：您最近发现了您真正喜欢的最喜欢的产品，无论是应用程序还是您购买的东西？

Matthew Dicks: Well, if you celebrate Christmas for years, I have had an idea on how to design the best Christmas tree stand, and I finally said, someone must've done it.

马修·迪克斯：嗯，如果你庆祝圣诞节很多年了，我对如何设计最好的圣诞树架有一个想法，最后我说，一定有人做到了。

And they did.

他们做到了。

So I wrote it down for you.

所以我给你写下来了。

It's the Krinner tree stand.

这是克林纳树摊。

The Krinner Tree Genie is extraordinary.

克林纳树精灵非同寻常。

It's exactly what I would've designed if I had any ability to design it.

如果我有设计能力的话，这正是我会设计的。

It holds up the tree like none other.

它像其他树一样支撑着这棵树。

It takes two seconds.

需要两秒钟。

It is everything that the research told me it would do.

这就是研究告诉我的一切。

It's fantastic.

太棒了。

If you don't celebrate Christmas, I will tell you that a Power POD, which is a small, it attaches to your keychain and it will charge your phone twice and it just lives on your keychain.

如果你不庆祝圣诞节，我会告诉你，Power POD 很小，它连接到你的钥匙链上，可以为你的手机充电两次，它就住在你的钥匙链上。

So I am never a person who's going, oh no, I don't have any charge left.

所以我从来都不是一个会走的人，哦不，我没有任何费用了。

I have two charges on a Power POD, which lives on my keychain.

我的 Power POD 上有两次充电，它位于我的钥匙链上。

Matthew Dicks: You forget it's even there.

马修·迪克斯：你甚至忘记了它的存在。

And then one day you need it and it's fantastic.

然后有一天你需要它，它太棒了。

It's the best one.

这是最好的一个。

There's lots of versions of it.

它有很多版本。

The Power POD is the one you want.

Power POD 正是您想要的一款。

And then I just bought a hot dog toaster that toasts the hot dogs and the buns at the same time.

然后我就买了一个热狗烤面包机，可以同时烤热狗和面包。

It's called the Nostalgia Hot Dog Toaster.

它被称为怀旧热狗烤面包机。

It looks like it's from the 1950s.

看起来像是 20 世纪 50 年代的作品。

It's really beautiful actually.

其实真的很美。

It's the kind of thing you want to put on your counter because it looks fantastic.

这是一种你想放在柜台上的东西，因为它看起来棒极了。

My son and I love it because we like hot dogs and it'll put two buns and two hot dogs into the toaster.

我和我儿子喜欢它，因为我们喜欢热狗，它会将两个小面包和两个热狗放入烤面包机中。

You pull it down, three minutes later you have a hot dog ready to go.

你把它拉下来，三分钟后你就有了一个准备好的热狗。

You didn't dirty anything.

你没有弄脏任何东西。

It's not the best hot dog in the world, but hot dogs are pretty great no matter how they're cooked.

它不是世界上最好的热狗，但无论怎么煮，热狗都很棒。

So I fully support the Nostalgia Hot Dog Toaster.

所以我完全支持怀旧热狗烤面包机。

Lenny: These are amazing selections.

莱尼：这些都是令人惊叹的选择。

There's also call back to our nostalgia trick for getting to be funny.

这也让我们想起了我们为了变得有趣而怀旧的伎俩。

Matthew Dicks: Right.

马修·迪克斯：对。

That's true.

这是真的。

Yes.

是的。

Unintended, but I'll take credit for it.

无意中，但我会因此而获得荣誉。

Lenny: Do you have a favorite life motto that you often repeat to yourself, share with friends, either in work or in life?

Lenny：你有没有最喜欢的人生格言，无论是在工作还是生活中，你经常对自己重复、与朋友分享？

Matthew Dicks: Yeah, it changed my life really.

马修·迪克斯：是的，它确实改变了我的生活。

When I was in fourth grade, a teacher who, and I don't remember which teacher it was, which kills me.

当我四年级时，一位老师，我不记得是哪位老师，这让我很伤心。

I was having a bad day and I was being the way that most people are, frankly.

我今天过得很糟糕，坦率地说，我和大多数人一样。

And the teacher said to me, "Listen, a positive mental attitude will be your key to success." And I don't know why it's stuck in my head, but it did.

老师对我说：“听着，积极的心态将是你成功的关键。”我不知道为什么它会留在我的脑海里，但它确实存在。

I have said that to myself 100,000 times.

这句话我已经对自己说过十万遍了。

Matthew Dicks: And today there's one human being in the world who I think is more positive than me, one human being who I've met, who has more positivity than me.

马修·迪克斯：今天世界上有一个人比我更积极，我见过的一个人比我更积极。

I am a relentlessly positive almost, my wife says offensively positive person.

我的妻子说，我几乎是一个无情的积极乐观的人。

She's like, "You know what?

她就像是，“你知道吗？

Some days you can have a bad day." And I said, "I just don't.

有时候你可能会度过糟糕的一天。”我说：“我就是不这么认为。

Because a positive mental attitude is my key to success." And it's really the way I frame so much of my life, is looking to the positive, looking to the good.

因为积极的心态是我成功的关键。”这确实是我生活的大部分方式，就是寻找积极的一面，寻找美好的一面。

And I do it for people whenever I can.

只要有可能，我都会为人们做这件事。

And sometimes it frustrates people.

有时它会让人们感到沮丧。

But I really believe that most of life is the mindset that you bring to it.

但我确实相信，生活的大部分内容都是由你的心态决定的。

And for me in fourth grade, "A positive mental attitude will be your key to success," for some reason, hit me at the right moment in the right way and has stayed with me ever since.

对于四年级的我来说，“积极的心态将是你成功的关键”，出于某种原因，它在正确的时刻以正确的方式击中了我，并从那时起就一直伴随着我。

Lenny: What's interesting about that is it's not even like that well, cleverly put.

莱尼：有趣的是，它甚至不是那么好、巧妙地表达的。

It sounds like a fortune cookie,

听起来像幸运饼干，

Lenny: You get and you're like, yeah, sure.

莱尼：你明白了，你会说，是的，当然。

But I love that that really had so much impact on you, it stuck with you.

但我喜欢这对你产生了如此大的影响，它让你难以忘怀。

Matthew Dicks: Yeah, I think it was probably timing really.

马修·迪克斯：是的，我认为这可能真的是时机。

I think I was really having a hard time, and I know at the time two of my friends were not being my friend anymore, and they were my only two friends sort of at the time.

我想我真的很难过，我知道当时我的两个朋友不再是我的朋友了，他们是我当时唯一的两个朋友。

And I think I was just open and ready to hear something that I could do to make my life better.

我想我只是敞开心扉，准备好听到一些我可以做的事情来让我的生活变得更好。

And that was the one, and I'm probably predisposed to being an optimist anyway, so it probably landed just right for me.

就是这样，无论如何，我可能倾向于成为一个乐观主义者，所以它可能正好适合我。

Lenny: A positive mental attitude will be your key to success.

莱尼：积极的心态将是你成功的关键。

Amazing.

惊人的。

Final question, maybe just to leave listeners with one tactical thing they can do to become better storytellers.

最后一个问题，也许只是为了给听众留下他们可以做的一件策略性的事情，以成为更好的讲故事的人。

What would that be?

那会是什么？

Matthew Dicks: So two things should start every story you ever tell for the rest of your life.

马修·迪克斯：所以，你余生讲述的每个故事都应该从两件事开始。

So you start with location, where are you?

所以你从位置开始，你在哪里？

Location activates imagination, right?

位置激发想象力，对吗？

If I say I'm standing in the kitchen, you've already automatically applied 1000 adjectives to my story.

如果我说我站在厨房里，你已经自动为我的故事应用了 1000 个形容词。

You see the kitchen with great clarity.

您可以非常清晰地看到厨房。

You probably put me in your own kitchen or your parents' kitchen or a kitchen you see on TV.

你可能把我放在你自己的厨房或你父母的厨房或你在电视上看到的厨房。

But if the particularities of the kitchen are relevant to the story, that's what I want you to do.

但如果厨房的特殊性与故事相关，那就是我希望你做的。

I'm not interested in reproducing locations with some kind of visual accuracy in your brain.

我对在你的大脑中以某种视觉准确性再现位置不感兴趣。

I want you to see a fully realized location.

我想让你看到一个完全实现的位置。

So I love location because it's one word that comes imbued with 1000 adjectives.

所以我喜欢“位置”这个词，因为它是一个包含 1000 个形容词的词。

Matthew Dicks: So you start with location and you start with action, meaning something needs to be happening right away.

马修·迪克斯：所以你从地点开始，从行动开始，这意味着需要立即发生一些事情。

Literally, I am in a place and I'm doing a thing.

从字面上看，我在一个地方，正在做一件事。

It indicates to the audience that you're actually going to tell something that's moving forward.

它向观众表明你实际上要讲述一些正在发生的事情。

It's why there's a big spaceship shooting of little spaceship in the opening of Star Wars.

这就是为什么在《星球大战》的开头会有大宇宙飞船射击小宇宙飞船的原因。

It's why there's a police officer chasing a guy across a roof.

这就是为什么会有一名警察在屋顶上追赶一个人。

Something is already happening.

有些事情已经发生了。

Matthew Dicks: We didn't start with nonsense.

马修·迪克斯：我们并不是从废话开始的。

We started with something happening that grabbed us right away.

我们一开始就发生了一些立即吸引我们的事情。

That's what people want from story.

这就是人们想要从故事中得到的。

Also, if you're a person unlike me, which is to say anyone who isn't sort of a white straight American man with no physical or mental disabilities, who thinks, I've always thought every room I walk into, I have the right to speak.

另外，如果你是一个与我不同的人，也就是说，任何不是没有身体或精神残疾的美国白人直男，你认为，我一直认为我走进的每个房间，我都有发言权。

But if you are unlike me in those regards, you often find, and I know this is true, that it's harder to make space, to get people to hear you if you're from any marginalized or discriminated against group in any way.

但如果你在这些方面与我不同，你经常会发现，而且我知道这是真的，如果你来自任何边缘化或受到任何方式歧视的群体，就很难腾出空间，让人们听到你的声音。

But what I've been told by women and people of color and members of the LGBTQ community, they've discovered that when I start a story by going, I'm in a place doing a thing, it's a signal to people that I am now telling a story.

但女性、有色人种和 LGBTQ 群体的成员告诉我，他们发现，当我通过去开始一个故事时，我在一个地方做一件事，这是向人们发出的一个信号，表明我现在正在讲一个故事。

Matthew Dicks: And when you can signal to people, I'm now telling a story, they will get quiet for you and they will afford you the opportunity to speak.

马修·迪克斯：当你可以向人们发出信号时，我现在正在讲一个故事，他们会为你安静下来，他们会给你说话的机会。

I didn't know this was going to be the case, but I have had many, many people who I teach this skill to come back to me and say, "My God, people listen to me." And they've said they think they listen because I tell a good story, but they've told me because I start with that location and action, it just tells people, the movie's on.

我不知道情况会是这样，但有很多很多我教过这种技能的人回来对我说：“天哪，人们听我的。”他们说他们认为他们听是因为我讲了一个好故事，但他们告诉我是因为我从那个地点和动作开始，它只是告诉人们，电影正在上映。

Nobody talks during the movie.

电影放映期间没有人说话。

You can eat popcorn, but you're not allowed to talk.

你可以吃爆米花，但不可以说话。

It silences the room for you and affords you some space to then start doing the work that a good storyteller does to hold those people's attention.

它让房间安静下来，为你提供一些空间，然后开始做一个优秀的讲故事者所做的工作来吸引人们的注意力。

So start every story you ever tell for the rest of your life with those two things, and you're already going to be like 50% better than you were before you heard this.

因此，在你余生讲述的每一个故事中，都从这两件事开始，你已经比听到这句话之前好 50% 了。

Lenny: Wow.

莱尼：哇。

Well, the hits just keep on coming.

嗯，热门歌曲不断涌现。

Matt, you're much more of a philosopher than I imagined you were when we started this conversation.

马特，当我们开始这次谈话时，你比我想象的更像一个哲学家。

I learned a ton.

我学到了很多。

I'm really excited for people to learn from you.

我真的很高兴人们能向你学习。

Where can folks find you online if they want to learn more or continue learning from you and work with you potentially, especially companies?

如果人们想了解更多信息或继续向您学习并有可能与您合作，尤其是公司，他们可以在哪里找到您？

And then finally, how can listeners be useful to you?

最后，听众如何对你有用？

Matthew Dicks: Sure.

马修·迪克斯：当然。

So you can find me at matthewdicks.com or if you're a business oriented person or someone who wants to learn, I also have storyworthymd.com, my initials, MD, and that's where I sort of have courses and online training and things like that.

所以你可以在 matthewdicks.com 找到我，或者如果你是一个以商业为导向的人或想要学习的人，我也有 Storyworthymd.com，我的名字缩写，MD，这就是我提供课程和在线培训之类的地方。

So either place you'll be able to find me and contact me.

因此，无论在哪里，您都可以找到我并联系我。

In a non-self-serving sort of version of your second part of the question, I think if you just tell stories, but more importantly, if you ask people to tell you stories, again, creating that space, listen for people who say things like, oh, something like that happened to me once.

在问题第二部分的非自私版本中，我认为如果你只是讲故事，但更重要的是，如果你让人们给你讲故事，再次创造那个空间，倾听人们说的话，哦，类似的事情曾经发生在我身上。

What they're really saying is, I wish someone would want to hear what happened to me once.

他们真正想说的是，我希望有人想听听我曾经发生过什么事。

Matthew Dicks: And so I am always someone who's willing to say, oh, tell me that story.

马修·迪克斯：所以我总是愿意说，哦，告诉我那个故事。

Offer someone five minutes of your time so they can finally speak the thing that they've been waiting to speak to someone.

给某人五分钟的时间，这样他们终于可以说出他们一直在等待与某人交谈的内容。

So if you just do that, there's going to be more opportunities for storytelling in the world, and ultimately, perhaps that will funnel down to me where they will want to buy my book or visit my website or take some training with me, but just create space for storytelling.

因此，如果你这样做，世界上就会有更多讲故事的机会，最终，也许这会集中到我身上，他们会想要购买我的书或访问我的网站或与我一起接受一些培训，但只是为讲故事创造空间。

I think that'd be a beautiful thing.

我认为那将是一件美好的事情。

Lenny: I love it.

莱尼：我喜欢。

What a beautiful way to end it.

这是多么美好的结束方式啊。

Matt, thank you so much for being here.

马特，非常感谢你来到这里。

Matthew Dicks: Thanks so much, Lenny.

马修·迪克斯：非常感谢，莱尼。

I really appreciate it.

我真的很感激。

Lenny: Bye everyone.

莱尼：大家再见。

Thank you so much for listening.

非常感谢您的聆听。

If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。

Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.

另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。

You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at Lennyspodcast.com.

您可以在 Lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。

See you in the next episode.

下一集见。

中文为机器翻译，仅供参考。