“I wouldn’t recommend anyone attempt Everest”: Tenzing director Jennifer Peedom on Everest queues, reclaiming lost narratives and dropping Loki into a crevasse
Tenzing foregrounds the most famous sherpa in the world in his own story for the first time.
丹增首次在自己的故事中突出了世界上最著名的夏尔巴人。
He was, director Jennifer Peedom tells us, the classic underdog
导演詹妮弗·皮多姆告诉我们，他是典型的失败者
Tenzing Norgay was half of the duo who made it to ‘the roof of the world’ when he completed a historic first ascent of Mount Everest alongside Edmund Hillary in 1953 – and by all accounts when they stepped onto the summit, they did so together.
1953 年，丹增·诺尔盖 (Tenzing Norgay) 与埃德蒙·希拉里 (Edmund Hillary) 一起历史性地首次登上珠穆朗玛峰，成为登上“世界屋脊”的二人组中的一员。据大家所知，当他们登上珠穆朗玛峰时，他们是一起登顶的。
But when the accolades were handed out, you might think he was the lesser party.
但当颁发荣誉时，你可能会认为他是次要的一方。
New Zealander Hillary received a knighthood; so too did the expedition’s leader, British Army officer John Hunt.
新西兰人希拉里获得爵士爵位；探险队的领队、英国陆军军官约翰·亨特也是如此。
But Tenzing, a man who not only made it to the summit but was the expedition’s sirdar (head sherpa) – responsible for all the logistics on the mountain that made the ascent possible – was only offered the George Medal, a civilian honour conceived to mark acts of heroism during the Blitz.
但丹增不仅成功登顶，而且还是探险队的领头人——负责山上所有后勤工作，使登顶成为可能——他只获得了乔治勋章，这是一项平民荣誉，旨在纪念闪电战期间的英雄行为。
The popular narrative that followed in the ensuing decades was that Hillary had summited Everest (referred to increasingly by one of its original names, Chomolungma ) and that Tenzing was there.
在接下来的几十年里，流行的说法是希拉里登上了珠穆朗玛峰（越来越多地用珠穆朗玛峰的原始名称之一来提及），而丹增也在那里。
It’s one of the many misconceptions surrounding the man that director Jennifer Peedom seems to hope to dispel in her first dramatic feature Tenzing .
这是导演詹妮弗·皮多姆似乎希望在她的第一部剧情片《丹增》中消除对这个男人的众多误解之一。
Peedom is no stranger to the Himalayas, having started as a camera operator on Himalayan expeditions before making films of her own – fans of mountain movies may well remember her 2015 film Sherpa , which documented the real stories from the Sherpa community in the aftermath of a 2014 avalanche on the Khumbu Icefall that caused a number of fatalities.
Peedom 对喜马拉雅山并不陌生，她在拍摄自己的电影之前，曾在喜马拉雅探险中担任摄影师。山地电影的粉丝可能还记得她 2015 年的电影《夏尔巴人》，该片记录了 2014 年昆布冰川雪崩造成多人死亡后夏尔巴人社区的真实故事。
Just as Sherpa was, Tenzing is thoughtful and reflective, aiming to foreground Norgay in his own story for the first time.
正如夏尔巴人一样，丹增深思熟虑、善于反思，旨在首次在自己的故事中突出诺尔盖的形象。
Tom Hiddleston and Willem Dafoe are the biggest names in the cast, taking on the roles of Hillary and Hunt, but its star is undoubtedly Genden Phuntsok – a Chinese actor of Tibetan descent – as Norgay.
汤姆·希德勒斯顿 (Tom Hiddleston) 和威廉·达福 (Willem Dafoe) 是演员阵容中最知名的人物，分别扮演希拉里和亨特，但其中的主角无疑是藏族血统的中国演员根登彭措 (Genden Phuntsok)，饰演诺尔盖 (Norgay)。
His casting reflects another lesser-known fact – the most famous sherpa in the world was not an ethnic Sherpa, but the son of a Tibetan yak herder who came to Nepal and later moved to Darjeeling seeking work among the expeditions.
他的选角反映了另一个鲜为人知的事实——世界上最著名的夏尔巴人并不是夏尔巴人，而是一位西藏牦牛牧民的儿子，他来到尼泊尔，后来搬到大吉岭在探险队中寻找工作。
‘Tenzing Norgay’ wasn’t even the name he was born with; that was the one given to him later.
“丹增·诺尔盖”甚至不是他出生时的名字。这是后来给他的。
Peedom’s Tenzing is the story of how a young boy looked up at the mountain revered as Chomolungma – the mother goddess – and dreamed of what it would mean to stand on what is quite literally hallowed ground.
皮多姆的《丹增》讲述了一个小男孩如何仰望被尊崇为珠穆朗玛峰（母亲女神）的山峰，并梦想着站在这片名副其实的圣地上意味着什么。
We caught up with the director for an exclusive interview after the film’s London premiere to find out more.
影片伦敦首映后，我们对导演进行了独家采访，以了解更多信息。
The 1953 ascent of Everest is such a well-known narrative, but often one dominated by the idea of heroic European conquest, and I wondered what you want to reveal about this story by focusing it through Tenzing’s perspective?
1953 年珠穆朗玛峰的攀登是一个众所周知的故事，但它往往以欧洲英雄征服的理念为主导，我想知道你想通过丹增的视角来揭示这个故事的什么内容？
Jennifer Peedom: I spent a lot of my early career working as a camera operator and a documentary filmmaker in the Himalayas, and for me what was always interesting and part of the attraction of the place was the culture and the Sherpa people.
詹妮弗·皮多姆（Jennifer Peedom）：我早期职业生涯的大部分时间都在喜马拉雅山担任摄影师和纪录片制片人，对我来说，这个地方的文化和夏尔巴人一直很有趣，也是这个地方吸引力的一部分。
One of my earliest films about the Sherpas [ Sherpa , 2015] was because I was really interested in this idea that mountaineering for them is a job, but Chomolungma is a deity that they worship, and that the landscape means something spiritual and very different to what it means to western climbers who come and climb the mountain.
我最早关于夏尔巴人的电影之一[夏尔巴人，2015]是因为我对这个想法非常感兴趣，即登山对他们来说是一项工作，但珠穆朗玛峰是他们崇拜的神灵，而景观意味着某种精神上的东西，与前来登山的西方登山者的意义截然不同。
I wanted audiences to see that point of view.
我希望观众能够看到这个观点。
I’ve heard you say of Sherpa that you “weren’t making a climbing film, you were making a story about a people”.
我听你谈到夏尔巴人时说，你“不是在制作一部攀岩电影，而是在制作一个关于一个民族的故事”。
Tenzing feels like it’s doing a bit of both?
丹增感觉两者兼而有之？
The reason I wanted to make this film about Tenzing was first to redress that historical balance, because he’d never really been at the centre.
我想制作这部关于丹增的电影的原因首先是为了纠正这种历史平衡，因为他从来没有真正处于中心地位。
He was more of a supporting character in the story.
他在故事中更多的是一个配角。
But it was also [about] everything that Tenzing had been through in his life just to get to the starting line of Everest, let alone ascend the mountain.
但这也是丹增一生中为了到达珠穆朗玛峰起跑线而经历的一切，更不用说登上这座山峰了。
That story to me was fascinating – the sheer number of obstacles he had to overcome just to get to that place.
这个故事对我来说很有趣——为了到达那个地方，他必须克服大量的障碍。
He’d been through so much in his life.
他一生经历了太多。
He’d been exiled from Tibet to Nepal as a young boy.
他小时候就被从西藏流放到尼泊尔。
His family had had to leave [him] while they were looking for work just to survive.
当他的家人为了生存而寻找工作时，他们不得不离开[他]。
He was an outsider in that community – the classic underdog in many ways.
他是那个社区的局外人——在很多方面都是典型的失败者。
He was underestimated his entire life.
他的一生都被低估了。
It was about that as much as anything else, about showing the family the cultural sacrifices that he had to make along the way to fulfil this childhood dream.
这与其他事情一样，都是为了向家人展示他为了实现这个童年梦想而必须做出的文化牺牲。
I was really taken with the character that Caitríona Balfe plays, Jill Henderson.
我真的很喜欢凯特里奥娜·巴尔夫扮演的吉尔·亨德森这个角色。
She is such a big part of the British mountaineering story overall in Nepal, but also a big part of Tenzing’s story as well.
她是英国尼泊尔登山故事的重要组成部分，也是丹增故事的重要组成部分。
It was really she that convinced him to take on the [British 1953] expedition.
确实是她说服了他参加[英国1953]探险活动。
He genuinely had hesitations.
他确实有过犹豫。
He had an extreme loyalty to the Swiss, who he’d climbed with the year before, and they had tried and failed.
他对瑞士人极其忠诚，前一年他曾与瑞士人一起攀登，他们尝试过但失败了。
He was depleted.
他已经筋疲力尽了。
He was exhausted.
他已经筋疲力尽了。
He’d promised his family he wasn’t going to go back again, and then this invitation came.
他向家人保证他不会再回去了，然后这个邀请就来了。
It was Henderson and Raymond Lambert [the Swiss mountaineer with whom Tenzing had climbed to within 237 metres of the summit in 1952] who colluded to convince Tenzing to go, because they knew that this was probably going to be the one.
亨德森和雷蒙德·兰伯特（Raymond Lambert）（1952 年与丹增一起登上顶峰不到 237 米的瑞士登山家）合谋说服丹增前往，因为他们知道这很可能就是那个人。
They knew that this was his moment and that he deserved it more than anyone else.
他们知道这是属于他的时刻，他比任何人都更值得拥有这个时刻。
Lambert wrote him a letter.
兰伯特给他写了一封信。
Henderson campaigned to him endlessly until he eventually agreed to go.
亨德森不断地向他竞选，直到他最终同意去。
And I just felt like, what an amazing woman, who had such a remarkable part in history that had also never been talked about in the traditional narratives of the telling of Everest, yet she played such a significant role.
我只是觉得，这是一位多么了不起的女性，她在历史上扮演了如此非凡的角色，在珠穆朗玛峰的传统叙述中也从未被提及过，但她却扮演了如此重要的角色。
There’s an ongoing conversation right now as to the state of climbing on Mount Everest, and we’ve all seen these mind-boggling photos of the queues.
现在关于珠穆朗玛峰攀登状况的讨论正在进行中，我们都看过这些令人难以置信的排队照片。
What are your thoughts on the responsibilities we have as storytellers when we’re discussing a mountain that represents a peak of human endeavour, but also is a place of spirituality?
当我们讨论一座代表人类努力的顶峰、同时也是灵性之地的山时，您对我们作为讲故事者的责任有何看法？
For whatever reason, Everest has become this symbol of human achievement, and it’s become a bucket list ambition.
不管出于什么原因，珠穆朗玛峰已经成为人类成就的象征，它也成为了一个愿望清单上的野心。
It attracts people, and no matter what happens on Everest, the worse the disasters, the more people seem to come the next year to test themselves.
它吸引着人们，无论珠穆朗玛峰上发生什么，灾难越严重，明年似乎会有越多的人来测试自己。
And I think that says something about western culture in some ways, and I find it interesting, though I don’t really understand it myself.
我认为这在某种程度上说明了西方文化，我觉得很有趣，尽管我自己并不真正理解它。
It’s like a proving ground.
这就像一个试验场。
And I would suggest that there are other ways to do that than to come to Everest and add to the traffic jam that is that mountain these days.
我建议还有其他方法可以做到这一点，而不是去珠穆朗玛峰并增加这些天这座山的交通堵塞。
I would not recommend anyone attempt to go there and climb, really, because it is dangerous due to the crowds.
我真的不建议任何人尝试去那里攀爬，因为人群拥挤，很危险。
There are better ways to achieve a dream than standing in a line to put your foot on the summit of the highest mountain in the world.
有比排队登上世界最高峰更好的方法来实现梦想。
That difficulty of climbing a mountain like Everest was really evident in Tenzing : the laboured breathing and heavy steps were so evocative.
攀登珠穆朗玛峰这样的山峰的难度在丹增身上体现得淋漓尽致：吃力的呼吸和沉重的脚步令人回味无穷。
How important was it to give a sense that this isn’t a walk in the park?
给人一种这不是在公园散步的感觉有多重要？
Really important, and it’s a very difficult thing to portray in cinema because it’s a feeling.
真的很重要，而且在电影中描绘它是一件非常困难的事情，因为它是一种感觉。
Someone described it to me once as running on a treadmill and breathing through a straw.
有人向我描述过这就像在跑步机上跑步并通过吸管呼吸一样。
You just can’t get enough oxygen into your lungs, and so your legs are burning.
你的肺部无法获得足够的氧气，因此你的双腿会感到灼痛。
You’re sort of taking a step and then having about three breaths and then finding the strength to take another step.
你就像迈出一步，然后呼吸大约三次，然后找到力量再迈出一步。
It’s enormously challenging and the higher you get, the worse that gets.
这是巨大的挑战，你爬得越高，情况就越糟糕。
Trying to portray that is difficult, but I’m glad you picked up on the breath.
试图描绘这一点很困难，但我很高兴你能恢复呼吸。
We spent a lot of time with sound design working with breath because that’s the thing keeping you alive.
我们花了很多时间进行与呼吸相关的声音设计，因为这是让你活着的东西。
On the spirituality point, there was one scene I wanted to ask you about: at one of the high camps there’s a mutiny among the Sherpas that Tenzing resolves, and it concludes with a blessing using rice.
关于灵性问题，我想问你一个场景：在一个高地营地，夏尔巴人发生了一场叛乱，丹增解决了这一事件，最后以大米的祝福结束。
I wonder if you can tell us what we’re seeing there, and more broadly how you brought the authenticity of Sherpa culture into the movie?
我想知道你能否告诉我们我们在那里看到了什么，更广泛地说，你是如何将夏尔巴文化的真实性带入电影中的？
That really came from my own experiences with Sherpas on mountains and hearing their stories.
这确实来自于我自己在山区与夏尔巴协作的经历以及听到他们的故事。
That scene where they say [of Chomolungma] that they’re too frightened to go further because now that we’re up at the South Col, we’re literally stabbing our spikes into her shoulders?
在那个场景中，他们说（珠穆朗玛峰）他们太害怕了，不敢再走得更远，因为现在我们已经到了南坳，我们实际上是在把钉子刺进她的肩膀？
They were conversations that I’d heard in camps on Everest.
这些对话是我在珠穆朗玛峰营地听到的。
And one of the Sherpas in that scene – his name is Balu – was actually our expedition doctor who played that role.
那个场景中的一位夏尔巴人——他的名字叫巴鲁——实际上是扮演这个角色的我们的探险队医生。
He also said, “Jen, these are conversations I had with Sherpas like one year ago on Everest”.
他还说，“Jen，这些是我一年前在珠穆朗玛峰上与夏尔巴人的对话”。
So it was about bringing all of those experiences that I’d had in conversations with Sherpas over many years about what the mountain means to them, and trying to help a broader audience understand that, to them, it is a living embodiment of a deity, of a goddess.
因此，这是关于带来我多年来与夏尔巴人对话中的所有经验，了解这座山对他们意味着什么，并试图帮助更广泛的观众理解，对他们来说，它是神、女神的活生生的化身。
For them, there is a quite literal feeling that the landscape is inseparable from the spirituality within it.
对他们来说，有一种非常真实的感觉，即景观与其内在的灵性密不可分。
It was really important to me to portray that perspective because the film is really from Tenzing’s point of view.
对我来说，描绘这个视角非常重要，因为这部电影确实是从丹增的角度出发的。
I know he had a conversation like that with the Sherpas on that Everest expedition.
我知道他在珠穆朗玛峰探险中与夏尔巴人进行过类似的对话。
He had the challenge of not only climbing the mountain himself, but he was leading the Sherpa team and was responsible for getting all of the supplies.
他面临的挑战不仅是亲自攀登这座山，而且还要领导夏尔巴团队并负责获取所有补给品。
So he had this kind of double job that he had to do, and he was under enormous pressure.
所以他必须要做这样的双重工作，他承受着巨大的压力。
And he was juggling the demands of two very different competing groups.
他同时兼顾两个截然不同的竞争群体的需求。
And the Sherpas did fear the unknown.
夏尔巴人确实害怕未知的事物。
Tenzing was unique in the sense that he wanted to climb, but he also chose to see the goddess not as something to be feared, but to be revered, and he was unusual in that, and he was a pioneer in that way.
丹增的独特之处在于他想要攀登，但他也选择将女神视为值得尊敬的东西而不是令人恐惧的东西，在这一点上他是不寻常的，他是这方面的先驱。
There is another way to see this.
还有另一种方式可以看到这一点。
We don’t need to fear her.
我们不需要害怕她。
If we ask for her permission, ask for her blessing, she will grant us passage, she will keep us safe.
如果我们请求她的许可，请求她的祝福，她会让我们通过，她会保证我们的安全。
And that’s what that scene is about.
这就是那个场景的意思。
They’re throwing rice, which is an offering to Chomolungma.
他们正在撒大米，这是对珠穆朗玛峰的供奉。
And I think as you see in the film, it gave the Sherpas a sense of peace that it was okay, and of course it was.
我认为正如你在电影中看到的那样，它给了夏尔巴人一种平和的感觉，那就是没关系，当然是这样。
There were no accidents on that expedition.
那次探险没有发生任何事故。
There were no deaths.
没有死亡。
It was remarkable.
这是非常了不起的。
It’s a very beautiful scene.
这是一个非常美丽的场景。
I know you know Sherpa culture well from your previous works, including your 2015 documentary Sherpa .
我知道您从您之前的作品中了解了夏尔巴文化，包括您2015年的纪录片《夏尔巴》。
How much did your documentarian background inform how you approached Tenzing ?
你的纪录片制作背景在多大程度上影响了你如何接触丹增？
You probably can tell from the film that we were shooting on real mountains in real landscapes.
你可能可以从影片中看出我们是在真实风景中的真实山上拍摄的。
And I guess for me, that was what I knew.
我想对我来说，这就是我所知道的。
It seemed insane to do it any other way because part of the story is the landscape, and so to fake that didn’t make any sense to me.
以任何其他方式来做这件事似乎都很疯狂，因为故事的一部分就是风景，所以假装这对我来说没有任何意义。
I wanted the audience, but also the actors, to experience those landscapes and those cultures, and I wanted to show that when you shoot in those communities, you’re shooting with people who live in those communities, and that brings this beautiful level of authenticity.
我希望观众和演员能够体验这些风景和文化，我想表明，当你在这些社区拍摄时，你是在与生活在这些社区的人们一起拍摄，这带来了这种美丽的真实性。
And then the actors themselves cannot help but be affected by that.
然后演员们自己也情不自禁地受到影响。
You know, many of them have talked about the fact that they didn’t really need to do a lot of acting in these scenes because when Tom Hiddleston is down that crevasse climbing out of it, he’s really down a crevasse climbing out of it.
你知道，他们中的许多人都谈到了这样一个事实，即他们实际上并不需要在这些场景中做很多表演，因为当汤姆·希德勒斯顿从裂缝中爬出来时，他真的是在从裂缝中爬出来。
It was like, “Okay, Tom, start climbing.” He’s really doing it.
就像是，“好吧，汤姆，开始攀登吧。”他真的在这么做。
That was the point.
这就是重点。
I wanted to ask you about that specific moment, where Tom falls into that crevasse.
我想问你关于汤姆掉入裂缝的那个特定时刻。
How does that actually happen?
这实际上是如何发生的？
It was a trapdoor that we had set up, so when he landed in that spot, the trapdoor got pulled and he had the safety rope.
这是我们设置的活板门，所以当他降落在那个地方时，活板门被拉动，他有安全绳。
When he’s hanging in the crevasse, that is just the main safety rope – so the picture rope became the safety rope, and we did a lot of work to make sure that we could make the ropes look period appropriate, but they’re also proper safety ropes.
当他挂在裂缝中时，那只是主要的安全绳——所以图片绳就成了安全绳，我们做了很多工作来确保我们可以让绳子看起来适合时代，但它们也是合适的安全绳。
That’s how we did it.
我们就是这样做的。
He just did it for real.
他只是真的这么做了。
That’s in New Zealand.
那是在新西兰。
All of the technical climbing with the actors from Everest Base Camp up was in New Zealand [ Ed’s note: everything below Base Camp was filmed in Nepal ].
演员们从珠穆朗玛峰大本营向上进行的所有技术攀登都是在新西兰进行的[编者注：大本营以下的所有内容都是在尼泊尔拍摄的]。
And those mountains really are as big from bottom to top as the Himalayas.
而那些山脉从下到上真的和喜马拉雅山一样大。
They just start at almost sea level in the Southern Alps.
他们的起点几乎是南阿尔卑斯山的海平面。
All of the actual aerials of Everest itself, [they’re] the real mountain, the real [Khumbu] icefall.
珠穆朗玛峰本身的所有实际天线，[它们]是真正的山，真正的[Khumbu]冰瀑布。
But then we would shoot the specific scenes, in real crevasses and icefalls and ridges and faces in New Zealand.
但随后我们会在新西兰真实的裂缝、冰瀑布、山脊和面孔中拍摄特定的场景。
And the summit of Everest, we shot on the summit of one of the highest mountains in New Zealand.
珠穆朗玛峰的顶峰，我们是在新西兰最高的山脉之一的山顶拍摄的。
And you can see the awe and the emotion on the actors’ faces, because they’re standing on one of the highest mountains in New Zealand looking down at the world below them.
你可以看到演员们脸上的敬畏和情感，因为他们站在新西兰最高的山峰之一，俯视着脚下的世界。
Tenzing is streaming on Apple TV from 16 October and is being shown in select cinemas now
《丹增》自 10 月 16 日起在 Apple TV 上串流，目前正在部分电影院上映
Kev Lochun is digital editor (audience and video) at HistoryExtra
Kev Lochun 是 HistoryExtra 的数字编辑（观众和视频）
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