Building a culture of excellence | David Singleton (CTO of Stripe)

David Singleton: The way we think about product development at Stripe, it really is to find the correct set of early users to kind of co-create the product with.

David Singleton：我们在 Stripe 考虑产品开发的方式，实际上是找到正确的早期用户来共同创建产品。

Maybe the best example of that is Stripe billing.

也许最好的例子就是 Stripe 计费。

When we got to starting the Stripe billing product, we realized that there were a number of our existing users, these were companies like Figma and Slack, were already using Stripe for payments, but had these subscriptions business models.

当我们开始启动 Stripe 计费产品时，我们意识到我们有许多现有用户，比如 Figma 和 Slack 等公司，已经在使用 Stripe 进行支付，但拥有这些订阅业务模式。

And we figured that there were going to be many more of these kind of companies into the future.

我们认为未来将会有更多此类公司。

And we could see that they were really kind of pushing the boundaries of what was possible here.

我们可以看到他们确实在突破这里可能的界限。

David Singleton: So we decided to co-create the product with them.

David Singleton：所以我们决定与他们共同开发该产品。

So we had shared Slack channels, we'd actually show them product on a very regular basis, get their feedback on it.

所以我们共享了 Slack 频道，我们实际上会定期向他们展示产品，获取他们的反馈。

And only when that original kind of Alpha group was super, super happy with the product did we then think it might be ready to go to a broader audience.

只有当最初的 Alpha 团队对产品非常非常满意时，我们才会认为它可能已经准备好面向更广泛的受众。

So that is just how we build product at Stripe.

这就是我们在 Stripe 构建产品的方式。

And that means that every engineer building product at Stripe really has many of the kind of attributes and will exercise many of the attributes that'll you often find in PMs in other companies.

这意味着在 Stripe 构建产品的每位工程师确实都具有许多此类属性，并且会运用您在其他公司的 PM 中经常看到的许多属性。

Lenny: Welcome to Lenny's podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard experiences building and growing today's most successful product.

Lenny：欢迎来到 Lenny 的播客，我在其中采访了世界一流的产品领导者和增长专家，从他们构建和发展当今最成功产品的艰辛经验中学习。

Today my guest is David Singleton.

今天我的嘉宾是大卫·辛格尔顿。

David is chief technology officer at Stripe where he's responsible for guiding its engineering and design teams, a role he's had for over five years.

David 是 Stripe 的首席技术官，负责指导其工程和设计团队，他担任该职位已超过五年。

Prior to Stripe, David was VP of engineering at Google where he spent over a decade.

在加入 Stripe 之前，David 曾在 Google 担任工程副总裁十多年。

And in hearing from David, you'll quickly be able to tell how passionate he is about the craft of building great products and building great teams.

在听到 David 的来信后，您很快就能看出他对打造优秀产品和打造优秀团队的工艺充满热情。

We dig into Stripe's unique approach to hiring, how they built a very product oriented engineering team, which allowed them to hold off on hiring their first product manager for many, many years, how they operationalize their operating principle of be meticulous in your craft, including a number of fascinating internal processes like engineer occasions, walking the store and something called friction logging.

我们深入探讨了 Stripe 独特的招聘方式，他们如何建立了一支以产品为导向的工程团队，这使得他们能够在很多年里推迟聘用第一位产品经理，他们如何实施“一丝不苟”的运营原则，包括许多令人着迷的内部流程，例如工程师活动、在商店里走动以及所谓的摩擦记录。

Lenny: David also shares what it takes to run an engineering culture with the uptime and scale requirements of Stripe, plus how AI is already impacting how they work and lessons around leadership management and planning.

Lenny：David 还分享了如何运行工程文化以及 Stripe 的正常运行时间和规模要求，以及人工智能如何影响他们的工作方式以及领导力管理和规划方面的经验教训。

I'm so thankful David carved out time to come on the podcast and I know that you'll learn something valuable from it.

我非常感谢大卫抽出时间来参加播客，我知道你会从中学到一些有价值的东西。

With that, I bring you David Singleton after a short word from our sponsors.

在我们的赞助商简短致辞后，我为您带来了大卫·辛格尔顿 (David Singleton)。

Lenny: This episode is brought to you by Mixpanel offering powerful self-serve product analytics.

Lenny：本集由 Mixpanel 为您带来，提供强大的自助产品分析功能。

If you listen to this podcast, you know that it's really hard to build great product without making compromises.

如果您收听此播客，您就会知道在不做出妥协的情况下构建出色的产品确实很难。

And when it comes to using data, a lot of teams think that they only have two choices.

当谈到使用数据时，很多团队认为他们只有两个选择。

Make quick decisions based on gut feelings or make data driven decisions at a snail's pace.

根据直觉快速做出决策，或以蜗牛般的速度做出数据驱动的决策。

But that's a false choice.

但这是一个错误的选择。

You shouldn't have to compromise on speed to get product answers that you can trust.

您无需牺牲速度即可获得值得信赖的产品答案。

With Mixpanel, there are no trade-offs.

使用 Mixpanel，无需权衡。

Get deep insights at the speed of thought at a fair price that scales as you grow.

以合理的价格以思考的速度获得深入的见解，并随着您的成长而扩展。

Mixpanel builds powerful and intuitive product analytics that everyone can trust, use and afford.

Mixpanel 构建了强大而直观的产品分析，每个人都可以信任、使用和负担得起。

Explore plans for teams of every size and see what Mixpanel can do for you and mixpanel.com.

探索适合各种规模团队的计划，看看 Mixpanel 可以为您和 mixpanel.com 做些什么。

And while you're at it, they're hiring.

当你在做的时候，他们正在招聘。

Check out mixpanel.com to learn more.

请访问 mixpanel.com 了解更多信息。

Lenny: This episode is brought to you by Eppo.

Lenny：这一集是 Eppo 为您带来的。

Eppo's the next generation AB testing platform built by Airbnb alums for modern growth teams, companies like DraftKings, Zapier ClickUp, Twitch and Cameo rely on Eppo to power their experiments.

Eppo 是 Airbnb 校友为现代增长团队打造的下一代 AB 测试平台，DraftKings、Zapier ClickUp、Twitch 和 Cameo 等公司都依靠 Eppo 来支持他们的实验。

Wherever you work, running experiments is increasingly essential, but there are no commercial tools that integrate with a modern grow team stack.

无论您在哪里工作，运行实验都变得越来越重要，但是没有可以与现代种植团队堆栈集成的商业工具。

This leads to waste of time building internal tools or trying to run your own experiments through a clunky marketing tool.

这会导致浪费时间构建内部工具或尝试通过笨重的营销工具进行自己的实验。

Lenny: When I was at Airbnb, one of the things that I loved most about working there was our experimentation platform where I was able to slice and dice data by device types, country, user stage.

Lenny：当我在 Airbnb 工作时，我最喜欢在那里工作的事情之一就是我们的实验平台，我可以在其中按设备类型、国家/地区、用户阶段对数据进行切片和切块。

Eppo does all that and more delivering results quickly, avoiding annoying prolonged analytics cycles and helping you easily get to the root cause of any issue you discover.

Eppo 可以完成所有这些任务，并快速提供结果，避免恼人的长时间分析周期，并帮助您轻松找到所发现问题的根本原因。

Eppo lets you go beyond basic, click through metrics and instead use your North Star metrics like activation, retention, subscription and payments.

Eppo 让您超越基本的点击指标，而是使用您的北极星指标，例如激活、保留、订阅和付款。

Eppo supports tests on front end, on the backend, email marketing, even machine learning claims.

Eppo 支持前端、后端、电子邮件营销、甚至机器学习声明的测试。

Check out Eppo at geteppo.com, that's geteppo.com and 10 X your experiment velocity.

在 geteppo.com 上查看 Eppo，这是 geteppo.com，它是您实验速度的 10 倍。

David, welcome to the podcast.

大卫，欢迎来到播客。

David Singleton: Thanks for having me, Lenny.

大卫·辛格尔顿：谢谢你邀请我，莱尼。

It's great to be here.

很高兴来到这里。

Lenny: I know Stripes Sessions is coming around the corner in later next week and I imagine it's a pretty hectic time for you.

Lenny：我知道 Stripes Sessions 将于下周晚些时候举行，我想这对你来说是一个非常忙碌的时间。

And so I just want to extra appreciate you making time for this in the middle of all that.

所以我想特别感谢你在这一切中间抽出时间来做这件事。

David Singleton: Thank you.

大卫·辛格尔顿：谢谢。

Well, it's a pleasure.

嗯，很高兴。

It's a lot of fun.

这很有趣。

Stripe Sessions is our annual user conference, so we get together a bunch of folks from businesses building on Stripe and it's a great opportunity both to share what we've been up to over the last year, but also just learned a lot from them about what they would like to see us doing.

Stripe Sessions 是我们的年度用户会议，因此我们聚集了来自 Stripe 企业的一群人，这是一个很好的机会，既可以分享我们在过去一年中所做的事情，也可以从他们那里了解到很多关于他们希望看到我们做什么的事情。

And so I find it very energizing.

所以我觉得它非常有活力。

It is of course a lot of work to put it together.

当然，要将其整合在一起需要做很多工作。

In particular, I'm spending a bunch of time getting some demos together today, which I love building demos so, but it's a real pleasure to join you today.

特别是，我今天花了很多时间来收集一些演示，我非常喜欢构建演示，但今天很高兴加入你们。

Lenny: So as I was preparing for this conversation, I kind of realized that the Stripe alumni are just killing it on this podcast, both in terms of the number of people that have come from Stripe and also just in terms of the quality and the popularity of some of the episodes.

Lenny：当我准备这次谈话时，我意识到 Stripe 校友在这个播客上表现得非常出色，无论是从来自 Stripe 的人数，还是从某些剧集的质量和受欢迎程度来看。

So folks like Claire Hughes Johnson, and Shreyas Doshi and Eeke.

像 Claire Hughes Johnson、Shreyas Doshi 和 Eeke 这样的人。

And my first question essentially, what is it that you all do that allows you to attract hire, close, keep people of that caliber?

我的第一个问题本质上是，你们都做了什么才能吸引人才、关闭、留住有能力的人才？

And I'm not going to accept just we keep a high bar or we just spend a lot of time on hiring.

我不会接受只是我们保持高标准或者我们只是花很多时间在招聘上。

I'm curious just like what is it that you all do that other companies don't do that's maybe unique to the way Stripe finds and hires?

我很好奇，有什么是你们都做而其他公司不做的，这可能是 Stripe 寻找和招聘的独特方式？

David Singleton: Well, yeah, I'd love to tell you more about how we find and hire people.

大卫·辛格尔顿：嗯，是的，我很乐意告诉您更多有关我们如何寻找和雇用人才的信息。

I think it makes sense to kind of zoom out for a second because it's material here.

我认为稍微缩小一下是有道理的，因为它在这里很重要。

So think about what Stripe is doing.

所以想想 Stripe 正在做什么。

Our core thesis is that the internet economy is going to be much bigger and more important in the future than it is today.

我们的核心论点是，未来的互联网经济将比现在规模更大、更重要。

And that's certainly played out over the last 10 years.

这在过去 10 年里确实发生过。

And so we are really a business full of product minded builders who are seeking to make it easier for businesses to get started and to operate against that backdrop.

因此，我们确实是一家充满产品意识的建设者的企业，他们正在寻求让企业更容易在这种背景下起步和运营。

And so we got started building a credit card payments API.

因此我们开始构建信用卡支付 API。

Before Stripe came along, accepting credit card payments online was way too hard.

在 Stripe 出现之前，在线接受信用卡付款太困难了。

You had to go talk to your bank, you had to maybe sign a contract with Visa, MasterCard.

你必须去和你的银行谈谈，你可能必须与维萨卡、万事达卡签订合同。

You then had to kind of string together all this very complicated infrastructure and it then put a bunch of kind of restrictions and requirements on the business.

然后，您必须将所有这些非常复杂的基础设施串在一起，然后对业务提出一系列限制和要求。

David Singleton: And John and Patrick are our co-founders at a previous business and they tell this funny story actually, which is while they were building that company, they assumed, it was an internet company, they assumed the hardest thing was going to be putting together hardware in a data center.

大卫·辛格尔顿：约翰和帕特里克是我们之前一家公司的联合创始人，他们实际上讲述了这个有趣的故事，当他们建立那家公司时，他们认为这是一家互联网公司，他们认为最困难的事情是在数据中心组装硬件。

But it turned out because there were services like AWS around by then, that that was actually quite easy.

但事实证明，因为当时已经有了像 AWS 这样的服务，这实际上很容易。

However, when it came to accepting payments in that business, it was just as hard as they had expected building hardware to be.

然而，当涉及到在该业务中接受付款时，这就像他们预期的构建硬件一样困难。

They had to actually deploy some physical hardware, they had to do a whole bunch of these partnerships and it was very difficult, especially as an upstart, folks that didn't have any reputation yet to kind of be taken seriously and be able to correct into that.

他们必须实际部署一些物理硬件，他们必须建立一大堆这样的合作伙伴关系，这非常困难，特别是作为一个新贵，那些还没有任何声誉但尚未被认真对待并能够纠正这一点的人。

And so that's kind of the inspiration behind Stripe.

这就是 Stripe 背后的灵感。

So we started out solving a really kind of important and profound problem for these businesses getting started and scaling and obviously taking a very developer-centric approach to that in the early days.

因此，我们开始为这些企业的启动和扩展解决一个非常重要且深刻的问题，并且显然在早期采取了一种以开发人员为中心的方法。

David Singleton: I think what's exciting to know about and important to know about next is as we've scaled, we really kind of figure out what to do based on paying really close attention to our users.

David Singleton：我认为接下来令人兴奋和重要的是，随着我们规模的扩大，我们确实在密切关注用户的基础上弄清楚了该做什么。

Those are the businesses building on Stripe.

这些是在 Stripe 上建立的业务。

What are they getting out of the products as they are today and what are the problems adjacent to the ones that we're already solving that they have to put a lot of their own energy into but really feel like they shouldn't and they'd like us to help.

他们从今天的产品中得到了什么？与我们已经解决的问题相邻的问题是什么，他们必须投入大量自己的精力，但实际上他们不应该投入，他们希望我们提供帮助。

And when we find that confluence of kind of need and then adjacency to what we're already doing, that's usually our invitation to go and build the next layer of our economic infrastructure.

当我们发现某种需求与我们已经在做的事情相结合时，通常会邀请我们去建设下一层经济基础设施。

So we think about what we do today is building economic infrastructure for the internet and beyond.

因此，我们认为我们今天所做的就是为互联网及其他领域建设经济基础设施。

David Singleton: So to bring this back to how do we attract the right talent and why does this matter?

大卫·辛格尔顿：那么，让我们回到如何吸引合适的人才以及为什么这很重要？

First of all, a lot of people, most people I think come to Stripe because they see that there is this great opportunity to help businesses at scale.

首先，很多人，我认为大多数人来到 Stripe 是因为他们看到了这个大规模帮助企业的绝佳机会。

So it really is about taking part in a mission that matters and are really motivated by that idea that we spend a lot of time with our users, the folks that actually need our help and are guided by them.

因此，这确实是关于参与一项重要的使命，并且真正受到这样的想法的激励：我们花了很多时间与我们的用户，那些真正需要我们帮助并受到他们指导的人在一起。

And that mindset I think attracts a certain kind of person who wants to take a lot of agency, wants to understand the problems deeply and come up with their own ideas about how to solve for them.

我认为这种心态吸引了某种人，他们想要承担更多的责任，想要深入了解问题并提出自己的解决方案。

Because we're building infrastructure, it's also our approach that we really do think that we can do the best work kind of behind the scenes.

因为我们正在建设基础设施，所以我们确实认为我们可以在幕后做最好的工作。

We don't have to be out having the splashy launch, but hopefully all of our users can and we are quietly working behind the scenes to make their businesses better and more effective over time.

我们不必进行引人注目的发布，但希望我们所有的用户都可以，而且我们正在幕后默默地工作，随着时间的推移，让他们的业务变得更好、更有效。

David Singleton: And I think that attracts folks with a certain kind of mindset, which is the interest and kind of tenacity to dig into difficult problems that may not be obvious and obviously kind of attractive to everyone in the world then really plug away at them until we've made a tremendous amount of progress.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我认为这吸引了具有某种心态的人，这种心态是挖掘难题的兴趣和坚韧，这些难题可能并不明显，但显然对世界上每个人都有吸引力，然后真正埋头苦干，直到我们取得巨大进展。

And so it attracts folks that are long-term thinkers, that care about building and also actually want to work very collaboratively together.

因此，它吸引了那些有长远思考者、关心建设并且实际上希望紧密合作的人们。

So when I think about what makes Stripe different to other companies, it really is this singularity of purpose.

因此，当我思考 Stripe 与其他公司的不同之处时，我发现确实是这种目标的单一性。

Our mission is increasing the GDP of the internet and building this financial infrastructure to do that and a tremendous amount of teamwork and collaboration to get that done.

我们的使命是增加互联网的 GDP 并建立金融基础设施来实现这一目标，并通过大量的团队合作和协作来实现这一目标。

And so that attracts a certain kind of person.

所以这会吸引某种类型的人。

When we think about finding those people, we don't hide any of that.

当我们考虑寻找这些人时，我们不会隐瞒任何事情。

You have to care about that in order to, I think be excited about working at Stripe.

我认为你必须关心这一点，才能对在 Stripe 工作感到兴奋。

David Singleton: And so we work very hard to make it very clearer as we're bringing people in that that's what this is about.

大卫·辛格尔顿：因此，我们非常努力地使其变得更加清晰，因为我们正在让人们了解这就是这件事的意义。

And to that end, we're often very patient when we're hiring.

为此，我们在招聘时通常非常耐心。

So especially for critical roles, leadership hiring in particular, we're happy to take our time and meet tens or hundreds of people.

因此，特别是对于关键职位，特别是领导层招聘，我们很乐意花时间与数十或数百人会面。

And then in particular, sometimes we'll meet someone that we think is a really good fit for a given role, but they're not available right now.

特别是，有时我们会遇到我们认为非常适合特定角色的人，但他们现在没有空。

And then we'll be patient.

然后我们会耐心等待。

We'll keep building the personal relationship with them and oftentimes the moment in time comes when it makes sense for them to join.

我们将继续与他们建立个人关系，通常，他们的加入有意义的时刻就会到来。

And in order to pull that off, it's also the case that hiring at Stripe is a very personal activity.

为了实现这一目标，Stripe 的招聘也是一项非常个人化的活动。

So look, there are lots of other companies where recruiting is kind of like this machine.

所以看，还有很多其他公司的招聘有点像这台机器。

And by the way, we have an awesome recruiting team, but folks across the rest of the company partner very closely with our recruiting team.

顺便说一句，我们拥有一支出色的招聘团队，但公司其他部门的人员与我们的招聘团队密切合作。

David Singleton: So it's not like it's a machine that delivers new hires, then you're like, oh, well maybe this person is here and I can put them to use on that thing.

大卫·辛格尔顿：所以这不像是一台输送新员工的机器，然后你会想，哦，好吧，也许这个人在这里，我可以把他们用在这件事上。

Our managers spend a lot of time identifying exactly what they need for the various roles that we have and then getting to know the potential candidates, the people out there in the world that could do these jobs actually really go quite deep with them on why it might make sense for them to feel like number one, they can feel very personally fulfilled against that mission here.

我们的经理花了很多时间来准确地确定他们对我们所拥有的各种角色的需求，然后了解潜在的候选人，世界上可以胜任这些工作的人实际上非常深入地与他们深入了解为什么他们感觉自己是第一，他们可以对这里的使命感到非常个人满足。

And then also why it represents a bigger opportunity for them than maybe anything else they can spend their time and attention on.

然后也是为什么这对他们来说比他们可以花时间和注意力的其他任何事情都代表着更大的机会。

And to that end, another thing that I think Stripe has definitely delivered for many, many people who join here is just, and I care about preserving this in the culture, is just tremendous learning opportunities.

为此，我认为 Stripe 确实为许多加入这里的人带来的另一件事是，我关心在文化中保留这一点，这就是巨大的学习机会。

David Singleton: Very, very many people at Stripe today are doing a quite different job to the one that they join for.

David Singleton：现在 Stripe 的很多人正在做着与他们加入时截然不同的工作。

In order to do that they've often had to learn a lot and stretch themselves into new areas.

为了做到这一点，他们经常需要学习很多东西并将自己扩展到新的领域。

It's also the case that when you think about that financial infrastructure we're building, the space really rewards people who want to go and learn a ton of detail in how these systems that are not that popular or well understood in the broader world, how they actually work and assimilate just a lot of context.

同样的情况是，当你想到我们正在建设的金融基础设施时，这个领域确实会奖励那些想要去了解大量细节的人，这些系统在更广泛的世界中并不那么受欢迎或不被充分理解，它们实际上是如何工作的，并吸收了很多背景。

And then in particular, you can build better stuff.

尤其是，你可以构建更好的东西。

Right.

正确的。

You're sharing that context with each other and helping other people learn.

您正在与彼此分享这种背景并帮助其他人学习。

And so I think that all ladders up to this kind of group of folks that you mentioned.

所以我认为所有的梯子都适合你提到的这类人。

And all the folks you mentioned are wonderful Stripes or former Stripes that come together in service of our users.

您提到的所有人员都是出色的 Stripes 或前 Stripes，他们聚集在一起为我们的用户服务。

Lenny: I always love to hear what people call their people internally.

莱尼：我总是喜欢听人们在内部如何称呼他们的员工。

So Stripes.

所以条纹。

Good to know.

很高兴知道。

Lenny: So just to summarize what you shared, which I was just writing as you were talking about the things that essentially help Stripe build this incredible team.

Lenny：总结一下您分享的内容，当您谈论从本质上帮助 Stripe 建立这个令人难以置信的团队的事情时，我正在写这些内容。

A strong mission and a mission that draws people in that are incredible and people may be hearing that and be like, yeah, yo, sure.

一个强大的使命和一个吸引人们的使命是令人难以置信的，人们可能会听到这个并且说，是的，哟，当然。

But in my experience, having invested in a bunch of companies and working with a lot of founders, there's such a dichotomy between how hard it is for companies to hire when they don't have a mission people really care about versus a mission that's really meaningful.

但根据我投资过很多公司并与很多创始人合作的经验，当公司没有人们真正关心的使命和真正有意义的使命时，公司招聘的难度有多大，这之间存在着这样的二分法。

So there's something so powerful there and so it's 100%, I could see how that works so well.

所以那里有一些非常强大的东西，所以它是 100%，我可以看到它是如何运作得这么好。

And then the other things you mentioned, patients, personal connections between the hiring manager and the people they're hiring.

然后是你提到的其他事情，病人，招聘经理和他们雇用的人之间的个人关系。

And I see that on Twitter, a lot of PMs are just doing things, like basically it's like they're writing on a little startup on Twitter like Jeff Weinstein,

我看到在 Twitter 上，很多产品经理只是在做事情，基本上就像他们在 Twitter 上写一些像 Jeff Weinstein 这样的小型初创公司的文章，

David Singleton: Jeff is the PM for our Atlas product, and he's a great example of someone who cares a lot about learning exactly how the world works.

David Singleton：Jeff 是我们 Atlas 产品的产品经理，他是非常关心了解世界如何运作的一个很好的例子。

So I mean for instance, one of the things that that team and Jeff really has driven this himself have done recently is recognizing that when you're starting a new business in the US, one of the most frustrating steps is that you have to apply for this Employer Identification Number from the IRS.

所以我的意思是，例如，该团队和杰夫本人最近真正推动的一件事是认识到，当您在美国开展新业务时，最令人沮丧的步骤之一是您必须向美国国税局申请此雇主识别号。

And it used to have an extremely long backlog and it's really hard.

而且以前积压的订单非常长，真的很难。

You can't start running your business until you have it.

在你拥有它之前，你不能开始经营你的生意。

David Singleton: And Jeff dug into the details, the team dug into the details and we're just like kept asking, does it have to be this way?

大卫·辛格尔顿：杰夫深入研究了细节，团队深入研究了细节，我们一直在问，事情必须是这样吗？

Does it have to be this way?

一定要这样吗？

And eventually we work with the IRS to make it possible for us to issue those numbers much, much more quickly, like instantly as you sign up.

最终，我们与美国国税局合作，使我们能够更快地发布这些号码，就像您注册时立即发布的那样。

And I think that's exactly a great example of how being curious, having this relentless passion to solve problems for users and then just keep plugging away at a problem delivers this great result and in a environment where you can learn a lot from each other.

我认为这正是一个很好的例子，说明了如何保持好奇心，拥有为用户解决问题的不懈热情，然后继续努力解决问题，从而在一个可以互相学习的环境中取得如此出色的成果。

Lenny: I hope he got a big promotion for getting the IRS to do something that he needed.

莱尼：我希望他能因为让国税局做他需要的事情而得到很大的晋升。

That's incredible.

那真是难以置信。

I'm going to ask, try to go one layer deeper on the hiring piece and then move on to a different topic, but,

我要问的是，尝试在招聘方面更深入一层，然后转向另一个主题，但是，

Lenny: What is just the interview process like?

Lenny：面试过程是怎样的？

I don't know how involved you are with the product management hiring process, but just I'm curious what that is like, high level and engineering hiring process, however you can share.

我不知道您对产品管理招聘流程的参与程度，但我很好奇那是什么样的，高水平和工程招聘流程，无论您如何分享。

David Singleton: Yeah, there are a couple things that are very common across hiring for all roles at Stripe and in particular engineers and PMs.

David Singleton：是的，在 Stripe 所有职位的招聘中，有一些非常常见的事情，特别是工程师和产品经理。

One of the things is we do have structured hiring loops.

其中一件事是我们确实有结构化的招聘循环。

So we put everyone through a very consistent process, so very personal as we help folks figure out why they might want to be here.

因此，我们让每个人都经历一个非常一致的过程，非常个性化，因为我们帮助人们弄清楚他们为什么想来这里。

But then we have a consistent way of evaluating talent.

但我们有一套一致的人才评估方法。

And I think that's important because it means that you can, as an interviewer, as a hiring manager, you can actually really start to understand what is the broad spectrum of responses you might get here and what do I actually learn about individual candidates when I'm asking similar questions.

我认为这很重要，因为这意味着作为面试官、招聘经理，你实际上可以真正开始了解你在这里可能得到的广泛答复，以及当我提出类似问题时，我对个别候选人真正了解什么。

The other thing that these loops have in common is nothing is a trick question.

这些循环的另一个共同点是没有什么是一个棘手的问题。

We try to put people into an environment which is as close to doing the actual work together as we possibly can.

我们尽力让人们处于一个尽可能接近一起实际工作的环境中。

David Singleton: So I mean for engineers for instance, we've got several different coding exercises that they do.

David Singleton：所以我的意思是，例如对于工程师来说，我们有他们所做的几种不同的编码练习。

They share their screen with the interviewer.

他们与面试官共享屏幕。

It's actually kind of pair programming welcome to use Google to search for Stack Overflow to search for answers.

这实际上是一种结对编程欢迎使用Google搜索Stack Overflow来寻找答案。

We don't care.

我们不在乎。

We just want to see the outcome.

我们只是想看看结果。

We're happy for you to ask your interviewer questions as you go along.

我们很高兴您在面试过程中向面试官提出问题。

And we've created these exercises that is close to real problems as we need to solve at Stripe as possible.

我们创建的这些练习尽可能接近我们在 Stripe 需要解决的实际问题。

The same is true on the PM side.

PM方面也是如此。

One of the things, for instance we do with PMs is we have a written exercise, we've got obviously a variety of different problems and we find that very valuable for actually just seeing how does someone attack a real problem that they would be solving at work and will they want to do that in a way that is curious, digging into the details, collaborative with their interviewer and so forth.

例如，我们与产品经理一起做的一件事是我们有一个书面练习，我们显然有各种各样的不同问题，我们发现这非常有价值，因为我们实际上只是了解某人如何解决他们在工作中要解决的实际问题，以及他们是否愿意以一种好奇的方式做到这一点，挖掘细节，与面试官合作等等。

So that's the point.

这就是重点。

Structured loops that are consistent.

一致的结构化循环。

And then questions that are as close to the real job as we possibly can.

然后是尽可能接近实际工作的问题。

Lenny: And for the questions on the PM side, do you have them do it at home or do them do it in the office?

莱尼：对于总理方面的问题，你让他们在家里做还是在办公室做？

David Singleton: It's a variety.

大卫·辛格尔顿：这是多种多样的。

Right now at Stripe, we're very much in a hybrid mode, so a lot of our interviews are still happening over Zoom, although we have plenty of great activity going on in our offices as well.

目前在 Stripe，我们基本上处于混合模式，因此我们的很多采访仍然通过 Zoom 进行，尽管我们的办公室也有很多精彩的活动。

The written exercises tend to be something that you do in your own time.

书面练习往往是您在自己的时间做的事情。

We suggest a time bind so it's not an unreasonable demand in the rest of your life.

我们建议设定一个时间限制，这样它就不会成为您余生中的不合理要求。

And then the other exercises are with an interviewer on Zoom.

然后其他练习是在 Zoom 上与面试官一起进行的。

Lenny: Okay.

莱尼：好的。

So speaking of product managers at Stripe, Stripe is kind of famous slash infamous for waiting a long time to hire your first product manager.

因此，说到 Stripe 的产品经理，Stripe 是一种著名的斜线，因等待很长时间才聘请第一位产品经理而臭名昭著。

From what I understand, it was like around the 200th employee and maybe five years in, which to me tells me that you're really good at building product minded engineers and or hiring and building a product minded engineering culture.

据我了解，大约是第 200 名员工，也许五年后，这对我来说告诉我，你真的很擅长培养以产品为导向的工程师，或者招聘和建立以产品为导向的工程文化。

How do you do that?

你是怎么做到的？

How do you go about doing that?

你打算怎样做呢？

And then I'm also just curious what PMs ended up bringing to the table and how they kind of collaborate now.

然后我也很好奇产品经理最终带来了什么以及他们现在如何合作。

David Singleton: Yeah, so I mean at Stripe today, we have lots of product managers, lots of engineers, product management's an extremely valuable and important job family.

David Singleton：是的，所以我的意思是，今天在 Stripe，我们有很多产品经理、很多工程师，产品管理是一个非常有价值和重要的工作群体。

I'll talk more about what folks do today.

我将更多地谈论人们今天所做的事情。

It is true that our original team, and I think we hire our first PM a little bit earlier than you said, but our original team was really an engineering team.

确实，我们最初的团队，我认为我们聘请第一位 PM 比你说的要早一些，但我们最初的团队实际上是一个工程团队。

However, they were extremely product minded.

然而，他们非常注重产品。

And I would honestly say that of all of the very early team that I've worked closely with and know well over time, every single one of them could also have been and essentially also was acting as a PM.

老实说，在与我密切合作并随着时间的推移而深入了解的所有早期团队中，他们中的每个人也可能并且本质上也担任过 PM。

If you think about the nature of the first Stripe product, and again today we solve problems for businesses from the very small to the very large across a whole range of financial infrastructure.

如果您考虑一下第一个 Stripe 产品的性质，今天我们再次为整个金融基础设施范围内的小型企业和大型企业解决问题。

But the initial product was very developer focused and we still have a developer focused at the core of many things that we do.

但最初的产品非常注重开发人员，我们仍然有一名开发人员专注于我们所做的许多事情的核心。

David Singleton: The best PMs for developer focused products I think are usually very technical.

David Singleton：我认为针对以开发人员为中心的产品的最佳产品经理通常技术性很强。

They're mostly former engineers themselves or maybe kind of current engineers still tinkering on the side, but bringing a lot of user insight and strategy to the problem.

他们大多是前工程师本身，或者可能是目前仍在业余修修补补的工程师，但为问题带来了大量的用户洞察和策略。

And every single early member of the team at Stripe had to act like that in order to work the way that we do and that we want to.

Stripe 团队的每一位早期成员都必须这样做，才能按照我们所做的和我们想要的方式工作。

So remember, again, that is to get to know our users very well and then bring those kind of personal insights into our product development loop.

因此，请再次记住，这是要充分了解我们的用户，然后将这些个人见解带入我们的产品开发循环中。

So I mean, in fact, the way we think about product development at Stripe, it really is to find the correct set of early users to kind of co-create the product with.

所以我的意思是，事实上，我们在 Stripe 考虑产品开发的方式，实际上是找到正确的早期用户来共同创建产品。

So maybe the best example of that, or at least an example of that is Stripe billing.

因此，也许最好的例子，或者至少是 Stripe 计费的一个例子。

So it's our solution for subscriptions and invoicing.

这是我们的订阅和发票解决方案。

David Singleton: And when we got to starting the Stripe billing product, we realized that there were a number of our existing users.

David Singleton：当我们开始启动 Stripe 计费产品时，我们意识到我们有很多现有用户。

These were companies like Figma and Slack.

这些是 Figma 和 Slack 等公司。

We were already using Stripe for payments, but had these subscriptions, business models, and we figured that there were going to be many more of these kind of companies into the future, and we could see that they were really kind of pushing the boundaries of what was possible here.

我们已经在使用 Stripe 进行支付，但有了这些订阅、商业模式，我们认为未来将会有更多这样的公司，我们可以看到他们确实在突破这里可能的界限。

So we decided to co-create the product with them.

因此我们决定与他们共同开发该产品。

The early team working on billing got a bunch of those companies included Slack and Figma, but a bunch more as well, got to know them.

早期的计费团队接触了很多这样的公司，包括 Slack 和 Figma，但也有更多的公司了解了它们。

But the individuals who were operating those systems at those companies personally understood exactly what their challenges and hopes and dreams for the future were, and then brought them into a kind of shared product development loop.

但在这些公司中操作这些系统的个人准确地了解他们对未来的挑战、希望和梦想是什么，然后将它们带入一种共享的产品开发循环中。

David Singleton: So we had shared Slack channels, we'd actually show them product on a very regular basis, get their feedback on it.

David Singleton：所以我们共享了 Slack 频道，我们实际上会定期向他们展示产品，获取他们的反馈。

And only when that original kind of Alpha group was super, super happy with the product did we then think it might be ready to go to a broader audience.

只有当最初的 Alpha 团队对产品非常非常满意时，我们才会认为它可能已经准备好面向更广泛的受众。

So that is just how we build product at Stripe.

这就是我们在 Stripe 构建产品的方式。

And that means that every engineer building product at Stripe really has many of the kind of attributes and will exercise many of the attributes that you'll often find in PMs in other companies.

这意味着在 Stripe 构建产品的每位工程师确实都具有许多此类属性，并且会运用您在其他公司的 PM 中经常看到的许多属性。

David Singleton: Now, that doesn't mean that there isn't a really important job for PMs to do here as well.

David Singleton：这并不意味着产品经理在这里没有真正重要的工作要做。

So something else that I think is worth knowing about Stripe and is somewhat unique is building products is also a much more kind of team sport at Stripe across functions.

因此，我认为 Stripe 值得了解且有些独特的一点是，构建产品也是 Stripe 跨职能部门的一种团队运动。

So there are the obvious functions that most companies have, engineers, engineering managers, product managers, designers, and those folks all get involved throughout the entire lifecycle of product development at Stripe.

因此，大多数公司都有明显的职能，工程师、工程经理、产品经理、设计师，这些人都参与了 Stripe 产品开发的整个生命周期。

But also, if you think about the nature of our products, it turns out that a lot of our products are about abstracting over what the financial system does at large.

而且，如果你考虑一下我们产品的本质，就会发现我们的很多产品都是对金融体系整体运作的抽象。

David Singleton: So sometimes there's a capability in a certain country and there's a different one in another country, and we want to make it all work consistently.

David Singleton：有时某个国家/地区有一种功能，而另一个国家/地区则有不同的功能，我们希望使其能够始终如一地发挥作用。

So our financial partnerships matter.

因此，我们的金融合作伙伴关系很重要。

So sometimes folks from our partnerships team are part of the kind of early development phase of a product.

因此，有时我们合作伙伴团队的人员会参与产品的早期开发阶段。

Similarly, when you think about product legal and many of the other functions around risk and compliance and so forth, we actually need their creative thinking in order to build the right stuff for our users.

同样，当您考虑产品法律以及围绕风险和合规性等的许多其他功能时，我们实际上需要他们的创造性思维，以便为我们的用户构建正确的产品。

So the point is it's a way more cross-functionally collaborative process than I've seen in a lot of other companies.

所以重点是，与我在许多其他公司看到的相比，这是一种更加跨职能的协作流程。

And PMs play just this absolute linchpin role across a lot of that.

产品经理在很多方面都扮演着绝对关键的角色。

So PMs are very frequently the ones that are providing the kind of look motion to bring all of that partnership together.

因此，PM 通常是提供某种外观动作以将所有合作伙伴聚集在一起的人。

They're very frequently the folks that are synthesizing what we're learning from our users.

他们常常是综合我们从用户那里学到的东西的人。

David Singleton: Not everyone is talking to users across all those job families, but the PM is probably the person talking to folks the very most and probably the one who's synthesizing the very best.

David Singleton：并不是每个人都会与所有这些工作类别的用户交谈，但产品经理可能是与人们交谈最多的人，也可能是综合最好的人。

They often and usually also bring a lot of the product strategy, okay, this is what we're doing today, but what does it ladder up to and therefore how do we make the right choices to make sure that we're taking the right longer term path.

他们经常而且通常还会带来很多产品策略，好吧，这就是我们今天正在做的事情，但是它会发展到什么程度，因此我们如何做出正确的选择，以确保我们走上正确的长期道路。

And so it's a super important and valuable role.

所以这是一个非常重要和有价值的角色。

And I mean, you've mentioned a couple of great ones on the call here already, but I think that the PMs at Stripe embodying a lot of the culture I talked about in our operating principles just contributed a tremendous amount to what we get done.

我的意思是，您已经在电话会议上提到了几位出色的产品经理，但我认为 Stripe 的 PM 体现了我在我们的运营原则中谈到的许多文化，他们为我们完成的工作做出了巨大贡献。

Lenny: Perfect segue to where I was going to go with the next question, which is, one of your operating principles is to be meticulous with your craft.

莱尼：完美地转到我要讨论的下一个问题，也就是说，你的操作原则之一就是对你的工艺一丝不苟。

And I know this is something that you focus on a lot.

我知道这是您非常关注的事情。

What I'm curious about is that sounds great.

我很好奇的是，这听起来很棒。

Everyone would love for that to be a focus of theirs and a core value in the way they operate.

每个人都希望这成为他们的关注焦点和他们运作方式的核心价值。

But there's always this trade off of we just got to ship stuff.

但我们总是要在运送东西的过程中进行权衡。

How do we wait until it's perfect?

我们怎样才能等到它完美呢？

So what I want to ask is just how do you operationalize this principle, first of all?

所以我想问的是，首先你如何落实这一原则？

And then I'm going to have a few follow up questions.

然后我将提出一些后续问题。

David Singleton: Yeah, great question.

大卫·辛格尔顿：是的，很好的问题。

Before I talk about this one operating principle, let me just set a little bit of context of,

在谈论这个操作原理之前，让我先介绍一下背景，

David Singleton: What are our operating principles at all.

David Singleton：我们的运营原则到底是什么？

So at Stripe we have operating principles and they're kind of like corporate values, but they're not just values, they're much less abstract than that.

因此，在 Stripe，我们有运营原则，它们有点像企业价值观，但它们不仅仅是价值观，而且远没有那么抽象。

So actually, we were just talking about the early Stripe team.

所以实际上，我们只是在谈论早期的 Stripe 团队。

I think one of the best things that they did, I mean they did a bunch of great stuff, finding early product market fit, but one of the most foresighted things that they did was to kind of take a little detour and think about what is it about how we've been working so far that we think has made us successful and is going to be important as we continue to scale.

我认为他们做的最好的事情之一，我的意思是他们做了很多伟大的事情，找到了早期的产品市场契合点，但他们做的最有远见的事情之一就是绕了一点弯路，思考一下我们迄今为止的工作方式是什么，我们认为这些工作使我们取得了成功，并且随着我们继续扩大规模，这将变得很重要。

And we capture those as a set of operating principles so...

我们将这些作为一组操作原则，以便......

David Singleton: Continue to scale and we capture those as a set of operating principles.

David Singleton：继续扩大规模，我们将这些作为一套运营原则。

So their behavior is distilled from the most effective Stripes and we really care about them.

因此，他们的行为是从最有效的 Stripes 中提炼出来的，我们非常关心他们。

So we talk about our operating principles a lot internally.

所以我们在内部经常讨论我们的运营原则。

I'll often see individual Stripes kind of celebrating each other's work in terms of which operating principle is kind of best represented.

我经常会看到各个 Stripes 互相庆祝彼此的工作，以最好地体现哪种操作原则。

We frame a lot of our feedback processes and so forth around them, although not exclusively.

我们围绕它们制定了很多反馈流程等，尽管并非完全如此。

The very first operating principle we have by the way, is users first.

顺便说一句，我们的首要运营原则是用户至上。

So we've already on this call, touched a bunch on how we put our users at the center of understanding what we should be doing at all.

因此，我们已经在这次电话会议中讨论了如何将用户置于理解我们应该做什么的中心。

And that idea that we've formed these deep personal relationships with our users to guide everything really comes from and is captured by that operating principle.

我们与用户建立了深厚的个人关系来指导一切的想法确实来自并被该操作原则所体现。

We also have operating principles.

我们也有经营原则。

They're kind of segmented into how we work, who we are, and then a bunch that leaders must execute.

它们被分为我们的工作方式、我们是谁，以及领导者必须执行的一系列内容。

David Singleton: So I mean another example of one of how we work ones is move with urgency and focus.

大卫·辛格尔顿：所以我的意思是我们工作方式的另一个例子是紧迫而专注地行动。

We really believe that even though we're building infrastructure that will persist for decades, it is important that we solve the needs our users just have right now, relatively rapidly so that it actually makes sense, is delivering value for them.

我们确实相信，即使我们正在构建将持续数十年的基础设施，但重要的是我们要相对快速地解决用户现在的需求，这样它才真正有意义，为他们提供价值。

So anyway, there there's a range of them.

无论如何，它们是有一定范围的。

You asked about being meticulous in our craft.

您询问我们的工艺是否一丝不苟。

So this is another highway work principle and it is very important at Stripe and you also call it Lenny, a challenge of being meticulous, which is, well, there's so much to get done.

所以这是另一个高速公路工作原则，它在 Stripe 非常重要，你也可以称之为 Lenny，这是一丝不苟的挑战，也就是说，有很多事情要做。

So where can I be meticulous?

那么哪里可以做到细致呢？

Because well, if you do it across everything, maybe a lot of progress would grind to a halt.

因为如果你在所有事情上都这么做，也许很多进步都会陷入停滞。

Well first of all, let me tell a couple of stories.

首先，让我讲几个故事。

David Singleton: So before I joined Stripe, I spent some time and it's a big part of deciding to join, playing with the product.

David Singleton：所以在我加入 Stripe 之前，我花了一些时间，这是决定加入的一个重要部分，并使用了该产品。

And something that really delighted me was that when I started integrating the product, there were parts of the experience where I was stuck.

真正让我高兴的是，当我开始集成该产品时，有些体验让我陷入困境。

So I made a mistake with how it integrated API.

所以我在它集成API的方式上犯了一个错误。

I was getting an error message back, but I wasn't stuck for very long because something that the team at Stripe had done was we made the error messages coming out of our API link to the piece of the docs that told you how to solve the problem.

我收到了一条错误消息，但我并没有被困很长时间，因为 Stripe 团队所做的事情是，我们将来自 API 链接的错误消息发送到告诉您如何解决问题的文档部分。

David Singleton: And that is a really good example of being meticulous in the craft.

大卫·辛格尔顿：这是在工艺上一丝不苟的一个很好的例子。

So it's pretty uncommon, it's certainly very uncommon back then for companies to do this, like your error messages or your API, who's ever going to look at them?

所以这很不常见，当时公司这样做肯定很不常见，比如你的错误消息或你的 API，谁会看它们？

Well, turns out developers while they're building and if they're running into problems, they will look at them.

事实证明，开发人员在构建过程中如果遇到问题，他们会关注这些问题。

It's actually a really high stakes moment because it's a time that matters.

这实际上是一个非常重要的时刻，因为这是一个重要的时刻。

So that is an example of where we've been meticulous in the product.

这就是我们在产品上一丝不苟的一个例子。

David Singleton: And the way that we kind of figure out where to be meticulous, where to really sweat the details and go above and beyond is again, we try to be as user first as we possibly can.

大卫·辛格尔顿（David Singleton）：我们弄清楚哪里需要一丝不苟，哪里需要真正关注细节并超越一切，我们再次尝试以用户为先。

So we have a process that is widely used across product teams that even like folks building stuff internally for Stripes to use, which we call friction logging.

因此，我们有一个在产品团队中广泛使用的流程，甚至喜欢人们在内部构建供 Stripes 使用的东西，我们称之为摩擦日志记录。

The way this works is you need to put yourself in a particular user's shoes.

其工作原理是您需要将自己置于特定用户的立场上。

It's actually important to have a very clear idea of who is the person I am kind of modeling the friction for right now.

实际上，非常清楚地了解我现在正在为摩擦建模的人是谁，这一点实际上很重要。

David Singleton: So for instance, I might be integrating the Stripe billing API and I might put myself in the shoes of an engineer at, I don't know, let's say Atlassian, which is one of the world's largest SaaS platforms and using actively Stripe billing for automating all the revenue today, I might put myself in the mindset of that person.

David Singleton：举例来说，我可能会集成 Stripe 计费 API，我可能会将自己置于工程师的立场，我不知道，比方说 Atlassian，它是世界上最大的 SaaS 平台之一，并且积极使用 Stripe 计费来实现当今所有收入的自动化，我可能会将自己置于那个人的思维模式中。

I might have met them recently and kind of understood a little bit better than otherwise doing this particular thing.

我可能最近见过他们，并且比其他情况下做这件事更好地理解了他们。

David Singleton: And then I will go through the process of actually using the product, starting off in the dashboard, hopping over to the particular page in the docs that I need to follow, starting to write code and so forth in order to do my integration and make really careful and meticulous notes of what the experience is.

David Singleton：然后我将完成实际使用该产品的过程，从仪表板开始，跳到我需要遵循的文档中的特定页面，开始编写代码等等，以便进行集成并非常仔细和细致地记录体验。

So stream of consciousness notes, but paying particular attention to the places where I ran into friction that I think that particular user mental modeling would find difficult.

因此，意识流注意到了，但要特别注意我遇到摩擦的地方，我认为特定的用户心理建模会发现困难。

And then those are the places where we will tend to go and invest a tremendous amount in really thinking how could we solve this problem?

然后我们会倾向于去这些地方并投入大量资金来真正思考如何解决这个问题？

And then putting a lot of attention into detail into making it right.

然后花很多精力在细节上以使其正确。

David Singleton: And by the way, the example I gave you on the error message is there's actually more code in the jobs that serve the Stripe API to handle those edge cases than in the actual main flow.

David Singleton：顺便说一句，我在错误消息中给您提供的示例是，在为 Stripe API 提供服务来处理这些边缘情况的作业中，实际上有比实际主流程中更多的代码。

And I think that's quite remarkable.

我认为这非常了不起。

Most people wouldn't do that, but it turns out not only was it something I was impressed with, but when I talk to Stripe users, this is very frequently something they tell me and delights them about the product.

大多数人不会这样做，但事实证明，这不仅让我印象深刻，而且当我与 Stripe 用户交谈时，他们经常告诉我，这让他们对该产品感到高兴。

It's a reason that they can adopt it more quickly and it's a reason that they keep adopting other Stripe products because they know that it's going to be easier than doing anything else.

这是他们可以更快地采用它的原因，也是他们继续采用其他 Stripe 产品的原因，因为他们知道这比做其他任何事情都更容易。

So it really matters.

所以这真的很重要。

So the point is like we are intentional about where the places where being particularly meticulous matters and then when we are, try to do it in quite a systematic way.

所以关键是我们有意识地知道哪些地方需要特别细致，然后当我们需要时，尝试以相当系统的方式去做。

It's great business as well.

这也是一笔很棒的生意。

David Singleton: So for instance, we actually just earlier today put a blog post up that explains we've been tuning both what we call our payment element, which is our kind of morph kind of batteries included UI for putting payment integrations directly on your website.

David Singleton：举个例子，我们实际上今天早些时候发布了一篇博客文章，解释了我们一直在调整我们所谓的支付元素，这是我们的一种变形电池，包括 UI，用于将支付集成直接放在您的网站上。

You can style it to fit with the rest of your page, but it has a lot of powerful features.

您可以对其进行样式设置以适应页面的其余部分，但它具有许多强大的功能。

And we also have a set of hosted services called Stripe Checkout.

我们还有一套名为 Stripe Checkout 的托管服务。

And the point here is we've gone and scarred a whole bunch of checkout flows on the internet over the course of many years and we look out for all of the little broken edges and we've been working hard on these products to tune those and then not, we don't just stop there.

这里的重点是，多年来我们已经在互联网上留下了一大堆结账流程，我们会留意所有的小破损边缘，我们一直在努力开发这些产品来调整它们，然后我们不会止步于此。

We've also been really obsessing about what are the things that we can do in the flows that we've already built that will remove latency or remove a click or whatever.

我们还非常着迷于在我们已经构建的流程中可以做哪些事情来消除延迟或消除点击或其他什么。

David Singleton: And what we found, we've recently measured the difference between, so with a bunch of actual users who've migrated from a fairly vanilla integration where they built their own checkout flow to one of these surfaces to our payment element or to Stripe Checkout, it turns out that it increases the average user's revenue by 10.5%.

David Singleton：我们发现，我们最近测量了两者之间的差异，因此，对于一群从相当普通的集成（他们构建自己的结账流程）迁移到这些界面之一到我们的支付元素或 Stripe Checkout 的实际用户来说，事实证明，它使平均用户的收入增加了 10.5%。

And that's huge.

那是巨大的。

So this is an industry where little changes that you might go about making or even big changes that you pour blood, sweat, and tears into will typically deliver uplifts in that you measure in basis points that's hundreds of a percentage point and this set of small changes compounding over time ladders up to 10.5%, it's huge.

因此，在这个行业中，你可能会做出的微小改变，甚至是你倾注心血、汗水和泪水的重大改变，通常都会带来提升，因为你以数百个百分点的基点来衡量，随着时间的推移，这组微小的变化复合起来可达 10.5%，这是巨大的。

And the point is you only get there by knowing that this is a thing that might ultimately matter and being meticulous in every single step along the way and that it compounds to a dramatic impact in the end.

关键是，只有知道这是一件最终可能很重要的事情，并且在整个过程中的每一步都一丝不苟，并且最终会产生巨大的影响，你才能到达那里。

So I think that that particular set of experiences is one where this operating principle has really mattered.

所以我认为，这一特定的经验是这一操作原则真正重要的地方。

David Singleton: Thinking about those kind of flows is what led us to build Link, which is our product for making one click checkout available.

David Singleton：对这些流程的思考促使我们构建了 Link，这是我们提供一键结账服务的产品。

And that has had a tremendous impact both on convenience for customers of our users and also on their conversion rate and so forth.

这对我们用户的客户便利性以及他们的转化率等都产生了巨大的影响。

So it really matters.

所以这真的很重要。

David Singleton: And then one final other area, if I may, I think Stripe is relatively well known for putting a lot of care and attention into our website, a lot of our marketing or product explanation pages.

David Singleton：最后一个领域，如果可以的话，我认为 Stripe 因在我们的网站、许多营销或产品说明页面上投入了大量的关心和关注而闻名。

And I think for a business like ours, it's not immediately obvious that it makes a tremendous amount of sense to be super meticulous in building those experiences.

我认为，对于像我们这样的企业来说，极其细致地打造这些体验的意义并不明显。

But we are, and again, I think it really matters for us and for our users.

但我再次认为这对我们和我们的用户来说确实很重要。

So the way that we got into this mode was we recognized that we are building a lot of infrastructure.

因此，我们进入这种模式的方式是我们认识到我们正在建设大量基础设施。

David Singleton: So we build what we call our global payments and treasury network.

David Singleton：因此，我们建立了所谓的全球支付和财务网络。

It is literally our product infrastructure for moving money into Stripe, holding balances on behalf of our users, moving money out, all of the automation between moving money between different businesses and all of the kind of regulatory stuff we have to handle, all handle in this big payment engine.

它实际上是我们的产品基础设施，用于将资金转移到 Stripe、代表用户持有余额、将资金转移出去、在不同企业之间转移资金以及我们必须处理的所有监管事务之间的所有自动化，所有这些都在这个大型支付引擎中处理。

But as a user, it's very hard for you to come in and inspect that and say, well, is it good?

但作为一名用户，你很难进来检查并说，嗯，这好吗？

I mean hopefully you can go and talk to a bunch of other Stripe users, but it's very hard to know from the outside.

我的意思是希望你可以去和其他一些 Stripe 用户交谈，但从外部很难知道。

So if we put a lot of care for detail and attention into the experiences that we use to explain the value and the power of that, it actually helps our users understand exactly how it is that we are trying to operate for them.

因此，如果我们对细节和体验投入大量关注，用来解释体验的价值和力量，它实际上可以帮助我们的用户准确地理解我们是如何为他们提供服务的。

David Singleton: And that's where all the meticulousness that we put into our site have come from.

David Singleton：这就是我们在网站上投入的所有一丝不苟的源泉。

There are lots of features like we have a spinning globe on our page that shows you what payment methods you can use in different countries and we have this kind of big animated wave on our homepage.

有很多功能，例如我们的页面上有一个旋转的地球仪，向您显示在不同国家/地区可以使用的付款方式，并且我们的主页上有这种大型动画波浪。

And in general, Stripe is kind of known for these great internet moments when we launched products.

总的来说，Stripe 因我们推出产品时的这些伟大的互联网时刻而闻名。

And so we did it because we wanted our users to be able to see the care and attention that we were taking.

所以我们这样做是因为我们希望我们的用户能够看到我们所付出的关心和关注。

It's turned like to have this wonderful kind of side benefit to some extent because those experiences tend to get shared a lot on Twitter and LinkedIn and elsewhere because they're worth looking at just because they're beautiful and they often push the web platform forward.

在某种程度上，这似乎是一种美妙的附带好处，因为这些体验往往会在 Twitter、LinkedIn 和其他地方被大量分享，因为它们值得一看，因为它们很漂亮，而且经常推动网络平台向前发展。

And that then means that folks are likely, folks who themselves want to push internet business forward, are likely to know about Stripe and know about our capabilities.

这意味着人们，那些本身想要推动互联网业务向前发展的人们，可能会了解 Stripe 并了解我们的能力。

David Singleton: So meticulousness plays out with impact in so many different ways at Stripe and I enjoy working that way in many different areas.

David Singleton：在 Stripe，一丝不苟会以多种不同的方式产生影响，我喜欢在许多不同的领域以这种方式工作。

Lenny: I have a few follow up questions along those lines, but before we do that I want to double click on this friction logging process.

Lenny：我有一些类似的后续问题，但在我们这样做之前，我想双击这个摩擦记录过程。

Lenny: Just understand how you actually do that.

莱尼：只要了解你实际上是如何做到这一点的。

So maybe two questions there.

也许有两个问题。

Is this a regular task people have on their plate say or is executives or just PMs in general?

这是人们所说的常规任务，还是高管或一般产品经理的任务？

And is there a template that you share just like you talked about who we are, what company are you working for, what problem are you trying to solve?

您是否有分享一个模板，就像您谈到我们是谁、您在哪家公司工作、您想要解决什么问题一样？

How do you actually kind of tactically operationalize that?

您实际上如何在战术上实施这一点？

David Singleton: Yeah, great question.

大卫·辛格尔顿：是的，很好的问题。

So it's a practice that is quite valuable generically.

因此，这是一种非常有价值的做法。

There are many places where you can apply friction logging in order to really shine a light on what is the most effective place to invest time and effort.

您可以在很多地方应用摩擦记录，以便真正了解哪些地方是投入时间和精力最有效的地方。

David Singleton: So we use the practice across lots of different functions and in lots of different ways at Stripe, but it is the case that almost every product team has someone, it's often the PM, sometimes it's the engineering manager who has a regular repeating loop of going through the end-to-end flow of the product and writing a friction log.

David Singleton：因此，我们在 Stripe 中以多种不同的方式在许多不同的职能部门中使用这种实践，但事实上，几乎每个产品团队都有专人，通常是 PM，有时是工程经理，他们定期重复循环查看产品的端到端流程并编写摩擦日志。

For years and years, I have gone through the process of onboarding user to Stripe once a month, writing a friction log and then tagging in the right people across the company that might need to take action on some of the things that we're observing.

多年来，我每月都会经历一次让用户加入 Stripe 的过程，编写摩擦日志，然后在公司中标记可能需要对我们观察到的一些事情采取行动的合适人员。

David Singleton: And one of the reasons that that kind of process of taking a big step back is useful is at this stage we have many people, we have thousands of engineers who are working in parallel.

David Singleton：这种后退一步的过程很有用，原因之一是在这个阶段我们有很多人，我们有数千名工程师在并行工作。

And while everyone cares a lot about being meticulous, paying attention to detail, getting the details can have to end up with experiences that diverge and going through this process of looking at it all together on a regular rhythm with friction logging really helps us maintain a cohesive whole while we all operate in parallel.

虽然每个人都非常注重一丝不苟，注重细节，但获取细节最终可能会带来不同的体验，通过摩擦记录以有规律的节奏一起审视所有细节的过程确实有助于我们在并行运作时保持一个有凝聚力的整体。

And so therefore senior leaders, executives, I guess of our larger areas will often do this as a practice themselves in order to make sure that everything that they're responsible for is coming together well.

因此，我想我们更大的领域的高级领导者、高管经常会这样做，作为一种实践，以确保他们负责的所有事情都能很好地结合在一起。

So it happens kind of recursively at different layers.

所以它在不同的层递归地发生。

David Singleton: To your question about is there a template, so relatively simple process.

David Singleton：对于你的问题，是否有一个模板，所以过程相对简单。

So yes, there is a template and in fact there's a Stripe talk dev article that maybe we can put into the show notes that has the template, but it literally is say what you want to do, be very explicit about the user that you are trying to have a mental model for because that helps you make the right choices as you go through the flow.

所以，是的，有一个模板，事实上有一篇 Stripe 谈话开发文章，也​​许我们可以将其放入包含该模板的节目笔记中，但它实际上是说你想要做什么，非常明确地了解你想要为其建立心理模型的用户，因为这可以帮助你在流程中做出正确的选择。

And then really just keep a very clear stream of consciousness log of what you're finding as you build.

然后，只需保持非常清晰的意识流日志，记录您在构建过程中发现的内容即可。

David Singleton: By the way, also really important, praise the stuff that's good.

David Singleton：顺便说一句，赞扬好的东西也很重要。

So I'll often send these docs around to a lot of folks inside of the company.

因此，我经常将这些文档发送给公司内部的许多人。

It's a great opportunity to recognize great work done.

这是一个表彰所做出色工作的绝佳机会。

So if I ran into that error message that links to the documentation, that's a great example where I'd be like, this is awesome.

因此，如果我遇到链接到文档的错误消息，这是一个很好的例子，我会想，这太棒了。

Nice work.

干得好。

Lenny: Being a PM that has received emails from the CEOs of companies with all the problems they ran into and they're trying to book, it's often like, oh God, I have so many goals I got to hit and I have this timeline, I have these things I'm working on.

莱尼：作为一名产品经理，当我收到公司首席执行官发来的电子邮件，询问他们遇到的所有问题并试图预订时，我常常会想，天啊，我有很多目标要实现，我有这个时间表，我有这些我正在做的事情。

What is the culture like slash how do you give teams space to do these things that are just like, we're just going to make the experience better?

像斜线这样的文化是什么，你如何给团队空间来做这些事情，就像我们只是想让体验变得更好？

How do you actually do that so that PMs aren't stressed out when they get these things?

您实际上如何做到这一点，以便产品经理在收到这些东西时不会感到压力？

David Singleton: It starts with our operating principles.

David Singleton：这要从我们的运营原则开始。

So because we have operating principles of users first and being meticulous in our craft, we actually tend, all of our ways of building plans tend to be wired quite well around this idea that we're going to reserve enough time to really make the experience good.

因此，因为我们有用户至上的操作原则，并且在工艺上一丝不苟，所以我们实际上倾向于，我们所有的制定计划的方式都倾向于很好地围绕这个想法，即我们将保留足够的时间来真正使体验变得良好。

Maybe the most pronounced version of that is not even the issues we identify in friction logs.

也许最明显的版本甚至不是我们在摩擦日志中发现的问题。

Maybe in a bit we can talk about how we invest in reliability and so forth, but things go wrong.

也许过一会儿我们可以讨论如何投资可靠性等等，但事情出了问题。

David Singleton: And one of the things that's very important to me is that we are a learning organization.

大卫·辛格尔顿：对我来说非常重要的一件事是我们是一个学习型组织。

We need to understand why they went wrong and then take action to stop the same thing going wrong in future.

我们需要了解他们为什么会出错，然后采取行动以防止将来再次出现同样的问题。

And so that means that we identify instant remediations, that's what we call those and we prioritize those carefully and most of them, the ones that matter actually get prioritized before other work on the roadmap, which means that as a PM when you're building your roadmap and your plans, you do have to think about, well approximately how much bandwidth do I need to reserve in this area in order to address and polish stuff that might come up through friction logging and also to take care of those kind of operational things as well?

因此，这意味着我们会识别即时补救措施，这就是我们所说的补救措施，我们会仔细优先考虑这些补救措施，其中大多数，实际上在路线图上的其他工作之前优先考虑那些重要的补救措施，这意味着作为产品经理，当您构建路线图和计划时，您必须考虑，大约需要在该区域保留多少带宽，以便解决和完善可能通过摩擦记录出现的内容，并处理这些操作性的事情？

David Singleton: It varies by team and varies by stage of product.

David Singleton：它因团队和产品阶段而异。

So there is no Stripe kind of like we will reserve 50% of our time to do this stuff.

因此，Stripe 不会像我们会预留 50% 的时间来做这些事情。

That wouldn't make any sense.

那没有任何意义。

But we do encourage and ask every team to think hard about how much should they be setting aside for those kind of activities.

但我们确实鼓励并要求每个团队认真思考他们应该为此类活动预留多少资金。

Does that make sense?

这有道理吗？

Lenny: Absolutely.

莱尼：当然。

I was going to ask you if there's a percentage and basically you trust the teams to set aside the right amount of time.

我想问你是否有一个百分比，基本上你相信团队会留出适当的时间。

Lenny: Awesome.

莱尼：太棒了。

Okay, so along the same lines, I actually asked Shreyas Doshi what I should ask you.

好吧，按照同样的思路，我实际上问了 Shreyas Doshi 我应该问你什么。

Lenny: You had no idea I was going to do this.

莱尼：你不知道我会这么做。

And what he said is I should ask you how you did UX reviews pre shipping right after you joined Stripe and you just said you were very good at this.

他说的是，我应该问你，在你加入 Stripe 后，你是如何在发货前进行 UX 审查的，而你刚刚说你非常擅长这方面。

And so what is that like and how should people learn from your experience?

那么这是什么样的？人们应该如何从你的经历中学习？

David Singleton: The way that I did UX reviews very early on in my time at Stripe and the way that every group at Stripe does these reviews is employing some of the techniques we talked about already.

David Singleton：我很早就在 Stripe 进行用户体验审查的方式以及 Stripe 的每个团队进行这些审查的方式都采用了我们已经讨论过的一些技术。

So that act of friction logging, it's very often done asynchronously.

因此，摩擦记录的行为通常是异步完成的。

So someone will sit down and reserve an afternoon and go through the product and make meticulous notes and that's super useful.

因此，有人会坐下来预留一个下午的时间，仔细检查产品并做细致的笔记，这非常有用。

David Singleton: We also find it very valuable to go through that process together.

David Singleton：我们还发现一起经历这个过程非常有价值。

So we will bring together both the team that built the product that we're looking at, but also a lot of their cross-functional partners.

因此，我们将汇集构建我们正在考虑的产品的团队，以及他们的许多跨职能合作伙伴。

So things like the support folks that are going to be handling or are building the process to handle questions from users about it.

因此，诸如支持人员之类的事情将要处理或正在构建流程来处理用户的相关问题。

Executives in the org that they're a part of to do these walkthroughs where we're taking exactly the same approach as I described with friction logging so imagining we're a particular user and experiencing the product together.

组织中的高管们参与了这些演练，我们采用与我在摩擦记录中描述的完全相同的方法，因此想象我们是一个特定的用户并一起体验该产品。

And then just discussing very openly actually the way that we do this today is we have a log of issues that we want to talk about that anyone can type into while the PM usually is walking us through the flow.

然后非常公开地讨论，实际上我们今天这样做的方式是我们有一个我们想要讨论的问题日志，任何人都可以在 PM 通常引导我们完成整个流程时输入这些问题。

And then we'll get together at the end and actually talk about each issue and does this need to be addressed?

然后我们最后会聚在一起，实际讨论每个问题，是否需要解决这个问题？

What do we really think about it?

我们到底是怎么想的？

So that that's the approach both that I took early on and that we take in at general at scale today.

这就是我早期采取的方法，也是我们今天普遍采用的方法。

David Singleton: There's a lot of benefit to doing this together.

David Singleton：一起做这件事有很多好处。

So someone once described this to me as if you were a chef, you're going to taste the soup and you're going to talk to your kitchen staff about what went into the soup when it was good and wasn't so good.

所以有人曾经向我描述过这一点，就好像你是一名厨师，你要品尝汤，然后你要和你的厨房工作人员讨论汤中的成分，当汤好或不好时。

If you run a movie studio, you're going to sit down and watch a lot of movies together.

如果你经营一家电影制片厂，你会坐下来一起看很多电影。

And so actually kind of looking at product together I find extremely energizing and also really valuable in actually teaching some of the kind of bar for craft and values around how we want the product to interoperate for our users at scale across the company.

因此，实际上，一起审视产品，我发现非常有活力，而且在实际教授一些关于我们希望产品如何在整个公司范围内为用户大规模互操作的工艺和价值观方面也非常有价值。

David Singleton: And building on that, there's something that we do occasionally and I've done occasionally a Stripe called Walk the Store where we'll actually do that process of looking at the product together with the whole company.

David Singleton：在此基础上，我们偶尔会做一些事情，我偶尔也会做一个名为“Walk the Store”的 Stripe，我们实际上会与整个公司一起查看产品。

So we have a weekly meeting called Friday Fireside where you don't have to attend, but the majority of the company does attend and we've done a few series where we'll actually go through some really, really interesting critical product flows together and talk about how this is reflecting various priorities that we have and shifts that we're trying to make, but in particular with the user experience and a particular user at the core.

因此，我们有一个名为“星期五炉边”的每周会议，您不必参加，但公司的大多数人都会参加，我们已经做了几个系列，我们将实际上一起讨论一些非常非常有趣的关键产品流程，并讨论这如何反映我们拥有的各种优先事项和我们正在尝试进行的转变，但特别是在用户体验和核心的特定用户方面。

And that turns out to have a tremendous amount of benefit and value in helping just everyone have a shared language, we're talking about things and get on the same page about everything.

事实证明，这在帮助每个人拥有共同语言方面具有巨大的好处和价值，我们正在谈论事情并在所有事情上达成共识。

David Singleton: So yeah, those are some of the techniques that Shreyas might have been thinking of.

David Singleton：是的，这些是 Shreyas 可能想到的一些技术。

Lenny: It's amazing how many directions you all come at to create this high quality end product walking the store, friction logging these entire company meetings, looking at the product, UX reviews, this is how it's possible to build something so high quality.

Lenny：令人惊奇的是，你们在商店里走动、记录整个公司会议、查看产品、进行用户体验评论，都在努力创造这种高质量的最终产品，这就是如何构建如此高质量的产品。

It's not just we have this value and we're going to be building great stuff.

我们不仅拥有这种价值，而且我们将创造伟大的东西。

It's like you have to come at it from so many places.

就好像你必须从很多地方来到这里。

David Singleton: Yeah, that's an interesting observation.

大卫·辛格尔顿：是的，这是一个有趣的观察。

I think almost anything that you talk about is a value.

我认为你谈论的几乎所有事情都是有价值的。

I mean, being a value matters, but you need to have a practice behind that.

我的意思是，成为一种价值观很重要，但你需要在这背后进行实践。

That means that the value becomes real for everyone.

这意味着价值对每个人来说都变得真实。

So we very frequently find that for any product development team, so long as they identify the right metrics that actually represent the experience that they want to deliver for their users and then get together frequently like predictably to look at how the team is doing against those metrics.

因此，我们经常发现，对于任何产品开发团队来说，只要他们确定了真正代表他们想要为用户提供的体验的正确指标，然后像可预见的那样频繁地聚在一起，看看团队在这些指标上的表现如何。

But then everything else just happens naturally because you understand what you're trying to move and every little micro decision you're making within your own time prioritization and then in terms of the actual work you're doing will ladder up to that.

但其他一切都会自然发生，因为你了解你想要移动的内容以及你在自己的时间优先级内做出的每一个微小的决定，然后就你正在做的实际工作而言，这将逐步实现。

And so why do I say that?

那么我为什么这么说呢？

It is like you have to have the predictable and regular thing that ladders up to the value you're trying to deliver in order to make it happen.

这就好像你必须拥有可预测的、常规的事情，以逐步达到你想要交付的价值，才能实现它。

Lenny: Coming back to the UX review, just a question there.

Lenny：回到用户体验审查，只是一个问题。

Presenting to the CTOs often very stressful in a review like that.

在这样的审查中向首席技术官进行演示通常会带来很大的压力。

What advice would you give PMs and designers and just leads of a team for how to prepare for a meeting like that, whether it's Stripe or anywhere?

对于如何准备这样的会议（无论是在 Stripe 还是在其他地方），您会给 PM、设计师和团队领导什么建议？

David Singleton: I personally try to be as friendly and unscary as possible, but I know that no matter how much I do that, these can't be high stakes meetings.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我个人会尽量表现得友好、不让人害怕，但我知道，无论我做多少努力，这些会议都不会是高风险的会议。

At Stripe, and I think it's probably goes for most companies, but at Stripe, the main answer here is put your user's hat on and if you understand your user well and what they're seeking to get out of the experience and anchor any questions you get asked or wobbles you may feel of like, oh, that was an out of the blue question back to well here's, remember what we're trying to do for our users, that usually makes any meeting like that go really well.

在 Stripe，我认为这可能适用于大多数公司，但在 Stripe，这里的主要答案是戴上你的用户的帽子，如果你很好地了解你的用户以及他们想要从体验中得到什么，并锚定你被问到的任何问题或你可能感觉摇摆不定的问题，哦，这是一个突然的问题，回到这里，记住我们试图为我们的用户做什么，这通常会让任何这样的会议进展顺利。

And so that would be my main piece of advice.

这就是我的主要建议。

David Singleton: So I mean a risk that exists in any company as you get to run a bigger team or whatever is that individual contributors, individuals will have a very small amount of time with you in general.

大卫·辛格尔顿：所以我的意思是，当你管理一个更大的团队或个人贡献者时，任何公司都存在这样的风险，一般来说，个人与你在一起的时间非常少。

So there's always a risk that you might make a kind of fairly unimportant remark and it will be taken out of context to be something very important.

因此，总是存在这样的风险：您可能会发表某种相当不重要的言论，而它会被断章取义地认为是非常重要的事情。

So I personally also try very hard to anchor feedback I'm giving in what's the user experience we're trying to deliver?

因此，我个人也非常努力地将我给出的反馈锚定在我们试图提供的用户体验上？

Does this actually matter?

这真的重要吗？

Recognizing that that is a risk and yeah, it definitely takes constant practice.

认识到这是一种风险，是的，这肯定需要不断的练习。

Lenny: You've touched on a couple of these things, but just if someone's trying to get better at building product, either a PM, designer, engineer, what kind of advice do you often give for helping people just build better product?

Lenny：你已经谈到了其中的一些事情，但是如果有人试图更好地构建产品，无论是产品经理、设计师还是工程师，你经常给出什么样的建议来帮助人们构建更好的产品？

David Singleton: Almost always goes back to things we've already talked about here.

David Singleton：几乎总是回到我们已经在这里讨论过的事情。

So remember at the very top I talked about iterating very closely with users?

还记得我在最上面谈到过与用户密切合作的迭代吗？

If you have a mechanism to listen to users, get something in their hands quite quickly and then get their feedback on it to run it back through a feedback loop, you're very unlikely to go wrong.

如果您有一种机制来倾听用户的意见，很快地将某些东西拿到他们手中，然后获得他们的反馈，然后通过反馈循环运行它，那么您就不太可能出错。

Especially if you put a lot of thought into these being the right users whose needs you want to focus on because they ladder up to your strategy.

特别是如果您对这些用户进行了大量思考，认为这些用户是您想要关注的合适用户，因为他们会逐步适应您的策略。

It's actually very hard to go wrong if you have that feedback loop working really well.

如果反馈循环运转良好，实际上就很难出错。

David Singleton: So if you don't have that feedback loop, and actually it's remarkable as I talk to folks across the industry and so forth, it's remarkable how frequently that feedback loop doesn't exist in product development cycles.

David Singleton：所以，如果你没有反馈循环，实际上，当我与整个行业的人们交谈时，这是值得注意的，产品开发周期中不存在反馈循环的频率是值得注意的。

So if you don't have that, go figure out how to create it and if you do have it, but you can't get something into user's hands very rapidly from you having the idea that this might matter to getting their feedback on it, figure out how to make that go faster as well.

因此，如果你没有这个，就去弄清楚如何创建它，如果你有它，但是你无法很快地将某些东西交到用户手中，因为你知道这可能对获得他们的反馈很重要，也想办法让它进展得更快。

And at Stripe, we focus a lot on all of our developer tooling and infrastructure on making it possible for changes to get delivered continuously to production so we can get them in front of users very rapidly and that's really important.

在 Stripe，我们非常关注所有开发人员工具和基础设施，使更改能够持续交付到生产中，这样我们就可以非常快速地将它们呈现在用户面前，这非常重要。

Lenny: This episode is brought to you by Braintrust, where the world's most innovative companies go to find talent fast so that they can innovate faster.

莱尼：这一集是由 Braintrust 为您带来的，世界上最具创新力的公司都在其中快速寻找人才，以便更快地创新。

Let's be honest, it's a lot of work to build a company and if you want to stay ahead of the game, you need to be able to hire the right talent quickly and confidently.

老实说，建立一家公司需要做很多工作，如果您想在竞争中保持领先地位，您需要能够快速、自信地聘用合适的人才。

Braintrust is the first decentralized talent network where you can find, hire and manage high quality contractors in engineering, design and product for a fraction of the cost of agencies.

Braintrust 是第一个去中心化的人才网络，您可以在这里找到、雇用和管理工程、设计和产品方面的高质量承包商，而费用仅为代理机构的一小部分。

Lenny: Braintrust charges a flat rate of only 10%, unlike agency fees of up to 70% so you can make your budget go four times further.

Lenny：Braintrust 只收取 10% 的统一费率，与高达 70% 的代理费不同，因此您可以使预算多出四倍。

Plus they're the only network that takes 0% of what the talent makes so they're able to attract and retain the world's best tech talent.

此外，他们是唯一一个收取 0% 人才收入的网络，因此能够吸引并留住世界上最优秀的技术人才。

Take it from DoorDash, Airbnb, Plaid, and hundreds of other high growth startups that have shaved their hiring process for months to weeks at less than a quarter of the cost by hiring through Braintrust network of 20,000 high quality vetted candidates ready to work.

以 DoorDash、Airbnb、Plaid 和其他数百家高增长初创公司为例，通过 Braintrust 网络招聘 20,000 名经过审查的高素质候选人，这些公司将招聘流程缩短了数月至数周，成本不到四分之一。

Lenny: Whether you're looking to fill in gaps, upskill your staff, or build a team for that dream project that finally got funded, contact Braintrust and you'll get matched with three candidates in just 48 hours.

Lenny：无论您是想填补空缺、提高员工技能，还是为最终获得资助的梦想项目组建团队，请联系 Braintrust，您将在短短 48 小时内找到三位候选人。

Visit usebraintrusts.com/lenny or find them in my show notes for today's episode.

请访问 usebraintrusts.com/lenny 或在我今天这一集的节目笔记中找到它们。

That's usebraintrust.com/lenny for when you need talent yesterday.

当您昨天需要人才时，这就是 usebraintrust.com/lenny。

Lenny: Something that I've heard about you is that you get into the weeds, you get really deep as a CTO of a company at the scale of Stripe and I came across this term engineerications, which I think connects to this.

Lenny：我听说过你，作为 Stripe 规模的公司的首席技术官，你会深入了解你的情况，而且我遇到了“工程”这个术语，我认为它与此有关。

Can you talk about that and how you think about just getting in the weeds?

您能谈谈这一点以及您对加入杂草的看法吗？

David Singleton: First of all, in terms of how much getting in the weeds matters.

大卫·辛格尔顿（David Singleton）：首先，就杂草的影响程度而言。

At Stripe, we find that it's very important for engineering managers in particular, but really all managers to really have a very detailed understanding of whether their teams are kind of on the right track and where they're getting stuck in order to make sure that we make the most progress in unit time for our.

在 Stripe，我们发现这对于工程经理来说尤其重要，但实际上所有经理都需要非常详细地了解他们的团队是否走在正确的轨道上以及他们陷入了困境，以确保我们在单位时间内取得最大的进步。

David Singleton: We're getting stuck in order to make sure that we make the most progress in unit time for our users.

David Singleton：为了确保我们在单位时间内为用户取得最大进展，我们陷入了困境。

So we find that, again, the nature of the problems we're solving, really reward domain expertise, like assimilating a deep understanding.

因此，我们再次发现，我们正在解决的问题的本质确实奖励了领域专业知识，例如吸收深刻的理解。

And we ask all of our managers to be kind of the editors in chief of their teams plans.

我们要求所有的经理成为他们团队计划的主编。

And I think the only way to do that is to get the right loop for yourself to understand what is actually going on the ground.

我认为做到这一点的唯一方法就是为自己找到正确的循环，以了解实际情况。

Now, it would be really damaging if I was only doing work at the IC engineering level every day.

现在，如果我每天只做 IC 工程层面的工作，那确实是有害的。

That doesn't ladder up to someone who's able to help guide the team or whatever.

这并不能提升到能够帮助指导团队或其他什么的人。

So it's important to just judiciously but done on the right cadence.

因此，明智地但以正确的节奏完成是很重要的。

I think it's very, very valuable.

我认为这是非常非常有价值的。

So engineer occasion is something that I personally do.

所以工程师场合是我个人做的事情。

So it's obviously a port man of engineer and vacation, but it's not a vacation.

所以这显然是一个工程师和假期的港口工人，但这不是假期。

David Singleton: The way we get to the name of the tower, at least the way I think about it is what you do on engineer occasion is I'll clear, other people track do this as well.

David Singleton：我们得出塔的名称的方式，至少我认为你在工程师场合所做的事情是我会澄清的，其他人也跟踪这样做。

I'll clear several days in a road, three or four days actually join a team, pick up a small task, hopefully a small feature that we can get all the way from start to finish in production and do that going through the exact experience the team has.

我会在路上清理几天，三到四天实际上加入一个团队，接受一个小任务，希望我们可以在生产中从头到尾获得一个小功能，并通过团队拥有的确切经验来做到这一点。

So you get to understand the developer tools, the build infrastructure, how you get stuff reviewed, how good is the documentation, how long did I have to wait in order to actually see my thing live in order to start that feedback loop that I talked about with users.

因此，您可以了解开发人员工具、构建基础设施、如何审查内容、文档有多好、我需要等待多长时间才能真正看到我的东西，以便启动我与用户谈论的反馈循环。

So you're actually going and joining a team and doing some work.

所以你实际上是要去加入一个团队并做一些工作。

David Singleton: While one does that, it's really valuable and important to keep a friction log because then what you want to do is write up the experience both as an aid memoir for yourself because it then helps you go and for all of the next year's worth of conversations I might be involved in around making trade offs and helping set priorities, that context really helps.

大卫·辛格尔顿：虽然人们这样做，但保留摩擦日志确实很有价值也很重要，因为你想做的就是把这段经历写下来，既作为你自己的辅助回忆录，因为它可以帮助你前进，而且对于我可能参与的明年所有关于做出权衡和帮助确定优先事项的对话，这种背景确实很有帮助。

So I actually reread these reports periodically and it's also really valuable to actually share them work with the team, which then demonstrates, well I understand what it's actually like and here's how we're going to make sure that we're carrying that information through prioritization.

因此，我实际上会定期重读这些报告，与团队实际分享它们的工作也非常有价值，这可以证明，我很好地理解它实际上是什么样的，这就是我们将如何确保我们通过优先级来传递这些信息。

So that's what you do.

所以这就是你要做的。

The name is, it's the often the hardest thing about these is finding the time to clear your calendar for that many days.

顾名思义，这些事情中最困难的事情往往是找到时间清理这么多天的日历。

So the reason I think about it is a vacation is of course people go on vacation.

所以我想到假期的原因当然是人们去度假。

David Singleton: By the way, I work very hard to use all my vacation days every year.

大卫·辛格尔顿：顺便说一句，我非常努力地工作，利用每年所有的假期。

I think that taking a break and recharging your creative juices is valuable.

我认为休息一下并补充你的创造力是很有价值的。

So the point is when you're on vacation, the world goes on and it's all fine.

所以重点是当你在度假的时候，世界还在继续，一切都很好。

So I treat it like I'll decline every meeting in order to clear my schedule and have a maker schedule in order to do that.

因此，我对待它就像我会拒绝每次会议，以便清理我的日程安排，并制定一个制造商日程安排来做到这一点。

And so I've done this many times at Stripe.

我在 Stripe 已经做过很多次这样的事情了。

I advise engineering managers at Stripe that they should do an engineer occasion sometime in their first quarter to six months at the company.

我建议 Stripe 的工程经理，他们应该在公司第一季度到六个月的某个时候举办一次工程师活动。

It gives you a tremendous amount of context for what your teams are actually experiencing and then for folks who do it once a year on an ongoing basis and it provides a tremendous amount of context.

它为您提供了大量背景信息，了解您的团队实际经历的情况，然后为每年持续进行一次的人员提供大量背景信息。

Lenny: That is insane.

莱尼：这太疯狂了。

I've never heard of that process.

我从来没有听说过这个过程。

How do you stay knowledgeable and up to date on the infrastructure and the code that you have to code and all of a sudden things move so fast?

您如何保持对基础设施和您必须编码的代码的了解和最新状态，并且突然间事情进展得如此之快？

David Singleton: The process is literally to help you do that.

David Singleton：这个过程实际上是为了帮助你做到这一点。

I guess maybe something I left out in explaining it is we'll often identify a buddy on the team who's going to help you through.

我想也许我在解释时遗漏了一些事情，那就是我们经常会在团队中找到一个可以帮助你渡过难关的伙伴。

So for what it's worth at Stripe, we write a lot of code in Ruby, we write a lot of code in other just Java type script as well.

因此，就 Stripe 的价值而言，我们用 Ruby 编写了很多代码，也用其他 Java 类型脚本编写了很多代码。

But our kind of core infrastructure is mostly implemented, core product infrastructure mostly implemented in Ruby.

但我们这种核心基础设施大部分是用Ruby实现的，核心产品基础设施大部分是用Ruby实现的。

When I started I had never written a line of Ruby in my life and I knew I wanted to do this thing and actually done something like it before joining and I was really scared.

当我开始时，我一生中从未写过一行 Ruby，我知道我想做这件事，并且在加入之前实际上做了类似的事情，我真的很害怕。

How much credibility might I lose if I show up and I can't write a line of Ruby.

如果我出现了，但我一行 Ruby 都写不出来，我可能会失去多少可信度。

But my first buddy was a guy called Ajhja who's still at Stripe doing great stuff and he helped me learn Ruby during these three days and they me a little bit, but ultimately everyone really appreciated that I've done it.

但我的第一个朋友是一个叫 Ajhja 的人，他仍在 Stripe 做着很棒的事情，他在这三天里帮助我学习了 Ruby，他们帮助我学习了一点，但最终每个人都非常欣赏我所做的事情。

Lenny: Imagine being the engineer has to review your PR.

Lenny：想象一下，工程师必须审查你的 PR。

David Singleton: I tell them this is an important part of the process.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我告诉他们这是这个过程的重要组成部分。

Please don't treat me any different to anyone else.

请不要以与其他人不同的方式对待我。

And obviously to make this work well you have to set the expectation that you're not going to take me action if something isn't exactly the way you want it to be.

显然，为了让这项工作顺利进行，你必须设定这样的期望：如果事情不完全按照你想要的方式进行，你不会让我采取行动。

It is a moral kind of longitudinal process.

这是一种道德的纵向过程。

Lenny: Is there something that you found in this process that comes to mind that was really surprising or interesting or just kind of lasting in the past set of couple years?

莱尼：在这个过程中，你有没有发现一些真正令人惊讶或有趣的东西，或者只是在过去几年中持续存在的东西？

David Singleton: One of the most interesting things that I think I've run into is there are a lot of places that as we scale, we know that it makes a lot of sense to invest in automation and there were a bunch of places in our development process where while we've done that, we were working hard to help each other out and actually saying, hey, please come talk to this other team if you want to use this thing.

David Singleton：我认为我遇到的最有趣的事情之一是，随着我们规模的扩大，我们知道在很多地方投资自动化非常有意义，而且在我们的开发过程中有很多地方，当我们这样做时，我们正在努力互相帮助，实际上是在说，嘿，如果你想使用这个东西，请与另一个团队交谈。

And if you're working for instance, a different time zone from someone else, it's often the case that actually it would be much better just to document it well and automate it and then maybe make the consultation available.

例如，如果您在与其他人不同的时区工作，通常情况下，最好将其记录下来并使其自动化，然后也许可以提供咨询。

And so running into those kind of pieces of friction and then having a good conversation about it has really helped.

因此，遇到这些摩擦，然后进行良好的对话确实很有帮助。

But one good thing about Stripe I think is that kind of change doesn't depend on me doing anything.

但我认为 Stripe 的一个好处是这种改变并不依赖于我做任何事情。

David Singleton: So we really care about making Stripe a place where engineers can do some of the best work of their careers and that means being enabled with good tools and good developer productivity.

David Singleton：因此，我们非常关心让 Stripe 成为工程师可以完成其职业生涯中最好的工作的地方，这意味着能够使用良好的工具和良好的开发人员生产力。

So we invest a lot in developer productivity.

因此，我们在开发人员生产力方面投入了大量资金。

We have a team who work on our dev tools and they actually run exactly the same product development process that I just described for our external users internally.

我们有一个团队负责我们的开发工具，他们实际上运行与我刚刚在内部为外部用户描述的完全相同的产品开发流程。

So understand your users really well.

所以要非常了解你的用户。

Talk to them a lot, as so for instance, we do a monthly survey.

与他们经常交谈，例如，我们每月进行一次调查。

We operate in enough scale where we can ping enough people once a month that we get a statistically significant sample of the entire organization without having to get everyone to respond.

我们的运营规模足够大，我们可以每月对足够多的人进行 ping 操作，这样我们就可以获得整个组织的具有统计意义的样本，而无需让每个人都做出回应。

Every individual respond once every six months.

每个人每六个月回复一次。

And we ask very directly, what's the experience you're having?

我们非常直接地问，你有什么经历？

And then we use that to prioritize the roadmap of our developer productivity team.

然后我们用它来确定开发人员生产力团队路线图的优先级。

We also measure everything so we know where people are getting stuck and when we compare both the kind of free responses and the data, it helps us invest in the best places to make everyone else more productive.

我们还衡量一切，以便我们知道人们在哪里陷入困境，当我们比较免费回复和数据时，它可以帮助我们投资于最好的地方，以提高其他人的生产力。

Lenny: Okay, that's exactly where I was hoping to go next.

莱尼：好的，这正是我下一步想去的地方。

And let me set this question up.

让我提出这个问题。

So I saw a tweet of yours recently where I have some notes here I'm going to read that you deploy changes to your core, API 16.4 times a day on average.

我最近看到了您的一条推文，其中有一些注释，我将读到您平均每天 16.4 次部署对核心 API 的更改。

Your uptime has been 99.999% and one in 10 people in the world have transacted with a business powered by Stripe at this point.

您的正常运行时间已达到 99.999%，此时世界上有十​​分之一的人与 Stripe 提供支持的企业进行过交易。

And so my question is just what does it take to achieve something like this, especially in terms of tooling and culture and everything else you're just talking about?

所以我的问题是，要实现这样的目标需要什么，特别是在工具和文化以及您刚才谈论的其他方面？

David Singleton: Well I think it's worth saying at Stripe we are trying to do something I think relatively unique, which is what we power for the businesses to build on Stripe our users, it's really business critical to them.

David Singleton：嗯，我认为值得一提的是，在 Stripe，我们正在尝试做一些我认为相对独特的事情，这就是我们为企业在 Stripe 上构建我们的用户提供的动力，这对他们来说确实是至关重要的业务。

We're literally talking about money coming into your business to help you run your operations or make it even possible for you to run your operations and maybe pay your employees and so forth.

我们实际上谈论的是进入您的企业的资金，以帮助您运营您的业务，甚至使您有可能运营您的业务，并可能支付您的员工工资等等。

All the revenue automation that we do around billing subscriptions, our financial automation products, helping you close your books, this stuff matters.

我们围绕计费订阅、我们的财务自动化产品所做的所有收入自动化，帮助您结账，这些都很重要。

You cannot get it wrong.

你不会弄错的。

And we also operate, Stripe today, we move as much money as all of e-commerce was when Stripe got started.

今天我们还运营 Stripe，我们转移的资金与 Stripe 刚开始时所有电子商务的资金一样多。

So we operate very significant scale and so business critical significant scale, we just have a tremendous duty to our users to get this right and be extremely reliable and available for them.

因此，我们的运营规模非常大，业务关键型规模也非常大，我们对用户负有巨大的责任，确保做到这一点，并为他们提供极其可靠和可用的服务。

David Singleton: So we do think about that a lot.

大卫·辛格尔顿：所以我们确实对此进行了很多思考。

Now there's one way to be very reliable, which is to try to change things as infrequently as possible.

现在有一种非常可靠的方法，那就是尝试尽可能少地改变事情。

Never change anything than you have many fewer opportunities for things to break.

永远不要改变任何东西，这样破坏东西的机会就会少得多。

But we don't take that approach.

但我们不采取这种方法。

The needs of our users are evolving so rapidly, the number of ways that we want to serve them and can serve them is evolving rapidly enough that it matters a lot that we can operate in a kind of constantly changing environment.

用户的需求变化如此之快，我们希望为他们提供服务以及能够为他们提供服务的方式的数量也在快速变化，以至于我们能够在不断变化的环境中运营非常重要。

Hopefully I've explained why that matters like that type feedback because it's only possible if you can actually get something in their hands.

希望我已经解释了为什么这种类型的反馈很重要，因为只有当你真正能得到他们手中的东西时才有可能。

So we choose to design the way we work to hold those two things true at the same time and it does take a lot of care and attention and it takes a lot of systems.

因此，我们选择设计我们的工作方式来同时实现这两件事，这确实需要大量的关注和关注，并且需要大量的系统。

So maybe just kind of build this up.

所以也许只是建立这个。

David Singleton: First of all, there's a lot in our development process and the ways that we take changes into our product that makes this possible.

David Singleton：首先，我们的开发过程以及我们对产品进行更改的方式使这一切成为可能。

One of those is we really care a lot about having really good test suites.

其中之一是我们非常关心拥有真正好的测试套件。

So we believe in automated testing.

所以我们相信自动化测试。

We don't have manual testers because manual testers couldn't possibly cover the vast array of API endpoint and configurations that we offer but automated test can.

我们没有手动测试人员，因为手动测试人员不可能涵盖我们提供的大量 API 端点和配置，但自动化测试可以。

So we work hard to have a lot of automated test coverage and then every single change that an engineer produces gets run through this battery of tests before it can even possibly go towards production.

因此，我们努力进行大量的自动化测试覆盖，然后工程师产生的每一个更改都会经过一系列测试，然后才能投入生产。

And then we work very hard as changes end up in production to put them through increasingly realistic and then more broadly exposed environments.

然后，我们非常努力地完成生产中的变更，让它们经历越来越现实、然后更广泛暴露的环境。

So we have a bunch of staging environments where we'll send a battery of more realistic end-to-end tests.

因此，我们有很多临时环境，我们将在其中发送一系列更真实的端到端测试。

Then finally when something actually goes to production, it starts at very small percentage of the traffic and then wraps up to the hole.

最后，当某些东西真正投入生产时，它开始时只占流量的很小一部分，然后就结束了。

David Singleton: So we can detect problems before they become huge problems.

David Singleton：所以我们可以在问题变成大问题之前发现它们。

There's a number of things that we had to do to make that all possible.

为了使这一切成为可能，我们必须做很多事情。

So for instance, every change that Strip engineer submits test, it actually ends up in production automatically over the course of the next 45 minutes or so.

例如，Strip 工程师提交测试的每项更改实际上都会在接下来的 45 分钟左右的时间内自动投入生产。

And I don't think there are a lot of financial services companies, at least not until maybe the last few years that have operated that way.

我认为没有很多金融服务公司，至少在过去几年里不会以这种方式运营。

And so that takes a certain mind shift.

因此，这需要一定的思维转变。

You actually have to assume that that's going to happen and put the right systems and processes in place.

实际上，您必须假设这种情况将会发生，并采取正确的系统和流程。

And then the other thing that's important is to recognize that we have to obsess about getting very systematically good at addressing anything that can go wrong.

另一件重要的事情是认识到我们必须致力于非常系统地解决任何可能出错的问题。

So I mentioned earlier it's really important to me that we are a continuously learning organization.

所以我之前提到，我们是一个持续学习的组织对我来说非常重要。

David Singleton: And I mean something else that matters of course is things will go wrong.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我的意思是，当然还有其他重要的事情是事情会出错。

Sometimes there is a downstream partner where something breaks, other times there is a particular kind of network outage side of our control or whatever.

有时下游合作伙伴会出现问题，有时会出现我们控制范围内的特定类型的网络中断或其他情况。

So things will go wrong.

所以事情就会出错。

So it's important that we have the right systems in place that minimize the damage that any individual thing going wrong can cause.

因此，重要的是我们必须建立正确的系统，以最大限度地减少任何个别问题可能造成的损害。

And we work hard on that.

我们为此努力工作。

We have redundant systems in a bunch of places.

我们在很多地方都有冗余系统。

We think hard about how something that breaks for one user wouldn't kind of carry over into other users and then we actually very actively work hard to put things right when they are wrong.

我们认真思考对某个用户造成的影响如何不会影响到其他用户，然后我们实际上非常积极地努力在错误时纠正错误。

So that's called instant response at most companies including Stripe.

这在包括 Stripe 在内的大多数公司中被称为即时响应。

I actually think Stripe is very, very good at instant response.

事实上我认为 Stripe 非常非常擅长即时响应。

We've got very good tools for both declaring incidents and then pulling the right people together to put them right.

我们拥有非常好的工具来报告事件，然后将合适的人员聚集在一起以纠正事件。

David Singleton: But we don't stop there.

大卫·辛格尔顿：但我们并不止于此。

We really obsess about reviewing them carefully and identifying not only what would've stopped this thing happening, but how could we prevent this whole class of issues in the future.

我们非常着迷于仔细审查它们，不仅确定什么可以阻止这种事情发生，而且确定我们如何才能防止将来出现此类问题。

And as I said earlier, we prioritize working on that stuff ahead of anything else on the roadmap that's because of remember what it is we're trying to do, how important it is and how if we don't do that well, we can't move quickly for our users.

正如我之前所说，我们将这些工作优先于路线图上的其他任何事情，因为记住我们正在尝试做什么，它有多重要，以及如果我们做得不好，我们将无法为我们的用户快速采取行动。

So that's how we do it.

我们就是这样做的。

David Singleton: By the way, I don't want to come across here and sound like we've got it all figured out.

David Singleton：顺便说一句，我不想​​在这里听起来好像我们已经解决了所有问题。

Of course all of this is always entirely influx.

当然，所有这一切总是完全涌入的。

We're always anxious to figure out how we can make it go better.

我们总是渴望弄清楚如何才能让它变得更好。

For instance, in recent years we realize that we could get a lot of benefit from what we call chaos testing.

例如，近年来我们意识到我们可以从所谓的混沌测试中获得很多好处。

That's like injecting errors and making sure that the systems respond in such a way that it doesn't cause any impact on users.

这就像注入错误并确保系统的响应方式不会对用户造成任何影响。

So it's constantly evolving and we really enjoy learning from other companies and learning from our users as well.

因此它在不断发展，我们非常喜欢向其他公司学习，也向我们的用户学习。

But it's something we care about and think very rigorously and systematically alone.

但这是我们关心并单独进行非常严格和系统思考的事情。

Lenny: Did you say that it takes only 45 minutes from pushing code to it going into production?

Lenny：你是说从推送代码到投入生产只需要 45 分钟吗？

David Singleton: Typically yes.

大卫·辛格尔顿：通常是的。

So that battery of tests that I described, that gets run on every change, that gets run in parallel to when you send it for review by another human.

因此，我描述的一系列测试会在每次更改时运行，并且与您将其发送给另一个人进行审核时并行运行。

So it's run once, typically takes about 15 minutes and then once the changes merged into our code base, we run that same test suite one more time.

因此，它运行一次，通常需要大约 15 分钟，然后一旦更改合并到我们的代码库中，我们就会再次运行相同的测试套件。

So another 15 minutes then typically takes about 30 minutes for the systems to automatically deployed in production.

因此，再过 15 分钟，系统通常需要大约 30 分钟才能在生产中自动部署。

That's how we run and think about establishing that tight feedback loop with users, that means you can get feedback from a user in the morning, you can figure out how to address it and you can actually put something back in their hands by the end of the day.

这就是我们与用户建立紧密反馈循环的方式，这意味着你可以在早上从用户那里得到反馈，你可以找出如何解决它，并且你可以在一天结束时将一些东西放回他们手中。

And that loop running inside of 24 hours I think is pretty important.

我认为 24​​ 小时内运行的循环非常重要。

Lenny: That's incredible.

莱尼：这太不可思议了。

I remember times that Airbnb where took hours for tests to finish because there's a lot of them and they fix that over time.

我记得 Airbnb 有时候需要几个小时才能完成测试，因为测试数量很多，而且他们会随着时间的推移修复这些问题。

But I'm used to more on that scale.

但我已经习惯了这种规模。

David Singleton: It takes constant effort to hold.

大卫·辛格尔顿：需要不断的努力才能坚持下去。

Those numbers by the way are important.

顺便说一句，这些数字很重要。

Those are about the right numbers I think for a company operating our kind of scale.

我认为对于一家经营我们这种规模的公司来说，这些数字是正确的。

Of course as you add more stuff, you add more tests.

当然，当您添加更多内容时，您就会添加更多测试。

So we've had to work on, we had to invent mechanisms to make it run more in parallel, we now have a thing called selective test execution where we figure out for not the battery that runs before it goes into production that we run everything and just run it in more machines to make it parallelize.

所以我们必须努力，我们必须发明机制来让它更多地并行运行，我们现在有一种叫做选择性测试执行的东西，我们发现在投入生产之前运行的电池不是我们运行的所有东西，而是在更多机器上运行它以使其并行化。

But for the changes or the tests that we run for individual changes, we actually have systems that figure out, well which tests are the ones that might be material for this particular thing?

但是对于我们为个别更改运行的更改或测试，我们实际上有系统可以弄清楚哪些测试可能对这个特定的事情是重要的？

And that's been a real source of innovation.

这是创新的真正源泉。

In fact, our distributed change and test environment at Stripe is the biggest distributed system that we actually run.

事实上，我们在 Stripe 的分布式变更和测试环境是我们实际运行的最大的分布式系统。

And so running that requires just as much energy and effort and rigor and craft as everything else.

因此，跑步与其他事情一样需要精力、努力、严谨和技巧。

Lenny: What are some of the things you've done that have had the most impact on developer productivity?

Lenny：您所做的哪些事情对开发人员的生产力影响最大？

David Singleton: We've touched on a couple of these already.

David Singleton：我们已经谈到了其中的几个。

That auto deploy mechanism definitely had a very significant individual impact.

这种自动部署机制无疑对个人产生了非常重大的影响。

So before we introduced that, sometime within the last five years each deployed to production required an engineer to actually babysit it, to watch it as it, make sure all the charts look good.

因此，在我们介绍这一点之前，在过去五年内的某个时候，每个部署到生产中的项目都需要一名工程师来实际照顾它，观察它，确保所有图表看起来都很好。

And it was a bit of kind of game of roulette because you always wish that your change would get bundled in with someone else's so that they were paying attention to it for you.

这有点像轮盘赌游戏，因为你总是希望你的零钱能与其他人的零钱捆绑在一起，这样他们就会为你关注。

So literally being able to be fingers on keyboard on something else while your change is going live and it's going to automatically monitored, that was a big improvement in our productivity.

因此，当您的更改生效并自动监控时，实际上能够将手指放在键盘上做其他事情，这对我们的生产力来说是一个巨大的提高。

Also, very small things.

还有，非常小的事情。

This is just like optimizing checkout, very small changes really compounded in a big way.

这就像优化结帐一样，非常小的变化实际上会产生很大的影响。

So for instance, by eight months ago we made it possible, we use a tool for code review.

例如，八个月前我们使之成为可能，我们使用了代码审查工具。

David Singleton: It's quite popular, it's GitHub enterprise, but we've built a bunch of our own experiences and controls around that and we have a little tick box that you can tick on your pool request.

David Singleton：它非常受欢迎，它是 GitHub 企业版，但我们已经围绕它构建了一系列我们自己的经验和控制，并且我们有一个小复选框，您可以在池请求上勾选。

That's what you call an individual change that an engineer produces that is auto merge, which means once the reviewer says this is good, I don't need to come back and look at it again, the system should just take over and that just cuts out one whole kind of human distraction step and that laddered up to a big change in productivity as well.

这就是你所说的工程师产生的自动合并的个人更改，这意味着一旦审阅者说这是好的，我不需要再回来看它，系统应该接管，这只是消除了一种人类分心的步骤，这也导致了生产力的巨大变化。

So these very small changes can if you're deliberate with them, ladder up to a big impact.

因此，如果你深思熟虑，这些非常小的改变可以产生巨大的影响。

Lenny: I'm going to go in a different direction now.

莱尼：我现在要朝不同的方向前进。

AI very hot right now.

AI现在非常火。

Has AI impacted the way you all build product yet?

人工智能是否影响了你们构建产品的方式？

And if not, where do you think it starts to go in the next few years?

如果没有，您认为未来几年它会走向何方？

David Singleton: Yeah, we're very excited about AI.

David Singleton：是的，我们对人工智能感到非常兴奋。

Now to just take one step back, Stripe has been using machine learning and advanced machine learning techniques at the heart of our products since the very early days.

现在退一步来说，Stripe 从一开始就一直在我们产品的核心中使用机器学习和先进的机器学习技术。

Radar is our solutions for payment fraud and it has used, I mean this is the very core of our products and has used machine learning since we introduced it.

雷达是我们针对支付欺诈的解决方案，它已经使用了，我的意思是这是我们产品的核心，并且自从我们推出它以来就使用了机器学习。

We also, if you think about the nature of Stripe, we operate in an environment where we have to do a lot of work to kind of catch bad actors in the system, fraudsters or fraudulent businesses.

另外，如果你考虑一下 Stripe 的本质，我们的运营环境必须做大量工作才能抓住系统中的不良行为者、欺诈者或欺诈企业。

So we've been employing a lot of machine learning techniques there again for years and we couldn't operate the company without them.

因此，我们多年来一直在那里使用大量机器学习技术，没有它们我们就无法运营公司。

So the difference between ML and AI, I think when we think about AI today we're mostly talking about the applications of large language models, but those are really based on this new technology called Transformers.

因此，ML 和 AI 之间的区别，我认为当我们今天考虑 AI 时，我们主要谈论大型语言模型的应用，但这些实际上是基于称为 Transformers 的新技术。

David Singleton: It was a paper that came out of Google a while back about four years ago, five years ago.

David Singleton：这是一篇大约四年前、五年前谷歌发表的论文。

And we put transformer technology into those systems at some point more than a year ago.

一年多前，我们将变压器技术引入这些系统。

And it's proved to have a very profound impact on our ability to solve those problems for our users, which is great.

事实证明，它对我们为用户解决这些问题的能力产生了非常深远的影响，这非常棒。

But we are also excited about the applications of large language models.

但我们也对大型语言模型的应用感到兴奋。

I mean there's really two dimensions to this.

我的意思是这实际上有两个维度。

Number one, we feel privileged to be able to help serve and power a lot of businesses getting started in this space.

第一，我们很荣幸能够帮助服务和支持许多在这个领域起步的企业。

One big difference between AI startups and others is it's actually quite expensive to operate an AI startup in terms of the compute resources.

人工智能初创公司与其他初创公司之间的一大区别是，就计算资源而言，运营一家人工智能初创公司实际上相当昂贵。

Like running this stuff in these GPU machines is quite expensive.

就像在这些 GPU 机器上运行这些东西是相当昂贵的。

So typically these companies need to have a monetization model from day one.

因此，通常这些公司从第一天起就需要有一个盈利模式。

And I'm really excited to say most of the AI on these is running on Stripe and we're working very hard to make sure we serve all their needs.

我真的很高兴地说，这些上的大部分人工智能都在 Stripe 上运行，我们正在努力确保满足他们的所有需求。

David Singleton: Open AI, for instance, using us for monetizing chat GPT plus and all their other products.

David Singleton：例如，开放人工智能，利用我们通过聊天 GPT plus 和他们所有其他产品获利。

But they don't just stop there.

但他们并不止于此。

We're actually helping power all of their subscriptions and revenue tracking and financial operations around the business.

我们实际上正在帮助他们支持所有订阅、收入跟踪以及围绕业务的财务运营。

And the point about that is we've been putting very large engineering teams on this stuff for years and that means anyone who wants to build a reconciliation product and a subscriptions business model, if you want to do that yourself, you have to put big engineering teams on them.

重点是，我们多年来一直在这方面投入非常庞大的工程团队，这意味着任何想要构建对账产品和订阅业务模型的人，如果你想自己做，你就必须投入大型工程团队。

But if you can use Stripe instead, you can actually focus those really precious engineering resources on keeping up with the rate of breakneck innovation in this space.

但如果您可以使用 Stripe，您实际上可以集中那些真正宝贵的工程资源来跟上该领域的惊人创新速度。

So we're excited about that, but we're also really excited about the applications of these AI techniques on our own ability to serve our users better.

所以我们对此感到很兴奋，但我们也对这些人工智能技术在我们自己更好地服务用户的能力上的应用感到非常兴奋。

And so for instance, at sessions we'll be talking about a few of these.

例如，在会议上我们将讨论其中的一些内容。

David Singleton: We started working with OpenAI when they had the beta.

David Singleton：当 OpenAI 推出测试版时，我们就开始与他们合作。

It was a kind of private beta of GPT four available at the beginning of this year.

这是今年年初推出的 GPT 4 的一种私人测试版。

The first thing we thought of was we've got a lot of documentation on Stripe and we put a lot of care attention into making it good.

我们首先想到的是我们有很多关于 Stripe 的文档，并且我们投入了大量的精力来使其变得更好。

But if you want to achieve something with your Stripe integration, you're typically going to spend quite a lot of time reading docs and kind of synthesizing them as an end user.

但是，如果您想通过 Stripe 集成实现某些目标，您通常会花费大量时间阅读文档并以最终用户的身份综合它们。

We realized we can have GPT four read all of our docs, store them as embeddings and then answer questions for developers.

我们意识到我们可以让 GPT 4 读取我们的所有文档，将它们存储为嵌入，然后回答开发人员的问题。

And so we now have that available in kind of early stage release inside of our documentation.

因此，我们现在在文档中提供了早期版本。

It's turning out to be pretty valuable.

事实证明它非常有价值。

We've also been able to apply these techniques to other areas of our products.

我们还能够将这些技术应用到我们产品的其他领域。

So something that we're going to show an early version of IT sessions is we have a really powerful product as part of our revenue and financial automation suite, which we call Sigma.

因此，我们将在 IT 会议的早期版本中展示的是，我们有一个非常强大的产品，作为我们的收入和财务自动化套件的一部分，我们称之为 Sigma。

David Singleton: It allows you to write sequel queries across all of your Stripe data so you can interrogate your Stripe data to understand your business and really fine grain detail.

David Singleton：它允许您在所有 Stripe 数据中编写后续查询，以便您可以查询 Stripe 数据以了解您的业务和真正细粒度的细节。

Which country has the fastest growing sales, which segment in which country has particular attributes to it?

哪个国家的销售额增长最快，哪个国家的哪个细分市场具有特殊属性？

Very powerful product, but it's one that is potentially challenging for non-developers to adopt.

非常强大的产品，但对于非开发人员来说采用它可能具有挑战性。

You do have to know how to write sequel queries unless you just use the ones in the menu in order to get the full value out of the product.

您确实必须知道如何编写后续查询，除非您只是使用菜单中的查询来充分发挥产品的价值。

Well it turns out with large language models, we can apply this technology where you can ask questions in natural language and our engine will actually write the sequel query for you.

事实证明，对于大型语言模型，我们可以应用这项技术，您可以用自然语言提出问题，我们的引擎实际上会为您编写后续查询。

And we've had to do a lot of work to kind of tune that to make sure that it's reliable and understandable and it's going really well.

我们必须做很多工作来调整它，以确保它可靠、易于理解，并且进展顺利。

And we also see great applications in actually applying these technologies to make us more efficient internally, answer users questions faster, help each other out more quickly.

我们还看到了这些技术在实际应用中的出色应用，使我们的内部效率更高，更快地回答用户问题，更快地互相帮助。

And so we're doing those things as well.

所以我们也在做这些事情。

One concrete thing that we did, which I'm pretty excited about is not long after we saw chat GPT come out, we realized it would be really awesome if we could apply that to many use cases inside of Stripe.

我们所做的一件具体的事情，令我非常兴奋的是，在我们看到聊天 GPT 出现后不久，我们意识到如果我们能够将其应用到 Stripe 内的许多用例中，那将是非常棒的。

But as you can imagine, a lot of the data that we are dealing with on a daily basis is very sensitive to our business, to our users and we care a lot and we have a lot of governance around this, but we wanted to make that technology bill.

但正如你可以想象的那样，我们每天处理的许多数据对我们的业务、我们的用户非常敏感，我们非常关心，我们对此有很多治理，但我们希望制定这项技术法案。

We couldn't say, Hey Stripes, go and use chat GPT.

我们不能说，嘿 Stripes，去使用聊天 GPT。

So we stood up an integration to GPT four and an internal UI to use models like that.

因此，我们建立了与 GPT 4 的集成和内部 UI 来使用此类模型。

But here's the thing that I want to kind of relate to all of your viewers.

但这是我想与所有观众产生共鸣的事情。

We find that we built presets into that.

我们发现我们在其中内置了预设。

David Singleton: So when you work with large language models, you want to write a prompt that then helps get the model into a state where it's going to be able to solve the particular problem at hand.

David Singleton：因此，当您使用大型语言模型时，您需要编写一个提示，以帮助模型进入能够解决手头特定问题的状态。

And we find that writing prompts is something that's accessible to folks across lots of different job families, not just engineers.

我们发现，许多不同工作类别的人们都可以编写提示，而不仅仅是工程师。

Folks in our marketing team, folks in our user support team have been able to use this as well.

我们营销团队的人员、用户支持团队的人员也已经能够使用它。

But you can put a lot of care and attention to getting a prompt that works really well and we not make it possible for those to be shared across the company.

但是，您可以花很多心思和精力来获得真正有效的提示，但我们无法让这些提示在整个公司内共享。

So I can grab the preset to help me write a blog post with the right kind of tone and I find it extremely valuable in helping me and many other people across the company.

因此，我可以获取预设来帮助我以正确的语气撰写博客文章，我发现它对于帮助我和公司的许多其他人非常有价值。

So I think there's a lot of innovation in high companies serve their users and operate is possible right now and we are working hard to employ all of that on behalf of our users.

因此，我认为高端公司有很多创新服务于他们的用户，并且现在就可以运营，我们正在努力代表我们的用户利用所有这些创新。

Lenny: What about as engineers?

莱尼：作为工程师呢？

Are pro co-pilot, is there some along those lines that you find useful weary of?

作为专业副驾驶，您是否觉得有些有用的厌倦？

How do you think about that?

您对此有何看法？

David Singleton: We're excited about co-pilot.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我们对副驾驶感到很兴奋。

We've made co-pilot available to our engineers internally.

我们已经在内部为我们的工程师提供了副驾驶。

We ran a fairly rigorous trial to make sure that we felt good about its actual impact on our ability to write code and the code it was actually generating and find that it was very effective for us.

我们进行了相当严格的试验，以确保我们对它对我们编写代码的能力以及它实际生成的代码的实际影响感到满意，并发现它对我们非常有效。

Both in productivity but also just in helping our engineers feel like they could direct their energy towards some of the bigger problems.

无论是在生产力方面，还是在帮助我们的工程师感觉他们可以将精力集中到一些更大的问题上。

How should this stuff fit together rather than some of the micro problems.

这些东西应该如何组合在一起而不是一些微观问题。

So because we had such great feedback on that, we've made it available very broadly internally and we'll be very excited to see where that space develops over time.

因此，因为我们对此得到了非常好的反馈，所以我们在内部非常广泛地提供了它，我们将非常高兴地看到这个空间随着时间的推移而发展。

Lenny: Do you have a sense of the productivity gain that say imagine you have a lot of 10X engineers, the gains that an amazing engineer gets out of a co-pilot versus a newer engineer?

Lenny：想象一下，你有很多 10X 工程师，你是否感觉到生产力的提高，即一位出色的工程师从副驾驶那里获得的收益与新工程师相比？

David Singleton: It's honestly too early to tell because we've only recently made it available at scale.

David Singleton：说实话，现在下结论还为时过早，因为我们最近才大规模推出它。

What we're typically seeing is that the kind of tasks that it accelerates are, remember I mentioned how much energy we put into having comprehensive test suites.

我们通常看到的是，它加速的任务类型是，记住我提到过我们在全面的测试套件上投入了多少精力。

It's actually using co-pilot to generate your test cases, turns out to be extremely valuable.

它实际上是使用副驾驶来生成测试用例，事实证明这是非常有价值的。

There's a reasonable amount of boiler plate that is kind of like repeated code and concepts that goes into writing good tests.

有相当数量的样板，有点像编写好的测试所需的重复代码和概念。

But you also have to reason very carefully about is this actually testing is exactly what I want?

但你也必须非常仔细地思考这是否真的是我想要的测试？

So co-pilot takes a lot of that boiler plate generation out of the way.

因此，副驾驶消除了很多样板生成过程。

So you're actually thinking about the stuff that really matters.

所以你实际上正在考虑真正重要的事情。

And I think that is going to have a profound impact on quality of code that we write as well.

我认为这也会对我们编写的代码质量产生深远的影响。

But it's a little too early to say, because we literally just folded out what kind of actual measurable impact is having.

但现在说还为时过早，因为我们实际上只是列出了正在产生的实际可衡量的影响。

Lenny: I was talking to an engineer and he's just like, I like the active writing code and it makes me sad that this is doing this for me.

Lenny：我正在和一位工程师交谈，他说，我喜欢积极地编写代码，这让我很难过，因为这是为我做的。

So he turns it off.

所以他把它关掉了。

Lenny: This is doing this for me, so he turns it off.

莱尼：这是为我做的，所以他把它关掉了。

I think over time people will be like, "Eh, that's true.

我想随着时间的推移，人们会说，“呃，这是真的。

I never really enjoyed this part of it."

我从来没有真正喜欢过这一部分。”

David Singleton: Yeah, I'll speak from personal experience.

大卫·辛格尔顿：是的，我将从个人经历中谈谈。

I love writing code.

我喜欢写代码。

I really love writing code.

我真的很喜欢写代码。

It's pretty much what I do for fun.

这几乎就是我为了好玩而做的事情。

I also love writing code with Copilot, because as I said, it means that I can focus on the parts that really matter.

我也喜欢使用 Copilot 编写代码，因为正如我所说，这意味着我可以专注于真正重要的部分。

I think that's been a fairly consistent experience across Stripe as well.

我认为这在 Stripe 上也是相当一致的体验。

Lenny: Awesome.

莱尼：太棒了。

You run a massive engineering team.

您管理着一支庞大的工程团队。

I don't know if you shared the numbers of engineers, but I know there are many.

我不知道你是否分享了工程师的数量，但我知道有很多。

What are, and this is a broad question, just what are some lessons you've learned about managing people and/or managing engineers, whichever direction you want to go?

这是一个广泛的问题，您在管理人员和/或管理工程师方面学到了哪些经验教训，无论您想朝哪个方向发展？

David Singleton: Wow, big question.

大卫·辛格尔顿：哇，大问题。

There are so many different directions we could take that.

我们可以采取很多不同的方向。

I'll share a few observations.

我将分享一些观察结果。

They don't necessarily all have a particular theme to them.

它们不一定都有特定的主题。

I think as I've been responsible for bigger and bigger teams over time, one of the things that just I repeatedly learn is I personally will not be involved in really any of the decisions that matter and happen.

我认为，随着时间的推移，我一直负责越来越大的团队，我反复学到的一件事是，我个人不会真正参与任何重要和发生的决策。

There are thousands of decisions that an organization of any skill is making every single day, every individual engineer or PM is making hundreds of small decisions and some big ones every day that affect the kind of general trajectory.

任何技能的组织每天都会做出数千个决策，每个工程师或 PM 每天都会做出数百个小决策和一些大决策，这些决策会影响总体轨迹。

David Singleton: The most important thing is to really focus on hiring the right people, and that means hiring people that you can trust with a tremendous amount of autonomy.

David Singleton：最重要的是真正专注于雇用合适的人，这意味着雇用您可以信任且拥有巨大自主权的人。

If I try to get involved in lots of decisions, everything will grind to a halt.

如果我试图参与很多决定，一切都会陷入停滞。

How do you do that?

你是怎么做到的？

It is important, obviously, to be rigorous.

显然，严谨很重要。

We've described already what our hiring process is.

我们已经描述了我们的招聘流程。

I really lean into getting to know folks in very, very well as we're hiring them.

当我们雇用他们时，我真的很想非常非常了解他们。

By the way, something I didn't mention earlier that is I think important here is we pay a lot of attention at Stripe during the hiring process to references.

顺便说一句，我之前没有提到但我认为这里很重要的一点是，我们在 Stripe 在招聘过程中非常注重推荐人。

David Singleton: This is typically later in the process, but if you put someone through an interview process, you've probably spent what, eight hours total with them?

David Singleton：这通常是在流程的后期，但如果你让某人经历面试过程，你可能总共花了八个小时与他们在一起？

If you talk to people that actually have worked with them before, you're probably benefiting from thousands of hours of direct experience.

如果您与以前实际共事过的人交谈，您可能会从数千小时的直接经验中受益。

We take this very seriously, and we try to ask smart questions that will help get real signal out of that.

我们非常重视这一点，并尝试提出明智的问题，这将有助于从中获得真正的信号。

I certainly find when it comes to hiring folks that have then gone on to really make a transformative impact, that references are often the time that you get the best conviction on the hire or not.

我当然发现，当涉及到聘用那些真正产生变革性影响的人时，推荐信通常是你对聘用与否获得最佳信念的时候。

David Singleton: Hire the right people, and then you have to trust them.

David Singleton：雇用合适的人，然后你必须信任他们。

Now, trust is interesting.

现在，信任很有趣。

Is actually quite challenging to trust people that you've just hired, right?

信任你刚刚雇佣的人实际上是很有挑战性的，对吧？

Well, you've got no stake really on you yet.

好吧，你还没有真正的赌注。

What I find is you do actually just have to be generous in giving trust and assuming trust by default at the beginning.

我发现你实际上只需要在开始时慷慨地给予信任并默认接受信任。

Then you do need to hold people accountable enough that they are proving that they can handle that trust.

那么你确实需要让人们承担足够的责任，以证明他们能够承受这种信任。

Sometimes, that means hiring someone who you think quite plausibly can end up in a very big role into a smaller role to begin with.

有时，这意味着雇用一个你认为很有可能最终会担任一个非常大角色的人，然后开始扮演一个较小的角色。

Other times, you just have the big role that you need to fill, in which case, it's important to be quite conscious about really trusting and delegating to them with a lot of support.

其他时候，你只是需要扮演重要的角色，在这种情况下，重要的是要有意识地真正信任他们并在大量支持下委派给他们。

David Singleton: I'm always working hard to delegate sometimes a little bit more than I'm comfortable with, because that's the only way to really operate at significant scale.

David Singleton：我总是努力委派更多的人，有时会超出我的承受范围，因为这是真正大规模运营的唯一方法。

I think something else, and sorry, this is really a smorgasboard is what a lot of differences.

我认为还有其他事情，抱歉，这确实是一个大杂烩，有很多差异。

David Singleton: Something else I've realized as the organizations I work with and been responsible for have grown is that you have to be extremely conscious about managing your own time.

大卫·辛格尔顿：随着我所工作和负责的组织的发展，我还意识到，你必须非常有意识地管理自己的时间。

There are hundreds or thousands of people who, quite legitimately, might want to get some time with you.

有成百上千的人可能想和你共度时光，这也是合理的。

If you just let the places that you spend your time and energy be controlled by the stuff that comes into your inbox, or the stuff that gets put on your calendar, that's going to be random.

如果您只是让收件箱中的内容或日历上的内容来控制您花费时间和精力的地方，那么这将是随机的。

It's quite likely that that's not laddering up to the biggest impact.

这很可能还没有达到最大的影响。

I personally have been running a loop for, I don't know, maybe 10 years, where on Sunday evenings, and usually, well, it usually starts on Sunday afternoons, I read a lot of what happened last week.

我个人已经循环运行了，我不知道，也许有10年了，在周日晚上，通常，嗯，通常从周日下午开始，我读了很多上周发生的事情。

David Singleton: Then on Sunday evenings, I actually write a list for myself of, you asked me a question at this podcast, which is like, what would be great success for this podcast from your perspective?

大卫·辛格尔顿：然后在周日晚上，我实际上为自己写了一个清单，你在这个播客中问了我一个问题，就像，从你的角度来看，这个播客会取得巨大的成功？

David Singleton: I basically think about that for my week every Sunday night.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我基本上每周日晚上都会思考这个问题。

I make a list of if we got these things done this week, that is a good week, but obviously, we need to be dynamic.

我列出了一个清单，如果我们本周完成了这些事情，那将是美好的一周，但显然，我们需要充满活力。

Things will surprise you through the week.

这周的事情会让你感到惊讶。

Honestly, then, that drives a lot of just where I decide to spend my time.

老实说，这在很大程度上决定了我决定把时间花在哪里。

I try to encourage everyone to think that way throughout the organization.

我试图鼓励整个组织中的每个人都这样思考。

I think it does ladder up to more impact over time.

我认为随着时间的推移，它确实会产生更大的影响。

I think the final thing I'll say here is I mentioned how important operating principles are to the culture.

我想我要说的最后一件事是我提到了运营原则对文化的重要性。

I think for any manager and any leaders, that includes ICPMs as well, but for any manager, any leader, how you show up really does set the culture that is around you.

我认为对于任何经理和任何领导者来说，这也包括 ICPM，但对于任何经理、任何领导者来说，你的表现确实会决定你周围的文化。

David Singleton: I try very hard to show up very consistently every day, even though there will very frequently be things that are going wrong and are bad and are hard.

大卫·辛格尔顿（David Singleton）：我每天都非常努力地表现得始终如一，尽管经常会出现问题、糟糕和困难的事情。

It's actually very important to show up quite consistently.

事实上，保持一致的表现非常重要。

Certainly, in line with all the values that we have and the culture that we want to set, in order to really kind of model that at scale.

当然，这符合我们拥有的所有价值观和我们想要设定的文化，以便真正大规模地建立模型。

Different days, that can be easier and harder.

不同的日子，可能会更容易，也可能更困难。

The final thing is, I think it's quite important to manage your own energy.

最后一点是，我认为管理好自己的精力是非常重要的。

David Singleton: There are some tasks that I do that are maybe not the most important thing, but I know that I get a lot of joy and energy from them, and then that carries over into the other stuff that also needs to get done.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我所做的一些任务可能不是最重要的事情，但我知道我从它们中获得了很多快乐和能量，然后这会延续到其他也需要完成的事情中。

Lenny: Just two more questions before we get to our very exciting lightning round.

莱尼：在我们进入非常激动人心的闪电回合之前，还有两个问题。

One is just I feel like Stripe is incredibly good at planning and organizing, prioritizing.

一是我觉得 Stripe 非常擅长规划、组织和确定优先级。

I know every inside, it's always not as beautiful as it may seem on the outside, but what have you learned?

我知道每一个里面，它总是不像外表看起来那么美丽，但是你学到了什么？

What has Stripe learned about planning and prioritizing that you think other companies might be missing?

Stripe 在规划和优先级方面学到了哪些您认为其他公司可能缺少的知识？

David Singleton: Yeah.

大卫·辛格尔顿：是的。

Well it's funny you say that.

嗯，你这么说很有趣。

I would say planning inside of Stripe does not get the highest net promoter score that you might imagine.

我想说的是，在 Stripe 内部进行规划并不会获得您想象中的最高净推荐值。

I do think it is actually quite effective.

我确实认为这实际上非常有效。

By the way, the reason I think that planning, the way we do planning at Stripe doesn't always get the best internal rep is we have grown very rapidly.

顺便说一句，我认为我们在 Stripe 进行规划的方式并不总能获得最佳内部代表的原因是我们发展得非常快。

That means that almost every time we come back around to planning, we actually, and this is kind of a theme at Stripe, we think about a lot of the ways that we work internally from First principles.

这意味着几乎每次我们回到规划时，实际上，这也是 Stripe 的一个主题，我们会根据第一原则思考我们内部工作的很多方式。

David Singleton: We will tend not to by default just pick a system off of the shelf that some other company has run or that we've used before.

David Singleton：默认情况下，我们不会倾向于直接选择其他公司已经运行或我们以前使用过的现成系统。

We'll think hard, considering what we are doing for our users.

我们会认真思考，考虑我们为用户所做的事情。

How should we do this?

我们应该怎样做呢？

When we're thinking even first principles, we'll often go out and talk to a lot of other companies, and try to learn from their experience.

当我们思考首要原则时，我们经常会出去与许多其他公司交谈，并尝试从他们的经验中学习。

It's actually something I've really appreciated and enjoyed at Stripe.

这实际上是我在 Stripe 非常欣赏和享受的事情。

A lot of the learning I've done here has come not only from folks that are at the company, but also talking to a bunch of folks that we have the privilege to work closely with because their business is building on Stripe, or they're a similar stage of scale to us.

我在这里学到的很多东西不仅来自公司内部的人员，还来自与我们有幸密切合作的一群人的交谈，因为他们的业务是建立在 Stripe 上的，或者他们的规模与我们相似。

David Singleton: A good example of this is Amazon.

David Singleton：亚马逊就是一个很好的例子。

Amazon is a Stripe user.

亚马逊是 Stripe 用户。

Because we work with them, in my first couple of weeks at Stripe, I was actually able to meet with Charlie Bell, who then ran operations at Stripe.

因为我们与他们合作，在我加入 Stripe 的头几周，我实际上能够见到 Charlie Bell，他后来负责 Stripe 的运营。

A lot of the things that, sorry, who then ran operations at Amazon.

抱歉，很多事情都是后来在亚马逊运营的。

A lot of the things that we actually now do at Stripe have come from learning from that experience.

我们现在在 Stripe 所做的很多事情都是从那次经历中学习的。

It wasn't just, oh yeah, we'll take this thing cause Amazon did it, talk to him.

这不仅仅是，哦，是的，我们会接受这件事，因为亚马逊做到了，与他交谈。

Lots of other companies hard to learn.

很多其他公司很难学习。

The point is we care about learning from others and then we apply it.

关键是我们关心向他人学习，然后应用它。

David Singleton: Bringing this back to planning, because we tend to think a lot from first principles and we've been growing rapidly.

大卫·辛格尔顿（David Singleton）：将其带回规划中，因为我们倾向于从首要原则出发思考很多问题，而且我们一直在快速发展。

The right planning process for us as a company has actually changed quite dramatically and quite significantly over the years.

多年来，我们作为一家公司的正确规划流程实际上已经发生了巨大的变化。

We do planning in a relatively deep way once a year, and then in a slightly lighter way halfway through the year.

我们每年做一次比较深入的规划，然后到了中间再做一个稍微轻松一点的规划。

If you imagine doing someone once a year and you're growing rapidly, you're going to want to revisit exactly how you do it.

如果你想象每年为某人做一次并且你正在快速成长，你就会想重新审视你是如何做的。

I think for anyone who has the privilege of running the same planning process again and again, you can really iterate it and tune it.

我认为，对于任何有幸一次又一次运行相同规划流程的人来说，您都可以真正对其进行迭代和调整。

We've had to make more deliberate and more sweeping changes as we've gone along.

随着我们的发展，我们必须做出更深思熟虑、更彻底的改变。

There are a couple things at the core of how we do this.

我们如何做到这一点的核心有几件事。

One is it's really important to focus on who are the users that we are seeking to serve for any given product area that we're working in?

一是关注我们正在工作的任何给定产品领域寻求服务的用户是谁真的很重要？

Kind of holding their needs front and center in your plans is important.

在你的计划中将他们的需求放在首位很重要。

Again, at Stripe, we do something that is, it's not unconventional, but it's not the most common practice in the industry, which is we work very hard to serve companies from the very, very small.

同样，在 Stripe，我们所做的事情并不是非常规的，但也不是行业中最常见的做法，即我们非常努力地为非常非常小的公司提供服务。

The folks that are literally just starting their company on Stripe, with Stripe Atlas, all the way up to multinational, 10 Fortune five companies, fortune one companies, I guess.

我猜，这些人实际上刚刚在 Stripe 上创办自己的公司，通过 Stripe Atlas，一直到跨国公司、10 家《财富》五强公司、《财富》第一家公司。

David Singleton: There's a very different set of user needs across those businesses.

David Singleton：这些企业的用户需求非常不同。

For any given area, it's very important for each team to be clear about who are they serving.

对于任何特定区域，每个团队都必须清楚他们为谁服务，这一点非常重要。

Then we run a kind of inverted W process.

然后我们运行一种倒置的 W 过程。

We typically have teams surface what their immediate thoughts are on the most important things to do.

我们通常会让团队表达他们对最重要的事情的直接想法。

We'll then have a group of product leaders get together and try to synthesize the most important parts of that into a kind of draft overall company strategy, and then take that back down to teams to figure out, "Well, if that's where we're making a big push, should that tweak my plans at all?"

然后，我们将让一组产品负责人聚在一起，尝试将其中最重要的部分综合成一种公司总体战略草案，然后将其带回给团队来弄清楚，“好吧，如果这是我们大力推动的领域，是否应该调整我的计划？”

David Singleton: We bring it back up for synthesis, and then back down for everyone to really distribute with a lot of context within their orgs.

David Singleton：我们将其重新进行综合，然后将其重新放回，以便每个人在其组织内根据大量上下文进行真正的分发。

We find that at our current scale, very, very effective.

我们发现，以我们目前的规模来看，这非常非常有效。

Lenny: I haven't mentioned this yet, but I actually, Stripe for my newsletter, I check the app many times a day, so I'm probably in the Fortune 1 million, somewhere in that.

Lenny：我还没有提到这一点，但实际上，我的时事通讯中的 Stripe，我每天都会多次查看该应用程序，所以我可能是财富 100 万富翁之一。

David Singleton: Do you have any feedback?

大卫·辛格尔顿：你有什么反馈吗？

Genuinely, I'd love to hear your Stripe feedback.

说实话，我很想听听您对 Stripe 的反馈。

Lenny: It's great.

莱尼： 太棒了。

The app tells me that I'm ...

该应用程序告诉我，我...

David Singleton: No, no, don't tell us it's great.

大卫·辛格尔顿：不，不，不要告诉我们这很棒。

What bugs you?

什么让你烦恼？

Lenny: Well, it's interesting for churn, for cohort retention, which I care a lot about for the newsletter, I actually use a different tool that feels like gives me better, a table of per cohort, how many people are still around?

Lenny：嗯，对于流失率和群组保留来说很有趣，我在时事通讯中非常关心这一点，实际上我使用了一种不同的工具，感觉可以给我带来更好的效果，每个群组都有一张表，还有多少人在身边？

There's an opportunity to have better cohort retention metrics.

有机会获得更好的群组保留指标。

David Singleton: Cool.

大卫·辛格尔顿：酷。

Okay.

好的。

Well, maybe we can email about that.

好吧，也许我们可以通过电子邮件讨论此事。

Quite genuinely at Stripe, anytime we talk to a Stripe user, we are always looking for feedback that goes for any occasion.

说实话，在 Stripe，每当我们与 Stripe 用户交谈时，我们总是在寻找适合任何场合的反馈。

We often bring users into the beginning of our Friday fireside I already mentioned, and we're always asking them for their feedback and we really, really want to act on it.

我们经常把用户带入我已经提到过的周五炉边活动的开始，我们总是询问他们的反馈，我们真的非常想采取行动。

Lenny: Well, I wish I had more.

莱尼：嗯，我希望能有更多。

It's works great.

效果很好啊

Final question, Stripe Session's coming up, it's going to happen before this comes out.

最后一个问题，Stripe Session 即将到来，它将在此之前发生。

What should folks be watching for?

人们应该注意什么？

What's next for Stripe?

Stripe 的下一步是什么？

David Singleton: We've touched on a few of the things that we're sharing broadly for the first time at Stripe Sessions on this call already.

David Singleton：我们已经在这次电话会议上谈到了我们在 Stripe Sessions 上首次广泛分享的一些内容。

Per our development process, these have been in the hands of some Stripe users for a significant amount of time and we've really kind of crafted them with them.

根据我们的开发过程，这些已经在一些 Stripe 用户手中掌握了相当长的时间，我们确实是与他们一起制作了它们。

I'm super excited about a number of the things that we're going to be talking about next week.

我对我们下周要讨论的一些事情感到非常兴奋。

One is I've mentioned our revenue and financial automation suite.

一是我提到了我们的收入和财务自动化套件。

David Singleton: We've really been crafting the features there for some time, and really nice example actually of how building closely with users really, really helps build things at scale.

David Singleton：我们确实已经在那里制作功能有一段时间了，这确实是一个很好的例子，说明与用户密切合作如何真正帮助大规模构建事物。

We've a set of features that we work with companies like Atlassian and CloudFlare to enable their businesses on Stripe Billing.

我们与 Atlassian 和 CloudFlare 等公司合作提供了一系列功能，使他们的业务能够在 Stripe Billing 上运行。

They have relatively complex models.

他们有相对复杂的模型。

For instance, you might sign a deal where it has a discount in the first year, and then there's another product that's being used in the second year, and then something else happens in the third year.

例如，您可能会签署一项协议，其中第一年有折扣，然后第二年使用另一种产品，然后第三年发生其他情况。

You can now model all of that in Stripe Billing, and we're going to be showing how you can do that in the dashboard at Stripe Sessions next week.

您现在可以在 Stripe Billing 中对所有这些进行建模，我们将在下周的 Stripe Sessions 的仪表板中展示如何做到这一点。

David Singleton: It's now going into general availability for all Stripe users.

David Singleton：现在所有 Stripe 用户都可以使用它。

It's giving all of our users from the very small to the very large, the same power that the world's best SAS platform might have.

它为我们所有的用户（无论规模大小）提供了与世界上最好的 SAS 平台相同的能力。

Excited about that.

对此感到兴奋。

It's also the case that we didn't talk about it in this call, Stripe Connect is our product for platforms of marketplaces.

我们在这次电话会议中也没有讨论这一点，Stripe Connect 是我们针对市场平台的产品。

If I may actually just take one second, it's a really good example of how focusing on the needs of our users in one area took us into a really valuable space to solve for many users in other areas.

如果我真的可以花一点时间，这是一个很好的例子，说明了专注于某一领域用户的需求如何让我们进入一个非常有价值的空间，为其他领域的许多用户提供解决方案。

David Singleton: The ideas behind Stripe Connect came from working with companies like Lyft and Shopify.

David Singleton：Stripe Connect 背后的想法来自于与 Lyft 和 Shopify 等公司的合作。

In the very early days, they were using Stripe for pay-ins, but we realized, "Oh, these companies are operating these multi-sided marketplaces, and there's a ton of heavy lifting you have to do to make that work really well." We have to have a bunch of regulatory licenses in place, but also there's a lot that you need to do to actually make the money move and kind of account for it in the right way.

在很早的时候，他们使用 Stripe 进行支付，但我们意识到，“哦，这些公司正在运营这些多边市场，你必须做大量的繁重工作才能使其真正发挥作用。”我们必须拥有大量监管许可证，但还需要做很多事情才能真正使资金流动并以正确的方式对其进行核算。

Connect is our product for platforms and marketplaces.

Connect 是我们针对平台和市场的产品。

David Singleton: One of the things that we've done over the course of the last year or so is actually taken a lot of the features that we've built in the Stripe Dashboard to help folks manage things like gathering the right documents from their users, or handling refunds and so forth.

David Singleton：我们在过去一年左右所做的事情之一实际上是采用了我们在 Stripe Dashboard 中构建的许多功能来帮助人们管理诸如从用户那里收集正确的文档或处理退款等事务。

We've actually made them available as embed-able UI components that are also completely customizable, which these platforms can take and put inside their own dashboards so they can present a lot of the power that Stripe is enabling to their customers, without having to do a ton of engineering work themselves.

实际上，我们已经将它们作为可嵌入的 UI 组件提供，这些组件也是完全可定制的，这些平台可以将其放入自己的仪表板中，这样它们就可以向客户展示 Stripe 所提供的大量功能，而无需自己做大量的工程工作。

David Singleton: Look, generating engineering leverage for our customers is just very frequently the main thing that we can do to help their businesses.

David Singleton：看，为我们的客户创造工程影响力通常是我们为帮助他们的业务所能做的主要事情。

We're going to show a bunch of that stuff next week, which I'm excited about.

下周我们将展示很多这样的东西，我对此感到很兴奋。

Then finally, we touched on it already, but it'll be great to show some of the innovation we've had around AI and large language models.

最后，我们已经谈到了它，但如果能展示我们在人工智能和大型语言模型方面的一些创新，那就太好了。

Again, I think it's going to make a big impact over the coming years.

我再次认为这将在未来几年产生重大影响。

Lenny: Well, with that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round.

莱尼：好了，我们已经进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。

First question, what are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people?

第一个问题，您向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？

David Singleton: Most means that you have to integrate under the curve, so I'd say High Output Management by Andy Grove is definitely the book that I've recommended the most.

David Singleton：大多数意味着你必须在曲线下进行整合，所以我想说 Andy Grove 的《高产出管理》绝对是我推荐最多的书。

It was a book that really opened my eyes to how to get the most out of teams over the whole course of my career.

这本书真正让我大开眼界，让我了解了如何在我的整个职业生涯中充分利用团队。

Definitely check that out if you haven't read it already.

如果您还没有读过，请务必检查一下。

Recently, we talked about being meticulous in our craft.

最近，我们谈到了对工艺的一丝不苟。

I've really enjoyed Build by Tony Fidel.

我真的很喜欢托尼·菲德尔的《Build》。

Tony worked on the iPod, and then the iPhone, and then was the founder of Nest.

托尼先后开发了 iPod、iPhone，最后成为 Nest 的创始人。

David Singleton: He puts a tremendous amount of thought into his users and how to build really great crafted experiences.

David Singleton：他对用户以及如何打造真正出色的精心设计的体验投入了大量的思考。

I had the privilege of working with him very briefly at Google, but I thought the book was excellent in terms of helping provide some practical pointers there.

我有幸在谷歌与他进行过短暂的合作，但我认为这本书在帮助提供一些实用的指导方面非常出色。

Then I would be remiss if I did not mention Claire Hughes Johnson's book, Skilling People.

如果我没有提到克莱尔·休斯·约翰逊的书《技能人才》，那就是我的失职。

Even though it only just came out, I've recommended it a lot.

虽然才刚出来，但是我已经推荐过很多次了。

There's actually some stuff in here where I'm sharing some techniques that we've used at Stripe, so you might enjoy that.

实际上，我在这里分享了一些我们在 Stripe 使用过的技术，所以您可能会喜欢。

Then if I may share one ...

那么如果我可以分享一个...

Lenny: ...

莱尼：……

Supports my laptop on here, and ...

在这里支持我的笔记本电脑，并且...

Lenny: I've had her on the podcast.

莱尼：我让她上了播客。

I've read, I've skimmed it as much as I can.

我读过，我尽可能地浏览过。

Lenny: I'm not building a business right now.

莱尼：我现在不打算创业。

She was in the top 10 bestseller list on the Wall Street Journal, I saw.

我看到她在《华尔街日报》畅销书排行榜上名列前十。

David Singleton: That's right, that's right.

大卫·辛格尔顿：没错，没错。

It has a ton of very practical advice, so I recommend that one a lot.

它有很多非常实用的建议，所以我经常推荐这个。

Lenny: What's a ,favorite recent movie or TV show?

莱尼：最近最喜欢的电影或电视节目是什么？

David Singleton: Okay, I'm going to cheat here because I'm going to interpret that as what's the best video content you've seen recently?

David Singleton：好吧，我要在这里作弊，因为我要把它解释为你最近看过的最好的视频内容是什么？

David Singleton: I have fallen in love with YouTube for learning about the really fast moving AI space.

David Singleton：我爱上了 YouTube，因为它可以让我了解快速发展的人工智能领域。

It has been remarkably valuable, and Andre Carpassi has a bunch of really good seminars, but not just that.

它非常有价值，安德烈·卡帕西举办了很多非常好的研讨会，但不仅如此。

Across the whole spectrum, I think there's just so much gold on YouTube if you want to learn a new skill these days.

纵观整个领域，我认为如果你现在想学习一项新技能，YouTube 上有很多黄金资源。

Lenny: Is that the channel you recommend, Andre Carpassi's channel?

莱尼：这是您推荐的频道吗，安德烈·卡帕西的频道？

David Singleton: His channel is awesome if you want to learn about AI.

David Singleton：如果你想了解人工智能，他的频道非常棒。

David Singleton: That's right.

大卫·辛格尔顿：没错。

I believe recently, gone to OpenAI, but was doing this kind of on his own for a few months and has produced a bunch of great YouTube content.

我相信最近去了 OpenAI，但他自己做了几个月，并制作了一堆很棒的 YouTube 内容。

Lenny: Great pick.

莱尼：很棒的选择。

Most people pick White Lotus or something like that and you go with a AI YouTube channel.

大多数人都会选择“白莲花”或类似的东西，然后选择人工智能 YouTube 频道。

I love it.

我喜欢它。

What's a favorite interview question you like to ask?

您最喜欢问的面试问题是什么？

David Singleton: Okay, well, actually, you will find some recommended interview questions from me in this book.

大卫·辛格尔顿：好吧，事实上，你会在本书中找到我推荐的一些面试问题。

One I really like actually, because it sounds like a softball and then it's not, is I often ask people, especially for leadership hiring, which leader that they've worked with they admire most and why.

事实上，我真的很喜欢一个问题，因为这听起来像垒球，但事实并非如此，我经常问人们，尤其是领导力招聘方面，他们最钦佩与哪位领导者共事以及为什么。

It sounds like a softball, but it actually tells you a lot about what this person really cares about in leadership.

这听起来像是一个垒球，但它实际上告诉你很多关于这个人在领导力方面真正关心的是什么。

David Singleton: Sometimes, I'll follow up and ask, "How does that manifest in your own leadership style?" Then, and this I think is really quite telling, I always ask folks, I'm going to spoil my interview question, I'm revealing it in your podcast, but I always ask folks, "Okay, so imagine you were their manager.

大卫·辛格尔顿：有时，我会跟进并问：“这在您自己的领导风格中有何体现？”然后，我认为这真的很有说服力，我总是问人们，我会破坏我的面试问题，我会在你的播客中透露它，但我总是问人们，“好吧，想象一下你是他们的经理。

Tell me the performance review or the development feedback you'd give them to help them be more effective." I think everyone always has things that they could improve, certainly myself included.

告诉我你会给他们的绩效评估或发展反馈，以帮助他们提高效率。”我认为每个人总有可以改进的地方，当然包括我自己。

David Singleton: Folks' ability to think critically about someone that they kind of admire or lionize, and how they could actually be more effective, I find quite telling.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我认为人们能够批判性地思考他们所钦佩或崇拜的人，以及他们如何才能真正变得更有效，这很能说明问题。

Lenny: What are some favorite products you've recently discovered that you love?

莱尼：您最近发现哪些最喜欢的产品？

David Singleton: The products that I have recently discovered and definitely love is Mid-Journey, also building the business side of their business on Stripe.

David Singleton：我最近发现并且非常喜欢的产品是 Mid-Journey，它也在 Stripe 上构建了他们业务的业务部分。

For folks who don't know, Mid-Journey is an AI tool for generating images using stable diffusion, but it's really pretty awesome.

对于那些不知道的人来说，Mid-Journey 是一个使用稳定扩散生成图像的 AI 工具，但它确实非常棒。

I've been using it a lot with my daughter.

我和我女儿经常使用它。

We'll come up with stories and we'll generate beautiful looking images with Mid-Journey, and then she'll drop them into books and she'll write the pros.

我们会想出故事，并通过 Mid-Journey 生成漂亮的图像，然后她会把它们写进书里，然后她会写出专业人士的作品。

The reason I think it's pretty cool is I was very surprised and skeptical at its UI to begin with, because its UI is Discord.

我认为它很酷的原因是我一开始就对它的 UI 感到非常惊讶和怀疑，因为它的 UI 是 Discord。

David Singleton: They drop you into Discord and you are in a channel where you have to prompt the artificial intelligence.

David Singleton：他们将你带入 Discord，而你处于一个必须提示人工智能的频道。

I find it very confusing at the beginning.

一开始我觉得很混乱。

It's like, this is not the right interface for this tool, but actually, it's very smart because you learn from other people on Discord, how they're prompting the AI in order to get the kind of results that they're looking for.

就好像，这不是这个工具的正确界面，但实际上，它非常智能，因为你可以向 Discord 上的其他人学习，了解他们如何提示人工智能以获得他们正在寻找的结果。

I find that made it possible for me to get a lot more power and value out of the tool.

我发现这使我能够从该工具中获得更多的功能和价值。

I definitely subscribe to Mid-Journey and have had a lot of fun playing with it.

我绝对订阅了 Mid-Journey 并且玩得很开心。

Lenny: What's your favorite image that you've created, if there's one that comes to mind?

莱尼：如果有的话，你最喜欢自己创作的形象是什么？

David Singleton: We made a cover for a book that my daughter is writing.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我们为我女儿正在写的一本书做了封面。

My daughter is nine years old by the way, so we're talking here, good children's stories.

顺便说一下，我女儿九岁了，所以我们在这里谈论的是好的儿童故事。

She made an image of a wolf wearing a purple velvet cloak, sitting in front of a campfire with a shack in a forest and a nebula behind.

她画了一只穿着紫色天鹅绒斗篷的狼，坐在篝火前，森林里有一个小屋，后面是星云。

It's beautiful.

很美丽。

We actually built that with by combining two images, the wolf and the shack.

实际上，我们通过组合狼和小屋这两个图像来构建它。

Actually getting the wolf out of one image and putting it onto the other, we used the new Apple image segmentation copy and paste thing, which worked great.

实际上，我们使用了新的 Apple 图像分割复制和粘贴功能，将狼从一张图像中取出并放到另一张图像上，效果非常好。

It's also fun combining these AI tools, but that one has been pretty good.

结合这些人工智能工具也很有趣，但那个已经相当不错了。

Lenny: What a world.

莱尼：这真是一个世界啊。

Two final questions.

最后两个问题。

What's something relatively minor you've changed in your product development process that has had a tremendous impact on your ability to execute as a team?

您在产品开发过程中进行了哪些相对较小的更改，但对您作为团队的执行能力产生了巨大影响？

David Singleton: We talked a bit or about this already, auto deploys and that auto merge feature, but probably the most profound thing is we put a little button in every single developer tool at Stripe.

David Singleton：我们已经讨论过一些自动部署和自动合并功能，但可能最深刻的事情是我们在 Stripe 的每个开发人员工具中都放置了一个小按钮。

It is an emoji of an octopus that is crying.

这是一个正在哭泣的章鱼的表情符号。

If you click it, it makes it possible to just type in what's gone wrong.

如果您单击它，则可以直接输入出现的问题。

Then we have our developer productivity team read all of those and use them to prioritize what they're up to.

然后，我们让我们的开发人员生产力团队阅读所有这些内容，并使用它们来确定他们要做的事情的优先级。

Just like frictionless problem recording turned out to be really valuable.

就像无摩擦的问题记录被证明是非常有价值的一样。

We call those paper cuts.

我们称之为剪纸。

Lenny: Who else from Stripe or Former Stripe should I have on the podcast is my final lightning round question?

Lenny：我最后的闪电轮问题是我还应该在播客上邀请来自 Stripe 或前 Stripe 的谁吗？

David Singleton: Two Stripes I think you should have on.

大卫·辛格尔顿：我认为你应该穿两条条纹。

Emily Sands is our chief economist and leads our information org.

艾米莉·桑兹 (Emily Sands) 是我们的首席经济学家，领导我们的信息组织。

I think includes data science, but also the teams that build all of our, a lot of our internal tools.

我认为包括数据科学，也包括构建我们所有内部工具的团队。

I think Emily just has great frameworks for thinking about how to translate what's really going on for users into great sets of metrics that you can then use to get the right action happening.

我认为艾米丽有很好的框架来思考如何将用户真正发生的事情转化为一组伟大的指标，然后你可以使用这些指标来采取正确的行动。

As I described before, that's super important.

正如我之前所描述的，这非常重要。

David Singleton: The second person would be Michelle Boo.

大卫·辛格尔顿（David Singleton）：第二个人是米歇尔·布（Michelle Boo）。

Michelle joins Stripe as an engineer in the very, very early days, and has been with us for obviously a long time.

Michelle 在很早的时候就作为工程师加入了 Stripe，而且显然已经和我们在一起很长时间了。

She's really our principal product design architect in terms of the actual abstractions that we use to model our users' businesses on Stripe.

就我们用来在 Stripe 上为用户业务建模的实际抽象而言，她确实是我们的首席产品设计架构师。

I think she has very deep insight into how to think about getting those things right.

我认为她对如何正确对待这些事情有着非常深刻的洞察力。

I think you would enjoy talking.

我想你会喜欢说话的。

Lenny: David, I so appreciate you making time for this, especially during this hectic period ahead of sessions.

莱尼：大卫，我非常感谢你抽出时间来做这件事，尤其是在会议前的忙碌时期。

Two final questions.

最后两个问题。

Where can folks find me online if they want to reach out, maybe learn more about what you're up to you, and then how can listeners be useful to you?

如果人们想联系我，可以在哪里找到我，也许更多地了解你在做什么，然后听众如何对你有用？

David Singleton: Cool.

大卫·辛格尔顿：酷。

Okay.

好的。

Well, I am @DPS on Twitter.

好吧，我在 Twitter 上是@DPS。

That is definitely the best place to get hold of me, but you can also check right my personal blog at blog.singleton.io.

这绝对是联系我的最佳地点，但您也可以查看我的个人博客：blog.singleton.io。

Useful, honestly, please send me Stripe feedback.

说实话，有用，请向我发送 Stripe 反馈。

You can do that on Twitter.

你可以在 Twitter 上做到这一点。

You can discover my email address on my blog as well.

您也可以在我的博客上找到我的电子邮件地址。

I would love to hear how we could serve you better.

我很想听听我们如何可以更好地为您服务。

Lenny: David, thank you again for being here.

莱尼：大卫，再次感谢你来到这里。

David Singleton: Thank you.

大卫·辛格尔顿：谢谢。

It was a lot of fun, Lenny.

这很有趣，莱尼。

Lenny: Same.

莱尼：一样。

Bye, everyone.

再见，大家。

Thank you so much for listening.

非常感谢您的聆听。

If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcast、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。

Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review, as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.

另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。

You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at LennysPodcast.com.

您可以在 LennysPodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。

See you in the next episode.

下一集见。