The art of building legendary brands | Arielle Jackson (Google, Square, First Round Capital)
Arielle Jackson: So over time, a word can come to mean something that is beyond what that actual word means.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：随着时间的推移，一个词的含义可能会超出该词的实际含义。
Like Disney means magic today.
就像今天的迪士尼意味着魔法一样。
Volvo means safety.
沃尔沃意味着安全。
Those names are not good.
这些名字都不好听
If I just put it in a spreadsheet or one of those lists, no one would pick it.
如果我只是将其放入电子表格或其中一个列表中，没有人会选择它。
So that's kind of what I mean, that the name is just part of the overall marketing or the overall brand and a bad name with a really great company with great company strategy, great marketing is going to be great over time.
这就是我的意思，这个名字只是整体营销或整体品牌的一部分，对于一家拥有伟大公司战略的真正伟大的公司来说，一个坏名声，随着时间的推移，伟大的营销将会变得伟大。
And a good name is just going to help you, but I don't think a bad name is going to kill a good company.
一个好名字只会对你有帮助，但我不认为坏名字会毁掉一家好公司。
Lenny: Arielle Jackson spent nine years at Google, where she helped grow Gmail in its early days, taking it from just a side project to a product that is now used by hundreds of millions of people all over the world.
Lenny：Arielle Jackson 在 Google 工作了 9 年，她帮助 Gmail 发展初期，将其从一个业余项目发展成为现在全世界数亿人使用的产品。
Then she went on to Square, where she was one of the first marketers and helped launch and scale the growth of Square reader.
然后，她进入 Square，成为首批营销人员之一，帮助推出 Square 阅读器并扩大其增长。
She's also worked with over 100 early stage companies, helping them nail their brand and marketing efforts, including Patreon, Loom, Front, Eero, Maven, Sprig, just to name a few.
她还与 100 多家早期公司合作，帮助他们完善品牌和营销工作，其中包括 Patreon、Loom、Front、Eero、Maven、Sprig 等。
Lenny: These days, she teaches a super popular course on startup brand strategy and she's a marketer in residence at First Round capital.
Lenny：最近，她教授一门非常受欢迎的创业品牌战略课程，并且是 First Round Capital 的常驻营销人员。
In our chat, we cover primarily three things, naming strategies for your startup or your product, a framework for developing your brand, that includes your purpose, your positioning, and your personality, and also getting PR for your startup.
在我们的聊天中，我们主要讨论三件事：为你的初创公司或你的产品命名策略，开发你的品牌的框架，包括你的目的、你的定位和你的个性，以及为你的初创公司获得公关。
I can't wait for you to listen to this conversation with Arielle.
我迫不及待地想让你听一下与阿莉尔的对话。
And so with that, I bring you Arielle Jackson.
因此，我为您带来了阿莉尔·杰克逊。
Lenny: Hey, Ashley, head of marketing at Flatfile, how many B2B SaaS companies would you estimate need to import CSV files from their customers?
Lenny：嘿，Ashley，Flatfile 的营销主管，您估计有多少家 B2B SaaS 公司需要从客户那里导入 CSV 文件？
Lenny: And how many of them screw that up?
莱尼：有多少人把事情搞砸了？
And what happens when they do?
当他们这样做时会发生什么？
Ashley: Well?
阿什利：嗯？
Based on our data, about a third of people will consider switching to another company after just one bad experience during onboarding.
根据我们的数据，大约三分之一的人在入职期间经历过一次糟糕的经历后就会考虑跳槽到另一家公司。
So if your CSV importer doesn't work right, which is super common, considering customer files are chock-full of unexpected data and formatting, they'll leave.
因此，如果您的 CSV 导入器无法正常工作（这种情况非常常见），考虑到客户文件中充满了意外的数据和格式，他们就会离开。
Lenny: I am 0% surprised to hear that.
Lenny：听到这个消息我感到 0% 惊讶。
I'm consistently seeing that improving onboarding is one of the highest leverage opportunities for both signup conversion and increasing long-term retention.
我一直认为，改善入职是注册转化和提高长期保留率的最高杠杆机会之一。
Getting people to your aha moment more quickly and reliably is so incredibly important.
让人们更快、更可靠地进入顿悟时刻非常重要。
Ashley: Totally.
阿什利：完全可以。
It's incredible to see how our customers like Square, Spotify and Zuora are able to grow their businesses on top of Flatfile.
看到 Square、Spotify 和 Zuora 等客户如何能够在 Flatfile 上发展业务，真是令人难以置信。
It's because data onboarding acts like a catalyst to get them and their customers where they need to go faster.
这是因为数据引导就像催化剂一样，让他们及其客户更快地到达需要的地方。
Lenny: If you'd like to learn more or get started, check out Flatfile at flatfile.com/lenny.
Lenny：如果您想了解更多信息或开始使用，请访问 flatfile.com/lenny 查看 Flatfile。
Lenny: This episode is brought to you by unit.
莱尼：这一集是由单位给你带来的。
What did Gusto, Uber, Shopify and AngelList all have in common?
Gusto、Uber、Shopify 和 AngelList 有什么共同点？
They've all decided to build banking into their product.
他们都决定将银行业务融入到他们的产品中。
According to AngelList head of product, banking makes every single feature more interesting.
AngelList 产品负责人表示，银行业务让每一项功能都变得更加有趣。
With it, our platform functions as financial mission control for our customers.
有了它，我们的平台就可以为客户提供财务任务控制。
Without it, we're just another software tool in a big messy stack.
没有它，我们只是一个混乱的堆栈中的另一个软件工具。
Lenny: Embedding banking into your product, not only adds differentiation, but also helps you acquire, retain and monetize your customers.
Lenny：将银行业务嵌入到您的产品中，不仅可以增加差异化，还可以帮助您获取、保留客户并从中获利。
Unit is the market leader in banking as a service combining multiple bank partners with a developer friendly API to empower companies of all sizes to launch accounts, cards, payments, and lending in just a few weeks.
Unit 是银行即服务领域的市场领导者，将多个银行合作伙伴与开发人员友好的 API 相结合，使各种规模的公司能够在短短几周内推出账户、银行卡、支付和贷款。
Unit is trusted by leading brands, such as AngelList, Invoice2go And Roofstock.
Unit 受到 AngelList、Invoice2go 和 Roofstock 等领先品牌的信赖。
Lenny: To hear more about how Unit enables companies like yours to build banking, visit unit.co/ lenny to request a demo or to try their free sandbox.
Lenny：要了解有关 Unit 如何帮助像您这样的公司建立银行业务的更多信息，请访问unit.co/lenny 请求演示或尝试他们的免费沙箱。
That's unit.co/lenny.
这是unit.co/lenny。
Lenny: Welcome to the podcast, Arielle.
莱尼：欢迎来到播客，阿莉尔。
Arielle Jackson: Thanks so much for having me.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：非常感谢你邀请我。
It's great to be here.
很高兴来到这里。
Lenny: It's absolutely my pleasure.
莱尼：这绝对是我的荣幸。
I've read so much of your writing online.
我在网上读过你写的很多文章。
You've done a lot of writing, which I found really helpful.
你写了很多文章，我发现这非常有帮助。
And so I'm really jazzed to be digging into all kinds of really good stuff.
所以我真的很高兴能够挖掘各种真正的好东西。
Before we get into some of the meat, just a couple questions that I had in my mind.
在我们开始讨论一些内容之前，我先想问几个问题。
You've worked with so many amazing companies, Google, Square, Loom, Patreon, Front.
您曾与许多出色的公司合作过，例如 Google、Square、Loom、Patreon、Front。
So many others.
还有很多其他的。
I don't want to keep going.
我不想再继续下去了
What's been either your favorite or most unusual project that you've worked on?
您从事过的最喜欢或最不寻常的项目是什么？
Arielle Jackson: Gosh, it's like asking me to choose my favorite son.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：天哪，这就像让我选择我最喜欢的儿子一样。
I'm like, gosh, I can't really like pick one.
我想，天哪，我真的不喜欢选一个。
Arielle Jackson: I would probably say that my favorite project, and this is because they get reminded of it on a daily basis was working at on the Square stand at Square.
Arielle Jackson：我可能会说我最喜欢的项目，这是因为他们每天都会想起它是在 Square 的 Square 展台上工作的。
It was the first time I ever worked on hardware and our joint Square was 140 people.
这是我第一次从事硬件工作，我们联合的 Square 有 140 人。
We had no marketing function.
我们没有营销职能。
We had a couple marketing people.
我们有几个营销人员。
We had no product managers and the hardware team was running the show on launching this new product that was supposed to get us up market into brick and mortar.
我们没有产品经理，硬件团队正在主导推出这款新产品，该产品本应让我们进入实体市场。
Arielle Jackson: And anyway, I was running event marketing at the time and giving away a bunch of those readers that you stick into a phone for free and having a lot of small merchants use.
Arielle Jackson：无论如何，我当时正在进行活动营销，并免费赠送了一堆可以插入手机的阅读器，并且有很多小商家使用。
I volunteered to run the launch of this product as a product marketer for the first time.
我第一次自愿作为产品营销人员来负责该产品的发布。
And it was just so fun, doing everything from positioning it, figuring out how we were going to talk about this beautiful new piece of hardware that would turn your iPad into a real point of sale.
从定位它到弄清楚我们将如何谈论这个漂亮的新硬件，将你的 iPad 变成一个真正的销售点，这一切都非常有趣。
Arielle Jackson: We had people fly around the country and get cool coffee shops and brick and mortar businesses seeding it so that they would all use it.
Arielle Jackson：我们让人们飞到全国各地，让很酷的咖啡店和实体企业播种它，这样他们都会使用它。
We had I think 15 Metro areas covered with the coolest coffee shops and donut shops and everything at launch.
我认为我们在 15 个都市区覆盖了最酷的咖啡店和甜甜圈店以及发布时的一切。
And you know, there was a lot of fake it till you make it.
你知道，在你成功之前，有很多假的。
I was negotiating a deal with Best Buy in the Apple store.
我正在苹果商店与百思买洽谈一笔交易。
Never done anything like that before.
以前从未做过类似的事情。
Arielle Jackson: Designing packaging was really awesome.
Arielle Jackson：包装设计真的很棒。
There was just so much to it launching a physical product.
推出实体产品的意义实在是太大了。
And at the time it was at a pretty high price point for a company that had always had one free product and helping that company go up market.
当时，对于一家一直拥有一种免费产品并帮助该公司打入市场的公司来说，它的价格相当高。
And I remember I was 30 something weeks pregnant when we launched.
我记得我们推出时我已经怀孕 30 周了。
We got all the blue bottle stores to use it.
我们让所有的蓝瓶商店都使用它。
And we had this launch event where Jack, our head of hardware, Jesse unveiled this product at the blue bottle in Mint Plaza.
我们举办了这次发布会，我们的硬件主管 Jack Jesse 在 Mint 广场的 Blue Bottle 推出了这款产品。
And I was super pregnant and super proud.
我非常怀孕并且非常自豪。
And I still get kind of excited every time I pay on one of those, which is all the time.
每次我为其中之一付款时，我仍然会感到有点兴奋，而且一直如此。
Lenny: Super pregnant and super proud.
莱尼：超级怀孕，超级自豪。
I love it.
我喜欢它。
And that product that was the POS stand, the iPad thing that you kind of swivel and sign.
那个产品就是 POS 支架，你可以旋转并签名的 iPad 东西。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
And there's been new versions of it since, there's a contactless version of it, and there's one with an integrated screen that I think is Android based, which you don't have to have an iPad, but that product's still around.
此后又出现了新版本，有非接触式版本，还有一个带有集成屏幕的版本，我认为它是基于 Android 的，你不必拥有 iPad，但该产品仍然存在。
I still pay on that original Square stand all the time.
我仍然一直在原来的 Square 摊位上付款。
I drink a lot of coffee.
我喝了很多咖啡。
Those independent coffee shops around LA.
洛杉矶周围那些独立的咖啡馆。
So they're all still using it.
所以他们都还在使用它。
Lenny: We're going to talk about positioning a bunch, but while we're on the topic, what was the positioning of that product while we're talking about it?
Lenny：我们将讨论定位问题，但是当我们谈论这个话题时，我们谈论该产品的定位是什么？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah, so at the time Square was mostly used by farmer's market vendors and event vendors.
Arielle Jackson：是的，所以当时 Square 主要由农贸市场摊贩和活动摊贩使用。
I made jewelry in a past life and that's how I got to Square was being one of those vendors.
我前世制作过珠宝，这就是我进入 Square 并成为这些供应商之一的原因。
And the positioning was really that it was for brick and mortar businesses, particularly quick serve coffee, donuts, sandwich shops that kind of quick serve brick and mortars.
其定位实际上是针对实体企业，特别是快速服务咖啡、甜甜圈、三明治店等快速服务实体店。
And it was up against your ugly old point of sale.
而且它与你丑陋的旧销售点相冲突。
Your cash register effectively.
您的收银机有效。
That was our foil.
那是我们的箔纸。
And the benefit was turn your iPad into a point of sale.
这样做的好处就是将您的 iPad 变成一个销售点。
And the differentiator was about one unified experience that you can do everything you can on your cash register and more, and you'd be proud to have it out on your counter.
与众不同之处在于一种统一的体验，您可以在收银机上做任何您能做的事情，甚至更多，而且您会为将它放在柜台上而感到自豪。
Lenny: So you said that you were creating jewelry and that's how you got into Square to work on this product.
Lenny：所以你说你正在制作珠宝，这就是你进入 Square 开发该产品的原因。
I need to hear more about that.
我需要听到更多相关信息。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah, sure.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的，当然。
So I was working at Google before Square and I'd always had this hobby of making jewelry and I used to sell my jewelry in a few different like boutiques around San Francisco and LA.
所以在 Square 之前我在 Google 工作，我一直有制作珠宝的爱好，我曾经在旧金山和洛杉矶附近的一些不同的精品店出售我的珠宝。
It was a very small side hustle, but it was my creative outlet.
这是一个很小的副业，但它是我创意的出口。
And I sold at craft fairs around Hanukah/Christmas time.
我在光明节/圣诞节前后在工艺品博览会上出售。
So I used to sell and just take cash.
所以我以前都是卖掉，只拿现金。
And then I got a Square reader and I sold at a craft fair that year.
然后我买了一台 Square 阅读器，并在那一年的手工艺品博览会上出售了它。
And it was awesome.
太棒了。
That Square reader, it helped people buy more, it helped me sort of look cool.
那个 Square 阅读器，它帮助人们购买更多东西，它让我看起来很酷。
It was just really great to accept credit cards.
接受信用卡真是太棒了。
I'd never done it before.
我以前从未这样做过。
Arielle Jackson: I used to take PayPal invoices and be on my computer and send someone an invoice and they'd get it.
Arielle Jackson：我过去常常拿着 PayPal 发票，在我的电脑上向某人发送发票，他们就会收到。
It was painful.
很痛苦。
All the reasons that people use Square, I experienced it.
人们使用 Square 的所有原因，我都经历过。
And two people I knew from Google, Megan Quinn and Kyle Dink had gone to Square from Google.
我在 Google 认识的两个人，梅根·奎因 (Megan Quinn) 和凯尔·丁克 (Kyle Dink)，都从 Google 转到了 Square。
And so after I had that experience, I think I sent them both an email just being like, this thing's fucking awesome.
所以在我经历了那次经历之后，我想我给他们俩发了一封电子邮件，就像，这件事太棒了。
I make jewelry.
我做珠宝。
It was great.
太棒了。
I sold I think it was 50% more than I did last year because I accepted credit cards and I can't remember which of them wrote back first, but they were like, come interview.
我觉得我卖的比去年多了 50%，因为我接受信用卡，我不记得他们中哪一个先回信了，但他们说，来面试吧。
And so that was basically how I ended up at Square.
这基本上就是我最终加入 Square 的原因。
Lenny: Wow.
莱尼：哇。
I bet that helped you a lot through the interview, actual have personal experience.
我敢打赌，这对你的面试有很大帮助，实际有亲身经历。
Arielle Jackson: Having been a merchant, I think it helped me understand the small merchant that initially we were marketing to.
Arielle Jackson：作为一名商人，我认为这帮助我了解了我们最初向其营销的小商人。
Lenny: And so today you are marketing expert in residence at capital.
莱尼：所以今天您是驻扎在首都的营销专家。
I was going to ask what does that mean and what is it that you do day to day these days?
我想问这是什么意思？这些天你每天都在做什么？
Arielle Jackson: Sure.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：当然。
So after I left Square, I went to a tiny startup that was seven people.
所以在我离开 Square 后，我去了一家只有 7 个人的小型初创公司。
They were funded by First Round and I helped them with everything that a tiny startup that's trying to grow needs.
他们得到了 First Round 的资助，我帮助他们满足了一家试图发展的小型初创公司所需的一切。
Arielle Jackson: It was called Cover.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：它被称为封面。
They were acquired by Twitter.
他们被推特收购了。
It was an Android app that could get you the right apps at the right time based on where you were by changing the lock screen on your phone.
这是一款 Android 应用程序，可以通过更改手机上的锁定屏幕，根据您所在的位置在正确的时间为您提供正确的应用程序。
And so that company and that experience of working at this tiny startup that was seven people, I really liked it.
所以这家公司以及在这家只有七个人的小型初创公司工作的经历，我真的很喜欢它。
And then they got acquired by Twitter, but I had just left Square.
然后他们被 Twitter 收购了，但我刚刚离开 Square。
So I decided not to join Twitter with the rest of the team.
所以我决定不和团队其他成员一起加入 Twitter。
And instead I just decided I was going to help a bunch of other small startups.
相反，我决定帮助其他一些小型初创公司。
And I emailed a few friends from past lives who had small startups, which was like, Hey, I'm not going to Twitter with the rest of the team.
我给前世的一些朋友发了电子邮件，他们拥有小型初创公司，内容就像是，嘿，我不会和团队的其他成员一起使用 Twitter。
You do need marketing help.
您确实需要营销帮助。
And every single person wrote back and said, yes.
每个人都回信说，是的。
And that's basically how I started consulting.
这基本上就是我开始咨询的方式。
Arielle Jackson: I guess it was about eight or nine years ago.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我想那是大约八、九年前的事了。
At the same time, First Round had reached out and said, hey, who did you use for marketing comps for cover?
与此同时，First Round 伸出手来问，嘿，你们用谁来做封面营销呢？
And I got connected with Brett from First Round and he's like, would you help our companies?
我与第一轮的布雷特取得了联系，他问，你愿意帮助我们的公司吗？
And we did a three month project for one day a week, nine years ago.
九年前，我们每周做一天，为期三个月的项目。
And I'm still there.
而我还在那里。
I work halftime at First Round.
我在第一轮比赛中场休息。
So I do everything I do for other companies, but for First Round companies on First Rounds time.
所以我所做的一切都是为其他公司做的，但在第一轮时间里是为第一轮公司做的。
Arielle Jackson: So the way it works is if you're funded by First Round and as part of your onboarding, we offer a lot of value add services and I'm one of them.
Arielle Jackson：所以它的运作方式是，如果你得到了第一轮的资助，并且作为你的入职培训的一部分，我们会提供很多增值服务，我就是其中之一。
And those services can be everything from, we have someone who's really good at compensation and HR stuff and we have someone who will help you with pricing and I'll help you with marketing.
这些服务可以是各种各样的，我们有一个非常擅长薪酬和人力资源工作的人，我们有一个会帮助您定价的人，我会帮助您进行营销。
And what that means when you're a seed stage startup is everything from naming to positioning, to developing a brand identity, a website and your initial launch, and eventually hiring a marketer.
当你是一家种子阶段的初创公司时，这意味着从命名到定位，到开发品牌标识、网站和首次发布，以及最终聘请营销人员的一切。
So that's sort of the bread and butter.
这就是面包和黄油。
That's what I like working on anyway.
无论如何，这就是我喜欢做的事情。
So it's a good fit because we invest in a lot of seed stage companies at First Round, I get to help almost all of them.
所以这是一个很好的选择，因为我们在第一轮投资了很多种子阶段的公司，我几乎可以帮助所有这些公司。
Lenny: That's an excellent segue to what I wanted to get to next.
莱尼：这是我接下来想要讨论的一个很好的延续。
What I want to do in our chat is cover three broad topics.
我想在我们的聊天中讨论三个广泛的主题。
Things that I know are very near and dear to your heart, naming for products and startups, your brand development framework and how to hire marketers.
我所知道的事情非常贴近您的心，为产品和初创公司命名，您的品牌开发框架以及如何雇用营销人员。
Does that sound good?
听起来不错吗？
Arielle Jackson: Awesome.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：太棒了。
That's what I like to talk about.
这就是我喜欢谈论的。
So yeah, let's do it.
所以，是的，让我们开始吧。
Lenny: Let's do it.
莱尼：我们开始吧。
Surprise, surprise.
惊喜，惊喜。
Okay.
好的。
So with naming, I've actually heard from a few founders that you were really helpful to them in naming their startups.
因此，在命名方面，我实际上从一些创始人那里听说，你对他们为初创公司命名确实很有帮助。
Folks that have maybe been on this podcast that will go unnamed.
那些可能参加过这个播客的人将不会被透露姓名。
So for founders trying to come up with a name for their company or their product, two questions.
因此，对于试图为自己的公司或产品命名的创始人来说，有两个问题。
What makes a good name for a product or a startup, and then just how do you come up with a great name?
是什么为产品或初创公司起一个好名字，那么如何起一个好名字呢？
Arielle Jackson: I love naming.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我喜欢命名。
I think I've named just over 30 companies at this point.
我想我现在已经点出了 30 多家公司的名字。
And actually when I mention how I got into consulting when I emailed some friends and asked them if they needed marketing help, I think I'm allowed to talk about this one.
事实上，当我提到我是如何进入咨询业的，当我给一些朋友发电子邮件并询问他们是否需要营销帮助时，我想我可以谈论这个。
So one of those companies was some friends from Google, Adrian and Carl.
其中一家公司是谷歌的一些朋友，阿德里安和卡尔。
They had left Google, gone to Facebook and then started a company it's now called Seesaw.
他们离开了谷歌，去了 Facebook，然后创办了一家公司，现在的名字叫 Seesaw。
It's an ed tech company.
这是一家教育科技公司。
That was the first company I named post Google Square, all of that.
这是我在 Google Square 之后命名的第一家公司，所有这些。
Arielle Jackson: It is an awesome name and I'll use it as an example.
Arielle Jackson：这是一个很棒的名字，我将用它作为例子。
So seesaw is a ed tech company.
Seesaw 是一家教育科技公司。
They had a really bad name before that and we did this whole naming process and ended with that name and why I think that's a good name is when I say Seesaw, you don't really know what it is, but when I tell you, oh, it's this ed tech company and it's an iPad app and it helps the work that elementary school students do go between the teacher, the parents and the student.
在此之前他们的名字非常糟糕，我们完成了整个命名过程并以这个名字结束，为什么我认为这是一个好名字，因为当我说 Seesaw 时，你真的不知道它是什么，但是当我告诉你，哦，这是一家教育科技公司，它是一个 iPad 应用程序，它有助于小学生在老师、家长和学生之间进行工作。
And you're like, oh, well, Seesaw makes sense for elementary school, it's something that goes back and forth.
你会想，哦，好吧，跷跷板对于小学来说很有意义，它是一种来回的东西。
It has that sort of nostalgic feel.
它有一种怀旧的感觉。
And it makes sense that it's an ed tech company.
它是一家教育科技公司，这是有道理的。
Arielle Jackson: And I personally tend to like those kinds of names that are suggestive or evocative, where when I tell you what the company does, you're like, oh, that makes sense.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我个人倾向于喜欢那些具有暗示性或唤起性的名字，当我告诉你公司是做什么的时，你会说，哦，这是有道理的。
But it's not that what the name is tells you exactly what the company does.
但这个名字并不能准确地告诉你该公司的业务。
So that's an example, I think of a good name.
这就是一个例子，我想到了一个好名字。
I don't know, during COVID and when my older son's school was closed and they all used Seesaw and I got to tell my son, oh, that's my friend's company and we named it back in the day.
我不知道，在新冠疫情期间，当我大儿子的学校关闭时，他们都使用 Seesaw，我必须告诉我的儿子，哦，那是我朋友的公司，我们当时就给它命名了。
And he was like, oh, that's cool.
他说，哦，那太酷了。
That name makes sense.
这个名字很有道理。
Arielle Jackson: That's the reaction you want.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：这就是你想要的反应。
It also has a little bit of emotion to it.
它也有一点情感。
It has some nostalgia.
它有一些怀旧之情。
It's fun to say it's short, it's memorable.
说起来很有趣，很短，很难忘。
I think all of those things make a good name.
我认为所有这些都造就了一个好名字。
Another company that has a good name that you and I have both worked with is Maven.
你和我都曾合作过的另一家享有盛名的公司是 Maven。
So they're a First Round company.
所以他们是第一轮公司。
Gogan has talked about this publicly.
戈根曾公开谈论过这一点。
We named that company together.
我们一起为那家公司命名。
Maven is a Yiddish word that means one who understands and it means specifically one who understands because they've done something, they've acquired the skills or knowledge over time.
Maven 是一个意第绪语单词，意思是“理解者”，特别是指“理解者”，因为他们已经做了某件事，随着时间的推移，他们已经获得了技能或知识。
Arielle Jackson: And I just think that's such a cool name for a platform that allows X operators or current operators to teach their skills to other people through cohort based classes.
Arielle Jackson：我认为对于一个平台来说，这是一个很酷的名字，它允许 X 操作员或当前操作员通过基于队列的课程向其他人传授他们的技能。
You want to be a Maven, instructors are Maven's, it's short, it's easy to say, when I tell you what that company does, that name makes perfect sense.
你想成为一个 Maven，导师都是 Maven 的，它很短，很容易说，当我告诉你那家公司是做什么的时，这个名字就很有意义。
So I tend to like those of names myself, but I also, I don't know, I like other kinds of names for other kinds of products too.
所以我自己倾向于喜欢那些名称，但我也，我不知道，我也喜欢其他种类产品的其他名称。
I think it really comes down to what is your product?
我认为这实际上取决于你的产品是什么？
What is your company?
你是什么公司？
What is the name trying to achieve and really getting clearer with those criteria.
这个名字试图实现什么目标，并且这些标准变得更加清晰。
So we can talk about the criteria that always apply, the criteria you might add and a process to get there.
因此，我们可以讨论始终适用的标准、您可能添加的标准以及实现该标准的流程。
Lenny: That sounds great.
莱尼：听起来不错。
Yeah.
是的。
I'm really curious about a process.
我真的很好奇一个过程。
If one exists, that'd be really cool.
如果存在的话，那就太酷了。
So another question in my mind is just some names are just nonsense words like Yahoo and I don't know Google, I guess.
所以我脑子里的另一个问题是，有些名字只是无意义的词，比如雅虎，我猜我不知道谷歌。
What's your take on that as a name, that approach?
你对这个名字、这种方法有何看法？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So words like that are empty vessels, they really don't mean anything.
所以这样的话都是空的，没有任何意义。
If you think about the name Yahoo, it's actually like really silly.
如果你想想雅虎这个名字，你会发现它实际上非常愚蠢。
It's like Yahoo.
就像雅虎一样。
I always hear it like that.
我总是听到这样的话。
Google has a meaning for people in the know with the one followed by as many zeros.
谷歌对于懂行的人来说有一个含义，就是一个后面跟着多个零。
It's like a big number and it's a misspelling of that.
它就像一个大数字，但它是一个拼写错误。
So that one's a little less silly to me than Yahoo.
所以对我来说，这比雅虎没那么愚蠢。
My take on empty vessel names is they can be really memorable and they can be evocative of the emotion, but you have to do a lot more marketing work over time to make it mean something.
我对空船名称的看法是，它们确实令人难忘，可以唤起人们的情感，但随着时间的推移，你必须做更多的营销工作才能让它有意义。
Arielle Jackson: So if I say Yahoo today, we know it's that search engine we use before we all switch to Google and we have the purple color in our head, and we think about what it meant at the time that we might have used it, but it took a lot of marketing dollars and a lot of time for that word to be in that.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：所以，如果我今天说雅虎，我们知道它是我们在转向谷歌之前使用的搜索引擎，我们的脑海里有紫色，我们会思考它在我们可能使用它的时候意味着什么，但这个词花了很多营销资金和很多时间。
So they're doable.
所以它们是可行的。
I worked on a company Eero.
我在 Eero 公司工作。
That has kind of what is almost an empty vessel name.
这几乎是一个空的容器名称。
Eero is for Eero Saarinen who was a designer.
Eero 是设计师 Eero Saarinen 的名字。
He did like these really beautiful buildings, architectural buildings.
他确实喜欢这些非常漂亮的建筑，建筑建筑。
And then also some tables.
然后还有一些桌子。
You can get a Saarinen and table at Design Within Reach, but that name, nobody knows that unless you're in the design community.
你可以在 Design Within Reach 买到 Saarinen 和桌子，但这个名字，除非你在设计界，否则没有人知道。
And so that name is effectively an empty vessel and they have to spend a lot and be consistent about making that mean a wifi system.
所以这个名字实际上是一个空容器，他们必须花费大量资金并保持一致，使其意味着一个 wifi 系统。
Lenny: I want to get to the process, but another question is why is it important for the name to kind of connect to the company and what they do?
莱尼：我想谈谈这个过程，但另一个问题是，为什么名称与公司及其业务的联系如此重要？
Is that just it feels nice to people or is there some kind of a bigger reason?
这仅仅是为了让人们感觉良好还是有某种更大的原因？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So it doesn't have to, and examples like Eero and Yahoo, it doesn't.
所以它不需要，像 Eero 和 Yahoo 这样的例子，它不需要。
Even if you think about Apple, it doesn't.
即使你想到苹果公司，它也不会。
Apple has nothing to do with Apple computers.
苹果与苹果电脑没有任何关系。
It's a word we all know.
这是我们都知道的一个词。
There's a lot of words where there's no meaning behind it.
有很多话背后没有任何意义。
If there is a meaning behind your name, your name is doing a little bit more of your marketing work for you.
如果你的名字背后有某种含义，那么你的名字就为你做了更多的营销工作。
So if your name is Internet Explorer, RIP, I know exactly what you do.
因此，如果您的名字是 Internet Explorer，RIP，我确切地知道您在做什么。
Arielle Jackson: If your name is Chrome and you're a designer on the web, you kind of might be like, oh, that makes sense.
Arielle Jackson：如果你的名字是 Chrome 并且你是一名网络设计师，你可能会觉得，哦，这是有道理的。
That's the area around the browsing window.
这是浏览窗口周围的区域。
If your name is Firefox, I have no idea what you did.
如果你的名字是 Firefox，我不知道你做了什么。
You just took two words and put them together and made something up.
你只是把两个词放在一起就创造了一些东西。
And now you have to spend, and you have to be consistent over time in making that word mean something for people.
现在你必须花钱，而且你必须随着时间的推移保持一致，让这个词对人们有意义。
But all three of those browsers were successful at a time.
但这三种浏览器都曾一度获得成功。
And I don't think the name had anything to do with Internet Explorer's demise.
我不认为这个名字与 Internet Explorer 的消亡有任何关系。
Lenny: Got it.
莱尼：明白了。
So it's kind of ideally you can find an easy mode.
因此，理想情况下您可以找到一种简单的模式。
If that doesn't work, then you go hard mode.
如果这不起作用，那么你就进入困难模式。
You come up with your empty vessel name and then you just have to do a lot of work.
你想出你的空容器名称，然后你只需要做很多工作。
Arielle Jackson: That's my personal preference.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：这是我个人的偏好。
Arielle Jackson: My personal preference is if you think about there's descriptive names, the Internet Explorer, there's suggestive names like Chrome, then there's evocative names, which I would say Seesaw and Maven fit into there where they're like in between suggestive and evocative, and then there's empty vessel names or fanciful names.
Arielle Jackson：我个人的偏好是，如果你考虑一下有描述性名称，Internet Explorer，有像 Chrome 这样的暗示性名称，然后有唤起性名称，我想说 Seesaw 和 Maven 适合那里，它们介于暗示性和唤起性之间，然后是空容器名称或奇特的名称。
There's a spectrum.
有一个频谱。
And when you do your brainstorm, we can talk about this in the process, you want to think across all of them, but you might have in your naming brief, we want a suggestive name, or we want a descriptive name.
当你进行头脑风暴时，我们可以在这个过程中讨论这个问题，你想要考虑所有这些，但你可能在你的命名简介中，我们想要一个暗示性的名称，或者我们想要一个描述性的名称。
You might go into it with that.
你可能会对此进行深入探讨。
And so there's times and places for all of those names across the spectrum.
因此，所有这些名字都有不同的时间和地点。
My personal bias is I tend to like suggestive names.
我个人的偏见是我倾向于喜欢暗示性的名字。
Lenny: Makes sense.
莱尼：有道理。
Okay, let's get into it.
好吧，让我们开始吧。
What should teams do when they're trying to name something?
当团队试图命名某些东西时应该做什么？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So the first thing is to do your product positioning.
所以首先要做的就是做好你的产品定位。
I really believe that positioning dictates so much of your marketing and should always be the first thing you do.
我真的相信定位在很大程度上决定了你的营销，并且应该永远是你要做的第一件事。
I had a student in my last class that I taught through Maven.
我在上一堂课上有一个学生，我是通过 Maven 教的。
I teach a class on brand strategy and he was I think a second or third time founder, who had never taken a class on brand strategy.
我教授一门关于品牌战略的课程，我认为他是第二次或第三次创始人，他从未上过品牌战略课程。
He worked really hard.
他工作非常努力。
He was awesome.
他太棒了。
Anyway, at the end of the class and you kind of do this closing thing.
不管怎样，在课程结束时，你要做最后的事情。
And he goes, I'll never write a line of code without doing positioning first.
他说，如果不先进行定位，我永远不会编写一行代码。
And that was music to my ears.
这对我来说就是音乐。
I think positioning comes first, but in any case, you do that first, and we'll talk about that in a little bit.
我认为定位是第一位的，但无论如何，你首先要做的是定位，我们稍后会讨论这一点。
And then you write a naming brief and it's really simple.
然后你写一个命名简介，这非常简单。
Arielle Jackson: What are you naming?
阿丽尔·杰克逊：你叫什么名字？
Are you naming a company?
你要给公司起名字吗？
Are you naming the product?
您正在为产品命名吗？
Are you naming both?
你两个都命名吗？
Usually if you're early stage company, you're naming both and they're going to have one name because you don't want people to have to remember two things.
通常，如果你是处于早期阶段的公司，你会为两者命名，并且他们将有一个名字，因为你不希望人们必须记住两件事。
What do you want the name to communicate?
你希望这个名字传达什么信息？
So in that example of Seesaw, we wanted it to communicate young childhood.
因此，在跷跷板的例子中，我们希望它能够传达年轻的童年。
In the example of Eero, we wanted it to communicate design, being designed forward.
在 Eero 的例子中，我们希望它能够传达设计，向前设计。
It can be whatever you want it to communicate.
它可以是您想要它传达的任何内容。
What do you want to avoid?
你想避免什么？
We don't want it to sound like this competitor, or we hate this word or whatever you want to avoid.
我们不希望它听起来像这个竞争对手，或者我们讨厌这个词或任何你想避免的词。
What are the names of competitive and related products?
竞争产品和相关产品的名称是什么？
And then are there other considerations?
那么还有其他的考虑吗？
I worked with another First Round company that was operating in China.
我曾与另一家在中国运营的 First Round 公司合作。
Arielle Jackson: And one of the considerations was this has to be pronounceable for a native Chinese speaker.
Arielle Jackson：其中一个考虑因素是这对于以中文为母语的人来说必须可以发音。
That's a very valid, additional consideration.
这是一个非常有效的额外考虑因素。
And then there are seven criteria for names that always apply in my opinion.
在我看来，名字的七个标准始终适用。
And you could add additional ones, like that Chinese speaking one would be an additional one.
你还可以添加其他的，就像说中文的就是一个额外的。
The seven are trademark, which is kind of obvious, can you use this?
这七个是商标，有点明显，你能用这个吗？
Are you violating someone else's trademark?
您是否侵犯了他人的商标？
And the second step with trademark is, do you need to proactively protect the name?
商标的第二步是，您是否需要主动保护名称？
Domain availability, so everyone gets hung up on getting a.com like maven.com got maven.com.
域名可用性，因此每个人都热衷于获取 .com，就像 maven.com 获取 maven.com 一样。
It was an arduous process that Gogan wrote about on Twitter.
戈根在推特上写道，这是一个艰巨的过程。
But these days, you don't necessarily need the.com.
但如今，您不一定需要 the.com。
Square operated on SquareUp for very, very long time.
Square 在 SquareUp 上运营了非常非常长的时间。
Lots of companies are operating on variants of a .com.
许多公司都在 .com 的变体上运营。
So domain availability, distinctiveness.
所以域名的可用性、独特性。
Is it memorable?
是否令人难忘？
Arielle Jackson: Is it sound like someone else's name?
阿莉尔·杰克逊：听起来像别人的名字吗？
That's I think one of the most important ones, just is it different and distinctive?
我认为这是最重要的之一，它是否与众不同？
Is it timeless?
它是永恒的吗？
So there's a lot of naming trends.
所以有很多命名趋势。
If you tell me Optimizely I could tell you what year was the company formed when it ends in LY.
如果您告诉我 Optimizely，我可以告诉您公司成立于哪一年，以 LY 结尾。
If you tell me a word like Flicker, I can tell you what year it was, because that was the naming trend to remove vowels.
如果你告诉我像“闪烁”这样的词，我可以告诉你那是哪一年，因为这是删除元音的命名趋势。
So I generally stay away from naming trends, because I want your company named not to sound dated in 10 or 20 years.
所以我通常会远离命名趋势，因为我希望你的公司命名在 10 或 20 年后听起来不会过时。
The last one is it's kind of related to that.
最后一个是与此相关的。
What we talked about in the brief, what do you want the name to communicate?
我们在简介中讨论了什么，您希望这个名字传达什么信息？
Which is the name reflective of your key messaging or does it somehow suggest an emotion or feeling that you're trying to convey, and then sound and ease of pronunciation.
这个名字反映了你的关键信息，或者它是否以某种方式暗示了你想要传达的情感或感觉，然后是声音和发音的轻松程度。
Arielle Jackson: Is it fun to say, is it easy to say, how is it to spell?
Arielle Jackson：说起来有趣吗？说起来容易吗？拼写如何？
We almost named a First Round company a while ago Lattice which is now a different company that's doing quite well, but we didn't name it that because this was a company that was B2B sales was going to be their main channel.
不久前，我们几乎将第一轮公司命名为莱迪思（Lattice），该公司现在是一家表现相当不错的不同公司，但我们没有这样命名，因为这是一家 B2B 销售将成为其主要渠道的公司。
So they're going to be people on the phone being like, hey, I'm calling from Lattice and we went through this exercise and we're like lettuce?
所以他们会在电话里说，嘿，我从莱迪思打来电话，我们完成了这个练习，我们就像生菜一样？
It's not so easy to say and spell.
说起来和拼写起来并不容易。
So we actually didn't name the company that and went with something else.
所以我们实际上并没有给这家公司命名，而是选择了其他的名字。
But there's a company now doing quite well.
但现在有一家公司做得很好。
Lenny: You think that was the right move?
莱尼：你认为这是正确的举动吗？
Arielle Jackson: I don't know.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我不知道。
I always say a good name is only going to help you, but a bad name won't hurt a good company.
我总是说，一个好名字只会对你有帮助，但一个坏名字不会伤害一个好公司。
So I don't really feel-
所以我真的不觉得——
Lenny: Interesting.
莱尼：有趣。
Good to know.
很高兴知道。
Yeah.
是的。
Keep going.
继续前进。
Arielle Jackson: And then the last two are appearance.
Arielle Jackson：最后两个是外观。
So there are some names that just lend themselves really nicely to visual design and they have to do with how tall the letters are and is their symmetry and if you give this to designer, making a logo just so awesome and cool and fun and then length.
因此，有一些名字非常适合视觉设计，它们与字母的高度和对称性有关，如果你把这个交给设计师，让一个标志变得如此棒、酷、有趣，然后是长度。
So a lot of people, they want to name like Square and Stripe and these one syllable names, but a two syllable or even a three syllable name can often be more memorable.
所以很多人，他们想起像方形和条纹这样的单音节名字，但二音节甚至三音节的名字往往更容易记住。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
Well, so you got the Lenny part with the two syllables is generally a nice sweet spot.
嗯，所以你得到的莱尼部分有两个音节通常是一个很好的甜蜜点。
Lenny: Sweet.
莱尼：甜甜的。
Have you put out a template or anything that folks can find to do this?
你有没有提供一个模板或任何人们可以找到的东西来做到这一点？
Or should they kind of listen here and take notes?
或者他们应该在这里听并做笔记？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah, there's an article on the First Round review called Positioning Your Startup is Vital, Here's How to Nail It and all those criteria and how to do naming is actually in that article.
Arielle Jackson：是的，有一篇关于第一轮审查的文章，名为《定位你的初创公司至关重要，这是如何钉住它》，所有这些标准以及如何命名实际上都在那篇文章中。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
We'll put that in our little show notes.
我们会把它放在我们的小表演笔记中。
And then as you go through this, is this a binary thing or you kind of rate each of these categories one to five?
然后当你经历这个时，这是一个二元的事情还是你对这些类别中的每一个进行一到五的评分？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So the way I do it is I apply the criteria after we do the brainstorm.
所以我的做法是在我们进行头脑风暴后应用这些标准。
And then we do red, yellow, green on each of those criteria just to weed out ones that are not doing well on any of those.
然后我们对每个标准进行红色、黄色、绿色处理，以剔除那些在任何一个标准上表现不佳的标准。
Got it.
知道了。
And then you add your own criteria.
然后您添加自己的标准。
So the next steps the brainstorm.
所以接下来的步骤就是集思广益。
I'm going to go fast through this.
我会快速讲完这个。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
I was going to ask you about the brainstorm.
我本来想问你关于头脑风暴的事情。
I'm excited to hear this.
听到这个我很兴奋。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So the way that I run a naming process is I like to first do positioning and then I set up an hour with the founders and me and ideally a couple other people who are interested, but disinterested.
因此，我运行命名过程的方式是，我喜欢首先进行定位，然后我与创始人和我以及最好的其他几个感兴趣但不感兴趣的人安排一个小时的时间。
So I'll bring a writer from the First Round team or the founder has a friend who's a linguist or the founder has a friend who speaks four languages.
因此，我会带一位来自第一轮团队的作家，或者创始人有一位语言学家朋友，或者创始人有一位会说四种语言的朋友。
We like those kind of people to be in it if possible.
如果可能的话，我们希望这样的人加入其中。
And it's generally five to seven people in a brainstorm.
通常有五到七个人进行头脑风暴。
And the idea is we spend one hour, I set it up beforehand and we try to come up with hundreds and hundreds of bad ideas and a couple decent ones that are worth exploring more.
这个想法是我们花一个小时，我事先设置好，然后我们尝试想出成百上千个糟糕的想法和一些值得更多探索的好想法。
And the brainstorm is two parts.
头脑风暴分为两部分。
The first part is based on words in your positioning statement.
第一部分基于您的定位声明中的文字。
Arielle Jackson: So we take all the meaningful words out of your positioning statement is the warmup and we run synonyms, antonyms, free associations, other languages, whatever we can do off of those words.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：所以我们从你的定位声明中取出所有有意义的单词作为热身，我们运行同义词、反义词、自由联想、其他语言，无论我们能用这些单词做什么。
And so if your words in your positioning statement are related to what that you do, which they very well should be, that's a great way to just come up with hundreds of words really quickly.
因此，如果你的定位声明中的词语与你所做的事情相关（它们很应该如此），那么这是一个快速想出数百个单词的好方法。
And then the second step is a thematic brainstorm.
然后第二步是主题头脑风暴。
So I pick between seven and 10 themes, you can think of them like Jeopardy themes.
所以我选择了 7 到 10 个主题，你可以把它们想象成 Jeopardy 主题。
So it's like, I don't know, okay, so there was an-
所以这就像是，我不知道，好吧，所以有一个-
Arielle Jackson: ...
阿莉尔·杰克逊：……
AI.
人工智能。
Yeah.
是的。
It was like an AI tool for strawberry picking and the themes would be the history of strawberry farming or botany 101, things that are related.
它就像一个草莓采摘的人工智能工具，主题是草莓种植的历史或植物学101，相关的东西。
You could do like last names of famous farmers, think about how did Tesla get their name?
你可以像著名农民的姓氏一样，想想特斯拉是怎么得名的？
They probably did last names of people related to electricity, and that's such a great name, so thematic brainstorm.
他们可能写了与电力有关的人的姓氏，这是一个很棒的名字，所以可以进行主题头脑风暴。
And then that's usually a little more fruitful.
然后这通常会更有成效一些。
And we do the same thing, free association, all that.
我们做同样的事情，自由联合，所有这些。
Arielle Jackson: I spend some time afterwards on Wikipedia and the internet and actually finding words words.
Arielle Jackson：后来我花了一些时间在维基百科和互联网上寻找单词。
Also love the library, check out books sometimes and just read books on the topic and just write down the interesting words that come up.
也喜欢图书馆，有时看看书，阅读有关该主题的书籍，然后写下出现的有趣单词。
And anyway, so then I give them back a short list.
不管怎样，我会给他们一份简短的名单。
The short list is around 10 to 25 concepts that are ideas that are worth looking at further.
简短的列表大约有 10 到 25 个概念，这些概念值得进一步研究。
And from there narrow it down based on the criteria and the red, yellow, green, we come up with three to five, don't come up with one because you might not get it for trademark, and it's really sad when you get really attached to one and then you can't use it.
然后根据标准和红色、黄色、绿色缩小范围，我们会提出三到五个，不要提出一个，因为你可能无法获得商标，当你真正迷恋其中一个然后你无法使用它时，这真的很伤心。
So yeah, three to five top contenders.
是的，三到五个顶级竞争者。
And then you go through trademark process domain and kind of go from there.
然后您将经历商标流程域并从那里开始。
Lenny: That was amazing.
莱尼：那真是太棒了。
If you're doing a startup name versus a product, is the process any different or is it basically the same?
如果您正在做一个初创公司名称与一个产品，那么流程有什么不同还是基本相同？
Arielle Jackson: No, same.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：不，一样。
The only difference is if you have a lot of equity in your company name...
唯一的区别是，如果您的公司名称中拥有大量股权......
Square is a good example.
广场就是一个很好的例子。
Square had a lot of equity.
Square 拥有大量股权。
Google is a perfect example.
谷歌就是一个完美的例子。
A lot of equity in the company name, you often don't want to name your products something really creative and different because you actually want the equity in the master brand to come through.
公司名称中包含大量股权，您通常不想将您的产品命名为真正有创意和不同的名称，因为您实际上希望通过主品牌的股权来实现。
So if you think about Square's names, they have other ones, when they diverge from the Square brand like cash or when they want something new or Google, when they came out with Android and they wanted to diverge from the master brand.
因此，如果你想想 Square 的名字，当他们与 Square 品牌不同时，比如现金，或者当他们想要一些新的东西或 Google 时，当他们推出 Android 时，他们想要与主品牌不同，他们就会有其他的名字。
But think about all the products.
但想想所有的产品。
Square Register, Square Stand, Square App, Google Maps, they're really boring and it's because the equity is in the company name and the product name can actually be boring and descriptive.
Square Register、Square Stand、Square App、Google Maps，它们真的很无聊，因为股权就在公司名称中，而产品名称实际上可能很无聊且具有描述性。
Lenny: That makes sense.
莱尼：这是有道理的。
I want to come back to a point you made that a great name will help a startup and a bad name is not going to hurt you or I forget the word to use.
我想回到你提出的一个观点，一个好名字将有助于初创公司，而一个坏名字不会伤害你，否则我会忘记使用这个词。
I'd love to hear that because that's that's really interesting.
我很想听听这个，因为那真的很有趣。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So if your company has a great name and the name is remarkable, people will be like, oh, that's a great name, or it just makes sense.
因此，如果你的公司有一个伟大的名字，而且这个名字很了不起，人们会说，哦，这是一个伟大的名字，或者它只是有意义。
In the case of Seesaw like, that's a good name for that company.
就 Seesaw 之类的例子来说，这对于该公司来说是一个好名字。
That good name is just going to help people talk about it.
这个好名字只会帮助人们谈论它。
It's going to spread word of mouth.
它将通过口口相传。
People are going to like to talk about the company.
人们会喜欢谈论公司。
If you think about there's a lot of companies with bad names that we use all the time or even quite boring names that we now love.
如果你想一想，有很多公司的名字很糟糕，我们一直在使用，甚至我们现在喜欢的很无聊的名字。
So if you think about Disney, Walt Disney's last name, it didn't mean anything, but over time that's such a good company and it got imbued with all this meaning and now it stands for magic and stands for so much, but it was just the dude's last name.
所以如果你想想迪士尼，华特·迪士尼的姓氏，它没有任何意义，但随着时间的推移，这是一家如此优秀的公司，它充满了所有这些含义，现在它代表着魔法，代表着很多，但它只是这个家伙的姓氏。
So over time a word can come to mean something that is beyond what that actual word means.
因此，随着时间的推移，一个词的含义可能会超出该词的实际含义。
Arielle Jackson: Disney means magic today.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：迪士尼在今天意味着魔法。
Volvo means safety.
沃尔沃意味着安全。
Those names are not good.
这些名字都不好听
If I just put it in a spreadsheet or one of those lists, no one would pick it.
如果我只是将其放入电子表格或其中一个列表中，没有人会选择它。
So that's kind of what I mean that the name is just part of the overall marketing or the overall brand and a bad name with a really great company with great company strategy, great marketing is going to be great over time.
所以这就是我的意思，这个名字只是整体营销或整体品牌的一部分，对于一家拥有伟大公司战略的真正伟大的公司来说，一个坏名字，随着时间的推移，伟大的营销将会变得伟大。
And a good name is just going to help you, but I don't think a bad name is going to kill a good company.
一个好名字只会对你有帮助，但我不认为坏名字会毁掉一家好公司。
Lenny: So interesting.
莱尼：太有趣了。
So basically your goal is to help find a name that will help.
所以基本上你的目标是帮助找到一个有帮助的名字。
Worst case, you're going to be okay if your product is awesome.
最坏的情况是，如果你的产品很棒，那就没什么问题了。
Arielle Jackson: I think so.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：我想是的。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean it also takes a little of the pressure off to be honest.
我的意思是，说实话，这也减轻了一些压力。
Everyone wants to find that perfect name.
每个人都想找到一个完美的名字。
If you actually think about it, this happens a lot.
如果你认真思考一下，这种情况经常发生。
You give someone a list of 10 names or 15 names and they're just cells in the spreadsheet these days, we're doing most of this virtually.
你给某人一个包含 10 个或 15 个名字的列表，现在他们只是电子表格中的单元格，我们大部分都是虚拟完成的。
You give people a name like that and it's like, you have to imagine what it could be.
你给人们起一个这样的名字，你就必须想象它会是什么。
You think about Apple or Disney or Nike or Volvo, Lego, any of these brands, in a cell spreadsheet in plain Arial in 10 point, they're just okay, you have to grow them over time.
你想想苹果、迪士尼、耐克、沃尔沃、乐高，这些品牌中的任何一个，在单元格电子表格中用普通的 Arial 字体写成 10 磅，它们都还可以，你必须随着时间的推移来发展它们。
You just hear about I think Phil Nate with Nike, when he was given that name as an option, he was like, that's okay.
你刚刚听说菲尔·内特（Phil Nate）与耐克合作，当他被赋予这个名字作为选择时，他说，没关系。
Yeah.
是的。
I'll sleep on it.
我会睡在上面。
Such a great name.
这么棒的名字。
Lenny: This makes me think about my startup back in the day, it was called Local Mind, and we went through an exercise similar to this.
莱尼：这让我想起了我当时的创业公司，它被称为 Local Mind，我们进行了类似的练习。
Not nearly as in depth and well run, but I remember our designer was the person that helped us nail the name.
没有那么深入和运行良好，但我记得我们的设计师是帮助我们确定这个名字的人。
He's just like, oh, I could do so much with this name.
他就像，哦，我可以用这个名字做很多事情。
Let's just see where this one can go.
让我们看看这个能去哪里。
Is that something you find?
这是你找到的东西吗？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
There's definitely been bad names.
肯定有不好的名字。
I helped a company rebrand recently that they had a bad name.
我最近帮助一家公司重塑品牌，因为他们名声不好。
It just looked dated.
它看起来只是过时了。
It didn't fit any of those.
它不适合其中任何一个。
It wasn't distinctive.
它没有什么特色。
It wasn't timeless.
它并不是永恒的。
It had one of those like naming trends.
它有一种类似命名趋势的趋势。
Those are not good.
那些都不好。
You want to avoid those, but if you come up with something that is pretty good and you can make up something beautiful out of it and it fits your company, it does some of the marketing work for you and people like to say it and ideally it's memorable and it has some emotion to it, go, go for it.
你想避免这些，但如果你想出了一些非常好的东西，你可以用它创造出一些美丽的东西，它适合你的公司，它会为你做一些营销工作，人们喜欢说它，理想情况下它是令人难忘的，它有一些情感，去吧，去吧。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
One last question about naming.
最后一个关于命名的问题。
What's a common mistake that people make going through this process coming up with a name?
人们在命名过程中常犯的错误是什么？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah, a really funny one is if you have a code name for your product or at First Round, a lot of the companies we invest in, they raise their seed round with one name.
Arielle Jackson：是的，一个非常有趣的事情是，如果你的产品有一个代号，或者在第一轮，我们投资的很多公司，他们都会用一个名字来筹集种子轮资金。
They may or may not be attached to it, but then they work with me and I'm like, yeah, your name's not that good, and here's why, we should probably change it or they say, we can't use this name.
他们可能会也可能不会，但当他们和我一起工作时，我会说，是的，你的名字不太好，这就是为什么，我们应该改变它，或者他们说，我们不能使用这个名字。
We found out we have a trademark conflict.
我们发现我们存在商标冲突。
I really believe in using a code name that's so ridiculous that you won't ever launch a product like that if you're just trying to incorporate and go really quick.
我真的相信使用一个非常荒谬的代号，如果你只是想快速整合和发展，你永远不会推出这样的产品。
Arielle Jackson: So for example, a lot of people, they need their name for their corporation.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：例如，很多人需要为自己的公司命名。
And so they are filing all the steps to creating a business and they just like pick something, but then they end up getting attached to it and then they want to actually launch under that name.
因此，他们正在归档创建企业的所有步骤，他们只是喜欢选择一些东西，但最终他们会依附于此，然后他们想以该名称实际启动。
And it's like, well, that's not so great and here's why I think you should change it.
这就像，嗯，这不太好，这就是为什么我认为你应该改变它。
If you pick something so ridiculous that you would never launch, it's actually helpful because then you can go through a process and find a name that will do more of your work for you and you won't be attached to something crappy.
如果你选择了一些非常荒谬的东西以至于你永远不会启动，它实际上是有帮助的，因为这样你就可以完成一个过程并找到一个可以为你做更多工作的名字，并且你不会依附于一些蹩脚的东西。
Lenny: Such a good point an idea.
莱尼：这是个好主意。
And by the way, so if you're a First Round company, you get this naming service for free and all these other things we're going to talk about just to be clear.
顺便说一句，如果您是第一轮公司，您可以免费获得此命名服务，为了清楚起见，我们将讨论所有其他事情。
Lenny: Oh my God.
莱尼：天啊。
I could do a whole episode about how much I love First Round, but I will say I'm a huge fan.
我可以用一整集来表达我有多喜欢第一轮，但我会说我是一个超级粉丝。
I think I've participated in every program that First Round offers.
我想我已经参加了 First Round 提供的每一个项目。
The First Round review is actually one of the first pieces of writing that kind of helped spur my now career.
第一轮评论实际上是最早帮助刺激我现在的职业生涯的文章之一。
And so I'm really-
所以我真的-
Arielle Jackson: I remember that article, was awesome.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我记得那篇文章，非常棒。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
And I did two more after that.
之后我又做了两个。
So much work, but yeah, that was a big deal.
工作量很大，但是，是的，这很重要。
So I'm really appreciative to First Round.
所以我真的很感激第一轮。
And we could talk about First Round a bit at the end, too.
最后我们也可以谈谈第一轮。
Arielle Jackson: Sure.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：当然。
Yeah.
是的。
Everything we're talking about that you've asked me so far, I think that you're going to ask me about positioning and your marketing person, and all of that is stuff we offer to First Round company, we offer my services as part of the investment.
到目前为止，您问我的所有内容，我想您都会问我有关定位和营销人员的问题，所有这些都是我们向 First Round 公司提供的东西，我们提供我的服务作为投资的一部分。
There are times when we might get stuck and we have to bring in an outside person to help us with something, but for the most part, it's all included and you'd pay a lot of money...
有时我们可能会陷入困境，我们必须聘请外部人员来帮助我们做一些事情，但在大多数情况下，这一切都包含在内，并且您需要支付很多钱......
The naming firm I like the best when I get stuck, it's called A Hundred Monkeys.
当我陷入困境时，我最喜欢的命名公司是一百只猴子。
They're awesome.
他们太棒了。
A long time ago, I used to be like, oh yeah, it's about $25,000.
很久以前，我曾经想，哦，是的，大约是 25,000 美元。
And I recently couldn't take on an outsider First Round project and referred it to them.
最近，我无法承担外部第一轮项目，并将其推荐给他们。
It's $47,000 for a name.
一个名字的价格是47,000美元。
Arielle Jackson: So yeah, it's gotten expensive, but if you have the means, it's nice to get some outside help.
Arielle Jackson：是的，它变得很昂贵，但如果你有能力，获得一些外部帮助是很好的。
Lenny: #valueadd.
莱尼：#valueadd。
Okay.
好的。
I want to transition to your brand development framework, which I read a bunch about.
我想过渡到你们的品牌发展框架，我读了很多相关内容。
And I know you teach a course about this, which we could also chat a bit about, but first I'm curious, just practically, why is a brand useful?
我知道你教授一门关于这个的课程，我们也可以聊聊，但首先我很好奇，实际上，为什么品牌有用？
Why is it even something people should spend time investing in?
为什么人们应该花时间投资它？
Why does it matter?
为什么这很重要？
Arielle Jackson: Okay.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：好的。
So a lot of founders may think that when we say your brand, we mean your logo and your font and your colors, and that is a visual expression of your brand, but it's not actually your brand, your brand is who people think you are.
所以很多创始人可能认为，当我们说你的品牌时，我们指的是你的标志、你的字体和你的颜色，这是你品牌的视觉表达，但它实际上不是你的品牌，你的品牌是人们认为你是谁。
And so why is it important for people to think what you want them to think?
那么，为什么让人们思考你希望他们思考的事情很重要呢？
That really comes down to people's understanding and particularly your target audience's understanding of what your company and your product is.
这实际上取决于人们的理解，尤其是目标受众对您的公司和产品的理解。
And I don't really think there's anything else more important than that if I was building a company.
如果我要建立一家公司，我真的认为没有什么比这更重要的了。
Arielle Jackson: So your brand is who people think you are and developing a brand strategy is what do you want to be?
Arielle Jackson：那么你的品牌就是人们认为的你，而制定品牌战略就是你想要成为的样子？
What do you want people to think you are?
你希望人们认为你是什么？
And what are you going to do to help shape that perception?
您将采取什么措施来帮助塑造这种看法？
So when I work on a company, there's a lot of steps to this, but I kind of have this nice little process that's right sized for early stage startups.
因此，当我在一家公司工作时，有很多步骤，但我有一个适合早期初创公司规模的不错的小流程。
And I like to start with, why do you do what you do?
我喜欢首先问你为什么要做你所做的事情？
Just having a really clear understanding of that.
只要对此有一个非常清晰的认识。
That's your purpose.
这就是你的目的。
The second part is your product positioning.
第二部分是你的产品定位。
So meaning how do you want people to understand your product and what role it plays in their lives?
那么这意味着您希望人们如何了解您的产品以及它在他们的生活中扮演什么角色？
And then the last part is your personality, which is how do you show up in the world?
最后一部分是你的个性，也就是你如何出现在这个世界上？
What do you like?
你喜欢什么？
If your brand was a person, would I want to hang out with them?
如果你的品牌是一个人，我会想和他们一起出去玩吗？
Would someone else want to hang out with them?
其他人愿意和他们一起出去玩吗？
Lenny: We're going to get into each of these three pieces, but before we get in there, as a founder, how do you know when you're done with your brand development?
莱尼：我们将逐一讨论这三个部分，但在我们开始讨论之前，作为创始人，您如何知道您的品牌开发何时完成？
I know it's a never ending ongoing process, but at the end of a process, you figure out your purpose, positioning, and personality, and then there's logo and colors, when you think about just here's the brand package, what are all the little pieces of it?
我知道这是一个永无止境的持续过程，但在过程结束时，你会弄清楚你的目的、定位和个性，然后是标志和颜色，当你想到这里是品牌包装时，它的所有小部分是什么？
And then we'll dive into these three elements.
然后我们将深入探讨这三个要素。
Arielle Jackson: I think what you said is right.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我认为你说的是对的。
You get those three components, your purpose, your positioning, your personality, you use that as an informant to your visual design and also to your tone of voice.
你得到这三个组成部分，你的目的、你的定位、你的个性，你用它作为你的视觉设计和你的语气的信息。
So the way your copy sounds, the way you show up in written copy.
所以你的文案听起来如何，你在书面文案中的表现如何。
A lot of companies have what they call like a style guide or a brand style guide and it really only covers logo, fonts, colors, like don't put our logo and blue, don't tilt it on an angle, here's what it looks like in white, here's what it looks like in black, here's the favicon, but they don't have that for here's who we are, here's 10 lines that could be ad copy for us, here is why we do what we do.
很多公司都有他们所谓的风格指南或品牌风格指南，它实际上只涵盖标志、字体、颜色，比如不要把我们的标志和蓝色放在一起，不要倾斜它的角度，这是白色的样子，这是黑色的样子，这是网站图标，但他们没有这些，因为这就是我们是谁，这是可以为我们做广告文案的10行，这就是我们这样做的原因。
Arielle Jackson: This is the personality of our brand.
Arielle Jackson：这就是我们品牌的个性。
Here are five attributes.
这里有五个属性。
We are playful, but not silly.
我们很顽皮，但并不傻。
We can talk about that a little bit more.
我们可以多谈一点。
But I think all of that belongs in the style guide, not just logo, font colors, which is really just a visual articulation that feeds into your brand.
但我认为所有这些都属于风格指南，而不仅仅是徽标、字体颜色，这实际上只是融入您品牌的视觉表达。
I'm a big Volvo fan.
我是沃尔沃的忠实粉丝。
I'm on my fourth Volvo right now.
我现在拥有第四辆沃尔沃。
So I'm super brand loyal.
所以我是超级品牌忠诚度。
And I always use them as an example, because if you can picture the Volvo logo in your head right now, it kind of looks like the male symbol, it's like a circle with an arrow coming off the side.
我总是用它们作为例子，因为如果你现在能在脑海中想象沃尔沃标志，它看起来有点像男性符号，就像一个圆圈，侧面有一个箭头。
Arielle Jackson: There's nothing about that logo that means all the things I like about Volvo, all the things that the Volvo brand has come to mean to me and they're colors, they're like black and white and a little blue.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：这个标志并没有代表我喜欢沃尔沃的所有东西，沃尔沃品牌对我来说意味着的所有东西，它们是颜色，它们就像黑色和白色，还有一点蓝色。
There's nothing more boring than their color palette.
没有什么比他们的调色板更无聊的了。
And so it's not the logo and the font and the colors of Volvo that has made them mean...
因此，沃尔沃的标志、字体和颜色并不是让它们变得有意义的......
They literally own the word safety in cars right now.
他们现在确实拥有汽车安全这个词。
It's other stuff.
这是其他东西。
And if you looked at their style guide actually, looked at their style guide recently and it's just like, here's our black and our white and our blue and here's our tertiary colors and here's our logo.
如果你实际上看了他们的风格指南，最近看了他们的风格指南，就像，这是我们的黑色、白色和蓝色，这是我们的第三色，这是我们的徽标。
It would not help you understand Volvo as a brand.
它不会帮助您了解沃尔沃这个品牌。
Lenny: I'm guessing some of that happened because they've evolved over the years and it's probably a very different initial brand.
莱尼：我猜发生了一些事情，因为它们已经发展了多年，而且它可能是一个非常不同的初始品牌。
So it kind of tells me that it's more important to have a logo and a brand that can kind of represent many things that isn't so stuck in a certain positioning, maybe.
所以这告诉我，拥有一个标志和品牌更重要，它可以代表许多不那么局限于某个定位的东西。
Does that resonate at all?
这能引起共鸣吗？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
Their logo has to do with a very early history.
他们的标志与非常早期的历史有关。
I researched this because I was a nerd out on this stuff.
我研究这个是因为我是这个东西的书呆子。
They had some early history as a ball bearings company.
他们作为滚珠轴承公司有一些早期历史。
And so I guess that logo had some meaning then, but it wasn't so descriptive to being a ball bearing company that they were able to keep it as they evolved into a car company.
所以我想这个标志当时有一定的意义，但它对于一家滚珠轴承公司的描述性并不强，以至于他们在发展成为一家汽车公司时能够保留它。
Arielle Jackson: But if you look at their early writing, it's so cool.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：但如果你看看他们早期的作品，那就太酷了。
It's so cool.
太酷了。
Long, long time ago they would talk about cars are driven by humans.
很久很久以前，他们会谈论汽车是由人类驾驶的。
And our job as a car manufacturer is to protect the humans who drive the cars.
作为汽车制造商，我们的工作是保护驾驶汽车的人。
That was fundamental formation of the company.
这就是公司的基本组成。
So they really knew why they existed.
所以他们真的知道自己为什么存在。
And then they did stuff in I think it was the 1950s when everyone just wore lap bands in the car and they came out with the three point safety harness and instead of patenting it and licensing it, they gave that away for free for everyone because that would make all the world's cars safer and those kinds of company decisions.
然后他们在我认为是 20 世纪 50 年代做了一些事情，当时每个人都在车里戴了腰带，他们推出了三点式安全带，他们没有申请专利和许可，而是免费向所有人提供，因为这将使世界上所有的汽车更加安全，公司的决策也变得更加安全。
That's what made Volvo stand for safety.
这就是沃尔沃代表安全的原因。
It's not the logo.
这不是标志。
Lenny: This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens.
莱尼：这一集是由 Athletic Greens 为您带来的。
I've been hearing about AG1 on basically every podcast that I listened to, like Tim Ferris, and Lex Fridman, and so I finally gave it a shot earlier this year and it has quickly become a core part of my morning routine, especially on days that I need to go deep on writing or record a podcast like this.
我基本上在我听过的每个播客上都听说过 AG1，比如 Tim Ferris 和 Lex Fridman，所以我终于在今年早些时候尝试了一下，它很快就成为我早上例行公事的核心部分，尤其是在我需要深入写作或录制这样的播客的时候。
Here's three things that I love about AG1.
以下是我喜欢 AG1 的三点。
One with a small scoop that dissolves in water.
一个有一小勺，可溶于水。
You are absorbing 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics and adaptogens.
您正在吸收 75 种维生素、矿物质、益生菌和适应原。
I kind of like to think of it as a safety net for my nutrition in case I've missed something in my diet.
我有点喜欢将其视为我的营养安全网，以防我在饮食中遗漏了某些东西。
Two, they treat AG1 like a software product.
第二，他们将 AG1 视为软件产品。
Apparently they're on their 52nd iteration and they're constantly evolving it based on latest science research studies and internal testing that they do.
显然他们正在进行第 52 次迭代，并且根据最新的科学研究和内部测试不断改进它。
Lenny: And three, it's just one easy thing that I can do every single day to take care of myself.
莱尼：第三，这只是我每天可以做的一件简单的事情来照顾自己。
Right now, it's time to reclaim your health and arm your immune system with convenient daily nutrition.
现在，是时候恢复您的健康并用方便的日常营养来武装您的免疫系统了。
It's just one scoop and a cup of water every day.
每天只需一勺和一杯水。
And that's it.
就是这样。
There's no need for a million different pills and supplements to look out for your health.
无需使用一百万种不同的药物和补充剂来照顾您的健康。
Make it easy.
让一切变得简单。
Athletic Greens is going to give you a free one year supply of immune supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase.
Athletic Greens 将为您提供一年免费的免疫支持维生素 D 和 5 个免费旅行套装。
All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/lenny.
您所要做的就是访问 sportsgreens.com/lenny。
Lenny: Again, that's athletic greens.com/lenny to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance.
Lenny：再说一次，sports greens.com/lenny 可以掌控您的健康并获得终极的每日营养保险。
Lenny: One question on my mind before we get into these three elements, last question kind of setting context is if I'm a non founder or a PM, I'm just like, oh my God, a branding exercise is going to take months going to suck up all these resources.
Lenny：在我们讨论这三个要素之前，我脑子里有一个问题，最后一个问题是，如果我是非创始人还是产品经理，我会想，天哪，品牌推广活动需要几个月的时间才能吸收所有这些资源。
I don't know what it's going to do for us.
我不知道它会给我们带来什么。
What kind of timeframe do you recommend for early stage companies to go through kind of a branding exercise and go through something like this and maybe even later stage, what's reasonable?
您建议早期阶段的公司在什么样的时间范围内进行品牌推广活动，并经历类似的事情，甚至后期阶段，什么是合理的？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
It depends on the stage of your company and how much you have already that you have to kind of...
这取决于您公司的阶段以及您已经拥有多少...
It's hard for people to scrap up what they already have.
人们很难放弃已经拥有的东西。
There's a lot of sunk cost fallacy type stuff going on.
有很多沉没成本谬误类型的事情正在发生。
If you're starting from nothing, I think you can do this in three weeks.
如果你从零开始，我认为你可以在三周内完成。
The naming process itself because of trademark and domains can take a little longer.
由于商标和域名的原因，命名过程本身可能需要更长的时间。
When I name companies, it usually takes about a month just for naming, but the whole brand strategy process you could do, if you're a really early stage company in a matter of weeks.
当我给公司命名时，通常仅仅命名就需要大约一个月的时间，但如果你是一家真正处于早期阶段的公司，你可以在几周内完成整个品牌战略流程。
Arielle Jackson: And I think whatever time it takes you actually is going to save you so much time down the road.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我认为无论你花费什么时间，实际上都会为你节省很多时间。
It's going to help you save time on company decision making.
它将帮助您节省公司决策的时间。
It's going to help you save time, writing your website.
它将帮助您节省编写网站的时间。
Literally your web copy almost writes itself, if you get this all done right.
从字面上看，如果你把这一切都做对了，你的网络副本几乎是自己写的。
So it's a small investment of time up front that actually saves you a lot of time down the road is how I would sell it to a skeptical PM.
因此，这只是预先投入的一小部分时间，实际上可以为您节省大量时间，这就是我将其卖给持怀疑态度的 PM 的方式。
Lenny: You've sold it.
莱尼：你已经把它卖掉了。
That sounds very high ROI.
这听起来投资回报率非常高。
Let's get into it.
让我们开始吧。
Lenny: So purpose is the first piece.
莱尼：所以目的是第一部分。
What is that?
那是什么？
And then what are some examples of really good executions of purpose that you've seen?
那么您见过哪些真正良好地执行目标的例子？
Arielle Jackson: Sure.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：当然。
So your purpose is why you do what you do.
所以你的目的就是你做你所做的事情的原因。
It makes people want to root for you.
这会让人们想要支持你。
And it has a big role in aligning people to come want to work for you and to have employees all feel like they're part of something.
它在让人们愿意为你工作以及让员工都感觉自己是某件事的一部分方面发挥着重要作用。
I like to think of it as we exist to blank.
我喜欢将其视为我们存在的空白。
And whatever that blank is your purpose.
无论那个空白是什么，都是你的目的。
Do you want to hear about examples or do you want to hear about what makes a good purpose?
您想听一些例子还是想听一下什么是好的目的？
Arielle Jackson: So a good purpose, it explains the change you want to see in the world irrespective of financial gain.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：这是一个很好的目的，它解释了你希望在世界上看到的变化，而不管经济收益如何。
So people often get hung up on mission and vision and values and all this stuff.
因此，人们常常沉迷于使命、愿景、价值观以及所有这些东西。
And values are fine.
而且价值观都很好。
They're internal.
他们是内部的。
I'm not going to talk about those today, but I don't care about mission and vision.
我今天不打算谈论这些，但我不关心使命和愿景。
I just want one thing because people can only remember one thing and it's your purpose and it's why you do what you do.
我只想要一件事，因为人们只能记住一件事，那就是你的目的，这就是你做你所做的事情的原因。
And when you articulate this really well, it helps you make company decisions, it exists on a 10 year frame.
当你很好地阐明这一点时，它可以帮助你做出公司决策，它存在于 10 年的框架内。
So everything we talk about with product positioning, it's pretty malleable.
因此，我们谈论的有关产品定位的一切都具有很大的可塑性。
It exists on an 18 month frame if you're a early stage company, so it can evolve, whereas your purpose is pretty much going to stay the same for 10 years.
如果您是一家早期公司，它的期限为 18 个月，因此它可以不断发展，而您的目标在 10 年内几乎保持不变。
It's that north star.
就是那颗北极星。
Arielle Jackson: And it helps align people in the company and it helps the public want you to win.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：它有助于公司内部人员的团结，也有助于公众希望你获胜。
I worked at Google right out of grad school and Google's purpose was to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful.
我刚从研究生院毕业就在谷歌工作，谷歌的目的是组织全世界的信息，让所有人都能访问和使用这些信息。
And I thought every company had a purpose that everyone at the company knew.
我认为每家公司都有一个公司每个人都知道的目标。
I just thought that was my first real job.
我只是以为那是我的第一份真正的工作。
It turns out that's not true.
事实证明这不是真的。
And Google's actually been amazing at this.
事实上，谷歌在这方面做得非常出色。
I had a person in my last cohort who had recently left Google when they were like, I don't know, 80 or a hundred thousand people.
在我的上一批人中，有一个人最近离开了 Google，当时他们大概有 80 或 10 万人，我不知道。
He said everyone still can say that.
他说每个人仍然可以这么说。
That's amazing.
太棒了。
But I joined, it was like 1400 people.
但我加入了，大概有1400人。
And by the time of your first day, you already knew that.
当你第一天上班时，你就已经知道了这一点。
It was part of your hiring process.
这是您招聘流程的一部分。
Arielle Jackson: It was part of your onboarding.
Arielle Jackson：这是你入职的一部分。
It was in your offer letter.
你的录取通知书里有。
It was everywhere.
它无处不在。
And I just thought that was really cool and a good purpose.
我只是觉得这真的很酷而且是一个很好的目的。
One that is kind of related to financial gain, but I still think is cool is Stripe's, which is to increase the GDP of the internet.
其中一个与经济收益相关，但我仍然认为很酷的是 Stripe，它是为了增加互联网的 GDP。
I think that's really well said and cool and just gets you thinking about the internet as a country.
我认为这句话说得很好，很酷，让你思考互联网作为一个国家。
I don't know.
我不知道。
If you're an internet person, it makes you want to root for them.
如果你是一个互联网人，这会让你想支持他们。
Arielle Jackson: Nike's is awesome.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：耐克的非常棒。
I wrote Nike's down because I don't remember it, to bring inspiration and innovation to every athlete in the world.
我把耐克写下来是因为我不记得了，为世界上每一位运动员带来灵感和创新。
And if you have a body, you are an athlete.
如果你有身体，你就是一名运动员。
It's not just about LeBron it's about me and how was my Peloton ride this morning too?
这不仅与勒布朗有关，也与我有关，今天早上我的大部队骑行怎么样？
So those are some famous companies.
这些都是一些著名的公司。
I could tell you a little bit about some that I've worked on that I think are pretty cool that are companies you may not have heard of yet, just because sometimes we get hung up in like thinking Stripe and Nike and Google are awesome names because of all the meaning we have behind them.
我可以告诉你一些我曾参与过的一些公司，我认为这些公司非常酷，你可能还没有听说过，只是因为有时我们会沉迷于认为 Stripe、Nike 和 Google 是很棒的名字，因为它们背后有我们所拥有的所有含义。
And I want to talk about some companies you may not have heard of because you can have a good purpose and not be Stripe and Nike and Google.
我想谈谈一些你可能没有听说过的公司，因为你可以有一个好的目标，而不是成为 Stripe、耐克和谷歌。
Lenny: Yeah.
莱尼：是的。
That'd be awesome.
那太棒了。
And by the way, the purpose, should it be a sentence?
顺便问一下，目的，应该是一个句子吗？
Is that the general-
这就是将军——
Arielle Jackson: So you can introduce yourself at a conference.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：所以你可以在会议上介绍自己。
You're the keynote speaker at a conference and I want you to introduce yourself and I want you to go, hi, I'm Lenny, I'm the founder of the company X, and we exist to blah and say it and have that feel natural.
你是一次会议上的主讲人，我想让你介绍一下自己，然后我想让你走，嗨，我是莱尼，我是 X 公司的创始人，我们的存在就是为了喋喋不休地说出来，让这种感觉很自然。
Arielle Jackson: And it should make people want to hear what else you have to say.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：这应该会让人们想听听你还有什么要说的。
And the other thing it should be able to do is be the header for your about page.
它应该能够做的另一件事是作为“关于”页面的标题。
So meaning we exist to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
所以这意味着我们的存在是为了废话、废话、废话、废话、废话。
But you would just take out the we exist and say the verb and start there.
但你只需取出“我们存在”并说出动词并从那里开始。
That could be the header for your about page.
这可能是您的“关于”页面的标题。
So one company I worked on, First Round company, they're called LogicLoop and it's an operations automation company.
我工作过的一家公司是 First Round 公司，他们的名字叫 LogicLoop，是一家运营自动化公司。
Arielle Jackson: You can think of it almost stuff like a no code, low code platform to automate a lot of the operations data based work that people have to do.
Arielle Jackson：你可以把它想象成一个无代码、低代码平台，可以自动化人们必须做的许多基于操作数据的工作。
And we did this whole brainstorm and I really liked their purpose.
我们进行了整个头脑风暴，我真的很喜欢他们的目的。
You can look at their about page.
你可以看看他们的关于页面。
It will be right there it's to make operations data work harder than operations people.
它将让运营数据比运营人员更加努力地工作。
And if you ever have worked in operations or have friends who have, they work really, really hard and it can be kind of thankless.
如果你曾经在运营部门工作过，或者你的朋友曾经在运营部门工作过，你会发现他们工作真的非常努力，而且可能有点吃力不讨好。
So it gets anyone in that field to root for you.
因此，它会让该领域的任何人都支持你。
Your data should be working harder than your operations people.
您的数据应该比您的运营人员更努力地工作。
Lenny: Disclaimer, I'm an investor in LogicLoop, and I love that you worked with them.
Lenny：免责声明，我是 LogicLoop 的投资者，我很高兴您与他们合作。
Arielle Jackson: Cool.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：酷。
Awesome.
惊人的。
And then another one that I worked on of another First Round company, they're called Woolf.
然后我在另一家第一轮公司工作过，他们叫伍尔夫。
They're informed by the UC model where there's a bunch of individual schools that all exist by themselves, but they get something from being part of a larger organization.
他们从加州大学的模型中得知，其中有一堆单独的学校，它们都是独立存在的，但他们从成为一个更大的组织的一部分中得到了一些东西。
And what they do is they provide accreditation through being part of the larger Woolf University, but every individual college can still operate as their own independent college.
他们所做的是通过成为更大的伍尔夫大学的一部分来提供认证，但每个单独的学院仍然可以作为自己的独立学院运作。
Arielle Jackson: And so their purpose is to increase access to world class higher education and ensure that it is globally recognized and transferable.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：所以他们的目的是增加获得世界一流高等教育的机会，并确保其得到全球认可和可转移。
So this idea of you should be able to take a class from the best instructor online and then go travel to Australia and take a class there and then go to China and take a class there and get the best education that the world can offer.
因此，你的想法应该能够在网上参加最好的教练的课程，然后去澳大利亚旅行并在那里上课，然后去中国并在那里上课，并获得世界上最好的教育。
Arielle Jackson: Another one that I worked on a while ago is Alt.
Arielle Jackson：我不久前做过的另一件事是 Alt。
I think they've recently gone through a little bit of like a rebranding, but theirs was to increase the transparency and liquidity of alternative assets.
我认为他们最近经历了一些类似于品牌重塑的过程，但他们的目的是提高另类资产的透明度和流动性。
And in their case, the product positioning was really about making sports cards as easy to invest in as stocks.
就他们而言，产品定位实际上是让体育卡像股票一样容易投资。
So the idea of alternative assets in this case are not private equity and hedge funds in real estate, but alternatives to alternatives, like sports cards and Pokemon cards and art.
因此，在这种情况下，另类资产的概念不是房地产领域的私募股权和对冲基金，而是另类资产的替代品，例如运动卡、口袋妖怪卡和艺术品。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
Those are so many awesome examples.
这些都是很多很棒的例子。
That's going to be useful for people to wrap their head around what a purpose might be.
这对于人们了解目的可能很有用。
Execution wise, do you just kind of open up a Google doc and just start writing out ideas and brainstorm a little bit and just kind of keep refining with your team?
在执行方面，您是否只是打开 Google 文档，然后开始写下想法并集思广益，然后与您的团队一起不断完善？
Arielle Jackson: I actually stole this exercise or borrowed it from that I actually think adds some structure to that.
Arielle Jackson：我实际上偷了这个练习，或者借用了它，我实际上认为它增加了一些结构。
If you do it that way and it works for you, that's awesome.
如果你这样做并且它对你有用，那就太棒了。
But if you want to go in and go through a process to get there, what I like to do is list all of the cultural tensions that are happening in the world that are relevant to your business first.
但如果你想进入并经历一个过程来实现这一目标，我喜欢做的就是首先列出世界上正在发生的与你的业务相关的所有文化紧张局势。
And so for Alt, that would be things like there's an increase in interest in alternatives.
因此，对于 Alt 来说，这就是人们对替代品的兴趣增加。
People who are now in their 30s are nostalgic for things that happened in the '90s There is at the time really low interest rates and people are not getting any sort of edge off of investing in the things that their parents used to invest in.
现在30多岁的人会怀念90年代发生的事情，当时的利率非常低，人们在投资他们父母过去投资的东西时没有任何优势。
So those would be examples of cultural tensions.
所以这些都是文化紧张的例子。
Cultural tensions are zeitgeist, their things that your audience might be thinking of.
文化紧张是时代精神，是你的观众可能会想到的事情。
Arielle Jackson: They're things that they may be even subconscious to them, their current events.
Arielle Jackson：他们甚至可能是潜意识里的事情，他们的时事。
So you make a long list of all of those.
所以你列出了所有这些的长长的清单。
Then you make a long list of all the ways that you might describe your brand's best self.
然后你列出一长串可以描述你的品牌最好的自我的所有方式。
And this is related to your product positioning, but let's say you haven't done yet, so just think of it as your brand's best self.
而这和你的产品定位有关，但是假设你还没有做到，那就把它当作你的品牌最好的自我吧。
How would we want someone to describe us?
我们希望别人如何描述我们？
When everything works perfectly, and our product really delivers, what does it deliver?
当一切都完美运行并且我们的产品真正交付时，它交付了什么？
And again, bullets, just ways that you would talk about that.
再说一遍，子弹，就是你谈论这个问题的方式。
And then you pick one from each side, that's really the best articulation of what's happening in the world, what your product delivers, and with that context, now you're primed.
然后你从每一方面选择一个，这确实是世界上正在发生的事情、你的产品所提供的内容的最佳表述，有了这样的背景，现在你就准备好了。
Arielle Jackson: With that context in mind, now you do the brainstorm of, we exist to let me finish this sentence, and even before you get there, sometimes it's helpful to do the world would be a better place if.
阿莉尔·杰克逊（Arielle Jackson）：考虑到这一背景，现在你可以集思广益，我们的存在是为了让我完成这句话，甚至在你到达那里之前，有时做这样的事情会很有帮助：如果世界会变得更美好。
So for my company, the world would be a better place if, and finish that sentence and then go into the we exist to.
因此，对于我的公司来说，如果完成这句话，然后进入我们存在的意义，世界将会变得更加美好。
Lenny: Wow.
莱尼：哇。
I'm so happy I asked that question.
我很高兴我问了这个问题。
By the way, is there also a place we can point people to that want to do this exercise?
顺便问一下，我们是否还可以向人们指出想要进行此练习的地方？
Is there another First Round interview post, or I know you have a course on this too.
还有其他第一轮面试的帖子吗，或者我知道你们也有这方面的课程。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
There's another First Round review article it's called Three Moves Every Startup Founder Should Make, something like that
还有另一篇第一轮评论文章，名为《每个初创公司创始人应该采取的三步走》，类似的东西
Lenny: Great.
莱尼：太好了。
I will find it and I'll add it.
我会找到它并添加它。
Lenny: Amazing.
莱尼：太棒了。
Okay.
好的。
Let's move on to the next part, which is around positioning, which is a big deal.
让我们继续下一部分，这是围绕定位的，这是一个大问题。
First, just what is positioning?
首先，什么是定位？
And then I'd love to know just what tells you may have a positioning problem, that's something you should really focus on?
然后我很想知道是什么告诉你可能存在定位问题，这是你真正应该关注的事情？
Arielle Jackson: Okay.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：好的。
So positioning is the space that you occupy in your target customer's mind and everything you can do to influence how they describe your product.
因此，定位是您在目标客户心中占据的空间，以及您可以采取的一切措施来影响他们如何描述您的产品。
You have a positioning problem if I ask 10 of your customers or 10 of your employees what the company does or what the product does.
如果我问你的 10 名客户或 10 名员工，你的公司是做什么的，或者产品是做什么的，那么你就遇到了定位问题。
And I get multiple answers.
我得到了多个答案。
And unfortunately that's the case for most companies.
不幸的是，大多数公司都是这种情况。
It's okay if the answers are tiny slight variance on the same thing, but I have actually done this with some later stage companies my first step is often I go in and I interview 10 people, and the 10 people are everyone from execs to people who talk to customers to a few customers.
如果同一件事的答案有微小的差异，那也没关系，但实际上我已经对一些处于后期阶段的公司做过这样的事情，我的第一步通常是采访 10 个人，这 10 个人都是从高管到与客户交谈的人。
And when you get 10 people saying 10 wildly different things, you have a positioning problem.
当 10 个人说出 10 种截然不同的事情时，你就会遇到定位问题。
Other ways you might know that if you have a positioning problem is if you can't explain what you do to me in a sentence that's, you have a positioning problem.
您可能会通过其他方式知道，如果您遇到定位问题，如果您无法用一句话向我解释您所做的事情，那么您就有定位问题。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah, it is.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的，确实如此。
And when I first started consulting, I would spend the first meeting with a founder, just totally cold.
当我第一次开始咨询时，我会在与创始人的第一次会面中完全冷淡。
Hey, tell me about your company.
嘿，跟我说说你的公司吧。
And they would take 30 minutes to tell me about their company.
他们会花 30 分钟向我介绍他们的公司。
And at the end of 30 minutes, I would pretty much get it, but it always took the first 30 minutes.
在 30 分钟结束时，我几乎能明白，但总是需要前 30 分钟。
So now when I engage with a new company, I have them fill out this little worksheet beforehand.
所以现在当我与一家新公司合作时，我会让他们提前填写这张小工作表。
And one of the questions is what do you do?
问题之一是你做什么？
And they have to write in a box that's kind of paragraph length.
他们必须在一个盒子里写下段落长度。
Arielle Jackson: And then I go in and I ask questions about that.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：然后我进去问相关问题。
And ultimately we get it to sentence length.
最终我们得到了句子的长度。
Lenny: Amazing.
莱尼：太棒了。
Okay.
好的。
How do you go about figuring out your positioning?
您如何确定自己的定位？
Big question.
大问题。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So I start with your audience.
所以我从你们的听众开始。
Who's this for?
这是给谁的？
And we really think about what's the broadest set of customers or users that you might have and narrow in from there to a target audience, which is who are you outwardly going to try to acquire for the next 18 months?
我们确实会考虑您可能拥有的最广泛的客户或用户群体是什么，然后从那里缩小到目标受众，即您在未来 18 个月内打算尝试获取的目标受众是谁？
Arielle Jackson: You can think of it like concentric circles.
Arielle Jackson：你可以把它想象成同心圆。
The biggest circle is your TAM.
最大的圈子就是你的 TAM。
As you get smaller, there's five parts to it.
当你变得更小时，它有五个部分。
So the biggest circle is circle one, circle two, circle three, circle four is your target audience.
所以最大的圈是圈一，圈二，圈三，圈四就是你的目标受众。
All of the circles have to be contained within the bigger circle.
所有的圆圈都必须包含在更大的圆圈内。
And then the dot in the middle is your model persona.
然后中间的点就是你的模型角色。
So this is actually like a person with a name and an age and a location and a job and feelings and priorities and interests and all of that.
所以这实际上就像一个人有名字、年龄、地点、工作、感情、优先事项和兴趣等等。
Arielle Jackson: And so we talk about the model user and the target audience, the target audience again is who will you outwardly try to acquire for the next 18 months?
Arielle Jackson：所以我们谈论模型用户和目标受众，目标受众又是您在接下来的 18 个月内将试图获取的谁？
If you're an early stage company, it's very possible that you're going to acquire people outside of that circle, in the next circle or even the bigger circle, but they're not who you're actively going out to try to acquire.
如果你是一家处于早期阶段的公司，你很可能会收购那个圈子之外、下一个圈子甚至更大圈子的人，但他们并不是你积极去尝试收购的人。
Lenny: Can I ask you a couple questions on the person?
莱尼：我可以问你几个关于这个人的问题吗？
Lenny: I'm doing some writing and research into this stuff.
莱尼：我正在对这些东西进行一些写作和研究。
How specific do you suggest people get with this person right at the middle?
您建议人们对处于中间位置的这个人采取多具体的建议？
I love that it's an actual person, I guess not a real person, but a very descriptive
我喜欢它是一个真实的人，我想不是一个真实的人，而是一个非常具有描述性的人
Arielle Jackson: Can be a real person or an amalgamation of not real people.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：可以是一个真实的人，也可以是非真实的人的混合体。
So with the target audience, I like to think of it as something you could name.
因此，对于目标受众，我喜欢将其视为您可以命名的东西。
So with Eero, it was tech savvy dads.
所以对于 Eero 来说，是精通技术的爸爸们。
It's a category of people.
这是一类人。
And then the model persona, or that individual user who represents a tech savvy dad for them was this guy who had teenage kids lived in suburban St. Louis, had a 2,800 Square foot house that was made of brick, worked at home on Fridays.
然后，模型角色，或者代表他们的精通技术的父亲的个人用户是这个人，他有十几岁的孩子住在圣路易斯郊区，拥有一栋 2,800 平方英尺的砖房，周五在家工作。
His kids were into gaming.
他的孩子们热衷于游戏。
He was the VP of sales at a company that was tech adjacent, but not tech.
他是一家与科技相邻但又不属于科技的公司的销售副总裁。
He was more of like a tech enthusiast than an actual software engineer.
他更像是一名技术爱好者，而不是一名真正的软件工程师。
We knew a lot about him.
我们对他了解很多。
I could tell you a lot about him.
我可以告诉你很多关于他的事情。
It's kind of robust, but tech savvy dads was the way to represent him and other people like him, that would be their target audience.
它有点强大，但精通技术的爸爸是代表他和其他像他一样的人的方式，这将是他们的目标受众。
Lenny: A lot of founders have trouble recognizing that going very focused and niche is a good idea versus man, I'm just going to have these 10 people in the world that really want what I want.
Lenny：很多创始人都很难认识到，与人相比，非常专注和利基市场是一个好主意，我只想让世界上这 10 个人真正想要我想要的东西。
What have you found to be the reason it's very powerful and important to start really focused?
您发现开始真正专注非常强大且重要的原因是什么？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So when you are an early stage company, the worst thing you can do is try to be everything to everyone because you don't have enough runway.
因此，当你是一家处于早期阶段的公司时，你能做的最糟糕的事情就是尝试为每个人提供一切，因为你没有足够的跑道。
You just don't have enough of anything to do that successfully.
你只是没有足够的东西来成功地做到这一点。
The best thing you can do is find an audience that is big enough, that if you got your significant market share among that audience, you'd be a giant business.
你能做的最好的事情就是找到一个足够大的受众，如果你在这些受众中获得了显着的市场份额，你就会成为一个巨大的企业。
And tech savvy dads is a pretty big audience.
精通科技的爸爸们是一个相当大的受众。
Also that's just who your outbound going to try to acquire for the next 18 months.
这也是您的出境营销在接下来的 18 个月内想要争取的人。
I'm a tech savvy mom.
我是一位精通技术的妈妈。
I live with a tech savvy dad.
我和一位精通科技的爸爸住在一起。
I have an Eero system.
我有一个 Eero 系统。
It doesn't mean everyone you'll ever acquire must be in that audience, it means that is who we're focused on acquiring.
这并不意味着您将获得的每个人都必须属于该受众群体，而是意味着这就是我们专注于获得的人。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
I took us off course around the positioning process.
我让我们在定位过程中偏离了航线。
I think we kind of went off course with concentric circles model.
我认为我们有点偏离了同心圆模型的方向。
So I'll give it back to you to keep going.
所以我会把它还给你继续前进。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
Okay.
好的。
So the way that I like to run positioning exercise is to start with who is this for?
所以我喜欢进行定位练习的方式是从这适合谁开始？
And then what is the problem that they have?
那么他们有什么问题呢？
There's some problem usually that these people have, they may not even be aware it's a problem, or they may not be experiencing the problem as particularly troubling, but there's something going on for these people.
这些人通常会遇到一些问题，他们甚至可能没有意识到这是一个问题，或者他们可能没有遇到特别麻烦的问题，但这些人正在发生一些事情。
And then how do they address that problem today?
那么他们今天如何解决这个问题呢？
So they do something, they're buying something, they're have a workaround, they're doing something today.
所以他们做了一些事情，他们买了一些东西，他们有一个解决方法，他们今天就在做一些事情。
And that something might not be another startup or your direct competitor.
而且这个东西可能不是另一家初创公司或你的直接竞争对手。
It might be the old way of doing things, but they're doing something.
这可能是旧的做事方式，但他们正在做一些事情。
So we go through who is it for?
那么我们来看看它是为谁准备的？
What's their problem?
他们的问题是什么？
How do they address it?
他们如何解决这个问题？
And then what do you make?
然后你做什么？
Arielle Jackson: How does it work?
阿莉尔·杰克逊：它是如何运作的？
And what would you want a user of your product or service to tell another?
您希望您的产品或服务的用户告诉其他用户什么？
And that's kind of if you answer all of those questions, it ultimately leads into this classic four statement, which is not something I invented, it's something that's been around for 40 or 50 years.
如果你回答所有这些问题，最终就会得出这个经典的四句话，这不是我发明的，它已经存在了 40 或 50 年。
And I learned it when I was 22.
我22岁时就学会了。
And I think it's one of the most powerful tools in marketing.
我认为它是营销中最强大的工具之一。
It can feel like mad libs if you just approach it cold.
如果你只是冷漠地对待它，它会让人感觉像是疯狂的自由。
But if you've gone through that work of defining who is it and what's their problem, all it is a distillation of that.
但如果你已经完成了定义它是谁以及他们的问题是什么的工作，那么所有这些都只是其中的升华。
So that statement is for target audience who there's a statement of need or opportunity.
因此，该声明适用于有需求或机会声明的目标受众。
And then you say our product name is a category that has a benefit, unlike the old thing they were doing, our product works this other way.
然后你说我们的产品名称是一个有好处的类别，与他们以前做的事情不同，我们的产品以另一种方式工作。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
And we'll link to the post that actually has that so people don't have to write this all down.
我们将链接到实际包含该内容的帖子，这样人们就不必将其全部写下来。
That last piece you mentioned, I hadn't heard before, the idea of what will they tell other people or how will they describe it to other people?
你提到的最后一篇文章，我以前没有听说过，他们会告诉其他人什么，或者他们将如何向其他人描述它？
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
So I believe that great benefits if you've defined your benefit really, really well will actually be the thing that will be the H1 on your homepage and will be the thing that you want someone to tell someone else.
因此，我相信，如果您非常非常好地定义了自己的福利，那么巨大的福利实际上将成为您主页上的 H1 内容，并且将成为您希望别人告诉其他人的内容。
Think about Square Stand and turn your iPad into a point of sale.
考虑一下 Square Stand，将您的 iPad 变成一个销售点。
Turn your iPad into a point of sale.
将您的 iPad 变成销售点。
Yeah.
是的。
If I went to a small business owner and they were having drinks with a friend, who's also a small business owner, what would I want them to say about the Square Stand?
如果我去拜访一位小企业主，他们正在与一位也是小企业主的朋友喝酒，我希望他们对 Square Stand 说些什么？
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
I just got the Square Stand.
我刚拿到方形支架。
It's this really cool new register that turns my iPad into a point of sale.
正是这款非常酷的新收银机将我的 iPad 变成了一个销售点。
That's pretty much exactly what I want them to say.
这正是我想让他们说的。
And so if you can write that line, that is your ideal benefit, what you want people to say, and it's something that your target audience would actually say, that's great.
因此，如果你能写下这句话，那就是你的理想利益，你希望人们说的话，而且你的目标受众实际上会说的话，那就太好了。
Lenny: Interesting.
莱尼：有趣。
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
That makes a lot of sense.
这很有意义。
For people trying to go through this exercise, you always have such a good answers to how actually the process of coming up with say you're positioning this case, is it again, you pull up a doc and start writing things or is there something even more structured?
对于尝试完成此练习的人来说，您总是有一个很好的答案，可以说明您正在定位此案例的过程实际上是如何，是再次，您拿出文档并开始写东西还是有更结构化的东西？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
There's something more structured.
还有一些更结构化的东西。
I have kind of a worksheet that goes through all those things we just talked about.
我有一张工作表，涵盖了我们刚才讨论的所有内容。
So it's like, who is it for?
所以这就像是，它是给谁的？
What are they doing today?
他们今天在做什么？
All those questions we just talked about, it's more like a structured brainstorm.
我们刚才谈到的所有这些问题，更像是一场结构化的头脑风暴。
There's an exercise I really love that I've called the bar test that is helping you get everything you've written into human language because one of the really big pitfalls I see, especially for B2B companies, but really for everyone is they write in a way that people don't talk.
有一个我非常喜欢的练习，我称之为“酒吧测试”，它可以帮助你将你所写的所有内容转化为人类语言，因为我看到了一个真正的大陷阱，特别是对于 B2B 公司来说，但实际上对于每个人来说，他们的写作方式都是人们不会说话的。
So the document, when I get the first draft back from founders often has things like leverages and empowers and nobody talks like that.
因此，当我从创始人那里收到初稿时，该文件通常包含诸如杠杆和授权之类的内容，但没有人这样谈论。
And so getting this into turns your iPad into a point of sale blankets your home in fast, reliable wifi, records your screen and cam at the same time, really basic stuff that it describes your product in a way that someone would actually say that's the type of language that I think people want to use.
因此，把它变成一个销售点，让你的 iPad 成为一个销售点，用快速、可靠的 wifi 覆盖你的家，同时记录你的屏幕和摄像头，这是非常基本的东西，它以某种方式描述你的产品，有人实际上会说这是我认为人们想要使用的语言类型。
Arielle Jackson: First of all, you defined your target.
Arielle Jackson：首先，你确定了你的目标。
Now you pretend to be someone in your target, having drinks with someone else in your target at a bar and you have to be able to say, hey, I just started using product name.
现在你假装是你的目标中的某个人，在酒吧与你的目标中的其他人一起喝酒，你必须能够说，嘿，我刚刚开始使用产品名称。
It's this really great category, that benefit.
这是一个非常好的类别，有好处。
And the other person goes, hm, tell me more or that's cool, what do you mean?
另一个人说，嗯，告诉我更多，或者没关系，你是什么意思？
Or some other similar prompts.
或者其他一些类似的提示。
And then you have to say your differentiator.
然后你必须说出你的与众不同之处。
You actually have to say it out loud.
实际上你必须大声说出来。
And if you run through that test and it's actually stuff people would say out loud, then you've done a pretty good job and you can start using that copy publicly.
如果你完成了这个测试，并且它实际上是人们会大声说出来的东西，那么你已经做得很好了，你可以开始公开使用该副本。
Lenny: That is very cool.
莱尼：那太酷了。
I have not heard this bar test before and I like that it might happen at an actual bar.
我以前没有听过这个酒吧测试，我喜欢它可能在实际的酒吧发生。
Is that also something people can find online or is that they write it down right now?
人们是否也可以在网上找到这些内容，或者他们现在就把它写下来？
Arielle Jackson: Ooh, I don't know if that's online.
Arielle Jackson：哦，我不知道这是否在网上。
Lenny: Okay, cool.
莱尼：好的，酷。
This is it.
就是这样。
Exclusive.
独家的。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah, that's in my course, and we talk a lot about that and we go through the exercise like a real role play in the course, but yeah, take some notes.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：是的，这在我的课程中，我们谈论了很多，并且我们像课程中的真实角色扮演一样进行练习，但是，是的，做一些笔记。
Lenny: Your point reminded me of an email I just pulled up that I got from ADP, your point about just you want to make sure you're branding is something that feels like something you would say to a person.
Lenny：你的观点让我想起了我刚刚从 ADP 收到的一封电子邮件，你的观点是你想要确保你的品牌是你会对别人说的话。
So it's like ADP, which is a security service for fire, like alarms.
所以它就像 ADP，它是一种火灾安全服务，比如警报器。
I got this email, summer's on with fun or our free secure app and more.
我收到了这封电子邮件，夏天即将到来，乐趣无穷，我们的免费安全应用程序等等。
And then it's like make summer safer and more fun at home or away.
然后，就像让夏天在家或外出时变得更安全、更有趣。
ADP, you're not going to make it more fun.
ADP，你不会让它变得更有趣。
What are you talking about?
你在说什么？
Arielle Jackson: See, that's an example of trying too hard.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：看，这是一个过于努力的例子。
They tried too hard to make it sound colloquial and fun.
他们太努力地想让它听起来口语化和有趣。
They're a security system, it should be more like secure your home while you're away.
它们是一个安全系统，它应该更像是在您外出时保护您的家。
Feel safe when you're on your summer trip.
让您在夏季旅行时感到安全。
Stuff like that.
诸如此类的事情。
Lenny: They even included a gif of this TikTok'er being like ADP is my MVP.
Lenny：他们甚至还附上了这位 TikTok 用户的 gif 动图，就像 ADP 是我的 MVP 一样。
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
This kind of relates to brand personality where the brand personality for ADP, I don't know, it's pretty not fun.
这与品牌个性有关，ADP 的品牌个性我不知道，这很不好玩。
And so for them, when they put on fun hat, it seems awkward and forced.
所以对他们来说，当他们戴上有趣的帽子时，就显得尴尬和被迫。
Lenny: That's exactly the feeling I got.
莱尼：这正是我的感觉。
And so, yeah, personality, that's our next topic.
所以，是的，个性，这是我们的下一个主题。
It's not something I you think about when you think about brand and marketing and plans and so I'm really curious to hear why I think that's important then how to figure out your own personality for your brand.
当你考虑品牌、营销和计划时，这不是我所考虑的事情，所以我真的很想知道为什么我认为这很重要，然后如何找出你自己的品牌个性。
Arielle Jackson: So I think personality is one of those inputs that will help define your visual design and it will definitely help define your written copy.
Arielle Jackson：所以我认为个性是有助于定义你的视觉设计的输入之一，它肯定有助于定义你的书面文案。
And it really comes from this idea of brands are like people.
它确实源于品牌就像人一样的理念。
And if you start thinking of your brand more like a person, it's quite obvious that it needs a personality, because all people have personalities.
如果你开始将你的品牌视为一个人，那么很明显它需要个性，因为所有人都有个性。
And these days, especially when brands show up in places where people show up, like TikTok and Instagram, your brand certainly needs a personality or else you end up like ADP trying to be fun for the summer, which just feels really off and weird.
如今，尤其是当品牌出现在人们经常出现的地方时，比如 TikTok 和 Instagram，你的品牌肯定需要个性，否则你最终会像 ADP 一样试图在夏天变得有趣，这感觉真的很不舒服和奇怪。
So personality is one of those things that it's actually the easiest part.
所以个性是其中之一，它实际上是最简单的部分。
I think it's the fastest part.
我认为这是最快的部分。
It often ends up an hour and you can get it done.
通常一个小时就可以完成。
But I have some frameworks I like to use that really just get at are you Mountain Dew or are you Rolex or are you somewhere in between?
但我有一些我喜欢使用的框架，它们真的只是了解你是激浪还是劳力士还是介于两者之间？
Arielle Jackson: And when you think about brands that have a lot of equity, they really do have a personality.
Arielle Jackson：当你想到拥有大量资产的品牌时，他们确实有个性。
I often talk about Mountain Dew marketing as that marketing that's like trying really hard to be cool and rugged and edgy and fast and kind of teen and Rolex, it's very like Gray Poupon, oh, roll down your window and do you have any Gray Poupon, it's fancy and sophisticated and a little bit aspirational and maybe even a little British.
我经常谈论激浪营销，因为这种营销就像非常努力地变得酷、粗犷、前卫、快速、青少年和劳力士，它非常像灰色优惠券，哦，摇下你的车窗，你有灰色优惠券吗，它很奇特、精致，有点令人向往，甚至可能有点英国式。
And those two things are really, really, really different.
这两件事真的非常非常不同。
And there's a lot in the middle and not everyone's going to be a Mountain Dew or Rolex, but where are you?
中间有很多东西，并不是每个人都会成为激浪或劳力士，但你在哪里？
And so you can just write it down.
所以你可以把它写下来。
I think a lot of these answers come back to like, if you are good with just opening a blank Google doc and like writing down who you are by all means, go for it.
我认为这些答案中的很多都归结为，如果你擅长打开一个空白的谷歌文档并且喜欢无论如何写下你是谁，那就去做吧。
Arielle Jackson: And if that feels daunting and hard for you, use a framework.
Arielle Jackson：如果这对您来说令人畏惧和困难，请使用框架。
And the framework that I like to use has two parts.
我喜欢使用的框架有两个部分。
The first part is based on some academic research by Jennifer Aker and it basically analyzed the top brands in the world and figured out that all brands can be segmented into five dimensions of brand personality.
第一部分基于Jennifer Aker的一些学术研究，对世界顶级品牌进行了基本分析，并得出所有品牌都可以细分为品牌个性的五个维度。
And that really strong brand spike in two of the five.
这个真正强大的品牌在五个中的两个中飙升。
So the five dimensions that she found were sincerity, so this is like, is it down to earth and honest, excitement, it's spirited, this is a Mountain Dew thing, competence, reliable and intelligent, sophisticated, sophistication, which is a charming and upper class and rugged outdoorsy and tough.
所以她找到的五个维度就是真诚，所以这个就像是，是不是脚踏实地、诚实、兴奋、有精神，这是激浪的东西，有能力、有可靠、有智慧、有世故、有世故，有迷人、上流、粗犷、户外、坚韧。
So sincerity, excitement, competence, sophistication, and ruggedness.
因此，真诚、兴奋、能力、成熟和坚固。
And going back to those two brands we just discussed Mountain Dew is rugged and exciting, Rolex is sophisticated and competent and you can do this with any brand who admire or just think about brands you like and kind of deduce them to their two of those five.
回到我们刚才讨论的这两个品牌，激浪是坚固而令人兴奋的，劳力士是复杂的和有能力的，你可以与任何欣赏或只是考虑你喜欢的品牌的品牌做到这一点，并将它们推断为这五个品牌中的两个。
Arielle Jackson: So that's the first step.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：这是第一步。
Which two of those five are you going to spike in?
您要加入这五个中的哪两个？
And it turns out a lot of tech companies end up spiking in sincerity and competence just usually does happen that way.
事实证明，许多科技公司的诚意和能力通常都会以这种方式实现。
Amazon is sincere and competent.
亚马逊是真诚且有能力的。
Google is sincere and competent.
谷歌是真诚且有能力的。
Apple is not, Apple has a little more of that sophistication to it.
苹果则不然，苹果的复杂程度要高一些。
But in any case, if you just did that, we would end in a world where everyone's sincere and competent or maybe sophisticated and competent.
但无论如何，如果你这么做了，我们就会进入一个每个人都真诚、有能力，或者也许是老练、有能力的世界。
It's like a really boring world.
这就像一个非常无聊的世界。
So the next step after you do that is to define five attributes, five brand personalities, thinking about those two dimensions.
因此，完成此操作后的下一步是定义五个属性、五个品牌个性，并考虑这两个维度。
I like to think about this as a star, five point star and brands need tension to be interesting.
我喜欢将其视为明星、五星级品牌，而品牌需要张力才能变得有趣。
So if you tell me we're helpful, we're nice, we're approachable, we're competent, and we're reliable.
所以如果你告诉我我们乐于助人、我们友善、我们平易近人、我们有能力、我们可靠。
Arielle Jackson: You basically haven't told me anything because you just use three words to say one thing and two words to say another thing.
Arielle Jackson：你基本上什么也没告诉我，因为你只是用三个词说一件事，用两个词说另一件事。
Whereas if you tell me, oh, well we're really savvy, but we're also really approachable.
然而，如果你告诉我，哦，我们真的很精明，但我们也很平易近人。
That's kind of cool.
这有点酷。
Because people who are expert are always approachable.
因为专家总是平易近人的。
They have to have a little tension and then you want to write them as statements that say we are X, but not Y, where Y is taking X too far.
他们必须有一点紧张，然后你想把它们写成声明，说我们是 X，但不是 Y，其中 Y 使 X 走得太远了。
So in the example Google is playful but not silly, so they would say we are playful, but not silly, or maybe Mountain Dew would say we are daring, but not stupid.
所以在这个例子中，谷歌很有趣，但并不愚蠢，所以他们会说我们很有趣，但不愚蠢，或者也许激浪会说我们很大胆，但不愚蠢。
So taking that attribute a little too far.
所以这个属性有点太过分了。
And so yeah, then you end up with these five statements that are we are X, but not Y.
是的，那么你最终会得到这五个陈述：我们是 X，但不是 Y。
And those are really useful in informing how you write and maybe even what your visual design would look like, and certainly what your illustration style photography style ad copy will be like.
这些对于告诉你如何写作，甚至你的视觉设计会是什么样子，当然还有你的插画风格摄影风格广告文案会是什么样子非常有用。
Lenny: Once you've gone through that exercise and in maybe the other two pieces, where do you put this?
莱尼：一旦你完成了这个练习，也许还有另外两部分，你会把它放在哪里？
Is this just like in a doc that's like here's our brand overview, here's our personality, here's our positioning, here's our purpose.
这就像在文档中一样吗？这是我们的品牌概述，这是我们的个性，这是我们的定位，这是我们的目的。
And then you refer back to that whenever you're designing and putting together strategies?
然后每当你设计和制定策略时你都会回顾这一点？
Is that how it works?
是这样的吗？
Arielle Jackson: Yeah, you could do it that way.
Arielle Jackson：是的，你可以这样做。
That's definitely one way of doing it.
这绝对是一种方法。
That's a good start.
这是一个好的开始。
I think that one other place where it shows up, like we talked about that visual style guide that everyone has, that they give to an agency or copywriter who's writing on their behalf.
我认为它出现的另一个地方，就像我们谈到的每个人都有的视觉风格指南，他们提供给代表他们写作的机构或文案。
I think these should all be inputs into that doc that you end up sharing.
我认为这些都应该是您最终共享的文档的输入。
I think it should go into any onboarding you do for new employees so that they understand who the company is.
我认为它应该体现在你为新员工所做的任何入职培训中，以便他们了解公司是谁。
Any partners that you're marketing with, co-branding, all of that, it should really be think of it as your little brand Bible about who you are.
任何与你一起营销、联合品牌等的合作伙伴，都应该将其视为关于你是谁的小品牌圣经。
And also it should be revisited when you're doing, let's say a new product or to make sure does this need to be updated or does this new product need to fit into who we are?
当你做一个新产品时，也应该重新审视它，或者确保它是否需要更新，或者这个新产品是否需要适应我们的定位？
Lenny: What do you call this document/place?
莱尼：你怎么称呼这个文件/地方？
Arielle Jackson: When I take all those three components and then add a bunch of other stuff, I call it a creative brief, which is the thing you would hand to an agency or a writer who's writing on your behalf.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：当我把这三个部分都考虑进去，然后添加一堆其他东西时，我称之为创意简报，这是你交给代理机构或代表你写作的作家的东西。
It would include some other things too, that we didn't talk about, like creative inspiration direction.
它还包括一些我们没有谈论的其他事情，比如创意灵感方向。
So picking visual clips and written clips and all these things that you like and that you don't like, so you can show both positive examples and counter examples to the thing you're looking for.
因此，选择视觉剪辑和书面剪辑以及所有这些你喜欢和不喜欢的东西，这样你就可以展示你正在寻找的东西的正面例子和反例。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
Thank you for all of that.
谢谢你所做的一切。
There's so much juice there.
那里有很多果汁。
I think people are going to have to listen to this a couple times to get all the learnings.
我认为人们必须听几次才能获得所有的教训。
Before I let you go, there's two other areas I wanted to dive into.
在我让你走之前，我想深入研究另外两个领域。
But I'll keep them brief because I know we're going long.
但我会保持简短，因为我知道我们会讲得很长。
One is about getting PR and just a question I wanted to ask you while I had you, founders and even bigger companies, they're always like, how do I get PR?
其中一个是关于获得公关，这只是我在与您会面时想问您的一个问题，创始人甚至更大的公司，他们总是会问，我如何获得公关？
How do I get press for my product, even though it's sometimes a waste of time.
我如何让我的产品获得媒体报道，尽管这有时是浪费时间。
Do you have just any tactical advice for startups hoping to get some PR?
对于希望获得一些公关的初创公司，您有什么战术建议吗？
Arielle Jackson: You mean initial coverage around a launch or ongoing?
Arielle Jackson：你的意思是关于发布的初步报道还是正在进行的报道？
Lenny: I'd say early on, yeah, before the launch.
莱尼：我很早就说过，是的，在发布之前。
Arielle Jackson: Sure.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：当然。
So the first one is to get your story straight.
所以第一个就是把你的故事讲清楚。
So, so many times I have founders come to me and they're like, hey, we need help with this announcement.
所以，很多次创始人来找我，他们都会说，嘿，我们需要帮助来发布这个消息。
I'm like, cool.
I'm like, cool.
What's the announcement?
What's the announcement?
And back to the 30 minutes until I understand what the company is, so if you can't describe it to me in a sentence, your reporter is certainly not going to understand in a sentence and they won't be able to describe it to their audience in a sentence.
回到30分钟，直到我了解这家公司是什么，所以如果你不能用一句话向我描述它，你的记者肯定不会用一句话来理解它，他们也无法用一句话向观众描述它。
And so really getting your story straight, all the stuff we talked about specifically around product positioning is so key.
因此，真正讲清楚你的故事，我们专门讨论的围绕产品定位的所有内容都非常关键。
Almost always when someone comes to me and says, I'm ready to announce, we go back to positioning first.
几乎总是当有人来找我说，我准备好宣布时，我们首先回到定位。
Also make sure that your website is ready for the traffic you're going to drive to it, that you're not driving traffic to a name that you're going to later scrap.
还要确保您的网站已准备好迎接您要吸引的流量，并且您不会将流量吸引到稍后要废弃的名称。
Arielle Jackson: Are you really ready for this?
阿莉尔·杰克逊：你真的准备好了吗？
So go back to all the other things we discussed first and then having realistic expectations about the outlets that will cover you and the time it will take to get them.
因此，回到我们首先讨论的所有其他事情，然后对覆盖您的渠道以及获得它们所需的时间抱有现实的期望。
So a lot of people will be like, I'm launching next week.
所以很多人会说，我下周就要推出了。
And it's like, well, cool that you're doing that, but no reporters going to cover you next week.
就像，好吧，你这样做很酷，但下周没有记者会报道你。
It just doesn't work like that anymore.
它只是不再那样工作了。
Five years ago, eight years ago, founders could really dictate the date of a launch announcement, they could brief three to five outlets under embargo, which means like you all can't tell our secret news until we tell you at this time you can publish.
五年前，八年前，创始人确实可以决定发布公告的日期，他们可以在禁运的情况下向三到五个媒体通报情况，这意味着你们都不能告诉我们的秘密消息，直到我们告诉你们这个时候你们可以发布。
And at that time, three of the five would all file a story and write, and it just doesn't work like that anymore.
那时，五个人中的三个人都会归档一个故事并写作，但现在已经不再这样了。
These days for early stage startups, we're almost always running the launch announcement as an exclusive, which means you give the news to a single outlet.
如今，对于处于早期阶段的初创公司来说，我们几乎总是以独家方式发布发布公告，这意味着您将新闻发布给单一渠道。
Arielle Jackson: And they're the only ones who get to write about it.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：他们是唯一能写下这件事的人。
You can obviously still do all your owned and operated stuff, your blog, your social, your investors, your friends and family, but they're the only like news outlet who gets to write about it.
显然，你仍然可以做所有你拥有和经营的事情，你的博客，你的社交，你的投资者，你的朋友和家人，但他们是唯一像新闻媒体一样可以写这件事的人。
So having an expectation that this is probably going to be an exclusive, it's harder than ever to secure funding for a seed stage company and funding in and of itself is not that interesting anymore.
因此，如果期望这可能是独家的，那么为种子阶段公司获得资金比以往任何时候都更加困难，而且资金本身也不再那么有趣了。
There's so many bad companies getting funding.
有很多糟糕的公司获得融资。
There's so many good companies getting funding too just more than ever.
有这么多优秀的公司比以往任何时候都获得更多的资金。
And the number of reporters and the number of outlets that are covering it is just less than it used to be.
报道此事的记者数量和媒体数量也比以前少了。
So really just thinking about like, well, who writes about this space?
所以真的只是想，谁写了这个空间？
Do they write about company's at my stage?
他们在我这个阶段写关于公司的文章吗？
Arielle Jackson: That's another really big one is, hey, we want the New York Times.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：另一个非常重要的问题是，嘿，我们想要《纽约时报》。
It's like, cool, no one's at the New York Times has ever covered a seed stage startup unless it's crazy for the last five years.
就像，很酷，纽约时报没有人报道过种子阶段的初创公司，除非它在过去五年里很疯狂。
Who do you think is going to write about you?
你认为谁会写关于你的事？
But there are still outlets that do.
但仍然有一些商店这样做。
The other one is don't do a straight funding announcement.
另一个是不要直接发布融资公告。
A lot of founders raise money and they're like, cool, let's announce.
很多创始人筹集资金后他们都会说，酷，让我们宣布吧。
It's like, no, we'll use that funding announcement as a news hook to tell a larger story and a larger story might be your products available.
就像，不，我们将使用该融资公告作为新闻挂钩来讲述一个更大的故事，而更大的故事可能是您可用的产品。
You have reference customers, you have momentum, you have some great partnership that you're announcing.
你有参考客户，你有动力，你有一些你宣布的伟大的合作伙伴关系。
There's something else going on, not just your funding and using your funding as part of that initial launch is great, but what else are you announcing?
还有其他事情正在发生，不仅仅是您的资金，并且将您的资金用作初始发布的一部分很棒，但是您还宣布了什么？
Arielle Jackson: The last thing is really about making what you do interesting and relevant so that it's not just interesting and relevant to you and the three other people who worked there at the time, but interesting to all the readers of whatever outlet you're trying to target.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：最后一件事实际上是让你所做的事情变得有趣和相关，这样它不仅对你和当时在那里工作的其他三个人来说有趣和相关，而且对你想要瞄准的任何媒体的所有读者都感兴趣。
And so an example of that is I worked on this company, Vitable Health and the founder, Joseph, he created a product for hourly workers that their employer would buy and it costs like $50 per person per month.
举个例子，我在 Vitable Health 公司工作，创始人 Joseph，他为小时工开发了一款产品，他们的雇主会购买该产品，每人每月花费 50 美元。
And what it does is it provides urgent care and primary care.
它的作用是提供紧急护理和初级护理。
So these hourly workers who make too much to qualify for Medicaid and too little to pay their health insurance premiums, and so primary and urgent care for hourly workers.
因此，这些小时工的收入太多，无法获得医疗补助，但又太少，无法支付健康保险费，因此为小时工提供初级和紧急护理。
And we tied it into this idea of the great resignation and small businesses not being able to hire hourly workers, which was like a big trend end of 2021, and the company operates in Philadelphia and Delaware, and we were actually able to get him the Sunday after Christmas, Philadelphia Inquirer story.
我们将其与大辞职和小企业无法雇用小时工的想法联系起来，这就像 2021 年底的一个大趋势，公司在费城和特拉华州运营，我们实际上能够在圣诞节后的周日找到他，《费城问询报》的报道。
Arielle Jackson: But it was all about making this daycare and this restaurant in Philadelphia into heroes because they offered this cool benefit to their hourly workers.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：但这一切都是为了让费城的这家日托中心和这家餐厅成为英雄，因为他们为小时工提供了这种很酷的福利。
And so the headline was perfect for them, but it wasn't like here's Vitable and here's what they announced and here's, it was like, hey, look at this cool new thing that local businesses are doing to attract hourly workers.
所以这个标题对他们来说是完美的，但它不像 Vitable，这是他们宣布的，这是，嘿，看看当地企业正在做的这个很酷的新事情，以吸引小时工。
And so think about your company in a way to make it interesting and relevant and don't sleep on local preps.
因此，请以一种使其有趣且具有相关性的方式来思考您的公司，而不要只关注当地的准备工作。
Arielle Jackson: If you have a local business or a local story or local customers, this was a huge thing at Square.
Arielle Jackson：如果你有本地企业、本地故事或本地客户，这对 Square 来说是一件大事。
We turned all of our customers into heroes and went after local press.
我们把所有的顾客都变成了英雄，并追随当地媒体。
Most PR firms that service the tech community aren't experts in local press, but if you have a way to make some connections with some local press, they are the ones hungry for these stories more than the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal.
大多数为科技界提供服务的公关公司都不是当地媒体的专家，但如果你有办法与一些当地媒体建立联系，他们比《纽约时报》和《华尔街日报》更渴望这些故事。
Lenny: What a good tip and most likely they're much more open to writing about you versus New York Times or Wall Street Journal.
莱尼：这是一个很好的建议，而且与《纽约时报》或《华尔街日报》相比，他们很可能更愿意撰写有关您的文章。
Cool.
凉爽的。
Okay.
好的。
So I want to ask you one question about hiring marketing real quick and I'll keep it short just because I know we're going to run out of time.
所以我想快速问你一个关于招聘营销人员的问题，我会简短地问你一个问题，因为我知道我们的时间不多了。
When should a startup hire a full-time marketing person in your experience?
根据您的经验，初创公司什么时候应该聘请全职营销人员？
Arielle Jackson: When you have a lot of problems that you're trying to solve that would be better solved by someone who knew what they're doing, or when you have a bunch of freelancers and agencies that are becoming too hard to manage by yourself.
Arielle Jackson：当你有很多问题需要解决时，如果由知道自己在做什么的人来解决会更好，或者当你有一群自由职业者和代理机构变得很难自己管理时。
Lenny: When do you find that usually ends up being...
莱尼：你什么时候发现通常会变成……
Is there kind of a heuristic-
有没有一种启发式-
Arielle Jackson: Yeah.
阿丽尔·杰克逊：是的。
Ballpark, it kind of depends if you're a marketing driven business or a sales driven business.
大概，这取决于您是营销驱动型企业还是销售驱动型企业。
So if you're a sales driven business and you don't have a repeatable sales motion, it's not yet time to hire a marketer, get that repeatable sales motion, and marketing's job is to bring you more marketing qualified leads.
因此，如果您是一家销售驱动型企业，并且没有可重复的销售动议，那么现在还不是聘请营销人员、获得可重复的销售动议的时候，而营销的工作就是为您带来更多营销合格的销售线索。
So that's one, so that kind of depends.
这就是其中之一，所以这取决于情况。
If you're a marketing driven business, it generally seems to me like it happens around 10 people, the founders doing most of this themselves, they're not doing the best job usually or they've hired agency here, a freelancer there to kind of cobble some stuff together.
如果你是一个营销驱动的企业，在我看来，这种情况通常发生在 10 个人左右，创始人自己做大部分工作，他们通常做得不是最好，或者他们在这里雇佣了代理机构，在那里雇佣了一个自由职业者来拼凑一些东西。
And they now realize like, okay, if I had a person who would be able to do all of this and manage these agencies and freelancers, this would be a lot better.
他们现在意识到，好吧，如果我有一个人能够完成所有这些工作并管理这些机构和自由职业者，那就会好得多。
Arielle Jackson: It also is do you have a one point in time project?
Arielle Jackson：您是否有一个单点项目？
Do you need to do positioning?
需要做定位吗？
Do you need a website?
Do you need a website?
Do you need a name?
Do you need a name?
Do you need to run a test of Google ads?
您需要对 Google 广告进行测试吗？
Those things are all discreet when it becomes this is ongoing work that needs to happen over time.
当这是一项需要随着时间的推移进行的持续工作时，这些事情都是谨慎的。
It's better to think about hiring a marketer and really what kind of marketer do you need?
最好考虑雇用一名营销人员，您真正需要什么样的营销人员？
Do you need a product marketer, a performance marketer, a comms person, a creative person?
您需要产品营销人员、绩效营销人员、沟通人员、创意人员吗？
Ideally everyone wants all of that.
理想情况下，每个人都想要这一切。
But I kind of like that idea of a T-shaped marketer who's really deep on one of those functions, but knows enough to be dangerous across all of them.
但我有点喜欢 T 型营销人员的想法，他对其中一项职能非常深入，但对所有职能的了解足以构成危险。
Lenny: I think we're going to need another episode just about that one topic.
莱尼：我想我们需要再看一集关于这个主题的内容。
I have so many questions I want to ask, but I need to let you go.
我有很多问题想问，但我需要让你走。
That'll be V2.
That'll be V2.
Before we do that, we've gotten to the very exciting lightning round where I'm just going to ask you quick questions and you just give me a quick answer and we will knock through them all.
在我们这样做之前，我们已经进入了非常令人兴奋的闪电回合，我将简单地问你几个问题，你只需给我一个快速的答案，我们就会解决所有问题。
Does that sound good?
听起来不错吗？
Lenny: What are two or three books that you recommend most to other people?
莱尼：您最向其他人推荐的两三本书是什么？
Arielle Jackson: In marketing land, definitely the book called Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind.
阿莉尔·杰克逊（Arielle Jackson）：在营销领域，肯定有一本叫做《定位：你的思想之战》的书。
It's from 1980, it's still my favorite marketing book.
这是 1980 年的书，至今仍然是我最喜欢的营销书籍。
Another recent marketing book is Alchemy by Rory Sutherland.
最近的另一本营销书籍是罗里·萨瑟兰 (Rory Sutherland) 所著的《炼金术》(Alchemy)。
It's like my favorite area of reading is behavioral science, psychology meets business.
就像我最喜欢的阅读领域是行为科学、心理学与商业的结合。
And that's in there.
And that's in there.
For fiction, I just read The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett.
对于小说，我刚刚读了布里特·贝内特的《消失的一半》。
It was awesome.
太棒了。
I then read her other book called The Mothers, but I think The Vanishing Half's better.
然后我读了她的另一本书《母亲》，但我认为《消失的一半》更好。
Lenny: Awesome.
莱尼：太棒了。
I will check that out.
我会检查一下。
What's a favorite podcast or even newsletter on marketing?
最喜欢的播客或营销通讯是什么？
Arielle Jackson: I love Nick Sharma's weekly newsletter.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我喜欢尼克·夏尔马的每周时事通讯。
He's a growth marketer.
He's a growth marketer.
He started his career I think at water.
我认为他的职业生涯始于水。
So he does a lot of CPG type DTC.
所以他做了很多CPG类型的DTC。
He has a great marketing newsletter that comes out every Sunday night.
他每周日晚上都会发布一份很棒的营销通讯。
On podcasts, I love How I Built This.
在播客上，我喜欢我是如何构建这个的。
I know that's already really popular, but I love that one.
我知道这已经很流行了，但我喜欢那个。
It's not really marketing, but just general business.
这并不是真正的营销，而只是一般业务。
The First Round podcast in depth is pretty great.
第一轮深度播客非常棒。
Lenny's podcast I've been listening to is awesome.
我一直在听的莱尼的播客非常棒。
And then my friend Jasmine from The Concept Bureau has a marketing podcast called Unseen, Unknown.
然后，我来自 The Concept Bureau 的朋友 Jasmine 有一个名为 Unseen, Unknown 的营销播客。
And it's kind of about culture and branding and how these things and society and trends.
这与文化和品牌以及这些事物如何与社会和趋势有关。
It's not like straight marketing.
这不像直接营销。
It's kind of more of the culture and sociology that informs marketing.
更多的是为营销提供信息的文化和社会学。
Lenny: Wow.
莱尼：哇。
That is a lot of good stuff.
这是很多好东西。
What's a recent movie or TV show that you've loved?
您最近喜欢的电影或电视节目是什么？
Arielle Jackson: This is more embarrassing.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：这更尴尬。
How many movies have you seen in the last year?
去年你看了多少部电影？
Just curious.
只是好奇。
Lenny: Me?
莱尼：我？
A lot, on streaming services.
很多，在流媒体服务上。
Way too many also, if that's where you're going or have you seen none?
也太多了，如果那是你要去的地方或者你没有看到过？
Arielle Jackson: Well, I've seen maybe four and they're probably all on Disney+.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：嗯，我大概看过四个，它们可能都在迪士尼+上。
Lenny: You're winning.
莱尼：你赢了。
That's excellent.
那太好了。
Arielle Jackson: I would say I really like some of those Disney Pixar movies, Luca, Encanto.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我想说我真的很喜欢迪士尼·皮克斯的一些电影，《卢卡》、《Encanto》。
Those are all really great.
这些都非常棒。
I mostly only watch movies with my kids, but I'm pretty excited.
我大多只和孩子们一起看电影，但我很兴奋。
I had a celebrity crush on Anthony Bourdain and I'm excited to watch his new documentary if I ever get around to it.
我很喜欢安东尼·波登（Anthony Bourdain）的名人，如果我有时间的话，我很高兴能观看他的新纪录片。
And TV shows I'm equally bad.
电视节目我也同样糟糕。
Arielle Jackson: And there's this little Netflix show called Old Enough.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：Netflix 有一个小节目，名叫《Old Enough》。
It's a Japanese show with subtitles about sending toddlers on errands in Japan.
这是一个日本节目，字幕是关于送幼儿去日本办事的。
They like go by themselves.
他们喜欢自己走。
It's 10 minutes.
10 分钟了。
They're awesome.
他们太棒了。
My whole family watched them together.
我全家人一起看着他们。
It's really cute.
真的很可爱。
Lenny: Old Enough.
莱尼：够老了。
I'm going to check that out.
我要去检查一下。
Okay.
好的。
Two more questions.
还有两个问题。
Favorite interview question when hiring a marketing person?
招聘营销人员时最喜欢的面试问题？
Arielle Jackson: It's probably tell me a project you're proud of.
Arielle Jackson：这可能是告诉我一个你引以为傲的项目。
Tell me about a project you're proud of, is just really open-ended and get to hear a lot about a lot of things that way.
告诉我一个你引以为傲的项目，它真的是开放式的，并且可以通过这种方式听到很多事情。
And then maybe runner up is tell me about a campaign you recently come across that you were not involved with that you thought was cool.
然后，亚军可能会告诉我你最近遇到的一个你认为很酷但没有参与的活动。
Lenny: Hmm.
莱尼：嗯。
Love that.
喜欢那个。
Okay.
好的。
Final question.
最后一个问题。
Who else in the industry do you most respect as a thought leader?
作为思想领袖，您在行业中最尊敬的还有谁？
Lenny: In the marketing industry?
莱尼：在营销行业？
Yeah, sure.
是的，当然。
Arielle Jackson: I guess old school thought leaders, David Ogilvy, Rory Sutherland, Seth Godin.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：我猜是老派思想领袖，大卫·奥格维、罗里·萨瑟兰、塞斯·戈丁。
New school thought leaders, we mentioned Nick Sharma.
新学派的思想领袖，我们提到了尼克·夏尔马。
There's a woman named...
有一个女人，名叫...
I'm probably going to butcher her name, Anna Andjelic.
我可能会毁掉她的名字，Anna Andjelic。
She has a newsletter that I didn't mention before.
她有一份我之前没有提到过的时事通讯。
It's called the Sociology of Business.
这就是所谓的商业社会学。
That's really good.
那真是太好了。
She's a CMO, chief brand officer type.
她是CMO，首席品牌官类型。
She kind of turned around Banana Republic recently, which was cool.
她最近扭转了香蕉共和国的局面，这很酷。
Emily Hayward from Red Antler.
红鹿角的艾米丽·海沃德。
I also really like Ross.
我也很喜欢罗斯。
I don't know this guy, but Ross Simmons from Foundation, which is a content marketing agency.
我不认识这个人，但我认识来自 Foundation 的 Ross Simmons，这是一家内容营销机构。
I'm not a content marketing expert, but he really is.
我不是内容营销专家，但他确实是。
And I think he puts out some good content.
我认为他发布了一些很好的内容。
Lenny: Man, these show notes are going to be a long list of great stuff.
莱尼：伙计，这些演出笔记将是一长串很棒的东西。
Arielle, thank you so much for being here.
阿丽尔，非常感谢你来到这里。
There's just so much jampacked knowledge.
知识实在是太多了。
I don't know if people were prepared when they started listening to this and so congrats on making it through and I hope you're probably going to go back and listen again and again.
我不知道人们在开始听这首歌时是否做好了准备，所以恭喜你听完了，我希望你可能会回去一遍又一遍地听。
And so again, Arielle, thank you so much for doing this.
再次，Arielle，非常感谢你所做的一切。
Two last questions.
最后两个问题。
Where can folks find you online if they want to reach out or ask questions and how can listeners be useful to you?
如果人们想要联系或提出问题，可以在哪里找到您？听众如何对您有用？
Arielle Jackson: Sure I'm on Twitter and LinkedIn.
Arielle Jackson：当然，我在 Twitter 和 LinkedIn 上。
Twitter, I'm hiimarielle.
推特，我是 hiimarielle。
And if you're interested in this stuff, but feeling overwhelmed, I will plug my Maven course.
如果您对这些东西感兴趣，但感到不知所措，我将插入我的 Maven 课程。
I teach a course on startup brand strategy that covers everything we talked about in this hour, or this is more than an hour now and kind of with a little more hand holding and feedback.
我教授一门关于初创品牌战略的课程，涵盖了我们在这一小时内讨论的所有内容，或者现在已经一个多小时了，并且有更多的指导和反馈。
So it's a crash course on all this stuff.
所以这是所有这些东西的速成班。
The four founders that takes two weeks and you go through all of this and that next cohort of that, I think we're on cohort four will be this fall.
四位创始人需要两周的时间，你会经历所有这些，而下一批，我想我们将在今年秋天进入第四批。
So you can apply for that course at maven.com/arielle/startupbrandstrategy.
因此，您可以在 maven.com/arielle/startupbrandstrategy 申请该课程。
Lenny: Amazing.
莱尼：太棒了。
And I guess that's how listeners can be useful to you.
我想这就是听众对你有用的方式。
Lenny: All right.
莱尼：好吧。
Well great.
好极了。
All right, well thank you again, thank you again and .
好的，好的，再次感谢您，再次感谢您。
Arielle Jackson: Thanks so much, Lenny.
阿莉尔·杰克逊：非常感谢，莱尼。
It was fun.
很有趣。
Lenny: Thank you so much for listening.
莱尼：非常感谢您的聆听。
If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcast、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。
Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.
另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。
You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.
您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。
See you in the next episode.
下一集见。