Launching and growing a podcast | Chris Hutchins (All the Hacks, Wealthfront, Google)
Chris Hutchins: Yes, there are four million podcasts.
克里斯·哈钦斯：是的，有四百万个播客。
However, there are only about 150,000 podcasts that have had 10 episodes and have published in the last 10 days.
然而，只有大约 150,000 个播客有 10 集并在过去 10 天内发布。
So the easiest way to be in that top 5% ish.
这是进入前 5% 的最简单方法。
I don't know what the math there is.
我不知道这里面有什么数学原理。
About 3%, 4% is to just stick to it.
大概3%、4%就是坚持下去。
Like if you just do an episode a week for 10 weeks, you're now in the top 4% of all podcasts that anyone has created.
就像如果您每周只制作一集，连续 10 周，那么您现在已经跻身于任何人创建的所有播客的前 4% 之列。
Lenny: Welcome to Lenny's Podcast.
莱尼：欢迎来到莱尼的播客。
I'm Lenny and my goal here is to help you get better at the craft of building and growing products.
我是莱尼，我的目标是帮助您更好地构建和种植产品。
Today my guest is Chris Hutchins.
今天我的嘉宾是克里斯·哈钦斯。
Chris is not only a former product manager, founder and investor, he just this month went full-time on his podcast and the independent creator path.
克里斯不仅是前产品经理、创始人和投资者，他本月刚刚开始全职从事播客和独立创作者的道路。
When I was looking for advice on how to build a podcast, Chris shared this awesome deck with a ton of great advice that he's built throughout his journey, and so I thought it'd be fun to spend an episode talking about all the things that you should know about launching and growing a podcast.
当我正在寻找有关如何构建播客的建议时，克里斯分享了这个很棒的平台，其中包含他在整个旅程中提出的大量建议，因此我认为花一集的时间来讨论关于启动和发展播客应该了解的所有事情会很有趣。
Chris's podcast is called All the Hacks, covers all the ways to financially optimize your life, and it's one of the biggest business podcasts in the world.
克里斯的播客名为“All the Hacks”，涵盖了在财务上优化生活的所有方法，它是世界上最大的商业播客之一。
Chris has also been on the Tim Ferris Show actually, interviewing Tim Ferris.
事实上，克里斯还参加了蒂姆·费里斯秀，采访了蒂姆·费里斯。
Lenny: He's also head of new product strategy at Wealthfront where he took some big, bold bets within the company, which we talk about.
Lenny：他还是 Wealthfront 的新产品战略主管，他在公司内部进行了一些大胆的大赌注，我们正在谈论这一点。
Chris is awesome and I am excited for you to learn from him.
克里斯很棒，我很高兴你能向他学习。
I bring you Chris Hutchins after a short word from our wonderful sponsors.
在我们精彩的赞助商简短发言后，我为您带来了克里斯·哈钦斯。
This episode is brought to you by Notion.
本集由 Notion 为您带来。
If you haven't heard of Notion, where have you been?
如果您还没有听说过 Notion，那么您去过哪里？
I use Notion to coordinate this very podcast, including my content calendar, my sponsors, and prepping guests for launch of each episode.
我使用 Notion 来协调这个播客，包括我的内容日历、我的赞助商以及为每集发布准备嘉宾。
Notion is an all-in-one team collaboration tool that combines note-taking, document sharing, wikis, project management, and much more into one space that's simple, powerful and beautifully designed.
Notion 是一款一体化团队协作工具，它将笔记记录、文档共享、wiki、项目管理等功能结合到一个简单、强大且设计精美的空间中。
And not only does it allow you to be more efficient in your work life, but you can easily transition to using it in your personal life, which is another feature that truly sets Notion apart.
它不仅可以让您在工作生活中更有效率，而且您可以轻松过渡到在个人生活中使用它，这是真正使 Notion 与众不同的另一个功能。
Lenny: The other day I started a home project and immediately opened up Notion to help me organize it all, learn more and get started for free at notion.com/lennyspod, take the first step towards an organized happy team today, again at notion.com/lennyspod.
Lenny：有一天，我开始了一个家庭项目，并立即打开 Notion 来帮助我组织这一切，了解更多信息并在 notion.com/lennyspod 免费开始，今天再次在 notion.com/lennyspod 迈向有组织的快乐团队的第一步。
This episode is brought to you by Vanta, helping you streamline your security compliance to accelerate growth.
本集由 Vanta 为您带来，帮助您简化安全合规性以加速增长。
If your business stores any data in the cloud, then you've likely been asked or you going to be asked about your SOC 2 compliance.
如果您的企业在云中存储任何数据，那么您可能会被询问或将被询问有关 SOC 2 合规性的问题。
SOC 2 is a way to prove your company's taking proper security measures to protect customer data and builds trust with customers and partners, especially those with serious security requirements.
SOC 2 是一种证明您的公司采取了适当的安全措施来保护客户数据并与客户和合作伙伴（尤其是那些有严格安全要求的客户和合作伙伴）建立信任的方法。
Also, if you want to sell to the enterprise, proving security is essential.
此外，如果你想向企业销售产品，证明安全性至关重要。
SOC 2 can either open the door for bigger and better deals or it can put your business on hold.
SOC 2 可以为更大、更好的交易打开大门，也可以让您的业务暂停。
If you don't have a SOC 2, there's a good chance you won't even get a seat at the table.
如果您没有 SOC 2，您很可能甚至无法获得席位。
Lenny: Beginning a SOC 2 report can be a huge burden, especially for startups.
Lenny：开始 SOC 2 报告可能是一个巨大的负担，尤其是对于初创公司而言。
It's time consuming, tedious and expensive.
这是耗时、乏味且昂贵的。
Enter Vanta, over 3000 fast growing companies use Vanta to automate up to 90% of the work involved with SOC 2.
进入 Vanta，超过 3000 家快速发展的公司使用 Vanta 自动化 SOC 2 涉及的高达 90% 的工作。
Vanta can get you ready for security audits in weeks instead of months, less than a third of the time that it usually takes.
Vanta 可以让您在几周而不是几个月内为安全审核做好准备，不到通常所需时间的三分之一。
For a limited time, Lenny's Podcast listeners get $1,000 off Vanta.
在有限的时间内，Lenny's Podcast 听众可享受 Vanta 1,000 美元优惠。
Just go to vanta.com/lenny, that's V-A-N-T-A.com/lenny to learn more and to claim your discount.
只需访问vanta.com/lenny（即 V-A-N-T-A.com/lenny）即可了解更多信息并申请折扣。
Get started today.
今天就开始吧。
Chris, welcome to the podcast.
克里斯，欢迎来到播客。
Chris Hutchins: Thanks for having me.
克里斯·哈钦斯：谢谢你邀请我。
I'm excited.
我很兴奋。
Lenny: This is going to be a pretty unique episode, I think.
莱尼：我认为这将是一个非常独特的剧集。
You're a product manager and we're going to talk about some of the things you've learned being a PM on some really killer products.
您是一名产品经理，我们将讨论您作为产品经理在一些真正杀手级产品上学到的一些东西。
But what I want to spend most of our time on is talking about how to launch a podcast.
但我想花大部分时间讨论如何推出播客。
You've built one of the most popular, biggest business podcasts in just like a year and a half.
您在短短一年半的时间里就创建了最受欢迎、最大的商业播客之一。
You've taught me some stuff, you've helped other people with their podcast and so I just thought it'd be really helpful just to talk about just the skill of building a podcast and all the things you should know.
你教了我一些东西，你帮助了其他人的播客，所以我认为仅仅谈论构建播客的技巧以及你应该知道的所有事情就会非常有帮助。
How does that sound?
听起来怎么样？
Chris Hutchins: Sounds great.
克里斯·哈钦斯：听起来很棒。
You just did a episode about growing a newsletter business, which I was like, "This is awesome because I have a newsletter and I want it to be bigger." And I think anyone that's has knowledge to share.
你刚刚做了一集关于发展时事通讯业务的节目，我当时想，“这太棒了，因为我有一份时事通讯，我希望它变得更大。”我认为任何有知识的人都可以分享。
I talked to a PM yesterday who was like, "Oh, I've got all these product ideas.
昨天我和一位产品经理聊过，他说：“哦，我已经有了所有这些产品创意。
Maybe I'll start a podcast." So totally, this is fun.
也许我会开始播客。”总的来说，这很有趣。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
That's exactly how I've been thinking about it.
这正是我一直在思考的。
First we did the newsletter and then podcast maybe the other things, I don't know what's left.
首先我们做了时事通讯，然后是播客，也许还有其他事情，我不知道还剩下什么。
Chris Hutchins: I don't know if you feel this way, but YouTube.
Chris Huchins：我不知道你是否有这种感觉，但是 YouTube。
I feel like just putting a podcast on YouTube isn't enough, I need to learn the skills of YouTube.
我觉得仅仅在 YouTube 上放播客还不够，我需要学习 YouTube 的技能。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
All right.
好的。
I got to get MrBeast on, that's the next goal.
我必须让野兽先生穿上，这是下一个目标。
To set a little foundation for folks, to give him a little sense of your background and some of the things you've done in your career.
为人们奠定一些基础，让他们了解你的背景以及你在职业生涯中所做的一些事情。
Can you just talk about some of the biggest things you've done in your career, which you've been up to and then what you're up to now and also about your podcast?
您能否谈谈您在职业生涯中做过的一些最重要的事情、您一直在做的事情以及您现在所做的事情以及您的播客？
Chris Hutchins: I'm kind of like a happenstance product person.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我有点像一个偶然的产品人员。
I basically really liked startups, but I didn't know what job I could have as a non-technical person.
我基本上非常喜欢初创公司，但我不知道作为一个非技术人员我可以从事什么工作。
And I joined my first startup probably 10 years ago and was like, "I will do anything." And they were like, "Do business development." But it turns out we didn't have anyone who also was doing products, so they were like, "What should we build that people will buy?" So I was like, "Well, I got to figure out how we turned this API we were building for location services into a product." Left that to join other startup with a few people we co-founded, did the Jack-of-all-trades role at a startup and then quickly were acquired by Google about a year in, and I went through the interview process and they were like, "You're a PM." And I was like, "Oh, great, what does a PM do?"
大约 10 年前，我加入了我的第一家初创公司，当时我就想，“我会做任何事情。”他们说，“做业务发展。”但事实证明，我们没有人也在做产品，所以他们会想，“我们应该构建什么人们会购买的东西？”所以我想，“好吧，我必须弄清楚如何将我们为位置服务构建的 API 转变为产品。”离开那家公司，与我们共同创立的几个人一起加入了其他初创公司，在一家初创公司中担任了万事通的角色，然后很快就被谷歌收购了大约一年，我经历了面试过程，他们说，“你是一名产品经理。”我当时想，“哦，太棒了，PM 是做什么的？”
Chris Hutchins: I didn't really totally know I'd never worked as a PM.
Chris Huchins：我并不完全知道我从未担任过产品经理。
Went through Google's kind of like week of training and got thrown into it and I think I've now learned with a lot of time that being a PM is awesome.
经历了谷歌类似一周的培训并投入其中，我想我现在已经花了很多时间了解到，成为一名产品经理是很棒的。
Being a PM at Google when we were working on Google Plus was not awesome.
当我们开发 Google Plus 时，在 Google 担任产品经理并不是一件了不起的事情。
Transitioned pretty quickly over to Google Ventures, did venture capital for three years, left to start another company trying to make financial advice more affordable, more accessible.
很快就转到了谷歌风投，做了三年的风险投资，然后离开去创办另一家公司，试图让财务建议更便宜、更容易获得。
Grew that for about two, three years and we ended up selling that company to Wealthfront where I ran a new product strategy.
发展了大约两三年，我们最终将该公司卖给了 Wealthfront，在那里我负责实施新的产品战略。
I most recently just left that role after three years and started going full-time on All the Hacks, which is my effort to help everyone upgrade their life, their money, their travel.
三年后，我最近刚刚离开这个职位，开始全职从事 All the Hacks，这是我努力帮助每个人改善他们的生活、金钱和旅行的方式。
I'm the spreadsheet for everything, optimizer and do all this research to try to help people live better, happier, wealthier, healthier lives.
我是一切的电子表格、优化者，并进行所有这些研究，试图帮助人们过上更好、更快乐、更富裕、更健康的生活。
And I have a podcast where we share all the hacks to do all of it.
我有一个播客，我们在其中分享完成这一切的所有技巧。
Lenny: Amazing.
莱尼：太棒了。
While we're on the podcast, we're going to dig into this stuff more.
当我们在播客上时，我们将进一步深入研究这些内容。
Where can folks, find it.
各位大佬哪里可以找到。
It's called All the Hacks.
这就是所谓的“所有黑客”。
Chris Hutchins: Anywhere you listen to podcasts right now, search All the Hacks, you can find it at allthehacks.com.
Chris Hutchins：无论您现在在哪里收听播客，搜索 All the Hacks，您都可以在 allthehacks.com 上找到它。
I'd be surprised if someone listening to this is more of a newsletter reader than a podcaster, but allthehacks.com/email is the newsletter too.
如果听这个的人更多的是新闻通讯读者而不是播客，我会感到惊讶，但 allthehacks.com/email 也是新闻通讯。
Lenny: Oh, newsletter.
莱尼：噢，时事通讯。
I love it.
我喜欢它。
All right, coming back to your last gig at Wealthfront, from what I understand your title was New product Strategy and Andy Rachleff, who was the CEO for a while, kind of legendary figure.
好吧，回到你在 Wealthfront 的最后一次工作，据我了解，你的头衔是新产品战略，而 Andy Rachleff 曾担任过一段时间的首席执行官，是一位传奇人物。
He co-founded Benchmark.
他是 Benchmark 的联合创始人。
He's just like this brain that...
他就像这个大脑一样...
I listen to him every time I hear him on a podcast.
每次我在播客上听到他的声音时，我都会听他的歌。
He basically pulled you into Wealthfront and specifically wanted you to focus on figuring out new business ideas, new business lines, new product lines within Wealthfront.
他基本上把你拉进了 Wealthfront，并特别希望你专注于在 Wealthfront 中找出新的商业理念、新的业务线、新的产品线。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Chris Hutchins: Yeah, so we had an engineer at the time who came up with this idea called Self-Driving Money.
克里斯·哈钦斯：是的，当时我们有一位工程师提出了这个名为“自动驾驶货币”的想法。
I was like, "Gosh, what if you could automate and optimize your entire financial life and you didn't have to rely on human financial advisors?" And we heard from our customers forever that they pay us to not talk to someone, our demographic doesn't want a bunch of humans in the mix.
我当时想，“天哪，如果你可以自动化和优化你的整个财务生活，而不必依赖人类财务顾问，那会怎么样？”我们一直从客户那里听说，他们付钱给我们是为了不与某人交谈，我们的人口不希望有一群人混在一起。
And so we had this idea but we didn't really know what it was.
所以我们有了这个想法，但我们并不真正知道它是什么。
So Andy was like, "Gosh, you've been spending time thinking about financial planning and software and as an entrepreneur, could you come in and help us build Self-Driving Money?"
所以安迪说，“天哪，你一直在花时间思考财务规划和软件，作为一名企业家，你能进来帮助我们建立自动驾驶货币吗？”
Chris Hutchins: And I was like, "What is it?" They're like, "Well, we got a bunch of ideas from an algorithmic standpoint about how to do it." But, "What exactly is it?" So it was thrown into, "Let's do a bunch of customer research, let's talk to a lot of people and let's try to come up with as audacious of an idea as we could for how you fulfill the promise of automating and optimizing someone's entire financial life to the point that they don't have to think about their finances on a daily basis and they know the right things are happening."
克里斯·哈钦斯：我当时想，“这是什么？”他们会说，“好吧，我们从算法的角度得到了很多关于如何做到这一点的想法。”但是，“到底是什么？”因此，我们的想法是：“让我们进行大量客户研究，与很多人交谈，并尝试提出一个尽可能大胆的想法，以实现如何实现自动化和优化某人整个财务生活的承诺，使他们不必每天考虑自己的财务状况，并且知道正在发生正确的事情。”
Lenny: When I think Self-Driving Money, I'm picturing money just driving around, like a Tesla.
莱尼：当我想到“自动驾驶金钱”时，我想象的是金钱就像特斯拉一样，可以到处行驶。
Money meets Tesla.
金钱遇见特斯拉。
Chris Hutchins: Yeah, the vision I had was what are the core pieces of financial life that are stressful?
克里斯·哈钦斯：是的，我的愿景是财务生活中哪些核心部分会带来压力？
It's like, "I got to move money, I got to contribute to these different accounts.
就像，“我必须转移资金，我必须向这些不同的账户捐款。
I want to make sure I have enough to pay my bills." And so what we ended up with was a product called Autopilot that would monitor your core banking account, whether it was a checking account at Wealthfront or not at Wealthfront or whether it was an account at Wealthfront.
我想确保我有足够的钱来支付账单。”因此，我们最终得到了一款名为 Autopilot 的产品，它可以监控您的核心银行账户，无论它是 Wealthfront 的支票账户还是不是 Wealthfront 的账户，或者它是否是 Wealthfront 的账户。
And we would say, "Let's make sure we leave a certain amount of money." And you could tell us that much.
我们会说：“让我们确保留下一定数量的钱。”你可以告诉我们这么多。
And then we would say, "Great." Now we had basically a series of things to fulfill with any excess.
然后我们会说：“太棒了。”现在我们基本上有一系列的事情要完成，任何多余的事情都没有。
It was like, "Let's make sure you keep this much as a three-month emergency fund, max out your Roth IRA.
就像是，“让我们确保你保留三个月的应急基金，最大限度地利用你的罗斯个人退休账户。
Let's make sure you max out your 529 for your kids and let's put the rest in your kind of taxable just brokerage account." And we would just periodically say, "Oh, you got extra money, let's sweep it over and do what we need to do with it so you don't have to think about it."
让我们确保你为你的孩子存满了 529 美元，然后把剩下的存入你的应税经纪账户。”我们只是定期说：“哦，你有多余的钱，让我们把它扫过去，做我们需要做的事情，这样你就不必考虑它了。”
Lenny: Can you talk about the impact this had on the company and also just how long of a endeavor this was within Wealthfront?
Lenny：您能谈谈这对公司产生的影响以及 Wealthfront 内部为此付出了多长时间的努力吗？
Chris Hutchins: It was a quick endeavor to try to start talking to people.
克里斯·哈钦斯：尝试与人们交谈是一个很快的尝试。
This was just throw in the mix.
这只是混合在一起。
I have a very poor sense of time, but let's say somewhere between six and 12 months maybe before we put something really in front of someone that could execute on all the features, there was a lot of prototype UI testing.
我的时间观念很差，但假设在 6 到 12 个月之间，也许在我们将某些东西真正摆在可以执行所有功能的人面前之前，有很多原型 UI 测试。
I think Andy, he's legendary.
我认为安迪，他是传奇人物。
If anyone listening to this, wants to learn about product market fit, Andy is your guy.
如果有人听了这个，想了解产品市场契合度，安迪就是你的人。
I believe he coined the term, he teaches the class at Stanford.
我相信他创造了这个词，他在斯坦福大学任教。
And the lesson was really find something people are reaching over the table want, and make sure you have that validation.
这个教训是真正找到人们在桌子上伸手想要的东西，并确保你得到了验证。
And so we were putting things in front of people, clickable, full prototypes, and I remember we got to one where someone was like, "Can I go get my husband?
所以我们把东西放在人们面前，可点击的完整原型，我记得我们得到了一个有人说，“我可以去找我丈夫吗？
I need to show him this."
我需要向他展示这个。”
Chris Hutchins: And then I created this thing, which I'm sure is not that new, but I would start pretending that the product existed in the interviews.
克里斯·哈钦斯：然后我创造了这个东西，我确信这不是那么新鲜，但我会开始假装该产品存在于采访中。
Only to find out, at the end, people was like, "Oh, it's not out yet." And they're like, "What I want to use..." You could really feel the like, "No, no, no, no, this has to be out.
结果发现，最后，人们会说，“哦，还没出来。”他们就像，“我想用什么......”你真的可以感觉到，“不，不，不，不，这个必须被淘汰。
I want to start using it." So we found this thing that a small number of people were very excited about and we knew that a product, this was going to be a high risk bet because people don't automate their financial lives today.
我想开始使用它。”所以我们发现这个东西让一小部分人非常兴奋，我们知道这个产品将是一个高风险的赌注，因为人们今天并没有实现他们的财务生活自动化。
People drive to go pick up fast food and if you could with a push of a button, bring it to their house, you're making a thing that they do much more efficient.
人们开车去买快餐，如果你可以按一下按钮，把它送到他们家，你就让他们做的事情效率更高了。
Right now, well, technically they do this manually, but trusting software to do it is something that we knew would be a higher risk bet.
现在，从技术上讲，他们是手动执行此操作的，但我们知道信任软件来执行此操作将是一个更高风险的赌注。
Chris Hutchins: And I think the takeaway, I would say the impact on the company was not as high as we had wanted in that it didn't become this wild top of funnel.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我认为，我想说的是，对公司的影响没有我们想要的那么大，因为它没有成为漏斗的疯狂顶部。
I think it's similar to Tesla's autopilot.
我认为它类似于特斯拉的自动驾驶仪。
It's like nobody goes and says, "I just want to buy this car because of this feature." I'm sure some people do, but once you're in the ecosystem, it had huge impact on making it easier for people to start saving more, making it easier for people to be more confident in their finances and just automate all that behavior.
就像没有人会说：“我只是因为这个功能才想买这辆车。”我确信有些人会这样做，但是一旦进入生态系统，它就会产生巨大的影响，让人们更容易开始储蓄更多，让人们更容易对自己的财务更有信心，并使所有这些行为自动化。
So I would say the letdown was, it wasn't the big, huge top of funnel thing where people are like, "Oh, this is all I've ever wanted." Even though if you interview people and you're like, "Gosh, would you like a product that could just automate all this stuff?" They're like, "Yes, I would love it."
所以我想说，令人失望的是，这并不是人们会说“哦，这就是我想要的一切”的巨大漏斗顶部。即使当你采访人们时你会说，“天啊，你想要一个可以自动化所有这些东西的产品吗？”他们会说：“是的，我会喜欢的。”
Chris Hutchins: And then you hand it to them and you're like, "Do you want to use this thing?" And they're like, "Well." It's very hard to test that.
克里斯·哈钦斯：然后你把它交给他们，你会问，“你想用这个东西吗？”他们就像，“好吧。”测试这一点非常困难。
And so what we found was it was a win in terms of it.
所以我们发现这在这方面是一场胜利。
It moved a lot of metrics for saving more money, increasing contributions and that kind of stuff, but it didn't become this growth channel, which Andy would say product market fit is exponential organic growth.
它改变了很多衡量标准，以节省更多资金，增加贡献等等，但它并没有成为这个增长渠道，安迪会说产品市场契合度是指数级有机增长。
So I would say by that metric, we didn't have product market fit, but as a tool to make a system of products so much better.
所以我想说，按照这个指标，我们没有产品市场契合度，但作为一种工具可以使产品系统变得更好。
We have the cash account with all the checking features, we have an investing account, we have retirement accounts.
我们有具有所有支票功能的现金账户，我们有投资账户，我们有退休账户。
So this really brought it all together and that was super valuable.
所以这真的把所有的东西结合在一起，这是非常有价值的。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
So here's my big question.
这是我的大问题。
What have you learned?
你学到了什么？
You spent a lot of time thinking about big bets, big innovations, working within a company to come up with something totally new.
你花了很多时间思考大赌注、大创新，在公司内工作以想出一些全新的东西。
What have you learned about how to approach that within a larger company?
关于如何在大公司内解决这个问题，您学到了什么？
How do I successfully innovate?
我如何成功创新？
How to think about launching big bets, how to structure teams, anything along those lines?
如何考虑发起大赌注，如何组建团队，以及类似的事情？
Chris Hutchins: I've learned a few things and I think some of them I've learned came naturally being a founder before being a PM.
Chris Hutchins：我学到了一些东西，我认为我学到的一些东西是在成为产品经理之前作为创始人自然而然学到的。
But you think that customer research is all you need to build a product at a company, but figuring out how to create excitement internally and get buy-in from other teams because they're the ones that are going to build it.
但你认为客户研究就是在公司构建产品所需的全部内容，但要弄清楚如何在内部创造兴奋并获得其他团队的支持，因为他们是要构建产品的人。
They're the ones that are going to help market.
他们是那些将帮助市场的人。
It's all a team effort.
这都是团队的努力。
Sometimes you get caught up, at least I found, as a PM of like, "Oh, we got the customer insights, we did the testing.
有时你会陷入困境，至少我发现，作为一名产品经理，“哦，我们获得了客户洞察，我们进行了测试。
It's all positive." And then you show the ratings you got from sub survey or the engagement or some clips and that's not the end of it.
这都是积极的。”然后你展示从子调查或参与度或一些剪辑中获得的评级，但这还不是结束。
The end is creating this compelling vision for what you're building.
最终的结果就是为你正在构建的东西创造出令人信服的愿景。
And then the thing I learned from being a founder is, gosh, you have to state your vision and your mission and why you're here, every all-hands.
然后我从作为创始人学到的东西是，天哪，你必须阐明你的愿景和使命，以及为什么你在这里，全体员工。
Chris Hutchins: It seems so crazy because it's core to you why we would build this, what it's purposes, why it's amazing.
克里斯·哈钦斯：这看起来很疯狂，因为这对你来说是我们为什么要建造这个、它的目的是什么、为什么它如此神奇的核心。
But as a founder, I was like every week I was like, "Hey everybody, before we get started, this is the mission we're on, this is why we're doing it.
但作为一名创始人，我每周都会说，“嘿大家，在我们开始之前，这就是我们的使命，这就是我们这样做的原因。
This is the thing we're doing in the world." And as a PM sometimes you're like, "Well, I told people three weeks ago and I put it in that email that I sent out to everyone and it was in the top of the PRD, so why hasn't everyone understood why this product exists?" And I realized very quickly that, that same thing is true.
这就是我们在世界上正在做的事情。”作为一名产品经理，有时你会想，“好吧，我三周前就告诉过人们，我把它放在我发送给每个人的电子邮件中，它位于 PRD 的顶部，那么为什么每个人都没有理解这个产品存在的原因呢？”我很快意识到，同样的事情也是如此。
So if you want to make a big bet, if you want to make a big impactful product, you have to bring people along with you.
所以，如果你想下大赌注，如果你想做出一个有影响力的产品，你就必须让人们和你一起。
And your ability to speak publicly, persuade people, build influence within the company.
还有你公开演讲、说服他人、在公司内部建立影响力的能力。
Those things are all as important as your ability to identify a user need and build a product that solves it.
这些事情与您识别用户需求并构建解决该需求的产品的能力一样重要。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
This reminds me a lot of Airbnb, where the founders, all-hands share the vision and the strategy that they came up with that year.
这让我想起了 Airbnb，创始人和全体员工分享了他们当年提出的愿景和战略。
Every single all-hands.
每个人都全力以赴。
And it's always like, "Yeah.
它总是像，“是的。
Yeah, we know.
是的，我们知道。
We know." But to your point, it's so powerful and important.
我们知道。”但就你而言，它是如此强大和重要。
Chris Hutchins: And some people don't know.
克里斯·哈钦斯：有些人不知道。
Some people we're not paying attention that one all-hands, we're kind of missed it out, skip all-hands.
有些人我们没有注意到全员参与，我们有点错过了，跳过了全员参与。
Often there's just, you need everyone to be able to in...
通常，您需要每个人都能够参与...
And this is a little segue to podcasting and we'll come back to it, but I start my show with saying, "Hello and welcome to another episode of All the Hacks, the show about upgrading your life, money and travel." Because I just want everyone to know this is exactly what this show's about, so when their friend asks them a question, they're like, "This is exactly what it is." And the same thing is true about a company's mission, a product, vision, anything you want everyone to really understand it, be able to talk about it succinctly and just have a very cohesive narrative in their head.
这是播客的一点延续，我们会回到它，但我在节目开始时会说：“大家好，欢迎来到 All the Hacks 的另一集，这是一个关于升级你的生活、金钱和旅行的节目。”因为我只是想让每个人都知道这正是这个节目的主题，所以当他们的朋友问他们问题时，他们会说，“这就是它的本质。”对于公司的使命、产品、愿景，任何你希望每个人都真正理解它、能够简洁地谈论它并且在他们的头脑中有一个非常有凝聚力的叙述的东西也是如此。
That's a really big one.
这真的是一个很大的事。
I think the other one is just understanding the customer, not just by talking to them, but just being in the mix, playing with all the products.
我认为另一个就是了解客户，不仅仅是与他们交谈，而是融入其中，玩弄所有产品。
Chris Hutchins: Something I asked a few of my colleagues before this, "What are things that I've particularly done well?" And they were just like, "Gosh, I feel like you understand what's happening outside of the walls of our business better than a lot of people." And maybe that's talking to a lot of other people who are founders talking to a lot of other people, starting companies, going to read all the comments on new financial products on Product Hunt.
克里斯·哈钦斯：在此之前我问过一些同事，“我做得特别好的事情是什么？”他们就像是，“天哪，我觉得你比很多人更了解我们企业之外正在发生的事情。”也许这就是与很多其他创始人交谈，与很多其他人交谈，创办公司，阅读 Product Hunt 上关于新金融产品的所有评论。
Really just trying to understand people beyond just customer research.
实际上只是想了解人们，而不仅仅是客户研究。
And so that was another thing that I think...
所以这是我认为的另一件事......
As a founder, you're always looking for product market fits, you're always trying to learn.
作为创始人，你总是在寻找适合市场的产品，你总是在努力学习。
Sometimes at a company it's really easy to get caught up in the research you've already done and the customers you've already talked to and you forget to kind of step outside and go talk to other people and see what other people are doing.
有时在公司，很容易陷入你已经完成的研究和你已经交谈过的客户中，而忘记走出去与其他人交谈并看看其他人在做什么。
And I'd say don't get caught up in what competitors are building and try to feature parody them, but just understanding the space outside of the walls of your business.
我想说的是，不要被竞争对手正在开发的东西所困扰，并试图模仿他们，而只是了解你的业务之外的空间。
Lenny: One thing I'll add to your point about reminding people of the strategy and the vision is if you can also help them understand how their team and project connects up through that, create kind of a little tree of, "Here's all the teams, what they're doing.
莱尼：关于提醒人们战略和愿景，我要补充的一件事是，您是否还可以帮助他们了解他们的团队和项目如何通过它联系起来，创建一棵小树，“这是所有团队，他们正在做什么。
Here's all connects to the pillars of focus and themes and then here's how it connects to the North Star metric and or vision mission.
这一切都与焦点和主题的支柱有关，然后是它如何与北极星指标和/或愿景使命相联系。
"That kind of adds another wrinkle of like, "Oh, wow.
“这又增加了一种皱纹，比如，“哦，哇。
I get it.
我明白了。
I get why this team's important."
我明白为什么这支球队很重要。”
Chris Hutchins: There's a great analogy, I'm sure if I send a link you could put in the show notes or something about a football team.
克里斯·哈钦斯：有一个很好的类比，我确信如果我发送一个链接，您可以将其放入节目笔记或有关足球队的内容中。
And it's like the GM's goal is to sell out the tickets and win the conference championship and it actually tiers it down.
就好像总经理的目标是卖完门票并赢得会议冠军，而这实际上是降低了级别。
It's like, "Well, there's a defensive line coordinator." I'm not even that big of a sports person, but it's like the defensive line coordinator's job is just one specific thing, but they kind of explain how it all levels up to this one North Star metric for the company or two in that case.
就像，“嗯，有一个防线协调员。”我什至不是那么热衷于体育运动，但这就像防守线协调员的工作只是一件具体的事情，但他们解释了在这种情况下，它是如何达到公司或两个公司的北极星指标的。
And I think that's just so important and when you're talking to people at your company with your colleagues, it's not just what it does.
我认为这非常重要，当你与公司的同事和同事交谈时，这不仅仅是它的作用。
It's like, "This product will automate people's money movement so they don't have to move their money and it happens automatically." And that's cool, but it's equally as important to remind everyone, "And then they don't have to worry about their money every week and then they don't have to worry that their contributions might leave them without enough money in their checking account to pay their rent."
就像，“这个产品将使人们的资金流动自动化，这样他们就不必转移他们的资金，它会自动发生。”这很酷，但同样重要的是要提醒大家，“这样他们就不必每周担心自己的钱，也不必担心他们的捐款可能会让他们的支票账户里没有足够的钱来支付房租。”
Chris Hutchins: There's these two components of it which are, what does it do, but what's the feeling you want someone to have?
克里斯·哈钦斯：它有两个组成部分：它有什么作用，但你希望别人有什么感觉？
And that gets into product vision versus just the product feature set.
这涉及产品愿景而不是产品功能集。
And whenever we've written product visions statements about things we're building, it's like, "Imagine a world where someone can feel this way about their money." And it's like, "And then this thing will do that." That's the product strategy.
每当我们写下我们正在构建的产品的产品愿景声明时，就像是“想象一个世界，人们对自己的钱有这样的感觉。”就像，“然后这个东西就会做到这一点。”这就是产品策略。
It's how you execute on it.
这就是你如何执行它。
And so Reforge has this awesome product strategy kind of product vision roadmap that levels them all up, which I really like as a another resource.
因此，Reforge 拥有这种很棒的产品战略类型的产品愿景路线图，可以将它们全部提升，我非常喜欢将其作为另一种资源。
Lenny: The Reforge.
莱尼：重铸。
I just recorded another podcast this morning actually, and what you just said reminded me of it, where a lot of people focus too much on features and not enough on benefits.
事实上，我今天早上刚刚录制了另一个播客，你刚才说的让我想起了，很多人过于关注功能，而对好处关注不够。
And the stuff you're talking about is just like, "Think about what are the benefits of the person." Versus, "Here's feature one, feature two, feature three."
你所说的就像是“想想这个人的好处是什么。”与“这是特征一、特征二、特征三”相对。
Chris Hutchins: The last little skill, and I know you, you've talked about this, but I think it's something that I was fortunate enough to not care about.
克里斯·哈钦斯：最后一个小技巧，我知道你，你已经谈到过这个，但我认为这是我很幸运没有关心的事情。
Which I think is, when you focus too much at a company about like, "Ooh, I want the promotion" you get caught up in this world where you're like, "If I want the promotion, I need to do what my boss wants." And I had this fortunate benefit of...
我认为，当你在一家公司过于关注“哦，我想要升职”之类的事情时，你就会陷入这样的世界：“如果我想要升职，我需要做我老板想要的事情。”我有这个幸运的好处......
Like my last job, I was the CEO.
就像我的上一份工作一样，我是首席执行官。
I didn't care about my title, I didn't care about leveling up.
我不在乎我的头衔，我不在乎升级。
I came in and I was like, "I want to continue trying to execute on this vision of this thing that I wanted to do." What that actually meant was my only metric I cared about was impact and trying to build a product that would work.
我进来后就想，“我想继续努力实现我想做的事情的愿景。”这实际上意味着我唯一关心的指标是影响力和尝试构建一个可行的产品。
And I think in any job in any company, it turns out you think that doing what your boss wants is actually what's going to get you promoted.
我认为，在任何公司的任何工作中，事实证明，你认为做老板想要的事情实际上会让你升职。
Chris Hutchins: But the people that I've had work for me or I've worked alongside that seem to always be the outperformers, are always the people that are just solely focused on having the most impact on the company.
克里斯·哈钦斯：但为我工作或与我共事的人似乎总是表现出色，而且总是那些只专注于对公司产生最大影响的人。
I think the thing I learned, which I thanks to Andy Rachleff for teaching me this is when you push so hard for your ideas and you have really strong beliefs, you have to also make sure you state your intent.
我想我学到的东西是，当你如此努力地追求你的想法并且你有非常强烈的信念时，你还必须确保你表达你的意图，我要感谢安迪·拉赫勒夫教我这一点。
Because sometimes people think you're acting out of self-interest.
因为有时人们认为你的行为是出于自身利益。
I'd be like, "Oh, we should delete this feature and build this crazy thing.
我会说，“哦，我们应该删除这个功能并构建这个疯狂的东西。
It's going to be amazing." And people are like, "Oh, Chris just thinks his idea is better than everyone."
这将是令人惊奇的。”人们会说，“哦，克里斯只是认为他的想法比其他人都好。”
Chris Hutchins: And so he taught me, he's like, "It would go a long way before you said that, you said, "Hey guys, I've got some crazy ideas, but before I say them, I just want you to know that all I care about is that the company is successful.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以他教我，他就像，“在你说这句话之前，你会说，“嘿伙计们，我有一些疯狂的想法，但在我说这些之前，我只想让你们知道，我关心的只是公司的成功。
And I think this idea will make the company successful.
我认为这个想法将使公司取得成功。
And that's why I'm so excited about it.
这就是为什么我对此如此兴奋。
I don't need to own it.
我不需要拥有它。
I don't care who owns it, I'm just really excited about it."" And when you state your intent, you give people a little bit of ease in thinking you know what it might be.
我不在乎谁拥有它，我只是对它感到非常兴奋。”“当你表达你的意图时，你会让人们更轻松地认为你知道它可能是什么。
And even though I'm sure half the people listening work at a company where their culture is like assume best intent is one of the pillars, it's still our nature to assume that if someone's shooting down an idea we have that maybe it's out of their own self-interest.
尽管我确信一半的倾听者在一家公司工作，他们的文化认为最好的意图是支柱之一，但我们的本性仍然是假设如果有人否决我们的想法，这可能是出于他们自己的利益。
Chris Hutchins: And I've learned that when you have crazy ideas and when you're pushing back against a lot of people, if you can make sure you constantly remind them why you're doing it and what you care about, it goes a lot further than if you just kind of come in there with sharp elbows and try to push for crazy things.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我了解到，当你有疯狂的想法，当你反对很多人时，如果你能确保不断提醒他们为什么要这样做以及你关心什么，那么这比你只是用锐利的肘部试图推动疯狂的事情走得更远。
Lenny: Reminds me, I think Andy is the person who on a podcast once said that every year he picks like a, "We're going to bet the company on this idea." Kind of project, is that?
莱尼：提醒我了，我认为安迪曾经在播客上说过，每年他都会选择这样的人，“我们要把公司押在这个想法上。”是这样的一个项目吗？
Chris Hutchins: I would say we've done that a few times.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我想说我们已经这样做过几次了。
I think the thing that I always told people that I wanted to work on is like, "I want to work on a project that if successful makes everything we do as a company today feel like it's not that important because we did something that was 10 times bigger than everything we're doing today.
我认为我总是告诉人们我想要从事的事情是这样的，“我想要从事一个项目，如果成功的话，我们作为一家公司所做的一切就会感觉不再那么重要，因为我们所做的事情比我们今天所做的事情大 10 倍。
And what we're doing now is just 10% of the company." Those are the kind of crazy ideas I like to work on.
而我们现在所做的只是公司的10%。”这些都是我喜欢尝试的疯狂想法。
They're very hard sometimes you're like, "Ooh, I've got one." And then it just doesn't work.
它们很难，有时你会想，“哦，我有一个。”然后它就不起作用了。
Sometimes you do one and it takes a turn.
有时你做了一个，然后需要轮流。
But I think that when companies find those things, they're so powerful.
但我认为，当公司发现这些东西时，它们就会变得非常强大。
But if you don't have the buy-in for management that that's your goal...
但如果你没有管理层的支持，那就是你的目标......
Andy, he always talks about slugging average, not batting average.
安迪，他总是谈论重击平均数，而不是击打平均数。
He's like, "I don't care if you hit the ball every time.
他就像是，“我不在乎你是否每次都击球。
If one in 10 times you hit a home run that's better than someone who hits it every three out of 10 times but gets out a lot."
如果你有十分之一的人打出本垒打，那就比那些在十次中每三次击中一次但出局次数很多的人要好。”
Chris Hutchins: He thought about that and the balance.
克里斯·哈钦斯：他考虑了这一点和平衡。
He's written a lot internally about the balance between working on iterative improvements to current features and then taking big bets and trying to find the balance amongst it all.
他在内部写了很多关于对当前功能进行迭代改进和下大赌注并试图在这一切之间找到平衡之间的平衡的文章。
But I think he does believe there is always exploration necessary for taking big bets and trying to take swings that could have outsized impact.
但我认为他确实相信，进行大赌注并尝试采取可能产生巨大影响的转变总是有必要进行探索。
You got to balance it because you're often wrong.
你必须平衡它，因为你经常犯错。
And I think that's something that I was like, "That's the thing I want to work on." As someone who is kind of running a company, when you get to go to a big company and you're like, "Now I can solely focus just on this big product bet.
我想这就是我想的，“这就是我想要做的事情。”作为经营一家公司的人，当你去一家大公司时，你会想，“现在我只能专注于这个大产品赌注。
I don't have to worry about hiring and recruiting and all these other things." So that was fun.
我不必担心招聘和招聘以及所有其他事情。”所以这很有趣。
Lenny: Speaking of being solely focused on something, let's talk about the podcast.
Lenny：说到专注于某件事，我们来谈谈播客。
So this is kind of the new thing that you're going to be focused on full-time.
所以这是一种你将全职关注的新事物。
You just left Wealthfront and you launched the podcast maybe a year and a half ago, correct me if I'm wrong, by a year and a half ago.
你刚刚离开Wealthfront，大约一年半前就推出了播客，如果我错了请纠正我，大约是一年半前。
The podcast is Top 30, top 40 business podcast.
该播客为 Top 30、Top 40 商业播客。
It's probably gone a lot of higher at some points.
在某些时候它可能会更高。
And so there's a bunch of questions I want to ask about just how you launched this thing and built this thing.
所以我想问很多问题，关于你是如何推出这个东西并构建这个东西的。
But broadly, what did I miss about the framing of the podcast?
但总的来说，我对播客的框架错过了什么？
Chris Hutchins: Oh, yeah.
克里斯·哈钦斯：哦，是的。
That's it.
就是这样。
It's about 18 months old.
它大约18个月大。
Been doing, gosh, probably about almost 100 episodes, not quite there.
一直在做，天哪，可能大约有 100 集，但还没有完全完成。
Weekly show and I went on parental leave part of the last 18 months and I tried to balance family and just grinding on this and it's been a passion project on the side and I'm very excited to see all the different kind of legs and tentacles that the brand and the content can have.
每周秀，我在过去 18 个月里休了产假，我试图平衡家庭，只是在这上面苦苦挣扎，这是一个充满激情的项目，我很高兴看到品牌和内容可以拥有的所有不同类型的腿和触手。
Lenny: What kind of benefits and good things have come out of having a podcast and launching a podcast or running a podcast?
Lenny：拥有播客、推出播客或运营播客有哪些好处和好处？
Chris Hutchins: I think we all run into people and you're like, "Gosh, this person's really smart.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我想我们都会遇到一些人，你会说，“天哪，这个人真的很聪明。
I wish that I could just pick their brain for an hour." And sometimes you could just email them, be like, "Hey, could we schedule some time in a month and we could just chat?" But that sometimes just feels like a weird thing to ask.
我希望我能花一个小时来了解他们的想法。”有时你可以给他们发电子邮件，比如，“嘿，我们可以在一个月内安排一个时间，我们可以聊天吗？”但有时候问这个问题感觉很奇怪。
The podcast gives you this great platform, you're like, "Well, I have a podcast.
播客为你提供了这个很棒的平台，你会说，“好吧，我有一个播客。
And so I would love to invite you on and help you amplify your message and spend an hour trying to understand everything about topic X, Y, Z." And sometimes it's really nerdy and nuanced and sometimes it's broad, but being able to have a reason.
因此，我很乐意邀请您参与并帮助您放大您的信息，并花一个小时尝试了解有关主题 X、Y、Z 的所有内容。”有时它真的很书呆子和细致入微，有时它很宽泛，但能够有一个理由。
I think one of my first episodes was with a guy named Morgan Housel who wrote a book called Psychology of Money.
我想我的第一集是和一个叫摩根·豪塞尔的人一起看的，他写了一本叫《金钱心理学》的书。
I read the book, I was like, "This is a great book.
我读了这本书，我想，“这是一本很棒的书。
I have so many questions."
我有很多问题。”
Chris Hutchins: But like what I'm I going to od?
克里斯·哈钦斯：但就像我要做的那样？
Randomly email this person I don't know and say, "Hey, I loved your book.
随机给这个我不认识的人发电子邮件并说：“嘿，我喜欢你的书。
Can I just ask you questions for 45 minutes?" I would never do that.
我可以问你45分钟的问题吗？”我永远不会那样做。
But I randomly emailed him and said, "Hey, we've never met.
但我随机给他发了一封电子邮件说：“嘿，我们从未见过面。
But I have a podcast." I don't even think it had launched, "It's launching next week, but I'm really excited about it.
但我有一个播客。”我什至不认为它已经推出，“它将于下周推出，但我对此感到非常兴奋。
Could I pick your brain?" And he was like, "Sure." So I would say the biggest thing is it just gives you a platform to explore your curiosities on things provided that you can really focus the thing that you talk about on one vertical, niche, something so that people learn what it's about.
我可以挑选一下你的大脑吗？”他说：“当然。”所以我想说，最重要的是，它为你提供了一个平台来探索你对事物的好奇心，只要你能真正将你谈论的事情集中在一个垂直的、利基的事物上，这样人们就能了解它的内容。
Because the hardest part about podcast growth is there's like four million podcasts and you've got to find a way to stand out in a sea of many podcasts.
因为播客增长最困难的部分是有大约四百万个播客，你必须找到一种方法在众多播客的海洋中脱颖而出。
Lenny: Let's actually talk about that.
莱尼：我们来谈谈这个吧。
I was going to ask you about that.
我正想问你这个问题。
There's like four million you said, that seems right.
你说的大概有四百万，看来是对的。
It's probably a four million launched to date.
迄今为止，该产品的发行量可能已达 400 万份。
Also, if you're someone that's thinking about, "Should I do a podcast?
另外，如果您正在考虑“我应该做播客吗？
Should I not do a podcast?" Do you have any advice for just signs that this might be a worthwhile endeavor with your time versus signs you probably should not do this, do not even-
我不应该做播客吗？”您是否有任何建议，表明这可能是一项值得您花费时间的努力，而不是表明您可能不应该这样做，甚至不-
Chris Hutchins: I'll give you two perspectives.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我给你两个观点。
So one is, yes, there are four million podcasts.
第一，是的，有四百万个播客。
However, there are only about 150,000 podcasts that have had 10 episodes and have published in the last 10 days.
然而，只有大约 150,000 个播客有 10 集并在过去 10 天内发布。
So the easiest way to be in that top, I don't know, 5% ish.
所以，进入顶部的最简单方法，我不知道，5% 左右。
I don't know what the math there is, about %3, 4%, is to just stick to it.
我不知道数学是什么，大约%3、4%，就是坚持下去。
If you just do an episode a week, for 10 weeks, you're now in the top 4% of all podcasts that anyone has created.
如果您每周只制作一集，持续 10 周，那么您现在已跻身所有创建的播客的前 4% 之列。
Now, that doesn't mean you're in the top 4% of the 150 active podcasts.
现在，这并不意味着您位于 150 个活跃播客中的前 4%。
So what I would say to that is...
所以我想说的是......
I mean, maybe you have a massive platform already, in which case just go start the podcast.
我的意思是，也许您已经拥有一个庞大的平台，在这种情况下，只需启动播客即可。
But if you don't already have a massive platform, it is unlikely statistically, that this thing is going to work.
但如果你还没有一个庞大的平台，那么从统计数据来看，这个东西不太可能发挥作用。
So absolutely, do not start the podcast if you wouldn't do it for free, making no amount of money in perpetuity or as long as you want to experiment with.
所以绝对，如果你不免费做播客，永远赚不到多少钱，或者只要你想尝试，就不要开始播客。
Chris Hutchins: That's one thing I'll throw out there is you are most likely going to start a podcast and it will not take off and be wildly successful.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我要抛出的一件事是，你很可能会开始播客，但它不会起飞并取得巨大成功。
However, I've met plenty of people who have hundreds of listeners and hundreds of episodes and they stuck at it because they truly loved the thing.
然而，我遇到了很多拥有数百名听众和数百集的人，他们坚持下去，因为他们真的很喜欢这个东西。
If you don't know if you love the thing, it's very easy, which is what I did to say, "I'm going to have one season of eight episodes." And I committed to record eight interviews and put eight interviews out in the world.
如果你不知道自己是否喜欢这个东西，那很简单，这就是我所说的，“我将制作一季八集”。我承诺录制八次采访并向全世界发布八次采访。
That was it all I committed to myself.
这就是我对自己的承诺。
And I said, "If that doesn't work, then I will be fine and say, "Here is season one and there's just not a season two." And I would be okay with it." So you can commit to see if you like it before you do it, but chances are, and you might have found something similar when you started creating content, it's like for the first six, nine months, there's no revenue coming in.
我说，“如果这不起作用，那么我会说，‘这是第一季，只是没有第二季。’我会同意的。”所以你可以承诺在做之前看看你是否喜欢它，但很可能，当你开始创建内容时，你可能会发现类似的东西，就像前六、九个月，没有收入进来。
Chris Hutchins: It's a lot more work than it seems.
Chris Huchins：工作量比看上去要多得多。
Everyone I know that has no podcast and goes to having a podcast, they're like, "Oh my gosh, I thought this was just once, one hour a week, I just talked to somebody." It's like, "Now, I have to prepare for it.
我认识的每个人都没有播客，但在开始播客时，他们都会说，“天哪，我以为这只是一次，每周一小时，我只是和某人聊天。”就像，“现在，我必须为此做好准备。
I got to write up show notes, I got to make sure it's edited properly, I got to recruit people.
我必须写演出笔记，我必须确保它被正确编辑，我必须招募人员。
Turns out you reach out to 10 people, two reply, one is willing to schedule this week." There's just a lot that goes into it.
结果你联系了 10 个人，其中两人回复了，其中一人愿意安排这周的时间。”其中涉及很多内容。
So I'd say only do it if you're excited to do it, even if five people are on the other end.
所以我想说，只有当你很高兴这样做时才这样做，即使另一端有五个人。
Lenny: Talking about the time investment, how long does it take you per episode, hours-wise?
Lenny：说到时间投入，每集你需要多长时间，按小时计算？
And then how long did it take you to kind of prep launch?
那么你花了多长时间来准备发布？
Chris Hutchins: And this has evolved a bit as the podcast has generated enough revenue to hire other people.
克里斯·哈钦斯：随着播客产生了足够的收入来雇用其他人，这种情况已经发生了一些变化。
But in general, I would probably spend, depending on how well I knew the topic or the person, anywhere from two to 10 hours preparing for an interview.
但总的来说，我可能会花 2 到 10 个小时准备面试，具体取决于我对主题或人物的了解程度。
If someone wrote a book at the beginning I was like, I got to read the whole book, I got to take notes.
如果有人一开始写了一本书，我就会想，我必须读整本书，我必须做笔记。
Then I was like, "Well, if I read the whole book and take notes, then I kind of know everything.
然后我想，“好吧，如果我读完整本书并做笔记，那么我就知道了一切。
So I'm going to read a few chapters." I wanted to listen to everyone on different interviews.
所以我要读几章。”我想听听每个人在不同采访中的看法。
Some people are really hard, some people have only talked about one topic and you want to get them on another topic.
有些人真的很难，有些人只谈论了一个话题，你想让他们谈论另一个话题。
I interviewed Carrie Walsh Jennings, who's a three time gold medalist at the Olympics for beach volleyball.
我采访了卡丽·沃尔什·詹宁斯，她是奥运会沙滩排球三枚金牌得主。
And I listened to every interview she'd ever done because only 3% of each interview was about not volleyball stuff.
我听了她做过的每一次采访，因为每次采访中只有 3% 与排球无关。
Chris Hutchins: And I was like, "Well, I don't want to talk about volleyball, I want to talk about performance and how you can train." She won a gold medal while she was pregnant.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我当时想，“好吧，我不想谈论排球，我想谈论表现以及如何训练。”她在怀孕期间获得了金牌。
This is a serious level of physical and mental preparedness that I wanted to dig into.
这是我想要深入探讨的身体和心理准备的严重程度。
So that's one big piece of it.
这就是其中的一大部分。
After it's done, then it really depends on the style of show.
做好了之后，就看表演的风格了。
If you have this NPR style editing where it's very narrative driven, it could take you a long time to go through the editing.
如果您采用 NPR 风格的剪辑，非常注重叙事，那么您可能需要很长时间才能完成剪辑。
For me with interview style, I think it takes me about an hour to go back and listen to it at a little, speed up pace.
对于我这种面试风格的人来说，我觉得大概需要一个小时左右的时间回去稍微听听，加快节奏。
And then go in and be like, "Ah, this thing wasn't worth keeping in.
然后进去说，“啊，这东西不值得保留。
Or I mean, we had to repeat something and let's cut that out, or this person stumbled on their words."
或者我的意思是，我们必须重复一些事情，然后把它删掉，否则这个人就会无意中说出他们的话。”
Chris Hutchins: Fortunately there's some amazing software.
Chris Huchins：幸运的是，有一些令人惊叹的软件。
Now I use a piece of software called Descript, which basically imports all the audio, transcribes it to, let's call it like 95% accuracy.
现在我使用一款名为 Descript 的软件，它基本上导入所有音频，将其转录为，我们称之为 95% 的准确率。
And then you can edit the podcast like you would edit a Google Doc.
然后您可以像编辑 Google 文档一样编辑播客。
It's crazy.
太疯狂了。
You're just like, "Oh, let's delete all the ums, control F, um.
你就像，“哦，让我们删除所有的嗯，控制 F，嗯。
Ignore all ums." And then you listen through it and you're like, "Oh, that um, was really necessary, let's put it back in." And little edits like that.
忽略所有嗯。”然后你听完它，你就会想，“哦，那个，嗯，真的有必要，让我们把它放回去。”还有类似这样的小编辑。
But that tool makes the editing process really easy.
但该工具使编辑过程变得非常简单。
From the get-go, I had an audio engineer who would actually mix and master and add in the music and that kind of stuff.
从一开始，我就有了一位音频工程师，他实际上会混合、掌握并添加音乐之类的东西。
Chris Hutchins: So I would say each guest is probably at least 10 hours plus probably two or three hours of coordination and outreach to three or four people that you reach out to in order to get the one.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以我想说，每位客人可能至少需要 10 个小时，再加上可能需要两到三个小时的协调时间，以及与三到四个人的联系才能获得邀请。
Now I've since, hired someone who helps do a little bit of research.
现在我聘请了一个人来帮助做一些研究。
So they might go listen to two or three episodes, read a couple chapters of book and put up some notes with links to those various places.
因此，他们可能会去听两到三集，阅读书中的几章，并贴上一些注释，并附上这些不同地方的链接。
So I can then take that and take my time from 10 hours to three hours.
这样我就可以把时间从 10 小时减少到 3 小时。
Lenny: I'll share my experience briefly.
Lenny：我会简单分享一下我的经历。
It's a little different, which is really interesting to hear your experience.
有点不同，听到你的经历真的很有趣。
So I launched the complete opposite of your advice, which is I just launched big with like, "I will do this forever.
所以我提出了与你的建议完全相反的建议，即我刚刚推出了大的产品，比如“我会永远这样做。
This is my new thing.
这是我的新事物。
I have 40 guests lined up, here's who they're going to be." And I think it's partly because I already went through that initial period of uncertainty, whether I can keep this up with a newsletter, which you said eight to nine months.
我有 40 位客人在排队，这就是他们的名单。”我认为部分原因是我已经经历了最初的不确定时期，我是否可以通过时事通讯保持这种状态，你说八到九个月。
Which is exactly how long it took me to do the newsletter every week to get to a point where I'm like, "Yes, I can keep this up for years.
这正是我每周写时事通讯所花费的时间，直到我达到这样的程度：“是的，我可以坚持很多年。
Let's start adding a paid plan." So I think I was just more confident that I can keep at it.
让我们开始添加付费计划。”所以我想我对自己能坚持下去更有信心了。
Lenny: And then I actually planned to monetize from the beginning.
Lenny：然后我实际上从一开始就计划赚钱。
I think partly again, because I had the newsletter already.
我又想了一部分，因为我已经收到了时事通讯。
And I will say, so I don't edit that myself.
我会说，所以我自己不会编辑它。
I have a production group that is a game changer.
我有一个能够改变游戏规则的制作团队。
So you can save a lot of time and I don't know if you've gone to a producer or anything, but I feel like most people eventually do.
所以你可以节省很多时间，我不知道你是否去找过制片人或其他什么人，但我觉得大多数人最终都会这样做。
Chris Hutchins: I've now switched to someone who went back, listened to the first 20 or 30 episodes and said, "Oh, I get what you like to cut out of a conversation." And I'll end and say, "Hey, take that 90-minute conversation.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我现在换了一个人，他回去听了前 20 或 30 集，然后说：“哦，我明白你想从谈话中删掉什么。”最后我会说：“嘿，进行 90 分钟的谈话。
And I think there's probably 20 minutes to cut out." And they do a very good job of getting pretty close.
我想可能还有 20 分钟的时间要暂停。”他们做得非常好，非常接近。
Chris Hutchins: To the point that some episodes I'm just like, I don't even look at it.
克里斯·哈钦斯：有些剧集我只是喜欢，我什至不看。
Chris Hutchins: When it comes to launch, I would say one of my suggestions is to get a few things in the bag.
克里斯·哈钦斯：说到发布，我想说我的建议之一就是把一些东西放进袋子里。
Line up...
排队...
You don't want to launch and then be scrambling.
您不想启动后就陷入混乱。
So I tend to think launching with two or three episodes, either all at once or in a week is a really valuable strategy.
因此，我倾向于认为一次性或一周内推出两集或三集是一个非常有价值的策略。
You talked about in the intro, you're like, "Sometimes it's been a higher ranked, but top 30." I think I've been top 100 in the business category all the way to top five in the business category, maybe top 10 and just all the way in between.
你在介绍中谈到，“有时排名会更高，但会进入前 30 名。”我想我一直是商业类别前 100 名，一直到商业类别前 5 名，也许是前 10 名，或者一直在两者之间。
Chris Hutchins: And the reason for that is that the ranking charts are all driven by different variables than you would imagine.
克里斯·哈钦斯：原因是排名图表都是由与您想象的不同的变量驱动的。
They're driven a lot by momentum of new subscribers, at least on the Apple charts than actual downloads.
新用户的增长势头在很大程度上推动了它们的发展，至少在苹果排行榜上是这样，而不是实际下载量。
So I have a friend who launched a podcast and had a huge following on social media and so out the gate was able to garner a ridiculous number of new subscribers to the point that she was the number two podcast overall, all podcasts in the world.
我有一个朋友推出了一个播客，并在社交媒体上拥有大量追随者，因此一开始就能够获得数量惊人的新订阅者，以至于她是世界上所有播客中排名第二的播客。
Chris Hutchins: It is crazy for a week or two, a woman named Erika Colberg, she has a podcast called Erika Talk.
克里斯·哈钦斯：有一两周的时间很疯狂，一个名叫埃里卡·科尔伯格的女人，她有一个名为埃里卡谈话的播客。
Chris Hutchins: But it's not number two anymore because it's so driven on the momentum of how often you can get new subscribers.
克里斯·哈钦斯：但它不再是第二名了，因为它受到新订阅者获取频率的推动。
She's still in the top 100 of business podcasts, but to get to the number two spot overall, it's all about number of new followers per hour.
她仍然位列商业播客前 100 名，但要达到整体第二名的位置，关键在于每小时新关注者的数量。
And if you can get a ton of traffic early on, you can drive that.
如果你能尽早获得大量流量，你就可以推动它。
And I will say the value of you doing that is now you've got this screenshot of like, "Look, I was top 10." And by the way, she did the same thing I did.
我想说的是，你这样做的价值在于，现在你已经得到了这样的屏幕截图，“看，我是前十名。”顺便说一句，她做了我做的同样的事情。
The moment I was top 10, the second I was in top 10, I immediately took all those guests that were on my dream list and I was like, "Hey, I've got a top 10 podcast.
当我进入前十名的那一刻，当我第二次进入前十名时，我立即带走了我梦想名单上的所有嘉宾，我当时想，“嘿，我有一个前十名的播客。
Go look at it right now and see that it's in the top 10." So you can always say that forever after it happens once, you can always use those things.
现在去看看它，看看它是否在前十名之内。”所以你总是可以说，在它发生一次之后，你就可以永远使用这些东西。
So capitalize on that.
因此，充分利用这一点。
Chris Hutchins: So you had the newsletter before.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以你之前收到过时事通讯。
I had a newsletter I'd written on casually for various things throughout my life and for my last startup.
我有一份时事通讯，是我为我一生中以及我上一次创业时随意写的各种事情。
And so I kind of put it all together to try to carry a big launch so that we really spike the rankings, maybe qualify for Apple does this new and noteworthy thing.
因此，我将所有这些放在一起，尝试进行一次大型发布，以便我们真正提高排名，也许有资格让苹果公司做这个新的、值得注意的事情。
And so there's a lot of stuff you can do to build momentum at launch, but at the end of the day, all the momentum in the world doesn't matter if your content's not good.
因此，您可以做很多事情来在发布时建立动力，但最终，如果您的内容不好，世界上所有的动力都无关紧要。
So I try to say content for me is product market fit for building software.
所以我试图说内容对我来说是适合构建软件的产品市场。
It's like you need to have a good podcast.
这就像你需要一个好的播客。
And so if you launch big, one of the downsides is you're like, you don't really get that moment of tweaking and testing and seeing how it is.
因此，如果您推出大型产品，缺点之一就是您无法真正进行调整和测试并了解其效果。
And I will say, I did five episodes in the fifth one.
我会说，我在第五集中做了五集。
I was like, "This is number one." The first one I recorded came out, I don't know, fifth.
我当时想，“这是第一。”我录制的第一张专辑发行了，我不知道，第五张。
But the fifth one I recorded came out first because I just knew it was episode one.
但我录制的第五集首先出现，因为我只知道这是第一集。
Chris Hutchins: And the guest that I had on, and we talked about travel hacks, a guy named Leigh Rowan, he's come on twice.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我邀请的一位嘉宾，我们谈论了旅行黑客，一个叫利·罗文的人，他来过两次。
It was just like this awesome energy episode about everything you want to know about travel hacks, allthehacks.com/one.
就像这个精彩的能量剧集一样，讲述了您想了解的有关旅行黑客的一切，allthehacks.com/one。
So save yourself the need to scroll through the whole list.
因此，您无需滚动浏览整个列表。
But if your content isn't a unique perspective, you don't have a unique way of saying it.
但如果你的内容不是一个独特的视角，你就没有独特的表达方式。
It's going to be really hard to stand out in the sea of podcasts.
在播客的海洋中脱颖而出真的很难。
So I always say, be you, be authentic.
所以我总是说，做你自己，做真实的自己。
Try to be someone's favorite.
努力成为某人最喜欢的人。
Don't try to be everyone's okay podcast.
不要试图成为每个人都可以的播客。
I remember Tim Ferris was saying...
我记得蒂姆·费里斯说过……
I got a chance to go on Tim Ferris's show and interview him about podcasting.
我有机会参加蒂姆·费里斯的节目并采访他有关播客的问题。
And he's like, "Look, I did an episode about how to..." I think it was like how to make violins or something.
他就像，“看，我做了一集关于如何......”我认为这就像如何制作小提琴或其他东西。
And he's like, "I was so fascinated about this.
他说：“我对此非常着迷。
80% of people were like, what is this episode?
80%的人都在想，这集是什么？
But 20% of people thought it was one of the best episodes I'd done that year."
但 20% 的人认为这是我那一年拍的最好的剧集之一。”
Chris Hutchins: And I think half of his top 10 episodes of all time are people you wouldn't recognize.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我认为他有史以来排名前十的剧集中有一半都是你不认识的人。
So I would focus on what gets you excited, not focus on what you think will move the metrics.
因此，我会关注让你兴奋的事情，而不是你认为会改变指标的事情。
Because every time I have a guest where I'm like, "I really think this person's going to move the metrics." It doesn't.
因为每次我接待一位客人时，我都会想，“我真的认为这个人会改变指标。”事实并非如此。
And then I interview someone who no one has ever heard of, and I get these emails like, "Wow, that was such a good episode.
然后我采访了一个从未听说过的人，然后我收到这样的电子邮件，“哇，那一集真是太棒了。
Can't be.
不可能。
Oh man, I'm so glad you did that one." I was like, "You don't even know this person is."
噢，伙计，我很高兴你做到了这一点。”我当时想，“你甚至不知道这个人是。”
Lenny: Very similar experience in many ways across a lot of the things that you said.
莱尼：你所说的很多事情在很多方面都非常相似。
Something that you did mention that you shared previously with me is, and this is advice that I've thought about a lot, is you should be somebody's favorite podcast.
你确实提到过你之前与我分享过的事情是，这是我思考了很多的建议，那就是你应该成为某人最喜欢的播客。
That's like a sign that you're doing something right.
这就像一个标志，表明你正在做正确的事情。
Can you expand on that?
你能扩展一下吗？
Chris Hutchins: There's this whole idea of your build your 1000 true fans.
Chris Hutchins：这就是建立 1000 名忠实粉丝的整个想法。
And I think anytime you're creating something in the world, you want people to be your advocates for it because those are the people that are going to share it.
我认为，每当你在世界上创造一些东西时，你都希望人们成为你的倡导者，因为这些人将分享它。
Those are the people that are going to write the reviews, those are the people that are going to send you the ideas.
这些人将撰写评论，这些人将向您发送想法。
Those are the people that are ultimately, when you make a call-out on a podcast like, "Hey, I'm looking for someone to help build this company or this enterprise." That are going to reach out and want to work for you.
当你在播客上大声喊出“嘿，我正在寻找人来帮助建立这家公司或这家企业”时，这些人最终就是这样的人。他们会主动联系你并希望为你工作。
I find it so valuable to build that relationship with people.
我发现与人建立这种关系非常有价值。
And it's even more valuable with podcasting because podcasting is such an intimate medium.
对于播客来说更有价值，因为播客是一种非常亲密的媒介。
You're in someone's ear and they're actively listening to you while they're going about their life.
您在某人的耳边，他们在生活中积极倾听您的声音。
They're going on a walk, they're , but you're right there.
他们要去散步，但你就在那里。
Chris Hutchins: And I get so many emails, they're like, "Ah, I feel like I'm just sitting on the couch with you while you're talking to me." And you create this really close relationship and the more you can create for those people and be their favorite time of the day, their favorite thing.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我收到了很多电子邮件，他们就像是，“啊，当你和我说话时，我觉得我只是和你坐在沙发上。”当你建立了这种非常亲密的关系，你就能为这些人创造更多的东西，成为他们一天中最喜欢的时间，他们最喜欢的事情。
Someone once told me, "Make sure you're consistent with the time you release because you'll get people that are like, "It's Wednesday morning, where's my episode?
有人曾经告诉我，“确保你的发布时间一致，因为你会得到这样的人，”这是周三早上，我的剧集在哪里？
This is how I...
我就是这样...
It's become a ritual in my life."" And so, I don't know.
这已经成为我生活中的一种仪式。”“所以，我不知道。
I just think it's so valuable to build that early kind of excited user base and those 1000 true fans that I always try to put something out that's someone's favorite.
我只是认为建立早期的兴奋用户群和 1000 个真正的粉丝非常有价值，所以我总是尝试推出一些人们最喜欢的东西。
Chris Hutchins: And I actually surveyed the audience about 50 episodes in and ask, "Which was your favorite episode?" And every episode except one was someone's favorite.
克里斯·哈钦斯：实际上，我对观众进行了大约 50 集的调查，并询问“你最喜欢哪一集？”除了一集之外，每一集都是有人最喜欢的。
There's one episode that, no one's favorite.
有一个情节，没有人最喜欢。
So I'm still waiting.
所以我还在等待。
Maybe next time I survey someone will be like, "No. No, that one was my favorite." But every other episode of 50 episodes was someone's favorite.
也许下次我调查时有人会说，“不。不，那是我最喜欢的。”但 50 集中的每一集都是有人最喜欢的。
And it was like the coolest feeling knowing that every episode was someone's favorite.
知道每一集都是某人最喜欢的感觉就像是最酷的感觉。
Lenny: That's exactly what happens with my newsletter.
莱尼：这正是我的时事通讯所发生的情况。
I get a reply with every newsletter and someone's like, "This is my favorite one yet." Okay, somebody really likes this one.
每一份时事通讯我都会收到回复，有人会说：“这是我最喜欢的。”好吧，确实有人喜欢这个。
It's so interesting.
太有趣了。
Lenny: Are you hiring or on the flip side, are you looking for a new opportunity?
莱尼：你们是在招聘还是在寻找新的机会？
Well, either way, check out lennysjob.com/talent.
好吧，无论哪种方式，请查看 lennysjob.com/talent。
If you're a hiring manager, you can sign up and get access to hundreds of hand curated people who are open to new opportunities.
如果您是招聘经理，您可以注册并接触数百名对新机会持开放态度的精心挑选的人员。
Thousands of people apply to join this collective, and I personally review and accept just about 10% of them.
成千上万的人申请加入这个集体，而我个人审核并接受的人大约只有10%。
You won't find a better place to hire product managers and growth leaders.
您找不到比这更好的地方来雇用产品经理和增长领导者了。
Join almost a hundred other companies who are actively hiring through collective.
加入近百家其他积极通过集体招聘的公司。
And if you're looking around for a new opportunity actively or passively join the collective, it's free.
如果您正在积极或被动地寻找新机会加入这个集体，它是免费的。
You can be anonymous and you can even hide yourself from specific companies.
您可以匿名，甚至可以向特定公司隐藏自己。
You can also leave anytime and you'll only hear from companies that you want to hear from.
您也可以随时离开，并且您只会收到您想要的公司的消息。
Check out lennysjobs.com/talent.
请访问 lennysjobs.com/talent。
How did you pick your topic for your podcast?
您是如何为播客选择主题的？
And then did you have just advice for folks for how to pick the topic for their podcast?
那么您对人们如何选择播客主题有什么建议吗？
Chris Hutchins: This is an interesting one.
克里斯·哈钦斯：这是一件有趣的事情。
So my podcast actually started as a parenting podcast from the perspective of dads.
所以我的播客实际上是从爸爸的角度开始的育儿播客。
And I was doing all this research.
我正在做所有这些研究。
I built this probably 75-page Notion doc all about parenting.
我构建了这个大约 75 页的概念文档，全部都是关于育儿的。
It was like I had a kanban board for all the things I needed to do in each trimester of the pregnancy.
这就好像我有一个看板来处理怀孕每个三个月需要做的所有事情。
And then the fourth trimester after the baby was born, I had all these checklists.
然后在婴儿出生后的第四个三个月，我有了所有这些清单。
I had a stroller spreadsheet that had, at least, let's call it 15, 20 different features that you could filter on.
我有一个婴儿车电子表格，至少有 15、20 个可以过滤的不同功能。
Dimensions, cubic volume of when you sum up the dimension, everything.
尺寸，立方体积，当你总结尺寸时，一切。
It was crazy.
太疯狂了。
And I was like, "I'm so obsessed with this." And I was like, "Nobody's really taking this kind of crazy optimized approach to processing parental information except a few people." Emily Oster, by the way, if anyone out there wrote a few books, I really loved her pragmatic science approach.
我当时想，“我对此非常着迷。”我当时想，“除了少数人之外，没有人真正采用这种疯狂的优化方法来处理父母信息。”艾米丽·奥斯特，顺便说一句，如果有人写过几本书，我真的很喜欢她务实的科学方法。
But I just didn't see a lot of this and I especially didn't see as much content coming from dads.
但我只是没有看到很多这样的内容，尤其是没有看到那么多来自爸爸的内容。
Chris Hutchins: And I was like, "I'm so excited." And then we had our daughter and for some reason I was like, "I love her.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我当时想，“我太兴奋了。”然后我们有了女儿，出于某种原因我想，“我爱她。
But the topic of parenting and optimizing every aspect of it just wasn't what it was before we had the child as after." I was like, "Wow.
但育儿和优化各个方面的话题在我们有了孩子之前并不是这样的。”我当时想，“哇。
But I bought this microphone and I figured out how to use all the editing software and I had never even recorded an episode." And it just ended up that I was like, "That topic just wasn't right for me." And I went on another friend of mine's podcast guy named Kevin Rose, who was a co-founder of a company we started, he started Digg back in the day.
但我买了这个麦克风，并且知道了如何使用所有编辑软件，而且我什至从未录制过一集。”结果我就想，“这个话题不适合我。”我参加了我的另一个朋友的播客，名叫凯文·罗斯，他是我们创办的一家公司的联合创始人，他当时创办了 Digg。
And in the middle of it we'd been talking about this, I've been brainstorming ideas, and in the middle of his podcast he's like, "Hey, tell us about your new podcast."
在中间我们一直在谈论这个，我一直在集思广益，在他的播客中他就像，“嘿，告诉我们你的新播客。”
Chris Hutchins: And then I was like, "Kevin, I haven't nailed down what it is." And he's like, "Yeah, it's fine.
克里斯·哈钦斯：然后我就想，“凯文，我还没有确定它是什么。”他说：“是的，没关系。
Why don't you just record a response to that question and email it to me before this episode goes live and then you could just tell everyone what your podcast is about." And then I was like, "Okay, I'll think about it." And the next day he was like, "Dude, I need this by Friday." I was like, "Oh, man.
你为什么不记录一下对这个问题的回答，并在本集上线之前通过电子邮件发送给我，然后你就可以告诉大家你的播客是关于什么的。”然后我就想：“好吧，我会考虑一下。”第二天，他说：“伙计，我周五之前需要这个。”我当时想，“哦，伙计。
So I have two days to figure out what my podcast is." And I talked to a lot of people and they're like, "What do you love, what do you love talking about?" I was like, "Gosh." What question someone said is, when you're at a dinner table, what's the thing that you talk about where you notice that everyone at the table is leaning in and trying to listen and pick your brain on and maybe sends you a text after?
所以我有两天的时间来弄清楚我的播客是什么。”我和很多人交谈过，他们都会问，“你喜欢什么，你喜欢谈论什么？”我当时想，“天啊。”有人问的问题是，当你在餐桌上时，你注意到餐桌上的每个人都在倾身倾听并听取你的意见，然后可能会给你发一条短信，你会谈论什么？
Chris Hutchins: And I was like, "It's probably all the hacks I have for traveling for free, for getting upgrades, for saving money, for shopping online, for optimizing my health or anything, house hacking, saving money on my rent." And every time I bring those up, people are like, "I like saving money.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我当时想，“这可能是我所有的小窍门，可以免费旅行、升级、省钱、网上购物、优化我的健康或任何东西，房屋黑客、省房租。”每次我提起这些，人们都会说，“我喜欢省钱。
I want to travel for free." And they're leaning in, they're like, "Which credit card do I get?
我想免费旅行。”他们倾身向前，问道：“我该申请哪张信用卡？
Is this one bad?
这个不好吗？
What about this one?" And I couldn't come up with a name.
那这个呢？”我想不出名字。
I had hundreds of names.
我有数百个名字。
It was like life upgraded, optimized your life.
这就像生活升级了，优化了你的生活。
But every time I described what it was, I just said, "It's life upgraded.
但每次我描述它是什么时，我只是说：“这是生活的升级。
I'll teach you all the hacks to do this." And then someone, I can't even remember who was like, "What about just All the Hacks?" And then I looked and I was like, "Is allthehacks.com available?"
我会教你所有的技巧来做到这一点。”然后有人，我什至不记得是谁说，“那么所有的黑客怎么样？”然后我看了看，我想，“allthehacks.com 可以使用吗？”
Chris Hutchins: I was like, "What?
克里斯·哈钦斯：我当时想，“什么？
It's available." It's like...
它可用。”这就像...
Get the domain.
获取域名。
And then I very quickly recorded a response to Kevin's question, which was like, "Yes, I'm launching a podcast called All the Hacks, here's what it is." And I had to go create a trailer and upload it all in three days.
然后我很快就记录了对凯文问题的回答，就像是，“是的，我正在推出一个名为 All the Hacks 的播客，这就是它的内容。”我必须去创建一个预告片并在三天内将其全部上传。
And I think I was fortunate that I just had the time pressure that I had a thing to get out.
我认为我很幸运，因为我有时间压力，我有事情要做。
So I'd say one, what do you love talking about at the dinner table?
所以我想说一个，你喜欢在餐桌上谈论什么？
What gets you excited?
什么让你兴奋？
What do people reach out to you for expertise on?
人们会向您寻求哪些方面的专业知识？
What do you spend your time going down deep rabbit holes on the internet on?
你花时间在互联网上钻研什么？
Because all of those things are going to be part of your life as a creator.
因为所有这些事情都将成为你作为创造者生活的一部分。
And then two, if there's any way you can force yourself to just have to make a decision because I get stuck in this analysis paralysis, that's great.
第二，如果有什么方法可以强迫自己做出决定，因为我陷入了这种分析瘫痪，那就太好了。
Chris Hutchins: So find some friend of yours that's like, "I'm tweeting about your podcast on Friday, or I'm going to include you in my newsletter next month." And give yourself an artificial deadline or even a real deadline to just put a stake in the ground.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以，找一个你的朋友说，“我周五会在推特上发布你的播客，或者我将在下个月的时事通讯中包含你。”给自己一个人为的最后期限，甚至是一个真正的最后期限，让自己在地上下注。
And you could change the name, you could pivot the topic, you could pivot the style of content.
你可以改变名字，你可以改变主题，你可以改变内容的风格。
All those things can happen after, but just get started because you'll get to learn whether you like doing it, how it feels.
所有这些事情都可能在之后发生，但只要开始，因为你会了解你是否喜欢这样做，感觉如何。
And you could always...
而且你总是可以...
This is another fun hack.
这是另一个有趣的技巧。
You could create a podcast and make a private feed and people can add a private feed to their podcast app.
您可以创建一个播客并制作私人提要，人们可以将私人提要添加到他们的播客应用程序中。
So if you want to get some feedback, you can just send people a URL and say, "Hey, paste this URL and the Apple Podcast player and listen to a couple episodes and let me know what you think." Before you make that plunge to send it to the whole world.
因此，如果您想获得一些反馈，您只需向人们发送一个 URL 并说：“嘿，粘贴此 URL 和 Apple 播客播放器，听几集，然后让我知道您的想法。”在你决定将它发送给全世界之前。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
I actually heard that interview with Kevin Rose back in the day, and I checked out the podcast, I think I actually subscribed and it felt very natural.
我实际上听过凯文·罗斯的采访，我查看了播客，我想我实际上订阅了，感觉很自然。
So nice job.
干得好。
Chris Hutchins: Yeah.
克里斯·哈钦斯：是的。
Little did you know that it was inserted in post production, recorded on a separate system.
您几乎不知道它被插入到后期制作中，并在单独的系统上录制。
Yeah.
是的。
Lenny: So people listening to this made feel like, "Hey, I don't have Kevin Rose announcing my podcast.
莱尼：所以听这个的人会觉得，“嘿，我没有让凯文·罗斯宣布我的播客。
How do I get started?
我该如何开始？
How do I get my initial traction in my podcast?" Do you have any advice there for people that are just launching things they could do to get their initial set of subscribers and get the word out and get some kind of traction without a friend with a huge platform?
我如何在我的播客中获得最初的关注？”对于那些刚刚推出一些东西来获得最初的订阅者、宣传并在没有拥有庞大平台的朋友的情况下获得某种吸引力的人，您有什么建议吗？
Chris Hutchins: Yes.
克里斯·哈钦斯：是的。
I interviewed a guy named Nick Gray, and it was a fun conversation because he wrote a book called The 2-Hour Cocktail Party, and it was all about how to build relationships by throwing the best cocktail parties.
我采访了一个名叫尼克·格雷的人，这是一次有趣的谈话，因为他写了一本名为《两小时鸡尾酒会》的书，内容都是关于如何通过举办最好的鸡尾酒会来建立关系。
And it was very tactical guide, but one of the things he does is he has a friend's newsletter.
这是非常战术性的指南，但他所做的一件事就是他有朋友的时事通讯。
And he basically created a newsletter and every time he meets someone that is a friend of his, he sends him a note, says, "Can I add you to my friend's newsletter?" People say, yes.
他基本上创建了一份时事通讯，每次他遇到他的朋友时，他都会给他发一张便条，说：“我可以将你添加到我朋友的时事通讯中吗？”人们说，是的。
And he just shares, "Here's some cool articles I'm reading.
他只是分享道：“这是我正在读的一些很酷的文章。
Here's a cool thing I'm doing in my life.
这是我一生中正在做的一件很酷的事情。
Here's a picture." It's instead of waiting till the holidays to send your holiday card to everyone that's like, "Here's what happened this year.
这是一张照片。”与其等到假期才向每个人发送节日贺卡，不如说“这就是今年发生的事情。
Or maybe now we've..." That's what my grandparents did.
或者也许现在我们已经……”这就是我的祖父母所做的。
Now it's just like, "Here's a photo of the family."
现在就像，“这是一张家庭照片。”
Chris Hutchins: He just sends it out.
克里斯·哈钦斯：他只是将其发送出去。
I don't even know what the cadence is.
我什至不知道节奏是什么。
It's just like every now and then I get an email and it's like, "Oh, this what Nick's up to, this is pretty cool." Anyone can subscribe to it.
就像我时不时地收到一封电子邮件一样，“哦，这就是尼克所做的，这太酷了。”任何人都可以订阅它。
And he shares all these great things.
他分享了所有这些伟大的事情。
He's like, "Ah, I was thinking about a virtual assistant.
他说，“啊，我在考虑虚拟助理。
Here's 75 things that I dreamed up that I could send to a virtual assistant." I was like, "That's really cool." "Here's how I tweak my Calendly.
这是我梦想可以发送给虚拟助理的 75 件事情。”我当时想，“这真的很酷。” “这是我调整 Calendly 的方法。
And I sent the Calendly to you.
我把日历寄给你了。
It's like I added a few little things in it that..." He had suggestions to just make it a little more friendly, make it a little more comfortable.
就像我在其中添加了一些小东西......”他提出了一些建议，只是让它变得更友好一点，让它更舒服一点。
The one I loved was like, "If I'm not arrived within two minutes of the start time, here is my cell phone number.
我喜欢的那个是这样的，“如果我在开始时间后两分钟内没有到达，这是我的手机号码。
I just want to make sure I'm prompt.
我只是想确保我及时。
And people know that."
人们都知道这一点。”
Chris Hutchins: And so, one thing is, before you even get started, find a way to just build an audience of your closest friends, family, colleagues, and throw stuff out in the world.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以，有一件事是，在你开始之前，找到一种方法来建立你最亲密的朋友、家人、同事的受众，然后把东西扔到世界上。
You don't have to do it weekly or monthly.
您不必每周或每月进行一次。
You could just send it out every quarter, every six months, it doesn't matter.
你可以每季度、每六个月发送一次，没关系。
But start to build something.
但开始建造一些东西。
So I started with a new, I think it was on MailChimp, called Life Updates.
所以我开始了一个新的项目，我想是在 MailChimp 上，叫做 Life Updates。
And I think I sent five of these out 10 years ago, and I hadn't really sent one out in seven years, but I still had this email newsletter with 1100 people on it that I just collected from life.
我想我 10 年前就发出过其中的 5 封邮件，而我已经有 7 年没有真正发出过一封了，但我仍然保留着这份包含 1100 人的电子邮件通讯，是我从生活中收集来的。
And so that was one thing.
所以这是一回事。
Look, you can always go out and try to find other creative ways to partner with people.
看，你总是可以出去尝试寻找其他创造性的方式与人们合作。
So you have a newsletter, but you don't have a podcast.
所以你有一份时事通讯，但没有播客。
Chris Hutchins: Could you use your newsletter to promote something?
克里斯·哈钦斯：你能用你的时事通讯来宣传一些东西吗？
Could you find someone who has a platform that you could trade your services for promotional things?
你能找到一个拥有平台的人，你可以用你的服务换取促销品吗？
Yeah, I can think of any couple examples where there's been something where I've been really excited use and I'm like, "Hey, could I talk to my audience about this thing?
是的，我能想到任何一些例子，其中有一些我非常兴奋使用的东西，我想，“嘿，我可以和我的观众谈论这个东西吗？
And then you could let me use this?" So if there's anything, whether it's consulting services or anything, you could maybe trade those services for other people with an audience to share and promote you.
然后你可以让我使用这个吗？”因此，如果有什么东西，无论是咨询服务还是其他任何东西，您都可以将这些服务交换给其他有观众的人来分享和推广您。
I think that happens more often than not.
我认为这种情况经常发生。
But again, it all matters if you have good content.
但同样，如果你有好的内容，这一切都很重要。
So I'd say the first thing, the most important thing to grow a piece of content is just have it be good.
所以我想说的第一件事，增长内容最重要的就是让它变得好。
And it's hard to know what's good.
而且很难知道什么是好的。
Put it out in the world, see if people like it.
发布到世界各地，看看人们是否喜欢它。
Maybe get your reps in before you even try some of these growth things.
也许在你尝试这些增长的事情之前就让你的代表介入。
Chris Hutchins: I think I was fortunate to have done some public speaking before, so I felt a little more comfortable.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我想我很幸运以前做过一些公开演讲，所以我感觉更舒服一些。
But if you...
但如果你...
You mentioned MrBeast earlier, he's very public about the fact, if you go back 10 years and look at his YouTube videos, they were not exciting like they are now.
你之前提到了 MrBeast，他非常公开地承认这样一个事实，如果你回到 10 年前，看看他的 YouTube 视频，他们并不像现在这样令人兴奋。
And it took him a long time.
他花了很长时间。
And I think that's the reality with content is, for almost every person that you see out there and you're like, "Wow, they have this huge audience.
我认为这就是内容的现实，对于你看到的几乎每个人来说，你都会想，“哇，他们有这么多的观众。
It's so awesome." You go back 10 years and you're like, "Oh, well their first episode wasn't that awesome.
太棒了。”你回到 10 年前，你会想，“哦，他们的第一集没那么棒。
It was actually kind of crazy.
这实际上有点疯狂。
Or it wasn't that interesting.
或者说，事情并没有那么有趣。
And they got better over time.
随着时间的推移，他们变得更好了。
They learned what their audience liked, they built a following." So those things are all there.
他们了解观众喜欢什么，并建立了一批追随者。”所以这些东西都在那里。
Find communities.
寻找社区。
If you're talking about a very specific thing, I never forgot Gary Vaynerchuk's lesson, gosh, he probably told me this 13 years ago.
如果你谈论的是一件非常具体的事情，我永远不会忘记 Gary Vaynerchuk 的教训，天哪，他可能在 13 年前就告诉了我这一点。
Chris Hutchins: He was like, "When he was starting Wine Library." Which most people don't maybe even know that that's what he was originally known for.
克里斯·哈钦斯：他就像是，“当他创办葡萄酒图书馆时。”大多数人可能甚至不知道这就是他最初出名的原因。
He wanted to build this business and so he went on Twitter and he looked for every single person that asked a question about wine and he at replied them back.
他想建立这项业务，所以他在推特上寻找每一个询问有关葡萄酒问题的人，然后他回复了他们。
And so a tactic that I think could work really well is, for me, I'm like, "I love travel.
因此，我认为对我来说非常有效的策略是，“我喜欢旅行。
I love points and miles." I can just search Twitter and find every person on Twitter, every person on Reddit, every person on a forum, whatever that's asking a question about the thing my podcast answers, and go in and try to be a value add to them.
我喜欢积分和里程。”我可以搜索 Twitter，找到 Twitter 上的每个人、Reddit 上的每个人、论坛上的每个人，无论是谁对我的播客回答的问题提出问题，然后进去并尝试为他们增值。
I guarantee that if you have a podcast and your favorite thing is quilting and in your bio on Twitter, maybe Twitter's not the right platform, but let's just go with the analogy, right?
我保证，如果你有一个播客，并且你最喜欢的事情是绗缝，并且在 Twitter 上的个人简介中，也许 Twitter 不是合适的平台，但让我们打个比方，对吧？
Chris Hutchins: Your bio says , "Top quilting podcast." And you go find everyone that's asking questions about quilting and answer their questions with strong, good answers.
克里斯·哈钦斯：你的简历上写着“顶级绗缝播客”。你去找每个提出有关绗缝问题的人，并用强有力的、好的答案来回答他们的问题。
They're going to look at your bio and be like, "Oh my gosh, this person knows their stuff about this topic.
他们会看着你的简历，然后说：“天哪，这个人对这个话题很了解。
Let's go see what they do." And you have these advocates they share in their communities and it grows over time.
我们去看看他们在做什么。”他们在社区中拥有这些倡导者，并且随着时间的推移而不断增长。
I'll come back to one more tactic, which I didn't do, but there's no built-in distribution engine in podcasting.
我会回到另一种策略，我没有这样做，但播客中没有内置的分发引擎。
TikTok, you make a TikTok video, TikTok sends it to like a hundred people and if no one likes it dies.
TikTok，你制作一个 TikTok 视频，TikTok 将其发送给大约一百个人，如果没有人喜欢，它就会死掉。
But if like a few people like it, they send it to more people and more people.
但如果有少数人喜欢，他们就会将其发送给越来越多的人。
And YouTube does the same thing.
YouTube 也做同样的事情。
Instagram Reels does the same thing.
Instagram Reels 也做了同样的事情。
Podcasting doesn't have that, and so it's just a slow growth effort and you just have to be okay with that.
播客不具备这一点，所以它只是一个缓慢的增长努力，你必须接受这一点。
Chris Hutchins: But what I didn't do early on, which you can do is you can make clips of your podcast and you could put those clips on these channels that do have that built in distribution.
克里斯·哈钦斯：但我早期没有做的，你可以做的是你可以制作你的播客剪辑，然后你可以将这些剪辑放在那些确实有内置分发的频道上。
And if those clips do take off, they could build a massive audience.
如果这些视频真的大受欢迎，它们可能会吸引大量观众。
And so there's a guy, Danny Miranda, he has a podcast and he launched, didn't have a huge following, but he created clips of every single episode, lots of clips.
所以有一个人，丹尼米兰达，他有一个播客，他推出了，没有大量的追随者，但他为每一集创建了剪辑，很多剪辑。
He didn't know what was the most interesting piece of content, so he made a clip for everything.
他不知道什么是最有趣的内容，所以他把所有内容都制作了一个剪辑。
He built millions and millions of views on TikTok and Instagram, just by creating content from his podcast that drove downloads over to his podcast.
他在 TikTok 和 Instagram 上获得了数以百万计的浏览量，仅仅通过从他的播客中创建内容来推动下载到他的播客。
Helped him build his audience, and he built an audience on social faster than I have a and bigger than I currently have out of just being all in on distributing his content on platforms that had growth engines built into it.
帮助他建立了自己的受众群体，他在社交媒体上建立的受众群体比我更快，也比我目前的规模更大，因为他全心全意在内置增长引擎的平台上分发他的内容。
Lenny: The last point is interesting because what I've been hearing, and I've actually experienced it, so I have TikTok clips, I have YouTube videos and YouTube shorts, and I find they drive followers within the platform and downloads and views, but I haven't seen any actual impact on the podcast.
Lenny：最后一点很有趣，因为我一直在听到，而且我确实经历过，所以我有 TikTok 剪辑，我有 YouTube 视频和 YouTube 短片，我发现它们带动了平台内的关注者、下载量和观看量，但我还没有看到对播客有任何实际影响。
And maybe people can measure it or maybe they can tell something's happening, but from what I hear and what I've seen, I don't know if it actually drives a lot of downloads, but it's still really useful, still useful to have an awesome TikTok account and an awesome YouTube account.
也许人们可以测量它，或者也许他们可以告诉正在发生的事情，但从我听到的和我看到的来看，我不知道它是否真的会带来大量下载，但它仍然非常有用，拥有一个很棒的 TikTok 帐户和一个很棒的 YouTube 帐户仍然很有用。
Chris Hutchins: He said, "Look..." I don't know if it drives downloads, but it drives brand awareness for me.
克里斯·哈钦斯：他说，“看……”我不知道这是否会推动下载，但它会提高我的品牌知名度。
Chris Hutchins: And he's had multiple guests be like, "Oh yeah, I'd love to go on your show." One of the clips he made, he made a clip talking about Ray Dalio.
克里斯·哈钦斯：很多嘉宾都对他说，“哦，是的，我很想参加你的节目。”在他制作的一个剪辑中，他制作了一个谈论雷·达里奥的剪辑。
And Ray Dalio was like reposting his clip.
雷·达里奥（Ray Dalio）就像转发了他的剪辑。
And so he was getting a lot of engagement with people that would be very difficult to reach out to saying, "I have this many downloads." But because he was getting thousands or even millions of views across a platform, it gave him the credibility to do a lot of things that he might not have been able to do now.
因此，他与人们进行了大量的接触，而这些人很难说“我有这么多的下载量”。但由于他在一个平台上获得了数千甚至数百万的浏览量，这让他有信心去做很多他现在可能无法做到的事情。
Then he's gone and translated that into, "Well, let's go bring some of these people with really, really wide distribution of their podcast onto my show and let's do an interview with them." Then for the most part, people are like, "Oh, let's distribute that content to my audience that you had me on."
然后他走了，把这句话翻译成：“好吧，让我们把播客传播范围非常广泛的一些人带到我的节目中，让我们对他们进行采访。”然后在大多数情况下，人们会说，“哦，让我们将你让我观看的内容分发给我的观众。”
Chris Hutchins: One thing he did that was so good is he did all of his videos in person, so he would fly to someone record in person, and the quality of the video for an in-person video was just so much better than you get doing a remote thing.
克里斯·哈钦斯：他做的一件非常好的事情是他亲自制作了所有视频，所以他会飞到亲自录制的人那里，而现场视频的视频质量比远程制作的视频质量要好得多。
It's a lot harder.
这要困难得多。
It's a lot more work and it doesn't even impact the audio, but he would make the best quality clips, and Erika Colberg does the same thing.
这需要做更多的工作，而且甚至不会影响音频，但他会制作出最好质量的剪辑，埃里卡·科尔伯格也做了同样的事情。
And she would deliver them and he would deliver them to the guests, and now the guest starts using those clips because he spent so much time trying to come up with the best clips, the highest quality, best produced that made his guests look amazing.
她将它们交付给客人，他将它们交付给客人，现在客人开始使用这些剪辑，因为他花了很多时间试图拿出最好的剪辑，最高的质量，最好的制作，让他的客人看起来很棒。
And then those guests were much more likely to share those in their audiences and all of a sudden you've got a lot of momentum.
然后这些客人更有可能在观众中分享这些内容，突然间你就有了很大的动力。
Chris Hutchins: Does that translate to downloads?
Chris Huchins：这会转化为下载量吗？
I'll give you a little shout-out, Danny has a paid newsletter on Substack where he actually breaks down all his downloads and all his tactics on how this is all working for him.
我要向您大声喊叫，Danny 在 Substack 上有一份付费时事通讯，其中他实际上详细介绍了他的所有下载和所有策略，说明这一切如何为他工作。
And it's fascinating, it's called In The DM, because he did a lot of his early on recruiting with guests in DMS on social media.
这很有趣，它被称为“In The DM”，因为他早期在社交媒体上与 DMS 的嘉宾进行了很多招募。
But it's to be seen, how much of an impact it can have on your podcast, but it certainly builds other things that are, I'd say like indirect...
但有待观察的是，它会对你的播客产生多大的影响，但它肯定会建立其他东西，我想说的是间接的......
There's no direct attribution, but that doesn't mean that things aren't overall going up.
没有直接的归因，但这并不意味着事情总体上没有好转。
And then the last one is finding other podcasts that you can go on as an expert in some area.
最后一个是寻找其他播客，您可以作为某个领域的专家继续学习。
So hopefully, you're starting a podcast because you believe something is exciting in the world, you love it, you have a passion about it, you're an expert in it.
所以希望你开始播客是因为你相信世界上有一些东西是令人兴奋的，你喜欢它，你对它充满热情，你是这方面的专家。
Chris Hutchins: Take that thing and go present yourself to other podcasts.
克里斯·哈钦斯：拿着那个东西，去向其他播客展示自己。
And they all have listeners that are listening to podcasts, so it's the best medium.
他们都有收听播客的听众，所以它是最好的媒体。
Because yes, someone who likes short form, 60-second videos is maybe not the best target demo to listen to a one-hour audio only thing, those two are very different behaviors.
因为是的，喜欢 60 秒短片的人可能不是听一小时音频的最佳目标演示，这两者是非常不同的行为。
But if you can find something you're really good at and present a value add to people to come on their show, then that could help you build your audience while adding value to their audience.
但如果你能找到你真正擅长的东西，并为参加他们的节目的人们提供附加值，那么这可以帮助你建立你的观众，同时为他们的观众增加价值。
And I think as someone who gets a lot of pitches from people to come on their podcast, I will only caveat it with, do the work to make sure you're really presenting a compelling pitch.
我认为，作为一个在播客上收到很多人的推介的人，我只会警告这一点，做工作以确保你确实提出了一个引人注目的推介。
You're going to get a lot of nos, that's just how it works.
你会得到很多人的反对，这就是它的运作方式。
I've pitched myself to go on lots of shows and sometimes I get nos also.
我曾向自己推销过很多场演出，但有时也遭到拒绝。
Chris Hutchins: Many times I get nos, but I never send an email that's like someone would read it and be like, "This person obviously, doesn't know what they're talking about." But I get so many, they're like, "Oh, I'd love to have my client come on your podcast.
克里斯·哈钦斯：很多时候我都遭到拒绝，但我从来没有发送过一封电子邮件，就像有人会读到它一样，“这个人显然不知道他们在说什么。”但我得到了很多，他们就像，“哦，我很想让我的客户来你的播客。
They love talking about building a business." And I was like, "Well, I don't really interview people about that." If someone came to me and was like, "Here is a tactic to improve your life that I think your audience would benefit from and here's why my expertise makes me the best person to talk about it." I'd be much more open to it because they actually understood what my show is about.
他们喜欢谈论建立企业。”我当时想，“好吧，我并没有真正采访过人们。”如果有人来找我，说：“这是一个改善你生活的策略，我认为你的听众会从中受益，这就是为什么我的专业知识使我成为谈论这个问题的最佳人选。”我对此会更加开放，因为他们实际上了解我的节目的内容。
Lenny: Yeah, I get it.
莱尼：是的，我明白了。
At least, one email a day with one of these pitches and I know exactly what you mean.
至少，每天一封包含这些推销内容的电子邮件，我完全明白你的意思。
I generally, don't reply because it's just not even worth trying to convince them they're not a fit.
我通常不会回复，因为甚至不值得尝试说服他们他们不适合。
Lenny: Shifting gears a little bit, I want to talk about your stack, your podcasting stack.
Lenny：换个话题，我想谈谈你的堆栈，你的播客堆栈。
What do you use on the software?
你用什么软件？
What do you use the hardware?
你用什么硬件？
Mic, headphones.
麦克风，耳机。
What do you recommend?
你有什么建议吗？
Chris Hutchins: On a mic?
克里斯·哈钦斯：用麦克风？
I started out with the ATR2100X, I think it is a great entry level mic.
我开始使用 ATR2100X，我认为它是一款很棒的入门级麦克风。
It's under a $100.
不到 100 美元。
You can use old analog XLR cables if you want, but it's also USB.
如果需要，您可以使用旧的模拟 XLR 电缆，但它也是 USB。
That mic got me through 50 episodes.
那个麦克风让我看完了 50 集。
I have since upgraded to a Shure SM7B, which is the XLR compatriot to, I think you have a Shure MB7.
我后来升级到了 Shure SM7B，这是 XLR 同胞，我想你有 Shure MB7。
Lenny: Yeah, I have the USB version if that's what-
Lenny：是的，我有 USB 版本，如果是的话——
Chris Hutchins: Yeah, exactly.
克里斯·哈钦斯：是的，完全正确。
And those are two great kind of upgrade mics that I think...
我认为这是两种很棒的升级麦克风......
I like the sound quality a little better, but every time I'm traveling and I'm not sure if something's going to come up, if I can make a recording and if I have to record the intro, do a remote interview, I still carry the ATR2100X, because I just think it's an easy thing to have and it works really well.
我更喜欢音质，但每次我旅行时，我不确定是否会出现问题，是否可以录音，是否需要录制介绍，进行远程采访，我仍然携带 ATR2100X，因为我只是认为它很容易拥有，而且效果非常好。
I record everything on Riverside.
我记录了河畔的一切。
I put everything into Descript.
我将所有内容都放入了“描述”中。
I plug my XLR mic into a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, which is like a audio interface.
我将 XLR 麦克风插入 Focusrite Scarlett 2i2，它就像一个音频接口。
I would say I've gone a little bit overboard with video, so we were talking right before this started.
我想说我对视频有点太过分了，所以我们在这开始之前就开始讨论了。
I have a Sony a7C, which is like a mirrorless, full frame camera behind a $60 Amazon teleprompter so that I can make direct eye contact with the camera while an iPad that's...
我有一台索尼 a7C，它就像一台无反光镜全画幅相机，后面有一个 60 美元的亚马逊提词器，这样我就可以与相机进行直接眼神交流，而 iPad 则……
I don't know, it's like 10-year-old iPad sits under it and projects as a second screen for my computer, using this-
我不知道，就像 10 年前的 iPad 放在它下面，作为我电脑的第二个屏幕，使用这个-
Lenny: If you're not watching this YouTube, you got to check out the YouTube video at least for five seconds to see Chris just staring at you.
莱尼：如果你没有看这个 YouTube，你必须查看 YouTube 视频至少五秒钟，才能看到克里斯正盯着你看。
I've never seen this on a podcast video before.
我以前从未在播客视频中见过这个。
Chris Hutchins: So I have that set up using a iPad, running an app called Duet Display.
Chris Hutchins：所以我使用 iPad 进行了设置，运行一个名为 Duet Display 的应用程序。
I don't do the editing.
我不做编辑工作。
I've worked with one editor that uses Audition and one that uses Pro Tools.
我曾与一位使用 Audition 的编辑器和一位使用 Pro Tools 的编辑器合作过。
I don't have a strong opinion there.
我对此没有强烈的意见。
Oh, my favorite of all, my friend of mine, Brendan Mulligan, started this company called Podpage.
哦，我最喜欢的是我的朋友 Brendan Mulligan，他创办了这家名为 Podpage 的公司。
And so for people who don't know a lot about how podcasting works, there's a hosting platform, I use Simple Cast.
因此，对于不太了解播客如何运作的人来说，有一个托管平台，我使用 Simple Cast。
I liked that they were one of the only hosting platforms that has a really affordable self-serve option, but also has a really great pro, all the features that you would want in the future for monetization, everything so that you wouldn't have to switch.
我喜欢它们是唯一拥有真正实惠的自助服务选项的托管平台之一，而且还拥有非常出色的专业功能，拥有您将来想要盈利的所有功能，一切都让您无需切换。
Not to say that you know couldn't switch easily, it's pretty easy to switch.
并不是说您知道不能轻松切换，而是非常容易切换。
How it works is you upload an MP3 file, you write out all your show notes, the title of the episode, everything, and they create an RSS feed for you.
它的工作原理是，您上传 MP3 文件，写下所有节目笔记、剧集标题等所有内容，然后他们会为您创建 RSS 提要。
Chris Hutchins: You could literally just create an RSS feed, right?
Chris Huchins：您实际上可以创建一个 RSS 提要，对吗？
That's all it really is, and you could host everything on your own on AWS or something, but they make it really easy for not that much money.
这就是它真正的意义，你可以在 AWS 或其他东西上自己托管所有东西，但它们让这一切变得非常容易，而且花费不多。
And then you go distribute that RSS feed to all of these different players, so the Apple Podcast app, Spotify, et cetera.
然后你将该 RSS 源分发给所有这些不同的播放器，例如 Apple Podcast 应用程序、Spotify 等。
And one of the things that's amazing is this site Podpage, you submit the RSS feed to this website and they go in and say, "Oh, here's the description of the podcast.
令人惊奇的事情之一是这个网站 Podpage，你向这个网站提交 RSS 提要，他们进去说：“哦，这是播客的描述。
Here's each episode.
这是每一集。
Here's the cover art you submitted for that episode.
这是您为该集提交的封面艺术。
Here's the title, here's the show notes." And they just auto-generate a website for you.
这是标题，这是演出说明。”他们只是自动为您生成一个网站。
And then they give you the tools like a WordPress style set of tools to go and change the header, change the descriptions.
然后他们为你提供了一些工具，比如 WordPress 风格的工具集，可以用来更改标题、更改描述。
They're like, "You could go in and tweak things." But every night on Wednesday, or I guess Wednesday morning at 2:00 AM my podcast goes live.
他们就像是，“你可以进去调整一些东西。”但每周三晚上，或者我猜是周三早上 2:00，我的播客都会上线。
And at 2:05 Podpage has already noticed, the RSS feed is up-to-date and that site is posted.
在 2:05，Podpage 已经注意到，RSS 提要是最新的，并且该网站已发布。
I don't have to do anything.
我什么都不用做。
Chris Hutchins: They even monitor for the slug, like the URL slug I put in as a checkout.
Chris Hutchins：他们甚至会监视 slug，例如我作为结帐输入的 URL slug。
This podcast at this URL and podcast page says, "Oh, that's the URL you want them to check out.
此 URL 和播客页面上的播客说：“哦，这就是您希望他们查看的 URL。
We're going to inherit that and put it in so you don't even have to give us any information.
我们将继承它并将其放入，这样您甚至不必向我们提供任何信息。
And we'll just know the URL that you want to set this episode up on." I think that is a super simple way to build a podcasting website.
我们只会知道您想要设置此剧集的 URL。”我认为这是构建播客网站的一种超级简单的方法。
The only other thing, we didn't talk at all about analytics at all, but I use Chartable for analytics.
唯一的另一件事是，我们根本没有谈论分析，但我使用 Chartable 进行分析。
And podcast analytics are a little crazy because you don't have a lot to go on.
播客分析有点疯狂，因为你没有太多东西可以继续。
But Chartable is a really cool analytics platform that becomes really interesting when you start to cross promo with other shows or run ads for other shows or do anything like that because they basically can track IP address of downloads.
但 Chartable 是一个非常酷的分析平台，当您开始与其他节目交叉促销或为其他节目投放广告或做类似的事情时，它会变得非常有趣，因为它们基本上可以跟踪下载的 IP 地址。
Chris Hutchins: And I say track, I don't know who's listening to what from where in any kind of very specific way.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我说的是曲目，我不知道谁在以任何特定的方式从哪里听什么。
But what I do know is if I'm doing a cross promo with another show where I'm saying, "Hey, check out a podcast I love." And they're saying, "Check out a podcast I love." It actually says, "Oh, how many of the people that downloaded this episode actually went and listened to this other episode?" So you can get direct attribution of podcast listeners going from one podcast to another.
但我所知道的是，如果我正在与另一个节目进行交叉促销，我会说：“嘿，看看我喜欢的播客。”他们说，“看看我喜欢的播客。”它实际上说的是，“哦，下载了这一集的人中有多少人实际上去听了另一集？”因此，您可以获得从一个播客到另一个播客的播客听众的直接归属。
So that is a really important tool in my kind of running a podcast toolkit, but it doesn't matter as much until you start focusing on growth and doing promotions and stuff like that.
因此，在我运行播客工具包的过程中，这是一个非常重要的工具，但直到你开始关注增长并进行促销之类的事情之前，它并不那么重要。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
I host on Substack as maybe one difference.
我在 Substack 上托管，这可能是一个区别。
I use Podpage for my site, my producer/editor people actually use Descript/Descript also.
我的网站使用 Podpage，我的制作人/编辑人员实际上也使用 Descript/Descript。
That's kind of what they use for editing professionally, so it's good for amateur hour and good for professionals as well.
这就是他们用于专业编辑的方式，因此它适合业余时间，也适合专业人士。
I use Chartable, something's up with my Chartable, I think I've told you, or it doesn't count my Spotify downloads.
我使用 Chartable，我的 Chartable 出了点问题，我想我已经告诉过你了，或者它不会计入我的 Spotify 下载量。
It's kind of a pain in the butt, but it's still-
虽然有点屁股痛，但还是——
Chris Hutchins: Which is funny by the way, because for anyone listening doesn't know, Spotify actually owns Chartable.
Chris Hutchins：顺便说一句，这很有趣，因为对于任何听的人来说，都不知道 Spotify 实际上拥有 Chartable。
So the one platform your Chartable doesn't get good download data from, is the one that it is owned by.
因此，您的 Chartable 无法从中获得良好下载数据的平台就是它所拥有的平台。
Lenny: Yep.
莱尼：是的。
I do not understand what is going on.
我不明白发生了什么事。
I've talked to them and they don't know what the fix is.
我和他们谈过，他们不知道解决办法是什么。
It doesn't matter anyway.
反正没关系。
I get enough analytics other places.
我在其他地方得到了足够的分析。
There's one other site I'd recommend called Podstatus that just gives you quick access to where you're on the charts every day, gives you these cool line charts.
我推荐的另一个网站是 Podstatus，它可以让您快速访问每天在图表上的位置，并为您提供这些很酷的折线图。
Which Chartable sort of does, but it's a lot simpler on Podstatus.
Chartable 可以做到这一点，但在 Podstatus 上要简单得多。
But otherwise-
但除此之外——
Lenny: All the same stuff.
莱尼：都是一样的东西。
One other question real quick.
另一个问题很快。
Say someone launches their podcast, what would be a good download goal to aim for, when you're getting started that's like, "Maybe this is working." Do you have a sense of a threshold try to hit?
假设有人推出了他们的播客，那么什么是一个好的下载目标，当你开始时，就像是，“也许这有效”。你是否有一种想要突破的门槛？
Chris Hutchins: I wouldn't think of a threshold to hit because you could launch with a huge audience and have a terrible podcast and you might hit 10,000 downloads and it would be crazy, right?
Chris Hutchins：我不会想到要达到的门槛，因为你可能会在拥有大量受众的情况下推出一个糟糕的播客，但你可能会达到 10,000 次下载，这会很疯狂，对吗？
You would feel really good.
你会感觉非常好。
So I would care more about the direction than about the number because even the Apple charts, they're more momentum driven.
所以我更关心方向而不是数字，因为即使是苹果图表，它们也更受动力驱动。
You could have one download, but the next week you have a lot more and a lot more and a lot more.
你可能只下载了一次，但下周你会下载更多、更多、更多。
You would actually rise in the charts faster than someone whose podcast is kind of stagnant doing X number of downloads.
事实上，你在排行榜上的上升速度会比那些播客下载量停滞不前的人更快。
If you have 3000 downloads an episode or something like that, you're in the top 1% or something.
如果你的一集或类似内容的下载量达到 3000 次，那么你就属于前 1% 之类的了。
So you know, don't have to get to crazy numbers to be in the top of the charts.
所以你知道，不必达到疯狂的数字才能跻身排行榜前列。
Lenny: I heard a similar number, 3000.
莱尼：我听到过类似的数字，3000。
Chris Hutchins: The top podcasts are doing millions in episode, but that's like top 10, top 20, top 30.
Chris Hutchins：顶级播客的单集播放量达到数百万，但这就像前 10 名、前 20 名、前 30 名。
The next tranche of the top 50 are doing probably hundreds of thousands of downloads.
前 50 名中的下一部分可能会获得数十万次下载。
But outside of the top two, 300, it's in the 10,000s of downloads per episode.
但除了前两名（300 部）之外，每集的下载量也达到了 10,000 次。
And this is a little bit variable if you have a daily show or a weekly show or something.
如果你有每日节目或每周节目或其他节目，这会有点变化。
But I would say if you cross 10,000 downloads an episode, you are now taken seriously by a lot of people.
但我想说，如果你一集的下载量突破 10,000 次，那么你现在就会受到很多人的重视。
So I had conversations early on with networks like iHeartMedia and different podcast networks that wanted to bring in the show and would do all that, and that all started at 10 to 15, maybe 20,000 downloads an episode.
因此，我很早就与 iHeartMedia 等网络和不同的播客网络进行了对话，他们希望引入该节目并愿意做这一切，而这一切都是从每集 10 到 15，也许 20,000 次下载开始的。
But by no means would I expect anyone to get there right away.
但我绝不期望有人能立即到达那里。
Even I didn't get there right away.
即使我也没有立即到达那里。
It took time even with a few friends to make announcements and stuff, it took time.
即使是和几个朋友一起发布公告之类的事情也需要时间，这需要时间。
Chris Hutchins: So forget how many downloads you get on your first three episodes because you're probably going to tell everyone in the world and you're going to use all your social capital to boost those.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以忘记你在前三集中获得了多少下载量，因为你可能会告诉世界上的每个人，并且你将使用你所有的社交资本来提高这些下载量。
And then look at how many downloads you get on your fourth and fifth and sixth and does it go up?
然后看看您在第四、第五和第六次获得的下载量是否有所上升？
Does it stay stagnant?
它会保持停滞状态吗？
Apple and Spotify actually give you really cool data about how long people are listening.
Apple 和 Spotify 实际上可以提供有关人们收听音乐时长的非常酷的数据。
Do they drop off halfway through?
他们会中途掉下来吗？
You could start to be like, "Oh, do people stay for the whole episode?" I will say I haven't found a good site for benchmarks, but it's like the average podcast I think probably has less than 50% of listeners by the end.
你可能会开始说，“哦，人们会留下来看整集吗？”我想说的是，我还没有找到一个好的基准网站，但这就像我认为到最后可能只有不到 50% 的听众的平均播客。
So don't be turned off when you say, "Wow, only 40% of people made it to the end." That's not horrible.
因此，当您说“哇，只有 40% 的人坚持到了最后”时，请不要感到沮丧。那并不可怕。
I think my best episode, it might be like 65 or 70% of people made it all the way to the end.
我认为我最好的一集，可能有 65% 或 70% 的人坚持到了最后。
It's not 99.
这不是99。
Lenny: What I like about those charts is you can see what percentage of people skip the ads and then just keep continuing.
莱尼：我喜欢这些图表的一点是，你可以看到有多少人跳过广告，然后继续继续。
It's like a bump-
就好像一个肿块一样——
Chris Hutchins: And it's not as high as I thought.
克里斯·哈钦斯：而且没有我想象的那么高。
Lenny: Any last words of wisdom on the world of podcasting?
莱尼：关于播客世界还有什么智慧的话吗？
Starting a podcast?
开始播客？
Continuing a podcast?
继续播客吗？
Chris Hutchins: Yeah, I've got three things for you.
克里斯·哈钦斯：是的，我有三件事要告诉你。
One, this is a little bit of a financial outlay, but I think it's really interesting.
第一，这只是一点点的财务支出，但我认为这真的很有趣。
There's this podcast app called Overcast, and it's not the biggest in the world, but you can run ads in it.
有一个名为 Overcast 的播客应用程序，它不是世界上最大的，但您可以在其中投放广告。
And the thing I like is that the ads are much more reasonably priced than a lot of other places and they're very dynamic.
我喜欢的一点是，这些广告的价格比许多其他地方更合理，而且非常有活力。
So I would encourage anyone listening to watch it for a few weeks if you have a podcast and you want to experiment, because the same ad could be $200 one week and $700 the next week depending on how much demand there is for that category.
因此，如果您有播客并且想尝试一下，我会鼓励任何听众观看几周，因为同一广告可能一周 200 美元，下周 700 美元，具体取决于该类别的需求量。
So you can wait and hold out.
所以你可以等待并坚持下去。
But what I like is they take your art from your podcast and then you can rewrite your description and they tell you how many people saw the ad, how many people tapped on it, and how many people subscribed to the podcast after seeing the ad.
但我喜欢的是他们从你的播客中获取你的艺术，然后你可以重写你的描述，他们会告诉你有多少人看到了这个广告，有多少人点击了它，以及有多少人在看到广告后订阅了播客。
Chris Hutchins: And technically they could also listen to the trailer, they could listen to an episode.
克里斯·哈钦斯：从技术上讲，他们还可以听预告片，他们可以听一集。
And they even give you benchmarks of what to expect.
他们甚至为您提供了预期的基准。
So for a few hundred dollars, you could go in and run an ad for your podcast.
因此，只需花费几百美元，您就可以为您的播客投放广告。
Now, I would say in all of the experiments I've done with them, I've probably garnered...
现在，我想说，在我用它们所做的所有实验中，我可能已经获得了……
I'm looking at some numbers, like hundreds of subscribers, not thousands.
我正在查看一些数字，例如数百个订阅者，而不是数千个。
And I've probably spent maybe a $1,000.
我大概花了 1,000 美元。
The average cost to acquire a podcast listener, if you're doing paid marketing is about anywhere from three to $10 depending on the appeal of your show, what kind of audience?
如果您正在进行付费营销，获得播客听众的平均成本约为 3 到 10 美元，具体取决于您的节目的吸引力以及什么样的观众？
I'm sure it could go way over that for a business show.
我确信对于商业展览来说，它的意义远远超出了它。
And by business I mean, B2B focused kind of show.
我所说的商业是指以 B2B 为重点的展会。
So, let's call it $5.
所以，我们称之为 5 美元。
So it's not going to be the best way to grow your audience.
因此，这并不是增加受众的最佳方式。
At some point, if you're at enough scale that you have ads in your show and how much a customer's worth, maybe it makes sense to pay $5 because your LTV of a podcast listener is $7.
在某些时候，如果您的规模足够大，可以在节目中投放广告以及客户的价值，那么支付 5 美元也许是有意义的，因为您的播客听众的 LTV 是 7 美元。
But getting it started, that's not you.
但一开始，那不是你。
Chris Hutchins: What you can do is say, "Okay, what was my click-through rate on the ad?" Which will tell you if someone doesn't click, it's either not a good description or it's not a good set of content, or your cover art's not good.
克里斯·哈钦斯：你能做的就是说：“好吧，我对广告的点击率是多少？”如果有人没有点击，它会告诉您，这要么不是一个好的描述，要么不是一组好的内容，或者您的封面艺术不好。
So you can think about, "Okay, I actually need to figure out the podcast before I even have content." And you could run this ad with a trailer before you even record anything.
所以你可以想一想，“好吧，我实际上需要在获得内容之前弄清楚播客。”您甚至可以在录制任何内容之前就先播放此广告并播放预告片。
And then it's like, "Okay, well people tapped on it, how many of them subscribed?" And I like to use this as a way to say, "Okay, well the benchmark said I was going to get about 50 subscriptions for this ad that was going to get a thousand taps and I got seven." So these aren't people who weren't interested.
然后就好像，“好吧，人们点击了它，有多少人订阅了？”我喜欢用这个来表达：“好吧，基准测试显示，我将获得大约 50 个订阅该广告的订阅，该广告将获得 1000 次点击，而我得到了 7 次点击。”所以这些人并不是不感兴趣。
These are people who read the description, were like, this is interesting, and they didn't subscribe.
这些人阅读了描述，觉得这很有趣，但他们没有订阅。
Chris Hutchins: That means my content probably sucks.
克里斯·哈钦斯：这意味着我的内容可能很糟糕。
That means someone listened to a trailer or an episode or something more than the description in the image and decided, "This is not for me." Maybe they looked at your episodes, I don't know.
这意味着有人听了预告片、剧集或图像中描述之外的其他内容，并决定“这不适合我”。也许他们看了你的剧集，我不知道。
But if they don't tap on it, if you're supposed to get a 2% click-through rate and you get 0.5, then it's actually the topic or the way I describe it or the cover sucks.
但如果他们不点击它，如果你应该获得 2% 的点击率，而你却得到了 0.5，那么这实际上是主题或我描述它的方式或封面很糟糕。
And so I like that as a way to, for a few hundred dollars, get a good test.
所以我喜欢这样，花几百美元就可以得到很好的测试。
I've even thought of running an AB test of the same podcast with two different descriptions.
我什至想过用两种不同的描述对同一播客进行 AB 测试。
I wish you could do it with two different cover arts.
我希望你能用两种不同的封面艺术来做到这一点。
So I don't know, that's like a cheap way to do a little bit of testing.
所以我不知道，这就像进行一些测试的廉价方法。
One other thing that I'll share is I just try to share the podcast everywhere.
我要分享的另一件事是我只是尝试在任何地方分享播客。
Chris Hutchins: So you've probably noticed that in all of my emails at the bottom, it's like, "Oh, great, talk to you Chris." And then it says, "Hey, want to upgrade your life, money or travel?
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以你可能已经注意到，在我底部的所有电子邮件中，都是这样的，“哦，太好了，克里斯，和你谈谈。”然后它说：“嘿，想要提升你的生活、金钱或旅行吗？
Check out my podcast and newsletter." I'm taking every opportunity I can to let anyone know about it because you never know it'll happen.
看看我的播客和时事通讯。”我正在利用一切机会让任何人知道这件事，因为你永远不知道它会发生。
And my favorite example, especially, when it's written that it doesn't come across a big bulky signature was we bought some floor mats and one of them didn't fit.
我最喜欢的例子，尤其是当它写到它没有遇到一个大而笨重的签名时，我们买了一些脚垫，但其中一个不合适。
And I was going back and forth with the customer service person and they actually replied and they were like, "Oh, thanks for sending me that podcast.
我和客户服务人员来回交流，他们实际上回复了，“哦，谢谢你给我发送那个播客。
I really appreciate it." They thought I was just randomly telling them, "Hey, if you want to upgrade your life, check this out." They didn't know it was my signature.
我真的很感激。”他们认为我只是随意告诉他们，“嘿，如果你想升级你的生活，看看这个。”他们不知道这是我的签名。
So I got a new listener from customer service from a floor mat company.
因此，我从一家地垫公司的客户服务处得到了一位新听众。
Which by the way, here's one hack that I also learned from the floor mat company.
顺便说一下，这是我从地垫公司学到的一个技巧。
Chris Hutchins: Come to my show for hacks, but if you're ever trying to get a deal on something, that floor mat company, I just pulled up the live chat and just asked.
克里斯·哈钦斯：来参加我的节目是为了黑客，但如果你想在某件事上达成交易，那家地垫公司，我只是打开实时聊天并询问。
And I said, "Hey, I'm looking at these floor mats, think you could give me a discount.
我说：“嘿，我正在看这些脚垫，我想你可以给我折扣。
It's a little expensive." And it was like, "Yeah, refresh your cart.
有点贵。”就像是，“是的，刷新你的购物车。
It'll be 15% off." So, this episode's not about all the hacks, but there's one cool one.
将会有 15% 的折扣。”所以，这一集并不是关于所有的黑客，但有一个很酷的黑客。
Lenny: We need more hacks.
莱尼：我们需要更多的技巧。
Wait, I think we'll get to that at the end.
等等，我想我们最终会谈到这一点。
Keep going.
继续前进。
Chris Hutchins: And then the last is, I think it's fun, that podcast you can experiment.
克里斯·哈钦斯：最后一个是，我认为这很有趣，你可以尝试一下播客。
I started out doing guests and then I did some Q&A episodes from questions listeners asked me, and then I recently did some solo episodes.
我开始做嘉宾，然后我根据听众问我的问题做了一些问答节目，然后我最近做了一些独奏节目。
I was really interested in the idea of all the ways you can rent and swap and exchange your home to stay in vacation homes around the world.
我对通过租赁、互换和交换房屋来入住世界各地的度假屋的所有方式非常感兴趣。
So I just researched it for, I don't know, two or three days and just did a 45-minute episode of me talking.
所以我只是研究了，我不知道，两三天，然后做了一个 45 分钟的谈话片段。
There was no guest, there were no questions, it was just me talking.
没有客人，没有问题，只有我在说话。
And that works.
那行得通。
I'm going to start another series of episodes where instead of interviewing people about an expertise topic, I'm going to interview people who are really dialed into a country.
我将开始另一系列的剧集，我将采访真正熟悉某个国家的人，而不是采访有关专业知识主题的人。
So I've got a guy who's written a handful of the Lonely Planet guidebook for Japan and is in Japan right now for three weeks getting dialed in, what are the latest, coolest stuff.
我有一个人写了一些日本的《孤独星球》指南，现在在日本呆了三个星期，正在拨通电话，了解哪些是最新、最酷的东西。
Chris Hutchins: He's going to come back and we're just going to record an episode about everything you need to know about going to Japan.
克里斯·哈钦斯：他会回来，我们只是要录制一集，讲述关于去日本你需要知道的一切。
And I'm going to add on about 15 minutes I think at the end without him, where I just talk about all the tricks for using your points, your miles, deals and discounts.
最后，我想在没有他的情况下，我将添加大约 15 分钟的内容，我将在其中讨论使用积分、里程、优惠和折扣的所有技巧。
Like there's this new airline in LA that's super cheap to fly to Japan, but it comes with some caveats.
就像洛杉矶有一家新航空公司，飞往日本的机票超级便宜，但也有一些注意事项。
So it'll be like two thirds guide to going to Japan, one third guide to getting there for cheap.
因此，这就像三分之二的去日本指南，三分之一的指南以便宜的价格到达那里。
And there aren't a lot of businesses or ideas where you could just have all of these things that you can experiment with.
并没有很多企业或想法可以让你拥有所有这些你可以尝试的东西。
Lenny: And then you could do them so fast.
莱尼：然后你就能很快地完成它们。
Yeah,
是的，
Chris Hutchins: If I interview you, which I'm doing right after this, so anyone listening to this that wants to hear a little of Lenny's story, come check out All the Hacks.
克里斯·哈钦斯：如果我采访你，我会在这之后立即采访你，所以任何想听这个故事并想听听莱尼故事的人，都可以来看看《All the Hacks》。
And for 20 minutes we talk about some topic that's a little off topic.
我们用了 20 分钟讨论了一些有点偏离主题的话题。
I've sometimes just taken that it's submitted it as a bonus episode on Friday.
我有时只是认为它是在周五作为奖励剧集提交的。
15, 20 minutes, it's not my regular show, but there's so many ways you can experiment and find out what you like.
15、20 分钟，这不是我的常规节目，但是有很多方法你可以尝试并找出你喜欢的内容。
And then you might say, "Wow, you know what?
然后你可能会说，“哇，你知道吗？
I really like doing the solo things." Or maybe you have a co-host on for a week and you're like, "Ah, that's so much better."
我真的很喜欢独自做事情。”或者也许你有一个共同主持人一周，你会想，“啊，那好多了。”
Chris Hutchins: So I just love that it gives you a good opportunity to experiment with stuff, find the thing you love, because I think my big takeaway is once you find the thing you really love to talk about, all of that, it just makes everything so much easier because it's natural and you would do it for free.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以我喜欢它给了你一个很好的机会去尝试东西，找到你喜欢的东西，因为我认为我最大的收获是一旦你找到了你真正喜欢谈论的东西，所有这一切，它只会让一切变得更加容易，因为它是自然的，而且你会免费做它。
And the harsh reality of this whole game is like there's probably going to be a number of months or years you have to do it for free before it takes off.
整个游戏的残酷现实就像你可能需要几个月或几年的时间才能免费玩它。
So if you don't love it, that's going to be a painful few years.
所以，如果你不爱它，那这几年将会是痛苦的。
Lenny: To build on that, I find the same thing with a newsletter, same with a podcast.
莱尼：在此基础上，我发现时事通讯和播客也有同样的情况。
The last thing you want to do is create a job for yourself that you hate.
你最不想做的就是为自己创造一份你讨厌的工作。
And so picking a topic that is just not interesting to you, picking a medium that is painful to you, there's no reason to do that.
因此，选择一个你不感兴趣的主题，选择一个让你痛苦的媒介，没有理由这样做。
You may become a TikTok star and you hit a viral video, but then you have to make viral videos for the rest of your life.
你可能会成为 TikTok 明星，并且发布了一个病毒式视频，但你的余生都必须制作病毒式视频。
That's no fun.
那没什么好玩的。
You have to think about, "Do I want to do this for years and years and years." And you can stop, but then becomes hard if it becomes a really good source of income.
你必须思考，“我是否想多年来一直这样做。”你可以停下来，但如果它成为一个真正好的收入来源，那么就会变得困难。
So that's something to think about, just don't create a job for yourself that you just don't want.
所以这是需要考虑的事情，只是不要为自己创造一个你不想要的工作。
Lenny: With that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round.
莱尼：这样，我们就进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。
I don't know if you knew this was coming.
我不知道你是否知道这一切即将到来。
So it'll be extra special, real quick, easy, whatever comes to mind, let me know, and then we'll see how it all goes.
所以这将是特别的、真正的快速、简单，无论想到什么，请告诉我，然后我们会看看一切进展如何。
Does that sound good?
听起来不错吗？
Lenny: What are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people recently or in life in general?
莱尼：您最近或生活中向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？
Chris Hutchins: Two, I love.
克里斯·哈钦斯：两个，我喜欢。
Actually, this could be three, Happy Money is a fantastic book.
实际上，这可能是三本，《快乐金钱》是一本很棒的书。
All about ways that you can spend your money to optimize for happiness.
所有关于如何花钱来优化幸福感的方法。
It's like a collection of a ton of research about the science of happier spending, so that's one.
这就像关于快乐消费的科学的大量研究的集合，所以这就是其中之一。
Vagabonding by Rolf Potts, who I had the pleasure...
罗尔夫·波茨的《流浪者》，我很高兴……
The last two I've had the pleasure of interviewing recently.
最近我有幸采访了最后两位。
It's like a guide to long-term travel, but it's just kind of a different perspective on travel.
它就像一本长期旅行指南，但只是对旅行的不同视角。
I would say if you're at the point in your life where you now have kids, it's probably going to be hard to live up to that.
我想说，如果你现在已经有了孩子，那么你可能很难做到这一点。
But I have gifted that book to so many people who are like, "Oh, I think I should take a trip for six months." I'm like, "Go read this book." My wife and I travel around the World for seven months, and that book was instrumental to us taking it and how we lived on that.
但我已经把这本书送给了很多人，他们会说：“哦，我想我应该去旅行六个月。”我想，“去读这本书吧。”我和我的妻子环游世界七个月，那本书对我们接受它以及我们如何以此为生很有帮助。
Chris Hutchins: And then the last is called Die with Zero by Bill Perkins.
克里斯·哈钦斯：最后一个是比尔·帕金斯的《零死》。
And that book probably had the biggest impact.
那本书可能影响最大。
I haven't gifted it to anyone.
我没有把它送给任何人。
I've recommended it heavily the last week because it had a huge impact on me.
上周我大力推荐了它，因为它对我产生了巨大的影响。
And the fundamental premise of the book is that, this isn't very lightning round response, but instead of optimizing for money, which is so tied up in American culture of how do I make more, how do I get promoted?
这本书的基本前提是，这不是一个闪电般的回应，而是不是为了金钱而优化，这与我如何赚更多钱、如何升职的美国文化如此紧密相关？
How do I earn more money, how do I save more money?
怎样才能赚更多的钱，怎样才能存更多的钱？
We should really be optimizing for the net fulfillment in life, and we shouldn't be trying to save all of this money.
我们确实应该优化生活中的净成就感，而不应该试图节省所有这些钱。
We should actually be trying to allocate it over our lives in the most optimal way to increase experiences, increase fulfillment, increase happiness.
实际上，我们应该尝试以最优化的方式将其分配到我们的生活中，以增加体验、增加成就感、增加幸福感。
And sometimes that means saving less when you're younger and you're more able to do things like backpack around the world for seven months or go bungee jumping.
有时，这意味着当您年轻时，您可以减少储蓄，并且更有能力做一些事情，例如背包环游世界七个月或去蹦极。
And when you build those experiences early on, the memories of those experience pay dividends, the rest of your life.
当你尽早积累这些经历时，这些经历的记忆就会为你的余生带来好处。
Lenny: Good choices.
莱尼：不错的选择。
What's a favorite other podcast, other than your podcast and my podcast?
除了你的播客和我的播客之外，你最喜欢的其他播客是什么？
Chris Hutchins: I love Animal Spirits.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我喜欢动物精神。
If you're into markets, life and investing.
如果您热衷于市场、生活和投资。
And they always have good recommendations at the end also on podcasts, TV shows, books, movies, that kind of stuff.
他们最后总是对播客、电视节目、书籍、电影等内容提出很好的推荐。
So that's one I really like.
所以这是我非常喜欢的一个。
Lenny: What's a favorite recent movie or TV show that you've really enjoyed?
莱尼：你最近最喜欢的电影或电视节目是什么？
Chris Hutchins: A show that I love, which I think is kind of like a version of a show called Silicon Valley, but not, it's called Mythic Quests on Apple TV.
Chris Hutchins：我喜欢的一个节目，我认为它有点像《硅谷》节目的一个版本，但不是，它在 Apple TV 上被称为《神话任务》。
And I haven't heard enough people talking about this that I felt like maybe it's a hidden gem.
我还没有听到足够多的人谈论这个，所以我觉得这可能是一个隐藏的宝石。
Maybe I'm amongst company of watching this show, but I think it's a funny show.
也许我是在看这个节目的人之一，但我认为这是一个有趣的节目。
It's lighthearted, it makes me happy, and hopefully at least a few people haven't checked it out.
它很轻松，让我很高兴，希望至少有一些人还没有看过它。
But it's like a startup life show, but just dragged out to the extreme like Silicon Valley was.
但这就像一场创业生活秀，只是像硅谷一样拖到了极端。
Lenny: What's a favorite interview question that you like to ask on your podcast?
莱尼：您在播客上最喜欢问的采访问题是什么？
Chris Hutchins: I like to try to ask people about their favorite misconceptions in a space.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我喜欢尝试询问人们他们在空间中最喜欢的误解。
Yeah, I like to kick things off usually with, "What's a thing that you kind of have a contrarian take on or you think most people get wrong about the thing that best?"
是的，我通常喜欢这样开始：“你对什么事情有逆向看法，或者你认为大多数人对最好的事情都错了？”
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
Final question.
最后一个问题。
What are your three favorite money hacks that listeners can take action on soon?
您最喜欢的三种赚钱技巧是什么，听众可以很快采取行动？
Chris Hutchins: Okay.
克里斯·哈钦斯：好的。
One that has paid dividends and literally, I've had people on a podcast telling them, write back to me, guests that are like, "I just saved money." So go to your state's unclaimed money website.
一个已经带来红利的人，从字面上看，我在播客上告诉他们，给我回信，客人们说，“我刚刚省了钱。”因此，请访问您所在州的无人认领资金网站。
Every state has one, and you can go put in your name, state or city, you don't even have to give your address.
每个州都有一个，你可以输入你的名字、州或城市，甚至不需要提供你的地址。
And you can find whether there are people that owe you money.
并且可以查到是否有人欠你钱。
And oftentimes they're businesses like you moved and Comcast couldn't figure out how to get you the final part of your prepaid month.
通常，他们是像您这样的企业，而康卡斯特无法弄清楚如何让您获得预付费月的最后部分。
And I had someone message me the other day and they're like, "I just listened to you talk about unclaimed money on a podcast, and I just found $136.
有一天，有人给我发消息，他们说：“我刚刚听你在播客上谈论无人认领的钱，我刚刚发现了 136 美元。
I've never gotten paid to listen to a podcast." People have saved hundreds, some people, thousands.
我从来没有因为听播客而获得报酬。”人们拯救了数百人，有些人，甚至数千人。
I always say, if you're going to dinner party, you now know someone's address.
我总是说，如果你要去参加晚宴，你现在就知道某人的地址了。
Chris Hutchins: You probably know their name instead of bringing a bottle of wine or in addition, just check if they have unclaimed money.
克里斯·哈钦斯：你可能知道他们的名字，而不是带一瓶酒，或者另外，只需检查他们是否有无人认领的钱。
I brought over to a bottle of wine to someone's house and said, "Also, by the way, did you know that this pharmaceutical company owes you $200?" And I showed him how to go claim it and boom, free money.
我拿了一瓶酒到某人家，说道：“还有，你知道这家制药公司欠你200美元吗？”我向他展示了如何领取这笔钱，然后就得到了免费的钱。
What a great conversation for the dinner table.
餐桌上的谈话真是太棒了。
So that's one great one I love.
所以这是我很喜欢的一个伟大的事情。
Another great one, you can't use it right now unless you have a trip planned.
另一个很棒的功能是，除非您计划旅行，否则您现在无法使用它。
But anytime you're booking a hotel book directly with the hotel and email the hotel in advance that, "Hey, we booked.
但无论何时，您预订酒店时都可以直接向酒店预订，并提前向酒店发送电子邮件说：“嘿，我们预订了。
We're really excited to stay with you." If you're celebrating something, let them know.
我们真的很高兴能和你在一起。”如果您正在庆祝某事，请让他们知道。
And if you can't get the email address, just call the front desk, ask for an email address, follow up a couple days before you get there, let them know you're coming.
如果您无法获得电子邮件地址，只需致电前台，索要电子邮件地址，在到达前几天进行跟进，让他们知道您要来。
Chris Hutchins: And I would say, you've got a 50% chance of getting an upgrade, getting a bottle of wine, getting some comped something, getting a better view.
克里斯·哈钦斯：我想说，你有 50% 的机会获得升级、获得一瓶葡萄酒、获得一些免费的东西、获得更好的视野。
One person wrote into me letting me know that the hotel had their initials embroidered on their pillow, which I thought was kind of a crazy thing to have happen.
有人写信给我，告诉我酒店的枕头上绣着他们名字的首字母，我认为发生这种事有点疯狂。
It's never happened to me.
这从来没有发生在我身上。
Personally, I'd rather have the bottle of wine, but I'll take that for what it is.
就我个人而言，我宁愿要一瓶酒，但我会接受它的本来面目。
And for people who like the points game, I'll share something.
对于喜欢积分游戏的人，我会分享一些东西。
Just give you a little tease of how I love finding all the points and miles optimizations.
只是给你一个小玩笑，告诉你我是多么喜欢寻找所有的积分和里程优化。
If you have a credit card that pays multiple points, three, four, or five x points on things like a grocery store or an office supply store, anything like that, drug stores, that's great.
如果您有一张信用卡，可以在杂货店或办公用品商店、药店等商店支付多点、三点、四点或五点x点，那就太好了。
You probably don't have a card that pays any multiple of points on home improvements or Home Depot, Lowes.
您可能没有一张卡可以在家居装修或 Home Depot, Lowes 上支付任何倍数的积分。
Chris Hutchins: So what I like to do to make sure I get the most points I can, instead of going to Home Depot and paying with a card that's going to give me one point per dollar at Home Depot.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以我喜欢做的就是确保我能获得最多的积分，而不是去家得宝并用一张卡支付，在家得宝每美元可以给我一个积分。
I have a four x grocery card.
我有一张四张杂货卡。
I like to go to Safeway and I just buy Home Depot gift cards.
我喜欢去 Safeway，我只买家得宝 (Home Depot) 礼品卡。
I get my four x points on the gift cards, then I go buy stuff at Home Depot knowing that I got four x points.
我在礼品卡上得到了 4 个 x 积分，然后我去家得宝 (Home Depot) 买东西，因为我知道我得到了 4 个 x 积分。
But you also have some cards that give you three or four x points, if you go to CVS or other pharmacies or drug stores, you can do it there.
但你也有一些卡可以给你三到四个x点，如果你去CVS或其他药房或药店，你可以在那里办理。
You can do it at Office Supply stores if you want to take it to the next extreme.
如果您想将其发挥到下一个极端，您可以在办公用品商店进行。
If you have an Amazon card, you could buy Amazon gift cards and get your five x or 5% back on the Amazon Prime card.
如果您有亚马逊卡，您可以购买亚马逊礼品卡并通过亚马逊 Prime 卡获得 5 倍或 5% 的返利。
Chris Hutchins: So I'm a little crazy like that.
克里斯·哈钦斯：所以我有点疯狂。
My favorite is if you're trying to buy something at a store, always shop online for coupons.
我最喜欢的是，如果您想在商店买东西，请务必在网上购买优惠券。
If you Google like Lowes, Home Depot, Crate & Barrel coupons, there's all these websites.
如果您在 Google 上搜索 Lowes、Home Depot、Crate & Barrel 优惠券，所有这些网站都可以找到。
My favorite one is Save n, the letter, deals.com.
我最喜欢的是 Save n，字母，deals.com。
You could buy Home Depot and Crate & Barrel coupons online for a couple bucks, save 15%.
您可以花几美元在线购买 Home Depot 和 Crate & Barrel 优惠券，节省 15%。
So stack up and then the cashback portals.
因此，先堆积起来，然后再现金返还门户。
I'm going to buy something, I'm like, "How do I get the cashback portal?
我要买东西，我想，“我如何获得现金返还门户？
How do I get the most points per dollar on my card?
如何通过卡上的每一美元获得最多积分？
And how do I get a discount maybe from asking in the live chat or going in and buying a coupon." So I go a little crazy on that stuff, but I love saving money and just feeling like I got a good deal.
我如何获得折扣，也许可以通过在实时聊天中询问或进去购买优惠券来获得。”所以我对这些东西有点疯狂，但我喜欢省钱，而且感觉我得到了一笔划算的交易。
Lenny: Amazing.
莱尼：太棒了。
What an action packed episode we had.
我们的情节真是充满动感啊。
We got money hacks, we got big bets, we got podcasting, we got Self-Driving Money.
我们有金钱黑客，我们有大赌注，我们有播客，我们有自动驾驶金钱。
What a conversation.
多么好的对话啊。
Chris, this was amazing.
克里斯，这太棒了。
Two last questions.
最后两个问题。
How do folks find you online, where do they find your podcast?
人们如何在网上找到您，在哪里找到您的播客？
And then how can folks be useful to you?
那么人们如何对你有用呢？
Chris Hutchins: All the Hacks wherever fine podcasts are produced for your ears search or go to allthehacks.com or check out the newsletter, just allthehacks.com/email, or you can find it on the website.
Chris Hutchins：All the Hacks，无论哪里都有精美的播客可供您搜索或访问 allthehacks.com 或查看时事通讯，只需 allthehacks.com/email，或者您可以在网站上找到它。
That's it.
就是这样。
How can you be helpful to me?
你能帮我什么忙？
Check out the show.
看看演出吧。
Let me know what you think.
让我知道你的想法。
Let me know what you like.
让我知道你喜欢什么。
Let me know what topics you want me to focus on optimizing in the future.
让我知道您希望我未来重点优化哪些主题。
I've mentioned I'm always trying to make stuff that someone's favorite, so if there are things you want to hear me go deep on, let me know.
我已经提到过，我一直在努力制作别人最喜欢的东西，所以如果你想听我深入探讨一些事情，请告诉我。
I'm just chris@allthehacks.com and I try to respond to everyone in some reasonable amount of time.
我只是 chris@allthehacks.com，我尝试在合理的时间内回复每个人。
And if I haven't responded in a couple weeks, nudge me and remind me.
如果我在几周内没有回复，请轻推我并提醒我。
But I'd love to hear from you.
但我很想听听你的消息。
I'd love to produce more content for you, and I'm excited that we have this conversation, and I'm excited to record one with you right after this.
我很乐意为您制作更多内容，我很高兴我们能进行这次对话，并且我很高兴在这之后立即与您录制一个内容。
Lenny: Oh my God, here we go.
莱尼：天哪，我们开始了。
Chris, thank you for being here.
克里斯，谢谢你来到这里。
Lenny: Thank you so much for listening.
莱尼：非常感谢您的聆听。
If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcast、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。
Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.
另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。
You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.
您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。
See you in the next episode.
下一集见。