Building a world-class data org | Jessica Lachs (VP of Analytics and Data Science at DoorDash)

Lenny Rachitsky: So you've built one of the largest and most respected data teams in all of tech.

Lenny Rachitsky：所以你们已经建立了所有技术领域最大、最受尊敬的数据团队之一。

Jessica Lachs: For me, analytics is a business impact driving function and not purely a service function, not just answering the why, but answering the, "What do we do now that we know this?"

杰西卡·拉克斯：对我来说，分析是一种业务影响驱动功能，而不是纯粹的服务功能，不仅仅是回答原因，而是回答“既然我们知道了这一点，我们该怎么办？”

Lenny Rachitsky: One of your colleagues told me that you are incredibly good at defining metrics.

Lenny Rachitsky：您的一位同事告诉我，您非常擅长定义指标。

Jessica Lachs: Retention is a terrible thing to goal on.

Jessica Lachs：保留目标是一件很糟糕的事情。

It's almost impossible to drive in a meaningful way in a short term.

短期内想要以有意义的方式驾驶几乎是不可能的。

Ultimately, you want to find a short-term metric you can measure that drives a long-term output.

最终，您希望找到一个可以衡量的短期指标，以推动长期产出。

Lenny Rachitsky: You mentioned the early team.

Lenny Rachitsky：你提到了早期的团队。

I felt extreme ownership.

我感到极度的主人翁感。

Jessica Lachs: Yes, you are a data scientist, but your goal is to figure out what's happening.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，你是一名数据科学家，但你的目标是弄清楚正在发生什么。

And if that means that you're going to pick up the phone and call customers, then that is what you're going to do to roll up your sleeves.

如果这意味着您要拿起电话给客户打电话，那么您就需要卷起袖子加油干。

Lenny Rachitsky: Today my guest is Jessica Lachs.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：今天我的客人是杰西卡·拉克斯。

Jessica is Vice President of Analytics and Data Science at DoorDash, which has built one of the biggest and most impactful data teams in tech.

Jessica 是 DoorDash 的分析和数据科学副总裁，该公司建立了技术领域最大、最具影响力的数据团队之一。

She's been at DoorDash for over 10 years and was the first GM at DoorDash responsible for launching new markets.

她在 DoorDash 工作了 10 多年，是 DoorDash 第一位负责开拓新市场的总经理。

Previously, Jessica founded GiftSimple, a social gifting startup and began her career in investment banking at Lehman Brothers.

此前，杰西卡创立了社交礼品初创公司 GiftSimple，并在雷曼兄弟开始了她的投资银行职业生涯。

Lenny Rachitsky: In our conversation, we go deep on how to build and scale your data org, including why a centralized org model is so effective.

Lenny Rachitsky：在我们的对话中，我们深入探讨了如何构建和扩展数据组织，包括为什么集中式组织模型如此有效。

What to look for when hiring data people, how to pick the right metrics for teams to align incentives and drive the right sorts of outcomes.

招聘数据人员时要寻找什么，如何为团队选择正确的指标来调整激励措施并推动正确的结果。

Examples of how the data team at DoorDash has helped the business make better decisions, a bunch of great stories about the early days of DoorDash and a ton more.

DoorDash 的数据团队如何帮助企业做出更好的决策的示例、有关 DoorDash 早期的一系列精彩故事等等。

If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.

如果您喜欢这个播客，请不要忘记订阅并在您最喜欢的播客应用程序或 YouTube 中关注它。

It's the best way to avoid missing feature episodes and helps the podcast tremendously.

这是避免错过专题节目的最佳方式，并且对播客有很大帮助。

Lenny Rachitsky: With that, I bring you Jessica Lachs.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：接下来，我为您带来杰西卡·拉克斯。

Jessica, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.

杰西卡，非常感谢您来到这里，欢迎来到播客。

Jessica Lachs: Thank you so much for having me.

杰西卡·拉克斯：非常感谢你邀请我。

I'm very excited to be here.

我很高兴来到这里。

Lenny Rachitsky: So you've built one of the largest and most respected data teams in all of tech.

Lenny Rachitsky：所以你们已经建立了所有技术领域最大、最受尊敬的数据团队之一。

I've heard from a number of people that look to you for advice when they're trying to build and scale their data teams.

我听说很多人在尝试建立和扩展数据团队时向您寻求建议。

And then DoorDash in particular is an incredibly complex business.

尤其是 DoorDash 是一项极其复杂的业务。

There's three or maybe even four sites to the marketplace.

市场上有三个甚至四个站点。

There's this operational element.

有这个操作元素。

From the outside, it just feels extremely complicated and wild.

从外面看，感觉非常复杂和狂野。

I imagine from the inside it's even more wild.

我想从内部看它会更加狂野。

Let's talk about some of the things you've learned about building and scaling the team.

让我们谈谈您在构建和扩展团队方面学到的一些知识。

You have a fairly contrarian perspective on how to structure data teams.

对于如何构建数据团队，您有相当相反的观点。

This was referenced when we had Elizabeth Stone on the podcast too.

当我们在播客上邀请伊丽莎白·斯通时也提到了这一点。

She approaches data the same way.

她以同样的方式处理数据。

So I'd love to hear just your take on how to structure data teams within companies.

因此，我很想听听您对如何在公司内部构建数据团队的看法。

Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Webflow.

Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Webflow 为您带来。

We're all friends here, so let's be real for a second.

我们都是这里的朋友，所以让我们现实一点吧。

We all know that your website shouldn't be a static asset.

我们都知道您的网站不应该是静态资产。

It should be a dynamic part of your strategy that drives conversions.

它应该是推动转化的策略的动态部分。

That's business 101.

那是商业101。

But here's a number for you.

但这是给你的一个数字。

54% of leaders say web updates take too long.

54% 的领导者表示网络更新时间太长。

That's over half of you listening right now.

现在有超过一半的人在听。

That's where Webflow comes in.

这就是 Webflow 的用武之地。

Their visual-first platform allows you to build, launch, and optimize webpages fast.

他们的视觉优先平台允许您快速构建、启动和优化网页。

That means you can set ambitious business goals and your site can rise to the challenge.

这意味着您可以设定雄心勃勃的业务目标，并且您的网站可以应对挑战。

Learn how teams like Dropbox, IDEO, and Orangetheory trust Webflow to achieve their most ambitious goals today at webflow.com.

立即访问 webflow.com 了解 Dropbox、IDEO 和 Orangetheory 等团队如何信任 Webflow 来实现他们最雄心勃勃的目标。

Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Anvil.

Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Anvil 为您带来。

Their document SDK helps product teams build and launch software for documents fast.

他们的文档 SDK 可帮助产品团队快速构建和启动文档软件。

Companies like Carta and Vouch Insurance use Anvil to accelerate the development of their document workflows.

Carta 和 Vouch Insurance 等公司使用 Anvil 来加速文档工作流程的开发。

Getting to market fast is a top priority for product teams, and the last thing that you or your developers want is to build document workflows from scratch.

快速进入市场是产品团队的首要任务，您或您的开发人员最不希望看到的就是从头开始构建文档工作流程。

It's time-consuming, expensive, and distracts from core work.

它既耗时又昂贵，而且会分散核心工作的注意力。

You could stitch together multiple tools and manage those integrations or you can use an all-in-one document SDK.

您可以将多个工具组合在一起并管理这些集成，也可以使用一体化文档 SDK。

Lenny Rachitsky: Most product managers will tell you, "Paperwork sucks." Anvil's document SDK helps teams get to market fast, incorporate your brand's style, and give you back time to focus on your company's core differentiated features.

Lenny Rachitsky：大多数产品经理都会告诉你，“文书工作很糟糕。” Anvil 的文档 SDK 可帮助团队快速进入市场、融入您的品牌风格，并让您有时间专注于公司的核心差异化功能。

For your users paperwork often starts with an AI-powered web form styled and embedded in your application.

对于您的用户来说，文书工作通常从人工智能驱动的 Web 表单开始，该表单的样式和嵌入到您的应用程序中。

From there, you can route data to your backend systems and to the correct fields in your PDFs via API.

从那里，您可以将数据路由到后端系统并通过 API 路由到 PDF 中的正确字段。

Complete the process with a white labeled e-signature.

使用白色标签的电子签名完成该过程。

The best part about Anvil is the level of customization their SDK provides.

Anvil 最好的部分是其 SDK 提供的定制级别。

Non-technical folks love Anvil's drag-and-drop builder and developers love their flexible APIs and easy-to-understand documentation.

非技术人员喜欢 Anvil 的拖放构建器，开发人员喜欢其灵活的 API 和易于理解的文档。

Lenny Rachitsky: Build documents software fast with Anvil, that's useanvil.com/Lenny to learn more or start a free trial.

Lenny Rachitsky：使用 Anvil 快速构建文档软件，请使用anvil.com/Lenny 了解更多信息或开始免费试用。

That's useanvil.com/Lenny.

那是 useanvil.com/Lenny。

Jessica Lachs: There's two main things that I think are important when you're structuring a team.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我认为在组建团队时有两件事很重要。

The first is I believe that analytics should have a seat at the table just like engineering and product and the business folks, the operators.

首先，我认为分析应该像工程、产品、业务人员、运营商一样在谈判桌上占有一席之地。

For me, analytics is a business impact driving function and not purely a service function.

对我来说，分析是一种业务影响驱动功能，而不仅仅是一种服务功能。

I think there are analytics teams at other companies where they are answering people's questions, maybe even through Jira tickets, we're building dashboards.

我认为其他公司也有分析团队，他们正在回答人们的问题，甚至可能通过 Jira 票证，我们正在构建仪表板。

That was never really of interest to me.

我从来没有真正感兴趣过。

That wasn't the team that I wanted to build.

那不是我想要建立的团队。

Jessica Lachs: For me, it's about finding opportunities, about having a point of view on the decisions that we should make, not just answering the why but answering the so what.

杰西卡·拉克斯：对我来说，这是关于寻找机会，关于我们应该做出的决定有自己的观点，不仅仅是回答“为什么”，而是回答“所以怎样”。

"So what do we do now that we know this?" And so that's definitely one thing as far as my point of view on building a data team.

“那么既然我们知道了这一点，我们该怎么办呢？”因此，就我对建立数据团队的观点而言，这绝对是一回事。

I think the second thing which may be a little more contrarian is I think there are people out there who think that analytics should be embedded into business units.

我认为第二件事可能有点逆反，我认为有人认为分析应该嵌入到业务部门中。

I strongly disagree.

我强烈不同意。

I believe a central model, a center of excellence is superior and I'm happy to talk about why, but that's something that I feel quite strongly about.

我相信一个中心模型、一个卓越中心是优越的，我很乐意谈论为什么，但这是我对此有强烈感受的事情。

We've tried it or I shouldn't...

我们已经尝试过，否则我不应该...

well, we've experimented in the past with the alternative, so putting it into a business unit and it's just much more problematic and I think the value you get from a central model is far greater than some of the things that you might lose.

好吧，我们过去已经尝试过替代方案，因此将其放入业务部门会产生更多问题，我认为您从中心模型中获得的价值远远大于您可能失去的一些东西。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah, let's definitely talk about it.

Lenny Rachitsky：是的，我们一定要讨论一下。

And just to make sure people understand, when you say central versus embedded, is that in terms of reporting lines, in terms of their goals?

为了确保人们理解，当你说集中式与嵌入式时，是指报告关系、目标吗？

Jessica Lachs: It's a great question.

杰西卡·拉克斯：这是一个很好的问题。

So mostly it's in terms of reporting lines because I think on the goal side, that is something where we have the same goals that our partner teams have, and I think that that's actually an important part of a successful central model.

所以主要是在报告关系方面，因为我认为在目标方面，我们与我们的合作伙伴团队有着相同的目标，我认为这实际上是成功的中心模型的重要组成部分。

So when I say central model, it just means that for marketing analytics, marketing analytics is part of the broader analytics team.

因此，当我说中心模型时，它仅意味着对于营销分析而言，营销分析是更广泛的分析团队的一部分。

It does not sit and report in through marketing.

它不会通过营销来报告。

Just to clarify.

只是为了澄清。

Lenny Rachitsky: Got it.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：明白了。

So the reporting functions at some companies, there's the head of marketing or some partners to the head of marketing where the data, say, analyst or biz ops people or data scientists would report potentially to them and that's it.

因此，某些公司的报告职能是营销主管或营销主管的一些合作伙伴，其中的数据（例如分析师或业务运营人员或数据科学家）可能会向他们报告，仅此而已。

And they're not as connected to the core, to the rest of the data team, the rest of the analytics team versus-

而且他们与核心、数据团队的其他成员、分析团队的其他成员的联系并不那么紧密——

Jessica Lachs: So you'd have a bunch of smaller, of course, data teams that sit embedded within the functions.

杰西卡·拉克斯：当然，你会有一群较小的数据团队嵌入到各个职能部门中。

And I understand why business leaders like that.

我理解为什么商界领袖喜欢这样。

You're embedded within the function, so you're a part of the team.

您嵌入到该职能中，因此您是团队的一部分。

That ownership, that camaraderie that comes with that, I think you can solve for that.

这种所有权，以及随之而来的友情，我认为你可以解决这个问题。

But I do understand that that is a benefit.

但我确实明白这是一个好处。

I think the other benefit of course is the business leaders control the roadmaps so they get to dictate the work.

我认为另一个好处当然是企业领导者控制路线图，这样他们就可以决定工作。

They know that they have help and resources in that area when they need them.

他们知道，当他们需要时，他们可以在该领域获得帮助和资源。

So that certainty, that control, I totally understand the value there, but I think that those are two things that you can solve for if you know that those are the biggest issues with a central team.

因此，这种确定性、那种控制力，我完全理解那里的价值，但我认为，如果你知道这些是中央团队最大的问题，那么这两件事是你可以解决的。

So for us, we have a central analytics team, but we are divided up into pods that map perfectly with how product engineering, operations marketing are structured as well.

因此，对我们来说，我们有一个中央分析团队，但我们被分为多个小组，这些小组也与产品工程、运营营销的结构完美匹配。

Jessica Lachs: And so our team de facto has these folks embedded with our partner teams, even though the reporting structure is up through a central org through me.

杰西卡·拉克斯：因此，我们的团队实际上将这些人融入到了我们的合作伙伴团队中，尽管报告结构是通过我的中央组织来实现的。

And that helps the team to feel like they are one team, both in terms of the analytics team feeling like it's one team, but also to use the marketing example, the marketing folks are one team and because the analytics shares the same goals as the marketing leaders, your incentives are aligned to work on the most important things and your success is their success and vice versa.

这有助于团队感觉他们是一个团队，无论是分析团队感觉就像是一个团队，还是用营销的例子来说，营销人员是一个团队，因为分析人员与营销领导者有着相同的目标，所以你的激励措施会一致地致力于最重要的事情，你的成功就是他们的成功，反之亦然。

So I think that that's been really a happy medium, but still preserves all the benefits of a central org.

所以我认为这确实是一个折衷的办法，但仍然保留了中央组织的所有好处。

And there are a lot of them.

而且数量很多。

Lenny Rachitsky: I want to hear about them, but I think something that some people may think when you say essential org is like a silo data team that sits there and they're like a service org a little bit within the company.

Lenny Rachitsky：我想听听他们的情况，但我认为当你说基本组织就像坐在那里的一个孤岛数据团队时，有些人可能会想到一些东西，而他们就像公司内部的一个服务组织。

It's like, "Hey, I need some data help." And you try to convince that, "Hey, I need some help on this thing." And that's not what you're saying.

就像，“嘿，我需要一些数据帮助。”你试图说服“嘿，我在这件事上需要一些帮助。”那不是你说的。

Jessica Lachs: Oh, no. No, no, no. That job seems terrible.

杰西卡·拉克斯：哦，不。不，不，不。那个工作看起来很糟糕。

I don't want that job.

我不想要那份工作。

No, to the earlier point, we have a seat at the table.

不，到目前为止，我们已经在谈判桌上占有一席之地。

We are business partners, we are thought partners with our product counterparts, with our engineering counterparts, with our ops counterparts, and we again, share the same goals and have the same initiatives that they do.

我们是业务合作伙伴，我们是产品同行、工程同行、运营同行的思想合作伙伴，而且我们与他们拥有相同的目标并采取相同的举措。

And it's just our job to come at it from a data-driven place.

我们的工作就是从数据驱动的地方来解决这个问题。

We bring to the table insights on things that we've noticed, deep dives that we do to understand the problems that we're trying to solve better.

我们将我们注意到的事情的见解带到桌面上，进行深入研究以了解我们试图更好地解决的问题。

If we need to grow, what are the most efficient ways to grow?

如果我们需要成长，最有效的成长方式是什么？

What are the trade-offs that we have to make?

我们必须做出哪些权衡？

Where are their pockets of opportunity?

他们的机会在哪里？

That is what I expect my team to be able to bring to that table, the proverbial table, that we want to see that.

这就是我希望我的团队能够带来的东西，众所周知的桌子，我们希望看到这一点。

And in order to earn their spot, that's the deal.

为了赢得他们的位置，这就是交易。

We get the seat at the table and we need to earn it by bringing opportunities that we all can go and go after.

我们在谈判桌上占据一席之地，我们需要通过提供我们所有人都可以追求的机会来赢得它。

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

So in a sense, it is embedded.

所以从某种意义上说，它是嵌入的。

They're embedded in cross-functional teams across the org, but they report up to essential org to you essentially in the end?

他们嵌入到整个组织的跨职能团队中，但最终他们基本上向您报告重要的组织？

Lenny Rachitsky: Cool.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：酷。

What are some of the benefits of this approach?

这种方法有哪些好处？

Jessica Lachs: Oh, there's so many.

杰西卡·拉克斯：哦，有很多。

Okay, so the first thing is a consistent and high talent bar.

好的，所以第一件事是一致且高的天赋吧。

I think this is something I saw when we would have some pockets of analytics folks embedded is having a consistent bar for talent in terms of what we're looking for, what are the technical skills, what are the soft skills?

我认为这是我所看到的，当我们嵌入一些分析人员时，我们在寻找人才方面有一个一致的标准，技术技能是什么，软技能是什么？

And being able to evaluate candidates with that same bar, using our same rubric.

并能够使用我们相同的标准，用相同的标准来评估候选人。

You just get more consistent and higher talent in my opinion.

在我看来，你只会获得更稳定、更高的天赋。

I think that's number one.

我认为这是第一。

Number two is actually growth opportunities.

第二个实际上是增长机会。

So if you're siloed, you may be the most senior data person within...

因此，如果您处于孤立状态，您可能是内部最资深的数据人员......

I keep picking on marketing.

我一直在选择营销。

But you might be the most senior data scientist within marketing.

但您可能是营销领域最资深的数据科学家。

Where do you go from there?

从那里你要去哪里？

I think when you have the central org, you're able to see if there are growth opportunities in other areas within the company.

我认为当你拥有中央组织时，你就能够看到公司内其他领域是否有增长机会。

Jessica Lachs: And so that really helps folks to stay engaged because they can look at new problems if the problems they've been working on for several years are getting maybe boring and they want something new, there's an opportunity, move from marketing over to merchant analytics.

杰西卡·拉克斯：这确实有助于人们保持参与，因为如果他们多年来一直在解决的问题可能变得无聊并且他们想要一些新的东西，那么他们可以看到新的问题，这是一个机会，从营销转向商业分析。

And then I think similarly, if there isn't a promotion or room to grow, if you want to be a people manager and there just isn't a people management role within your functional area, well, you've got 10 other ones to look at and maybe there is that opportunity.

然后我同样认为，如果没有晋升或成长空间，如果你想成为一名职能经理，而你的职能领域内没有人员管理角色，那么你还有其他 10 个角色可供考虑，也许有这样的机会。

So I think it helps with the growth opportunities for the team, which helps to retain talent.

所以我认为这有助于为团队提供成长机会，有助于留住人才。

So that's a second thing.

这是第二件事。

The third thing is just consistency of methodologies and metrics.

第三件事是方法和指标的一致性。

So you don't have sales that was as defined by one team and sales as defined by another team.

因此，您不存在由一个团队定义的销售额和由另一团队定义的销售额。

You just have sales and everybody is using the same metrics, the same methodologies, and you're able to improve your methodologies with input from more people.

你只有销售，每个人都使用相同的指标、相同的方法，并且你可以通过更多人的输入来改进你的方法。

Jessica Lachs: And rather than recreating the wheel, building the same churn prediction model on six different teams.

Jessica Lachs：与其重新创建轮子，不如在六个不同的团队中构建相同的流失预测模型。

You can instead build one and have the input of six different teams.

相反，您可以构建一个并听取六个不同团队的意见。

I think that's definitely another benefit.

我认为这绝对是另一个好处。

Also helps you just scale because you start to see the same problems across teams and so you're like, "Ooh, this is an issue that we need to get ahead of.

还可以帮助您扩展规模，因为您开始在团队中看到相同的问题，因此您会想，“哦，这是我们需要提前解决的问题。

This is something we need to automate," or, "This is something that we need to improve upon," or, "a problem that is going to grow as our business, as our teams scales." So I think it helps you see around corners a little bit more.

这是我们需要自动化的事情”，或者“这是我们需要改进的事情”，或者“随着我们的业务和团队的规模扩大，这个问题将会变得越来越严重。”所以我认为它可以帮助你更多地看到角落。

Jessica Lachs: And then just lastly, there's a team culture brand.

杰西卡·拉克斯：最后，还有一个团队文化品牌。

I think that's really important, not just externally for recruiting top talent, but the team is really proud to be members of the analytics team.

我认为这非常重要，不仅是为了在外部招聘顶尖人才，而且团队非常自豪能够成为分析团队的成员。

We have a unique culture of learning, of sharing.

我们拥有独特的学习和分享文化。

You have someone you can go to talk about your challenges.

您可以找人谈论您面临的挑战。

You have someone who can peer review your work.

有人可以对你的工作进行同行评审。

I think just having that team culture that we have is really important.

我认为拥有我们所拥有的团队文化非常重要。

And it's a lot harder to get when you have the individual silos, particularly in an earlier stage when it's a smaller team, you just don't have as many people around.

当你有单独的孤岛时，这就更难了，特别是在早期阶段，当它是一个较小的团队时，你周围没有那么多人。

Everybody wants to have friends at work and we're creating an environment where they can find like-minded data nerds.

每个人都希望在工作中拥有朋友，我们正在创造一个环境，让他们可以找到志同道合的数据迷。

Lenny Rachitsky: It makes me think about Airbnb's first data team.

Lenny Rachitsky：这让我想起了 Airbnb 的第一个数据团队。

I don't know if you know Riley Newman well, but he built Airbnb's first data team and it was actually an analytics team.

我不知道你是否熟悉 Riley Newman，但他建立了 Airbnb 的第一个数据团队，这实际上是一个分析团队。

They called themselves the 'A-Team' on the point of culture, and that always felt a lot of fun and they loved being part of that team.

在文化方面，他们称自己为“A 团队”，这总是让他们感到很有趣，而且他们喜欢成为这个团队的一员。

Jessica Lachs: Yeah.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的。

We have the same, but now I feel a lot less special for coming up with that name.

我们有相同的想法，但现在我觉得起这个名字不再那么特别了。

Lenny Rachitsky: Oh, you called it A-Team also?

Lenny Rachitsky：哦，你也称它为 A-Team？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, we got the A-Team, yeah.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，我们有 A 队，是的。

Lenny Rachitsky: And then I think they moved away from it when there was a push.

Lenny Rachitsky：然后我认为当有人推动时他们就放弃了它。

Now we're data scientists, we're not analytics or analysts.

现在我们是数据科学家，我们不是分析人员或分析师。

And that was like, I don't know, 10 year ago, like data science.

我不知道，这就像 10 年前的数据科学一样。

We're data scientists.

我们是数据科学家。

Lenny Rachitsky: There's so many threads I want to follow here, one that's a tangent, but something that I think a lot of people struggle with is you talked about how you want your data team, your analytics team to be proactive, to find opportunities, to give you ideas, to help you figure out what to build, not just answer questions.

Lenny Rachitsky：我想在这里遵循很多线索，其中一条是切线的，但我认为很多人都在纠结的是，你谈到了你希望你的数据团队、你的分析团队如何积极主动，寻找机会，给你想法，帮助你弄清楚要构建什么，而不仅仅是回答问题。

At the same time, there are many questions that teams need to get answered.

与此同时，团队还有很多问题需要得到解答。

Do you have any advice for just how to set up a team where they both find time to explore, dig, show opportunities and come up with big ideas and also, "Hey, we just need to figure out the funnel conversion on this thing," or "Hey, what do you think?

对于如何建立一个团队，你有什么建议，让他们既能抽出时间去探索、挖掘、展示机会并提出伟大的想法，又能“嘿，我们只需要弄清楚这件事的渠道转换”，或者“嘿，你觉得怎么样？

What's happening in China right now?" Thoughts there?

中国现在发生了什么？”想法在那里？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, such a good question.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，这是一个很好的问题。

I think it's something that never gets easier.

我认为这是一件永远不会变得容易的事情。

You have to be very intentional to carve out time for exploratory work for deep dives because as you mentioned, there are always more questions and more work to be done than hours in the day.

您必须非常有意识地腾出时间进行深入探索的探索性工作，因为正如您所提到的，总是有比一天中的几个小时更多的问题和更多的工作要做。

And so I think being intentional about it and setting goals for your team around finding these insights through self-directed work is an important mechanism for holding ourselves accountable to that goal because it tends to be the first thing that goes when you get a lot of inbounds, you're like, "All right, well, let's deep dive on something that I don't know if it's really something.

因此，我认为有意识地对待它，并为你的团队设定目标，围绕通过自我指导的工作找到这些见解，是让我们自己对这个目标负责的一个重要机制，因为当你收到很多入站信息时，这往往是第一件事，你会想，“好吧，好吧，让我们深入研究一些我不知道它是否真的是什么东西。

It could be high ROI, it could be low ROI, I don't know." So the expected value is lower than this known thing that I can deliver and make someone happy.

我不知道，这可能是高投资回报率，也可能是低投资回报率。”因此，预期价值低于我可以交付并使某人高兴的已知事物。

Jessica Lachs: So I think to prevent that time from just slipping away, you really have to be intentional.

杰西卡·拉克斯：所以我认为为了防止那段时间溜走，你真的必须有意识。

We would do hackathons for our team to carve out days to just go and look into these really interesting things and find opportunities.

我们会为我们的团队举办黑客马拉松，以便腾出时间去研究这些真正有趣的事情并寻找机会。

And I think we have the support of our business partners because so many great insights have come from these deep dives and it really has been some of the work that drives future roadmaps.

我认为我们得到了业务合作伙伴的支持，因为从这些深入研究中得出了许多伟大的见解，而且这确实是推动未来路线图的一些工作。

So they're always really great at allowing us to have this time and actually encourage us often to have this time for some self-directed work, to go find the next big opportunity.

因此，他们总是非常善于让我们拥有这段时间，并且实际上鼓励我们经常利用这段时间进行一些自我指导的工作，去寻找下一个重大机会。

Lenny Rachitsky: If there's no answer that comes to mind, that's totally cool.

Lenny Rachitsky：如果我没有想到答案，那就太酷了。

But is there an example of one of these insights that someone on the data team came up with that led to something big for DoorDash that you're able to share?

但是，数据团队中的某个人提出的这些见解之一是否为 DoorDash 带来了重大成果，您可以分享一下吗？

Jessica Lachs: So one interesting example was from a hackathon we did a couple of years ago where we were looking at referral as a channel for consumer acquisition.

杰西卡·拉克斯：一个有趣的例子来自我们几年前举办的一场黑客马拉松，当时我们将推荐视为获取消费者的渠道。

And when you compare that channel to others, it was below average in terms of the engagement you'd see from consumers who came through that channel and the payback period.

当您将该渠道与其他渠道进行比较时，您会发现通过该渠道的消费者的参与度和投资回收期都低于平均水平。

And rather than just lowering spend on referrals and moving right along, we really wanted to understand what was happening.

我们不仅仅是降低推荐支出并继续前进，而是真正想了解正在发生的事情。

And so during the hackathon, we did a deep dive into referral.

因此，在黑客马拉松期间，我们深入研究了推荐。

We actually tried referring each other.

我们实际上尝试过互相推荐。

We tried committing referral fraud, creating new accounts to get around rules.

我们尝试进行推荐欺诈，创建新帐户来规避规则。

And we uncovered a lot of fraudulent behavior through this deep dive.

通过这次深入调查，我们发现了很多欺诈行为。

We ordered so many cupcakes to the office.

我们订了很多纸杯蛋糕到办公室。

I remember using referral credits because you had to place an order to be able to get the referral bonus.

我记得使用推荐积分，因为您必须下订单才能获得推荐奖金。

So we would create the account, place the orders, and we just kept ordering cupcakes.

因此，我们创建帐户，下订单，然后我们就继续订购纸杯蛋糕。

Jessica Lachs: And what we noticed was that referral as a channel was a bit misleading when you would look at the average in terms of payback and that it was really a bimodal distribution and you had one group of really great consumers who were referring other really great consumers, and the payback on those consumers was really strong.

杰西卡·拉克斯（Jessica Lachs）：我们注意到，当你查看平均回报率时，将推荐作为渠道有点误导，而且这实际上是双峰分布，并且你有一群非常优秀的消费者，他们推荐其他非常优秀的消费者，而这些消费者的回报非常强劲。

In fact, if that's all you saw, you would spend a lot more on that channel.

事实上，如果这就是您所看到的全部，那么您会在该频道上花费更多。

Jessica Lachs: And then what was happening was you had this other group of consumers that were not as good people who were posting referral codes online and getting people who were just in it to get free discounts and credits.

杰西卡·拉克斯：然后发生的事情是，还有另一群消费者，他们不是那么优秀的人，他们在网上发布推荐代码，并让那些只是其中的人获得免费折扣和积分。

And we had at that point in time, pretty lax fraud rules.

当时我们的欺诈规则相当宽松。

And we didn't have caps on these things.

我们对这些事情没有上限。

All of which came about from this deep dive where we found that this group of consumers was really a drag on the efficiency of this marketing channel.

所有这些都来自于这次深入研究，我们发现这群消费者确实拖累了这个营销渠道的效率。

And so I think that's an example of a few things that we like to do at DoorDash.

所以我认为这是我们在 DoorDash 喜欢做的一些事情的一个例子。

One being these deep dives and taking the time to really understand the problem and then ultimately make a bunch of recommendations for what we should do, including better fraud checks, caps on referrals, et cetera, et cetera.

其中之一就是深入研究并花时间真正了解问题，然后最终就我们应该做什么提出一系列建议，包括更好的欺诈检查、推荐上限等等。

But also how the average can be incredibly misleading.

但平均值也可能具有令人难以置信的误导性。

And so looking at distributions and trying to break down what you're seeing to find ways that you can optimize in ways that you can gain in efficiencies.

因此，查看分布并尝试分解您所看到的内容，找到可以优化的方法，从而提高效率。

Lenny Rachitsky: That's an awesome story, great memory to come up with that one.

莱尼·拉奇茨基（Lenny Rachitsky）：那是一个很棒的故事，想出这个故事真是太棒了。

So this is a really good example of a way to carve out time for the data team to think long-term, think look for opportunities, find big ideas.

因此，这是一个很好的例子，说明了如何为数据团队腾出时间进行长期思考、寻找机会、发现大创意。

So the hackathon is one idea.

所以黑客马拉松是一个想法。

Imagine many data people are struggling often to push back on asks that are just like, "h, we need to know.

想象一下，许多数据人员常常很难拒绝诸如“h，我们需要知道”之类的询问。

We just need this one thing.

我们只需要这一件事。

Here's a question, just answer this one question part." Do you have any advice to data to get better at pushing back?

这是一个问题，只回答这一个问题部分。”您对数据有什么建议，可以更好地进行反击吗？

Sounds like a bit of cultural like, "We have time, we need to work on these bigger things." But just any advice for data leaders or data ICs to find time for these sorts of things?

听起来有点像“我们有时间，我们需要做这些更大的事情”这样的文化。但对于数据领导者或数据 IC 是否有什么建议来腾出时间来做这些事情呢？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, saying no to someone is never fun.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，对某人说不从来都不是一件有趣的事。

I think as a self-proclaimed people-pleaser, you don't want to say no, especially when it's something you can do and you know that you can very easily with maybe an hour's work, make someone happy.

我认为，作为一个自称讨好别人的人，你不想拒绝，尤其是当这是你可以做的事情，并且你知道你可以很容易地通过也许一个小时的工作，让别人开心。

I think it's really important to establish a culture and for leadership to really establish the rules of working and that operating model so that some of the junior folks aren't forced to always have to say no. And I think one of the ways we do that is through our goaling.

我认为建立一种文化并让领导层真正建立工作规则和运营模式非常重要，这样一些初级人员就不会被迫总是说不。我认为我们做到这一点的方法之一就是通过我们的目标。

So because our goals are the same as our business partners, we're able to pretty easily say, "Hey, we've got a limited amount of time.

因此，因为我们的目标与业务合作伙伴相同，所以我们可以很容易地说：“嘿，我们的时间有限。

These are our goals.

这些是我们的目标。

What are the most important things that we are going to work on this week or this month in order for both of us to hit our goals?"

为了实现我们的目标，我们本周或本月要处理的最重要的事情是什么？”

Jessica Lachs: And so when something comes up to be able to say, "Hey, this data poll that you want me to do, is this more important than these other three things that I was going to be working on?

杰西卡·拉克斯：所以当有事情发生时，你可以说，“嘿，你想让我做的这个数据调查，这比我要处理的其他三件事更重要吗？

Yes or no?" And I think sometimes people don't necessarily realize the trade-offs, and when you make them apparent and you put them front and center, they realize that, "Oh, actually, you know what?

是还是不是？”我认为有时人们不一定意识到这些权衡，当你让它们变得明显并将它们放在前面和中心时，他们意识到，“哦，实际上，你知道吗？

That asset's not important.

那个资产并不重要。

That can wait." So I think that that's definitely something I would recommend, which is always share the trade-offs.

那可以等。”所以我认为这绝对是我会推荐的东西，它总是分享权衡。

Don't suffer in silence with, "How am I going to do all four of these things?" Bring it up and say, "Hey, this is what I was planning to do.

不要默默地思考“我该如何做这四件事？”提出来并说：“嘿，这就是我打算做的。

If you want me to do this extra new thing, then one of these other things is going to have to drop.

如果你想让我做这个额外的新事情，那么其他事情中的一件就必须放弃。

Jessica Lachs: I personally don't think that your ask is more important than these three things, but maybe there's new information, maybe there's context I don't have, so let's talk about it." Rather than just being like, "No, I won't do that." That's not a great approach either.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我个人认为你的要求并不比这三件事更重要，但也许有新的信息，也许有我没有的背景，所以让我们谈谈吧。”而不是只是说“不，我不会那样做”。这也不是一个很好的方法。

I think having the conversation and constantly reevaluating your prioritization to make sure you're working on the most important things or your team is working on the most important things is really good hygiene to have with your business partner.

我认为，与业务合作伙伴进行对话并不断重新评估您的优先顺序，以确保您正在做最重要的事情或您的团队正在做最重要的事情，这确实是良好的卫生习惯。

So some teams do that through a weekly standup like, "Here's what we're going to do this week.

因此，一些团队通过每周站立会议来做到这一点，例如“这就是我们本周要做的事情。

Do we like this prioritization?

我们喜欢这种优先顺序吗？

Do we not?" Some folks do it less formally than that.

我们不是吗？”有些人的做法并不那么正式。

I think you got to figure out what works for you.

我认为你必须弄清楚什么对你有用。

But to the earlier point, it's a conversation with your engineering partner, your product partner, your ops partner, you're all on the same team, you're all trying to achieve the same goals and you're all incentivized to have your analytics team working on the most impactful things.

但就之前的观点而言，这是与您的工程合作伙伴、产品合作伙伴、运营合作伙伴的对话，你们都在同一个团队中，你们都在努力实现相同的目标，并且你们都被激励让分析团队致力于最有影响力的事情。

Lenny Rachitsky: This advice is great for any role basically.

Lenny Rachitsky：这个建议基本上对任何角色都适用。

And if I were to summarize it to a couple words, it's just prioritize and communicate what your priorities are and then align on the trade-offs of shifting your priorities.

如果我用几个词来概括它，那就是确定优先级并传达您的优先事项是什么，然后在改变优先事项时进行权衡。

Jessica Lachs: Every once in a while you just throw one over and say, "You know what?

杰西卡·拉克斯：每隔一段时间你就会扔掉一个并说：“你知道吗？

This is quick.

这很快。

I'll do it." At least I do.

我会做的。”至少我是这样的。

I think sometimes just knock it out, build some goodwill.

我想有时只是消除它，建立一些善意。

I think that that's also important.

我认为这也很重要。

But usually it's not something you can do in five minutes and in that case it's that ruthless prioritization for sure.

但通常这不是你能在五分钟内完成的事情，在这种情况下，这肯定是无情的优先顺序。

Lenny Rachitsky: And then there's also the side that you talked about of just show that you can provide value doing these things that are longer term, like prove your worth.

Lenny Rachitsky：还有你谈到的另一面，即表明你可以通过做这些长期的事情来提供价值，比如证明你的价值。

"Hey, look at all these opportunities I found for our team over time, I should keep spending time on these other areas," versus the on fire stuff.

“嘿，看看我随着时间的推移为我们的团队发现的所有这些机会，我应该继续在这些其他领域花时间，”而不是那些火热的东西。

Lenny Rachitsky: When you're hiring people for your team, I'm curious what you look for and you think is incredibly important that maybe other people aren't prioritizing as much.

Lenny Rachitsky：当你为你的团队招聘人员时，我很好奇你在寻找什么，你认为什么是非常重要的，也许其他人并没有那么优先考虑。

What do you focus on when you're hiring?

招聘时你注重什么？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的。

So everybody needs to have a certain set of technical skills.

因此，每个人都需要具备一定的技术技能。

I think that's a non-starter.

我认为这是不可能的。

We have a technical bar, we do a technical screen.

我们有一个技术栏，我们做技术筛选。

So I think that's table stakes.

所以我认为这是赌注。

There's some really unique characteristics that I've noticed when I look at some of the top talent that I've had on the team or have on the team.

当我观察我团队中拥有的或团队中的一些顶尖人才时，我注意到了一些非常独特的特征。

I think the first thing is just curiosity.

我认为首先就是好奇心。

You can't teach curiosity, or at least I haven't found a way to do it.

你无法教授好奇心，或者至少我还没有找到方法来做到这一点。

If somebody else knows how, please let me know.

如果其他人知道如何做，请告诉我。

Somebody who is just self-motivated to pull on the threads when they find them.

当他们发现线索时，就会自发地拉动线索的人。

So they don't just answer a question.

所以他们不只是回答问题。

They're like, "Hmm, this thing seems a little odd.

他们会说，“嗯，这件事看起来有点奇怪。

I'm going to dig in and look.

我要挖进去看看。

Even though I could say I'm done, I answered the question, I did the thing I was going to do." The person that has that curiosity, something seems off, something doesn't really make sense and goes and proactively looks into what that is.

尽管我可以说我已经完成了，但我回答了问题，我做了我想做的事情。”具有好奇心的人，会发现有些事情似乎不对劲，有些事情并没有真正意义，他就会主动去探究那是什么。

That is just so valuable.

这实在是太有价值了。

So I really look for that curiosity and that self-motivation to do it without being told.

所以我真的在寻找那种好奇心和自我激励，在没有被告知的情况下去做这件事。

Lenny Rachitsky: How do you test for that?

Lenny Rachitsky：你如何测试这一点？

How do you do that in an interview and get a sense of if they're good at that?

你如何在面试中做到这一点并了解他们是否擅长这一点？

Jessica Lachs: One way you can do it through the questions you ask is have something that is not quite right within the case that you're presenting and see if people notice first and foremost.

杰西卡·拉克斯：通过提出问题来做到这一点的一种方法是，在你所展示的案例中找出一些不太正确的东西，看看人们是否首先注意到。

And even if they don't, if you point it out like, "Where do they go with that?" I think that that's something that you can test for.

即使他们不这样做，如果你指出“他们会怎么做？”我认为这是你可以测试的东西。

I think you can also ask for examples that for these folks typically will highlight this, they'll talk about, "I noticed this thing, and so we decided to investigate." So I think that there are ways that you can get that signal through the interview process, but it's really hard.

我想你也可以要求提供一些例子，这些人通常会强调这一点，他们会谈论，“我注意到了这件事，所以我们决定进行调查。”所以我认为有一些方法可以通过面试过程获得这个信号，但这真的很难。

I think testing for hard skills is a lot easier than testing for soft skills.

我认为测试硬技能比测试软技能容易得多。

And I think in some of the questions we ask, we'll ask a question with the idea that we're assessing something separate than what the question is necessarily asking.

我认为在我们提出的一些问题中，我们提出的问题的想法是我们正在评估一些与问题所必然要问的内容不同的东西。

And I think that this is one example of where that really works.

我认为这是真正有效的一个例子。

Lenny Rachitsky: You said that you give them a case.

Lenny Rachitsky：你说过你给他们一个案例。

What does that look like?

那看起来像什么？

What is the actual approach to how you do this interview?

您进行这次采访的实际方法是什么？

Jessica Lachs: Our interview process has in the early stages a coding exercise.

Jessica Lachs：我们的面试过程在早期阶段有一个编码练习。

So we do our technical screen and a shortened version of a business case.

因此，我们进行了技术筛选和商业案例的简化版本。

So real world problem solving.

所以解决现实世界的问题。

Typically, it's something actually from DoorDash history, like a real problem that we had to see how people can problem solve on the fly.

通常情况下，这实际上是 DoorDash 历史上的事情，就像我们必须看看人们如何即时解决问题的真实问题一样。

I think that that's an important skill to be able to have, which is, how do you take a problem, break it down, talk through it.

我认为这是一项重要的技能，也就是说，你如何解决问题，分解它，讨论它。

A little bit like some of those consulting cases that you hear about, but something that's really rooted in real problems.

有点像您听到的一些咨询案例，但确实植根于实际问题。

And I think you can learn a lot from those types of cases where, yes, you get to see how people handle ambiguity and structured problem solving, but ultimately most people get something wrong.

我认为你可以从这些类型的案例中学到很多东西，是的，你可以看到人们如何处理歧义和结构化问题解决，但最终大多数人都会犯错。

They make an assumption that's wrong because well, I would hope that the interviewer knows the business better than the interviewee.

他们做出了错误的假设，因为我希望面试官比受访者更了解业务。

Jessica Lachs: And seeing how people react to being told they're wrong is a really important signal in my opinion.

杰西卡·拉克斯：在我看来，看看人们在被告知自己错了之后的反应是一个非常重要的信号。

Seeing how people respond, how they're able to take new information and pivot, how they're able to make a decision.

看看人们如何反应，如何获取新信息并进行调整，如何做出决定。

So that's another thing that I like to see in cases where, hey, you may not know the real right decision.

所以这是我喜欢看到的另一件事，在这种情况下，嘿，你可能不知道真正正确的决定。

You might say, "Hey, I could see it going one way, I could see it going the other way." But I always push people to say, "If you had to make a call right now, what would it be?" So are people able to have a point of view without full information because that's life.

你可能会说，“嘿，我可以看到它朝一个方向发展，我也可以看到它朝另一个方向发展。”但我总是催促人们说：“如果你现在必须打个电话，会打什么电话？”人们是否能够在没有完整信息的情况下表达自己的观点，因为这就是生活。

Sometimes you have to just pick a direction and make a decision even though you don't have perfect information.

有时，即使您没有完整的信息，您也必须选择一个方向并做出决定。

So I like to see some of these softer skills and how they manifest throughout a case interview, even if it's not specifically what I'm asking with the literal problem we're solving in the case.

因此，我喜欢看到其中一些较软的技能以及它们如何在案例面试中体现，即使这不是我具体要求的我们在案例中解决的字面问题。

Lenny Rachitsky: Along these lines, but in a different direction.

Lenny Rachitsky：沿着这些思路，但方向不同。

You don't actually have a deep data science data background before you got into this stuff.

在进入这个领域之前，你实际上并没有深厚的数据科学数据背景。

I know you had some art background, you had an art portfolio back in school, and I think a lot of people wouldn't imagine that for someone being head of analytics for a company like DoorDash.

我知道你有一定的艺术背景，你在学校时就有过艺术作品集，我想很多人都不会想象像 DoorDash 这样的公司的分析主管会有这样的经历。

I don't exactly know the question, but I guess is there anything there that you think would be interesting for people to know or hear?

我不太清楚这个问题，但我想您认为人们有兴趣知道或听到什么吗？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, it's funny.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，这很有趣。

I joke that I have a job I'd never be hired for because I don't have a traditional data science background.

我开玩笑说我有一份永远不会被雇用的工作，因为我没有传统的数据科学背景。

And I know that Elizabeth Stone on her podcast with you talked a lot about her non-traditional background for a CTO.

我知道伊丽莎白·斯通 (Elizabeth Stone) 在她的播客中与您谈论了很多关于她担任 CTO 的非传统背景。

So hey, maybe there's something to it.

所以嘿，也许有什么道理。

But I became a data scientist out of necessity.

但出于需要，我成为了一名数据科学家。

I completely self-taught in terms of SQL and Python and I did it because there was a need at DoorDash for someone to help figure out what the right goals were, how we set those goals, how we were performing different markets early in the DoorDash story, so 10 years ago at this point.

我在 SQL 和 Python 方面完全自学，我这样做是因为 DoorDash 需要有人帮助弄清楚正确的目标是什么、我们如何设定这些目标、我们如何在 DoorDash 故事的早期（10 年前的这个时候）执行不同的市场。

And I think I just gravitated towards that type of work and Tony recognized that superpower in me even though I don't have that formal training.

我想我只是被这种类型的工作所吸引，托尼认识到我的超能力，尽管我没有接受过正式的培训。

So yeah, I'm a bit of an artist for fun, but I guess a data scientist in practice or for career.

所以，是的，我有点像一个为了好玩的艺术家，但我想在实践或职业生涯中是一个数据科学家。

Jessica Lachs: But I think that that non-traditional background has been a great thing because I'm able to hire people who have the technical skills that I don't have, the folks with PhDs in statistics and the data scientists, machine learning and otherwise.

杰西卡·拉克斯：但我认为非传统背景是一件很棒的事情，因为我能够雇用拥有我所不具备的技术技能的人，那些拥有统计学博士学位的人以及数据科学家、机器学习和其他领域的人。

I am able to hire those folks and yet keep them really focused on driving business impact because my background was on the finance side, and so I've always been a pragmatist.

我能够雇佣这些人，同时让他们真正专注于推动业务影响，因为我的背景是财务方面的，所以我一直是一个实用主义者。

And for me, the purpose of our team is to drive business impact.

对我来说，我们团队的目标是推动业务影响。

And so the mix between the technical skills of the smarter people that I've hired, the smarter than myself, and my grounding in driving business impact has been a really great partnership.

因此，我雇用的比我更聪明的人的技术技能与我在推动业务影响方面的基础之间的结合是一种非常好的合作关系。

Lenny Rachitsky: That's quite an inspiring story for someone that is just starting out and doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience in data, but also just generally.

Lenny Rachitsky：对于刚起步的人来说，这是一个非常鼓舞人心的故事，而且不一定在数据方面有很多经验，但也只是一般性的。

I think this is a really cool example.

我认为这是一个非常酷的例子。

You could be successful in a field that you don't have a ton of background in.

你可能会在一个你没有太多背景的领域取得成功。

I'm curious what you think it was in you that allowed you to succeed in this and get to where you are today.

我很好奇你认为是什么让你取得了成功并达到了今天的水平。

What do you think you did right or what is some habits or ways of thinking that you think helped you achieve that?

您认为您做对了什么，或者您认为哪些习惯或思维方式帮助您实现了这一目标？

Jessica Lachs: First off, I have imposter syndrome like everybody else.

杰西卡·拉克斯：首先，我和其他人一样患有冒名顶替综合症。

So it's not like I have this crazy sense of confidence of like, "Oh, I can do anything." I definitely have the same doubts that others have.

所以我并不是有这种疯狂的自信，比如“哦，我可以做任何事情。”我肯定和其他人有同样的疑问。

I think part of it was probably not even realizing what I was doing.

我想其中一部分可能甚至没有意识到我在做什么。

When you're at a startup and things are moving quickly and you see a problem, and I've always liked solving problems, so I was like, "All right, how do I solve this problem?" It was like, "Oh, well, I need access to the data.

当你在一家初创公司时，事情进展很快，你会发现一个问题，而我一直喜欢解决问题，所以我想，“好吧，我该如何解决这个问题？”就像，“哦，好吧，我需要访问数据。

I don't have access to the data.

我无权访问这些数据。

All right, I'll ask an engineer to get me the data.

好吧，我会让工程师给我拿数据。

Well, this isn't going to scale.

嗯，这不会扩大规模。

I can't always bother an engineer, so how do I figure out how to get the data myself?

我不能总是打扰工程师，那么我该如何弄清楚如何自己获取数据呢？

Well, let's learn Python." So I think it happened organically and I don't think I realized at the time what I was even doing.

好吧，我们来学习Python吧。”所以我认为这是自然发生的，我认为我当时并没有意识到我在做什么。

Jessica Lachs: And then I think if you think about things from first principles about what you need right now in front of you to unblock yourself or solve a problem, and you just focus on that instead of thinking about a global org that you're trying to build.

杰西卡·拉克斯：然后我认为，如果你从首要原则出发思考你现在需要什么来解除自己的障碍或解决问题，你就会专注于这一点，而不是考虑你正在尝试建立的全球组织。

I think that that helps.

我认为这有帮助。

So for me, it was always about solving the problem in front of me the best way I could.

所以对我来说，最重要的是尽可能以最好的方式解决我面前的问题。

And if that meant I needed to hire an engineer to report into me through the finance org, then that was what we were going to do and nobody was going to tell me I couldn't do it.

如果这意味着我需要聘请一名工程师通过财务组织向我汇报，那么这就是我们要做的事情，没有人会告诉我我不能这样做。

So I think it's a belief in yourself, and ultimately it's just my desire to solve problems and figure out what has to get done is, I think, ultimately how it came about.

所以我认为这是对自己的信念，最终这只是我解决问题的愿望，并弄清楚必须完成什么，我认为，最终它是如何实现的。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love that so much.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我非常喜欢这个。

There's so many elements there that I think a lot of people can learn from.

其中有很多元素，我认为很多人都可以学习。

I feel like there's also this underlying current of you're just motivated for this to work.

我觉得还有一种潜在的动力让你有动力让这一切发挥作用。

You wanted DoorDash to succeed, and you're just like, "I will do what I need to do to make this happen.

你希望 DoorDash 成功，你就会说，“我会做我需要做的事情来实现这一目标。

I need to solve these problems.

我需要解决这些问题。

I'm not going to overthink.

我不会想太多。

Do I have the skills necessarily to do these things ?"

我有能力做这些事情吗？”

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, I think I'm competitive.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，我认为我很有竞争力。

I think that's a trait that you find in a lot of early DoorDash folks and current DoorDash folks, to be honest, just wanting to win and being willing to do whatever you need to win.

我认为这是许多早期 DoorDash 人员和当前 DoorDash 人员的一个特点，说实话，只是想获胜，并且愿意为获胜做任何需要做的事情。

So roll up your sleeves, do something that's not your job.

所以，卷起袖子，做一些不属于你的工作的事情。

I think back to early days of taking out the garbage on Saturday nights because it needed to get done.

我回想起早期在周六晚上倒垃圾的日子，因为它需要完成。

I think that that was something that is ingrained in our culture from Tony Xu, from our founder and CEO, and I think that really resonated with me, and I feel like I've always operated that way as well.

我认为这是我们的创始人兼首席执行官托尼·徐（Tony Xu）的文化中根深蒂固的东西，我认为这确实引起了我的共鸣，而且我觉得我也一直以这种方式运作。

And I think that that helped me in my career to be able to do what I've done without really thinking about it too much.

我认为这帮助我在职业生涯中能够做我所做的事情，而无需真正考虑太多。

Lenny Rachitsky: Are there any other memories or stories of the early days of DoorDash that would be fun to share?

Lenny Rachitsky：DoorDash 早期还有其他有趣的回忆或故事可以分享吗？

Something that sticks with you of like, "Wow, I can't believe that's what it was like?"

有些事情会让你印象深刻，比如“哇，我不敢相信那是这样的？”

Jessica Lachs: Oh man, there's so many, including so many mistakes that we've made.

杰西卡·拉克斯：天哪，有很多错误，包括我们犯的很多错误。

But I think something that really stands out to me is before I moved to the analytics area, I was actually a GM.

但我认为对我来说真正突出的是在我进入分析领域之前，我实际上是一名总经理。

I was the first GM at DoorDash and I was in Boston in 2014 launching the city of Boston when nobody knew who we were.

我是 DoorDash 的第一任总经理，2014 年我在波士顿推出了波士顿市，当时没有人知道我们是谁。

And we would wake up early in the morning, 5 A.M.

我们会在早上 5 点起床。

and we would go out, it was the winter of 2014.

我们会出去，那是2014年的冬天。

We'd go out and we'd hand out promo codes consumers outside of the in Boston, and these promo cards would be attached to kind bars so people would take them.

我们会出去，向波士顿以外的消费者发放促销代码，这些促销卡将贴在酒吧里，以便人们拿走。

And the whole team, it was a small team, there were four of us, but the whole team would go out in the morning to do this.

整个团队是一个小团队，我们有四个人，但是整个团队都会在早上出去做这件事。

And I think back to our sales guy, shout out to Joey G.

我回想起我们的销售人员，向 Joey G 大声喊叫。

So Joe Graccio is our sales guy in Boston-

乔·格拉西奥 (Joe Graccio) 是我们在波士顿的销售人员 -

Jessica Lachs: And he was gold on signing merchants on the platform.

杰西卡·拉克斯：他在平台上签约商家方面表现出色。

Jessica Lachs: That was how he was gold.

杰西卡·拉克斯：这就是他的黄金之处。

His compensation was tied to that.

他的报酬与此挂钩。

And yet in the morning when we would go out, he was with us handing out promo codes because he was part of the team because he wanted to win.

然而，当我们早上出去时，他和我们一起分发促销代码，因为他是团队的一员，因为他想获胜。

We wanted to grow the business.

我们想要发展业务。

And I think that that is just a great example of the culture that Tony and the early employees and Stanley and Andy, other co-founders really instilled in all of us early in those days.

我认为这只是托尼和早期员工以及斯坦利和安迪以及其他联合创始人在当时早期向我们所有人灌输的文化的一个很好的例子。

So I think that that ownership, that extreme ownership of the outcome is definitely one of the things.

所以我认为这种所有权，对结果的极端所有权绝对是其中之一。

Jessica Lachs: I think the other is just being very customer first.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我认为另一个就是非常客户至上。

And I say customer, I mean consumers, dashers and merchants as all being our customers.

我说的客户，是指消费者、达人和商家，他们都是我们的客户。

And the first time I ever went to the office headquarters in Palo Alto, which at the time was in an animal hospital.

我第一次去帕洛阿尔托的办公室总部，当时是在一家动物医院里。

The first time I went there, there was a huge site outage and the whole company, it was like 20 people at the time, the whole company jumped online to do customer support, to answer the phones, to make sure that folks were getting refunds for orders that weren't going through, make sure the orders that were out there were getting delivered, just dropped everything and hopped on to do support.

我第一次去那里的时候，网站发生了巨大的中断，整个公司当时大约有 20 个人，整个公司都跳到网上提供客户支持，接听电话，确保人们能够获得未完成订单的退款，确保外面的订单得到交付，只是放下一切，跳上去提供支持。

Jessica Lachs: And I was brand new, didn't really know how to use the tools, and so it was like, "How can I be useful?" And so back in those days, we used to order dinner to the office using DoorDash.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我是个新手，真的不知道如何使用这些工具，所以我就想，“我怎样才能有用呢？”那时，我们常常使用 DoorDash 向办公室订晚餐。

And so in order to preserve about three dashers who would've had to deliver food to us, I was like, "I'm going to go out, go out dashing, go get everyone pizza so that we could feed the masses doing credits and refunds and do what we had to to make sure that we were serving our customers well." And I think that night was one of the largest refunds as a percent of our bank account that we had ever given out.

因此，为了保留大约三个必须给我们送食物的冲锋者，我想，“我要出去，冲锋陷阵，去给每个人买披萨，这样我们就可以通过信用和退款来养活大众，并尽我们所能来确保我们为顾客提供良好的服务。”我认为那天晚上是我们所发放的银行账户中最大的退款之一。

And I think Tony, there were two examples that he's talked about where we just gave a lot of money back to customers because it was the right thing to do because our service failed and we wanted to do right by them.

我认为托尼，他谈到了两个例子，我们只是向客户返还了很多钱，因为这是正确的做法，因为我们的服务失败了，我们希望为他们做正确的事。

Jessica Lachs: So I think that those are two stories that stick out in my mind and really highlight culturally what makes DoorDash unique and what I think has been a really important part of our success.

杰西卡·拉克斯：所以我认为这两个故事在我的脑海中留下了深刻的印象，并且真正从文化角度突出了 DoorDash 的独特之处，以及我认为这是我们成功的一个非常重要的部分。

Lenny Rachitsky: It reminds me of the story that Tony and all the early employees, and I imagine you did this just like, "We're dashers," it's like a rotation where you dash for a while.

Lenny Rachitsky：这让我想起托尼和所有早期员工的故事，我想你这样做就像“我们是冲刺者”，就像你冲刺一段时间的轮换。

Is that part of the culture?

这是文化的一部分吗？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, so we have a program, a WeDash program, and Keith Yandell, who's our chief business officer, did your podcast last year and he talked about this.

Jessica Lachs：是的，我们有一个项目，WeDash 项目，我们的首席商务官 Keith Yandell 去年做了你的播客，他谈到了这个。

But four times a year all the employees go out and go dashing or do customer support, and it's part of our culture that I love.

但每年所有员工都会出去四次，参加活动或提供客户支持，这是我喜欢的我们文化的一部分。

I actually go pair dashing, so I go together with one of my colleagues.

我实际上是参加双人赛的，所以我和我的一位同事一起去。

We've done it for years now, and it's a fun thing that we do together four times a year.

我们已经这样做很多年了，我们每年一起做四次，这是一件很有趣的事情。

Actually, usually more than that.

事实上，通常不止于此。

And it's important because you get to use the product, you build empathy with all the audiences.

这很重要，因为你可以使用该产品，与所有受众建立同理心。

I think all of us order DoorDash a lot, so we've built empathy with consumers.

我认为我们所有人都大量订购 DoorDash，因此我们与消费者建立了同理心。

But being able to go and understand what it's like to go out dashing and when you're in the restaurant going and talking with merchants and seeing the experience from their point of view, I think it's just incredibly important.

但能够去了解潇洒外出的感觉，当你在餐厅里与商家交谈并从他们的角度看待体验时，我认为这是非常重要的。

And of course we find a lot of bugs like, "Hmm, this doesn't work the way it should, let me report this." So I think it's also just great for catching bugs in the product.

当然，我们发现了很多错误，例如“嗯，这没有按应有的方式工作，让我报告一下。”所以我认为它对于捕获产品中的错误也非常有用。

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Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Attio 为您带来，Attio 是一种全新类型的 CRM。

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在这个世界上，您的 CRM 功能强大、易于配置且非常直观。

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Lenny Rachitsky：下一个时代的公司需要的不仅仅是一个不灵活的一刀切的 CRM。

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访问 attio.com/Lenny，第一年可享受 15% 的折扣。

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Lenny Rachitsky: I want to come back to a thread, something you mentioned where you and a lot of the early team had felt extreme ownership over the company and that's why a lot of this stuff happened.

Lenny Rachitsky：我想回到一个话题，你提到过，你和许多早期团队都对公司拥有极端的所有权，这就是发生很多这样的事情的原因。

For people, every founder, every product team, they're going to like, "Yes, we need that.

对于人们来说，每个创始人，每个产品团队，他们都会喜欢，“是的，我们需要这个。

Let's make sure everyone on the team feels extreme ownership." Is there anything that you think that the early team did to create that or is it hiring, just pick people that will have that feeling already, or is cultural?

让我们确保团队中的每个人都感受到极大的主人翁精神。”您认为早期团队是否做了什么来创造这种感觉，或者正在招聘，只是挑选已经有这种感觉的人，或者是文化上的人？

Jessica Lachs: I think it's both.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我认为两者都是。

It's definitely cultural.

这绝对是有文化的。

I think it comes from the top and I think that Tony exhibits this extreme ownership and looks for it in others.

我认为它来自高层，我认为托尼表现出了这种极端的主人翁精神，并在其他人身上寻找它。

So I think that helps.

所以我认为这有帮助。

But I think even today I expect of my team that same extreme ownership over the outcomes.

但我认为即使在今天，我也期望我的团队对结果拥有同样的极端所有权。

And so I'm more interested in our team figuring out how to solve a problem than the box that someone fits in like, "I'm a data scientist and so I only do these things." Right?

因此，我对我们的团队弄清楚如何解决问题更感兴趣，而不是某人适合的框框，例如“我是一名数据科学家，所以我只做这些事情。”正确的？

It's like, "No. I mean, yes, you are a data scientist, but your goal is to figure out what's happening, and if that means that you're going to pick up the phone and call customers, then that is what you're going to do." And I think that expecting that and setting that as the norm for the team, this ownership of the outcome is something that we continue to do at DoorDash and instill in everyone whether you were early or just joined last month.

就像，“不。我的意思是，是的，你是一名数据科学家，但你的目标是弄清楚正在发生什么，如果这意味着你要拿起电话给客户打电话，那么这就是你要做的。”我认为，期待这一点并将其设定为团队的规范，这种对结果的所有权是我们在 DoorDash 继续做的事情，并向每个人灌输，无论您是早期加入的还是上个月刚刚加入的。

Lenny Rachitsky: Is there an example of that that comes to mind of someone practicing extreme ownership, like a data scientist calling someone or something along those lines?

Lenny Rachitsky：有没有一个例子可以让我想到一个实行极端所有权的人，比如数据科学家这样称呼某人或某事？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, so I actually had a meeting yesterday morning with the team that's working on some of our affordability initiatives and we had shipped something that we expected to work, and it didn't.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，昨天早上我实际上与致力于我们的一些可负担性计划的团队举行了一次会议，我们已经交付了一些我们期望起作用的东西，但它没有起作用。

And instead of, "You can dig into the data," to understand the segments of consumers that you would expect it to work with and those that it wouldn't, of course we did that.

我们当然这样做了，而不是“你可以深入研究数据”，以了解你希望它能够使用的消费者群体和那些不可以使用的消费者群体。

But ultimately it was like, "I don't know why." And that's where qualitative research is superior to quantitative research, it's asking for the context, to actually talking to people to figure out what was the motivation, what worked, what didn't for them.

但最终却是“我不知道为什么”。这就是定性研究优于定量研究的地方，它要求了解背景，与人们实际交谈​​，找出动机是什么，什么有效，什么对他们无效。

And so the team, data scientists included, just sat and made phone calls.

因此，包括数据科学家在内的团队只是坐下来打电话。

And so they were talking about what they found from those phone calls and that's going to inform future decisions.

因此，他们正在谈论从这些电话中发现的内容，这将为未来的决策提供信息。

And I think rather than saying, "Well, that's what the qualitative research team is supposed to do," it's like, "No, no, no, that is what our team, anyone's team is supposed to do because that's what's needed to unblock us from this next test that we want to run because we need to know what we are testing."

我认为与其说“嗯，这就是定性研究团队应该做的”，不如说“不，不，不，这是我们的团队，任何人的团队都应该做的，因为这就是我们想要进行的下一个测试的障碍，因为我们需要知道我们正在测试什么。”

Jessica Lachs: So I think that it happens every day.

杰西卡·拉克斯：所以我认为这种事每天都会发生。

I think I really love when I see team members go outside the traditional bounds of what a data science role might be and do some product management work, do some engineering work.

我想我真的很喜欢看到团队成员超越数据科学角色的传统界限，做一些产品管理工作，做一些工程工作。

I think that that's part of what keeps the job interesting.

我认为这就是让工作变得有趣的部分原因。

I think it's part of what makes our team special is that that is not only allowed, it's encouraged, and probably also a reason why we've had folks who've gone from my team to the product org and to the ops org and to the finance org is because they get to do and experience parts of that job and get a good sense for what that's like and then realize it's something that they love.

我认为我们团队之所以与众不同的部分原因在于，这不仅是被允许的，而且是受到鼓励的，而且可能也是我们有人从我的团队转到产品组织、运营组织和财务组织的原因，因为他们可以做并体验该工作的一部分，对工作有很好的了解，然后意识到这是他们喜欢的事情。

So I think it's definitely something we encourage at DoorDash.

所以我认为这绝对是我们 DoorDash 鼓励的事情。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love that.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我喜欢这个。

I want to move in a slightly different direction.

我想朝稍微不同的方向前进。

One of your colleagues told me that you are incredibly good at defining metrics, which is so important to get right for a business, especially when it's complex at DoorDash.

您的一位同事告诉我，您非常擅长定义指标，这对于正确开展业务非常重要，尤其是当 DoorDash 的情况很复杂时。

And I hear you're especially good at finding the right metric to drive the right incentive, especially when the business is really messy and things like that.

我听说你特别擅长找到正确的指标来推动正确的激励，尤其是当业务真的很混乱之类的时候。

So I'm just curious what you've learned about how to pick good metrics and align incentives well.

所以我只是好奇你在如何选择好的指标和调整激励措施方面学到了什么。

Jessica Lachs: I've learned a lot of things about metrics, mostly from bad metrics.

Jessica Lachs：我学到了很多关于指标的知识，大部分是从糟糕的指标中学到的。

I actually think you learn a lot from picking the wrong metric.

事实上，我认为你从选择错误的指标中学到了很多东西。

Ultimately, you want to find a short-term metric you can measure that drives a long-term output.

最终，您希望找到一个可以衡量的短期指标，以推动长期产出。

So people always talk about, "Oh, we want to drive an improvement in retention." Retention is a terrible thing to goal on because it's almost impossible to drive in a meaningful way in the short term, and yet you want to be able to experiment and iterate quickly.

所以人们总是谈论，“哦，我们希望提高保留率。”保留目标是一件可怕的事情，因为在短期内几乎不可能以有意义的方式推动，但你希望能够快速进行实验和迭代。

So what are the things that drive retention?

那么，哪些因素可以提高留存率呢？

What are the inputs?

输入是什么？

So I think it's really important to find the right inputs, and then through experimentation test whether or not those short-term inputs are driving the long-term output that you're looking for.

因此，我认为找到正确的投入非常重要，然后通过实验测试这些短期投入是否正在推动您正在寻找的长期产出。

I think that's one thing.

我认为这是一回事。

I think keeping things simple is another thing I've learned over the years, maybe it's data scientists, but they tend to love these composite metrics with a coefficient.

我认为保持事情简单是我多年来学到的另一件事，也许是数据科学家，但他们往往喜欢这些带有系数的复合指标。

Jessica Lachs: "We're going to wait this input at X and this input at X+2." And then you end up with a metric that nobody really understands that doesn't actually mean anything.

Jessica Lachs：“我们将在 X 处等待此输入​​，并在 X+2 处等待此输入​​。”然后你最终得到一个没有人真正理解的指标，它实际上没有任何意义。

And you're like, "I don't know if a 0.1 increase is it a lot?

你会说，“我不知道增加 0.1 是不是很多？

Is it good?

好不好？

Is it bad?" So they're just hard to work with.

不好吗？”所以他们很难合作。

Jessica Lachs: And so I always encourage folks, just pick something simple, even if it's not perfect and your composite would be more perfect.

杰西卡·拉克斯：所以我总是鼓励人们，选择一些简单的东西，即使它并不完美，你的合成会更加完美。

If people understand it, if they have an intuition around it, if it's something that people can talk about across the company, it's going to be a much better metric in terms of driving real outcomes than your made up composite score that nobody understands.

如果人们理解它，如果他们对此有直觉，如果这是整个公司的人们可以谈论的事情，那么在推动实际结果方面，这将是一个比你编造的无人理解的综合分数更好的衡量标准。

So I think keeping things simple is also really important.

所以我认为保持事情简单也非常重要。

And then I think the last thing I'll say is it's important to understand how metrics across the company equate to one another.

然后我想我要说的最后一件事是了解整个公司的指标如何相互等同非常重要。

Jessica Lachs: And so we spend a lot of time quantifying things in terms of a common currency.

杰西卡·拉克斯：所以我们花了很多时间用共同货币来量化事物。

So for example, if I were to lower price by a dollar, what would I get in terms of, we'll say, volume?

举例来说，如果我将价格降低一美元，那么我们会说，就销量而言，我会得到什么？

Well, what if I lowered delivery times by a minute?

好吧，如果我将交货时间缩短一分钟会怎样？

What do I get for that in terms of volume?

就数量而言我能得到什么？

And so now you can make trade-offs between maybe your marketing team and your logistics team because you have this common currency that everyone can talk about.

因此，现在您可以在营销团队和物流团队之间进行权衡，因为您拥有每个人都可以谈论的共同货币。

And so we've done that.

所以我们已经做到了。

We've tried to quantify all of the levers of our business, price, selection, quality in common terms, so that if we have, say, a dollar to spend, we know what we get depending on where we put it, over what timeframe.

我们试图用通用术语来量化我们业务的所有杠杆、价格、选择、质量，这样，如果我们有一美元可以花，我们就知道我们会得到什么，这取决于我们把它放在哪里、在什么时间范围内。

I think that that helps us make decisions more quickly because we know what our options are.

我认为这有助于我们更快地做出决定，因为我们知道我们的选择是什么。

We know we have our inventory of things that we can do, short-term, long-term, and what we get for it.

我们知道我们有我们可以做的事情的清单，短期的、长期的，以及我们能得到什么。

So it definitely helps us to make decisions more quickly and hopefully better decisions.

因此，它肯定可以帮助我们更快地做出决策，并有望做出更好的决策。

Lenny Rachitsky: These are so awesome.

Lenny Rachitsky：这些太棒了。

I definitely want to follow up on some of this.

我绝对想跟进其中的一些事情。

This is so good.

这太好了。

So maybe on this last one, which we did at Airbnb also like, how does everything translate into Knight's book and booking?

所以也许最后一个，我们在 Airbnb 所做的也很喜欢，一切如何转化为奈特的书和预订？

Every decision we make, what is the actual Knight's book impact?

我们做出的每一个决定对奈特的书的实际影响是什么？

And so I imagine in your case, I don't know if you want to talk about these things.

所以我想，就你的情况而言，我不知道你是否想谈论这些事情。

I imagine it's transactions, or purchases, or GMB or something like that, so I'm guessing is the final metric.

我想它是交易、购买、GMB 或类似的东西，所以我猜这是最终的指标。

I don't know.

我不知道。

Is that something you talk about or you don't talk about that?

这是你谈论的事情还是你不谈论的事情？

Jessica Lachs: We measure things in terms of GOV, so Gross Order Value, and also volume.

Jessica Lachs：我们根据 GOV 来衡量事物，即总订单价值和数量。

Lenny Rachitsky: Got it.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：明白了。

.

。

Okay, so basically every other metric that people are gold on as much as you can translate, there's a model that translates that into Gross Order Value and volume?

好吧，基本上，人们所看重的所有其他指标都可以转化为黄金，有一个模型可以将其转化为总订单价值和数量吗？

Awesome.

惊人的。

So when a team is saying, "Hey, we're going to change the onboarding flow and impact conversion here." I don't know.

因此，当一个团队说：“嘿，我们将改变这里的入职流程并影响转化。”我不知道。

I guess what are some examples of other metrics on teams that potentially translate into GOV and volume just to make it even more real?

我想团队的其他指标有哪些例子可以转化为 GOV 和数量，只是为了使其更加真实？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的。

So everything from the example that you started with, which is an improvement in the login flow, how many more consumers are getting onto the app and ultimately placing orders.

因此，从您开始的示例开始，登录流程得到了改进，有多少消费者进入应用程序并最终下订单。

And so you can translate that to, of course, orders and GOV.

当然，你可以将其转化为命令和政府。

But then something as interesting as selling a Thai restaurant in Sacramento, we're able to say, "What do we think that that gets us in terms of GOV from the consumer by selling that Thai restaurant?" So it's every area of the business, it's mobilizing more dashers on the road.

但是，像在萨克拉门托出售一家泰国餐厅这样有趣的事情，我们可以说，“我们认为，通过出售那家泰国餐厅，我们可以从消费者那里获得什么政府价值？”因此，在业务的每个领域，它都在动员更多的冲刺者。

What does that do to our quality metrics in terms of delivery times?

这对我们的交货时间质量指标有何影响？

How does that translate?

这怎么翻译？

So because of that, we're able to figure out if we want to spend the dollar or spend the time, the team's time, on improving conversion or spending more money in marketing or onboarding more dashers or signing more restaurants or adding more grocery stores.

因此，我们能够弄清楚是否要花钱或花时间、团队的时间来提高转化率或花更多的钱进行营销或加入更多的达人或签约更多的餐厅或增加更多的杂货店。

So we are able to look across the whole business and figure out what is the right mix of actions to take to achieve our goals.

因此，我们能够纵观整个业务，找出实现我们目标的正确行动组合。

Lenny Rachitsky: I could see as you talk about this why this is so important in a marketplace, especially a multi-sided marketplace where there's always trade-off decisions between supply investment and demand growth and dasher growth.

Lenny Rachitsky：当你谈论这个问题时，我可以理解为什么这在市场中如此重要，特别是在多边市场中，供应投资与需求增长和冲击增长之间总是存在权衡决策。

I don't even know, my brain would explode trying to think about all these things, so I get exactly why this is so important to business.

我什至不知道，尝试思考所有这些事情时我的大脑会爆炸，所以我明白为什么这对商业如此重要。

Okay.

好的。

And then in terms of the simple recommendation, I think when people hear like, "Yeah, keep it simple," they're like, "Yeah, yeah, we're going to keep it simple." What are some things that point to, "This is not simple," that tell you like, "No, this is way too complicated.

然后就简单的建议而言，我认为当人们听到“是的，保持简单”时，他们会说，“是的，是的，我们将保持简单。”有哪些事情表明“这并不简单”，告诉你“不，这太复杂了。

You should try to simplify this metric even though it's not ideal.

您应该尝试简化此指标，即使它并不理想。

It's not the perfect metric, but it needs to be simpler."

这不是完美的指标，但它需要更简单。”

Jessica Lachs: Yeah.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的。

So we had a score for merchant health, which we tried experimenting with, which was a combination of factors that we had found would lead to a merchant being on the platform and getting an order.

因此，我们对商家的健康状况进行了评分，我们尝试对此进行试验，这是我们发现会导致商家进入平台并获得订单的因素的组合。

So we wanted to make sure that the merchant had active hours on the platform and had images and had a full menu that was accurate and robust.

因此，我们希望确保商家在平台上有活跃时间、有图像、有准确而可靠的完整菜单。

A number of different inputs.

许多不同的输入。

And we created a composite that weighted all of these different inputs.

我们创建了一个对所有这些不同输入进行加权的组合。

And then we were like, "What is our merchant health score?" And you were like, "It's 0.35.

然后我们就想，“我们的商家健康评分是多少？”你会说，“是 0.35。

It's not 35%.

这不是35%。

So what is that, that 0.35?

那么那个 0.35 是什么？

I don't know what it is." So instead of that, we said, "What are the most important factors in order...

我不知道那是什么。”因此，我们说的是，“顺序中最重要的因素是什么......

First, let's measure how many of the new merchants are getting an order within their first, say, seven days on the platform.

首先，我们来衡量一下有多少新商家在进入平台的第一天（比如 7 天内）就收到了订单。

Jessica Lachs: And then let's look at how many of our merchants are doing these things we know are important.

杰西卡·拉克斯：然后让我们看看有多少商家正在做这些我们知道很重要的事情。

So these inputs.

所以这些输入。

So let's goal our team on getting merchant photo coverage up.

因此，让我们的团队以提高商家照片覆盖率为目标。

Let's goal the team on making sure that we have open hours, accurate hours." So yes, someone might say it's simpler to have a composite metric, but it was so hard to understand what it was and how to move it that it became meaningless.

让我们团队的目标是确保我们有准确的开放时间。”所以，是的，有人可能会说使用复合指标更简单，但是很难理解它是什么以及如何移动它，以至于它变得毫无意义。

And ultimately moving to something that was simpler to understand, even if it meant having three metrics instead of one, it ultimately was better for the team because folks knew what they were trying to move.

最终转向更容易理解的东西，即使这意味着拥有三个指标而不是一个，最终对团队来说更好，因为人们知道他们想要改变什么。

And so yeah, maybe we missed number four, five and six on the list of things, but you got one through three and that's 95% of it anyway.

所以，是的，也许我们错过了清单上的第四、第五和第六，但你得到了第一到第三，无论如何这就是 95% 的了。

So once we get success with that 95, then let's talk about figuring out the other 5%.

因此，一旦我们在 95% 上取得了成功，那么我们就可以讨论如何计算出另外 5% 的问题。

Lenny Rachitsky: It's so funny because this is exactly what we went through at Airbnb, we had, we call that a healthy host.

Lenny Rachitsky：这很有趣，因为这正是我们在 Airbnb 所经历的，我们称之为健康的房东。

I led the host quality team for a while and we came up with this healthy host metric that was six factors of a host, like the cancellation rate, the review rate, their response rate and things like that.

我领导了房东质量团队一段时间，我们提出了这个健康的房东指标，它是房东的六个因素，例如取消率、评论率、回复率等等。

And then we're just like, "Cool, let's move this, let make more hosts healthy." And then you end up like, "Okay, which one do we focus on?," And, "Oh, what about all these others?" And we ended up basically focusing on one at a time.

然后我们就想，“酷，让我们移动这个，让更多的主机保持健康。”然后你就会想，“好吧，我们应该关注哪一个？”，“哦，其他的呢？”我们最终基本上一次专注于一个。

And so let's just make that the goal for now and then rotate through the different biggest opportunities to move.

因此，让我们暂时以此为目标，然后轮流寻找不同的最大的行动机会。

.

。

Jessica Lachs: Exactly.

杰西卡·拉克斯：没错。

I think in hindsight for the example you give, which of those six things are actually the most important?

我认为事后看来，对于你给出的例子，这六件事中哪一件实际上是最重要的？

And if you're able to then quantify which one matters most, you work on that one first and you materially move that one and then you work on the next one.

如果你能够量化哪一个最重要，你就先处理那个，然后实质性地移动那个，然后再处理下一个。

You want to move them all.

你想把它们全部搬走。

But being able to prioritize and know what you're going to get for a 20% improvement in, say, your cancellation rate, that's where analytics I think can add a lot of value.

但我认为，如果能够确定优先级并知道将取消率提高 20% 会带来什么，这就是分析可以增加很多价值的地方。

Because yes, ultimately you'll get to all of them, but the way you do that and the time can have a meaningful impact on your growth.

因为是的，最终你会得到所有这些，但你这样做的方式和时间会对你的成长产生有意义的影响。

If you can target the most problematic things first and solve those, you get more bang for your buck and that compounds over time.

如果你能首先瞄准最有问题的事情并解决它们，你就会得到更多的回报，并且随着时间的推移，效果会更加显着。

And so doing the things that matter first and most quickly is a competitive advantage in my opinion.

因此，在我看来，首先、最快地做重要的事情是一种竞争优势。

Lenny Rachitsky: The other thing we found along those same lines is rotating between different metrics is so not efficient because you get good at, "We're going to move this metric." And your team's like, "Cool, we totally understand this lever," like cancellation rate.

Lenny Rachitsky：我们沿着同样的思路发现的另一件事是在不同指标之间轮换效率很低，因为你擅长“我们将移动这个指标”。你的团队会说，“酷，我们完全理解这个杠杆”，比如取消率。

We become really smart at cancellation rate and then three months later, you need to switch to response rate and they have to learn a whole new paradigm of how to think about it.

我们在取消率方面变得非常聪明，然后三个月后，您需要切换到响应率，他们必须学习如何思考它的全新范式。

And it's just super inefficient.

而且效率非常低。

So we found basically, just keep a team on the metric until there's no more opportunities and give another team one of these other metrics.

所以我们发现基本上，只需让一个团队保留该指标，直到没有更多机会，然后为另一个团队提供这些其他指标之一。

Lenny Rachitsky: So many lessons.

Lenny Rachitsky：很多教训。

Okay.

好的。

And the first thing you said on how to pick a good metric about this idea of short-term metrics that have long-term impact.

您所说的第一件事是如何选择一个好的指标，即具有长期影响的短期指标。

How did you phrase that again?

你又是如何表述的？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, so we find proxy metrics for long-term outcomes.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，所以我们找到了长期结果的代理指标。

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

And it's similar to the simple metric, and it all comes down to, again, just like the metric should be something probably, you can move, you can understand, that's close enough to this ideal, perfect metric, but isn't necessarily the entire ideal.

它类似于简单的指标，这一切都归结为，就像指标应该是可能的，你可以移动，你可以理解，它足够接近这个理想的、完美的指标，但不一定是完整的理想。

Okay, awesome.

好吧，太棒了。

Anything else along these lines of just picking metrics, working with metrics that you've learned that would be worth ?

除了选择指标、使用您已经学到的指标之外，还有什么其他值得做的事情吗？

Jessica Lachs: With metrics, we are often looking at the average, and I think we talked about this a little bit earlier, but making sure that you're looking at the edge cases and your fail states is also really important.

杰西卡·拉克斯（Jessica Lachs）：对于指标，我们经常关注平均值，我想我们早些时候讨论过这一点，但确保您正在关注边缘情况和失败状态也非常重要。

And so we often will set goals actually and create metrics around those edge cases.

因此，我们通常会实际设定目标并围绕这些边缘情况创建指标。

So like the disaster deliveries, the ones that go terribly wrong.

就像灾难交付一样，那些出了严重问题的交付。

So we have this concept of Never Delivered, which is orders that are never delivered.

所以我们就有了Never Delivered这个概念，就是从未交付的订单。

We're really great at naming things at DoorDash, and they're very rare.

DoorDash 非常擅长为事物命名，而且它们非常罕见。

And so if you were just looking at the average effect or the average consumer experience, it would never come up.

因此，如果你只关注平均效果或平均消费者体验，它永远不会出现。

If you were just measuring quality based on average values of delivery times and lateness , these wouldn't show up because they are so rare, but they're terrible.

如果您只是根据交货时间和延迟的平均值来衡量质量，这些就不会出现，因为它们非常罕见，但它们很糟糕。

They're terrible experiences for consumers.

对于消费者来说，它们是糟糕的体验。

They lead to churn.

它们会导致客户流失。

Jessica Lachs: They're incredibly expensive because you're refunding an order or repurchasing food and having to send another dasher to deliver that repurchased food.

杰西卡·拉克斯：它们非常昂贵，因为你要退款或重新购买食物，并且必须派另一个冲刺者来运送重新购买的食物。

So they're very expensive, they're costly from a consumer experience standpoint.

所以它们非常昂贵，从消费者体验的角度来看它们的成本很高。

And I think if you're not looking for these fail states, they are often missed.

我认为，如果您不寻找这些失败状态，它们通常会被错过。

So I think when you're picking metrics, yes, you want to improve engagement and you want to improve conversion, and there's a lot of things that are averages overall that you want to move, but it's so important to find these edge cases in these fail states and actually set concrete goals around eliminating them because it can be really powerful.

所以我认为，当你选择指标时，是的，你想要提高参与度，你想要提高转化率，并且有很多东西是你想要改变的总体平均值，但在这些失败状态中找到这些边缘情况并实际设定消除它们的具体目标非常重要，因为它非常强大。

Lenny Rachitsky: So the tip here is actually make that a goal like, never deliver at some team, just keep cutting that down?

Lenny Rachitsky：所以这里的建议实际上是把这个目标定为，永远不要在某个团队中交付，只是不断削减它？

Jessica Lachs: Exactly.

杰西卡·拉克斯：没错。

So we have part of our quality analytics team and we have product engineering and ops on it as well.

因此，我们有质量分析团队的一部分，我们也有产品工程和运营人员。

Their goal is to eradicate Never Delivered.

他们的目标是根除 Never Delivered。

And in order to do that, you have to understand why they happen.

为了做到这一点，你必须理解它们为什么会发生。

Sometimes it's human error, sometimes it's fraud.

有时是人为错误，有时是欺诈。

And then figure out ways that you can prevent them, that you can fix them while it's happening and ultimately just get rid of them from the system.

然后找出可以预防它们的方法，可以在它们发生时修复它们，并最终将它们从系统中删除。

And you're never going to completely get rid of them, but you can make a meaningful impact to make them even more rare than a fraction of a percent.

你永远不会完全摆脱它们，但你可以产生有意义的影响，使它们变得比百分之一更稀有。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。

And I feel like people may be hearing this and like, "Of course, why would you not focus on terrible work experiences?" But I think in most companies, they look at the big numbers, they look at the averages as you said like, "Oh, it almost never happens.

我觉得人们可能会听到这个并且喜欢，“当然，你为什么不关注糟糕的工作经历呢？”但我认为在大多数公司中，他们关注的是大数字，他们关注的是平均值，就像你说的那样，“哦，这几乎从未发生过。

Why do we even spend any time on this?" And your point is, you should actually spend time on these really terrible experiences, even if it's a tiny portion of your business.

我们为什么要花时间在这上面？”你的观点是，你实际上应该花时间在这些非常糟糕的经历上，即使它只占你业务的一小部分。

I guess maybe share why that's important.

我想也许可以分享为什么这很重要。

Is it just because that has trickle-down effects on the brand?

仅仅是因为这会对品牌产生涓滴效应吗？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, I think it's a couple of things.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，我认为有几件事。

So just because something doesn't happen frequently doesn't mean that it's not important.

因此，某件事不经常发生并不意味着它不重要。

So the Never Delivered example is a great one in that this is leading directly to churn and it's also costing a lot of money far more than its frequency would suggest.

因此，“从未交付”的例子是一个很好的例子，因为这会直接导致客户流失，而且它所花费的金钱远远超过其频率所暗示的。

And I think the fact of the matter is is when you have things that cause churn, you're losing all of that consumer's subsequent orders, and that is not necessarily observed.

我认为事实是，当你遇到导致客户流失的问题时，你就会失去该消费者的所有后续订单，而这并不一定会被观察到。

You're just seeing one bad experience, you're not seeing all of the lost orders because they're lost.

您只会看到一种糟糕的体验，而不会看到所有丢失的订单，因为它们都丢失了。

And so I think that sometimes this is an area where the data doesn't show you the full picture.

所以我认为有时这是一个数据无法向您展示全貌的领域。

And being able to quantify the impact on engagement, on profitability, will make it stand out as something that really, that you would maybe miss if you weren't really looking for it.

能够量化对参与度和盈利能力的影响，将使它脱颖而出，如果你不是真正在寻找它，你可能会错过它。

Jessica Lachs: And then I think the other thing is with something like login errors, sometimes you don't see it in the data because people can't even get into the data.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我认为另一件事是登录错误之类的问题，有时你在数据中看不到它，因为人们甚至无法进入数据。

If you're not able to log in, you're not making any purchases, you're not ordering, and so you may not see it in the data that you're looking at.

如果您无法登录，则表示您没有进行任何购买，也没有订购，因此您可能不会在正在查看的数据中看到它。

And so that's also something that I think is important for data folks to think about, which is what data don't we have?

因此，我认为这也是数据人员必须思考的重要问题，即我们没有哪些数据？

What data might we be missing?

我们可能会丢失哪些数据？

Where might there be opportunities and things that we actually need to identify and fix that we may not see?

哪里可能存在我们实际上需要识别和解决但我们可能看不到的机会和事情？

Because in this case, with login failures, they're not able to log in.

因为在这种情况下，如果登录失败，他们将无法登录。

They're not in the denominator, and so we're missing out on them from the data set entirely.

它们不在分母中，因此我们完全从数据集中遗漏了它们。

Lenny Rachitsky: Just a couple of more questions.

Lenny Rachitsky：还有几个问题。

There's one that I skipped that I'm just going to come back to.

有一个我跳过了，我会再回来看。

It's completely out of nowhere, but I think it might be interesting is about a global data org.

这完全是凭空而来，但我认为关于全球数据组织可能会很有趣。

So you run a global data org, you have data scientists and analysts and biz ops people all over the world, not just the US.

因此，您运营着一个全球数据组织，拥有来自世界各地的数据科学家、分析师和业务运营人员，而不仅仅是美国。

I'm curious just how is it different managing data people in different countries versus just the US?

我很好奇管理不同国家的数据人员与仅在美国有何不同？

What's a big difference?

有什么大区别呢？

Jessica Lachs: Everyone always asks about the differences.

杰西卡·拉克斯：每个人总是询问差异。

What I am surprised by is how similar things are, how similar people are, the data scientists themselves, but also consumers and dashers and couriers, as we call them at Volt.

让我惊讶的是，事物、人、数据科学家本身、消费者、快递员和快递员（我们在 Volt 中对他们的称呼）是多么相似。

There's a lot more similarities than differences.

相似之处多于差异。

I do think that when you built a business in the US and then you introduce new countries, having different currencies and different languages adds complexity that you weren't necessarily familiar with.

我确实认为，当您在美国建立业务然后引入新的国家/地区时，使用不同的货币和不同的语言会增加您不一定熟悉的复杂性。

I think similarly in EU countries versus non-EU countries in Europe, there's different regulation.

我认为，与欧洲的欧盟国家和非欧盟国家类似，监管也不同。

So that adds a fun layer of complexity.

这增加了一层有趣的复杂性。

So I do think that it adds complexity to the problem set, but ultimately so many of the problems are the same.

所以我确实认为它增加了问题集的复杂性，但最终很多问题都是相同的。

It feels a little bit like going into a test having seen the answer key.

这感觉有点像参加考试时看到了答案。

And so for me, there are problems we've encountered at Volt through Volt analytics where I'm like, "Oh, we've had a similar problem.

所以对我来说，我们通过 Volt 分析在 Volt 遇到了一些问题，我想，“哦，我们也遇到过类似的问题。

Jessica Lachs: I have an instinct for what the answer might be.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我有一种直觉，知道答案可能是什么。

Let's still test because there could be differences cultural or otherwise, but I feel like I know where we're going to end." And then sometimes there are problems where it's new for one reason or another, and it's exciting because you're like, "All right, let's see if things are different here." Let's see what ideas might work in a Volt country that don't work in a DoorDash country and vice versa.

我们仍然要进行测试，因为可能存在文化或其他方面的差异，但我觉得我知道我们将在哪里结束。”有时会出现一些问题，由于某种原因它是新的，这很令人兴奋，因为你会想，“好吧，让我们看看这里的情况是否有所不同。”让我们看看哪些想​​法可能适用于 Volt 国家/地区，但不适用于 DoorDash 国家/地区，反之亦然。

So I think I tend to focus more on what's the same, and then I'm pleasantly surprised when I find things that are different because that keeps you on your toes and keeps things interesting.

所以我想我倾向于更多地关注相同的东西，然后当我发现不同的东西时我会感到惊喜，因为这让你保持警惕并使事情变得有趣。

Lenny Rachitsky: I'm going to take us to AI Corner.

Lenny Rachitsky：我要带我们去人工智能角。

This is a segment we have in the podcast where I try to understand how people are using AI in their day-to-day and in their business.

这是我们在播客中的一个部分，我试图了解人们如何在日常和业务中使用人工智能。

I'm curious if you've found some really interesting way of using AI ideally in...

我很好奇你是否找到了一些非常有趣的方式来理想地使用人工智能......

you can go in either one of these directions, and how you or your team work day-to-day using AI tools to make you more efficient, or integrating AI into your product, making DoorDash better.

您可以朝以下任一方向发展，以及您或您的团队如何使用 AI 工具进行日常工作以提高效率，或将 AI 集成到您的产品中，使 DoorDash 变得更好。

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, I think that there are opportunities in both.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，我认为两者都有机会。

I think one of the things I'm really excited about is actually the former.

我认为我真正兴奋的事情之一实际上是前者。

So in helping to make the team more productive, we do something called Office Hours at DoorDash, the analytics team.

因此，为了帮助提高团队的工作效率，我们在 DoorDash（分析团队）开展了一项名为“办公时间”的活动。

And it's something that we started eight years ago, and it was a way to provide support for teams that at the time we just didn't have the bandwidth to support.

这是我们八年前开始的事情，这是为当时我们没有足够的带宽来支持的团队提供支持的一种方式。

So we would go, in the early days, we'd go sit in a room and we'd say, "Come on in and we'll help you with anything you need help with.

所以我们会去，在早期，我们会坐在一个房间里，我们会说，“进来吧，我们会帮助你解决任何你需要帮助的事情。

We'll help teach you SQL.

我们将帮助您教授 SQL。

We'll help look at some of your work.

我们将帮助查看您的一些工作。

We'll be a thought partner.

我们将成为思想伙伴。

You could just come learn what we're working on." Whatever it was.

你可以过来了解一下我们正在做什么。”不管是什么。

We would do two hours every week of Office Hours at different times to be friendly to different time zones.

我们每周会在不同时间进行两个小时的办公时间，以适应不同时区的需求。

Jessica Lachs: And I think one of the things I'm excited about is being able to really empower some of the folks that are still coming to Office Hours for one thing or another to be able to use AI to help edit queries on their own for example, to be able to say, "Here's a query.

杰西卡·拉克斯（Jessica Lachs）：我认为我感到兴奋的一件事是能够真正授权一些仍在办公时间做某件事的人能够使用人工智能来帮助自己编辑查询，例如能够说，“这是一个查询。

I want to make this.

我想做这个。

Please adjust this to our grocery business so that I can see the GOV for grocery." And so working to build these tools that will help not just our team in terms of time saving, and also to be honest, folks are going to use it on our team, but really to be able to empower non-technical users to be able to do things on their own and not have to take up bandwidth for the analytics team.

请根据我们的杂货业务进行调整，以便我可以看到 GOV 的杂货业务。”因此，努力构建这些工具不仅有助于我们的团队节省时间，而且说实话，人们将在我们的团队中使用它，而且真正能够使非技术用户能够自己做事，而不必占用分析团队的带宽。

Lenny Rachitsky: So essentially it's a chatbot that anyone in the company can talk to you to get advice on how to write SQL queries, query data and things like that?

Lenny Rachitsky：所以本质上它是一个聊天机器人，公司中的任何人都可以与你交谈，以获得有关如何编写 SQL 查询、查询数据等的建议？

Lenny Rachitsky: Is there a clever name for this chatbot per chance?

Lenny Rachitsky：这个聊天机器人有一个聪明的名字吗？

Jessica Lachs: So it's not clever.

杰西卡·拉克斯：所以这并不聪明。

It's called Ask Data AI, and that's named for our internal Slack channel that used to be the open Q&A for people to ask data.

它被称为“Ask Data AI”，以我们内部的 Slack 频道命名，该频道曾经是人们询问数据的公开问答平台。

So it's not at all clever.

所以它一点也不聪明。

Jessica Lachs: But again, it goes with the theme of very, very specific naming conventions that we have at DoorDash; Never Delivered and Ask Data AI.

杰西卡·拉克斯：但同样，它符合我们在 DoorDash 拥有的非常非常具体的命名约定的主题；从未交付并询问数据人工智能。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love it.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我喜欢它。

Just clarity above all else.

清晰高于一切。

That's something I've learned from an editor that I work with.

这是我从一位与我共事的编辑那里学到的东西。

Jess, is there anything else that you want to share or leave listeners with?

Jess，您还有什么想与听众分享或留给听众的吗？

For folks that are trying to build their data teams, make their data teams more efficient, is there any final wisdom nugget you'd want to share?

对于那些试图建立数据团队、提高数据团队效率的人来说，您有什么最后的智慧要分享吗？

Jessica Lachs: I think the only thing that I want to reiterate is that you don't necessarily need a formal training in whatever it is you're building.

Jessica Lachs：我认为我想重申的唯一一件事是，无论您正在构建什么，您都不一定需要接受正式培训。

And I think that also goes towards the folks that you hire onto the team.

我认为这也适用于你雇佣到团队中的人。

And so I mentioned earlier that we've had a lot of folks go to product or go to ops from the team.

所以我之前提到过，我们有很多人从团队中转向产品或运营。

What I didn't mention is how many folks we've actually had join the analytics team from partner teams.

我没有提到的是我们实际上有多少人从合作伙伴团队加入了分析团队。

So whether that was from engineering or from our ops team or marketing or finance, we are a net importer of talent as opposed to a net exporter of talent.

因此，无论是来自工程、运营团队、营销还是财务，我们都是人才净进口国，而不是人才净出口国。

And I think that that's because my own experience coming over from operations, from being a GM and making that transition into analytics, I find that I'm drawn to other folks who want to make a similar transition.

我认为这是因为我自己从运营、从担任总经理到转变为分析的经验，我发现我被其他想要进行类似转变的人所吸引。

Jessica Lachs: Now again, you have to have the technical skills, and most of these folks have acquired these skills on the job, whatever job they are doing at DoorDash before they transition to the analytics team, or they had maybe some formal training in school.

Jessica Lachs：再说一遍，你必须具备技术技能，而且这些人中的大多数人已经在工作中获得了这些技能，无论他们在过渡到分析团队之前在 DoorDash 做什么工作，或者他们可能在学校接受过一些正式培训。

But I love seeing the folks that make that transition and actually want to join the analytics team, even if they're not a career or data scientist.

但我喜欢看到那些做出这种转变并真正想加入分析团队的人，即使他们不是职业科学家或数据科学家。

I think it creates a really unique environment where you have folks on the team from different backgrounds with different expertise who can teach each other things.

我认为它创造了一个非常独特的环境，团队中的成员来自不同的背景，拥有不同的专业知识，他们可以互相教授东西。

So I can teach you how to build a discounted cash flow model in Excel, and I can learn how to make kick-ass slides from someone who has a background in consulting.

因此，我可以教您如何在 Excel 中构建贴现现金流模型，并且我可以向具有咨询背景的人学习如何制作精彩的幻灯片。

And I can learn about common gotchas in statistics from someone who comes to us with a Master's or a PhD in statistics, and we've got our econometrics folks and we've got our economists.

我可以从那些拥有统计学硕士或博士学位的人那里了解统计学中的常见问题，我们有计量经济学人员，也有经济学家。

We just have a group of people with different backgrounds who can all teach each other how to be better.

我们只是一群拥有不同背景的人，他们都可以互相教导如何变得更好。

And we're not all carbon copies of each other.

我们并不都是彼此的复制品。

Lenny Rachitsky: What I'm hearing is you try to optimize almost for a lot of different complementary skills and very different backgrounds almost.

Lenny Rachitsky：我听到的是，您几乎尝试针对许多不同的互补技能和非常不同的背景进行优化。

Jessica Lachs: Exactly.

杰西卡·拉克斯：没错。

And also people who have experience at different size companies.

还有在不同规模的公司有经验的人。

I think I love folks from startups who have that hustle and grit, but I also love folks who've seen what scale looks like and can help us see around corners as far as what problems we will encounter as the business is growing.

我想我喜欢那些来自初创公司的人，他们有那种忙碌和毅力，但我也喜欢那些见过规模的人，他们可以帮助我们看到随着业务的发展，我们会遇到什么问题。

And I think it is not just about a diversity of skill and a diversity of background, it's also diversity of prior company and stage.

我认为这不仅仅是技能和背景的多样性，也是之前公司和阶段的多样性。

That can be really a unique way to think about structuring your team so that you get the best of both worlds.

这确实是一种思考构建团队的独特方式，以便您能够两全其美。

Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

Well, just when you thought we were done, we reached our very exciting lightning round.

好吧，就在你以为我们已经完成的时候，我们进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。

Are you ready?

你准备好了吗？

Lenny Rachitsky: Let's do it.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：让我们开始吧。

Okay.

好的。

First question, what are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people?

第一个问题，您向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？

Jessica Lachs: I tend to read fiction, particularly historical fiction, and I love spy novels.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我喜欢读小说，尤其是历史小说，而且我喜欢间谍小说。

So I think my brain is always in problem-solving mode even when reading.

所以我认为即使在阅读时我的大脑也始终处于解决问题的模式。

A recent book that I read that I enjoyed was The Rose Code by Kate Quinn, and it's about women code breakers in World War II, and I really enjoyed that.

我最近读的一本我很喜欢的书是凯特·奎恩（Kate Quinn）写的《玫瑰密码》，它是关于二战中的女性密码破译者的，我真的很喜欢。

But rather than recommending a book...

但与其推荐一本书...

I guess I did just recommend a book, but rather than recommending another book, I am going to recommend the Libby app and supporting your local public library because I love the library and I love Libby, so I'll give that as my other recommendation.

我想我确实只是推荐了一本书，但我不会推荐另一本书，而是会推荐 Libby 应用程序并支持您当地的公共图书馆，因为我喜欢这个图书馆，也喜欢 Libby，所以我会将其作为我的其他推荐。

Lenny Rachitsky: Beautiful.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：美丽。

Very on brand with sharing economy, company stuff.

非常注重品牌与共享经济、公司的东西。

Libby.

利比。

Cool.

凉爽的。

Okay, next question.

好的，下一个问题。

Favorite recent movie or TV show?

最近最喜欢的电影或电视节目？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, another one.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，另一个。

I don't actually watch a lot of TV, definitely don't watch a lot of movies.

我实际上不看很多电视，当然也不看很多电影。

In fact, haven't seen some of the movie greats.

事实上，我还没有看过一些伟大的电影。

I get yelled at a lot by my friend.

我经常被朋友骂。

"I can't believe you haven't seen that." I tend to re-watch things, so series from the past, over and over again.

“我不敢相信你没有看到这一点。”我倾向于重新观看一些东西，所以一遍又一遍地观看过去的连续剧。

I think it's just like how I shut my brain off.

我想这就像我关闭大脑一样。

So I've recently re-watched The West Wing, which is one of my favorite shows of all time, probably for the 50th time.

所以我最近重新看了一遍《白宫风云》，这是我一直以来最喜欢的电视剧之一，可能是第 50 遍了。

Jessica Lachs: And Alias, which was a Jennifer Garner series from the early 2000s.

杰西卡·拉克斯：还有《双面女间谍》，这是詹妮弗·加纳 2000 年代初的系列剧。

Also, Spy.

还有，间谍。

So I'm noticing a theme.

所以我注意到一个主题。

I think I really love the spy genre.

我想我真的很喜欢间谍类型。

But yeah, I've watched those.

但是，是的，我看过那些。

They're both great, but not at all current.

他们都很棒，但都不是最新的。

Lenny Rachitsky: Perfect.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：完美。

Perfectly acceptable.

完全可以接受。

Do you have a favorite product that you recently discovered that you really love?

您最近发现自己真正喜欢的最喜欢的产品有吗？

Jessica Lachs: This is a bit of a curveball.

杰西卡·拉克斯：这有点像曲线球。

So Korean sunscreens.

所以韩国防晒霜。

So I burn really easily, so I have to wear sunscreen and I love Korean sunscreens.

所以我很容易晒伤，所以我必须涂防晒霜，我喜欢韩国防晒霜。

I was introduced to them by a friend of mine, and they're just far superior to what we have in the US.

我的一个朋友向我介绍了他们，他们比我们在美国的要好得多。

So I highly recommend people give Korean sunscreens a try, particularly there's a Beauty of Joseon on branded sunscreen.

所以我强烈建议人们尝试一下韩国防晒霜，特别是品牌防晒霜上有“Beauty of Joseon”。

It's just amazing and is delightful to wear, which is important when you have to wear it every day.

它令人惊叹，佩戴起来令人愉悦，当您必须每天佩戴它时，这一点很重要。

Lenny Rachitsky: I've been trying to wear more sunscreen as I age, and so this is a really good tip.

Lenny Rachitsky：随着年龄的增长，我一直在尝试涂抹更多的防晒霜，所以这是一个非常好的建议。

Was that a brand you recommended?

这是你推荐的品牌吗？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的。

So Beauty of Joseon is the brand.

所以 Beauty of Joseon 就是这个品牌。

Jessica Lachs: There's another brand, Isntree, which also has a great sunscreen.

Jessica Lachs：还有一个品牌，Isntree，也有很棒的防晒霜。

But I'll be honest, almost every Korean sunscreen I've tried is great.

但老实说，我尝试过的几乎所有韩国防晒霜都很棒。

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。

I'm Googling this as soon as we get off.

我们一下车我就用谷歌搜索这个。

Do you have a favorite life motto that you often come back to and share and or share with family and friends even more ?

您是否有最喜欢的人生格言，并且经常回来分享或与家人和朋友分享？

Jessica Lachs: I do.

杰西卡·拉克斯：我愿意。

So there's a John Steinbeck quote, which I'm not big on quotes, but I like this one, which is that, "It's a common experience that a problem difficult at night is resolved in the morning after the committee of sleep has worked on it." I find that that's something I really live by.

约翰·斯坦贝克（John Steinbeck）有一句名言，我不太喜欢引用，但我喜欢这句话，那就是，“这是一种常见的经验，晚上遇到的困难问题在睡眠委员会解决后在早上就得到了解决。”我发现这才是我真正赖以生存的东西。

First off, I love sleep and I try to get as much of it as possible.

首先，我喜欢睡眠，并且会尽可能多地睡眠。

But the other thing is that if I'm stuck on a problem or if I am writing a response to something like a tense issue or an emotional issue, often I find that if I put down my thoughts, go to sleep, check it in the morning, I end up with a better outcome.

但另一件事是，如果我遇到一个问题，或者我正在写一个对紧张问题或情绪问题的回应，我通常会发现，如果我放下自己的想法，去睡觉，早上检查一下，我最终会得到更好的结果。

So all of a sudden you have a new perspective and clarity on a problem you were stuck on, or you realize that you weren't clear in the way you were communicating your thoughts because you were emotional about something and you're able to put together a much better response to an e-mail or to whatever problem you're handling.

因此，突然之间，您对陷入困境的问题有了新的视角和清晰的认识，或者您意识到自己表达想法的方式不清楚，因为您对某件事很情绪化，并且您能够对电子邮件或您正在处理的任何问题做出更好的回应。

So sleep can solve lots of problems.

所以睡眠可以解决很多问题。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love sleep as well.

Lenny Rachitsky：我也喜欢睡眠。

I'm always telling my wife, "Let's go to sleep." Like, "Okay, I'll be there soon." I love that advice.

我总是对妻子说：“我们去睡觉吧。”就像，“好的，我很快就到。”我喜欢这个建议。

Okay, two more questions.

好吧，还有两个问题。

Who's influenced you most in your career?

在你的职业生涯中，谁对你影响最大？

Is there someone that comes to mind?

有想到的人吗？

Jessica Lachs: So I think two answers, a multi-part answer.

杰西卡·拉克斯：所以我认为有两个答案，一个由多部分组成的答案。

So I think first my career has been in male-dominated industries and I've worked with just some incredible women who've really influenced me.

所以我认为我的职业生涯首先是在男性主导的行业，我和一些真正影响我的令人难以置信的女性一起工作过。

When I was a banker, there were two senior bankers, Vanessa Roberts and Gina Tarone at Lehman Brothers where I worked.

当我还是一名银行家时，我工作的雷曼兄弟有两位高级银行家，凡妮莎·罗伯茨（Vanessa Roberts）和吉娜·塔隆（Gina Tarone）。

And they were just so incredible.

他们真是太不可思议了。

They were just so good at their jobs and I found that really inspiring.

他们非常擅长自己的工作，我发现这真的很鼓舞人心。

Jessica Lachs: And then at DoorDash, Tia Sherringham, who is our GC, and Liz Jarvis-Shean, who leads comms, are just dominant in their fields.

Jessica Lachs：然后在 DoorDash，我们的 GC 蒂亚·谢林汉姆 (Tia Sherringham) 和领导通讯的利兹·贾维斯·谢恩 (Liz Jarvis-Shean) 在各自的领域占据主导地位。

And I think that that's really empowering and have been big influences on me to just see strong, powerful women kicking ass and that helps me believe that I can do the same.

我认为这确实给了我很大的力量，对我产生了很大的影响，让我看到坚强、有权力的女性在踢屁股，这让我相信我也能做到同样的事情。

So that's one answer.

这就是一个答案。

Jessica Lachs: And then the other answer, sort of cliche, but my parents.

杰西卡·拉克斯：然后是另一个答案，有点陈词滥调，但是我的父母。

My mom was a statistician at the UN before she got married, and she actually chose to stay home and raise three children, so I'm the youngest.

我妈妈结婚前是联合国的统计学家，她实际上选择留在家里抚养三个孩子，所以我是最小的。

And when I was in, I think it was elementary school, decided to go back to school, switch careers and become a nurse.

当我入学时，我认为那是小学，决定回到学校，转行并成为一名护士。

And so the fact that she embarked on this completely new career in her forties after 15 years as a stay-at-home mom and my father supported this.

因此，在做了 15 年的家庭主妇后，她在 40 多岁开始了这一全新的职业，这一事实和我的父亲对此表示支持。

I think that that was really, really influential and was probably the first time I saw that you can do whatever you put your mind to, no matter your age, no matter your circumstances.

我认为这真的非常有影响力，而且可能是我第一次看到你可以做任何你想做的事，无论你的年龄，无论你的情况如何。

So that was really influential and I don't think I've ever told her that.

所以这真的很有影响力，我想我从来没有告诉过她这一点。

So hi, Mom.

嗨，妈妈。

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, I think that was influential for my career.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，我认为这对我的职业生涯有影响。

Definitely.

确实。

Lenny Rachitsky: That's a beautiful answer.

Lenny Rachitsky：这是一个很好的答案。

Fun fact, I worked with Liz at Airbnb.

有趣的是，我和 Liz 在 Airbnb 一起工作。

Your person you just mentioned in the comms team.

您刚才在通讯团队中提到的人。

Lenny Rachitsky: She's amazing.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：她太棒了。

Final question.

最后一个问题。

So when you joined DoorDash, imagine it wasn't obvious that it was going to work.

因此，当您加入 DoorDash 时，想象一下它的运作效果并不明显。

I imagine it was still like, "This was a crazy idea.

我想它仍然是这样的，“这是一个疯狂的想法。

Maybe it'll work, maybe not." Is there a moment you recall where you're like, "I think this is going to be a big success?

也许它会起作用，也许不会。”您是否记得某个时刻您会说：“我认为这会取得巨大成功？

I think this is actually going to work out?"

我想这真的会成功吗？”

Jessica Lachs: To be honest, I went into DoorDash because I wanted to learn for the experience.

Jessica Lachs：说实话，我进入 DoorDash 是因为我想通过体验来学习。

I thought it was interesting, problems with interesting people.

我认为这很有趣，与有趣的人一起解决问题。

I never thought too much about whether it would work.

我从来没有过多地考虑过它是否有效。

I of course wanted it to work and was very competitive and wanted to win.

我当然希望它能发挥作用，并且非常有竞争力并希望获胜。

I think there's two moments that stand out.

我认为有两个时刻很引人注目。

One was when the third party market share data showed that we had become the number one player after, I think we started at number four or five.

第一个是当第三方市场份额数据显示我们已经成为第一名之后，我认为我们从第四或第五名开始。

And I think that that was really exciting to see the trajectory and to see us gain in category share.

我认为看到这一轨迹并看到我们在品类份额上的增长真是令人兴奋。

That was exciting.

那真是令人兴奋。

I probably didn't see it until months after it had happened because we don't spend a ton of time focusing on it, but I do remember somebody wanted to include the graph in some presentation, some sales material, and we're like, "Oh, we're number one.

我可能直到事情发生几个月后才看到它，因为我们没有花大量时间关注它，但我确实记得有人想将图表包含在一些演示文稿、一些销售材料中，我们就像，“哦，我们是第一。

That's incredible.

这太不可思议了。

We used to be number five." So I'd say that that was one.

我们曾经是第五名。”所以我想说那就是其中之一。

Jessica Lachs: The other one that stands out was, the first talk I gave in a lot of these startup talks in the early days in Boston, and I'd asked the audience, "How many of you have used DoorDash?" And there'd be like three people who would raise their hand.

杰西卡·拉克斯：另一个引人注目的是，我在波士顿早期的许多初创公司演讲中发表的第一个演讲，我问观众，“你们中有多少人使用过 DoorDash？”大约会有三个人举手。

And then it was a few years ago, maybe 2018, 2019, and I was giving a talk and I asked the audience, "How many of you have used DoorDash?" And almost everyone's hands went up.

然后是几年前，也许是 2018 年、2019 年，我在演讲时问观众，“你们中有多少人使用过 DoorDash？”几乎所有人都举起了手。

And that was actually pretty memorable for me because in my mind, we were still the small startup that no one had heard of where I had to over enunciate the D's in DoorDash.

这对我来说实际上是非常难忘的，因为在我看来，我们仍然是一家小型初创公司，没有人听说过我不得不在 DoorDash 中大声说出 D。

So people didn't think I worked for Jordash, the nineties' denim company.

所以人们不认为我为九十年代的牛仔布公司 Jordash 工作。

And so that was pretty meaningful to me when just so many people had used the product or were consumers of DoorDash.

因此，当这么多人使用过该产品或者是 DoorDash 的消费者时，这对我来说非常有意义。

It was pretty exciting.

这真是太令人兴奋了。

And I still get excited.

我仍然很兴奋。

I saw DoorDash mentioned in a book recently that I was reading.

我最近在读的一本书中看到DoorDash。

It was like, "We're in the book." So those little things when you become part of the cultural lingo that I think are really, really special.

就像是，“我们在书里。”因此，当你成为文化术语的一部分时，我认为这些小事情真的非常特别。

Lenny Rachitsky: Well, I'm a very happy customer of DoorDash.

Lenny Rachitsky：嗯，我是 DoorDash 的非常满意的客户。

I've never had a Never Deliver.

我从来没有遇到过“永不交付”的情况。

It's always there, sometimes a little late.

它总是在那里，有时会晚一点。

Usually it's perfect.

通常它是完美的。

Thank you for everything you do.

感谢您所做的一切。

Go team DoorDash.

加入 DoorDash 团队吧。

Lenny Rachitsky: Two final questions.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：最后两个问题。

Where can folks find you online if they want to follow stuff that you do?

如果人们想关注您所做的事情，可以在哪里找到您？

I know you've been doing more writing on LinkedIn and things like that, so just help people understand where to find you and how can listeners be useful to you?

我知道你在 LinkedIn 上写了很多文章以及类似的事情，所以只是帮助人们了解在哪里可以找到你以及听众如何对你有用？

Jessica Lachs: Yeah, so as you mentioned, to find me LinkedIn, I don't have a huge social presence, but I am on LinkedIn and I am currently writing a series of blog posts about my experience building a global analytics org at DoorDash.

Jessica Lachs：是的，正如您提到的，要在 LinkedIn 上找到我，我没有很大的社交影响力，但我在 LinkedIn 上，目前正在撰写一系列博客文章，介绍我在 DoorDash 建立全球分析组织的经验。

Some of the lessons I've learned over the last 10 years.

我在过去 10 年中学到的一些教训。

So definitely check those out.

所以一定要检查一下。

Jessica Lachs: And as far as your second question of how listeners can be useful to me, I guess read the post on LinkedIn and I'd love to hear what people think, whether you agree with my point of view or not.

杰西卡·拉克斯：至于你的第二个问题，即听众如何对我有用，我想读过 LinkedIn 上的帖子，我很想听听人们的想法，无论你是否同意我的观点。

That being said, be nice.

话虽这么说，要友善。

I want honest feedback, but I want kindness as well.

我想要诚实的反馈，但我也想要善意的反馈。

So yeah, just engage with the content and let me know what y'all think.

所以，是的，只需参与内容并让我知道你们的想法。

I think I do have a broader ask, which is just to encourage folks listening to TruthSeek, something I take seriously at DoorDash.

我想我确实有一个更广泛的要求，这只是为了鼓励人们聆听 TruthSeek，这是我在 DoorDash 认真对待的事情。

It's a company value.

这是一个公司的价值。

But there's a lot of misinformation out there and it's often up to us as individuals to figure out what's fact and what's fiction.

但那里存在很多错误信息，通常需要我们个人来弄清楚什么是事实，什么是虚构的。

So I have a plea for folks to do your best, to search for the truth and speak the truth, and I think we'll all be better off for it.

因此，我呼吁人们尽最大努力，寻找真相并说出真相，我认为我们都会因此而过得更好。

And of course, use DoorDash.

当然，使用 DoorDash。

Jessica Lachs: Yes, there are three things that listeners can do.

杰西卡·拉克斯：是的，听众可以做三件事。

Lenny Rachitsky: You're at DoorDash.com.

Lenny Rachitsky：您现在在 DoorDash.com。

That was awesome.

太棒了。

I love that last point as well in addition, to use DoorDash.

另外，我也喜欢最后一点，即使用 DoorDash。

Jessica, thank you so much for being here.

杰西卡，非常感谢你来到这里。

Jessica Lachs: Thank you for having me.

杰西卡·拉克斯：谢谢你邀请我。

It was a lot of fun.

这很有趣。

Same for me.

对我来说也一样。

Bye, everyone.: Thank you so much for listening.

再见，大家：非常感谢您的聆听。

If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcast、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。

Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.

另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。

You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.

您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。

See you in the next episode.

下一集见。