How to break out of autopilot and create the life you want | Graham Weaver (Stanford GSB professor)
Lenny Rachitsky: You are ostensibly a professor at Stanford Graduate School of Business, and you shared that when people come ask you for advice, the most common question you get is, "What should I do with my life?"
莱尼·拉奇茨基：您表面上是斯坦福大学商学院的教授，您分享说，当人们向您寻求建议时，您得到的最常见的问题是“我的生活应该做什么？”
Graham Weaver: Imagine that you're walking home from work, you see this bright, shiny object, and you realize it's a magic lamp.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：想象一下，你下班回家，看到这个明亮、闪亮的物体，然后你意识到它是一盏神灯。
And you rub the lamp and this genie comes out and the genie says, "Hey, I can give you one wish.
你擦一擦灯，这个精灵就出来了，精灵说：“嘿，我可以实现你一个愿望。
Whatever you throw yourself into with your whole life and your career, it's going to turn out great." If that were true and you had that genie, what would you wish for?
无论你把自己的一生和事业投入到什么事情中，结果都会很棒。”如果这是真的并且你有那个精灵，你会许什么愿？
At some point in this one life we get, you want to get yourself on that path of that journey.
在我们这一生的某个时刻，你想让自己走上那段旅程的那条路。
Lenny Rachitsky: This whole exercise connects to something that you're a big advocate of, this idea of getting out of autopilot mode in your life.
Lenny Rachitsky：这整个练习与您大力提倡的东西有关，即摆脱生活中的自动驾驶模式的想法。
Graham Weaver: You're unconscious, and you may not even realize why you're doing what you're doing or even realize what you're doing.
Graham Weaver：你是无意识的，你甚至可能没有意识到你为什么要做你正在做的事情，甚至没有意识到你在做什么。
So for example, I get up, work out, drive into work, fight traffic, commute, maybe I return some emails, fight traffic on the way home, rush through dinner, go to bed.
举个例子，我起床、锻炼、开车上班、与交通堵塞、通勤，也许我会回复一些电子邮件、在回家的路上与交通堵塞、匆匆吃完晚饭、上床睡觉。
It's not a day that is intentional.
这不是故意的一天。
It's not a day where I've said, "Where do I want to be going with my life?
这一天我不会说：“我的人生想去哪里？
What's important to me in this world?"
在这个世界上，什么对我来说是重要的？”
Lenny Rachitsky: You another quote, which is, "Everything that you want is on the other side of worse first."
莱尼·拉奇茨基（Lenny Rachitsky）：你又引用了一句话，那就是“你想要的一切都首先在更糟糕的另一边。”
Graham Weaver: Pick anything.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：选择任何东西。
You want a better body?
你想要更好的身体吗？
Okay, you're going to need to go to the gym.
好吧，你需要去健身房。
When you go to the gym the first few times, it's going to not be that fun.
当你最初几次去健身房时，它不会那么有趣。
The first move is negative.
第一步是消极的。
If I'm optimizing for tomorrow and I just want to have a great day tomorrow, I'm going to stay exactly where I am.
如果我正在为明天进行优化并且我只想明天过得愉快，那么我就会留在原地。
So many people I see have this happen, where they hit a plateau and they never move past it, because they're not willing to have that hard day, month, week, year.
我看到很多人都经历过这种情况，他们遇到了一个平台期，却永远无法超越它，因为他们不愿意经历那艰难的一天、一个月、一周、一年。
Lenny Rachitsky: When should you quit something, because some things are just not worth it.
Lenny Rachitsky：你什么时候应该放弃某件事，因为有些事情根本不值得。
Graham Weaver: I think the time to quit is when you can no longer ...
格雷厄姆·韦弗（Graham Weaver）：我认为戒烟的时间是当你不能再......
Lenny Rachitsky: Today, my guest is Graham Weaver.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：今天，我的客人是格雷厄姆·韦弗。
Graham teaches a top-rated course at Stanford's Graduate School of Business, a course which is technically called Managing Growing Enterprises.
格雷厄姆在斯坦福大学商学院教授一门顶级课程，该课程技术上称为“管理成长型企业”。
But as you'll hear in our conversation, he ends up mostly helping students figure out what to do with their lives and how to get out of the autopilot mode that most people are in.
但正如你在我们的谈话中听到的那样，他最终主要是帮助学生弄清楚他们的生活应该做什么，以及如何摆脱大多数人所处的自动驾驶模式。
He recently won Stanford Graduate Business School's 2024 MBA Distinguished Teaching Award.
他最近荣获斯坦福大学商学院 2024 年 MBA 杰出教学奖。
And teaching is actually his side gig.
教学实际上是他的副业。
His full-time job is founder and CEO of Alpine Investors, a private equity firm, which based on my research, is one of if not the top-performing private equity fund in the world.
他的全职工作是 Alpine Investors 的创始人兼首席执行官，这是一家私募股权公司，根据我的研究，该公司即使不是世界上表现最好的私募股权基金，也是其中之一。
So the advice you're going to hear today is coming from someone who is actually doing the thing, not just teaching the thing.
所以你今天听到的建议来自于那些真正在做这件事的人，而不仅仅是教这件事的人。
Lenny Rachitsky: In our conversation, we cover practical exercises that can help you figure out what you should do with your life, including something he calls the genie framework and the nine lives exercise.
Lenny Rachitsky：在我们的谈话中，我们介绍了一些实用练习，可以帮助你弄清楚你的生活应该做什么，包括他所谓的精灵框架和九命练习。
We talk about why life is suffering, and you may as well choose something worth suffering for, also, why most things in life that are worthwhile take more time than you expect, some practical advice for creating accountability in your life to help you achieve your goals, and so much more.
我们谈论为什么生活是痛苦的，你不妨选择一些值得痛苦的事情，为什么生活中大多数有价值的事情比你预期的要花更多的时间，一些在你的生活中建立责任感以帮助你实现目标的实用建议，等等。
Lenny Rachitsky: If you listen to this episode and actually try some of the exercises that Graham shares, I promise you that your life and your future will be better off.
Lenny Rachitsky：如果您听了本集并实际尝试了格雷厄姆分享的一些练习，我向您保证您的生活和未来会更好。
If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.
如果您喜欢这个播客，请不要忘记订阅并在您最喜欢的播客应用程序或 YouTube 中关注它。
It's the best way to avoid missing future episodes, and it helps the podcast tremendously.
这是避免错过未来剧集的最佳方式，并且对播客有很大帮助。
With that, I bring you Graham Weaver.
接下来，我为您带来格雷厄姆·韦弗。
Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Merge.
Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Merge 为您带来。
Product leaders, yes, like you, cringe when they hear the word integration.
是的，产品领导者和你一样，在听到集成这个词时会感到畏缩。
They're not fun for you to scope, build, launch, or maintain, and integrations probably aren't what led you to product work in the first place.
对于您来说，确定范围、构建、启动或维护它们并不有趣，并且集成可能不是您最初从事产品工作的原因。
Lucky for you, the folks at Merge are obsessed with integrations.
幸运的是，Merge 的员工热衷于集成。
Their single API helps SaaS companies launch over 200 product integrations in weeks, not quarters.
他们的单一 API 可帮助 SaaS 公司在几周内（而不是几个季度）推出 200 多个产品集成。
Think of Merge like Plaid, but for everything B2B SaaS.
将 Merge 想象为 Plaid，但适用于所有 B2B SaaS。
Organizations like Ramp, Dorada and Electric use Merge to access their customers' accounting data to reconcile bill payments, file storage data to create searchable databases in their product, or HRAS data to auto-provision and deprovision access for their customers' employees.
Ramp、Dorada 和 Electric 等组织使用 Merge 来访问客户的会计数据以协调账单支付、文件存储数据以在其产品中创建可搜索数据库，或使用 HRAS 数据来自动配置和取消配置客户员工的访问权限。
And yes, if you need AI-ready data for your SaaS product, then Merge is the fastest way to get it.
是的，如果您的 SaaS 产品需要人工智能就绪的数据，那么合并是获取它的最快方法。
So want to solve your organization's integration dilemma once and for all?
那么想一劳永逸地解决您组织的整合困境吗？
Book and attend a meeting at merge.dev/lenny, and receive a $50 Amazon gift card.
在 merge.dev/lenny 上预订并参加会议，即可获得价值 50 美元的亚马逊礼品卡。
That's merge.dev/lenny.
那是 merge.dev/lenny。
Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Persona, the adaptable identity platform that helps businesses fight fraud, meet compliance requirements, and build trust.
Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Persona 为您带来，Persona 是一个适应性强的身份平台，可帮助企业打击欺诈、满足合规性要求并建立信任。
While you're listening to this right now, how do you know that you're really listening to me, Lenny?
当你现在正在听这个时，你怎么知道你真的在听我说话，莱尼？
These days, it's easier than ever for fraudsters to steal PII, faces and identities.
如今，欺诈者比以往任何时候都更容易窃取 PII、面孔和身份。
That's where Persona comes in.
这就是角色发挥作用的地方。
Persona helps leading companies like LinkedIn, Etsy and Twilio securely verify individuals and businesses across the world.
Persona 帮助 LinkedIn、Etsy 和 Twilio 等领先公司安全地验证世界各地的个人和企业。
Lenny Rachitsky: What sets Persona apart is its configurability.
Lenny Rachitsky：Persona 的独特之处在于它的可配置性。
Every company has different needs depending on its industry, use cases, risk tolerance and user demographics.
每家公司根据其行业、用例、风险承受能力和用户人口统计数据都有不同的需求。
That's why Persona offers flexible building blocks that allow you to build tailored collection and verification flows that maximize conversion while minimizing risks.
这就是为什么 Persona 提供灵活的构建模块，使您能够构建定制的收集和验证流程，从而最大限度地提高转化率，同时最大限度地降低风险。
Plus, Persona's orchestration tools automate your identity process so that you can fight rapidly shifting fraud and meet new waves of regulation.
此外，Persona 的编排工具可自动执行您的身份流程，以便您能够对抗快速变化的欺诈行为并满足新一波的监管要求。
Whether you're a startup or an enterprise business, Persona has a plan for you.
无论您是初创公司还是大型企业，Persona 都有适合您的计划。
Learn more at withpersona.com/lenny; again, that's withpersona.com/lenny.
了解更多信息，请访问 withpersona.com/lenny；再说一遍，这是 withpersona.com/lenny。
Lenny Rachitsky: Graham, thank you so much for being here.
Lenny Rachitsky：Graham，非常感谢您来到这里。
Welcome to the podcast.
欢迎来到播客。
Graham Weaver: Thanks so much for having me, Lenny.
Graham Weaver：非常感谢你邀请我，莱尼。
I'm super excited to be here.
我非常高兴来到这里。
Lenny Rachitsky: Okay, so you are ostensibly a professor at Stanford Graduate School of Business, of a class called Managing Growing Enterprises.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：好吧，你表面上是斯坦福商学院研究生院“管理成长型企业”课程的教授。
But I was reading an interview with you, and you shared that when people come ask you for advice, they're not asking, "How do I start a company?
但我正在阅读对您的采访，您分享说，当人们向您寻求建议时，他们不会问：“我如何创办一家公司？
How do I manage my growing enterprise?
我如何管理成长中的企业？
How do I make my company grow faster?" Most of the questions, the most common question you get, which is surprising to me, is, "What should I do with my life?" First of all, is that accurate?
如何让我的公司发展得更快？”大多数问题，最常见的问题，让我感到惊讶的是，“我的生活应该做什么？”首先，这准确吗？
Graham Weaver: Yeah, that is accurate.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：是的，这是准确的。
About half of all the times I meet with students, that's the question they ask.
我与学生见面的时候，大约有一半的时间他们都会问这个问题。
It's really funny too, because sometimes they'll come with a PowerPoint presentation and a two-by-two matrix and an expected value and all that.
这也很有趣，因为有时他们会附带一个 PowerPoint 演示文稿、一个二乘二矩阵和一个期望值等等。
But really they're asking the question of, "Hey, what should I do with my life," which is, by the way, a great question.
但实际上他们问的问题是：“嘿，我的生活应该做什么”，顺便说一句，这是一个很好的问题。
Lenny Rachitsky: Why do you think that's the case?
莱尼·拉奇茨基：你认为为什么会出现这种情况？
That's not what I would imagine someone at an MBA school in a business class asking for advice on.
我想象不到有人在 MBA 学校的商务课上寻求建议。
Graham Weaver: My typical meeting with a student will say, the student will start to tell me about these two or three different career or job alternatives that they have, A, B and C.
Graham Weaver：我与学生的典型会面会说，学生会开始告诉我他们拥有的两到三种不同的职业或工作选择，A、B 和 C。
Let's just use two, A and B.
我们只使用两个，A 和 B。
And then they go through and they start talking about A, and they tell me all the pros and the cons of A, and they go through it.
然后他们开始谈论 A，他们告诉我 A 的所有优点和缺点，然后他们就开始讨论 A。
And then they go through B, and they start telling me all those things.
然后他们通过B，他们开始告诉我所有这些事情。
And I start asking some questions.
我开始问一些问题。
Graham Weaver: And after about five or 10 minutes into that, I can tell that their heart and their soul and their energy is really for B.
Graham Weaver：大约五到十分钟后，我可以看出他们的心、他们的灵魂和他们的能量真的是为了 B。
That's really what they want, but they're talking themselves out of B, and they're going to talk themselves into A.
这确实是他们想要的，但他们正在说服自己放弃 B，并且他们将说服自己进入 A。
So what I try to do is, A, first, I try to let them realize that their real energy is for B, just let them feel that and understand that.
所以我想做的是，A，首先，我试着让他们意识到他们真正的能量是为了B，让他们感觉到并理解这一点。
And then secondly, I try to figure out, what are the limiting beliefs they have?
其次，我试图弄清楚他们的限制性信念是什么？
What are the fears?
有什么恐惧？
What are the obstacles?
有哪些障碍？
What are the voices in their head?
他们脑子里有什么声音？
What are all the societal pressures that are keeping them from doing B?
是什么社会压力阻止他们做 B？
And then we try to deconstruct those and get them to go do B.
然后我们尝试解构它们并让它们去做 B。
So that's the process.
这就是过程。
Lenny Rachitsky: Is there an example of a student going ...
Lenny Rachitsky：有没有一个学生去......的例子
just this actual conversation you had with someone?
只是您与某人的真实对话吗？
Graham Weaver: Absolutely.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：当然。
So there's a great example of a student of mine was from Brazil.
我的一个来自巴西的学生就是一个很好的例子。
And he came in and his prior job prior to business school was he worked in consulting.
他进来后，在进入商学院之前他的工作是咨询工作。
And that was more or less what he wanted to do.
这或多或少就是他想做的。
And then at some point I asked the students, "Okay, imagine you knew you were going to be successful and you were going to have a dream.
然后在某个时候我问学生们：“好吧，想象一下你知道你会成功并且你会有一个梦想。
And whatever you dreamed was going to come true, what would you dream for?" And he wanted to start a nonprofit in his home country of Brazil to help students have more access to education.
无论你的梦想都会实现，你会梦想什么？”他想在他的祖国巴西创办一家非营利组织，帮助学生有更多的机会接受教育。
That was what came up for him.
这就是他的遭遇。
Graham Weaver: And over the course of our class, we just chipped away at all the fears and limiting beliefs of why he shouldn't or couldn't do that.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：在我们的课堂上，我们消除了所有关于他不应该或不能这样做的恐惧和限制性信念。
And by the end, that's what he did.
到最后，他就是这么做的。
And so that's a real life example.
这是一个现实生活中的例子。
And there's all kinds of other examples, but that second one of going and starting a charity, it's not on the beaten path.
还有各种各样的其他例子，但第二个例子是创办一家慈善机构，这并不是一个人迹罕至的例子。
It's not what probably your parents are thinking you should do.
这可能不是你父母认为你应该做的事。
There's probably 100 reasons not to do it.
可能有 100 个不这样做的理由。
You probably don't know exactly how to start, and so it's intimidating.
您可能不知道到底如何开始，所以这很令人生畏。
But if you start with this idea, "Hey, five years out, 10 years out, I know I'm going to be successful," and work backwards from that, you're going to come up with a better answer.
但如果你从这个想法开始，“嘿，五年后，十年后，我知道我会成功”，然后逆向思考，你会得到一个更好的答案。
Lenny Rachitsky: This is a framework that you call the genie methodology or the genie framework, this question that you just asked that we should spend more time on, which is ...
Lenny Rachitsky：这是一个你称之为精灵方法论或精灵框架的框架，你刚才问的这个问题我们应该花更多的时间，这是......
I guess, you tell the story of the genie and how to think about this .
我想，你讲述了精灵的故事以及如何思考这个问题。
Graham Weaver: Well, when I was 13 years old, I used to listen to these motivational tapes, mowing lawns.
Graham Weaver：嗯，当我 13 岁的时候，我经常听这些励志磁带，修剪草坪。
And I'm pretty sure it was Brian Tracy had this exercise.
我很确定布莱恩·特雷西（Brian Tracy）做过这个练习。
And I've adapted it, so I'll use my exercise now.
我已经适应了它，所以我现在就使用我的练习。
So I say basically imagine that you're walking home from work and you see this bright, shiny object.
所以我说基本上想象一下你下班回家时看到这个明亮、闪亮的物体。
You walk over and you realize it's a magic lamp.
你走过去，发现这是一盏神灯。
And you rub the lamp and this genie comes out and the genie says, "Hey, I haven't been in this bottle for 10,000 years yet, so I'm not fully formed.
你擦一下灯，这个精灵就出来了，精灵说：“嘿，我已经一万年没有进入这个瓶子了，所以我还没有完全成形。
So I can't give you three wishes.
所以我不能满足你三个愿望。
But what I can do is I can give you one wish.
但我能做的就是满足你一个愿望。
And the wish I can give you is whatever you throw yourself into with your whole life and your career, it's going to turn out great.
我可以给你的愿望是，无论你全身心投入到你的一生和事业中，结果都会很好。
It's going to work out great.
效果会很好。
It's probably going to take longer than you think.
这可能需要比你想象的更长的时间。
It's going to be harder than you think, but you're going to be really happy you did and it's going to work out beyond your wildest imagination." If that were true and you had that genie blessing you with that wish, what would you wish for?
这会比你想象的更难，但你会很高兴你做到了，而且结果会超出你最疯狂的想象。”如果这是真的，并且你有那个精灵祝福你这个愿望，你会许什么愿望？
Graham Weaver: And then the students come up with an answer that's really close to their heart.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：然后学生们想出了一个非常贴近他们内心的答案。
It's a thing they would do, absent the fear of failure.
如果没有对失败的恐惧，他们就会这么做。
And then the second part of the exercise is basically that's what you should go do.
然后练习的第二部分基本上就是你应该做的。
You should be spending your life in pursuit of your genie goal.
你应该用你的一生去追求你的精灵目标。
Maybe you can't start that tomorrow; you have financial obligations, maybe there's some experience you need.
也许你明天就不能开始了；你有经济义务，也许你需要一些经验。
But at some point in this one life we get, you want to get yourself on that path of that journey.
但在我们这一生的某个时刻，你想让自己走上那条旅程的道路。
And that's the exercise that I go through with the students.
这就是我和学生一起进行的练习。
Lenny Rachitsky: It's such a simple idea, that I can totally see how it could be so powerful.
Lenny Rachitsky：这是一个如此简单的想法，我完全明白它为何如此强大。
And I love the way it's framed as not like it'll guarantee you'll be successful.
我喜欢它的框架方式，因为它不会保证你会成功。
It's instead, I'll guarantee you'll be happy.
相反，我保证你会很高兴。
Graham Weaver: You'll be happy that you took the path.
Graham Weaver：你会很高兴你选择了这条路。
And the reason I say that is that usually the genie goal is the not well-trodden path.
我这么说的原因是，精灵目标通常是一条不被人走过的道路。
So you don't even know exactly what the goal is.
所以你甚至不知道确切的目标是什么。
This charity to start education for underprivileged kids in Brazil, that takes its own form over the course of a decade.
该慈善机构旨在为巴西的贫困儿童提供教育，并在十年内形成了自己的形式。
And it will almost certainly turn out differently than you think.
结果几乎肯定会与你想象的不同。
So it's more that you'll be really happy you went and started that journey, and it will go great.
所以更重要的是，你会很高兴你开始了这段旅程，而且一切都会很棒。
It'll probably go differently and take longer than you think though.
它可能会以不同的方式进行，并且需要比你想象的更长的时间。
Lenny Rachitsky: What are some other examples of genie goals folks have followed that are kind of non-traditional and they've ended up being happy about it?
Lenny Rachitsky：人们遵循的一些非传统的精灵目标还有哪些例子，他们最终对此感到高兴？
Graham Weaver: Mine was buying companies in my dorm room at business school.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我在商学院的宿舍里收购了公司。
I have a student who's starting an amusement park in Texas.
我有一个学生正在德克萨斯州开办一个游乐园。
That's a pretty crazy example.
这是一个非常疯狂的例子。
Many students who are leaving their job and doing startups.
许多学生离开工作并开始创业。
A lot of students who going in the nonprofit world.
很多学生进入非营利世界。
So really just lots of examples.
所以真的只是很多例子。
It's as variant as the number of students I have.
它与我的学生数量一样不同。
And that's the magic of it, because you have inside of you some really unique dream that you maybe haven't even shared.
这就是它的魔力，因为你内心有一些真正独特的梦想，你甚至可能还没有分享过。
And the goal is that that's your uniqueness, and that's what you should be bringing into this world.
我们的目标是，这就是你的独特性，这就是你应该带入这个世界的东西。
Lenny Rachitsky: This whole exercise connects to something that you're a big advocate of, this idea of getting out of autopilot mode in your life.
Lenny Rachitsky：这整个练习与您大力提倡的东西有关，即摆脱生活中的自动驾驶模式的想法。
And the way I think about it is people ...
我的想法是人们......
and I'm going to ask you to describe it, but just it's almost like you're driving and you've never turned off the cruise control in your car, and you don't realize it.
我会要求你描述一下，但这就像你在开车时从未关闭过车内的巡航控制系统，而你却没有意识到这一点。
Talk about this idea that most of us are in autopilot and why it's so important to realize that and get out of it.
谈谈我们大多数人都处于自动驾驶状态的想法，以及为什么认识到这一点并摆脱它如此重要。
Graham Weaver: You start off and you're unconscious, and you're kind of going through the motions.
格雷厄姆·韦弗（Graham Weaver）：一开始你就失去了知觉，而且有点走走过场。
And you may not even realize why you're doing what you're doing or even realize what you're doing.
你甚至可能没有意识到你为什么要做你正在做的事情，甚至没有意识到你在做什么。
So for example, a typical person gets up, they have whatever their morning routine ...
例如，一个典型的人起床后，他们早上的例行公事是什么......
I'll use myself.
我就用我自己吧
I get up out, work out, take a shower, drive into work, fight traffic, commute.
我起床、锻炼、洗澡、开车上班、堵车、通勤。
I'm late.
我来晚了。
I get in, I'm late to a meeting, I'm kind of rushed meeting; meeting, meeting.
我进去了，我开会迟到了，我开会有点匆忙；会议，会议。
Okay, quick break for lunch.
好吧，快点吃午饭吧。
Maybe I return some emails; a few more meetings, a couple of Zoom calls.
也许我会回复一些电子邮件；再开几次会议，打几次 Zoom 电话。
Fight traffic on the way home, rush through dinner, get back on email.
回家路上堵车，匆匆吃完晚饭，回复电子邮件。
Go to bed.
睡觉。
Okay, that's my day.
好吧，这就是我的一天。
And that's a busy day.
那是忙碌的一天。
I felt like I did a lot.
我感觉我做了很多事情。
I'm exhausted, but it's unconscious.
我已经筋疲力尽了，但是却毫无知觉。
Graham Weaver: It's not a day that is intentional.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：这不是故意的一天。
It's not a day where I've said, "Where do I want to be going with my life?
这一天我不会说：“我的人生想去哪里？
What's important to me in this world?
在这个世界上什么对我来说是重要的？
What are my values?
我的价值观是什么？
What 10 years from now will I wish I was starting to embark on?" Adding that level of intentionality and then working backwards from that is really the magic of getting to that 10 years from now and looking back without regret and getting to a later point in your life and feeling like you're doing the thing you're put on the earth to do as opposed to just going through the motions.
十年后我希望我能开始做什么？”加上这种程度的意向性，然后从那里开始倒退，这确实是一种神奇的方法，从现在起，到了十年后，回头看时，不会后悔，到了人生的后期，感觉自己正在做你被安排在地球上要做的事情，而不是只是走走过场。
Lenny Rachitsky: So the question then here is, how do you get out of that autopilot mode?
Lenny Rachitsky：那么问题是，如何摆脱自动驾驶模式？
Because first of all, no one really realizes this is the case.
因为首先，没有人真正意识到情况是这样的。
And I'll tell a quick story.
我会讲一个简短的故事。
We're going to different preschools and daycares for our son.
我们将为儿子去不同的幼儿园和日托所。
He's a year and a half oldish.
他已经一岁半了。
And we went to this Montessori school, and the teacher's like, "I'm going to be very clear: what we're doing here is informing your child's subconscious.
我们去了这所蒙台梭利学校，老师说：“我要说得非常清楚：我们在这里所做的就是告诉你孩子的潜意识。
That's what they're learning here.
这就是他们在这里学习的内容。
And that's a huge responsibility.
这是一个巨大的责任。
We put a lot of love into that idea, but it's very important you understand that's what we do at the school." And I never thought of it that way.
我们对这个想法投入了很多爱，但重要的是你要明白这就是我们在学校所做的事情。”我从来没有这样想过。
Graham Weaver: That's amazing that they said that.
Graham Weaver：他们这么说真是太神奇了。
So you just opened up another part of this, which is depending on what research you read, somewhere between 95% and 98% of our thoughts are subconscious.
所以你刚刚打开了这个的另一部分，这取决于你读的研究，我们 95% 到 98% 的想法都是潜意识的。
And those get programmed in somehow, some way.
这些都以某种方式被编程。
A big part of that, by the way, is media, our friends, our parents, our boss, our coworkers, what we think we're supposed to do, social media: "This is cool, buy this Ferrari," all these different things.
顺便说一句，其中很大一部分是媒体、我们的朋友、我们的父母、我们的老板、我们的同事、我们认为我们应该做的事情、社交媒体：“这很酷，买这辆法拉利”，所有这些不同的东西。
And then you're just operating out of that.
然后你就可以以此为基础进行操作。
And so the idea of being intentional is create space, get out of that, get out of the fog of war, make some space.
因此，有意识的想法就是创造空间，摆脱困境，摆脱战争的迷雾，腾出一些空间。
We'll probably get to this in a little bit, but I do it with an executive coach, and really ask deep questions, make space, ask questions, create the intention that you want in each of the areas of your life.
我们可能会稍后讨论这个问题，但我会和一位高管教练一起做这件事，并真正提出深刻的问题，腾出空间，提出问题，在生活的每个领域创造你想要的意图。
And then start having your calendar reflect that intention.
然后开始让你的日历反映这个意图。
Lenny Rachitsky: And so this genie exercise is one approach, is just ask yourself this question.
Lenny Rachitsky：所以这个精灵练习是一种方法，就是问自己这个问题。
Can you say it again just for folks so they don't miss it, what's the question you should ask yourself?
你能对人们再说一遍，这样他们就不会错过吗？你应该问自己什么问题？
Graham Weaver: I mean, the biggest question I think with respect to your career is, within reason, what would you do if you knew you wouldn't fail?
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我的意思是，我认为关于你的职业生涯的最大问题是，在合理范围内，如果你知道自己不会失败，你会怎么做？
That's the biggest question.
这是最大的问题。
I'll give you a few more if you want.
如果你想要的话我可以再给你几个。
Graham Weaver: Different questions trigger different things with people that could be helpful, trigger in a good way.
Graham Weaver：不同的问题会引发不同的事情，这些事情可能会有所帮助，以良好的方式触发。
So here's a few more.
所以这里还有一些。
If you didn't have to make money, what would you do?
如果你不需要赚钱，你会做什么？
And that'll answer what you enjoy.
这将回答你喜欢的事情。
Naval Ravikant has a great question, which is, what's play for you that is work for other people?
纳瓦尔·拉维坎特（Naval Ravikant）有一个很好的问题，那就是，什么对你来说是娱乐，而对其他人来说是工作？
So for you, Lenny, that might be a podcast.
所以对你来说，莱尼，这可能是一个播客。
That might be play for you; that's really fun.
这可能适合你；这真的很有趣。
You're always going to do better at that.
你总是会在这方面做得更好。
You're going to spend more time, you're going to enjoy it more.
你会花更多的时间，你会更享受它。
That's a good one.
这是一件好事。
Graham Weaver: Another one is, what's the thing you really want to do?
Graham Weaver：另一个问题是，你真正想做的事情是什么？
But you're just too embarrassed to say it?
但你只是不好意思说出来？
And my answer to this question was that I wanted to be a motivational speaker like Tony Robbins.
我对这个问题的回答是，我想成为像托尼·罗宾斯那样的励志演说家。
And I was super embarrassed to say that, but that actually works into a lot of my life at this point.
我非常尴尬地说出这一点，但这实际上在我的生活中发挥了很大作用。
Another question, who are some people that you admire and want to be more like, and what do they do?
另一个问题，你钦佩并想成为的人是谁，他们做什么？
Where do you find those people?
你在哪里找到这些人？
What are some things you want to learn and how do you want to grow over the next five, 10 years?
您想学习哪些东西？您想在未来五年、十年内如何成长？
So I know a lot of your listeners are working in tech.
所以我知道你们的很多听众都在科技行业工作。
So five, 10 years from now, you're amazing, you're best in the world at X.
所以五年、十年后，你很了不起，你在 X 领域是世界上最好的。
What's X?
X是什么？
And how do you start to work toward becoming great at X?
您如何开始努力在 X 领域变得出色？
So there's just a few more other questions you could throw in to help you figure out some things you're excited about.
因此，您还可以提出一些其他问题来帮助您找出一些让您感到兴奋的事情。
Lenny Rachitsky: You mentioned this idea of limiting beliefs.
Lenny Rachitsky：您提到了限制信念的想法。
And I think a lot of people listening to this are probably having these beliefs right now of, "Okay, but I have a family to support.
我想很多听这个的人现在可能都有这样的信念：“好吧，但我有一个家庭要养活。
Am I going to go start a charity in Brazil?
我要去巴西创办慈善机构吗？
That's absurd.
这太荒谬了。
It sounds easy, but I can't actually change my life this radically." Can you just share something to help people get past that in some way?
这听起来很容易，但我实际上无法从根本上改变我的生活。”你能分享一些东西来帮助人们以某种方式克服这个问题吗？
Graham Weaver: Sure.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：当然。
The first thing I would say about limiting beliefs is they're the most powerful and the most dangerous when you don't even know what they are.
关于限制性信念，我要说的第一件事是，当你甚至不知道它们是什么时，它们是最强大和最危险的。
So when they're in the recesses of your subconscious mind, that is 95% of your thoughts, that's when the limiting beliefs are the most dangerous.
因此，当它们存在于你潜意识的深处时，即你95%的想法中，那时限制性信念是最危险的。
Graham Weaver: So a simple example might just be like I have a limiting belief that I'm not funny.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：所以一个简单的例子可能就像我有一个有限的信念，认为我不好笑。
That's in my subconscious and I don't even realize I have it.
那是在我的潜意识里，我什至没有意识到我有它。
So I avoid things where I'm trying to be funny or tell jokes.
所以我会避免那些我想搞笑或讲笑话的事情。
I mean, that's a silly example.
我的意思是，这是一个愚蠢的例子。
But let's use your career now and come up with some maybe deeper ones.
但现在让我们利用你的职业生涯来提出一些可能更深层次的想法。
Let's use that charity example, the Brazilian charity, "I'm going to start a Brazilian charity." What are the limiting beliefs?
让我们以慈善机构为例，巴西慈善机构，“我要创办一家巴西慈善机构。”限制性信念是什么？
Well, oh my gosh, there's a million.
好吧，天哪，有一百万。
"I don't know how to start.
“我不知道如何开始。
I don't know how I would pay for myself.
我不知道我该如何支付自己的费用。
I have business school debt.
我有商学院的债务。
I don't really know what I'm even talking about.
我真的不知道我在说什么。
I don't even have a plan for it.
我什至没有计划。
How would I get funding?" Those are all these things that are flooding your mind.
我如何获得资金？”这些都是充斥你脑海的事情。
Graham Weaver: So the first exercise is just write all that down.
Graham Weaver：所以第一个练习就是把所有这些写下来。
Just get it down on paper, and then two things will happen.
只要把它写在纸上，然后就会发生两件事。
One is when you get it down on paper, it will almost immediately strip that limiting belief of a lot of its power and a lot of its scariness.
一是当你把它写在纸上时，它几乎会立即消除这种限制性信念的大部分力量和很多恐惧。
Because now it's just something like, for example, "How would I fund this?" So the second thing that is that a lot of that scariness becomes just a to-do item.
因为现在的问题只是诸如“我将如何资助这个项目？”之类的问题。所以第二件事是，很多恐惧变成了一个待办事项。
In the recesses of your subconscious, that is a very scary, limiting belief that will actually keep you from doing the thing you love.
在你潜意识的深处，这是一个非常可怕的、限制性的信念，它实际上会阻止你做你喜欢的事情。
Once it's on paper, now it's just a to-do item that you can actually deal with with your conscious mind, just like you do anything else.
一旦写在纸上，现在它只是一个待办事项，你可以用你的意识来处理它，就像你做其他事情一样。
So, "How would I fund this," just becomes a plan, like, "I need to design a plan where I'd get funding for this charity." And then that just is a problem like any other problem.
因此，“我将如何资助这个项目”就变成了一个计划，比如“我需要设计一个计划，为这个慈善机构获得资金。”这就是一个像任何其他问题一样的问题。
It's not this nebulous, scary fear.
这并不是这种模糊的、可怕的恐惧。
It's just literally a to-do item.
这实际上只是一个待办事项。
Graham Weaver: So the first part of limiting beliefs, write them down, understand what they are, look at them in the cold day of light on paper, and then translate them into things that are just obstacles to be overcome.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：因此，限制性信念的第一部分是将它们写下来，理解它们是什么，在寒冷的日子里在纸上观察它们，然后将它们转化为需要克服的障碍。
And by the way, if you're listening to this podcast, you've overcome millions of obstacles in your life, and these are no different once they're down on paper.
顺便说一句，如果你正在听这个播客，你就已经克服了生活中数以百万计的障碍，而这些障碍一旦写在纸上就没有什么不同。
Lenny Rachitsky: Are you actually doing these exercises with your students?
Lenny Rachitsky：你真的和你的学生一起做这些练习吗？
They're taking a class about growing their enterprise and then it's like, "Okay, let's analyze what you want to do with your life"?
他们正在上一门关于发展企业的课程，然后就像是，“好吧，让我们分析一下你想在生活中做什么”？
Is that how this class goes?
这堂课就是这样进行的吗？
Graham Weaver: That's a really good question.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：这是一个非常好的问题。
So I'll give you a little bit of background.
所以我会给你一些背景知识。
So I was a case guest at Stanford Business School while I was buying companies in my dorm room.
因此，当我在宿舍里购买公司时，我是斯坦福商学院的案例嘉宾。
And it was talking about all the things that went wrong.
它正在谈论所有出错的事情。
And so it's kind of a really fun case.
这是一个非常有趣的案例。
And I did that for 12 years.
我这样做了 12 年。
And I started to realize that was my most energetic day of the year.
我开始意识到这是我一年中最有活力的一天。
And so long story short, I started teaching a class full time.
长话短说，我开始全职教课。
So I did that for four years.
所以我这样做了四年。
And I was teaching the Xs and Os of being a CEO, basically: hiring, firing, having hard conversations, managing a board, fundraising, selling, all the things you would imagine that a young CEO would need to know.
我正在教授作为首席执行官的 X 和 Os，基本上是：招聘、解雇、进行艰难的对话、管理董事会、筹款、销售，所有你想象的年轻首席执行官需要知道的事情。
Graham Weaver: After about four years, I started to realize that was great, except that no one went and did it.
Graham Weaver：大约四年后，我开始意识到这很棒，只是没有人去做。
So the class is on entrepreneurship, and they learned how to be an entrepreneur.
所以这门课是关于创业的，他们学习了如何成为一名企业家。
There was only one problem: they didn't actually become entrepreneurs.
只有一个问题：他们并没有真正成为企业家。
So then I said, "Well, wait a sec.
然后我说：“好吧，等一下。
I have to readjust my class a little bit, and I have to spend some time on the stuff we've just been talking about: finding out what your dream is, your limiting beliefs, starting to map out goals toward your actual entrepreneurship dream or whatever your genie goal is."
我必须稍微调整我的课程，我必须花一些时间在我们刚才讨论的事情上：找出你的梦想是什么，你的限制性信念，开始为你的实际创业梦想或任何你的精灵目标制定目标。”
Graham Weaver: So the way I say it is the university allows me to teach the class because I teach them entrepreneurial tricks, tactics, tools that will help them become a great CEO.
Graham Weaver：所以我所说的是大学允许我授课，因为我教给他们创业技巧、策略和工具，这些将帮助他们成为一名伟大的首席执行官。
But the real reason I teach is because I'm trying to help people really go find the thing that they're excited about and get into the life path of doing that thing.
但我教书的真正原因是因为我试图帮助人们真正找到他们感兴趣的事情，并进入做那件事的人生道路。
So I do both, but I do the second one kind of ...
所以我两者都做，但我做第二种......
maybe that's not the headline of the course, although I think that's probably why people like the course so much.
也许这不是课程的标题，尽管我认为这可能就是人们如此喜欢这门课程的原因。
Lenny Rachitsky: It's like a Trojan horse element.
Lenny Rachitsky：这就像特洛伊木马元素。
Graham Weaver: Exactly, yeah.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：没错，是的。
Tony Robbins used to say that people hire him for success, and he has to give them that so that he feels like he earned his money, but what he really delivers them is fulfillment.
托尼·罗宾斯曾经说过，人们雇佣他是为了成功，他必须给他们这些，这样他才会觉得自己赚到了钱，但他真正给他们带来的是成就感。
And it's a little bit like that.
有点像那样。
People take my class to learn how to be a CEO, but what they really get is hopefully on the path of doing the thing they want to do.
人们参加我的课程是为了学习如何成为首席执行官，但他们真正得到的希望是走上做他们想做的事情的道路。
Lenny Rachitsky: A lot of what you've been talking about, it's almost an assumption that you'll be more successful and happier if you follow your energy, your passion, versus the, "Here's how I'll make a bunch of money.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：你一直在谈论的很多内容，几乎都是一种假设，即如果你追随你的能量、你的激情，你会更成功、更快乐，而不是“这就是我赚大钱的方法。
Here's how I'll move up the ladder." Can you speak to that?
这就是我如何向上爬。”你能谈谈吗？
Graham Weaver: Yeah.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：是的。
Gosh, Lenny, it sounds so cliche when you say it like that, that I almost cringe a little bit.
天哪，莱尼，当你这么说时，听起来太陈词滥调了，我几乎有点畏缩了。
Let me try to give it a little bit different framework where it won't sound as ...
让我尝试给它一个稍微不同的框架，让它听起来不像......
because cliches are cliches because they're true.
因为陈词滥调之所以是陈词滥调，是因为它们是真的。
But let me try to give you a little bit different framework to think about it.
但让我尝试给你一个稍微不同的框架来思考它。
Graham Weaver: I think about it as you have sort of your heart or your soul or your internal scorecard, and then you have your head and your mind and the world's external scorecard.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我认为你有你的心、你的灵魂或你的内部记分卡，然后你有你的头脑、你的思想和世界的外部记分卡。
And I'll speak from this from experience.
我将从经验中谈起这一点。
So when I graduated from business school, I took the job I was supposed to take.
所以当我从商学院毕业时，我接受了我应该接受的工作。
And it was the safe job at the big private equity firm that paid well and looked great on my resume.
这是一家大型私募股权公司的一份安全工作，薪水很高，而且在我的简历上看起来也很棒。
And I took that job.
我接受了那份工作。
That was the external scorecard.
这就是外部记分卡。
My head said that.
我的头这么说。
I built an expected value calculation, all that stuff.
我建立了一个期望值计算，所有这些东西。
Graham Weaver: The problem was it wasn't my internal scorecard.
Graham Weaver：问题是这不是我的内部记分卡。
It had nothing to do with what I actually cared about and wanted to do with my life.
它与我真正关心和想做的事情无关。
And so the way that shows up is just this tension, friction, stress, anxiety, burnout, all those things.
所以表现出来的就是这种紧张、摩擦、压力、焦虑、倦怠，所有这些东西。
And you can will that, you can will yourself through for long periods of time.
你可以通过意志力做到这一点，你可以通过意志力让自己度过很长一段时间。
In fact, if you want, you can will yourself through that your whole life.
事实上，如果你愿意，你可以用自己的意志度过一生。
Graham Weaver: But then once I got into the path of the thing that I was excited about, that's when I really felt my energy change dramatically.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：但是一旦我踏上了让我兴奋的道路，我就真的感觉到我的能量发生了巨大的变化。
And I developed almost a superpower in that thing, because I had more energy.
我在那件事上几乎发展出了一种超能力，因为我有更多的能量。
I was willing to work longer, I was willing to do it.
我愿意工作更长时间，我愿意这样做。
I've been running my company now for 23 years.
我经营公司已经 23 年了。
I was willing to do it for a longer period of time.
我愿意做更长的一段时间。
I thought about it in the shower.
我在洗澡的时候想到了这个问题。
I thought about it when I went on runs.
当我跑步的时候我就想到了这个问题。
I talked to people.
我和人们交谈过。
They wanted to join because I was excited.
他们想加入，因为我很兴奋。
And it was a whole different level of power and life force that I was able to bring to that.
我能够为此带来完全不同水平的力量和生命力。
Graham Weaver: So I'm saying this from experience, that you're going to show up so much differently in the thing that you're excited about, that that alone is going to make your life a lot better.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：所以我根据经验这么说，在你兴奋的事情上，你会表现得非常不同，仅此一点就会让你的生活变得更好。
But the great irony is you're going to do so much better in that thing than you are the thing you are, quote, "supposed to do." And I certainly, certainly understand that people have real life constraints on their finances.
但最大的讽刺是，你在那件事上做得比你现在“应该做的”要好得多。我当然非常理解人们在现实生活中的财务状况受到限制。
And I 100% get that.
我百分百明白这一点。
And so a big part of what I do with students is work through those things and say, "Okay, great.
因此，我与学生一起做的很大一部分工作就是解决这些问题，然后说：“好吧，太好了。
Let's talk about this job you're going to take for X years and you're going to pay off your loans or whatever.
让我们来谈谈你将从事 X 年的这份工作，你将还清贷款或其他什么。
But during that time, let's get you on the path of the thing you really want to do." So sometime soon in your life, you want to get on that path.
但在那段时间里，让我们带你走上你真正想做的事情的道路。”所以在你生命中不久的某个时候，你想走上这条路。
Lenny Rachitsky: There's a bunch of directions I want to go here.
Lenny Rachitsky：我想在这里找到很多方向。
One is I'll just share, what you're describing is exactly what happened to me, without knowing this advice.
一是我只是分享，你所描述的正是发生在我身上的事情，而不知道这个建议。
I just started writing things online because the poll was there and people seemed to enjoy it.
我刚刚开始在网上写东西，因为有民意调查，而且人们似乎很喜欢它。
So I just kept following that path.
所以我就一直沿着这条路走下去。
And the whole time, my wife's like, "You can't make money writing on the internet.
一直以来，我妻子都在说：“你不能通过在互联网上写作来赚钱。
That's not a thing.
那不是一件事。
Why would you do this?
你为什么要这样做？
You have all these skills, that you can make a lot more doing other things." But I just kept doing that, and that's what led me to this life now where I make much, much more than I made as a product manager at Airbnb.
你拥有所有这些技能，你可以通过做其他事情赚更多的钱。”但我一直这样做，这就是我现在的生活的原因，我赚的钱比我在 Airbnb 担任产品经理赚的钱多得多。
And also, it's a lot less stressful.
而且，压力也小了很多。
And so, I'm a living example .
所以，我就是一个活生生的例子。
Graham Weaver: Yeah.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：是的。
And if you go back to what I was saying before, you probably were answering the question, "What would I do if I didn't have to make money?" You just did that because you enjoyed it.
如果你回到我之前所说的，你可能会回答这个问题：“如果我不需要赚钱，我会做什么？”你这么做只是因为你喜欢它。
What's play for you that's work for other people?
什么对你来说是娱乐而对别人来说是工作？
What do you do in your free time?
你空闲时间做什么？
You were answering all those questions.
你回答了所有这些问题。
And then I think a lot of people just say, "Oh, well, that's just a side hustle or a hobby." It is until it isn't, right?
然后我想很多人只是说，“哦，好吧，这只是一种副业或爱好。”直到它不再存在为止，对吗？
And you're a great example of that.
你就是一个很好的例子。
Lenny Rachitsky: Just to set it some expectations with folks, you tell me, how often does this actually work out for someone where this ended up being the right path for them, that it ended up working well for them?
Lenny Rachitsky：只是为了给人们设定一些期望，你告诉我，对于某人来说，这实际上对他们来说是正确的道路，最终对他们来说效果良好的情况有多频繁？
Just because people can hear this and be like, "Yeah, okay, I'm sure it works for some people; probably not for most people." What's the success rate, however you define that, for your students?
只是因为人们可以听到这个并说，“是的，好吧，我确信这对某些人有效；可能对大多数人不起作用。”无论您如何定义，您的学生的成功率是多少？
Graham Weaver: Okay, so the short answer is I don't know, because I don't have full information about how my students do or what their path would have been had they not done it.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：好吧，简短的回答是我不知道，因为我没有完整的信息来了解我的学生是如何做的，或者如果他们不这样做的话他们的道路会是什么。
So it's a kind of difficult question to answer.
所以这是一个很难回答的问题。
But what I would say is that the formula you're solving for is you, excited about something for a decade or more.
但我想说的是，你正在解决的公式是你，对某件事感到兴奋十年或更长时间。
So what has to happen?
那么接下来会发生什么呢？
You excited about something.
你对某事感到兴奋。
We just talked about what that is.
我们刚刚讨论过那是什么。
The decade or more is going to come true more likely if you're excited about it.
如果你对此感到兴奋，那么十年或更长时间就会更有可能实现。
But also, you have to go in at the beginning with that mindset and the structural ability to stay at it for a long period of time.
而且，你必须从一开始就具备这种心态和结构能力，才能长期坚持下去。
So the missing ingredient in most of the people that fail is time.
因此，大多数失败者所缺少的因素就是时间。
Graham Weaver: And I'll use myself as an example.
Graham Weaver：我将以我自己为例。
I started Alpine.
我开始了阿尔卑斯山。
We lost money on our first fund.
我们的第一只基金亏了钱。
We started doing well.
我们开始做得很好。
We got hit by the recession, we started digging out, whatever.
我们受到经济衰退的打击，我们开始挖掘，无论如何。
But long story short, I was 14 years into running my firm until I could say with confidence we were going to even stay in business, let alone be really successful.
但长话短说，我经营公司已经 14 年了，直到我可以自信地说我们甚至会继续经营下去，更不用说取得真正的成功了。
And probably 18 years until we were what I would say really successful by external standards.
大概过了 18 年，我们才达到我所说的以外部标准衡量的真正成功。
And now 23 years, we've had a great run.
23 年过去了，我们已经取得了辉煌的成就。
But if you take away the time period, then I would've gone down as one of the, quote, "failures," as opposed to, I would say, one of the success stories using this methodology.
但如果你去掉这个时间段，那么我就会被视为“失败”之一，而不是，我会说，使用这种方法的成功故事之一。
Graham Weaver: So time is the variable.
Graham Weaver：所以时间是变量。
And I think the biggest part of that is it's really, believe it or not, not typically the finance or the structural piece.
我认为，不管你信不信，其中最重要的部分是，它实际上不是财务或结构性的部分。
It's the entrepreneur or the individual's willingness to actually stay with it.
这是企业家或个人真正坚持下去的意愿。
And then upstream of that, it's their belief about how long it's supposed to take.
在此之上，他们相信这需要多长时间。
And I really hate this about the social media and just media in general, where they try to paint this picture that things are going to happen overnight.
我真的很讨厌社交媒体和一般媒体，他们试图描绘出事情将在一夜之间发生的画面。
And we've invested in 600 businesses.
我们已经投资了 600 家企业。
Let's say 550 of those are founder-started businesses where we're the first money.
假设其中 550 家是创始人创办的企业，我们是第一笔资金。
I've never, in one of those examples, seen anyone who did something quickly.
在这些例子中，我从未见过任何人做事很快。
They've all been very, very long stories to get to that point.
到目前为止，这些故事都是非常非常长的。
Lenny Rachitsky: This reminds me of a quote I read.
Lenny Rachitsky：这让我想起了我读过的一句话。
I don't know if you wrote this or you shared it, this idea that the life is suffering, so choose something worth suffering for.
我不知道这是你写的还是分享的，这个想法是生活是痛苦的，所以选择一些值得痛苦的事情。
Lenny Rachitsky: You wrote that.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：这是你写的。
Talk about that, because it feels like it's exactly what you're describing.
谈论这个，因为感觉这正是你所描述的。
It's going to take a long time to figure something out.
需要很长时间才能弄清楚一些事情。
Graham Weaver: Exactly.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：没错。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
I'm glad you brought that ...
我很高兴你带来了那个...
Yeah, I mean, think about it.
是的，我的意思是，考虑一下。
Again, using myself as an example, the first job I had, I wasn't suffering any less.
再次以我自己为例，我的第一份工作并没有减轻我的痛苦。
I was getting on planes, I was working late hours.
我要坐飞机，工作到很晚。
My time was not my own.
我的时间不属于我自己。
If I would've had kids, I'd be missing their little league games and all that stuff.
如果我有孩子，我就会错过他们的少年棒球比赛之类的事情。
So I'm doing that anyway.
所以无论如何我都会这么做。
I'm just doing it for something I don't care about.
我只是为了一些我不关心的事情而做。
And then I start my own company and I was, quote, "suffering," getting on planes, doing all that.
然后我创办了自己的公司，引用我的话来说，我“受苦”，坐飞机，做这一切。
It was just something that I cared about.
这只是我关心的事情。
So yeah, the quote, "Life is suffering.
是的，这句话是这样的：“人生就是受苦。
So figure out something worth suffering for," you're going to suffer either way.
所以找出一些值得为之受苦的事情，”无论哪种方式你都会受苦。
And that's another thing I think people don't realize, is there isn't really a path that is easy that I've ever found.
我认为人们没有意识到的另一件事是，我从未找到过一条真正容易的道路。
Lenny Rachitsky: You have another quote along these lines, which is, "Everything you want is on the other side of worse first."
莱尼·拉奇茨基（Lenny Rachitsky）：您还有另一句话，就是“你想要的一切都首先在更糟糕的另一面。”
Graham Weaver: Yeah, I mean, I know those are two non-super optimistic quotes perhaps, but I think they're true.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：是的，我的意思是，我知道这也许是两个非超级乐观的引言，但我认为它们是真的。
The second one, everything you want is on the other side of worst first, and this is something where I almost can't think of many exceptions to this.
第二个，你想要的一切都在最坏的第一的另一面，这是我几乎想不出有多少例外的情况。
Pick anything.
选择任何东西。
You want a better body?
你想要更好的身体吗？
Okay, you're going to need to go to the gym.
好吧，你需要去健身房。
When you go to the gym the first few times, it's going to not be that fun.
当你最初几次去健身房时，它不会那么有趣。
You're going to set your alarm, you're going to get sore.
你要设置闹钟，你会感到酸痛。
It's not going to be great.
情况不会太好。
You're going to have to probably make some changes to your diet.
您可能需要对饮食进行一些改变。
That's not going to be fun, at least initially.
这不会很有趣，至少一开始是这样。
And so that's one example.
这就是一个例子。
Graham Weaver: You want to change careers, you're going to have to learn a new career.
Graham Weaver：你想改变职业，你就必须学习新的职业。
You're going to have to leave your career.
你将不得不放弃你的职业生涯。
You're going to have to maybe interview for new jobs, or whatever it is.
你可能需要面试新工作，或者其他什么。
In each case, the first move is negative.
在每种情况下，第一步都是负面的。
The first move is negative to getting in shape.
第一步对保持体形不利。
The first move is negative to get out of a bad relationship, to get into a career you want to be in.
摆脱不良关系、进入你想要从事的职业的第一步是消极的。
The reason I think that's important to say is because if I'm optimizing for tomorrow and I just want to have a great day tomorrow, I'm going to stay exactly where I am, because my life will be better tomorrow if I don't make any changes.
我认为这很重要的原因是，如果我正在为明天进行优化，并且我只想明天过得愉快，那么我就会留在原地，因为如果我不做出任何改变，明天我的生活会更好。
I don't have to break up with my girlfriend, have a hard conversation, have the tears, be alone, go on dating apps.
我不必和女朋友分手，不必进行艰难的谈话，不必流泪，不必独自一人，也不必继续使用约会应用程序。
I don't have to do that if I just stay in it one more day.
如果我再呆一天，我就不必这样做。
Graham Weaver: So if you realize this and instead ask the question, the version of myself five years from now, what would they wish I was going to do right now?
格雷厄姆·韦弗：所以，如果你意识到这一点，然后问五年后的我自己，他们会希望我现在做什么？
So I can guarantee your five-year version of yourself will say, "Get out of that toxic relationship, no matter how painful it is for the next two months." And if you can make decisions from that, and then on top of that, realize it's going to get worse first, then that's why I say everything you want is on the other side of worse first.
所以我可以保证你五年后的自己会说：“摆脱这种有毒的关系，无论接下来的两个月有多痛苦。”如果你可以据此做出决定，然后最重要的是，意识到事情会首先变得更糟，那么这就是为什么我说你想要的一切都首先在更糟的另一面。
But if you don't do that, you just end up plateauing.
但如果你不这样做，你最终就会陷入停滞状态。
And so many people I see have this happen where they hit a plateau and they never move past it because they're not willing to have that hard day, month, week, year whatever it is.
我看到很多人都遇到过这种情况，他们遇到了一个平台期，但他们永远无法超越它，因为他们不愿意经历那艰难的一天、一个月、一周、一年，无论是什么。
Lenny Rachitsky: I am imagining many people hearing this right now are like, "Yeah, I see what I need to do now." That was really powerful advice.
Lenny Rachitsky：我想象现在很多人听到这句话都会说，“是的，我知道我现在需要做什么了。”这是非常有力的建议。
It makes me think of parenting advice, some parenting advice I recently saw.
这让我想起了育儿建议，我最近看到的一些育儿建议。
Dr. Becky has this advice of your job as a parent isn't to make your kids happy, but it's to make them resilient.
贝基博士的建议是，作为父母，你的工作不是让孩子快乐，而是让他们适应。
Graham Weaver: I love that, yeah.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我喜欢这个，是的。
By the way, watch how people parent.
顺便说一句，看看人们如何养育孩子。
They parent exactly the opposite of that.
他们的父母恰恰相反。
Graham Weaver: You and I both live in Marin.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：你和我都住在马林。
I don't know if you have kids or how old they are, but when you get kids in school in Marin, you see parents, they try to clear all obstacles away from their kids.
我不知道你是否有孩子，也不知道他们多大了，但是当你让孩子们在马林上学时，你会看到父母们，他们试图清除孩子身上的所有障碍。
It's the worst thing you could do.
这是你能做的最糟糕的事情。
Lenny Rachitsky: Today's episode is brought to you by Liveblocks, the platform that turns your product into a place that users want to be.
Lenny Rachitsky：今天的节目是由 Liveblocks 为您带来的，该平台可以将您的产品变成用户想要的地方。
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想想像 Notion 这样的 AI 副驾驶，像 Figma 这样的多人游戏，像 Linear 这样的评论和通知，甚至像 Google Docs 这样的协作编辑，所有这些都需要最少的配置或维护。
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来自各个行业和阶段的公司都依靠 Liveblocks 来推动其产品的参与度和增长。
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立即加入他们，为您的用户提供将他们转变为日常活跃用户的体验。
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立即在 liveblocks.io/lenny 注册免费帐户。
Lenny Rachitsky: I want to talk about another exercise that you have, but before I do that, there's all this advice you're sharing that people might be hearing and be like, "Yeah, yeah.
Lenny Rachitsky：我想谈谈你的另一个练习，但在我这样做之前，你分享的所有建议人们可能会听到并说，“是的，是的。
Okay, this is great." I'm going to share this in intro, and we're not going to talk a lot about your fund, but I did some research on it.
好吧，这太棒了。”我将在介绍中分享这一点，我们不会过多谈论您的基金，但我对此做了一些研究。
And from what I understand, it's one of the top performing PE funds in the world, which is very hard, considering how many smart people run PE funds and how ruthless that industry is.
据我了解，它是世界上表现最好的私募股权基金之一，考虑到有多少聪明人经营私募股权基金以及这个行业是多么残酷，这是非常困难的。
Anything you can comment on there?
您有什么可以评论的吗？
Yeah, I think that's important for people to know.
是的，我认为让人们知道这一点很重要。
Graham Weaver: Well, I think one of the things I would say is that I never stand up in front of students or be on a podcast like this and say anything that I'm not doing myself or that I'm advising students or people who work at Alpine to do.
Graham Weaver：嗯，我想我要说的一件事是，我永远不会站在学生面前或在这样的播客上说任何我自己没有做的事情，或者我建议学生或在 Alpine 工作的人做的事情。
And so I appreciate the kind words.
所以我很欣赏这些客气话。
And I think that the things that I'm talking about are rooted in real results.
我认为我所谈论的事情植根于实际结果。
And this is not just happy talk podcast.
这不仅仅是快乐谈话播客。
The formula, I think, for greatness is to be intentional, get in the path of the thing that you're most excited about, and then give yourself several decades to do it.
我认为，伟大的秘诀就是有意识地去做你最兴奋的事情，然后给自己几十年的时间去完成它。
And that's based on investing in 600 companies and building my own business.
这是基于投资 600 家公司并建立自己的业务。
So I appreciate the kind call out.
所以我很感激这种善意的呼吁。
Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。
For people that are listening and be like, "Okay, I'm motivated.
对于那些正在倾听的人来说，“好吧，我很有动力。
I want to do this," other than taking your class, anything you can recommend to just do these sorts of exercises, ask yourself these questions that you've seen work?
我想这样做，”除了参加你的课程之外，你可以推荐什么来做这些练习，问自己这些你认为有效的问题吗？
Graham Weaver: I mean, the answer is accountability.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我的意思是，答案是问责制。
How do you keep yourself accountable to living the life you want to live?
你如何让自己对自己想过的生活负责？
And the analogy I would use is let's say that your number one goal in life is you've got to get in better shape.
我会使用的类比是，你人生的首要目标是你必须保持更好的体形。
You just have to.
你只需要这样做。
Let's say you have even medically, you're going to have real health problems if you don't do that.
假设你从医学上来说，如果你不这样做，你就会出现真正的健康问题。
I would say you hire yourself a personal trainer, pay what you need to pay.
我想说的是，你给自己聘请一名私人教练，支付你需要支付的费用。
Okay, maybe you don't have a ton of money, but that's where I'd spend it.
好吧，也许你没有很多钱，但那是我会花的地方。
That person, A, they're going to hold you accountable to showing up at a certain time, and B, they're going to show you the exercises.
那个人，A，他们会让你负责在某个时间出现，B，他们会向你展示练习。
They're going to call you if you're not there.
如果你不在的话他们会打电话给你。
You're just increasing the chances of success.
你只是增加了成功的机会。
Plus you spend some money, you want to get your money out of it.
再加上你花了一些钱，你想从中得到钱。
Graham Weaver: The equivalent of that in your life is an executive coach.
Graham Weaver：相当于你生活中的高管教练。
And I figured this out in 2009 in the dark recesses of the recession.
2009 年，在经济衰退的最黑暗时期，我发现了这一点。
I hired my first executive coach.
我聘请了我的第一位高管教练。
And I was like, "Wow, it's a personal trainer for me for two things." Number one, make space to ask yourself the big questions in life about your career, your relationships, your health, your spirituality, your children.
我当时想，“哇，这对我来说是一个私人教练，有两件事。”第一，腾出空间问自己生活中的重大问题，比如你的职业、你的人际关系、你的健康、你的灵性、你的孩子。
Whatever the big things are in your life, ask the big questions, find out what your intention is.
无论你生活中发生什么大事，提出大问题，找出你的意图是什么。
What are you looking for in those areas?
您在这些地区寻找什么？
And just have, in my case, several hours a week to get clear on those things.
就我而言，每周只需花几个小时来弄清楚这些事情即可。
Okay, so that's part one.
好的，这是第一部分。
Graham Weaver: And then part two is that person can hold you accountable.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：第二部分是那个人可以让你承担责任。
I have one coach that I can't even have the call with the coach unless I fill out a piece of paper or an online form that says, "Here's what my one year goals are, outcomes I want to have this year are.
我有一位教练，我什至无法与教练通话，除非我填写一张纸或在线表格，上面写着：“这是我一年的目标，我今年想要的结果是。
Here's what I did last week, based on those.
基于这些，这是我上周所做的事情。
Here's what I'm going to do next week toward those.
以下是我下周要做的事情。
And here's the outcomes I want to have for the call we're about to have." And even if I never had the call, just having to fill that out every single week is incredibly powerful and allows me to hold myself accountable.
以下是我希望我们即将召开的电话会议得出的结果。”即使我从未接到过电话，每周只需填写一遍，这也是非常强大的，让我能够对自己负责。
Graham Weaver: So 100%, that's what I'd recommend.
Graham Weaver：所以100%，这就是我的建议。
Let's back up and say, okay, let's say you can't afford a coach or you're worried about that.
让我们回过头来说，好吧，假设你买不起教练或者你对此感到担心。
And this is the same thing as, let's say you couldn't afford a personal trainer.
这相当于，假设你买不起私人教练。
I would give you the same advice, which is find a very like-minded friend of yours and sit down and do it for each other.
我会给你同样的建议，那就是找到一个志同道合的朋友，坐下来为彼此做这件事。
So if you're using the workout example, okay, you're going to go on a run Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays with your friend, and they're going to meet you at 7:00 AM at this trail, or 6:00 AM at this trail.
因此，如果您使用锻炼示例，那么您将在每周二、周三和周五与您的朋友一起跑步，他们将在早上 7:00 在此步道或早上 6:00 在此步道与您会面。
That's your accountability.
这就是你的责任。
And you're going to be more likely to do it.
而且你将更有可能做到这一点。
You don't want to let them down.
你不想让他们失望。
They're going to beat you up if you don't get there.
如果你不去那里，他们就会殴打你。
Graham Weaver: Same is true with this.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：这也是如此。
This is how I started.
我就是这样开始的。
I did this with my roommate in business school.
我和我商学院的室友一起做了这个。
And we would go on a walk for 30 minutes and talk about my dreams and hopes.
我们会散步 30 分钟，谈论我的梦想和希望。
Then we'd turn around and talk about his.
然后我们会转过身来谈论他的事情。
And it was great, because we made room for each other to have those conversations, and we also developed a great friendship.
这很棒，因为我们为彼此提供了进行这些对话的空间，而且我们还建立了深厚的友谊。
So short of having an actual executive coach, find a really-minded person that could get into this with you, and that would be another thing.
如果没有真正的执行教练，找到一个真正有想法的人可以和你一起参与这件事，那就是另一回事了。
But accountability is huge.
但责任是巨大的。
I'm going to just say one more thing.
我还要说一件事。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I'm going on a little bit long on this.
我要说的有点长。
Graham Weaver: There's another thing that happens that's kind of magical, which is you activate a different part of your brain when you talk.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：还有一件很神奇的事情发生，那就是当你说话时，你会激活大脑的不同部分。
You actually activate more of your brain when you talk than when you think or write.
实际上，说话时比思考或写作时更能激活大脑。
So thinking activates the least amount of your brain.
所以思考激活你大脑的最少部分。
Writing is a little bit better, but talking activates a whole different region of your brain.
写作会好一点，但说话会激活你大脑的一个完全不同的区域。
So that's the other big benefit of not doing this just on your own, is being able to talk about it with someone.
因此，不单独做这件事的另一个大好处是能够与某人谈论它。
Lenny Rachitsky: I love that there's a whole spectrum of ways to create accountability for yourself.
Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢有各种各样的方法来为自己建立责任感。
I love the second coach you've shared, where just filling out that form was basically the biggest benefit.
我喜欢你分享的第二位教练，填写表格基本上就是最大的好处。
Graham Weaver: I learned this from these audio tapes.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我从这些录音带中学到了这一点。
When I was in college, I had this green notebook.
当我上大学时，我有一本绿色的笔记本。
And I was trying to row crew, and I never row crew before.
我正在尝试划船，但我以前从未划过船。
And I wrote down at the top of the page every single morning, I wrote down, "I am the number one rower in the country." I wasn't.
每天早上我都会在页面顶部写下，我写下，“我是全国排名第一的赛艇运动员。”我不是。
I was a freshman novice, 135 pound Midwesterner, never had been in a boat.
我是一名新生，体重 135 磅，来自中西部，从未坐过船。
But I wrote that down.
但我把它写下来了。
And then I wrote down three things I was going to do that day to move toward that goal.
然后我写下了当天要做的三件事以实现这一目标。
And I did that every single day that I was in college.
我在大学的每一天都这样做。
And it's just incredible.
这真是令人难以置信。
We talked earlier about your subconscious mind.
我们之前讨论过你的潜意识。
You're just locking your subconscious mind into your goals and where you want to go and who you want to be and how you want to show up.
你只是将你的潜意识锁定在你的目标、你想去的地方、你想成为的人以及你想如何出现。
It's really powerful.
真的很强大。
Lenny Rachitsky: And that's advice anybody can implement.
Lenny Rachitsky：这是任何人都可以实施的建议。
"I want to be the best founder"-
“我想成为最好的创始人”——
Graham Weaver: You could do that.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：你可以这么做。
You could do that exactly.
你完全可以做到这一点。
Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。
It's such a simple thing.
就是这么简单的事情。
"I want to be the best product manager.
“我想成为最好的产品经理。
Here's three things I'm doing today to help me along the lines."
我今天要做的三件事可以帮助我继续前进。”
Graham Weaver: Absolutely.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：当然。
My students have to do this twice a week.
我的学生每周必须这样做两次。
It's one of their assignments, and they actually have to turn it in.
这是他们的作业之一，他们实际上必须上交。
And I have so many students that say five years later, "I still do this a couple times a week, and it's been unbelievable." I'd say this to all your listeners: you will get more done writing down your goal and three things you're going to do to move toward that goal, you'll get more things done in three months than you will in three years without that.
我有很多学生说五年后，“我仍然每周这样做几次，这真是令人难以置信。”我想对所有听众说：写下你的目标以及为实现该目标而要做的三件事，你会做得更多，三个月内你会比没有目标的三年内完成更多的事情。
Lenny Rachitsky: That's an awesome thing to just try tomorrow at work.
Lenny Rachitsky：明天在工作中尝试一下真是太棒了。
Write this down, see how it goes.
把这个写下来，看看进展如何。
The coach point, I just want to highlight that.
教练的观点，我只是想强调这一点。
What convinced me to get a coach back when I was working is I just realized, one, every athlete has a coach that tells them, "Here's how to become better," slash, everyone that you work with that is a leader and exec basically has a coach.
让我在工作时找回教练的原因是我刚刚意识到，每个运动员都有一位教练告诉他们，“这是如何变得更好”，斜线，与你一起工作的每个人都是领导者和执行官基本上都有教练。
And the people that have an exec coach will do better in their career and life than those who don't.
有执行教练的人在职业生涯和生活中会比没有执行教练的人做得更好。
So why would you not have someone there just helping you become better at this craft?
那么为什么你不找人来帮助你提高这门手艺呢？
It just makes so much sense if you can afford it.
如果你能负担得起的话，它就很有意义。
There are different price points for different coaches.
不同的教练有不同的价格点。
Most people can probably afford it in some .
大多数人可能都能买得起。
Lenny Rachitsky: Sweet.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太好了。
Okay.
好的。
Let's talk about another framework that you have that you call nine lives.
让我们谈谈另一个你称之为九命的框架。
And this is essentially another way, it's like another way to hack your brain to come up with things you really should be doing, probably.
这本质上是另一种方式，就像另一种方式来破解你的大脑，想出你可能真正应该做的事情。
Talk about this exercise.
谈谈这个练习。
Graham Weaver: So this idea of what's my passion and what's my career goal, it can be really intimidating.
格雷厄姆·韦弗（Graham Weaver）：所以关于我的热情是什么以及我的职业目标是什么的想法可能真的很令人生畏。
And it is intimidating.
这很吓人。
And so this exercise is to make it less intimidating.
所以这个练习是为了让它不那么令人生畏。
And you basically come up with nine lives.
你基本上会想出九条命。
So you say your first life, life one is the life you have now.
所以你说你的第一个生命，第一个生命就是你现在拥有的生命。
So when I did this exercise ...
所以当我做这个练习时...
let's pretend I did this exercise when I'm right out of school, taking that job.
让我们假设我刚从学校毕业并接受那份工作时就做了这个练习。
So life one is I'm working at this big firm, I live in the Bay Area, here's what I'm doing.
所以生活第一是我在一家大公司工作，我住在湾区，这就是我正在做的事情。
That's life one.
这就是人生一。
Graham Weaver: There's two rules.
Graham Weaver：有两条规则。
The first rule is all the lives have to start from today.
第一条规则是所有的生活都必须从今天开始。
So you can't go back in time.
所以你无法回到过去。
They all start from today.
都是从今天开始的。
And the second rule is you have to be excited about all these lives.
第二条规则是你必须对所有这些生活感到兴奋。
So I might say, "Hey, my second life is I want to start a private equity firm and be a founder and be a CEO." And that's life too.
所以我可能会说，“嘿，我的第二人生是我想创办一家私募股权公司，成为创始人并担任首席执行官。”这也是生活。
And life three is I want to be an author and I want to write whatever fiction or nonfiction.
生活之三是我想成为一名作家，我想写任何小说或非小说类作品。
And then life four would be I want to be a professor and teach.
然后人生第四就是我想成为一名教授并教书。
And life five is maybe I want to make videos and be on social media.
第五生活可能是我想制作视频并出现在社交媒体上。
And life six, I want to be an actor.
人生六，我想成为一名演员。
And you go through this whole list of these lives.
你会浏览这些生命的完整列表。
Graham Weaver: And the idea is that ...
格雷厄姆·韦弗：这个想法是......
A couple of things from this exercise.
从这个练习中可以看出一些事情。
One is let's say that you're in a position where you need to be working in the job you're in.
一种情况是，假设您所处的位置需要您从事当前的工作。
There might be one of these lives that gives you the most energy, and it's the thing if you knew you wouldn't fail, you would do this one.
可能其中一种生活能给你最多的能量，如果你知道自己不会失败，你就会选择这种生活。
And it's good to recognize what that is and then pull that life a little bit into your current life.
认识到那是什么，然后将这种生活带入你当前的生活是件好事。
Graham Weaver: So let's say, Lenny, that you were a product manager, but you really loved doing podcasts, and that was one of your nine lives.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：莱尼，假设您是一名产品经理，但您真的很喜欢做播客，那是您的九种生活之一。
Do a podcast every other week, and just pull it into your life, which it sounds like what you did.
每隔一周做一个播客，然后把它带入你的生活，这听起来就像你所做的那样。
You started doing it as a side hustle.
你开始把它当作副业。
And then that'll have two amazing effects.
然后这将产生两个惊人的效果。
One is you will just have more energy everywhere else in your life.
一是你在生活的其他地方都会有更多的能量。
Forget if you ever do this full time or not; just the act of pulling something into your life you're really excited about will give you a tremendous amount of energy.
忘记你是否曾经全职做过这件事；只要把一些让你真正兴奋的事情带入你的生活，就会给你带来巨大的能量。
Graham Weaver: And then the second thing is you'll ideally find the path that is the thing that gives you the most energy.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：第二件事是，理想情况下，你会找到给你最多能量的道路。
The other thing that I've learned in doing this exercise is you actually can have pretty much all nine lives.
我在这个练习中学到的另一件事是，你实际上可以拥有几乎所有九种生命。
You can't have them at once, but if you're fortunate enough to live long enough, you can have all of these things.
你不可能立刻拥有它们，但如果你足够幸运，活得足够长，你就可以拥有所有这些东西。
So I have had the corporate job, been the founder, been the professor, been a writer, had videos, taught people.
所以我做过公司工作，做过创始人，做过教授，做过作家，制作过视频，教过人们。
I've been able to bring most of those lives into this current life.
我已经能够将其中的大部分生命带入当前的生活。
Lenny Rachitsky: There's a couple things there that come up as you talk about.
Lenny Rachitsky：当您谈论时，会提到一些事情。
One is, on that point, what I do now is my fourth career.
一是，就这一点而言，我现在所做的是我的第四职业。
First I was an engineer, then I became a founder, then I was a PM, and now I do whatever the heck this is.
首先我是一名工程师，然后我成为一名创始人，然后我是一名产品经理，现在我不管这是什么。
And I think people don't realize that's how life often goes.
我认为人们没有意识到生活往往就是这样的。
You think you're going to do one thing, and then you have many different careers that pivot into .
你认为你要做一件事，然后你就会从事许多不同的职业。
Graham Weaver: Exactly.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：没错。
And I think that's the thing.
我认为这就是问题所在。
It's just trying to make it a little less intimidating.
它只是想让它不那么令人生畏。
You don't have to have this one life purpose, passion, thing that you do for the rest of your life.
你不必拥有这一人生目标、激情，或者你余生都要做的事情。
If you just follow the thing that gives you energy at each time, it'll probably be a good indication of where you want to be going.
如果你只关注每次都能给你能量的事情，它可能会很好地表明你想去哪里。
Lenny Rachitsky: The other thread there is, I know one of your other really important pieces of advice is to avoid this not now idea, where everyone's like, "Here's the thing I should be doing, my genie goal, but not now." Thoughts on just how to think about that, of just like, "Okay, I know I have these lives I could live, but not now," on this or that?
Lenny Rachitsky：另一个线索是，我知道你的其他非常重要的建议之一是避免这种“不是现在”的想法，每个人都会说，“这是我应该做的事情，我的精灵目标，但不是现在。”思考如何思考这一点，就像“好吧，我知道我可以过这样的生活，但不是现在”，这样或那样？
Graham Weaver: Yeah, I mean, in 20 years of teaching, I've never had a student come to me and say, "Hey, Graham, my real dream is to do X, but I'm just going to give up on it.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：是的，我的意思是，在 20 年的教学生涯中，从来没有哪个学生来找我说：“嘿，格雷厄姆，我真正的梦想是做 X，但我打算放弃它。
I'm not going to do it." No one's ever said that.
我不会这么做。”从来没有人这么说过。
Instead, they say, "Not now." And not now, if they're not careful, will turn into not ever, because not now is just really another way of saying, "I'm not going to do it." And then there's a million reasons why you can't do it now.
相反，他们说：“现在不行。”如果他们不小心的话，现在不行，就会变成永远不会，因为现在不行实际上只是另一种说法，“我不会这样做。”然后有一百万个理由说明你现在不能这样做。
And those reasons, some of them are legit and some of them are just fear in another form.
这些原因，有些是合理的，有些只是另一种形式的恐惧。
Graham Weaver: In terms of how to overcome that, I think it's kind of hopeful to realize that it's never really the right time.
Graham Weaver：就如何克服这个问题而言，我认为认识到现在从来都不是正确的时机是有希望的。
When you're making a change or you're going to go do something different, it's never going to feel secure and safe.
当你做出改变或者你打算去做一些不同的事情时，你永远不会感到安全和安全。
You're always going to have some fear.
你总会有一些恐惧。
You're always going to feel like you're not ready.
你总是会觉得自己还没有准备好。
You're going to feel like it's too soon.
你会觉得现在还太早。
You're going to feel like you don't know exactly what that path looks like.
你会觉得你不知道那条路到底是什么样子。
And so just understanding that's normal.
所以只要理解这是正常的。
That's called entrepreneurship.
这就是所谓的创业精神。
That's called life.
这就是所谓的生活。
And if you wait for the clouds to part and this ray of sun to come down and say, "Now is the time," you're going to wait your whole life.
如果你等待乌云散去，阳光洒落，然后说：“现在是时候了”，那么你将等待一生。
Graham Weaver: And so I think that realization can maybe be helpful.
Graham Weaver：所以我认为认识到这一点可能会有所帮助。
And then try to figure out, what are the things that need to be true for you to launch?
然后尝试弄清楚，哪些事情需要真实才能推出？
And usually for my students, it's something financial that is the big bottleneck.
通常对于我的学生来说，财务才是最大的瓶颈。
And what I tell them is, "You know what?
我告诉他们的是，“你知道吗？
People have raised money to start a business before.
人们以前曾筹集过资金创办企业。
That's happened, where you've had people who've started businesses without their own money that have been able to pay themselves.
这种情况已经发生了，有些人在没有自己资金的情况下创办了企业，但却能够支付自己的费用。
And that's not a reason to not do it.
这并不是不这样做的理由。
It's an obstacle.
这是一个障碍。
It's something you have to solve, but it's not not an insurmountable obstacle."
这是你必须解决的问题，但这并不是一个无法克服的障碍。”
Lenny Rachitsky: This touches on a quote I definitely wanted to get to, something that you wrote not long ago.
Lenny Rachitsky：这涉及到我非常想引用的一句话，是你不久前写的。
Here's the quote: "The most important thing I've learned in the first 50 years of my life is that the true game of life is an internal one, not an external one.
引用如下：“我在人生的前 50 年中学到的最重要的事情是，生命的真正游戏是内在的，而不是外在的。
And that journey starts with three powerful words: I am enough." Talk about that.
这段旅程以三个有力的词开始：我就足够了。”谈谈那个。
Why is that so important?
为什么这如此重要？
Graham Weaver: Well, I mean, that's a really a deep topic, but I'll talk about the internal and external journey.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：嗯，我的意思是，这确实是一个很深的话题，但我会谈谈内部和外部的旅程。
So life presents itself as a series of external obstacles and events.
因此，生活表现为一系列外部障碍和事件。
And it feels very much like an external journey.
这感觉很像一次外部旅行。
And it can feel that way your whole life.
你的一生都会有这种感觉。
But I think what you'll realize, and I started realizing this when I really started meditating and spending time distancing myself from the subconscious thoughts, is a very, very large part of life is internal.
但我想你会意识到，当我真正开始冥想并花时间远离潜意识想法时，我开始意识到这一点，生活的很大一部分是内在的。
I say a very large part because obviously you need some food, clothing, shelter, some basic needs that are external.
我说很大一部分是因为显然你需要一些食物、衣服、住所，以及一些外部的基本需求。
But for most people that have the ability to even listen to this podcast, I would say the vast majority of your life is internal.
但对于大多数有能力听这个播客的人来说，我想说你生活的绝大多数都是内在的。
Graham Weaver: So what do I mean by that?
格雷厄姆·韦弗：那么我这是什么意思呢？
I mean that you're writing a story about what it is you think you need to be happy, or you're writing a story about things you think you need to be to be enough or to be respected or to feel worthy or to get admiration of other people.
我的意思是，你正在写一个关于你认为你需要快乐的事情的故事，或者你正在写一个关于你认为你需要满足或受到尊重或感到有价值或得到他人钦佩的事情的故事。
You're writing that story, and it's just a story.
你正在写那个故事，而它只是一个故事。
And if you really follow this logic, you'll realize that.
如果你真的遵循这个逻辑，你就会意识到这一点。
You'll realize it is 100% just a story, or it's a story that you should even care.
你会意识到这100%只是一个故事，或者这是一个你应该关心的故事。
And then that opens up a lot more agency that you have over deciding what is important to you, what is your internal scorecard, what are the things that matter to you, not what the external world thinks or the story you've been writing for a long time.
这样你就可以拥有更多的自主权来决定什么对你来说是重要的，什么是你的内部记分卡，什么是对你来说重要的事情，而不是外部世界的想法或你长期以来一直在写的故事。
When you start to open this up, it's really kind of scary at first, because you'll start to realize most of the things you're operating from are really just stories that have been written at some point in your life.
当你开始打开它时，一开始确实有点可怕，因为你会开始意识到你所操作的大部分事情实际上只是你生命中某个时刻写下的故事。
And so it's actually terrifying at first, and then it starts to become really liberating.
所以一开始它实际上很可怕，然后它开始变得真正自由。
Lenny Rachitsky: Was there an example of that in your life?
Lenny Rachitsky：你的生活中有这样的例子吗？
Because externally, it feels like you're killing it: a killer PE fund, teaching at Stanford.
因为从外部来看，感觉就像你正在杀死它：一个杀手级私募股权基金，在斯坦福大学任教。
The scorecard is looking good.
记分卡看起来不错。
So it's interesting you say that.
所以你这么说很有趣。
Graham Weaver: The first time I really realized this, it was in 2015.
Graham Weaver：我第一次真正意识到这一点是在 2015 年。
I mentioned to you it took me 14 years to be successful.
我向你提到过我花了 14 年才取得成功。
So we had just sold the last company from our second fund, which is where we really got paid.
因此，我们刚刚出售了第二支基金中的最后一家公司，这才是我们真正获得报酬的地方。
I had a financial event that was ...
我有一个金融事件是......
it wasn't like I never have to work again in my life.
我并不是这辈子就不需要再工作了。
It was just like I could exhale a little bit.
就好像我可以稍微呼气一样。
I knew I was going to be able to pay my mortgage and put my kids through college.
我知道我将能够支付抵押贷款并供我的孩子们完成大学学业。
It was that kind of an event.
就是这样的一个事件。
And for a couple days I was euphoric, because I felt like I'd worked so hard for this.
有几天我很欣喜，因为我觉得我为此付出了很大的努力。
I'd been, again, at this for 15 years, but really longer than that, if you go back to getting into college.
再说一次，我在这方面已经干了 15 年了，但如果你回到上大学的时候，时间真的比这更长。
And the whole thing had been a long journey.
整个事情是一个漫长的旅程。
Graham Weaver: And then it hit me that nothing changed.
Graham Weaver：然后我突然意识到什么都没有改变。
Nothing internally changed at all.
内部根本没有任何改变。
I still had the same problems.
我仍然遇到同样的问题。
I still felt the same way about myself.
我对自己仍然有同样的感觉。
I still had a lot of negative thoughts about myself.
我对自己仍然有很多消极的想法。
This goal that I thought that I had for this whole long period of time, it didn't actually change anything.
我以为我长期以来的这个目标实际上并没有改变任何事情。
It changed externally, for sure.
当然，它从外部发生了变化。
Like I said, I could exhale and pay my mortgage.
就像我说的，我可以松口气并支付抵押贷款。
And those are all really good things.
这些都是非常好的事情。
But that was the first time when I realized, "Oh, wait a second.
但那是我第一次意识到，“哦，等一下。
It's really up to me to find things that are going to give me joy.
找到能给我带来快乐的事情真的取决于我。
And the achievement of some kind of external event is not one of those things."
而某种外部事件的成就并不是其中之一。”
Graham Weaver: And I know that sounds really, really weird, but there's so many people that I've heard that have had very, very similar stories.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我知道这听起来真的很奇怪，但我听过很多人都有过非常非常相似的故事。
And so it was really disorienting for me.
所以这真的让我迷失方向。
And actually it was the first time in my life where I experienced depression, because I just had this thought of, "I think I was working my whole life for that, and it wasn't what I thought it was going to be." And so now I was thinking, "Well, what is it then?
事实上，这是我一生中第一次经历抑郁症，因为我只是想到，“我想我一生都在为此努力，但结果并不是我想象的那样。”所以现在我在想，“那么，那是什么？
What is the thing that's going to give me joy?" And that takes some introspection to ask those questions.
有什么事情可以给我带来快乐呢？”提出这些问题需要一些反省。
Lenny Rachitsky: I was just having a conversation with a friend who's an angel investor, and he just had a bunch of exits.
Lenny Rachitsky：我刚刚和一位天使投资人朋友交谈，他刚刚退出了很多次。
And he's like, "Cool, I got some money in my bank account now, but I don't feel anything.
他说，“酷，我的银行账户里现在有了一些钱，但我没有任何感觉。
I thought I'd be like, 'Holy moly, this is exactly what I was hoping for.
我想我会说，‘天哪，这正是我所希望的。
And nothing changed.'" Exactly how you're describing.
一切都没有改变。’”正是你所描述的。
Graham Weaver: I think you get a little bit of peace of mind when you have some financial security, which is valuable.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我认为，当你有一定的财务保障时，你会感到一点安心，这是很有价值的。
But in terms of now my life changes, now I'm enough, now I am happy, now I feel good about myself, none of that changes, for really anybody that I know.
但就现在而言，我的生活发生了变化，现在我已经足够了，现在我很快乐，现在我自我感觉良好，对于我认识的任何人来说，这些都没有改变。
Lenny Rachitsky: And the hardest part, as you said, is you think it will.
Lenny Rachitsky：正如你所说，最困难的部分是你认为它会发生。
You think, "Oh, I'll be so happy once I achieve this thing." And I think an example of this is there's a lot of miserable billionaires, from what I've read and see.
你想，“哦，一旦我实现了这个目标，我会很高兴。”我认为这方面的一个例子是，从我读到和看到的情况来看，有很多悲惨的亿万富翁。
And that should tell you a lot.
这应该告诉你很多。
Lenny Rachitsky: Maybe a second-to-last question; I'm curious if there's anything recently you're focused on, have been thinking a lot about that maybe you changed your mind about, or has changed the way you think about the world?
Lenny Rachitsky：也许是倒数第二个问题；我很好奇最近有什么事情是你关注的、思考了很多的，也许你改变了主意，或者改变了你对世界的看法？
Graham Weaver: The last two years, I had my two oldest boys go off to college, 2022 and then 2024.
Graham Weaver：过去两年，我让两个最大的儿子分别在 2022 年和 2024 年上大学。
And that really hit hard.
这确实造成了沉重打击。
You would think that I would've been preparing for that for 18 years for each of them, but for some reason it just really hit me really, really hard.
你可能会认为我会为他们每个人准备 18 年，但出于某种原因，这对我的打击真的非常非常大。
And I think it was a real wake up call of mortality, I guess, and to realize that nothing goes on forever.
我认为这是对死亡的真正警钟，我想，并意识到没有什么会永远持续下去。
And these wonderful people that I had lived with, each for 18 years, were no longer going to really be a part of my daily life.
这些与我一起生活了 18 年的优秀人们将不再真正成为我日常生活的一部分。
Graham Weaver: And that really set me off on a journey of a lot of spiritual work, doing a lot of meditating and working with some gurus.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：这确实让我踏上了一段精神工作之旅，进行了大量冥想并与一些大师一起工作。
And it's been really profound.
这真的非常深刻。
And it's put me a lot closer in touch with the things that really matter to me.
它让我更近距离地接触对我来说真正重要的事情。
I've given myself more permission to spend time doing those things than the normal external world type things.
与正常的外部世界类型的事情相比，我给了自己更多的许可去花时间做这些事情。
So that was a pretty profound change for me.
所以这对我来说是一个非常深刻的变化。
And the spiritual journey is arguably really the important journey.
精神之旅可以说是真正重要的旅程。
And this could be a longer conversation.
这可能是一个更长的谈话。
And maybe you have the luxury of doing that journey as you get older or something, but it's been a really profound, profound journey.
也许随着年龄的增长，你可以享受这段旅程，但这是一次非常深刻的旅程。
Lenny Rachitsky: I'm excited to see what insights come out of this part of your life.
Lenny Rachitsky：我很高兴看到您从这部分生活中得出的见解。
Final question before we get to our very exciting lightning round.
在我们进入非常激动人心的闪电回合之前，最后一个问题是。
We have this segment on the podcast called Failure Corner, where people come on this podcast, they share all these wins: "Oh, I have this amazing PE fund that's killing it.
我们在播客上有一个名为“失败角”的片段，人们来到这个播客上，分享所有这些胜利：“哦，我有一支令人惊叹的私募股权基金，它正在杀死它。
I teach at Stanford.
我在斯坦福大学教书。
I've launched all these things.
我已经启动了所有这些事情。
All these students, they're so great.
这些学生，他们都太棒了。
Life's amazing.
生活真奇妙。
Nothing ever goes wrong," when in reality, it does.
永远不会出问题”，而事实上，确实如此。
And those stories often aren't told.
而这些故事通常不会被讲述。
So I'm curious if there's a story you could share of a time you failed in your career and, if you learned something from that experience, what you learned.
所以我很好奇你是否可以分享一个关于你职业生涯失败的经历的故事，以及如果你从那次经历中学到了什么，你学到了什么。
Graham Weaver: Yeah, I'll tell a couple stories.
Graham Weaver：是的，我会讲几个故事。
So when I was in high school, I wrestled.
所以当我在高中的时候，我就摔跤了。
And I cut a lot of weight to make the varsity team.
为了进入校队，我减掉了很多体重。
And I was not in the best mental place because of cutting weight.
由于减肥，我的精神状态也不佳。
But anyway, I lost a big match my junior year.
但无论如何，我在大三那年输掉了一场重要的比赛。
And I quit and I never wrestled again.
然后我就放弃了，再也没有摔跤过。
And that haunted me.
这一直困扰着我。
So first of all, that was a failure, a big failure for me.
首先，那是一次失败，对我来说是一次巨大的失败。
And it really haunted me.
这确实困扰着我。
And so I, after that, made a promise to myself that it wasn't going to have that happen again.
所以在那之后我向自己保证不会再发生这样的事情。
When I went to college, I tried to row crew.
当我上大学时，我尝试划船。
I failed year after year trying to make the team, trying to make the boat.
年复一年，我试图组建团队、打造船，但都失败了。
Eventually had some real success my senior year, but prior to that, just failure after failure.
最终我在高四那年取得了一些真正的成功，但在此之前，只是一次又一次的失败。
Graham Weaver: And then at Alpine, I mean, we lost money on our first fund.
Graham Weaver：然后在 Alpine，我的意思是，我们的第一只基金亏损了。
We had real trouble during the recession.
我们在经济衰退期间遇到了真正的麻烦。
I think five of my first eight investments I ever made in my life, I lost money.
我认为我一生中进行的前八项投资中有五项是赔钱的。
And in venture world, that's one thing, but in private equity, that's a whole different ratio, which is not a good ratio at all.
在风险投资领域，这是一回事，但在私募股权领域，这是一个完全不同的比率，这根本不是一个好的比率。
When I first started teaching, I wasn't good at teaching, had a lot of insecurities.
当我刚开始教书时，我不擅长教书，有很多不安全感。
I was really young when I started, and I didn't feel like I had really anything to share with the students.
刚开始的时候我真的很年轻，我觉得自己没有什么可以与学生分享的。
And I think that showed up, and it took me a long time to kind of figure that out.
我认为这一点已经出现了，我花了很长时间才弄清楚这一点。
Graham Weaver: So I guess almost my entire track record is one that starts with things not going well, and then just over a long period of time of chipping away, looks like a success on paper.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：所以我想我的整个记录几乎都是从事情进展不顺利开始的，然后经过很长一段时间的努力，在纸面上看起来像是成功的。
But anytime early in the process would look like an abject failure.
但在这个过程的早期任何时候都看起来像是一次彻底的失败。
So I'm quite familiar with failure in the form of setbacks.
所以我对挫折形式的失败非常熟悉。
I think the ultimate failure though was the wrestling one, where I just quit.
我认为最终的失败是摔跤那场，我就退出了。
That was really the only one I would characterize as a failure.
这确实是我认为唯一失败的一次。
The other ones, because I kept going and staying with it, turned out to work out well, with a lot of scars and bruises, but the failure would've been quitting.
其他的，因为我一直坚持下去，结果很好，虽然有很多伤疤和瘀伤，但失败就是放弃。
Lenny Rachitsky: I love that the circles back to your core advice of stick with it.
Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢回到你坚持下去的核心建议。
Most things that are important take a long time and there's a lot of suffering .
大多数重要的事情都需要很长时间，并且会经历很多痛苦。
Lenny Rachitsky: Something I wanted to ask, I can't help but ask at this point, because I think a lot of people are wondering this, just when do you quit?
Lenny Rachitsky：我想问一些事情，此时我忍不住要问，因为我想很多人都想知道这个问题，你什么时候退出？
When should you quit something?
你什么时候应该放弃某件事？
Because some things are just not worth it.
因为有些事情根本不值得。
Is there any advice there you could share?
您有什么建议可以分享吗？
Graham Weaver: Yes, for sure.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：是的，当然。
I think the time to quit is when you can no longer see the vision and you can no longer really believe the vision.
我认为放弃的时候是当你不再能看到愿景并且你不能再真正相信这个愿景的时候。
And then when that happens for a long period of time ...
然后当这种情况发生很长一段时间时......
or maybe you're no longer even excited about the vision; somewhere in there, I think.
或者你可能不再对这个愿景感到兴奋；我想，就在那里的某个地方。
The excited one, you have to be a little careful of, because in the dark days, exciting is not the word you're going to use.
兴奋的时候，你必须小心一点，因为在黑暗的日子里，兴奋不是你要使用的词。
But at least in our company, for the first 10 years it was not going well.
但至少在我们公司，前10年进展并不顺利。
But each time, we'd make fewer mistakes, we'd start to see something working.
但每一次，我们都会犯更少的错误，我们会开始看到一些东西正在发挥作用。
We'd do one really good deal in this fund, we'd start to learn from that.
我们会在这只基金上做一笔非常好的交易，我们会开始从中学习。
We'd get one really good hire, we'd learn from that.
我们会得到一位非常好的员工，我们会从中学习。
We would little by little start to see these green shoots.
我们会逐渐开始看到这些绿芽。
Graham Weaver: And I have this unbelievable statement.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我有一个令人难以置信的声明。
I didn't write it.
我没写。
Dan and Chip Heath wrote it in their book, Switch, which is "Scale your bright spots.
丹·希思 (Dan Heath) 和奇普·希思 (Chip Heath) 在他们的书《Switch》中写道：“扩展你的亮点。
Find what's working and do more of that." And as you start to progress, for me, for example, at Alpine, almost all the time, we always had at least a small glimmer of a bright spot.
找到有效的方法并采取更多措施。”当你开始进步时，对我来说，例如，在 Alpine，几乎一直以来，我们总是至少有一丝亮点。
And then we'd scale that and then we'd continue forward and we'd find some more and we'd scale those.
然后我们会扩展它，然后我们会继续前进，我们会发现更多，然后我们会扩展它们。
And over time, all those bright spots became our business.
随着时间的推移，所有这些亮点都成为了我们的业务。
That became what we did.
这就是我们所做的。
That became our strategy.
这成为我们的策略。
That became how we hired people.
这成了我们雇佣员工的方式。
That became where we recruited from.
那成为我们招募人员的地方。
All those bright spots just started to magnify until the entire business was pretty much a bright spot.
所有这些亮点都开始放大，直到整个业务几乎成为一个亮点。
But it took time, because we had to figure out where those were.
但这需要时间，因为我们必须弄清楚它们在哪里。
And we had to do a lot of things wrong to figure out where the bright spots were.
我们必须做很多错误的事情才能找出亮点在哪里。
Lenny Rachitsky: Graham, is there anything else that you wanted to share or you think is important to leave listeners with before we get to our very exciting lightning round?
Lenny Rachitsky：Graham，在我们开始激动人心的闪电回合之前，您还有什么想分享的或者您认为对听众来说很重要的事情吗？
Graham Weaver: I mean, I think what I would say is just in general, you got one life, you get one shot.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我的意思是，我认为我想说的是一般性的，你只有一次生命，你只有一次机会。
And so take the time to really figure out and answer the question, what does a wonderful, amazing, incredible life look like?
因此，花点时间真正弄清楚并回答这个问题：美好、令人惊奇、令人难以置信的生活是什么样的？
And just get as clear as you possibly can on that.
并尽可能明确这一点。
No matter how crazy or aspirational it seems, write it down.
不管它看起来多么疯狂或有抱负，把它写下来。
Write down that thing is write down that thing that would make this life amazing.
写下那件事就是写下那件事，让这一生变得精彩。
And write it down for your life, your career, your relationships, your friends, your body, your spirituality, your financial situation.
把它写下来，记录你的生活、你的事业、你的人际关系、你的朋友、你的身体、你的灵性、你的财务状况。
And just the first magic is just knowing what you want.
第一个魔法就是知道你想要什么。
And I'd say 90% of people never even know what they want.
我想说 90% 的人根本不知道自己想要什么。
So take the time to do that.
所以花点时间去做这件事。
And the more clear you are on that, the more invested you are in that, the more likely you are to make it come true.
你越清楚这一点，你就越投入，你就越有可能实现它。
Lenny Rachitsky: What I love about that is you don't have to do this thing, just step one is understand what it could be if you could do that.
Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢的是你不必做这件事，第一步就是了解如果你能做到的话它会是什么。
Lenny Rachitsky: And it's almost like understand where your Google directions could take you if you turned off autopilot.
Lenny Rachitsky：这几乎就像了解如果你关闭自动驾驶仪，你的谷歌方向会带你去哪里。
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
Okay.
好的。
Well, with that, Graham, we reached our very exciting lightning round.
好吧，格雷厄姆，我们就这样进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。
Are you ready?
你准备好了吗？
Lenny Rachitsky: First question, what are two or three books that you find yourself recommending most to other people?
Lenny Rachitsky：第一个问题，您发现自己最向其他人推荐的两三本书是什么？
Graham Weaver: So in the realm of a lot of the topics we've been talking about, which is your internal and external game, I love the book Untethered Soul.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：因此，在我们一直在谈论的许多主题领域，即你的内部和外部游戏，我喜欢《不受束缚的灵魂》这本书。
And I love the book, Don't Believe Everything You Think.
我喜欢《不要相信你所想的一切》这本书。
They have very similar themes, but they come at it differently.
他们有非常相似的主题，但他们的处理方式不同。
But I think both of those will really change your perspective if you read them.
但我认为，如果您阅读它们，它们都会真正改变您的观点。
Graham Weaver: And then a very, very practical book that's probably the book I've read more than any other book, is How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie, which was written in like 1930.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：戴尔·卡内基写的《如何赢得朋友和影响他人》是一本非常非常实用的书，可能是我读得最多的书，大约写于 1930 年。
There's no other book it.
没有别的书了。
There's a reason that people are still recommending it 100 years after it's written.
这本书写成 100 年后，人们仍然在推荐它，这是有原因的。
So it's definitely worth checking out.
所以绝对值得一试。
Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah, that book, I still think about it often, even though I read it 30 years ago at this point.
Lenny Rachitsky：是的，我仍然经常想起那本书，尽管我已经 30 年前读过它了。
I love that recommendation.
我喜欢这个推荐。
And it's like a very old book to read, but you have to get past the fact that it was written a long time ago.
这就像一本非常古老的书，但你必须忘记它是很久以前写的这一事实。
Okay, next question.
好的，下一个问题。
Do you have a favorite recent movie or TV show you really enjoyed?
您最近有最喜欢的电影或电视节目吗？
Graham Weaver: I, for the first time, watched the movie Where the Crawdads Sing.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：我第一次观看电影《小龙虾唱歌的地方》。
And I just loved it.
我就是喜欢它。
It's kind of a romantic comedy, or not comedy, sorry, romantic love story meets murder mystery, meets coming of age.
这是一部浪漫喜剧，或者不是喜剧，抱歉，浪漫的爱情故事遇到了谋杀之谜，遇到了成长。
And it really, really touched me.
这真的非常感动我。
Then I promptly read the book as well, so I love that.
然后我也很快读了这本书，所以我很喜欢。
Lenny Rachitsky: Do you have a favorite product you've recently discovered that you really love?
Lenny Rachitsky：您最近发现有一款您真正喜欢的最喜欢的产品吗？
Graham Weaver: I'm a really big fan of sleep.
Graham Weaver：我非常喜欢睡眠。
I think it makes a massive difference in your life.
我认为这会给你的生活带来巨大的改变。
And that's a whole other topic we could go down another time.
这是另一个话题，我们可以下次再讨论。
So I have a few things that have helped me on that.
所以我有一些事情对我有帮助。
So if you saw me sleeping, I have earplugs, I have a noise machine.
所以如果你看到我睡觉，我有耳塞，我有噪音机。
I have a sleep mask, and then I have a Chilipad that goes on my bed to keep the bed cool.
我有一个睡眠面罩，然后我有一个 Chilipad，放在我的床上以保持床凉爽。
And I sleep great.
我睡得很好。
All those things really help.
所有这些事情确实有帮助。
The earplugs and mask and noise machine allow you to not hear the ambient noise.
耳塞和面罩以及噪音机让您听不到环境噪音。
And then there's a lot of research actually on the temperature at which you want to sleep.
事实上，有很多关于你想要睡觉的温度的研究。
And your body goes up and down throughout the night.
你的身体整个晚上都会上下起伏。
So this Chilipad that goes under your mattress, there's a whole bunch of versions of that.
所以这个放在你床垫下的 Chilipad 有很多版本。
And that helps a lot.
这很有帮助。
Lenny Rachitsky: I also sleep with an eye mask.
Lenny Rachitsky：我睡觉时也戴着眼罩。
My wife and I rotate the earplugs, because someone has to pay attention to the baby, in case he wakes up.
我和妻子轮流戴上耳塞，因为必须有人注意宝宝，以防他醒来。
Lenny Rachitsky: And this Chilipad, is this the Eight Sleep, or is this in just a cold bag?
Lenny Rachitsky：这个Chilipad，是八睡眠，还是只是装在一个冷袋里？
Graham Weaver: Well, no. So I actually bought the Eight Sleep, and it was too much.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：嗯，不。所以我实际上买了八睡，而且太多了。
Graham Weaver: It would turn on and off.
Graham Weaver：它会打开和关闭。
And I would wake up.
我会醒来。
And then it would track my sleep, and then I'd start to freak out because it'd tell me I wasn't sleeping well.
然后它会追踪我的睡眠情况，然后我就会开始抓狂，因为它会告诉我我睡得不好。
So I actually returned it and I got a really simple one called OOLER.
所以我实际上把它退回了，我得到了一个非常简单的东西，叫做 OOLER。
And it just turns on and off.
它只是打开和关闭。
There's no timing.
没有时间安排。
There's no any weird functionality.
没有任何奇怪的功能。
And it was a lot cheaper, and it works better for me.
而且它便宜很多，而且对我来说效果更好。
So everyone use their own thing, but that one worked better for me.
所以每个人都用自己的东西，但那个对我来说效果更好。
Lenny Rachitsky: Okay, two more questions.
Lenny Rachitsky：好的，还有两个问题。
Do you have a favorite life motto that you often think about that you find useful in work or in life?
您是否有一条最喜欢的人生格言，并且经常思考，并认为这对您的工作或生活很有用？
Graham Weaver: I love this quote that sums up a lot of what we talked about in the podcast.
Graham Weaver：我喜欢这句话，它总结了我们在播客中讨论的很多内容。
It's by Howard Thurman.
这是霍华德·瑟曼的作品。
And he says, "Don't ask what the world needs.
他说：“不要问世界需要什么。
Ask instead what makes you come alive, because what the world needs most is for you to come alive." And I think that just talks about it's really about you coming alive that's the most important thing.
相反，问问是什么让你变得活跃起来，因为世界最需要的就是让你变得活跃起来。”我认为这只是谈论真正让你活起来，这是最重要的事情。
And that is going to have so much positive exhaust in the world.
这将会给世界带来如此多的积极影响。
And things from that will come that you can't even imagine right now.
随之而来的事情将会是你现在无法想象的。
Lenny Rachitsky: I was thinking of that quote as you were describing your philosophy.
Lenny Rachitsky：当你描述你的哲学时，我想到了这句话。
Final question.
最后一个问题。
I feel like a lot of people might be listening to this being like, "I came here for one of the most legendary private equity investors of all time, and you don't talk about private equity at all." So let me just use this opportunity to ask you just a question here.
我觉得很多人可能会听到这样的话：“我来这里是为了有史以来最传奇的私募股权投资者之一，而你根本不谈论私募股权。”所以让我利用这个机会问你一个问题。
What do you look for in a company that you want to buy that maybe other people don't?
您在一家您想收购但其他人可能不想收购的公司中寻找什么？
Is there some insight you could share?
您有什么见解可以分享吗？
Graham Weaver: Yeah.
格雷厄姆·韦弗：是的。
Well, I'm happy to talk about private equity, by the way.
嗯，顺便说一句，我很高兴谈论私募股权。
It's just that we talked-
只是我们聊过——
Lenny Rachitsky: We'll do another episode on that.
Lenny Rachitsky：我们会再制作一集。
This could be a whole podcast episode.
这可能是一整集播客。
I understand.
我明白。
Graham Weaver: Really happy to talk about that about.
Graham Weaver：真的很高兴谈论这个。
So I'll answer the question more like, what's a little bit of a different philosophy that we have?
所以我会回答这个问题，比如，我们的理念有什么不同？
So when we were coming out of the recession and I hired this coach, we looked at all of our companies.
因此，当我们走出经济衰退时，我聘请了这位教练，我们审视了我们所有的公司。
And we were looking for where did we make our most money, and what was the most consistent trend?
我们正在寻找我们在哪里赚到最多的钱，以及最一致的趋势是什么？
And we looked at valuation, growth rates, capital structure, geography, industry.
我们研究了估值、增长率、资本结构、地理位置、行业。
We cut the data every way you could imagine.
我们以您能想到的各种方式切割数据。
And we had these three companies that kept showing up on all these lists that were three of our top performers, but they didn't seem to really have anything in common.
这三家公司不断出现在所有这些名单上，它们是我们表现最好的三家公司，但它们似乎没有任何共同点。
Graham Weaver: And then we're like, "Well, they have one thing in common, which is they started off really badly, so badly in fact that we put our own person from Alpine in to go run the company, and then they ended up becoming our best companies." So we said, "Wait a second.
Graham Weaver：然后我们会说，“嗯，他们有一个共同点，那就是他们一开始非常糟糕，事实上非常糟糕，以至于我们让来自 Alpine 的人来管理公司，然后他们最终成为了我们最好的公司。”所以我们说：“等一下。
Maybe that's the highly correlated thing, is us putting our own team in place, and even upstream of that, maybe just having an incredible management team." So that was foundational.
也许这是高度相关的事情，我们建立了自己的团队，甚至在其上游，也许只是拥有一支令人难以置信的管理团队。”所以这是基础。
And now, we put our own leadership team in 100% of the time.
现在，我们 100% 的时间都派上了自己的领导团队。
And not only that, but we have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to build a program to help people who are in their late 20s, early 30s learn how to become CEOs.
不仅如此，我们还花费了大量的时间试图建立一个项目来帮助 20 岁末、30 岁出头的人学习如何成为首席执行官。
And that's been foundational.
这是基础。
Graham Weaver: So the thing that we probably believe to be true that not that many people agree with us on is that the management team is really where we think all the alpha comes from.
Graham Weaver：因此，我们可能相信的事实是，管理团队确实是我们认为所有阿尔法的来源，但没有多少人同意我们的观点。
You can't get the industry wrong, because if you hire the best management team in the world to run a typewriter business, you're going to lose money.
你不能搞错这个行业，因为如果你聘请世界上最好的管理团队来经营打字机业务，你就会赔钱。
So you can't be wrong on the industry, but you also don't have to be perfect on the industry.
所以你在这个行业上不可能是错的，但你也不必在这个行业上是完美的。
You have to have a good enough industry and then a world-class management team.
你必须有一个足够好的产业，然后有一个世界一流的管理团队。
And we found that to be a really good formula for consistent returns.
我们发现这是一个实现持续回报的非常好的公式。
And it's way more fun because you're literally in a board meeting with someone that is on your side of the table, because you hired them and put them in.
这更有趣，因为你实际上是在与站在你这一边的人一起参加董事会会议，因为你雇佣了他们并让他们加入。
And so you're building the company together.
所以你们正在共同建设公司。
And they're bringing a lot of similar values.
他们带来了很多相似的价值观。
And so it's been a real differentiator for us.
所以这对我们来说是一个真正的差异化因素。
Lenny Rachitsky: I have so many questions, but I'm going to cut it off there.
Lenny Rachitsky：我有很多问题，但我要就此打住。
We could do another episode going deep on all this.
我们可以再做一集来深入探讨这一切。
Graham, this was amazing.
格雷厄姆，这太棒了。
I think we're going to be helping a lot of people with what they want to do with their lives, and if nothing else, give them a little opportunity to break out of autopilot, at least for a little bit.
我认为我们将帮助很多人做他们想做的事情，如果没有别的事，给他们一个打破自动驾驶仪的机会，至少是一点点。
Two final questions.
最后两个问题。
Where can folks find you online if they want to maybe follow up, ask maybe some other questions that they are thinking as they hear this?
如果人们想跟进，或者问一些他们听到这个消息时正在思考的其他问题，可以在哪里找到你？
And then how can listeners be useful to you?
那么听众如何对你有用呢？
Graham Weaver: My website's grahamweaver.com, and I have a blog on there as well as a lot of videos and different things.
Graham Weaver：我的网站是 grahamweaver.com，我在那里有一个博客以及很多视频和不同的东西。
And then on Instagram and TikTok, I'm grahamcweaver.
在 Instagram 和 TikTok 上，我是 grahamcweaver。
And then on LinkedIn, I'm Graham Weaver.
在 LinkedIn 上，我是 Graham Weaver。
And on YouTube, I think I'm Graham C.
在 YouTube 上，我认为我是 Graham C.
Weaver.
韦弗。
So Graham C.
所以格雷厄姆 C.
Weaver will pretty much get you on all those channels.
Weaver 几乎可以让您访问所有这些频道。
Graham Weaver: How can listeners be helpful?
Graham Weaver：听众如何提供帮助？
I would say I'd love to hear from you.
我想说我很想听听你的消息。
So my best way to reach me is grahamweaverblog.com.
因此，联系我的最佳方式是 grahamweaverblog.com。
And tell me what's on your mind.
并告诉我你的想法。
I may not respond 100%, but I will read all the emails.
我可能不会百分百回复，但我会阅读所有电子邮件。
And then if you're interested, subscribe to my blog.
然后，如果您有兴趣，请订阅我的博客。
So go to my website, grahamweaver.com, and I have a blog where I talk about a lot of the topics that we're talking about today.
因此，请访问我的网站 grahamweaver.com，我有一个博客，我在其中讨论了我们今天讨论的许多主题。
Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。
Graham, thank you so much for being here.
格雷厄姆，非常感谢你来到这里。
Lenny Rachitsky: Bye, everyone.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：再见，大家。
Thank you so much for listening.
非常感谢您的聆听。
If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。
Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review, as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.
另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。
You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at LennysPodcast.com.
您可以在 LennysPodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。
See you in the next episode.
下一集见。