America’s Rural Future: On the Olympic Peninsula with Commission members Derek Kilmer and Benji Backer

In this special edition of Reimagine Rural , Tony Pipa interviews Derek Kilmer, senior vice president, U.S. Program & Policy at The Rockefeller Foundation and former member of the U.S. House of Representatives (WA-6) and Benji Backer, CEO and founder of Nature is Nonpartisan.

在《重新构想农村》的本期特刊中，托尼·皮帕采访了洛克菲勒基金会美国项目与政策高级副总裁、美国众议院前议员 (WA-6) 德里克·基尔默 (Derek Kilmer) 和《自然无党派》首席执行官兼创始人本吉·巴克 (Benji Backer)。

Kilmer and Backer are members of America’s Rural Future: Brookings-AEI Commission on U.S. Rural Prosperity and they share insights and perspectives from the Commission’s August 2026 visit to the Olympic Peninsula in Washington.

Kilmer 和 Backer 是美国农村的未来：布鲁金斯-AEI 美国农村繁荣委员会的成员，他们分享了该委员会 2026 年 8 月访问华盛顿奥林匹克半岛的见解和观点。

The Commission’s co-chaired by Heidi Heitkamp, former senator from North Dakota, and Chris Sununu, former governor of New Hampshire, and will produce a national rural strategy by the fall of 2027.

该委员会由北达科他州前参议员海蒂·海特坎普 (Heidi Heitkamp) 和新罕布什尔州前州长克里斯·苏努努 (Chris Sununu) 担任联合主席，将于 2027 年秋季制定国家农村战略。

The Commission’s work is informed by visits to rural places across America, so that as a commission we experience the diversity of those places and we hear directly from rural people.

该委员会的工作以对美国各地农村地区的访问为基础，因此作为一个委员会，我们体验到这些地方的多样性，并直接听取农村人口的意见。

Last month we visited the Olympic Peninsula in the State of Washington, including the towns of Port Angeles and Forks.

上个月我们参观了华盛顿州的奥林匹克半岛，包括安吉利斯港和福克斯镇。

Yes, those of you who know Twilight will recognize that name, and yes, it is that Forks.

是的，熟悉《暮光之城》的人都会认出这个名字，没错，就是那个福克斯。

And today I’m joined by commission member Derek Kilmer, the former U.S. representative for Washington 6th District, who is now senior vice president of U.S. Program and Policy at the Rockefeller Foundation.

今天，委员会成员德里克·基尔默 (Derek Kilmer) 也加入了我的行列，他是前华盛顿第六区美国代表，现任洛克菲勒基金会美国项目和政策高级副总裁。

Derek, thanks for joining us today.

德里克，感谢您今天加入我们。

And I saw a lot of my friends’ parents lose their jobs, a lot of my neighbors lose their jobs, you know, and saw my community go through a real transition, where it went from being a place that exported wood products all around the world to one where, as we heard during the Commission visit, folks are genuinely concerned about it being a place that exports young people.

我看到我的很多朋友的父母失业了，我的很多邻居失业了，你知道，我的社区经历了真正的转变，它从一个向世界各地出口木制品的地方变成了一个，正如我们在委员会访问期间听到的那样，人们真正担心它是一个出口年轻人的地方。

And, you know, that does something to you.

而且，你知道，这对你有好处。

It’s why I worked in economic development professionally.

这就是我专业从事经济发展工作的原因。

It’s why I served in Congress and mostly worked on economic opportunity.

这就是为什么我在国会任职并主要致力于经济机会。

And as you mentioned, I now work at the Rockefeller Foundation, where we’ve launched a new program that’s focused on jobs, focused on economic opportunity, and the notion that no matter what zip code you live in, you should have a shot.

正如你提到的，我现在在洛克菲勒基金会工作，我们在那里启动了一项新计划，重点关注就业、经济机会，以及无论你住在哪个邮政编码，你都应该有机会的理念。

What drew me to the Commission is that I really think it’s asking the right question.

委员会吸引我的是，我确实认为它提出了正确的问题。

For a long time, the conversation about rural America has really been between two, you know, rather unhelpful poles, either kind of romanticizing these places or just writing them off.

很长一段时间以来，关于美国乡村的讨论实际上是在两个毫无帮助的两极之间进行的，要么把这些地方浪漫化，要么干脆把它们一笔勾销。

And the reality is, you know, far more interesting and far more hopeful, in my view, than either of those things.

在我看来，现实比这些事情都更有趣、更有希望。

Rural communities are not a problem to be managed.

农村社区不是一个需要管理的问题。

They’re an asset that this country just hasn’t figured out how to invest in well.

他们是这个国家还没有弄清楚如何投资的资产。

And a commission that actually shows up, that listen, that takes these issues seriously, you know, that’s something that I was interested in being a part of.

一个真正出现、倾听、认真对待这些问题的委员会，你知道，这是我有兴趣参与的事情。

And, I have views on how we help these communities, support these communities, listen to these communities, not just my hometown, but those all around the nation.

而且，我对如何帮助这些社区、支持这些社区、倾听这些社区的意见有自己的看法，不仅仅是我的家乡，而是全国各地的社区。

And it’s part of the work I now do at the Rockefeller Foundation, and it’s part of my excitement about this Commission.

这是我现在在洛克菲勒基金会所做的工作的一部分，也是我对这个委员会感到兴奋的一部分。

I’m not as much of a native to the peninsula as Derek.

我不像德里克那样是半岛本地人。

Everyone went up to Derek and was hugging him and telling him they were like, he was their hero while we were out there.

每个人都走向德里克，拥抱他并告诉他，当我们在那里时，他是他们的英雄。

So that was not true for me.

所以这对我来说不是真的。

I have spent a lot of time out there because I went to the University of Washington just over the Puget Sound, and went over to the Olympic Peninsula on many, many weekends, and spent a lot of time over there.

我在那里度过了很多时间，因为我去了普吉特海湾对面的华盛顿大学，并在很多很多周末去了奥林匹克半岛，在那里度过了很多时间。

And it was my first time there on a work trip, that’s for sure.

这是我第一次去那里出差，这是肯定的。

But it was, it was really incredible to see, and I can’t wait to dive into it.

但确实如此，这真是令人难以置信，我迫不及待地想深入了解它。

Why I joined the Commission originally was because I grew up around this very interesting dynamic where I lived between the suburbs and rural America, I literally lived on the edge of it.

我最初加入委员会的原因是因为我是在这种非常有趣的动态中长大的，我住在美国郊区和农村之间，我实际上生活在它的边缘。

I went to high school across the street from dairy farms, which of course makes so much sense for Wisconsin and is the reason why I’m proud to have a cheesehead behind me in this camera, which you can’t probably see.

我在奶牛场对面的高中上学，这对威斯康星州来说当然很有意义，这也是为什么我为在这台相机中身后有一个奶酪头而感到自豪的原因，而你可能看不到。

But, you know, I grew up kind of around that, but also suburbia, and I I grew up seeing that division of people disliking each other from both of those camps, pitting each other against one another in both those camps without realizing that the rural communities really needed the suburban and urban communities, and vice versa.

但是，你知道，我是在郊区长大的，我从小就看到这两个阵营中的人们互相不喜欢，在这两个阵营中互相争斗，却没有意识到农村社区确实需要郊区和城市社区，反之亦然。

I think our country’s division politically is not really on right or left lines.

我认为我们国家在政治上的分裂并不是真正的右派或左派。

It’s largely on top versus bottom and rural versus urban, when in reality we need rural and urban communities to be working together far more than they are, and to be represented far more than they are.

这主要是上层与下层、农村与城市之间的竞争，而实际上，我们需要农村和城市社区比他们现在更多地合作，并且比他们更多地代表。

But as Derek mentioned, rural communities have been very much left behind.

但正如德里克提到的，农村社区已经被远远抛在了后面。

I remember one of the most striking things when I moved out to Seattle for college after living in Wisconsin my whole childhood, was going on a date with a girl who thought Wisconsin was a city.

我记得当我在威斯康星州度过了整个童年之后搬到西雅图上大学时，最引人注目的事情之一就是与一个认为威斯康星州是一座城市的女孩约会。

And then when I told her it was a state, she said, “Is that the one above Colorado?” And I said, “No, that’s Wyoming.”

然后当我告诉她这是一个州时，她说：“是科罗拉多州上面的那个吗？”我说：“不，那是怀俄明州。”

And just realizing that so many people, this is a college-educated person, not knowing about flyover country as they call it, but it’s some of the most important places in America, not only economically, but also in terms of it—the people and the communities that are there.

只是意识到很多人，这是一个受过大学教育的人，不了解他们所说的立交桥国家，但它是美国一些最重要的地方，不仅在经济上，而且在那里的人民和社区方面。

So it’s an honor to be a part of it.

所以很荣幸能成为其中的一部分。

I think it’s a really diverse group that truly represents the spectrum of America, and very excited to see where this goes in terms of how leaders follow what we will see and hear on the ground and turn that into hopefully real lasting progress.

我认为这是一个真正多元化的群体，真正代表了美国的各个方面，并且非常高兴看到领导人如何遵循我们在实地所见所闻并将其转化为真正持久的进展。

Why do you think it was important for us to come out to the Olympic Peninsula and to visit that?

您认为为什么我们来到奥林匹克半岛并参观它很重要？

And what kind of perspective is that providing to the commission that we might not have gotten, or at least even showing what the similar themes are in some of the other places that we’ve been?

为委员会提供了什么样的视角，我们可能没有得到，或者至少展示了我们去过的其他一些地方的类似主题是什么？

And as Derek knows, a lot of the state looks like that.

正如德里克所知，这个州的很多地方都是这样的。

And during my time on the Commission at least, we have not visited a traditionally blue state with a rural community, and I think that that really matters because those communities matter a lot.

至少在我在委员会任职期间，我们还没有访问过一个拥有农村社区的传统蓝色州，我认为这确实很重要，因为这些社区非常重要。

And second, it was our first time really seeing a different type of economy.

其次，这是我们第一次真正看到不同类型的经济。

The timber economy in the United States, especially for the Pacific Northwest, was obviously a booming industry.

美国的木材经济，尤其是太平洋西北地区的木材经济显然是一个蓬勃发展的行业。

And now the South has a little bit of that, but it’s largely gone from the U.S., and we learned about that and how, the export market for timber is pretty much dead in the United States.

现在南方也有一点这样的情况，但它基本上已经从美国消失了，我们了解到这一点以及美国的木材出口市场几乎已经死寂。

It doesn’t necessarily have to be that way, and I’m over-dramatizing by saying dead, but it’s really struggling, and it has for decades.

事情并不一定一定是这样，我说“死了”有点夸张，但它确实在挣扎，而且已经持续了几十年。

And I think seeing that as it pertains to where do we go as a country from here really matters because this community, I think, was the most developed in terms of adapting to the challenges, and I think could really prove as a success story for where we go from here.

我认为，这关系到我们作为一个国家今后将走向何方，这一点确实很重要，因为我认为，这个社区在适应挑战方面是最发达的，我认为这确实可以证明是我们今后走向何方的成功故事。

Obviously, there’s a lot of work that we learned about that needs to happen still.

显然，我们了解到还有很多工作需要进行。

There’s a lot of challenges that these two communities that we visited are still facing.

我们访问的这两个社区仍然面临着很多挑战。

But their downtowns are still vibrant.

但他们的市中心仍然充满活力。

They still have, you know, economic growth, and they’re trying to figure out how to make the most of the situation that they’re in.

你知道，他们仍然拥有经济增长，并且他们正在试图找出如何充分利用他们所处的情况。

And what I mean by that is they’re trying to figure out how to bring timber back in a sustainable way that meets the environmental needs.

我的意思是，他们正在试图找出如何以可持续的方式恢复木材，以满足环境需求。

They’re trying to figure out how to retrofit manufacturing facilities and old mills to become different types of facilities, maybe for solar energy or for some sort of other process that they could retrofit these places.

他们正在试图弄清楚如何改造制造设施和旧工厂，使其成为不同类型的设施，也许是为了太阳能，或者是为了他们可以改造这些地方的某种其他过程。

And it feels like they are on the cusp of figuring some of these things out.

感觉他们正处于解决其中一些问题的风口浪尖。

So not only is this a place that’s been left behind in a blue state that I think a lot of people wouldn’t realize is even there in the first place and deserves to have that attention.

因此，这不仅是一个被留在蓝色州的地方，我认为很多人一开始都没有意识到它的存在，值得受到关注。

Everyone’s heard about the struggles in Appalachia.

每个人都听说过阿巴拉契亚的挣扎。

I don’t think most Americans have really heard about the struggles in the Pacific Coast of Washington State.

我认为大多数美国人并没有真正听说过华盛顿州太平洋海岸的斗争。

So I think that that’s important.

所以我认为这很重要。

But also, I do think that they’re on a path to figuring these things out, and it was just a remarkable, remarkable story that I’m excited to dive further into.

而且，我确实认为他们正在解决这些问题，这只是一个非凡的、非凡的故事，我很高兴能进一步深入研究。

And, you know, most conversations about rural, and it’s part of the reason I think this Commission is so important, you know, most of those conversations kind of flatten it into one thing, and the peninsula won’t let you do that, and I think that is valuable.

而且，你知道，大多数关于农村的对话，这是我认为该委员会如此重要的部分原因，你知道，大多数对话都将其扁平化为一件事，而半岛不会让你这样做，我认为这是有价值的。

It also captures that sort of central tension of rural economics in a really vivid way.

它还以非常生动的方式捕捉了农村经济的核心张力。

You’re surrounded by extraordinary natural wealth, timber and water and fisheries and beauty, and yet prosperity doesn’t automatically follow from that.

你被非凡的自然财富、木材、水、渔业和美景所包围，但繁荣并不会自动随之而来。

And the question, you know, that the whole country is wrestling with is, how do you turn local assets into good jobs that can actually build a life on?

你知道，整个国家都在努力解决的问题是，如何将当地资产转化为真正可以维持生活的好工作？

And that question’s sort of written all over the landscape on the peninsula.

这个问题在整个半岛上随处可见。

And third, and you heard Benji speak to this, you know, this is an area that’s pulling everybody into the boat, charting a course, and getting folks rowing in the same direction.

第三，你听到本吉谈到这一点，你知道，这是一个将每个人都拉上船、制定路线、让人们朝着同一个方向划船的领域。

I know we’re gonna talk about the Recompete program, but this is a community, this is a region, that was one of five hundred and thirty-five in the country that com-competed for, support from the Economic Development Administration, put forward a plan, got everybody together around the plan, was rewarded one of six implementation grants in the country.

我知道我们要讨论“重新竞争”计划，但这是一个社区，这是一个地区，是全国五百三十五个竞争者之一，在经济发展管理局的支持下，提出了一项计划，让每个人都围绕该计划聚集在一起，并获得了该国六项实施拨款之一。

And, you know, importantly now they’re both bringing resource, you know, seeing resources come to the table and executing.

而且，你知道，重要的是现在他们都带来了资源，你知道，看到资源来到桌面并执行。

Executing on that plan.

执行该计划。

Looking at, you know, what does Timber 2.0 look like?

看看，你就知道，Timber 2.0 是什么样子的？

How do we make sure that we’re providing opportunities in the trades?

我们如何确保我们提供交易机会？

How are we taking advantage of our local assets?

我们如何利用本地资产？

How are we providing opportunities for the next generation of workers?

我们如何为下一代工人提供机会？

Yeah, that’s why it was a great place for the commission to come, to listen, to learn.

是的，这就是为什么它是委员会前来倾听、学习的好地方。

One thing that I guess I will say is still over a great distance.

我想我要说的一件事仍然是遥远的。

It struck me, and I know we—we’re probably not gonna get to places like Montana or Benji, as you mentioned, Wyoming.

这让我震惊，我知道我们——我们可能不会去像蒙大拿州或本吉这样的地方，正如你提到的，怀俄明州。

But it still was a fair distance, right, for us to get from Seattle over to Port Angeles, then over to Forks, and you start to feel that distance pull, like, that you feel in the West versus where we were in the East.

但对我们来说，从西雅图到安吉利斯港，然后到福克斯，这仍然是一段相当长的距离，你开始感觉到这种距离的拉力，就像你在西部和东部的感觉一样。

Like in the Delta, you know, within a couple of hours, we hit six different towns, actually.

就像在三角洲一样，你知道，在几个小时内，我们实际上到达了六个不同的城镇。

.

。

And I, I also think it was interesting to see the impact of the federal government up close.

我也认为近距离观察联邦政府的影响很有趣。

Like, you’ve got this federal footprint.

就像，你有这个联邦足迹。

Right?

正确的？

Derek, you mentioned Olympic National Park, so you’ve got the national park there, but you’ve got military installations, you’ve got the port that’s going over to Canada, so you’ve got customs and things like that.

德里克，你提到了奥林匹克国家公园，所以那里有国家公园，但那里有军事设施，有通往加拿大的港口，所以有海关之类的东西。

And, The diversity was just, I think really, really seen up close and felt.

而且，我认为，这种多样性确实是近距离观察和感受的。

Both of you talked about sort of the communities coming together and trying to pull together, and Derek, you just mentioned Recompete.

你们俩都谈到了社区聚集在一起并试图团结起来，德里克，你刚刚提到了重新竞争。

And so let’s jump into that.

让我们开始吧。

You know, as a congressional member, you you helped sponsor the legislation that became the Recompete Pilot Program out of the CHIPS and Science Act.

您知道，作为一名国会议员，您帮助发起了一项立法，该立法成为《芯片和科学法案》中的“重新竞争试点计划”。

That program, as you were mentioning, you know, was the most popular program ever in the Economic Development Administration’s history.

正如您所提到的，该计划是经济发展管理局历史上最受欢迎的计划。

It was 536 applications for only six implementation grants.

共有 536 份申请，仅获得了 6 项实施补助金。

And those are long-term …well, they’re five-year, but they’re large scale blocks of flexible money, right, going to a local coalition.

这些都是长期的……嗯，它们是五年期的，但它们是大规模的灵活资金，对吧，流向当地联盟。

The region received over 35 million for a five-year period.

该地区在五年内收到了超过 3500 万美元的资金。

Tell us a little bit, like you were involved in putting the legislation together.

告诉我们一些情况，就像您参与了立法一样。

Why that approach and, what were your takeaways from our experience of, like, how is that working?

为什么采用这种方法？您从我们的经验中得到了什么收获，例如，这种方法是如何运作的？

How is that going?

进展如何？

What’s the progress look like now that they’re getting up to about a year and a half, two years into the program?

现在他们已经进入该计划大约一年半、两年了，进展如何？

That’s now a third of the counties in America.

现在这是美国三分之一的县。

Over 50 million people live in communities that are considered distressed.

超过 5000 万人生活在被认为陷入困境的社区中。

And that’s not because of a bad year.

这并不是因为今年表现不佳。

Right?

正确的？

It’s because, you know, they’ve seen economic change, economic disruption, and we haven’t had sufficient policies and programs in place to support those communities.

这是因为，你知道，他们看到了经济变化、经济混乱，而我们没有足够的政策和计划来支持这些社区。

And, you know, the rationale behind Recompete, and part of the reason the Rockefeller Foundation is engaging on the Good Jobs for America program that it has launched, is the notion that we shouldn’t be leaving communities behind, that we should make sure that you’ve got a shot no matter where you live, and that we’re helping people stay connected to work in the face of economic disruption.

而且，你知道，“重新竞争”背后的基本原理，以及洛克菲勒基金会参与其发起的“美国好就业”计划的部分原因，是我们不应该让社区落后，我们应该确保无论你住在哪里，都有机会，并且我们正在帮助人们在面对经济混乱时保持与工作的联系。

So that was the rationale for it.

这就是它的理由。

The approach tried to acknowledge a few things.

该方法试图承认一些事情。

One, that these communities, as I said, it wasn’t a bad year, so a one-off grant, a one-year grant is not sufficient to help a community really make the multi-year investments that are really required in these sort of circumstances.

第一，正如我所说，这些社区今年并不是糟糕的一年，因此一次性拨款、一年期拨款不足以帮助社区真正进行在这种情况下真正需要的多年投资。

Two, most of these communities do not have an army of grant writers, and that’s something that I know the Commission has heard in every stop, that, you know, the challenge of community capacity to navigate what is a exceedingly complex system of federal grants and loans.

第二，这些社区中的大多数没有一支拨款撰写者大军，我知道委员会在每一站都听到了这一点，即社区能力面临的挑战，驾驭极其复杂的联邦拨款和贷款系统。

And Tony, I know you’ve done a lot of work highlighting just how many agencies and just how many programs touch these issues.

托尼，我知道您做了很多工作，强调有多少机构和项目涉及这些问题。

You know, that’s brutal for a community to try to navigate that.

你知道，对于一个试图解决这个问题的社区来说，这是残酷的。

So having, one door to knock on, making the application reasonably simple, and making it, you know, flexible, multi-year, and large enough to meet the greatest needs that a community has seemed important.

因此，拥有一扇可以敲开的门，使应用程序变得相当简单，并且使其灵活、多年且足够大以满足社区的最大需求似乎很重要。

You know, it didn’t look like a typical government program.

你知道，它看起来不像一个典型的政府计划。

I mean, what we saw on the peninsula was that it’s flexible enough to meet some of the real barriers that the community’s grappling with.

我的意思是，我们在半岛上看到的是它足够灵活，可以解决社区正在努力解决的一些真正障碍。

You know, the things that keep people from work on the peninsula are things like childcare and transportation and training that connects to jobs that actually exist.

你知道，在半岛上阻碍人们工作的因素包括儿童保育、交通以及与实际存在的工作相关的培训等。

And so, you know, what you’ve seen is the community come together around multiple streams of work, some more further along than others, but all with the notion that the design is patient and flexible and perhaps most importantly, locally led.

所以，你知道，你所看到的是社区围绕多个工作流聚集在一起，其中一些工作比其他工作更进一步，但所有这些都认为设计是耐心和灵活的，也许最重要的是，由本地主导。

And, so the community’s working on it.

而且，社区正在努力解决这个问题。

I think you’ve seen, some real wins out of the gate.

我想你已经看到了一些真正的胜利。

You know, the local community college, which we visited on the trip, you know, talked about a new mobile trades unit that they had just launched as a consequence of the Recompete funding that they had gotten.

你知道，我们在旅途中参观的当地社区大学谈到了他们刚刚推出的一个新的移动交易部门，这是他们获得 Recompete 资金的结果。

We were able to spend some time with the port and learn about some of the investments that they’re making.

我们在港口花了一些时间，了解他们正在进行的一些投资。

We heard about some of the effort around Timber 2.0.

我们听说了围绕 Timber 2.0 所做的一些努力。

We heard about some of the work around the maritime trades, around the Composite Recycling Technology Center and the innovation that’s happening there.

我们听说了围绕海上贸易、复合材料回收技术中心的一些工作以及那里正在发生的创新。

You know, and so I think the honest measure of Recompete won’t just be what happens on the peninsula or any of the other communities that received awards, but whether it proves a model that works in places that might be otherwise left behind.

你知道，所以我认为，对“重新竞争”的诚实衡量标准不仅仅是半岛或任何其他获奖社区发生的事情，而是它是否证明了一种模式可以在其他可能落后的地方发挥作用。

Like, that’s the bet, that if you provide those sort of flexible multi-year resources and you don’t make it super complicated so a community needs an army of grant writers, if you allow a process to be locally led, they can really do big things.

就像，这就是赌注，如果你提供这种灵活的多年资源，并且不让它变得超级复杂，那么社区需要一支拨款作者大军，如果你允许一个流程由本地领导，他们真的可以做大事。

So, you know, I think it really speaks to the fact that government efficiency, which of course we’ve talked a lot about as a national concept over the last couple years, it hasn’t been carried out in the way that I think any of us would have wanted to, even if we were skeptical of it to begin with, has to happen at some point for rural communities to survive.

所以，你知道，我认为这确实说明了这样一个事实：政府效率，当然我们在过去几年里作为一个国家概念已经谈论了很多，它并没有以我认为我们任何人都希望的方式执行，即使我们一开始对此持怀疑态度，为了农村社区的生存，它必须在某个时候发生。

The tribes brought it up.

部落提出了这个问题。

The timber industry brought it up.

木材工业提出了这个问题。

Even the National Park Service people brought it up.

甚至国家公园管理局的人也提到了这个问题。

Just the complexities of the federal government.

只是联邦政府的复杂性。

But also it wasn’t to say that the federal government isn’t needed, just that the federal government was needed needing to be a little bit more easy to work with.

但这并不是说不需要联邦政府，只是说联邦政府需要更容易合作。

The second thing that I think was an important takeaway was, and this is a little bit different than the Recompete, but it goes to something you said before that, Tony.

我认为重要的第二件事是，这与重赛有点不同，但这与你之前所说的一样，托尼。

The I-5 corridor, which is what connects basically all the urban parts of western Washington, including Bellingham and Seattle all the way down to the Washington border with Oregon and Portland, there was a lot of disdain for that corridor that we heard about.

I-5 走廊基本上连接了华盛顿西部的所有城市地区，包括贝灵厄姆和西雅图，一直到华盛顿与俄勒冈州和波特兰的边界，我们听说过对该走廊有很多蔑视。

Not because they don’t like those towns or those cities, but because that’s where all the attention and philanthropic investment, and even some government investment goes.

不是因为他们不喜欢那些城镇或城市，而是因为所有的关注和慈善投资，甚至一些政府投资都集中在那里。

And I thought that was fascinating.

我认为这很有趣。

That was an important takeaway for me was that you had Democrat elected officials, current state elected officials, talking about how problematic the consolidation of that corridor was.

对我来说，一个重要的收获是，民主党民选官员、现任州民选官员正在谈论巩固该走廊的问题有多大。

And when I lived in Seattle, I always thought that was a kind of right versus left argument, but it goes back to my earlier statement, which was that a lot of rural America, whether they’re left or right, feels like they’ve been left behind by this one corridor that is really where all the population is.

当我住在西雅图时，我一直认为这是一种右翼与左翼的争论，但这又回到了我之前的说法，即美国的许多农村地区，无论他们是左派还是右派，都感觉自己被这条真正是所有人口所在的走廊抛在了后面。

And so it really comes down to the fact that the state and federal government has to do a better job of having more programs for rural America to invest in and to be able to take on.

因此，归根结底，州和联邦政府必须做得更好，为美国农村地区提供更多投资和实施的项目。

Recompete’s an obvious it seemed like success story.

重新竞争显然是一个成功的故事。

I was not there when it was being crafted, and it seemed like from the folks on the ground, a really good opportunity for them to get innovative and to take advantage of something that was there.

制作的时候我并不在场，这似乎是来自当地的人们，这对他们来说是一个很好的机会来进行创新并利用现有的东西。

But there needs to be more of that.

但还需要更多。

And I do think for the next president and the next Congress, and every president and Congress after that, we need to be figuring out innovative ways to get more investment on the ground to these places.

我确实认为，对于下一任总统和下一届国会，以及此后的每一位总统和国会，我们需要找出创新的方法，为这些地方吸引更多的实地投资。

Because like you said, Derek, this is not an accident.

因为就像你说的，德里克，这不是一次意外。

This is not just one year where things went wrong.

这不仅仅是出现问题的一年。

Forks and Port Angeles were actually very geographically sound for a very long time with the industries that were successful at the time that these towns boomed.

实际上，福克斯和安吉利斯港在很长一段时间内地理位置优越，这些城镇繁荣时的工业也很成功。

They’re on the coast.

他们在海岸上。

They had easy ports.

他们有方便的港口。

It was easy to get things in and out.

东西进出都很容易。

But then the world changed and we became, you know, very car-driven, plane-driven economy, and it became harder to have this little peninsula, which was actually very well positioned as kind of the most western part of the United States to get things to Asia and to other parts of Canada and the and the world, became very difficult.

但后来世界发生了变化，我们变成了，你知道的，非常汽车驱动、飞机驱动的经济，这个小半岛变得越来越困难，它实际上处于美国最西部的位置，将货物运往亚洲、加拿大其他地区以及世界各地，变得非常困难。

And it’s been decades of disinvestment from these places, which means that it will take decades of investments in these places to bring these places back.

这些地方的投资已经几十年了，这意味着需要几十年的投资才能把这些地方带回来。

And it will not just be one program that does that.

而且不仅仅是一个程序可以做到这一点。

It will be a concerted effort by the state and federal government to be better beneficiaries to these places that need it, because they’re not going away, and we should invest in them if we’re gonna have a good country going forward.

州和联邦政府将共同​​努力，成为这些需要帮助的地方的更好受益者，因为它们不会消失，如果我们想要一个美好的国家向前发展，我们就应该对它们进行投资。

And that’s, that was a main takeaway from the Recompete was that we need a lot more of that.

也就是说，重赛的主要收获是我们需要更多这样的东西。

And also that philanthropic desert is, I mean, we know that nationally even there’s just disproportionately lower amounts of philanthropic investment, which also can make it difficult, because you don’t have the venture social capital or even the matching grants, for example, that you might need for larger scale investment.

我的意思是，我们知道，在全国范围内，慈善投资的数额也极低，这也可能会让事情变得困难，因为你没有风险社会资本，甚至没有匹配的赠款，例如，你可能需要进行更大规模的投资。

So that definitely, becomes an issue.

所以这肯定会成为一个问题。

Benji, let me ask you, you know, conservation, environmentalism, those are big priorities for you.

Benji，让我问你，你知道，保护、环保，这些对你来说是最重要的优先事项。

We were in a place with a lot of natural resources, a lot of natural beauty.

我们所在的地方拥有丰富的自然资源和自然美景。

What was your takeaway about how that shapes both the local economy, but even the community’s sort of sense of identity and who they are, and the importance of all of that culturally as well as economically?

对于这如何塑造当地经济，甚至社区的身份感和他们是谁，以及所有这些在文化和经济上的重要性，你有什么看法？

And we did hear that from the tribal leaders as well, that, you know, a lot of them are struggling financially, and it’s hard for them to improve the environment with the changing climate, and moving their communities to different places, even in their own tribal nation because of a changing climate, because of a lack of resources.

我们也确实从部落首领那里听说，你知道，他们中的很多人都在经济上陷入困境，他们很难随着气候变化而改善环境，也很难将他们的社区搬到不同的地方，即使是在他们自己的部落国家，因为气候变化，因为缺乏资源。

So it’s kind of this, it’s at the heart of what I think the national environmental conversation needs to be about, which is how do we pair economic growth, how do we ensure economic growth so that we can then invest it back into taking care of the health of our communities from an environmental standpoint?

所以这就是我认为全国环境对话需要讨论的核心问题，即我们如何将经济增长与经济增长相结合，如何确保经济增长，以便我们能够从环境的角度将其重新投入到照顾我们社区的健康上？

I also thought it was fascinating that a couple of leaders, especially on our last day, mentioned that all of the climate laws in the State of Washington and largely in D.C. as well, climate change laws, have been about mitigating future damage.

我还认为令人着迷的是，几位领导人，特别是在我们的最后一天，提到华盛顿州以及主要是华盛顿特区的所有气候法，以及气候变化法，都是为了减轻未来的损害。

And what we heard was that the damage is already happening now, and that there isn’t enough focus on adaptation to the changes.

我们听到的是，损害现在已经发生，而且没有足够的注意力来适应这些变化。

That the rising cost of energy is already there, that the lack of water from snowpack because there’s more rain instead of snow in the winter is already there, that these streams are already losing the wildlife that they need for tribes to sustain the food supply.

能源成本的上涨已经存在，积雪缺乏水源已经存在，因为冬季雨水多而不是雪，这些溪流已经失去了部落维持食物供应所需的野生动物。

That instead of focusing on EV mandates or stopping building new building mandates, we need to be focusing on how do we adapt to the changing climate.

我们需要关注如何适应不断变化的气候，而不是专注于电动汽车指令或停止建设新的建筑指令。

So those were kind of the two main threads that I picked up was that we need active conservation, and conservation meaning we’re actively managing the land, but also having enough economic growth to invest in that management, and that these changes are already there.

因此，我提出的两个主要线索是，我们需要积极的保护，而保护意味着我们正在积极管理土地，但也有足够的经济增长来投资于这种管理，而且这些变化已经存在。

It’s made the job harder for the tribes.

这让部落的工作变得更加困难。

It’s made the job harder for the national parks.

这让国家公园的工作变得更加困难。

It’s made the job harder for the locals.

这让当地人的工作变得更加困难。

And they have so much pride in it, but they want to be able to do something about it and not just put in more EV chargers, and say that that will solve all their problems.

他们对此非常自豪，但他们希望能够为此做点什么，而不仅仅是安装更多电动汽车充电器，并表示这将解决他们所有的问题。

So I thought that that was a very interesting, dichotomy that we heard throughout the trip and, uh…

所以我认为这是我们在整个旅行中听到的一个非常有趣的二分法，呃……

But at the end of the day, I think what we’ve also learned about the whole country is that everyone is proud of their local environment.

但归根结底，我认为我们从整个国家了解到，每个人都为自己当地的环境感到自豪。

The folks in Kentucky were so proud of their local environment and how beautiful it was.

肯塔基州的人们对当地的环境及其美丽感到非常自豪。

So that’s something that I think is true everywhere, which really speaks to the fact that this should be a unifying topic for America to invest in these places, because when you’re investing in your home, you’re also investing in your environment, and that is something that I think we’ve forgotten about from a national discourse perspective.

所以我认为这在任何地方都是如此，这确实说明了这样一个事实：这应该成为美国在这些地方投资的统一主题，因为当你投资你的家园时，你也在投资你的环境，而我认为从国家话语的角度来看，我们已经忘记了这一点。

In some instances, they carry these challenges more acutely.

在某些情况下，他们更强烈地应对这些挑战。

So, you know, when we talk about whether it’s health outcomes or economic opportunity or economic distress, when we talk about chronic underinvestment, when we talk about, you know, some of these persistent challenges, I think you can’t be serious about addressing these challenges if you don’t, you know, if you treat tribal nations as a footnote.

所以，你知道，当我们谈论健康结果、经济机会或经济困境时，当我们谈论长期投资不足时，当我们谈论其中一些持续存在的挑战时，我认为如果你不把部落国家当作脚注，你就不能认真应对这些挑战。

Right?

正确的？

If you don’t adequately listen to the, you know, the people who’ve been in the region longest, and in some circumstances have grappled with some of these challenges the longest.

如果你没有充分倾听那些在该地区生活时间最长的人的意见，并且在某些情况下，他们应对其中一些挑战的时间最长。

I want to pick up on some of what Benji talked about.

我想了解一下 Benji 谈到的一些内容。

You know, the unique stories that we heard And the things that, you know, I sort of carried home with me were some of the stories related to climate resilience.

你知道，我们听到的独特故事，你知道，我带回家的东西是一些与气候适应力有关的故事。

You know, some of the tribes are right on the coast, you know, which means they’re right on the front line of sea level rise.

你知道，有些部落就在海岸上，这意味着他们就在海平面上升的前线。

They’re right on the front line of tsunami risk.

他们正处于海啸风险的前线。

We heard from leaders of the Quileute Nation where their tribal school, you know, literally any one of us could stand outside their tribal school, throw a rock, and land it in the Pacific Ocean.

我们从奎鲁特民族的领导人那里听说，他们的部落学校，你知道，我们中的任何一个人都可以站在他们的部落学校外面，扔一块石头，然后把它扔进太平洋。

And, you know, they get a strong storm and, you know, as they shared, their school floods.

而且，你知道，他们遭遇了一场强烈的风暴，正如他们所分享的，他们的学校被洪水淹没了。

And so, they talked about, you know, their effort to move their village to higher ground, to build a new school at higher ground, and some of the challenges of that, which, you know, I think most people don’t think about in their day-to-day.

因此，他们谈到了他们将村庄搬到地势较高的地方、在地势较高的地方建造一所新学校的努力，以及其中的一些挑战，我认为大多数人在日常生活中都没有考虑到这些挑战。

Right?

正确的？

Like, how do you move a village?

比如，如何移动一个村庄？

You don’t start with the building because the building needs electricity, and the building needs water, and it needs sewer, and it needs, you know, all of these basic utilities.

你不是从建筑物开始，因为建筑物需要电力，建筑物需要水，需要下水道，而且它需要，你知道，所有这些基本公用设施。

And so that’s tough.

所以这很难。

You know, and then they talked about some of the challenges related to, you know, navigating federal programs and federal systems that don’t always talk to each other.

你知道，然后他们谈到了一些与联邦计划和联邦系统相关的挑战，这些挑战并不总是相互沟通。

One of the tribes shared the story of building a a fire station that when it was built, didn’t have water to the facility, and what they had was surplus body bags from the federal government.

其中一个部落分享了建造消防站的故事，消防站建成时，设施没有水，他们拥有的只是联邦政府多余的裹尸袋。

And, you know, that’s the type of harsh reality and resilience challenge some of these communities are facing.

而且，你知道，这就是其中一些社区面临的严酷现实和复原力挑战。

So I think to answer your question, I think a couple of the things I’d ask the Commission to hold onto, and first is sovereignty.

因此，我想回答你的问题，我认为我要求委员会保留一些事情，首先是主权。

Right?

正确的？

Tribal nations aren’t a subcategory of rural stakeholders.

部落国家不是农村利益相关者的子类别。

They’re governments, with their own authorities, with their own priorities, and they can’t …

他们是政府，有自己的权力，有自己的优先事项，但他们不能……

the, you know, the posture can’t be, “Here’s what we’re gonna do for you.” It has to be, “What are you already building, and how do we invest in it and get out of the way in some circumstance?”

你知道，姿势不能是“这就是我们要为你做的”。它必须是，“你已经在建造什么，我们如何投资它并在某些情况下摆脱困境？”

And second, I think what we saw on the peninsula is just how interwoven everything is.

其次，我认为我们在半岛上看到的一切都是相互交织的。

The same coastline, the same fisheries, the same workforce, the same climate risk.

相同的海岸线、相同的渔业、相同的劳动力、相同的气候风险。

You can’t do rural economic development on the peninsula as if the tribes are a separate file.

半岛上的农村经济发展不能把部落当成一个单独的档案来发展。

Right?

正确的？

Like, you can’t talk about, the region’s climate resilience without the tribal communities at the center of it.

就像，如果没有部落社区作为中心，你就无法谈论该地区的气候适应能力。