Centering girls in practice: Ethics, methods, and shared power in research

Early Childhood Education Education Access & Equity Education Policy Global Education K-12 Education

幼儿教育 教育机会与公平 教育政策 全球教育 K-12 教育

In this third episode of Embedding Equality in Education , Jenn O’Donoghue and Edem Ossai explore what happens when girls are centered in practice, not just as research participants but as co-creators of knowledge and drivers of change.

在《将平等融入教育》的第三集中，Jenn O’Donoghue 和 Edem Ossai 探讨了当女孩以实践为中心时会发生什么，她们不仅作为研究参与者，而且作为知识的共同创造者和变革的推动者。

They unpack the five ethical principles that guide the network’s work and introduce its girl-centered methodology, a “mosaic” of participatory methods refined across eight country contexts.

他们阐述了指导该网络工作的五项道德原则，并介绍了以女孩为中心的方法，这是在八个国家背景下完善的参与方法的“马赛克”。

We have been focusing in the last episodes on discussing lessons and amplifying the work of the Learning and Action Alliance for Girls’ Agency.

在最后几集中，我们一直专注于讨论经验教训并扩大女孩机构学习与行动联盟的工作。

In the first episode, we really delved into an introduction to this podcast, helping you to understand what we will be focusing on and what conversations will look like.

在第一集中，我们真正深入地介绍了这个播客，帮助您了解我们将关注的内容以及对话的内容。

In the second episode, we went into a deeper exploration of the values driving the work of LAAGA.

在第二集中，我们更深入地探讨了推动 LAAGA 工作的价值观。

We really explored thinking through the focus on girls in marginalized contexts.

我们确实通过关注边缘化环境中的女孩来探索思考。

So we unpacked the word “marginalization,” especially from girls’ perspectives.

因此，我们解析了“边缘化”这个词，尤其是从女孩的角度来看。

And in today’s episode, we are going to be focusing on what actually happens when we center girls in practice, not just as participants, but really as co-creators of knowledge and as drivers of change.

在今天的节目中，我们将重点关注当我们将女孩置于实践中时实际发生的情况，不仅作为参与者，而且真正作为知识的共同创造者和变革的推动者。

If you’re familiar with this podcast, you will know already that I don’t speak alone.

如果您熟悉这个播客，您就会知道我并不是一个人说话。

I have a co-host, and I will hand over now to my co-host to introduce herself and also what our conversation today will look like.

我有一位共同主持人，现在我将向我的共同主持人介绍她自己以及我们今天的谈话内容。

Over to you, Jenn.

交给你了，珍。

O’DONOGHUE: Thank you, Edem, and welcome everyone once again to the 3E Podcast.

O’DONOGHUE：谢谢你，Edem，并欢迎大家再次来到 3E 播客。

My name is Jennifer O’Donoghue, and I am a senior fellow here at Brookings and the deputy director of the Center for Universal Education, and a proud member and co-founder with Edem and and 23 other colleagues of the Learning and Action Alliance for Girls Agency.

我叫詹妮弗·奥多诺霍 (Jennifer O’Donoghue)，是布鲁金斯学会的高级研究员、普及教育中心的副主任，也是一名值得骄傲的成员，与 Edem 以及女孩机构学习与行动联盟的其他 23 名同事共同创立了该联盟。

And just so happy to be back with you again today.

很高兴今天再次与大家见面。

You know, I think today we’re discussing one of the topics that has been a part of my life since the last century.

你知道，我想今天我们正在讨论自上个世纪以来一直是我生活一部分的主题之一。

I think it was in the 1990s that I started working on on co-creation and really trying to think about what this term means, and and what it looks like in practice, and as a researcher, and working in policy spaces.

我认为是在 20 世纪 90 年代，我开始致力于共同创造，并真正尝试思考这个术语的含义，以及它在实践中的样子，作为一名研究员，在政策领域工作。

And so I’m so excited that we’re, you know, really delving into this topic of what is co-creation, what does it mean to co-create knowledge, and what does it mean to do that with girls, and girls in marginalized contexts in particular.

所以我很兴奋，我们正在深入探讨什么是共同创造，共同创造知识意味着什么，以及对女孩，特别是边缘化环境中的女孩来说，这样做意味着什么。

And, co-creation is one of those words that has become a buzzword.

而且，共同创造是已经成为流行语的词之一。

You might hear it all around.

你可能会听到周围的声音。

But, you know, for us, we really want to unpack what this means for us and what this means in terms of of research and knowledge creation and, you know, that it’s that it’s really not just about changing who’s sort of in the room or who’s involved in the research, but really changing what and how you do the research itself.

但是，你知道，对我们来说，我们真的想解开这对我们意味着什么，以及这对研究和知识创造意味着什么，你知道，这实际上不仅仅是改变房间里的人或参与研究的人，而是真正改变研究本身的内容和方式。

And, you know, this means that we have to unlearn things that we have learned in the past as adults, you know, working with girls, that we have to get comfortable with with sharing power and that sharing power first and foremost in the definition of problems and in the definition of research questions.

而且，你知道，这意味着我们必须忘掉过去作为成年人学到的东西，你知道，在与女孩一起工作时，我们必须适应分享权力，而分享权力首先是在问题的定义和研究问题的定义中。

You know, this co-creation research for us has really been a recognition that so many girls have been left out, left out of research, left out of defining what the problem is, and of course, therefore, left out of thinking about what the solutions might be.

你知道，这项共同创造研究对我们来说确实是一种认识，即有如此多的女孩被排除在外，被排除在研究之外，被排除在定义问题是什么之外，当然，因此也被排除在思考解决方案可能是什么之外。

And, and in particular, girls once again, who are, you know, living in marginalized contexts, Indigenous girls, girls with disabilities, you know, really thinking about how they haven’t been part of this.

而且，特别是那些生活在边缘化环境中的女孩，土著女孩，残疾女孩，你知道，她们真正地思考自己为何没有参与其中。

And so for us, even this label of sort of hard to reach, right, young people, which really begs the question of hard to reach for whom.

因此，对我们来说，即使是年轻人这个难以接触的标签，也确实引出了一个难以接触到谁的问题。

Right?

正确的？

The girls are there, it’s not hard for them to reach, reach that space or reach their community and their context.

女孩们就在那里，对她们来说，到达那个空间或到达她们的社区和环境并不难。

And so for us, it’s again, unlearning these, these definitions of what we think about what it means to to be in collaboration with others, and really thinking differently about the research approach that we’re gonna use, and we’ll talk a bit more about that in a second.

所以对我们来说，再次忘记这些，这些我们对与他人合作意味着什么的定义，并真正以不同的方式思考我们将要使用的研究方法，我们稍后会详细讨论这一点。

But I think this piece to me, really starting with problem definition and how important it is that that is where you start the co-creation process and the thinking with girls.

但我认为这篇文章对我来说，真正从问题定义开始，这就是你开始与女孩共同创造过程和思考的地方，这是多么重要。

Because really, after everything you’ve heard from Jenn, I think we can all agree that you cannot promote girls’ agency without including girls in meaning-making.

因为真的，在你从 Jenn 那里听到的一切之后，我想我们都同意，如果不让女孩参与意义创造，你就无法促进女孩的能动性。

And Jenn has talked about how, you know, even defining the problem is really the starting point.

Jenn 谈到，你知道，即使定义问题也是真正的起点。

And so when you think about meaning-making, when you think about just delving into girls’ everyday realities, what a day in a girl’s life looks like, understanding how she’s making her decisions, what her dreams look like, what empowers or constrains her to be able to act on those dreams, you realize that she’s central at every key point in in that, you know, examination or that exploration.

因此，当你思考意义创造时，当你思考深入研究女孩的日常现实、女孩生活中的一天是什么样子、了解她如何做出决定、她的梦想是什么样子、是什么赋予或限制她能够实现这些梦想时，你就会意识到，在检查或探索的每个关键点上，她都是核心。

Without the girl, you really can’t pinpoint the problem accurately.

没有这个女孩，你真的无法准确定位问题。

Without her, you really can’t understand the structural world she lives in and and how it enables her or limits her.

没有她，你真的无法理解她所生活的结构世界，以及它如何帮助她或限制她。

You know, she’s in the best position to explain how her world impacts her dreams.

你知道，她最适合解释她的世界如何影响她的梦想。

How can we talk about promoting any person’s agency if they’re not included in the process?

如果某个人没有参与到这个过程中，我们怎么能谈论提升他们的代理权呢？

And that’s the key word.

这就是关键词。

It’s a process.

这是一个过程。

So it’s a cycle.

所以这是一个循环。

And it takes you up to the point of even transformation, because remember, this is all about research and action for gender-just futures.

它会让你达到甚至转变的地步，因为记住，这都是为了性别公正的未来而进行的研究和行动。

So the idea is what you discover should help you transform your world.

所以这个想法就是你发现的应该帮助你改变你的世界。

What the girl discovers, should really position her to transform her world, to make it more desirable, and that centers her.

女孩发现的东西应该真正帮助她改变自己的世界，使其变得更加令人向往，这才是她的中心。

So it’s not about us transforming the world for the girl.

所以这不是我们要为女孩改变世界。

It’s about her really understanding the world in which she lives in.

这是关于她真正了解她所生活的世界。

And I think our early conversations within the network, we always talked about how we want to research for, with, and about agency.

我认为我们在网络内的早期对话中，我们总是谈论我们希望如何为代理机构、与代理机构一起进行研究以及关于代理机构的研究。

And so what does that mean?

那么这意味着什么呢？

It means, you know, how does this look like?

这意味着，你知道，这看起来怎么样？

What’s the position of the girl in this kind of equation of researching for, with, and about agency?

在这种为代理研究、与代理研究以及关于代理研究的等式中，女孩的地位是什么？

She’s in the forefront, and that’s why Jen mentioned, you know, distributing the power.

她站在最前面，这就是为什么 Jen 提到，你知道，分配权力。

It changes the lens from which the researcher views things.

它改变了研究人员看待事物的视角。

You know?

你知道？

You can only understand this world through the girl’s lens.

你只能通过女孩的镜头来了解这个世界。

And this is a good point to really introduce the work that our colleague has been doing in the Lao Cai region in Vietnam, because I think Tran’s work really illustrates, you know, perfectly the centering and including of girls and essentially, you know, viewing the world through the girl’s lens.

这是一个很好的观点来真正介绍我们的同事在越南老街地区所做的工作，因为我认为 Tran 的工作真正说明了，你知道，完美地展示了女孩的中心和包容性，本质上，你知道，通过女孩的镜头观察世界。

We we always make sure that girls themself was at the center of each conversation.

我们始终确保女孩本身成为每次谈话的中心。

In our school visit, we used, simple and scenario-based activities to help girls talk about their everyday choices, and also their big life choices.

在我们的学校参观中，我们使用简单且基于场景的活动来帮助女孩谈论她们的日常选择，以及她们人生的重大选择。

And, and, and this make them to reflect and also bring the the research to feel more real.

而且，而且，这让他们反思，也让研究感觉更加真实。

Not something, like, abstract and not just a concept.

不是某种抽象的东西，也不仅仅是一个概念。

How do you problem solve without the girl who you’re hiding behind a veil of anonymity or who you claim you want to keep confidential?

如果没有你隐藏在匿名面纱后面或你声称要保密的女孩，你如何解决问题？

But she has to be center, she has to be a center piece in the whole spectrum of problem-solving.

但她必须成为中心，她必须成为解决整个问题的中心人物。

Her voice, her understandings, her insights are critical to the entire picture.

她的声音、她的理解、她的洞察力对整个画面至关重要。

So, even though LAAGA has been very critical and sensitive to the girls in the different contexts and what their lives look like, we, for us, you know, don’t see any reason why that sensitivity should exclude the girl.

因此，尽管 LAAGA 对不同背景下的女孩及其生活状况非常挑剔和敏感，但我们，对我们来说，你知道，不认为有任何理由将这种敏感性排除在外。

In fact, it should do the reverse.

事实上，它应该做相反的事情。

And so a focus on protecting marginalized girls we recognize has led to their erasure in the past and, or, you know, their silencing or their invisibility.

因此，我们认识到，对保护边缘化女孩的关注导致她们在过去被抹去，或者，你知道，她们被沉默或隐形。

And so we are very intentional that protection doesn’t take us, you know, down that slippery slope also.

因此，我们非常有意识地确保保护不会让我们也陷入滑坡。

Protection cannot be positive if it has the effect of excluding girls from participating as co-creators.

如果保护会导致女孩无法作为共同创造者参与，那么保护就不可能是积极的。

They have to be in the room.

他们必须在房间里。

They have to be part of the sense-making process.

它们必须成为意义建构过程的一部分。

Don’t just go to them wherever you call them, hard to reach, and then extract information from them and take it somewhere and begin to make meaning and, you know, propose solutions.

不要只是去到他们很难联系到的地方，然后从他们那里提取信息并将其带到某个地方，开始赋予意义，并提出解决方案。

No. They are part of the entire cycle from understanding the realities of their lives to analyzing what that, you know, means to problem-solving or basically arriving at recommendations or making proposals for a more just future.

不。他们是整个循环的一部分，从了解生活的现实到分析生活的意义，你知道，解决问题或基本上提出建议或为更公正的未来提出建议。

The girl has to be integral throughout that cycle.

女孩必须是整个周期中不可或缺的一部分。

This is something our work and the lessons from our colleagues around the Global South and the world really demonstrate.

这是我们的工作以及南半球和世界各地同事的经验教训真正证明的。

Ethical principles need to promote girls’ agency, their voice, and their ownership.

道德原则需要促进女孩的能动性、她们的声音和她们的主人翁意识。

O’DONOGHUE: Yeah.

奥多诺休：是的。

You know, I think that I’ll pick up sort of from your last line there on, we’re not talking about sort of ignoring ethical principles in research.

你知道，我想我会从你的最后一句话中吸取一些教训，我们并不是在谈论研究中忽视道德原则的情况。

We’re really talking about how can we be intentional?

我们真正讨论的是我们如何才能有意识？

How can we treat these ethical principles with care and in ways that promote, as you said, girls’ agency, girls’ voice, girls’ ownership of the research and of the outcomes of that research.

正如您所说，我们如何谨慎对待这些道德原则，并以促进女孩的能动性、女孩的声音、女孩对研究和研究结果的所有权的方式。

And, you know, I think that across LAAGA, I think we had the benefit, right, of of again 25 people who had been deeply engaged in different types of research and working with communities and working with girls, and so had those deep roots and you know, really drew from that deep connection to the girls and to their communities and their context to think about what are ethical principles that center girls as co-creators within research processes?

而且，你知道，我认为在整个 LAAGA，我认为我们再次受益于 25 个人，他们深入参与了不同类型的研究，与社区和女孩一起工作，因此有着深厚的根基，你知道，真正从与女孩、她们的社区和背景的深厚联系中汲取灵感，思考什么是使女孩在研究过程中作为共同创造者的道德原则？

And so for us, what really came out of this was five principles, ethical principles that that guide our work with the girls.

因此，对我们来说，真正产生的是五项原则，即指导我们与女孩合作的道德原则。

This is first centering girls and amplifying their voices, experiences, perspectives, ways of knowing.

首先以女孩为中心，扩大她们的声音、经历、观点和认识方式。

A second piece has really been about the relationships that we develop with girls and with communities, and that these, you know, are are truly characterized by respect, that they’re reciprocal, and that they are allowed to grow and develop throughout the research process.

第二部分实际上是关于我们与女孩和社区发展的关系，你知道，这些关系的真正特点是尊重，它们是互惠的，并且允许它们在整个研究过程中成长和发展。

Right?

正确的？

And they’re renegotiated throughout the research process as well.

并且它们也在整个研究过程中进行重新协商。

So the third principle for us was really around promoting systemic change through the research.

因此，我们的第三个原则实际上是通过研究促进系统性变革。

And so for us, that meant really creating space with the research and through the research to challenge some of those structures that we talked about in our last episode that are really constraining agency for girls and keeping girls and their communities excluded.

因此，对我们来说，这意味着真正通过研究创造空间，并通过研究来挑战我们在上一集中谈到的一些结构，这些结构确实限制了女孩的代理权，并将女孩及其社区排除在外。

The fourth was really around promoting ownership and how can we ensure that the research processes, the research outcomes are designed and really created so that they benefit the girls and the communities involved.

第四个问题实际上是关于促进所有权，以及我们如何确保研究过程和研究成果的设计和真正创造，以便使女孩和所涉及的社区受益。

This is not something that we as the researchers want to go in and say, “This is what we most want,” but how can we work with girls and communities to identify what they most want and what they most need and what they most prioritize through the research process.

作为研究人员，我们不想说“这是我们最想要的”，但我们如何才能与女孩和社区合作，确定她们在研究过程中最想要什么、最需要什么以及最优先考虑什么。

And then the fifth is a process of being reflexive and how do we create opportunities to reflect on the work that we’re doing, on our relationships within the work, on what this means on some of the biases or assumptions that we might be bringing to this research.

然后第五个是反思的过程，以及我们如何创造机会反思我们正在做的工作，反思我们在工作中的关系，反思这对我们可能带入这项研究的一些偏见或假设意味着什么。

And we, you know, have tried to do this with girls, with other community members, and with one another.

你知道，我们已经尝试与女孩、与其他社区成员以及彼此之间做到这一点。

And I think again, that points to the strengths of working in this global network across 15 different countries, is that we really are able to be in conversation with one another and and sort of check each other, right, on our interpretations of things, on the way that we’re approaching this, and hold one another accountable to these ethical principles.

我再次认为，在这个跨越 15 个不同国家的全球网络中工作的优势在于，我们确实能够相互对话，并在某种程度上相互检查我们对事物的解释、我们处理问题的方式，并让彼此对这些道德原则负责。

I just listed a bunch.

我只是列出了一堆。

This is like a lot of heavy words and and heavy meaning within those five principles.

这就像这五个原则中的许多沉重的词语和沉重的含义。

So would again encourage you all to check them out.

因此，再次鼓励大家检查一下。

We have one report from LAAGA that is just on our girl-centered methodology and lays out these principles, and practices that go with them, for what it means to do this type of of ethical co-created research.

我们收到了 LAAGA 的一份报告，该报告只是关于我们以女孩为中心的方法论，并阐述了这些原则以及与之相伴的实践，以及进行此类道德共同创造研究的意义。

But I think importantly, you know, is, is we didn’t just focus on the principles, but we really tried to think about what does that look like in practice.

但我认为重要的是，我们不仅仅关注原则，而且我们确实尝试思考实践中会是什么样子。

So Edem, is there anything that stuck out for you about LAAGA’s work and, and how we’ve really tried to bring these principles into practice?

那么，Edem，LAAGA 的工作以及我们如何真正尝试将这些原则付诸实践，有什么让您印象深刻的吗？

And the girls themselves became researchers.

女孩们自己也成为了研究人员。

So they began to ask their mothers, their aunties, their grandparents these questions, these same set of questions that, you know, they had engaged and and reflected around.

所以他们开始问他们的母亲、阿姨、祖父母这些问题，这些问题是他们一直在思考和思考的。

They took them back home, and they brought the responses, you know?

他们把他们带回家，并带来了答复，你知道吗？

So it became, you know, a, sort of like a melting pot of intergenerational, views, worldviews, and girls were beginning to assess their lives through the lens of their mothers, their grandparents, seeing where they were coming from and why they were having the attitudes that they had, shaping the kind of world that, you know, they were shaping for the girls themselves.

所以，它变成了，你知道，有点像一个代际观点、世界观的大熔炉，女孩们开始通过母亲、祖父母的镜头来评估自己的生活，了解自己来自哪里，为什么会有这样的态度，塑造一个，你知道，她们正在为女孩们塑造的世界。

So it it was very interesting to see this principle come alive when you distribute the power, when you are adaptive, when you allow, you know, girls coming from multiple entry points, like you you talked about.

因此，当你分配权力时，当你具有适应性时，当你允许来自多个切入点的女孩时，就像你谈到的那样，看到这一原则变得活跃起来是非常有趣的。

And all of these ethical principles, as you said, were were observed, but in a way that enhanced girls’ participation rather than excluding or rendering them invisible.

正如你所说，所有这些道德原则都得到了遵守，但其方式是增强女孩的参与，而不是排除她们或使她们隐形。

O’DONOGHUE: We have actually some clips from Jamila where she talks about what this looked like, and , how she experienced this with girls on the ground in South Punjab in Pakistan.

奥多诺霍：我们实际上有一些来自贾米拉的剪辑，她在其中谈论了这是什么样子，以及她如何与巴基斯坦南旁遮普省的女孩们一起经历了这一切。

We saw different videos.

我们看到了不同的视频。

And then we came to this question that what were those girls in those scenarios or in those videos were doing and how the participating girls would name those actions?

然后我们就提出了这样一个问题：那些场景或视频中的女孩在做什么以及参与的女孩如何命名这些行为？

And then, we had discussions from different angles.

然后，我们从不同的角度进行了讨论。

We came back to these questions to better understand that what in the environment is supportive for girls to make their decisions and to dream about their futures, and then to take action to realize those dreams.

我们回到这些问题是为了更好地了解环境中的哪些因素支持女孩做出决定和梦想自己的未来，然后采取行动实现这些梦想。

So I would say that action started soon, like, it was part of the research.

所以我想说行动很快就开始了，就像，这是研究的一部分。

It happened simultaneously.

它同时发生。

And, then it it didn’t stop there.

而且，然后它并没有就此停止。

The girls came back after two days and then they analyzed, they present.

两天后，女孩们回来了，然后她们进行了分析，她们进行了展示。

They didn’t report, they reported and analyzed.

他们没有报告，他们报告并分析。

There were flip charts.

有活动挂图。

There were, like, what are the people like?

比如说，人们是什么样的？

They themselves did analysis with us.

他们自己和我们一起分析。

It was a cyclical, like, process that we we couldn’t clearly differentiate that when research stopped and action started.

这是一个周期性的过程，我们无法清楚地区分研究何时停止和行动何时开始。

O’DONOGHUE: We also have a clip from one of our LAAGA members who he himself is from Nepal, but he has supported a number of the different cases, particularly the cases across different Asian contexts.

奥多诺休：我们还有来自一位 LAAGA 成员的剪辑，他本人来自尼泊尔，但他支持了许多不同的案例，特别是不同亚洲背景的案例。

And and I think that gives him a a great understanding and perspective of this piece about reflexivity and what it means to really reflect across different contexts.

我认为这让他对这篇关于反身性以及真正反映不同背景意味着什么的文章有了很好的理解和视角。

But let’s hear from Ganga Gautam about how important this ethical principle of reflection has been to him.

但让我们听听甘加·高塔姆 (Ganga Gautam) 的讲述，反思的道德原则对他来说有多么重要。

So it’s a kind of, I would say, self-transformation in my understanding and the shifting image of how I perceive agency now, and how I used to perceive agency before I joined this organization.

所以我想说，这是我理解上的一种自我转变，以及我现在如何看待代理的形象的转变，以及我在加入这个组织之前如何看待代理的转变。

I mean, the kind of understanding about agency has been more crystallized and refined because of my conversation with LAAGA colleagues and our collective decision to approach agency with reference to the local ethos, local culture, local context, their upbringing.

我的意思是，由于我与 LAAGA 同事的交谈以及我们集体决定参考当地精神、当地文化、当地环境和他们的成长来接触代理，对代理的理解更加具体和完善。

O’DONOGHUE: So, you know, I think, too, that for me, one of the greatest learnings from this was when we when we look at this sort of package of ethical principles, you know, what comes out of this is that, again, girls are in the center, that it’s about relationships, that it’s about creating that space for them to think about systems and to challenge systems and to to become owners.

奥多诺修：所以，你知道，我也认为，对我来说，从中学到的最伟大的教训之一是，当我们审视这类道德原则时，你知道，从中得出的结论是，女孩再次处于中心，这与人际关系有关，为她们创造空间来思考系统、挑战系统并成为所有者。

And when we thought about this across, you know, the different contexts that we work in, LAAGA has now done research in eight different country contexts.

当我们跨越我们工作的不同背景来思考这个问题时，LAAGA 现在已经在八个不同的国家背景下进行了研究。

And, you know, where we landed in terms of the methodology was that we really needed to have multiple methods because an understanding that the same method wasn’t going to work in every in every space.

而且，你知道，我们在方法论方面的立场是，我们确实需要有多种方法，因为我们知道相同的方法并不适用于每个空间。

The same method wasn’t gonna have the same meaning in every space.

同样的方法不会在每个空间都具有相同的含义。

And so we wanted to develop something that had sort of multiple methods that we could use in there, that involved creative modes of expression, that allowed for collective inquiry with girls, as you said.

因此，我们想要开发一种具有多种方法的东西，我们可以在那里使用，涉及创造性的表达方式，允许对女孩进行集体探究，正如你所说。

And, you know, for us, we worked, and and it sounds easy now on this side of it, but, you know, we developed this, what we call our GCM, or our girl-centered methodology, and this was really a mosaic, a mosaic approach.

而且，你知道，对我们来说，我们工作了，现在这方面听起来很容易，但是，你知道，我们开发了这个，我们称之为 GCM，或者我们以女孩为中心的方法论，这实际上是一种马赛克，一种马赛克方法。

So it was sort of one methodology, one methodological approach with multiple methods and and a mosaic of methods that could be put together and used in different ways in different contexts.

因此，它是一种方法论，一种具有多种方法的方法论途径，以及可以在不同背景下以不同方式组合和使用的多种方法。

And, you know, a starting point for us in the development of this GCM mosaic approach was really inspiration from another woman researcher who we all, Edem and I, and and others of us in LAAGA, have had such an amazing opportunity to be able to learn from her work, and that is Relebohile Moletšane from South Africa, Lebo, to us and affectionately.

而且，你知道，我们开发这种 GCM 镶嵌方法的起点实际上是来自另一位女性研究员的灵感，我们所有人，Edem 和我，以及我们在 LAAGA 的其他人，都有这样一个绝佳的机会能够从她的工作中学习，那就是来自南非的 Relebohile Moletšane，Lebo，对我们充满感情。

And in particular that her partnership with a researcher from Canada, Claudia Mitchell.

尤其是她与加拿大研究员克劳迪娅·米切尔的合作。

And, you know, they have really been working for for several decades now, or at least the past 15, 20 years to develop with others in the field, but a different approach to research that they call a girl method.

而且，你知道，他们实际上已经工作了几十年，或者至少在过去 15、20 年里与该领域的其他人一起开发，但他们称之为“女孩方法”的不同研究方法。

And this really recognizes that girls are active agents in research, that they need to be.

这确实承认女孩是研究的积极推动者，她们需要这样做。

It also recognizes, as we’ve been talking about, that so many girls have been excluded from research.

正如我们一直在谈论的那样，它还认识到许多女孩被排除在研究之外。

And so thinking about a a methodology that allows us to explore the diversity of experiences, the diversity of perspectives.

因此，我们需要思考一种方法，让我们能够探索经验的多样性和观点的多样性。

Right?

正确的？

Again, as we talked about in our last episode, you know, girls are not a monolith.

再说一遍，正如我们在上一集中谈到的，你知道，女孩并不是一块庞然大物。

Right?

正确的？

And so how do you really create methods that can uncover that, right, and and really make space for all of that diversity to to come through?

那么，如何真正创建能够揭示这一点的方法，并且真正为所有这些多样性的实现创造空间呢？

And then, you know, importantly, and this is one of, I think for me, has been one of my greatest learnings in this process, is how can we create a method for studying agency that moves us beyond allowed agency?

然后，你知道，重要的是，我认为对我来说，这是我在这个过程中最大的收获之一，就是我们如何创建一种研究代理的方法，使我们超越允许的代理？

So within the research on this topic, there’s an idea that, you know, as adults we come in with biases, we come in with prejudices, we come in with assumptions about what are, like, positive ways that young people and girls in particular can exercise agency.

因此，在这个主题的研究中，有一个想法，你知道，作为成年人，我们带着偏见，我们带着成见，我们带着关于年轻人和女孩尤其是可以行使代理权的积极方式的假设。

And again, agency is that power to dream, to decide, to take action.

再次强调，能动性是梦想、决定和采取行动的力量。

And so many times adults decide, like, Oh, this is agency because, because girls are taking the kind of decisions that I think they should.

很多时候，成年人会做出这样的决定，比如，哦，这是机构，因为，因为女孩正在做出我认为她们应该做出的决定。

Right?

正确的？

And so we really limit the space for girls to exercise their agency by having this idea of what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable.

因此，我们通过了解什么是可以接受的、什么是不可以接受的想法，确实限制了女孩行使她们的代理权的空间。

And so we wanted to think about, okay, how do we get beyond that?

所以我们想思考，好吧，我们如何超越这一点？

And this was really for us, this piece around creating a girl-centered methodology that weaves together multiple methods really meant to capture diverse experiences, support co-creation, again, and that, that this can happen across contexts.

这对我们来说真的很适合，这篇文章围绕创建一种以女孩为中心的方法论，将多种方法编织在一起，真正意味着捕捉不同的经验，支持共同创造，而且，这可以跨环境发生。

Right?

正确的？

And so, it it is meant to be something that is adapted as as we go along.

因此，它应该随着我们的发展而进行调整。

So how do we strip ourselves in this participatory, collaborative learning experience with girls of those notions?

那么，我们如何在与女孩的参与式、协作式学习体验中摆脱这些观念呢？

We had to be flexible, and this is some of the key features of this mosaic.

我们必须保持灵活性，这是这个马赛克的一些关键特征。

We have to be iterative.

我们必须迭代。

We talked earlier a couple of minutes ago about being, you know, adaptive, allowing the process to unfold by itself, you know, girls leading the path.

几分钟前我们早些时候讨论过，你知道，适应性，让这个过程自行展开，你知道，女孩们在引领道路。

So how do you, you know, allow for any kind of girl experiencing, having any kind of reality to still be part of this process, to still be able to share her reality, and explain what her agency looks like?

那么，你知道，如何允许任何类型的女孩经历、拥有任何类型的现实仍然是这个过程的一部分，仍然能够分享她的现实，并解释她的机构是什么样子？

That, you know, requires creating multiple entryways, obviously.

你知道，这显然需要创建多个入口。

That also emphasizes on a very ongoing methodological framework.

这也强调了一个非常持续的方法论框架。

In other words, allow the framework to evolve.

换句话说，允许框架不断发展。

So at the moment, you know, we have this wonderful mosaic, which is evolving, you know, but we’ve seen some of the participatory methods by our colleagues.

所以目前，你知道，我们有这个美妙的马赛克，它正在不断发展，你知道，但我们已经看到了我们同事的一些参与方法。

Some of them include the bridge model, where we’ve seen girls, you know, visualize where they currently are, visualize where they hope to be, and then point to limitations on the path from this current world or reality to where they desire to be, and who’s an enabler or who’s, you know, a limitation or what is an enabler and what is…

其中一些包括桥梁模型，我们看到女孩，你知道，想象他们目前在哪里，想象他们希望去哪里，然后指出从当前世界或现实到他们想要去的地方的道路上的限制，以及谁是推动者或谁是限制，或者什么是推动者以及什么是......

you know?

你知道吗？

So that’s one example.

这就是一个例子。

We have girls engage in community mapping.

我们让女孩参与社区绘图。

And just by, you know, painting an image of their community, girls are able to point to safe spaces, empowering spaces in their community, or spaces that feel like a threat or spaces that confine or limit them, or shrink them.

你知道，仅仅通过描绘社区的形象，女孩就能够指出安全的空间、赋予社区权力的空间、感觉像是威胁的空间、限制或限制她们的空间或缩小她们的空间。

And so you get a sense of the world that they navigate every day.

这样你就能了解他们每天所经历的世界。

Or even peer reflections.

甚至是同行的反思。

These are some examples of the mosaic methods.

这些是马赛克方法的一些示例。

Like, sitting with their peers is so revealing.

就像，和他们的同龄人坐在一起就是如此有启发性。

Conversations with peers, and we have an example, I think Jenn mentioned it in the last episode, where we had a hopscotch.

与同龄人的对话，我们有一个例子，我想 Jenn 在上一集中提到过，我们有一个跳房子。

I think it was in Pakistan, Jamila’s work with the girls in Pakistan, just, you know, presented this interesting worldview through this game.

我认为那是在巴基斯坦，贾米拉与巴基斯坦女孩的合作，只是，你知道，通过这个游戏呈现了这个有趣的世界观。

It was almost like a bridge model but using the hopscotch imagery.

它几乎就像一个桥梁模型，但使用了跳房子图像。

So that’s that game that’s very popular in the U.S. and other parts of the Global North, right, Where kids, you know, jump loops to get to the end?

这就是那个在美国和北半球其他地区非常流行的游戏，对吧，孩子们，你知道，在哪里跳循环才能到达终点？

But girls using that same imagery on the ground were able to, you know, peers through reflections, “Avoid this, don’t do that.

但是，在地面上使用相同图像的女孩能够，你知道，通过反射来凝视，“避免这个，不要这样做。

No, don’t do this,” or, “Talk to this, talk to this, talk to that.” Right?

不，不要这样做，”或者，“跟这个说话，跟这个说话，跟那个说话。”正确的？

So peer reflections are another very powerful, revealing methodology we’ve found in in our work and through our experience.

因此，同行反思是我们在工作和经验中发现的另一种非常强大、具有启发性的方法。

Also examining proverbs.

又考谚语。

So for instance with the work that was done in the Karamoja region in Kenya and Uganda, the use of proverbs and just analyzing what idiomatic expressions or typical expressions in everyday language look like ushered us into a world of, you know, meaning.

例如，在肯尼亚和乌干达的卡拉莫贾地区所做的工作中，谚语的使用以及日常语言中的惯用表达或典型表达的分析将我们带入了一个意义的世界。

Of course, focus groups happen to be another way by which our colleagues have really, you know, worked with girls to do a lot of meaning-making.

当然，焦点小组恰好是我们的同事与女孩一起真正创造很多意义的另一种方式。

Moving from just, gaining insights into girls’ world, but also to, you know, analyzing those insights, coming to a clear understanding, a very relatable or practical understanding of how girls view the world around them.

从仅仅深入了解女孩的世界，还要分析这些见解，对女孩如何看待周围的世界有一个清晰的、非常相关或实用的理解。

How girls, if they had a chance, you know, would problem solve their world to get to their desired outcomes.

你知道，如果有机会，女孩们将如何解决她们的世界问题，以达到她们想要的结果。

So these key features, like I said, you know, translated into some of these amazing methods that have been employed, not only in the countries I have mentioned, but if you read our reports, again, the links are in the description, you will see our vast case studies of different work carried out by our colleagues around the world.

因此，正如我所说，这些关键特征转化为一些令人惊奇的方法，这些方法不仅在我提到的国家/地区得到了采用，而且如果您阅读我们的报告，链接位于描述中，您将看到我们对世界各地的同事开展的不同工作的大量案例研究。

O’DONOGHUE: I think as as you can probably tell from listening to Edem and I, we get really excited about the girl-centered methodology.

奥多诺休：我认为，正如你从埃德姆和我的演讲中可以看出的那样，我们对以女孩为中心的方法感到非常兴奋。

And, you know, I think that for us, we are sharing a bit of it here and encouraging folks to go to the publication because you will find in there a full appendix that really lists through, you know, what we wanted to do was to make this methodology available to everyone and to say, “This is how we did it.”

而且，你知道，我认为对我们来说，我们在这里分享了一些内容，并鼓励人们阅读该出版物，因为你会在其中找到完整的附录，其中真正列出了，你知道，我们想要做的是让每个人都可以使用这种方法，并说：“我们就是这样做的。”

We even, some of them have, “We took this much time for this part of the activity and this much time for another.” But you can get a lot of other details through that for those of you who who really care about that type of of methodological approach and information.

我们甚至，其中一些人，“我们在这部分活动上花了这么多时间，在另一部分活动上也花了这么多时间。”但对于那些真正关心这种方法论和信息的人来说，您可以通过它获得很多其他细节。

And, you know, I also, Edem, wanted to pick up on one other piece that you mentioned, which is the sort of ongoing evolution of the of the methods, and that sort of refinement of the tools along the way.

而且，你知道，我，Edem，也想了解你提到的另一篇文章，这是方法的持续演变，以及一路上工具的改进。

And, you know, one thing I think worth mentioning here, too, is, you know, we have done this LAAGA research in eight different countries.

而且，我认为这里值得一提的一件事是，我们在八个不同的国家进行了这项 LAAGA 研究。

We didn’t do it all at the same time, but we have rolled this out over the past several years.

我们并不是同时做这一切，但我们在过去几年里已经推出了这一切。

And so what this has meant was an opportunity for, for us to learn from each case, and from the methods that were used in that setting and, and that space.

因此，这意味着我们有机会从每个案例以及在该环境和空间中使用的方法中学习。

And then to build on those as we moved forward.

然后我们在此基础上继续前进。

And so, you know, you mentioned, um, some of the work done in Pakistan of the bridge that they turned into this, like, physical game-like experience.

所以，你知道，你提到，嗯，在巴基斯坦完成的一些桥梁工作，他们把它们变成了这种类似物理游戏的体验。

And also in Pakistan, you know, our, our colleague Sumbal Naveed, who was leading that case study research there, developed this technique that that she called brain netting.

同样在巴基斯坦，我们的同事 Sumbal Naveed 在那里领导了该案例研究，她开发了这种她称之为脑网的技术。

And, you know, this was really a way to more deeply engage girls in the analysis so that it’s not just sort of the co-construction of knowledge, but it’s really the the analytical process of that.

而且，你知道，这确实是一种让女孩更深入地参与分析的方法，因此这不仅仅是知识的共同构建，而且确实是其中的分析过程。

And so that’s also explained, in more detail in in the report.

报告中也对此进行了更详细的解释。

But, you know, it’s really about how do you create moments throughout the research process to pause with girls and say, “Okay, what are you hearing?” Right?

但是，你知道，这实际上是关于如何在整个研究过程中创造时刻，停下来与女孩们一起说：“好吧，你听到了什么？”正确的？

We’re all sharing stories.

我们都在分享故事。

We’re all sharing experiences.

我们都在分享经验。

What do you hear here that matters?

你在这里听到了什么重要的事情？

What what are the priorities?

优先事项是什么？

What are the the the similarities and the differences across this?

这之间有什么相同点和不同点？

And so, really making that process more explicit with the girls so that they could be part of the analysis and the ongoing analysis and meaning-making, I think was was a really important refinement to the methodology that grew through there.

因此，真正让女孩们更加明确这一过程，以便她们能够参与分析以及持续的分析和意义创造，我认为这是对在那里发展的方法论的一个非常重要的改进。

So anyways, I think probably, I don’t know, I feel that I’m having one of my moments where I’m kind of nerding out about how much I love the to talk about the methodology.

所以无论如何，我想可能，我不知道，我觉得我正经历着这样一个时刻，我有点沉迷于我是多么喜欢谈论方法论。

And in that committee, girls were, like, , executives of the committee, pointing to problems in their schools, problems around hygiene, you know, sanitation, water problems, and literally, you know, demanding or expressing what they want in those committees.

在该委员会中，女孩们就像委员会的高管一样，指出她们学校的问题、卫生问题、环境卫生、水问题，并且从字面上看，您知道，在这些委员会中要求或表达她们想要什么。

The committee, I recall, also went through an iterative process where they had to change the name, because after consultations with all the different stakeholders, they discovered that the initial name they gave it came from a point of initial bias, and didn’t, you know, reflect that more empowering position or centering of the girl, but came from this, you know, preconceived idea of, “Well, we’re coming in to save the girl.”

我记得，委员会还经历了一个必须更改名称的迭代过程，因为在与所有不同的利益相关者协商后，他们发现他们给它的最初名称来自于最初的偏见，并且没有，你知道，反映了女孩更有权力的位置或中心，而是来自于此，你知道，先入为主的想法，“好吧，我们是来拯救这个女孩的。”

So it’s interesting how even, you know, through earlier work and earlier experiences and and and research methods employed, newer case studies are building on that and having their own experiences.

因此，有趣的是，即使通过早期的工作和早期的经验以及所采用的研究方法，新的案例研究也在此基础上建立并拥有自己的经验。

And I imagine future, you know, research will also take advantage, leverage these, you know, iterative work that’s happened and keep evolving from that.

我想象未来的研究也将利用这些已经发生的迭代工作并不断发展。

I just, you know, recalled that as you were sharing, Jenn, and I was like, yeah, had a moment also to- Yeah …

我只是，你知道，回忆起当你分享时，Jenn，我当时想，是的，也有一段时间 - 是的......

to fangirl on methods.

向 fangirl 介绍方法。

O’DONOGHUE: And I think you’ve done a great job, Edem, of of really driving home, you know, that this this sort of step in the research for us about centering girls as co-creators of knowledge comes with a second part, which we say is and drive the drivers of change.

奥多诺霍：埃德姆，我认为你做得很好，你知道，我们研究中的这种以女孩为知识共同创造者的研究步骤附带了第二部分，我们说这是推动变革的驱动力。

Right?

正确的？

So girls are not only the co-creators of knowledge, but they’re also the drivers of change.

因此，女孩不仅是知识的共同创造者，而且还是变革的推动者。

And I think that example that you just shared is such a powerful one.

我认为你刚才分享的例子非常有力。

And I look forward also, because we have an episode, I think a few down the road where we’ll really talk about what it meant to center sort of the the research that we had done with girls in these community spaces.

我也很期待，因为我们有一集，我想接下来我们会真正讨论将我们在这些社区空间中对女孩所做的研究集中起来意味着什么。

For now, we’ll, we’ll begin to sort of wrap up with this, hoping that you all have enjoyed this time with us to really think about what does it mean to be a co-creator of knowledge.

现在，我们将开始总结这一点，希望你们都享受与我们在一起的这段时间，真正思考成为知识的共同创造者意味着什么。

What does that look like?

那看起来像什么？

What are the principles behind that, that when we talk about, you know, girl-centered research as a commitment to justice and to making space and sharing power, you know, that that we’ve tried to bring that to life so that those aren’t just words.

其背后的原则是什么，当我们谈论以女孩为中心的研究作为对正义、创造空间和分享权力的承诺时，我们试图将其变为现实，以便这些不仅仅是说说而已。

Right?

正确的？

It’s not just discourse, not just things that we say, but really a commitment that we live and that that takes shape, right, and takes meaning by practice and in practice with others.

这不仅仅是话语，不仅仅是我们所说的事情，而是我们所生活的真正承诺，它通过实践和与他人的实践而成形、正确并具有意义。

And it’s also about what becomes possible, which covers the latter aspect of what Jenn talked about, which is that girls aren’t just co-creators of knowledge, they are drivers of change.

这也是关于什么是可能的，这涵盖了 Jenn 所说的后一个方面，即女孩不仅仅是知识的共同创造者，她们还是变革的驱动者。

So what do you do with what you know and after the how, what do you do with, you know, what becomes possible?

那么，你用你所知道的做什么，在知道如何做之后，你用什么做，你知道，什么是可能的？

Girls have to be very critical or integral in that, you know, emerging picture.

你知道，在新兴的图景中，女孩必须非常挑剔或不可或缺。

And so research, I think, I want to emphasize as we sort of wrap up that you have to share power.

因此，我认为，在我们结束研究时，我想强调的是，你必须分享权力。

You have to be committed.

你必须全身心投入。

If you’re committed to justice and a gender-just future, you have to be willing to distribute that power, to share it, you know, to invite the girl into your current power dynamic.

如果你致力于正义和性别公正的未来，你就必须愿意分配这种权力，分享它，你知道，邀请女孩加入你当前的权力动态。

You have to center her lived experience.

你必须以她的生活经历为中心。

You have to center the lived experiences of the most excluded groups of people that you are trying to understand.

你必须以你想要了解的最受排斥群体的生活经历为中心。

Right?

正确的？

You have to enable action because at the end of the day, we seek to understand so we can transform our world and make it more gender just, more equitable for everyone.

你必须采取行动，因为归根结底，我们寻求理解，以便我们能够改变我们的世界，使其更加性别公正，对每个人都更加公平。

Right?

正确的？

So that has to lead us to enabling action.

因此，这必须引导我们采取行动。

And so I think I’d like you to have these central messages at the back of your mind as you contemplate everything else that we’ve discussed.

因此，我希望您在思考我们讨论过的其他所有内容时，牢记这些中心信息。

Share the power, center lived experiences, and please enable action.

分享力量，集中生活经验，并请采取行动。

Jenn, what can they look forward to in the next episode?

Jenn，他们对下一集有什么期待？

O’DONOGHUE: Yeah, well, I am really excited about the next episode because in the next episode, we’re gonna be going in depth into what we learned from the girls, with the girls about agency, what that means, what it looks like, how they live it in their everyday lives.

奥多诺霍：是的，嗯，我对下一集感到非常兴奋，因为在下一集中，我们将深入探讨我们从女孩们那里学到的东西，与女孩们一起了解代理，这意味着什么，它是什么样子，以及她们在日常生活中如何生活。

You know, we’ve been talking a lot about setting it all up of, you know, what does marginalization mean and what do, how did we do this research?

你知道，我们一直在谈论很多关于设置这一切的问题，你知道，边缘化意味着什么，有什么作用，我们是如何进行这项研究的？

But the next episode is really going to be a space where the girls’ voices will perhaps start to, to shine through more clearly.

但下一集确实会是女孩们的声音可能开始更加清晰地闪耀的空间。

We’ll have girls talking about this experience, and talking about what they learned about agency through this process.

我们会让女孩们谈论这段经历，并谈论她们通过这个过程学到的关于代理的知识。

Thank you, Edem, so much, as always.

一如既往，非常感谢你，埃德姆。

I enjoy having this time scheduled in for you and I to be able to talk about our shared work.

我很高兴为你和我安排这个时间来谈论我们共同的工作。

So thank you.

所以谢谢你。

Thank you for listening to Embedding Equality in Education , a podcast from the Gender Equality in and through Education team in the Center for Universal Education at Brookings.

感谢您收听“将平等融入教育”，这是布鲁金斯学会普及教育中心教育团队中性别平等的播客。

Our sincere thanks to all the LAAGA members and others who contributed to this episode.

我们衷心感谢所有 LAAGA 成员和其他为这一集做出贡献的人。

O’DONOGHUE: Daniel Morales also designed the show’s artwork.

奥多诺休：丹尼尔·莫拉莱斯还设计了该剧的艺术作品。

And a very big special thank you to our former senior project assistant and co-producer, Anya Kasubhai, who did so much to get this show launched.

特别感谢我们的前高级项目助理兼联合制片人安雅·卡苏拜 (Anya Kasubhai)，他为这部剧的推出付出了巨大的努力。

O’DONOGHUE: Brookings gratefully acknowledges the support provided by Echidna Giving, Stone Family Foundation, and The LEGO Foundation in support of this work.

奥多诺休：布鲁金斯学会衷心感谢 Echidna Giving、Stone Family 基金会和乐高基金会为这项工作提供的支持。

The Brookings Institution is committed to quality, independence, and impact.

布鲁金斯学会致力于质量、独立性和影响力。

We are supported by a diverse array of funders .

我们得到了众多资助者的支持。

In line with our values and policies , each Brookings publication represents the sole views of its author(s).

根据我们的价值观和政策，布鲁金斯学会的每份出版物均代表其作者的唯一观点。

Early Childhood Education Education Access & Equity Education Policy Global Education K-12 Education

幼儿教育 教育机会与公平 教育政策 全球教育 K-12 教育