LinkedIn’s product evolution and the art of building complex systems | Hari Srinivasan (LinkedIn)
Hari Srinivasan: It was March 2020 and we were just watching COVID hit.
Hari Srinivasan：那是 2020 年 3 月，我们刚刚目睹了新冠疫情的爆发。
It was just this heartbreaking moment where in the feed you were seeing all these people, by no fault of their own, starting to post that they've lost their job.
正是在这个令人心碎的时刻，你在动态中看到所有这些人，并不是他们自己的过错，开始发布他们失业的消息。
We started seeing in our data is you had some areas like maybe hospitality was really getting hit, but some areas like customer service that just couldn't hire enough.
我们开始在数据中看到，有些领域（例如酒店业）确实受到了打击，但有些领域（例如客户服务）却无法招聘足够的员工。
You'd think the marketplace would balance pretty quickly.
您可能认为市场会很快达到平衡。
You'd think, okay, maybe these people will start moving to other jobs, but it wasn't happening.
你可能会想，好吧，也许这些人会开始跳槽到其他工作岗位，但这并没有发生。
Hari Srinivasan: A large reason behind this, people are used to looking for certain particular titles, and they didn't start realizing other people could do this job.
Hari Srinivasan：这背后的一个重要原因是，人们习惯于寻找某些特定的头衔，并且他们没有开始意识到其他人可以胜任这项工作。
We made a pretty big push in something we call skills-first hiring.
我们大力推动了所谓“技能优先”的招聘。
This was the idea that we could translate people's experiences into a set of skills, and by that we could help them really start balancing the marketplace with a much different system.
我们的想法是，我们可以将人们的经验转化为一套技能，这样我们就可以帮助他们真正开始用一个截然不同的系统来平衡市场。
I think that the job market is rebalancing, but it's being done, the pathways are being done in a very different way that seems to be maybe a change that holds through these ups and downs.
我认为就业市场正在重新平衡，但它正在完成，路径正在以一种非常不同的方式完成，这似乎可能是一种经历这些起起落落的变化。
That'll be very interesting to see.
这将会非常有趣。
Lenny: Welcome to Lenny's Podcast, where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts, to learn from their hard-won experiences building and growing today's most successful products.
Lenny：欢迎来到 Lenny 的播客，我在这里采访了世界一流的产品领导者和增长专家，学习他们来之不易的构建和发展当今最成功产品的经验。
Today, my guest is Hari Srinivasan.
今天，我的客人是哈里·斯里尼瓦桑。
This episode has a hilarious story.
这一集有一个搞笑的故事。
Lenny: On Twitter, an account called The Curious PM tagged me with a request to have someone from LinkedIn come on the podcast and talk about how they operate and what they've learned about building products that serve so many different types of customers.
Lenny：在 Twitter 上，一个名为“The Curious PM”的帐户向我添加了标签，要求 LinkedIn 的人员加入播客，谈论他们的运营方式以及他们在构建为多种不同类型的客户提供服务的产品方面所学到的知识。
I replied asking for any suggestions for who he thought I should specifically talk to, and he suggested Hari Srinivasan, by doing some research on LinkedIn.
我回复询问他认为我应该具体与谁交谈的任何建议，他通过在 LinkedIn 上做了一些研究建议了哈里·斯里尼瓦桑 (Hari Srinivasan)。
I reached out to Hari, told him about this tweet and he agreed.
我联系了哈里，告诉他这条推文，他同意了。
Here's the episode.
这是这一集。
Lenny: Hari's been at LinkedIn for eight-and-a-half years and he leads the Talent Solutions Product Team as VP of product, which is also LinkedIn's biggest business, and includes all of the hiring and learning products, which you'll hear about in this episode.
Lenny：Hari 在 LinkedIn 工作了八年半，他作为产品副总裁领导人才解决方案产品团队，这也是 LinkedIn 最大的业务，包括所有招聘和学习产品，您将在本集中听到。
In our chat, Hari shares what he's seeing change in the hiring market, what you can do to improve your odds of finding a job through LinkedIn, what he's learned about building and maintaining really complex systems like LinkedIn, tips for getting into product management, and some lessons from his own course on product management.
在我们的聊天中，Hari 分享了他所看到的招聘市场的变化、如何提高通过 LinkedIn 找到工作的几率、他在构建和维护 LinkedIn 等非常复杂的系统方面所学到的知识、进入产品管理的技巧以及他自己的产品管理课程中的一些经验教训。
Plus, we also talk about how LinkedIn has been able to become a real source of valuable content and a lot less cringe over the past couple years, which I've definitely noticed and I share in our chat.
另外，我们还讨论了 LinkedIn 如何成为有价值内容的真正来源，并且在过去几年中不再那么令人畏缩，我确实注意到了这一点，并在我们的聊天中分享了这一点。
Lenny: What a fun series of events that led to this episode.
莱尼：一系列有趣的事件导致了这一集。
Big thank you to Jatin, hopefully, I'm pronouncing your name correctly, the guy behind the Curious PM account, for making this all happen.
非常感谢 Jatin，希望我能正确发音你的名字，Curious PM 帐户背后的家伙，让这一切发生。
With that, I bring you Hari Srinivasan after a short word from our sponsors.
在我们的赞助商简短发言后，我为您带来了哈里·斯里尼瓦桑 (Hari Srinivasan)。
Lenny: Today's episode is brought to you by Miro, an online collaborative whiteboard that's designed specifically for teams like yours.
Lenny：今天的节目是由 Miro 为您带来的，Miro 是一款专为像您这样的团队设计的在线协作白板。
The best way to see what Miro is all about and how it can help your team collaborate better is not to listen to me talk about it, but to go check it out for yourself.
要了解 Miro 的全部内容以及它如何帮助您的团队更好地协作，最好的方法不是听我谈论它，而是亲自去检查一下。
Go to miro.com/lenny.
访问 miro.com/lenny。
With the help of the Miro team, I created a super cool Miro board with two of my own favorite templates, my one-pager template and my managing-up template, that you can plug and play and start using immediately with your team.
在 Miro 团队的帮助下，我创建了一个超级酷的 Miro 板，其中包含我自己最喜欢的两个模板，即我的单页模板和我的管理模板，您可以即插即用并立即开始与您的团队一起使用。
Lenny: I've also embedded a handful of my favorite templates that other people have published in the Miroverse.
Lenny：我还嵌入了一些我最喜欢的模板，这些模板是其他人在 Miroverse 中发布的。
When you get to the board, you can also leave suggestions for the podcast, answer a question that I have for you, and generally just play around to get a sense of how it all works.
当您到达看板时，您还可以为播客留下建议，回答我为您提出的问题，并且通常只是尝试一下以了解这一切是如何运作的。
Miro is a killer tool for brainstorming with your team, laying out your strategy, sharing user research findings, capturing ideas, giving feedback on wire frames, and generally just collaborating with your colleagues.
Miro 是一款杀手级工具，可用于与您的团队进行头脑风暴、制定策略、分享用户研究结果、捕获想法、提供有关线框的反馈以及通常与同事协作。
I actually used Miro to collaborate with the Miro team on creating my own board, and it was super fun and super easy.
实际上，我使用 Miro 与 Miro 团队合作创建了我自己的开发板，这非常有趣且非常简单。
Go check it out at miro.com/lenny.
请访问 miro.com/lenny 进行查看。
That's miro.com/lenny.
那是 miro.com/lenny。
Lenny: Today's episode is brought to you by Brave Search and their newest product, the Brave Search API, an independent global search index you can use to power your search or AI apps.
Lenny：今天的节目是由 Brave Search 及其最新产品 Brave Search API 为您带来的，Brave Search API 是一个独立的全局搜索索引，您可以使用它来为您的搜索或人工智能应用程序提供支持。
If your work involves AI, then you know how important new data is to train your LLMs and to power your AI applications.
如果您的工作涉及人工智能，那么您就会知道新数据对于培训您的法学硕士和为您的人工智能应用程序提供支持有多么重要。
You might be building an incredible AI product, but if you are using the same datasets as your competitors to train your models, you don't have much of an advantage.
您可能正在构建令人难以置信的人工智能产品，但如果您使用与竞争对手相同的数据集来训练模型，那么您就没有太大优势。
Lenny: Brave Search is the fastest-growing search engine since Bing, and it's 100% independent from the big tech companies.
Lenny：Brave Search 是自 Bing 以来增长最快的搜索引擎，并且 100% 独立于大型科技公司。
Its index features billions of pages of high-quality data from real humans, and it's constantly updated thanks to being the default search engine in the Brave Browser.
它的索引包含来自真实人类的数十亿页高质量数据，并且由于是 Brave 浏览器中的默认搜索引擎，它会不断更新。
If you're building products with search capabilities, you're probably experiencing soaring API costs or lack of viable global alternatives to Bing or Google.
如果您正在构建具有搜索功能的产品，您可能会遇到 API 成本飙升的情况，或者缺乏 Bing 或 Google 的可行的全球替代方案。
It's only going to become harder to afford these challenges.
应对这些挑战只会变得更加困难。
Lenny: The Brave Search API gives you access to its novel web-scale data with competitive features, intuitive structuring, and affordable costs.
Lenny：Brave Search API 使您能够访问其新颖的网络规模数据，这些数据具有竞争性的功能、直观的结构和实惠的成本。
AI devs will particularly benefit from data containing thorough coverage of recent events.
人工智能开发人员将特别受益于包含近期事件的全面报道的数据。
Lenny's Podcast listeners can get started testing the API for free at brave.com/lenny.
Lenny 的播客听众可以在 Brave.com/lenny 上开始免费测试 API。
That's brave.com/lenny.
那是brave.com/lenny。
Lenny: How are you?
莱尼：你好吗？
Welcome to the podcast.
欢迎来到播客。
Hari Srinivasan: Thanks for having me.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：谢谢你邀请我。
Been a big fan for a long time.
长期以来一直是它的忠实粉丝。
Lenny: I really appreciate that.
莱尼：我真的很感激。
What a fun story behind this conversation.
这次谈话背后有一个多么有趣的故事。
Let me just ask you, how did you feel when I cold-DMed on LinkedIn, asking you to be on this podcast because of a random tweet?
我只想问你，当我因为一条随机推文而在 LinkedIn 上冷言冷语邀请你加入这个播客时，你有何感受？
Hari Srinivasan: I felt very honored.
Hari Srinivasan：我感到非常荣幸。
Again, I really have followed your work for a while.
再说一次，我确实关注你的工作有一段时间了。
It's been really amazing to see what you've built, and I'm a huge fan of different builders.
看到你们所建造的东西真是太棒了，我是不同建造者的超级粉丝。
Also, it was a little bit of an honor that someone ...
另外，有人……是我的一点荣幸。
I know we're going to get into the story in a little bit.
我知道我们稍后会进入这个故事。
When you work on something, oftentimes jobs and learning, it's rare I think that it's in the influencer conversation.
当你从事某件事时，通常是工作和学习，我认为很少会出现在影响者的对话中。
It's not necessarily something you or other people are properly experiencing on day-to-day.
这不一定是您或其他人每天正确经历的事情。
Sometimes, I don't know if we get to tell some of these stories, and I really appreciate you reaching out for that.
有时，我不知道我们是否能讲述其中一些故事，我真的很感谢你伸出援手。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
I guess let me just give a big thank you to Jatin Rajvanshi, also known as The Curious PM, who tweeted about this concept and then is like, "Hey, talk to Hari about LinkedIn." Thank you, Jatin, for making this happen.
我想我要向 Jatin Rajvanshi 表示衷心的感谢，他也被称为“好奇的 PM”，他在 Twitter 上谈论了这个概念，然后说道：“嘿，和 Hari 谈谈 LinkedIn。”谢谢你，贾廷，让这一切发生。
It was all thanks to you.
这全都是你的功劳。
Usually, when this happens, someone tweets a recommendation of someone, they know each other.
通常，当这种情况发生时，有人会在推特上推荐某人，他们彼此认识。
I'm like, "Eh, I don't know.
我说：“呃，我不知道。
This is some promotion of some other person." But you guys don't know each other, right?
这是对其他人的某种宣传。”但你们并不认识，对吧？
Hari Srinivasan: We don't, no. I'm looking forward to meeting you.
Hari Srinivasan：我们不，不。我很期待见到你。
Thank you, again, for putting in the word.
再次感谢您的发言。
Lenny: Absolutely.
莱尼：当然。
Also, thank you to Jatin for recommending a bunch of questions that I'm going to ask you.
另外，感谢 Jatin 推荐了我要问你的一系列问题。
Hari Srinivasan: That I didn't know.
Hari Srinivasan：我不知道。
Maybe I should've known.
也许我应该知道。
That I didn't know.
我不知道。
Thanks, again, Jatin.
再次感谢贾廷。
It's very kind of you.
你真是太好了。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
Okay.
好的。
Let's roll into some stuff.
让我们开始讨论一些事情。
I actually want to start with LinkedIn as a platform broadly.
我实际上想从 LinkedIn 作为一个广泛的平台开始。
I know you don't work on all parts of LinkedIn and don't necessarily know everything that's going on there, but something I've noticed that's pretty major is, it feels like LinkedIn's really made this move from being a very cringey place to post and spend time to, it's actually now interesting.
我知道你并不负责 LinkedIn 的所有部分，也不一定知道那里发生的一切，但我注意到非常重要的一点是，感觉 LinkedIn 确实从一个非常尴尬的发帖和花时间的地方发生了转变，它现在实际上很有趣。
Lenny: The feed that I see on LinkedIn is interesting.
Lenny：我在 LinkedIn 上看到的动态很有趣。
Oftentimes even more interesting than Twitter, which is crazy to say.
很多时候甚至比 Twitter 更有趣，这说起来很疯狂。
Also, it's become the biggest source of traffic for my newsletter, more so than Twitter, which I never expected.
而且，它已经成为我的时事通讯的最大流量来源，比 Twitter 还要多，这是我始料未及的。
My question is, as far as you know, what is it that y'all did right in the past couple years that has allowed for this shift to happen?
我的问题是，据您所知，过去几年你们都做对了什么，导致了这种转变的发生？
Because this is very rare.
因为这种情况非常罕见。
Hari Srinivasan: Well, first, I'm glad you're having a good experience with it.
Hari Srinivasan：首先，我很高兴您获得了良好的体验。
That's really, really kind to here.
这对这里真的非常非常友善。
First of all, it's very interesting you hit on it.
首先，你偶然发现了它，这很有趣。
Everything at LinkedIn is a very connected ecosystem.
LinkedIn 的一切都是一个紧密相连的生态系统。
One of the things that we always think about is how the whole system fits together.
我们始终考虑的事情之一是整个系统如何组合在一起。
I'm sure we'll get into it more and more about how we build at LinkedIn, but how you make decisions based on the very complicated ecosystem is actually not very difficult because we're all here to help people connect to economic opportunity.
我相信我们会越来越多地讨论我们如何在 LinkedIn 进行建设，但如何根据非常复杂的生态系统做出决策实际上并不是很困难，因为我们都在这里帮助人们连接到经济机会。
Every time there's a discussion, something I'm really, really proud about working here is, everyone knows how that decision is going to be made.
每次进行讨论时，我对在这里工作感到非常非常自豪的是，每个人都知道如何做出决定。
It's all about how we're connecting people to economic opportunity.
这一切都与我们如何将人们与经济机会联系起来有关。
Hari Srinivasan: Now, it's funny.
Hari Srinivasan：现在，这很有趣。
Just the other day, I was driving.
就在前几天，我正在开车。
I was in an Uber with the person who runs a feed.
我和运行 feed 的人一起乘坐 Uber。
He's this guy, Kamesh, who's just phenomenal.
他就是这个人，卡梅什，非常了不起。
We were just talking about this and one of the things he mentioned to me was, "If you think about what a feed is when it connects someone to opportunity, it's got to do a couple of things really, really well." We've done a ton of member surveys on this, a ton of thought behind it.
我们刚刚讨论过这个问题，他向我提到的一件事是，“如果你思考一下推送是什么，当它将某人与机会联系起来时，它必须做得非常非常好。”我们对此进行了大量的会员调查，背后有大量的想法。
The first is, as you make relationship connections across the way, that is a real way by which people get opportunity.
首先，当你在整个过程中建立关系联系时，这是人们获得机会的真正方式。
They keep in touch with those people.
他们与那些人保持联系。
They learn they might follow someone, and hopes in getting knowing them and getting that knowledge.
他们知道自己可能会关注某人，并希望了解他们并获得这些知识。
We got to make sure that that content is getting to them.
我们必须确保这些内容能够传达给他们。
Hari Srinivasan: Then, when you think outside the network, we have to make sure that the things that people really want, which they keep saying are knowledge and advice and ability to get the real perspectives they need to get there, those are the things out of network they want.
Hari Srinivasan：然后，当你在网络之外思考时，我们必须确保人们真正想要的东西，他们一直说的是知识和建议以及获得他们需要的真正观点的能力，这些是他们想要的网络之外的东西。
We've really, really been focused on driving those two systems.
我们真的非常非常专注于驱动这两个系统。
How does someone connect to opportunity both through the people and through the content that they actually want?
人们如何通过人们和他们真正想要的内容来获得机会？
As you know, when you do a feed, there's so many decisions that go into that complex system, so many decisions.
如您所知，当您进行提要时，复杂的系统中有很多决策。
But we've been really, really trying to make sure that we don't lose sight of that and start tuning all those knobs into that direction.
但我们一直非常非常努力地确保我们不会忽视这一点，并开始将所有这些旋钮调整到这个方向。
Lenny: If we're trying to get even more specific with what has changed, clearly there's been a focus internally.
莱尼：如果我们想更具体地了解发生的变化，显然内部存在着一个焦点。
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
There's just like, "Hey, let's make this feed a lot more interesting"?
就像，“嘿，让我们让这个提要变得更有趣”？
Or is this just a never ending and then it's actually started to work investment as far as?
或者这只是一个永无止境的投资，然后才真正开始发挥作用？
Hari Srinivasan: Well, there's always been a focus on connecting people to opportunity.
Hari Srinivasan：嗯，我们一直关注将人们与机会联系起来。
There's always been a focus on that.
一直以来，人们都关注这一点。
I think what's happened over time is we've gotten more and more clear with what our members really want, which is this ability to feel close to those relationships and the ability to really get that knowledge that they need.
我认为随着时间的推移，我们已经越来越清楚我们的会员真正想要什么，那就是这种与这些关系保持密切关系的能力以及真正获得他们需要的知识的能力。
As we've gotten better and clear in that understanding and we've been able to dial the knobs in the right way, I hope it's landing in the right place.
随着我们在这种理解上变得更好、更清晰，并且我们已经能够以正确的方式拨动旋钮，我希望它能落在正确的地方。
I don't think it's any place near declaring victory in any part of this product.
我不认为这足以宣告该产品任何部分的胜利。
Hari Srinivasan: I think one of the beauty of working with that vision of connecting people to opportunity, there is always some piece of friction.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为，以将人们与机会联系起来的愿景为工作的美妙之处之一，总是存在一些摩擦。
There is always something we could be doing better.
总有一些事情我们可以做得更好。
I'm always hesitant to say we've ever hit that bar, and I know there's probably people who listen to you who probably maybe have not had that experience.
我总是犹豫是否要说我们曾经达到过那个标准，而且我知道可能有些听你讲话的人可能没有经历过这种经历。
I always encourage you to reach out and let us know ways we can do better.
我总是鼓励您伸出援手，让我们知道如何做得更好。
But I'm glad you're having an experience with it.
但我很高兴你有这方面的经验。
And then to your point, I always feel that as long as we stay focused on that and each of our decisions start moving in that direction, hopefully the product will continue to deliver.
然后就你的观点而言，我始终认为，只要我们继续专注于这一点，并且我们的每个决定都开始朝这个方向发展，希望产品能够继续交付。
Lenny: Do you know if there's any product changes that have most contributed to that feed becoming much more interesting?
Lenny：你知道是否有任何产品变化最能促使该提要变得更加有趣吗？
Hari Srinivasan: Well, there's a couple of things that I think are very special that we're working on and it's hard to say which is most, because a lot of these things obviously accumulate and compound over time.
Hari Srinivasan：嗯，我认为我们正在研究一些非常特别的事情，很难说哪一个是最特别的，因为很多事情显然会随着时间的推移而积累和复合。
But certainly, there's a lot of machine learning and algorithms that go behind these systems.
但当然，这些系统背后有很多机器学习和算法。
Many of them, as we start understanding that these are things that people get value by, it's about how do we make sure that we're giving people that interesting knowledge?
其中许多，当我们开始理解这些是人们从中获得价值的东西时，我们如何确保我们向人们提供有趣的知识？
As we've gotten crisper on what that means, I think we've been better able to build towards it.
随着我们对这意味着什么有了更清晰的认识，我认为我们能够更好地朝着这个目标迈进。
Hari Srinivasan: The other one, which is new, but I'm just particularly excited about, we're starting to do a lot of things which are gen AI-assisted.
Hari Srinivasan：另一个是新的，但我特别兴奋，我们开始做很多由人工智能辅助的事情。
You basically can come in and get some prompts and people can bury their perspective on that.
基本上你可以进来并得到一些提示，人们可以对此隐藏自己的观点。
I think that combination, it's very early, but it's very exciting on how we might be able to help people unlock knowledge.
我认为这种结合还为时过早，但对于我们如何帮助人们解锁知识来说，这是非常令人兴奋的。
There's almost a billion people now on the platform, knowledge of those billion people in a way that people can find and see.
现在该平台上有近十亿人，这些十亿人的知识以人们可以找到和看到的方式存在。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
Again, I know this isn't the area you spend all your time on, but maybe one more question along these lines.
再说一次，我知道这不是您花费所有时间的领域，但也许还有一个类似的问题。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
Do you have any sense of the kind of content that works best on LinkedIn in terms of the algorithm you talk about?
就您所谈论的算法而言，您是否了解 LinkedIn 上最有效的内容类型？
The algorithm is probably one of the bigger impact things that have changed.
该算法可能是影响较大的变化之一。
Hari Srinivasan: If there's anything with knowledge or advice, I think that's what a lot of people are looking for.
Hari Srinivasan：如果有任何知识或建议，我想这就是很多人正在寻找的。
Every time we run these surveys, every time we talk to people on what they want, those are the things that really when you connect opportunity that people seek after in our system.
每次我们进行这些调查，每次我们与人们谈论他们想要什么时，当你将人们在我们的系统中寻求的机会联系起来时，这些都是真正的东西。
You're a great example of that.
你就是一个很好的例子。
You're able to give knowledge and advice in an area with a lot of depth.
您能够在某个领域提供深入的知识和建议。
I think that maybe that's why you're having some of the success you're seeing on the platform, which is wonderful to see.
我认为这也许就是您在该平台上取得一些成功的原因，这真是太好了。
Lenny: I think I'm actually not getting as much success as I could because I don't put in the time.
莱尼：我认为我实际上没有获得尽可能多的成功，因为我没有投入时间。
I usually just post a simple thing with a link and I think I could be, if I really ...
我通常只是发布一个带有链接的简单内容，我想我可以，如果我真的......
I just don't have time to do this of just like, post a lot more stuff within the actual post.
我只是没有时间这样做，就像在实际帖子中发布更多内容一样。
I think that would do better.
我认为这样会做得更好。
Hari Srinivasan: That actually makes me happy.
Hari Srinivasan：这实际上让我很高兴。
My guess is what you want to be doing is learning and creating and not spending a lot of time managing.
我的猜测是，你想做的是学习和创造，而不是花费大量时间进行管理。
Maybe that's actually a good thing.
也许这实际上是一件好事。
It's actually another wonderful thing to hear.
这实际上是另一件美妙的事情。
Lenny: Yeah, absolutely.
莱尼：是的，绝对是。
Okay.
好的。
Let's move to your sweet spot, which is the talent solution product?
让我们转向您的最佳点，即人才解决方案产品是什么？
Is that what it's called?
是这样叫的吗？
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
It's basically any product on LinkedIn that helps you get a job or learn a skill.
它基本上是 LinkedIn 上任何可以帮助您找到工作或学习技能的产品。
We have products for recruiters and hires, jobs.
我们为招聘人员和雇员、工作提供产品。
We have products for job seekers.
我们为求职者提供产品。
We have LinkedIn Learning and then certainly, we run a pretty large creator ecosystem for instructors who post content into LinkedIn Learning.
我们有 LinkedIn Learning，当然，我们还为在 LinkedIn Learning 中发布内容的教师运营着一个相当大的创作者生态系统。
Lenny: Is it true that this is the biggest business within LinkedIn?
Lenny：这是 LinkedIn 内最大的业务吗？
Hari Srinivasan: It is a very big business between LinkedIn.
Hari Srinivasan：LinkedIn 之间这是一项非常大的业务。
It's certainly hopefully something that, again, if you go back to that vision of connecting people to opportunity, it's certainly something that I like to think is very, very core to that, how people get jobs and learn skills.
当然，如果你回到将人们与机会联系起来的愿景，我认为这肯定是非常非常核心的事情，即人们如何获得工作和学习技能。
Lenny: The feed gets all the glory and you guys are making all the money?
莱尼：提要得到了所有的荣耀，而你们却赚了所有的钱？
Hari Srinivasan: I would not say that, but again, we joke about those things.
Hari Srinivasan：我不会这么说，但我们还是拿这些事情开玩笑。
It's so hard at LinkedIn to separate one product from the other.
在LinkedIn，很难将一种产品与另一种产品区分开来。
It's really the way we run.
这确实是我们跑步的方式。
It's the way we think about the product.
这是我们思考产品的方式。
It's really the way we build.
这确实是我们的构建方式。
Let me just give you a super concrete example of that.
让我给你举一个非常具体的例子。
Certainly, if you have someone coming in and looking at the feed, one thing we might do is suggest a job recommendation based on what they're looking for in that feed.
当然，如果有人进来查看 Feed，我们可能会做的一件事就是根据他们在该 Feed 中寻找的内容提出工作推荐。
Part of what we have to do is think about how someone who's looking at something in their interest might be driving their job-seeking experience as well.
我们必须做的一部分是考虑那些对自己感兴趣的事物感兴趣的人可能会如何推动他们的求职体验。
Hari Srinivasan: And then when they're looking for a job, it's very important that they know how they can actually get connected in that job.
Hari Srinivasan：当他们寻找工作时，了解如何在该工作中真正建立联系非常重要。
The relationship, the network you build are very much part of that flywheel that go into it.
你建立的关系和网络在很大程度上是飞轮的一部分。
And then even as we start looking at this, you might be looking at a subject and then you want to go deeper on, and there's a course that comes into it as well.
然后，即使当我们开始研究这个问题时，您可能正在研究一个主题，然后您想要更深入地研究，并且也有一门课程会涉及到它。
All of this to me is a very, very connected ecosystem on how those items work together in order to give people opportunity.
对我来说，所有这一切都是一个非常非常互联的生态系统，这些生态系统如何协同工作，为人们提供机会。
We might think of it from the outset as very different things, but inside, even the way we operate and the way we think about it, it's a very, very connected ecosystem.
我们可能从一开始就将其视为非常不同的事物，但在内部，甚至我们的运营方式和思考方式，它都是一个非常非常互联的生态系统。
Lenny: What are the components again of this part of the org?
莱尼：组织的这一部分又由哪些组成部分组成？
Hari Srinivasan: We think about it as two different marketplaces.
Hari Srinivasan：我们将其视为两个不同的市场。
There's a hiring marketplace, which is, how do we connect job seekers and recruiters and hiring managers?
有一个招聘市场，即我们如何将求职者与招聘人员和招聘经理联系起来？
And then there's a learning marketplace, which is, how do you connect learners to instructors?
然后还有一个学习市场，即如何将学习者与教师联系起来？
Lenny: Got it.
莱尼：明白了。
And then within hiring, are there subcomponents?
那么在招聘过程中，是否有子组件？
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
Again, we really think about it as a marketplace.
再说一遍，我们确实将其视为一个市场。
We're generally organized around seekers and hires.
我们通常围绕求职者和雇员进行组织。
There's a team that's working on a Recruiter, which is probably one of the more flagship products that LinkedIn has always been around, a team working on jobs, which is, if you ever post a job on LinkedIn, and then a team working to always help job seekers make sure they connect.
有一个团队负责招聘人员，这可能是 LinkedIn 一直以来最旗舰的产品之一；一个团队负责工作，也就是说，如果你在 LinkedIn 上发布了一份工作；然后一个团队致力于帮助求职者确保他们之间的联系。
And then on the other side for learners, instructors, the team working on LinkedIn Learning, which is one of the bigger enterprise learning products in the world.
另一方面，对于学习者、教师、LinkedIn Learning 的团队来说，LinkedIn Learning 是世界上最大的企业学习产品之一。
And then a team working to help instructors.
然后是一个团队来帮助教练。
Hari Srinivasan: Many people don't know this.
Hari Srinivasan：很多人不知道这一点。
We actually have two large film studios.
我们实际上有两个大型电影制片厂。
We bring in instructors.
我们请来了导师。
We film a lot of content.
我们拍摄了很多内容。
One's in Europe and one's in Santa Barbara.
一个在欧洲，一个在圣巴巴拉。
It was all started with the Lynda acquisition.
这一切都始于收购 Lynda。
We have a large team of content creators and teams, everyone from makeup artists to script writers, that we get to use over there.
我们有一个庞大的内容创作者和团队，从化妆师到编剧，我们都可以在那里使用。
Lenny: Wow.
莱尼：哇。
It's just marketplaces all the way down as you talk about this.
当你谈论这个时，这只是市场。
Hiring marketplace, learning marketplace, the feed itself.
招聘市场、学习市场、饲料本身。
Probably more I'm not thinking about.
可能还有更多我没有考虑到。
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
It's very much the one model that we sometimes use internally as well is, how do we operate as marketplaces inside an ecosystem?
这也是我们有时在内部使用的一种模型，即我们如何在生态系统内作为市场进行运营？
I think it speaks to the complexity again of the product and hopefully somehow of how we might operate it.
我认为这再次说明了产品的复杂性，并希望以某种方式说明我们如何操作它。
Lenny: I think with your vantage point at being at the center of hiring, a lot is changing within the hiring marketplace in the past, I don't know, year at this point, where it used to be very candidate-oriented, where they had all the power and they salaries were crazy.
莱尼：我认为，凭借你在招聘中心的优势，过去的招聘市场正在发生很多变化，我不知道，今年这个时候，它曾经非常以候选人为导向，他们拥有所有的权力，他们的薪水也很疯狂。
Everyone's bidding and trying to get people to join their company.
每个人都在竞价并试图让人们加入他们的公司。
Now, it's completely opposite.
现在，情况完全相反了。
So many people looking, companies have all the power.
这么多人看，公司拥有一切权力。
I'm curious what you've seen, if that's roughly it, or what you're seeing basically in the hiring market these days.
我很好奇你所看到的情况（如果大概就是这样），或者你最近在招聘市场上看到的情况。
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
Well, first of all, the balance that you're talking about, it is shifting in the sense that there are more seekers in the marketplace now and there are fewer open jobs in the marketplace.
嗯，首先，你所说的平衡正在发生变化，因为现在市场上的求职者越来越多，而市场上的空缺职位越来越少。
Of course, that changes how many applications you get for the job and how you have to look through.
当然，这会改变你收到的这份工作申请的数量以及你必须如何浏览。
I think there's a model where people think it's drifting dramatically to exactly the way it was.
我认为有一个模型，人们认为它正在急剧地转变为原来的样子。
I actually think some of the changes that occurred during the last couple of years are actually sticking around.
事实上，我认为过去几年发生的一些变化实际上仍然存在。
Let me give you a couple examples of where things I think are really changing.
让我举几个例子来说明我认为真正发生变化的地方。
Hari Srinivasan: The first thing that happened was, and maybe in my opinion, one of the big changes to the world that no one's really talking about it to my degree is the impact of it, but there's been a real move to skills-based hiring.
Hari Srinivasan：在我看来，发生的第一件事可能是世界发生的重大变化之一，在我看来，没有人真正谈论它的影响，但确实出现了基于技能的招聘。
For the longest time, and I'll give you actually a really concrete example, it was March 2020 and we were just watching COVID hit.
在最长的一段时间里，我会给你一个非常具体的例子，那是 2020 年 3 月，我们刚刚目睹了新冠疫情的爆发。
It was just this heartbreaking moment where in the feed you were seeing all these people, by no fault of their own, starting to post that they've lost their job.
正是在这个令人心碎的时刻，你在动态中看到所有这些人，并不是他们自己的过错，开始发布他们失业的消息。
Hari Srinivasan: We started seeing in our data is you had some areas like maybe hospitality was really getting hit, but some areas like customer service that just couldn't hire enough.
Hari Srinivasan：我们开始在数据中看到，有些领域（例如酒店业）确实受到了打击，但有些领域（例如客户服务）却无法招聘足够的员工。
You'd think the marketplace would balance pretty quickly.
您可能认为市场会很快达到平衡。
You'd think, okay, maybe these people will start moving to other jobs, but it wasn't happening.
你可能会想，好吧，也许这些人会开始跳槽到其他工作岗位，但这并没有发生。
A large reason behind this, people are used to looking for certain particular titles, and they didn't start realizing other people could do this job.
这背后的一个重要原因是，人们习惯于寻找某些特定的头衔，并且他们没有开始意识到其他人可以胜任这项工作。
Hari Srinivasan: We made a pretty big push in something we call skills-first hiring.
Hari Srinivasan：我们大力推动了所谓“技能优先”的招聘。
This was the idea that we could translate people's experiences into a set of skills, and by that we could help them really start balancing the marketplace with a much different system.
我们的想法是，我们可以将人们的经验转化为一套技能，这样我们就可以帮助他们真正开始用一个截然不同的系统来平衡市场。
But instead of saying, "I need to have this talent," you can say, "I need someone who can do negotiation, and I need someone who can really help me understand how to deescalate a customer situation."
但你不要说“我需要有这种才能”，而是可以说：“我需要一个能够进行谈判的人，并且我需要一个能够真正帮助我了解如何缓和客户局势的人。”
Hari Srinivasan: You find a lot of people in hospitality have about 70% of the skills you need for customer service and of course, you could train off the rest.
Hari Srinivasan：您会发现酒店业的很多人都拥有客户服务所需的大约 70% 的技能，当然，您可以培训其余的技能。
We started seeing the skills-first hiring really start taking off.
我们开始看到技能优先的招聘真正开始起飞。
At this point, roughly 47% of our recruiters will come in, explicitly use skills when they start looking for candidates.
此时，大约 47% 的招聘人员会在开始寻找候选人时明确使用技能。
That's a pretty big change that we're actually seeing hold.
这是我们实际上看到的一个相当大的变化。
I know it's early in some of these changes, but it's a change where I think people are still continuing to start looking at skills.
我知道其中一些变化还处于早期阶段，但我认为人们仍在继续开始关注技能。
Hari Srinivasan: Another one was this concept of, there's a lot more people who are starting to look for jobs by values.
Hari Srinivasan：另一个概念是，越来越多的人开始根据价值观寻找工作。
They were saying, "Look, most job sites work by you come in and you look for a job and a title, and that's how you navigate the world." We started realizing a lot of people wanted to come in and instead of look at it like that, they may say, "Look, I really want a job.
他们说，“看，大多数招聘网站都是由你进来的，你寻找一份工作和一个头衔，这就是你驾驭世界的方式。”我们开始意识到很多人都想进来，但他们可能会说：“看，我真的想要一份工作，而不是这样看。
This aligned with my purpose." Or even by an interest, I may want something in AI.
这符合我的目的。”或者甚至出于兴趣，我可能想要人工智能方面的东西。
We started launching collections in the way to filter in these things.
我们开始以过滤这些东西的方式推出集合。
We're still seeing some of that usage today.
今天我们仍然看到其中的一些用法。
Hari Srinivasan: I think that the job market is rebalancing, but it's being done, the pathways are being done in a very different way that seems to be maybe a change that holds through these ups and downs.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为就业市场正在重新平衡，但它正在完成，路径正在以一种非常不同的方式完成，这似乎可能是一种能够经历这些起起落落的变化。
That'll be very interesting to see.
这将会非常有趣。
Lenny: What's interesting is it's not like this would change on its own.
莱尼：有趣的是，这不会自行改变。
You're the biggest jobs marketplace in the world, right?
你们是世界上最大的就业市场，对吧？
Hari Srinivasan: We have a lot of professional jobs on our platform and a lot of professional seekers.
Hari Srinivasan：我们的平台上有很多专业职位，也有很多职业求职者。
Lenny: Hopefully, mysterious.
莱尼：希望是神秘的。
I imagine it is.
我想是的。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I guess Indeed might be a competitor, but okay, let's say it's one of the bigger job markets.
我猜 Indeed 可能是一个竞争对手，但是好吧，我们假设它是更大的就业市场之一。
You influenced the way jobs are sought and posted and how people find jobs; so in a sense, designing.
您影响了寻找和发布工作的方式以及人们如何找到工作；所以从某种意义上说，设计。
Sounds like basically, there was an internal decision.
听起来基本上是一个内部决定。
Let's focus on the skills approach.
让我们关注技能方法。
What's cool about that is that changes the way hiring happens in the world.
最酷的一点是它改变了世界上招聘的方式。
Hari Srinivasan: It's one of the things that I think is so interesting about building products today is, it has to clearly be something people want.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为当今构建产品最有趣的事情之一是，它必须明确是人们想要的东西。
If we had just said we're going to go like this, and every hire was like, "I don't want to do this," or every job seeker said, "I don't care about it," I don't think anything would click.
如果我们只是说我们要这样做，而每个员工都说“我不想这样做”，或者每个求职者都说“我不在乎”，我认为任何事情都不会成功。
We also have to be receptive enough to amplify that signal and allow it to work through a system so that it could actually be easy to use.
我们还必须有足够的接受能力来放大该信号并允许它通过系统工作，以便它实际上易于使用。
Hari Srinivasan: I don't think we said that, "Hey, we got to go and do this value-based thing." I think we started feeling it and hearing it from members and then as we adapted, these things start amplifying as they come through.
Hari Srinivasan：我不认为我们说过，“嘿，我们必须去做这个基于价值的事情。”我想我们开始感受到它并从成员那里听到它，然后随着我们的适应，这些事情开始放大。
I do think that's hopefully something that I think about a lot is, let's just make sure that we keep a pulse on what people want and we make sure that we can get that through a system at a pretty fast pace.
我确实认为这希望是我经常思考的事情，让我们确保我们紧跟人们想要什么，并确保我们可以通过系统以相当快的速度实现这一目标。
Because then, we will hopefully continue to be a place where people want to go look for jobs and make hires.
因为那时，我们将有望继续成为人们寻找工作和雇用员工的地方。
Lenny: What I was thinking about as you were just chatting is this open to work feature that LinkedIn has.
Lenny：当你们聊天时我想到的是 LinkedIn 的开放工作功能。
I remember days before that existed and people used to just like jury-rig, "Hey, I'm hiring," or, "I'm looking for a job." There's always this sense that if you're open to work, you're not as good.
我记得在那之前的几天，人们常常喜欢临时起意，“嘿，我正在招聘”，或者“我正在找工作”。人们总是有这样的感觉：如果你对工作持开放态度，那么你就不会那么优秀。
Because why would you be amazing and open to work and not hired?
因为为什么你表现出色、愿意工作却没有被录用呢？
I'm curious if you were even part of this experience.
我很好奇你是否参与了这次经历。
Just, what was it like to come up with that approach to how to communicate that you're open to work?
只是，想出这种方法来表达你对工作持开放态度是什么感觉？
Hari Srinivasan: It's been through phases and I think those phases really reflect on the perception of how it's changed.
Hari Srinivasan：它已经经历了几个阶段，我认为这些阶段确实反映了对其变化的看法。
In the beginning it was, you could say you're open to work, but it was a secret signal to recruiters if you will.
一开始，你可以说你愿意工作，但如果你愿意的话，这对招聘人员来说是一个秘密信号。
That certainly still exists, but now we said you could more publicly say it and maybe it'd be a feed post.
这当然仍然存在，但现在我们说你可以更公开地说出来，也许它会成为一个提要帖子。
And then we started launching it.
然后我们开始启动它。
Actually it was around COVID when a lot of the stigmas of unemployment changed dramatically, because everyone started understanding you're in this different situation.
事实上，在新冠疫情期间，许多失业的耻辱发生了巨大的变化，因为每个人都开始理解你处于这种不同的情况。
We started putting it the frame and that's the more iconic way I think people associate with now.
我们开始把它放在框架中，我认为这是人们现在联想到的更具标志性的方式。
Hari Srinivasan: It's funny.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：这很有趣。
Just this week, we tried something new and I feel like it's almost the same journey.
就在本周，我们尝试了一些新的东西，我觉得这几乎是同样的旅程。
There are many customers as you can imagine, that have LinkedIn Learning and LinkedIn Learning is typically an enterprise product.
您可以想象，有很多客户拥有 LinkedIn Learning，而 LinkedIn Learning 通常是一种企业产品。
It works across your employee base.
它适用于您的整个员工群体。
We're trying to do Open to Internal Work where you can say, "I'm actually at the point where I may want the next play internally in my role," and an internal recruiter can see you.
我们正在尝试对内部工作开放，你可以说，“实际上，我可能希望在内部发挥我的角色的下一个作用”，并且内部招聘人员可以看到你。
As you can imagine, I would actually even maybe argue more stigma about being concerned about upsetting your manager.
正如你可以想象的那样，我什至可能会因为担心惹恼你的经理而争论更多的耻辱。
Certainly, there's different cultures and companies about this.
当然，这方面存在不同的文化和公司。
Hari Srinivasan: I have a feeling in sometimes we like to think five, 10 years out, I think it's going to go on the same journey.
Hari Srinivasan：我有一种感觉，有时我们喜欢思考五年、十年后的情况，我认为我们会走上同样的旅程。
That's one hunch I have, that there'll also be an employment-driven way internally for people to find their next play.
这是我的预感，内部也会有一种就业驱动的方式让人们找到他们的下一场比赛。
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but already you can feel a little bit of that tension right when we launched it and knowing.
看看它如何发挥作用将会很有趣，但是当我们推出它并了解它时，您已经可以感受到一点紧张感。
Let's see how this goes.
让我们看看情况如何。
Lenny: You were talking about how hiring is changing.
莱尼：您刚才谈到了招聘的变化。
I'm curious how PM hiring specifically is changing.
我很好奇 PM 招聘具体是如何变化的。
A lot of people listening to this podcast are product managers.
很多听这个播客的人都是产品经理。
Is there anything unique you're noticing there?
您注意到那里有什么独特之处吗？
Hari Srinivasan: Maybe a couple stats that could be very helpful.
Hari Srinivasan：也许一些统计数据可能非常有帮助。
If you're having a hard time finding a PM role, let's start with this, you're probably not alone.
如果您很难找到 PM 职位，让我们从这个开始吧，您可能并不孤单。
We publish it.
我们发布它。
You can go to Economic Graph data.
你可以去经济图数据。
This is all public.
这都是公开的。
We publish this.
我们发布这个。
But if you look at tech, it's down about 50% year-over-year.
但如果你看看科技行业，你会发现它同比下降了约 50%。
We look at hires over total population on LinkedIn.
我们查看 LinkedIn 上的招聘人数与总人数之比。
You can go to Economic Graphs and you can see how it compares trends industry.
你可以去经济图表，你可以看到它如何比较行业趋势。
We don't look at the functional data as much, but the PM data seems to be trending just slightly even maybe below software engineers and data as well, which is maybe a comp for this.
我们不太关注功能数据，但 PM 数据似乎略有趋势，甚至可能低于软件工程师和数据，这可能是对此的比较。
I know not everything is perfect industry to function cuts.
我知道并不是所有行业都适合削减功能。
Hari Srinivasan: It is a difficult place, but I'll give you a couple tips because I imagine that may be helpful for a couple of the listeners.
Hari Srinivasan：这是一个困难的地方，但我会给你一些建议，因为我想这可能对一些听众有帮助。
It's certainly one of the larger inbounds of things I get.
这当然是我收到的最大的东西之一。
The first is, in those markets, you do want to make sure that the more you can do to form relationships and say that this is what you can do, which is always helpful.
首先，在这些市场中，您确实希望确保您可以做更多的事情来建立关系，并说这就是您可以做的，这总是有帮助的。
Now, I know that not everyone has relationships, but you can always try to develop those at different places and across LinkedIn as well.
现在，我知道并不是每个人都有人际关系，但你总是可以尝试在不同的地方以及在 LinkedIn 上发展这些关系。
But that's one thing I would really, really start to look for.
但这是我真的、真的开始寻找的一件事。
Hari Srinivasan: The second thing I would really do is we have launched the way now to come in and signal obviously that you are interested in a role.
Hari Srinivasan：我真正要做的第二件事是我们现在推出了进来的方式，并明确表明您对某个职位感兴趣。
We have those open to work capabilities, but then each job has a set of skills that they're looking for under it, like we talked about in skills-first hiring.
我们拥有那些开放的工作能力，但每个工作都有一套他们正在寻找的技能，就像我们在技能优先招聘中谈到的那样。
Against each skill, you can actually add different kinds of credentials.
对于每种技能，您实际上可以添加不同类型的凭据。
I would really encourage people to add work products if that's something that they're actually building.
如果人们确实正在构建工作产品，我真的会鼓励他们添加工作产品。
You can add different kinds of recommendations or other things they can associate with that skill.
您可以添加不同类型的建议或其他可以与该技能相关联的内容。
Those credentials against it I think are becoming much more interesting for people to say, "Oh, this is someone I'm actually looking for."
我认为那些反对它的凭据对于人们说“哦，这就是我真正要找的人”来说变得更加有趣。
Hari Srinivasan: And then the third thing I would really encourage PMs to start looking through is, this is probably more personal than anything in data, but every PM job is different.
Hari Srinivasan：我真正鼓励 PM 开始研究的第三件事是，这可能比数据中的任何内容都更加个人化，但每个 PM 工作都是不同的。
If you have experience in that industry and you're able to show that you have experience in that industry or some kind of understanding of it, I think that's a way to separate.
如果你有那个行业的经验，并且你能够证明你有这个行业的经验或者对它有某种理解，我认为这是一种分离的方式。
I'd really start zoning in on roles where you might see if you don't have the functional experience, the industry experience.
如果你没有职能经验、行业经验，我真的会开始划分你可能会看到的角色。
I think that would go a long way as how to help you differentiate from yes, what's probably more candidates, or more applications going into each role.
我认为这对于如何帮助你区分是的，可能有更多的候选人，或者更多的申请进入每个角色，将大有帮助。
Lenny: When you say industry experience, what's an example of that?
Lenny：当你说行业经验时，可以举个什么例子吗？
Hari Srinivasan: Imagine that you are applying for a PM role, but that particular software is in, I don't know, automotive tech.
Hari Srinivasan：想象一下，您正在申请 PM 职位，但该特定软件属于（我不知道）汽车技术领域。
If you happen to have worked in automotive before, have a knowledge about cars, that's a very helpful way to get in.
如果您以前曾在汽车行业工作过，对汽车有一定的了解，那么这是一个非常有帮助的进入方式。
I think if you're able to show that you can show an industry knowledge and an understanding of it, I think it's a real nice way to think about how to position yourself against some of the other candidates.
我认为如果你能够表现出你能够展示出你的行业知识和对它的理解，我认为这是一个很好的方式来思考如何将自己定位于其他一些候选人。
Lenny: What else can that person looking for a job do to improve their chances of a recruiter basically finding them?
莱尼：寻找工作的人还可以做些什么来提高招聘人员基本上找到他们的机会？
I feel like that's probably the best tactical thing they can do because a lot of LinkedIn is recruiters reaching out and finding you.
我觉得这可能是他们能做的最好的策略，因为 LinkedIn 上的很多招聘人员都会主动联系并找到你。
Hari Srinivasan: There's two things that anyone who's hiring is always going to look for.
Hari Srinivasan：有两件事是任何招聘者都会寻找的。
They're going to look for your skills and capabilities and they're going to look for your intent and interest in the role.
他们会寻找你的技能和能力，他们会寻找你对该职位的意图和兴趣。
A lot of our products and the pathways we try to do are making those things simpler.
我们的许多产品和我们尝试做的途径正在使这些事情变得更简单。
Maybe we'll just start with interest and we'll move back to skills in a minute.
也许我们会从兴趣开始，稍后我们会回到技能。
A couple of things we've launched recently, and I think they are symbolic of other ways you can connect.
我们最近推出了一些东西，我认为它们象征着其他的联系方式。
If you go to a company page and you're looking at the company, and I think they have to opt into this in some degree, look, you can say you're interested in that company even though they don't have roles.
如果您访问公司页面并且正在查看该公司，并且我认为他们必须在某种程度上选择加入该公司，那么您可以说您对该公司感兴趣，即使他们没有职位。
When the next role comes up, they'll have a signal that this person is actually very interested in this role.
当下一个角色出现时，他们会发出一个信号，表明这个人实际上对这个角色非常感兴趣。
Hari Srinivasan: That's an easy way to signify from an early stage that you have interest in them.
Hari Srinivasan：这是从早期阶段就表明您对他们感兴趣的简单方法。
That way, when they open up a role, as you can imagine, they start looking through, they'll have a spotlight on recruiter and they can click out on it and come through.
这样，当他们开放一个职位时，正如你可以想象的那样，他们开始仔细查看，他们将关注招聘人员，他们可以点击它并通过。
Certainly, you can go into open work and say that this is something that I'm open to work right now, and you can signify to the whole population that this is an area that you want to go for as well.
当然，你可以进入开放工作并说这是我现在愿意工作的事情，你可以向全体人民表明这也是你想去的领域。
I would encourage both of those in some ways.
我会以某种方式鼓励这两者。
If you're looking for a role, be open about it and tell the companies that you're looking for it.
如果您正在寻找职位，请公开并告诉公司您正在寻找该职位。
Those are really high signals of intent.
这些都是非常强烈的意图信号。
Hari Srinivasan: The other thing you can do on LinkedIn is you can actually go through when you say open to work and you can specify particular kinds of jobs and things you're looking for.
Hari Srinivasan：您在 LinkedIn 上可以做的另一件事是，当您说“开放工作”时，您实际上可以进行操作，并且可以指定特定类型的工作和您正在寻找的东西。
I think that more detailed intent helps make sure you're showing it to the right place.
我认为更详细的意图有助于确保您将其展示到正确的位置。
Hari Srinivasan: On the skill side, we talked about it a little bit, but I do think there's a big change.
Hari Srinivasan：在技能方面，我们讨论了一点，但我确实认为有很大的变化。
When you were just looking at title, I think you only had one way to really prove that you had the skills.
当你只看头衔时，我认为你只有一种方法来真正证明你拥有技能。
You had to have that title, which is very hard to break in.
你必须拥有这个头衔，这是很难打破的。
In a world where you're looking at skills, you can go through and say, "Look, I can do these things and you could put evidence behind it." I'd really encourage people to do that.
在一个你关注技能的世界里，你可以回顾并说：“看，我可以做这些事情，你可以在背后提供证据。”我真的鼓励人们这样做。
If you just go to any job post, you can see the skills, you can say add and you can see all the evidence and how you can add it.
如果你只是去任何工作岗位，你可以看到技能，你可以说添加，你可以看到所有的证据以及如何添加它。
I would really encourage people to do that because when people are in recruiter and they're looking for skills, profiles pop up and you can scroll over a skill and you can actually see all those evidences.
我真的鼓励人们这样做，因为当人们在招聘人员中寻找技能时，个人资料会弹出，你可以滚动技能，你实际上可以看到所有这些证据。
Hari Srinivasan: Basically, a recruiter could say, "Oh, this is why I'd recommend you to this hiring manager." I think you will find that that's hopefully a very useful way of doing it.
Hari Srinivasan：基本上，招聘人员可能会说：“哦，这就是我向这位招聘经理推荐您的原因。”我想您会发现这是一种非常有用的方法。
Lenny: I'm going to lob this question like a fishing line, to see if it catches anything.
莱尼：我会像钓鱼线一样抛出这个问题，看看它是否能钓到任何东西。
And if not, we'll move on.
如果没有，我们将继续前进。
Are there any stats that you've seen of just like if you do X, Y, Z, your chances of getting hired or getting people reaching out just go significantly higher?
您是否见过任何统计数据，就像如果您执行 X、Y、Z，您被雇用或让人们接触的机会就会显着提高？
Hari Srinivasan: Open to work certainly has a high signal to noise.
Hari Srinivasan：开放工作肯定具有很高的信噪比。
As you can imagine, when someone's looking to fill a role, that's one they want.
正如您可以想象的那样，当有人想要填补某个角色时，这就是他们想要的。
We are early in company commitments, but we are seeing some signal there that we got to move through it.
我们处于公司承诺的早期阶段，但我们看到了一些信号，表明我们必须履行它。
Skills has a pretty high signal as well, when you're able to come through and show and demonstrate your skills.
当你能够通过并展示你的技能时，技能也有一个相当高的信号。
We're seeing some correlation to basically people getting a role.
我们发现基本上人们获得职位之间存在一些相关性。
Hari Srinivasan: And then the final one that is harder for us to look through, but it's certainly important.
Hari Srinivasan：最后一个对我们来说比较难看，但它确实很重要。
I do think we show the hiring manager on a lot of the roles.
我确实认为我们向招聘经理展示了很多角色。
We show these people through.
我们向这些人展示。
It's harder for us to trace that because of the way the outcomes work, but I would really encourage people to look through that and see if you can get in front of those people.
由于结果的运作方式，我们很难追踪这一点，但我真的鼓励人们仔细研究这一点，看看你是否能站在这些人的面前。
Lenny: Is there a max seniority that you find works effectively on LinkedIn to find a job?
Lenny：您认为在 LinkedIn 上找工作是否有有效的最高资历限制？
I imagine CPOs aren't finding jobs on LinkedIn.
我想 CPO 不会在 LinkedIn 上找到工作。
If I'm looking for a job, do you have a rule of thumb of, if you're at this level, maybe you're not going to have a lot of luck?
如果我正在找工作，你是否有一个经验法则：如果你处于这个水平，也许你不会有很多运气？
If you're below the-
如果你低于-
Hari Srinivasan: We certainly have CPO jobs that are posted, but the difference often is job posts versus recruiting.
Hari Srinivasan：我们当然有发布 CPO 职位，但区别通常在于职位发布与招聘。
More and more senior roles are often recruited.
经常招募越来越多的高级职位。
We find that people will use LinkedIn in order to connect to a CPO and many people who are senior will say, "Oh, I got a message on LinkedIn and that led to this," or they made a long-term recruiting contact.
我们发现人们会使用 LinkedIn 来联系 CPO，许多资深人士会说，“哦，我在 LinkedIn 上收到一条消息，这导致了这一点”，或者他们建立了长期的招聘联系。
But it may not happen through you finding a job and hitting the application button.
但这可能不会通过您找到工作并点击申请按钮来实现。
Lenny: Let's talk about LinkedIn as a company to work in, the culture maybe for a bit.
莱尼：我们来谈谈 LinkedIn 作为一家工作公司，也许可以谈谈它的文化。
You told me that you have a story about your first product review when you joined LinkedIn and how that was wild.
你告诉我，你有一个关于你加入 LinkedIn 时的第一次产品评论的故事，以及那是多么疯狂。
Can you just tell that story?
你能简单讲一下这个故事吗？
I haven't heard this yet.
我还没听说过这个。
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
I came through a small acquisition that they made of our company, and I thought it was such a telling moment in this first product review.
我经历了他们对我们公司的一次小规模收购，我认为这是第一次产品审查中的一个非常有说服力的时刻。
I went in and as you can imagine when you join a company, there's a lot of advice on how you should make that product work.
我进去后，你可以想象，当你加入一家公司时，会有很多关于如何让该产品发挥作用的建议。
I didn't know anything.
我什么都不知道。
I'd never been a PM.
我从来没有当过总理。
I remember taking a lot of that advice and putting together a presentation and just getting destroyed during that review.
我记得我采纳了很多建议并整理了一份演示文稿，但在审查过程中却被毁了。
I think Jeff was the head of product and CEO at that point.
我认为杰夫当时是产品主管兼首席执行官。
In a very kind way, it was basically like, "Wait, this doesn't make any sense."
以一种非常友善的方式，基本上就像是，“等等，这没有任何意义。”
Hari Srinivasan: I just remember driving home and calling my wife and like, "I think I might be fired." I'm not sure if I was fired, but he was very kind about it.
Hari Srinivasan：我只记得开车回家，打电话给我的妻子，“我想我可能会被解雇。”我不确定我是否被解雇了，但他对此非常友善。
He's like, "Just come back and exit." I think five, four weeks.
他就像是，“回来然后退出。”我想五、四个星期。
I remembered at that point I was like, if you're going to go in and you know you only have one shot, just do something you believe in and make sure it works.
我记得当时我就想，如果你要进去并且你知道你只有一次机会，那就做你相信的事情并确保它有效。
We started from that point and we worked backwards from there in this concept of, "Hey, I do believe that the most important thing is connecting to opportunity and we should really understand how to do that.
我们从这一点开始，并从那里开始反向工作，这个概念是：“嘿，我确实相信最重要的是与机会联系，我们应该真正了解如何做到这一点。
Let's just start from there." It went very well.
让我们从那里开始吧。”进展顺利。
Hari Srinivasan: To me, it was another way of you're in these large systems, you're in these large companies, you're in these large ...
Hari Srinivasan：对我来说，这是你在这些大系统中的另一种方式，你在这些大公司中，你在这些大......
I think LinkedIn is very special because no matter what it is, it's got a very good North Star.
我认为LinkedIn非常特别，因为无论它是什么，它都有一个非常好的北极星。
It was a moment for me to really hammer that home, that as long as you get that North Star ahead of you, you're going to be just fine.
那是一个让我真正牢记这一点的时刻，只要你把北极星放在你前面，你就会没事的。
I never worked at a place like that before, and I think a lot of times people wonder.
我以前从未在这样的地方工作过，我想很多时候人们都想知道。
You can imagine.
你可以想象。
The way we're talking about, we certainly have an engagement ecosystem.
正如我们所说，我们当然有一个参与生态系统。
We have the hiring business and we have a marketing solutions business.
我们有招聘业务，也有营销解决方案业务。
We have a big premium business.
我们有很大的优质业务。
Hari Srinivasan: You can imagine when you're trying to make decisions across that, it could get very, very complicated.
Hari Srinivasan：你可以想象，当你试图对此做出决定时，事情可能会变得非常非常复杂。
I think when people ask me to describe LinkedIn, I often start with that story because I feel like it helps cut through how decisions are made and what is seen as success here.
我想，当人们让我描述 LinkedIn 时，我经常会从这个故事开始，因为我觉得它有助于切入决策的制定方式以及这里所认为的成功。
Lenny: Just to clarify, so that North star is that phrase that you used of just connecting people to economic opportunity?
莱尼：澄清一下，北极星是您用来将人们与经济机会联系起来的短语吗？
Hari Srinivasan: That's it.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：就是这样。
That's it.
就是这样。
I know it sounds bigger than it seems, but I can probably ...
我知道它听起来比看起来更大，但我也许可以......
Time example again.
再次以时间为例。
You can understand when someone's driving on it.
当有人开车时你可以理解。
Having been here for a little bit now, you can understand when someone knows that and when someone doesn't.
在这里呆了一段时间，你就能理解什么时候有人知道，什么时候有人不知道。
It's a hard thing to lose track of.
失去踪迹是一件很难的事情。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
It does sound vague and a nice, fuzzy, warm thing that people can say.
这听起来确实很模糊，但人们可以说这是一个美好的、模糊的、温暖的事情。
What you're saying is that it's actually brought up in meetings constantly and product reviews.
你所说的是，它实际上是在会议和产品评论中不断提出的。
You're saying in this product review, everything changed when you came at it from that one perspective?
您是说在这篇产品评论中，当您从这个角度来看时，一切都改变了？
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
My first product here was the profile.
我在这里的第一个产品是个人资料。
You can make a profile that does a lot of different things, as you can imagine.
正如您可以想象的那样，您可以创建一个执行许多不同操作的配置文件。
You could think about how identity could be used in many different phases and what you should prioritize and not.
您可以考虑如何在许多不同的阶段使用身份，以及您应该优先考虑什么，不应该优先考虑什么。
But if you can explain why this is the thing that you should do that would help someone really do what they want to do, maybe it's have an incredible podcast and send that out there, maybe it's helping someone connect to a job.
但如果你能解释为什么这是你应该做的事情，这将帮助某人真正做他们想做的事情，也许它有一个令人难以置信的播客并将其发送到那里，也许它可以帮助某人与工作建立联系。
But if you can understand intent and how this is unblocked and why you want to prioritize that item, all of a sudden the world gets a lot simpler.
但是，如果您能够理解意图以及如何解除障碍以及为什么要优先考虑该项目，那么世界突然变得简单多了。
Lenny: How does that actually get operationalized at a company?
莱尼：这在公司实际上是如何实施的？
Is it just the leaders remind people of that?
难道只是领导提醒人们这一点吗？
It's painted on the walls?
是画在墙上的吗？
How is that a thing that people come back to over and over?
为什么人们会一遍又一遍地提到这一点？
Hari Srinivasan: I do think it's a lot of repeat, repeat, repeat.
Hari Srinivasan：我确实认为这是很多重复、重复、重复。
I do think that's it.
我认为就是这样。
I do think the culture has a pretty high immune system now in the sense that when you aren't operating by that, people can see it and they operate against it.
我确实认为现在的文化具有相当高的免疫系统，从某种意义上说，当你不按照它进行操作时，人们可以看到它并对其进行操作。
I think when Jeff was CEO, and Ryan, they are just exceptional at continuously repeating that.
我认为当杰夫和瑞安担任首席执行官时，他们非常擅长不断重复这一点。
It's been so consistent for so long that I think it's just the DNA now.
这么长时间以来它一直如此一致，我认为现在这只是 DNA 的问题。
I do think it's exceptional.
我确实认为这很特别。
I think it's exceptional leadership, and I've learned so much from watching it and how it gets operated.
我认为这是非凡的领导力，我从观察它及其运作方式中学到了很多东西。
Lenny: Is there a metric associated with that when people use it in a way of like, no, that's not actually what we mean?
莱尼：当人们以某种方式使用它时，是否有一个与之相关的指标，不，这实际上不是我们的意思？
Is there some way of making it even more concrete in goals, metrics, ways to understand if people are actually achieving that?
有没有什么方法可以让目标、指标、方法更加具体，以了解人们是否真正实现了这一目标？
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
Totally.
完全。
I think at the next level of operation, what we think about is, when we run these marketplaces throughout this ecosystem that connect people to opportunity, what are the outputs that they measure?
我认为在下一个运营层面，我们要考虑的是，当我们在整个生态系统中运行这些市场以将人们与机会联系起来时，他们衡量的产出是什么？
I'll just give you mine for example.
我就给你我的例子。
We think a lot about number of hires, converting hires.
我们对员工数量和员工转换进行了很多思考。
How many people did we match?
我们匹配了多少人？
Which is a real tangible way of looking at opportunity.
这是一种真正切实可行的寻找机会的方式。
Hari Srinivasan: And then number of people who learned a skill, which is usually in this world measured more by time than anything if you learn.
Hari Srinivasan：然后是学习一项技能的人数，在这个世界上，如果你学习了这项技能，时间通常比任何东西都更能衡量。
Spend time for X amount of minutes.
花 X 分钟的时间。
We do that skill because oftentimes skills don't have a direct outcome as you can measure to go through.
我们之所以使用这项技能，是因为技能通常不会产生直接的结果，因为你可以通过测量来实现。
We basically look at those things more than any other to say how successful that we are operating that marketplace.
基本上，我们比其他任何事情都更关注这些事情，以表明我们运营该市场的成功程度。
Lenny: Got it.
莱尼：明白了。
Those make total sense to me.
这些对我来说完全有意义。
Lenny: Are there other core values of LinkedIn that are public that you can share?
Lenny：LinkedIn 是否还有其他公开的核心价值观可以分享？
Hari Srinivasan: You can Google them too and so they're very, very public, but probably the one that I think is most important to talk about in this world is, there's this concept of members first.
Hari Srinivasan：你也可以在谷歌上搜索它们，所以它们非常非常公开，但我认为在这个世界上最值得谈论的可能是，有会员第一的概念。
I think anytime you run an ecosystem as complex as we do and you think about it, even if you're trying to connect people to opportunity, there's two people, how are you going to decide right now who needs it?
我认为任何时候你运行一个像我们一样复杂的生态系统并且你会想到它，即使你试图将人们与机会联系起来，有两个人，你现在将如何决定谁需要它？
Hari Srinivasan: I think having clarity on which piece of the ecosystem is going to be where the focus is, it helps us make sure we establish a relationship of trust first, make sure to understand who's getting access to data, make sure we understand how decisions are being made.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为明确生态系统的哪一部分将成为重点，这有助于我们确保首先建立信任关系，确保了解谁在访问数据，确保我们了解如何做出决策。
I always love that as a principle that we've stuck by.
我一直很喜欢这一点，并将其作为我们一直坚持的原则。
Lenny: Yeah, I see it on the page here.
莱尼：是的，我在这里的页面上看到了。
We put members first.
我们把会员放在第一位。
Hari Srinivasan: Story checks out is what you're telling me.
Hari Srinivasan：事实证明，这就是你告诉我的。
Lenny: Checks out.
莱尼：检查一下。
Checks out.
退房。
What's interesting is the connecting people to opportunity, economic opportunity is not one of these values.
有趣的是，将人们与机会联系起来，经济机会并不是这些价值观之一。
It seems like it's even broader.
好像范围还更广了。
They should at the company basically.
基本上应该在公司。
Lenny: Got it.
莱尼：明白了。
Okay.
好的。
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
This episode is brought to you by Eppo.
本集由 Eppo 为您带来。
Eppo is a next generation AB testing platform built by Airbnb alums for modern growth teams.
Eppo 是 Airbnb 校友为现代增长团队打造的下一代 AB 测试平台。
Companies like DraftKings, Zapier, ClickUp, Twitch, and Cameo rely on Eppo to power their experiments.
DraftKings、Zapier、ClickUp、Twitch 和 Cameo 等公司依靠 Eppo 来支持他们的实验。
Wherever you work, running experiments is increasingly essential, but there are no commercial tools that integrate with a modern growth team stack.
无论您在哪里工作，进行实验都变得越来越重要，但是没有可以与现代增长团队堆栈集成的商业工具。
This leads to waste of time building internal tools or trying to run your own experiments through a clunky marketing tool.
这会导致浪费时间构建内部工具或尝试通过笨重的营销工具进行自己的实验。
Lenny: When I was at Airbnb, one of the things that I loved most about working there was our experimentation platform, where I was able to slice and dice data by device types, country, user stage.
Lenny：当我在 Airbnb 工作时，我最喜欢在那里工作的事情之一就是我们的实验平台，在这里我能够按设备类型、国家/地区、用户阶段对数据进行切片和切块。
Eppo does all that and more, delivering results quickly, avoiding knowing prolonged analytics cycles, and helping you easily get to the root cause of any issue you discover.
Eppo 做到了这一切，甚至更多，快速提供结果，避免了解延长的分析周期，并帮助您轻松找到所发现问题的根本原因。
Eppo lets you go beyond basic clickthrough metrics and instead, use your North Star metrics, like activation, retention, subscription, and payments.
Eppo 可以让您超越基本的点击率指标，而是使用您的北极星指标，例如激活、保留、订阅和付款。
Eppo supports test on the front end, on the back end, email marketing, even machine learning claims.
Eppo 支持前端、后端测试、电子邮件营销，甚至机器学习声明。
Check out Eppo geteppo.com.
请访问 Eppo geteppo.com。
That's geteppo.com and 10X your experiment velocity.
这就是 geteppo.com，并且是您实验速度的 10 倍。
Lenny: You've touched on this idea of a complex system and I want to spend a little bit more time there.
莱尼：您已经谈到了复杂系统的概念，我想在此多花一点时间。
LinkedIn is, as you said, very, very complicated.
正如您所说，LinkedIn 非常非常复杂。
There's all these marketplaces within marketplaces.
市场中存在所有这些市场。
There's so many customers you got to make happy.
有这么多顾客，你必须让他们高兴。
They all have to work together.
他们都必须共同努力。
I'm just curious what you've learned about building and maintaining a complex ecosystem like that.
我只是好奇你在构建和维护这样一个复杂的生态系统方面学到了什么。
Hari Srinivasan: It's a fantastic question.
Hari Srinivasan：这是一个很棒的问题。
I just openly think first of all, just career-wise, I've always been drawn to that.
我只是公开地认为，首先，就职业而言，我一直对此感兴趣。
We talk about product as a whole.
我们谈论产品作为一个整体。
We always talk about it as a whole, but there's many different things you can build, many different types of things.
我们总是将其作为一个整体来讨论，但是您可以构建许多不同的东西，许多不同类型的东西。
And then we go, maybe there's hardware and software consumer goods.
然后我们继续看，也许还有硬件和软件消费品。
I actually try to think about products by their complexity curve a lot.
实际上，我经常尝试根据产品的复杂性曲线来思考产品。
Hari Srinivasan: I think that the skills you need to manage a complicated ecosystem versus maybe the skills you need to design something that's less interconnected are quite different.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为管理复杂的生态系统所需的技能与设计互联程度较低的东西所需的技能是完全不同的。
I will get to the details maybe of what I mean in a minute, but I do think LinkedIn's a particularly complicated place.
我可能会在一分钟内详细了解我的意思，但我确实认为 LinkedIn 是一个特别复杂的地方。
And I do think that the skillsets that you think through and you try to manage in a complicated ecosystem are quite different.
我确实认为，你在复杂的生态系统中思考和尝试管理的技能是完全不同的。
Maybe some tactics that can help if it's something along those lines.
如果是这样的话，也许一些策略可以有所帮助。
Hari Srinivasan: One of the things that I often think about is this concept of cause and effect.
Hari Srinivasan：我经常思考的事情之一就是因果概念。
If you have non-interconnected things, it's actually quite easy not to have to think about that.
如果你有不相互关联的事物，实际上很容易不必考虑这一点。
You made something people love.
你创造了人们喜爱的东西。
I wrote a children's book not too long ago and it was fun.
不久前我写了一本儿童读物，很有趣。
It was awesome to write.
写得真棒。
Once it was done, it was done, and it was out there and it was able to go.
一旦完成了，就完成了，它就在那里，可以走了。
That's a little bit different than here.
那和这里有点不同。
If you make a change, like open to work, all of a sudden you're thinking through the perception of someone on the other side.
如果你做出改变，比如对工作持开放态度，你会突然开始考虑对方的看法。
What is that going to do?
那要做什么？
Are they going to use the platform less or more?
他们会减少还是更多地使用该平台？
You're thinking about customers.
您正在考虑客户。
What are they going to do with that data?
他们将如何处理这些数据？
Are they going to, to your point, perceive someone in a different way or not?
按照你的观点，他们是否会以不同的方式看待某人？
Hari Srinivasan: You have to think through second and third and maybe even fourth effects and manage that as you go through.
Hari Srinivasan：你必须考虑第二个、第三个，甚至第四个影响，并在经历过程中进行管理。
I think that is something we really pride ourselves on is, how do we start thinking through these different things, and how do we start measuring them as we go?
我认为我们真正引以为豪的是，我们如何开始思考这些不同的事情，以及我们如何开始衡量它们？
That is one.
那是一个。
Hari Srinivasan: The second thing I actually think is it does lead to your point a lot.
Hari Srinivasan：我实际上认为的第二件事是，它确实在很大程度上引出了你的观点。
You need a different kind of decision-making mechanism because there's a lot more ties in the ecosystem, a lot of people who just need a way to break it.
你需要一种不同类型的决策机制，因为生态系统中有更多的联系，很多人只需要一种方法来打破它。
We've put in things like we have something called RAPID, which is a really easy way to know who the decision-maker is.
我们已经投入了诸如 RAPID 之类的东西，这是一种了解决策者是谁的非常简单的方法。
Just, you line up who's a recommender, who has to agree, who's a decision-maker.
只是，你要排列谁是推荐人，谁必须同意，谁是决策者。
We have something called a five-day escalation rule, which makes sure that those items are in.
我们有一个叫做五天升级规则的东西，它可以确保这些项目都在。
I think you lead a lot more of those fuse, I don't know what they're called, fuse limits, or just systems in place in order to manage that complexity so that things get done.
我认为你领导了更多的保险丝，我不知道它们叫什么，保险丝限制，或者只是为了管理这种复杂性以便完成事情而建立的系统。
I think that those processes are actually really, really important to make sure that the ecosystem can run.
我认为这些流程对于确保生态系统的运行实际上非常非常重要。
Lenny: Let's talk about these two processes.
Lenny：我们来谈谈这两个过程。
RAPID, and what was the other one?
RAPID，另外一个是什么？
Five-day-
五天——
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah, five-day alignment.
Hari Srinivasan：是的，五天调整。
They've both been around LinkedIn for a little bit, but they're great.
他们都在 LinkedIn 上工作了一段时间，但他们都很棒。
The RAPID is just a question of oftentimes to your point, if you're running two, three marketplaces, several different business model here, there's a question of who has the decision?
对于您来说，RAPID 只是一个经常出现的问题，如果您正在运营两个、三个市场，这里有几种不同的商业模式，那么就会出现谁有决定权的问题？
Who can make the decision in this situation?
在这种情况下谁能做出决定呢？
Making sure that you have a single person's name with the decision and that person is ...
确保您的决定中有一个人的名字，并且该人是......
That is really, really important because it gets the clarity real fast.
这真的非常非常重要，因为它可以快速获得清晰度。
Hari Srinivasan: It's more of a personal rule, but one thing I love to say is, if you had three back and forths in an email, you got to pick up the phone.
Hari Srinivasan：这更多的是个人规则，但我喜欢说的一件事是，如果你在一封电子邮件中来回三遍，你就必须拿起电话。
And if you've been on the phone for 20 minutes, it's time to just write that decision-maker and go.
如果您已经打了 20 分钟电话，就该给决策者写信然后走开。
That way, you can make sure the concept of an hour, you should be able to get a decision.
这样，你就可以确定一个小时的概念，你应该能够得到决定。
It doesn't always operate like that.
它并不总是这样运作。
I'm sure there's many PMs on LinkedIn who are operating here maybe, who may have some feedback from me on that, but that's the intent behind it.
我确信 LinkedIn 上可能有很多 PM 在这里工作，他们可能会从我这里得到一些反馈，但这就是其背后的意图。
Hari Srinivasan: And then a five-day alignment is, you should hold your managers accountable.
Hari Srinivasan：然后，为期五天的调整是，你应该让你的经理承担责任。
That in five days if someone has something that they haven't been able to escalate and solve, that's probably then on the next level of person.
五天内，如果有人遇到无法升级和解决的问题，那么他可能会进入下一个层次。
But as you run that ecosystem and there's so much complexity around it, I think you need some of those processes in place in order to start answering some of those tiebreakers, if you will.
但当你运行这个生态系统时，它周围有如此多的复杂性，我认为你需要一些适当的流程，以便开始回答一些决胜局，如果你愿意的话。
Lenny: Ooh, I like that five-day rule.
莱尼：哦，我喜欢五天规则。
Basically puts the clock on a manager to get to unblock, basically?
基本上就是给经理一个时间来解锁，基本上？
Lenny: With RAPID, I don't know if I totally understand.
Lenny：对于 RAPID，我不知道我是否完全理解。
Is that an acronym for something?
这是某物的缩写吗？
Or is it just-
或者只是——
Hari Srinivasan: No, that's a great question.
Hari Srinivasan：不，这是一个很好的问题。
The D stands for decisions, but the R is for who's recommending it.
D 代表决策，而 R 代表推荐者。
The A, who has to agree.
A，必须同意。
The I is for other people who may be able to be putting in an input.
I 是针对那些可能能够提出意见的其他人。
It's basically a list of people who need to be in the decision chain.
它基本上是需要参与决策链的人员列表。
Hari Srinivasan: I would argue the most important thing is to have a single name on that decision line, because that usually makes sure that you can get a decision very quickly.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为最重要的是在决策线上有一个单一的名字，因为这通常可以确保您可以很快做出决定。
Lenny: Are there any other really common frameworks or processes along these lines at LinkedIn that you find really helpful?
Lenny：LinkedIn 上还有其他真正通用的框架或流程吗？您认为这些框架或流程确实有帮助吗？
Hari Srinivasan: The third thing is just in how we think about talent, especially in the product organization.
Hari Srinivasan：第三件事是我们如何看待人才，尤其是在产品组织中。
I often really do try to suss out during interviews or in how we promote people, just their ability to see systems.
我经常在面试过程中或我们如何提拔员工时确实尝试弄清楚他们看待系统的能力。
Because again, I do think it's a different skillset and a different capability of how we map those things out on a complexity curve.
因为我确实认为这是一种不同的技能和不同的能力，我们如何将这些东西映射到复杂性曲线上。
Oftentimes, I think those talent systems will ...
很多时候，我认为那些天赋系统会......
those who are able to see the whole, make decisions at the whole, that's rare actually.
那些能够看到整体、从整体上做决定的人，其实是很少见的。
Hari Srinivasan: I think most talent systems are, "Hey, how did your division grow or your product grow, your era grow?" We've tried our best to understand that it's not just about that.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为大多数人才系统都是，“嘿，你的部门或你的产品如何成长，你的时代是如何成长的？”我们已尽力了解这不仅仅是这个问题。
You want accountability in the ecosystem of course, but how well does this person work across?
当然，您希望在生态系统中承担责任，但是这个人的工作表现如何？
I think as we've created telemetry around that or organizational understanding of that, how we've understood ourselves, just, "Hey, this is the skillset that's really important here," I think that's quite rare in driving that kind of complexity system as well.
我认为，当我们围绕这一点或组织对此的理解创建遥测技术时，我们如何理解自己，只是，“嘿，这是这里非常重要的技能组”，我认为这在驱动这种复杂性系统中也是相当罕见的。
Lenny: One more question along these lines.
莱尼：还有一个问题。
Lenny: You've been at LinkedIn for a long time.
Lenny：你在 LinkedIn 工作很长时间了。
It feels like historically, LinkedIn as a product team, the external impression was it's very optimizey-oriented and everyone there is just micro-optimizing all the little features of LinkedIn.
感觉就像从历史上看，LinkedIn 作为一个产品团队，外部印象是它非常以优化为导向，那里的每个人都只是对 LinkedIn 的所有小功能进行微观优化。
Everyone I've worked with from LinkedIn, they're just really good at just optimizing things.
我在 LinkedIn 工作过的每个人都非常擅长优化事物。
Lenny: It feels like a lot of new stuff is happening with LinkedIn these days and I'm curious if that's been a real intentional shift of let's not focus so much on making emails work better and all the click-through rates of everything and more just, let's innovate more, let's do some bigger bets.
Lenny：感觉这些天 LinkedIn 上发生了很多新的事情，我很好奇这是否是一个真正有意的转变，让我们不要过多关注如何让电子邮件更好地工作以及所有内容的点击率，更公正的是，让我们进行更多创新，让我们做一些更大的赌注。
Hari Srinivasan: I do think there's two things to acknowledge.
Hari Srinivasan：我确实认为有两件事需要承认。
First, there's an incredible growth team, and I think a lot of people that go on from LinkedIn in incredible roles are growth.
首先，有一个令人难以置信的成长团队，我认为很多从 LinkedIn 担任令人难以置信的角色的人都是成长型的。
I think there's an influencer change that a lot of people you meet might be growth-oriented.
我认为影响者发生了变化，你遇到的很多人可能都是以成长为导向的。
The second thing is, especially when LinkedIn started, and like you said, I've been here a little bit of time, but growing the network is probably a very, very important thing to get the scale out.
第二件事是，特别是当 LinkedIn 开始时，就像你说的，我已经在这里呆了一段时间，但发展网络可能是扩大规模的非常非常重要的事情。
I think a lot of things people interacted with at first were maybe more growth mechanisms than other systems.
我认为人们最初互动的很多东西可能比其他系统更多的是增长机制。
Hari Srinivasan: I do think there's always been, at least for the last several years, an underlining line that value is what's going to carry this ecosystem, and value is ultimately what makes the day.
Hari Srinivasan：我确实认为，至少在过去几年里，一直有一条强调的线：价值是支撑这个生态系统的因素，而价值最终是造就这一天的因素。
To your point, I like to think that they may not be the most, I don't know, the glittery items, but I'm really proud of what we've done with skills.
就你的观点而言，我认为它们可能不是最，我不知道，最闪亮的物品，但我对我们在技能方面所做的事情感到非常自豪。
I think that's one of those invisible systems that no one really knows.
我认为这是无人真正了解的隐形系统之一。
Like, oh my gosh, that's a huge disruption if people can now get ...
就像，哦天哪，如果人们现在能够得到……那将是一个巨大的破坏。
That's a huge language that people have created.
这是人们创造的一种巨大的语言。
That's a huge way that people have changed.
这是人们发生的巨大改变。
Hari Srinivasan: We're really proud of what we've done with values.
Hari Srinivasan：我们对我们在价值观方面所做的事情感到非常自豪。
Even open to work and commitments, these are major social systems that we've wired through.
即使对工作和承诺持开放态度，这些也是我们所连接的主要社会系统。
I'm really proud of what we've done with LinkedIn Learning.
我对我们在 LinkedIn Learning 上所做的一切感到非常自豪。
I would argue it's one of the bigger creator systems in the world.
我认为它是世界上更大的创作者系统之一。
It's these incredible instructors and the ability to take someone who teaches, maybe is not great on camera, and move them to the studio and give them that capability and take their voice out there.
正是这些令人难以置信的教练和能力，让那些在镜头前表现不佳的老师，把他们带到演播室，赋予他们这种能力，让他们发出自己的声音。
Hari Srinivasan: I think there's a lot of different things we've done that maybe because they're more invisible, if you will, or they're hidden in a marketplace that necessarily maybe a lot of the influencer voices may not actually need an access every day, I don't know if they get as much visibility.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为我们做了很多不同的事情，也许是因为它们更隐形，如果你愿意的话，或者它们隐藏在一个市场中，很多有影响力的声音可能实际上并不需要每天访问，我不知道他们是否获得了那么多的可见度。
But I like to think that's been part of the DNA for a while and we've been really thinking through it.
但我认为这已经成为 DNA 的一部分一段时间了，我们一直在认真思考它。
Lenny: Let's actually talk about LinkedIn Learning.
Lenny：我们实际上来谈谈 LinkedIn 学习。
I know this is a big passion of yours.
我知道这是你的一大爱好。
You have your own course within this that I want to talk about.
我想谈谈您在这方面有自己的课程。
But broadly, just what is LinkedIn Learning, just so people understand?
但从广义上讲，LinkedIn 学习到底是什么？只是为了让人们理解？
Because I don't know if a lot of people know this exists within LinkedIn.
因为我不知道是否有很多人知道 LinkedIn 中存在这个功能。
Hari Srinivasan: Great question.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：好问题。
LinkedIn Learning is basically a way to learn professional skills.
LinkedIn 学习基本上是学习专业技能的一种方式。
We entered the business in 2015 and the thesis was, we think about it as a marketplace again.
我们于 2015 年进入这个行业，我们的主题是，我们再次将其视为一个市场。
You have seekers and job and oftentimes, seekers may not have all the skills in order to get the job.
你有求职者和工作，但通常情况下，求职者可能不具备获得这份工作的所有技能。
We're moving now towards the skills model, but without question, this other second-order impact.
我们现在正在转向技能模型，但毫无疑问，这是另一个二阶影响。
I don't think any of us wanted to, if you will, uberize the world.
如果你愿意的话，我认为我们中没有人想要让世界变得优步化。
I don't think any of us wanted to make everyone there.
我认为我们中没有人想让每个人都在那里。
We wanted to make sure everyone had the skills in order to learn the skills, in order to get there.
我们希望确保每个人都具备学习技能、实现目标的技能。
Getting the learning business was really, really important for the vision and the mission.
获得学习业务对于愿景和使命来说非常非常重要。
Basically, the idea was that we'd have ways to teach people skills that was very much tailored to professionals.
基本上，我们的想法是，我们有办法教授非常适合专业人士的技能。
Hari Srinivasan: Now, that was the vision.
Hari Srinivasan：现在，这就是愿景。
The way the mechanism works is, we go and get the best instructors in the world.
该机制的运作方式是，我们去找世界上最好的教练。
We will bring them into a film studio.
我们将把他们带进电影制片厂。
We will do it at home or in a way that makes the content extremely ...
我们将在家里或以一种使内容极其......的方式进行。
We help write the scripts, we obviously have incredible graphic, in a way that makes a teacher and someone who's an expert who may not always have the capability or the time to go and make their own online course and get them in the studio and go from there.
我们帮助编写脚本，我们显然拥有令人难以置信的图形，以某种方式使老师和专家成为可能并不总是有能力或时间去制作自己的在线课程并让他们进入工作室并从那里开始。
And then the vast majority of people will probably have access to it through their company.
然后绝大多数人可能可以通过他们的公司访问它。
The vast majority of the usage and the business runs through enterprise and is a large enterprise learning product.
绝大多数的使用和业务贯穿于企业，是大型企业学习产品。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
Yeah.
是的。
I'm just as a, I don't know, armchair quarterback strategy person, I could see where this came from of we're trying to help people connect to economic opportunity, find jobs.
我只是作为一个，我不知道，纸上谈兵的四分卫战略人员，我可以看到这从何而来，我们正在努力帮助人们获得经济机会，找到工作。
How do we help them?
我们如何帮助他们？
Oh, they don't have the skill?
哦，他们没有这个能力吗？
Let's help them build the skills.
让我们帮助他们培养技能。
Makes a lot of sense.
很有道理。
Okay.
好的。
Within this, you have your own course on product management.
其中，您有自己的产品管理课程。
Hari Srinivasan: Well, it's funny.
Hari Srinivasan：嗯，这很有趣。
I'd been thinking about a course for a while, but largely it was this concept of, I wanted to make sure I tried our own product and I understood the instructor pain point.
我考虑一门课程已经有一段时间了，但主要是这样的概念，我想确保我尝试了我们自己的产品并且我理解了讲师的痛点。
But it's a very scary experience.
但这是一次非常可怕的经历。
It's like first, I don't know if I had anything to teach.
就像首先，我不知道我是否有什么可以教的。
My own concerns about that.
我自己对此的担忧。
But about four or five years ago, one of the things we started at PM internally was product university.
但大约四五年前，我们在 PM 内部开始的事情之一是产品大学。
We had our own internal university, which was basically we got some survey, we sent it out.
我们有自己的内部大学，基本上我们得到了一些调查，然后将其发送出去。
I think everyone told us, well, it's literally the most negative one was people said, "I don't have the skills to do my job."
我想每个人都告诉我们，好吧，这实际上是最消极的，人们说，“我没有能力完成我的工作。”
Hari Srinivasan: I remember looking around and I'm like, "Well, it's pretty obvious.
Hari Srinivasan：我记得环顾四周，我想，“嗯，这很明显。
We hired a bunch of people, there's no PM degree, and we've done nothing." What we started doing is internally creating a product university.
我们雇佣了很多人，没有 PM 学位，而且我们什么也没做。”我们开始做的是在内部创建一所产品大学。
It was a bootcamp coming in.
这是一个训练营即将到来。
We tried to get from different models and one of the things we really learned was, you can't teach this just through frameworks.
我们尝试从不同的模型中获取经验，我们真正学到的一件事是，你不能仅通过框架来教授这一点。
You needed to have a series of case studies.
您需要进行一系列案例研究。
You need to have a real series examples.
你需要有一个真实的系列例子。
But luckily, we had a bunch of things we'd done at LinkedIn, so we started putting a curriculum against that.
但幸运的是，我们有很多在 LinkedIn 做过的事情，所以我们开始针对这些事情制定课程。
And then just recently, a few of us got together and we filmed the actual course for it.
就在最近，我们几个人聚在一起，拍摄了实际的课程。
It's basically taking our product university bootcamp and opening it up to the world.
它基本上是把我们的产品大学训练营并向全世界开放。
Lenny: You opened up some of your internal use cases as a part of this course?
Lenny：作为本课程的一部分，您开放了一些内部用例？
Lenny: That's awesome.
莱尼：那太棒了。
I always say that one of the things you don't realize you have as an advantage working at a bigger company is access to tons of strategy documents and vision documents and stories of this.
我总是说，你没有意识到在一家大公司工作的优势之一就是可以访问大量的战略文件、愿景文件和故事。
Because once you're out, no one's going to be able to share those with you because they're so private.
因为一旦你出去了，没有人能够与你分享这些，因为它们是如此私密。
I don't have access to any of these anymore.
我无法再访问这些内容了。
That's a really cool perk if you're working at a company like LinkedIn.
如果你在 LinkedIn 这样的公司工作，那真是一个很酷的福利。
Lenny: Question about your course.
莱尼：关于你的课程的问题。
What are some of your biggest lessons that you teach?
您教过的最重要的课程是什么？
Can you just give a preview of some of the tidbits that you might learn in this course of yours?
您能否预览一下您在本课程中可能学到的一些花絮？
Hari Srinivasan: Well, again, a lot of it is case studies and use cases in the same way we teach it here, but a couple of things that we do talk through.
Hari Srinivasan：嗯，再说一遍，其中很多都是案例研究和用例，就像我们在这里教授的那样，但我们确实讨论了一些事情。
When we started doing our own product university, we realized a couple big pain points that people hit.
当我们开始建立自己的产品大学时，我们意识到人们遇到的几个大痛点。
The first was, it's actually really hard to know how to validate and what the bar is for a new idea in any organization.
首先，实际上很难知道如何在任何组织中验证新想法以及其门槛是什么。
I think it's really hard to say that.
我觉得这真的很难说。
We provide a lot of framework.
我们提供了很多框架。
Simple things from, "Hey, you got to prove to the world why there's duct tape in here." There's someone actually physically going out and trying to do it.
简单的事情，“嘿，你必须向世界证明为什么这里有胶带。”确实有人亲自出去尝试这样做。
Hari Srinivasan: How you can prioritize a list of ideas against a pain point, like how to make a simple expression, and how to look through what's an acute pain point and what's a wide range of people use, how we'd expect data in order to be used in order to validate this.
Hari Srinivasan：如何根据痛点对一系列想法进行优先级排序，例如如何进行简单的表达，以及如何了解什么是急性痛点以及广泛的人们使用什么，我们如何期望使用数据来验证这一点。
Tools you could use to say if this is a good idea or a bad idea.
您可以使用工具来判断这是一个好主意还是一个坏主意。
More importantly tools to make sure you've went through the process and how you can communicate it.
更重要的是，有一些工具可以确保您完成整个流程以及如何进行沟通。
That's one framework set that we talked through.
这是我们讨论过的一套框架。
Hari Srinivasan: The other is a lot about Damian, who leads our growth team.
Hari Srinivasan：另一个是关于领导我们增长团队的达米安 (Damian)。
He comes in and he starts talking a lot about thinking in loops.
他进来后开始谈论很多关于循环思考的事情。
How do you make sure that when you're building something you can have the fuel in order to cascade and grow?
你如何确保当你建造一些东西时，你可以有燃料来级联和成长？
I think just the framework of doing that, how you measure that, how you monitor that, is also something that at least when I was starting and doing my startup, it was quite something I wish I had had access to.
我认为这样做的框架，你如何衡量它，你如何监控它，也是至少在我开始和做我的初创公司时，我非常希望能够访问的东西。
Those are maybe two good examples of frameworks and tools that we come through.
这些可能是我们所经历的框架和工具的两个很好的例子。
Hari Srinivasan: And then of course, trying to overlay that with real cases.
Hari Srinivasan：当然，尝试将其与真实案例相结合。
Not always successful ones, of course, too.
当然，也并非总是成功。
We talk about a lot of the failures we've had and where we probably went wrong if we had to diagnose them in postmortem.
我们谈论了我们遇到的很多失败，以及如果我们必须在事后进行诊断的话，我们可能会在哪里出错。
Lenny: A lot of the people listening to this are people that want to get into product management and aren't PMs yet.
Lenny：很多听这个的人都是想进入产品管理领域的人，但还不是产品经理。
I imagine you get asked this a lot, how do I get into product management?
我想你经常被问到这个问题，我如何进入产品管理？
What is your advice that you often give?
您经常给出的建议是什么？
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
Well, let's start with how we look at the world, which is this idea of skills.
好吧，让我们从我们如何看待世界开始，这就是技能的概念。
We have a diagram that I think about, which is skills are on a triangle.
我想到了一个图表，技能位于三角形上。
You might have heard this one before.
您以前可能听说过这个。
I don't know if you have.
我不知道你有没有。
Skills are on a triangle, and I think you need three different skills to be a great PM.
技能呈三角形，我认为你需要三种不同的技能才能成为一名出色的产品经理。
You need to be a Steven Spielberg type creator.
你需要成为史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格式的创作者。
Something around data science and the ability to really look at data and see patterns and then see the future.
围绕数据科学的一些东西，以及真正查看数据、看到模式、然后看到未来的能力。
And then especially get more senior.
然后特别是变得更高级。
I think it's a lot of general management.
我认为这是很多综合管理的内容。
You have to basically be able to shine and innovate across the team, understand the budget, understand how companies differently work.
你必须基本上能够在整个团队中表现出色并进行创新，了解预算，了解公司如何以不同的方式运作。
Hari Srinivasan: I've actually never seen a great PM who's in the center of it.
Hari Srinivasan：实际上，我从未见过一位处于其中的伟大总理。
I find the great PMs live on the edges.
我发现伟大的产品经理都处于边缘状态。
There's always someone who's this exceptional data scientist and the ability to maybe be a great GM and lead and inspire, or maybe someone who's so creative, who can lead a team in a different way.
总有一些人是杰出的数据科学家，并且有能力成为一名出色的总经理，具有领导力和启发性，或者可能是一个非常有创造力的人，可以以不同的方式领导团队。
I think that one thing I would really, really encourage people to do is understand where they fit on that graph and gravitate towards those kinds of roles.
我认为我真正、真正鼓励人们做的一件事就是了解他们在图表中的位置，并倾向于这些类型的角色。
Because a lot of times, I think what people do is they think they have to make up for the other pieces of that graph, and it leads them to a path where maybe they're not playing to their strengths.
因为很多时候，我认为人们所做的就是他们认为自己必须弥补该图表的其他部分，这会导致他们走上一条可能没有发挥自己优势的道路。
That's one thing I always encourage people.
这是我总是鼓励人们的一件事。
Hari Srinivasan: The other thing I would say, and I know it's a little bit of luck in how this works, but I think about my journey, one thing I've really found was really helpful is, I was on the first team that did a hybrid SUV in the US.
Hari Srinivasan：我要说的另一件事是，我知道这有点运气，但我想想我的旅程，我真正发现的一件事确实很有帮助，那就是，我是第一个在美国制造混合动力 SUV 的团队的成员。
At the time, it was the Hybrid Escape at Ford.
当时，它是福特的 Hybrid Escape。
I came from the Midwest and it was one of those products where people would really drive out for hundreds of miles and see, and really a community gravitated around because it was a very special product.
我来自中西部，这是人们真正会开车数百英里才能看到的产品之一，并且确实有一个社区被吸引，因为它是一种非常特殊的产品。
Being able to work on something that people loved, really loved early on, and see what that felt like and look like and that success was, it created a bar for what I would hope my products could do.
能够从事人们喜欢的、真正喜欢的事情，并看到它的感觉和外观以及成功是什么，这为我希望我的产品能够实现的目标创造了一个标准。
It would.
会的。
Hari Srinivasan: If you're able to get into something that people really love and feel that and experience that, and really understand what that looks like and what it takes to get there, I think that's actually been a really valuable lesson throughout my career because you can understand the whole path on the way up.
Hari Srinivasan：如果你能够进入人们真正喜欢的东西，感受到它并体验它，并真正理解它是什么样子以及实现它需要什么，我认为这实际上是我整个职业生涯中非常有价值的一课，因为你可以理解整个上升的道路。
I look back at that as really something that I would hope other people if they can do it.
回想起来，我真的希望其他人也能做到这一点。
I know you're making world decisions on many different criteria, but try to find something people love and really experience what that feels like.
我知道你正在根据许多不同的标准做出世界决策，但尝试找到人们喜欢的东西并真正体验那种感觉。
Lenny: To build on that, with PMs that work for you and work with you, when they're looking to get better and build their skills, other than go take some courses on LinkedIn Learning, what do you often recommend they do to help become stronger and better at their job?
Lenny：在此基础上，对于为你工作并与你一起工作的 PM，当他们希望变得更好并培养自己的技能时，除了参加 LinkedIn Learning 上的一些课程之外，你经常建议他们做什么来帮助他们在工作中变得更强大、更好？
Hari Srinivasan: First, it is that feeling of, you got to own your product and you got to speak up and say this is where I want to drive it.
Hari Srinivasan：首先，这是一种感觉，你必须拥有你的产品，你必须大声说这就是我想要推动它的地方。
Because a lot of times I think people are scared to do that, or worried about doing that, or don't feel that's their actual role.
因为很多时候我认为人们害怕这样做，或者担心这样做，或者觉得这不是他们的实际角色。
One, it's extreme clarity on hey this is your role.
第一，这是非常明确的，嘿，这是你的角色。
It's to own this and take this to the next level.
就是要拥有这个并将其提升到一个新的水平。
When you start molding the clay, people want to come and help.
当你开始塑造粘土时，人们会想要过来帮忙。
When you start building something cool, people are like, "Oh." They're gravitated to it.
当你开始构建一些很酷的东西时，人们会说，“哦。”他们被它所吸引。
But until you can start doing that, that's really tough.
但在你开始这样做之前，这真的很困难。
One, it's letting people know that's what's expected of them.
第一，它让人们知道这就是对他们的期望。
Hari Srinivasan: And then two, I would tell people to just build.
Hari Srinivasan：然后第二点，我会告诉人们只管建造。
As crazy as it sounds, I spend a lot of my time on the side, just trying to build different things.
尽管听起来很疯狂，但我花了很多时间在业余时间，只是尝试构建不同的东西。
Try different clay, think through different ideas.
尝试不同的粘土，思考不同的想法。
I think that is a really important skill to have, to just being able to say, "Okay, I'm going to start with a blank sheet and make some art," or whatever it is you want to do.
我认为这是一项非常重要的技能，能够说，“好吧，我将从一张白纸开始，创作一些艺术品”，或者任何你想做的事情。
I encourage people to do that because it's a muscle, like anything else.
我鼓励人们这样做，因为它和其他任何东西一样，都是肌肉。
It can atrophy.
它可以萎缩。
I really do think no matter what the heart of PM, in is that ability to be a builder, and you do got to make sure you can keep doing it.
我确实认为，无论 PM 的核心是什么，都在于成为一名建设者的能力，而且你必须确保你能够继续这样做。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
That's actually a great segue to where I was going to go next, which is, you say you build and you like to build stuff, but you're legitimately building a lot of stuff.
这实际上是我下一步要去的地方的一个很好的延续，也就是说，你说你构建并且你喜欢构建东西，但你合法地构建了很多东西。
You have the site, mindofhari.com, where you share all these side projects.
你有一个网站，mindofhari.com，你可以在其中分享所有这些副业项目。
Can you just talk about what's going on there and some of the stuff that you've built?
您能谈谈那里正在发生的事情以及您已经构建的一些东西吗？
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
Arguably, the only thing I've ever been good at in my life is just building things and creating things.
可以说，我一生中唯一擅长的事情就是建造事物和创造事物。
I get a lot of energy from it.
我从中得到很多能量。
Yeah, I have a site.
是的，我有一个网站。
It's called Mind of Hari because it is really whatever's top of mind.
它被称为“哈里之心”，因为它确实是最重要的。
I try to do my best to completely separate it from business.
我尽力将其与业务彻底分开。
I know there's always a draw as a good PM to say, is there a business here?
我知道，作为一名优秀的产品经理，总是会说“这里有生意吗？”。
But I try to keep it as art.
但我试图将其保留为艺术。
It's completely art and it's what I want to build.
这完全是艺术，这就是我想要建造的。
I take on new subjects.
我接受新的科目。
I have two little kids and it's fun to ...
我有两个小孩，很有趣...
One of them was a book me and my oldest wrote, and it was a set of bedtime stories we did.
其中一本是我和我最大的孩子写的一本书，这是我们写的一套睡前故事。
And then one day I was like, "Hey, we should just make this a notebook." And we did it.
然后有一天我想，“嘿，我们应该把它做成一本笔记本。”我们做到了。
I think it's got about half-a-million readers now.
我认为它现在大约有五十万读者。
It's been fun to see it take some life and go through.
看到它需要一些生命并经历它是很有趣的。
Hari Srinivasan: We made a board game recently that I know Stanford Design School or some professors there have been using, and it was called Parallel Universe.
Hari Srinivasan：我们最近制作了一款棋盘游戏，我知道斯坦福设计学院或那里的一些教授一直在使用它，它被称为平行宇宙。
It's, how do you have a card and then be able to see maybe the card says there's no windows in this world anymore, and then what would happen in that world?
就是，你如何拥有一张卡片，然后能够看到，也许卡片上写着这个世界不再有窗户，然后那个世界会发生什么？
You got to list 10 different things that would happen.
你必须列出 10 种可能发生的不同事情。
That ability to think ahead, the fun sci-fi stuff.
超前思考的能力，有趣的科幻小说。
I make healthy gummy bears.
我制作健康的小熊软糖。
I just try to take something completely new and have that.
我只是尝试接受一些全新的东西并拥有它。
I don't know, it's probably one of the more fun moments in this world where you can sit there and just create something and have some new clay.
我不知道，这可能是这个世界上最有趣的时刻之一，你可以坐在那里创造一些东西并拥有一些新的粘土。
Yeah, that is what that website is about.
是的，这就是该网站的内容。
Lenny: Wait, so you made actual gummy bears?
莱尼：等等，所以你真的做了小熊软糖？
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah, we are doing something with gummy bears.
Hari Srinivasan：是的，我们正在用小熊软糖做一些事情。
Lenny, I know you're expecting a new addition.
莱尼，我知道你正在期待新成员。
Congratulations, again.
再次恭喜。
But one of the things I found when I had kids is, no matter what I was trying to do, there was candy and sugar everywhere like any Halloween, any birthday party, et cetera.
但当我有孩子时我发现的一件事是，无论我想做什么，到处都有糖果和糖，就像任何万圣节、任何生日聚会等等。
You can't get rid of it because it was just hard to do.
你无法摆脱它，因为它很难做到。
So we were like, hey, we're going to sit down and make our own gummy bear.
所以我们就像，嘿，我们要坐下来制作我们自己的小熊软糖。
What I found is, this is just a fun tidbit for your readers, if you open a Twizzler or one of those, about 80% of what's in there is sugar because they're optimizing for shelf life.
我发现，这对读者来说只是一个有趣的花絮，如果你打开 Twizzler 或其中一个，里面大约 80% 的东西是糖，因为它们正在优化保质期。
They're optimizing for what's in the store.
他们正在针对商店中的商品进行优化。
Hari Srinivasan: What we were able to do is basically create a gummy bear.
Hari Srinivasan：我们能做的基本上就是制作一个小熊软糖。
About 40% of it is sugar.
其中约40%是糖。
It's just got five ingredients.
它只有五种成分。
Honey is the sweetener because I don't want to give my kids some alternative sweeteners.
蜂蜜是甜味剂，因为我不想给我的孩子一些替代甜味剂。
But we have a small commercial kitchen and we produce some gummy bears.
但我们有一个小型商业厨房，我们生产一些小熊软糖。
If you ever want to try them, to any of your followers, I'm happy to send some gummy bears and hopefully you can check them out.
如果您想尝试一下，我很乐意向您的任何关注者发送一些小熊软糖，希望您能检查一下。
Lenny: Wait, is there a way to buy them somewhere?
莱尼：等等，有什么办法可以买到它们吗？
Hari Srinivasan: Well, you can go to Mind of Hari.
Hari Srinivasan：嗯，你可以去 Mind of Hari。
We stock them seasonally.
我们按季节库存。
One of the things that we found out is there is different laws on how they can be shipped, and obviously we're not optimizing for long storage.
我们发现的一件事是，关于如何运输它们有不同的法律，显然我们没有针对长期存储进行优化。
But they'll be on Mind of Hari.
但他们会出现在《哈里的心》上。
You can always reach out to me and I'll find you and tell you which farmer's market we're at or whatever and you can come swing by.
您可以随时联系我，我会找到您并告诉您我们在哪个农贸市场或其他什么地方，您可以顺便过来。
Lenny: Well, I don't see it on Mind of Hari, so maybe by the time this comes out, put it on here.
莱尼：嗯，我在《哈里的心》中没有看到它，所以也许当它出来时，把它放在这里。
Or if you're trying to-
或者如果你想-
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah, it's on the homepage.
Hari Srinivasan：是的，在主页上。
And then when they're stock, we put them in the shop.
然后当它们有货时，我们就把它们放在商店里。
Lenny: Okay.
莱尼：好的。
That means they're out of stock?
那意思就是没货了？
All right, we're going to sell you out.
好吧，我们要把你出卖。
Let's get all your gummy bears.
让我们把所有的小熊软糖都拿出来吧。
With that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round.
至此，我们进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。
Are you ready?
你准备好了吗？
Lenny: What are two or three books you've recommended most to other people?
莱尼：你向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？
Hari Srinivasan: The first one is called Thinking in Systems.
Hari Srinivasan：第一个叫做“系统思考”。
It's the one I give the team every now and then.
这是我时不时给团队的。
It's just a really good book about how I think sometimes people see systems.
这是一本关于我有时认为人们如何看待系统的非常好的书。
Can we talk about it?
我们可以谈谈吗？
It could be abstract.
它可能是抽象的。
I think it goes into real detail on how people can intervene at various parts and how to take actions at different systems.
我认为它详细介绍了人们如何干预各个部分以及如何在不同系统上采取行动。
I really enjoy that book.
我真的很喜欢那本书。
Hari Srinivasan: Not directly maybe a book I recommend, but a book that I just read that I thought was phenomenal, just to give it to readers if they want something good, it's called Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow.
Hari Srinivasan：也许不是我直接推荐的一本书，而是我刚刚读过的一本我认为非常出色的书，只是为了给那些想要好东西的读者，它的名字叫《明天》、《明天》、《明天》。
It was recommending by a friend.
是朋友推荐的。
Have you read it?
你读过吗？
You read it?
你读过吗？
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
I honestly didn't love it, but I liked it a lot.
老实说我不喜欢它，但我非常喜欢它。
Hari Srinivasan: I thought it was very well done and there's a couple chapters I reflected on.
Hari Srinivasan：我认为它做得非常好，并且有几章我进行了反思。
I just finished it.
我刚刚做完。
I thought it was well done.
我认为做得很好。
That's one that I'll throw out there.
那是我要扔掉的一个。
Lenny: Yeah, it was very sweet.
莱尼：是的，非常甜蜜。
I feel like it got hyped too much for me.
我觉得它对我来说被炒作太多了。
I'm like, okay.
我想，好吧。
Hari Srinivasan: Oh, I didn't actually know it got-
Hari Srinivasan：哦，我实际上不知道它得到了-
Hari Srinivasan: ...
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：...
much publicity.
大量宣传。
Okay, that's it.
好吧，就是这样。
The third one that I just downloaded because I finished it, I'm actually going to open up my audiobook and tell you because I'm about, I don't know, an hour into and I'm really enjoying it, it is An Immense World.
我刚刚下载的第三本书是因为我完成了它，我实际上要打开我的有声读物并告诉你，因为我不知道，一小时后我真的很喜欢它，这是一个巨大的世界。
I don't know if you've read that one yet.
我不知道你是否读过那一篇。
It is about animals and how animals have different senses out there.
这是关于动物以及动物如何具有不同的感官。
It goes through a set of different animals and how they see the world.
它讲述了一系列不同的动物以及它们如何看待世界。
Hari Srinivasan: Just one of those reminders that we're so limited sometimes in our own perception and how dogs, for instance, they can breathe in and take in sense even when they're breathing out.
Hari Srinivasan：这只是提醒我们，有时我们自己的感知是如此有限，例如狗如何吸气并吸收感觉，即使它们在呼气时也是如此。
It's like vision almost, and it's just phenomenal to me just to think about all the things they're probably sensing as my dog and I are going on our walk.
这几乎就像视觉一样，当我和我的狗散步时，想到它们可能感受到的所有事情，这对我来说是惊人的。
Lenny: I've learned dogs shoot air out of their nose first before they smell, to clear things out.
莱尼：我知道狗在闻气味之前先从鼻子里喷出空气，以清除东西。
Hari Srinivasan: Isn't that wild?
Hari Srinivasan：这不是很疯狂吗？
They can probably see so much more of what happened in the history of a little walk than we're able to just because of that.
仅仅因为这一点，他们可能比我们能够看到更多的历史上发生的事情。
Lenny: Incredible.
莱尼：难以置信。
Next question.
下一个问题。
What is a favorite recent movie or TV show?
最近最喜欢的电影或电视节目是什么？
Hari Srinivasan: One thing we try to do is watch TV as a family.
Hari Srinivasan：我们尝试做的一件事是全家一起看电视。
It brings us together a little bit.
它让我们稍微聚在一起。
We are doing Star Wars with the kids, which is for the first time, which has been a really enjoyable experience, just being able to witness it through them.
我们正在和孩子们一起观看《星球大战》，这是第一次，这是一次非常愉快的经历，只是能够通过他们见证它。
And then we've been going a little bit back in time.
然后我们就回到了过去。
We watched ET.
我们看了《ET》。
It's fun.
很有趣。
It jogs your memory.
它会唤起你的记忆。
These are phenomenal movies that we go through.
这些都是我们看过的非凡电影。
I think your question is on recent TV shows that probably came out more recently.
我认为你的问题是关于最近播出的电视节目。
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
The other one I did like, it's not a TV show but I ...
另一个我确实喜欢的，这不是电视节目，但我......
God, what was it called?
天哪，那叫什么？
It was that podcast that came out.
就是那个播客出来了。
Case 63 I think it was called?
案例 63 我想它叫什么？
Anyways, I hope that's the right name of it.
无论如何，我希望这是正确的名字。
But it was a sci-fi podcast.
但这是一个科幻播客。
It was like 10-minute shorts.
这就像 10 分钟的短片。
The premise of it is someone comes from the future and there's a little bit of speculative fiction and is at a psychologist.
它的前提是某人来自未来，有一点推理小说，并且是一位心理学家。
It's just a phenomenal piece.
这真是一件了不起的作品。
I'll have to get you the real name.
我得告诉你真实姓名。
Maybe I can get it for you after for the show notes or whatever.
也许我可以在演出笔记或其他什么之后给你拿到它。
Lenny: Yeah, we'll edit your words and add that-
莱尼：是的，我们会编辑你的话并添加-
Lenny: ...
莱尼：……
whatever's in the show notes, that's the one you meant.
无论演出笔记中写什么，这就是您的意思。
What is a favorite interview question you like to ask?
您最喜欢问的面试问题是什么？
Hari Srinivasan: I do like to ask people what the most complex thing they ever built was.
Hari Srinivasan：我确实喜欢问人们他们建造过的最复杂的东西是什么。
I just love to understand mostly, what do they gravitate to?
我只是想了解，他们倾向于什么？
Is there something you gravitate to?
有什么东西让你着迷吗？
And two, are they able to simplify it?
第二，他们能够简化它吗？
I think those are two really important skills.
我认为这是两项非常重要的技能。
Lenny: What is it that you look for in their answer that tells you it was a good answer?
莱尼：您在他们的答案中寻找什么来告诉您这是一个很好的答案？
Hari Srinivasan: Both of those things.
Hari Srinivasan：这两件事。
First, did they take on something that was super complex, really, really hard?
首先，他们是否承担了一些非常复杂、非常非常困难的事情？
Because I think there's only a particular group of people who gravitate to those kinds of problems.
因为我认为只有一群特定的人会被这些问题所吸引。
I do think more and more openly.
我确实越来越开放地思考。
I think that's a lot of, in my opinion, the ways the world is going to get better by the things that are really, really hard to solve.
我认为，在我看来，通过解决非常非常难以解决的问题，世界可以变得更好。
Intimacy doesn't scale.
亲密关系无法扩展。
When you think about how people are going to feel more connected, it's going to be a lot more difficult to solve.
当你想到人们如何感觉更紧密的联系时，解决这个问题就会变得更加困难。
When you think about healthcare, it's going to be very, very difficult to solve.
当你想到医疗保健时，它会非常非常难以解决。
Education is a very difficult interconnected space.
教育是一个非常困难的相互关联的空间。
I think people who gravitate to that, know those problems are hard, have a very special gift.
我认为那些对此感兴趣、知道这些问题很难解决的人拥有非常特殊的天赋。
It's hard to replicate that passion.
这种热情很难复制。
So one, did you do that?
那么，你这样做了吗？
Hari Srinivasan: And then two, I think people who really understand systems are able to, somehow this is truly, especially people probably way smarter than me, they're able to simplify it.
Hari Srinivasan：然后，我认为真正了解系统的人能够以某种方式做到这一点，尤其是那些可能比我聪明得多的人，他们能够简化它。
They're able to explain it and say, "This is how I looked at it, but here's how I modeled it.
他们能够解释它并说：“这就是我看待它的方式，但这是我建模它的方式。
Here's the lovers and how I went after it." Even if it's nonlinear, they're able to say, "This is how the cause and effects works." I'm really looking for once you did it, did you really understand and were you able to crack it?
这是恋人以及我是如何追求的。”即使它是非线性的，他们也能说：“这就是因果关系的运作方式。”我真的在寻找一旦你做到了，你真的理解并且能够破解它吗？
Or at least, did you understand why you weren't able to crack it?
或者至少，你明白为什么你无法破解它吗？
I usually find this to be also the most rewarding conversations.
我通常发现这也是最有价值的对话。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
Thanks for sharing all that.
感谢您分享这一切。
Lenny: Next question.
莱尼：下一个问题。
What is a favorite recent product that you've discovered that you love?
您最近发现自己喜欢的最喜欢的产品是什么？
Hari Srinivasan: I'll give you one more dad one.
Hari Srinivasan：爸爸，我再给你一张。
My youngest just hates brushing his teeth.
我最小的孩子就是不喜欢刷牙。
Just was like, it was always a thing.
就像，这总是一件事。
I should actually find the name of the toothbrush, but you can just Google or Amazon this and you'll figure it out.
我实际上应该找到牙刷的名称，但你只需谷歌或亚马逊就可以找到它。
Basically, it's like it was this Baby Shark toothbrush, but it's a game.
基本上，它就像是小鲨鱼牙刷，但它是一个游戏。
You play that game for two minutes and you can try to pick up different prizes, you brush your teeth.
你玩这个游戏两分钟，你可以尝试拿起不同的奖品，你刷牙。
Hari Srinivasan: What I loved about it, because I think it's what all great products do, it turns a moment of annoyance to a moment of joy.
Hari Srinivasan：我之所以喜欢它，是因为我认为这就是所有伟大产品的作用，它将烦恼的时刻变成欢乐的时刻。
It went not even just like you solved a pain point.
它甚至不像你解决了一个痛点那样。
It was an unreasonable experience of like now he loves it.
这是一种不合理的经历，就像现在他喜欢它一样。
It was just so well done.
做得太好了。
It's like 10 bucks, and it was 10 bucks extremely well spent.
好像是10块钱，这10块钱花得非常值。
So much delight.
太高兴了。
Whoever made that toothbrush, thank you.
谁做的牙刷，谢谢。
Lenny: Damn.
莱尼：该死。
Is it playing Baby Shark?
是在玩鲨鱼宝宝吗？
I hope not.
我希望不会。
Hari Srinivasan: Well, it can.
Hari Srinivasan：嗯，可以。
It has that feature.
它有这个功能。
It has that capability, but it is a small price to pay for me to get out to enjoy.
它具有这种能力，但对于我来说，出去享受它只是一个很小的代价。
Lenny: Good times.
莱尼：美好时光。
What's something relatively minor that you've changed in your product development process that has had a big impact on your team's ability to execute?
您在产品开发过程中进行了哪些相对较小的更改，但对您团队的执行能力产生了重大影响？
Hari Srinivasan: I do like to change things relatively.
Hari Srinivasan：我确实喜欢相对地改变一些事情。
Every quarter or six months, sit down and say, what can we get better at?
每个季度或六个月，坐下来想想，我们可以在哪些方面做得更好？
The two areas I find myself innovating, if you will, innovating or tweaking the most, one is around planning.
我发现自己创新的两个领域，如果你愿意的话，创新或调整最多的领域是围绕规划。
I think every company struggles with this.
我认为每个公司都在努力解决这个问题。
You get bigger, it probably becomes a more different ...
你变大了，它可能会变得更加不同......
especially when we talked about the complexity of the ecosystem.
尤其是当我们谈论生态系统的复杂性时。
We started this thing where just basically we call it orange and red priorities.
我们开始做这件事，基本上我们称之为橙色和红色优先级。
Which is, then a lot of times what people do is, teams will plan bottom-up.
也就是说，很多时候人们所做的是，团队会自下而上地进行计划。
Hari Srinivasan: They'll come into a manager or a leader and then the leader may shift things around or say, this is what ...
Hari Srinivasan：他们会成为经理或领导者，然后领导者可能会改变事情，或者说，这就是......
I think we've really started shifting it in a different way.
我认为我们确实已经开始以不同的方式改变它。
We said, these are the big rocks we got to get done.
我们说，这些是我们必须完成的大石头。
We're going to get those things done first.
我们将首先完成这些事情。
We're going to be upfront and honest with you, and these are the things and these are price.
我们将坦诚地告诉您，这些就是东西，这些就是价格。
And then you can plan from there.
然后你就可以从那里开始计划。
I think it's relieved a lot of the progress.
我认为这让我们松了一口气。
I think there's an honesty that comes within and that's been a big change.
我认为内心有一种诚实，这是一个很大的变化。
Hari Srinivasan: The others just are the way we review products.
Hari Srinivasan：其他只是我们审查产品的方式。
That's always been a thing.
这一直是一件事。
My read is, when we keep our product review process live too long, it gets a little institutionalized and people start making long documents and stuff.
我的理解是，当我们的产品审查流程持续太久时，它就会变得有点制度化，人们开始制作长文档和东西。
You always have to change that every quarter.
每个季度你都必须改变这一点。
Basically, I think it always comes down to the same thing, which is, how do you get their problem statement quickly?
基本上，我认为这总是归结为同一件事，即如何快速获得他们的问题陈述？
And then how do you design from there?
然后你如何从那里进行设计？
But the lever that we basically put in place for that was to really shorten the time.
但我们基本上为此采取的手段是真正缩短时间。
Hari Srinivasan: I'm trying this thing, I don't know if it's going to work.
Hari Srinivasan：我正在尝试这个东西，我不知道它是否会起作用。
But could we get to 15-minute reviews basically instead of an hour and see if that alleviates some of this?
但我们是否可以基本上进行 15 分钟而不是一个小时的评论，看看这是否可以缓解一些问题？
I'll let you know how it goes when we chat up next, but I'm very curious to see if this is going to be a different kind of system where we might be able to get to clarity quicker, or realize we're not at clarity and then break and come back.
当我们接下来聊天时，我会让你知道事情进展如何，但我很好奇这是否会是一种不同的系统，我们可以更快地弄清楚，或者意识到我们还不清楚，然后中断并回来。
Lenny: Reminds me of a tweet I think I just saw.
莱尼：让我想起我刚刚看到的一条推文。
Maybe it was an Instagram post of teams that do stand-ups while doing a plank, to keep the meeting really short.
也许这是 Instagram 上的一条帖子，内容是团队一边做平板支撑，一边做站立会议，以保持会议简短。
Hari Srinivasan: I haven't tried that one yet, but it might be something we try next.
Hari Srinivasan：我还没有尝试过，但这可能是我们下一步尝试的事情。
Lenny: Last question.
莱尼：最后一个问题。
You've been at LinkedIn for a long time.
您在 LinkedIn 已经工作很长时间了。
I imagine you use LinkedIn a lot.
我想您经常使用 LinkedIn。
Is there just a pro tip that you can share of how to be more successful with LinkedIn, find more value in LinkedIn, enjoy it more?
您是否可以分享一个专业技巧，告诉您如何利用 LinkedIn 取得更大成功、如何在 LinkedIn 中发现更多价值、如何更好地享受它？
Hari Srinivasan: The first is, I do think certainly there's ways, and the majority of ways that skills work is we infer skills.
Hari Srinivasan：首先，我确实认为肯定有办法，而技能发挥作用的大多数方式是我们推断技能。
But I think that there is a skills section on the profile.
但我认为个人资料中有一个技能部分。
I think a lot of people ignore it because they don't realize that there's value in it.
我认为很多人忽视它是因为他们没有意识到它的价值。
That's changing, but I'm not sure if it's changing for everybody.
这种情况正在改变，但我不确定是否每个人都会改变。
I would pay more attention to skills as we get more into the skills-first stuff.
当我们更多地关注技能优先的东西时，我会更加关注技能。
Hari Srinivasan: The second thing I would probably do, I don't know if it's that hidden, but I would check out LinkedIn Learning.
Hari Srinivasan：我可能会做的第二件事，我不知道它是否那么隐藏，但我会查看 LinkedIn Learning。
I do think LinkedIn Learning is a gem.
我确实认为 LinkedIn Learning 是一颗宝石。
I think because it's sold largely through enterprises, a lot of people miss it.
我想因为它主要是通过企业来销售的，所以很多人都错过了它。
I would hope you check it out.
我希望你检查一下。
But more importantly, tell me areas that we could get better on there as well.
但更重要的是，告诉我我们还可以在哪些方面做得更好。
I hope that people will find value there.
我希望人们能在那里找到价值。
Lenny: What's the best way to find out about LinkedIn Learning?
Lenny：了解 LinkedIn 学习的最佳方式是什么？
They just Google LinkedIn Learning and they'll find the-
他们只需 Google LinkedIn Learning，就会发现——
Hari Srinivasan: Yeah.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：是的。
Or go to LinkedIn/learning.
或者访问 LinkedIn/学习。
Yeah.
是的。
Lenny: Linkedin.com/learning?
莱尼：Linkedin.com/learning？
Okay.
好的。
Great.
伟大的。
Hari, I feel like we've opened the Mind of Hari up on this podcast.
Hari，我觉得我们已经在这个播客上打开了 Hari 的心灵。
I appreciate you being here.
我很感激你能来这里。
Two final questions.
最后两个问题。
Where can folks find you online if they want to reach out, and how can listeners be useful to you?
如果人们想要联系您，可以在哪里找到您？听众如何对您有用？
Hari Srinivasan: Well, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Hari Srinivasan：嗯，你可以在 LinkedIn 上找到我。
That's an easy one.
这是一件容易的事。
I do really, really, really appreciate product feedback.
我真的非常非常感谢产品反馈。
I promise you I take it well, for those listening.
我向你们保证，对于那些倾听的人，我会好好接受。
And two, going back to the heart of this conversation around complexity, it is really hard to know sometimes what everyone's experience is because you're living in a very abstracted ecosystem.
第二，回到关于复杂性的对话的核心，有时真的很难知道每个人的经历是什么，因为你生活在一个非常抽象的生态系统中。
The more you could just say, hey, this is working or not, and the intentions are coming from a good place, and if you have a moment and you're not having a great experience, or you are having a great experience, you could write it.
你越多可以说，嘿，这是否有效，并且意图来自一个好地方，如果你有时间并且没有获得很棒的体验，或者你正在拥有很棒的体验，你可以写下来。
I really would appreciate to hear your perspective.
我真的很高兴听到您的观点。
Lenny: Amazing.
莱尼：太棒了。
Hari, thank you so much for being here.
哈里，非常感谢你来到这里。
Hari Srinivasan: Thanks, Lenny.
哈里·斯里尼瓦桑： 谢谢，莱尼。
It's great meeting you.
很高兴认识你。
You, too.
你也是。
Bye, everyone.: Thank you so much for listening.
再见，大家：非常感谢您的聆听。
If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。
Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review, as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.
另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。
You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.
您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。
See you in the next episode.
下一集见。