Career frameworks, A/B testing, onboarding tips, selling to engineers | Laura Schaffer (Amplitude)

Laura Modi: So our head of growth, who...

劳拉·莫迪：我们的增长主管……

I mean, this girl is just fabulous.

我的意思是，这个女孩真是太棒了。

She was watching our inventory levels very carefully and also watching how quickly we were growing.

她非常仔细地观察我们的库存水平，也观察我们的增长速度。

And I'll never forget that moment.

我永远不会忘记那一刻。

I can visualize it, sitting in a meeting, and she pulls up her screen.

我可以想象，坐在会议上，她打开屏幕。

She goes, "Here's the dilemma.

她说：“这就是困境。

We are depleting inventory far quicker than our ability to replenish and the customers keep coming." You sit there and your first reaction is "This is great.

我们消耗库存的速度远远快于我们的补充能力，而且客户源源不断地涌来。”你坐在那里，你的第一反应是“这太棒了。

We're growing." And she's like, "It's not that great, actually, because here's what's going to happen.

我们正在成长。”她说：“实际上，这并不是那么好，因为这就是将要发生的事情。

We are going to run out of product for the babies that are on Bobbie today.

今天我们为博比上的婴儿提供的产品即将用完。

We have about six days before we get to a place where we won't be able to serve those who've already made a commitment to Bobbie." She's like, "So we need to turn off our site and stop growing the business."

我们还有大约六天的时间，我们将无法为那些已经向博比做出承诺的人提供服务。”她说，“所以我们需要关闭我们的网站并停止发展业务。”

Lenny: Welcome to Lenny's Podcast, where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard-won experiences building and growing today's most successful products.

莱尼：欢迎来到莱尼的播客，我在这里采访了世界一流的产品领导者和增长专家，学习他们来之不易的构建和发展当今最成功产品的经验。

Today my guest is Laura Modi.

今天我的嘉宾是劳拉·莫迪。

Laura and I actually worked together at Airbnb for many years where she was director of hospitality, leading all of the work around strengthening the host community and also improving marketplace quality.

事实上，劳拉和我在 Airbnb 共事多年，她担任接待总监，领导所有围绕加强房东社区和提高市场质量的工作。

After leaving Airbnb, she went on to found a company called Bobbie, the only female-founded and mom-led organic infant formula company in the US which basically every mom I know uses.

离开 Airbnb 后，她继续创办了一家名为 Bobbie 的公司，这是美国唯一一家由女性创立、妈妈领导的有机婴儿配方奶粉公司，基本上我认识的每个妈妈都在使用该公司。

Lenny: I rarely have CEOs or founders on this podcast, and when I do, it's because I'm confident that product leaders and growth teams and other founders can learn a lot from this person.

莱尼：我很少邀请首席执行官或创始人出现在这个播客上，而当我这样做时，是因为我相信产品领导者、增长团队和其他创始人可以从这个人身上学到很多东西。

Laura is a great example of this and I've been incredibly impressed with watching Laura execute and build this company.

劳拉就是一个很好的例子，看着劳拉执行和建立这家公司给我留下了深刻的印象。

In our conversation, we talk about how to build and maintain momentum within your organization, how sometimes slowing growth down is the best way to grow long term, why the most innovative ideas often come from people with no experience in the problem space, how to lead through tough times, why manufacturing fake deadlines is so powerful and effective and so much more.

在我们的对话中，我们讨论如何在组织内部建立和保持动力，为什么有时放慢增长是长期增长的最佳方式，为什么最具创新性的想法往往来自在问题领域没有经验的人，如何领导度过困难时期，为什么制造虚假的最后期限如此强大和有效等等。

Laura is such a great leader and such a great human, and I'm really excited for you to learn from her.

劳拉是一位伟大的领导者，也是一位伟大的人，我真的很高兴你能向她学习。

With that, I bring you Laura Modi, after a short word from our sponsors.

在我们的赞助商简短发言后，我为您带来了劳拉·莫迪。

Lenny: This episode is brought to you by Vanta, helping you streamline your security compliance to accelerate your growth.

Lenny：本集由 Vanta 为您带来，可帮助您简化安全合规性以加速您的成长。

Thousands of fast-growing companies like Gusto, Com, Hora and Modern Treasury, trust Vanta to help build, scale, manage and demonstrate their security and compliance programs and get ready for audits in weeks, not months.

Gusto、Com、Hora 和 Modern Treasury 等数千家快速发展的公司信任 Vanta 帮助构建、扩展、管理和演示其安全与合规计划，并在数周（而不是数月）内为审核做好准备。

By offering the most in-demand security and privacy frameworks such as SOC 2, ISO 27001, GDPR, HIPAA, and many more, Vanta helps companies obtain the reports they need to accelerate growth, build efficient compliance processes, mitigate risks to their businesses, and build trust with external stakeholders.

通过提供最受欢迎的安全和隐私框架（例如 SOC 2、ISO 27001、GDPR、HIPAA 等），Vanta 帮助公司获取加速增长、构建高效合规流程、降低业务风险以及与外部利益相关者建立信任所需的报告。

Over 5,000 fast-growing companies use Vanta to automate up to 90% of the work involved with SOC 2 and these other frameworks.

超过 5,000 家快速发展的公司使用 Vanta 自动化 SOC 2 和其他框架所涉及的高达 90% 的工作。

For a limited time, Lenny's Podcast listeners get $1,000 off Vanta.

在有限的时间内，Lenny's Podcast 听众可享受 Vanta 1,000 美元优惠。

Go to vanta.com/lenny.

访问vanta.com/lenny。

That's V-A-N-T-A.com/lenny to learn more and to claim your discounts.

要了解更多信息并申请折扣，请访问 V-A-N-T-A.com/lenny。

Get started today.

今天就开始吧。

Lenny: Today's episode is brought to you by Element.

Lenny：今天的节目是 Element 为您带来的。

I just recently discovered the stuff actually from another podcast, and it is such sweet, salty goodness.

我最近刚刚从另一个播客中发现了这些东西，它是如此的甜，咸的美味。

Element is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with a science-backed electrolyte ratio.

Element 是一种美味的电解质饮料混合物，具有科学支持的电解质比例。

And, unlike most electrolyte drinks, there's no sugar, coloring, artificial ingredients, gluten or any other BS.

而且，与大多数电解质饮料不同的是，它不含糖、色素、人工成分、麸质或任何其他废话。

Getting enough electrolytes helps prevent and eliminate headaches, muscle cramps, fatigue, sleeplessness, and other common symptoms of electrolyte deficiency.

摄入足够的电解质有助于预防和消除头痛、肌肉痉挛、疲劳、失眠和电解质缺乏的其他常见症状。

Element is the exclusive hydration partner to Team USA Weightlifting and many other Olympic athletes.

Element 是美国举重队和许多其他奥运会运动员的独家水袋合作伙伴。

Lenny: Also, dozens of NBA and NFL teams and players rely on Element to stay hydrated, along with Navy SEAL teams, FBI sniper teams and the Marines.

Lenny：此外，数十支 NBA 和 NFL 球队和球员以及海豹突击队、FBI 狙击队和海军陆战队都依靠 Element 来保持水分。

You can try Element totally risk-free.

您可以完全无风险地尝试 Element。

If you don't like it, you can share it with a salty friend and they'll give you your money back, no questions asked.

如果您不喜欢它，您可以与咸味的朋友分享，他们会无条件退款给您。

To give it a shot, go to drinklmnt.com/lenny and you'll get a free sample pack with any purchase, which includes one packet of every flavor.

要尝试一下，请访问 Drinklmnt.com/lenny，购买任何产品即可获得免费样品包，其中包括每种口味的一包。

My favorite is watermelon salt.

我最喜欢的是西瓜盐。

You won't find this offer publicly available, so you have to head to drinklmnt.com/lenny to take advantage of this offer.

您不会发现此优惠公开可用，因此您必须前往 Drinklmnt.com/lenny 才能利用此优惠。

Stay salty.

保持咸味。

Lenny: Laura, welcome to the podcast.

莱尼：劳拉，欢迎来到播客。

Laura Modi: Hi, I'm so happy to be here.

劳拉·莫迪：嗨，我很高兴来到这里。

It's a Friday, Lenny, this is amazing.

今天是星期五，莱尼，这太棒了。

Lenny: Oh, my God, already starting strong.

莱尼：哦，天哪，已经开始强势了。

I was looking forward to this chat for a few weeks already.

我已经期待这次聊天几个星期了。

I knew that we booked it a couple of weeks ago.

我知道我们几周前就预订了。

Just as context, we worked together at Airbnb for a while and, not something I expected, but you went on to now become a magnate in the baby formula industry, which I'm excited to dig into.

就背景而言，我们在 Airbnb 合作了一段时间，这出乎我的意料，但你现在成为了婴儿配方奶粉行业的巨头，我很高兴能深入研究这个行业。

And so thank you again for being here.

再次感谢您来到这里。

Laura Modi: Thank you.

劳拉·莫迪：谢谢。

This is going to be exciting.

这将是令人兴奋的。

Hope you don't mind.

希望你不介意。

I am going to have a little bit of wine as we go through this.

当我们经历这个的时候，我会喝一点酒。

Lenny: It's highly encouraged.

莱尼：这是非常值得鼓励的。

Maybe I need to start drinking more on the show.

也许我需要在节目中开始喝更多的酒。

That might help.

这可能有帮助。

Lenny: We'll see.

莱尼：我们拭目以待。

We'll see how it ends up.

我们会看看结果如何。

It'll be a good retrospective.

这将是一个很好的回顾。

Lenny: So I thought it'd be fun to start with just your time at Airbnb where we got to work together.

Lenny：所以我觉得从你在 Airbnb 的经历开始，我们一起工作会很有趣。

You spent five and a half years there.

你在那里度过了五年半。

Everyone that spends that amount of time at Airbnb, and let me know if you agree, always ends up being in this transformative time in their life and their career.

每个在 Airbnb 度过大量时间的人（如果您同意的话请告诉我）最终都会处于生活和职业生涯中的这个变革时期。

Yeah, okay, you're nodding.

是啊，好吧，你点头。

Laura Modi: I can't imagine a world where I would be without Airbnb.

劳拉·莫迪：我无法想象没有 Airbnb 的世界。

Lenny: Yeah, I feel the same way.

莱尼：是的，我也有同样的感觉。

And so I want to spend a little time on what you learned from that experience and what you took away there.

因此，我想花一点时间谈谈您从这次经历中学到的东西以及您从中学到的东西。

But just to start, can you just share briefly what you worked on while you were at Airbnb?

首先，您能否简单分享一下您在 Airbnb 期间所做的工作？

Laura Modi: I mean, what didn't we work on?

劳拉·莫迪：我的意思是，我们没有做什么工作？

Just, I reflect back and it's one of those experiences where it probably was transformative because you do get an opportunity to work on so many different things.

只是，我回想起来，这可能是变革性的经历之一，因为你确实有机会从事很多不同的事情。

So I remember joining and I was just put in charge of leading and growing parts of customer service, vendor management.

所以我记得加入时我只是负责领导和发展客户服务和供应商管理部分。

I mean, we were scaling the team so fast on that side.

我的意思是，我们在这方面的团队规模扩张得非常快。

It quickly shifted into taking me to Europe where I led our consolidation of our European offices in Dublin.

它很快就转移到带我去欧洲，在那里我领导了我们在都柏林的欧洲办事处的整合。

It was so funny.

太有趣了。

I remember at the time being asked to go do it and thinking, am I being asked purely because I'm just the only Irish person in the company right now?

我记得当时被要求去做这件事并想，我被要求纯粹是因为我是公司里唯一的爱尔兰人吗？

But it was one of the biggest operational changes that we went through there.

但这是我们在那里经历的最大的运营变化之一。

And then for the last few years I was the director of hospitality leading global host community and host operations.

在过去的几年里，我担任酒店总监，领导全球房东社区和房东运营。

Lenny: I think you're underselling that last part.

莱尼：我认为你低估了最后一部分。

Can you just share a little bit more of what that actually means?

您能多分享一下这实际上意味着什么吗？

Laura Modi: Our product really wasn't our technology.

劳拉·莫迪：我们的产品确实不是我们的技术。

It wasn't the technology that we were building, although for a few years we all thought it was.

这不是我们正在开发的技术，尽管几年来我们都认为它是。

And then it got to a place where we realized Airbnb is nothing without its hosts, nothing.

然后我们意识到，如果没有房东，Airbnb 就什么都不是。

If anything, Airbnb's product was its hosts.

如果说有什么不同的话，那就是 Airbnb 的产品就是它的房东。

So there was a moment, and I can't remember, it was two or three years in, where that narrative was building up more and more and we realized that there was a need to have a central team, which we called Hospitality, dedicated to equipping and recognizing and holding this product of our hosts accountable to their job.

所以有一个时刻，我不记得了，那是两三年后，这种叙述越来越多，我们意识到需要有一个中央团队，我们称之为“酒店”，致力于装备和认可东道主的这个产品，并让他们对他们的工作负责。

Lenny: Yeah, I think we could go down that.

莱尼：是的，我想我们可以继续下去。

Maybe let me ask one question there because I think that's really interesting.

也许让我问一个问题，因为我认为这真的很有趣。

For a company where the product, as you said, and marketplaces in general, the product you're selling is the supply, in our case Airbnb hosts.

正如您所说，对于一家以产品为中心的公司以及一般市场而言，您销售的产品就是供应，在我们的例子中是 Airbnb 托管。

Is there something maybe you learned from that experience, I don't know, working at a software, company about how to think about the supply as the product and how that maybe informs, I don't know, what you're building today or just something in general?

我不知道，您是否从在一家软件公司工作的经历中学到了一些东西，即如何将供应视为产品，以及它如何影响（我不知道）您今天正在构建的东西或只是一般性的东西？

Laura Modi: I think it maybe just starts internally where you have to be able to create a culture first, to all understand that.

劳拉·莫迪：我认为这可能只是从内部开始，你必须首先创造一种文化，让所有人都理解这一点。

Because otherwise you're going to be in a position where you're focused on optimizing the technology, efficiency, growth, looking at tools for tools' sake versus tools for users' sake.

因为否则的话，你将专注于优化技术、效率和增长，为工具而看工具，而不是为用户而看工具。

And I mean, I remember a very pivotal shift when we started realizing that we really needed to understand our hosts far more than we had leading up to that.

我的意思是，我记得一个非常关键的转变，当时我们开始意识到我们确实需要比之前更多地了解我们的东道主。

And I think growth just follows.

我认为增长就在眼前。

I mean, we certainly saw that at Airbnb.

我的意思是，我们在 Airbnb 上确实看到了这一点。

If we put the hosts first and we thought about building tools for them versus what do we need just to drive more bookings, users begets users, and that's exactly what we saw.

如果我们把房东放在第一位，并考虑为他们构建工具，而不是我们需要什么来推动更多预订，那么用户就会产生用户，这正是我们所看到的。

Lenny: What are some lasting lessons from your time at Airbnb that you bring to what you're working on now?

Lenny：您在 Airbnb 工作期间学到的哪些经验教训对您现在的工作有哪些影响？

Laura Modi: The most obvious kind of cliched one is culture.

劳拉·莫迪：最明显的陈词滥调是文化。

It is bread and butter to everything you do, from the people you hire to how you build the right mindset to just keeping the energy.

它是您所做的一切的基础，从您雇用的人员到您如何建立正确的心态，再到保持精力。

I mean, energy at Airbnb was the currency.

我的意思是，能源在 Airbnb 就是货币。

It was like, unless you didn't have that energy, nothing was happening.

就好像，除非你没有那种能量，否则什么都不会发生。

And I think about that every day.

我每天都在思考这个问题。

How do you keep energy going?

你如何保持精力充沛？

And my God, they did that for a decade, just keeping it going.

天哪，他们这样做了十年，而且一直坚持下去。

I think the other big takeaway is if you can get people excited behind a vision and storytelling, it again kind of carries through that cross-functional work.

我认为另一个重要的收获是，如果你能让人们在愿景和故事讲述背后感到兴奋，它又可以进行跨职能的工作。

Laura Modi: I now reflect back on just how powerful our storytelling was at Airbnb to get people pumped up.

劳拉·莫迪（Laura Modi）：我现在回想一下 Airbnb 的讲故事对于让人们兴奋起来有多么强大。

I mean, even for some of the smallest features that we would build, Lenny, they would kick off with the most powerful storytelling.

我的意思是，即使对于我们要构建的一些最小的功能，莱尼，他们也会以最有力的故事讲述开始。

I mean, we were changing lives.

我的意思是，我们正在改变生活。

And again, it makes you wake up every day going, "Fuck, yeah, I want to work on this." And you're not just going in to fix something, you actually feel like you're having very large impact.

再说一次，它会让你每天醒来都会说，“操，是的，我想从事这个工作。”你不只是去解决一些问题，你实际上感觉自己正在产生非常大的影响。

And that has to be felt the whole way down the org.

整个组织都必须感受到这一点。

Lenny: I love that you're already getting into the specifics of what culture actually...

莱尼：我喜欢你已经深入了解了文化的具体细节……

how it manifests and how to build a culture.

它如何体现以及如何建立一种文化。

And so I want to maybe ask another question there.

所以我可能想问另一个问题。

You talked about keeping the energy up is a big part of creating the culture.

您谈到保持活力是创造文化的重要组成部分。

You want to create strong storytelling, either in one of those buckets or another example.

您想要在其中一个桶或另一个示例中创建强有力的故事讲述。

What do you do at Bobbie, which we're going to talk about, to build a strong culture?

我们将要讨论的 Bobbie 是如何建立强大的文化的？

What else do you do to actually do that?

为了真正做到这一点，你还做了什么？

Because people hear about building a strong culture and they're like, "What do I do?

因为人们听说要建立强大的文化，他们会想，“我该怎么办？

How do I do that?" So I'd love to hear anything you've actually done there.

我该怎么做呢？”所以我很想听听你在那里实际做了什么。

Laura Modi: I think one of the biggest ones I would say is that you need to get to know people personally as much as you do professionally.

劳拉·莫迪：我认为我想说的最重要的事情之一是，你需要像专业人士一样了解人们的个人情况。

And that was maybe something I also maybe took a little bit for granted at Airbnb.

这也许是我在 Airbnb 认为理所当然的事情。

We had built a culture where people really personally loved each other.

我们建立了一种人们真正彼此相爱的文化。

They loved working together.

他们喜欢一起工作。

Now, fast-forward to today and you're building a company that's completely remote, how do you build a personal relationship?

现在，快进到今天，您正在建立一家完全远程的公司，您如何建立个人关系？

Laura Modi: For example, we make sure that we take time to have personal and professional check-ins.

劳拉·莫迪：例如，我们确保花时间进行个人和专业的登记。

And cross-functional people in the org who maybe have no idea someone else as a kid or what they're doing in their lives.

组织中的跨职能人员可能不知道小时候的其他人或他们在生活中所做的事情。

Because those personal connections, I mean, again, it's your second family, you're waking up every day to spend time with them.

因为这些个人联系，我的意思是，这是你的第二个家庭，你每天醒来都与他们共度时光。

I think those personal connections are some of the biggest.

我认为这些个人关系是最重要的。

Lenny: It's interesting because there's also this movement away from your workmates or your family.

莱尼：这很有趣，因为还有这种远离你的同事或家人的运动。

Airbnb I think is very...

Airbnb 我认为非常...

Everyone called themselves AirFam, but that becomes challenging when you have to let people go and there's challenging times.

每个人都称自己为 AirFam，但当你必须让员工离开并且面临充满挑战的时刻时，这就变得具有挑战性。

So is your perspective, that's where you find value, to kind of stay close to that?

那么你的观点也是如此吗？这就是你发现价值并保持接近的地方吗？

Laura Modi: I think you need a hybrid.

劳拉·莫迪：我认为你需要一个混合体。

I do.

我愿意。

I think looking at work for transactions' sake, are your colleagues purely as the people who are just there to get the job done with you?

我觉得为了交易而工作，你的同事纯粹是为了和你一起完成工作的人吗？

That's not inspiring.

这不鼓舞人心。

No. Do I think that there's a balance and maybe some of the things that get introduced in a culture probably don't need to go that far?

不。我是否认为存在一种平衡，也许在一种文化中引入的某些东西可能不需要走那么远？

Yeah.

是的。

But no matter what, I do believe building personal connections and actually caring about the people you work for is imperative for building a lasting business.

但无论如何，我确实相信建立个人联系并真正关心你的工作人员对于建立持久的企业至关重要。

Lenny: What's the story of going from Airbnb to building a baby formula?

莱尼：从 Airbnb 到生产婴儿配方奶粉有什么故事？

Laura Modi: Oh, my god.

劳拉·莫迪：哦，天哪。

You mean leaving one of the fastest growing companies to start powdered milk?

您的意思是离开增长最快的公司之一来生产奶粉？

It was so funny.

太有趣了。

I don't know if I ever shared this with you, Lenny.

我不知道我是否曾与你分享过这个，莱尼。

I remember telling my dad and he was like, "Hold on a second, Laura.

我记得我告诉我爸爸，他说：“等一下，劳拉。

I don't understand." He's like, "You're lactose intolerant.

我不明白。”他就像是，“你有乳糖不耐症。

Why are you starting a milk company?" He just couldn't fathom why I would, I mean in many ways, leave an established business that had established parental leave benefits, everything that in many ways, as you grow through your career, become more and more what you need and you need the stability.

你为什么要创办一家牛奶公司？”他只是无法理解为什么我会——我的意思是在很多方面——离开一家已经建立了育儿假福利的老牌企业，在很多方面，随着你职业生涯的成长，一切都会变得越来越符合你的需要，你需要稳定。

Laura Modi: So that shift, I suppose, just socializing it is probably one of the hardest.

劳拉·莫迪：我想，这种转变，只是社交化可能是最困难的转变之一。

And it's a big thing to take a risk because you're taking 10 steps backwards in hopes of making major leaps forward.

冒险是一件大事，因为你要倒退 10 步，希望能取得重大飞跃。

And I think that's just always kind of been a narrative mostly in my career, which is I don't believe there's such a thing as taking a big leap without first taking a major risk, and that was.

我认为这在我的职业生涯中一直是一种叙述，我不相信在不首先冒重大风险的情况下就能够实现大的飞跃，事实就是如此。

I mean, it was a very big risk, obviously.

我的意思是，显然这是一个非常大的风险。

But then also, keep in mind, even before I joined Airbnb, I had a good job at Google.

但也要记住，即使在加入 Airbnb 之前，我就在 Google 找到了一份不错的工作。

And Airbnb at the time, I think, just had one of its most major crises back in 2011.

我认为，当时的 Airbnb 在 2011 年刚刚经历了最重大的危机之一。

Laura Modi: EJ.

劳拉·莫迪：EJ。

EJ incident.

EJ事件。

It was all over the papers.

报纸上到处都是这件事。

It was a small company.

那是一家小公司。

I wasn't really given a title.

我并没有真正获得头衔。

And I'll never forget as well, exactly the same narrative.

我也永远不会忘记，完全相同的叙述。

My parents going, "Hold on a second.

我的父母说：“等一下。

You're leaving Google to go start a B&B." Like, "No, I'm not starting a B&B.

你要离开 Google 去开一家 B&B。”就像，“不，我不会开一家 B&B。

I really believe this company's going somewhere." So anyway, the moral of the story is the move into starting my own business, it was a big risk and it was one that I felt so confident on that was needed, it was worth it.

我真的相信这家公司一定会取得成功。”所以无论如何，这个故事的寓意是开始自己创业，这是一个很大的风险，但我对此充满信心，认为这是必要的，这是值得的。

Lenny: Some people do what you did there, where you take a big risk and kind of maybe stick backwards and it doesn't work out.

莱尼：有些人做了你在那里所做的事情，你冒了很大的风险，而且可能会倒退，但结果是行不通的。

And in your case it's worked out many times.

就你而言，它已经解决了很多次。

Is there a thread across the decisions you've made that you think people maybe should look for or you think is important in taking that big risk?

您所做的决定中是否存在您认为人们可能应该寻找的线索，或者您认为在承担如此大的风险时很重要的线索？

Or do you think it was a lot of super luck?

或者你认为这是很多超级运气？

Laura Modi: Super luck.

劳拉·莫迪：超级幸运。

I mean, I have a folder of businesses and product ideas that, prior to Bobbie, I had dreamt of.

我的意思是，我有一个文件夹，里面有我在鲍比之前梦想的业务和产品创意。

And we can always get into that again in the future.

我们将来总是可以再次讨论这个问题。

Some of them I still dream of doing one day, but a big reason for not taking the risk is because I didn't feel the conviction.

其中一些我仍然梦想有一天能够实现，但没有冒险的一个重要原因是我没有信念。

So, yes, while I think it's luck, I think I put a lot of intention into researching the marketplace, understanding the business, determining how much of a risk I'm really able to take, even financially.

所以，是的，虽然我认为这是运气，但我认为我投入了很多精力来研究市场、了解业务、确定我真正能够承担多少风险，甚至是财务上的风险。

Sitting with my husband and determining how long I may need to be in this position before raising capital and is it possible?

和我的丈夫坐在一起，确定在筹集资金之前我可能需要在这个职位上呆多久，这可能吗？

It certainly isn't what sometimes it can appear on the surface, which is, "Oh, she had an idea and she left." There's a lot of work that goes into determining is this actually going to be something that's viable?

这当然不是有时表面上看起来的那样，“哦，她有一个想法，然后她就离开了。”有很多工作需要确定这是否真的可行？

Lenny: I like that lesson.

莱尼：我喜欢那节课。

It may seem like Laura went to here, to Airbnb and was just like, "Oh, how lucky she picked Airbnb of all the companies." But what you're saying is you spent the time researching, seeing what the company started.

劳拉 (Laura) 似乎去了这里，去了 Airbnb，然后就说，“哦，她在所有公司中选择了 Airbnb，真是太幸运了。”但你的意思是你花了时间进行研究，看看公司是做什么的。

Lenny: Yeah.

莱尼：是的。

Okay.

好的。

So let's talk about Bobbie, just broadly.

让我们广泛地谈谈鲍比。

Can you just talk about what is Bobbie and then what is the scale of Bobbie these days?

你能简单谈谈Bobbie是什么吗？现在Bobbie的规模是多少？

What stats can you share to give people a sense of how large this has gotten?

您可以分享哪些统计数据，让人们了解这个问题的规模有多大？

Laura Modi: Bobbie is a powdered milk company.

劳拉·莫迪：博比是一家奶粉公司。

We are an infant formula.

我们是婴儿配方奶粉。

And prior to infant formula, the formula-gate of 2022, which everyone is now familiar with.

而在婴儿奶粉之前，大家现在都熟悉的2022年奶粉门。

The short of it is that this is an industry that is owned by a duopoly.

缺点是这是一个双寡头垄断的行业。

It's one of the last remaining industries in the CPG space that has seen any disruption or change in probably 40 years.

它是 CPG 领域仅存的最后几个在大约 40 年内经历过颠覆或变化的行业之一。

And my desire was to create a formula that parents could feel proud of, an infant formula that felt modern and met where science is today.

我的愿望是创造一种让父母感到自豪的配方奶粉，一种感觉现代并符合当今科学的婴儿配方奶粉。

Because frankly, none of the infant formulas on the market really had caught up to where science has evolved to.

因为坦率地说，市场上的婴儿配方奶粉都没有真正跟上科学发展的步伐。

Laura Modi: Now, obviously, I only experienced this as becoming a mother myself.

劳拉·莫迪：显然，我只有在自己成为一名母亲时才经历过这一点。

I knew nothing about this at all.

我对此一无所知。

And then I pick up a can of formula and I read the back of the can and there's ingredients in there I would never feed myself.

然后我拿起一罐配方奶粉，读了罐子的背面，里面有我永远不会喂自己的成分。

And I think the thing that really hit me, and this was more of the business investor side of me, I just hated the product and I couldn't understand why, as something that is used by so many, 83% of parents, why is it that I'm embarrassed about it?

我认为真正让我震惊的事情，这更多的是我的商业投资者方面，我只是讨厌这个产品，我不明白为什么，作为一个被这么多人（83％的父母）使用的东西，为什么我对此感到尴尬？

I feel guilty feeding my child this and it's also ugly.

我对给我的孩子喂这个感到内疚，而且它也很难看。

It's sitting on my counter every day and this isn't what I want to see.

它每天都坐在我的柜台上，这不是我想看到的。

Laura Modi: I remember saying to my husband, "I feel like we have failed to breastfeed." And the alternative is that I need to give her a medical solution to survive, which it's milk.

劳拉·莫迪：我记得对我丈夫说，“我觉得我们没有母乳喂养。”另一种选择是我需要给她一种生存的医疗解决方案，那就是牛奶。

I should feel like I'm giving her food.

我应该觉得我在给她食物。

But for whatever reason, society has set this up to make formula feel like you have failed.

但无论出于何种原因，社会设置这一点都是为了让配方奶粉让人感觉你失败了。

I mean, that was the impetus.

我的意思是，这就是动力。

I know you asked me, what is Bobbie?

我知道你问我，鲍比是什么？

We are a better-for-you infant formula without the guilt.

我们是一种更适合您的婴儿配方奶粉，没有负罪感。

Lenny: Ooh, I like that.

莱尼：噢，我喜欢这样。

That was a good summary at the end.

最后总结得很好。

How about about the scale of Bobbie?

波比的尺度怎么样？

What kind of numbers can you share?

您可以分享什么样的数字？

Just to give people a sense of how large this has become.

只是为了让人们了解这已经变得有多大。

Laura Modi: Yeah.

劳拉·莫迪：是的。

Oh, my god.

我的天啊。

I remember launching, it was 100% direct-to-consumer, it was at the top of 2021.

我记得它是 100% 直接面向消费者的，是在 2021 年推出的。

And the moment you're about to launch, the first question all investors ask is what do you believe your growth is going to be?

当你即将推出时，所有投资者问的第一个问题是你认为你的增长将会是多少？

First question.

第一个问题。

It's the same question you get after you're married, when are you going to have a baby?

结婚后你也会问同样的问题，你什么时候要孩子？

I'm like, "I have no clue what my growth is going to be.

我想，“我不知道我的成长会怎样。

I've been on the market for a hot minute." I remember thinking hopefully four million, five million in our first year.

我在转会市场上已经热火朝天了。”我记得我当时想，第一年希望能有 400 万、500 万。

So the growth has been fabulous and beyond our wildest dreams in what we had expected.

因此，增长速度非常惊人，超出了我们的预期。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

There's a bunch of questions I'm going to ask about how you grew Bobby, but you mentioned the COVID baby shortage crisis.

我要问很多关于你如何抚养鲍比的问题，但你提到了新冠婴儿短缺危机。

And there's a couple stories I wanted to get into that was one of them.

我想讲几个故事，这就是其中之一。

Can you just talk about what you went through in that period?

能简单讲一下那段时间你经历了什么吗？

Because I imagine it was both a blessing and a curse.

因为我认为这既是祝福也是诅咒。

Also, it reminds me, I have a friend who uses Bobbie and she just told me a story about how someone, she couldn't find any Bobbie during COVID, supply chain issues and all that, and an employee of Bobbie came to her house and brought her formula just to make sure she had enough.

另外，它提醒我，我有一个使用 Bobbie 的朋友，她刚刚给我讲了一个故事，讲述了某人在新冠疫情期间找不到 Bobbie、供应链问题等等，而 Bobbie 的一名员工来到她家，给她带来了配方奶粉，只是为了确保她有足够的配方奶粉。

And obviously that created forever brand loyalty.

显然，这创造了永远的品牌忠诚度。

And we'll talk a little bit about brand, but I'd love to hear about just that period of the journey and what you learned from it.

我们将讨论一些关于品牌的问题，但我很想听听这段旅程以及您从中学到了什么。

Laura Modi: There is nothing like a crisis that gives you more of an appreciation for what opportunity lies ahead.

劳拉·莫迪：没有什么比危机更能让你认识到未来的机遇了。

And I would thank my blessings every day that the only way to look at this positively was to be in a position of gratitude that I have an opportunity that most startups would wait a lifetime for.

我每天都会感谢我的祝福，积极看待这件事的唯一方法就是感激我拥有大多数初创公司会等待一生的机会。

So what happened was I woke up one day and the President of the United States was talking about there being an infant formula shortage.

所以发生的事情是有一天我醒来，美国总统正在谈论婴儿配方奶粉短缺。

And again, it's just being in the right place at the right time.

再说一遍，这只是在正确的时间出现在正确的地点。

A topic that never has really been brought up.

一个从未真正被提起的话题。

Unfortunately, one of the large companies, one of the duopolies, had a recall and that recall basically left the nation without product and we were not able to feed babies in the US.

不幸的是，其中一家大公司，双寡头之一，进行了一次召回，这次召回基本上使国家失去了产品，我们无法喂养美国的婴儿。

Laura Modi: Being one of the smallest companies here, we ended up seeing our customer count double the first week that that shortage happened.

劳拉·莫迪：作为这里最小的公司之一，我们最终看到我们的客户数量在短缺发生的第一周就翻了一番。

All of that would seem great, almost like a dream for any startup to be in, that you're going to see your product grow now because they're moving from one customer to another or from one product to another.

所有这一切看起来都很棒，几乎就像任何初创公司的梦想，你会看到你的产品现在增长，因为他们正在从一个客户转移到另一个客户，或者从一种产品转移到另一种产品。

But here's what happens.

但事情是这样的。

Infant formula is one of those products you can't run out of.

婴儿配方奶粉是您用不完的产品之一。

It's not cool to be out of infant formula.

没有婴儿配方奶粉并不酷。

It's not like a piece of furniture and you're at capacity for a certain amount of time.

它不像一件家具，你可以在一定时间内发挥作用。

Laura Modi: So our Head of Growth who, I mean this girl is just fabulous.

劳拉·莫迪：我们的增长主管，我的意思是这个女孩太棒了。

She was watching our inventory levels very carefully and also watching how quickly we were growing.

她非常仔细地观察我们的库存水平，也观察我们的增长速度。

And I'll never forget that moment.

我永远不会忘记那一刻。

I can visualize it, sitting in a meeting.

我可以想象它，坐在一个会议上。

And she pulls up her screen, she goes, "Here's the dilemma.

她拉起屏幕，说道：“这就是困境。

We are depleting inventory far quicker than our ability to replenish.

我们消耗库存的速度远远快于补充库存的速度。

And the customers keep coming." You sit there and your first reaction is, "I mean, this is great.

而且顾客源源不断地来。”你坐在那里，你的第一反应是：“我的意思是，这太棒了。

We're growing." And she's like, "It's not that great, actually, because here's what's going to happen.

我们正在成长。”她说：“实际上，这并不是那么好，因为这就是将要发生的事情。

We are going to run out a product for the babies that are on Bobbie today.

我们将为今天博比身上的婴儿推出一种产品。

That's a problem."

这是一个问题。”

Laura Modi: So in my absorption of everything that's happening, and again, being a company that had only been on the market 14 months, saying to her, "Well, Shireen, what do we do next?" And she's like, "We have about six days before we get to a place where we won't be able to serve those who've already made a commitment to Bobbie." She's like, "So we need to turn off our site and stop growing the business." That's a big decision to make when you're like, "Okay, so I'm going to turn to all of our investors and say we're turning off our site, we're closing down to ensure that we keep enough product."

劳拉·莫迪：在我吸收所发生的一切的过程中，作为一家才上市 14 个月的公司，我再次对她说：“好吧，希琳，我们下一步该做什么？”她说，“我们还有大约六天的时间，我们将无法为那些已经向博比做出承诺的人提供服务。”她说，“所以我们需要关闭我们的网站并停止发展业务。”当你想“好吧，所以我要向我们所有的投资者说我们要关闭我们的网站，我们要关闭以确保我们保留足够的产品”时，这是一个重大决定。

Laura Modi: But honestly, in hindsight, it was a no-brainer.

劳拉·莫迪：但说实话，事后看来，这是理所当然的。

We were not going to run out of product on our current subscribers and we had no idea how long the crisis was going to last.

我们不会用完现有订户的产品，而且我们不知道危机会持续多久。

So even though we didn't know how long we'd be off, I gave the thumbs up, sally forth, turn it off, and we went into hibernation mode.

因此，即使我们不知道要休息多久，我还是竖起了大拇指，向前冲去，把它关掉，然后我们就进入了休眠模式。

And in many ways we switched immediately into our customers come first.

在许多方面，我们立即转变为客户至上。

We now have 70,000 subscribers who are in a place of panic because they hear the news every day that there's formula running out and our job is to give them confidence and clarity that we have the products for them and we're never going to run out.

我们现在有 70,000 名订阅者，他们感到恐慌，因为他们每天都会听到配方奶粉用完的消息，而我们的工作就是让他们相信我们有适合他们的产品，而且我们永远不会用完。

And we did.

我们做到了。

For six months, six months, we kept our website off and we didn't grow the business last year and we continued to serve our current subscribers and in the end we became the only formula company that was able to reliably serve its current customers and never run out.

六个月、六个月的时间里，我们关闭了我们的网站，去年我们的业务也没有增长，我们继续为现有的订户提供服务，最终我们成为唯一一家能够可靠地为现有客户提供服务并且永远不会用完的配方奶粉公司。

Lenny: That's an amazing story.

莱尼：那是一个了不起的故事。

I haven't heard that before.

我以前没听说过。

You threw out this term at some point when we were emailing earlier of slowth, you called it a slowth.

当我们早些时候通过电子邮件发送缓慢问题时，您在某个时候抛出了这个术语，您称其为缓慢。

Slow growth, I think.

我认为增长缓慢。

Lenny: Is that how you think about this?

莱尼：你也是这么想的吗？

Laura Modi: That was part of also how do you change the culture internally?

劳拉·莫迪：这也是您如何改变内部文化的一部分？

I had 60 people on the team who were all in a position of driving growth and many of them were probably only hired weeks before the shortage with the position of growth, email growth, paid acquisition.

我的团队中有 60 名员工，他们都负责推动增长，其中许多人可能是在人才短缺的几周前才被聘用的，负责增长、电子邮件增长、付费获取等职位。

And all of a sudden you're telling someone who just left a cushy job to join a startup that we're no longer growing.

突然之间，你告诉一个刚刚辞去舒适工作加入一家初创公司的人，我们不再成长了。

And in fact, your job now is to completely flip what you thought you were going to do on its head.

事实上，你现在的工作就是彻底颠覆你认为要做的事情。

So we named the entire growth team, the slowth team.

所以我们将整个增长团队命名为缓慢团队。

Laura Modi: And I mean, they got creative.

劳拉·莫迪：我的意思是，他们很有创意。

At some point we were emailing subscribers to nudge them to cancel because we were looking for a way to ensure that we could keep product, and my God, it was a mind-boggling moment.

在某些时候，我们会向订阅者发送电子邮件，敦促他们取消订阅，因为我们正在寻找一种方法来确保我们可以保留产品，天哪，这是一个令人难以置信的时刻。

Lenny: What else did you learn from that period that has either stuck with you in this time and/or is there something maybe you think you would've done differently if you could go back?

莱尼：你从那段时期还学到了什么，这些东西要么一直困扰着你，要么你认为如果你可以回去，你会做不同的事情吗？

Laura Modi: Well, I have a personal belief of never looking back and regretting or changing things, but there were definitely some learnings and I would say on the positive end, some of the biggest learnings were just the power of storytelling and bringing the impact of what we were doing back into the company.

劳拉·莫迪：嗯，我个人相信永远不会回头、后悔或改变事情，但肯定有一些教训，我想说的是，从积极的角度来看，一些最大的教训就是讲故事的力量，以及将我们正在做的事情的影响带回公司。

I'm in a fortunate position as the CEO where, whether I'm speaking to advisors or on panels or engaging the outside world a lot more, I was able to truly feel, I mean, viscerally feel the impact that we were having by doing this.

作为首席执行官，我处于一个幸运的位置，无论我是在与顾问或小组交谈，还是更多地与外界接触，我都能真正感受到，我的意思是，发自内心地感受到我们这样做所产生的影响。

Laura Modi: I'll never forget, I was speaking at Davos on this topic and I had a customer.

劳拉·莫迪：我永远不会忘记，我在达沃斯就这个话题发表演讲，我有一位客户。

Oh my God, Lenny, this moment.

天哪，莱尼，这一刻。

I was standing outside of this events area and this woman comes running up to me and she's bawling, crying, and this is at a global leader's conference and she's crying and she just held my hands.

我当时站在这个活动区域外面，这个女人向我跑来，她嚎啕大哭，这是在一次全球领导人会议上，她哭了，她只是握着我的手。

And she's like, "Oh my God, you saved my life over the last year." She's like, "You have no idea the impact that Bobbie played in our lives by making the decision and giving me confidence that you weren't going to run out of product on us."

她说：“天哪，你去年救了我的命。”她说，“你不知道博比做出的决定对我们的生活产生了怎样的影响，让我相信你不会用完我们的产品。”

Laura Modi: And that emotional connection of just, wow, yes, we may have grown the business faster, we may have gotten product back, but at the end of the day, these 70,000 voices that are out there and the stories that they have and bringing those back to the company, it's undeniable the impact, by making that decision, we've had.

劳拉·莫迪：那种情感联系，哇，是的，我们可能更快地发展了业务，我们可能已经收回了产品，但最终，这 70,000 个声音和他们拥有的故事并将它们带回公司，这是不可否认的影响，通过做出这个决定，我们已经产生了。

And I think the rest of the company feels it, too.

我认为公司的其他人也感受到了这一点。

Lenny: This connects with something we've brought up a couple of times now, which is just brand and brand building.

莱尼：这与我们已经多次提到的事情有关，那就是品牌和品牌建设。

Clearly, it's something that you've spent a lot of energy on and something you've done incredibly well.

显然，这是你花费了大量精力并且做得非常好的事情。

I think every mom I know knows of Bobbie.

我想我认识的每个妈妈都知道鲍比。

By the way, let me just throw this out there.

顺便说一句，让我把这个扔出去。

I don't know if I've told you this, but I'm having a kid and we're going to get some Bobbie.

我不知道我是否告诉过你这一点，但我有一个孩子，我们会得到一些鲍比。

Laura Modi: Oh my god, Lenny's going to be a dad.

劳拉·莫迪：天哪，莱尼要当爸爸了。

This is so exciting.

这太令人兴奋了。

Lenny: Oh man, this is going to be a whole new direction.

莱尼：天哪，这将是一个全新的方向。

Laura Modi: I've got your milk, if you need it, of course, if Michelle's in a position and she wants it, we're here for you.

劳拉·莫迪：我有你的牛奶，如果你需要的话，当然，如果米歇尔有条件并且她想要的话，我们就在这里为你服务。

Lenny: Okay, I appreciate that.

莱尼：好的，我很感激。

We're going to get a deal.

我们要达成协议。

Laura Modi: Oh, my God, I'm so excited for you.

劳拉·莫迪：天哪，我为你感到非常兴奋。

Lenny: Thank you.

莱尼：谢谢。

Laura, I feel like we need some formula just in case, right?

劳拉，我觉得我们需要一些配方以防万一，对吧？

Doesn't that-

那岂不是——

Laura Modi: You do.

劳拉·莫迪：是的。

You do.

你做。

And the rule is you have to try it, as well.

规则是你也必须尝试一下。

Laura Modi: Yeah.

劳拉·莫迪：是的。

If baby's going to try it, you need to give it a shot.

如果宝宝想尝试，你就需要尝试一下。

Lenny: Okay.

莱尼：好的。

Okay, okay.

好吧，好吧。

Oh, I'll get ready for that.

哦，我会为此做好准备的。

I like that rule.

我喜欢这个规则。

I like that rule.

我喜欢这个规则。

Okay.

好的。

There's so many things to get used to.

有很多事情需要习惯。

Lenny: Okay, so going back to my question about brand, basically I just want to understand what have you learned about building a brand and when do you think it is important to invest there?

莱尼：好的，回到我关于品牌的问题，基本上我只是想了解您在建立品牌方面学到了什么，以及您认为什么时候投资品牌很重要？

Laura Modi: I mean, it all depends on what your product is, but the first thing I've learned about it is you have to build a brand that connects with what your customers are going through, and the experience.

劳拉·莫迪：我的意思是，这完全取决于你的产品是什么，但我了解到的第一件事是你必须建立一个与客户正在经历的事情和体验相联系的品牌。

I once had someone say to me, "Think about who your customer is and that one customer, the exact person, is going to wake up tomorrow morning and there's going to be three things that are just playing on them in the back of their mind, the things that keep them up at night.

曾经有人对我说：“想想你的客户是谁，一位客户，确切的那个人，明天早上醒来时，他们的脑海里会浮现三件事，让他们彻夜难眠。

And if you are not solving for one of those, then you're going to be finding a way to build a brand and to get in the way of that, get in the way of their mindset, have them remember who you are or what you're about."

如果你没有解决其中一个问题，那么你就会找到一种方法来建立品牌，并阻碍品牌的发展，阻碍他们的思维方式，让他们记住你是谁或你是什么。”

Laura Modi: And it was very clear to us that everything, from who our brand was, what it stood for, the positioning, needed to be something that parents were really finding as a struggle in that first year in feeding.

劳拉·莫迪：我们非常清楚，一切，从我们的品牌是谁、它代表什么、定位，都需要成为父母在喂养的第一年真正遇到的困难。

So you see it in our messaging, you see it in our creative.

所以你可以在我们的消息传递中看到它，你可以在我们的创意中看到它。

I have no desire to bombard people with something that isn't part of those top three things that they're experiencing.

我不想用那些不属于他们正在经历的前三件事的东西来轰炸人们。

Otherwise, we will have companies out there and brands out there being loud for no reason.

否则，我们就会有一些公司和品牌无缘无故地大肆宣传。

And I think that's continued to help us in every time we have to reframe or relaunch something, to keep remembering what do they care about, let's build a brand for them.

我认为，每次我们必须重新构建或重新推出某些东西时，这都会继续帮助我们，以记住他们关心什么，让我们为他们建立一个品牌。

Lenny: I really like that.

莱尼：我真的很喜欢这样。

That is such a good reminder of just, you are not going to convince someone they have a problem unless you're just spending endless money hammering into their head there's a new problem you have.

这是一个很好的提醒，除非你花无尽的钱向他们灌输你遇到了一个新问题，否则你不会让别人相信他们有问题。

If you connect to something they already know is a problem and just make it clear this is a solution to a problem, life gets a lot easier.

如果你联系到他们已经知道是问题的事情，并明确这是问题的解决方案，生活就会变得容易得多。

Lenny: Although I know that you also have to kind of fight this breastfeeding-is-best kind of thing.

莱尼：虽然我知道你也必须与“母乳喂养是最好的”这种说法作斗争。

So in a sense you also have to convince people this isn't what you think it is.

所以从某种意义上说，你还必须让人们相信这不是你想象的那样。

Laura Modi: Yeah.

劳拉·莫迪：是的。

And then, what's the saying?

然后，这句话怎么说来着？

If you're explaining, you're losing.

如果你解释的话，你就输了。

And I think there's a part of this where there's going to be a large group of people that are always going to be in the mindset that breast is the only way to do it, and anyone who does otherwise is doing second best.

我认为，在这方面，会有一大群人总是认为乳房是唯一的方法，而任何不这样做的人都是退而求其次。

And I'm not there to try and convince them.

我不是来试图说服他们的。

I think a part of this is amplifying those that are in need of our products, that are the 83% using formula and make sure that they feel heard.

我认为其中一部分是扩大那些需要我们产品的人，即 83% 使用配方奶粉的人，并确保他们感到被倾听。

But that has been a learning.

但这是一种学习。

I mean, that's been a huge brand learning.

我的意思是，这是一个巨大的品牌学习。

How do you not lean into or amplify the voices that shouldn't be heard and in many ways just get distracted by it?

你如何才能不倾向于或放大那些不应该被听到的声音，并在很多方面被它分散注意力？

Lenny: That's really interesting, and I don't know how much you want to talk about this, but I know initially the brand strategy was basically breast is not best.

Lenny：这真的很有趣，我不知道你有多想谈论这个，但我知道最初的品牌策略基本上是乳房不是最好的。

Formula is just as good.

公式也一样好。

And what I'm hearing is you kind of realized you're not going to convince people of that and it's more lean into people that already understand.

我听到的是，你意识到你无法让人们相信这一点，而更倾向于那些已经理解的人。

Laura Modi: Yeah.

劳拉·莫迪：是的。

And I think another major belief I have is no brand, and I do fundamentally believe this, no brand should ever be in a position of pointing fingers to something that's better or worse.

我认为我的另一个主要信念是没有品牌，而且我从根本上相信这一点，任何品牌都不应该对更好或更坏的事物指手画脚。

Our only job, and I wish politics would also do this, our only job is to talk about what we do and why we exist and why we believe our product is good.

我们唯一的工作，我希望政治也能做到这一点，我们唯一的工作就是谈论我们做什么、为什么我们存在以及为什么我们相信我们的产品是好的。

And I would say the flip is the same in formula.

我想说翻转的公式是相同的。

If a mother out there has access to another brand of formula that is more accessible, maybe more affordable, and it suits their baby, then good for them.

如果母亲能够获得另一种品牌的配方奶粉，这种品牌的奶粉更容易获得，也许更实惠，而且适合她们的宝宝，那么对她们有好处。

And I should never be a company in a position pointing to a competitor or another way of feeding saying that it's worse off, ever.

我永远不应该成为一家指向竞争对手或以其他方式生存的公司，说自己的处境更糟。

Lenny: Today's episode is brought to you by Assembly AI.

Lenny：今天的节目是由 Assembly AI 为您带来的。

If you're looking to build AI-powered features in your audio and video products, then you need to know about Assembly AI, which makes it easy to transcribe and understand speech at scale.

如果您希望在音频和视频产品中构建人工智能驱动的功能，那么您需要了解 Assembly AI，它可以轻松地大规模转录和理解语音。

What I love about Assembly AI is you can use their simple API to access the latest AI breakthroughs from top-tier research labs.

我喜欢 Assembly AI 的一点是，您可以使用其简单的 API 来访问顶级研究实验室的最新 AI 突破。

Product team that startups and enterprises are using assembly AI to automatically transcribe and summarize phone calls and virtual meetings, detect topics in podcasts, pinpoint when sensitive content is spoken and lots more.

产品团队表示，初创公司和企业正在使用装配人工智能来自动转录和总结电话和虚拟会议、检测播客中的主题、精确定位何时说出敏感内容等等。

Lenny: All of Assembly AI's models which are accessed through their API are production ready.

Lenny：通过 API 访问的所有 Assembly AI 模型都已准备好投入生产。

So many PMs I know are considering or already building with AI and Assembly AI is the fastest way to build with AI for audio use cases.

我认识的许多产品经理正在考虑或已经使用 AI 进行构建，而 Assembly AI 是使用 AI 构建音频用例的最快方法。

Now's the time to check out Assembly AI, which makes it easy to bring the highest accuracy transcription plus valuable insights to your customers.

现在是时候了解 Assembly AI 了，它可以轻松为您的客户带来最高精度的转录和有价值的见解。

Just like Spotify, CallRail and Writer do for theirs.

就像 Spotify、CallRail 和 Writer 所做的那样。

Visit assemblyai.com/lenny to try their API for free and start testing their models with their no-code playground.

请访问 assemblyai.com/lenny 免费试用他们的 API，并开始使用无代码游乐场测试他们的模型。

That's assemblyai.com/lenny.

这是 assemblyai.com/lenny。

Lenny: Something else I heard about the way you operate is you, speaking of brand, is you brand internal things.

莱尼：我听说过关于你们经营方式的其他事情，说到品牌，就是你们品牌内部的东西。

Can you just talk about what that's all about?

你能简单谈谈这到底是怎么回事吗？

Laura Modi: Oh, my God.

劳拉·莫迪：哦，天啊。

This is, I feel, like a secret sauce of just how to get it done half the time.

我觉得，这就像如何在一半的时间内完成任务的秘密武器。

And I really, really do believe the power of branding the mundane is so successful.

我真的、真的相信平凡的品牌的力量是如此成功。

I mean, we brand, to be fair, I actually feel like that this was a page out of the Airbnb book.

我的意思是，我们的品牌，公平地说，我实际上觉得这是 Airbnb 书中的一页。

Do you remember going back early days when we were doing customer service deep dives?

您还记得早期我们进行客户服务深入研究时吗？

What were the issues that customers were having?

客户遇到了什么问题？

And we branded a program called Air Dives.

我们为一个名为“空中潜水”的项目命名。

Do you remember Air Dives?

你还记得空中潜水吗？

Laura Modi: And this program just became this thing where everyone wanted to know on a Friday what was the latest Air Dive.

劳拉·莫迪：这个项目刚刚成为这样的事情，每个人都想在周五知道最新的空中潜水是什么。

And really what an Air Dive was was an analysis of customer service tickets and customer service pain points.

Air Dive 的真正含义是对客户服务单和客户服务痛点的分析。

But how much better is Air Dive than a customer service analysis?

但是 Air Dive 比客户服务分析好多少呢？

So much better.

好多了。

So I think a lot of learnings on just the power of branding and storytelling your workflows and your frameworks and what it means to do your job, often keeps people motivated, too.

因此，我认为，大量学习有关品牌化和讲故事的力量以及工作流程和框架的力量，以及对工作的意义，通常也会激发人们的积极性。

And it creates memory recall a lot better, too.

而且它还能更好地唤起记忆。

So now when you prefer Slack channels, they're all like, I don't even want to name them because I'm going to give you-

所以现在当你更喜欢 Slack 频道时，他们都会说，我什至不想说出他们的名字，因为我会给你-

Lenny: No, I was going to ask.

莱尼：不，我正想问。

I'd love some examples and I know they're going to sound ridiculous to an outsider, but what are some examples of things?

我想要一些例子，我知道对于局外人来说它们听起来很荒谬，但是有哪些例子呢？

And you can say like Bobbie Blank, or what's your naming convention?

您可以像 Bobbie Blank 一样说，或者您的命名约定是什么？

Laura Modi: Oh, my God.

劳拉·莫迪：哦，天啊。

Project Shamrock.

三叶草计划。

I'm not going to tell you what that's about.

我不会告诉你那是怎么回事。

Project Lumberjack.

伐木工项目。

Ooh, Got B 2022.

哦，2022 年得了 B。

I can give you so much insight into what these are and I'll give you an example of it.

我可以让您深入了解这些是什么，并且我会给您一个例子。

We have legal approvals that need to get made and these legal approvals on content claims have to happen.

我们需要获得法律批准，并且必须对内容声明进行这些法律批准。

And I was like, okay, well how do we make sure everyone sticks to the quality SOP that legal wants set for all of the claims we have to have in place?

我当时想，好吧，我们如何确保每个人都遵守法律要求为我们必须提出的所有索赔制定的质量标准操作程序？

So we created a program called the Secret Shopping Program, and our regulatory legal team go out and they do their own secret shopping once a month and then they report back on any misleading claims or ones that aren't fully understood that Bobbie needs to go back and update.

因此，我们创建了一个名为“秘密购物计划”的计划，我们的监管法律团队每月进行一次自己的秘密购物，然后报告任何误导性的说法或未完全理解的说法，鲍比需要回去更新。

But having a secret shopping meeting is very different to potentially coming in and listening to legal report out in your claims mishaps.

但是，举行一次秘密购物会议与可能参加并听取有关索赔事故的法律报告有很大不同。

Lenny: Speaking of legal mishaps and copy nuances, one of my favorite memories of you is I was in San Francisco on Divisadero outside, I think, The Mill, and you were just running by heading somewhere and we started chatting.

莱尼：说到法律事故和复制的细微差别，我对你最喜欢的记忆之一是我在旧金山的 Divisadero 外面，我想，磨坊，你只是跑向某个地方，我们开始聊天。

You were heading, I believe, to the warehouse that you're manufacturing the early versions of Bobbie, and apparently the FDA showed up and shut you down because of some misleading communication in the news, as you're launching.

我相信，你们正前往制造早期版本 Bobbie 的仓库，显然 FDA 出现并关闭了你们，因为新闻中存在一些误导性的信息，就像你们正在发射一样。

I'd love to hear that story because I love it.

我很想听这个故事，因为我喜欢它。

Laura Modi: By the way, how you just transitioned from one example I just gave to that was absolutely exceptional, speaking of content mishaps.

劳拉·莫迪：顺便说一句，就内容事故而言，你刚刚从我刚才举的一个例子转变为这个例子绝对是例外。

Laura Modi: This is why you're such a good podcast host, Lenny.

劳拉·莫迪：这就是为什么你是一位优秀的播客主持人，莱尼。

Laura Modi: Oh, my god, that moment.

劳拉·莫迪：哦，天哪，那一刻。

I do remember bumping into you.

我记得我撞见过你。

I was in an identity crisis.

我陷入了身份危机。

Yeah, early days.

是啊，早期。

I think the one big learning I've had is that when you're in an industry where you are disrupting, I mean truly disrupting the status quo, you're going to be met with some reactions, people, or in our case government agencies who aren't happy about what you're doing.

我认为我学到的一大教训是，当你身处一个正在颠覆的行业时，我的意思是真正颠覆现状，你会遇到一些人的反应，或者在我们的例子中，政府机构对你所做的事情不满意。

It was early days, we just launched a pilot and the FDA showed up at our warehouse and they didn't like the way that we were labeling the product.

当时还处于早期阶段，我们刚刚启动了一项试点，FDA 出现在我们的仓库，他们不喜欢我们为产品贴标签的方式。

We had to pull all of our product from the market, we had to relabel everything and we had to work with the agency for another year before we could bring our products back.

我们必须将所有产品从市场上撤下，我们必须重新标记所有产品，我们必须与该机构再合作一年才能将我们的产品带回来。

For startup world, that was a huge, I wouldn't even say it was a pivot, it was a patient pause, thinking sure that we could get back on track and build intentions with the FDA again.

对于初创企业来说，这是一个巨大的，我什至不会说这是一个支点，这是一个耐心的暂停，思考确保我们可以回到正轨并再次与 FDA 建立意图。

Lenny: Another example of slowth, maybe.

莱尼：也许是另一个缓慢的例子。

Laura Modi: Another example of slowth, yes.

劳拉·莫迪：是的，另一个缓慢的例子。

Lenny: How did you personally stay motivated and keep morale up within the company during that period?

Lenny：在那段时间里，你个人是如何保持公司的积极性和士气的？

Laura Modi: Well, I found out I was pregnant with my third child right after.

劳拉·莫迪：嗯，我很快就发现自己怀上了第三个孩子。

Laura Modi: There's something about also growing your personal life while professionally it's happening.

劳拉·莫迪：在职业发展的同时，你的个人生活也会得到发展。

There's a little bit of give and take as well.

还有一点给予和索取。

So sometimes in moment of professional slowth, you might find that there's personal growth.

所以有时在职业缓慢的时刻，你可能会发现个人成长。

That's exactly what I found.

这正是我发现的。

So I mean, yeah, during this journey I went on from being inspired by my first kid where I wasn't able to breastfeed and then had two more along the journey.

所以我的意思是，是的，在这段旅程中，我受到我的第一个孩子的启发，因为我无法母乳喂养，然后在这段旅程中又生了两个孩子。

And I don't know, I've actually never spoken about this, but I do think there's a beautiful marriage in that personal and professional growth that you can have and you kind of need to find moments where you lean into one and maybe the other.

我不知道，实际上我从来没有谈过这一点，但我确实认为，在个人和职业成长中，你可以拥有一段美好的婚姻，你需要找到适合其中一个或另一个的时刻。

And then there's moments, like I kind of feel like I'm going through right now, where both of them are just on fire and you can't slow them down.

然后有些时刻，就像我感觉我现在正在经历，他们俩都着火了，你无法放慢他们的速度。

Lenny: It might be a good time to chat about that.

莱尼：现在可能是讨论这个问题的好时机。

So you have this fast-growing business, you have three kids.

所以你有一个快速增长的企业，你有三个孩子。

Your partner is also a founder, also very busy.

你的合伙人也是创始人，也很忙。

How do you manage all of these things?

你如何管理所有这些事情？

Laura Modi: That question is actually probably the most common question I get from new founders, those that are aspiring entrepreneurs, on just like how do you do it all?

劳拉·莫迪：这个问题实际上可能是我从新创始人、那些有抱负的企业家那里得到的最常见的问题，就像你是如何做到这一切的？

I mean, a lot of it's your infrastructure, it's your...

我的意思是，很多是你的基础设施，是你的......

Actually, hold on a second.

事实上，等一下。

I'm going to do something I don't think you've done on a podcast before.

我要做一些我认为你以前在播客上没有做过的事情。

Hold on.

坚持，稍等。

This is my EA.

这是我的 EA。

I'm going to pull this woman in.

我要把这个女人拉进去。

Everyone just needs to say hi to Kendra.

每个人只需要向肯德拉打个招呼即可。

This woman.

这个女人。

Laura Modi: I'm introducing her because the power of a support system to be able to do what you do, I mean, you are an extension, my leverage, my everything.

劳拉·莫迪：我介绍她是因为支持系统的力量能够让你做你所做的事情，我的意思是，你是一个延伸，我的杠杆，我的一切。

And never leave.

并且永不离开。

Laura Modi: I'd be so screwed.

劳拉·莫迪：我就完蛋了。

And everyone should not only know the power and leverage of their person, but the level of appreciation and celebration you need to have for them is just huge.

每个人不仅应该知道自己的力量和影响力，而且还需要对他们表示巨大的赞赏和庆祝。

Kendra: I always feel celebrated, so thank you.

肯德拉：我总是感到很荣幸，所以谢谢你。

I appreciate it.

我很感激。

Lenny: How do people find a Kendra of their own?

莱尼：人们如何找到自己的肯德拉？

That's the million-dollar question.

这是一个价值百万美元的问题。

Laura Modi: Well, first, you don't take this one.

劳拉·莫迪：嗯，首先，你不要接受这个。

This is a poach-free podcast.

这是一个无偷猎的播客。

Laura Modi: There's no last names here.

劳拉·莫迪：这里没有姓氏。

How do you find your Kendra?

你如何找到你的肯德拉？

I will say it took multiple interviews and it's all about chemistry.

我想说的是，这需要多次采访，而且都是关于化学反应的。

I think it's about chemistry and finding somebody that you genuinely care about.

我认为这是关于化学反应和找到你真正关心的人。

I genuinely care about you, your heart, your kids, your family, and I think finding that connection is really important.

我真诚地关心你、你的心、你的孩子、你的家人，我认为找到这种联系非常重要。

Laura Modi: Yeah.

劳拉·莫迪：是的。

You know what's also funny, too, I think there's this feeling, and I would hear this from folks, how do you do it all?

你知道什么也很有趣，我想有这种感觉，我会从人们那里听到这种感觉，你是怎么做到这一切的？

And I think we also just need to be very transparent.

我认为我们也需要非常透明。

It takes a lot of work to do it all.

完成这一切需要做很多工作。

I, as an operator, am very proud of the infrastructure I have built.

作为一名运营商，我对自己构建的基础设施感到非常自豪。

I mean, we have calendars on our walls, we have calendars for our kids.

我的意思是，我们的墙上挂着日历，我们为孩子们准备了日历。

We have back and forth birthday planning.

我们有来回的生日计划。

It's additional help in the house.

这是家里的额外帮助。

My nanny is the other extension in our house.

我的保姆是我们家的另一间分机。

Laura Modi: I mean, I don't know what we would do without Clifford.

劳拉·莫迪：我的意思是，我不知道如果没有克利福德我们会做什么。

He is everything for us and I also have to see him as an extension to our parenting.

他是我们的一切，我也必须把他视为我们养育子女的延伸。

But that is, I think, the only way to get through the chaos and the only way to embrace the all, is you actually need to put in the work to build the infrastructure, the systems, the frameworks, and then every month, or sometimes in our case on a weekly basis, me and my husband, we have a meeting every Sunday and it's walking through the agendas.

但我认为，摆脱混乱和拥抱一切的唯一方法是，你实际上需要投入工作来构建基础设施、系统、框架，然后每个月，或者有时在我们的情况下每周一次，我和我的丈夫，我们每周日开会，讨论议程。

Who's going to what TaeKwonDo classes this week?

这周谁去参加什么跆拳道课程？

Or who's trading off on birthday parties or parent-teacher meetings.

或者谁在生日聚会或家长会上进行权衡。

Because you're right, a dual CEO-founder household and three kids, it will age you fast if you don't have it.

因为你是对的，一个双重首席执行官兼创始人的家庭和三个孩子，如果你没有它，它会让你很快变老。

Lenny: It also makes me think a little bit about what you talked about earlier where, when things slow down a little bit in the business, there's an opportunity to lean into that part of life and then kind of get ahead on some stuff, in theory.

莱尼：这也让我思考一下你之前谈到的，当业务发展放缓一点时，就有机会深入生活的这一部分，然后在理论上取得一些进展。

Lenny: In terms of the business, I imagine you never started a D2C business before this.

Lenny：就业务而言，我想您在此之前从未开展过D2C业务。

Also, you mentioned you've never formulated a baby formula prior to this.

另外，您提到在此之前您从未配制过婴儿配方奶粉。

Clearly, it's working out.

显然，它正在发挥作用。

What's a lesson there of just doing something you've never done?

只做你从未做过的事情有什么教训？

Is that something you imagined is a good idea?

你认为这是个好主意吗？

Maybe looking back, maybe it doesn't matter.

也许回头看，也许已经不重要了。

What have you learned about just this idea of doing something totally new and different?

从这个做一些全新的、不同的事情的想法中，你学到了什么？

Laura Modi: I think one of the biggest beliefs is that an ounce of naivety will be your biggest secret to success.

劳拉·莫迪：我认为最大的信念之一是，一丝天真将是你成功的最大秘诀。

And I think the word even naivety sometimes gets a bad rap, but naivety is the definition of creativity and innovation and canvas and white space and opportunity.

我认为天真这个词有时也会受到不好的批评，但天真是创造力、创新、画布、空白和机会的定义。

And I definitely went into starting this company with a level of naivety to how regulated it was, to the stigma associated with it, to how hard it would be.

我在创办这家公司时确实对它的监管程度、与之相关的耻辱以及它的难度有一定程度的天真。

But that has allowed me to continue to look at the status quo differently.

但这让我能够继续以不同的方式看待现状。

Laura Modi: I don't, because I don't fully understand it, and I have applied those same principles even into how I hire people because I do think...

劳拉·莫迪：我不知道，因为我不完全理解这一点，而且我什至在招聘人员时也应用了这些相同的原则，因为我确实认为……

I'm now wondering who's going to watch this on my team, because obviously we have some specialists, but this is generalists who make the world go round.

我现在想知道我的团队中谁会观看这个，因为显然我们有一些专家，但这是让世界运转的通才。

I think sometimes putting the most unlikely people who have an ounce of naivety to what it takes to win and succeed are the ones that are going to drive the biggest impact.

我认为，有时，让那些最不可能、有一点天真的人去努力赢得胜利和成功，才是能够产生最大影响的人。

Lenny: I love that.

莱尼：我喜欢这个。

And it makes me think of a couple of things that I'll just share real quick.

这让我想到了一些我将很快分享的事情。

One is I was listening to an interview with Mr. Beast who is the number one YouTube creator on TikTok.

一是我正在听一段对Mr. Beast的采访，他是TikTok上排名第一的YouTube创作者。

I think he's got the biggest TikTok, and he talked about how he's got this business he's building, which is like a new way of creating content.

我认为他拥有最大的 TikTok，他谈到了他如何拥有他正在建立的这项业务，这就像一种创建内容的新方式。

And anytime he hires someone from a traditional Hollywood movie-making established kind of background, he's like, "They know what they're doing.

每当他雇用具有传统好莱坞电影制作背景的人时，他都会说：“他们知道自己在做什么。

They're going to help me legitimize this thing, make it scale." He's like, "Every time, they never work out.

他们将帮助我使这件事合法化，使其规模化。” He's like, "Every time, they never work out.

They just don't see what we're doing here.

他们只是看不到我们在这里做什么。

They don't understand how this is different and they just slow everything down." And he finds just finding really young, hungry, hardworking people that can learn and understand what he's done end up working a lot better.

他们不明白这有什么不同，他们只是放慢了一切。”他发现只要找到真正年轻、渴望、勤奋的人，他们能够学习和理解他所做的事情，最终就会工作得更好。

Lenny: The other interesting insight is I'm doing a series right now on B2B businesses and how the biggest B2B companies started and so far I'm finding 70% of the founders had no specific background or skill in the area.

Lenny：另一个有趣的见解是我现在正在做一系列关于 B2B 业务以及最大的 B2B 公司如何起步的系列，到目前为止我发现 70% 的创始人在该领域没有特定的背景或技能。

They went in to say it's security or sales or something like that.

他们进去说是安全或销售之类的。

So there's a lot of examples of this.

所以这方面的例子有很多。

Laura Modi: I'll give you one example of someone who's in C who's just an absolute rockstar.

劳拉·莫迪：我给你举一个例子，C 中的某个人绝对是摇滚明星。

Our girl who leads marketing is an Emmy Award news anchor.

我们负责营销的女孩是艾美奖新闻主播。

She's not your traditional marketer.

她不是传统的营销人员。

She came in asking me to...

她进来问我...

She was like, "What does CAC mean?

She was like, "What does CAC mean?

Do we need to look at this LTV number?" And the reason I wanted her in C was because she was the complete antithesis to what we would normally define as a good performance marketer.

我们需要查看这个 LTV 数字吗？”我之所以希望她担任 C 职务，是因为她与我们通常定义的优秀绩效营销人员完全相反。

I wanted someone in C who got media, who got brand and storytelling, and she operates like a news anchor.

我想要 C 中的某个人拥有媒体、品牌和讲故事的能力，她的运作方式就像新闻主播一样。

And in many ways I would look to the team that she's built and think that we maybe have more of a media company than we do a marketing team.

在很多方面，我都会关注她建立的团队，并认为我们可能更像是一家媒体公司，而不是营销团队。

And that has been the fuel for the brand that you see today, 100%.

这就是你今天看到的品牌的动力，100%。

And then you hire, unlike the people in those positions and especially senior positions, they're going to do exactly the same throughout the business as well.

然后你雇佣，与这些职位的人，特别是高级职位的人不同，他们也会在整个企业中做同样的事情。

Lenny: That is really interesting.

莱尼：这真的很有趣。

It makes me think of Airbnb a bit.

It makes me think of Airbnb a bit.

Also, the browser company.

Also, the browser company.

We had the founder of that company on here and they have a storytelling team within their company.

我们有那家公司的创始人在这里，他们公司内部有一个讲故事的团队。

Their job is tell the story.

他们的工作就是讲故事。

Lenny: So you talked about how you're hiring people that aren't necessarily deep in a specific skill that you need them to do.

莱尼：所以你谈到了如何雇佣那些不一定深谙你需要的特定技能的人。

What is it that you look for instead that you think is important for them to figure out what they need to be doing?

您认为什么对他们弄清楚他们需要做什么很重要？

Laura Modi: Curiosity.

劳拉·莫迪：好奇心。

A lot of curiosity and just openness to what's out there.

对外面的事物充满好奇心和开放态度。

I definitely look for people who have the ability to make decisions and move fast and not get worried about the outcome.

我肯定会寻找有能力做出决定并快速行动并且不担心结果的人。

That is the biggest learning in a startup.

That is the biggest learning in a startup.

The secret is momentum and just keeping momentum.

秘诀就是动力，并保持动力。

And if we try and perfect everything, you just miss the boat.

如果我们尝试完美一切，你就会错失良机。

And I believe that, what's the common saying, perfect is the enemy of good, or something.

我相信，俗话说，完美是善良的敌人，或者其他什么。

Laura Modi: I mean, it really is.

Laura Modi: I mean, it really is.

So I look for people who just want to do it, just get it done.

所以我寻找那些只想做这件事、完成它的人。

Again, part of that is just rolling up your sleeves and not questioning your job.

再说一次，其中的一部分就是卷起袖子，而不是质疑你的工作。

When I find in interviews and people are really questioning the lanes they're going to be in and the job they're going to do, or "I don't do that." That's saying, "I don't do that." A huge flag.

当我在采访中发现，人们真的在质疑他们将要走的路和他们将要做的工作，或者“我不这样做”。 That's saying, "I don't do that."一面巨大的旗帜。

You do do it.

你确实做到了。

If you're joining this company, if you're within a certain work stream or a certain department and you're behind what the company's working on, in many ways we need people who do do that.

如果你要加入这家公司，如果你在某个工作流程或某个部门，并且你是公司工作的幕后推手，那么在很多方面我们都需要这样做的人。

So I look for just optimistic doers.

So I look for just optimistic doers.

Lenny: I love that.

莱尼：我喜欢这个。

That's such a cool phrase of how to simplify it, what you want to hire and just optimistic doers.

这是一个非常酷的短语，说明了如何简化它、你想要雇用什么以及乐观的实干家。

There's so many people that have big ideas and pontificate strategy, and you just need people doing the thing.

有这么多人有伟大的想法和武断的战略，而你只需要人们去做这件事。

Laura Modi: 100%.

劳拉·莫迪：100%。

I call it intellectual ejaculation, which, if that's not allowed of the podcast, totally wiped.

我称之为智力射精，如果播客不允许的话，它就会被完全抹去。

Lenny: That's allowed.

莱尼：这是允许的。

I'll allow it.

我会允许的。

Lenny: Okay, so you're talking about momentum.

Lenny: Okay, so you're talking about momentum.

I want to talk about growth.

我想谈谈成长。

A lot of this podcast is about growth strategy, how companies grow.

这个播客的很多内容都是关于增长战略、公司如何发展的。

You're building a D2C company.

You're building a D2C company.

D2C is really hard.

D2C真的很难。

There's been so many attempts.

There's been so many attempts.

Most fail, most people can't figure out how to do it scalably.

大多数人都会失败，大多数人不知道如何大规模地做到这一点。

So many challenges.

如此多的挑战。

What have you learned about growing D2C company?

What have you learned about growing D2C company?

What's worked well for you?

What's worked well for you?

Laura Modi: This narrative of D2C isn't working, or D2C is over, D2C is dead.

劳拉·莫迪：D2C 的这种说法行不通，或者说 D2C 已经结束，D2C 已经死了。

It kills me.

它杀了我。

Because we're being way too reductionist in that message.

因为我们在这个信息中过于简化了。

D2C isn't dead.

D2C 还没有消亡。

Just the approach for how people did D2C is a bit dated.

只是人们如何进行 D2C 的方法有点过时了。

We should not be paying for every customer and we should be very careful that people aren't getting hooked on the drug that is paid marketing or performance marketing.

我们不应该为每个客户付费，我们应该非常小心，不要让人们沉迷于付费营销或绩效营销的药物。

And I think that drug, and then obviously as we start to see changes on the way certain performance works, it just becomes more expensive and people are resetting how they do performance marketing.

我认为这种药物，很明显，当我们开始看到某些绩效运作方式发生变化时，它就会变得更加昂贵，人们正在重新调整绩效营销的方式。

The short of it is D2C is not dead.

The short of it is D2C is not dead.

How you drive people to D2C, how you acquire customers, how you build sustainable businesses, that needs to change.

如何推动人们转向 D2C、如何获取客户、如何建立可持续的业务，这些都需要改变。

Lenny: And what is it that you've done that allows you to do that?

莱尼：你做了什么让你能做到这一点？

I imagine a lot of it is word-of-mouth, which everyone always wants.

我想很多都是口碑传播的，这是每个人都希望的。

"How do we do more word-of-mouth?" So what's worked?

"How do we do more word-of-mouth?"那么什么有效呢？

How do you do that?

你是怎么做到的？

Laura Modi: Well, I mean, the three major pieces of it is that the focus on commerce, content and community.

劳拉·莫迪：嗯，我的意思是，它的三个主要部分是对商业、内容和社区的关注。

Lenny: Commerce, content and community.

Lenny：商业、内容和社区。

Laura Modi: So commerce, content and community.

劳拉·莫迪：商业、内容和社区。

But most D2C businesses have put commerce at the top of their list.

但大多数 D2C 企业都将商务放在首位。

We flipped it.

我们把它翻转了。

It's now content, community and commerce, and building good content that is really smart SEO, that has the ability to drive people back to your site to be able to build you as a thought leader.

现在是内容、社区和商业，并构建真正智能 SEO 的优质内容，能够吸引人们回到您的网站，从而使您成为思想领袖。

That's really hard and it takes a lot of work.

That's really hard and it takes a lot of work.

As an example, five years ago we started a platform called Milk Drunk, separate to Bobbie.

举个例子，五年前，我们启动了一个名为 Milk Drunk 的平台，与 Bobbie 分开。

Milk Drunk Blog.

牛奶醉博客。

And the reason why we started it is because we realize that there was a dearth of education in the world of formula out there.

我们之所以开始这个项目，是因为我们意识到配方奶粉领域缺乏教育。

Laura Modi: And what people were really looking for was good recommendations, usability charts, how to make formula, how long does formula last?

劳拉·莫迪：人们真正寻找的是好的建议、可用性图表、如何制作配方奶粉、配方奶的保质期是多长时间？

So we wanted to become the content leaders in that, with the hypothesis, and it's holding true five years later, with the hypothesis that if we win on content and as a thought leader, that will drive back to Bobbie.

因此，我们希望成为这方面的内容领导者，根据这个假设，五年后它成立了，我们的假设是，如果我们在内容上获胜并作为思想领袖，这将回到鲍比。

And today I'm going to give you a totally random example.

今天我将给你一个完全随机的例子。

If you do a cursory Google search for something like "How long does formula last?" Milk Drunk is showing up between the CDC and the bum on the first page of Google?

如果你在谷歌上粗略地搜索“配方奶能持续多久？”之类的内容。喝牛奶的人出现在 CDC 和谷歌首页的流浪汉之间？

That SEO work and that content building and thought leadership and credibility does take a lot of work.

搜索引擎优化工作、内容建设、思想领导力和可信度确实需要做很多工作。

And in the meantime, I've had to squat away requests to put another 100,000, another 300,000 every month into paid marketing because the moment that drug starts, it's very easy to keep it going.

与此同时，我不得不拒绝每月再投入 100,000 美元、另外 300,000 美元进行付费营销的请求，因为药物一旦开始使用，就很容易继续下去。

Lenny: I think Airbnb is a great example of that.

Lenny：我认为 Airbnb 就是一个很好的例子。

During COVID, they shut down paid growth and I think they've turned it on, but it's a tiny component, which is really unusual and really rare, where you have paid growth, you're sending tons of money, Facebook, and then you stop.

在新冠疫情期间，他们关闭了付费增长，我认为他们已经将其打开，但它只是一个很小的组成部分，这真的很不寻常，而且非常罕见，你已经付费增长，你向 Facebook 发送了大量的钱，然后你就停止了。

It's so hard to stop because growth slows and no one ever wants to do that.

停止是非常困难的，因为增长放缓，而且没有人愿意这样做。

And it's interesting, coming back to using a crisis as an opportunity, Airbnb use that as an opportunity to get off that drug.

有趣的是，回到以危机为契机，Airbnb 将其作为摆脱毒品的机会。

Lenny: If you think about the pie chart of what helps Bobbie grow, how much of it would you say is just like make an awesome product that people talk about with other moms and it spreads like that, versus SEO and content and paid?

莱尼：如果你想一下帮助鲍比成长的饼图，你会说有多少就像制作一个人们与其他妈妈谈论的很棒的产品并且它像这样传播，而不是搜索引擎优化、内容和付费？

Laura Modi: 60% of it is your product and the package around the product, which is your brand.

劳拉·莫迪：60% 是你的产品和围绕产品的包装，也就是你的品牌。

So even if you did nothing to market your brand, your product and brand is 60% of it.

因此，即使您没有采取任何措施来营销您的品牌，您的产品和品牌也占其中的 60%。

And then the last 40% is how do you get the word out there?

最后 40% 是如何宣传的？

How do you ensure the word-of-mouth, mom begets mom?

如何保证“妈妈生妈妈”的口碑？

That has to happen.

那必须发生。

That flywheel will only happen if they're able to look at a product that they fully believe in and a brand that speaks to them.

只有当他们能够看到他们完全相信的产品和与他们对话的品牌时，这种飞轮才会发生。

And without that, you're going to be a fast-fashion company, which is also my worst nightmare, the fear that people get distracted by the 40% and the 60% actually is just mediocre.

如果没有这个，你就会成为一家快时尚公司，这也是我最糟糕的噩梦，担心人们会被 40% 的内容分散注意力，而 60% 的内容实际上只是平庸。

Lenny: Something I wasn't planning to ask, but I thought it'd be interesting and we can cut this if it's not interesting, is Emily Oster, she's one of the, I think, pioneers of breastfeeding is not as great as people say necessarily.

莱尼：我本来没打算问这个问题，但我认为这会很有趣，如果不有趣的话我们可以删掉这个问题，艾米丽·奥斯特是，我认为，她是母乳喂养的先驱之一，但母乳喂养并不像人们所说的那么伟大。

Has that been really important to Bobbie in this industry?

这对于这个行业的鲍比来说真的很重要吗？

What do you think of Emily Oster?

你觉得艾米丽·奥斯特怎么样？

I'm a huge fan, so I hope you're also a big fan.

我是一个超级粉丝，所以我希望你也是一个超级粉丝。

Laura Modi: We are massive fans of Emily and Emily's a massive fan of Bobbie.

劳拉·莫迪：我们是艾米丽的忠实粉丝，艾米丽也是鲍比的忠实粉丝。

She is my idol.

她是我的偶像。

She's the one who got me through my first year of pregnancy and then beyond.

她帮助我度过了怀孕的第一年以及之后的岁月。

She has been a really, really important voice.

她是一个非常非常重要的声音。

And actually she has kind of set the stage for the power of data to bust myths.

事实上，她已经为数据的力量打破神话奠定了基础。

I mean, just like you said, she's come out and said, "There is no study, no study at all out there that you can point to that can qualify why breastfeeding is better." And to have an economist, a professor, come out and to be able to underscore that and point to where that is the case and why it is the case.

我的意思是，就像你说的，她出来说，“没有任何研究，根本没有任何研究可以证明母乳喂养更好。”让一位经济学家、一位教授站出来强调这一点并指出情况的所在以及原因。

I mean, it's so much better than a company.

我的意思是，它比公司好得多。

To be fair, companies are brands coming out trying to say that.

公平地说，公司和品牌都试图表达这一点。

So I am acutely aware that, as a business and as a brand, sometimes we need to bring in other credible voices.

所以我敏锐地意识到，作为一个企业和一个品牌，有时我们需要引入其他可信的声音。

And my God, Emily is one of those.

天哪，艾米丽就是其中之一。

Lenny: I love it.

莱尼：我喜欢。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

I'm glad.

我很高兴。

I'm glad you love her.

我很高兴你爱她。

I've been reading all our books.

我已经读完了我们所有的书。

I think I just read that section.

我想我刚刚读过那部分。

Laura Modi: You read her books.

劳拉·莫迪：你读过她的书。

I love it.

我喜欢它。

You're not a dad yet, you'll like all of them, Family Firm.

你还不是爸爸，你会喜欢他们所有人的，Family Firm。

Lenny: Okay, the first two.

莱尼：好的，前两个。

The first two.

前两个。

Cribsheet.

婴儿床单。

I'll stop there, I think.

我想我就到此为止吧。

And I was actually just reading the breastfeeding section and it's funny, one of the only remaining benefits of breastfeeding is less cow farts and creating methane.

事实上，我刚刚读了母乳喂养部分，很有趣的是，母乳喂养唯一剩下的好处之一就是减少牛放屁和产生甲烷。

Unrelated to your child, there's a cow component.

与你的孩子无关，有一个牛成分。

Laura Modi: We do want to cut down on the farts.

劳拉·莫迪：我们确实想减少放屁的次数。

Lenny: We do.

莱尼：我们愿意。

We do.

我们做到了。

Not what I thought of when I thought of why should I go with formula or not.

当我想到为什么我应该选择配方奶粉时，这不是我的想法。

Maybe just zooming out a little bit and to kind of close, are there any other lessons that you've learned along this journey about building a company, hiring, team building, anything along those lines?

也许只是稍微缩小一点，最后，您在这段旅程中是否还学到了其他关于建立公司、招聘、团队建设等方面的经验教训？

Creating urgency, creating momentum?

创造紧迫感，创造动力？

Laura Modi: I mean, momentum.

劳拉·莫迪：我的意思是，势头。

Momentum really is it.

势头确实如此。

We did this a good bit at Airbnb too.

我们在 Airbnb 也很好地做到了这一点。

I think as a founder and as a CEO or for any leader out there, your job is not just to keep people going on momentum.

我认为作为创始人、首席执行官或任何领导者，你的工作不仅仅是让人们保持动力。

Your job is to make momentum.

你的工作就是创造动力。

And sometimes that momentum has to be manufactured.

有时这种势头必须制造出来。

And that has been one of my biggest lessons on just how, as leaders and people starting companies, how do you force yourself?

这是我最大的教训之一，关于作为领导者和创办公司的人，如何强迫自己？

And sometimes when it's early on, you're actually just doing it to yourself, creating manufactured deadlines and launch dates.

有时，在早期，您实际上只是在为自己做这件事，制定制造的最后期限和发布日期。

Laura Modi: The amount of times people say to me, "Why are we launching this May 1st?" And I'm like, "Just because we said it.

劳拉·莫迪：人们有多少次对我说“我们为什么要在今年 5 月 1 日推出？”我想，“只是因为我们这么说过。

Because if we don't do it now, we may never do it." It was something we were talking about the last day on just how important it is to look at the fuel that keeps you going and how you have to kind of force those milestones to get you there.

因为如果我们现在不这样做，我们可能永远也不会这样做。”这是我们最后一天讨论的话题，即关注让你继续前进的燃料是多么重要，以及你必须如何强迫实现这些里程碑才能实现目标。

So yeah, I would say manufacture yourself some momentum.

所以是的，我想说的是给自己制造一些动力。

Lenny: I so agree with that.

莱尼：我非常同意这一点。

One of my favorite things and one of our former colleagues, Vanessa, taught me this, which is just like, "Let's all set an arbitrary deadline right now." And just make it clear, this is just arbitrary, but it's useful.

我最喜欢的事情之一，也是我们的一位前同事瓦妮莎教了我这一点，这就像，“让我们现在就设定一个任意的截止日期。”需要明确的是，这只是任意的，但它很有用。

Lenny: Well, with that, Laura, we've reached our very exciting lightning round.

莱尼：好了，劳拉，我们已经进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。

Lenny: I don't know if I told you this was coming, but it is.

莱尼：我不知道我是否告诉过你这会到来，但确实如此。

I've got six questions for you.

我有六个问题要问你。

Are you ready for exciting lightning round?

你准备好迎接激动人心的闪电回合了吗？

Lenny: Okay, let's do it.

莱尼：好吧，我们开始吧。

What are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people?

您向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？

Laura Modi: One recently, Great by Choice, the author of From Good to Great, amazing.

劳拉·莫迪：最近，《伟大的选择》一书的作者，《从优秀到伟大》，太棒了。

Laura Modi: Some really, really good frameworks.

Laura Modi：一些非常非常好的框架。

Yes, that's right.

是的，没错。

Really good frameworks in there.

里面有非常好的框架。

Metabolical, very specific into the world of health, healthcare.

代谢，非常具体地涉及健康、医疗保健领域。

Actually, very specifically the takeaway of Metabolical is we don't have a healthcare crisis in this country, we have a health crisis.

事实上，《代谢》的具体要点是，我们这个国家没有医疗保健危机，我们面临的是健康危机。

And it really makes you think about the source, food and how we live our lives.

它确实让你思考食物的来源、食物以及我们的生活方式。

It's amazing.

太棒了。

And then I think you a really good traditional one, going back to just brand and for people who are really just looking for a good foundation, I love Purple Cow.

然后我认为你是一个非常好的传统品牌，回到品牌，对于那些真正只是在寻找良好基础的人来说，我喜欢 Purple Cow。

Lenny: I love that.

莱尼：我喜欢这个。

I think I have it in my back around here.

我想它就在我背后。

Lenny: There it is, yeah.

莱尼：就是这样，是的。

Tiny little book.

很小的一本书。

It's so cute.

真是太可爱了。

Lenny: Yeah.

莱尼：是的。

Also, we could mention Emily Oster's book, Laura, Expecting Better.

另外，我们可以提到艾米丽·奥斯特的书《劳拉，期待更好》。

Laura Modi: I mean, we should.

劳拉·莫迪：我的意思是，我们应该这样做。

Expecting Better is a good classic.

《期待更好》是一部很好的经典。

Lenny: Your list is reminding me of a new book by Peter Attia, that I don't know if you've seen, called Outlive, I think it's called.

莱尼：你的清单让我想起了彼得·阿蒂亚的一本新书，我不知道你是否看过，书名叫《Outlive》，我想它就叫这个名字。

It's about longevity and how to live longer and all the latest sciences and how to live a longer life.

这是关于长寿和如何活得更久以及所有最新的科学和如何活得更长久。

But anyway, that's my answer and I'm asking you questions, so let's move on to the next question.

但无论如何，这就是我的答案，我正在问你问题，所以让我们继续下一个问题。

Favorite recent movie or TV show?

最近最喜欢的电影或电视节目？

Laura Modi: Bad Sisters.

劳拉·莫迪：坏姐妹。

Do you have bad sisters?

你有坏姐妹吗？

Laura Modi: About a group of Irish sisters getting up to trouble.

劳拉·莫迪：关于一群爱尔兰姐妹遇到麻烦的故事。

Highly recommended.

强烈推荐。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

What's a favorite interview question that you like to ask when you're hiring people?

当你招聘员工时，你最喜欢问的面试问题是什么？

Laura Modi: Teach me something.

劳拉·莫迪：教我一些东西。

Actually, we just talked about that today.

事实上，我们今天刚刚讨论过这个问题。

Teach me something.

教我一些东西。

Yeah.

是的。

I love getting someone to, not related to work, not related to their job, something in your life, something you find interesting, just teach me about it.

我喜欢让某人做一些与工作无关的事情，与他们的工作无关的事情，你生活中的事情，你觉得有趣的事情，只要教我就可以了。

Lenny: What is it that you look for in their answer that gives you a sense that they're someone that you want to hire?

莱尼：您在他们的回答中寻找什么让您感觉他们是您想要雇用的人？

Laura Modi: Creative, but also just their ability to explain something, and it is a huge indicator.

劳拉·莫迪：有创意，但也只是他们解释事物的能力，这是一个巨大的指标。

I mean, I'll never forget one guy teaching me how to cook the perfect steak, and now every time I cook a steak, I go back to the way he described it, to someone being able to teach me the foundation of Latin.

我的意思是，我永远不会忘记一个人教我如何烹饪完美的牛排，现在每次我烹饪牛排时，我都会回到他描述的方式，回到能够教我拉丁语基础的人。

But if someone's unable to take one thing that they find is core to who they are and what they've done or what they understand and their inability to explain that to you, they may struggle.

但是，如果某人无法接受他们认为对他们是谁、他们做过什么或他们理解什么至关重要的一件事，并且他们无法向你解释这一点，他们可能会陷入困境。

Lenny: I want to learn how to cook a perfect steak.

莱尼：我想学习如何烹制完美的牛排。

I'm going to have to interview you at some point and ask you about that.

我将不得不在某个时候采访你并询问你这个问题。

What's a favorite product you've recently discovered that you love?

您最近发现的最喜欢的产品是什么？

And especially if it's a baby product, that'll be bonus.

尤其是如果它是婴儿产品，那将是额外的好处。

Laura Modi: I mean, yeah, I think Frida Baby's amazing, the nose sucker.

劳拉·莫迪：我的意思是，是的，我认为弗里达宝贝太棒了，吸鼻器。

Laura Modi: Actually, no. Sorry, the nose sucker.

劳拉·莫迪：实际上，没有。对不起，鼻屎。

That's terrible.

太可怕了。

It's the snot sucker.

这是吸鼻涕的。

Laura Modi: As a new parent, you really, really need this, Lenny.

劳拉·莫迪：作为一名新手父母，你真的非常需要这个，莱尼。

Your poor little boy is going to get blocked up and you're going to want to get out that sucker and suck on it-

你可怜的小男孩会被堵住，你会想把那个傻瓜拿出来吸吮它——

Laura Modi: ...

劳拉·莫迪：...

and get it out.

并把它拿出来。

I can see you quickly looking for the next question.

我可以看到您正在快速寻找下一个问题。

Move away from the snot sucker.

远离吸鼻涕的人。

Lenny: Perfect.

莱尼：完美。

We'll just call the episode The Snot Sucker.

我们将这一集称为《鼻涕虫》。

So many options.

这么多选择。

Okay, next question.

好的，下一个问题。

What's something relatively minor that you've changed in the way that you build/ship product that was minor but had a tremendous impact on your team's ability to execute and ship?

您在构建/交付产品的方式上进行了哪些相对较小的改变，虽然这些产品虽小，但对团队的执行和交付能力产生了巨大影响？

Laura Modi: More recently, async work.

Laura Modi：最近，异步工作。

Moving away from meeting culture and being able to be in a position where we can work async, whether it's one-hour sprint over Slack, make decisions and go back and forth, 20 people, and then everyone's made a decision by the end of the hour and we're moving forward.

摆脱会议文化，能够处于一个可以异步工作的位置，无论是在 Slack 上进行一小时的冲刺，做出决定并来回，20 个人，然后每个人在一小时结束时都做出了决定，我们就继续前进。

Lenny: Is there a tool that helps you do that or is it just in Slack?

Lenny：有没有一个工具可以帮助你做到这一点，或者只是在 Slack 中？

"Here's the question we're trying to answer," and everyone-

“这就是我们试图回答的问题，”每个人——

Laura Modi: You know what?

劳拉·莫迪：你知道吗？

Every so often we try and introduce tools and then it's like we've over-processed this entire thing, when what we really just need to do is all just get our head into the moment we're in and brand it and get it done.

我们经常尝试引入工具，然后就好像我们对整个事情进行了过度处理，而我们真正需要做的就是全神贯注，品牌化并完成它。

So even though I think we've introduced some tools, I know we use some video ones as well.

因此，尽管我认为我们已经引入了一些工具，但我知道我们也使用了一些视频工具。

I'm a little bit removed sometimes from everyone working through these tools, but I'm in the Slack world the most.

有时我与使用这些工具工作的每个人都有点疏远，但我最常在 Slack 世界中。

Lenny: Final question, what is your best advice for a soon-to-be parent, aka, me?

Lenny: Final question, what is your best advice for a soon-to-be parent, aka, me?

Laura Modi: Hire a sitter who you love that you want to have on board every Thursday night and keep your date night with Michelle, whatever your date night is, and just don't worry about the price because the date is worth it, but just lock it in and do it.

劳拉·莫迪：每周四晚上雇一个你爱的保姆，让你和米歇尔一起约会，无论你的约会之夜是什么，不用担心价格，因为约会是值得的，只要锁定并去做就可以了。

Lenny: We actually have a date night currently with another couple who has two kids, and so we could just maintain that.

Lenny: We actually have a date night currently with another couple who has two kids, and so we could just maintain that.

How early do you hire a sitter to do that, in their age?

以他们的年龄，你多久雇一个保姆来做这件事？

Lenny: Second week.

莱尼：第二周。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

Not first week.

不是第一周。

Laura Modi: Okay.

劳拉·莫迪：好的。

Maybe second month.

Maybe second month.

It totally depends on how you guys are feeling.

这完全取决于你们的感受。

Laura Modi: That depends on how she's feeling, but I would say sometimes you just need to rip the bandaid and you need to go for it, even if it means the two of you are just going out for a quick meal and you're coming back, keep your date night.

劳拉·莫迪：这取决于她的感受，但我想说，有时你只需要撕开创可贴，你就需要继续努力，即使这意味着你们两个只是出去吃一顿快餐，然后你就会回来，继续你的约会之夜。

Lenny: Laura, this was as fun and insightful as I expected.

Lenny: Laura, this was as fun and insightful as I expected.

I'm going to go try some Bobbie, I'm going to go by snot suckers.

我要去尝试一些鲍比，我要去吸鼻涕的人。

Thank you so much for spending time here.

非常感谢您花时间在这里。

Two final questions.

最后两个问题。

Where can folks find you online if they want to reach out, learn more, learn more about Bobbie, potentially, and how can listeners be useful to you?

如果人们想要接触、了解更多信息、更多地了解鲍比，他们可以在网上哪里找到您，以及听众如何对您有用？

Laura Modi: Okay.

劳拉·莫迪：好的。

Well, the first thing I'm going to say, how listeners can be useful.

好吧，我要说的第一件事是，听众如何发挥作用。

I am hiring a growth product manager right now and we are really focused on optimization.

我现在正在招聘一名增长产品经理，我们真正专注于优化。

So now I'm moving away from everything I just said and I want a specialist who's really good at growth optimization.

So now I'm moving away from everything I just said and I want a specialist who's really good at growth optimization.

And how folks can find us, our website is hibobbie, H-I bobbie, B-O-B-B-I-E.com.

And how folks can find us, our website is hibobbie, H-I bobbie, B-O-B-B-I-E.com.

And if folks just want to reach out to me, I would highly recommend just sending me an email, Laura@hibobbie.com.

And if folks just want to reach out to me, I would highly recommend just sending me an email, Laura@hibobbie.com.

Lenny: And for the hiring position, how do they go apply for that and learn more about it?

Lenny: And for the hiring position, how do they go apply for that and learn more about it?

Laura Modi: Great question.

劳拉·莫迪：好问题。

I'm assuming it's on our careers page on the website.

I'm assuming it's on our careers page on the website.

Lenny: Great.

莱尼：太好了。

We'll make sure it's there before this all goes out.

We'll make sure it's there before this all goes out.

Lenny: Laura, this is amazing.

莱尼：劳拉，这太棒了。

Thank you so much for being here.

非常感谢您来到这里。

Laura Modi: It's such a pleasure, Lenny.

劳拉·莫迪：真是太高兴了，莱尼。

This is so fun.

这太有趣了。

Lenny: It's my pleasure.

莱尼：这是我的荣幸。

And goodbye, everyone.

And goodbye, everyone.

Lenny: Thank you so much for listening.

莱尼：非常感谢您的聆听。

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如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcast、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。

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您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。

See you in the next episode.

下一集见。