The ultimate guide to PR | Emilie Gerber (founder of Six Eastern)

Emilie Gerber: No one ever gets this tactical in PR.

Emilie Gerber：没有人在公关中懂得这一策略。

There's just so much theoretical conversation and examining the big blunders, but at the end of the day, if you're a startup that wants to get coverage for your company, you need to know actually the steps to take to do it.

有太多的理论讨论和检查重大错误，但归根结底，如果你是一家想要为你的公司获得保险的初创公司，你需要知道实际需要采取的步骤。

Lenny: You mentioned a bunch of amazing companies you've worked with, Ram Perplexity.

莱尼：你提到了一些与你合作过的出色公司，Ram Perplexity。

Most products won't have this interesting of a story to tell.

大多数产品不会有这么有趣的故事可讲。

How do you help find something that is a nugget?

你如何帮助找到金块？

Emilie Gerber: You can get so in the weeds with your own messaging that you want to set up this massive problem statement, you want to make it a huge trend story, but if you're very straightforward and you're pattern matching, it's generally actually going to work.

Emilie Gerber：你可以用自己的信息来表达你想要建立这个巨大的问题陈述，你想要使它成为一个巨大的趋势故事，但如果你非常简单并且你进行模式匹配，那么它通常实际上会起作用。

Lenny: So I asked you to bring some examples of pitches that are great and also examples of pitches that could be better.

莱尼：所以我请你提供一些很棒的推介示例以及可以做得更好的推介示例。

Emilie Gerber: I want to read one to you and then I want to see if you can tell me what this company does.

Emilie Gerber：我想读一篇给你听，然后我想看看你能否告诉我这家公司是做什么的。

Lenny: Deal.

莱尼：成交。

Today, my guest is Emilie Gerber.

今天，我的嘉宾是艾米莉·格伯。

Emilie is the founder and CEO of Six Eastern, a PR agency that has worked with over 100 tech companies, from stealth startups to publicly traded companies, helping them get press, build awareness, and level up their PR and comms strategy.

Emilie 是 Six Eastern 的创始人兼首席执行官，这是一家公关机构，已与 100 多家科技公司（从秘密初创公司到上市公司）合作，帮助他们获得媒体报道、建立知名度并提升公关和传播策略。

Before starting her own firm, she worked at Uber where she led PR for the business development team and B2B programs.

在创办自己的公司之前，她曾在 Uber 工作，领导业务开发团队和 B2B 项目的公关工作。

Prior to that, she worked at Box on product communications with a focus on product launches and partnership announcements.

在此之前，她在 Box 从事产品传播工作，重点关注产品发布和合作伙伴公告。

In our conversation, Emilie shares so many golden nuggets of advice on how to get press that I lost count.

在我们的谈话中，艾米莉分享了很多关于如何获得媒体报道的宝贵建议，我都记不清了。

Lenny: We talk about which publications to target depending on your market and story, how to craft your pitch and your outreach to reporters, how to actually reach reporters, and also how to craft your product story for people to pay attention to what you're doing, why warm introductions to reporters aren't actually that important, how to find podcasts and newsletters to pitch that might be even more effective than traditional media, how much it would cost you to work with a PR agency instead of doing it yourself, and how much lead time you need if you do that.

莱尼：我们会讨论根据您的市场和故事来定位哪些出版物，如何设计您的宣传和对记者的宣传，如何真正接触记者，以及如何制作您的产品故事让人们关注您正在做的事情，为什么对记者的热情介绍实际上并不那么重要，如何找到可能比传统媒体更有效的播客和时事通讯进行宣传，与公关机构合作而不是自己做会花费多少，以及您需要多少准备时间如果你这样做。

Lenny: Also, we go through a few real-life examples of press and outreach, both good examples and bad examples, and what we can learn from those.

莱尼：此外，我们还回顾了一些现实生活中的新闻和宣传例子，包括好的例子和坏的例子，以及我们可以从中学到什么。

Also, we look at a pitch that Emilie sent to me about a podcast guest that is a client of hers that worked, and this guest is coming out in the future, so we look at what was effective about that pitch, and so much more.

此外，我们还查看了 Emilie 发送给我的关于一位播客嘉宾的推介，该嘉宾是她的客户，该嘉宾很有效，并且这位嘉宾将来会出现，因此我们会研究该推介的有效之处，等等。

If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow on your favorite podcasting app or YouTube, it's the best way to avoid missing feature episodes and it helps the podcast tremendously.

如果您喜欢这个播客，请不要忘记订阅并关注您最喜欢的播客应用程序或 YouTube，这是避免错过专题节目的最佳方式，并且对播客有很大帮助。

With that, I bring you Emilie Gerber after a short word from our sponsors.

在我们的赞助商简短发言后，我为您带来了艾米丽·格伯 (Emilie Gerber)。

Lenny: Let me tell you about a product called Sprig.

Lenny：让我告诉你一个叫做 Sprig 的产品。

Next gen product teams like Figma and Notion rely on Sprig to build products that people love.

Figma 和 Notion 等下一代产品团队依靠 Sprig 来构建人们喜爱的产品。

Sprig is an AI-powered platform that enables you to collect relevant product experience insights from the right users, so you can make product decisions quickly and confidently.

Sprig 是一个人工智能驱动的平台，使您能够从正确的用户那里收集相关的产品体验见解，以便您可以快速、自信地做出产品决策。

Here's how it works.

这是它的工作原理。

It all starts with Sprig's precise targeting, which allows you to trigger in-app studies based on users' characteristics and actions taken in product.

这一切都始于 Sprig 的精确定位，它允许您根据用户的特征和在产品中采取的操作触发应用内研究。

Then Sprig's AI is layered on top of all studies to instantly surface your product's biggest learnings.

然后，Sprig 的人工智能会叠加在所有研究之上，以立即呈现您产品的最大学习成果。

Sprig Surveys enables you to target specific users to get relevant and timely feedback.

Sprig Surveys 使您能够定位特定用户以获得相关且及时的反馈。

Sprig Replays enables you to capture targeted session clips to see your product experience firsthand.

Sprig Replays 使您能够捕获目标会话剪辑，以第一时间了解您的产品体验。

Sprig's AI is a game changer for product teams, they're the only platform with product level AI, meaning it analyzes data across all of your studies to centralize the most important product opportunities, trends, and correlations in one real-time feed.

Sprig 的 AI 是产品团队的游戏规则改变者，它们是唯一具有产品级 AI 的平台，这意味着它会分析所有研究中的数据，以将最重要的产品机会、趋势和相关性集中在一个实时源中。

Lenny: Visit sprig.com/lenny to learn more and get 10% off.

Lenny：访问 sprig.com/lenny 了解更多信息并享受 10% 折扣。

That's S-P-R-I-G.com/lenny.

那是 S-P-R-I-G.com/lenny。

This episode is brought to you by Eppo.

本集由 Eppo 为您带来。

Eppo is a next-generation AB testing and feature management platform built by alums of Airbnb and Snowflake for modern growth teams.

Eppo 是由 Airbnb 和 Snowflake 的校友为现代增长团队打造的下一代 AB 测试和功能管理平台。

Companies like Twitch, Miro, ClickUp, and DraftKings rely on Eppo to power their experiments.

Twitch、Miro、ClickUp 和 DraftKings 等公司依靠 Eppo 来支持他们的实验。

Experimentation is increasingly essential for driving growth and for understanding the performance of new features, and Eppo helps you increase experimentation velocity while unlocking rigorous deep analysis in a way that no other commercial tool does.

实验对于推动增长和了解新功能的性能越来越重要，Eppo 可以帮助您提高实验速度，同时以其他商业工具无法做到的方式解锁严格的深度分析。

When I was at Airbnb, one of the things that I loved most was our experimentation platform.

当我在 Airbnb 时，我最喜欢的事情之一就是我们的实验平台。

Bracket set up experiments easily, troubleshoot issues, and analyze performance all on my own.

Bracket 可以轻松地设置实验、解决问题并分析性能，全部由我自己完成。

Eppo does all that and more with advanced statistical methods that can help you shave weeks off experiment time and accessible UI for diving deeper into performance and out-of-the-box reporting that helps you avoid annoying prolonged analytics cycles.

Eppo 通过先进的统计方法完成了这一切，并提供了更多功能，可以帮助您缩短数周的实验时间，并且可访问的 UI 可以更深入地了解性能，而开箱即用的报告可以帮助您避免烦人的长时间分析周期。

Lenny: Eppo also makes it easy for you to share experiment insights with your team, sparking new ideas for the AB testing flywheel, EPO powers experimentation across every use case, including product, growth, machine learning, monetization, and email marketing.

Lenny：Eppo 还使您可以轻松地与团队分享实验见解，激发 AB 测试飞轮的新想法，EPO 为每个用例提供实验支持，包括产品、增长、机器学习、货币化和电子邮件营销。

Check out Eppo at getepo.com/lenny and 10 X your experiment velocity.

请访问 getepo.com/lenny 查看 Eppo，了解 10 倍的实验速度。

That's get E-P-P-O.com/lenny.

请访问 E-P-P-O.com/lenny。

Emilie, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.

艾米莉，非常感谢您来到这里，欢迎来到播客。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, thank you for having me.

艾米莉·格伯：是的，谢谢你邀请我。

Lenny: So we're going to be talking about press.

莱尼：所以我们要谈论媒体。

A lot of people say that trying to get press isn't really worth your time.

很多人说花时间去媒体报道并不值得。

It doesn't drive signups, it doesn't drive growth.

它不会推动注册，也不会推动增长。

You could spend your time on other things and have a lot more impact there, and I know that you have a really interesting perspective on second order effects of press and other benefits.

你可以把时间花在其他事情上，并在那里产生更大的影响，而且我知道你对媒体和其他好处的二阶效应有一个非常有趣的观点。

So I'm curious to hear, what's your perspective on this idea, that press isn't really worth people's time and how can press be helpful?

所以我很好奇，你对这个想法有什么看法，媒体并不真正值得人们花时间，媒体如何能有帮助呢？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, when we were emailing about it, talking about some of the articles that you were in, some of the coverage that you got, I was thinking about how, in your case, you have multiple audiences.

埃米莉·格伯：是的，当我们通过电子邮件讨论这件事，谈论您发表的一些文章，您收到的一些报道时，我在想，就您而言，您如何拥有多个受众。

You have your customers, which in a way, are your listeners and the people that are engaging with your content.

您有您的客户，在某种程度上，他们是您的听众和与您的内容互动的人。

So in a way, you're a B2C business, but in another way, you're a B2B business.

因此，在某种程度上，您是一家 B2C 企业，但从另一方面来说，您也是一家 B2B 企业。

Obviously, you have sponsors and you're trying to attract really great guests to come on the show, and so there's a second order piece of the press is validating that you're something that a software company wants to sponsor.

显然，你有赞助商，并且你正在努力吸引真正优秀的嘉宾来参加节目，因此媒体的第二条新闻正在证实你是一家软件公司想要赞助的东西。

So internally, they're making those decisions.

所以在内部，他们正在做出这些决定。

Not everyone might know Lenny's podcast, but they could send around a CNBC article and see that this is something very legit and something that people care about.

并不是每个人都知道 Lenny 的播客，但他们可以发送 CNBC 的一篇文章，看看这是非常合法的事情，也是人们关心的事情。

It just signals that third-party validation that I think is really important, and that ties back to, when you look at a SaaS company or something and they're making decisions, having that validation, I think, and that credibility goes a really long way.

它只是表明，我认为第三方验证非常重要，这与当你观察一家 SaaS 公司或其他公司时，他们正在做出决策时，我认为，进行验证，并且可信度会大有帮助。

Emilie Gerber: Especially for a company that might be early stage, they've raised a little bit of money, I think sometimes the buyers are skeptical of engaging with new tools, because they're worried they might not raise more funding, or it might go away tomorrow, and so the more that you can validate the business through things that's not just you doing personally that other people are doing, I think the better.

Emilie Gerber：特别是对于一家可能处于早期阶段的公司来说，他们已经筹集了一些资金，我认为有时买家对使用新工具持怀疑态度，因为他们担心自己可能无法筹集更多资金，或者明天可能会消失，所以你越能通过其他人正在做的事情来验证业务，而不仅仅是你个人在做的事情，我认为更好。

So I think, yeah, that's the value from the B2B perspective and it's not necessarily going to directly drive signups, but when that AE is sending their sales emails and they can link to a story, I think that really helps.

所以我认为，是的，这就是从 B2B 角度来看的价值，它不一定会直接推动注册，但是当 AE 发送他们的销售电子邮件并且他们可以链接到一个故事时，我认为这确实有帮助。

Also, candidates too, when you're reaching...

另外，候选人也是如此，当你达到......

If it's a recruiter reaching out on LinkedIn and they only have 100 characters to make their pitch, linking to that story can be really powerful.

如果招聘人员在 LinkedIn 上伸出援手，而他们只有 100 个字符来进行宣传，那么链接到该故事可能会非常有效。

Emilie Gerber: So those are some of the second-order effects for B2B.

Emilie Gerber：这些是 B2B 的一些二阶效应。

And then, on the consumer side, it's a much more complex issue.

然后，在消费者方面，这是一个更加复杂的问题。

There's affiliate marketing, which is this whole world of paid, where you're getting product reviews and that sort of thing, and that's not really an area that I'm an expert on, but we do work with some consumer companies where press is a major driver of growth.

还有联属营销，这是整个付费世界，您可以在其中获得产品评论之类的东西，这并不是我真正擅长的领域，但我们确实与一些消费品公司合作，其中媒体是增长的主要推动力。

So for instance, Perplexity, they have invested essentially zero in any paid marketing, they don't have a marketing person even, but they do do PR.

例如，Perplexity，他们在任何付费营销上的投资基本上为零，他们甚至没有营销人员，但他们确实做公关。

And so essentially, after their most recent announcement, they saw a massive spike in growth, a massive spike in signups, pro users, all of that.

因此，从本质上讲，在他们最近宣布之后，他们看到了增长的大幅增长，注册人数、专业用户的大幅增长，所有这些。

And I think, in that case, the reason PR works so well is...

我认为，在这种情况下，公关如此有效的原因是……

Emilie Gerber: First of all, it's something that's very easy to grasp.

Emilie Gerber：首先，它很容易掌握。

Google alternative.

谷歌替代品。

I know how to use Google, I've used Google a million times, you can go to perplexity.com.

我知道如何使用 Google，我已经使用 Google 一百万次，你可以访问 perplexity.com。

The barrier to trying the product is very low, you can quickly type in a query, get the answer, and then see the power of the tool.

尝试该产品的门槛非常低，您可以快速输入查询，得到答案，然后看到该工具的强大功能。

It takes one time to see the power of the tool.

需要用一段时间才能见识到这个工具的威力。

So in that case, I think just organic press is enough to generate that.

因此，在这种情况下，我认为仅有机媒体就足以产生这一点。

There's not a long process to get the customers interested, so...

让客户感兴趣的过程并不长，所以......

Yeah.

是的。

I mentioned very case to case, but in those instances, it works well,

我提到了具体情况，但在这些情况下，它运作良好，

Lenny: Man, there's so many threads I want to follow here.

莱尼：伙计，这里有很多我想关注的话题。

That was such an interesting answer.

这是一个非常有趣的答案。

And by the way, I love Perplexity.

顺便说一句，我喜欢困惑。

I once tweeted a result I had when I was using Perplexity, and that was one of their default questions you could ask about strawberries.

我曾经在推特上发布过我使用 Perplexity 时得到的结果，这是你可以问关于草莓的默认问题之一。

Apparently, strawberries are not one fruit, strawberries are a bundle of fruits and every little piece of a strawberry, those little red things, are individual fruits all bundled together, which blew my mind.

显然，草莓不是一个水果，草莓是一捆水果，草莓的每一小块，那些红色的小东西，都是单独的水果，全部捆绑在一起，这让我大吃一惊。

I was like, "I need to share this," and so I wonder how much of their growth just comes from crazy things like that.

我当时想，“我需要分享这个”，所以我想知道他们的成长有多少来自于这样的疯狂事情。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, it's like the kind of tool where your mom could try it and instantly know how to use it.

Emilie Gerber：是的，这就像一种工具，你的妈妈可以尝试一下并立即知道如何使用它。

Yeah.

是的。

It's good for weird questions, like what you just shared.

它非常适合解决奇怪的问题，例如您刚刚分享的问题。

That's where it comes in really handy.

这就是它真正派上用场的地方。

Lenny: You did a great job just defaulting, "Here's weird questions you could ask," and then, wow, what an answer.

莱尼：你做得很好，只是默认了“这是你可以问的奇怪问题”，然后，哇，多么好的答案啊。

Okay, so on the B2B side, I think this is really interesting.

好吧，在 B2B 方面，我认为这真的很有趣。

When people are thinking about doing the calculus of, "Is it worth investing and trying to get press for a B2B business?" Related to what we were talking about offline.

当人们考虑“B2B 业务是否值得投资并争取媒体关注？”时，与我们谈论的离线相关。

So when I got these stories in Fast company, I got a story in CNBC, I got a story in Entrepreneur Magazine, and I was telling you I've seen zero growth impact from all these stories.

因此，当我在《Fast》公司、CNBC 和《企业家》杂志上看到这些故事时，我告诉你，我看到所有这些故事对增长的影响为零。

And you'd think like, "Wow." I had a story in the magazine, Entrepreneur Magazine, print edition, and nothing comes from it as far as I can tell.

你会想，“哇。”我在杂志《企业家杂志》印刷版上写了一个故事，但据我所知，没有任何内容。

Lenny: And your point, which really stuck with me, is the real benefit isn't that first order growth impact, it's...

莱尼：你的观点让我印象深刻，真正的好处不是一阶增长的影响，而是......

And I've been doing this, it's when I'm emailing potential guests telling them, "Hey, check out my work or my profile in these magazines." And just having those little logos is really powerful, and that's why you see those logos on people's websites.

我一直在这样做，就是当我给潜在的客人发电子邮件告诉他们，“嘿，看看我的工作或我在这些杂志上的个人资料。”仅仅拥有这些小徽标就非常强大，这就是为什么您会在人们的网站上看到这些徽标。

So is your advice here, basically, for B2B businesses than most?

那么，您的建议基本上是针对 B2B 企业的吗？

If the pie chart of impact of press, most of that percentage is just having a logo of an awesome publication on your website and your outbound emails, and things like that?

如果媒体影响力的饼图，大部分百分比只是在您的网站和出站电子邮件上有一个很棒的出版物的徽标，以及类似的东西？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, the logo is a piece of it and then also the storytelling part.

艾米莉·格伯：是的，标志是其中的一部分，也是讲故事的一部分。

Maybe they're not going to read eight paragraphs that you wrote about your business, but if it's in the format of an article, I think they're more likely to take the time to do it.

也许他们不会阅读你写的关于你的业务的八段文字，但如果是文章的形式，我认为他们更有可能花时间去做。

One other, I guess, aspect of it is content.

我想，另一方面是内容。

So for instance, the articles that people want to write about you are not about necessarily how great your podcast is, which it is, but more about how you created this business.

举例来说，人们想写的关于你的文章不一定是关于你的播客有多棒，但更多的是关于你如何创建这个业务。

And so it's more through the lens of you're an entrepreneur, you have built this media empire, and so that's not necessarily the kind of story that's going to drive your core audience to sign up, and so contents is part of it, too.

因此，更多的是从你是一名企业家的角度来看，你已经建立了这个媒体帝国，所以这不一定是那种会促使你的核心受众注册的故事，所以内容也是其中的一部分。

And so we work with companies where we get them great stories about their company culture and cool initiatives that they're doing, because reporters are interested in that topic.

因此，我们与公司合作，为他们提供有关其公司文化和他们正在采取的酷炫举措的精彩故事，因为记者对此主题感兴趣。

That's not going to help their sales, but it might help with something like recruiting.

这对他们的销售没有帮助，但可能对招聘等方面有帮助。

And so yeah, I think thinking...

所以是的，我认为思考......

That's the other piece of it, is thinking through the content.

这是另一部分，就是思考内容。

Lenny: That's such a good point, because the story they're going to write about you isn't, "This is the best product you've ever seen," this is, "Look at this interesting journey this startup has gone on," and that's not going to convince your customers, it's going to convince other people just to read this publication, but the fact that they wrote about you is really beneficial.

莱尼：这是一个很好的观点，因为他们要写的关于你的故事不是“这是你见过的最好的产品”，而是“看看这家初创公司所经历的有趣的旅程”，这不会说服你的客户，它会说服其他人只是阅读这份出版物，但他们写的关于你的事实确实是有益的。

And then you're saying B2C, most of the benefit is actually driving growth and you've seen lots of examples of press driving significant growth.

然后你说的是 B2C，大部分好处实际上是推动增长，你已经看到了很多媒体推动显着增长的例子。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, I think it can be and I think this is one where, yeah, it's a little more case-to-case, because we have some clients where they need to invest heavily in affiliate, because product reviews are what they need or they want to be on lists of the best vacuum cleaner, or whatever category, and it's less about getting them big features.

埃米莉·格伯：是的，我认为可以，我认为这是一个，是的，这是一个更具体的情况，因为我们有一些客户，他们需要在联属网络公司上投入大量资金，因为产品评论是他们所需要的，或者他们希望出现在最好的吸尘器或任何类别的列表中，而不是为他们提供大的功能。

And so there's different ways of doing it for B2C.

因此，B2C 有不同的实现方式。

But yeah, I do think it's like...

但是，是的，我确实认为这就像...

Yeah, there's two camps, affiliate or not affiliate.

是的，有两个阵营，附属或非附属。

Lenny: Can you actually explain this affiliate bucket?

莱尼：你能具体解释一下这个联盟桶吗？

Because I'm not actually that familiar with it.

因为我其实对它还不是那么熟悉。

Emilie Gerber: I can.

艾米莉·格伯：我可以。

However, we actually don't do affiliate marketing, so there's probably going to be a lot of people that have a much more insightful perspective on it, but affiliate is essentially when you work with a publication to give them a percentage of any sales that come from the piece of the article.

然而，我们实际上不做联属营销，所以可能会有很多人对此有更有洞察力的观点，但联属营销本质上是当你与出版物合作时，让他们从文章的任何销售中获得一定比例。

And so if you look at Business Insider's list of best personal finance tools, it'll say at the top that they're getting commission.

因此，如果您查看《商业内幕》的最佳个人理财工具列表，您会发现顶部会显示它们正在获取佣金。

So they track the links, they figure out a certain percentage, and then they basically get a percentage of all the sales that come in, and it's very common.

因此，他们跟踪链接，计算出一定的百分比，然后基本上获得所有销售额的百分比，这很常见。

I would say most consumer companies are doing this, but yes, there's entire agencies that are dedicated to that field.

我想说大多数消费公司都在这样做，但是是的，有整个机构致力于该领域。

Lenny: Wow, I didn't actually know that was such a big thing.

莱尼：哇，我真的不知道这是一件大事。

I've heard of affiliate marketing where you get paid for promoting something, I didn't know Business Insider did this as a revenue.

我听说过联属营销，你可以通过推广某些东西来获得报酬，但我不知道 Business Insider 以此作为收入。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, and I don't want to call out just...

埃米莉·格伯：是的，我不想只是喊......

I mean, I would say every publication that's doing product reviews for the most part, I believe, it's a very common practice.

我的意思是，我想说，每个出版物大部分都在进行产品评论，我相信这是一种非常常见的做法。

Lenny: Wow.

莱尼：哇。

All right, already learning a lot.

好吧，已经学到很多东西了。

Okay, so I definitely want to start talking about how to actually get press for your product, but one quick question about fundraising announcements.

好吧，我肯定想开始谈论如何真正让你的产品获得媒体报道，但有一个关于筹款公告的简单问题。

So I'm an investor in a lot of companies, very often, they email me and ask for advice how to get press and, most of the time, it's a fundraising milestone.

所以我是很多公司的投资者，他们经常给我发电子邮件，询问如何获得媒体的建议，大多数时候，这是一个筹款里程碑。

When is it worth investing trying to get press and fundraising?

什么时候值得投资尝试获得媒体报道和筹款？

Like always worth trying, rarely worth your effort?

就像总是值得尝试，却很少值得你付出努力？

Does it have to be some really impressive fundraising moment?

这一定是一些令人印象深刻的筹款时刻吗？

What do you suggest?

你有什么建议？

Emilie Gerber: I also think not all PR people are going to agree with this, but I do think funding rounds, you can always get a reporter to cover if you go about it the right way.

艾米莉·格伯：我也认为并非所有公关人员都会同意这一点，但我确实认为在融资轮次中，如果你采取正确的方式，你总是可以让记者报道。

I mean, we scope out projects that are just for funding announcements, we've never had to not finish that project or we've never...

我的意思是，我们确定的项目只是为了资助公告，我们从来没有必须完成该项目，或者我们从来没有......

I wouldn't do that if it wasn't possible, so I think there's a couple of reasons that it sometimes doesn't work out.

如果不可能的话我不会这样做，所以我认为有时无法成功有几个原因。

But I guess just to take a step back on funding stories, a lot of founders automatically think that, "I raise money, so TechCrunch will cover this." The reality is...

但我想，退一步讨论融资故事，很多创始人都会自然而然地认为，“我筹集了资金，所以 TechCrunch 会报道这一点。”现实是……

Someone tweeted, actually someone from another agency, I should...

有人发推文，实际上是另一个机构的人，我应该……

Propeller PR, they tweeted that they counted how many funding stories TechCrunch did in a week, and it was nine, so they had written nine funding stories in one week.

Propeller PR，他们发推文说，他们统计了 TechCrunch 一周内做了多少个融资故事，结果是 9 个，所以他们一周内写了 9 个融资故事。

And then they counted how many funding rounds actually happened that week by looking at Axis Parata and Fortune Term Sheet, and it was like 50.

然后他们通过查看 Axis Parata 和 Fortune Term Sheet 计算了那周实际发生的融资轮数，大约是 50 轮。

Emilie Gerber: So it seems...

艾米莉·格伯：看来……

When you go to TechCrunch, it looks like, "It's all funding stories, so mine should be one of these." That's not the case at all.

当你访问 TechCrunch 时，你会发现，“都是融资故事，所以我的应该是其中之一。”事实并非如此。

But I do think, if you go about it the right way, you can be one of those nine.

但我确实认为，如果你以正确的方式去做，你可以成为这九人之一。

And I'm talking about TechCrunch specifically here only because the reality is they are the publication that's going to be most likely to write your funding story, that's just kind of the way it works.

我在这里特别谈论 TechCrunch 只是因为现实是它们是最有可能撰写您的融资故事的出版物，这就是它的运作方式。

And it's not a bad thing, they're actually...

这并不是一件坏事，他们实际上...

They don't have a paywall, they tend to do a very good job, they understand it.

他们没有付费墙，他们往往做得很好，他们理解这一点。

It's a well-oiled machine, and so we know if you've done a story with them, it's going to pretty much go how you want to plan it.

这是一台运转良好的机器，所以我们知道，如果你用他们写了一个故事，它几乎会按照你想要的计划进行。

So when you go to pitch a funding story, I think the first thing that founders, or whoever is reaching out on behalf of the company, does wrong is they convolute the message.

因此，当你去推销融资故事时，我认为创始人或代表公司的任何人所做的第一件事就是错误地混淆了信息。

Emilie Gerber: When we pitch a funding story, we make it very clear, "Hey, we're reaching out with a startup launch or funding.

Emilie Gerber：当我们推销融资故事时，我们会非常明确地表示，“嘿，我们正在与一家初创公司合作或提供融资。

We're offering this to you as an exclusive, meaning we're not going to pitch anyone else if you take the story.

我们将其作为独家内容提供给您，这意味着如果您接受这个故事，我们不会向其他任何人推销。

Here's the amount that's raised, here's the space that...

这是筹集的金额，这是...的空间

Here's the space they're in and here are the investors." I think you can get so in the weeds with your own messaging, that you want to set up this massive problem statement, you want to make it a huge trend story.

这是他们所处的空间，这里是投资者。”我认为你可以通过自己的信息传递来深入了解，你想要建立这个庞大的问题陈述，你想要使它成为一个巨大的趋势故事。

You don't really say what you're trying to accomplish from it, but if you're very straightforward and you're pattern matching, "Hey, this TechCrunch reporter is the one that covers FinTech.

你并没有真正说出你想从中实现什么，但如果你非常直截了当并且进行模式匹配，“嘿，这位 TechCrunch 记者就是报道金融科技的记者。

I have a FinTech funding round, here's the reason my FinTech funding round matters." It's generally actually going to work and now it does 100% takes follow up.

我有一轮金融科技融资，这就是我的金融科技融资轮很重要的原因。”一般来说，它确实会起作用，而且现在 100% 需要跟进。

Emilie Gerber: You're not shooting off one email, you are respectfully following up.

Emilie Gerber：您不是在发送一封电子邮件，而是在恭敬地跟进。

When I follow up, I like to come in with some new information, whether it's something they had tweeted in the past couple of days, a new article that they wrote, very respectful.

当我跟进时，我喜欢提供一些新信息，无论是他们过去几天发布的推文，还是他们写的新文章，非常尊重。

I try to wait three or four days.

我试着等三四天。

If it's not going anywhere, then try someone else.

如果它没有任何进展，那就尝试其他人。

Do that three or four times with the most relevant reporters.

与最相关的记者一起这样做三到四次。

Generally, I think it works.

一般来说，我认为它有效。

Yeah, I think if you can just be really concise and direct and say what you're looking for out of the relationship, it tends to be a pretty easy process.

是的，我认为如果你能非常简洁和直接地说出你想从这段关系中寻找什么，这往往是一个非常简单的过程。

And yeah, TechCrunch is one publication, but this actually goes for a bunch.

是的，TechCrunch 是一份出版物，但这实际上适用于一堆出版物。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

I love that we're already getting into tactical advice for how to actually get press.

我很高兴我们已经就如何真正获得媒体提供了战术建议。

So that was essentially for fundraising and the notes I took is keep it really simple, "Here's how much we raise, here's our investors.

所以这本质上是为了筹款，我记下的笔记非常简单，“这是我们筹集的金额，这是我们的投资者。

Here's one line about why this matters." I want to talk later about how pitching press is different for customers, because with customers, I think this is probably the mistake a lot of people make, and we don't have to get into this just yet, but you want to paint the picture of the market and trends and, "Here's where the market's going and why this is huge and why this is a solution to your problem," versus, "Bam, this is interesting for this reason," and that's it.

这里有一句话说明了为什么这很重要。”稍后我想谈谈推销媒体对客户来说有何不同，因为对于客户来说，我认为这可能是很多人都会犯的错误，我们还不必讨论这个问题，但你想描绘市场和趋势的图景，“这就是市场的发展方向，为什么这是巨大的，为什么这是解决你的问题的解决方案”，而不是“巴姆，因为这个原因这很有趣”，就是这样。

Lenny: Okay.

莱尼：好的。

I want to talk about publications to target and what each one is best suited for.

我想谈谈目标出版物以及每种出版物最适合的用途。

So you're talking about how TechCrunch is essentially really good for fundraising.

所以你谈论的是 TechCrunch 本质上对于筹款有什么好处。

When I think about other publications, there's like Axios and Verge, I don't know if they do press stories like this.

当我想到其他出版物时，比如 Axios 和 Verge，我不知道他们是否也做这样的新闻报道。

Wall Street Journal, New York Times, things like that.

华尔街日报、纽约时报等等。

So I guess, what are the different publications people should have on their list of target?

所以我想，人们的目标清单上应该有哪些不同的出版物？

And then, what are each of them most aligned to, story-wise?

然后，从故事角度来看，他们每个人最符合的是什么？

Emilie Gerber: I really love this question.

艾米莉·格伯：我真的很喜欢这个问题。

I feel like no one ever gets this tactical in PR.

我觉得没有人在公关领域懂得这一策略。

There's just so much theoretical conversation and examining the big blunders and...

有太多的理论对话和检查重大错误......

It's all so high level, but at the end of the day, if you are a startup that wants to get coverage for your company, you need to know actually the steps to take to do it.

这一切都如此高水平，但归根结底，如果您是一家想要为您的公司获得保险的初创公司，您需要知道实际需要采取的步骤。

So yeah, I appreciate that question.

是的，我很欣赏这个问题。

I'm going to answer it, but also answer it with the caveat that media changes so much and so fast.

我要回答这个问题，但同时也要警告说，媒体变化如此之大、如此之快。

For instance, just a couple weeks ago, TechCrunch decided they no longer accept op-eds, which is...

例如，就在几周前，TechCrunch 决定不再接受专栏文章，这是......

It's actually huge news for us, because we love doing op-eds in TechCrunch, and so things change all the time, but I will talk about it in its current state.

这对我们来说实际上是一个大新闻，因为我们喜欢在 TechCrunch 上发表专栏，所以事情一直在变化，但我会以目前的状态来谈论它。

So yes, TechCrunch, a go-to for a lot of funding announcements.

所以，是的，TechCrunch 是许多融资公告的首选。

A go-to for some product news, too, even sometimes.

甚至有时也是一些产品新闻的首选。

Emilie Gerber: I would say the areas where they don't have dedicated beat reporters, where we tend to end up not working with them, are health tech-related companies and even MarTech, too.

Emilie Gerber：我想说的是，他们没有专门的记者的领域，我们往往最终不与他们合作，是健康技术相关的公司，甚至是 MarTech。

We've struggled to find the right folks to cover those kinds of stories.

我们一直在努力寻找合适的人来报道这类故事。

So not everything, but generally, if you do your digging, you're able to find a relevant beat reporter or a couple of relevant beat reporters, and it's not just about getting coverage there.

所以不是一切，但一般来说，如果你进行挖掘，你可以找到一个或几个相关的beat记者，而且这不仅仅是在那里获得报道。

They have TechCrunch Disrupt, you can apply for speaking at that conference, and that sometimes actually directly turns into coverage.

他们有 TechCrunch Disrupt，你可以申请在该会议上发言，有时实际上会直接变成报道。

They have The Found Podcast, which interviews founders, and so if you have a really compelling founder story or topical founder story, that can be an excellent avenue to go as well.

他们有 The Found 播客，采访创始人，所以如果你有一个真正引人注目的创始人故事或热门创始人故事，这也可能是一个很好的途径。

They have The Equity Pod, which is investment advice, so it's not just thinking about getting that one funding story with them, there are other ways to work with TechCrunch.

他们有 The Equity Pod，这是一种投资建议，所以我们不仅仅考虑与他们一起了解一个融资故事，还有其他方式与 TechCrunch 合作。

Emilie Gerber: And I actually have heard really great feedback from clients on TechCrunch driving website traffic, the day of the announcement, especially...

Emilie Gerber：事实上，我从客户那里听到了关于 TechCrunch 推动网站流量的非常好的反馈，在发布当天，尤其是......

I haven't really been able to pinpoint when that does or doesn't happen.

我真的无法确定什么时候会发生或不会发生。

I'm trying to figure out if there's trends among that, but I have...

我试图弄清楚其中是否存在趋势，但我...

Clients have sent me screenshots from the day of the announcement and they've seen a nice pickup from TechCrunch, so I think a lot of that comes down to the fact that they don't have a paywall, but their stuff tends to do really well.

客户向我发送了发布当天的屏幕截图，他们在 TechCrunch 上看到了不错的表现，所以我认为这很大程度上归因于他们没有付费专区，但他们的产品往往表现得非常好。

So it's a great spot, especially for that first piece on your company.

所以这是一个很棒的地方，特别是对于您公司的第一篇文章。

Axios is really strong on the FinTech side, on the healthcare side, they have some really great beat reporters.

Axios 在金融科技方面非常强大，在医疗保健方面，他们有一些非常出色的记者。

The one thing I'll say about them is they're very deals-focused, so 100% would need to either have funding.

关于他们我要说的一件事是他们非常注重交易，所以 100% 要么需要资金。

If you're announcing a partnership that has a monetary component, that they would cover that.

如果您宣布建立具有货币成分的合作伙伴关系，他们将涵盖这一点。

An acquisition they would consider covering, but they're not going to be...

他们会考虑进行收购，但他们不会……

You should never pitch them on a product announcement.

你永远不应该在产品公告中向他们推销。

Emilie Gerber: And I think they might just get annoyed.

艾米莉·格伯：我认为他们可能会生气。

There's a couple exceptions, a couple of the reporters might have little columns where they feature product-related things, but that's just not their bread and butter.

有一些例外，一些记者可能有一些小专栏，其中介绍与产品相关的内容，但这不是他们的面包和黄油。

And actually, Axios recently launched, or I guess has been launching over the past year or so, local editions.

事实上，Axios 最近推出了本地版本，或者我猜在过去一年左右的时间里一直在推出本地版本。

So they're really branching into local news, and so that can actually be a really nice way to get an Axios hit if you have a region-specific story.

所以他们确实涉足本地新闻，如果你有特定地区的故事，这实际上是获得 Axios 关注的一个非常好的方式。

So I highly recommend checking that out.

所以我强烈建议您检查一下。

Another publication that we work with a bunch is Business Insider.

另一份与我们合作的出版物是《商业内幕》。

If you struggle to pitch your funding story but really want it out in the world, they are big on the pitch deck stories.

如果你很难推销你的融资故事，但又真的希望它在全世界范围内传播，那么他们在宣传材料上的故事很重要。

Those are a little controversial.

这些都有点争议。

Some founders, they're like, "This is not what I want my story to be about, I do not want to share my pitch deck."

有些创始人会说，“这不是我想要的故事，我不想分享我的融资方案。”

Emilie Gerber: But if you are in the camp of...

艾米莉·格伯：但是如果你在……的阵营中

You're open to that and you can redact, it does not need to have all the financials, it does not need to have the growth metrics, that can be a really great way to get a piece of coverage on your business.

您对此持开放态度，并且可以进行编辑，它不需要拥有所有财务数据，不需要具有增长指标，这可能是获得业务覆盖范围的真正好方法。

And the way that I explain it to clients is you're just getting all your core messages out there in a very direct way.

我向客户解释的方式是，您只需以非常直接的方式传达所有核心信息即可。

You're sharing exactly what you shared with investors, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

你所分享的正是你与投资者分享的内容，这不一定是坏事。

And sometimes clients will put in some customer slides, too, and so you can really make it a little bit more like what you're looking for.

有时客户也会放入一些客户幻灯片，因此您确实可以使其更像您正在寻找的内容。

So yes, if you're looking for a funding story, TechCrunch passed, others passed, that's a good option.

所以，是的，如果你正在寻找一个融资故事，TechCrunch 通过了，其他人也通过了，那是一个不错的选择。

They also are huge on the entrepreneurial journey pieces, similar to the CNBC article that you got, but they really want metrics, they really push for metrics, so how much you're making, how much you're spending.

他们在创业旅程方面也很重要，类似于你得到的 CNBC 文章，但他们真的想要指标，他们真的推动指标，所以你赚了多少，花了多少钱。

Emilie Gerber: They love those kinds of stories, so it's not necessarily about how much you raise, but for people that have really built a business.

Emilie Gerber：他们喜欢这类故事，所以这不一定与你筹集了多少资金有关，而是与那些真正建立了企业的人有关。

And then the last thing for Business Insider, they do a bunch of these lists of top startups, of top professionals in the field.

《商业内幕》的最后一件事是，他们列出了一系列顶级初创公司和该领域顶级专业人士的名单。

We love doing those, they're generally a really light list, and they put out a call for submissions.

我们喜欢这样做，它们通常是一个非常简单的列表，并且他们呼吁提交。

Takes five minutes and it's a way to get into Business Insider.

只需五分钟，这是进入 Business Insider 的一种方式。

There's so many of them, it's become a joke within my newsletter, because every week, there's five more and it's the most obscure different categories.

它们太多了，这已经成为我的时事通讯中的一个笑话，因为每周都会有五个以上的类别，而且是最晦涩难懂的不同类别。

Like top sports marketing professionals helping TikTok stars.

就像顶级体育营销专业人士帮助 TikTok 明星一样。

I don't know, it's always a very niche ask, but those could be really great.

我不知道，这始终是一个非常小众的问题，但这些可能真的很棒。

Then a couple more.

然后还有几个。

Emilie Gerber: VentureBeat is huge for AI news.

Emilie Gerber：VentureBeat 对于人工智能新闻来说非常重要。

We pitch them all the time for any client that we work with that is building AI capabilities, has a new offering related to AI, perfect publication for that.

我们一直向与我们合作的任何客户推销它们，这些客户正在构建人工智能能力，拥有与人工智能相关的新产品，这是完美的出版物。

Fast Company is perfect for anything related to future of work, how people work.

Fast Company 非常适合与未来工作、人们工作方式相关的任何事情。

Really great for design, media, I would say perfect for any company that fits in those categories.

对于设计、媒体来说真的很棒，我想说对于任何符合这些类别的公司来说都是完美的。

They're also really open to op-eds, especially with leadership advice in them.

他们也非常乐于接受专栏文章，尤其是其中的领导建议。

And last but not least, on the list of ones that we work with most often, I would say is Forbes.

最后但并非最不重要的一点是，在我们最常合作的名单上，我想说的是《福布斯》。

Especially on the award side, they have the FinTech 50, AI 50, Forbes Under 30, all of that.

特别是在奖项方面，他们有金融科技 50 强、人工智能 50 强、福布斯 30 岁以下人物等等。

And you're not going to get a feature with one of their main reporters until you're a bit further along, but they do have that really strong contributor network, which is much...

在你进一步了解之前，你不会得到他们的主要记者之一的专题报道，但他们确实拥有非常强大的贡献者网络，这非常......

A lower bar in what they'll accept, in a way.

在某种程度上，他们接受的标准较低。

They're more open to covering earlier stage companies, so that's worth checking out, too.

他们更愿意报道早期阶段的公司，所以这也值得一试。

So those are my top ones, I'll stop there.

这些是我最喜欢的，我就到此为止。

Lenny: That's amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

And those are the most commonly requested and the ones you mostly go after?

这些是最常要求的，也是您最追求的？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, they're the most realistic for most startups.

Emilie Gerber：是的，对于大多数初创公司来说，它们是最现实的。

There are ones like The Verge, and they're a little more gadget-focused and just areas that we don't necessarily touch, but could be good for some companies as well.

还有像 The Verge 这样的公司，它们更注重小工具，只是我们不一定触及的领域，但也可能对某些公司有利。

Lenny: Got it, and then...

莱尼：明白了，然后……

I was going to say this for later, but there's obviously New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.

我本来打算稍后再说，但显然有《纽约时报》和《华尔街日报》。

Thoughts on going after those?

有想过追求那些吗？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, we do get those questions all the time.

艾米莉·格伯：是的，我们确实经常收到这些问题。

I would say it comes up on calls with founders, "I want one out of every five." And really, when you look at...

我想说的是，它是在与创始人通话时出现的，“我想要五分之一”。真的，当你看到...

I make a joke sometimes like, "If you want those, just have a crisis and they'll write about it." Fire your CEO or do really intense layoffs and have some regulatory issue.

我有时会开玩笑说，“如果你想要这些，只要发生一场危机，他们就会写下来。”解雇你的首席执行官或进行大规模裁员并遇到一些监管问题。

Emilie Gerber: Playoffs and have some regulatory issue and you'll get a story there.

艾米莉·格伯：季后赛和一些监管问题，你会在那里得到一个故事。

Lenny: Uber got a lot of stories there.

莱尼：Uber 在那里有很多故事。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, I can show some examples there.

Emilie Gerber：是的，我可以举一些例子。

When you look at earlier stage companies that are getting coverage in those publications, that's what's happening.

当你观察这些出版物中报道的早期阶段公司时，就会发现这种情况正在发生。

Emilie Gerber: Now, let's say you're a tiny bit further along and you're series B, series C, maybe even series C, and you're looking for coverage in those publications, there's a couple criteria that they're always going to want if it's to write a feature on your company.

艾米莉·格伯：现在，假设您已经取得了一些进展，您是 B 系列、C 系列，甚至 C 系列，并且您正在寻找这些出版物的报道，如果要撰写有关您公司的专题文章，他们总是需要满足几个标准。

One is your valuation, so that needs to be something that you're sharing on the record.

一是您的估值，因此您需要将其记录在案。

Two is your hard business metrics, usually revenue, sometimes something else.

二是硬性业务指标，通常是收入，有时是其他指标。

And so oftentimes they'll tell founders that and immediately they're like, "Oh, well we're not sharing that." So I'm like, "Okay, well that's kind of the end of the conversation." Sometimes it can be shared on background, but as a general rule, you're expected to share that sort of thing.

通常他们会告诉创始人这一点，但他们会立即说：“哦，好吧，我们不会分享这一点。”所以我想，“好吧，谈话就这样结束了。”有时可以在后台共享，但作为一般规则，您应该共享此类内容。

So that's kind of a nonstarter a lot of times.

所以很多时候这都是不可能的。

Emilie Gerber: I totally think it makes sense to build relationships with the relevant beat reporters and ideally shoot for...

Emilie Gerber：我完全认为与相关的 Beat 记者建立关系并理想地拍摄......是有意义的。

When I say build relationships, I just mean shoot for an intro meeting on behalf of the clients, or they can reach out directly with those kinds of reporters, but they're just not going to write a feature on your company.

当我说建立关系时，我只是指代表客户参加一次介绍会议，或者他们可以直接与此类记者联系，但他们只是不会撰写有关您公司的专题报道。

If anything, you are going to be one or two sentences in a larger story of something that they're writing about.

如果有的话，你将成为他们正在写的一个更大的故事中的一两句话。

And yeah, that's just the nature of their coverage.

是的，这就是他们报道的本质。

Emilie Gerber: And then when you look at something like CNBC, they're targeting people that want to learn about public markets.

Emilie Gerber：当你看 CNBC 之类的节目时，他们的目标受众是想要了解公开市场的人。

And so if you're not a public company, they have their CNBC Disruptor 50 list, which is focused on companies that will soon be at that stage, but it's not going to be a place for early stage companies.

因此，如果你不是一家上市公司，他们有 CNBC Disruptor 50 名单，该名单主要关注即将进入该阶段的公司，但不会适合早期公司。

Lenny: When I have these pieces in past company and CNBC, it was such a weird experience where I chat with them for half an hour and then it just comes out, and I have no idea what they're going to write about.

Lenny：当我在过去的公司和 CNBC 上看到这些文章时，这是一种很奇怪的经历，我和他们聊了半个小时，然后内容就出来了，我不知道他们会写什么。

Could be a complete tear down of everything I'm doing and you have no idea.

可能会彻底摧毁我正在做的一切，而你却一无所知。

How do you help try to avoid that sort of story?

您如何帮助避免发生此类故事？

I know you have no control.

我知道你无法控制。

Obviously reporters can write what they want to write about.

显然，记者可以写他们想写的内容。

Do you have any advice for how to avoid them writing something really negative about you?

对于如何避免他们写一些关于你的负面信息，你有什么建议吗？

Emilie Gerber: Generally, if it's something that you're being briefed in advance, unless it is around something negative that's going on, it's just not their intention, it's just not going to happen.

艾米莉·格伯：一般来说，如果你提前收到简报，除非是与正在发生的负面事情有关，否则这不是他们的意图，只是不会发生。

But what is a bigger issue is it not being the angle or the messaging that the company wants.

但更大的问题是这不是公司想要的角度或信息。

And so part of that, there's absolutely nothing that we can do.

因此，我们绝对无能为力。

Reporters are not our employees.

记者不是我们的员工。

We're not paying them to write these pieces.

我们不会付钱让他们写这些文章。

They have to maintain their editorial integrity.

他们必须保持编辑的完整性。

Emilie Gerber: And so I consider it my job to educate the founders and spokespeople that we work with that we cannot change anything the story says.

艾米莉·格伯：所以我认为我的工作是教育与我们合作的创始人和发言人，让他们知道我们无法改变故事中所说的任何内容。

What we can do is correct any factual inaccuracies, and we do that all the time.

我们能做的就是纠正任何不准确的事实，而且我们一直这样做。

If something is factually wrong, we can get it replaced.

如果确实有问题，我们可以更换它。

But if they don't like that they were called, put in a category of software that they don't identify with, that's not something that we can fix.

但如果他们不喜欢这样的称呼，将其归入他们不认同的软件类别，这不是我们可以解决的问题。

Emilie Gerber: Another thing that you can do though to prevent that from happening is just really ensuring that the spokesperson before talking to the reporter is going to nail the messages that they want.

埃米莉·格伯：为了防止这种情况发生，你可以做的另一件事就是确保发言人在与记者交谈之前明确他们想要的信息。

The more that you can reiterate over and over again how you want the article to be, I think the more likely that it'll land in the reporter's head and make sure that the reporter really understands what you're building and what your goals are.

你越能一遍又一遍地重申你想要的文章是什么样子，我认为它就越有可能落在记者的脑海中，并确保记者真正理解你正在构建的内容和你的目标是什么。

And all you can do is really use the briefing and the materials that you provide to kind of sway and influence, but there's not much beyond that.

你能做的就是真正利用你提供的简报和材料来产生影响和影响，但除此之外就没有什么了。

Lenny: So we've talked about all these publications.

莱尼：我们已经讨论了所有这些出版物。

These are ones to consider going after.

这些都是值得考虑的。

You also mentioned podcasts and awards as something people go after.

您还提到播客和奖项是人们追求的东西。

Is there a tip you could share of how to find aligned podcasts or awards, like how you find a list of here we should go after these?

您是否可以分享如何找到一致的播客或奖项的技巧，例如如何找到我们应该追求的列表？

Emilie Gerber: We use Google.

艾米莉·格伯：我们使用谷歌。

We just use search engines basically for finding everything.

我们基本上只是使用搜索引擎来查找所有内容。

And the way that we go about it is first figuring out who their customers are and what vertical they're in, and then just doing searches for podcasts that are within that vertical.

我们的做法是首先弄清楚他们的客户是谁以及他们所处的垂直领域，然后搜索该垂直领域内的播客。

Emilie Gerber: But it's not as easy as just reaching out to the ones that pop up first.

Emilie Gerber：但这并不像直接接触最先出现的人那么容易。

The next step is a qualitative analysis.

下一步是定性分析。

First of all, do they have vendor CEOs or vendor executives on their show?

首先，他们的节目中是否有供应商首席执行官或供应商高管？

Let's say your product is sold to product managers.

假设您的产品出售给产品经理。

Maybe they only have product managers on the show.

也许他们的节目中只有产品经理。

So instead you don't put the CEO forward and you put the right spokesperson-

因此，你不用任命首席执行官，而是任命合适的发言人——

Lenny: Who could that be?

莱尼：那会是谁？

What podcast might that be referring to?

这可能指的是哪个播客？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, right?

埃米莉·格伯：是啊，对吧？

But this could be for CFOs.

但这可能适用于首席财务官。

So let's say you sell into CFOs.

假设您向首席财务官出售产品。

Don't pitch your CEO for that podcast.

不要向你的首席执行官推销那个播客。

Get a CFO and then pitch your CFO for that podcast.

找一位首席财务官，然后为该播客推销你的首席财务官。

I'm very for companies hiring folks, or hiring so the roles that they sell into, it helps us a lot.

我非常支持公司招聘员工，或者招聘他们所推销的职位，这对我们有很大帮助。

So if your audience is a CFO, it really helps if you have a CFO.

因此，如果您的受众是首席财务官，那么您拥有首席财务官确实会有所帮助。

If your audience is a CMO, it really helps if you have a CMO, and that actually when your earlier stage isn't always the case, and so it's a lot harder to pitch.

如果你的受众是首席营销官，那么如果你有首席营销官，这确实会有所帮助，而实际上，当你的早期阶段情况并非总是如此时，因此推销会更加困难。

So I think that's the second part of the qualitative analysis.

所以我认为这是定性分析的第二部分。

Emilie Gerber: The third is, podcasts really come and go, make sure...

Emilie Gerber：第三个是，播客确实来来去去，请确保......

It sounds obvious, but make sure it's one that's actively producing.

这听起来很明显，但要确保它是一个正在积极生产的产品。

When you Google ones, half of them are not going to be active podcasts.

当你用谷歌搜索时，其中一半不会是活跃的播客。

And then the third is actually listening to at least part of one episode, making sure the quality is high, making sure it's the kind of thing you even want to associate yourself with.

第三步实际上是至少听一集的一部分，确保质量高，确保它是你想要与之联系起来的那种东西。

And then just looking at who the past guests are, is that the kind of peers that you want to associate yourself with?

然后看看过去的客人是谁，这是你想要结交的同龄人吗？

Emilie Gerber: And then one other thing that you can do is just in conversations with customers, find out what they're listening to, find out what they're watching, find out their media diet.

艾米莉·格伯：然后你可以做的另一件事就是与客户对话，了解他们在听什么，在看什么，了解他们的媒体饮食。

And it doesn't have to be a big crazy survey that you send to your entire customer base.

而且它不必是发送给整个客户群的大型疯狂调查。

It can be casual.

它可以是休闲的。

If you're farther along, it's great if you can make that a more formal sort of process, but it doesn't necessarily need to be.

如果您已经走得更远，如果您可以将其变成更正式的流程，那就太好了，但这并不一定需要。

Emilie Gerber: And then in terms of reaching out, I highly recommend figuring out who the host is, just doing the research, figuring out who the host is, and then just sending them a casual note.

艾米莉·格伯：然后就联系而言，我强烈建议弄清楚主持人是谁，只需进行研究，找出主持人是谁，然后向他们发送一条随意的便条。

I'm a big fan of just reaching out on LinkedIn and saying, "Hey, love the show.

我非常喜欢在 LinkedIn 上联系并说：“嘿，喜欢这个节目。

Are you open to guest ideas?" I don't even mention the client or anything, just opening the door.

您愿意接受客人的想法吗？”我什至没有提到客户什么的，只是打开门。

I just feel like that's so much more approachable and friendly than starting with a big pitch.

我只是觉得这比从大范围开始更平易近人、更友好。

And I think so many people start with this very long email introducing themselves or going really deep and you don't have to do that.

我认为很多人都会从这封很长的电子邮件开始自我介绍或深入了解，但你不必这样做。

And especially because maybe only one out of every 10 replies, it'll also save you a lot of time if you just start with something really lightweight.

尤其是因为可能只有十分之一的回复，如果您从真正轻量级的东西开始，它也会为您节省大量时间。

Lenny: I think that actually works really well.

莱尼：我认为这实际上非常有效。

That's what I find is if it's a simple little message, I'm like, yeah, let me know what you got in mind.

这就是我发现的，如果这是一条简单的小信息，我会说，是的，让我知道你的想法。

Even though 99% of the time it doesn't work out, sometimes it works out great.

尽管 99% 的情况下它都不起作用，但有时效果很好。

And so I find, sure, let's just see what you got.

所以我发现，当然，让我们看看你得到了什么。

And then usually I'm just like, "Nope, sorry, not a fit."

然后我通常会说，“不，抱歉，不合适。”

Emilie Gerber: And you get the reply that way.

Emilie Gerber：这样你就能得到答复。

If you send the initial pitch and the reporter or podcast host isn't interested, chances are they won't reply.

如果您发送初始推介，但记者或播客主持人不感兴趣，他们很可能不会回复。

But if you just start with something friendly and they reply, they'll feel like, I guess a little more of a connection there, and so at least you'll get an answer.

但如果你只是从一些友好的事情开始，然后他们回复，他们会觉得，我想那里有更多的联系，所以至少你会得到答案。

Whereas otherwise, you might not get an answer at all.

否则，您可能根本得不到答案。

Lenny: On the survey piece I think that's a great idea, and I've seen a few of my sponsors do this where they ask their customers, what podcast do you listen to?

莱尼：在调查中，我认为这是一个好主意，我看到我的一些赞助商这样做，他们询问他们的客户，你听什么播客？

What newsletters do you read?

您阅读哪些时事通讯？

Which is such a simple idea, but I think people don't do that.

这是一个非常简单的想法，但我认为人们不会这样做。

And just from that you could figure out, okay, here's the podcast we got to get on.

仅凭这一点你就可以知道，好吧，这是我们要收听的播客。

Here's the newsletters we want to run after.

这是我们想要追踪的时事通讯。

Lenny: I want to talk about how to actually pitch well.

莱尼：我想谈谈如何真正做好推销。

But before that, we've been talking a bit about who to reach out to and how to do that.

但在此之前，我们已经讨论过应该联系谁以及如何联系。

So there's a few questions here.

所以这里有几个问题。

It's just like how important is it to have a warm connection to a reporter?

就像与记者保持温暖的联系有多重要？

If you don't have that, what's the best way to reach out to them?

如果您没有，联系他们的最佳方式是什么？

Is it LinkedIn, is it Twitter DMs, something else?

是 LinkedIn、Twitter DM 还是其他？

What advice do you have about, just before we get into the structure of the pitch, figuring out who to pitch and then how to get to that advice?

在我们进入推介结构之前，您有什么建议，弄清楚向谁推介以及如何获得这些建议？

Emilie Gerber: Who are your relationships question comes up on a lot of our calls with founders as well.

Emilie Gerber：我们与创始人的很多电话中也出现了你的关系问题。

I'd like to pose the question to you.

我想向你提出这个问题。

Did we have a relationship before this?

我们之前有过关系吗？

Emilie Gerber: Exactly.

埃米莉·格伯：没错。

I'm of the belief that it does not matter as much as many people think it does.

我相信这并不像许多人想象的那么重要。

And I explained this on calls where they ask, "Oh, tell me about your Rolodex, or who is your relationships with?" First of all, media's changing so fast.

我在电话中解释了这一点，他们问：“哦，告诉我你的名片盒，或者你和谁有关系？”首先，媒体变化如此之快。

So sure, maybe there is a reporter that we worked with recently.

当然，也许有一位我们最近合作过的记者。

They might have a completely different beat in six months.

六个月后他们可能会有完全不同的节奏。

They might be at a very different publication.

他们可能在一个非常不同的出版物上。

So it's not sustainable to build an entire career on having relationships with certain publications.

因此，将整个职业生涯建立在与某些出版物的关系上是不可持续的。

Emilie Gerber: And media is changing too.

Emilie Gerber：媒体也在发生变化。

Now, podcasts and Substack and newsletters, it is just changing too fast.

现在，播客、Substack 和时事通讯，变化太快了。

And so I think cold outreach done well is just as effective.

因此，我认为冷外展做得好同样有效。

The only thing that a relationship will get you is an open and an answer.

一段关系能给你带来的唯一的东西就是一个开放的答案。

And so any good reporter is not going to be making their editorial decisions based on who their friends are.

因此，任何优秀的记者都不会根据他们的朋友是谁来做出编辑决定。

That's just not the nature.

这不是本性。

It shouldn't be the nature of the industry, and it's not.

这不应该是这个行业的本质，也不是。

Maybe it'll get you an intro coffee, but that's about it.

也许它会给你一杯介绍咖啡，但仅此而已。

It's not going to get you coverage.

它不会让你得到保险。

They're not going to cover your news because there's a relationship there.

他们不会报道你的新闻，因为那里有关系。

I think the much harder and more important part is being good at writing really thoughtful notes to the right people.

我认为更难也更重要的部分是善于向合适的人写真正深思熟虑的笔记。

Emilie Gerber: And in a way, now we do have a relationship, and so it can come from a cold email, but now it's easier for me to pitch you because you know my name and we've spoken and we've worked together.

埃米莉·格伯：在某种程度上，现在我们确实建立了关系，所以它可以来自一封冷淡的电子邮件，但现在我更容易向您推销，因为您知道我的名字，我们已经谈过并且我们一起工作过。

And so for me, I'm a big fan of being helpful to reporters, and I tend to just keep it professional and pitch them on stories.

所以对我来说，我非常热衷于为记者提供帮助，而且我倾向于保持专业并向他们介绍故事。

I don't necessarily feel like going to drinks or having coffee all the time is crucial to building those relationships.

我不一定觉得一直喝酒或喝咖啡对于建立这些关系至关重要。

A lot of the reporters that I work with regularly, I've never met in person, and that's okay, but it can be great for getting answers I would say.

我经常与很多记者合作，但我从未亲自见过面，这没关系，但我想说，这对于获得答案非常有用。

That's where the relationships can be helpful.

这就是人际关系可以发挥作用的地方。

Emilie Gerber: And then once you have worked with a reporter on a story, it's true that maybe they'll be more likely to come back when they're working on something related, use you as a source, quote you in articles that are relevant.

埃米莉·格伯：一旦你与记者合作报道一个故事，他们确实更有可能在处理相关的事情时回来，将你作为消息来源，在相关的文章中引用你的内容。

So once there's something there, that's great and you should totally nurture it, but it's not all about calling in favors.

因此，一旦有东西存在，那就太好了，你应该完全培育它，但这并不全是为了寻求帮助。

Lenny: Awesome.

莱尼：太棒了。

Okay.

好的。

And then in terms of how to reach reporters, what do you find most effective?

那么就如何联系记者而言，您认为什么最有效？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, I'm pro all platform approach.

Emilie Gerber：是的，我支持全平台方法。

So sometimes reporters will tweet that they're working on a story about something, and rather than me sending them an email with my pitch, I'll say, "Hey, 10 words on why this person is the person you should talk to," and then send a link to an article on them and that's my entire pitch.

因此，有时记者会发推文说他们正在撰写有关某件事的报道，而不是我向他们发送一封包含我的推介的电子邮件，我会说，“嘿，用 10 个字来解释为什么这个人是你应该与之交谈的人”，然后发送一个关于他们的文章的链接，这就是我的整个推介。

And honestly, it's sometimes more effective than when I spend 30 minutes writing a really thoughtful email.

老实说，有时这比我花 30 分钟写一封真正深思熟虑的电子邮件更有效。

So I'm a fan of that.

所以我很喜欢这个。

I'm a fan of DMs, short, concise, direct DMs.

我是 DM 的粉丝，简短、简洁、直接的 DM。

Sometimes LinkedIn, although for whatever reason I feel like that works better with on the podcast side with hosts.

有时是LinkedIn，尽管出于某种原因，我觉得在播客方面与主持人一起使用效果更好。

Emilie Gerber: And then of course email, we totally email.

Emilie Gerber：当然还有电子邮件，我们完全是通过电子邮件。

When I email a reporter, I love to make the subject line just as clear as possible as what the goal is and why I'm emailing them.

当我给记者发电子邮件时，我喜欢让主题尽可能清楚地说明目标是什么以及为什么要给他们发电子邮件。

And so let's say it's for a recurring column that they have, I'll put the name of that column and the person that I think should be included in the subject line.

假设这是他们拥有的一个经常性专栏，我会将该专栏的名称以及我认为应该包含在主题行中的人员放在一起。

And even that for a reporter, it's like, oh, they actually know.

即使对于记者来说，这就像，哦，他们实际上知道。

They actually know I write this column and they're suggesting a guest for this column.

他们实际上知道我写了这个专栏，并且他们正在为这个专栏推荐一位嘉宾。

It's so direct, it's so clear.

就是这么直接、这么清楚。

Emilie Gerber: I think just saying what your intentions are right away.

Emilie Gerber：我想马上说出你的意图。

Are you trying to get a Q&A?

您想获得问答吗？

Are you trying to get a story?

你想听一个故事吗？

Are you trying to get a funding story, like I mentioned before, is very crucial, and keeping it short.

就像我之前提到的，你是否想获得一个融资故事，这一点非常重要，而且要简短。

I would say my most successful pitches are three sentences and anytime...

我想说我最成功的推销是三句话，并且任何时候......

Sometimes it needs to be longer than that, and generally I feel like my pitch is weaker for that reason.

有时它需要比这更长，而且通常我觉得我的音调因此而较弱。

Attention spans are short, and so the more concise you can make it, the better.

注意力持续时间很短，因此你的注意力越简洁越好。

And then just sometimes I'll start with one platform.

有时我会从一个平台开始。

I'll start with an email and that doesn't work, so I'll go somewhere else.

我将从电子邮件开始，但这不起作用，所以我会去其他地方。

But I try to make it very human and respectful.

但我努力让它变得非常人性化和尊重。

So using language like, "Hey, I know your inbox is probably slammed.

所以使用这样的语言，“嘿，我知道你的收件箱可能被猛击了。

Sorry to annoy.

抱歉打扰了。

Trying you one more time here."

在这里再考验你一次。”

Emilie Gerber: Another thing that actually can work really well is pointing out gaps in their coverage too, and talking about things that they should be talking about.

Emilie Gerber：另一件真正有效的事情是指出他们报道中的差距，并谈论他们应该谈论的事情。

Like, Hey, my client's noticing this trend.

就像，嘿，我的客户注意到了这种趋势。

I know you've covered it from this point of view, but no one's talking about it from this point of view.

我知道你已经从这个角度讨论了它，但没有人从这个角度谈论它。

That can be really helpful because it shows that you are actually paying attention to what they are writing, but in a way that you're demonstrating that you have some critical thinking going on, not just, I liked your article on X, which is a common practice that PR people use is I like this, and then jump to your pitch.

这确实很有帮助，因为它表明你实际上正在关注他们所写的内容，但在某种程度上你正在证明你正在进行一些批判性思维，而不仅仅是我喜欢你关于 X 的文章，这是公关人员使用的常见做法是“我喜欢这样”，然后跳到你的演讲。

So yeah, giving it a little more thoughtful, pointing out gaps in coverage.

所以，是的，要更加深思熟虑，指出覆盖范围上的差距。

Emilie Gerber: And then the last piece is, especially if you don't have hard news that you're pitching, having something pretty controversial to say.

艾米莉·格伯：最后一点是，特别是如果你没有要推销的硬新闻，那就要说一些颇具争议的事情。

Emilie Gerber: So we work with a lot of AI companies.

Emilie Gerber：所以我们与很多人工智能公司合作。

If nine of them have one stance on something happening in the field and one has the other stance, chances are that one is going to be the one that a reporter wants to talk to because they are getting so many pitches on this topic, but they want to write a balanced article, they need that opposing view.

如果其中九个人对现场发生的事情持一种立场，而其中一个持另一种立场，那么很可能其中一个人会成为记者想要交谈的人，因为他们在这个话题上得到了很多宣传，但他们想写一篇平衡的文章，他们需要反对的观点。

And so we really push our clients to have something unique and different and bold to say.

因此，我们确实敦促客户说出一些独特、不同、大胆的东西。

And it obviously has to be a strategic decision for the business.

显然，这必须是企业的战略决策。

You don't want to go commenting on regulatory things if it sounds like you don't want to necessarily be a part of that conversation, but there are I think instances where it can make a lot of sense to say something that's a little bit bold and controversial.

如果听起来你不想参与对话，那么你就不想对监管问题发表评论，但我认为在某些情况下，说出一些有点大胆和有争议的事情是很有意义的。

Lenny: That last piece is really interesting.

莱尼：最后那段真的很有趣。

Is there an example that comes to mind where you had a controversial contrarian pitch?

您是否想到过一个有争议的逆向推销的例子？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, so we work with a company called Clockwise, which essentially manages your calendar and allows time for focus time within your workday.

Emilie Gerber：是的，所以我们与一家名为 Clockwise 的公司合作，该公司主要管理您的日历，并为您在工作日提供集中时间。

They move things around for you.

他们为你搬运东西。

And a couple of months ago, Shopify got tons of positive press for essentially canceling all their recurring meetings, and everyone was very intrigued by this strategy.

几个月前，Shopify 因取消所有定期会议而受到大量正面报道，每个人都对这一策略非常感兴趣。

Press was generally quite positive towards it, and so we knew that if we just wrote another piece saying, "Oh, this is great," no one would want to publish that.

媒体普遍对此持积极态度，所以我们知道，如果我们只是写另一篇文章说：“哦，这太棒了”，没有人愿意发表它。

It had been said in a million different ways.

人们已经用一百万种不同的方式说过这句话。

So we looked at the topic a little more critically and we're like, okay, is this actually enough to change meeting culture within a business?

因此，我们更加批判性地审视了这个主题，我们想，好吧，这实际上足以改变企业内的会议文化吗？

And we kind of identified all these other things that we think need to happen in order to really change the culture in a way that's going to be sustainable and long-term versus just blanket deleting of calendar meetings.

我们还确定了我们认为需要发生的所有其他事情，以便以可持续和长期的方式真正改变文化，而不是一揽子删除日历会议。

Emilie Gerber: And so we ended up turning this into an op-ed, so something that together we wrote and then pitched a publication.

艾米莉·格伯：所以我们最终把这篇文章变成了一篇专栏文章，我们一起写了一些东西，然后发表了一份出版物。

And yeah, the title was "Shopify's Meeting Cost Calculator Does Not Address the Issue of Wasted Time".

是的，标题是“Shopify 的会议成本计算器没有解决浪费时间的问题”。

And so it wasn't necessarily saying it was a horrible idea, but it was putting a little bit more of a critical eye towards it.

因此，它并不一定说这是一个可怕的想法，但它对它采取了更多的批判眼光。

And Fast Company was interested in the idea and they posted the piece by the CEO, Matt Martin, and it was a great thing for us to comment on.

Fast Company 对这个想法很感兴趣，他们发布了首席执行官马特·马丁 (Matt Martin) 的文章，我们对此发表评论是一件很棒的事情。

And so yeah, I think it doesn't necessarily need to be something where you're coming out against it, but just proposing something that's a little more thoughtful on the topic.

所以，是的，我认为你不一定要站出来反对它，而只是提出一些对这个话题更深思熟虑的东西。

Lenny: Just hearing that it sounds like such an obvious thing to do.

莱尼：只是听说这听起来是理所当然的事情。

Basically a reporter is looking for an interesting story to write about.

基本上，记者正在寻找一个有趣的故事来写。

If you tell them something interesting that they could put out, that's a win-win for everybody.

如果你告诉他们一些他们可以发布的有趣的事情，这对每个人来说都是双赢的。

So makes a ton of sense.

所以很有道理。

Let me try to summarize the advice you've shared so far when you're, say DMing a reporter, your advice so far is basically be very direct.

让我尝试总结一下您迄今为止所分享的建议，例如，当您向记者发私信时，您迄今为止的建议基本上是非常直接的。

Just tell them, "Hey, I'm looking for..." What's an example of being direct?

只要告诉他们，“嘿，我在找……”什么是直接的例子？

Is it like I'm looking for a story on this fundraising announcement?

我是在寻找有关此筹款公告的故事吗？

Emilie Gerber: I wouldn't say I'm looking for.

Emilie Gerber：我不会说我在寻找。

I don't know, just I would say if it was a DM, I would say, "Reaching out from X company.

我不知道，只是我会说，如果是 DM，我会说，“从 X 公司联系。

Would love to offer you the launch story alongside their funding if you're open to it." And usually I'd either say the amount and the investors or the company name.

如果您愿意的话，我很乐意向您提供发布故事以及他们的资金。”通常我要么说金额和投资者，要么说公司名称。

If you give them both, you're kind of just giving them the story and they could run with it right away.

如果你给他们两个，你就只是给他们故事，他们可以立即运行。

That's actually an important distinction.

这实际上是一个重要的区别。

And so you could either say, "Reaching out with this Martech company that's raised 8 million from X Investors.

所以你可以说，“与这家 Martech 公司合作，该公司从 X Investors 筹集了 800 万美元。

Really interesting approach, they're taking on X incumbent.

非常有趣的方法，他们正在挑战 X 现任者。

Do you want the exclusive?" That's kind of how I would phrase it.

你想要独家的吗？”我就是这么表达的。

Lenny: Okay, awesome.

莱尼：好的，太棒了。

Then, try to keep it to three sentences.

然后，尽量将其控制在三句话内。

And you're saying sometimes when you go longer, you actually end up backfiring each time.

你说有时当你走得更远时，实际上每次都会适得其反。

Sometimes include a link to a story they've written or some other story about the company that might give them some context.

有时包括他们写的故事的链接或可能为他们提供一些背景信息的有关公司的其他故事。

Is that right?

是这样吗？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah.

埃米莉·格伯：是的。

And a caveat on that is, if a competing publication just wrote a bigger similar feature on that, they're not going to want to see that.

需要注意的是，如果竞争对手的出版物只是就此写了一篇更大的类似专题，他们就不会想看到这一点。

And so I would use that strategically.

所以我会战略性地使用它。

If it's a piece from a while ago on a different topic that does share a lot of info, I'll include it, but I'm not necessarily going to include something that might seem like why would I cover this when this was just written about.

如果这是不久前关于不同主题的一篇文章，确实分享了很多信息，我会包含它，但我不一定会包含一些看起来像为什么我要在刚刚写这篇文章时涵盖它的内容。

Lenny: Good point.

莱尼：说得好。

You also talked about how try to acknowledge their inbox is probably slammed, and this is taking some time maybe in follow-ups, especially like, Hey, I realize your inbox is slammed, just thought I'd come back to this.

您还谈到了如何尝试承认他们的收件箱可能被猛击，这可能需要一些时间在后续行动中，特别是像，嘿，我意识到您的收件箱被猛击，只是想我会回来讨论这个。

Then you talk about this idea of identifying gaps in the writing, like, Hey, it seems like you cover Gen AI.

然后你谈到了识别写作中的差距的想法，比如，嘿，看起来你涵盖了 Gen AI。

There's this trend that we've been noticing that maybe it would be interesting to cover.

我们已经注意到这种趋势，也许报道起来会很有趣。

And then something controversial or something a little contrarian that would get them.

然后一些有争议的事情或者一些有点逆向的事情就会吸引他们。

Oh yeah, this could be a really interesting story.

哦，是的，这可能是一个非常有趣的故事。

Lenny: Is there anything else broadly in terms of pitch advice to get the attention of a reporter that comes to mind?

莱尼：在推销建议方面，还有其他什么可以引起记者注意的吗？

And I know this is a lifetime of experience and it's hard to summarize all of it, but anything else?

我知道这是一生的经历，很难总结所有这些，但还有其他的吗？

Emilie Gerber: Well, one topic, maybe this would be covered elsewhere, but one topic I think is talking about incumbents that this company is taking on.

艾米莉·格伯：嗯，有一个话题，也许这会在其他地方讨论，但我认为有一个话题是谈论这家公司正在承担的现任者。

So a lot of companies want to position themselves as category creators, and I actually hate that.

所以很多公司都想把自己定位为品类创造者，而我其实很讨厌这样。

It doesn't work.

这不起作用。

It doesn't land with press, and most of the time it's not totally true.

它不会被媒体报道，而且大多数时候它并不完全正确。

Emilie Gerber: And so instead, it's actually really great when you can talk about how you are doing what X household name does, but better for X reasons, and that works so well.

Emilie Gerber：相反，当你可以谈论你是如何做某个家喻户晓的名字所做的事情时，这实际上真的很棒，但出于某些原因更好，而且效果非常好。

I'll put that in subject lines.

我会将其放在主题行中。

I'll put company taking on whatever Salesforce with X approach.

我会让公司采用任何 Salesforce with X 方法。

It's so successful because instantly it gives the reporter a frame of reference.

它之所以如此成功，是因为它立即为记者提供了一个参考框架。

And so it gives the reporter, oh, I know what Salesforce does, so I can understand how this solution would be better.

所以它让记者知道，哦，我知道 Salesforce 是做什么的，所以我可以理解这个解决方案如何更好。

And a lot of companies really want to position themselves as the first to do anything in a certain space.

许多公司确实希望将自己定位为在某个领域率先做任何事情的公司。

They love the idea of category creating, creating these little marketing phrases that they use for the new category.

他们喜欢创建类别的想法，创建这些用于新类别的小营销短语。

And that's fine if perhaps that works on the sales side, but on the PR side, I would never have put that in a pitch.

如果这在销售方面可行的话，那很好，但在公关方面，我永远不会把它放在推销中。

Lenny: There's just going to be a meta comment, but the two topics that are most controversial in this podcast that I have both sides of opinions on is the power of category creation and jobs to be done.

Lenny：只会有一个元评论，但在这个播客中最具争议性的两个话题我有双方的意见，那就是类别创建的力量和要做的工作。

Lenny: There's a lot of passion on both sides.

莱尼：双方都充满热情。

Emilie Gerber: I mean, sure, you can point to examples of the two companies that have done category creation well, but it's two out of what, thousands?

艾米莉·格伯：我的意思是，当然，你可以举出两家公司在品类创建方面做得很好的例子，但这只是其中的两家，几千家？

Lenny: I love it.

莱尼：我喜欢。

I'm going to keep poking this hornet's nest.

我还要继续捅这个马蜂窝。

I love it.

我喜欢它。

Okay.

好的。

But you're saying in your experience doesn't work when pitching reporters?

但你是说根据你的经验，向记者推销时不起作用？

Emilie Gerber: For PR.

艾米莉·格伯：为了公关。

Yeah, simply for PR.

是的，只是为了公关。

In other areas of the business I can't comment on, but for PR, it's just not a useful tactic.

在业务的其他领域我无法评论，但对于公关来说，这不是一个有用的策略。

Lenny: Okay, awesome.

莱尼：好的，太棒了。

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Lenny: So I asked you to bring some examples of pitches that are great, and also examples of pitches that could be better, and I know...

莱尼：所以我请你带来一些很棒的推介示例，以及可以做得更好的推介示例，我知道......

Yeah.

是的。

Okay, cool.

好吧，酷。

So thank you for doing the homework.

谢谢你做的功课。

Let's pull them up and then I'd love to just show people what you find has been really effective and works great about these examples and then what somebody could have done better, whatever you want to share about that example.

让我们把它们拉出来，然后我很乐意向人们展示您发现的这些示例中真正有效和有效的内容，然后有人可以做得更好，无论您想分享关于该示例的任何内容。

Emilie Gerber: Sure.

埃米莉·格伯：当然。

Sounds good.

听起来不错。

I guess since we're on the topic of category creating versus not category creating, I'll start with an example that's very relevant to that.

我想既然我们讨论的是类别创建与非类别创建的主题，我将从一个与此非常相关的示例开始。

So we worked with RAMP in their very early days, and one of their first product announcements that we did together was the launch of their bill pay offering.

因此，我们在 RAMP 的早期就与他们合作，我们合作发布的第一个产品就是推出他们的账单支付产品。

And so at the time, I think they were like a three billion dollar company, something along those lines.

所以当时，我认为他们就像一家价值 30 亿美元的公司，类似的东西。

So big, but not as big as they are today.

那么大，但没有今天那么大。

Product news rarely gets big feature coverage, especially for something along the lines of a bill pay offering for B2B companies.

产品新闻很少得到大的专题报道，特别是对于 B2B 公司的账单支付产品。

Emilie Gerber: And so essentially the way that we framed the story was how RAMP was now able to take on Bill.com, which at the time I'm not sure if it still is, was one of the best performing FinTech IPOs public company that really had still only captured two percent of this market overall.

Emilie Gerber：所以我们构建这个故事的方式本质上是 RAMP 现在如何能够与 Bill.com 抗衡，当时我不确定它是否仍然是表现最好的金融科技 IPO 上市公司之一，但实际上仍然只占据了整个市场的 2%。

And so by positioning it as allowing them to take on this massive incumbent that was getting a lot of press, we actually were able to get a CNBC story on the launch of this product.

因此，通过将其定位为允许他们与这个受到大量媒体关注的大型现有企业竞争，我们实际上能够获得 CNBC 关于该产品发布的报道。

Generally they won't even consider product stories, but they really liked the angle of this underdog doing something that could take on a piece of market share from them.

一般来说，他们甚至不会考虑产品故事，但他们真的很喜欢这个失败者做一些可以从他们那里夺取市场份额的事情的角度。

Emilie Gerber: And the next day there was actually another story about how Bill.com stock had gone down and they did make mention of RAMP's news in that story.

Emilie Gerber：第二天实际上还有另一个关于 Bill.com 股票如何下跌的报道，他们确实在那个报道中提到了 RAMP 的新闻。

So it ended up really just, it was a very powerful way of telling the narrative there.

所以它最终真的很公正，这是一种非常有力的讲述故事的方式。

Emilie Gerber: And another way, if we hadn't pitched it like that would've just been RAMP brings simple, seamless, streamlined ability to do vendor payments and new finance offering, first of its kind.

Emilie Gerber：换句话说，如果我们没有这样宣传，RAMP 就会带来简单、无缝、简化的供应商付款和新金融服务能力，这在同类产品中尚属首次。

All these things that might be how you would talk in your customer emails, but if I had pitched it that way, probably wouldn't have been a story.

所有这些事情可能都是你在客户电子邮件中谈论的方式，但如果我那样做，可能就不会是一个故事了。

So if we had pitched it as them creating a new category of this all in one software, which I mean, yeah, it could be argued, that's another way to tell the story.

因此，如果我们将其定位为他们在一个软件中创建一个新类别，我的意思是，是的，可以争论，这是讲述故事的另一种方式。

I don't think CNBC would've been interested.

我认为 CNBC 不会感兴趣。

Emilie Gerber: So, okay, another example, we work with a company called Column Tax, which is embedded tax filing software.

Emilie Gerber：好吧，再举一个例子，我们与一家名为 Column Tax 的公司合作，该公司是嵌入式报税软件。

So essentially they work with other FinTech's to allow people to file their taxes within the tools that they already use.

因此，本质上他们与其他金融科技公司合作，允许人们在他们已经使用的工具中报税。

And last year they partnered with a company called Propel that offers SNAP benefits.

去年，他们与一家名为 Propel 的公司合作，该公司提供 SNAP 福利。

So essentially for low income families to receive the government benefits to offer tax filing directly within the app that they've created.

因此，本质上，低收入家庭可以享受政府福利，直接在他们创建的应用程序中提供报税服务。

Emilie Gerber: And that was one thing that they were doing amidst many other customers, that they had lots of different threads we could pull on with them, but we decided to really just focus our press strategy on that one initiative because it allowed us to tell macro story about TurboTax had to pay all these fines for practices that many considered unsavory around calling themselves free but not really being free.

Emilie Gerber：这是他们在许多其他客户中所做的一件事，他们有很多不同的线索，我们可以与他们合作，但我们决定真正将我们的新闻策略集中在这一举措上，因为它让我们能够讲述有关 TurboTax 的宏观故事，他们必须为许多人认为自称自由但实际上并非真正自由的做法支付所有这些罚款。

The IRS is building a free filing system, but it's in its very early days.

美国国税局正在建立一个免费的申报系统，但仍处于早期阶段。

Emilie Gerber: So the fact that they were having this offering that was supporting a lot of low income families, and I believe 40% of the people that filed their taxes with Column hadn't filed taxes in the previous year, so hadn't gotten a return.

Emilie Gerber：事实上，他们提供的这项服务为许多低收入家庭提供了支持，我相信在 Column 报税的人中，有 40% 的人在上一年没有报税，所以没有得到回报。

It's like identifying the piece of the story that's most interesting and then doubling down on that.

这就像确定故事中最有趣的部分，然后加倍努力。

So we were able to get a great fast company piece instead of pitching this macro here are Column Tax's latest growth metrics, and they're announcing a partnership with Propel.

因此，我们能够快速获得公司的信息，而不是在这里推销这个宏，这是 Column Tax 的最新增长指标，并且他们宣布与 Propel 建立合作伙伴关系。

And so it's like...

所以这就像是...

Emilie Gerber: Growth metrics, and they're announcing a partnership with Propeller.

Emilie Gerber：增长指标，他们宣布与 Propeller 建立合作伙伴关系。

And so it's figuring out how to tie it to these things that people actually care about, and not just the company's messaging I think is our job.

因此，我们要弄清楚如何将其与人们真正关心的事情联系起来，而不仅仅是公司的信息，我认为这是我们的工作。

Lenny: Amazing, is there any other examples?

Lenny：太棒了，还有其他例子吗？

Otherwise, I'll share your pitch of someone coming on my podcast, and what worked about that.

否则，我将分享您对某人加入我的播客的推介，以及对此的有效方法。

Emilie Gerber: I do want to share one more, because it's my favorite.

Emilie Gerber：我确实想再分享一个，因为它是我的最爱。

I want to share my favorite funding story that I worked on.

我想分享我最喜欢的融资故事。

And so I'm actually going to pull it up, because this one is very graphic, in terms of how we went about showing the product.

所以我实际上要把它拉出来，因为就我们如何展示产品而言，这个非常形象化。

So we worked with a company called Gamma, which is essentially bringing a PowerPoint into something that's much more modern, and interactive, and usable.

因此，我们与一家名为 Gamma 的公司合作，该公司本质上是将 PowerPoint 引入更现代、更具交互性和可用性的东西。

So when we did their launch, they were a seed stage company, we tried to get really creative with how we could display or talk about the company.

因此，当我们推出他们时，他们是一家种子阶段公司，我们试图在如何展示或谈论公司方面发挥真正的创意。

And so instead of doing your standard company blog posts, we actually made a Gamma presentation, and we kind of included all these fun elements that made it really interesting to reporters.

因此，我们没有做标准的公司博客文章，而是实际上做了一个伽玛演示，并且我们包含了所有这些有趣的元素，这让记者们非常感兴趣。

So firstly, it's a visual platform.

首先，它是一个视觉平台。

So we created...

所以我们创建了...

Or actually I don't want to take credit for this.

或者实际上我不想因此而获得功劳。

The Gamma team created this great visual.

Gamma 团队创造了这个出色的视觉效果。

Emilie Gerber: And we kept it very to the point.

艾米莉·格伯：我们保持了重点。

Every year, half a billion people create presentations in Google Slides and PowerPoint.

每年，有 5 亿人在 Google 幻灯片和 PowerPoint 中创建演示文稿。

We're not using marketing language here, we're talking in a very direct way, we're including fund visuals.

我们在这里没有使用营销语言，我们以非常直接的方式进行交谈，我们包括基金视觉效果。

We talk about Gamma's mission, pretty short, this is not a long essay on why the company exists.

我们谈论 Gamma 的使命，很简短，这不是一篇关于公司存在原因的长文。

And then we include some customer love, so they're early stage, so we didn't really have necessarily growth metrics that we wanted to share.

然后我们包括一些客户的喜爱，所以他们还处于早期阶段，所以我们实际上没有想要分享的增长指标。

So we tried to make it a little bit more personal, and focus on actual users and what they're saying, while also showing the product capability here.

因此，我们试图使其更加个性化，并关注实际用户和他们所说的内容，同时也在这里展示产品功能。

And then instead of doing a long thing on each investor, we just bulleted who the investors are, which is very to the point, easy for a reporter to repurpose.

然后，我们没有对每个投资者做很长的事情，而是简单地列出了投资者是谁，这非常切中要点，很容易让记者重新利用。

Emilie Gerber: And then the fun part that I really loved, is we did a video from the lead investor talking about why she invested, instead of including an investor quote.

艾米莉·格伯：然后，我真正喜欢的有趣部分是，我们制作了一段由主要投资者谈论她投资原因的视频，而不是包括投资者的引言。

So it's a little bit different than what you expect.

所以它与你的预期有点不同。

And their videos are fun, because they have all these interactive elements.

他们的视频很有趣，因为它们有所有这些互动元素。

And yeah, team photo, make it a little more personal.

是的，团队照片，让它更个性化一点。

And that was about it.

就是这样。

But anyways, it was a very successful story, and I believe the title of the TechCrunch article that we got as a result was Gamma Brings PowerPoint into the 21st Century.

但无论如何，这是一个非常成功的故事，我相信我们因此得到的 TechCrunch 文章的标题是 Gamma Brings PowerPoint into the 21st Century。

Exactly, that's exactly what we're talking.

没错，这正是我们所说的。

Maybe they are creating a new category, we weren't talking about it then, we're talking about how it's better than the existing solutions.

也许他们正在创建一个新类别，我们当时不是在谈论它，而是在谈论它如何比现有解决方案更好。

And so yeah, I guess the piece of advice there, is feel free to get kind of fun and creative with it, and don't just follow the typical issuing press release format.

所以，是的，我想这里的建议是，随意地从中获得乐趣和创造力，而不要仅仅遵循典型的发布新闻稿格式。

Lenny: And is that something we could link to for people to check out?

莱尼：我们可以链接到这些内容供人们查看吗？

Is that just on their site?

这只是在他们的网站上吗？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, I actually had to for some reason do some digging to get it.

艾米莉·格伯：是的，实际上出于某种原因我不得不进行一些挖掘才能得到它。

But yeah, I have it now, so I can give it to you.

但是，是的，我现在有了它，所以我可以把它给你。

Lenny: Okay, great.

莱尼：好的，太好了。

And the way that you use that is when you sent emails or DMs to reporters, you included this link?

您使用的方式是，当您向记者发送电子邮件或私信时，是否包含此链接？

Emilie Gerber: After they had that they're potentially interested, because again, if I had shared it right off the bat, it would be their prerogative to just publish it essentially or share it publicly.

艾米莉·格伯：在他们知道之后，他们可能会感兴趣，因为同样，如果我立即分享它，他们就有权利直接发布或公开分享它。

And I guess one important note, is everything you say to a reporter in an email is on the record, and so that's why I make the point on not sharing the entire story right off the bat.

我想一个重要的注意事项是，你在电子邮件中对记者所说的一切都会被记录下来，所以这就是为什么我强调不要立即分享整个故事的原因。

Lenny: Got it.

莱尼：明白了。

So many companies won't have...

很多公司都不会...

They're not a deck product, so they can't do something like this.

他们不是甲板产品，所以他们不能做这样的事情。

But the takeaways for other folks here, is be just very human in the language, the investors are just bullet points, make it fun, add some visuals, don't just have blurbs, and paragraphs, and things like that.

但这里其他人的收获是，语言要非常人性化，投资者只是要点，让它变得有趣，添加一些视觉效果，而不仅仅是简介、段落之类的东西。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah.

埃米莉·格伯：是的。

I think reporters are used to getting the same thing all the time, and so this one obviously worked well for the format.

我认为记者们习惯于一直得到同样的东西，所以这个显然很适合这种格式。

But I think we try to always think of, what can we do that's slightly different for this one?

但我认为我们总是要努力思考，我们能做些什么与这次略有不同的事情？

Or how can we make this a little more fun?

或者我们怎样才能让这件事变得更有趣呢？

I guess the one exception, if the product is very technical, and you have a very technical audience, and you're probably going to work with a very technical reporter, it's totally fine to talk to your audience in those cases, and you don't need to necessarily dumb it down so everyone can understand.

我想有一个例外，如果产品技术性很强，并且您有一群技术性很强的受众，并且您可能会与一位技术性很强的记者一起工作，那么在这种情况下与您的受众交谈是完全可以的，并且您不必一定将其简化以便每个人都能理解。

But that doesn't mean...

但这并不意味着...

I mean, you can do that while still using clear and concise language.

我的意思是，您可以在仍然使用清晰简洁的语言的情况下做到这一点。

Lenny: Okay, so let me share the element of the pitch that you sent me, that convinced me to bring this guest on.

莱尼：好的，让我分享一下你发给我的宣传材料，这些元素说服了我邀请这位嘉宾。

So this is going to be the chief product officer at NewBank.

因此，这将是 NewBank 的首席产品官。

I barely know anything about NewBank.

我对NewBank几乎一无所知。

And so in your email to me, you basically had just two bullet points, and the way you put is, "Two fun facts about NewBank, growth has been 80 to 90% organic because of the way they try to make customers fanatical about the product." And to me that's like, "Wow, that's very rare, is 80, 90% of your growth being organic." So to me is like, "That's an interesting story." And then the other tidbit is, "NewBank is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, SoFi, and Lemonade combined.

所以在你给我的电子邮件中，你基本上只有两个要点，你的说法是，“关于 NewBank 的两个有趣的事实，增长是 80% 到 90% 的有机增长，因为他们试图让客户对产品产生狂热。”对我来说，这就像，“哇，这非常罕见，80%、90% 的增长都是有机的。”所以对我来说，“这是一个有趣的故事。”然后另一个花絮是，“NewBank 比 Coinbase、Robinhood、Affirm、SoFi 和 Lemonade 的总和还要大。

Seriously, so much bigger than people in the US realize." Which I 100% did not realize.

说真的，比美国人想象的要大得多。”我100%没有意识到这一点。

So to me both were just like, "Okay, this is an interesting story to tell, I think people would be very curious to hear how a company like this operates." So now I'm going to start getting all these emails from people, all these couple bullet points.

所以对我来说，他们都说，“好吧，这是一个有趣的故事，我想人们会很好奇像这样的公司是如何运作的。”所以现在我要开始收到人们发来的所有电子邮件，所有这些要点。

Emilie Gerber: They're going to combine a bunch of companies, and see which they're bigger than.

艾米莉·格伯：他们将合并一些公司，看看他们比哪家更大。

Lenny: Yeah, or use AI to help them figure this out.

莱尼：是的，或者使用人工智能来帮助他们解决这个问题。

But I think what you identified here is just what I get excited about.

但我认为你在这里发现的正是我感到兴奋的地方。

Is there any advice there of just what you did there that other people can learn from?

您在那里所做的事情有什么建议可供其他人学习吗？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah.

埃米莉·格伯：是的。

I mean, I think with pitching you, speaking to the audience, it's not just about having...

我的意思是，我认为向观众推销你、向观众讲话，不仅仅是...

You don't want the most well-known CEOs all the time, you're not looking just for the biggest companies and the most well-known people.

你并不总是想要最知名的首席执行官，你不只是在寻找最大的公司和最知名的人。

You're looking for the things that they can talk about, and how the things that they can talk about are relevant to your audience.

您正在寻找他们可以谈论的事情，以及他们可以谈论的事情如何与您的受众相关。

And with the first bullet, it was indexing on that.

第一个项目符号就是对此进行索引。

The second bullet was more so like, "Hey, you might not know about this company." And it's a little bit of a unique one, I wouldn't necessarily always include that.

第二个子弹更像是，“嘿，你可能不知道这家公司。”它有点独特，我不一定总是包含它。

But to me the first bullet was really what mattered, because it wasn't just about the fact that they were a huge company, it's that they grew in a unique way, and I knew that was the kind of thing that you'd be interested in.

但对我来说，第一点确实很重要，因为这不仅仅是因为他们是一家大公司，而是因为他们以独特的方式成长，我知道这就是你会感兴趣的事情。

Lenny: And how did you figure that out?

莱尼：你是怎么想出来的？

Is it from emails we were exchanging ahead of that?

是我们之前交换的电子邮件吗？

Is it listening to some podcasts?

是在听一些播客吗？

How did you get to those conclusions?

您是如何得出这些结论的？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, listening certainly helps.

Emilie Gerber：是的，倾听确实有帮助。

But I do think just figuring out...

但我确实认为只要弄清楚...

If you even just scrolled the names of all the episodes that you've done, it would be pretty easy to spot a trend there.

如果你只是滚动你已经完成的所有剧集的名称，就很容易发现那里的趋势。

And so you're not talking about product launches, you are not talking about entrepreneurial journeys, you're talking about tactical lessons.

所以你不是在谈论产品发布，你不是在谈论创业之旅，你是在谈论战术课程。

And so pitching people based on those sort of things, I don't even think you necessarily need to listen to a whole bunch of episodes most of the time, maybe occasionally you want to gut check something before you reach out.

因此，根据这类事情向人们推销，我什至认为你不一定需要在大多数时间听一大堆剧集，也许偶尔你想在接触之前先进行一些检查。

But yeah, you can tell a lot just by doing a little bit of research.

但是，是的，只需做一点研究就可以了解很多信息。

Emilie Gerber: And then we did have a little back and forth, because I will take responsibility, I did try pitching you on a CEO at one point, which I know you don't have on as guests.

埃米莉·格伯：然后我们确实有一些来回，因为我会承担责任，我曾一度尝试向你推荐一位首席执行官，但我知道你作为嘉宾是没有的。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, actually, there's obviously some exceptions.

Emilie Gerber：是的，实际上，显然有一些例外。

But I had known the subject matter you were looking for, but I did not spot the trend that you've never had CEOs on.

但我知道你正在寻找的主题，但我没有发现你从未有过首席执行官的趋势。

So I think my pitch was actually okay, but the spokesperson was not the kind of person that you would want on.

所以我认为我的宣传实际上还不错，但发言人不是你想要的那种人。

So maybe you won't get it right 100% of the time, but you can tell a lot just by doing some searches.

因此，也许您不会 100% 正确，但只需进行一些搜索就可以了解很多信息。

Lenny: And oftentimes I just reply, "Here's my policy." And then, "Okay, good to know." Kind of along these lines, something I wanted to ask earlier, you mentioned a few publications to go after, and then how to pitch people.

莱尼：我常常只是回答：“这是我的政策。”然后，“好吧，很高兴知道。”类似地，我之前想问的是，你提到了一些要关注的出版物，以及如何向人们推销。

Obviously the way that you're describing takes a bunch of time.

显然，您所描述的方式需要花费大量时间。

How many people are you often emailing, DMing per attempt to get a story?

每次尝试获取故事时，您经常给多少人发电子邮件、私信？

Because it sounds like it's not a ton, and so you have time to do these sorts of custom pitches.

因为听起来并不多，所以你有时间进行这些类型的自定义推介。

Or is it a lot higher than it sounds?

或者它比听起来高很多？

Emilie Gerber: I would say for hard news, funding, the startup launch, those sort of things, less, and I try to really stagger it because we're offering exclusives, and I highly recommend offering exclusives.

艾米莉·格伯：我想说的是，对于硬新闻、资金、初创公司的推出，诸如此类的事情，要少一些，我会尽量错开，因为我们提供独家报道，我强烈建议提供独家报道。

So the worst thing that can happen is two reporters reply, and are both interested, and you have to go back to one and say, "Nevermind." And sometimes that's okay if they left you, if it's been a week or something, they hadn't gotten back, and they'll understand.

因此，可能发生的最糟糕的事情是两名记者回复，并且都很感兴趣，而你必须回到其中一名并说：“没关系。”有时，如果他们离开了你，也没关系，如果已经一周或者什么时间了，他们还没有回来，他们会理解的。

So it's fine to move on without getting an answer.

因此，在没有得到答案的情况下继续前进也没关系。

So I would say, yeah, with the funding story, it could be anywhere from one to six reporters on average, sometimes more.

所以我想说，是的，就融资故事而言，平均可能有一到六名记者，有时甚至更多。

With stuff like general just outreach, relationship building, trying to get on podcasts, it kind of is a numbers game, and you really have to balance quality and quantity.

对于一般的外展、建立关系、尝试上播客之类的事情，这有点像一场数字游戏，你真的必须平衡质量和数量。

Emilie Gerber: And that's why I love starting with the first note and not saying much, and just saying, "Hey, you open to guest ideas?" Because it allows you to do more.

Emilie Gerber：这就是为什么我喜欢从第一个音符开始，不说太多，只是说，“嘿，你愿意接受客人的想法吗？”因为它可以让你做更多事情。

I'd rather do that than send a bad pitch, and not have it be targeted to the right sort of audience.

我宁愿这样做，也不愿发送一个糟糕的推介，并且没有将其定位到正确的受众群体。

And so that's kind of a way to play the numbers game while still being respectful.

所以这是一种玩数字游戏的方式，同时仍然保持尊重。

But yeah, I mean, with some clients maybe they get one opportunity for every 20 or 30 things that we send.

但是，是的，我的意思是，对于一些客户来说，我们每发送 20 或 30 件东西，他们可能就会获得一次机会。

And so yeah, we try not to do...

所以是的，我们尽量不做......

We don't do blasting media, it's not about sending the same pitch to a single list of people.

我们不做爆炸性媒体，这不是向一个名单上的人发送相同的内容。

It's figuring out, which ones do I want to really double down on because they're the perfect target?

它正在弄清楚，哪些是我真正想要加倍努力的，因为它们是完美的目标？

And you'll keep trying, you'll be really custom, which deserve maybe a slightly higher level note, which deserve a DM, and just figuring out your strategy from that.

你会继续尝试，你会真正定制，这可能值得稍微更高级别的注释，值得DM，并从中找出你的策略。

Lenny: Awesome, okay.

莱尼：太棒了，好吧。

Do you have examples of pitches, announcements that were not as effective as they could have been, and advice for how they could have been better?

您是否有未达到应有效果的推介、公告的示例，以及如何做得更好的建议？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, I have some excerpts that I pulled from press releases where I think there's room for improvement.

艾米莉·格伯：是的，我从新闻稿中摘录了一些我认为还有改进空间的内容。

So Lenny, I want to read one to you, and then I want to see if you can tell me what this company does.

莱尼，我想读一篇给你听，然后我想看看你能否告诉我这家公司是做什么的。

Okay, "Today X announced their workflow automation product, which combines AI assistance, human in the loop collaboration, and a robust multiplayer experience to help teams save time."

好的，“今天 X 宣布了他们的工作流程自动化产品，该产品结合了人工智能辅助、人机循环协作和强大的多人游戏体验，可帮助团队节省时间。”

Lenny: Absolutely no idea what's going on.

莱尼：完全不知道发生了什么。

Emilie Gerber: You kind of gained something from workflow automation, and then after that it's like, "Wait, what?"

Emilie Gerber：您从工作流程自动化中获得了一些东西，然后就像是，“等等，什么？”

Emilie Gerber: Okay, now let me read to an excerpt from the TechCrunch article, and this is how TechCrunch positioned it, "A new automation startup is setting out to eat Zapier's lunch.

Emilie Gerber：好的，现在让我读一下 TechCrunch 文章的摘录，这就是 TechCrunch 的定位：“一家新的自动化初创公司正准备吃 Zapier 的午餐。

It helps people tackle mundane and repetitive tasks, and goes beyond the triggers and actions popularized by similar platforms like Zapier." So to me, yeah, it's a better version of Zapier, where they aren't just doing triggers and actions, and there's a little more substance and depth to it.

它可以帮助人们处理平凡和重复性的任务，并且超越 Zapier 等类似平台所流行的触发器和操作。”所以对我来说，是的，这是 Zapier 的一个更好版本，他们不只是做触发器和动作，还有更多的实质内容和深度。

If you know what Zapier is, you can kind of start to figure out what they do based on that.

如果您知道 Zapier 是什么，您就可以开始根据这些了解他们的用途。

Lenny: Yeah, it comes back to your point about referencing incumbent to help you understand what the heck you're talking about

莱尼：是的，这又回到了你提到现任者的观点，以帮助你理解你到底在说什么

Emilie Gerber: And you wouldn't necessarily need to do that in your press release, but I think they could have been a lot clearer, and not use...

艾米莉·格伯：你不一定需要在新闻稿中这样做，但我认为他们可以更清楚，而不是使用......

Because terms like robust multiplayer experience, that makes it sound like a game.

因为诸如强大的多人游戏体验之类的术语，这使得它听起来像一款游戏。

Are we talking about just collaborative multiple users?

我们谈论的只是多个用户的协作吗？

Human in the loop collaboration, isn't all collaboration between humans, and we're all in the loop?

人在循环协作，难道不是所有人类之间的协作，我们都在循环中吗？

AI assistance, that just means they use AI.

人工智能辅助，这只是意味着他们使用人工智能。

So yeah, sometimes I push my clients to like, "Okay, let's talk through what each of these phrases actually means.

所以，是的，有时我会让我的客户喜欢，“好吧，让我们谈谈这些短语的实际含义。

And if you can't articulate it, then let's change it to the way that you just articulated it, and it might be more successful." So yeah, that's a good way to do it.

如果你不能清楚地表达出来，那么我们就改成你刚才表达的方式，也许会更成功。”是的，这是一个好方法。

And just read it out loud, read it out loud and see if someone understands it.

然后大声读出来，大声读出来，看看是否有人理解。

Lenny: Someone hearing this is like, "How could possibly anybody think that was great?

莱尼：有人听到这个会说，“怎么可能会有人认为这很棒呢？

How did these come about, these really bad descriptions?" I know it's hard to come up with something really short and pithy, but where do these come from?

这些非常糟糕的描述是怎么产生的？”我知道很难想出一些真正简短而精辟的东西，但这些从哪里来呢？

Emilie Gerber: It's just a culture within marketing and comms, of this is how we're supposed to write.

Emilie Gerber：这只是营销和传播中的一种文化，这就是我们应该如何写作。

And I just think that's a majority of how people do it, and they think it sounds smart, or they think it sounds more professional.

我只是认为这就是大多数人的做法，他们认为这听起来很聪明，或者他们认为这听起来更专业。

I just think it's just how people are trained.

我只是认为这就是人们的训练方式。

And so even when we bring on someone new, part of my job is stripping away at a lot of that, and getting people...

因此，即使我们聘请了新人，我工作的一部分就是剥离掉很多新人，并让人们……

Everyone's capable of talking like a human being, we do it every day.

每个人都有能力像人一样说话，我们每天都这样做。

But it's stripping away that thing that goes off in your head that you're supposed to be writing in a very marketingy way.

但它剥夺了你脑海中出现的那些你应该以一种非常营销的方式写作的东西。

Because I would say at least 50% of releases are like that, it's not a small problem.

因为我想说至少 50% 的版本都是这样，这不是一个小问题。

Lenny: Right.

莱尼：对。

I love the advice you shared of just trying to say it out loud, hearing yourself, what does it sound like?

我喜欢你分享的建议，就是试着大声说出来，听听自己的声音，听起来是什么样的？

Do you have any other tips for trying to make it something people get and connect to?

您还有其他建议来尝试让它成为人们获取和联系的东西吗？

I know that, again, it takes a lot of time to really do well and it's very context specific, but is there any other tricks that you find help you communicate what you're actually offering?

我再次知道，要真正做好需要花费很多时间，而且它非常具体，但是您是否发现任何其他技巧可以帮助您传达您实际提供的内容？

Emilie Gerber: It's talking through the basic questions, what does this product do?

Emilie Gerber：这是在讨论基本问题，这个产品是做什么的？

Who is it for?

它是给谁用的？

Who are your customers?

谁是你的客户？

If you can answer each of those in one sentence...

如果你能用一句话回答每一个问题......

What product launch are we talking about here?

我们在这里谈论什么产品发布？

If you can just answer each of those verbally, chances are you're not going to be far away from what you're looking for.

如果您能够口头回答其中每一个问题，那么您很可能就离您要寻找的东西不远了。

Because when I talk to marketers, and founders, and teams, generally in the conversations I have no trouble understanding what they're talking about.

因为当我与营销人员、创始人和团队交谈时，通常在对话中我可以毫无困难地理解他们在说什么。

They can articulate it just fine, it's only in the writing that it gets that way.

他们可以很好地表达它，只有在写作中才会这样。

So actually I think it's kind of easier to solve than many might realize.

所以实际上我认为这个问题比许多人想象的更容易解决。

And then also I think there is some skill involved in removing words, not over explaining, you can make things more concise.

然后我也认为去掉文字是有技巧的，不要过度解释，可以让事情变得更简洁。

But at the bare minimum, just strip out all the jargon, that's the first step.

但至少，去掉所有行话，这是第一步。

Lenny: I love it.

莱尼：我喜欢。

So one way to think about it is, just think about, what does it do?

所以思考它的一种方法是，想想它有什么作用？

Who is it for?

它是给谁用的？

Who are the customers?

客户是谁？

Is there something else along those lines that you shared there as a bullet point?

您是否还分享了其他内容作为要点？

Emilie Gerber: Well, I mean, if you're talking about what makes this business interesting?

艾米莉·格伯：嗯，我的意思是，如果你正在谈论是什么让这个行业变得有趣？

Why should people care?

人们为什么要关心？

And not over indexing on that.

并且不要过度索引。

I think that's just one part of the overall story, is why people should care about this business.

我认为这只是整个故事的一部分，也是人们应该关心这项业务的原因。

And then what's new?

那么有什么新的吗？

Is it growth metrics?

是增长指标吗？

Is it the customer piece?

是客户的作品吗？

Is it product?

是产品吗？

What makes this timely and relevant right now?

是什么让这一切变得及时且有意义？

Lenny: Okay, awesome.

莱尼：好的，太棒了。

There's actually this awesome Twitter thread from a couple of days ago, where the CEO of Product Hunt did this thread where he asked people, "Share your tagline, and I will give you a much better version of the tagline." And he's really good at this.

事实上，几天前有一个很棒的 Twitter 帖子，Product Hunt 的首席执行官在帖子中询问人们，“分享你的口号，我会给你一个更好版本的口号。”他真的很擅长这一点。

So I'm going to link to it in the show notes, where he can give you an example of what it looks like from bad to good.

所以我将在演出笔记中链接到它，他可以在那里给你一个从坏到好的例子。

Emilie Gerber: I love that.

艾米莉·格伯：我喜欢这个。

That's exactly the kind of thing I would love to do too, because it's so fun and so easy.

这正是我也想做的事情，因为它是如此有趣且如此简单。

Lenny: It's easy if you're good at it, most people are not great at it.

莱尼：如果你擅长的话，这很容易，大多数人都不擅长。

You mentioned press release in this example, you shared thoughts on value of press release, traditional press release versus not.

您在这个例子中提到了新闻稿，您分享了对新闻稿的价值、传统新闻稿与非新闻稿的看法。

Emilie Gerber: Press releases came about because reporters would be checking news wires for ideas of what stories they want to write.

埃米莉·格伯：新闻稿的出现是因为记者会查看新闻专线以了解他们想要写什么故事。

No reporters do that anymore, or a very small percentage, I don't know any reporters that do that anymore.

没有记者再这样做了，或者说比例很小，我不知道有哪个记者再这样做了。

So now it's this thing where you go to one of the PR distribution services, you pay them anywhere between 300 to $2,000, that's literally what it costs, and they put it on the wire.

所以现在你去找一家公关发行服务公司，你向他们支付 300 到 2,000 美元之间的费用，这就是它的实际成本，然后他们将其通过电报发送。

And for the more expensive services, it does get syndicated to this press release section of some business websites.

对于更昂贵的服务，它确实被联合到一些商业网站的新闻稿部分。

No one, in my opinion, goes there for their news.

在我看来，没有人会去那里寻找新闻。

I've personally never read an article, like a Yahoo Finance article, that was a press release syndication.

我个人从未读过一篇文章，比如雅虎财经的文章，是一篇新闻稿联合组织。

So in that sense, they are not helpful for getting eyeballs.

所以从这个意义上说，它们对于吸引眼球没有帮助。

They also require...

他们还要求...

Going back to that more marketing form of writing, they require that you write like that.

回到那种更具营销性的写作形式，他们要求你这样写。

Emilie Gerber: The standard press release format, it's so formulaic, and I think it actually encourages that more marketing speak.

Emilie Gerber：标准的新闻稿格式非常公式化，我认为它实际上鼓励更多的营销言论。

The benefit is that you're getting all the news details in one place, so it's relevant for a reporter.

好处是您可以在一个地方获取所有新闻详细信息，因此它与记者相关。

However, you can do the exact same thing in a blog post.

但是，您可以在博客文章中执行完全相同的操作。

And the blog post can be this first person piece of content that's written by either the founder, or the product lead, or whatever executive, that has a lot more flexibility in the style.

博客文章可以是由创始人、产品负责人或任何高管撰写的第一人称内容，其风格具有更大的灵活性。

You can kind of write it however you want, it can still include all the same news elements.

您可以随心所欲地编写它，它仍然可以包含所有相同的新闻元素。

And it's much more shareable on social, you're not going to share a link to a press release on your Twitter or on your LinkedIn, but a blog, for sure.

而且它在社交媒体上的共享性要高得多，您不会在 Twitter 或 LinkedIn 上共享新闻稿的链接，而是在博客上共享，这是肯定的。

You can add your own graphics, it's great.

您可以添加自己的图形，这很棒。

Emilie Gerber: And you're also encouraging people to go to something that lives on your website versus this black hole of a newsletter.

Emilie Gerber：您还鼓励人们访问您网站上的内容，而不是新闻通讯的黑洞。

I should be fair, so I think that the reason that people say that they still do them, is that it helps with SEO.

我应该公平地说，所以我认为人们说他们仍然这样做的原因是它有助于搜索引擎优化。

However, I've read a few articles that have said that Google no longer does prioritize press releases in SEO, so I don't know how much that holds up.

然而，我读过一些文章，说谷歌不再优先考虑搜索引擎优化中的新闻稿，所以我不知道这有多少依据。

And that it signals to the market that the company is more serious, so that's a perception thing.

它向市场发出信号，表明该公司更加认真，所以这是一个感知问题。

I personally think that blogs actually signal a more modern, kind of cool company than a press release.

我个人认为博客实际上比新闻稿更现代、更酷。

But at a certain stage in your growth, public companies, they do press releases for earnings, makes 100% sense.

但在成长的某个阶段，上市公司发布盈利新闻稿是 100% 有意义的。

There are certain rules around when companies do need to issue press releases, so there's still a use case for them, I just think your average early to mid-stage startup doesn't need them.

当公司确实需要发布新闻稿时，有一定的规则，所以它们仍然有一个用例，我只是认为一般的早期到中期初创公司不需要它们。

Lenny: This mention of blogs is where I wanted to go next actually, so it's a good segue.

Lenny：提到博客实际上是我接下来想要讨论的地方，所以这是一个很好的延续。

But before we do that, is there any other examples that you wanted to share of less than ideal ways of pitching a product?

但在此之前，您是否想分享任何其他不太理想的产品推销方式的示例？

Emilie Gerber: One sentence I found in a press release that a lot of companies want to include that I always try to remove is...

Emilie Gerber：我在一份新闻稿中发现很多公司都想加入但我总是试图删除的一句话是......

Well here, I'll give you the sentence, "Since exiting stealth in May, we've witnessed a 700% increase in organizations using our product." You're saying that since you were in stealth to now you saw a 700% increase, so you could have had one customer, now you have seven.

在这里，我会给你一句话：“自从 5 月份退出隐秘状态以来，我们发现使用我们产品的组织数量增加了 700%。”你是说，自从你隐身到现在，你看到了 700% 的增长，所以你本来可以有一个客户，现在你有七个。

And it's every company wants to do these percentage growth stats when they just launched, and I've never seen reporters include that in their stories.

每个公司都希望在刚推出时进行这些百分比增长统计，但我从未见过记者在他们的报道中包含这一点。

Emilie Gerber: And so there are ways to give signals of how fast you're growing without being that kind of disingenuous.

艾米莉·格伯：所以有一些方法可以发出你成长速度的信号，但又不会显得不诚实。

One way that you could put something similar is, "Our revenue hit six figures at the end of last year, and has been growing about 30% each quarter, with 40% of adoption coming from the enterprise sector." So you're giving color to the growth, and you can kind of play with that, it doesn't need to be exactly something like that.

类似的表述方式之一是，“我们的收入在去年年底达到了六位数，并且每个季度增长约 30%，其中 40% 的采用来自企业部门。”所以你给生长赋予了色彩，你可以利用它，它不需要完全是那样的。

But if you can make it a little more specific, I'm not against doing percentages, but I think there's a way to balance that with something that seems a little more realistic.

但如果你能让它更具体一点，我并不反对做百分比，但我认为有一种方法可以用看起来更现实的东西来平衡它。

Lenny: Or, "We went from zero to six figures in ARR in X months."

Lenny：或者，“我们在 X 个月内将 ARR 从零提高到了六位数。”

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, no, totally.

艾米莉·格伯：是的，不，完全如此。

And it doesn't need to be huge, especially if you're doing your first story, they're not expecting that you're necessarily going to have massive revenue.

而且它不需要很大，特别是如果你正在做你的第一个故事，他们并不期望你一定会获得大量收入。

And so I think founders might sometimes be concerned that it's not going to seem big enough or significant enough, whereas from working with a lot of companies, it's kind of the case across the board.

因此，我认为创始人有时可能会担心它看起来不够大或不够重要，而从与很多公司的合作来看，情况确实如此。

Lenny: You mentioned a bunch of amazing companies, you've worked with Ramp, Perplexity, a few others.

Lenny：你提到了很多很棒的公司，你曾与 Ramp、Perplexity 等公司合作过。

And people may feel like, of course you're getting pressed, those are amazing.

人们可能会觉得，当然你受到了压力，这太棒了。

Ramp grew to a 100 million AR in two years, Perplexity is this killer AI product, everyone's talking about AI.

Ramp 在两年内增长到 1 亿 AR，Perplexity 是这个杀手级 AI 产品，每个人都在谈论 AI。

Most products are not that, they don't have as interesting of a story to tell.

大多数产品并非如此，它们没有那么有趣的故事可讲。

Is there either an example you could share of a company that didn't have an amazing story to tell, that you created an interesting story out of?

您是否可以分享一个没有令人惊叹的故事可讲的公司的例子，而您却创造了一个有趣的故事？

Or just any advice for, how do you help find something that is a nugget that gets people excited?

或者只是任何建议，您如何帮助找到让人们兴奋的金块？

Emilie Gerber: So some of the examples I gave, so Clockwise and Column Tax aren't as big as some of the other brands I mentioned.

Emilie Gerber：我举的一些例子表明，Clockwise 和 Column Tax 并不像我提到的其他一些品牌那么大。

So that's certainly actually the bulk of our business, I would say 80% of the companies we work with are at a stage where they haven't reached that kind of mass awareness yet.

所以这实际上确实是我们业务的大部分，我想说，与我们合作的公司中有 80% 还处于尚未达到这种大众意识的阶段。

Emilie Gerber: Another really great company that we work with is Entropy.

Emilie Gerber：与我们合作的另一家非常出色的公司是 Entropy。

And so essentially they work with transaction data, they're an API.

因此本质上它们是处理交易数据的，它们是一个 API。

It's a very technical tool, it's not something that necessarily every reporter is going to instantly understand.

这是一个非常技术性的工具，不一定每个记者都能立即理解。

But for them, we've actually really leaned into the founder story.

但对于他们来说，我们实际上真正了解了创始人的故事。

She's this incredible woman who moved to the US, and actually struggled with getting her first apartment here because of the way that our credit scoring system is set up.

她是一位不可思议的女性，搬到了美国，但由于我们的信用评分系统的建立方式，她实际上很难在这里找到她的第一套公寓。

And one of the use cases for what she's building actually directly relates to how our credit system could change in the future, and so we've been really leaning into that angle.

她正在构建的用例之一实际上与我们的信用体系未来如何变化直接相关，因此我们一直在真正倾向于这个角度。

And her personal story is really powerful.

她的个人故事真的很强大。

And so maybe sometimes the product isn't going to be something that you can easily pitch, but you can kind of find those other personal angles in or pull on certain threads.

因此，有时产品可能不会是您可以轻松推销的产品，但您可以找到其他个人角度或拉动某些线索。

Lenny: And there it connects back to find the publication that cares about these sorts of personal stories, because TechCrunch probably won't.

Lenny：然后它会返回来找到关心此类个人故事的出版物，因为 TechCrunch 可能不会。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah.

埃米莉·格伯：是的。

But she spoke at Money20/20, so it's useful for speaking abstracts too.

但她在 Money20/20 上发表了演讲，因此它对于演讲摘要也很有用。

Actually it was on a panel with Column Tax, we got them on together at Money20/20.

实际上它是在 Column Tax 的一个面板上，我们在 Money20/20 上将它们放在一起。

Emilie Gerber: No, and we love doing that, it's so fun when you do have multiple companies that you can connect.

Emilie Gerber：不，我们喜欢这样做，当你确实有多家可以联系的公司时，这非常有趣。

Actually, that's kind of a good macro point as well.

事实上，这也是一个很好的宏观观点。

It doesn't always need to just be about you, if you have an idea for a conference session, reaching out to colleagues that you've worked with at other companies, peers, people that are building other things that maybe don't compete better in a similar space, and packaging that up as like, "Hey, this could be a really strong panel." It's actually way more successful than just pitching yourself.

它并不总是需要只与你有关，如果你有一个关于会议的想法，可以联系你在其他公司共事过的同事、同行、正在构建其他东西的人，这些东西可能在类似的空间中没有更好的竞争，并将其包装为“嘿，这可能是一个非常强大的小组”。实际上，这比仅仅推销自己要成功得多。

Lenny: Awesome, okay.

莱尼：太棒了，好吧。

So you've mentioned a couple of times the rise of newsletters and podcasts.

您多次提到时事通讯和播客的兴起。

So there's kind of two buckets of questions here.

所以这里有两类问题。

One is going after these kind of non-traditional media platforms, and then the other is building your own following, and building a following on Twitter, for example.

一是追求这些非传统媒体平台，二是建立自己的追随者，例如在 Twitter 上建立追随者。

I know you worked closely with the CEO of Vox who's really good at this, and basically doesn't need press.

我知道你与 Vox 的首席执行官密切合作，他非常擅长这件事，而且基本上不需要媒体报道。

Elon is amazing at this, maybe that's why he bought Twitter, he has this huge platform to talk about all the stuff.

埃隆在这方面很出色，也许这就是他买推特的原因，他有这个巨大的平台来谈论所有的事情。

So maybe in the first bucket, talking about when you're trying to decide, should I go after traditional media, Vox, and VentureBeat, and Axios, and all these guys?

所以也许在第一个方面，当你试图决定时，我应该选择传统媒体、Vox、VentureBeat、Axios 以及所有这些人吗？

Versus I'm going to go for newsletters.

相反，我要去寻找时事通讯。

As an example, Ramp got a lot of benefit from Not Boring, that newsletter with Packy, who wrote about them constantly and loved it.

举个例子，Ramp 从 Not Boring 中受益匪浅，这是 Packy 的时事通讯，Packy 经常写关于它们的文章，并且很喜欢它。

And they're sponsored posts, and organic posts.

它们是赞助帖子和有机帖子。

So I guess the question there is just, how do you think about going after podcasts, newsletters, Twitter, LinkedIn, influencery platformy people versus traditional press?

所以我想问题在于，与传统媒体相比，你如何看待追逐播客、时事通讯、Twitter、LinkedIn、有影响力的平台人物？

Emilie Gerber: I think of newsletters and podcasts actually in the camp of, if we're pitching traditional press, we're 100% pitching those.

Emilie Gerber：我认为时事通讯和播客实际上属于这样的阵营，如果我们推销传统媒体，我们 100% 都会推销它们。

Social is its own ball game, but I would not leave out newsletters and podcasts from any core PR strategy.

社交是它自己的球赛，但我不会在任何核心公关策略中遗漏时事通讯和播客。

To me, it's now just a part of any PR program that we're going to run, because it's just part of media now.

对我来说，它现在只是我们将要运行的任何公关计划的一部分，因为它现在只是媒体的一部分。

And to me, it's just a very important part of media.

对我来说，这是媒体非常重要的一部分。

In terms of social, I think doing social well is very hard.

在社交方面，我认为做好社交是非常困难的。

So you gave Aaron from Vox as an example, that was all 100% him.

所以你以 Vox 的 Aaron 为例，那都是 100% 的他。

I think I helped with one tweet once about a Microsoft partnership that we did, and I was so excited.

我想我曾在一条关于我们与微软的合作伙伴关系的推文中提供过帮助，我非常兴奋。

Emilie Gerber: Actually really good.

艾米莉·格伯：实际上非常好。

A publication ended up writing a story on the tweet about Microsoft and Vox partnership because of it.

因此，一家出版物最终在推文上写了一篇关于微软和 Vox 合作关系的报道。

Yeah, so that was fun.

是的，这很有趣。

But generally it's not always something that you can just turn on by hiring an agency.

但一般来说，这并不总是可以通过聘请代理机构来实现。

And I've seen many companies try doing that, and not necessarily see as much success as they'd hoped for.

我见过许多公司尝试这样做，但不一定能取得他们希望的成功。

So if a founder is naturally good at that stuff, lean into it as much as humanly possible, go for it.

因此，如果创始人天生擅长这些东西，那就尽可能地投入其中，然后就去做吧。

If they're not, and you're trying to outsource it, it can be done to some success.

如果不是，而您正尝试将其外包，则可以取得一些成功。

But I don't necessarily think it's as easy as just posting three times a week on relevant topics, there has to be more going on there.

但我不一定认为这就像每周就相关主题发布三次那么简单，那里必须有更多的事情发生。

I think that if the spokesperson or the executive that you're trying to build the presence of is willing to...

我认为，如果你试图建立影响力的发言人或高管愿意……

Going back to what I said earlier, kind of push the limit.

回到我之前所说的，有点突破极限。

Emilie Gerber: ...

埃米莉·格伯：...

Presence of is willing to, going back to what I said earlier, push the limit on opinions that they have, be bold, be controversial, then it could be worth potentially investing in.

回到我之前所说的，愿意突破他们的观点的限制，大胆，有争议，那么它可能值得潜在投资。

And I have seen it play out where reporters have seen those posts and used and quoted things in their articles as a result, so it can tie to your traditional media strategy a little bit, they're not necessarily fully siloed, but I would say if you're considering investing in social to just do corporate channels and not think about executives, you're really leaving a lot on the table.

我看到记者看到了这些帖子，并因此在他们的文章中使用和引用了一些东西，所以它可以与你的传统媒体策略有一点联系，它们不一定完全孤立，但我想说，如果你考虑投资社交媒体，只做企业渠道而不考虑高管，你真的留下了很多东西。

Corporate channels, it's very hard to build a following.

企业渠道，建立追随者非常困难。

Emilie Gerber: To get someone to follow a brand and care about a brand, you have to be bringing something new to the table, because they don't want to read your latest blog post, they don't want to read a relevant article that your social person just decided to put out there.

Emilie Gerber：为了让某人关注一个品牌并关心一个品牌，你必须带来一些新的东西，因为他们不想阅读你最新的博客文章，他们不想阅读你的社交人士刚刚决定在那里发表的相关文章。

When you have an executive, you're following a personality, you're following a person, ideally there's more flexibility with tone, all of that sort of stuff.

当你有一位高管时，你正在追随一种个性，你正在追随一个人，理想情况下，语气有更大的灵活性，所有诸如此类的东西。

And so I think it's important to think about it from the people perspective and not just the brand perspective.

因此，我认为从人们的角度而不仅仅是品牌的角度来思考这个问题很重要。

Lenny: So just to make it clear, the CEO or some execs should be the people tweeting and LinkedIn, and not the company as a brand?

莱尼：所以澄清一下，首席执行官或一些高管应该是发推文和 LinkedIn 的人，而不是作为品牌的公司？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah.

埃米莉·格伯：是的。

And I don't know.

我不知道。

I think that it can be a little industry specific as well for where it makes sense to be investing in the corporate channels.

我认为，对于投资企业渠道的意义而言，这也可能是针对特定行业的。

And you certainly can do that sort of thing.

你当然可以做这样的事情。

But I also think if you're going to do that, have an exec that you're also trying a social strategy with.

但我也认为，如果你打算这样做，请有一位高管与你一起尝试社交策略。

Don't just do the plain corporate channels.

不要只做简单的企业渠道。

Lenny: When I think of a brand doing this really well, it's Duolingo.

Lenny：当我想到一个在这方面做得非常好的品牌时，那就是 Duolingo。

They're just so hilarious and so ridiculous in there.

他们在那里真是太搞笑了，太可笑了。

And I don't know if the key is just funny is the way to go, and that's how you get any attention, but they're so funny and creative in their videos, especially TikTok.

我不知道关键是否只是有趣就是要走的路，这就是你获得关注的方式，但他们的视频非常有趣且富有创意，尤其是 TikTok。

Emilie Gerber: It's interesting though, we're getting to the point where even brands having a personality on social is becoming its own meme.

Emilie Gerber：不过，有趣的是，我们已经到了这样的程度，即使是在社交上具有个性的品牌也正在成为自己的模因。

People are making fun of how all the fast food brands all are like these Gen Z like TikTok-

人们取笑所有的快餐品牌都像这些 Z 世代，比如 TikTok——

Lenny: And they're all replying to each other on Twitter threads.

莱尼：他们都在 Twitter 上互相回复。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah.

埃米莉·格伯：是的。

And so things change quickly.

所以事情变化得很快。

So, yes, that was a good strategy, but you just have to stay on top of it.

所以，是的，这是一个很好的策略，但你必须掌握它。

Lenny: So you talked about how if this comes naturally to you as a founder, obviously do it.

莱尼：所以你谈到，如果作为创始人，这对你来说很自然，那么显然就应该这么做。

I'm guessing for most people it doesn't.

我猜对大多数人来说并不是这样。

Do you find that it can work if you're just like, "I know this is important, I need to tweet often and share things," have you seen that work or is it just like it's just probably not going to be something that works great for you?

如果你只是想，“我知道这很重要，我需要经常发推文并分享一些东西”，你是否发现它可以工作，你是否看到过这种工作，或者它只是可能不会对你有用？

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, I think it can work to some extent.

Emilie Gerber：是的，我认为这在某种程度上可以发挥作用。

Maybe you're not going to necessarily be going viral or getting hundreds or tens of thousands of followers.

也许你不一定会像病毒一样传播或获得数百或数万名追随者。

But for me personally I push myself to post on LinkedIn at least once a month, because every time I post we get at least one client inbound and maybe a candidate inbound.

但就我个人而言，我强迫自己每月至少在 LinkedIn 上发帖一次，因为每次我发帖时，我们都会收到至少一位客户的信息，也许还有一位候选人的信息。

And so if you test it and you start to see value, push yourself to do it even if it doesn't come naturally.

因此，如果你测试它并且开始看到价值，就强迫自己去做，即使它不是自然而然的。

And that's, I guess, the nice thing about social is it's easy to test out.

我想，社交的好处就在于它很容易测试。

You can try doing it, you can post for a while, even for a month or two, see how it's going, and then adjust your strategy accordingly.

你可以尝试去做，你可以发一段时间，甚至一两个月，看看进展如何，然后相应地调整你的策略。

Emilie Gerber: But, yes, I think for a lot of execs that we work with, it does feel like it's something that's really hard, there's a lot of overthinking, making sure it's right.

埃米莉·格伯：但是，是的，我认为对于与我们一起工作的很多高管来说，确实感觉这是一件非常困难的事情，有很多过度思考，以确保它是正确的。

You can get really in your head about it, and I totally understand that because I feel the same way.

你可以认真思考这一点，我完全理解这一点，因为我也有同样的感觉。

And so if it's taking up so much of your time and bandwidth just thinking about your social strategy, then I guess you can weigh if it makes sense to do that, but I think pushing yourself to try it is a great idea.

因此，如果仅仅考虑你的社交策略就占用了你大量的时间和带宽，那么我想你可以权衡这样做是否有意义，但我认为强迫自己去尝试是一个好主意。

Lenny: And then Aaron specifically is very good at this, is there anything that you learned from his approach to tweeting specifically?

莱尼：亚伦在这方面非常擅长，你从他的推特方法中学到了什么吗？

I don't know if he uses other platforms.

不知道他有没有用过其他平台。

That works really well for him.

这对他来说真的很管用。

Emilie Gerber: I actually think I just learned so much.

Emilie Gerber：我实际上认为我学到了很多东西。

So it was my first in-house job, so I had worked in an agency, I hadn't worked internally at a company before, and I think I just learned so much about comms best practices from him in general, just even beyond social.

这是我的第一份内部工作，所以我曾在一家代理机构工作过，我以前没有在公司内部工作过，我想我只是从他那里学到了很多关于通信最佳实践的知识，甚至超越了社交领域。

He was so good at figuring out how to comment on things happening in the news, having just the right stance that was both interesting to the reporter but not necessarily threatening to the business, and just capitalizing on all those moments.

他非常擅长弄清楚如何评论新闻中发生的事情，拥有正确的立场，既让记者感兴趣，又不一定对企业构成威胁，并且充分利用所有这些时刻。

And I just watched how that worked and I was like, "This is how good PR is." And it's like the space that they're in is not necessarily one that reporters are all writing about, but he was able to insert himself in those conversations really well.

我只是看着它是如何运作的，我就想，“这就是公关的好处。”就好像他们所处的空间不一定是记者们都在报道的空间，但他能够很好地融入这些对话中。

And I think also at the time that I was there at least just really valued press and was willing to put the time in and do the briefings.

我也认为当时我在那里至少真的很重视媒体，并且愿意花时间做简报。

Emilie Gerber: And so just getting to hear how he speaks over and over again was really helpful.

Emilie Gerber：所以一遍又一遍地听他说话真的很有帮助。

And then on Twitter, I think it clearly just comes naturally to him, and so it wasn't necessarily something that needed to...

然后在推特上，我认为这显然对他来说很自然，所以这不一定需要......

Like I mentioned, how some execs will spend all this time thinking through to the point where it could get in the way of other things.

就像我提到的，一些高管会花这么多时间思考它可能会妨碍其他事情。

I think that's not the case there.

我认为那里的情况并非如此。

And if anything, it just helped the business.

如果说有什么不同的话，那就是它对业务有所帮助。

And actually with his Twitter presence, I would say it's a good example too of stuff getting included in articles, like I mentioned in that Microsoft article.

实际上，由于他在 Twitter 上的存在，我想说这也是将内容包含在文章中的一个很好的例子，就像我在那篇 Microsoft 文章中提到的那样。

So it helps the PR strategy as well.

所以它也有助于公关策略。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

And we'll link to his Twitter account.

我们将链接到他的 Twitter 帐户。

This is Aaron, CEO of Box, by the way.

顺便说一句，这是 Aaron，Box 的首席执行官。

I think I mentioned at the beginning and then we just started talking about Aaron.

我想我在一开始就提到过，然后我们就开始谈论亚伦。

Also, I realize, he tweets about this sometimes, he actually makes money from Twitter, and now the Twitter pays you for views and things and they share ads, he makes thousands of dollars also from X now, by the way, not Twitter.

另外，我意识到，他有时会发推文谈论这个，他实际上从 Twitter 赚钱，现在 Twitter 向你支付浏览量和内容，他们分享广告，顺便说一句，他现在也从 X 赚了数千美元，而不是 Twitter。

Lenny: Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.

莱尼：是啊，这太可笑了。

I think I've gone through every question that I had for you.

我想我已经问过你的每一个问题了。

I'm curious if there's anything else that you think might be helpful to share or cover or leave listeners with.

我很好奇您是否认为还有其他任何内容可能对分享、报道或留给听众有帮助。

Emilie Gerber: I can leave with one very tactical media opportunity that I love.

Emilie Gerber：我可以带着一个我喜欢的非常有战术性的媒体机会离开。

Emilie Gerber: Okay, so here it is.

艾米莉·格伯：好的，就这样了。

It's a way to get a morning brew feature pretty somewhat easily.

这是一种相当轻松地获得早晨冲泡功能的方法。

So they have this series called Morning Brew Coworking series, and they have it for Emerging Tech Brew, they have it for HR Brew, all their verticals.

所以他们有这个系列，叫做 Morning Brew Coworking 系列，他们有 Emerging Tech Brew，他们有 HR Brew，他们所有的垂直领域。

I think there's a CFO one, marketing one.

我认为有一位首席财务官，一位营销人员。

And essentially if you go to the series, the coworking series, either at the top or the bottom, there's something where it's like, "If you want to be featured, click on this link and fill out this form," and it's about 10 questions.

本质上，如果你去看这个系列，联合办公系列，无论是在顶部还是底部，都会有这样的内容：“如果你想成为特色，请点击此链接并填写此表格”，大约有 10 个问题。

If you keep your answers interesting and fun and not too self-promotional, we've had, I would say, 50% success rate with getting execs featured that way.

如果你让你的答案保持有趣和有趣，而且不太自我推销，我想说，我们以这种方式让高管出现的成功率是 50%。

And all you have to do is submit through a Google form.

您所要做的就是通过 Google 表单提交。

And it's just one of my favorite media opportunities right now.

这只是我现在最喜欢的媒体机会之一。

It doesn't need to be CEO, actually probably shouldn't be a CEO in a lot of instances, but it's basically intended to help readers understand what the day-to-day looks in certain jobs and just get a little insight into the people that are in these jobs.

它不需要是首席执行官，实际上在很多情况下可能不应该是首席执行官，但它基本上是为了帮助读者了解某些工作的日常情况，并稍微了解从事这些工作的人员。

And so I guess I just wanted to share that as something that you could do today for over 10 minutes and potentially get a story.

所以我想我只是想把它分享为你今天可以做 10 分钟以上并可能得到一个故事的事情。

Although, maybe not after you post this, so we'll see if they get an influx.

不过，也许在你发布这篇文章后就不会了，所以我们会看看他们是否会涌入。

Lenny: We're going to take down Mailbrew.

Lenny：我们要拿下 Mailbrew。

Funny enough, they have an interview with Zuck today that they published on Morning Brew, so it could be you alongside Zuck.

有趣的是，他们今天在 Morning Brew 上发表了对扎克的采访，所以可能是你和扎克一起。

Lenny: Maybe before we get to our very exciting lightning round, it might be fun to chat about how to pick a PR agency.

莱尼：也许在我们进入非常激动人心的闪电轮之前，讨论一下如何选择公关机构可能会很有趣。

Obviously you run one.

显然你运行了一个。

When people are trying to decide who to work with and also when to decide to pick and work with a PR agency versus doing it themselves, what advice can you share when they're trying to make that big decision?

当人们试图决定与谁合作以及何时决定选择与公关机构合作而不是自己做时，当他们试图做出重大决定时，您可以分享什么建议？

Emilie Gerber: I think there's an assumption that bigger, more well-known agencies are going to do a better job.

Emilie Gerber：我认为有一种假设，即更大、更知名的机构会做得更好。

I think a lot of those bigger, well-known agencies are used to working with a lot of household brands.

我认为许多大型知名机构都习惯于与许多家喻户晓的品牌合作。

And so their strategies tend to be very reactive, focus in the messaging, maybe have to turn down a bunch of opportunities, control what people say.

因此，他们的策略往往非常被动，专注于消息传递，可能不得不拒绝一堆机会，控制人们的言论。

That is the polar opposite in my opinion of doing startup PR.

这与我对初创公司公关的看法截然相反。

Startup PR, you got to experiment, you got to try new things, you got to be scrappy, you got to be fast.

初创公关，你必须尝试，你必须尝试新事物，你必须斗志旺盛，你必须快。

We actually personally love diving into pitching right away rather than spending several months on messaging just testing and market right away.

事实上，我们个人喜欢立即投入到推销中，而不是花几个月的时间来进行消息传递，只是立即进行测试和营销。

And so don't assume just because they have the huge logos...

所以不要仅仅因为他们有巨大的标志就认为......

To your point, you're like, "Oh, well, you work with Perplexity, does that mean you know how to work with all these tiny companies?"

就你的观点而言，你会说，“哦，好吧，你与 Perplexity 合作，这是否意味着你知道如何与所有这些小公司合作？”

Emilie Gerber: That's not necessarily a good thing, so don't just go buy the big logos.

Emilie Gerber：这不一定是件好事，所以不要只买大标志。

I would say that's my first piece of advice.

我想说这是我的第一条建议。

My second piece of advice is find out what month one looks like with them.

我的第二条建议是找出他们的第一个月是什么样子。

If month one is them just doing intake calls and learning about the company, and you're a startup that's still really paying close attention to how much money you're spending, you're not going to necessarily want to partner with an agency that needs a three-month ramp up cycle.

如果第一个月他们只是进行招聘电话并了解公司，而您是一家仍在密切关注自己花费了多少钱的初创公司，那么您不一定想与需要三个月提升周期的机构合作。

And so really tactically understand what those first few months look like.

因此，要真正从战术上了解最初几个月的情况。

I think that's something that I've noticed is a lot of agencies take a while before they get their hands dirty and start doing things.

我认为我注意到很多机构都需要一段时间才能真正开始做事。

My third piece of advice would be writing recent writing samples.

我的第三条建议是写最近的写作样本。

To the point of all those press release excerpts I shared, is that how they write?

就我分享的所有新闻稿摘录而言，他们就是这样写的吗？

If it is, maybe they're not the right agency.

如果是的话，也许他们不是合适的机构。

So ask them.

所以问问他们。

That's so easy.

那太容易了。

That's so easy to do.

这很容易做到。

Emilie Gerber: Just ask them for a couple recent blogs or releases, whatever they tend to go for, and read those.

Emilie Gerber：只要向他们询问一些最近的博客或发布的内容，无论他们想要什么，然后阅读它们。

And, of course, wins too.

当然，也能获胜。

You want to see what kind of stories they're getting, but that's a little more obvious.

你想看看他们得到了什么样的故事，但这有点更明显。

A lot of people have already talked about this, so I'll just mention briefly, it's important to meet with the actual team you're working on, not just the founder of the agency.

很多人已经讨论过这个问题，所以我只简单提一下，与你正在工作的实际团队会面很重要，而不仅仅是该机构的创始人。

So asking who's our day-to-day going to be?

那么问我们的日常会是谁呢？

Can we chat with them really quick?

我们能很快和他们聊天吗？

One thing I would say don't do is an extensive RFP process.

我想说不要做的一件事是广泛的 RFP 流程。

We actually as an agency don't participate in RFPs.

实际上，作为一个机构，我们不参与 RFP。

The two times I've done it, I have regretted it just because of the amount of work going in versus the value that's there.

我已经做过两次了，我对此感到后悔，只是因为投入的工作量与其中的价值相比。

And it's you're asking a team to do a lot of free work for you, and generally I think the best players are not going to do that, so you're going to weed out some of the best players if you're asking them to do a lot of free upfront work.

你要求一个团队为你做很多免费的工作，一般来说，我认为最好的球员不会这样做，所以如果你要求他们做很多免费的前期工作，你就会淘汰一些最好的球员。

So those are a few considerations.

这些是一些考虑因素。

Lenny: Perfect.

莱尼：完美。

And then just two more questions, because I imagine this is what people are thinking about when they're trying to decide should we find somebody is how long ahead of time they should find someone before something big is happening?

然后还有两个问题，因为我想这就是人们在试图决定我们是否应该找到某人时所思考的问题，他们应该在大事发生之前提前多长时间找到某人？

And then just what's a budget they should have in mind for something like this?

那么对于这样的事情他们应该考虑多少预算呢？

What's a minimum or a range, whatever you think would be helpful for people to understand here's how much you're probably going to be investing here?

最低限度或范围是多少，无论您认为有助于人们了解您可能会在这里投资多少？

Emilie Gerber: Start times can vary from agency to agency.

Emilie Gerber：开始时间因机构而异。

I think we can get started the week that a client needs us to, so maybe I'm not best equipped to answer this, but I would say before an announcement happens, you probably want to kick off six weeks in advance.

我认为我们可以在客户需要我们的那周开始，所以也许我没有最好的能力来回答这个问题，但我想说在发布公告之前，您可能需要提前六周开始。

So when we start with the company, it's like we're working on the blog, we're doing a media training, we're doing the media outreach, we're getting quotes from investors, or coordinating with all the parties, making sure images are being created so it's not just pitching and securing the article.

因此，当我们从公司开始时，就像我们正在写博客，我们正在做媒体培训，我们正在做媒体外展，我们正在从投资者那里获得报价，或者与所有各方协调，确保创建图像，因此这不仅仅是推销和保护文章。

So I would say buffer with time to pitch, make sure that the reporter is actually able to cover it.

所以我想说的是，要缓冲宣传时间，确保记者实际上能够报道它。

Six weeks is ideal.

六周是理想的。

I would also note I highly recommend not having a firm date that you think you need to announce something and going instead with when a reporter is able to cover your story.

我还要指出的是，我强烈建议您不要确定您认为需要宣布某件事的确定日期，而是选择当记者能够报道您的故事时。

Emilie Gerber: We get so many clients that come to us and they have this set date in their head, but there's not usually a real reason for it.

Emilie Gerber：我们有很多客户来找我们，他们脑子里都有这个设定的日期，但通常没有真正的原因。

It's like they're planning around it, it's like they have other comms they want to go out that day, but if you can optimize for the reporter over the timing, you're going to see such a better outcome because getting the first choice reporter is going to drive way more for your business than announcing it four days sooner.

就好像他们正在围绕它进行计划，就像他们那天想要出去的其他通讯一样，但如果您可以在时间上优化记者，您将看到更好的结果，因为获得首选记者将为您的业务带来更多的推动力，而不是提前四天宣布。

So leaving a little bit of flexibility for that agency is key.

因此，为该机构留出一点灵活性是关键。

And I've even seen companies like issue a press release for big news with no coverage because they had stuck to a certain day and were very rigid about it, and they didn't get any stories for that reason.

我什至看到公司喜欢发布没有报道的重大新闻新闻稿，因为他们坚持某一天并且对此非常严格，因此他们没有得到任何报道。

And so I think a good agency would counsel to offer that flexibility.

因此，我认为一个好的机构会建议提供这种灵活性。

Emilie Gerber: So six weeks I think is the ideal amount of time.

Emilie Gerber：所以我认为六周是理想的时间。

And then budget, I would say the lowest end would probably be about 10K a month for an agency.

然后是预算，我想说对于一家机构来说，最低的可能是每月 10K 左右。

You can find consultants, I think the best ones would be at least 8K a month, but for a small boutique agency starts at 10.

你可以找顾问，我觉得最好的至少8K一个月，但是对于一个小型的精品机构来说，10美元起。

I'll just be transparent, I'm very open about our pricing, our rates start at 15K a month for our retainers, and actually that's for a series A companies generally what they're at.

我会保持透明，我对我们的定价非常开放，我们的固定费起价为每月 15,000 美元，实际上这对于 A 轮公司来说通常是这样的。

And then I would say unless you are a global business that needs basically different teams for different product lines, which happens when you're a Microsoft of the world, that's another story.

然后我想说，除非你是一家全球性企业，基本上需要不同的团队来负责不同的产品线（当你是世界上的微软时就会发生这种情况），那就是另一回事了。

But if you're just a series C startup that's getting a lot of attention, I wouldn't go beyond 30K probably.

但如果你只是一家备受关注的 C 轮初创公司，我可能不会超过 30K。

There are plenty of agencies that go into the 50s and 60s a month, but that's just a whole nother world, and I'm not an expert on that part.

有很多机构的月薪达到 50 多岁和 60 多岁，但这只是一个完全不同的世界，我不是这方面的专家。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

Thank you for sharing all that.

感谢您分享这一切。

What if you're going for just a one-off, just help me get one story, what's a range there for budget you should expect?

如果您只是一次性的，请帮我写一个故事，您应该期望的预算范围是多少？

Emilie Gerber: I would say between 10 and 20.

Emilie Gerber：我想说 10 到 20 之间。

And you might be able to find a consultant that'll do it for eight.

你或许可以找到一位顾问，花八个人的时间来做这件事。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

So helpful.

很有帮助。

Emilie, is there anything else you want to share before we get to our very exciting lightning round?

Emilie，在我们开始激动人心的闪电回合之前，您还有什么想分享的吗？

Lenny: Well, welcome to our very exciting lightning round.

莱尼：好吧，欢迎来到我们非常激动人心的闪电回合。

I've got six questions.

我有六个问题。

Are you ready?

你准备好了吗？

Lenny: First question, what are two or three books you've recommended most to other people?

莱尼：第一个问题，你向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？

Emilie Gerber: I have one that's very top of mind right now, so it's How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan.

埃米莉·格伯：我现在最关心的是迈克尔·波伦的《如何改变你的想法》。

Actually, I leave tonight for a week long psilocybin retreat.

事实上，我今晚要离开，进行为期一周的裸盖菇素静修。

Emilie Gerber: I know.

艾米莉·格伯：我知道。

I would be getting much more philosophical maybe.

也许我会变得更加哲学化。

Emilie Gerber: So very excited, I'm going to Jamaica.

Emilie Gerber：非常兴奋，我要去牙买加。

Emilie Gerber: And ever since researching that field, there's the whole concept of changing your neural pathways is just very fascinating to me.

Emilie Gerber：自从研究这个领域以来，改变神经通路的整个概念对我来说非常着迷。

And just opening up and shifting perspectives is something that I think will actually help me a lot just even in running a company, being a better leader, I think we're at a stage in our growth right now where we're hiring a lot and there's a lot of pressure and I just want to make sure I'm bringing my best self forward every day.

我认为，开放和转变观点实际上对我有很大帮助，即使是在经营一家公司、成为一个更好的领导者方面，我认为我们现在正处于成长阶段，我们正在招聘大量员工，压力很大，我只是想确保每天都能展现出最好的自己。

And so I'm really excited about it.

所以我对此感到非常兴奋。

Lenny: What an amazing answer.

莱尼：多么令人惊奇的答案啊。

This is going to be part of your set and setting this interview, but hopefully you can get it out of your mind.

这将成为你这次采访的一部分，但希望你能把它忘掉。

Emilie Gerber: No, totally.

艾米莉·格伯：不，完全不。

I was nervous.

我很紧张。

I'm like, "It's actually really great that this is happening and then I can completely unplug after it.

我想，“这件事发生真的很棒，然后我就可以完全拔掉插头了。

And so I think it's actually good timing.

所以我认为这实际上是一个很好的时机。

Lenny: I'm excited to hear how it goes.

莱尼：我很高兴听到事情进展如何。

Emilie Gerber: I'm not a big book recommender.

Emilie Gerber：我不是一个大书推荐者。

I have ADHD and reading full books is very hard for me, and so I'm just going to leave you with that one.

我患有多动症，阅读整本书对我来说非常困难，所以我只给你留下那一本。

I can do the occasional beach read I'll really focus, but it's not my main format of content consumption.

我可以偶尔进行海滩阅读，我会真正集中注意力，但这不是我内容消费的主要形式。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

All right, great answer.

好吧，很好的答案。

One's plenty.

一个就够了

Do you have a favorite movie or TV show you've really enjoyed?

您有最喜欢的电影或电视节目吗？

Emilie Gerber: My favorite genre is post-apocalyptic, end of the world survival.

Emilie Gerber：我最喜欢的类型是后世界末日、世界末日生存。

I need to mention my all time favorite show, because it would be bad not to.

我需要提一下我一直以来最喜欢的节目，因为不提就很糟糕了。

So Walking Dead is my comfort TV show, I can watch it when I'm going to sleep at night, but my most recent favorite was Yellowjackets.

所以《行尸走肉》是我的安慰电视节目，我可以在晚上睡觉时观看它，但我最近最喜欢的是《黄衫军》。

Are you familiar?

你熟悉吗？

Lenny: I've seen the poster on my TV, but I've not watched it.

莱尼：我在电视上看过海报，但我还没看过。

Emilie Gerber: Nice.

埃米莉·格伯：很好。

I discovered it a little late.

我发现的有点晚了。

I think the second season finished and they're working on the third.

我认为第二季已经结束，他们正在制作第三季。

But it has plane crash, and it has just shocking moment after shocking moment like cannibalism, very weird stuff.

但它有飞机失事，而且有一个又一个令人震惊的时刻，比如同类相食，非常奇怪的东西。

And it's one of those shows that sticks in your mind, which I like where you're thinking about it afterwards.

这是那些让你印象深刻的节目之一，我喜欢你事后想起它。

It's kind of creepy.

这有点令人毛骨悚然。

Lenny: Wow.

莱尼：哇。

I thought you were going for Last of Us, but I now have to watch this show.

我以为你会看《最后生还者》，但我现在必须看这个节目了。

Emilie Gerber: No, I watched Last of Us and I didn't feel like it had enough survival elements to it.

艾米莉·格伯：不，我看了《最后生还者》，我觉得它没有足够的生存元素。

It was like storytelling in that environment, but it wasn't actually a survival post-apocalyptic show in the way that I was looking for.

这就像在那种环境下讲故事，但它实际上并不是我想要的那种末世生存剧。

Lenny: Hardcore.

莱尼：硬核。

Do you have a favorite interview question you like to ask?

您有最喜欢问的面试问题吗？

And you could take this in any direction you want.

你可以把它朝任何你想要的方向发展。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah.

埃米莉·格伯：是的。

I have a new one.

我有一个新的。

We actually just revamped our interview process, so I wanted to make it harder.

实际上我们刚刚修改了面试流程，所以我想让面试变得更难。

So my new favorite question is if a client comes to you and they're convinced they have something that's press worthy, like an announcement that they think should be, I don't know, in the Wall Street Journal or something, and you know for a fact that it isn't, what steps do you take?

所以我最喜欢的新问题是，如果客户来找你，他们确信自己有一些值得报道的东西，比如他们认为应该在《华尔街日报》或其他什么网站上发布的公告，我不知道，而你知道事实并非如此，你会采取什么步骤？

What do you do next?

接下来你做什么？

And I like that question because they can handle it, one, from the client relations standpoint, how do you communicate with the client when they say something like that, but it's also a critical thinking and creativity question of how do you take a no and turn it into a yes?

我喜欢这个问题，因为他们可以处理这个问题，一，从客户关系的角度来看，当他们说这样的话时，你如何与客户沟通，但这也是一个批判性思维和创造力的问题，你如何把“不”变成“是”？

How do you take what they're giving you and make it into something interesting?

你如何利用他们给你的东西并将其变成有趣的东西？

And so I like to dig into that, and they can use a real example if they want, but I also think a lot of our job is pushing back in a way.

因此，我喜欢深入研究这一点，如果他们愿意，他们可以使用真实的例子，但我也认为我们的很多工作在某种程度上都在推迟。

And so that also shows if they're able and willing to push back.

这也表明他们是否有能力并且愿意反击。

Lenny: I'm so curious to hear people's answer to that.

莱尼：我很好奇人们对此的回答。

Do you have a favorite product that you recently discovered that you love?

您有最近发现自己喜欢的最喜欢的产品吗？

Emilie Gerber: I was very skeptical of Apple Vision Pro and I was making fun of it at the beginning, and the first time I tried it, I completely changed my tune, I'm so into it, I'm ordering one, and I'm very excited for actually using it for work.

Emilie Gerber：我对 Apple Vision Pro 非常怀疑，一开始我还取笑它，当我第一次尝试它时，我完全改变了我的态度，我非常喜欢它，我正在订购一个，我很高兴能够在工作中实际使用它。

I think it could be a really good use case for just my day-to-day at work.

我认为这对于我的日常工作来说可能是一个非常好的用例。

After I had tried it, the next day I messaged a bunch of clients that I thought could have relevant applications for it.

尝试后，第二天我给一群客户发了消息，我认为他们可能有相关的应用程序。

I'm like, "Do we have an Apple Vision Pro strategy?

我想，“我们有 Apple Vision Pro 策略吗？

Are we billing to talk about it publicly yet?" Because sometimes it's tying back to the PR conversation, I love if you're willing to push the envelope on stuff that you are building or are going to do and getting ahead of those conversations, so that's a lot of conversations I'm having right now is trying to convince clients to talk about that.

我们是否要公开谈论它？”因为有时这与公关对话有关，如果你愿意在你正在构建或将要做的事情上挑战极限并在这些对话之前取得进展，我喜欢你，所以我现在正在进行的很多对话都是试图说服客户谈论这个问题。

Lenny: So you have an Apple Vision Pro strategy, amazing.

Lenny：所以你们有 Apple Vision Pro 策略，太棒了。

Emilie Gerber: And then my other one, which is very self-serving, because they are a client, but I do use them every day, is Perplexity.

Emilie Gerber：然后我的另一个是 Perplexity，这是非常自私的，因为他们是客户，但我每天都使用它们。

I find it so helpful even just for like I'm working on an award submission, I forgot how much funding a client has raised, asking them that instead of opening five different Google links and trying to find the answer, it's just huge for quick information.

我发现它非常有帮助，即使只是因为我正在提交奖项，我忘记了客户筹集了多少资金，询问他们，而不是打开五个不同的谷歌链接并试图找到答案，这对于快速信息来说是巨大的。

Or writing a bio for an executive, getting just the TLDR of what they've done in their past, it's so good for PR use cases, and I actually think marketing and PR is going to be one of the core work applications for them.

或者为高管写一份简历，了解他们过去所做的事情的 TLDR，这对于公关用例非常有用，而且我实际上认为营销和公关将成为他们的核心工作应用程序之一。

Lenny: I've also already shared how much I love Perplexity, I have the Chrome extension installed.

Lenny：我也已经分享了我对 Perplexity 的喜爱程度，我安装了 Chrome 扩展程序。

I probably use it at least once a day for podcast interview prep along with a bunch of other stuff.

我可能每天至少使用它一次来准备播客采访以及其他一些东西。

So good find for customer.

对客户来说很好的发现。

I think they're going to do great.

我认为他们会做得很好。

Wish I was an investor.

希望我是一名投资者。

Emilie Gerber: I'm the happy investor.

Emilie Gerber：我是快乐的投资者。

I rarely angel invest and I was...

我很少进行天使投资，而且我...

Lenny: Okay, two more questions.

莱尼：好的，还有两个问题。

Do you have a favorite life motto that you often come back to, share with friends or family, either in work or in life?

您是否有最喜欢的人生格言，并且在工作或生活中经常与朋友或家人分享？

Emilie Gerber: Strong opinions loosely held, I'm a very opinionated trust my gut kind of person, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to change my mind on things and be wrong.

Emilie Gerber：我是一个非常固执己见、相信自己直觉的人，但这并不意味着我不愿意在事情上改变主意并犯错。

I first heard it from an influencer and then I Googled it, and apparently...

我首先是从一位有影响力的人那里听说的，然后我用谷歌搜索了它，显然......

What was it?

那是什么？

Jeff Bezos also said it at one point, so I have no idea the origin of the quote, but I think that's a good one.

杰夫·贝佐斯也曾说过这句话，所以我不知道这句话的出处，但我认为这是一个很好的说法。

You can still be really opinionated in life, but that doesn't mean you always are going to be right.

在生活中你仍然可能非常固执己见，但这并不意味着你总是正确的。

Lenny: Emilie, this was everything I hoped it would be.

莱尼：艾米丽，这就是我所希望的一切。

I feel like this is going to help so many people get awesome press.

我觉得这将帮助很多人获得精彩的媒体报道。

Thank you again so much for being here.

再次非常感谢您来到这里。

Two final questions.

最后两个问题。

Where can folks find you and reach out if they want to learn more or work with you?

如果人们想了解更多信息或与您合作，可以在哪里找到您并与您联系？

And how can listeners be useful to you?

听众如何对你有用？

Emilie Gerber: Our website is sixeastern.com and our email is hello@sixeastern.com, so you can find us there.

Emilie Gerber：我们的网站是 Sixeastern.com，我们的电子邮件是 hello@sixeastern.com，因此您可以在那里找到我们。

And actually I have a newsletter called On Background.

事实上，我有一份时事通讯，名为《背景》。

It's on Substack.

它位于子堆栈上。

And really what it's intended to be is a place for people to find these tactical opportunities, so it has media moves, it has reporters that are working on stories, it has awards that are open, all of this stuff that basically an intern in an agency would spend their days researching we put into a newsletter.

事实上，它的目的是让人们找到这些战术机会，所以它有媒体行动，它有正在报道故事的记者，它有开放的奖项，所有这些东西基本上是一个机构的实习生会花很多时间研究我们放入新闻通讯中的东西。

And so its main audience is PR people, but I actually think it could be a great resource for people within companies that don't have PR teams to stay on top of stuff.

因此，它的主要受众是公关人员，但我实际上认为，对于那些没有公关团队来掌控事务的公司内部的人员来说，这可能是一个很好的资源。

So I guess to be helpful, feel free to subscribe.

所以我想对你有帮助，请随意订阅。

And then other than that, we're hiring, so if you happen to be a PR person that got this far in the episode, always looking for great people to bring on.

除此之外，我们正在招聘，所以如果你碰巧是一名公关人员，并且在这一集中取得了如此大的成就，那么你总是在寻找优秀的人才来加入。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

Is there anything specific you're looking for in people you're hiring for people that may want to reach out other than they've been in PR?

您在招聘的人员中是否有什么特别需要寻找的人，这些人可能希望与公关部门以外的人接触？

Emilie Gerber: Ideally some B2B experience.

Emilie Gerber：最好有一些 B2B 经验。

I think doing B2B PR is very different from doing consumer PR.

我认为做 B2B 公关与做消费者公关有很大不同。

If you work with startups, that's a huge plus, you know how to be kind of scrappy and fast.

如果你与初创公司合作，这是一个巨大的优势，你知道如何变得斗志旺盛和快速。

And also people that just love to be really hands-on and doing the actual work.

还有那些喜欢亲力亲为、做实际工作的人。

We're very flat, so we're not a place where there's much managing of teams.

我们非常扁平化，所以我们不是一个需要太多团队管理的地方。

So it's really much more like a consultancy than anything else.

所以它实际上更像是一家咨询公司。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

Emilie, thank you so much for being here.

艾米莉，非常感谢你来到这里。

Emilie Gerber: Yeah, it was so fun.

艾米莉·格伯：是的，太有趣了。

Thank you so much.

太感谢了。

Lenny: Bye everyone.

莱尼：大家再见。

Thank you so much for listening.

非常感谢您的聆听。

If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。

Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.

另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。

You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.

您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。

See you in the next episode.

下一集见。