'The social radar: Y Combinator’s secret weapon | Jessica Livingston (co-founder of YC, author)'

Lenny Rachitsky: I want to start with a quote by someone you may know, Paul Graham, "Much of what's novel about YC is due to Jessica Livingston.

Lenny Rachitsky：我想以您可能认识的人 Paul Graham 的一句话开始：“YC 的许多新颖之处都归功于 Jessica Livingston。

If you don't know her, you don't understand YC."

如果你不了解她，你就不懂YC。”

Jessica Livingston: My three co-founders were deeply technical, but I would look at other things about founders.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我的三位联合创始人都精通技术，但我会关注创始人的其他方面。

All these little social cues.

所有这些小小的社交暗示。

Lenny Rachitsky: Your nickname was the Social Radar.

Lenny Rachitsky：你的绰号是社交雷达。

Every interview, everyone always turned to you and they're like, "Jessica, what does their social radar say?"

每次采访时，每个人都会转向你，他们会问：“杰西卡，他们的社交雷达怎么说？”

Jessica Livingston: I would look at, do the co-founders get along?

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我会看看联合创始人相处得好吗？

Are these people committed?

这些人有承诺吗？

And if a founder would get defensive, that was always a bad sign.

如果创始人采取防御态度，那总是一个坏兆头。

Lenny Rachitsky: Is there anything else along the Airbnb story that would be interesting to share?

Lenny Rachitsky：Airbnb 的故事还有什么值得分享的吗？

Jessica Livingston: He hated their idea, and Paul tried to get Brian and Joe and Nate to change it.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：他讨厌他们的想法，保罗试图让布莱恩、乔和内特改变它。

But I remember specifically Joe brought out the cereal boxes, the Obama O's and Cap'n McCain's, and I just thought, oh my God, they're going to work hard to do whatever they can to make this company succeed.

但我特别记得乔拿出了麦片盒、Obama O's 和 Cap'n McCain's，我只是想，天哪，他们会努力工作，尽其所能让这家公司取得成功。

Lenny Rachitsky: You just talk a bit about this idea of just making shit happen, showing signs of being hustlers.

Lenny Rachitsky：你只是谈论了一些让事情发生的想法，表现出骗子的迹象。

Jessica Livingston: Do you sort of need that desperation.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：你需要那种绝望吗？

You have to burn the boat.

你必须烧掉这艘船。

Lenny Rachitsky: Today, my guest is Jessica Livingston.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：今天，我的客人是杰西卡·利文斯顿。

Jessica is the co-founder of Y Combinator, the first and most famous startup accelerator, which since 2005 has funded over 5,000 companies, including over 200 unicorns now worth over a billion dollars, including companies like Airbnb, Stripe, DoorDash, Coinbase, Dropbox, Instacart, Reddit, the list goes on.

Jessica 是 Y Combinator 的联合创始人，Y Combinator 是第一个也是最著名的创业加速器，自 2005 年以来已资助了 5,000 多家公司，其中包括 200 多家独角兽公司，目前价值超过 10 亿美元，其中包括 Airbnb、Stripe、DoorDash、Coinbase、Dropbox、Instacart、Reddit 等公司，这样的例子不胜枚举。

Jessica is also the author of one of the bestselling books about startups, Founders at Work, and hosts the Social Radars Podcast.

杰西卡还是有关初创公司的畅销书之一《Founders at Work》的作者，并主持 Social Radars 播客。

She lives in England with her husband, who you may know, and her two sons.

她与您可能认识的丈夫以及两个儿子住在英国。

In our conversation, we dive deep into Jessica's superpower of being the Social Radar.

在我们的谈话中，我们深入探讨了杰西卡作为社交雷达的超能力。

She got this nickname in the early days of YC because she can read people incredibly well.

她在 YC 成立之初就得到了这个绰号，因为她能很好地读懂别人。

This becomes a huge unfair advantage when you're evaluating and investing in early stage startups and founders, but also becomes useful in every part of your life.

当你评估和投资早期初创公司和创始人时，这会成为一个巨大的不公平优势，但也会在你生活的各个方面变得有用。

There's actually a quiz that I'm going to link to in the show notes called Reading the Mind in the Eyes that I suggest you take to see how you do, and it'll give you a sense of how well you are at reading people.

实际上，我将在节目笔记中链接到一个名为“从眼睛里读懂思想”的测验，我建议您参加该测验来看看自己做得如何，它会让您了解自己在读人方面的能力。

Lenny Rachitsky: Jessica got a perfect score, just as an example of her unique talents, reading people's emotions along with her superpower and tips on how you can develop your own social radar.

莱尼·拉奇茨基（Lenny Rachitsky）：杰西卡获得了满分，这就是她独特才能的一个例子，她能够解读人们的情绪以及她的超能力，以及如何开发自己的社交雷达的技巧。

We also talk about her fabulous podcast called The Social Radars, some wild early YC stories, including how the interview with the Airbnb founders actually went down, and so much more.

我们还谈论了她精彩的​​播客《The Social Radars》、一些早期 YC 的疯狂故事，包括对 Airbnb 创始人的采访实际上是如何失败的，等等。

If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.

如果您喜欢这个播客，请不要忘记订阅并在您最喜欢的播客应用程序或 YouTube 中关注它。

It's the best way to avoid missing feature episodes and it helps the podcast tremendously.

这是避免错过专题节目的最佳方式，并且对播客有很大帮助。

With that, I bring you Jessica Livingston.

接下来，我为您带来杰西卡·利文斯顿。

Lenny Rachitsky: Jessica, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.

Lenny Rachitsky：杰西卡，非常感谢您来到这里，欢迎来到播客。

Jessica Livingston: Thanks, Lenny.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：谢谢，莱尼。

I'm glad to be here.

我很高兴来到这里。

Lenny Rachitsky: I want to start with a quote by someone you may know, Paul Graham.

Lenny Rachitsky：我想引用你可能认识的人 Paul Graham 的话作为开始。

So he wrote, "A few months ago an article about Y Combinator said that early on it had been a one-man show.

所以他写道，“几个月前，一篇关于 Y Combinator 的文章说，早期它是一场独角戏。

It's sadly common to read that sort of thing, but the problem with that description is not just that it's unfair, it's also misleading.

遗憾的是，阅读此类内容很常见，但这种描述的问题不仅在于它不公平，而且还具有误导性。

Much of what's novel about YC is due to Jessica Livingston.

YC 的许多新颖之处都归功于杰西卡·利文斯顿 (Jessica Livingston)。

If you don't know her, you don't understand YC." I'm hoping with this conversation we help a lot more people understand you.

如果你不了解她，你就不懂YC。”我希望通过这次对话可以帮助更多的人了解您。

Kind of an implication of this quote that I wanted to ask you about is that there's an implication that you've never gotten the credit that you deserve for starting YC, for helping YC become what it's become.

我想问您这句话的含义是，您从未因创办 YC、帮助 YC 成为现在的样子而获得应有的荣誉。

I'm just curious what that's been like for you.

我只是好奇你的情况如何。

Jessica Livingston: It's sort of a hard question.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：这是一个很难回答的问题。

It is true, I was one of the co-founders of Y Combinator, and yet I'm often sort of left out of news articles, Wikipedia people want to take my entry off of Wikipedia all the time.

确实，我是 Y Combinator 的联合创始人之一，但我经常被排除在新闻文章之外，维基百科的人一直想把我的条目从维基百科上删除。

I'm not as notable and I'm sort of like, "Gosh, I'm a founder of Y Combinator, author of a best-selling book on startups.

我没那么出名，我有点像，“天哪，我是 Y Combinator 的创始人，也是一本关于初创公司的畅销书的作者。

What does a girl have to do?" But it is what it is.

一个女孩子该做什么？”但事实就是如此。

It's the external views, and it doesn't matter to me.

这是外界的看法，与我无关。

Do you know what I mean?

你知道我的意思吗？

People within YC know what I've done, the Y Combinator alumni know what I've done, my friends and family and people I respect in the Silicon Valley community know what I've done, most of them do.

YC 内部的人知道我做了什么，Y Combinator 校友知道我做了什么，我的朋友和家人以及我在硅谷社区中尊敬的人知道我做了什么，他们中的大多数人都知道。

So that's fine.

所以没关系。

Jessica Livingston: But it is true, I've often been sort of erased, and in some cases it's annoying because it's a lot of people who have a certain narrative about Y Combinator that don't want me to exist, I'm maybe making that up a little bit, or the people that don't want me to be part of the narrative are the ones that think that Y Combinator, it's run by white men, only invests in white men.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：但这是事实，我经常被抹去，在某些情况下，这很烦人，因为很多人对 Y Combinator 有某种叙述，不希望我存在，我可能会编造一点，或者那些不希望我参与叙述的人认为 Y Combinator 由白人经营，只投资于白人。

And gosh, if there was a woman on the founding team making choices of who to fund, that would undermine their narrative.

天哪，如果创始团队中有一位女性选择资助谁，那将会破坏他们的叙述。

So I think sometimes that's what happens too.

所以我认为有时也会发生这种情况。

Lenny Rachitsky: Fascinating.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：令人着迷。

Just a convenient story to tell sometimes.

有时只是一个方便讲的故事。

Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Enterpret.

Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Enterpret 为您带来。

Enterpret unifies all of your customer interactions, from Gong calls to Zendesk tickets, to Twitter threads, to app store reviews, and makes it available for your product team.

Enterpret 统一了您所有的客户交互，从 Kong 呼叫到 Zendesk 票证，到 Twitter 线程，再到应用程序商店评论，并可供您的产品团队使用。

It's used by leading product orgs like Canva, Notion, Loom, Linear, and Descript to accurately integrate the voice of the customer into your product development process, helping you build best-in-class products.

Canva、Notion、Loom、Linear 和 Descript 等领先产品组织都使用它来将客户的声音准确地集成到您的产品开发流程中，帮助您构建一流的产品。

Lenny Rachitsky: What makes Enterpret special is its ability to build customer-specific adaptive AI models that provide the most granular and accurate categorization of all your customer feedback, and also connect customer feedback to revenue impact, to help product leaders confidently prioritize things that will actually move the needle for your business.

Lenny Rachitsky：Enterpret 的独特之处在于它能够构建特定于客户的自适应 AI 模型，为所有客户反馈提供最精细、最准确的分类，并将客户反馈与收入影响联系起来，帮助产品领导者自信地优先考虑那些真正能为您的业务带来推动的事情。

If you want a custom model built for your organization so that you can automate your feedback loops and prioritize your roadmap with confidence, get in touch with the team at enterpret.com/Lenny.

如果您想要为您的组织构建自定义模型，以便能够自动化反馈循环并自信地确定路线图的优先级，请通过 enterpret.com/Lenny 与团队联系。

That's E-N-T-E-R-P-R-E-T dot com slash Lenny.

那是 E-N-T-E-R-P-R-E-T . com 斜线莱尼。

Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Anvil.

Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Anvil 为您带来。

Their document SDK helps product teams build and launch software for documents fast.

他们的文档 SDK 可帮助产品团队快速构建和启动文档软件。

Companies like Carta and Vouch Insurance use Anvil to accelerate the development of their document workflows.

Carta 和 Vouch Insurance 等公司使用 Anvil 来加速文档工作流程的开发。

Getting to market fast is a top priority for product teams.

快速进入市场是产品团队的首要任务。

And the last thing that you or your developers want is to build document workflows from scratch; it's time-consuming, expensive and distracts from core work.

您或您的开发人员最不想看到的就是从头开始构建文档工作流程；它既耗时又昂贵，而且会分散核心工作的注意力。

You could stitch together multiple tools and manage those integrations, or you can use an all-in-one document SDK.

您可以将多个工具组合在一起并管理这些集成，也可以使用一体化文档 SDK。

Most product managers will tell you, "Paperwork sucks." Anvil's document SDK helps teams get to market fast, incorporate your brand style and give you back time to focus on your company's core differentiated features.

大多数产品经理会告诉你，“文书工作很糟糕。” Anvil 的文档 SDK 可帮助团队快速进入市场、融入您的品牌风格，并让您有时间专注于公司的核心差异化功能。

Lenny Rachitsky: For your users, paperwork often starts with an AI-powered web form styled and embedded in your application.

Lenny Rachitsky：对于您的用户来说，文书工作通常从设计并嵌入到您的应用程序中的人工智能驱动的 Web 表单开始。

From there, you can route data to your backend systems and to the correct fields in your PDFs via API.

从那里，您可以将数据路由到后端系统并通过 API 路由到 PDF 中的正确字段。

Complete the process with a white labeled e-signature.

使用白色标签的电子签名完成该过程。

The best part about Anvil is the level of customization their SDK provides.

Anvil 最好的部分是其 SDK 提供的定制级别。

Non-technical folks love Anvil's drag and drop builder, and developers love their flexible APIs and easy to understand documentation.

非技术人员喜欢 Anvil 的拖放构建器，开发人员喜欢其灵活的 API 和易于理解的文档。

Build documents software fast with Anvil.

使用 Anvil 快速构建文档软件。

That's useanvil.com/Lenny to learn more or start a free trial.

请访问 useanvil.com/Lenny 了解更多信息或开始免费试用。

That's use A-N-V-I-L dot com slash Lenny.

这就是使用 A-N-V-I-L . com 斜线 Lenny。

Lenny Rachitsky: So at YC, your nickname was the Social Radar.

Lenny Rachitsky：在 YC，你的昵称是“社交雷达”。

Your podcast is called The Social Radars.

您的播客称为“社交雷达”。

I haven't seen you talk too much about this skill anywhere else, and that's what I want to spend our time on together to better understand the skill that you've built of being this social radar.

我还没有看到你在其他地方过多谈论这项技能，这就是我想花我们的时间在一起的目的，以更好地理解你作为社交雷达所建立的技能。

How does that sound?

听起来怎么样？

Jessica Livingston: I will try Lenny, I will try.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我会尝试莱尼，我会尝试。

I don't talk much about it because it's hard to talk about.

我不太谈论它，因为它很难谈论。

I don't understand.

我不明白。

It's hard to put into words exactly what it is about me, but it's true that my nickname at Y Combinator was the Social Radar.

很难用语言准确地描述我的情况，但我在 Y Combinator 的昵称确实是“社交雷达”。

And I think it was because my three co-founders were deeply technical people, and I was not.

我认为这是因为我的三位联合创始人都是深厚的技术人员，而我不是。

But I would look at other things about founders.

但我会关注关于创始人的其他事情。

When we'd have these 10-minute interviews, I would look at, do the co-founders get along?

当我们进行 10 分钟的采访时，我会看看联合创始人相处得好吗？

Are these people committed?

这些人有承诺吗？

Do they really know about their product?

他们真的了解他们的产品吗？

Do they care?

他们关心吗？

Are they going to quit their job?

他们要辞去工作吗？

Or are they telling us that they are going to quit their job, but really aren't?

或者他们告诉我们他们要辞职，但实际上没有？

All these little social cues that I'd try to pick up on.

我会尝试捕捉所有这些微小的社交线索。

Jessica Livingston: And in a lot of cases, red flags about them that I'd add to the decision-making process.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：在很多情况下，我会将有关他们的危险信号添加到决策过程中。

And so that's why they called me the Social Radar, and it just sort of stuck.

这就是为什么他们称我为社交雷达，而且它有点卡住了。

And it's because I love people and the dynamics and understanding what's motivating people.

这是因为我喜欢人们和动态，并且了解是什么在激励人们。

I just love it and I love founder psychology, founders personalities.

我就是喜欢它，我喜欢创始人的心理学和创始人的个性。

I am absolutely fascinated with it.

我对它非常着迷。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love it.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我喜欢它。

Okay, so we're going to try to unpack as much as we can with the context that you're not exactly sure if you're able to articulate exactly how this power of yours works.

好的，所以我们将尝试在您不确定是否能够准确阐明您的这种力量如何发挥作用的背景下尽可能多地进行解包。

Lenny Rachitsky: There's this line you wrote somewhere, and Paul's written this, and other people, that every interview that you all did early on at YC, everyone always turned to you and they're like, "Jessica, what do you think?

Lenny Rachitsky：你在某处写过这句话，Paul 和其他人都写过，你们早期在 YC 进行的每次采访，每个人总是转向你，他们会说，“杰西卡，你觉得怎么样？

What does their social radar say?" Can you just talk a bit about that role that you played in the early days of YC of kind of seeing that side of candidates?

他们的社交雷达说什么？”您能否谈谈您在 YC 早期所扮演的角色，即看到候选人的这一面？

Jessica Livingston: Well, in the early days, especially before I knew a lot, as much as I know now, about startups and founders, early on, I was learning a lot in the first few years.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：嗯，在早期，尤其是在我对初创公司和创始人了解很多之前，就我现在所知，早期，我在最初几年学到了很多东西。

And in the first few years, it was just the four of us.

最初几年，只有我们四个人。

So I would be in charge of going out telling people, "Wait here while we do the interview, come on in." I'd be in charge of the stopwatch that would time us.

所以我会负责出去告诉人们，“我们采访的时候在这里等一下，进来吧。”我负责为我们计时的秒表。

And I'd say, "Okay, our time's up." And it was very administrative, and I would observe.

我会说：“好吧，我们的时间到了。”这是非常行政化的，我会观察。

Paul, Robert and Trevor, my co-founders would be asking them all sorts of questions about their product and their technology and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

我的联合创始人保罗、罗伯特和特雷弗会问他们各种有关他们的产品和技术的问题，等等等等。

I would occasionally ask questions, but I'd usually remain pretty silent.

我偶尔会问问题，但通常保持沉默。

And so I don't think people even really noticed me.

所以我认为人们并没有真正注意到我。

But I would be just watching them and sort of trying to observe as much as I could, not understanding sometimes even the technology that they were talking about.

但我只是看着他们，并尝试尽可能多地观察，有时甚至不理解他们正在谈论的技术。

I let my co-founders do that.

我让我的联合创始人这样做。

Jessica Livingston: And then after, we'd be talking, they'd look at me and they'd be like, "Should we fund them?

杰西卡·利文斯顿：然后，我们会说话，他们会看着我，然后说，“我们应该资助他们吗？

Jessica, should we fund them?" And sometimes I could tell based on the conversation whether they thought that the technology was good or how they felt, and sometimes I'd say, "Absolutely we should." Or sometimes I'd say, "Guys, I'm a little nervous.

杰西卡，我们应该资助他们吗？”有时我可以根据谈话判断他们是否认为这项技术很好或者他们的感受如何，有时我会说，“我们绝对应该”。或者有时我会说：“伙计们，我有点紧张。

Did you see how that founder interrupted the other founder and wouldn't let the other founder talk?" Because my three co-founders sometimes wouldn't notice this.

你看到那个创始人如何打断另一个创始人，不让另一个创始人说话吗？”因为我的三位联合创始人有时不会注意到这一点。

Jessica Livingston: They'd be so caught up in the conversation they were having about the technology, especially Paul.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：他们会非常专注于有关技术的对话，尤其是保罗。

Paul would get really into things.

保罗会真正投入到事情中。

And sometimes I always tease Paul, because one of his defining qualities is that sometimes someone would have an idea that he'd get so excited about that by the end of the interview he'd be giving them ideas about how to grow their product and what they could become.

有时我总是取笑保罗，因为他的一个决定性品质是，有时有人会想到他会非常兴奋，在采访结束时他会给他们关于如何发展他们的产品以及他们可以成为什么的想法。

And they'd sit there saying, "Yeah, yeah, that's a great idea." And then he'd say, "Fund them." And I'd say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, Paul, you can't just fund this because you love the idea.

他们会坐在那里说：“是啊，是啊，这是个好主意。”然后他会说：“资助他们。”我会说，“哇，哇，哇，保罗，你不能因为喜欢这个主意就资助这个。

Let's take a step back and let's look.

让我们退后一步来看一下。

Like these two founders are working at Google and they don't say they're going to quit.

就像这两位创始人在谷歌工作一样，他们并没有说要辞职。

That's not good." And I'd point out these things that I had observed.

这可不好。”我会指出我观察到的这些事情。

But I mean, we always agreed.

但我的意思是，我们总是意见一致。

It was very rare that we wouldn't agree on funding something.

我们很少会在资助某件事上达成一致。

We were usually on the same page.

我们通常意见一致。

Lenny Rachitsky: I see.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我明白了。

It's interesting that you talk about these behaviors, co-founders interrupting each other, or being kind of aggressive here and there.

有趣的是，你谈论这些行为，联合创始人互相打断对方，或者时不时地表现出攻击性。

Some people believe that's okay for founders to be like this.

有些人认为创始人这样是可以的。

A lot of successful founders, Elon, for example, Steve Jobs, who are kind of assholes a lot of times, I imagine, and I've read part of the reason you thought about just the type of person is you're trying to build a specific culture in the early days of YC and you're going to be around these people.

很多成功的创始人，比如埃隆，史蒂夫·乔布斯，我想他们很多时候都是混蛋，我读到过你考虑这类人的部分原因是你在 YC 的早期试图建立一种特定的文化，而你将围绕在这些人周围。

So maybe can you talk a bit about just why those elements were important to you and why'd you look for those?

那么也许您可以谈谈为什么这些元素对您很重要以及您为什么要寻找这些元素？

Jessica Livingston: I've definitely heard that Steve Jobs could be an.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我确实听说过史蒂夫·乔布斯可能是一个。

I've heard stories.

我听过故事。

But I think I would've funded him because he's so incredible and he was so smart and so interested in the product and knew...

但我想我会资助他，因为他太不可思议了，他太聪明了，对产品很感兴趣，而且知道……

I'm very persuaded by people who know what they're talking about and love their product and are domain experts.

我非常相信那些知道自己在说什么、热爱他们的产品并且是领域专家的人。

But I did consciously, especially early on, less so later on, early on, I did sometimes tend to say, "I really think this person's an asshole, I do not want to fund them." And we often wouldn't.

但我是有意识地这么做的，尤其是在早期，后来就更少了，在早期，我有时确实会说，“我真的认为这个人是个混蛋，我不想资助他们。”而我们常常不会。

And very early on when we were just funding 10, 20, 30 startups a batch, sometimes I have been known to say, "I don't know if I can have dinner with them every week." It was that point.

很早的时候，当我们一批只资助 10、20、30 家初创公司时，有时我会说，“我不知道我是否可以每周与他们共进晚餐。”正是这一点。

And I don't think we've ever regretted any of those.

我认为我们从未对这些感到后悔。

It didn't happen all the time, that was rare.

这种情况并不总是发生，这种情况很少见。

But life's too short, and I wanted to be able to work with these founders.

但生命太短暂，我希望能够与这些创始人一起工作。

Jessica Livingston: And as it turns out, it was sort of important early on in weeding out explicit assholes because that was the basis of our Y Combinator community, which is now thousands of founders.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：事实证明，早期清除明显的混蛋是很重要的，因为这是我们 Y Combinator 社区的基础，该社区现在有数千名创始人。

Now, of course, all the founders aren't all running their company anymore, but I would say most all of the founders bring something useful and valuable to the table.

当然，现在所有的创始人都不再经营他们的公司了，但我想说大多数创始人都带来了一些有用和有价值的东西。

So if you ask a question on Bookface, on our forum for founders, someone is going to be there to help you.

因此，如果您在 Bookface、我们的创始人论坛上提出问题，就会有人为您提供帮助。

And it's amazing.

这太棒了。

And that all started very early on, there was this culture of older batch mates helping newer ones, and this pay-it-forward mentality where everyone helped one another and rooted for one another and made introductions for each other.

这一切都很早就开始了，有一种老一批同事帮助新一批同事的文化，以及一种大家互相帮助、互相支持、互相介绍的这种付出代价的心态。

And I think it's a big part of our Y Combinator community now.

我认为它现在是我们 Y Combinator 社区的重要组成部分。

Lenny Rachitsky: So I wrote down a few of the things that you mentioned you look for, and you looked for in the early days.

Lenny Rachitsky：所以我写下了一些你提到的你寻找的东西，以及你在早期寻找的东西。

So let me just share a few of them and let's spend a little more time here.

因此，让我分享其中的一些内容，让我们在这里多花一点时间。

So you looked for, did the founders get along?

所以你想知道创始人相处得好吗？

Are they committed to the idea?

他们是否致力于这个想法？

Are they ready to quit their job?

他们准备好辞职了吗？

Are there any red flags?

有任何危险信号吗？

So is there anything else that you remember you spent a lot of time thinking about or looking for then or even now?

那么，您还记得当时甚至现在还花了很多时间思考或寻找其他什么东西吗？

Jessica Livingston: There's looking for in the application and then there's looking for in the interview, and now we have software that looks for all of the red flags in the application that I used to do by hand.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：在应用程序中寻找，然后在面试中寻找，现在我们有软件可以查找应用程序中的所有危险信号，而我以前都是手动完成的。

In the application, I'd look for just weird things, like was there a huge gap in the equity allocation?

在申请中，我会寻找一些奇怪的事情，比如股权分配是否存在巨大差距？

Did one founder have 99% and one founder have 1%?

是否一位创始人拥有 99%，一位创始人拥有 1%？

That's weird.

这很奇怪。

I'd want to dig in on that.

我想深入研究这一点。

That doesn't feel right.

这感觉不对。

Are they going to quit their job?

他们要辞去工作吗？

Are they going to move to Silicon Valley?

他们要搬到硅谷吗？

What are their current shareholders?

他们现在的股东有哪些？

Is like 90% of their company already owned by someone else?

他们公司 90% 的股份已经被别人拥有了吗？

There all these weird things that we like to just flag.

我们喜欢标记所有这些奇怪的事情。

And we wouldn't necessarily not fund someone because of them, but it's just more data.

我们不一定会因为他们而不再资助某人，但这只是更多的数据。

So that was in the application that I'd look through all of those.

因此，我会在应用程序中查看所有这些内容。

Jessica Livingston: But in the interview I definitely was sort of, one thing I remember I would always look for was, when you'd have a conversation with us, a lot of times, Paul especially, but Robert and Trevor, would really be getting right into the idea and questioning you, and how do you know this?

杰西卡·利文斯顿：但在采访中，我记得我一直在寻找的一件事是，当你与我们交谈时，很多时候，尤其是保罗，但罗伯特和特雷弗，真的会直接进入这个想法并质疑你，你怎么知道这一点？

And what about this?

那这个呢？

And if a founder would get defensive, that was always a bad sign, always a bad sign.

如果创始人采取防御态度，那总是一个坏兆头，总是一个坏兆头。

The best founders would say, "Gosh, I have thought about it and here's what I figured out." Or, they just have this almost a tennis match and a conversation rather than closing up and feeling like, oh, this person's interrogating me.

最好的创始人会说：“天哪，我已经考虑过了，这就是我的想法。”或者，他们只是进行一场几乎是一场网球比赛和一次谈话，而不是结束后感觉，哦，这个人在审问我。

You could just sort of, the open-mindedness, the flexible-mindedness of people was really important.

你可以这么说，人们的思想开放、思想灵活非常重要。

I'd get really excited about domain expertise.

我会对领域专业知识感到非常兴奋。

Like my co-founders, we all loved that.

和我的联合创始人一样，我们都喜欢这一点。

If someone was fixing their own problem in a broken industry, we loved that.

如果有人在一个破碎的行业中解决自己的问题，我们会喜欢这样。

Jessica Livingston: Definitely, I'd look for co-founder relationships.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：当然，我会寻找联合创始人的关系。

And again, I'm not saying I was always right, but you could tell if...

再说一次，我并不是说我总是对的，但你可以知道是否......

One founder, I'll give a story, one founder, once we asked a question and one person started to respond and the other founder put his arm in front of him and said, "I'll answer that question." And it was just so weird that he wouldn't let his co-founder speak.

一位创始人，我会讲一个故事，一位创始人，一旦我们提出一个问题，一个人开始回答，另一位创始人将手臂放在他面前说：“我会回答这个问题。”奇怪的是他不让他的联合创始人说话。

We'd have situations where we'd call people like hackers in a cage, where it's kind of obvious there'd be a business founder, business person, who had clearly convinced a programmer to join the team.

我们会遇到这样的情况，我们会称人们为关在笼子里的黑客，很明显会有一位企业创始人、商人，他显然说服了一名程序员加入团队。

They were given, the programmer was given, very little equity and just we called them programmers in a cage, like hackers in a cage.

他们被给予了，程序员也被给予了很少的股权，我们只是称他们为笼子里的程序员，就像笼子里的黑客一样。

And sometimes that works out, I'm not saying it doesn't.

有时这是可行的，我并不是说不行。

But I'd always try to observe, okay, does this hacker in a cage have any say in the company, the direction of the product?

但我总是试图观察，好吧，这个关在笼子里的黑客对公司、产品的方向有发言权吗？

That sort of thing.

诸如此类的事情。

Because the programmer needs to have opinions.

因为程序员需要有意见。

Lenny Rachitsky: It's so funny.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：这太有趣了。

I love this metaphor.

我喜欢这个比喻。

And I totally get what you mean.

我完全明白你的意思。

I want to unpack a couple of these, because this is exactly where I was hoping we'd go.

我想打开其中几个，因为这正是我希望我们去的地方。

So this idea of looking for defensiveness and being open to change and being flexible, why do you think that was so important to successful founders?

那么，寻求防御性、对变化持开放态度以及保持灵活性的想法，为什么你认为这对成功的创始人如此重要？

Why did you look for that?

你为什么要找那个？

Why was that a predictor of success?

为什么这是成功的预测？

Jessica Livingston: Several things.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：有几件事。

First of all, being defensive is really bad, if you're a startup founder, because you're always going to get people who question you.

首先，如果你是一家初创公司的创始人，那么防御性真的很糟糕，因为你总是会遇到质疑你的人。

And it's your job to educate them, if it's a new area, you're doing something presumably pretty new, you're always going to have people who question it or say, "That product's already out there, why is yours better?" You have to educate them.

你的工作就是教育他们，如果这是一个新领域，你正在做一些可能相当新的事情，你总是会有人提出质疑或说，“那个产品已经上市了，为什么你的更好？”你必须教育他们。

You don't want to be defensive about it.

你不想对此进行辩护。

Also, a lot of times, the first idea isn't bang right on, the right idea, and you have to be open-minded and maybe adjust it in a certain direction.

而且，很多时候，第一个想法并不是正确的，你必须保持开放的态度，也许可以朝某个方向进行调整。

The famous PayPal story, how it started off being the PalmPilot, or money transfer.

著名的 PayPal 故事，它是如何开始成为 PalmPilot 或汇款的。

And money transfer between the PalmPilots or whatever.

以及掌上电脑或其他设备之间的资金转移。

And then all the customers were using a janky version on the web, and they were begging for this to be on the web.

然后所有的客户都在网络上使用一个简陋的版本，他们恳求这个版本出现在网络上。

And finally, the founder said, "Oh, I see what most people want this for." You have to be open-minded to see what direction really is what your users want.

最后，创始人说：“哦，我明白大多数人想要这个的目的了。”你必须保持开放的心态，看看你的用户真正想要什么方向。

And so if you find someone is defensive, usually they're not open-minded.

因此，如果你发现某人持防御态度，通常他们的思想并不开放。

Jessica Livingston: The other thing is that the best founders will want to learn from other people and listen to other people.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：另一件事是，最好的创始人会想向其他人学习并倾听其他人的意见。

You talk to the Collison brothers and say something, they ask you a question, they're listening to your answer.

你和科里森兄弟交谈并说些什么，他们问你一个问题，他们正在听你的回答。

So many founders think, oh, I can't learn from anyone.

很多创始人认为，哦，我无法向任何人学习。

But the best founders are always listening and having spirited debates about things.

但最好的创始人总是善于倾听并就事物进行激烈的辩论。

I mean, that's part of the process.

我的意思是，这是过程的一部分。

And so I think when someone's defensive, it's just a bad sign.

所以我认为当有人采取防御态度时，这只是一个坏兆头。

So I would look for that.

所以我会寻找那个。

Jessica Livingston: I loved when I'd find someone sort of showcase that they'd make something happen no matter what; they're scrappy, they're hustlers.

杰西卡·利文斯顿（Jessica Livingston）：我喜欢找到一个人来展示他们无论如何都会让事情发生；他们斗志旺盛，他们是骗子。

I remember...

我记得...

Can I tell the story about the Airbnb interview?

我可以讲一下 Airbnb 面试的故事吗？

Jessica Livingston: Okay, because that was definitely one I'll never forget.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：好的，因为那绝对是我永远不会忘记的。

That was one that was clear the founders were really good.

很明显，创始人真的很优秀。

The market had just crashed basically with all the banks going out of business and everything.

市场刚刚崩溃，所有银行都倒闭了。

And so we were only funding startups that we felt had really scrappy founders and could be cockroaches, meaning could live off of very little amounts of money, or could charge customers and make money.

因此，我们只资助那些我们认为创始人非常斗志旺盛、可能是蟑螂的初创公司，这意味着它们可以靠很少的钱生存，或者可以向客户收费并赚钱。

And we didn't fund that many people in that winter '09 batch.

09 年冬季那批我们没有资助那么多人。

So we're being very strict with ourselves, very disciplined about things.

所以我们对自己非常严格，对事情非常自律。

And the Airbnb guys came in, and I just remember they had a contagious amount of energy.

Airbnb 的员工进来了，我只记得他们充满了感染力。

They just had an energy about them the way that they talked about their product, which was crazy at the time, staying in someone's bed or airbed.

他们只是在谈论他们的产品时充满活力，这在当时很疯狂，住在别人的床上或气垫床上。

In fact, it's a famous part of the story, we hated their idea and Paul tried to get Brian and Joe and Nate to change it.

事实上，这是故事中著名的部分，我们讨厌他们的想法，保罗试图让布莱恩、乔和内特改变它。

So we didn't even like the idea.

所以我们甚至不喜欢这个主意。

But I remember specifically they brought, at the end, Joe brought out these, the cereal boxes, the Obama O's and Cap'n Crunch's or Cap'n McCain's or whatever.

但我特别记得他们最后带来了，乔拿出了这些，麦片盒，奥巴马O's和Cap'n Crunch's或Cap'n McCain's等等。

Jessica Livingston: Yeah, Cap'n McCain's.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：是的，麦凯恩船长的。

They were saying that they went to some Costco or something and bought off-brand Cheerios and off-brand Cap'n Crunch's, took them out of the box, put them in this new box, glue-gunned it shut.

他们说他们去了 Costco 之类的地方，买了非品牌的 Cheerios 麦片和非品牌的 Cap'n Crunch's，把它们从盒子里拿出来，放进这个新盒子里，用胶枪把它封上。

And I just thought, oh my God, these guys are really going to great lengths for this.

我只是想，天哪，这些家伙真的为此竭尽全力。

And for some reason, it was silly, but it really appealed to me.

出于某种原因，这很愚蠢，但它确实吸引了我。

They're going to work hard to do whatever they can to make this company succeed.

他们将竭尽全力使公司取得成功。

And even though we were skeptical about the idea, I think we definitely made the right bet on the founders, and it was just very clear in that interview.

尽管我们对这个想法持怀疑态度，但我认为我们对创始人的押注绝对是正确的，这一点在那次采访中非常清楚。

Lenny Rachitsky: I'm so happy you shared that story, I was definitely going to ask about it.

Lenny Rachitsky：我很高兴你分享了这个故事，我肯定会问这个问题。

It's so funny because I've heard that story at least a hundred times working at Airbnb, they tell the beginning of Airbnb every chance they get at every all-hands.

这很有趣，因为我在 Airbnb 工作时至少听过这个故事一百次，他们一有机会就向全体员工讲述 Airbnb 的起源。

It's like a recurring theme.

这就像一个反复出现的主题。

And it's great to hear that basically it went exactly the way they describe.

很高兴听到事情基本上按照他们描述的方式进行。

Oftentimes, there's a myth around what happened, but that's exactly how they describe it.

通常，关于所发生的事情有一个神话，但这正是他们所描述的。

Jessica Livingston: No, it was definitely a whole crazy story and how Paul called them to accept them, and they were on the 280 or something or the 101 and the reception went down.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：不，这绝对是一个疯狂的故事，保罗如何打电话给他们接受他们，他们乘坐 280 或其他或 101 路，接待情况下降了。

And so he didn't hear if they were accepted or not.

所以他没有听说他们是否被接受。

Did he tell that part?

他告诉过那部分吗？

Lenny Rachitsky: No, I haven't heard that part.

Lenny Rachitsky：不，我没听过那部分。

Jessica Livingston: Oh yeah, that's part of the story.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：哦，是的，这是故事的一部分。

And they had to keep driving to get to talk to Paul again and find out that they were accepted.

他们必须继续开车才能再次与保罗交谈并发现他们被接受了。

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

It was just a crazy interview.

这只是一次疯狂的采访。

Lenny Rachitsky: The element of the story I'm also curious about is, the way Joe tells it, is he had the box in his backpack.

Lenny Rachitsky：我也很好奇的故事元素是，按照乔讲述的方式，他的背包里有盒子。

And as they were walking out, Paul or you is like, "Hey, what's that?

当他们走出去时，保罗或你会说：“嘿，那是什么？

What's that cereal box doing there?" Is that how it went, or is it more like, "Hey, we have this cereal thing."?

那个麦片盒子放在那里做什么？”是这样的，还是更像是，“嘿，我们有这种谷物食品。”？

Jessica Livingston: I don't think Paul and I looked in his backpack and asked.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我认为保罗和我没有查看他的背包并询问。

I think there was definitely some pressure on Joe not to show us the cereal boxes.

我认为乔肯定有一些压力不让我们看麦片盒。

I think Nate was really down on that, especially.

我认为内特对此真的很失望，尤其是。

And I think they were walking out the door and they're like, "Hey, we just brought you a little something." I think Joe did pull it out, and we had an extra minute or so around the cereal boxes.

我认为他们走出门时会说：“嘿，我们刚刚给你带来了一些东西。”我想乔确实把它拿出来了，我们在麦片盒周围多花了一分钟左右的时间。

That's how I heard about the glue gun story and everything.

我就是这样听说胶枪的故事和一切的。

But I think Joe had been reluctant, but he did it at the end and I think it was a good call.

但我认为乔一直不情愿，但他最后还是这么做了，我认为这是一个很好的决定。

Lenny Rachitsky: That's so funny.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：这太有趣了。

And after that meeting, what was that conversation like between you and Paul?

那次会面之后，你和保罗之间的谈话是什么样的？

Was it just like everyone's like, "We definitely got to do this."?

是不是就像每个人都说的那样，“我们一定要这么做”？

Or was it like you being like, "Hey, these guys are really interesting."?

或者你会说，“嘿，这些家伙真的很有趣。”？

Jessica Livingston: No, I think we all liked them.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：不，我想我们都喜欢它们。

We all liked them.

我们都喜欢他们。

But I remember saying, "We have got to..." I just remember being like, "We've got to fund these guys.

但我记得我说过，“我们必须……”我只记得，“我们必须资助这些人。

I don't know about the idea.

我不知道这个想法。

Maybe they'll change their idea, who knows?

也许他们会改变想法，谁知道呢？

But they seem really great." Again, the energy level and the passion with which they spoke about their experience hosting, because they'd been around struggling, but had been a company with an idea for a little while before they applied to YC.

但他们看起来真的很棒。”再次，他们在谈论自己的托管体验时所表现出的能量水平和热情，因为他们一直在苦苦挣扎，但在申请 YC 之前，他们已经是一家有想法的公司一段时间了。

We were there basically their Hail Mary, their last resort for them.

我们在那里基本上是他们的万福玛丽，他们的最后手段。

And so they could tell us about their story about how they hosted the people at a conference, and there was definitely some magic to it, which was convincing.

这样他们就可以向我们讲述他们如何在会议上招待人们的故事，这其中肯定有一些魔力，令人信服。

Lenny Rachitsky: Is there anything else along the Airbnb story that would be interesting to share while we're on that topic?

Lenny Rachitsky：在我们讨论这个话题时，Airbnb 的故事还有什么值得分享的吗？

Jessica Livingston: I mean, the only interesting thing as it relates to being the social radar is that there were just some interviews that I remember because I just thought, this is great.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我的意思是，与社交雷达相关的唯一有趣的事情是，我只记得一些采访，因为我只是想，这太棒了。

These founders are so good.

这些创始人都太优秀了

I'm totally convinced.

我完全相信。

What they're working on might not work, but I feel like it's so worth the bet based on these founders.

他们正在做的事情可能行不通，但我觉得基于这些创始人的赌注是非常值得的。

And that happened.

那件事发生了。

There were definitely a couple other of our most successful companies that I clearly felt that way about.

肯定还有其他几家最成功的公司，我对此也有明显的感受。

You just feel like they know what they're talking about, they thought about the problem.

你只是觉得他们知道自己在说什么，他们思考了问题。

They're not solving this problem because it's sort of the problem du jour or fun and exciting.

他们解决这个问题并不是因为这是一个热门问题，或者是有趣且令人兴奋的问题。

Some are very unsexy problems like when Parker Conrad applied with Zenefits, unsexy HR stuff, benefits stuff.

有些是非常不性感的问题，比如 Parker Conrad 申请 Zenefits 时，不性感的人力资源问题，福利问题。

But he knew how broken it was and was trying to fix it.

但他知道它有多坏，并正在努力修复它。

And I love stories like that.

我喜欢这样的故事。

There was one story in terms of...

有一个故事是关于...

The one time I did sort of persuade the rest of the group to fund someone was, do you know the company GOAT, the sneaker?

有一次我确实说服了团队的其他成员资助某人，你知道运动鞋公司 GOAT 吗？

Jessica Livingston: Okay.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：好的。

When Eddie and Daishin applied, they were not doing the sneaker company, they were doing this group sort of book-a-group-dinner at a restaurant with people you don't know as a way to meet new people.

当埃迪和大信申请时，他们并不是在经营运动鞋公司，而是在一家餐厅与你不认识的人一起预订团体晚餐，以此作为结识新朋友的一种方式。

And for some reason, I loved the idea because I thought maybe it could be a secret dating, like a Trojan Horse for a dating sort of site.

出于某种原因，我喜欢这个想法，因为我认为这可能是一次秘密约会，就像约会网站上的特洛伊木马一样。

But I really loved the two founders.

但我真的很喜欢这两位创始人。

And one of the reasons, again, they had this passion about their idea, but they had had this cream puff company before that they had run, and they just told these stories about how hard it was and all this stuff.

原因之一是，他们对自己的想法充满热情，但他们之前就经营过这家奶油泡芙公司，他们只是讲述这些故事，讲述它是多么困难以及所有这些东西。

And I, for some reason, just thought, these are hustlers.

而我，出于某种原因，只是想，这些都是骗子。

These guys are scrappy.

这些家伙好斗。

They're going to make this succeed.

他们会让这件事成功。

And they didn't make that company succeed, but they pivoted and made GOAT succeed and it's doing really, really well.

他们并没有让那家公司成功，但他们改变了方向，让 GOAT 成功了，而且它做得非常非常好。

And I remember that one I definitely had to convince...

我记得我必须说服一个人......

I mean, not that Paul, Robert and Trevor didn't like them, but I think they really didn't think the idea was that great or just sort of were meh.

我的意思是，并不是说保罗、罗伯特和特雷弗不喜欢他们，但我认为他们真的不认为这个想法有那么伟大，或者只是有点无聊。

I was like, "We have to fund them."

我当时想，“我们必须资助他们。”

Lenny Rachitsky: I love sharing these stories.

Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢分享这些故事。

If you have more to share, please keep throwing them out there.

如果您有更多要分享的内容，请继续将它们扔掉。

Lenny Rachitsky: So a few things I've noted so far, of things that you look for, and I think it's important to note this is very early stage evaluation where the founder and the team is, it's incredibly important, because the idea often shifts.

Lenny Rachitsky：到目前为止，我已经注意到了一些你要寻找的东西，我认为重要的是要注意这是创始人和团队所处的非常早期的评估阶段，这是非常重要的，因为这个想法经常发生变化。

Jessica Livingston: Oh, yeah.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：哦，是的。

This is as early as it gets, Lenny.

这是最早的，莱尼。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。

Oftentimes, just an idea, I imagine.

我想，很多时候，这只是一个想法。

Lenny Rachitsky: So a few things, so far, things that you found to be really valuable to look for.

Lenny Rachitsky：到目前为止，您发现有一些事情非常值得寻找。

One is this idea of just making shit happen, showing signs of being hustlers, just getting shit done, Obama O's, things like that.

其中之一是这种想法，就是让事情发生，表现出骗子的迹象，只是把事情做好，奥巴马，诸如此类的事情。

And then I think along the same lines, just passion for this idea and just like almost charisma.

然后我认为沿着同样的思路，只是对这个想法的热情和几乎就像魅力一样。

Is that how you think about it?

你是这么想的吗？

Or is it just like...

或者说它只是像...

Jessica Livingston: I hate using the word charisma because there are a lot of charismatic people who are full of baloney, and are just doing a startup because it's a cool thing to do now.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我讨厌使用“魅力”这个词，因为有很多有魅力的人充满了胡言乱语，他们只是在创业，因为现在这样做是一件很酷的事情。

And I wouldn't want anyone to get fooled by charisma.

我不希望任何人被魅力所愚弄。

There has to be some substance behind that charisma.

这种魅力背后必须有某种实质内容。

Of course, we all love talking to more charismatic people than less, and I've certainly talked to my fair share of totally uncharismatic people, but sometimes they're really good founders too.

当然，我们都喜欢与更有魅力的人交谈而不是更少，而且我当然也与相当一部分完全没有魅力的人交谈过，但有时他们也是非常好的创始人。

If they know what they're doing and care about the user and are fixing a problem that they have a deep connection to.

如果他们知道自己在做什么并且关心用户并且正在解决与他们有密切联系的问题。

So I don't want to say someone who's charismatic, but it definitely helps because, as you know, as a founder, you have to do a lot of sales and you have to recruit people and you have to convince investors to fund you and you have to convince users to use your product and all of this stuff.

所以我不想说一个有魅力的人，但这绝对有帮助，因为正如你所知，作为创始人，你必须做大量的销售，你必须招募人员，你必须说服投资者为你提供资金，你必须说服用户使用你的产品和所有这些东西。

So it does help being charismatic, definitely.

所以它确实有助于保持魅力，这是肯定的。

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。

So there's being super hustler, making shit happen.

所以就有了超级骗子，让事情发生了。

Domain expertise, something you've mentioned a few times.

领域专业知识，您已经多次提到过。

Just like having deep domain expertise in an area, and I think that's probably where they probably don't pivot oftentimes, where they've actually have experience in that specific problem.

就像在某个领域拥有深厚的领域专业知识一样，我认为这可能是他们可能不经常转向的地方，他们实际上在该特定问题上拥有经验。

Jessica Livingston: They might pivot a little bit, they might pivot a little in terms of the actual solution.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：他们可能会稍微调整一下，他们可能会在实际解决方案方面稍微调整一下。

They might be trying to solve a problem and the first attempt doesn't really work.

他们可能正在尝试解决问题，但第一次尝试并没有真正起作用。

I haven't mentioned earnestness though.

但我还没有提到认真。

Jessica Livingston: Earnestness is one of the most important because earnest, sort of to me, is bucketed with authenticity.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：认真是最重要的之一，因为对我来说，认真是与真实性相结合的。

And to be a successful startup founder, you have to care so much about the problem you're trying to solve, the users you're serving and being earnest about it is so key to success.

要成为一名成功的初创公司创始人，您必须非常关心您要解决的问题、您所服务的用户，并且认真对待它是成功的关键。

There are so many wannabe founders, so many people doing it because it's cool or they think this idea is cool, but they don't really, deep down, have what it takes.

有很多想成为创始人的人，很多人这样做是因为它很酷，或者他们认为这个想法很酷，但他们内心深处并不真正具备所需的条件。

And I think we always try to fund earnest people.

我认为我们总是尽力资助认真的人。

Lenny Rachitsky: What does earnest look like in practice?

Lenny Rachitsky：实践中的认真是什么样的？

And how does that come across?

这是怎么回事？

Jessica Livingston: I think it means being sort of humble about...

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我认为这意味着要谦虚......

And if you get asked a question in the interview and you don't know the answer, they say, "I don't know the answer to that.

如果你在面试中被问到一个问题而你不知道答案，他们会说：“我不知道答案。

I'd have to think about it." Or, "I don't know the answer.

我得考虑一下。”或者，“我不知道答案。

I've given it some thought and here's what I have come up with." And they're just honest about things, and they're not trying to do the whole smoke and mirrors thing, which we've definitely gotten people like that, that avoid the question or are doing it for the wrong reasons.

我已经考虑了一些，这就是我的想法。”他们只是对事情很诚实，他们并没有试图做整个雾里看花的事情，我们肯定遇到过这样的人，他们回避问题或者出于错误的原因这样做。

Jessica Livingston: I remember there was one group that were 45-year-old men and they were building an app for teenagers in fashion.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我记得有一组 45 岁的男性，他们正在为时尚青少年开发一款应用程序。

And I remember just thinking, we were asking them, "Why have you chosen teenagers in fashion?" And it was so clear that they thought they could make easy money, and it wasn't because they cared about fashion.

我记得我们问他们，“你们为什么选择青少年进入时尚界？”很明显，他们认为自己可以轻松赚钱，但这并不是因为他们关心时尚。

It wasn't because, "Oh, I have a daughter who's really into fashion and I've seen this need." It was just like, they made up the idea.

这并不是因为，“哦，我有一个非常喜欢时尚的女儿，我已经看到了这种需求。”就像，他们想出了这个主意。

And that is not earnest, that is not authentic to me.

这对我来说不是真诚的，不是真实的。

Lenny Rachitsky: You talked about it, so there's this earnestness you look for, also not being defensive.

Lenny Rachitsky：你谈到了这一点，所以你需要的是真诚，而不是防御性的。

There's this also spectrum of confidence and people believing in what they're doing.

还有一系列的信心和人们相信他们正在做的事情。

Do you have any thoughts on just how to find that?

您对如何找到它有什么想法吗？

What does that look like when they're too defensive versus they're just confident and then they know what they're talking about?

当他们过于防守而不是自信并且知道自己在说什么时，会是什么样子？

Jessica Livingston: Confidence is good.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：信心是好的。

You definitely want confidence.

你肯定想要自信。

It's hard to...

很难...

I think you can see it when you experience it.

我想当你经历过的时候你就能看到它。

Like someone who's confident in answering your questions but isn't defensive, there's definitely a difference.

就像一个有信心回答你的问题但不进行防御的人一样，这肯定是有区别的。

And I don't know, this is why I'm saying it's sort of hard to articulate these things, but confidence means you can say, "I've thought about that and I don't know the answer." That's confidence.

我不知道，这就是为什么我说很难阐明这些事情，但自信意味着你可以说，“我已经考虑过这个问题，但我不知道答案。”这就是信心。

And they'll say, "But here's what I do to try to figure it out.

他们会说：“但这就是我试图找出答案的方法。

Here are my plans to address that." Confidence, I should have put that upfront because that's very important, especially when it comes to fundraising, you cannot go into an investor meeting lacking confidence.

这是我解决这个问题的计划。”信心，我应该把它放在前面，因为这非常重要，特别是在融资方面，你不能在缺乏信心的情况下参加投资者会议。

You can come into YC's interview lacking confidence, but we will then help you in the next three months to gain more confidence.

你可能在参加YC面试时缺乏信心，但我们会在接下来的三个月里帮助你获得更多信心。

Jessica Livingston: And by the way, one of the things we do to help people gain more confidence is to make them believe that their startup is a great investment, to help them create a startup that truly is possibly going to make money or at least worth being a good bet.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：顺便说一句，我们为帮助人们获得更多信心所做的事情之一就是让他们相信他们的初创公司是一项伟大的投资，帮助他们创建一家真正可能赚钱或至少值得成为一个不错的选择的初创公司。

That's the thing, early stage, the best you can offer is like, "I might not succeed, but I'm definitely a good bet." And we help them with their product, we help them with their ideas, and we help them that, by demo day, they can get up on stage and legitimately say, "We're a good bet and here's why.

就是这样，在早期阶段，你能提供的最好的就是，“我可能不会成功，但我绝对是一个不错的选择。”我们帮助他们开发他们的产品，我们帮助他们提出想法，我们帮助他们，在演示日之前，他们可以站上舞台并合法地说，“我们是一个不错的选择，这就是原因。

Let me tell you about our idea." And so we definitely help with confidence.

让我告诉你我们的想法。”因此，我们绝对会帮助您增强信心。

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

A couple other things you mentioned earlier, just to unpack a little bit.

您之前提到的其他一些事情，只是为了稍微展开一下。

So being committed, something you look for, and co-founders getting along.

因此，要忠诚，要寻找一些东西，并且与联合创始人相处融洽。

In terms of committed, I imagine, these are very practical things.

就承诺而言，我想这些都是非常实际的事情。

How are they actually going to stick to this?

他们实际上将如何坚持这一点？

Are they actually excited to work on this?

他们真的对这方面的工作感到兴奋吗？

Maybe talk about that a little bit.

或许可以稍微谈谈这一点。

Jessica Livingston: We all know how hard startups are, but I think you don't really know how hard it is until you actually do it.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我们都知道创业有多难，但我认为只有你真正去做了，你才真正知道它有多难。

A lot of people would start a startup still having a job at Google or wherever, and they do it on the side.

很多人会一边在谷歌或其他地方工作，一边创办一家初创公司，而且他们是兼职做这件事的。

I do recommend, if people are just getting started and don't want to raise money yet, starting it on the side is a great way to get going, but at some point you have to commit, you have to burn the boat, because we found that founders who were still getting a paycheck and health insurance, once the going got tough, they did not quit their job.

我确实建议，如果人们刚刚开始并且还不想筹集资金，那么从侧面开始是一个很好的开始方式，但在某些时候你必须做出承诺，你必须烧毁船，因为我们发现仍在领取薪水和健康保险的创始人一旦事情变得艰难，他们就不会辞职。

And you sort of need that desperation like, "I have to make this startup succeed because it's my job." Not like, "Oh, I'll just stay at Google." You need that.

你有点需要那种绝望，比如“我必须让这家初创公司成功，因为这是我的工作。”而不是“哦，我会留在谷歌”。你需要那个。

And we found that founders who weren't leaving their jobs, it was just not working out.

我们发现，那些没有离职的创始人，只是没有成功。

Or that co-founder would always wind up leaving the company because they didn't want to actually leave their job.

或者联合创始人最终总是会离开公司，因为他们不想真正离开工作岗位。

Jessica Livingston: And that's fine, there are people that can't leave their jobs for financial reasons.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：没关系，有些人因为经济原因不能离开工作。

That's fine.

没关系。

You just shouldn't be starting a startup if you're not going to be prepared to leave your job.

如果你不准备离开你的工作，你就不应该开始创业。

So that's the leaving of the job thing.

这就是离职的事情。

And the co-founders getting along, oh my.

和联合创始人相处融洽，天哪。

I spent a lot of my time at Y Combinator when I was there all the time, full time, mediating co-founder disputes.

我在 Y Combinator 花了很多时间，全职调解联合创始人的纠纷。

And so many startups died or had near-death experiences because the co-founders didn't get along or broke up.

如此多的初创公司死亡或濒临死亡的经历是因为联合创始人相处不好或分手。

It just happens all the time.

这种事一直都在发生。

And so that's why I think, during interviews, I was desperately trying to search for any clues that the co-founders didn't get along, or if they blatantly contradicted each other.

这就是为什么我认为，在采访过程中，我拼命地寻找联合创始人不合群的线索，或者他们是否公然相互矛盾。

But you could also tell if they were answering, finishing each other's sentences.

但你也可以判断他们是否在回答，是否完成了对方的句子。

Jessica Livingston: I love co-founders that have a history together; either they went to school together, they went to college together, work together, maybe they're siblings.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我喜欢有共同历史的联合创始人；他们要么一起上学，一起上大学，一起工作，也许他们是兄弟姐妹。

Because when you have a long-term relationship, you trust each other and you know each other's weaknesses, and you're usually on the same page with your aspirations and everything.

因为当你们建立长期关系时，你们会互相信任，并且了解彼此的弱点，而且你们通常会在自己的愿望和一切方面达成一致。

It's really scary when two founders get together just to start the startup and don't have any history.

当两个创始人聚在一起只是为了创办一家初创公司而没有任何历史时，这真的很可怕。

Massive red flag.

巨大的红旗。

Sometimes it works out like in the case of Dropbox, Drew and Arash both went to MIT, but I think they didn't know each other before they started Dropbox, and it worked out.

有时候，就像 Dropbox 的情况一样，Drew 和 Arash 都去了麻省理工学院，但我认为他们在创建 Dropbox 之前并不认识，但最终还是成功了。

But most of the time it doesn't.

但大多数时候并非如此。

Lenny Rachitsky: So we've talked about co-founders getting along, looking for defensiveness, domain expertise, the sign of making shit happen, earnestness.

Lenny Rachitsky：所以我们讨论了联合创始人的相处、寻找防御性、领域专业知识、让事情发生的迹象、真诚。

Is there anything else that we've missed that you look for in the founders that tell you maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't?

我们是否遗漏了您在创始人身上寻找的其他东西，告诉您我们也许应该，也许我们不应该？

Jessica Livingston: Relentlessly resourceful.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：足智多谋。

Paul wrote a whole essay on that.

保罗就此写了整篇文章。

Every founder is different, I never try to say, "Oh, this person doesn't have this.

每个创始人都是不同的，我从来没有试图说，“哦，这个人没有这个。

I'm not going to fund them." You always have to...

我不会资助他们。”你总是必须...

Everyone's different.

每个人都不同。

But I mean, you're an investor.

但我的意思是，你是投资者。

I'm curious, do any of these things surprise you or do you care about these things too?

我很好奇，这些事情有没有让你感到惊讶或者你也关心这些​​事情？

Lenny Rachitsky: No, absolutely not.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：不，绝对不。

Absolutely.

绝对地。

And I actually try to avoid pre-seed and early stage because I'm not amazing at it, maybe.

事实上，我会尽量避免种子前和早期阶段，因为也许我对此并不擅长。

This is why I want to learn how to build my social radar skill.

这就是为什么我想学习如何培养我的社交雷达技能。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。

Tough.

艰难的。

It's so tough.

太难了。

It's like so few things actually work out.

好像真正成功的事情很少。

Jessica Livingston: Well, it's because you don't have a lot of data.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：嗯，这是因为你没有很多数据。

If someone is just applying with an idea, you have very little data.

如果有人只是提出一个想法来申请，那么你拥有的数据就很少。

You can look at where they went to college, what have they built in the past, that's always a great predictor of their ability.

你可以看看他们在哪里上的大学，他们过去建立了什么，这总是他们能力的一个很好的预测指标。

And so on the YC's application, we ask them, "What project have you worked on before?" Or whatever.

所以在 YC 的申请中，我们会问他们：“你以前做过什么项目？”或者无论如何。

But it's really hard to tell when you're the first investor.

但当你是第一个投资者时，真的很难说。

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Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Vanta 为您带来。

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当谈到确保您的公司拥有一流的安全实践时，事情很快就会变得复杂。

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Vanta 市场领先的信任管理平台可帮助您持续监控合规性以及报告和跟踪风险。

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加入数千家使用 Vanta 自动化证据收集、统一风险管理和简化安全审查的全球公司行列。

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访问vanta.com/Lenny，即可享受Vanta 1,000 美元优惠。

That's V-A-N-T-A dot com slash Lenny.

那是 V-A-N-T-A . com 斜杠莱尼。

Lenny Rachitsky: When did you first notice that you had this social radar-ish skill and you're better at this than other people?

Lenny Rachitsky：你什么时候第一次注意到你拥有这种社交雷达般的技能，并且你比其他人更擅长？

Jessica Livingston: Paul used to always call me Detective Livingston.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：保罗过去总是叫我利文斯顿侦探。

Before I was a social radar, I was Detective Livingston.

在成为社交雷达之前，我是利文斯顿侦探。

I cannot help myself noticing weird things, just dumb things, like if Paul had on a yellow T-shirt and then an hour later came in with a blue T-shirt, I'd be like, "Why do you have a blue T-shirt on?" I have to understand what happened in that hour where that T-shirt is different.

我无法控制自己注意到奇怪的事情，只是愚蠢的事情，就像如果保罗穿着黄色 T 恤，然后一个小时后穿着蓝色 T 恤进来，我会说，“你为什么穿蓝色 T 恤？”我必须了解那件 T 恤与众不同的那一刻发生了什么。

Or people's what, their relationships, what drives them?

或者人们是什么，他们的关系，是什么驱使他们？

I was always like this, and I think it goes back to my childhood.

我一直都是这样，我想这可以追溯到我的童年。

Jessica Livingston: I spent hours and hours on the phone with people, with my girlfriends, dissecting situations, and then all through high school, and college, I mean the amount of time we wasted discussing social matters with people, and boys, and things like that.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我花了好几个小时与人、与我的女朋友通电话，剖析情况，然后在整个高中和大学，我的意思是我们浪费在与人、男孩讨论社会问题以及类似的事情上的时间。

It was just frightening how much time I wasted, but I just was genuinely interested in it.

我浪费了多少时间真是太可怕了，但我真的对此很感兴趣。

And what drives people and why did this happen?

是什么驱使人们以及为什么会发生这种情况？

I don't know if I ever noticed I did this, but it was just, my point is, it's always been a part of me.

我不知道我是否注意到我这样做了，但我的观点是，它一直是我的一部分。

And I definitely notice and having an aversion to phony people.

我确实注意到并厌恶虚伪的人。

I always have.

我一直都有。

I've never been one to fall for someone who's super phony and tried to have them as a friend or anything.

我从来都不是一个会爱上一个超级虚伪的人并试图将他们当作朋友或其他什么的人。

I just can tell, and ugh, I hate it.

我只能说，呃，我讨厌它。

Lenny Rachitsky: Do you feel like it's almost all genetic or do you think there was something in your childhood that pushed you to be good at this?

Lenny Rachitsky：你觉得这几乎全是遗传的吗？或者你认为你童年时有什么东西促使你擅长这件事吗？

Jessica Livingston: I don't know.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我不知道。

I really don't know.

我真的不知道。

So this is why I think I'm going to be a bad guest, because I can't give a practical understanding.

所以这就是为什么我认为我会成为一个坏客人，因为我无法给出实际的理解。

I mean, I don't really think...

我的意思是，我真的不认为...

I can't say other people in my family are like that, and I can't say that it was part of my upbringing.

我不能说我家里的其他人都是这样，我也不能说这是我成长过程中的一部分。

I just notice these things.

我只是注意到这些事情。

I don't know.

我不知道。

I should be paying attention to other things, but I'm not, but I'm paying attention to this.

我应该关注其他事情，但我没有，但我正在关注这个。

I'll give you an example with you.

我给你举个例子。

Jessica Livingston: So I looked up your bio to read a little bit about you, and I loved the Dalton Caldwell Podcast.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：所以我查了你的简历，了解了一些关于你的信息，我喜欢道尔顿·考德威尔播客。

I listened to that.

我听了。

Lenny Rachitsky: Fourth most popular of all time.

Lenny Rachitsky：有史以来第四受欢迎的。

Jessica Livingston: Oh, go Dalton.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：哦，去道尔顿。

That's awesome.

太棒了。

Yeah, it was really good.

是的，真的很好。

I learned a lot from it.

我从中学到了很多。

I love listening to Dalton.

我喜欢听道尔顿。

But what I really want to know about you is, on the release that you sent, or on the instructions for this podcast, you said, "There might be some edge cases where your podcast isn't good enough to go out.

但我真正想了解的是，在您发送的新闻稿或该播客的说明中，您说：“可能存在一些边缘情况，您的播客不够好，无法发布。

We just want to warn you." And all I could think of is, what prompted that?

我们只是想警告你。”我能想到的就是，是什么促使了这一点？

There has to be a story of what prompted that.

一定有一个故事来说明是什么促使了这一点。

No one else would pay attention to that, but I'm just so curious.

没有人会关注这一点，但我只是很好奇。

It's so weird.

太奇怪了。

I'm just a weird person like this.

我就是这样一个奇怪的人。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yes, I did add that.

Lenny Rachitsky：是的，我确实补充了这一点。

There's a story, basically, it was just an episode that wasn't amazing and we didn't have that caveat in the prep beforehand, and it felt bad to tell the person.

有一个故事，基本上，这只是一个并不令人惊奇的插曲，我们事先没有在准备中提出警告，告诉这个人感觉很糟糕。

Jessica Livingston: See, I knew it.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：看，我就知道。

I knew that that had happened.

我知道那件事已经发生了。

Lenny Rachitsky: That's exactly right.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：完全正确。

Is there kind of a way you've thought about honing this skill over time?

您是否考虑过通过某种方式来随着时间的推移磨练这项技能？

Once you kind of got a sense, "Hey, people keep telling me I'm really good at this." Is there something you've done to help strengthen it?

一旦你有了某种感觉，“嘿，人们一直告诉我，我真的很擅长这个。”你做了什么来帮助加强它吗？

Jessica Livingston: No, but one of the things I do try to do is sort of reinforce.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：不，但我确实尝试做的事情之一就是强化。

Sometimes I'll have a feeling about someone, maybe we fund them, maybe we don't.

有时我会对某人产生一种感觉，也许我们资助他们，也许我们不资助他们。

I'd sort of like to know what happens a few years later.

我有点想知道几年后会发生什么。

I like to follow up.

我喜欢跟进。

There definitely have been some situations where I haven't liked someone that we funded and it's taken 5 to 10 years before they failed.

肯定有过一些情况，我不喜欢我们资助的某个人，而他们花了 5 到 10 年才失败。

And in some cases, for a bad reason.

在某些情况下，是出于不好的原因。

Where I'll say, "Oh, thank God, I was right about that.

我会说：“哦，感谢上帝，我是对的。

I did have this feeling." Or, "I knew they'd be successful." Like the GOAT guys who I was saying before, there was definitely a period when Grubwithus, their first startup wasn't doing well, and they were starting, that maybe some people would've given up on them.

我确实有这种感觉。”或者，“我知道他们会成功。”就像我之前说过的那些 GOAT 人一样，他们的第一家初创公司 Grubwithus 肯定有一段时间表现不佳，而他们刚刚起步，也许有些人会放弃他们。

And now I can say, "I was right about them.

现在我可以说：“我对他们的看法是对的。

That feeling was right."

这种感觉是对的。”

Jessica Livingston: So I do try to sort of follow up with some of the really strong gut instincts that I had, to see if I was right.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：所以我确实尝试跟进一些我拥有的非常强烈的直觉，看看我是否是对的。

Often, when I have a gut instinct, it's like a negative thing.

通常，当我有直觉时，它就像是一件消极的事情。

So we wind up not funding someone.

所以我们最终没有资助某人。

So I really need to know if that person went on to be super successful.

所以我真的需要知道那个人是否继续取得超级成功。

And I will answer your question right now, there's no one that I had a strong dislike for that I sort of said, "We should not fund them," that has gone on to be a super success.

我现在就回答你的问题，没有人是我强烈不喜欢的，我说过，“我们不应该资助他们”，这已经取得了巨大的成功。

Thank God.

感谢上帝。

Jessica Livingston: I mean, it doesn't happen all the time that I really put my foot down, but sometimes I have.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我的意思是，我并不是每次都会真正坚定立场，但有时我会这么做。

Lenny Rachitsky: And this feeling, is it like a visceral body thing for you?

Lenny Rachitsky：这种感觉对你来说是一种内脏的感觉吗？

Or is it like intellectually, you notice, "Hey, this guy's interrupting her and this person doesn't..."?

或者你是否注意到，“嘿，这个人正在打断她，而这个人没有......”？

Jessica Livingston: More intellectual.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：更加知性。

But it does come from inside.

但它确实来自内部。

I don't know how to hone it.

我不知道如何磨练它。

It has to come naturally.

它必须是自然而然的。

You have to have a natural interest in people.

你必须对人有天然的兴趣。

And so I'm sometimes not listening to all the words and I'm sort of just observing them, I don't know.

所以有时我并没有听所有的话，我只是观察它们，我不知道。

Lenny Rachitsky: Have you ever been tricked by someone where you didn't see something you should have seen?

Lenny Rachitsky：你是否曾被某人欺骗过，而你却没有看到你应该看到的东西？

Is there anything there?

那里有什么吗？

Jessica Livingston: Oh, yeah, for sure.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：哦，是的，当然。

I can't really talk about the times I have been tricked just because I don't want to say anything really negative about people, but...

我不能真正谈论我被欺骗的时候，只是因为我不想说任何关于人们的负面言论，但是......

Well, there was one example that I do feel comfortable sharing.

嗯，有一个我确实愿意分享的例子。

Ilya Lichtenstein of MixRank.

MixRank 的伊利亚·利希滕斯坦。

Do you know the guy that stole billions of dollars in Bitcoin from a crypto wallet?

你认识那个从加密钱包中偷走了数十亿美元比特币的人吗？

Do you not know this crazy, crazy story?

你不知道这个疯狂、疯狂的故事吗？

Jessica Livingston: I think he's in the joint now.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我想他现在已经加入了。

He was definitely convicted of this, and his wife, and they stole billions of dollars.

他和他的妻子肯定因此被定罪，他们偷了数十亿美元。

And I definitely don't remember thinking anything bad about him or thinking he could be that kind of person.

我绝对不记得对他有任何不好的看法，或者认为他可能是那样的人。

So that definitely, there've been some doozies like that, where, did not see that one coming.

所以，肯定有一些类似的事情，但没有看到那个人的到来。

Lenny Rachitsky: Oh my God.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：天啊。

I think what's extraordinary about the fact that that happens rarely is that your interviews are 10 minutes long, and so you have very little time to actually find all these things.

我认为这种情况很少发生这一事实的非凡之处在于你的采访长达 10 分钟，所以你几乎没有时间去真正找到所有这些东西。

And plus, the actual product and the idea and growth strategy and all these things.

另外，还有实际的产品、想法、增长策略等等。

Jessica Livingston: Well, you find a lot can come in reading the application.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：嗯，阅读申请表你会发现很多东西。

That's a lot of legwork at the beginning.

一开始有很多跑腿的工作。

You read the application.

您阅读了该申请。

But then the 10 minutes is kind of as long as you need, in most cases.

但在大多数情况下，10 分钟就足够了。

Because we found when they were longer, like 20 minutes, you'd know in 10 minutes and be twiddling your thumbs trying to get through the interview for the next 10 minutes.

因为我们发现，当面试时间较长时，比如 20 分钟，你会在 10 分钟内知道结果，但在接下来的 10 分钟里却只能无所事事地试图完成面试。

So we kept them short so we could interview more people.

所以我们保持简短，这样我们就可以采访更多的人。

But there have definitely been cases where we've interviewed people, accepted them, and then very soon afterward, we're sort of like, crestfallen like, "Oh, these people are very limp.

但肯定有这样的情况：我们采访了一些人，接受了他们，然后不久之后，我们有点像，垂头丧气的，“哦，这些人非常软弱。

What were we thinking?" Definitely, we've been tricked in that respect all the time.

我们在想什么？”当然，我们在这方面一直被欺骗。

Or, "Oh gosh, they seem so impressive in the interview and now they're just posers who can't really do anything." Definitely, I'm tricked all the time in little ways.

或者，“天哪，他们在采访中看起来令人印象深刻，但现在他们只是装腔作势，什么也做不了。”确实，我总是被一些小事欺骗。

Or, I didn't notice two founders didn't get along and then one co-founder goes missing a week into the program or something crazy.

或者，我没有注意到两位创始人相处得不好，然后一位联合创始人在项目开始一周后就失踪了，或者发生了一些疯狂的事情。

There's all sorts of crazy stuff like that that happen.

诸如此类的疯狂事情时有发生。

Lenny Rachitsky: I think in the game you're playing, I would expect some things to slip through.

Lenny Rachitsky：我认为在你正在玩的游戏中，我希望有些事情会被忽略。

Lenny Rachitsky: You said that there's been kind of an operationalization of some of the things you used to look for in founders, now that you're not actually in the process.

Lenny Rachitsky：你说过你过去在创始人身上寻找的一些东西已经实现了，但现在你实际上并没有参与这个过程。

Is there a Jessica-as-a-service sort of thing?

有没有 Jessica 即服务之类的东西？

What kind of stuff have they built that looks for the sorts of things you used to look for in the interview process?

他们构建了哪些东西来寻找你过去在面试过程中寻找的东西？

Jessica Livingston: No, it's all just stuff in application that automatically flags certain things.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：不，这只是应用程序中自动标记某些内容的东西。

I actually don't remember all of them, but it's just, all it is, is a, "Please pay attention to this, reader of the application." It's not, "This disqualifies anyone." It's, "Just please pay attention." And those are things like I mentioned, a really crazy equity structure, founders not quitting their job, things like that, that it's important that someone is voting on them and then interviewing them knows.

我实际上不记得所有这些，但它只是，所有的内容，就是“请注意这一点，该应用程序的读者。”这并不是说“这会取消任何人的资格”。就是“请注意。”这些就是我提到的事情，一个非常疯狂的股权结构，创始人不辞去工作，诸如此类的事情，重要的是有人对他们进行投票，然后采访他们知道。

Because I would often, some of the questions I'd ask at the end of the interview, I'd say, "It looks like you have 90% of the stock and your co-founder only has one.

因为我经常会在面试结束时问的一些问题中说：“看起来你拥有 90% 的股票，而你的联合创始人只有一份。

Can you tell us why that's the case?" And maybe they could make a case for it, who knows?

你能告诉我们为什么会这样吗？”也许他们可以为此提出理由，谁知道呢？

But at least I'd ask.

但至少我会问。

So the flags just say, "Pay attention to it."

所以旗帜只是说：“注意它。”

Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

So if we were to zoom out, in early stage investing, the main thing you need to get right and evaluate as the founder, the social radar skill that you've had from childhood is such an incredible advantage in doing this well, and you could basically say YC is what it is because of this unfair advantage that you all had in the early days.

因此，如果我们要缩小范围，在早期投资中，作为创始人，你需要做对和评估的主要事情是，你从小就拥有的社交雷达技能是做好这件​​事的令人难以置信的优势，你基本上可以说 YC 就是这样，因为你们在早期都拥有这种不公平的优势。

I'm guessing many people listening to this are like, "We need a Jessica on our team.

我猜很多人听到这个都会说，“我们的团队需要一个杰西卡。

We need to build this skill ourselves.

我们需要自己培养这项技能。

We need to figure out how to integrate social radar into our process." I know you're going to hate this question, but just, do you have any advice for people that want to try to build the skill, get better at this, notice some of these things?

我们需要弄清楚如何将社交雷达整合到我们的流程中。”我知道你会讨厌这个问题，但是，对于那些想要尝试培养技能、在这方面做得更好、注意其中一些事情的人，你有什么建议吗？

Jessica Livingston: I really think that our advantage was that my three co-founders were deeply technical people.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我真的认为我们的优势在于我的三位联合创始人都是深厚的技术人员。

And I think a lot of investors back then weren't, didn't have that background.

我认为当时的很多投资者都没有这样的背景。

And I think that that background really helped YC choose good founders.

我认为这种背景确实帮助 YC 选择了优秀的创始人。

So I don't want to make it sound like it was that big of a deal, but advice?

所以我不想让这听起来像是一件大事，但是建议呢？

Advice for how to hone...

关于如何磨练的建议...

I mean, I think just try to pay attention to subtle cues.

我的意思是，我认为只要尝试注意微妙的线索即可。

If you really feel like, gosh, I'm so clueless about these things, try to just tell yourself, "Okay, I'm going in to evaluate these founders, evaluate this investment opportunity.

如果你真的觉得，天哪，我对这些事情一无所知，试着告诉自己，“好吧，我要评估这些创始人，评估这个投资机会。

I know I'm bad at these kind of judgments.

我知道我不擅长做出此类判断。

I'm going to remember, do they seem like they get along?" Because there are no trick questions.

我要记住，他们看起来相处得好吗？”因为没有什么技巧性的问题。

I don't have any trick questions that you could ask, or it's just paying attention.

我没有什么可以问的技巧问题，或者只是注意一下。

Have a conversation.

交谈一下。

Jessica Livingston: Do they understand their product well?

杰西卡·利文斯顿：他们很了解自己的产品吗？

Are they defensive?

他们是防守型的吗？

Maybe have your own little checklist that you think about.

也许您有自己的小清单供您考虑。

You don't have to have it written down, but you think about, and then afterward, you spend some time thinking, were they defensive?

你不必把它写下来，但你想一想，然后你花一些时间思考，他们是否具有防御性？

When I asked them why this is better than the competitor, how did that go?

当我问他们为什么这比竞争对手更好时，情况如何？

Or ask them, maybe do have some questions, if you don't know how long they've known each other, ask them that question.

或者问他们，也许确实有一些问题，如果你不知道他们认识多久，就问他们这个问题。

"How did you two meet?

“你们两个是怎么认识的？

Have you ever worked together before?

你们以前合作过吗？

How's it going?" Just be a little bit more conscious about asking these types of questions to reveal some key information for your investment decision.

怎么样？”只要更加有意识地提出这些类型的问题，即可揭示一些有助于您做出投资决策的关键信息。

Lenny Rachitsky: That was an awesome summary of a lot of the stuff we talked about.

Lenny Rachitsky：这是对我们讨论的很多内容的精彩总结。

If anyone ever doubts that you are very good at this, Paul tweeted this quiz, the Reading the Mind in the Eyes quiz, that I took, it's incredibly hard.

如果有人怀疑你是否擅长于此，保罗在推特上发布了我参加的这个测验，即“从眼睛里读懂思想”测验，这非常困难。

You basically see a bunch of eyes and you're supposed to judge their emotion, and it's really hard.

你基本上会看到一堆眼睛，你应该判断他们的情绪，但这真的很难。

And you got 36 out of 36, which blows my mind.

36 分中你得了 36 分，这让我大吃一惊。

Jessica Livingston: I did nail it.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我确实做到了。

I do have to tell a funny story about this.

我确实必须讲一个有趣的故事。

Jessica Livingston: So Paul, sort of late at night, and he emailed me, because I had gone to bed, but I had my thing, and he emailed me.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：所以保罗，在深夜，他给我发了电子邮件，因为我已经上床睡觉了，但我有我的东西，他给我发了电子邮件。

He's like, "Check out this quiz.

他说，“看看这个测验。

I got 25 out of 36.

36 分中我得了 25 分。

What can you get?" So I got my computer out because I was like, I have to beat Paul.

你能得到什么？”所以我拿出电脑，因为我想，我必须击败保罗。

And I did it, and it was really hard.

我做到了，而且真的很难。

They'd only show the eyes and then it would say, what is this person thinking?

他们只露出眼睛，然后它就会说，这个人在想什么？

Are they happy, sad?

他们快乐、悲伤吗？

But some of them were really hard to distinguish.

但其中一些确实很难区分。

Are they irritated or are they angry?

他们是生气还是生气？

It's kind of hard to tell the difference between irritated and angry.

很难区分恼怒和生气之间的区别。

And I remember looking into these people's eyes saying, "What are they trying to communicate to me?

我记得看着这些人的眼睛说：“他们想向我传达什么信息？

Are they irritated with me or are they mad at me?" Kind of thing.

他们是生我的气还是生我的气？”类似的事情。

Jessica Livingston: And as I went through, it would tell you if you got it correct.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：当我经历过时，它会告诉你是否正确。

As I almost got to the end, I was like, "Oh my God, this is going to be a near-perfect score.

当我快要结束时，我想，“天哪，这将是一个近乎完美的分数。

I have to nail this." And when I got 36 out of 36, I was like, "Yes." And I told Paul, he tweeted it.

我必须解决这个问题。”当我从 36 个中得到 36 个时，我说：“是的。”我告诉保罗，他发了推文。

We then, a week later, had this YC event in London, and I swear to God, about 10 people came up to me to talk about this eye quiz and how they had not done well, and what was my secret?

一周后，我们在伦敦举办了 YC 活动，我向上帝发誓，大约有 10 个人来找我谈论这个眼睛测验以及他们如何做得不好，以及我的秘诀是什么？

It was very amusing.

非常有趣。

I never thought that anyone would think it was that interesting.

我从没想过有人会觉得这很有趣。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love that there's this thing that totally shows this skill you have that is better than everyone else.

Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢这个东西，它完全展示了你比其他人都更好的技能。

I took it, all my friends have taken it after that tweet, and the highest we've gotten is 31 of all the people I know.

我收到了它，我所有的朋友在那条推文之后都收到了它，我们得到的最高的是我认识的所有人中的 31 人。

Lenny Rachitsky: And I think when people take it, we'll link to it, they're going to be like, "How can you get 36 out of 36?

Lenny Rachitsky：我认为当人们接受它时，我们会链接到它，他们会说，“你怎么能从 36 个中得到 36 个呢？

Impossible."

不可能的。”

Jessica Livingston: You have to look into their eyes and say, "What are they trying to tell me?" I hope you're not trying to tell me you're full of shit with your eyes.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：你必须看着他们的眼睛说：“他们想告诉我什么？”我希望你不是想告诉我你的眼睛充满了狗屎。

Lenny Rachitsky: I'm feeling despondent.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我感到沮丧。

Just kidding.

只是在开玩笑。

That's one of the options.

这是选项之一。

I'm like, "What does that even mean?"

我想，“这是什么意思？”

Jessica Livingston: I know.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我知道。

Well, that's the other thing I told Paul, also the challenge is, you really have to understand what each feeling, what that word means.

嗯，这是我告诉保罗的另一件事，挑战也是，你真的必须理解每种感觉，那个词的含义。

He's like, "Oh, that didn't even occur to me." Because he's such a word person and knows the exact definition of every single word.

他说：“哦，我根本没想到这一点。”因为他是一个非常善于用词的人，并且知道每个词的确切定义。

But I thought some people will struggle understanding the complexities of the emotion.

但我认为有些人很难理解这种情感的复杂性。

Lenny Rachitsky: With the words, I almost felt like I had to do what you did where just like, "What does this word feel like when I'm reading it?

莱尼·拉奇茨基（Lenny Rachitsky）：有了这些话，我几乎觉得我必须做你所做的事情，就像，“当我读到这个词时，感觉如何？

Despondent, let's see if these eyes are despondent." I love that trick you shared.

沮丧，看看这双眼睛是否沮丧。”我喜欢你分享的那个技巧。

So basically you looked at the eyes and you're like, "What is this person trying to tell me?"

所以基本上你看着眼睛就会想，“这个人想告诉我什么？”

Jessica Livingston: Yeah, that's the best I could do.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：是的，这是我能做的最好的事情。

Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

So we're going to link to that quiz.

所以我们将链接到该测验。

I'm curious what people, if you take it, please leave your score in the comments, see if anyone can get anywhere near Jessica's score.

我很好奇有哪些人，如果你接受了，请在评论中留下你的分数，看看是否有人能接近杰西卡的分数。

Okay.

好的。

So speaking of social radar-ing, you have a podcast called The Social Radars.

说到社交雷达，有一个名为“社交雷达”的播客。

Lenny Rachitsky: First of all, just why did you decide to start a podcast?

Lenny Rachitsky：首先，你为什么决定开始播客？

There's a lot of podcasts in the world.

世界上有很多播客。

What made you decide to start one?

是什么让你决定开始一项工作？

Jessica Livingston: Well, I'm really excited that you're asking that question because no one has ever asked me about The Social Radars.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：嗯，我真的很高兴你问这个问题，因为没有人问过我有关社交雷达的问题。

Yes, I mean, it's pretty new, but we launched last year.

是的，我的意思是，它很新，但我们去年就推出了。

I decided to start The Social Radars because I live off in the English countryside, not really as connected as I'd like to be with Silicon Valley, partly by choice, but I do miss it a lot.

我决定创办 The Social Radars 是因为我住在英国乡村，与硅谷的联系并不像我希望的那样，部分是我的选择，但我确实很想念它。

And I was finding that as I was catching up with YC alumni that would come visit or I'd see, I just loved the conversations we were having, and I missed that.

我发现，当我与来访或我会见的 YC 校友会面时，我很喜欢我们正在进行的对话，但我很怀念这一点。

I missed that connection with these people, and sort of sharing their stories of triumph and failure in some cases, but mostly triumph.

我怀念与这些人的联系，在某些情况下分享他们的成功和失败的故事，但大多数是胜利。

At the same time, I became obsessed with this podcast called SmartLess.

与此同时，我开始沉迷于这个名为 SmartLess 的播客。

Have you ever heard of it?

你听说过吗？

Lenny Rachitsky: I've heard of it, haven't listened.

Lenny Rachitsky：我听说过，但没听过。

Jessica Livingston: Okay.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：好的。

So just for the listeners, it is a podcast hosted by three actors; Jason Bateman, Will Arnett and Sean Hayes.

所以对于听众来说，这是一个由三位演员主持的播客；杰森·贝特曼、威尔·阿奈特和肖恩·海耶斯。

And they invite Hollywood people, actors, directors, musicians, sometimes athletes, on the show.

他们邀请好莱坞人士、演员、导演、音乐家，有时甚至是运动员来参加演出。

And the thing is, one person, one of the hosts invites the guests, the other two don't know.

事情是这样的，一个人，其中一位主人邀请客人，另外两位不知道。

So there's no preparation, and it's the most fascinating thing.

所以没有任何准备，这才是最令人着迷的。

I love movies and I love television, and I can tell you another weird eccentric gift of mine is I remember every name in Hollywood and know all their children and all this stuff because I've been reading People Magazine since I was 13.

我喜欢电影和电视，我可以告诉你我的另一个奇怪的天赋是我记得好莱坞的每个名字，知道他们所有的孩子和所有这些东西，因为我从 13 岁起就开始阅读《人物》杂志。

So I loved, you'd learn so much about the actors as people because they weren't talking from a script or their media messages for promoting a movie.

所以我喜欢，你会了解到很多关于演员的信息，因为他们不是从剧本或媒体信息中来宣传电影。

It was like just genuine conversations.

这就像真正的对话。

Most of the time these actors knew the people and were friends, and I just found it fascinating.

大多数时候，这些演员都认识人们并且是朋友，我觉得这很有趣。

I could not stop.

我无法停下来。

Jessica Livingston: And I thought there should be a really informal conversation like this with startup founders so people could understand the people behind the startups.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我认为应该与初创公司创始人进行一次真正非正式的对话，这样人们就可以了解初创公司背后的人。

And it's not too scripted and not too, maybe, I don't want to say professional, because I hope it's professional sounding, but it's very conversational and authentic.

它不是太照本宣科，也不是太，也许，我不想说专业，因为我希望它听起来很专业，但它非常对话和真实。

I was trying to mimic that a little bit.

我试图模仿一下。

I convinced my colleague and friend, Carolynn Levy, who of course has a full-time job being one of the amazing lawyers within YC, and she's super busy.

我说服了我的同事兼朋友 Carolynn Levy，她当然有一份全职工作，是 YC 内最出色的律师之一，而且她非常忙碌。

I convinced her to do it with me so I could have a partner in crime.

我说服她和我一起做，这样我就可以有一个犯罪伙伴。

And then we just started and I said, "We'll do a few episodes, see how it goes, and we'll keep going if it's fun." And I have had so much fun catching up with all the people I've interviewed.

然后我们就开始了，我说，“我们会做几集，看看进展如何，如果有趣的话我们会继续下去。”与所有我采访过的人进行交流让我感到非常有趣。

At this point, I forget how many podcasts I've even done, but maybe-

此时，我忘记了我已经做了多少播客，但也许-

Jessica Livingston: 27 that have launched yet, and there's a few coming out.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：已经推出了 27 个，还有一些即将推出。

Season three, we're still in the middle of that, and still editing some and doing some.

第三季，我们仍处于中间阶段，仍在编辑一些内容并做一些工作。

But it's been so much fun and I love it, and I hope that people enjoy listening.

但它非常有趣，我喜欢它，我希望人们喜欢听。

I hope I'm not just working this really small corner of the room.

我希望我不只是在房间的这个很小的角落里工作。

I hope people enjoy unstructured conversations.

我希望人们喜欢非结构化的对话。

But people open up to me though, because what I copied from SmartLess that I liked, they'd say, "Hey, remember when we were at that Oscars party and this happened..." Because they had that relationship with the people they're interviewing, in a lot of cases, I feel like I've had that with a lot of people I'm interviewing and I could say, "Hey, Brian, remember when you interviewed and brought the cereal boxes?" And he could tell, he shared that story.

但人们对我敞开心扉，因为我从 SmartLess 中复制了我喜欢的内容，他们会说，“嘿，记得当我们参加奥斯卡派对时，这件事发生了……”因为他们与正在采访的人有这种关系，在很多情况下，我觉得我和我正在采访的很多人都有这种关系，我可以说，“嘿，布莱恩，还记得你采访并带来麦片盒的时候吗？”他可以说，他分享了这个故事。

I don't think I knew it before then that they were on the 101 and the phone went out, the reception went out before Paul said that they were accepted.

我想在那之前我并不知道他们打的是 101，在保罗说他们被接受之前，电话就断了，接待处也断了。

So I learn a lot, and it's really just fascinating to me.

所以我学到了很多东西，这对我来说真的很着迷。

Lenny Rachitsky: Well, it's an awesome podcast, I've been listening.

Lenny Rachitsky：嗯，这是一个很棒的播客，我一直在听。

I'm going to just read some of the guests that you've had on, just so people get a sense of who you're interviewing.

我将阅读您采访过的一些嘉宾，以便人们了解您正在采访的人。

So you actually just had Paul Graham on the podcast.

所以实际上你刚刚在播客上看到了保罗·格雷厄姆。

He does very few podcast episodes.

他制作的播客节目很少。

So that's an unfair advantage you have there.

所以这是你拥有的不公平优势。

Patrick and John Collison, Brian Chesky, you mentioned Brian Armstrong, Emmett Shear, Tony Xu, like epic people.

帕特里克和约翰·克里森，布莱恩·切斯基，你提到了布莱恩·阿姆斯特朗，埃米特·希尔，托尼·徐，像史诗般的人物。

Jessica Livingston: Emmett Shear, by the way, the week after he was named OpenAI CEO for like 72 hours, that one launched.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：顺便说一句，埃米特·希尔 (Emmett Shear) 就在他被任命为 OpenAI 首席执行官约 72 小时后的一周，就推出了这个产品。

I was like, I could not have planned that timing better.

我当时想，我不可能更好地计划这个时间了。

Lenny Rachitsky: Is there an episode you'd recommend people start with if they were start to explore your podcast and get into it?

Lenny Rachitsky：如果人们开始探索并参与你的播客，你会推荐他们从一集开始吗？

Jessica Livingston: Honestly, I truly believe this, I'm not BS-ing you, I think they're all really, really good, and there's so many interesting takeaways from every single one.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：说实话，我真的相信这一点，我不是在胡说八道，我认为它们都非常非常好，而且每一个都有很多有趣的收获。

If I were coming to it for the first time, I'd probably choose, I'd look at the guests and say, "Who am I interested in?

如果我是第一次来，我可能会选择，我会看着客人说，“我对谁感兴趣？

Have I stayed at an Airbnb and I want to learn more about that?" Or, "Do I use Reddit?" Just see who the guests are and start with someone you're kind of interested in, and I guarantee you'll learn more about this person.

我住过 Airbnb 吗？我想了解更多相关信息吗？”或者，“我使用 Reddit 吗？”只要看看客人是谁，然后从你感兴趣的人开始，我保证你会更多地了解这个人。

Lenny Rachitsky: So across the podcast episodes you've done, I hate when people ask me this question, but I'm going to ask you this question.

Lenny Rachitsky：所以在你制作的播客节目中，我讨厌人们问我这个问题，但我会问你这个问题。

Is there any big lessons you've learned, any stories that have stuck with you?

有没有什么重要的教训让你印象深刻？

Any takeaways so far from interviewing all these incredibly successful founders and people?

到目前为止，采访所有这些非常成功的创始人和人士有什么收获吗？

Jessica Livingston: My God, I love that question.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：天哪，我喜欢这个问题。

I don't hate that question.

我不讨厌这个问题。

Jessica Livingston: I could talk for an hour just on...

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我可以讲一个小时......

I want to learn from you as an expert podcaster, because I'm still a noob here.

我想向您学习成为一名专业播客，因为我在这里仍然是菜鸟。

What I've learned the hard way, and you probably will nod your head when I say this, is that I talk way too much.

我从惨痛的教训中学到的一点是，当我这么说时，你可能会点头，那就是我说得太多了。

I'm a huge windbag and I hate...

我是个爱说大话的人，我讨厌...

I don't notice it now when I'm just talking to you and going off and talking, talking, talking.

现在，当我只是和你说话，然后走开，说话，说话，说话时，我没有注意到这一点。

But when I'm editing the podcast and I'm listening to myself ask a question in 20 sentences when I could ask it in two.

但当我编辑播客时，我听自己用 20 句话问一个问题，而我可以用两句话问。

So I've really had to train myself to keep things short.

所以我真的必须训练自己让事情变得简短。

You want regular short dialogue, you know this, but you also have to interrupt guests if they're going off too much.

你想要定期进行简短的对话，你知道这一点，但如果客人太过分，你也必须打断他们。

So the talking of the hosts should be frequent but short.

所以主持人的谈话应该频繁但简短。

That's the lesson that I've learned.

这就是我学到的教训。

Jessica Livingston: In terms of content, every single episode is a gem in its own right, and there aren't massive lessons because they're all sort of specific to that person, and I never know exactly which direction we're going to go in when we get into things.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：就内容而言，每一集本身都是瑰宝，并且没有大量的课程，因为它们都是特定于那个人的，而且我永远不知道当我们进入事物时我们将进入哪个方向。

But it was interesting.

但这很有趣。

There were definitely some themes with Adora Cheung and Tony Xu of DoorDash where they said they really made a mistake early on scaling into different cities before they had nailed the original city.

DoorDash 的 Adora Cheung 和 Tony Xu 确实有一些主题，他们说，在确定原来的城市之前，他们在早期扩展到不同的城市确实犯了一个错误。

And that's an important lesson.

这是一个重要的教训。

There's lessons for everyone, I think.

我认为每个人都有教训。

In addition to really getting to know these founders, their personal side of their personality, there's some great lessons that they all tell.

除了真正了解这些创始人及其个性的一面之外，他们还提供了一些很棒的经验教训。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love these lessons.

Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢这些课程。

Is there anything else you've learned about interviewing?

关于面试你还学到了什么吗？

That's something I'm always trying to get better at.

这是我一直努力做得更好的事情。

I love this point you made.

我喜欢你提出的这一点。

I say the same thing to every podcaster.

我对每个播客都说同样的话。

You talk too much as a host, you should let the guest talk.

作为主人你说得太多了，应该让客人说。

Just ask the question and let them talk.

只需提出问题并让他们说话即可。

Is there anything else that you've learned about just how to interview more effectively?

关于如何更有效地进行面试，您还学到了什么吗？

Jessica Livingston: Remember, I've been interviewing people since YC started because I was working on Founders at Work simultaneously when we started YC, and so that was a collection of interviews.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：记住，自从 YC 成立以来，我一直在采访人们，因为当我们成立 YC 时，我同时在工作中的创始人工作，所以这是一个采访集。

And back then, I can't say I was that good at it.

那时，我还不能说我有那么擅长。

I've gotten much better.

我已经好多了。

And then I've since gone, I used to do a lot of interviews at startup school on stage with people, and now the podcast.

然后我就离开了，我曾经在创业学校的舞台上与人们进行过很多采访，现在是播客。

I think one thing that is that the guests trust me.

我认为一件事是客人信任我。

They trust that I'm not going to try to have a gotcha moment.

他们相信我不会试图陷入困境。

I'm not trying to lure them into saying anything controversial.

我并不是想引诱他们说出任何有争议的话。

Do I love it when they say something that hasn't been said before?

我喜欢他们说一些以前没说过的话吗？

Yes.

是的。

But I'm not trying to trick them.

但我并不是想欺骗他们。

Jessica Livingston: And just like you, I tell them, "You will have a chance to review this before it goes public." And I think that disarms people and they say, "Okay, I can open up because I know if I regret saying something, it's not like talking to a reporter who's going to publish it." I care about them.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：就像你们一样，我告诉他们，“你们将有机会在公开之前对其进行审查。”我认为这会解除人们的武装，他们会说：“好吧，我可以敞开心扉，因为我知道如果我后悔说了某些话，这不像是在和一位即将发表的记者交谈。”我关心他们。

I care about making them look good, and I'd never want to betray their trust, and they know that.

我关心的是让他们看起来很好，我永远不想辜负他们的信任，他们知道这一点。

So that's part of it too.

这也是其中的一部分。

For me, with the podcast, I have some questions that I do ahead of time just so I have something down, but I also just let the conversation go where it's going, and we get into some random tangents that I find are really fascinating.

对我来说，在播客中，我会提前提出一些问题，这样我就能记下一些东西，但我也只是让对话继续进行下去，我们会进入一些随机的切线，我发现这些切线真的很有趣。

Lenny Rachitsky: Is there a story that stand out to you just that sticks with you from the interviews that just like, "Wow, that was such an incredible story someone shared with me," or, "a lesson learnt."?

Lenny Rachitsky：采访中是否有一个故事让你印象深刻，让你印象深刻，就像“哇，有人与我分享了一个如此令人难以置信的故事”，或者“一个教训”？

Jessica Livingston: The podcast that really sticks with me is the Parker Conrad episode, of Rippling, but we spent a lot of time on Zenefits because if you didn't follow that story years ago, the press annihilated him.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：真正让我印象深刻的播客是帕克·康拉德的《涟漪》一集，但我们在《Zenefits》上花了很多时间，因为如果你几年前不关注这个故事，媒体就会消灭他。

And in talking to him, I learned why.

在与他交谈时，我了解到了原因。

There was a smear campaign paid for by someone still at Zenefits.

Zenefits 的某个人出资发起了一场诽谤活动。

There were legal threats made to force him to sign this legal document that would allow them to have a non-compete in California so that he couldn't another company, basically making his life miserable, disparaging him.

有人提出法律威胁，迫使他签署这份法律文件，该文件将允许他们在加利福尼亚州进行竞业禁止，这样他就不能再与另一家公司合作，这基本上让他的生活变得悲惨，贬低了他。

Stories planted in the press.

媒体上植入的故事。

And I had him come on and I had him tell what really happened.

我让他上场，让他讲述到底发生了什么。

Jessica Livingston: And even I, who have seen so much shit behind the scenes with startups in Silicon Valley over the years, stuff you just couldn't believe.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：即使是我，多年来在硅谷初创公司的幕后看到了很多令人难以置信的事情。

This was unbelievable.

这太令人难以置信了。

And the thing that really sticks with me is that no reporter ever, maybe no reporters listened to it, but no one said, "Hey, I got that wrong years ago.

真正让我印象深刻的是，从来没有记者，也许没有记者听过它，但没有人说，“嘿，我几年前就错了。

I shouldn't have written that.

我不应该写那个。

That wasn't true.

那不是真的。

Let me set the record straight." So he doesn't care.

让我澄清一下。”所以他不在乎。

Parker's moved on, he's successful with Rippling, he doesn't think about this stuff.

帕克已经继续前进，他在 Rippling 方面取得了成功，他不再考虑这些事情。

But I do.

但我愿意。

I care about justice.

我关心正义。

And it was a horrible thing that was done to him and it affected his health, it affected his life, and I just am glad to have sort of been a conduit to set the record straight.

这对他来说是一件可怕的事情，它影响了他的健康，影响了他的生活，我很高兴能成为澄清事实的渠道。

Lenny Rachitsky: That's an awesome episode maybe for people to start with if they want to check out the podcast.

Lenny Rachitsky：如果人们想要查看播客，这可能是一个很棒的剧集。

And then generally, I just love this rise of ways for tech people to share their story without this drive to create clicks and create gotcha moments and things like that.

总的来说，我只是喜欢科技人员分享故事的方式的兴起，而无需创造点击和创造陷阱时刻之类的动力。

Just this, I think people call it techno optimism, this idea of just like tech is great, technology is doing great things for us, let's just tell these stories in a really positive way versus look at all the harm they're causing, technology stop, slow it down.

就这一点，我认为人们称之为技术乐观主义，这种想法就像技术是伟大的，技术正在为我们做伟大的事情，让我们以一种非常积极的方式讲述这些故事，而不是看看它们造成的所有伤害，技术停止，放慢速度。

Jessica Livingston: And I just want to have conversations that I personally find interesting.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我只想进行我个人觉得有趣的对话。

I'm very selfish about it, Lenny.

我对此很自私，莱尼。

As long as I have an interesting conversation, I tell Carolyn this all the time, as long as we have 20 listeners, that's all I need.

只要我的谈话很有趣，我就会一直告诉卡罗琳，只要我们有 20 个听众，这就是我所需要的。

20 really interested listeners, we'll keep doing it.

20 位真正感兴趣的听众，我们会继续这样做。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love that attitude.

Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢这种态度。

I wish I had that same feeling.

我希望我也有同样的感觉。

What I look for is, is it growing?

我寻找的是，它在增长吗？

That's the thing.

就是这样。

I'm like, is it growing at least?

我想，至少它在增长吗？

If it's growing, no matter what it is, I'm feeling good.

如果它在增长，无论它是什么，我都感觉很好。

Jessica Livingston: I need to be a little bit more like that.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我需要变得更像那样。

I don't know any of my statistics.

我不知道我的任何统计数据。

What statistic, you tell me as an experience podcaster, what statistics should I have taped up to my mirror every day and track?

你告诉我，作为一名经验丰富的播客，我应该每天将哪些统计数据贴在镜子上并进行跟踪？

Lenny Rachitsky: There's the correct one and there's a simple one that I look at, which is just downloads of the episode.

Lenny Rachitsky：有一个是正确的，有一个是我看的简单的，它只是该集的下载。

It's the most basic one you see everywhere.

这是随处可见的最基本的一种。

And downloads is a weird one because they might download and not listen to it, but that's just the one that podcast platforms tell you how many people have downloaded it.

下载是一个奇怪的问题，因为他们可能会下载但不听，但这只是播客平台告诉你有多少人下载了它的一个。

And that's the one that just tells you generally, are people listening?

这只是一般性地告诉你，人们在听吗？

Are people continuing to listen?

人们还在继续倾听吗？

Did they remove it from their phone?

他们是否将其从手机中删除了？

In theory, you should be looking at retention like how many people are finishing the podcast episode?

理论上，你应该关注留存率，比如有多少人看完了播客剧集？

Jessica Livingston: Can you tell that though?

杰西卡·利文斯顿：你能说出来吗？

I thought these platforms don't share that with you.

我以为这些平台不会与你分享这一点。

Lenny Rachitsky: Some do, some do.

Lenny Rachitsky：有些人这样做，有些人这样做。

Spotify gives you some of that.

Spotify 为您提供了其中一些。

Apple, gives you.

苹果，给你。

The worst part about podcasting is the analytics are extremely bad and inconsistent, but there are some of those stats.

播客最糟糕的部分是分析非常糟糕且不一致，但其中有一些统计数据。

The other one, okay, here's one to pay attention to, is number of subscribers on the different platforms, people that follow you.

另一个，好吧，这里有一个需要注意的，是不同平台上的订阅者数量，即关注你的人。

That actually is a really important metric to watch.

这实际上是一个非常值得关注的重要指标。

Jessica Livingston: Number of subscribers, okay.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：订阅者数量，好的。

One thing I also, this is just my personality, I can't bring myself to do what I want to, is ask people if you like The Social Radars, please subscribe and leave a rating and a review.

我还有一件事，这只是我的个性，我无法让自己做我想做的事，就是问人们是否喜欢社交雷达，请订阅并留下评分和评论。

I would do anything to have people leave rating and reviews.

我会尽一切努力让人们留下评分和评论。

Lenny Rachitsky: If you're listening and you either checking out the podcast or you're already a listener, please leave a rating and a review and subscribe and follow.

Lenny Rachitsky：如果您正在收听并且查看了播客或者您已经是听众，请留下评分和评论并订阅和关注。

Jessica Livingston: Thank you.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：谢谢。

Can I ask you a question about podcasting really quickly?

我可以快速问你一个关于播客的问题吗？

Jessica Livingston: When you do a podcast, after you hang up with a person, can you tell, do you have a gut instinct like, "Oh, that was a really great "?

杰西卡·利文斯顿：当你做播客时，在挂断某人的电话后，你能看出，你是否有一种直觉，比如“哦，那真是太棒了”？

Lenny Rachitsky: What's interesting is, the ones that I sometimes think, holy moly, that was incredible, don't do as well as I would think.

Lenny Rachitsky：有趣的是，我有时认为，天哪，那是令人难以置信的，但并没有我想象的那么好。

And sometimes ones I think didn't go amazing, actually do a lot better than I think.

有时，我认为并不令人惊奇的事情，实际上比我想象的要好得多。

And I think there's a difference between the energy and the fun of it versus the content and the interesting value of the actual conversation.

我认为它的能量和乐趣与实际对话的内容和有趣价值之间存在差异。

And so sometimes you feel like that was so fun, so good, I loved it, but people are like, "Nah, I didn't learn anything." So those are interesting.

所以有时你会觉得这很有趣，很好，我喜欢它，但人们会说，“不，我什么也没学到。”所以这些很有趣。

That's something I've learned.

这是我学到的东西。

Jessica Livingston: Okay.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：好的。

Yeah, because people come to yours expecting to learn things.

是的，因为人们来到你这里是希望能学到东西。

Now I'm a little nervous, I'm going to get axed because I'm not teaching them anything valuable.

现在我有点紧张，我会被解雇，因为我没有教给他们任何有价值的东西。

Lenny Rachitsky: You're so modest.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：你太谦虚了。

This was incredible.

这太不可思议了。

I think we've taught people a lot of really important and really actionable things and I know you don't think you did, but you did.

我认为我们已经教给人们很多非常重要和真正可行的事情，我知道你不认为你做到了，但你做到了。

And with that, we've covered a ton of ground.

至此，我们已经了解了很多内容。

We've talked through every single thing that I was hoping we talked through.

我们已经讨论了我希望我们讨论的每一件事。

Is there anything else you wanted to share or maybe leave listeners with before we get to our very exciting lightning round?

在我们开始激动人心的闪电回合之前，您还有什么想分享或留给听众的吗？

Jessica Livingston: No, I mean, honestly I can't think of...

杰西卡·利文斯顿：不，我的意思是，老实说我想不出......

I think I windbagged enough.

我想我已经够啰嗦了。

Lenny Rachitsky: This was incredible.

Lenny Rachitsky：这太不可思议了。

You talked exactly the right amount of time.

你说的时间恰到好处。

With that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round.

至此，我们进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。

I've got six questions for you.

我有六个问题要问你。

Are you ready?

你准备好了吗？

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。

First question, what are two or three books that you recommended most to other people?

第一个问题，您向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？

Jessica Livingston: Well, I definitely would recommend my first, second and third books would all be P.G.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：嗯，我肯定会推荐我的第一本书、第二本书和第三本书都是 P.G.

Wodehouse books.

伍德豪斯书籍。

Do you know him as an author?

你知道他是一位作家吗？

Jessica Livingston: Ask Jeeves.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：问问吉夫斯。

Okay, so he was an old school author and he wrote the Ask Jeeves books about the Butler and Bertie Wooster.

好吧，所以他是一位老派作家，他写了关于巴特勒和伯蒂·伍斯特的询问吉​​夫斯书籍。

Jessica Livingston: They're so funny and fabulously written.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：它们非常有趣，而且写得非常精彩。

His use of words makes me laugh so hard.

他的用词让我笑得很厉害。

And so I would specifically recommend the starter books that...

所以我特别推荐入门书籍......

He wrote tons of books and he lived till he was like a hundred.

他写了很多书，活到了一百多岁。

Start with Very Good, Jeeves or Right ho, Jeeves, Carry On, Jeeves.

从“非常好”、“Jeeves”或“Right ho、Jeeves”、“Carry On、Jeeves”开始。

Those three are really good books.

这三本确实是好书。

And then I tend to read, so Paul's the big reader in the family, he reads riveting books on Roman grains and anything that has to do with medieval history.

然后我喜欢读书，所以保罗是家里的大读者，他读有关罗马谷物的引人入胜的书籍以及任何与中世纪历史有关的书籍。

I tend to read biographies of people, especially musicians, especially English musicians, strangely.

奇怪的是，我倾向于阅读人们的传记，尤其是音乐家，尤其是英国音乐家。

And so I've recommended, to a lot of people, if you really want a good autobiography, because I sometimes hate autobiographies because I feel like people hold back and don't really share everything.

所以我向很多人推荐，如果你真的想要一本好的自传，因为我有时讨厌自传，因为我觉得人们会犹豫不决，不会真正分享一切。

Keith Richards, his autobiography called Life, is really good if you're a fan of the Rolling Stones at all.

基思·理查兹（Keith Richards）的自传《生活》（Life）如果你是滚石乐队的粉丝的话，这本书真的很不错。

That was really good.

那真是太好了。

Jessica Livingston: And then I recently read Barbra Streisand's biography called, I think it's called, My Name is Barbra something, and I kept thinking as I was reading this, every female founder should read this book.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：然后我最近读了芭芭拉·史翠珊的传记，我想它叫《我的名字是芭芭拉》之类的，当我读这本书时，我一直在想，每个女性创始人都应该读这本书。

And you're looking at me like that's so random, but it's because she was such a success within this totally male-dominated world of Hollywood and just treated like garbage and dismissed and called a diva when she was very particular about something.

你看我的方式很随意，但那是因为她在这个完全由男性主导的好莱坞世界中取得了如此成功，但当她对某件事非常挑剔时，却被当作垃圾对待，被解雇并被称为女主角。

Whereas, a man would be called a great director and she was called a diva, and I felt like every woman should just read this to inspire them.

然而，男人会被称为伟大的导演，而她会被称为女主角，我觉得每个女人都应该读这本书来激励她们。

It was such a great book.

这是一本很棒的书。

Long, but very good.

很长，但是非常好。

Lenny Rachitsky: Incredible recommendations.

Lenny Rachitsky：令人难以置信的建议。

Next question, do you have a favorite recent movie or TV show?

下一个问题，您最近有最喜欢的电影或电视节目吗？

Jessica Livingston: I don't tend to watch recent movies.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我不喜欢看最近的电影。

I watch old school movies from the 50s through the 90s and stuff.

我看 50 年代到 90 年代的老派电影等等。

My favorite new TV show, just off the top of my head right now, is Clarkson's Farm.

我最喜欢的新电视节目是克拉克森的农场，现在就在我的脑海里。

Have you heard of that, on Amazon?

你听说过亚马逊吗？

Jessica Livingston: Jeremy Clarkson, he's in the show called Top Gear.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：杰里米·克拉克森，他在《Top Gear》节目中。

I don't watch that.

我不看那个。

But he lives out in the English countryside.

但他住在英国乡村。

He has a farm, and he decided that he'd farm it.

他有一个农场，他决定耕种它。

And the whole show is about him getting into this business that he knows nothing about, everything goes wrong, but it is hysterical and heartbreaking at the same time.

整部剧都是关于他进入这个他一无所知的行业，一切都出了问题，但同时又歇斯底里又令人心碎。

I've learned so much about England and about where I live and the crops that are grown, and how hard it is for farmers.

我对英国有了很多了解，了解了我居住的地方、种植的农作物以及农民的艰难处境。

He's really shone a light on the difficulty of being a farmer these days and it's fabulous.

他确实让人们了解了当今农民的困难，这真是太棒了。

Clarkson's Farm.

克拉克森农场。

And it has some bad language in it, but I do recommend that kids watch it, because it's just a good show to watch as a family if you can deal with a little foul language.

它有一些粗俗的语言，但我确实建议孩子们观看它，因为如果你能处理一些粗俗的语言，这只是一个适合家庭观看的好节目。

The Brits drop a lot of F-bombs.

英国人扔了很多脏话。

Lenny Rachitsky: Do you have a favorite life motto that you often come back to, share with people, find useful in work or in life?

Lenny Rachitsky：您有没有最喜欢的人生格言，您经常回顾并与人分享，并发现它在工作或生活中有用？

Jessica Livingston: It's so boring, but I always try to treat people the way I'd like to be treated myself, really, is fundamental life lesson.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：这太无聊了，但我总是尝试以我希望别人对待自己的方式对待别人，真的，这是基本的人生课程。

Lenny Rachitsky: It's like boring but so powerful and important.

Lenny Rachitsky：这很无聊，但非常强大和重要。

And I try to live that same way.

我也尝试以同样的方式生活。

And I think it's a good reminder to people, sometimes the most, I think it was Michael Pollan had said that, "Cliches are cliches because they're so true." They're so true, we're tired of hearing it.

我认为这对人们来说是一个很好的提醒，有时最重要的是，我认为迈克尔·波伦曾说过，“陈词滥调就是陈词滥调，因为它们是如此真实。”它们是如此真实，我们已经听腻了。

Sometimes it's important to be reminded of them.

有时提醒他们很重要。

Who's most influenced you in your career?

在你的职业生涯中，谁对你影响最大？

Who do you think of when you're like, this person's really had the most influence on me?

当你觉得这个人对我影响最大时，你会想到谁？

Jessica Livingston: In my career, I definitely have to say my husband, Paul Graham.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：在我的职业生涯中，我绝对不得不说我的丈夫保罗·格雷厄姆。

I've just learned so much from him over the years, and he's such a good person and I think people who know him, all know that he is.

这些年来我从他身上学到了很多东西，他是一个很好的人，我想了解他的人都知道他是。

It's just, he has such a big online personality either through Twitter or through his essays.

只是，无论是通过推特还是通过他的文章，他在网络上都有如此大的个性。

And so he has a lot of people that don't like him, because he also speaks what he believes.

所以他有很多人不喜欢他，因为他也说他所相信的事情。

And he is not afraid to say anything if he believes it's true and needs to be said.

如果他相信这是真的并且需要说的话，他不会害怕说任何话。

Whereas, I'm the exact opposite.

而我却恰恰相反。

I'm like, "Oh, I'm not going near that.

我想，“哦，我不会接近那个。

I'm not touching that with a ten-foot pole.

我不会用十英尺长的杆子碰它。

I don't even want to get in someone's crosshairs or fight with someone." And I admire that so much.

我什至不想成为别人的瞄准目标或与别人打架。”我非常钦佩这一点。

There's so much that he's done with Y Combinator and just in our personal life that is just so admirable and I've really learned a lot from him.

他在 Y Combinator 上做了很多事情，在我们的个人生活中也做了很多事情，这真是令人钦佩，我从他身上学到了很多东西。

Jessica Livingston: It's such a boring thing to learn from your husband, but at the same time, I'm going to extend this, I'm going to windbag a little bit longer.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：向你丈夫学习是一件很无聊的事情，但与此同时，我要延长这一点，我要多说一会儿。

I have learned so much from the founders that we funded.

我从我们资助的创始人那里学到了很多东西。

Some of them are just incredible people and have been through so much and survived so much and built these amazing companies that I couldn't have even imagined when we funded them, that these companies would be as successful as they are, and they're all, so many of them, are just great people.

他们中的一些人是令人难以置信的人，经历了这么多，幸存下来，建立了这些令人惊叹的公司，当我们资助他们时，我什至无法想象这些公司会像他们一样成功，而且他们中的很多人都是伟大的人。

And they now teach me things, honestly.

老实说，他们现在教我一些东西。

Like Brian Chesky teaches me things.

就像布莱恩·切斯基教我一些东西一样。

The student has become the master.

学生变成了大师。

He knows so much more about me and running a business, and I often will go to him for advice.

他对我和经营企业了解得多，我经常向他寻求建议。

And so I'm really lucky to be surrounded by so many smart people in the startup world, because as a startup nerd, I could talk about startups and think about them all the time, and it's so great to have all these people around sort of lifting me up.

所以我真的很幸运能够在创业界被这么多聪明的人包围，因为作为一个创业迷，我可以一直谈论创业公司并思考它们，有这么多人在身边让我振奋，真是太棒了。

Lenny Rachitsky: Would you believe that a cereal experience led to a 92 billion business today?

Lenny Rachitsky：您是否相信谷物食品的经历带来了今天 920 亿美元的业务？

I just looked it up, how big they've gotten.

我刚刚查了一下，它们都长多大了。

Jessica Livingston: Honestly, I wouldn't.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：说实话，我不会。

I wish I could say, "Oh, I knew they'd be this big." But the truth is, with all of the super successful startups, yeah you can remember feeling very positively about them and certainly feeling like, as they went along in the first few years, like they're doing really well, they're really determined, they're doing a great job, but you just never really think.

我希望我能说：“哦，我就知道它们会这么大。”但事实是，对于所有超级成功的初创公司，是的，你可以记得对他们的感觉非常积极，当然感觉就像他们在最初几年的发展一样，他们做得很好，他们真的很坚定，他们做得很好，但你只是从未真正思考过。

They themselves, probably didn't realize that they'd ever be that big.

他们自己可能没有意识到自己会变得这么大。

Let's face it.

让我们面对现实吧。

That's just the way startups are.

这就是初创公司的样子。

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。

Here's the actual final question.

这是实际的最后一个问题。

Is there a fun story of early days YC, whether it's with Airbnb founders or Paul or anything that comes to mind as just like, wow, what a different time that was, or what a surprising thing that happened then?

YC 早期是否有一个有趣的故事，无论是与 Airbnb 创始人还是保罗有关，还是其他让我想起的故事，比如，哇，那是一个多么不同的时代，或者当时发生了多么令人惊讶的事情？

Jessica Livingston: It's funny you ask, because actually one of my ideas I've had lately is that I want to start thinking about writing sort of a YC biography kind of book.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：你问这个问题很有趣，因为实际上我最近的想法之一是我想开始考虑写一本 YC 传记类的书。

I don't know when the time is, but the point is, I have to remember things because it's hard.

我不知道时间是什么时候，但重点是，我必须记住事情，因为这很难。

When it's been 20 years to go way back, you have to remember specific things that happened.

当时间回溯到20年前，你必须记住发生过的具体事情。

YC, I just remember the early days being so magical and so pure.

YC，我只记得早期是那么神奇、那么纯粹。

When we started, no one knew about us, no one was bothering us.

当我们开始的时候，没有人知道我们，没有人打扰我们。

We just did what we were doing with no distractions.

我们只是做我们正在做的事情，心无旁骛。

We were helping, albeit a very small group of founders, eight in that first summer, we were just doing what we loved doing and growing organically.

我们正在帮助，尽管只有一小群创始人，第一个夏天只有八个人，但我们只是在做我们喜欢做的事情，并有机地成长。

And no one was scrutinizing us or blaming us for things or writing negative news stories about us.

没有人审视我们或指责我们的事情或撰写有关我们的负面新闻报道。

The negative stories in the press, because I'm a people-person and I'm very sensitive, Paul's not as sensitive as me, and so he doesn't care if there's a negative story in the press that's not true.

媒体上的负面报道，因为我是一个以人为本的人，而且我非常敏感，保罗不像我那么敏感，所以他不在乎媒体上是否有不真实的负面报道。

Jessica Livingston: I do.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我愿意。

It really affected me, and I hated when we got big enough that people would lie about us and say bad things.

这确实影响了我，我讨厌当我们变得足够大时，人们会对我们撒谎并说我们的坏话。

So I look back fondly when we first started of it was the most fun time of my life, the most productive time of my life, didn't have kids then, and I could just help the founders and learn about all these exciting things that happened in the startup world, because it was new to me then, the startup world was new when we started Y Combinator, so I had a lot of learning to do.

所以我深情地回忆起我们刚开始创业的时候，那是我一生中最有趣的时光，也是我一生中最富有成效的时光，​​那时还没有孩子，我可以帮助创始人并了解创业世界中发生的所有这些令人兴奋的事情，因为当时对我来说这是新的，当我们创办 Y Combinator 时，创业世界是新的，所以我有很多学习要做。

And I met all these cool people, and it was just very authentic, no one was doing it to be cool.

我遇到了所有这些很酷的人，这非常真实，没有人这样做是为了炫酷。

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。

Well, let me ask maybe one other question.

好吧，让我问另一个问题。

Was there a moment when you felt like YC was working?

有没有某个时刻你觉得 YC 正在工作？

When it felt like, wow, maybe this is going to make it?

当感觉，哇，也许这会成功？

Jessica Livingston: There were sort of two moments that I remember I felt like YC was working, because remember, we started Y Combinator as 100% like an experiment.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我记得有两个时刻我感觉 YC 正在发挥作用，因为记住，我们开始 Y Combinator 时 100% 就像一个实验。

Could we fund younger founders with small amounts of money?

我们可以用少量资金资助年轻的创始人吗？

That was it.

就是这样。

Then that summer we created this batch investment idea, and then that became the idea of funding them in batches.

然后那个夏天我们创造了这个批量投资的想法，然后就变成了批量资助他们的想法。

And that was the first aha moment was after that first summer when we invited people to participate in the Summer Founders Program, which is what it was called.

那是第一个夏天之后的第一个顿悟时刻，当时我们邀请人们参加夏季创始人计划，这就是所谓的。

And remember, that first summer had Sam Altman, Emmett Shear, Justin Kan, Alexis and Steve of Reddit, they were in the first batch.

请记住，第一个夏天有 Reddit 的 Sam Altman、Emmett Shear、Justin Kan、Alexis 和 Steve，他们是第一批。

And the batch thing worked really well because they all became friends.

批处理的事情非常有效，因为他们都成了朋友。

We could have dinner every week, and bring in guest speakers and then introduce them to investors at demo day, and that whole batch-investing thing was an aha moment and we said, "Oh my gosh, let's keep doing this.

我们可以每周吃晚饭，邀请演讲嘉宾，然后在演示日将他们介绍给投资者，整个批量投资的事情真是一个顿悟时刻，我们说，“哦，天哪，让我们继续这样做吧。

This really works." And so that was a moment where we knew we were onto something, and that's when we then did it in California in the winter.

这确实有效。”所以那一刻我们知道我们正在做某件事，然后我们就在冬天在加利福尼亚州做了这件事。

Jessica Livingston: But the second big moment was probably, I remember it was like a year later, and no reporter would write about us, investors really didn't think that much of us, but I remember when Reddit got bought by Condé Nast in 2006.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：但第二个重要时刻可能是，我记得大概是一年后，没有记者会写我们的事，投资者真的没有那么看重我们，但我记得 2006 年 Reddit 被康泰纳仕收购时。

It was that, and then at the same time, I think it was like Charles River Ventures or one of these Boston, maybe it wasn't even Boston, but it was a VC firm, did the seed program where they invested maybe a 100K in startups, and the press loved that.

就是这样，然后同时，我认为它就像 Charles River Ventures 或波士顿之一，也许它甚至不是波士顿，但它是一家风险投资公司，进行了种子计划，他们向初创公司投资了 10 万美元，媒体喜欢这一点。

They wrote all about this $100,000 investment, and they'd sort of mentioned Y Combinator as doing small investments.

他们写了关于这笔 100,000 美元投资的所有文章，他们有点提到 Y Combinator 正在进行小额投资。

And then that, coupled with the Reddit press, sort of made us feel like, oh my gosh, we are sort of legitimate, and the eyes of outsiders became sort of aware of who we were.

然后，再加上 Reddit 媒体，让我们感觉，天哪，我们是合法的，而且局外人的眼睛开始意识到我们是谁。

And I sort of felt like we've arrived, we've been in the press, people are finally paying attention.

我感觉我们已经到了，我们已经出现在媒体上，人们终于开始关注了。

Lenny Rachitsky: That's amazing.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

And it's funny that Reddit just went public, it's kind of the other side of that coin.

有趣的是，Reddit 刚刚上市，这有点像硬币的另一面。

Jessica Livingston: I know.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：我知道。

Pretty impressive.

相当令人印象深刻。

Definitely didn't necessarily think that was going to be happening.

绝对不一定认为会发生这种情况。

Lenny Rachitsky: I know you have to run, but I can't help but ask around what you just talked about where you decided to invest in batches.

Lenny Rachitsky：我知道你必须跑，但我忍不住要问一下你刚才谈到的你决定在哪里进行批量投资。

You wrote this really interesting point that none of us had any experience angel investing, and that's where the idea of funding startups and batches came from.

你写了这个非常有趣的观点，我们没有人有任何天使投资的经验，这就是为初创公司和批次提供资金的想法的来源。

We decided to fund a bunch of startups at once during the summer so that we could learn how to invest.

我们决定在夏天一次性资助一批初创公司，这样我们就可以学习如何投资。

And I love that your inexperience in doing it, created this structure.

我喜欢你在这方面的缺乏经验，创造了这个结构。

That unique weakness/strength is what led to the way YC operates, and I think that's really interesting.

这种独特的弱点/优势导致了 YC 的运作方式，我认为这真的很有趣。

Jessica Livingston: Yeah, we definitely wanted to learn more about how to be investors, so that's when we decided to do this summer founders program where we could invest in a whole bunch at once, and then the plan was to go to asynchronous investing like normal investors, but we realized that there was something magical about this batch thing.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：是的，我们确实想更多地了解如何成为投资者，所以就在那时我们决定参加今年夏天的创始人计划，我们可以一次投资一大堆，然后计划是像普通投资者一样进行异步投资，但我们意识到这批事情有一些神奇之处。

So sometimes, I always say we love domain experts, but sometimes maybe ignorance is sort of bliss and you just discover new things.

所以有时，我总是说我们喜欢领域专家，但有时也许无知也是一种幸福，你就会发现新事物。

Lenny Rachitsky: Jessica, this was everything I hoped it would be.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：杰西卡，这就是我所希望的一切。

We covered so much ground.

我们涵盖了很多领域。

I think people are going to love it no matter what you think.

我认为无论你怎么想，人们都会喜欢它。

Lenny Rachitsky: Two final questions.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：最后两个问题。

Where can folks check out The Social Radars and anything else you want people to know about?

人们可以在哪里查看社交雷达以及您希望人们了解的其他内容？

And how can listeners be useful to you?

听众如何对你有用？

Jessica Livingston: Well, you check out The Social Radars on all the podcast platforms; Apple, Spotify, Amazon, all of those.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：嗯，你可以在所有播客平台上查看《社交雷达》；苹果、Spotify、亚马逊，所有这些。

And then there's a website, socialradars.com.

还有一个网站，socialradars.com。

And they can be helpful by just listening to it and spreading the word because I don't do any marketing for it besides posting on Twitter, just because it's expensive doing a podcast and stuff.

他们只需聆听并传播信息即可提供帮助，因为除了在 Twitter 上发帖之外，我不会对其进行任何营销，只是因为制作播客之类的费用很高。

So I don't do any marketing.

所以我不做任何营销。

So if it resonates with you, if you find an episode interesting, please spread the word and write a review and rating.

因此，如果它引起您的共鸣，如果您发现某一集有趣，请传播信息并撰写评论和评分。

Lenny Rachitsky: I was just going to add that, I'm glad you threw that in there.

Lenny Rachitsky：我只是想补充一点，我很高兴你把它放在那里。

Jessica, thank you so much for being here.

杰西卡，非常感谢你来到这里。

Jessica Livingston: Thank you so much, Lenny.

杰西卡·利文斯顿：非常感谢你，莱尼。

It was a lot of fun.

这很有趣。

Lenny Rachitsky: Thank you so much for listening.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：非常感谢您的聆听。

If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。

Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.

另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。

You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.

您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。

See you in the next episode.

下一集见。