Why girls in marginalized contexts? A commitment to justice and agency in research

Early Childhood Education Education Access & Equity Education Policy Global Education K-12 Education

幼儿教育 教育机会与公平 教育政策 全球教育 K-12 教育

In this second episode of Embedding Equality in Education , hosts Jenn O’Donoghue and Edem Ossai explore why the Learning and Action Alliance for Girls’ Agency (LAAGA) chose to do research with girls in marginalized contexts.

在《将平等融入教育》的第二集中，主持人 Jenn O’Donoghue 和 Edem Ossai 探讨了为什么女孩机构学习与行动联盟 (LAAGA) 选择对边缘化背景下的女孩进行研究。

Drawing on voices from LAAGA researchers and girls themselves, they unpack how marginalization is shaped by shifting social, economic, and environmental systems, from poverty and early marriage to gender-based violence and climate change and why understanding these dynamics requires centering the perspectives of those most affected.

他们借鉴了 LAAGA 研究人员和女孩本身的声音，揭示了社会、经济和环境系统的转变如何影响边缘化，从贫困和早婚到性别暴力和气候变化，以及为什么理解这些动态需要以受影响最严重的人的观点为中心。

The conversation also challenges common language in the field, like “vulnerable” or “empowerment,” and makes the case for participatory research that engages girls as co-constructors of knowledge rather than subjects of study.

这次对话还挑战了该领域的通用语言，例如“弱势”或“赋权”，并为参与式研究提供了理由，让女孩作为知识的共同构建者而不是研究对象。

O’DONOGHUE: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Embedding Equality in Education , or the 3Es podcast.

奥多诺休：大家好，欢迎回到教育中嵌入平等，或 3Es 播客。

My name is Jennifer O’Donoghue, and I am a senior fellow and deputy director of the Center for Universal Education at Brookings.

我叫詹妮弗·奥多诺霍，是布鲁金斯学会普及教育中心的高级研究员兼副主任。

This is our second episode of the 3Es podcast, and really this is being created as a space to share the work that we are doing on gender equality in and through education here at Brookings and with a network of colleagues around the world.

这是我们 3Es 播客的第二集，实际上，这是一个空间，旨在分享我们在布鲁金斯学会的教育中以及通过教育所做的性别平等工作，​​并与世界各地的同事网络分享。

So we will be sharing research, stories of progress, stories of impact, really digging into how can we advance gender equality in and through education, how can we change outcomes and opportunities for young people around the world.

因此，我们将分享研究成果、进步故事、影响故事，真正深入探讨如何在教育中并通过教育促进性别平等，如何改变世界各地年轻人的成果和机会。

And joining me on this first season as co-host is my dear colleague, Edem, and I will pass to her to tell you more about this season and and this episode.

与我一起参与第一季的还有我亲爱的同事 Edem，我将向她介绍有关本季和这一集的更多信息。

And I’m super excited to be back again with Jenn on a second episode.

我非常高兴能再次与 Jenn 一起出演第二集。

And this time around, we’re going to be focusing on another important topic to LAAGA.

这一次，我们将关注 LAAGA 的另一个重要主题。

We’ll be diving deeper into why we made the decision to work with girls, especially girls in marginalized contexts.

我们将更深入地探讨为什么我们决定与女孩合作，尤其是边缘化环境中的女孩。

So maybe let’s, you know, strike home from there.

所以也许让我们从那里开始吧。

Jenn, why did we decide to work with girls in marginalized contexts?

Jenn，为什么我们决定与边缘化环境中的女孩一起工作？

O’DONOGHUE: Thank you, Edem.

奥多诺休： 谢谢你，埃德姆。

You know, I think in the last episode we talked about really unpacking this term agency and and how LAAGA, you know, when we got together in in May of 2022, we we first wanted to really think about and take a critical look at, like, what is this word agency and what does this mean?

你知道，我想在上一集中我们谈到了如何真正解开代理这个词，以及 LAAGA，你知道，当我们在 2022 年 5 月聚在一起时，我们首先想要真正思考并批判性地审视一下，比如，代理这个词是什么？它是什么意思？

And, you know, in those same conversations we started to to unpack this word “girls.” Right?

而且，你知道，在同样的对话中，我们开始解开“女孩”这个词。正确的？

We were focused on girls’ agency.

我们专注于女孩的代理。

And so, you know, we said, “Which girls are we talking about?” Like, understanding girlhood is not a universal experience, and it really varies in many different ways.

所以，你知道，我们说，“我们在谈论哪些女孩？”就像，理解少女时代并不是一种普遍的经历，它确实有很多不同的方面。

So what do we mean by girls, and who are we talking about?

那么我们所说的女孩是什么意思，我们在谈论谁？

And, you know, I think within that we really brought this shared commitment, it’s an ethical commitment, I would say, to to justice and really thinking about education for justice and and gender equality as part of that project.

而且，你知道，我认为我们确实做出了这一共同承诺，我想说，这是对正义的道德承诺，并真正考虑将正义教育和性别平等作为该项目的一部分。

And so if we are going to be doing justice oriented work, we wanted to ensure that we were really working with people who were excluded.

因此，如果我们要做以正义为导向的工作，我们希望确保我们真正与那些被排除在外的人一起工作。

Right?

正确的？

Who were left out of of experiences and opportunities, and resources and and things like that.

他们被排除在经验、机会、资源等类似的东西之外。

And so I think for us from the beginning, you know, it was that conversation of who are the most excluded young people?

所以我认为从一开始我们就在讨论谁是最受排斥的年轻人？

And then, you know, moving into, into that space and and we unpacked that in the beginning.

然后，你知道，进入那个空间，我们一开始就把它拆开。

But, you know, I think this piece around around marginalization and exclusion also was an opportunity for us to really look at and take a critical look at some of the words that are commonly used in work around girls’ education and girls’ agency in particular, and words like “empowerment,” words like “vulnerable young people,” and things like that.

但是，你知道，我认为这篇关于边缘化和排斥的文章也是一个机会，让我们能够真正审视并批判性地审视一些在女童教育和特别是女童机构工作中常用的词语，比如“赋权”、“弱势年轻人”等词语。

So let’s hear from our colleague Arundhati Gupta about what it means for her to focus on marginalization in our work in LAAGA.

那么，让我们听听我们的同事 Arundhati Gupta 的讲述，她在 LAAGA 的工作中关注边缘化问题意味着什么。

And then going into that space and discovering that girls cannot be looked at as a monolith.

然后进入那个空间，发现女孩不能被视为一个整体。

You know, girls are diverse.

你知道，女孩子的性格是多种多样的。

And the different contexts, you know, reveal different forms of exclusion.

你知道，不同的背景揭示了不同形式的排斥。

And so just understanding the intentionality behind the word “inclusion” took us on, you know, a a journey to the fringes, really.

因此，只要理解“包容”这个词背后的意图，我们就踏上了一段走向边缘的旅程，真的。

Everybody who is not considered main in any context, you know, but is sidelined or kept in the margins.

你知道，每个人在任何情况下都不被认为是主要人物，而是被边缘化或处于边缘。

We began to see different pictures and, you know, we saw how marginalization also shifts over time.

我们开始看到不同的情况，你知道，我们看到边缘化是如何随着时间的推移而变化的。

It shifts, you know, also depending on social phenomena occurring.

你知道，它的变化也取决于发生的社会现象。

Conflict, for instance, presents different pictures of marginalization, climate experiences, poverty obviously.

例如，冲突显然呈现出边缘化、气候经历和贫困的不同景象。

You know, even now in the context of digital access, when we think about technologies today and what that means and what the picture therefore begins to evolve into and look like for girls, also began to present different pictures and and and scenarios for us.

你知道，即使现在在数字访问的背景下，当我们思考当今的技术及其意味着什么以及图片因此开始演变为女孩的样子时，也开始为我们呈现不同的图片和场景。

And just being intentional helped us to begin to see more of these images of who the marginalized girl is.

仅仅有意识地帮助我们开始更多地看到这些边缘女孩的形象。

But I think our focus on her or why we decided to work with these kinds of girls was because we wanted to understand from a very practical, lived sort of lens, you know, what their realities are like.

但我认为我们对她的关注或者我们决定与这类女孩合作的原因是因为我们想从一个非常实际的、生活的角度来了解她们的现实是什么样的。

And no one’s better able to share, you know, their lived experiences than the individual herself.

你知道，没有人比个人更能分享他们的生活经历。

And and that’s why, you know, girls had to be centered.

这就是为什么，你知道，女孩必须以中心为中心。

It brought us back to the whole conversation about even agency and why we centered girls and why therefore we had to center the marginalized girl, because she was in a better position to help us understand her reality.

它让我们回到了关于甚至代理的整个对话，以及为什么我们以女孩为中心，以及为什么我们必须以边缘化女孩为中心，因为她能够更好地帮助我们理解她的现实。

And so that’s why LAAGA has really, you know, been very intentional about this focus, so to speak.

可以这么说，这就是为什么 LAAGA 确实非常有意地关注这一焦点。

O’DONOGHUE: Yeah.

奥多诺休：是的。

Thank you.

谢谢。

And you you mentioned, you know, that no one is better placed for us to understand and to help us understand how that marginalization is lived and what that looks like than the girls themselves.

你提到，你知道，没有人比女孩本身更适合我们理解和帮助我们理解这种边缘化是如何生活的以及它是什么样子的。

So, our colleague, Nasrin Siddiqa, in Bangladesh, you know, has really been working at this intersection of education and poverty and gender and climate change.

所以，我们在孟加拉国的同事纳斯林·西迪卡（Nasrin Siddiqa）一直致力于解决教育与贫困、性别和气候变化的交叉问题。

So, let’s hear a bit more from her about what marginalization looks like in that context.

那么，让我们听听她更多地讲述在这种情况下边缘化是什么样子的。

O’DONOGHUE: Let’s hear from a girl in Nigeria who talks about early motherhood and its impacts.

奥多诺休：让我们听听一位尼日利亚女孩讲述早期母亲及其影响。

O’DONOGHUE: You know, I think that what we heard from the girls, again, is a reminder to us of the sort of multidimensional nature of of marginalizing systems and structures and factors, how those are dynamic and those change over time, and and how those are really lived by people.

奥多诺霍：我认为我们从女孩那里听到的再次提醒我们边缘化系统、结构和因素的多维性质，它们是如何动态的，如何随着时间的推移而变化，以及人们如何真正生活。

And, you know, as we moved into this work, and thinking about ourselves as a research collective, right, it became really important for us to think about the ways in which research itself can marginalize young people, and a sort of history and many traditions, right, within research.

而且，你知道，当我们开始这项工作时，并把自己视为一个研究集体，对我们来说，思考研究本身如何边缘化年轻人，以及研究中的某种历史和许多传统，对我们来说非常重要。

This is, of course, not all research.

当然，这并不是所有研究。

But, you know, some research that doesn’t center the, like, lived experiences of young people, that is not participatory, that doesn’t bring young people into that process of naming these systems and structures, of identifying what are the barriers of thinking about the solutions, and that, you know, that research process itself can really be an experience of marginalization for for many young people.

但是，你知道，有些研究并不以年轻人的生活经历为中心，不是参与性的，没有让年轻人参与命名这些系统和结构的过程，也没有让年轻人参与到思考解决方案的障碍是什么的过程中，而且，你知道，研究过程本身对于许多年轻人来说确实是一种边缘化的经历。

And we also have a a quote here, a clip from another girl in Nigeria about some of the factors in her context that constrain agency.

我们这里还引用了另一位尼日利亚女孩的片段，讲述了她所处的环境中限制能动性的一些因素。

And also, we found that school exclusion was something that was very rife in the Zvishavane province in Zimbabwe, as 14% of girls in that province in Zimbabwe were found to finish upper secondary school.

此外，我们还发现津巴布韦兹维沙瓦内省的学校排斥现象非常普遍，津巴布韦该省有 14% 的女孩完成了高中学业。

O’DONOGHUE: Yeah, and, you know, in addition to some of those factors, which definitely are are really excluding girls from exercising their rights in many ways, we found across contexts that gender-based violence was a huge factor.

奥多诺霍：是的，而且，你知道，除了其中一些因素（这些因素肯定确实在许多方面确实阻碍了女孩行使自己的权利）之外，我们发现在各种情况下，基于性别的暴力是一个重要因素。

Just to give an example, in the Karamoja region along the border of Kenya and Uganda, only about one in 10 girls are in secondary school, and sexual violence is heavily linked to school leaving and and girls not being able to continue in school.

举个例子，在肯尼亚和乌干达边境的卡拉莫贾地区，只有大约十分之一的女孩在中学就读，性暴力与辍学和女孩无法继续上学密切相关。

In South Punjab, in Pakistan, we found that the unpaid care burden, which girls across the world are experiencing, but there in that context, you know, we found that it was really the rural girls, that rural girls were three times more likely to be out of school due to care and domestic work responsibilities.

在巴基斯坦的南旁遮普邦，我们发现世界各地的女孩都在经历无偿照料负担，但在这种情况下，我们发现实际上是农村女孩，农村女孩因照料和家务责任而失学的可能性是其他女孩的三倍。

And then finally, climate crisis and, you know, this is something that we have growing understanding of, of the gendered impacts of climate crisis.

最后，气候危机，我们对气候危机对性别的影响越来越了解。

But in our work in Feni, in Bangladesh, we really saw that the way that that climate change events and sort of the impact of climate change has really collapsed family incomes, pushed girls out of school, into early marriages.

但在孟加拉国费尼的工作中，我们确实看到气候变化事件和气候变化的影响确实导致家庭收入崩溃，迫使女孩辍学、早婚。

And so, the climate crisis itself became another one of these factors that girls talked about that marginalized them and their communities.

因此，气候危机本身成为女孩们谈论的使她们及其社区边缘化的另一个因素。

And apart from even failure to create these participatory methods that, you know, LAAGA has been intentional to generate or develop or co-develop and co-author with girls, it’s also interesting how ironically even efforts to protect girls; for instance, when I think about ethical requirements and how in wanting to protect the anonymity and the confidentiality of girls, we inadvertently also exclude girls from participating in, you know, the kinds of dialogues that provide a lot of sense-making around the experiences that that they live through every day, and forces them into just being subjects from which we derive information rather than allowing, you know, them to be participatory and reflecting on the meanings of these experiences and also, you know, putting out, what they desire as better alternatives.

除了未能创造出这些参与性方法之外，你知道，LAAGA 一直有意与女孩一起创造或开发或共同开发和共同创作，有趣的是，即使是为了保护女孩而做出的努力也是如此；例如，当我想到道德要求以及如何保护女孩的匿名性和机密性时，我们无意中也将女孩排除在参与对话之外，这些对话为她们每天所经历的经历提供了很多意义，并迫使她们成为我们从中获取信息的主体，而不是允许她们参与并反思这些经历的意义，也让她们更好地表达自己的愿望替代方案。

And and that’s something that LAAGA is very intentional about, you know, departing from, which is why many of our research methods not only center the girls but also reflect with the girls.

这是 LAAGA 非常有意要背离的事情，这就是为什么我们的许多研究方法不仅以女孩为中心，而且还反映了女孩的情况。

We do a lot of, you know, group reflective activities, peer reflective, peer, you know, discussion activities, all of which aim to make sense of the experience, you know, with the girls.

我们做了很多，你知道的，团体反思活动，同伴反思，同伴，你知道，讨论活动，所有这些都是为了让女孩们的经历变得有意义。

And even moving from there also help the girls articulate, or amplify the girls’ voices in terms of what they want, what they desire.

即使从那里开始，也可以帮助女孩们表达或放大女孩们想要什么、渴望什么的声音。

And basically expand agentic opportunities for the girls.

并从根本上扩大了女孩们的代理机会。

So I think, yeah, the Feni example really paints this picture of how the community, the family structures, the school structures, the norms, the laws, all working together, reinforce girls’ exclusions in the sidelines.

所以我认为，是的，芬尼的例子确实描绘了这样一幅图画：社区、家庭结构、学校结构、规范、法律，所有这些共同作用，加强了女孩在场外的排斥。

O’DONOGHUE: And you know, I think that one of the key things that we understood in some sense in our sort of choice of this marginalization framing, but really came to understand in a much deeper way with the girls and communities was how these systems shift and how they are dynamic, and the importance of creating space for the people who are most impacted by them to name them themselves.

奥多诺霍：我认为，在选择这种边缘化框架时，我们在某种意义上理解了关键的事情之一，但真正以更深入的方式理解了女孩和社区，那就是这些系统如何转变以及它们如何动态，以及为受其影响最大的人创造空间来命名它们的重要性。

Right?

正确的？

And so, you know, you mentioned this, that we are not naming those systems.

所以，你知道，你提到了这一点，我们不会命名这些系统。

So, like, we didn’t want to go into our research and say, “These are the things that exclude you,” or, “These are the things that hold you back,” but rather to really start by asking girls themselves, like, ” Tell us about your experience.”

所以，就像，我们不想在研究中说，“这些是排除你的事情，”或者，“这些是阻碍你的事情，”而是真正从询问女孩自己开始，比如，“告诉我们你的经历。”

And then to have them name that, and name that with one another, as you said, through doing some of that sort of peer conversations and reflection together.

然后让他们说出这个名字，并像你说的那样，通过进行一些类似的同伴对话和共同反思来互相说出这个名字。

And, you know, really thinking of the ways in which those conversations and that research done with girls really revealed not just the systems that marginalize, but how the systems operate and how they come to play in the everyday decisions that girls are making, the ways in which these systems interact with norms, and and different sort of situational and contextual factors, and what that means.

而且，你知道，认真思考这些对话和对女孩进行的研究不仅揭示了边缘化的系统，还揭示了这些系统如何运作以及它们如何在女孩做出的日常决策中发挥作用，这些系统与规范相互作用的方式，以及不同类型的情境和背景因素，以及这意味着什么。

And I think, for that, maybe we can go to our colleague, Joyce Kinyanjui in Kenya, who led our research with the girls there in the Karamoja.

我想，为此，也许我们可以去找我们在肯尼亚的同事乔伊斯·金扬朱伊 (Joyce Kinyanjui)，他领导了我们对卡拉莫贾女孩的研究。

O’DONOGHUE: So let’s hear from a girl in the Karamoja region, again, this is on the border of Kenya and Uganda.

奥多诺休：让我们听听卡拉莫贾地区一位女孩的来信，这里位于肯尼亚和乌干达的边境。

GIRL in KARAMOJA: I can say this LAAGA Club, it has really helped me a lot.

KARAMOJA 的女孩：我可以说这个 LAAGA 俱乐部，它确实对我帮助很大。

Because I can actually say I was not that much courageous to stand in front of people and speak up.

因为我其实可以说我没有那么大的勇气站在人们面前发声。

And even sometimes I was not able to stand and to go to someone and tell the person my problems.

甚至有时我无法站起来去找某人并告诉他我的问题。

But now I can …

但现在我可以……

I’m able to speak up my problems and identify my issues.

我能够说出我的问题并找出我的问题。

We know that, you know, norms and laws and and families and communities often interact and basically it affect girls’ lives.

我们知道，规范和法律以及家庭和社区经常相互作用，基本上影响着女孩的生活。

But hearing it in this way helps us to see in a very practical and relatable way how the systems are at work.

但以这种方式聆听可以帮助我们以非常实用且相关的方式了解系统是如何工作的。

The girls have painted the full picture, and from listening to them, you can see the interaction of the structural, the systemic.

女孩们描绘了全貌，从她们的讲述中，你可以看到结构性、系统性的相互作用。

You can see the cultural.

你可以看到文化。

You know, all of these things make it clear how systems operate in everyday decisions.

您知道，所有这些都清楚地表明了系统在日常决策中的运作方式。

How, how far-reaching norms can be in confining or constraining girls in exercising their everyday agency.

规范如何限制或约束女孩行使日常能动性，影响有多大。

So I think going to girls is, is really a powerful way to learn more and understand things in a much more lived way.

所以我认为去女孩那里确实是一种以更生动的方式学习更多和理解事物的有效方式。

I think the girls have advocated strongly for for this point.

我认为女孩们对于这一点已经大力提倡了。

O’DONOGHUE: Yeah.

奥多诺休：是的。

You know, when I think about this question of of of why girls in marginalized contexts, which I think we have been talking about as this, you know, this commitment to justice, this commitment to understand systems that are excluding people, this this commitment to do that work with people who are excluded.

你知道，当我想到“为什么女孩处于边缘化背景”这个问题时，我认为我们一直在谈论这个，你知道，对正义的承诺，对理解排斥他人的制度的承诺，对与被排斥的人一起工作的承诺。

You know, I think for us that is is foundational.

你知道，我认为这对我们来说是基础。

And when I say us, I mean for LAAGA, right, and and the Learning Action Alliance for Girls Agency.

当我说我们时，我指的是 LAAGA（对），以及女孩机构学习行动联盟。

That framing has really been foundational to us because it meant not only which girls did we want to engage in the work, but how we were going to engage the girls in the work.

这个框架对我们来说确实是基础，因为它不仅意味着我们想让哪些女孩参与这项工作，还意味着我们将如何让女孩参与工作。

And and we’ve started to talk about some of those participatory methods.

我们已经开始讨论其中一些参与方法。

But, you know, again, this was really for the collective of us, both a natural extension of sort of our past experiences, our past values and commitments, this sort of shared commitment that we had across the network to do the research in ways that would be about agency itself.

但是，你知道，这确实是为了我们集体，既是我们过去的经验、我们过去的价值观和承诺的自然延伸，也是我们在整个网络上以与代理本身有关的方式进行研究的共同承诺。

And I remember from the early days in LAAGA, we started saying that we wanted to research with agency, for agency, and about agency.

我记得从 LAAGA 成立之初，我们就开始说我们想要与代理机构一起进行研究，为代理机构进行研究，以及关于代理机构的研究。

And I know often things can become sort of a preposition soup, but each one of those prepositions, right, is important to us and and we wanted to research with agency.

我知道事情常常会变成一种介词汤，但这些介词中的每一个对我们来说都很重要，我们想与机构进行研究。

Right?

正确的？

That that meant that we wanted to, through the process itself, create opportunities for all of us, the researchers, the co-researchers, young people, to express our agency and exercise our agency in the research process.

这意味着我们希望通过整个过程本身，为我们所有人、研究人员、联合研究人员、年轻人创造机会，在研究过程中表达我们的能动性并行使我们的能动性。

We wanted to research for agency, so we wanted that to be about ensuring that we were, you know, expanding the space for future agency through the research process.

我们想要对代理进行研究，所以我们希望确保我们通过研究过程扩大未来代理的空间。

And we wanted to research about agency, so we wanted to really learn and understand what that meant.

我们想研究代理，所以我们想真正学习和理解这意味着什么。

And so I think again, you know, bringing that focus on on marginalization, as people who have been excluded, who often experience serious constraints on their agency, and a research process itself that really was about removing barriers, expanding space, and understanding the structural and the systemic change that needs to happen if we are are really going to live in a world where all of us can more fully exercise our agency.

所以我再次想到，你知道，把重点放在边缘化上，因为那些被排除在外的人，他们的能动性经常受到严重限制，而研究过程本身实际上是为了消除障碍，扩大空间，并理解如果我们真的要生活在一个我们所有人都可以更充分地行使我们的能动性的世界中，就需要发生结构性和系统性的变化。

Our method is not to study girls, but to engage with them, you know.

你知道，我们的方法不是研究女孩，而是与她们接触。

So this is a kind of shift in research to say, we understand that research could have a an oxymoronic effect or paradoxical effect of marginalizing people by just seeking to study them.

因此，这是研究的一种转变，我们知道，研究可能会产生一种矛盾效应或自相矛盾的效应，即仅仅试图研究人们就将其边缘化。

You tend to, you know, isolate them, put them on this pedestal where you just want to observe them.

你知道，你倾向于孤立它们，将它们放在你只想观察它们的基座上。

But if we create methods that allow us to engage with people, then you discover that they’re not, you know, as vulnerable as you think.

但如果我们创造出能够与人们互动的方法，那么你就会发现他们并不像你想象的那么脆弱。

They’re exercising agency.

他们正在行使代理权。

Our focus is on involving girls in constructing knowledge, you know, interpreting experiences and sharing their perspectives.

我们的重点是让女孩参与构建知识、解释经验并分享她们的观点。

So while research traditionally in the past would have gone to just, you know, ask them a couple of questions and taking it out into a different environment and sat together with a bunch of researchers saying, “Let’s analyze this,” we sit with the girls, you know, under these methods to also interpret the information, make sense of that experience that you just shared, and then what perspectives, you know, come out of that.

因此，虽然过去的研究传统上只是问她们几个问题，然后将其带到不同的环境中，然后与一群研究人员坐在一起说，“让我们分析一下”，但我们和女孩们坐在一起，你知道，在这些方法下也解释信息，理解你刚刚分享的经历，然后从中得出什么观点。

And as a result, we move from research to action all through that method.

结果，我们通过这种方法从研究转向行动。

So I think it’s it’s really interesting and it’s worth emphasizing that research for us it’s about impact.

所以我认为这真的很有趣，值得强调的是，对我们来说，研究是关于影响的。

And it’s not just impact today, it’s sustained impact, and that’s why we recognize that marginalization changes over time.

这不仅是当今的影响，而且是持续的影响，这就是为什么我们认识到边缘化随着时间的推移而变化。

And so we keep returning back to girls in these contexts to say, what’s happening in your world?

因此，我们不断地回到这些背景下的女孩身上，问她们，你们的世界正在发生什么？

And that’s why there’s such emphasis for us on group-based reflections, peer learning, you know, and shared problem-solving.

这就是为什么我们如此强调基于小组的反思、同伴学习和共同解决问题。

I’m not sure of many methods in research that will work with the individuals that we’re learning from to say, “How would you imagine a better future for yourself.” Right?

我不确定研究中是否有很多方法适用于我们正在学习的人说“你会如何为自己想象一个更好的未来”。正确的？

But under our participatory methods, we’re sharing problem-solving.

但在我们的参与方法下，我们正在分享解决问题的方法。

So I think it really grounds our method of really distributing the power back to the girls, and that’s really critical for this method.

所以我认为这确实为我们将权力真正分配给女孩的方法奠定了基础，这对于这种方法来说非常关键。

It’s, you know, being willing to relinquish that power as a researcher and being, you know, very intentional about providing multiple entry points through which girls can express themselves and appreciate the world in which they live in and communicate that to, you know, others around them.

你知道，愿意放弃作为研究人员的权力，并且非常有意识地提供多个切入点，通过这些切入点，女孩可以表达自己，欣赏她们所生活的世界，并将其传达给周围的其他人。

So I mean, for me, it’s been really great really delving into marginalization and and I I think for me, my core message would be, inclusion is a justice, it’s founded on justice, and we mustn’t ever lose sight of that.

所以我的意思是，对我来说，深入研究边缘化真的很棒，我认为对我来说，我的核心信息是，包容是一种正义，它建立在正义的基础上，我们永远不能忽视这一点。

And if we’re thinking about justice, then, you know, you’re going to be creative about how best to accomplish that through research.

如果我们考虑正义，那么，你知道，你就会在如何通过研究最好地实现这一目标方面发挥创造力。

O’DONOGHUE: Yeah.

奥多诺休：是的。

And you know, I think, you brought up the point that that LAAGA was not just a learning alliance, but it was an action alliance.

我想，您提出的观点是，LAAGA 不仅仅是一个学习联盟，而且是一个行动联盟。

And so thinking of, you know, how were we trying, again, from from our beginnings, right?

所以想想，你知道，我们从一开始就如何尝试，对吗？

So, like, often we as researchers, we might think about the research that we want to do, and we do that research, and then later we think about the type of impact that we want to have.

因此，就像我们作为研究人员一样，我们可能会考虑我们想要做的研究，然后我们进行研究，然后我们会考虑我们想要产生的影响类型。

But I think for us, and this was one of the strengths of working as a collective, right?

但我认为对我们来说，这是作为一个集体工作的优势之一，对吧？

In our collective of 25 people, we really had folks who were more academic-type researchers.

在我们 25 个人的集体中，确实有人是学术型研究人员。

We had people who were practitioners, people who were educators, people who work in policy spaces.

我们有实践者、教育者、政策领域的工作人员。

And so it was coming together to remind ourselves, right, that okay, yeah, while we’re thinking about and designing the research, we also need to be already thinking about the impact and how that research is going to be brought into impact.

因此，我们聚集在一起提醒自己，好吧，是的，在我们思考和设计研究的同时，我们还需要考虑影响以及研究将如何产生影响。

And, again, when we when we think about the marginalization framing and this move away from language like vulnerable or empowering, that’s also about impact.

而且，当我们思考边缘化框架以及远离脆弱或赋权等语言时，这也与影响有关。

Right?

正确的？

That’s how we how we do research with people, but it’s also about how we think about how impact happens.

这就是我们如何与人进行研究的方式，但这也关系到我们如何思考影响如何发生。

Because when we think about vulnerability, like, what is the policy or the practice response to vulnerability.

因为当我们考虑脆弱性时，比如针对脆弱性的政策或实践应对措施是什么。

Right?

正确的？

It’s like, let me save you.

就像，让我来拯救你。

Let me try to do something, right?

让我尝试做点什么吧？

And when we think about empowerment, right, the action is some external person who will come and to give you power.

当我们考虑赋权时，对吧，行动就是一些外部的人会来给你权力。

Right?

正确的？

So I think for us, this was about moving away from that framing, both in the how we do research and what that means on the other side, right, of what the research is for and how impact becomes possible with girls, with communities, and not for girls and for communities.

所以我认为对我们来说，这就是要摆脱这个框架，无论是我们如何进行研究，还是从另一方面来说，研究的目的以及如何对女孩、社区产生影响，而不是对女孩和社区产生影响。

I’ll circle back after all of that to to really what you said, that, you know, this is about, again, that commitment to justice, that justice requires centering people who have been excluded, and that, you know, that means in the ways we do research and the ways we think about bringing that research into impact.

在所有这些之后，我会回到你所说的，你知道，这又是关于对正义的承诺，正义需要集中那些被排除在外的人，你知道，这意味着我们进行研究的方式以及我们考虑将研究产生影响的方式。

It’s really important to look at this through a systems lens.

从系统的角度来看待这个问题非常重要。

You have to really view this, you know, through the surrounding systems.

你知道，你必须通过周围的系统真正地看待这一点。

You have to find a way to understand the systems that are at work, and it’s best understood through the lens of the person living out the experience.

你必须找到一种方法来理解正在工作的系统，并且最好通过体验者的视角来理解它。

But what they share with you and their experiences every day points you to systems, surrounding systems, that confine them.

但他们与你分享的内容以及他们每天的经历会向你指出限制他们的系统、周围的系统。

You have to take a look at it because these systems reveal the power dynamics that are at play that force these exclusions, whether it’s geographic, whether it’s social, whether it’s, you know, political, whether it’s through norms and laws.

你必须审视它，因为这些系统揭示了迫使这些排除的权力动态，无论是地理上的、社会上的、政治上的、还是通过规范和法律实现的。

Systems exist and they create hierarchies and exclusionary effects.

系统是存在的，它们会产生等级制度和排他性效应。

And when you understand the systems, you’re in a better position, you know, to confront these inequitable systems or, you know, forces and and work with the girls to, again, create shared solutions.

当你了解这些系统时，你就处于一个更好的位置，你知道，面对这些不公平的系统，或者，你知道，迫使女孩们并与女孩们合作，再次创造共同的解决方案。

Right?

正确的？

And also work with communities to come about shared solutions.

并与社区合作制定共享解决方案。

It’s been great sharing this, you know, topic and delving into this topic of marginalization on today’s episode I enjoyed immensely.

在我非常喜欢的今天的节目中分享这个话题并深入探讨这个边缘化话题真是太棒了。

I hope you enjoyed listening.

我希望你喜欢听。

What about you, Jenn?

你呢，珍？

What are your final thoughts for our listeners?

您最后对我们的听众有什么想法？

O’DONOGHUE: Yeah.

奥多诺休：是的。

No, I think, Edem, you really gave a teaser for what’s upcoming, right, which is both about a deeper exploration of LAAGA’s participatory approach.

不，我认为，Edem，你确实为即将发生的事情提供了预告片，对吧，这都是对 LAAGA 参与式方法的更深入探索。

So today we’ve been talking a a lot about the sort of why and some of the sort of high-level principles that guided that.

所以今天我们已经讨论了很多关于原因以及指导这一点的一些高级原则。

In the next episode, we’ll be really delving into what we call our GCM, or our girl-centered methodology, that was developed over several years of of research with girls and communities through LAAGA.

在下一集中，我们将真正深入探讨我们所说的 GCM，即以女孩为中心的方法，该方法是通过 LAAGA 对女孩和社区进行了数年的研究而开发的。

You also talked about the the bringing in and the work with communities, and so in future episodes we’ll be talking about what we learned from the girl-centered methodologies, but how we we brought that into communities and worked with communities to make meaning of that, to take action of that, and to really think about, again, those systems that you emphasize so much and and, you know, what are the systems that most matter in specific contexts, and what are the actions that that we need to take.

您还谈到了社区的引入以及与社区的合作，因此在未来的剧集中，我们将讨论我们从以女孩为中心的方法中学到的东西，以及我们如何将其带入社区并与社区合作，以使其有意义，采取行动，并再次真正思考您如此强调的那些系统，并且您知道，在特定情况下最重要的系统是什么，以及我们需要采取哪些行动。

Right?

正确的？

And when I say we, I mean sort of the whole ecosystem from the girl, her family, the educators around her, the policymakers in that space, moving up through, you know, researchers, up through the system, government, funders, all of this.

当我说我们时，我指的是整个生态系统，从女孩、她的家庭、她周围的教育工作者、该领域的政策制定者，到你知道的研究人员、系统、政府、资助者，所有这些。

So we’ll be unpacking more of this.

所以我们将解压更多内容。

But in the next episode in particular, really look forward to delving into LAAGA’s participatory research methodology.

但特别是在下一集中，我们真的很期待深入研究 LAAGA 的参与式研究方法。

O’DONOGHUE: Thank you for listening to Embedding Equality in Education , a podcast from the Gender Equality in and through Education team in the Center for Universal Education at Brookings.

奥多诺休：感谢您收听“将平等融入教育”，这是布鲁金斯学会普及教育中心教育团队中性别平等的播客。

Our sincere thanks to all the LAAGA members and others who contributed to this episode.

我们衷心感谢所有 LAAGA 成员和其他为这一集做出贡献的人。

O’DONOGHUE: Daniel Morales also designed the show’s artwork.

奥多诺休：丹尼尔·莫拉莱斯还设计了该剧的艺术作品。

And a very big special thank you to our former senior project assistant and co-producer, Anya Kasubhai, who did so much to get this show launched.

特别感谢我们的前高级项目助理兼联合制片人安雅·卡苏拜 (Anya Kasubhai)，他为这部剧的推出付出了巨大的努力。

O’DONOGHUE: Brookings gratefully acknowledges the support provided by Echidna Giving, Stone Family Foundation, and The LEGO Foundation in support of this work.

奥多诺休：布鲁金斯学会衷心感谢 Echidna Giving、Stone Family 基金会和乐高基金会为这项工作提供的支持。

The Brookings Institution is committed to quality, independence, and impact.

布鲁金斯学会致力于质量、独立性和影响力。

We are supported by a diverse array of funders .

我们得到了众多资助者的支持。

In line with our values and policies , each Brookings publication represents the sole views of its author(s).

根据我们的价值观和政策，布鲁金斯学会的每份出版物均代表其作者的唯一观点。

Early Childhood Education Education Access & Equity Education Policy Global Education K-12 Education

幼儿教育 教育机会与公平 教育政策 全球教育 K-12 教育