How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO)

Elizabeth Stone: We can't really have any of the other aspects of the culture, including candor, learning, seeking excellence in improvement, freedom and responsibility if you don't start with high talent density.

伊丽莎白·斯通：如果你不从高人才密度开始，我们就无法真正拥有这种文化的任何其他方面，包括坦诚、学习、追求卓越的改进、自由和责任。

And in some ways, it's very reflective of Reed Hastings as founder of Netflix.

在某些方面，这非常反映了作为 Netflix 创始人的里德·黑斯廷斯 (Reed Hastings)。

So when he founded Netflix and grew the company over time, it was with a belief that there could be a different approach to building a company that would make it a place that people thrived in and loved being and would feel different than other places, both in the quality of that talent density, but even more importantly, the excellence and the outcomes.

因此，当他创立 Netflix 并随着时间的推移不断发展公司时，他相信可以采用不同的方法来建立一家公司，使其成为一个让人们茁壮成长、热爱存在的地方，并在人才密度的质量上，以及更重要的是在卓越和成果上，感受到与其他地方不同的地方。

And that that's where people would derive a lot of sense of fulfillment.

这就是人们可以获得很多成就感的地方。

So it is very deeply seated at Netflix from its original days.

因此，从最初的时候起，它就在 Netflix 中根深蒂固。

And in order to do that, you have to really hold yourself to a lot of stuff that doesn't feel like natural human behavior.

为了做到这一点，你必须真正让自己坚持很多不符合人类自然行为的事情。

Lenny: Today my guest is Elizabeth Stone.

莱尼：今天我的客人是伊丽莎白·斯通。

Elizabeth is chief technology officer at Netflix, and as far as I can tell, the first economist to ever be named CTO at a Fortune 500 company.

伊丽莎白是 Netflix 的首席技术官，据我所知，她是第一位被任命为财富 500 强公司首席技术官的经济学家。

Prior to this role, Elizabeth was vice president of Data and Insights.

在此之前，伊丽莎白担任数据和洞察副总裁。

Before Netflix, she was vice president of science at Lyft, COO at Nuna, a trader at Merrill Lynch, and an economist at Analyst Group.

在加入 Netflix 之前，她曾担任 Lyft 的科学副总裁、Nuna 的首席运营官、美林的交易员以及 Analyst Group 的经济学家。

In our conversation, we cover a lot of ground.

在我们的谈话中，我们讨论了很多话题。

We talk about how an economics background has helped Elizabeth in her career and why she expects to see more economists rise in the ranks of tech companies.

我们讨论了经济学背景如何帮助伊丽莎白的职业生涯，以及为什么她期望看到更多经济学家在科技公司的行列中崛起。

She shares some of her secret sauce for rising so quickly at so many companies so consistently.

她分享了一些在如此多的公司如此迅速、持续不断地晋升的秘诀。

We delve into Netflix's very unique culture of high talent density, radical candor, and freedom and responsibility.

我们深入研究 Netflix 非常独特的文化，即高人才密度、激进的坦率、自由和责任。

We also talk about the structure that Netflix has for their data and user research teams, which she believes is a part of Netflix's secret to success.

我们还讨论了 Netflix 的数据和用户研究团队的结构，她认为这是 Netflix 成功秘诀的一部分。

We also get into what biking and triathlons have taught Elizabeth about life and how she brings that into her work and so much more.

我们还探讨了自行车和铁人三项运动教会了伊丽莎白关于生活的知识，以及她如何将这些知识融入到工作中等等。

Lenny: A huge thank you to Ali Rao for introducing me to Elizabeth.

莱尼：非常感谢阿里·拉奥（Ali Rao）将我介绍给伊丽莎白。

If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow this podcast in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.

如果您喜欢此播客，请不要忘记在您最喜欢的播客应用程序或 YouTube 中订阅并关注此播客。

This helps tremendously and I really appreciate it.

这非常有帮助，我真的很感激。

With that, I bring you Elizabeth Stone after a short word from our sponsors.

在我们的赞助商简短发言后，我为您带来了伊丽莎白·斯通。

Lenny: This episode is brought to you by Vanta.

莱尼：这一集是万塔给你带来的。

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现在，您可以使用单一平台 Vanta 评估风险、确保客户信任并自动实现 SOC 2、ISO 27001、HIPAA 等合规性。

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Vanta 市场领先的信任管理平台可帮助您持续监控合规性以及报告和跟踪风险。

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加入数千家使用 Vanta 自动化证据收集、统一风险管理和简化安全审查的全球公司行列。

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访问vanta.com/lenny，可享受 Vanta 立减 1,000 美元的优惠。

That's V-A-N-T-A.com/lenny.

那是 V-A-N-T-A.com/lenny。

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Lenny：让我向您介绍一下我们的产品 Sendbird，这是一款专为 Web 和移动应用程序设计的一体化通信 API 平台。

In a world saturated with multi-channel communication, product teams are discovering the effectiveness of in-app communication.

在一个充满多渠道沟通的世界中，产品团队正在发现应用内沟通的有效性。

With Sendbird, businesses can elevate their in-app experience with decluttered and branded communication featuring AI powered chatbots, one-way messages, chat, video calls and livestream capabilities all tailored for commerce, marketing, and top tier support.

借助 Sendbird，企业可以通过整洁的品牌通信提升其应用内体验，其中包括人工智能驱动的聊天机器人、单向消息、聊天、视频通话和直播功能，所有这些功能均专为商业、营销和顶级支持而定制。

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Hinge、Patreon、Yahoo!、Accolade 等具有前瞻性思维的公司使用 Sendbird 构建应用内通信体验，以提高参与度、转化率和保留率。

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在所有沟通渠道中，应用内沟通具有最高的转化率、最高的参与度和最高的满意度。

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当谈到投资这个渠道时，请相信 Sendbird 会将您的应用内通信体验提升到一个新的水平。

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作为 Lenny 播客的听众，您将获得额外两个月的无限制使用和访问所有高级功能的机会，包括创建您自己的生成人工智能聊天机器人。

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访问 sendbird.com/lenny 开始您的免费旅程。

That's sendbird.com/lenny.

那是 sendbird.com/lenny。

Lenny: Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.

莱尼：伊丽莎白，非常感谢你来到这里，欢迎来到播客。

Elizabeth Stone: Thank you.

伊丽莎白·斯通：谢谢。

Thank you for having me.

谢谢你有我。

Lenny: So when we booked this conversation, you are VP of data in Netflix.

莱尼：所以当我们预订这次谈话时，您是 Netflix 的数据副总裁。

And since then you got a promotion, you're now the CTO of Netflix, which feels significantly more fancy.

从那时起，你得到了晋升，现在你是 Netflix 的首席技术官，这感觉明显更高级。

Question for you, what is life like now that you are CTO versus VP of data?

问你一个问题，现在你担任首席技术官和数据副总裁，生活是什么样的？

How is it most different?

它有何不同？

I'm imagining more meetings.

我正在想象更多的会议。

Elizabeth Stone: I would say the biggest thing that changed is probably the amount of context switching and the degree to which I feel behind or I have a lot to learn.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我想说，最大的变化可能是上下文切换的数量以及我感觉落后的程度，或者我有很多东西需要学习。

And I felt like I had a lot to learn in the VP of data and insights role that I was in before in part because we cover a lot of different areas of the business and there's always people to learn from, but the engineering organization just takes that to 100 basically.

我觉得在我之前担任的数据和洞察副总裁职位上，我有很多东西需要学习，部分原因是我们涵盖了许多不同的业务领域，并且总有值得学习的人，但工程组织基本上只是将其扩展到 100 人。

So more people to get to know, more problem spaces, aspects of technical expertise that I'm just not as deeply familiar with.

因此需要认识更多的人、更多的问题空间、更多我不太熟悉的技术专业知识。

And yeah, a lot more meetings.

是的，还有更多的会议。

Lenny: I imagine many higher stakes meetings as well.

莱尼：我想象也会有许多更高风险的会议。

Elizabeth Stone: Yes.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的。

So thankfully not a lot of meetings that Netflix feel like now you're really in this scary room, but it does feel like the role has more consequence, which is actually an exciting thing.

值得庆幸的是，Netflix 并没有太多的会议让你感觉现在真的在这个可怕的房间里，但确实感觉这个角色有更多的后果，这实际上是一件令人兴奋的事情。

Lenny: Kind along the lines of what you just talked about being a CTO.

Lenny：就像您刚才谈到的 CTO 一样。

Your background is actually unusual.

你的背景其实很不寻常。

You're a trained economist, you got a PhD in economics.

你是一位训练有素的经济学家，你获得了经济学博士学位。

And from what I can tell, you're the first CTO of Fortune 500 company that is an economist trained in economics.

据我所知，您是财富 500 强公司中第一位受过经济学训练的经济学家 CTO。

First of all, is that true?

首先，这是真的吗？

I don't know if I think that's true, but you tell me.

我不知道我是否认为这是真的，但你告诉我。

Elizabeth Stone: I have not checked the list.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我还没有检查过名单。

That was one of the things I did not do after getting the title.

这是我获得冠军后没有做的事情之一。

It might be unusual.

这可能是不寻常的。

I've heard a lot of feedback on that, so I don't know if I'm the one and only, but I will definitely say it's probably unusual.

我听到了很多对此的反馈，所以我不知道我是否是唯一的，但我肯定会说这可能很不寻常。

Lenny: Yeah.

莱尼：是的。

So I guess the question is just, do you think this is an anomaly and going to continue to be really rare?

所以我想问题只是，你认为这是一种异常情况并且会继续非常罕见吗？

Do you think this some are going to see more at tech companies?

您认为科技公司会更多地看到这种情况吗？

And generally do you think tech companies should hire more economists?

一般来说，您认为科技公司应该雇用更多经济学家吗？

Elizabeth Stone: Yes to the last question.

伊丽莎白·斯通：最后一个问题是的。

That's the easiest of it.

这是最简单的。

But one of the things I observed even with the focus on data science where I've been deeper for a period of time is that economics is a flavor of data science.

但我观察到的一件事是，即使我专注于数据科学，我已经深入研究了一段时间，但经济学是数据科学的一种风格。

So it is a set of technical skills for sure.

所以它肯定是一套技术技能。

It's a way of framing certain problems or solving challenges.

这是构建某些问题或解决挑战的一种方式。

Elizabeth Stone: And so when I was first switching from economics into tech, it was before there was a lot of sort of the frenzy around data science that we've seen more recently and it was harder to make that argument that economics is a flavor of data science and maybe complimentary to other versions of data science.

伊丽莎白·斯通：所以当我第一次从经济学转向科技时，我们最近看到了数据科学的狂热，很难说经济学是数据科学的一种风格，也许是对其他版本的数据科学的补充。

And I feel more strongly about that now that I've seen it up close.

现在我近距离看到了它，对此我的感受更加强烈。

And so maybe by extension I would say just like I think data science can be helpful for a lot of different problems that you might not immediately think, "Oh, this is something that we should bring data to," I think that economics is generally valuable for a lot of different challenges and it's a useful perspective to add to things, especially in a business context and especially in how we want to simplify problems in a way that makes them feel tractable.

因此，也许通过扩展，我会说，就像我认为数据科学可以帮助解决许多不同的问题一样，你可能不会立即想到，“哦，这是我们应该用数据来解决的问题，”我认为经济学对于许多不同的挑战通常是有价值的，并且它是一个有用的视角，可以添加到事物中，特别是在商业环境中，特别是在我们希望如何以一种让问题变得容易处理的方式简化问题时。

Elizabeth Stone: So I feel like that's been a benefit to me to have had that type of formal training and then bring that perspective or way of thinking to different roles.

伊丽莎白·斯通：所以我觉得接受这种正式培训然后将这种观点或思维方式带到不同的角色对我来说是有好处的。

And so I don't know that many people at Netflix think of me as an economist, but I find it comes out in the way I think about things.

所以我不知道 Netflix 的很多人都认为我是一名经济学家，但我发现这体现在我思考事物的方式上。

So to the extent that that's true generally, I think it's useful in a lot of companies.

因此，就一般情况而言，我认为它对很多公司都很有用。

And I feel like even since I made the switch towards tech, I've seen it become much, much more common to think about the value of having economists on teams.

我觉得，自从我转向科技行业以来，我发现思考团队中经济学家的价值变得越来越普遍。

Lenny: Just to pull on that thread a little bit more, is there something very tactical or concrete that you can share that you find helpful with that background that you found helpful in your career?

莱尼：再稍微拉扯一下这个话题，有没有什么非常战术性或具体的东西可以分享，你认为对你的职业生涯有帮助的背景？

Elizabeth Stone: Other than the dismal dry science of it all?

伊丽莎白·斯通：除了这一切令人沮丧的枯燥科学之外？

So one example would probably be in an understanding incentives and thinking about unintended consequences.

因此，一个例子可能是理解激励因素并思考意想不到的后果。

I think that that is true both in terms of internal leadership, so being part of a management team that's thinking about how do we clarify priorities or motivate a company or define the problems we want to solve.

我认为这对于内部领导力而言都是如此，因此作为管理团队的一部分，我们正在思考如何澄清优先事项或激励公司或定义我们想要解决的问题。

And then part of it is more externally oriented.

然后一部分是更加面向外部的。

How do we want to think about what Netflix is to consumers and how we want to think about competition?

我们如何看待 Netflix 对消费者的意义以及如何看待竞争？

Elizabeth Stone: There can be a rational way of thought, which is one version of economics of shouldn't rational intelligent people behave in the following way.

伊丽莎白·斯通：可能存在一种理性的思维方式，这是经济学的一个版本，理性的聪明人不应该以下列方式行事。

And then there's the, well, if given certain incentives, what might you see that we didn't think was optimal or we weren't expecting to happen but could be a consequence or repercussion here?

然后，如果给予一定的激励，你可能会看到什么是我们认为不是最佳的或我们没有预料到会发生但可能会产生后果或影响的事情？

And so I think that that type of framing, I don't know if it's unique to economics in a way because it has elements of psychology to it as well and planning ahead has become really useful for thinking through cause and effect.

所以我认为这种类型的框架，我不知道它在某种程度上是否是经济学所独有的，因为它也有心理学的元素，提前计划对于思考因果关系变得非常有用。

So that has come up in a lot of different spaces in Netflix and in other roles I've been in.

所以这在 Netflix 的很多不同领域以及我担任过的其他角色中都出现过。

Lenny: I was looking at your LinkedIn and looking at your career over the years.

莱尼：我一直在查看您的 LinkedIn 并查看您这些年来的职业生涯。

It seems like you've had a meteoric rise at four different companies.

看起来你在四家不同的公司都获得了飞速的晋升。

And I'll just walk through them briefly.

我将简要介绍一下它们。

So at your first job, you went from associate to vice president in three years.

因此，在您的第一份工作中，您在三年内从助理晋升为副总裁。

At the next company, Nuna, you went from manager of data science to COO in two years.

在下一家公司 Nuna，您在两年内从数据科学经理晋升为首席运营官。

At Netflix you went from VP to CTO in three years.

在 Netflix，您在三年内从副总裁晋升为首席技术官。

I think that's really rare.

我认为这确实很少见。

I'm curious what is your secret sauce to being so successful at so many places and especially in the context of what advice can you share with folks earlier in their career?

我很好奇您在如此多的地方取得如此成功的秘诀是什么，特别是您可以与职业生涯早期的人们分享哪些建议？

Elizabeth Stone: This is one of those questions that sparks the reflection that I wouldn't normally do, so that's great.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这是引发我通常不会思考的问题之一，所以这很好。

I really don't think of it as a secret sauce, but maybe I can walk through some of the things that I think have been instrumental.

我真的不认为这是一个秘密武器，但也许我可以逐步介绍一些我认为有用的事情。

As you listed that out, it sounds like the two to three year point is the real sweet spot, so maybe there's something about that timeline.

正如您所列出的那样，听起来两到三年的时间点是真正的最佳时机，所以也许这个时间表有些道理。

But I think some things almost feel trite in how I would say them, which is I'm very dedicated to the work and to the teams I'm part of.

但我认为有些事情在我的表达方式上几乎感觉陈词滥调，那就是我非常专注于工作和我所在的团队。

It's been part who I am for a long time that I give everything I've got to the job that I'm in.

很长一段时间以来，我为我所从事的工作付出了我所拥有的一切，这已经成为我的一部分。

And I think that dedication and that I get joy out of that has mattered.

我认为奉献精神以及我从中获得的快乐很重要。

It matters because I enjoy what I'm doing.

这很重要，因为我喜欢我正在做的事情。

I do the best work I possibly can, less so for myself and my own ambition and more so because I think of myself as being part of a team and so I really need to deliver for that team.

我尽我所能，尽我所能，不是为了自己和自己的野心，而是因为我认为自己是团队的一部分，所以我真的需要为该团队做出贡献。

Elizabeth Stone: I think that framing in my mind and that motivation has helped me in a few fronts, which is the way in which I build partnerships with people I work with that I really care about setting other people up for success and being someone that people want to work with, so I learn from them, they learn from me, and we get better outcomes for the business together, I have found that part of that is being someone that people can leverage to translate from technical to non-technical and non-technical to technical.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我认为我头脑中的框架和动力在几个方面帮助了我，这就是我与同事建立合作伙伴关系的方式，我真正关心的是帮助其他人取得成功，并成为人们愿意与之合作的人，所以我向他们学习，他们向我学习，我们一起为业务取得更好的成果，我发现其中一部分是成为人们可以利用的人，从技术到非技术，从非​​技术到技术。

So that I do think has been a relative advantage in my role.

所以我确实认为这是我的角色的相对优势。

So while I was often sitting in more technically-oriented teams, a lot of the advancement in my career was to roles that required that type of communication fluency.

因此，虽然我经常坐在更注重技术的团队中，但我职业生涯中的很多进步都是针对需要这种流畅沟通的角色。

It grew out of being able to partner with people across the businesses who didn't necessarily have the same background, but where we needed to really connect spaces so that we could be more effective.

它源于能够与不同企业的人员合作，这些人员不一定具有相同的背景，但我们需要真正连接空间，以便我们能够更加有效。

Elizabeth Stone: That was something that I think really the training for that came from analysis group where it was a very quantitative set of work that we had to find a way to communicate to judges and juries for economic cases.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我认为这确实是来自分析小组的培训，这是一组非常定量的工作，我们必须找到一种与经济案件的法官和陪审团进行沟通的方法。

So that was something that was trained in other roles and I think I've been able to leverage.

所以这是在其他角色中接受过的培训，我想我已经能够利用了。

I'm a relatively introverted only child, so I observe a lot, which means that I learned from other people.

我是一个比较内向的独生子，所以我观察很多，这意味着我向别人学习。

And in each of these roles I have tried really hard to watch what other people are doing, think about how could I learn something from them, whether it's the thing that I want to be able to do myself or it's the thing that I think, "Oh, that doesn't quite fit or feel authentic with my style." And I do a lot of that introspection.

在每个角色中，我都非常努力地观察其他人在做什么，思考我如何才能从他们身上学到一些东西，无论是我希望自己能够做的事情还是我认为“哦，这不太适合我的风格或感觉不真实”的事情。我做了很多内省。

So I have been surrounded by amazing people in all these roles and I have a feeling that I learned a lot by osmosis and observation and then have been able to leverage that to be stronger in the roles I was sitting in.

因此，我周围都是担任所有这些职位的出色人士，我有一种感觉，通过潜移默化和观察，我学到了很多东西，然后能够利用这些知识在我所担任的职位上变得更强。

Lenny: I took a few notes here.

莱尼：我在这里做了一些笔记。

A few things you mentioned is just like, dedication, essentially working really hard and taking your work seriously, being part of a team and setting other people up for success, translating complex tech language and problems to non-tech people, and then being really good at observing and learning from other people around you.

你提到的一些事情就像，奉献精神，本质上是非常努力工作并认真对待你的工作，成为团队的一员并帮助其他人取得成功，将复杂的技术语言和问题翻译给非技术人员，然后非常善于观察并向周围的其他人学习。

Is there an example or two that you could share of some of these to make it even more concrete for people?

您是否可以分享其中的一两个例子，以使其对人们来说更加具体？

Like dedication.

喜欢奉献。

Is that just like working many hours, being part of a team?

这就像工作很多时间、成为团队的一员一样吗？

Anything along those lines to share a story maybe to help people put this into practice.

任何分享故事的内容都可能有助于人们将其付诸实践。

Elizabeth Stone: No, and it's a good clarification because the dedication piece really isn't about long working hours.

伊丽莎白·斯通：不，这是一个很好的澄清，因为奉献文章实际上并不是关于长时间工作。

It's more about how much I care about excellence, I guess.

我想，更多的是我对卓越的关心程度。

So giving it my best in those situations.

所以在这种情况下我会尽力而为。

And that might not mean that I work really wild hours or I work weekends or I'm the one who's willing to sacrifice the vacation.

这可能并不意味着我工作时间非常疯狂，或者我周末工作，或者我是那个愿意牺牲假期的人。

I've actually tried to avoid setting that as an expectation, but more that I hold myself to a very high standard.

事实上，我试图避免将其设定为一种期望，但更多的是我对自己要求很高的标准。

Elizabeth Stone: So an example would be, especially as I've gotten more senior in roles, there can be an expectation that it's okay for other people to wait on me.

伊丽莎白·斯通：举个例子，尤其是当我的职位越来越高时，人们可能会期望其他人可以侍候我。

So whether it's the timing for a meeting or providing input on something or reviewing a document or following through on something I said that I was going to do, and I really try to avoid that, which means that if someone sends me something, I try to be very responsive about it.

因此，无论是开会的时间、提供意见、审查文件还是跟进我说我要做的事情，我都会尽力避免这种情况，这意味着如果有人给我发了一些东西，我会尽力做出回应。

If I know that I said I'm going to do something, I follow through on it in the timeline that I said I was going to do.

如果我知道我说过我要做某事，我就会按照我说过的时间表去做。

If I have a meeting, I try to be on time to that meeting.

如果我有会议，我会尽量准时参加会议。

Elizabeth Stone: Those are all flavors of dedication to the work that show up in, "Oh, it seems like Elizabeth works really hard," but the motivation factor is other people are relying on me and I want to show up for them.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这些都是对工作的奉献精神，表现在“哦，伊丽莎白工作真的很努力”，但动力因素是其他人依赖我，我想为他们服务。

And so that's when I say dedication and it's related to the second point around showing up well for the team, those would all be examples of I feel urgency in responding to people and doing high quality work.

所以当我说奉献精神时，它与为团队表现良好的第二点有关，这些都是我在回应人们和做高质量工作方面感到紧迫的例子。

Elizabeth Stone: For the other parts of technical to non-technical, I think a great example is actually a very timely one at Netflix, which is, we are making strides to offer live content types.

伊丽莎白·斯通：对于技术和非技术的其他部分，我认为一个很好的例子实际上是 Netflix 的一个非常及时的例子，也就是说，我们正在大力提供直播内容类型。

So live events, live TV shows.

所以现场活动，现场电视节目。

We announced this week that we're going to be hosting WWE starting later this year and early next year, 2025.

我们本周宣布，我们将于今年晚些时候和明年初（2025 年）举办 WWE。

That is easier said than done.

说起来容易做起来难。

I know that there's a lot of entertainment companies that have live content.

我知道有很多娱乐公司都有直播内容。

But Netflix has really been in the streaming content business, so live content is something new for us and it's something that's going to require a really close partnership between our content organization and our products and technology organization because there's a content strategy to it, there's a business strategy, there's a technology strategy to it.

但 Netflix 确实涉足流媒体内容业务，因此直播内容对我们来说是新事物，这需要我们的内容组织、我们的产品和技术组织之间建立非常密切的合作伙伴关系，因为它有内容策略、业务策略和技术策略。

A big part of my role is, can I explain how we're going to approach those technical problems in a way that builds competence with the content team?

我的一个重要职责是，我能否解释一下我们将如何以培养内容团队能力的方式解决这些技术问题？

Can I try to understand their content strategy in a way that sets the technical teams up for success and we understand what we need to be able to deliver on here in terms of requirements.

我是否可以尝试以一种让技术团队取得成功的方式理解他们的内容策略，并且我们了解我们需要能够根据需求在这里交付什么。

Elizabeth Stone: I don't think I'd be able to do my current role well if I wasn't able to do that type of translation for something that's going to be a big bet for the business and something we want to invest in jointly.

伊丽莎白·斯通（Elizabeth Stone）：如果我不能为对企业来说是一个很大的赌注以及我们想要共同投资的东西进行这种类型的翻译，我认为我无法很好地胜任目前的角色。

And then to set my partners up for success in that.

然后让我的合作伙伴在这方面取得成功。

So I am going to do everything I can to make sure we deliver well for my content partners because I feel like that's what's best for Netflix in the business.

因此，我将尽我所能，确保我们为我的内容合作伙伴提供良好的服务，因为我觉得这对 Netflix 的业务来说是最好的。

Lenny: Amazing examples.

莱尼：令人惊奇的例子。

In terms of life content, I think about the Love is Blind.

就生活内容而言，我想到了《爱情是盲目的》。

I think it was for premier, whatever, reunion that we got sucked into that show.

我想我们是为了首映，不管怎么说，重聚才被卷入那个节目的。

So good job.

干得好。

And I think there were some issues with that, right?

我认为这存在一些问题，对吗？

That reunion streak.

那次重逢。

Elizabeth Stone: Well, yeah, that was about a little less than a year ago now.

伊丽莎白·斯通：嗯，是的，那是大约不到一年前的事了。

So the amazing thing about failure is you learn a lot.

所以失败的惊人之处在于你可以学到很多东西。

We learned a lot.

我们学到了很多。

We've taken notes on it and we had a couple successful events after that, including the Netflix Cup last October.

我们对此做了记录，此后我们举办了几场成功的活动，包括去年 10 月的 Netflix 杯。

And we've got some exciting events coming up.

我们即将举办一些激动人心的活动。

So I think that's something that strengthened us, but did reveal that we're tackling a hard problem.

所以我认为这增强了我们的力量，但也表明我们正在解决一个难题。

Lenny: Yeah, the Twitter feeds during that, Love is Blind premiere were hilarious.

莱尼：是的，《Love is Blind》首映期间的 Twitter 消息非常搞笑。

People are pissed.

人们很生气。

Lenny: Okay.

莱尼：好的。

And then in terms of the, keeping a high bar for yourself, I love that.

然后就为自己保持高标准而言，我喜欢这一点。

I think about a quote that...

我想到了一句话...

There's a VC, Ann Miura-Ko, at Floodgate and she did this interview with Tim Ferris.

Floodgate 有一位 VC，Ann Miura-Ko，她接受了 Tim Ferris 的采访。

She shared that her dad always asked her, "Are you doing a World-class job with this?

她分享说，她的父亲总是问她：“你在这方面做得世界级吗？

Are you doing a world-class job with your homework?

你的家庭作业做得世界一流吗？

Are you doing a world-class job with your piano recital?" And that's the bar that he always had for her.

你的钢琴独奏会表现得世界一流吗？”这就是他一直为她设立的酒吧。

And I feel like that's a really good way to think about work and life in general if you can.

我觉得如果可以的话，这是思考工作和生活的一个非常好的方式。

Elizabeth Stone: Yeah, my mother used to describe to me, probably still does, though it required more repeating when I was younger, that the last 5% is the 5% that really mattered.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的，我母亲曾经向我描述过，也许现在仍然如此，尽管在我年轻的时候需要更多地重复，最后 5% 才是真正重要的 5%。

And so it is that framing of the extra effort you put into something to make it world-class or to make it excellent.

因此，它是你为某件事付出额外努力以使其成为世界一流或使其变得优秀的框架。

And so I do like to push myself that way and I hope it sets a good example for other people too.

所以我确实喜欢这样推动自己，我希望这也能为其他人树立一个好榜样。

It's very consistent with especially the company cultures that I tend to thrive in where that's the general expectation of the culture.

这与我倾向于蓬勃发展的公司文化非常一致，尤其是在这种文化的普遍期望中。

So you don't feel like you're doing it alone, because then I think you can start to feel frustrated by that.

所以你不会觉得你是一个人在做这件事，因为我认为你会开始感到沮丧。

Lenny: I know that this is a big part of Netflix culture and I want to get into it.

莱尼：我知道这是 Netflix 文化的重要组成部分，我想参与其中。

But before that, I'm curious just what that looks like with people that report to you.

但在此之前，我很好奇向你汇报的人是什么样的。

How do you help them level up in this skill of having a really high bar?

您如何帮助他们提高这项具有很高标准的技能？

And an example I'll give as you think about maybe an example is the way I described this to my PMs was, you want to have this aura that you've got this that, "If you give Lenny something, he's got this.

当你想到一个例子时，我会举一个例子，我向我的产品经理描述这一点的方式是，你想要拥有这样的光环，“如果你给莱尼一些东西，他就会得到这个。

He's going to follow up, he's going to close the loop, he's going to get it done.

他会跟进，他会关闭循环，他会完成它。

If he can't get it done, he'll tell me, I feel like this thread will not disappear.

如果他做不到的话，他会告诉我，我觉得这条线索不会消失。

He won't drop this ball." Is there anything that you've learned as a good way to help someone learn this kind of skill, understand why this is so important?

他不会丢这个球的。”您是否学到了什么可以作为帮助某人学习此类技能并理解为什么这如此重要的好方法？

Elizabeth Stone: It shows up for the people who report to me, is one part example setting.

伊丽莎白·斯通（Elizabeth Stone）：它向向我报告的人展示，是示例设置的一部分。

So if I don't do it, why would they do it?

那么如果我不这样做，他们为什么要这么做呢？

I treat that very seriously that we should all be held to the same standards.

我非常严肃地对待这一点，我们都应该遵守相同的标准。

Elizabeth Stone: And as a second thing, I give feedback when it's not up to the standard.

伊丽莎白·斯通：第二件事，当不符合标准时我会提供反馈。

So I think one of the things I've observed especially with people on my teams is that the expectations aren't always clear and you can't assume that they're clear if you don't share them.

所以我认为我观察到的一件事，特别是与我的团队成员一起，期望并不总是明确的，如果你不分享它们，你就不能假设它们是明确的。

When something's not meeting expectations or really showing up as excellence, I think it's a combination of both giving the feedback on that and being direct about it and being specific about what would it take to get this to the bar that I am expecting or to show up in the way that I'm expecting.

当某件事没有达到预期或没有真正表现出卓越时，我认为这是提供反馈和直接反馈的结合，并具体说明如何才能使其达到我期望的标准或以我期望的方式出现。

Elizabeth Stone: And then the third and probably most important thing is help them fill that gap.

伊丽莎白·斯通：第三件事，可能也是最重要的事情是帮助他们填补这一空白。

So that would mean...

那么这意味着...

Let's take an example.

让我们举个例子。

It certainly has happened frequently in many jobs.

这种情况在很多工作中确实经常发生。

A document is okay, it's not great, it's not going to be easy for people to follow, it's not as crisp as it could be.

文档还可以，但不是很好，人们不容易理解，也不够清晰。

There's things that would strengthen it.

有些东西可以加强它。

I can both give the feedback on that to make sure like, yes, it's going to take another round of iteration, yes, we're going to have to work another week on this and not be done with it, but pushing people to get there, and then jumping into the document and helping.

我都可以提供反馈，以确保，是的​​，这将需要另一轮迭代，是的，我们将不得不再花一周的时间来解决这个问题，而不是完成它，而是推动人们到达那里，然后跳入文档并提供帮助。

Elizabeth Stone: So I feel very strongly about, and that's kind of what I mean by setting an example of like, "Let's work on this together," and then through that, help people uplevel themselves so the next time around they know the expectations and they've had help getting there in the past.

伊丽莎白·斯通：所以我对此感觉非常强烈，这就是我的意思，通过树立一个例子，“让我们一起努力”，然后通过这个例子，帮助人们提升自己，这样下一次他们就会知道期望，并且他们在过去已经得到了帮助来实现这一目标。

So that's probably happened a thousand times in my career where I jump in with both feet because something needs to be better and I think the teams are better for it afterwards, or I hope they are.

所以，在我的职业生涯中，这种情况可能发生过一千次，我双脚投入，因为有些事情需要变得更好，我认为球队之后会变得更好，或者我希望他们是。

Lenny: I think that's such a good framework just to kind of mirror back what you said, "Set expectations that the bar is going to be really high and here's what I'm expecting from you." Give them very specific feedback on where the gap is and then help them fill that gap.

莱尼：我认为这是一个很好的框架，正好可以反映您所说的“设定很高的期望，这就是我对您的期望”。就差距所在向他们提供非常具体的反馈，然后帮助他们填补这一差距。

I think a lot of people may feel this and hear this and they're like, "Oh man, I don't want a manager that's like this high of an expectation person and it just feels really stressful." But I've had these managers and I feel like that's when I've learned the most and leveled up the most, is having someone that had really high expectations and then helped me understand, "Here's where you're not doing as well as you can.

我想很多人可能都会感受到这一点并听到这一点，他们会说，“哦，伙计，我不想要一个对人有如此高期望的经理，而且感觉压力很大。”但我有过这些经理，我觉得那是我学到最多、提升最多的时候，是有人对我抱有很高的期望，然后帮助我理解，“这就是你做得不够好的地方。

I know you can do better.

我知道你可以做得更好。

Go back and work on this." I know that sounds annoying, but I think in practice it ends up helping you most in your career.

回去处理这件事吧。”我知道这听起来很烦人，但我认为在实践中它最终对你的职业生涯有最大的帮助。

I imagine you've seen a similar result.

我想您也看到过类似的结果。

Elizabeth Stone: I think so.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我想是的。

I mean you'd have to ask some of the people on my team.

我的意思是你必须询问我团队中的一些人。

So I might look at it differently that they look at it.

所以我可能会以不同的方式看待它。

Elizabeth Stone: It's a hard skill because it's not always easy to give feedback, especially if you feel like you know someone's put a lot of effort into something.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这是一项硬技能，因为提供反馈并不总是那么容易，特别是当你觉得你知道某人在某件事上付出了很多努力时。

And so I give a lot of thought to how I deliver that feedback so it feels like we're on the same team and I'm trying to help them be successful, not to help encourage failure.

因此，我对如何提供反馈进行了很多思考，这样感觉就像我们在同一个团队中，我正在努力帮助他们成功，而不是帮助鼓励失败。

And that's where I think that third piece of the framework of jumping in to help can make people feel like, "I'm in a safe space.

这就是我认为介入帮助框架的第三部分可以让人们感觉，“我在一个安全的空间。

My manager wants me to be successful.

我的经理希望我成功。

My manager's helping me here." I do often do that behind the scenes.

我的经理正在这里帮助我。”我经常在幕后这样做。

So maybe that's another flavor of this, which is, I don't do it live in the big meeting in front of all the people where the presentation doesn't go very well.

所以也许这就是另一种风格，那就是，我不会在大型会议上当着所有人的面进行现场演示，因为那里的演示进展得不太顺利。

I do it afterwards where it feels like a safer space to say, "Here's a way this could have gone better.

之后我会在感觉更安全的地方说：“这是一种可以做得更好的方法。

Let's think about this differently next time." So it gives people a little grace and a little bit of an ability to absorb that feedback without feeling like it's kind of on a stage.

下次我们以不同的方式思考这个问题吧。”因此，它给人们带来了一点优雅和一点能力来吸收反馈，而不会感觉像是在舞台上。

Lenny: Another thing someone may be feeling when they're hearing this is like, "Oh my god, it's going to take me so many hours to just get it to a place Elizabeth is happy with." And I know you said that this doesn't mean necessarily many hours.

莱尼：当人们听到这句话时，他们可能会有的另一件事是，“天哪，我要花很多时间才能把它送到伊丽莎白满意的地方。”我知道你说过这并不一定意味着要花很多时间。

Do you have any advice or thoughts on just how to avoid burnout and working all the time, but also keeping this really high bar and high expectations?

对于如何避免倦怠和一直工作，同时又保持如此高的标准和高期望，您有什么建议或想法吗？

Elizabeth Stone: It truly is not about time.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这确实不是时间的问题。

I even found myself in a meeting earlier today saying, "If we're clear on the objectives of something, it might be that the last 20% of polish on the document is a really bad use of time.

我什至发现自己在今天早些时候的一次会议上说：“如果我们明确某件事的目标，那么对文档的最后 20% 的润色可能是非常糟糕的时间利用。

So if we're going to come together to talk through..." Like quarterly business review was the example, what were the highlights?

因此，如果我们要聚在一起讨论……”就像季度业务回顾一样，亮点是什么？

What were the low lights?

昏暗的灯光是什么？

What were the learnings from the quarter?

本季度的经验教训是什么？

Where are there places of misalignment?

哪些地方有错位的地方？

The reason we're doing the quarterly business review is to have a really candid conversation about how we think things are going, to have a debate about things where maybe we're stuck.

我们进行季度业务审查的原因是要进行一次真正坦诚的对话，讨论我们认为事情的进展情况，就我们可能陷入困境的事情进行辩论。

It's not to have a perfectly polished document for that conversation.

这并不是为这次谈话准备一份完美的文件。

Elizabeth Stone: So my feedback in that instance would be, I would much rather have someone spend the time thinking about what's the conversation we really want to have?

伊丽莎白·斯通：所以在这种情况下我的反馈是，我更希望有人花时间思考我们真正想要进行的对话是什么？

"How do I tee that up?" Not, "Could I spend another 20 hours to make it look like everything's perfect in this document?" And so I think in that sense it's not just excellence, like you wrote the perfect document, I should probably be careful to not use that as the only example, but instead we really got to the outcome we wanted to get to because we were thoughtful about it and we put a lot of energy and time and iteration into making sure we got to that outcome.

“我该怎么做呢？”不是“我可以再花 20 个小时让这份文档看起来一切都很完美吗？”所以我认为从这个意义上说，这不仅仅是卓越，就像你写了一份完美的文档一样，我可能应该小心不要用它作为唯一的例子，而是我们真正得到了我们想要的结果，因为我们对此进行了深思熟虑，我们投入了大量的精力、时间和迭代来确保我们得到这个结果。

Lenny: And is this an example where you gave someone feedback that they spent too much time on the polish or is this earlier?

莱尼：这是一个你给某人反馈说他们花了太多时间在润色上的例子还是更早的？

And to give the pyramid of this framework you kind of shared of set expectations, give specific feedback, help them fill the gap and then do it in private, is this the expectation setting in this example or is this feedback you spend too much time on this?

为了给这个框架的金字塔你分享设定的期望，提供具体的反馈，帮助他们填补空白，然后私下做，这是这个例子中的期望设置还是你在这个反馈上花了太多时间？

Elizabeth Stone: This is expectation setting.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这是期望设定。

So one of the things in my new role is that there's some practices that the team has had where they're trying to understand, Are we still going to have those practices?

因此，我的新角色中的一件事是，团队已经进行了一些实践，他们试图理解，我们还会有这些实践吗？

What's going to be the same versus different about those things?" and get an understanding of my expectations.

这些事情有什么相同点和不同点？”并了解我的期望。

So it's great that people ask that question so that I can be clear about, "Oh wait, if you're on the last 20% of this polishing the dock, I'd rather spend time over here.

所以很高兴有人问这个问题，这样我就可以清楚地知道，“哦等等，如果你在打磨码头的最后 20%，我宁愿花时间在这里。

And here's how I would like the conversation to go so we all get something out of it instead of it feeling like it's just a leadership reviewer on my behalf." So in this specific situation, it was setting expectations ahead of time so that we can set everyone up for success.

我希望对话能够这样进行，以便我们都能从中有所收获，而不是感觉这只是代表我的领导力审核员。”因此，在这种特定情况下，需要提前设定期望，以便我们可以为每个人的成功做好准备。

Lenny: Awesome.

莱尼：太棒了。

Okay.

好的。

So we've kind of been talking around this, but this is an important part of the Netflix culture.

所以我们一直在讨论这个问题，但这是 Netflix 文化的重要组成部分。

Just broadly, Netflix has a really special and unique culture.

总的来说，Netflix 拥有非常特殊且独特的文化。

Even though it's been around for I think over 25 years now, it feels like the culture has come up many times.

尽管它已经存在了 25 年多了，但感觉这种文化已经出现过很多次了。

There's that initial culture deck that came out that blew everyone's minds.

最初的文化套牌的出现让每个人都大吃一惊。

There's a recent book, No Rules Rules I think it's called.

最近有一本书，我想它叫《无规则规则》。

And it feels like Netflix has done a great job at maintaining its culture.

Netflix 在维护其文化方面做得非常出色。

Lenny: It feels to me there's these three important elements, and maybe there's more.

莱尼：我觉得有这三个重要因素，也许还有更多。

One is very high talent density and a focus on high performers.

一是人才密度非常高，并且注重高绩效人才。

Two is candor and being really direct.

二是坦诚和直接。

And then three is giving people freedom and responsibility and getting rid of useless processes like vacation time and things like that.

第三是给予人们自由和责任，并摆脱诸如休假之类的无用流程。

So maybe just to dive into that first one of high talent density and this focus on high performance.

因此，也许只是深入探讨第一个高人才密度和对高绩效的关注。

I guess the question there is just like, what does this look like in Netflix?

我想问题就在于，这在 Netflix 中是什么样子的？

And I imagine part of it is hiring, part of it is performance reviews.

我想其中一部分是招聘，一部分是绩效评估。

And then just why is it so important?

那么为什么它如此重要呢？

Why is this such a focus on Netflix?

为什么 Netflix 如此受关注？

What happens when you have such a high talent density?

当人才密度如此之高时会发生什么？

Elizabeth Stone: It's just so intrinsic to who Netflix is as a company.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这就是 Netflix 作为一家公司的本质。

And in some ways it's very reflective of Reed Hastings as founder of Netflix.

在某些方面，这非常反映了作为 Netflix 创始人的里德·黑斯廷斯 (Reed Hastings)。

So when he founded Netflix and grew the company over time, it was with a belief that there could be a different approach to building a company that would make it a place that people thrived in and loved being and would feel different than other places, both in the quality of that talent density, but even more importantly, the excellence and the outcomes and that that's where people would derive a lot of sense of fulfillment.

因此，当他创立 Netflix 并随着时间的推移不断发展公司时，他相信可以采用不同的方法来建立一家公司，使其成为一个让人们茁壮成长、热爱存在、感觉与其他地方不同的地方，无论是在人才密度的质量上，还是更重要的是，在卓越和成果上，人们会从中获得很多成就感。

So it is very deeply seated at Netflix from its original days.

因此，从最初的时候起，它就在 Netflix 中根深蒂固。

Elizabeth Stone: A big piece of that talent density is definitely hiring.

伊丽莎白·斯通：人才密度的很大一部分肯定是招聘。

So who are the people coming in and joining the team?

那么谁是进来加入团队的人呢？

But a lot of it is, we can't really have any of the other aspects of the culture, including candor, learning, seeking excellence and improvement, freedom and responsibility if you don't start with high talent density.

但很多情况下，如果你不从高人才密度开始，我们就无法真正拥有这种文化的任何其他方面，包括坦诚、学习、追求卓越和改进、自由和责任。

Elizabeth Stone: And so in some ways it's not the end, it's the means to the end in what Reed and the rest of the leadership team has been trying to build.

伊丽莎白·斯通：所以从某些方面来说，这不是终点，而是里德和领导团队其他成员一直在努力建立的终点的手段。

And so in order to do that, you have to really hold yourself to a lot of stuff that doesn't feel like natural human behavior.

因此，为了做到这一点，你必须真正让自己坚持很多感觉不像人类自然行为的东西。

What I mean by that is giving the feedback, this gets into the second bucket.

我的意思是提供反馈，这属于第二个桶。

So giving feedback, being candid around your expectations when they're not being met, what could be better in helping people improve, and be able to receive that type of feedback yourself in order to keep talent density high?

因此，提供反馈，在期望未得到满足时坦诚地表达自己的期望，还有什么能更好地帮助人们改进，并且自己能够收到此类反馈以保持较高的人才密度呢？

Because no one comes to Netflix as a perfect human being and stays a perfect human being the whole time.

因为没有人以一个完美的人的身份来到 Netflix 并一直保持一个完美的人。

We all have ways that we could grow and improve.

我们都有可以成长和进步的方法。

And so in order to keep that bar high, you have to be willing to have those types of very uncomfortable conversations.

因此，为了保持较高的标准，您必须愿意进行此类非常不舒服的对话。

It's an uncomfortable amount of candor and feedback in order to keep that bar high.

为了保持高标准，如此多的坦诚和反馈是令人不安的。

Elizabeth Stone: And then the other piece of it is another thing that doesn't come naturally to humans, which is making a call in pretty timely fashion if someone's not able to meet the bar, and to say either, "I don't think the role you're sitting in is the right role, or I don't think that Netflix is the right place for you," and to make that something that is part of best practice to get to a point where you could make that decision.

伊丽莎白·斯通：另一件事对人类来说并不自然，那就是如果有人无法达到标准，就会非常及时地打电话说，“我认为你所担任的角色不是正确的角色，或者我认为 Netflix 不适合你”，并将其作为最佳实践的一部分，以便你可以做出决定。

And that's where we refer to the keepers test, which is really just a mental framing to make sure we hold ourselves accountable for this.

这就是我们提到的守门员测试，这实际上只是一个心理框架，以确保我们对此负责。

Where if I'm asking myself the question, "If this person on my team came to me and said, 'I'm leaving today.

如果我问自己这个问题，“如果我团队中的这个人来找我说，‘我今天要离开。

I have a different opportunity and I would like to take it,' would I do everything I could to keep them at Netflix?" If not, then I should be having that tough conversation about, "Should you really be here?

我有一个不同的机会，我想抓住它，’我会尽一切努力让他们留在 Netflix 吗？”如果没有，那么我应该进行一场艰难的对话，“你真的应该在这里吗？

Are you in the right role?", if I might be a little bit relieved if you said you were leaving.

你的角色合适吗？”，如果你说你要离开，我可能会稍微松一口气。

Elizabeth Stone: The reason the keeper test and that question is useful is because no one wants to think that way.

伊丽莎白·斯通：守门员测试和这个问题之所以有用，是因为没有人愿意这样想。

It's very hard to say to someone, "I think this isn't the right fit.

很难对某人说：“我认为这不合适。

I think you should move on from the company." So we have to introduce some of those reflections in order to encourage the behavior.

我认为你应该离开公司。”因此，我们必须引入其中一些反思，以鼓励这种行为。

And we also then want to get to a place where when you're having that tough conversation, people aren't surprised by it.

我们还希望达到这样一个境界：当你进行艰难的谈话时，人们不会对此感到惊讶。

That is easier said than done.

说起来容易做起来难。

But you can only get to that conversation around, "I don't think Netflix and you are the right fit for one another" if you've been giving feedback along the way.

但如果您一直在提供反馈，那么您只能围绕“我认为 Netflix 和您不合适”进行对话。

And so it feels like in its most ideal state, it's a mutual observation.

所以感觉就像在最理想的状态下，这是一种相互观察。

In practice, it's not always that smooth.

在实践中，事情并不总是那么顺利。

Obviously we are humans.

显然我们是人类。

But that all feeds on itself in order to make sure that we're really holding ourselves to what we say our behavioral norms as part of the culture.

但这一切都是为了确保我们真正遵守我们所说的作为文化一部分的行为规范。

Lenny: How is that operationalized?

莱尼：这是如何运作的？

Is that just mental model that you should have in mind?

这只是您应该牢记的心理模型吗？

Or is it like every quarter you should go through this exercise?

或者是每个季度您都应该进行此练习吗？

Is it part of the performance review process?

它是绩效评估流程的一部分吗？

How does that actually operationalize at Netflix?

这在 Netflix 是如何实际运作的？

Elizabeth Stone: It's definitely a mental model.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这绝对是一种心智模型。

So when we talk to managers about what does it mean to be a manager at Netflix, it would mean you should be with some frequency asking yourself this about the people on your team.

因此，当我们与经理谈论成为 Netflix 经理意味着什么时，这意味着您应该经常问自己关于团队成员的问题。

People ask me frequently, "Am I passing your keeper test?" So it becomes part of a regular manager direct report, one on one.

人们经常问我：“我通过了你们的守门员测试吗？”因此，它成为定期经理直接报告的一部分，一对一。

And it is just another way of saying, "Am I meeting your expectations?

这只是另一种说法，“我达到你的期望了吗？

What's going well?

进展顺利吗？

What's not going well?

什么事情进展不顺利？

How are you thinking about things?" And that can sometimes be a very awkward conversation to have.

你是怎么想的？”有时这可能是一次非常尴尬的谈话。

So in the middle of a lot of like, "We have to talk about this project or that deliverable or this thing that's happening," to take the time to step back and just say, "How am I doing?", can feel loaded sometimes.

因此，在很多类似“我们必须谈论这个项目或可交付成果或正在发生的事情”的中间，花时间退一步说“我做得怎么样？”，有时会感到压力重重。

And the keeper test, while it feels like a very heavy concept, creates a lightness around being able to have that conversation regularly.

守门员测试虽然感觉是一个非常沉重的概念，但围绕能够定期进行这种对话创造了一种轻松感。

So we do operationalize it.

所以我们确实将其付诸实施。

A point that you made, I'll just clarify, we don't have performance reviews.

我只是澄清一下你提出的观点，我们没有绩效评估。

Elizabeth Stone: So we don't have a practice that a lot of other companies do where we would think about reflecting on a rating of how things are going.

伊丽莎白·斯通：因此，我们没有像其他许多公司那样考虑对事情进展情况进行评级的做法。

We do have an annual cycle of 360 feedback where you request and receive feedback from a lot of people, but it's not an input to some output, it's just for the value of the feedback and to make sure we're keeping that muscle.

我们确实有一个每年 360 度反馈的周期，您可以在其中请求并收到很多人的反馈，但这并不是某些输出的输入，这只是为了反馈的价值并确保我们保持这种实力。

And we have an annual compensation cycle where we reflect on how are people doing?

我们有一个年度薪酬周期，我们会反思人们的表现如何？

And so you think about performance as part of both promotions and as part of compensation, but in that way it has to be part of the day-to-day and part of the operating rhythm because we don't create a process where that would come to the surface.

因此，您可以将绩效视为促销和薪酬的一部分，但这样它就必须成为日常工作和运营节奏的一部分，因为我们不会创建一个将其浮现出来的流程。

Lenny: Interesting.

莱尼：有趣。

I didn't know that.

我不知道。

So the idea there is just ongoing, like the whole...

所以这个想法一直在持续，就像整个......

So what many people dream of, no performance reviews, we'll give you ongoing real-time feedback.

因此，许多人梦想的就是，无需绩效评估，我们将为您提供持续的实时反馈。

We don't have to wait six months.

我们不必等待六个月。

I feel like people talk about this but rarely do this, but that's how you guys operate.

我觉得人们谈论这个但很少这样做，但这就是你们的运作方式。

Elizabeth Stone: In practice.

伊丽莎白·斯通：在实践中。

It's like you have to keep reminding yourself, "This is our ideal" because it's really easy to rely on the annual 360 cycle.

就好像你必须不断提醒自己，“这是我们的理想”，因为每年 360 度的循环真的很容易依赖。

And all of a sudden I do get about 300 pieces of feedback.

突然间我确实收到了大约 300 条反馈。

And some of those things are on things that happened six months ago and I think, "Oh, I wish you had told me this at the time, that would've been more living the Netflix culture." So we have to push ourselves to do it that way.

其中一些事情是六个月前发生的事情，我想，“哦，我希望你当时告诉我这些，那会让 Netflix 文化更加生动。”所以我们必须强迫自己这样做。

But yeah, that is if working well, it's very timely direct feedback.

但是，是的，如果运作良好，这是非常及时的直接反馈。

The 360 site goal is sort of the annual check-in on, "Let me get the full picture.

360 网站的目标是每年一次的检查，“让我了解全貌。

Let me be able to distill some themes.

让我能够提炼出一些主题。

Let me tee it up for a conversation with my manager." And then it does remove the sort of crutch of an every six month performance review or something like that.

让我准备好与我的经理进行一次对话。”然后它确实消除了每六个月一次绩效评估或类似的东西。

Lenny: When you talked about this example of someone asking you often, "Am I meeting your keeper test?", it makes me feel like someone's just super nervous.

莱尼：当你谈到这个例子时，有人经常问你，“我符合你的守门员测试吗？”，这让我觉得有人超级紧张。

They're like, "Am I passing your keeper test?" And it makes me feel like it could create a culture of just like a lot of stress and worry and this hunger games mentality of like, "I got to compete and worry and I might die or get fired any day." I'm guessing the solution to that is partly cultural.

他们就像是，“我通过了你们的守门员测试吗？”这让我觉得它可以创造一种充满压力和担忧的文化，以及这种饥饿游戏的心态，“我必须竞争并担心，我可能会死或有一天被解雇。”我猜解决这个问题的部分原因是文化。

This is just the way we work.

这就是我们的工作方式。

You don't need to stress all the time, but you may be let go if you're not meeting this keeper test.

你不需要一直有压力，但如果你没有达到这个守门员测试，你可能会被解雇。

How do you avoid this just constant worry that you might be fired any day and that you may not be hitting the bar?

您如何避免这种不断担心自己可能有一天被解雇以及自己可能达不到标准的担忧？

Elizabeth Stone: In my personal experience, I have felt a lot more at ease by having these conversations than by not having them.

伊丽莎白·斯通：根据我个人的经验，进行这些对话比不进行这些对话让我感到轻松得多。

So in many roles I've had, I haven't been sure how I was doing or things I could be doing better on, and I didn't quite know how to get that information.

因此，在我担任过的许多角色中，我不确定自己做得怎么样，或者哪些事情可以做得更好，而且我不太知道如何获取这些信息。

And that made me feel much more stressed or nervous or at risk than having it be part of the culture to have those conversations.

与让这些对话成为文化的一部分相比，这让我感到更大的压力、紧张或风险。

Elizabeth Stone: So the thing that I think can be nerve wracking, and I feel it myself, is the high bar for excellence at Netflix and if we're doing this while you're surrounded by amazing people.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我认为最令人伤脑筋的事情是，我自己也有这样的感觉，那就是 Netflix 追求卓越的标准很高，如果我们在周围都是优秀的人的情况下做这件事。

And that can feed a sense of, "Am I doing well enough compared to how everyone else is doing?

这可以让人产生这样的感觉：“与其他人相比，我做得足够好吗？

I know the bar's high." For the most part, that can drive people and in a good way, but in some ways it makes people nervous.

我知道门槛很高。”在大多数情况下，这可以很好地激励人们，但在某些方面它会让人们感到紧张。

And that's where I think it's helpful to know we expect to have these conversations so you can just kind of let your shoulders relax a little bit of, "Yes, the expectations are high, but my manager says I'm doing a great job, or my manager says I'm not doing a great job, but they gave me concrete things that I could do better." And so I think knowing is better than not.

这就是我认为知道我们期望进行这些对话是有帮助的，这样你就可以让你的肩膀放松一点，“是的，期望很高，但我的经理说我做得很好，或者我的经理说我做得不好，但他们给了我可以做得更好的具体事情。”所以我认为知道总比不知道好。

And so in that sense, it's the culture combined with the conversations around performance I hope take a little bit of that stress out of it.

因此，从这个意义上说，我希望文化与围绕绩效的对话相结合，可以减轻一点压力。

But I've certainly heard it a lot that without that conversation, people can be nervous.

但我确实经常听到这样的说法：如果没有这种对话，人们可能会感到紧张。

Lenny: That's such a good point and such a good example that I feel like every company wants to have a high bar and have only high performers and keep the bar really high for every person they hire.

莱尼：这是一个很好的观点和一个很好的例子，我觉得每个公司都希望有一个高标准，只拥有高绩效的员工，并为他们雇用的每个人保持很高的标准。

I'm curious, I know this could be its own podcast and book, but just in terms of hiring people that are amazing and keeping this bar of excellence, is there anything you can point out that might be helpful to other companies hiring to help identify amazing people and make sure that bar stays high?

我很好奇，我知道这可能是它自己的播客和书籍，但就雇用令人惊叹的人才并保持卓越标准而言，您是否可以指出任何可能对其他公司招聘人员有所帮助的内容，以帮助识别出色的人才并确保保持高标准？

One thing I know is you guys pay a top market for salary.

我知道的一件事是你们支付的薪水是最高市场水平的。

I think that's one unique thing about Netflix, is we just pay people.

我认为 Netflix 的独特之处在于我们只付钱给人们。

So maybe that's an part of this answer, but just what advice do you have for people to keep a really high bar in their talent?

所以也许这就是这个答案的一部分，但是你对人们保持高水平的才能有什么建议呢？

Elizabeth Stone: Yeah, I mean on the compensation point, we pay what we call personal top of market, meaning we want to be highly competitive in the pay, but we don't want pay to be like the golden handcuffs of Netflix sets market rather than paying people a strongly competitive compensation.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的，我的意思是在薪酬方面，我们支付我们所说的个人市场最高水平的薪酬，这意味着我们希望在薪酬方面具有高度竞争力，但我们不希望薪酬像 Netflix 设置市场的金手铐一样，而不是向人们支付极具竞争力的薪酬。

So I think that that's important for attracting and retaining talent and has been a big part of the culture, but almost more importantly, we hope we don't have to rely on that to want people to want to be at Netflix or for us to be able to assess whether people are going to thrive at Netflix.

因此，我认为这对于吸引和留住人才非常重要，并且一直是公司文化的重要组成部分，但更重要的是，我们希望不必依赖这一点来希望人们愿意加入 Netflix，或者让我们能够评估人们是否会在 Netflix 茁壮成长。

Elizabeth Stone: The way that I've thought about hiring with that context is we know we're going to offer you very highly competitive compensation, but are you going to come to Netflix and help us identify the right problems to solve or new ways to solve existing problems?

伊丽莎白·斯通：在这种背景下，我考虑招聘的方式是，我们知道我们将为您提供极具竞争力的薪酬，但您是否会来 Netflix 帮助我们确定需要解决的正确问题或解决现有问题的新方法？

And that's a different way of hiring than you might think about, especially at scale where you're saying, "Does this person have this skill, this skill, this skill?

这是一种与你想象的不同的招聘方式，尤其是在大规模的情况下，你会说，“这个人有这个技能，这个技能，这个技能吗？

Check they're going to fit in this box and they're going to deliver this work that I need them to do." I'm being intentionally simplistic.

检查他们是否适合这个盒子，他们是否能够完成我需要他们做的工作。”我故意简单化。

I recognize a lot of people don't hire actually that way.

我认识到很多人实际上并不是这样招聘的。

But at Netflix we try really hard to say we're looking for the new perspective or the person who's actually going to make us stronger as a team.

但在 Netflix，我们非常努力地宣称我们正在寻找新的视角或真正能让我们作为一个团队变得更强大的人。

So thinking about additive skills, additive perspectives, people who are going to push our thinking on something.

因此，要考虑附加技能、附加观点以及将推动我们思考某件事的人。

That tends to help us with thinking about talent density because you're constantly introducing people to the team who uplevel.

这往往有助于我们思考人才密度，因为你不断地向团队介绍升级的人。

Elizabeth Stone: So then the questions you have to ask in an interview might be different because yes, we're trying to assess do you have the baseline skills to be successful here, but we're also looking for the things that make people exceptional or even stronger than the team we've got.

伊丽莎白·斯通：那么你在面试中要问的问题可能会有所不同，因为是的，我们正在尝试评估你是否具备在这里取得成功的基本技能，但我们也在寻找使人们脱颖而出甚至比我们现有团队更强大的东西。

And then you think about making the magical teams comprised of all those amazing minds and what can you get out of that.

然后你会考虑让所有这些令人惊叹的人才组成神奇的团队，以及你能从中得到什么。

And that feels like more that the talent density and practice.

这感觉更像是人才密度和实践。

Lenny: Got it.

莱尼：明白了。

So the advice there essentially is, don't look for someone just simply great.

所以这里的建议本质上是，不要仅仅寻找优秀的人。

Look for someone that raises the bar for the whole team, brings in a whole new perspective.

寻找能够提高整个团队的标准、带来全新视角的人。

Elizabeth Stone: Yes.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的。

That's a great way to say it.

这是一个很好的表达方式。

Yeah, it's a good way to say it.

是的，这是一个很好的表达方式。

Lenny: I think what's great about this idea of just maintaining excellence consistently is that the best people want to work with the best people.

莱尼：我认为持续保持卓越这一想法的伟大之处在于，最优秀的人愿意与最优秀的人一起工作。

And as soon as there's one person that sucks and the company allows for that, it just brings everyone down because they know, "Hey, we can be okay.

一旦有人表现得很糟糕，而公司允许这种情况发生，就会让每个人都很沮丧，因为他们知道，“嘿，我们可以没事的。

We'll stick or no one's going to do anything about it." And when you make it clear, we only want the best and only hire the best and only keep the best, it keeps the best there, right?

我们会坚持下去，否则没人会采取任何行动。”当你说清楚时，我们只想要最好的人，只雇用最好的人，只保留最好的人，这样就能留住最好的人，对吗？

I imagine that's part of the strategy.

我想这是战略的一部分。

Elizabeth Stone: Yeah.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的。

It's definitely the goal.

这绝对是目标。

And I think understanding that having gaps in the team and people's skillsets or their behavior can be really toxic for other people on the team.

我认为，团队和人们的技能或行为之间的差距对于团队中的其他人来说确实是有害的。

So it's a cost.

所以这是一个成本。

Lenny: This episode is brought to you by Xplo, a game changer for customer facing analytics and data reporting.

Lenny：本集由 Xplo 为您带来，Xplo 是面向客户的分析和数据报告的游戏规则改变者。

Are your users craving more dashboards, reports, and analytics within your product?

您的用户是否渴望在您的产品中提供更多仪表板、报告和分析？

Are you tired of trying to build it yourself?

您是否厌倦了尝试自己构建它？

As a product leader, you probably have these requests on your roadmap, but the struggle to prioritize them is real.

作为产品领导者，您的路线图上可能有这些请求，但确定它们的优先级的困难是真实存在的。

Lenny: Building analytics from scratch can be time-consuming, expensive, and a really challenging process.

Lenny：从头开始构建分析可能非常耗时、昂贵，而且是一个非常具有挑战性的过程。

Enter Xplo.

输入 Xplo。

Xplo is a fully white labeled embedded analytics solution designed entirely with your user in mind.

Xplo 是一款完全白标的嵌入式分析解决方案，其设计完全考虑到您的用户。

Getting started is easy.

入门很容易。

Xplo connects to any relational database or warehouse.

Xplo 连接到任何关系数据库或仓库。

And with its low-code functionality, you can build and style dashboards in minutes.

凭借其低代码功能，您可以在几分钟内构建和设计仪表板。

Once you're ready, simply embed the dashboard or report into your application with a tiny code snippet.

准备就绪后，只需使用一小段代码将仪表板或报告嵌入到您的应用程序中即可。

The best part?

最好的部分？

Your end users can use Xplo's AI features for their own report and dashboard generation, eliminating customer data requests for your support team.

您的最终用户可以使用 Xplo 的 AI 功能来生成自己的报告和仪表板，从而消除对支持团队的客户数据请求。

Build and embed a fully white labeled analytics experience in days.

在几天内构建并嵌入完全白标的分析体验。

Try it for free at xplo.co/lenny.

请访问 xplo.co/lenny 免费试用。

That's E-X-P-L-O.co/lenny.

那是 E-X-P-L-O.co/lenny。

Lenny: So I asked on Twitter what questions to ask you.

莱尼：所以我在 Twitter 上问要问你什么问题。

And there's a great question that came in from Nan Yu.

南宇提出了一个很好的问题。

He's the head of product for Linear and he asks, "What practices does Netflix do that other companies should not attempt to do because their talent level is so much higher than other companies?"

他是 Linear 的产品主管，他问道：“Netflix 做了哪些其他公司不应该尝试做的做法，因为他们的人才水平比其他公司高得多？”

Elizabeth Stone: That is freedom and responsibility in a nutshell.

伊丽莎白·斯通：简而言之，这就是自由和责任。

So let me explain that.

让我解释一下。

It's a good question.

这是一个好问题。

It's kind of related to what I was saying earlier, that talent density is a prerequisite for a lot of the other ways we operate.

这与我之前所说的有点相关，人才密度是我们许多其他运营方式的先决条件。

So if we want to create a work environment where we are not prescriptive about how people solve problems or the scope of problems that they could tackle, assuming they're highly impactful for the business, and we don't have a lot of process around that work, so think about being able to make large innovations to our engineering systems or introducing new ways to think about metrics and experimentation, we get a lot of those things because we give people the freedom and the space to explore and question things and experiment in a way with solutions.

因此，如果我们想要创建一个工作环境，在这个环境中，我们不规定人们如何解决问题或他们可以解决的问题范围，假设这些问题对业务有很大影响，而且我们没有太多围绕这项工作的流程，所以考虑能够对我们的工程系统进行重大创新或引入新的方式来思考指标和实验，我们会得到很多这样的东西，因为我们给了人们自由和空间来探索和质疑事物并以解决方案的方式进行实验。

I think that that would be very hard if not dangerous if we didn't have a high talent density.

我认为，如果我们没有高人才密度，那即使不是危险，也会非常困难。

Elizabeth Stone: It's really not a top down do A, then B, then C.

Elizabeth Stone：这确实不是自上而下先做 A，然后做 B，然后做 C。

Even in how we go through some of our planning processes or thinking about how we think about priorities, there is a lot of room for contribution across all levels of the team and that requires talent density.

即使在我们如何完成一些规划流程或考虑如何考虑优先事项方面，团队各个级别都有很大的贡献空间，这需要人才密度。

And then there's things like you have to have amazing people if you're not going to have really strict guardrails that would influence the consumer experience or business stakeholders experience.

如果你不打算有真正严格的护栏来影响消费者体验或业务利益相关者的体验，那么你就必须拥有出色的人才。

We do give people a lot of responsibility on those things.

我们确实在这些事情上赋予人们很多责任。

So I think the lack of process and prescriptiveness is all hinging on we've got amazing people who are smart, but even better have strong judgment.

因此，我认为流程和规范性的缺乏完全取决于我们拥有出色的人才，他们很聪明，但更好的是拥有强大的判断力。

Lenny: This is kind of what you always hear from people giving founders advice is, "Just hire amazing people, get out of their way and let them do their job," which is often not a successful experience.

莱尼：你经常从给创始人建议的人那里听到这样的话，“只要雇佣优秀的人，别挡着他们的路，让他们做自己的工作”，这通常不是一个成功的经历。

What are examples that either things that came out of this freedom, I don't know, products or features or ideas that came out of this or policies or processes you don't have that everyone else might have?

有哪些例子可以说明这种自由带来的东西（我不知道）、由此产生的产品、功能或想法，或者你没有而其他人可能有的政策或流程？

So I know there's no vacation time, there's unlimited vacation time, I assume.

所以我知道没有假期，我想假期时间是无限的。

Is that still a thing?

那还是一件事吗？

Unlimited vacation time?

休假时间无限？

Lenny: Okay, cool.

莱尼：好的，酷。

All right, great.

好吧，太好了。

And I know performance reviews, you talked about that.

我知道绩效评估，你也谈到了这一点。

So I guess in either direction, is there an example of something that came out of this freedom or some process that which surprised people that you don't have or a framework or system?

所以我想无论是哪个方向，是否有一个来自这种自由的例子，或者一些让人们感到惊讶的过程，或者一个框架或系统？

Elizabeth Stone: We've been able to deliver...

伊丽莎白·斯通：我们已经能够交付......

I'll speak to my own team around innovations in our content delivery network or innovations in encoding or innovations in discovery and personalization.

我将与我自己的团队讨论内容交付网络的创新、编码的创新或发现和个性化的创新。

We're not driven by some leader saying, "I think this is a priority." They were driven in many cases by individual contributors who had great ideas for innovation.

我们并不是被某些领导人所说的“我认为这是一个优先事项”所驱使。在许多情况下，它们是由具有伟大创新想法的个人贡献者推动的。

So a lot of the stuff that Netflix has succeeded in, came from creating space for people on the team.

因此，Netflix 的很多成功都来自于为团队成员创造空间。

So there's probably thousands of examples of product features and things like that that came out of creating this space.

因此，创建这个空间时可能会产生数千个产品功能和类似内容的示例。

And right now, the trick is finding the sweet spot so that we can operate efficiently at this type of scale without snuffing out some of that, what was kind of the core beauty of the culture.

现在，关键是找到最佳点，以便我们能够在这种规模下高效运营，而不会扼杀一些文化的核心之美。

Lenny: Maybe a last question around just the culture.

莱尼：也许最后一个问题只是关于文化。

We talked about candor a bit.

我们谈了一些坦诚的话题。

I'm just curious if there's an example that comes to mind of an example of candor that you recently saw or had to be the candid person that might be interesting to share where it's like, "Oh wow, that's what you mean when you say a culture of candor."

我只是很好奇，是否有一个你最近看到的坦率的例子，或者必须是一个坦率的人，可能会很有趣地分享，“哦，哇，这就是你所说的坦率文化时的意思。”

Elizabeth Stone: There's a couple things that come to mind.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我想到了几件事。

I am generally a transparent leader, meaning I share information freely and openly.

我通常是一个透明的领导者，这意味着我自由、公开地分享信息。

It's part of the culture to context, not control, which means part of my job is to make sure that people have the context they need to do their jobs well.

这是环境文化的一部分，而不是控制，这意味着我工作的一部分是确保人们拥有做好工作所需的环境。

And in practice, that means I take notes in leadership meetings and I share those notes with the whole organization.

在实践中，这意味着我在领导会议上做笔记，并与整个组织分享这些笔记。

And that is sometimes it includes candor around reflections on things that aren't going well or problems we need to solve.

有时它包括对进展不顺利的事情或我们需要解决的问题进行坦率的反思。

Sometimes it's just letting people know, "Here's what leadership's talking about so that they have a sense of what's top of mind." But it's a version of transparency that I feel strongly about, doesn't exist a lot of other places.

有时只是让人们知道，“这是领导层正在谈论的内容，以便他们了解最重要的事情。”但这是我强烈感受到的一种透明度，在很多其他地方并不存在。

I think it's a version of candor too in being able to share...

我认为能够分享也是一种坦诚……

I can't always share every detail of everything that we're talking about, but I do try to share things that probably push the boundary a little bit in the team, feeling like they understand what's happening across the company and what I'm thinking about.

我不能总是分享我们正在谈论的所有细节，但我确实尝试分享可能会在团队中稍微突破界限的事情，感觉他们了解整个公司正在发生的事情以及我在想什么。

Elizabeth Stone: And then there's a second example that comes to mind, which is, until two years ago, individual contributors didn't have levels at Netflix.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我想到的第二个例子是，直到两年前，个人贡献者在 Netflix 还没有级别。

So all engineers were just senior engineers, all data scientists were senior data scientists, and we did not have a leveling system.

所以所有工程师都只是高级工程师，所有数据科学家都是高级数据科学家，我们没有分级系统。

We introduced IC levels two years ago almost exactly.

我们在两年前几乎一模一样地推出了 IC 级别。

And it was a big, big, big shift because it was seen as something that was sort of sacred of it.

这是一个很大很大的转变，因为它被视为某种神圣的东西。

A lot of people came to Netflix because we didn't have it.

很多人来观看 Netflix 是因为我们没有它。

We didn't have process around promotions.

我们没有促销流程。

This is probably part of why we never had performance reviews, because promotions really weren't at play.

这可能是我们从未进行绩效评估的部分原因，因为晋升确实没有发挥作用。

And it gave people a sense of freedom of not having to worry about that type of structure.

它给人一种不必担心那种结构的自由感。

But when you get to a scale of an organization, we needed some type of scaffolding to say, "We want to talk about how we compose teams.

但当你达到一定规模的组织时，我们需要某种类型的脚手架来表达：“我们想讨论如何组建团队。

When do we need the person who has 30 years of experience?

我们什么时候需要有30年经验的人？

When do we want to have a new grad?" Because that's what the work requires.

我们什么时候要招收新毕业生？”因为这就是工作所需要的。

We didn't have a language for it.

我们没有语言来表达它。

Elizabeth Stone: So I introduced Levels a couple of years ago and we had quite a change rollercoaster is the only way I can describe how it went.

伊丽莎白·斯通：几年前我引入了关卡，我们发生了很大的变化，过山车是我可以描述它是如何进行的唯一方式。

Elizabeth Stone: Yeah, it was sort of like being the tumble dry machine for a few months, and so really talking through it with the team.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的，这有点像几个月的滚筒烘干机，因此与团队进行了真正的讨论。

That's just context and backdrop.

这只是背景和背景。

For an example of candor recently, which is, we had kind of a postmortem or a retro on how has it gone with IC levels.

举个最近坦率的例子，我们对 IC 水平的变化进行了事后分析或回顾。

So it's kind of like wells, not wells.

所以它有点像井，而不是井。

And I would normally think in a lot of cultures it would be like, "Well, we got past that change.

我通常会认为在很多文化中都会这样，“好吧，我们已经克服了这种变化。

We're living that change." Don't reflect on it.

我们正在经历这种变化。”不要反思它。

Because that kind of opened some of that early debate.

因为这引发了一些早期的争论。

And I felt differently about it.

我对此有不同的感受。

I think it's a good example of being candid about, this was a big change for us.

我认为这是一个坦诚的好例子，这对我们来说是一个很大的变化。

It hasn't all gone perfectly.

一切还没有那么完美。

There's a lot that we can do better in how we implement levels at Netflix.

在 Netflix 的关卡实现方式上，我们还有很多可以做得更好的地方。

And I would rather share that information than pretend it's all gone swimmingly and we achieved every objective.

我宁愿分享这些信息，也不愿假装一切进展顺利，我们实现了每一个目标。

So I think that I try to build examples like that because I do think that level of candor and reflection helps build the sense of community and trust across the team.

所以我认为我尝试建立这样的例子是因为我确实认为坦诚和反思的程度有助于在整个团队中建立社区意识和信任。

Lenny: That's an awesome example.

莱尼：这是一个很棒的例子。

Kind of along the lines of that, but also this category of freedom and responsibility, something Netflix innovated long ago, and I'm curious if this is still a thing, is this idea of Chaos Monkeys, which essentially are a program that runs on your infrastructure that just kills random processes and things and just to see what breaks and make sure things are stable when things actually start falling apart.

类似的，还有这种自由和责任的类别，Netflix 很久以前就创新了，我很好奇这是否仍然是一个东西，这就是 Chaos Monkeys 的想法，它本质上是一个在你的基础设施上运行的程序，它只是杀死随机的进程和事物，只是为了看看什么出了问题，并确保当事物真正开始崩溃时事物是稳定的。

Is Chaos Monkeys...

难道是混沌猴……

Was that what it's called?

是这么叫的吗？

And then is that still a thing?

那么这仍然是一件事吗？

Is there still some Chaos Monkeys running around the servers?

服务器周围是否还有一些混沌猴子在运行？

Elizabeth Stone: Not unbridled Chaos Monkeys.

伊丽莎白·斯通：不是肆无忌惮的混沌猴子。

No.

不。

Lenny: Okay.

莱尼：好的。

Contains chaos and niche.

包含混乱和利基。

Elizabeth Stone: Bur no, we carry too much responsibility, speaking of freedom and responsibility for the member experience to inject pain, though we do do a lot of experiments to test resilience, and that does probably mean injecting things that we're not quite sure whether A is better than B.

伊丽莎白·斯通：但是不，我们承担了太多的责任，谈到自由和责任，让会员体验注入痛苦，尽管我们确实做了很多实验来测试弹性，这可能意味着注入我们不太确定 A 是否比 B 更好的东西。

And so that happens across engineering systems really at scale.

因此，这种情况确实大规模地发生在工程系统中。

But it is not for pure chaos, it's for intentional learning and so we can avoid making bigger mistakes.

但这并不是为了纯粹的混乱，而是为了有意识的学习，这样我们就可以避免犯更大的错误。

And then as we go into new efforts like cloud games, we have a beta that's out now, Live would be another example.

然后，当我们开展云游戏等新工作时，我们现在已经推出了测试版，Live 将是另一个例子。

We do try to come up with intentionally low profile examples where we can test the bounds of our systems in a way that's unlikely to damage the member experience.

我们确实尝试提出故意低调的示例，以便我们可以以不太可能损害会员体验的方式测试我们系统的边界。

But that's less randomness, more by design.

但这并不是随机性，更多的是设计。

And so we're doing that in a few places that feels mostly good engineering practice so we can understand when it's really showtime and we're going to really test our systems, will they be able to perform like we want them to.

因此，我们在一些感觉良好的工程实践的地方这样做，这样我们就可以了解何时真正展示，我们将真正测试我们的系统，它们是否能够像我们希望的那样运行。

Lenny: So kind of along these lines of data, so data itself has always been at the heart of Netflix.

Lenny：沿着数据的思路，数据本身一直是 Netflix 的核心。

My understanding is the way the data team and the insights team is structured has been one of the reasons Netflix has been so successful.

我的理解是，数据团队和洞察团队的构建方式是 Netflix 如此成功的原因之一。

And that's the team you led before you moved into this new role.

这就是您担任新职位之前所领导的团队。

Can you just talk about how these teams are structured and why this structure is so effective?

您能否谈谈这些团队的结构以及为什么这种结构如此有效？

Elizabeth Stone: Yeah.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的。

I certainly like to think of it as being special.

我当然喜欢认为它很特别。

It's unusual.

这很不寻常。

I can explain why.

我可以解释为什么。

So the scale of company that Netflix now is very often data oriented teams are embedded in other parts of the business.

因此，Netflix 现在的公司规模往往是以数据为导向的团队嵌入到业务的其他部分。

So it could either be they're embedded in a business line like ads or games, or they are organized more functionally separating data engineers from data scientists, from analytics engineers, from consumer researchers.

因此，它们要么嵌入到广告或游戏等业务线中，要么在功能上将数据工程师与数据科学家、分析工程师和消费者研究人员分开。

We've resisted that and kept a centralized team that is both functionally diverse.

我们抵制了这一点，并保留了一个功能多样化的集中团队。

So across all those types of functions that I just described and works on nearly every area of the business from within the team.

因此，我刚刚描述的所有这些类型的职能都适用于团队内部几乎每个业务领域。

I sort of understand why a lot of companies move away from this because it really does require basically extraordinary partnership that we would have people working on data problems that don't report into the teams that are relying on them.

我有点理解为什么很多公司放弃了这一点，因为它确实需要基本上非凡的合作伙伴关系，我们会让人们处理数据问题，而不向依赖他们的团队报告。

Elizabeth Stone: But the benefit we get is we get to think about our functional expertise.

伊丽莎白·斯通：但我们得到的好处是我们可以考虑我们的职能专业知识。

So are we really world's best data engineers, world's best data scientists?

那么我们真的是世界上最好的数据工程师、世界上最好的数据科学家吗？

And how do we continue to be ever better from a functional and technical perspective?

从功能和技术角度来看，我们如何继续变得更好？

It gives people better career paths because there's more mobility across the teams.

它为人们提供了更好的职业道路，因为团队之间的流动性更大。

It feels like a team that has a functional expertise with a lot of different problems to solve.

感觉就像一个拥有职能专业知识、需要解决许多不同问题的团队。

And so I think it enables more cross-pollination of ideas in a way.

所以我认为它在某种程度上可以实现更多的思想交叉授粉。

Elizabeth Stone: It also allows us to be really objective.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这也让我们变得非常客观。

That is probably the most important thing, that our job is not to tell the story that someone wants to hear with the data or to solve the problem that someone thinks is most important.

这可能是最重要的事情，我们的工作不是用数据讲述某人想听的故事，也不是解决某人认为最重要的问题。

It's for us to have our own perspective about things.

我们对事物有自己的看法。

I think that that uplevels the whole organization because it means that we're able to be truth tellers or to be curious in a way that might not fit if we had a different organizational structure.

我认为这提高了整个组织的水平，因为这意味着我们能够成为说真话的人，或者以一种如果我们有不同的组织结构则可能不适合的方式保持好奇心。

We have to balance, that would be a good partner, deliver on the things we agreed were priorities, be flexible with how we're spending our time, but it gives us agency and responsibility beyond that.

我们必须保持平衡，这将是一个很好的合作伙伴，交付我们同意的优先事项，灵活地安排我们的时间，但它给了我们除此之外的代理权和责任。

And I feel like the team takes that very seriously.

我觉得团队非常重视这一点。

So I've seen examples of that in how we bring data to a lot of spaces, including how we partner with engineering on data-related topics or how we partner with content that I'm not sure we would've gotten to if not for having that kernel that's sort of a center of excellence around it.

因此，我看到过这样的例子：我们如何将数据带到很多空间，包括我们如何与数据相关主题的工程合作，或者我们如何与内容合作，如果没有那个围绕它的卓越中心的内核，我不确定我们是否会得到这些内容。

Lenny: And it's Data and Insights, that was the team that you ran.

莱尼：这是数据和洞察部门，这就是您管理的团队。

Insights, is that describing user research or what does that have function actually?

见解，这是描述用户研究还是实际上有什么作用？

Elizabeth Stone: So part of Data and Insights is a Consumer Insights team that includes a lot of different flavors of research really.

伊丽莎白·斯通：数据和洞察部门的一部分是消费者洞察团队，其中包括许多不同风格的研究。

So in some ways, consumer is even a misnomer because there's parts of the team that do internal research, for example, on tools and products for our studio productions.

因此，在某些方面，“消费者”甚至是一个用词不当，因为团队的某些部分正在进行内部研究，例如，对我们工作室制作的工具和产品进行研究。

So that's more of a user research-oriented versus consumer.

因此，这更多的是面向用户研究而不是面向消费者。

And then the parts of that team that are consumer-oriented do things all the way from content screenings to make titles the best version of themselves before they're on the service to more traditional UX research to think about how can we deliver the best title discovery experience or how can we think about things that improve accessibility?

然后，该团队中以消费者为导向的部分会做各种事情，从内容筛选到使游戏本身成为最好的版本，然后再提供服务，再到更传统的用户体验研究，思考我们如何才能提供最佳的游戏发现体验，或者我们如何考虑提高可访问性的事情？

And then that team has a global remit.

然后该团队的职责是全球性的。

So there's also teams that are more local or regional expertise in understanding consumer needs and entertainment.

因此，还有一些团队在了解消费者需求和娱乐方面更具本地或区域专业知识。

Elizabeth Stone: So Consumer Insights and a team, formerly known as still kind of known as a shorthand, data science and engineering, combined together to create data and insights probably about two years ago.

伊丽莎白·斯通：消费者洞察和一个团队（以前仍然被称为数据科学和工程的缩写）大约在两年前结合在一起创建了数据和见解。

That's another piece that's unusual.

这是另一件不寻常的作品。

It becomes truly a full-stack data and research expertise.

它成为真正的全栈数据和研究专业知识。

And so we could tackle a problem like, what's the right way to think about recommendations and how best to surface them in a way that combines attitudinal research, qualitative and quantitative with behavioral research on more of the data science, data engineering analytics side.

因此，我们可以解决这样的问题：思考建议的正确方法是什么，以及如何最好地以将态度研究、定性和定量与更多数据科学、数据工程分析方面的行为研究相结合的方式呈现它们。

Lenny: It's super cool because I think it's really rare that what people think of user research is within the data org.

Lenny：这非常酷，因为我认为人们对用户研究的看法很少发生在数据组织内部。

And I think that might be a solution to some of the backlash a lot of user research teams get where they're like, I don't know, what are you guys doing all this anecdotal evidence if it's under the same org.

我认为这可能是解决许多用户研究团队遇到的一些强烈反对的方法，他们会说，我不知道，如果在同一个组织下，你们在做什么这些轶事证据。

I feel like that leads to a lot more credibility and avoids this like, "Oh, data's telling me this thing.

我觉得这会带来更多的可信度，并避免这样的情况，“哦，数据告诉我这件事。

This user research team is telling me this thing.

这个用户研究团队正在告诉我这件事。

What should we do?"

我们该怎么办？”

Elizabeth Stone: Yeah, I mean, Consumer Insights is one of the newer teams for me; it wasn't in my background to lead a team like that and not in my individual training, but they are critical for making sure we keep a consumer orientation, a member orientation on things.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的，我的意思是，消费者洞察对我来说是较新的团队之一；我的背景不是领导这样的团队，也不是我的个人培训，但它们对于确保我们保持消费者导向、会员导向至关重要。

I have loved to watch the teams collaborate on problems because we talk about it as a superpower internally in combining those skill sets.

我喜欢看到团队合作解决问题，因为我们在内部将其视为结合这些技能的超级力量。

So I think the Consumer Insights team at Netflix has had a lot of credibility in a certain area of expertise and we took it to the next level by combining it with other functional expertise.

因此，我认为 Netflix 的消费者洞察团队在某个专业领域拥有很高的可信度，我们通过将其与其他职能专业知识相结合，将其提升到了一个新的水平。

So it's not required in every problem space.

所以并不是每个问题空间都需要它。

So we try not to overdo it and say we need to be collaborating everywhere because that just feels like the wrong expectation, but we try to make the most of it in spaces where we really benefit.

因此，我们尽量不要做得太过分，并说我们需要在各地进行合作，因为这感觉像是错误的期望，但我们试图在我们真正受益的领域充分利用它。

So yeah, it's worked out really well.

是的，效果非常好。

Lenny: Awesome.

莱尼：太棒了。

Okay.

好的。

I want to ask two more questions before we get to our very exciting lightning around.

在我们开始讨论令人兴奋的闪电之前，我想再问两个问题。

And they're both skills that have told me you're very good at.

这两项技能都告诉我你非常擅长。

One is that you are very intentional and thoughtful about staying close to individual teams and individuals within the company, even though you're higher and higher in the org.

一是你非常有意和深思熟虑地与公司内的各个团队和个人保持密切联系，即使你在组织中的职位越来越高。

I'm curious how you do that, how you actually practice this skill of staying really close to teams at the bottom of the ladder and individuals that are working on things on the ground basically?

我很好奇你是如何做到这一点的，你是如何实际练习这种与底层团队和基本上在实地工作的个人保持密切联系的技能的？

Elizabeth Stone: A lot of it is how I spend my time and fighting to preserve opportunities to connect with people.

伊丽莎白·斯通：很大程度上是我如何度过时间并努力保留与人交往的机会。

So examples would be, I still have biweekly office hours, people sign up for slots.

例子是，我仍然有每两周一次的办公时间，人们报名参加空档。

It can feel a little like speed dating for 20 minute slots, but I get to meet a whole bunch of people and hear about work, hear what's top of mind.

这感觉有点像 20 分钟的快速约会，但我可以见到很多人，了解工作情况，了解最重要的事情。

People book them out many months ahead and it's just an opportunity to stay in touch.

人们提前几个月就预订了，这只是一个保持联系的机会。

And then I do Ask Me Anything sessions with teams of different sizes depending on how intimate we want it to feel, but truly anything is fair game as a way to get to know me as a person, for me to hear questions, to try to be candid about what I can answer or can't answer.

然后，我会与不同规模的团队进行“有问必答”会议，具体取决于我们希望感觉有多亲密，但实际上，任何事情都是公平的游戏，可以作为了解我这个人的一种方式，让我听到问题，尝试坦诚地回答我可以回答或不能回答的问题。

And so those things have helped me maintain connection, but both of those examples are about making the time for it.

所以这些事情帮助我保持联系，但这两个例子都是为了腾出时间。

Elizabeth Stone: So what I have found as my role has changed is that it just wouldn't happen if I didn't make it a priority.

伊丽莎白·斯通：随着我的角色发生变化，我发现如果我不把它作为优先事项，这种情况就不会发生。

And then through those types of sessions, I do think I become or I hope to become more approachable so people know, "You can send me a Slack message, you can send me an email.

然后通过这些类型的会议，我确实认为我变得或者我希望变得更加平易近人，这样人们就知道，“你可以给我发一条 Slack 消息，你可以给我发一封电子邮件。

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm going to respond to you as quickly as I can because I want to hold myself to that bar." And so that builds a flow of communication between me and the team that I really value...

正如我之前提到的，我将尽快回复您，因为我希望自己遵守这个标准。”这样就在我和我真正重视的团队之间建立了沟通流程......

I don't think I would want to do my job if I didn't have those points of connection, so that helps too.

我认为如果没有这些联系点我就不会想做我的工作，所以这也有帮助。

Lenny: And you also send that email to everyone after every leadership meeting, so they're like, "Oh yeah, Elizabeth."

莱尼：每次领导会议后，你都会向每个人发送该电子邮件，所以他们会说，“哦，是的，伊丽莎白。”

Elizabeth Stone: Yeah, they hear from me.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的，他们收到了我的消息。

Yeah.

是的。

Lenny: Kind of related to this, so we have a mutual friend, that's how we got connected.

Lenny：与此有点相关，所以我们有一个共同的朋友，这就是我们联系的方式。

Ali Rao, she was a data scientist at Airbnb, now she's at Uber.

Ali Rao，她曾是 Airbnb 的数据科学家，现在在 Uber 工作。

She had a question that she wanted me to ask, and it's about how good you are at being present.

她有一个问题要我问，是关于你在场的表现如何。

So her question is something she's noticed about.

所以她的问题是她注意到的。

"Something I've noticed about her is how 100% present she is no matter who she talks to.

“我注意到她的一个特点是，无论与谁交谈，她都百分百在场。

Do you have any advice for people to get better at this?

您对人们在这方面做得更好有什么建议吗？

Because it's so hard in the day of email and iPhones and Slack." Her questions like, "When does she respond to stuff if not sometimes in meetings?"

因为在电子邮件、iPhone 和 Slack 的时代，这太难了。”她的问题是，“如果有时在会议上不回复，她什么时候回复？”

Elizabeth Stone: I actually think I'm the most present when I'm having conversations like this one.

伊丽莎白·斯通：实际上，我认为当我进行这样的对话时，我是最专注的。

I do preserve a lot of time to have one-on-one conversations where I'm genuinely curious about how someone's doing, how I can help them, what they're excited about that's authentic.

我确实会留出很多时间进行一对一的对话，我真的很好奇某人在做什么，我如何帮助他们，他们对什么是真实的感到兴奋。

And so while my EA would probably cringe at saying I like to spend time doing a lot of those one-on-ones, it is relatively easier for me to say the human connection is part of what I enjoy about this.

因此，虽然我的 EA 可能会不好意思说我喜欢花时间进行大量的一对一交流，但对我来说，相对更容易说人际关系是我喜欢这样做的一部分。

I think that's true for a lot of people in what we get out of work and life, but I try to live that in those meetings.

我认为对于很多人来说，我们从工作和生活中得到的都是如此，但我试图在这些会议中体现这一点。

I'm probably not as good when we're talking about meetings of 30 people and I'm multitasking, so I'll admit to doing that for sure.

当我们谈论 30 人的会议时，我可能不太擅长，而且我要同时处理多项任务，所以我承认我确实会这样做。

But I think the one-on-one conversations I treat as being pretty sacred.

但我认为一对一的谈话是非常神圣的。

Elizabeth Stone: One of the things I've noticed that helps me continue to invest in that and maybe is helpful for other people is some of my greatest friends and connections, including people like Ali, are people I met along the way professionally.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我注意到的一件事可以帮助我继续投资，也许对其他人也有帮助，那就是我一些最好的朋友和人脉，包括像阿里这样的人，都是我在职业生涯中遇到的人。

So I worked very closely with Ally's husband, Keith Henwood, at multiple places, both Analysis Group and at Lyft.

因此，我在 Analysis Group 和 Lyft 等多个地方与艾莉的丈夫基思·亨伍德 (Keith Henwood) 密切合作。

And that means that it's created opportunities and it's been points of connection.

这意味着它创造了机会并且成为了联系点。

And so you get back what you give basically.

所以你基本上会得到你所付出的东西。

Elizabeth Stone: There are people in my life who are part of my life because I worked with them or because I crossed paths.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我生命中有些人是我生活的一部分，因为我和他们一起工作过，或者因为我有过交集。

And I like to think that if I can make a positive mark on them, it'll come back and be at some point too.

我喜欢认为，如果我能给他们留下积极的印象，它也会在某个时候回来。

So I think to distill that is that I truly enjoy it.

所以我认为提炼出它是我真正喜欢的。

It's what I get out of especially work.

这是我从特别工作中得到的。

And then it's my community.

然后是我的社区。

And that's served me really well over time.

随着时间的推移，这对我很有帮助。

And so I have given people advice of, "This is a small community, think about what you're investing in other people because that will matter down the line for yourself too" and I try to live that myself.

所以我给人们的建议是，“这是一个小社区，想想你在其他人身上投资了什么，因为这对你自己也很重要”，我自己也努力实践这一点。

Lenny: Yeah, that's such good advice.

莱尼：是的，这是很好的建议。

There's kind of two things that come to mind there.

我想到了两件事。

One is treat people the way you want to be treated.

一是你愿意人怎样待你，你也要怎样待人。

Someone once said that maybe.

有人曾经说过，也许吧。

And I think you've come back to this a couple times, this idea of just pay attention to what gives you energy and that you're good at and just almost double down on that.

我想你已经回到这个话题好几次了，这个想法就是关注那些给你能量的东西，以及你擅长的东西，并且几乎要加倍努力。

Just make that more and more of a superpower.

只是让它越来越成为一个超级大国。

Elizabeth Stone: Yeah, that last part resonates.

伊丽莎白·斯通：是的，最后一部分引起了共鸣。

It's been a big part of my personal and professional practice to reflect on how I'm feeling, what I'm excited about, what I'm enjoying.

反思我的感受、我对什么感到兴奋、我喜欢什么，是我个人和职业实践的重要组成部分。

I do think it helps me be more grounded, which maybe helps me be more present or helps me be a better manager or leader.

我确实认为这可以帮助我更加脚踏实地，这也许可以帮助我更加活在当下，或者帮助我成为一名更好的经理或领导者。

That might be part of the secret sauce too, but it is part of my practice.

这也可能是秘密武器的一部分，但它是我实践的一部分。

Lenny: I can't help but ask, is this an actual practice?

Lenny：我忍不住想问，这是实际的做法吗？

Do you do this on a regular basis or is this just something you think about like, "I should reflect back"?

您是否定期这样做，或者这只是您的想法，例如“我应该反思”？

Elizabeth Stone: I wish I was so advanced to say I meditate and I create all this structure.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我希望我能先进到可以说我冥想并创造了所有这些结构。

It's more that I think I mentioned maybe I'm an introvert, so I do spend some time alone.

我想我提到的更多的是，也许我是一个内向的人，所以我确实花了一些时间独处。

That's how I recharge.

这就是我充电的方式。

And early mornings, especially people who know me sometimes are horrified at the time of day I send emails, but early mornings are a quiet time for me where I do try to have a daily check-in of just how are things going, why am I feeling anxious, why am I feeling excited.

清晨，尤其是认识我的人有时会对我发送电子邮件的时间感到恐惧，但清晨对我来说是一个安静的时间，我每天都会尝试检查事情进展如何，为什么我感到焦虑，为什么我感到兴奋。

And it's kind of a muscle you build.

这是你锻炼的肌肉。

So while I don't write in a journal, I don't have a meditation practice, I do have a time of day when I try to keep it protected from other things so that I can think for a second.

因此，虽然我不写日记，也没有进行冥想练习，但我确实会在一天中的某个时间尝试使其免受其他事物的影响，以便我可以思考一会儿。

Lenny: What I think about there is Jeff Bezos has this approach in the morning.

莱尼：我认为杰夫·贝佐斯早上就采用了这种方法。

He just calls, he putters around.

他只是打电话，到处闲逛。

He has no meetings until I think 10:10 or something.

我认为直到 10 点 10 分左右他才会开会。

He just wants to putter around, read the newspaper, see what's going on in email, which I'm trying to do.

他只是想闲逛，看看报纸，看看电子邮件里发生了什么，这也是我正在努力做的。

I really like that.

我真的很喜欢这样。

That feels really good.

那种感觉真的很好。

I'm just going to putter around.

我只是去闲逛。

I have no responsibilities in the morning.

早上我没有任何责任。

Elizabeth Stone: I've never heard that.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我从来没有听说过。

I'm going to adopt that language.

我将采用这种语言。

Lenny: I'm just puttering and puttering.

莱尼：我只是喋喋不休。

Elizabeth, is there anything else you wanted to touch on or leave listeners with before we get to our very exciting lightning round?

伊丽莎白，在我们进入激动人心的闪电回合之前，您还有什么想谈或留给听众的吗？

Elizabeth Stone: No, I'm ready for the exciting lightning round.

伊丽莎白·斯通：不，我已经准备好迎接激动人心的闪电回合了。

Lenny: Well, with that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round.

莱尼：好了，我们已经进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。

First question, what are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people?

第一个问题，您向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？

Elizabeth Stone: It's probably a little recency bias, but I've been recommending What I Talk About When I Talk About Running by Murakami, which talks about introspection about the similarities between running and writing as sort of flow states and very meditative things.

伊丽莎白·斯通：这可能有点新近偏见，但我一直推荐村上隆的《当我谈论跑步时我谈论什么》，其中谈到了对跑步和写作之间相似性的内省，作为一种心流状态和非常冥想的事情。

So I had read some of his fiction books and the autobiographical reflection on these types of either professions or hobbies I think is very insightful.

所以我读过他的一些小说，以及对这些类型的职业或爱好的自传反思，我认为非常有见地。

So that's one.

这就是其中之一。

And then one of my longtime favorite books is A Fine Balance by Mistry.

我长期以来最喜欢的书之一是 Mistry 的《A Fine Balance》。

And that is just a great story of human complexity and challenge and relationships.

这就是一个关于人类复杂性、挑战和关系的伟大故事。

So I'm drawn to both books and TV and film that are about humans.

所以我对有关人类的书籍、电视和电影很感兴趣。

Lenny: Speaking of TV and film, this is maybe a high stakes question for someone that works in Netflix, do you have a favorite recent movie or TV show?

Lenny：说到电视和电影，这对于在 Netflix 工作的人来说可能是一个高风险的问题，你最近有最喜欢的电影或电视节目吗？

Elizabeth Stone: I'm not going to name all Netflix.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我不会说出所有 Netflix 的名称。

That feels too much like an advertisement.

感觉太像广告了。

Film, Triangle of Sadness is phenomenal if you haven't seen it.

如果您还没有看过电影《悲伤三角》，那它一定是非凡的。

And then I'll go Netflix for TV, Beef was I thought hysterical.

然后我会去Netflix看电视，《Beef》我觉得歇斯底里。

I'm an Ali Wong fan, but also just a pretty unique storyline.

我是黄阿丽的粉丝，但也只是一个非常独特的故事情节。

Lenny: And I think they just won a bunch of Emmys.

莱尼：我认为他们刚刚赢得了很多艾美奖。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

Good picks.

不错的选择。

Next question.

下一个问题。

Do you have a favorite interview question that you like to ask candidates that you are interviewing?

您有最喜欢问正在面试的候选人的面试问题吗？

Elizabeth Stone: High talent density.

伊丽莎白·斯通：人才密度高。

I'm usually looking for the person who would be better in my role than I am in my role.

我通常会寻找比我更适合我的角色的人。

So I often ask people what would their priorities be, what would they do differently if they had my job.

所以我经常问人们他们的优先事项是什么，如果他们有我的工作，他们会采取什么不同的做法。

Lenny: Next question, do you have a favorite product that you recently discovered that you really like?

Lenny：下一个问题，你有没有最近发现自己真正喜欢的最喜欢的产品？

Elizabeth Stone: So while I carry the CTO title, I live a pretty analog life.

Elizabeth Stone：虽然我担任首席技术官，但我的生活却相当模拟。

So my most recent product is a Fellow pour-over coffee maker, which is actually part of my morning ritual, which I'll now call puttering around, where I take great lengths in my coffee-making process because I find it calming.

所以我最近的产品是 Fellow 手冲咖啡机，这实际上是我早晨例行公事的一部分，我现在将其称为闲逛，我在咖啡制作过程中花费了大量时间，因为我发现它能让人平静。

And then it's not a recent find, but I have to shout out that my Peloton is probably the favorite product I own.

这并不是最近才发现的，但我必须大声说我的 Peloton 可能是我最喜欢的产品。

Elizabeth Stone: Bike.

伊丽莎白·斯通：自行车。

I'm a recovering outdoor cyclist, so it's also kind of questionable if I can even admit to this, but that's why I would admit to I love the Peloton despite being ideally an outdoor cyclist.

我是一名正在康复的户外自行车手，所以我是否能承认这一点也有点值得怀疑，但这就是为什么我承认我喜欢 Peloton，尽管我是一名理想的户外自行车手。

Lenny: I have questions about your cycling, but before that question, do you have a favorite life motto that you often come back to or share with friends or family that you find useful either in work or in life?

莱尼：我对你的骑行有疑问，但在这个问题之前，你有没有最喜欢的人生格言，你经常回顾或与朋友或家人分享，你认为它在工作或生活中都很有用？

Elizabeth Stone: My mom said something to me that has stuck with me.

伊丽莎白·斯通：我妈妈对我说了一些让我印象深刻的话。

I don't know if I live it very well, but the phrase was, "Something good happens every day." And the reason she said it was because she was encouraging me to be more mindful about enjoying the small things in the day-to-day rather than letting myself get caught up in the busyness.

我不知道我是否过得很好，但那句话是“每天都会有好事发生”。她之所以这么说，是因为她鼓励我更加注意享受日常生活中的小事，而不是让自己陷入忙碌之中。

Lenny: Beautiful.

莱尼：美丽。

Final question.

最后一个问题。

You're a big biker and triathlete.

你是一位伟大的自行车手和铁人三项运动员。

I am curious what that sport and time has given you in your career or in life.

我很好奇这项运动和时间给你的职业生涯或生活带来了什么。

What benefits have you found from spending so much time and energy, running, biking, being an athlete?

花费如此多的时间和精力跑步、骑自行车、成为一名运动员，你发现了什么好处？

Elizabeth Stone: Certainly by mental resilience.

伊丽莎白·斯通：当然是心理弹性。

So while those sound like physical strength, I've found especially endurance sports are much more mental and how you go through the highs and lows and sustain and then coming back from challenge.

因此，虽然这些听起来像是体力，但我发现特别是耐力运动更需要精神力量，以及你如何经历高潮和低谷并维持，然后从挑战中恢复过来。

So those sports have had their highs and lows and from the lows I've really learned how to recover and bounce back.

所以这些运动都有高潮和低谷，从低谷中我真正学会了如何恢复和反弹。

So those feel like universally applicable skills.

所以这些感觉像是普遍适用的技能。

Lenny: You have such an interesting mix of athleticism and then Netflix, what a good balance for life.

莱尼：你把运动能力和 Netflix 结合在一起，真是太有趣了，生活的平衡真是太好了。

This is going to give me permission to go watch Netflix recording this on Friday afternoon.

这将允许我在周五下午观看 Netflix 录制的视频。

Elizabeth, you're awesome.

伊丽莎白，你太棒了。

Thank you so much for being here.

非常感谢您来到这里。

Two final questions.

最后两个问题。

Where can folks find you online if they want to reach out and maybe follow up on things?

如果人们想要联系并跟进事情，可以在哪里找到您？

And how can listeners be useful to you?

听众如何对你有用？

Elizabeth Stone: You can always find me on LinkedIn, so definitely reach out or ping me if you have questions or comments.

Elizabeth Stone：您随时可以在 LinkedIn 上找到我，因此如果您有疑问或意见，请务必联系我或联系我。

I think the way the listeners can be useful to me is being maybe curious about how they can show up even better in their lives now that we've done this reflection on Netflix culture and how we show up for other people.

我认为听众对我有用的方式可能是好奇他们如何才能在生活中表现得更好，既然我们已经对 Netflix 文化以及我们如何向其他人展示自己进行了反思。

I would like to ask listeners to pay that forward to people that they're working with and how they show up for them.

我想请听众将这一点传递给与他们一起工作的人以及他们如何为他们服务。

Lenny: Amazing.

莱尼：太棒了。

I love that.

我喜欢那个。

If you end up doing this and you're listening, maybe leave a comment on YouTube or in Substack with something that you haven't covered about yourself.

如果你最终这样做了并且你正在倾听，也许可以在 YouTube 或 Substack 中留下一些你没有涉及到的关于你自己的评论。

Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here.

伊丽莎白，非常感谢你来到这里。

Elizabeth Stone: Thank you, Lenny.

伊丽莎白·斯通：谢谢你，莱尼。

I hope you have a great weekend.

我希望你周末愉快。

Same.

相同的。

Bye everyone.: Thank you so much for listening.

大家再见：非常感谢您的聆听。

If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。

Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.

另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。

You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.

您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。

See you in the next episode.

下一集见。