Return With Honor

In 1973, the Paris Peace Accords were signed, ending America's longest conflict, The Vietnam War.

1973年，巴黎和平协定签署，结束了美国最长的冲突——越南战争。

Four hundred and sixty-two American airmen held as prisoners of war in North Vietnam were released.

被关押在北越的四百六十二名美国飞行员被释放。

This is their story told in their own words.

这是他们用自己的话讲述的故事。

To fly alone in the tops of the cloud, you come down and you touch a cloud, it's like you've just touched a cotton field or something.

独自飞翔在云端，你下来后触到一片云，就好像你刚刚触到了一片棉田什么的。

And then you pull up and do a roll, around the top of the clouds.

然后你拉起来，在云顶上翻滚。

Then you got these big billowing cumuli nimbus and you come along and you climb up the side of this.

然后你就得到了这些巨大的滚滚积雨云，你就沿着它的一侧爬上去。

It's like going up Empire State Building.

这就像登上帝国大厦。

You roll over the top and you come back down.

你滚过顶部，然后又下来。

Uh, it -- it's -- it's such a feeling.

呃，这——这——就是这样的感觉。

I loved operating in another medium with the verve and acrobatism which is associated with ballet and flying trapezes and things like that and being able to do what I wanted in the air with this big heavy machine which could exercise an extension of my will.

我喜欢在另一种媒介中进行操作，充满活力和杂技，这与芭蕾舞和空中飞人之类的东西有关，并且能够用这台大型重型机器在空中做我想做的事情，这可以锻炼我的意志延伸。

We're control freaks and uh, sitting in that cockpit you know, you have the forty thousand pounds of thrust under your left hand and -- and about six or seven Gs in your right hand and so uh, maybe that's it.

我们是控制狂，呃，坐在那个驾驶舱里，你知道，你的左手有四万磅的推力，右手有大约六到七个重力，所以呃，也许就是这样。

Control.

控制。

But then you know, there's some really beautiful moments of flying too and you know, I have my memory of landing on aircraft carriers just as the sun's coming up.

但你知道，飞行中也有一些非常美丽的时刻，你知道，我记得太阳升起时降落在航空母舰上。

The phrase we use is pushing the envelope.

我们使用的短语是“挑战极限”。

Early on in pilot training they tell you what to do, where to move the stick.

在飞行员训练的早期，他们会告诉你该做什么、将操纵杆移到哪里。

But over a period of years, and I didn't have too many years because I ended up in the North Vietnam but uh, you begin to play it like a violin, you know, just where to go and how far to go and that's all there is in the airplane.

但过了几年，我没有太多时间，因为我最终去了北越，但是呃，你开始像拉小提琴一样演奏它，你知道，要去哪里，要去多远，这就是飞机上的全部。

Don't do anything else, it's dangerous.

不要做任何其他事情，这很危险。

I read an article in -- in uh, National Geographics about this great new college out -- in Colorado and it looked beautiful and it had a great curriculum and oh by the way, they uh, if you graduate from that place you get to go fly airplanes and it just sounded wonderful to me as the little guy on a farm in North Carolina who wanted to fly airplanes.

我在国家地理杂志上读到一篇关于科罗拉多州这所伟大的新大学的文章，它看起来很漂亮，课程也很棒，哦，顺便说一句，呃，如果你从那个地方毕业，你就可以去开飞机，这对我来说听起来很棒，因为我是北卡罗来纳州一个农场里想要开飞机的小家伙。

Being a big city boy and never having been a Boy Scout and never having camped out or anything like that, it was quite a -- a shock for me.

作为一个大城市的男孩，从来没有当过童子军，也从来没有露营过或类似的事情，这对我来说是一个很大的震惊。

I wondered, you know, how did I ever get through that.

我想知道，你知道，我是如何度过这一切的。

Because uh, there were a number of times when I just really wanted to -- to quit.

因为呃，有很多次我真的很想——戒烟。

When you stop to think about it, the whole purpose in the fourth class system and the harassment that you undergo throughout that whole year is to teach you to think and react in a controlled manner under pressure.

当你停下来思考这个问题时，你会发现第四类系统的全部目的以及你这一整年所经历的骚扰都是为了教会你在压力下以受控的方式思考和反应。

And that ability and that training I sincerely believe made it easier to endure some of the very high pressure situations in the POW experience.

我真诚地相信，这种能力和训练让我们更容易忍受战俘经历中的一些非常高的压力。

The first time you go up and you're flying by yourself and you look over and there's not an instructor pilot there anymore.

第一次你上去的时候，你自己飞，你看过去，那里已经没有教官了。

You are really doing something at the end of a dream that you really, really enjoy.

在梦想结束时，你确实正在做一些你非常非常喜欢的事情。

My understanding of the war at that time was that essentially it was you know, very much akin to -- to -- to the NATO concept.

我当时对战争的理解是，本质上它是你知道的，非常类似于北约的概念。

It was an opportunity for communist overrun of -- of free nations and uh, we had decided to hold the line of South Vietnam and we were over there to help them.

这是共产主义侵占自由国家的机会，呃，我们决定坚守南越的防线，我们在那里帮助他们。

I had no problem with uh, going over and fighting.

我对呃，过去打架没有任何问题。

I was trained to believe that -- that uh, I had responsibility to -- to pay back my country for the opportunity to live here and enjoy the freedoms that she offered.

我接受的训练让我相信——呃，我有责任——回报我的国家，让我有机会在这里生活并享受她提供的自由。

And that service in the military was part of that responsibility.

参军是该责任的一部分。

Now I figured out real early that if I was going to have to go fight, I wanted to do it from up in the air instead of slogging through the mud on the ground being shot at.

现在我很早就意识到，如果我必须去战斗，我想从空中进行战斗，而不是在被射击的地面上艰难地穿过泥浆。

I was the first person in my family ever -- ever to go to college better yet, ever to finish high school.

我是我们家里第一个更好地上大学的人，也是第一个完成高中学业的人。

And when I decided to go into the military it was sort of well, it's sort of disappointing.

当我决定参军时，感觉还不错，但也有点令人失望。

The initial attack on the destroyer Maddox on Aug 2, was repeated today, by a number of hostile vessels attacking 2 US destroyers with torpedoes.

8 月 2 日对马多克斯号驱逐舰的首次袭击今天再次发生，多艘敌方船只用鱼雷袭击了两艘美国驱逐舰。

We were one of the first to launch from our ship.

我们是第一批从我们的船上发射的人之一。

I came down through thick, thick, thunder storms and when I dropped my flares I uh, I -- I lit up the sky.

我穿过厚厚的雷雨，当我放下照明弹时，我呃，我——我照亮了天空。

I could see our two destroyers uh, very, very clear, bobbing around in the pretty, pretty choppy sea out there.

我可以看到我们的两艘驱逐舰，呃，非常非常清晰，在美丽、波涛汹涌的大海中漂浮。

I didn't see any torpedo boats.

我没有看到任何鱼雷艇。

This new act of aggression aimed directly at our own forces...

这种新的侵略行为直接针对我们自己的军队......

Johnson was stewing in Washington because he wanted to tell the American people that there had been an attack and he was taking reprisal action and the planes were at the very moment he spoke bombing the targets.

约翰逊在华盛顿焦躁不安，因为他想告诉美国人民，发生了袭击，他正在采取报复行动，而就在他讲话的那一刻，飞机正在轰炸目标。

Now I was supposed to be the -- the first plane off the ship for these great bombing raids and I was sitting in my ready room chair when he actually told the American people.

现在我应该是第一架从船上起飞的飞机，参加这些伟大的轰炸袭击，当他真正告诉美国人民时，我正坐在准备室的椅子上。

Air action is now in execution in North Vietnam.

空中行动目前正在北越进行。

So we took off knowing that the Vietnamese had been alerted that we were coming.

所以我们出发了，因为我们知道越南人已经收到我们要来的警报。

As we were doing this the realization struck me and I remember my knees started to shake.

当我们这样做时，我突然意识到，我记得我的膝盖开始颤抖。

Uh, I -- I says holy smokes, we're going into war.

呃，我——我说天啊，我们要开战了。

And what's the rest of the world going to think about this?

世界其他地方对此有何看法？

We went in first.

我们先进去了。

They were fully waiting for us.

他们完全在等我们。

All of a sudden the whole world opened up on me and I could see the flack.

突然之间，整个世界向我敞开，我可以看到那枚闪光。

The world was just black of flack and -- and by this time uh, I realized holy smokes, they're all shooting at me.

世界一片漆黑，而且——这时候，呃，我意识到天哪，他们都在向我射击。

As we were just leaving the area I was hit.

当我们刚刚离开该地区时，我被击中了。

I said I've got to get out and see you guys later.

我说我得出去一会儿见你们。

The initial days was a learning experience for me and for the North Vietnamese.

最初的日子对我和北越人来说都是一次学习经历。

It was the first time they had somebody, I don't feel they really knew what to do.

这是他们第一次有人，我觉得他们真的不知道该怎么做。

How to handle me.

怎么对付我。

As a POW, you know, you're not supposed to give any name, rank, service number, date of birth.

作为一名战俘，你知道，你不应该透露任何姓名、军衔、服役编号、出生日期。

So I wasn't answering anything else.

所以我没有回答其他任何事情。

And so they said why don't you answer?

然后他们说你为什么不回答？

And I said well according to the Geneva Agreements, I'm not supposed to.

我说得好，根据日内瓦协议，我不应该这样做。

Well, low and behold, why not?

好吧，瞧瞧，为什么不呢？

Well, as a prisoner of war.

好吧，作为战俘。

You're not a prisoner of war.

你不是战俘。

There's no war.

没有战争。

There are no diplomatic relations between your country and my country.

贵国和我国之间没有外交关系。

you don't think that there's somebody going to come in here and represent you?

你不认为有人会来这里代表你吗？

He says you're in our hands now.

他说你现在在我们手里了。

We consider you a criminal.

我们认为你是罪犯。

A war criminal.

一个战犯。

So I remember my thinking was, oops, so what do I do now?

所以我记得我的想法是，哎呀，那我现在该怎么办？

The war in Vietnam was going to be so quick.

越南战争来得如此之快。

If you want to get any -- any ribbons you want to get any combat experience, you want to be anybody in the Air Force, you better get over there before it's over.

如果你想获得任何——任何勋章，你想获得任何战斗经验，你想成为空军中的任何人，你最好在结束之前赶到那里。

You're anxious to go.

你急着要走。

You want to get involved.

你想参与其中。

I was right in the middle of that pack and I could -- I could hardly wait to get the training out of the way for the A4 and get on the carrier and get over there and -- and contribute what I could contribute.

我就在这群人中间，我可以——我迫不及待地想完成 A4 的训练，登上航空母舰，到达那里——贡献我能贡献的力量。

When we stepped off the airplanes at Taka Li, at the far end of the runway, turning initial was a missing man formation of three thuds.

当我们在跑道尽头的塔卡里 (Taka Li) 走下飞机时，第一个转弯是一个由三声重击组成的失踪人员编队。

The 105.

105.

I looked at McNish, he looked at me, and I looked up.

我看着麦克尼什，他也看着我，我也抬起头来。

Nodded my head and then right after that comes a second flight in turning initial and it had a missing man in it.

我点点头，然后就在第二次飞行开始转弯时，机上有一名失踪人员。

I looked at him, he looked at me and said, well, I guess we're here.

我看着他，他看着我说，好吧，我想我们到了。

Two targets today.

今天有两个目标。

Our primary again is in the Hanoi area and your first alternate if the weather is bad, will be down in the Southern area in North Vietnam., just North of the DMZ

我们的主要地点还是在河内地区，如果天气不好，您的第一个备用地点将在北越的南部地区，就在非军事区以北

By trying to cut the supply line between North and South Vietnam where the regular North Vietnamese were coming down to fight.

通过试图切断北越和南越之间的补给线，北越正规军正在那里进行战斗。

Bridges were one of the prime targets.

桥梁是主要目标之一。

We'd go in before the strike force and suppress their radars and also their missile sites so that the strike force of fifty airplanes or whatever could go in and do their job.

我们会在打击部队之前进入并压制他们的雷达和导弹发射场，以便五十架飞机或其他什么的打击部队可以进入并完成他们的工作。

We had an extensive set of ground rules.

我们有一套广泛的基本规则。

We had uh, uh, rules that were put out in bit -- books that thick about what we could do and what we couldn't do.

我们有呃，呃，以位的方式制定的规则——厚厚的书本告诉我们什么可以做，什么不能做。

Where we could bomb, where we couldn't bomb.

我们可以轰炸的地方，不能轰炸的地方。

You've heard the stories about fighting with one hand tied behind your back.

您听说过将一只手绑在背后打架的故事。

Well we had both hands tied behind our back.

好吧，我们的双手被绑在背后。

Mr. MacNamara had a hard job but uh, he apparently thought he knew more about targeting than anybody else in the world.

麦克纳马拉先生的工作很辛苦，但是，呃，他显然认为自己比世界上任何人都更了解目标定位。

They're shooting.

他们正在射击。

They knew where we were coming from.

他们知道我们来自哪里。

They knew the headings.

他们知道标题。

They knew the altitudes.

他们知道海拔高度。

They -- before we ever got there, they were laying in at eight ten and twelve thousand feet.

他们——在我们到达那里之前，他们就埋伏在八万一万二千英尺处。

All the eighty five and hundred millimeter uh, fire.

所有八十五毫米和一百毫米呃，开火。

I could see the tracer and it looks like tennis balls, big red tennis balls coming.

我可以看到追踪器，它看起来像网球，红色的大网球来了。

I rolled into the dive and just as I released the bombs, I was struck in the right wing by a surface to air missile.

我开始俯冲，就在我释放炸弹时，我的右翼被一枚地对空导弹击中。

And I flipped and flipped and flipped and flipped and I was pinned against the cockpit.

我翻转、翻转、翻转、翻转，然后我被压在驾驶舱上。

I couldn't move and it flipped over and it was going straight down to the ground.

我无法动弹，它翻了过来，直接掉到了地上。

We got hit, you know, within a second of bomb release.

你知道，炸弹发射后不到一秒我们就被击中了。

And you feel it teetering and then boom!, all of a sudden it went over again.

你感觉它摇摇欲坠，然后轰隆隆！，突然间它又重新开始了。

And it went over six times

而且已经超过六次了

We were pretty well corkscrewing through the air

我们在空中打得很顺利

And eventually there was nothing left to be seen of an airplane.

最终，飞机再也看不到了。

There was this -- this huge orange fireball in the sky.

天空中出现了这个巨大的橙色火球。

Last airspeed I saw was six hundred and twenty knots and we were going down through forty five hundred feet and this wonderful gentleman sitting about six feet behind me said Ed, I don't think we're going to make it.

我看到的最后一次空速是六百二十节，我们正在下降四千五百英尺，坐在我身后大约六英尺的这位出色的绅士说艾德，我认为我们不会成功。

As a fighter pilot, you'll never -- you can fix anything.

作为一名战斗机飞行员，你永远无法修复任何事情。

Nothing is ever going to go wrong, I'm in complete control here!

一切都不会出错，这里完全由我掌控！

Don't bother me!

别打扰我！

Ed, I don't think we're going to make it.

艾德，我认为我们不会成功。

Snapped me right out of my thing and I said bail out Kevin and I started to say bail out the second time, he said sayonara Ed and we went out together.

把我从我的事情中拉出来，我说保释凯文，我第二次开始说保释，他说再见艾德，我们一起出去了。

Now how close did we come?

现在我们距离有多近？

Before the parachutes opened, the airplane hit the ground, that's one and three quarter seconds.

在降落伞打开之前，飞机落地，时间是一又四分之三秒。

I started operating at about two levels at that time, my conscious was saying alright, we're going to the target.

那时我开始在大约两个级别上进行操作，我的意识告诉我，好吧，我们正在达到目标。

My subconscious was telling me it's over Ron, you better start thinking about plan B here pretty soon.

我的潜意识告诉我一切都结束了，罗恩，你最好尽快开始考虑 B 计划。

I realized at that point that uh, there was no more flying in this airplane.

那时我意识到，呃，这架飞机不再飞行了。

I was strictly a passenger.

我严格来说只是一名乘客。

You train all of your career for this.

你所有的职业生涯都是为了这个而训练的。

You go through practice shots on the ground and everything else.

你要在地面上练习投篮以及其他一切。

Got the elbows in, the spinal column straight and the head back and squeeze the triggers and that's the last thing I remembered.

肘部内收，脊柱伸直，头向后仰，扣动扳机，这是我记得的最后一件事。

.

。

This thing of uh, your entire life passing before your eyes in a matter of seconds really does happen.

这种呃，你的整个人生在几秒钟内就在你眼前流逝的事情确实发生了。

You -- you think about your wife, your kids, your uh, what you used to do, what are they going to do without me and there you are, floating down the parachute.

你——你想想你的妻子，你的孩子，你呃，你过去做什么，如果没有我他们会做什么，而你就在那里，从降落伞上飘下来。

The United States Air Force had seen fit to send me to Survival School, to Water Survival School, to Jungle Survival School.

美国空军认为送我去生存学校、水中生存学校、丛林生存学校是合适的。

all the training that I needed for escape and evasion and I came through the trees and landed right in the middle of a small village and I escaped and evaded for about five seconds.

我接受了逃跑和躲避所需的所有训练，然后我穿过树林，降落在一个小村庄的正中央，我逃跑和躲避了大约五秒钟。

I popped my chute off and stood up and about that time I saw at least a hundred rifles just gun barrel right -- right to my head.

我打开降落伞，站起来，大约在那时，我看到至少有一百支步枪就在枪管右侧——正对着我的头。

And uh, I calmly put my hands up.

嗯，我平静地举起双手。

The golden bebe that took Ed Mechenbier and Kevin McManus and five hundred plus other guys from being invincible, Sir Lancelots uh, you know, charging windmills, wonderful, world's great fighter pilots.

兰斯洛茨爵士，呃，你知道，让埃德·梅钦比尔和凯文·麦克马纳斯以及其他五百多个人变得无敌的黄金贝贝，为风车冲锋，是世界上最伟大的战斗机飞行员。

But all of a sudden you're not that, and you're scared.

但突然间你就不再是那样了，你感到害怕。

You know?

你知道？

(sound fx) What a change in status!

（音效）状态发生了多么大的变化啊！

And so there I was uh, this very uh, proud and vainglorious fighter pilot, the peacock of the services uh, walking down a dirt road on the outskirts of Hanoi barefoot in my skivies and a T-shirt with a hole right where my naval was and I thought you know, I really look good here don't I?

于是我就出现了，呃，这个非常呃，骄傲又虚荣的战斗机飞行员，军种的孔雀呃，赤脚走在河内郊区的一条土路上，穿着我的滑雪裤和一件有洞的T恤，就在我的海军所在的地方，我想你知道，我在这里真的看起来很好不是吗？

They came down off the hill of this little drainage ditch that I was in and uh, surrounded me and when they decided that I wasn't going to do anything horrible to them except just sit there in the mud they immediately relieved me of knives and guns and all the other things.

他们从我所在的这条小排水沟的山上下来，呃，包围了我，当他们决定我不会对他们做任何可怕的事情，除了坐在泥里时，他们立即把我身上的刀、枪和其他东西都拿走了。

That first day I went through the same thing that everybody did.

第一天我经历了和大家一样的事情。

I got stoned and spit on as I walked through little villages and -- and uh, that evening, they had a big convocation out in the local soccer field and put me up on a flatbed truck and threw rocks at me and yelled and screamed.

当我走过小村庄时，我被扔石头并吐口水——呃，那天晚上，他们在当地的足球场举行了一场盛大的集会，把我放在一辆平板卡车上，向我扔石头，大喊大叫。

They keep you there not much more than fifteen, twenty minutes and you'd run another four or five uh, miles to the next village.

他们让你在那里停留的时间不会超过十五、二十分钟，然后你还要再跑四五英里，呃，到下一个村庄。

The people would poke you with uh, with uh, bamboo sticks and everything.

人们会用呃，呃，竹棍什么的戳你。

And uh, and the -- the worst part was uh, the -- the little kids would come up and put little slivers of bamboo into you

呃，最糟糕的是，呃，小孩子们会过来把小竹条放进你体内

They took me out to a firing squad and, five guys and uh, pointed rifles at me and you know, pulled the clips and jammed them home and he said fire and they all went click, click, click, click, click, and I laughed at them at that point, but I have to tell you that it was the first time that i'd realized, and I had been praying real hard, that the lord was on my side.

他们把我带到行刑队，五个人，呃，用步枪指着我，你知道，拉开弹夹，把它们卡回家，他说开火，他们都发出咔嗒、咔嗒、咔嗒、咔嗒、咔嗒声，当时我嘲笑他们，但我必须告诉你，这是我第一次意识到，而且我一直在努力祈祷，主是站在我这边的。

We'd had an intelligence briefing and they read a quote from apparently something the north Vietnamese army put out to all the peasants that said, If you capture American air pirates don't kill them, keep them and you'll be generously rewarded.

我们听取了情报简报，他们读了一段显然是北越军队向所有农民发布的内容，内容是：如果你抓到了美国海盗，不要杀死他们，留住他们，你会得到丰厚的奖励。

This guy kept looking at me and he could see I was in pain.

这家伙一直看着我，他能看出我很痛苦。

My leg was crooked, hanging out.

我的腿弯曲了，悬在外面。

I received the one act of kindness.

我收到了一份善意的举动。

I kept saying s'il vous plait and s'il vous plait, merci, do anything I could think of and I -- I took my fingers and I -- I indicated that he should take my leg and pull it out straight.

我一直说你是辫子，是你辫子，谢谢，做我能想到的任何事情，我——我握住我的手指，我——我示意他应该抓住我的腿，然后把它笔直地拉出来。

That's all I could do was just this motion right here and point to him and do that.

我所能做的就是在这里做出这个动作并指着他然后这样做。

This guard looked around, nobody around.

这名守卫环顾四周，周围没有人。

Put his rifle up against the tree, sat down, put his foot in my crotch, put my -- my foot underneath his armpit and gave a big mighty shove and popped my leg back straight.

他把他的步枪靠在树上，坐下来，把他的脚放在我的胯部，把我的——我的脚放在他的腋下，用力一推，把我的腿拉直了。

And then laid it down.

然后就把它放下了。

I was rather severely injured.

我受的伤比较重。

I had a broken arm, broken shoulder, and a broken leg.

我的手臂骨折了，肩膀骨折了，腿也骨折了。

My first decision was whether or not I wanted to live or -- or to die.

我的第一个决定是我是否想活下去，或者——或者死。

It was a conscious uh, process.

这是一个有意识的呃过程。

I had my thirty eight there and I had it out.

我在那里有我的三十八岁，我已经把它拿出来了。

I opted not to uh, pull the trigger and frankly it would have been easy to do so.

我选择不，嗯，扣动扳机，坦率地说，这样做很容易。

I'd made up my mind that if I could escape I would get out of there as soon as it got dark I was going to untie myself, and head for South Vietnam.

我暗下决心，如果能逃出去，天一黑就离开那里，解开束缚，前往南越。

I got uh, over into the de-militarized zone in the ballpark of two weeks without any substantial food.

我进入了非军事区两周，没有任何实质性食物。

I'd eat a few berries and uh, and a couple of frogs.

我会吃一些浆果，呃，还有几只青蛙。

Was within about a mile of uh, Dong Ha when these Vietnamese popped up out of a hole and yelled at me and uh, I just thought I didn't come this far to surrender to these people.

距离呃，东哈大约一英里时，这些越南人从一个洞里跳出来，对我大喊大叫，呃，我只是以为我没有走到这么远的地方来向这些人投降。

And uh, took off running.

然后呃，开始跑步。

And they uh, shot me down and recaptured me.

他们呃，击落了我，然后又抓回了我。

And I drew my pistol and I stood up and when I stood up, I'm looking right down the guy's gun barrel and he's just a few feet from me and I got my pistol at an inclination about forty five degrees and the -- I remembered what I told the guys I would never be captured but you know, I -- I was kind of out gunned so I changed my mind.

我拔出手枪，站起来，当我站起来时，我正看着那家伙的枪管，他离我只有几英尺，我把手枪倾斜了大约四十五度，然后——我记得我告诉那些人我永远不会被俘虏，但你知道，我——我有点被枪杀了，所以我改变了主意。

And it wasn't but just a few minutes until they had me tied and it became my seven and a half years as a prisoner of war.

没过几分钟，他们就把我绑了起来，我的战俘生涯就这样度过了七年半。

There was the black car in Lemoore and it would go around, it would go around to peoples' homes and uh, you'd see the three people in the black car.

勒莫尔有一辆黑色汽车，它会绕来绕去，它会绕到人们的家中，呃，你会看到黑色汽车里的三个人。

And it was like the CO of the base, the CO of your squadron's wife and the Chaplin.

这就像基地的指挥部、中队妻子和卓别林的指挥部。

Those three people in the black car and you knew someone was gone.

那辆黑车里的三个人，你就知道有人走了。

I was getting dinner and the doorbell rang and my son, I told my son to go to the door.

我正在吃晚饭，门铃响了，我的儿子，我告诉我的儿子去门口。

And he came back and he says mother, it's a General at the door.

他回来后说妈妈，门口有一位将军。

And of course I knew the General wouldn't possible wouldn't come to visit me but I went to the door and I saw my Minister and I saw the Post Commander and this other person I did not know.

当然，我知道将军不可能不来看望我，但我走到门口，看到了我的部长，看到了邮政指挥官和另一个我不认识的人。

And I knew something had happened to Tom.

我知道汤姆出了什么事。

I heard some talking in the living room and my best friend was coming up the stairs and I said what are you doing here?

我听到客厅里有人说话，我最好的朋友正上楼，我说你在这里做什么？

And she said, oh Sybil, Jim is missing.

她说，哦西比尔，吉姆失踪了。

And she came and hugged me and I thought to myself, how can anybody be missing.

她走过来拥抱了我，我心想，怎么会有人失踪。

A person can't be missing.

一个人不能缺少。

God would know where he is.

上帝会知道他在哪里。

They were two and three at the time he was shot down.

他被击落时，他们分别是两岁和三岁。

I was telling them daddy's not going to come home for a while because he has to stay in another country, in another place.

我告诉他们爸爸暂时不会回家，因为他必须留在另一个国家、另一个地方。

But it'll probably be a long time before he comes home and we're just going to wait for him until he comes home.

但他可能要花很长时间才能回家，我们只能等他回家。

But, you know, I don't remember.

但是，你知道，我不记得了。

I think I was so upset myself that I'm not sure what I told those poor little boys.

我想我自己太沮丧了，以至于我不确定我对那些可怜的小男孩说了些什么。

The first picture that came out he looked strong so we knew that he would withstand anything and you just live from day to day waiting for information.

出来的第一张照片他看起来很坚强，所以我们知道他能承受任何事情，而你只是日复一日地等待信息。

I guess we just hoped that they weren't being tortured.

我想我们只是希望他们没有受到折磨。

That -- that was all we -- we -- you didn't want to uh, believe that uh, people would be cruel.

那——这就是我们——我们——你不想呃，相信呃，人们会很残忍。

I couldn't see out very much cause they had me blindfolded and the Jeep was kind of blackened out but eventually I arrived at this place called the uh, Hao Lo Prison which we Americans uh, named the Hanoi Hilton so that was my uh, entry into Hanoi.

我看不清楚，因为他们把我的眼睛蒙住了，吉普车也被熏黑了，但最终我到达了这个地方，叫做呃，豪罗监狱，我们美国人呃，将其命名为河内希尔顿酒店，所以这是我呃，进入河内的入口。

This Prison was kind of a city block in size and it was surrounded by a tall uh, stone walls on top of which were embedded in cement broken bottles and then on top of that were uh, high tension wires.

这个监狱的大小相当于一个街区，周围是高高的呃石墙，石墙的顶部嵌着水泥破瓶子，上面还有呃高压电线。

And I think the height of the thing was twelve or thirteen feet.

我认为那东西的高度是十二或十三英尺。

They took me into uh, a little cell with uh, one bed board in it and uh, on concrete supports.

他们把我带进呃，一个小牢房，里面有呃，一张床板，呃，有混凝土支架。

Rusted leg irons permanently mounted to the bed.

生锈的脚镣永久安装在床上。

And I'll tell you the Hilton was built by the French for the Vietnamese when they had Indochine -- Indo China.

我会告诉你希尔顿酒店是法国人为越南人建造的，当时他们拥有印度支那——印度支那。

And uh, this little separate group of cells that we called Heartbreak Hotel was -- is for the welcoming committee.

呃，我们称之为“心碎旅馆”的这个独立的小牢房是为欢迎委员会准备的。

Uh, uh, let you know that they had other plans for you and you could look at this place and -- you could look at this place and understand and just hear the screams of about fifty years uh, because it was -- it's a hard place.

呃，呃，让你知道他们对你有其他计划，你可以看看这个地方，你可以看看这个地方，了解并听到大约五十年的尖叫声，呃，因为它是 - 这是一个艰难的地方。

It really is.

确实如此。

A light came in.

一盏灯进来了。

I could see this knobby room which we later called the uh, Knobby Torture Room.

我可以看到这个多瘤的房间，我们后来称之为呃，多瘤的酷刑室。

And there were racks up above.

上面还有架子。

There were meat hooks hanging from the rafters.

椽子上挂着肉钩。

There were old medieval type irons, manacles and stocks around the room.

房间里有古老的中世纪式熨斗、手铐和枪托。

And I could see these things and I thought well this has got to be a storage room.

我可以看到这些东西，我想这一定是一个储藏室。

You're always sitting either on the floor or on a stool or concrete block or something low.

你总是坐在地板上、凳子上、混凝土块上或低矮的东西上。

The interrogator is always behind a table that's covered with cloth of some kind, white or blue or something.

审讯者总是在一张桌子后面，桌子上铺着某种布，白色或蓝色之类的。

And he sits above you and he's always looking down at you asking you questions and they want to know what the targets are for tomorrow, next week, next month.

他坐在你上方，总是低头看着你问你问题，他们想知道明天、下周、下个月的目标是什么。

You don't know.

你不知道。

You really don't know.

你真的不知道。

But he doesn't -- he's going to have to have an answer of some kind.

但他没有——他必须得到某种答案。

Now the back of the room comes the -- the torture.

现在房间后面传来了——酷刑。

And he's a -- he's a big guy that knows what he's doing.

他是一个——他是一个知道自己在做什么的大人物。

And he starts locking your elbows up with ropes and tying your wrists together and bending you.

他开始用绳子锁住你的肘部，将你的手腕绑在一起，让你弯曲。

They tied me in knots uh, with this nylon strap cutting off the circulation to my arms and my wrists and the pain is getting very great.

他们把我绑起来，呃，这条尼龙带切断了我手臂和手腕的血液循环，疼痛变得非常严重。

And so uh, I gave out a great big holler and I said okay, okay, okay.

所以呃，我大声喊叫，我说好吧，好吧，好吧。

I'll tell you what you want to know.

我会告诉你你想知道什么。

I says you know, you've been trained, you've been raised to be a -- a real -- a tough resister.

我说你知道，你已经接受过训练，你已经被培养成一个——一个真正的——一个坚强的抵抗者。

This is embarrassing.

这很尴尬。

You have given in John Fer, you have given in in a very short period of time.

你已经让约翰·费尔屈服了，你在很短的时间内就屈服了。

Now it wasn't that bad uh, and so when he said what's your unit again, I said uh, I can't tell you that.

现在情况还不错呃，所以当他再次问你的单位是什么时，我说呃，我不能告诉你。

Well he got very upset and he said something very sternly to this guy and he really tied me up this time and really cinched it down tight uh, when the pain got so great this time, they didn't come back right away.

好吧，他非常沮丧，他对这个家伙说了一些非常严厉的话，这次他真的把我绑了起来，真的把它绑得很紧，呃，当这次疼痛变得如此之大时，他们没有立即回来。

There's a point where you've completely had it.

到了某个时刻，你就已经完全受够了。

Where you lose control of your bowels, you throw up, uh, you'll sell your mother down the river uh, in a heart beat.

当你失去对肠道的控制时，你会呕吐，呃，你会把你的母亲卖到河里，呃，心跳加速。

And there's a point everybody reaches that you decide I've had it.

每个人都会达到一个点，你决定我已经受够了。

I've got to do something to get out of this program.

我必须做点什么才能摆脱这个计划。

And like me like most everybody we started telling them stories.

就像我和大多数人一样，我们开始给他们讲故事。

We made up targets.

我们制定了目标。

I had em bombing footbridges in China over creeks which I knew weren't real targets.

我曾在中国的小溪上轰炸过人行桥，但我知道那不是真正的目标。

The beatings were going to occur for a specified period of time almost regardless of what happened.

几乎无论发生什么，殴打都会在指定的时间内发生。

Again, it was to establish uh, the rules of the game.

再说一遍，这是为了建立呃，游戏规则。

They were in control.

他们处于控制之中。

That they were the masters.

他们是主人。

Uh, uh, and -- and you were subservient to them and you'd better be careful.

呃，呃，还有——你屈服于他们，你最好小心点。

They walked me into a room uh, with senior officers on both sides.

他们带我走进一个房间，呃，两边都有高级官员。

Now the man in question was in civilian clothes.

现在，这名男子穿着便服。

I knew who he probably was.

我知道他可能是谁。

Vin Quak Vin.

文夸克文。

I'd heard that name at Stanford.

我在斯坦福大学就听说过这个名字。

He was the propaganda expert of North Vietnam.

他是北越的宣传专家。

He was totally fluent in English and we we talked.

他的英语非常流利，我们聊得很开心。

And he was not hostile.

而且他并没有敌意。

He was picking my brains and I was picking his.

他在挖掘我的头脑，我也在挖掘他的头脑。

But here was the punch line.

但这是妙语。

And there was nothing dramatic or irate, he said you know about the war as a matter of weapons.

没有什么戏剧性或愤怒的事情，他说你知道战争是武器问题。

He said the Vietnamese people know that we cannot compete with you on the battlefield.

他说，越南人民知道，我们无法在战场上与你们竞争。

But he said it's not that that wins wars anyway.

但他表示，无论如何，这并不是赢得战争的关键。

It's national will.

这是国家意志。

And when the American people get the idea of what this war is all about, they will lose interest in pursuing it.

当美国人民了解这场战争的意义时，他们就会失去追求这场战争的兴趣。

He said we are going to win this war on the streets of New York.

他说我们将赢得纽约街头的这场战争。

And when the American people understand the war and you and your fellow prisoners are going to help them understand it, you will be their teachers.

当美国人民了解这场战争，而你和你的狱友将帮助他们了解战争时，你将成为他们的老师。

Then the war will go away.

然后战争就会消失。

We were a major factor in the strategy of the Vietnamese and we would be sort of a branch of the American anti war movement.

我们是越南战略中的一个主要因素，我们将成为美国反战运动的一个分支。

That's what they had in mind.

这就是他们的想法。

They wanted propaganda.

他们想要宣传。

They wanted us to denounce our leaders.

他们希望我们谴责我们的领导人。

They wanted us to denounce capitalism.

他们希望我们谴责资本主义。

They wanted us to praise Ho Chi Minh.

他们希望我们赞扬胡志明。

They wanted us to praise the communist initiative.

他们希望我们赞扬共产主义的倡议。

They would put the standard communist glowing terms on every little thing that happened.

他们会对所发生的每一件小事都加上标准的共产主义华丽术语。

One reason I was singled out was my picture was on the cover of Time Magazine.

我被挑选出来的原因之一是我的照片登上了《时代》杂志的封面。

The interrogator in my first interrogation had a copy.

我第一次审讯的审讯者有一份副本。

He said we know who you are Officer Reiner.

他说我们知道你是谁，雷纳警官。

And there's only three people we would rather have captured than you, that's Johnson, MacNamara and Rusk.

只有三个人我们比你更愿意抓，那就是约翰逊、麦克纳马拉和腊斯克。

So they really camped on my trail throughout my imprisonment.

所以他们在我入狱期间确实一直在跟踪我。

They focused on me a little more so than they did some others because I was relatively senior and I was black and later in the war especially most of the people fighting in the south were blacks, like 40% or so and there we go.

他们比其他一些人更关注我，因为我的资历相对较高，而且我是黑人，后来在战争中，尤其是在南方作战的大多数人都是黑人，大约有 40% 左右，就这样。

If they can get the senior black African- American to speak out against the war that this would have a very very detrimental influence on these young African-Americans fighting in South Vietnam.

如果他们能让资深黑人非裔美国人公开反对战争，这将对这些在南越作战的年轻非裔美国人产生非常非常有害的影响。

They did a lot of beatings but beatings are easy.

他们打了很多人，但打人很容易。

Uh, the -- the body responds to a beating very well you know, for that point where your body can't take it anymore, it just shuts down and you go unconscious.

呃，身体对殴打的反应非常好，你知道，当你的身体无法再承受时，它就会停止运转，你就会失去知觉。

So I mean there's very little a person truthfully can do to you by beating you.

所以我的意思是，一个人真正能通过殴打你来对你做什么。

Uh, but the -- the ropes were -- they were scary because they you know, you'd been put in a position whereby if you did something, you'd choke yourself.

呃，但是——绳子——它们很可怕，因为你知道，你被置于一个位置，如果你做某事，你就会窒息自己。

I was in terrible, terrible pain.

我感到非常非常痛苦。

They were using the rope trick.

他们正在使用绳索技巧。

The Vietnamese -- we called it the Vietnamese rope trick and that was to take the arms behind your back, tie your hands together, tie them up real tight and then rotate your arms behind and over your shoulder until your shoulders dislocate.

越南人——我们称之为越南绳索技巧，就是将手臂放在背后，将双手绑在一起，绑得很紧，然后将手臂旋转到背后并越过肩膀，直到肩膀脱臼。

Well this one is already broken and dislocated so that was easy.

好吧，这个已经坏了并且脱臼了，所以这很容易。

And I remember this one starting over the top and I can remember the cracking and breaking and my elbow also dislocated.

我记得这个是从顶部开始的，我记得破裂和断裂，我的肘部也脱臼了。

I was in terrible pain.

我非常痛苦。

Trying to scream.

试图尖叫。

Wishing I could die.

真希望我能死掉。

I finally said I can't live.

我终于说我活不下去了。

I can't live another day.

我不能再活一天了。

And no -- no food, no water, no sleep uh, twenty four hours a day of this and I started talking.

不——没有食物，没有水，没有睡眠，呃，一天二十四小时都是这样，然后我开始说话。

And I broke what we call breaking, I broke past name, rank, serial number.

我破坏了我们所说的破坏，我破坏了过去的名字、等级、序列号。

Some guys had been hurt, they'd been tortured.

有些人受到了伤害，他们受到了折磨。

They were scared.

他们很害怕。

Now think of this for a moment.

现在想一下。

Although we had pretty much the cream of the crop as pilots, they had to be highly educated and highly motivated to get there.

尽管我们拥有最优秀的飞行员，但他们必须受过高等教育并且积极主动才能到达那里。

Now how do you train?

现在你如何训练？

Well still you've got -- you got uh, a variation in humanity.

好吧，你仍然——呃，人性的变异。

One guy told me, he said I can't even stand unpleasantness let alone being tortured.

一个人告诉我，他说我连不愉快都受不了，更不用说被折磨了。

He said in the court, when the interrogator pounds the desk he said it just shrivels me up inside.

他在法庭上说，当审讯者敲打桌子时，他说这只会让我在里面萎缩。

What if you have a man that's claustrophobic and they put him in a black cell.

如果你有一个患有幽闭恐惧症的人，他们把他关在黑色牢房里怎么办？

He's going to lose it.

他会失去它。

He's going to go crazy probably.

他可能会发疯。

I put out the word Roll back, bounce back.

我说出了“滚回来，反弹”这个词。

That was the first time that was initiated.

这是第一次发起。

It was very important to last us the rest of the time.

在剩下的时间里陪伴我们是非常重要的。

You could be tortured to give something, but then you don't just lie back and continue to give them things as they just gradually exploit you.

你可能会因为给予一些东西而受到折磨，但你不会只是躺着继续给他们东西，因为他们只是逐渐剥削你。

You stop and don't give them anything, you make them torture you again and again and give them as little as you can the next time.

你停下来，不给他们任何东西，你让他们一次又一次地折磨你，下次就尽量少给他们。

In other words, they never advance their indoctrination of you to the object they wanted was you become a slave without torture to do anything they want to help their cause.

换句话说，他们从来不会向你灌输他们想要的目标，那就是让你成为奴隶，不受酷刑地去做他们想要帮助他们事业的任何事情。

I really thought before I was shot down and when I was first shot down that I was the toughest fighter pilot in the world.

在我被击落之前和第一次被击落时，我真的认为我是世界上最坚强的战斗机飞行员。

That I was John Wayne uh, Superman all of them rolled up into one and by God, they couldn't break me.

我是约翰·韦恩，呃，超人，他们都合而为一，上帝啊，他们无法摧毁我。

I was one tough son of a gun.

我是一个坚强的儿子。

Uh, I found out real fast how weak I was.

呃，我很快就发现自己有多弱。

Uh, pain may cleanse but by God, it also hurts.

呃，疼痛可以净化，但上帝啊，它也会受伤。

And uh, and I'm telling you, when your shoulders rotate in the sockets and you're hanging there and -- and you cry and you -- you bleed and you pray and you scream and when you scream, all they do is pick up a dirty rag and stick it in your mouth so they don't have to listen to you, and the thing that affects you, at least me, affected me the most was, God, I don't want to die here and nobody even know it.

呃，我告诉你，当你的肩膀在窝里旋转时，你挂在那里，你哭泣，你流血，你祈祷，你尖叫，当你尖叫时，他们所做的就是拿起一块脏抹布，把它塞到你嘴里，这样他们就不必听你的了，影响你的事情，至少是我，对我影响最大的是，上帝，我不想死在这里，甚至没有人知道。

You get isolated.

你会被孤立。

That's when the trouble begins.

那就是麻烦开始的时候。

You have to communicate a virtually any cost.

您必须传达几乎任何成本。

If you get caught and tortured for a little while, that's just the overhead.

如果你被抓住并受折磨一段时间，那只是开销。

But you do it anyway.

但你还是这么做了。

We used the tap code.

我们使用了 Tap 代码。

This became our second language and through next eight years we were able to communicate probably at the rate of 5, 6, 8 words per minute tapping through the wall.

这成了我们的第二语言，在接下来的八年里，我们能够以每分钟 5、6、8 个单词敲击墙壁的速度进行交流。

Imagine the alphabet arranged into a box that has five rows and five columns.

想象一下字母表排列成一个五行五列的盒子。

If you could picture across the top row A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, we left out K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z.

如果你能想象出顶行 A、B、C、D、E、F、G、H、I、J，我们就遗漏了 K、L、M、N、O、P、Q、R、S、T、U、V、W、X、Y、Z。

And if you needed a K you used a C.

如果您需要 K，则可以使用 C。

So uh, to tap it out, A was the first row, first column and it was tap tap.

所以呃，点击它出来，A 是第一行，第一列，它是点击点击。

B was the first row, second column and you go tap tap tap.

B 是第一行第二列，你可以点击点击。

F was the second row, first column and you tap (tapping).

F 是第二行第一列，您点击（点击）。

And you got to be pretty fast.

而且你必须非常快。

The building sounded like a -- a -- a uh, a den of runaway woodpeckers.

这栋建筑听起来就像——呃——呃，一个逃跑的啄木鸟的巢穴。

It was just awesome sometimes everybody tapping.

有时每个人都在敲击，这真是太棒了。

To call someone up to get them tapping you'd tap on the wall (tapping) and all Americans tap (tapping) but the Vietnamese if they were listening and trying to intercept it would tap back (tapping) and they would hear another tap and couldn't figure out what they did wrong.

要打电话给某人让他们敲击，你会敲击墙壁（敲击），所有美国人都会敲击（敲击），但越南人如果他们正在听并试图拦截它，就会敲击（敲击），他们会听到另一次敲击，并且无法弄清楚他们做错了什么。

We passed the equivalent of War and Peace several times over through different methods of communication.

我们通过不同的沟通方式多次传递了《战争与和平》的内容。

People swept in code.

人们席卷了代码。

They shoveled in code.

他们投入了代码。

Uh, flashed pans across halls in code.

呃，用代码在大厅里闪现。

Pushed pieces of paper out from under a door or through a crevice uh, using the tap code.

使用敲击代码将纸片从门下或缝隙中推出。

The number one you go (sound fx) depending how far you are from somebody.

你走的第一个（声音效果）取决于你离某人有多远。

For the number two you go (sound fx).

对于第二个你去（声音效果）。

Two of those sounds cough or sniff.

其中有两种声音是咳嗽或抽鼻子的声音。

The number three was (sound fx).

第三个是（声音效果）。

Number four was (sound fx) and the number five was spit or sneeze depending on how far you were from the person.

第四个是（音效），第五个是吐口水或打喷嚏，具体取决于你离对方的距离。

And it was beautiful.

它很美丽。

We used that.

我们用过那个。

They could hear it but since we often had colds and other kind of problems like that, we got away with it.

他们可以听到，但由于我们经常感冒和其他类似的问题，我们就侥幸逃脱了。

But most of the heavy news was passed uh, orally through the wall.

但大多数重大新闻都是通过墙壁口头传递的。

You could wrap your blanket around your mouth or put your cup up there to muffle it.

你可以用毯子包住嘴，或者把杯子放在嘴上以消声。

Your roommate or the people next door would look under the door through a crack in the wall and clear for you.

你的室友或隔壁的人会通过墙上的裂缝往门下看，为你清理干净。

Later on we got pretty good at it.

后来我们就做得很好了。

Uh, we were communicating from building to building with uh, visual code with hands.

呃，我们用呃视觉代码在建筑物之间进行交流。

I uh, tapped to Commander Denton almost uh, three years uh, tapping to a man that I had never seen his face or his body.

我呃，敲击丹顿指挥官几乎呃，三年了呃，敲击一个我从未见过他的脸或身体的人。

And uh, I thought my uh, uh, what a strange thing it is that I had uh, tapped into his mind and he into mine without ever having seen each other's face so that we knew each other's moods, uh, we knew uh, when we were happy by the uh, sounds of the tap or the way it was tapped or -- or uh, sad or mad or whatever.

呃，我想，呃，呃，这是一件多么奇怪的事情，我呃，在没有看到对方脸的情况下，就进入了他的思想，他也进入了我的思想，这样我们就知道彼此的心情，呃，我们知道呃，当我们高兴时，呃，敲击的声音或敲击的方式，或者——或者呃，悲伤或生气或其他什么。

As the conversation went, if the next word coming up uh, you knew what it was going to be by the first two letters or so, you give two quick taps and many a time all we uh, did was sort of two quick taps cause I knew what the next word and what the next word and what the next word uh, was going to be.

随着谈话的进行，如果下一个单词出现，呃，你通过前两个字母就知道它会是什么，你快速点击两次，很多时候我们呃，所做的只是快速点击两次，因为我知道下一个单词是什么，下一个单词是什么，下一个单词呃，会是什么。

And I haven't had too many conversations like that in my life.

我一生中还没有进行过太多这样的谈话。

They wanted to keep us from communicating they wanted to break us up.

他们想阻止我们沟通，他们想拆散我们。

They wanted to split us up so that we couldn't gain strength from each other.

他们想分裂我们，让我们无法从彼此身上获得力量。

And they were never able to for the entire time that we were there.

在我们在那里的整个时间里，他们一直无法做到这一点。

That was our one major victory.

这是我们的一项重大胜利。

They tried for more than seven years to completely subdue Risner and Stockdale and Denton and other later senior leaders.

他们花了七年多的时间试图彻底制服里斯纳、斯托克代尔和丹顿以及其他后来的高级领导人。

They hurt them very badly.

他们伤得很重。

Uh, physically and emotionally.

呃，身体上和情感上。

Uh, each time they bounced back and each time they were uh, in the position of leadership again, the policy was exactly what it had been before and they -- they exercised those same policies knowing what the consequences were going to be to them.

呃，每次他们反弹，每次他们呃，再次担任领导职务时，政策都和以前一样，他们执行同样的政策，知道会给他们带来什么后果。

One night was very memorable to me, it may have been two two thirty in the morning quiet and uh, the guard was a pretty decent guy I thought, a kid named Smiley about eighteen years old.

一个晚上对我来说是非常难忘的，那可能是凌晨两点三十分，很安静，呃，我认为警卫是一个相当正派的人，一个名叫史迈利的孩子，大约十八岁。

He did his duty, but I don't think he liked it too much.

他尽了自己的职责，但我认为他不太喜欢它。

And obviously the Camp Commander had told him to come in there and break me.

显然，营地指挥官让他进来并打破我。

was telling the guy going more, more, more and I said lord, I -- I've thought of every prayer that I know by heart, I've thought of everything that just sort of uh, uh, expresses my will and -- and beg you to help me and I -- I -- I've run out of things.

告诉那个人要更多，更多，更多，我说主啊，我 - 我已经想到了我记住的每一个祈祷，我已经想到了一切，呃，呃，表达我的意愿，并且 - 求你帮助我，我 - 我 - 我已经没有东西了。

I'm totally without resources for even prayer.

我什至连祈祷都完全没有资源。

It was the first time I'd ever said okay God, you've got it, I'm just gone.

这是我第一次说，好吧，上帝，你明白了，我走了。

.

。

And at that instant, I -- I breathed that total surrender I was relieved of all pain.

在那一刻，我——我呼吸到了完全投降的感觉，所有的痛苦都被解除了。

And I had felt as if a blanket had been placed over me.

我感觉好像有一条毯子盖在我身上。

A warmth and comfort I had absolutely not only no fear but the greatest feeling of comfort and total confidence that nothing could happen to me bad the rest of my life in this condition I was in.

一种温暖和舒适，我不仅没有恐惧，而且有最大的舒适感和完全的信心，在我的余生中，在这种情况下，我不会发生任何事情。

And that's when Smiley looked at me as he was pulling and I looked at him and my face must have said well Smiley what are you doing?

就在那时，史迈利在拉车时看着我，我也看着他，我的表情一定是在说，史迈利，你在做什么？

You're not hurting me.

你没有伤害我。

I -- you can't break me.

我——你无法击垮我。

And at that point his face just broke and he -- tears started coming down his face.

就在那时，他的脸崩溃了，泪水开始从他的脸上流下来。

He let go of the line.

他松开了线。

Went out and started screaming at the Officer.

走出去，开始对警官尖叫。

Having tortured me for my confession they were going to hope they could carry over to an interview in which I would say the words they wanted me to say.

在对我的招供进行酷刑之后，他们希望能够继续接受采访，让我说出他们想让我说的话。

But I decided I'd -- for -- for what it was worth, just say the opposite of what they briefed me on.

但我决定，无论如何，我都会说与他们向我介绍的相反的话。

And uh, saw the lights of the TV cameras.

呃，看到电视摄像机的灯光。

.

。

And -- and I saw the lights, I decided I'd blink my eyes in -- in Morse Code and -- and -- and spell out the word torture over and over again.

然后——我看到了灯光，我决定眨眼睛——用莫尔斯电码和——然后一遍又一遍地拼出“酷刑”这个词。

In case they fitted words into my mouth, that were apologetic on my part.

如果他们把话塞到我嘴里，那我就表示歉意。

In other words, faked it.

换句话说，就是伪造的。

I would at least let them know I'd been tortured by the T-O-R-T-U-R-E.

我至少会让他们知道我受到了T-O-R-T-U-R-E的折磨。

For a -- a year, I just laid on the floor trying to make my parts move.

有一年的时间，我只是躺在地板上，试图让我的零件移动。

It took me -- took me a while to get up.

我花了一段时间才站起来。

Finally I got a hold of a window sill and I stretched and I relocated my own elbow.

最后我抓住了窗台，伸了个懒腰，重新定位了自己的肘部。

Got this shoulder straight.

把这个肩膀伸直。

And then began a long, slow, healing process.

然后开始了一个漫长、缓慢的治愈过程。

And I was covered with boils and infection and as a diversion, as my mind is racing, I can't -- I can't sleep, I'm in delirium.

我全身长满疖子和感染，作为一种消遣，我的思绪飞速运转，我无法——我无法入睡，我处于谵妄状态。

But I started squeezing pus out of my boils and I started painting a picture on the wall.

但我开始挤出脓疮，并开始在墙上画一幅画。

And I painted a big beautiful stag with these big set of horns and this was the first painting I did in -- in prison was with -- with my own blood.

我画了一头美丽的雄鹿，上面长着大角，这是我在监狱里用我自己的血画的第一幅画。

and over the years I made a dedication, I said I know I can draw this.

多年来我做出了奉献，我说我知道我可以画这个。

I know I can capture it.

我知道我能捕捉到它。

So I memorized everything with the intention of drawing it one day when I got out.

所以我把一切都记了下来，打算有一天出来后把它画下来。

We began to talk about the war.

我们开始谈论战争。

How long are we going to be there and everything and I -- I was thinking well I'm only going to be there about six months or so.

我们要在那儿呆多久，所有的事情和我——我当时想，我只会在那儿呆大约六个月左右。

And then uh, Charlie says oh, we're probably going to be here about two years.

然后，呃，查理说，哦，我们可能会在这里待大约两年。

Two years?

两年？

And when I -- I finally came to that realization, my God, that's going to be a long time.

当我——我终于意识到这一点时，天哪，那将是很长一段时间。

And when I - it just kind of hit me all at once.

当我——它一下子击中了我。

And I just took my blanket and kind of balled it up and I just buried my head uh, in this -- in this blanket and just literally screamed with -- with this anguish that it's going to be that long.

我只是拿起我的毯子，把它揉成一团，然后我把头埋进这个毯子里，然后尖叫起来，因为这将是那么长的痛苦。

Two years.

两年了。

And then when I was finished, I felt oh, okay.

然后当我完成时，我感觉哦，好吧。

I -- I -- I can do that.

我——我——我能做到。

I can do two years.

我可以做两年。

Of course, as it turned out, it was two years, and it was two years after that, and two years after that.

当然，事实证明，已经是两年了，又是两年后，又是两年后。

Uh, until it was about seven years in my case.

呃，直到我的情况是大约七年。

You know?

你知道？

But who was to know at that time.

但当时谁知道呢。

We saw them bringing in the uniforms and when we saw this, we said hey, they're getting ready to take us home, see they're putting numbers on it.

我们看到他们带来了制服，当我们看到这一点时，我们说嘿，他们正准备带我们回家，看看他们在上面写了数字。

Then they loaded us into the truck so we had high spirits.

然后他们把我们装上了卡车，所以我们兴高采烈。

But we thought okay, we're getting ready to go home.

但我们想，好吧，我们准备回家了。

.

。

So when they unloaded us and then they finally took us -- took the blindfolds, you know, here this crowd in a square and uh, you said oh no, this is not release.

所以当他们把我们卸下来，然后他们最终带走了我们——带走了眼罩，你知道，广场上的这群人，呃，你说哦，不，这不是释放。

I was tied to uh, Robbie Risner, who said, do not make a gesture of -- to any -- anybody.

我与呃，罗比·里斯纳（Robbie Risner）联系在一起，他说，不要对任何人做出任何手势。

Just march..

就行军..

Each of us had guards posted along each side and just going marching through the -- through the streets.

我们每个人的两侧都有警卫，他们正在穿过街道。

First thing I hear is the -- the -- the uh, people with -- with the megaphones working the crowds up.

我听到的第一件事是——呃，人们——拿着扩音器让人群聚集起来。

And the crowds start chanting and we passed through grandstands where the you know, it's like a football game, you know, and you had the cheerleaders up there except go team go they're saying Alvarez, Alvarez son of a bitch and the crowd go Alvarez, Alvarez son of a bitch, you know.

人群开始高喊口号，我们穿过看台，你知道，这就像一场足球比赛，你知道，那里有拉拉队，除了“团队走”，他们说“阿尔瓦雷斯，阿尔瓦雷斯狗娘养的”，人群开始“阿尔瓦雷斯，阿尔瓦雷斯狗娘养的”，你知道。

The more they worked them up, the greater the frenzy.

他们越激动，就越疯狂。

But the more they pushed you and the guards were trying to pull the crowds off but you know, the next thing you know you had shoes flying and bottles flying and people coming in to -- to show the anger and all of this for the world's cameras.

但他们越推你，警卫就试图把人群拉开，但你知道，接下来你知道鞋子飞扬、瓶子飞扬、人们进来——向全世界的镜头展示愤怒和所有这一切。

It was uh, propaganda thing, the crowd was supposed to be held in restraint just be shaking their fist and screaming.

这是呃，宣传的事情，人群应该受到限制，只是挥舞拳头和尖叫。

That was the scenario.

这就是当时的情景。

They were hitting us in the back of the head with uh, rifle butts to get us to bow our head and I passed the word keep your head up.

他们用呃枪托打我们的后脑勺，让我们低下头，我告诉他们要抬起头。

So we tried to keep our heads up to look like you know, proud Americans.

所以我们努力抬起头，让自己看起来像你们知道的，骄傲的美国人。

The guards are -- are getting uh, pretty scared too because the bayonets that they had pointed at us are now turned to their own people.

警卫们——呃，也很害怕，因为他们原来指着我们的刺刀现在转向了他们自己的人。

Somebody was able to -- to break through and get a pretty good kick on Tom and I just picked him up by the handcuffs and said hey come on Tom, we've got to keep going.

有人能够——突破并狠狠地踢了汤姆一眼，我就抓住了他的手铐，对他说，嘿，来吧，汤姆，我们必须继续前进。

We can't stop now.

我们现在不能停下来。

But that particular evening, I feel I was probably closer to dying than the day I was shot down.

但那天晚上，我觉得我可能比被击落那天更接近死亡。

The most fearsome sound in all the world was keys.

世界上最可怕的声音是钥匙的声音。

When you hear the guard coming with keys.

当你听到警卫带着钥匙过来时。

He's coming to get somebody.

他要来找人。

The guards come around the middle of the night just rattling the lock on your door.

警卫半夜过来，只是把门锁敲得嘎嘎作响。

That's a terrifying thing because they may be taking you out for a torture session.

这是一件可怕的事情，因为他们可能会带你出去受酷刑。

You don't know.

你不知道。

The hardest time that I had in North Vietnam and obviously this is an emotional thing to me, was listening to the screams of other American prisoners while they were being tortured.

我在北越度过的最艰难的时光，显然这对我来说是一件情绪化的事情，就是听到其他美国囚犯在遭受酷刑时的尖叫声。

And being locked in a cell myself sometimes uh, in handcuffs or tied up and not able to do anything about it.

有时我自己被锁在牢房里，呃，戴着手铐或被绑起来，对此无能为力。

And that's the way I've got to spend the night.

这就是我必须度过的夜晚。

And even though we could uh, we could sit down and write something for them and avoid a lot of the pain, uh, our marching orders were different.

即使我们可以，呃，我们可以坐下来为他们写一些东西，避免很多痛苦，呃，我们的行军命令是不同的。

The war was still on.

战争仍在继续。

The enemy was still the enemy.

敌人仍然是敌人。

And our job was either to defeat him or make his victory as difficult as possible.

我们的任务就是要么打败他，要么让他的胜利尽可能困难。

And when you come back and you're full of bruises and my arms turned black and hands turned black and you're starved and you know, you've been gone and you get back together with your roommate and he's gone through hell and you've gone through hell, and -- and you've -- and -- and when you go through this and you have to -- you finally say okay, I've had enough pain, I'll stop.

当你回来时，你浑身是伤，我的手臂变黑了，手变黑了，你饿了，你知道，你走了，你和你的室友回到了一起，他经历了地狱，你也经历了地狱，而且——你已经——而且——当你经历这一切，你必须——你终于说，好吧，我已经受够了痛苦，我会停下来。

I'll -- I'll write.

我会——我会写。

I -- you - you feel so low because you gave in.

我——你——你感觉如此低落，因为你屈服了。

Uh, something that you never thought you would do.

呃，一些你从未想过你会做的事情。

And you realize that they can make you do things you don't want to do.

你意识到他们可以让你做你不想做的事情。

My options were kind of running out and I knew I couldn't stand the pain.

我的选择已经不多了，我知道我无法忍受这种痛苦。

This had gone on for hours and I tried to commit suicide by banging my head against the wall and they uh, stopped me from doing that and after they pulled me away from the wall, I realized they had to uh, comply with their demands, writing a confession or something.

这种情况持续了好几个小时，我试图用头撞墙自杀，他们呃，阻止我这样做，在他们把我从墙上拉开后，我意识到他们必须呃，遵守他们的要求，写一份认罪书什么的。

And -- and after I did it, they put me back in -- in my cell and I just cried like a baby for a long time.

在我这么做之后，他们把我放回牢房，我像个婴儿一样哭了很长一段时间。

Because uh, as I said earlier, you think you'll -- that you let your country down.

因为呃，正如我之前所说，你认为你会让你的国家失望。

And it's kind of a scale.

这是一种规模。

From zero to ten, this guy went all the way to ten and he died in torturer, never gave a class, rank, serial number.

从零到十，这家伙一路到了十，死在酷刑之下，从来没有给出过阶级、军衔、序列号。

This guy you just slap him one time and he gives you everything.

这个家伙，你只要打他一巴掌，他就会给你一切。

So we're all on a line somewhere there.

所以我们都在某个地方排队。

And it just depends if you're on a high end or low end and everybody's different.

这仅取决于您处于高端还是低端，而且每个人都不同。

You can't predict where they are.

你无法预测他们在哪里。

And it doesn't really matter.

这并不重要。

You just all do your best and -- and your best is that's all you can give.

你们只要尽力而为——而你们所能给予的就是最好的。

There's an area where you say okay, I'm going beyond name, rank, serial number and date of birth.

在某个领域，你会说，好吧，我会超越姓名、军衔、序列号和出生日期。

I'm fabricating.

我在捏造。

I'm lying.

我在撒谎。

I'm cheating and I'm stealing.

我在作弊，我在偷窃。

All those things you don't want to do.

所有这些你不想做的事情。

But -- but you can rationalize cause you're not giving away anything that endangers your country, the cause or your fellow, uh, prisoner of war.

但是——但是你可以合理化，因为你不会放弃任何危及你的国家、事业或你的同伴，呃，战俘的东西。

Uh, so then we kind of boil it down to and this is a very popular phrase now, return with honor.

呃，那么我们可以把它归结为现在非常流行的一句话，带着荣誉回来。

Don't do anything that you wouldn't go back and tell somebody else in your cell I did.

如果你不会回去告诉牢房里的其他人我做了什么，就不要做任何事。

And be ashamed.

并感到羞耻。

We were determined to return to the U.S. with honor no matter how long we stayed there.

我们决心无论在美国待多久，都要带着荣誉返回美国。

We were not going to collaborate with -- with the enemy.

我们不会与敌人合作。

And uh, we were going to look out for each other.

呃，我们要互相照顾。

But all we had left in our immediate world out there was each other.

但我们在外面的世界里只剩下彼此了。

All we had were our reputations.

我们所拥有的只是我们的声誉。

We were being tortured to say far less than what senators and congressmen were saying on the house and senate floor as they have a right to.

我们被折磨得说的话远远少于参议员和国会议员在众议院和参议院所有权说的话。

Uh but the newsp -uh--what they played for is after a while for propaganda, were speeches by uh, by politicians.

呃，但是新闻 - 呃 - 他们玩的目的是在一段时间后进行宣传，是呃，政客的演讲。

They didn't have to make up anything.

他们不需要编造任何东西。

They wanted me to talk to them and be interviewed.

他们希望我与他们交谈并接受采访。

I refused to do that but they -- they set me on this stool under our big uh, big sign over my head that said clean and neat.

我拒绝这样做，但他们——他们把我放在这个凳子上，在我头顶上方的大牌子下面，上面写着干净整洁。

.

。

It looked like I was in solitary.

看来我是被单独关押了。

Uh, sitting on this single bed and I extended my middle fingers so I knew that anybody that saw these films would know that I was not doing this voluntarily.

呃，坐在这张单人床上，我伸出中指，这样我知道任何看过这些电影的人都会知道我不是自愿这样做的。

Life Magazine I think to uh, uh, keep me from getting in trouble or maybe it was against the code back then, they couldn't put pictures like that on the cover, airbrushed my fingers out and for years my nephew thought that uh, they -- the Vietnamese had cut off Uncle Paul's middle fingers.

《生活》杂志 我想，呃，呃，让我不要惹上麻烦，或者也许当时是违反规定的，他们不能把那样的照片放在封面上，把我的手指喷出来，多年来我的侄子都认为，呃，他们——越南人砍掉了保罗叔叔的中指。

When I appeared the Vietnamese Communists though they had made a great coup.

当我出现时，越南共产党人虽然取得了伟大的政变。

When they put me out there I played the Mancherian candidate trying to pretend that I was drugged or brainwashed and bowed ninety degrees, bowed to the audience, and then I bowed to the head table.

当他们把我放在那里时，我扮演了曼切里亚候选人，试图假装自己被下药或被洗脑，并鞠躬九十度，向观众鞠躬，然后向主桌鞠躬。

It turned out to be a disaster for them.

事实证明这对他们来说是一场灾难。

Someone from Washington called me and said the -- the magazine's out so I went to the drugstore to try and find it and I -- and there it was and I opened it up and there he was.

华盛顿的一个人打电话给我，说——这本杂志已经出版了，所以我去药店试图找到它，然后我——它就在那里，我打开它，他就在那里。

And that was a real shock because he didn't look like himself obviously.

这真是令人震惊，因为他看起来不像他自己。

But at least he was there.

但至少他在那里。

He was alive.

他还活着。

He was missing for eight months and the way I heard about the fact that he had survived was by getting, two letters from him in the mailbox.

他失踪了八个月，我是通过在邮箱里收到他的两封信才得知他幸存的。

And the second one he started out by saying one thinks of Vietnam is a tropical country but there is cold and darkness, even at noon.

第二个他一开始就说，人们认为越南是一个热带国家，但即使在中午，也很寒冷和黑暗。

And of course, I knew right away that was a signal about the book Darkness at Noon which is a horrible account of the communist treatment of prisoners.

当然，我立刻就知道这是关于《正午的黑暗》这本书的一个信号，这本书对共产主义对待囚犯的可怕描述。

April of 1970.

1970 年 4 月。

This was the first time I really knew for a fact that he was alive.

这是我第一次真正知道他还活着。

Some of the things he said was like uh, Dear Marlene, JJ and Rickie.

他说的一些话就像呃，亲爱的玛琳、JJ 和瑞奇。

He called our son John that we always have called him John.

他给我们的儿子起名叫约翰，我们一直都叫他约翰。

Uh, he called him JJ.

呃，他叫他JJ。

And I thought on my God, he's nuts.

我想到我的上帝，他疯了。

Something's wrong.

出了点问题。

He doesn't even remember our son's name.

他甚至不记得我们儿子的名字。

I didn't know that this was something he was trying to get through or across.

我不知道这是他试图克服或跨越的事情。

And of course Mike's writing was very, very tiny.

当然，迈克的字迹非常非常小。

Certainly was not his normal writing.

当然不是他正常的写作。

And uh, I think when I finally received something and got something from him, I wanted it to be normal.

呃，我想当我终于收到一些东西并从他那里得到一些东西时，我希望它是正常的。

I didn't want it to be anything other than normal.

我不想让它变得不正常。

At first I had a little black and white TV.

起初我有一台黑白小电视。

And when that broke down, I -- I didn't replace it.

当它坏了时，我没有更换它。

I bought uh, a set of encyclopedia uh, for Grant.

我给格兰特买了呃呃一套百科全书呃。

And I -- I just didn't want him to see all the pictures in the newspaper and on TV so we -- we didn't get a daily uh, local newspaper.

我 - 我只是不想让他看到报纸和电视上的所有图片，所以我们 - 我们没有收到每日呃当地报纸。

It bothered me a lot that uh, the pilots were called pirates.

让我很困扰的是，呃，飞行员被称为海盗。

And -- and the people who were so negative about the whole thing.

还有——还有那些对整件事持消极态度的人。

So Steven and I chose to basically not tell anyone that Tom was -- in Vietnam.

所以史蒂文和我选择基本上不告诉任何人汤姆在越南。

I didn't want the children to tease him or taunt him or for him to feel like he was different in any way because his father was a prisoner of war.

我不想让孩子们取笑他或奚落他，也不想让他因为他的父亲是战俘而觉得自己在任何方面都与众不同。

So it did not bother me to be quiet about it.

所以我并没有对此保持沉默。

Cause I wanted to protect my son.

因为我想保护我的儿子。

I know there's somebody else in the uh, in the same uh, building area as I was so I took out my little uh, lock pick and took off my handcuffs and uh, raced down the hallway looking for my uh, fellow prisoner and uh, looked in about three or four cubicles and there's uh, Ensign George Coker and I woke him up and I said it's me.

我知道还有其他人在呃，在同一个呃，建筑区，所以我拿出我的小呃，开锁器，摘下手铐，呃，沿着走廊跑去寻找我的呃，狱友，呃，看了大约三四个隔间，那里有呃，乔治·科克少尉，我叫醒了他，我说是我。

My name is George McKnight and Coker looked up and he says uh, what -- what -- are we -- is it -- are we being freed or what, you know, he's about half asleep.

我的名字叫乔治·麦克奈特，科克抬起头来，他说，呃，什么——什么——我们——是吗——我们被释放了还是什么，你知道，他已经半睡半醒了。

From then on, we started talking about you know, this -- this place would really be easy to get out of.

从那时起，我们开始谈论你知道，这个——这个地方真的很容易离开。

And uh, and it would have been sort of uh, but uh, then what do we do?

呃，这会有点呃，但是呃，那我们该怎么办？

Uh, where are we?

呃，我们在哪儿？

I mean we're somewhere in the middle of Hanoi but we had no idea where to go uh, after we got out of that particular prison.

我的意思是，我们在河内市中心的某个地方，但在我们离开那个特定的监狱后，我们不知道该去哪里。

We're in a box and you get out only to find you're in another box and out of that you're in another box.

我们在一个盒子里，你出来后却发现你在另一个盒子里，再出来你又在另一个盒子里。

So one day I was taken out to get the uh, drinking water for the prison.

所以有一天我被带出去给监狱取呃，饮用水。

And as I went around the corner, I looked in the distance and could see the end of a big bridge and I had knew about the Dumar Bridge and figured it uh, that must be it, so-uh-when I came back I said-uh-well Georgie-uh-I've figured out where we are we could be here for the next twenty years.

当我绕过拐角处时，我向远处望去，可以看到一座大桥的尽头，我知道了杜马尔桥，并且想，嗯，一定是它，所以-呃-当我回来时，我说-呃-好吧，乔治-呃-我已经弄清楚我们在哪里，我们可以在这里度过未来二十年。

Uh, let's at least give it a -- a try.

呃，我们至少尝试一下。

That night uh, we decided to go so I sprang the lock uh, we uh, climbed up on the roof of our prison block and uh, jumped over to another roof., jumped over the wall.

那天晚上呃，我们决定去，所以我打开锁，呃，我们呃，爬上我们监狱的屋顶，呃，跳到另一个屋顶，跳过墙。

Ran down in the direction of uh, the Tanwa Bridge and then we tied ourselves together so we wouldn't get separated in the dark and then we jumped in the river and we proceeded to swim to California!

往呃，炭瓦桥的方向跑下来，然后我们把自己绑在一起，这样就不会在黑暗中走散了，然后我们就跳进河里，继续游去加利福尼亚！

We got about fifteen miles down the river , the sun when it came up uh, we were still swimming down that river and uh, didn't have any really good place to hide.

我们沿着河走了大约十五英里，太阳升起的时候，呃，我们仍然沿着那条河游泳，呃，没有任何真正好的地方可以藏身。

The first place we could find was part of the bank that had separated.

我们第一个找到的地方是已经分离的银行的一部分。

And we jumped in there.

我们跳了进去。

I was facing George and he uh, all of a sudden looked above me and he said well that's it.

我面对着乔治，他呃，突然看着我上方，他说好吧，就这样了。

I says what do you mean that's it?

我说你这是什么意思？

Says well this fisherman just came by and uh, threw his line in the water and uh, just happened to look down and saw us.

说得好，这个渔夫刚刚经过，呃，把他的鱼线扔进水里，呃，恰好低头看到了我们。

Sure enough uh, in the distance, uh, we could see these people running towards us.

果然呃,在远处,呃,我们可以看到这些人向我们这边跑来。

So we just uh, stood there and held our hands over our head.

所以我们只是呃，站在那里，双手举过头顶。

Both George Coker and myself uh, were taken to a little prison which had about eight uh, other people including Commander Denton and uh, Commander Stockdale called Alcatraz in which we spent the next uh, two plus years in solitary confinement.

乔治·科克和我本人，呃，被带到一个小监狱，里面有大约八个人，其他人包括丹顿指挥官和斯托克代尔指挥官，称为恶魔岛，我们在接下来的呃，两年多的单独监禁中度过了。

Let's suppose you took one of the rules of th fighting man code of conduct, it says you will escape at every opportunity and you say okay, can you escape without involving the ones you left behind?

假设你拿起了《战士行为准则》的其中一条规则，它说你会抓住一切机会逃跑，你说好吧，你能在不涉及你留下的人的情况下逃跑吗？

Can you do it all on your own?

你能自己完成这一切吗？

Now if you escape, can you get back to South Vietnam and two hundred miles through enemy territory?

现在如果你逃跑了，你能穿越敌方领土两百英里回到南越吗？

Can you get back there and carry information that you have?

你能回到那里并携带你所掌握的信息吗？

That you have attained while you've been sitting in a seven by seven foot cell.

当你坐在七乘七英尺的牢房里时，你已经达到了这一点。

How will this escape affect all the rest that are left here?

这次逃亡将如何影响留在这里的其他人？

So there was one time when the policy was you will try to escape only if you have outside help.

所以曾经有一段时间，政策是只有在有外部帮助的情况下你才会尝试逃跑。

We had an escape planned for over a year but we had canceled it because once you drop over the wall you're -- you're history because walking around in heavily populated Hanoi uh, six foot four in my case don't look like a Vietnamese, you sure can't speak their language.

我们计划了一年多的逃亡计划，但我们取消了它，因为一旦你翻墙，你就——你就成为历史了，因为在人口稠密的河内走来走去，呃，就我而言，六英尺四英寸的身高看起来不像越南人，你肯定不会说他们的语言。

You know your chances are -- of making it are gone.

你知道你成功的机会已经消失了。

But one night, I decided to go and -- and it cost us dearly.

但有一天晚上，我决定去——这让我们付出了高昂的代价。

John Drameci and Ed Atterbury were the two that left.

约翰·德拉梅奇和埃德·阿特伯里是离开的两个人。

Uh, the seven remaining were taken out into individual uh, interrogation rooms that morning and put through the torture program again.

呃,剩下的七个人,早上就被带到单独的呃审讯室,又进行了一次酷刑。.

Hard torture.

严酷的折磨。

Irons, ropes, beatings, this went on for two weeks.

铁棍、绳索、殴打，这样持续了两周。

At first day they caught them and brought them back and they killed Ed that first night in torture.

第一天他们就抓住了他们并将他们带回来，并在第一天晚上用酷刑杀害了埃德。

Ed Atterbury.

埃德·阿特伯里。

He died that night.

当晚他就去世了。

Then they went to the other rooms, took the senior ranking guys, put them through two weeks of hard torture.

然后他们去了其他房间，带走了高级人员，对他们进行了两周的严刑拷打。

Put them in leg irons.

把他们戴上脚镣。

Then they went to the other camps, pulled the senior guys out, did the same.

然后他们去了其他营地，把高级人员拉了出来，做了同样的事情。

They went through the whole prison system and pulled people out, tortured them, broke them to find out if any -- they had any escape plans, how the communication systems were set up and things like that.

他们走遍了整个监狱系统，把人拉出来，折磨他们，打碎他们，看看是否有任何人——他们有任何越狱计划，通讯系统是如何建立的等等。

So it -- it hurt us a lot of people were hurt.

所以它伤害了我们很多人。

And uh, it wasn't uh, it wasn't worth it.

呃，这不，呃，不值得。

I was morose and I decided to cut my wrists and did so -- and finally passed out in the blood and uh, the next thing I knew, I was awakened.

我心情郁闷，决定割腕，然后就这么做了——最后在血泊中昏倒了，呃，接下来我就醒了。

I was rolled over on my back.

我被翻了个身仰面朝天。

The room was full of soldiers and officers.

房间里挤满了士兵和军官。

Uh, and saying why did you do it?

呃，然后说你为什么这么做？

Why did you do it.

你为什么这么做。

The thought kind of haunted me.

这个想法一直困扰着我。

Why didn't they just let me die?

他们为什么不让我死呢？

I would just like to tell my wife that I will get well, that I love her, and I hope to see her soon.

我只想告诉我的妻子，我会康复，我爱她，我希望很快就能见到她。

and I'd appreciate it if you told her that.

如果你告诉她这一点，我将不胜感激。

John McCain became my second roommate.

约翰·麦凯恩成为我的第二个室友。

He was uh, absolutely on the verge of death when I first saw him.

当我第一次见到他时，他呃，绝对处于死亡的边缘。

He'd been terribly wounded.

他受了重伤。

Uh, broken up in a bail out.

呃，在保释中分手了。

His knee was very dysfunctional.

他的膝盖功能非常失调。

He was in a body cast that was just grotesque.

他的身体模型非常怪异。

His arm poked out of his cast like a twig sticking out of a snowman.

他的手臂从石膏中伸出来，就像一根树枝从雪人身上伸出来一样。

I believed that I was, uh, that I was dying.

我相信我，呃，我快要死了。

They had said that there was no medical treatment given unless you provide military information.

他们曾表示，除非你提供军事信息，否则不会提供任何治疗。

And I wouldn't do that.

我不会那样做。

About some hours later because I went back in unconsciousness the door of the cell came open and the interrogator said your father is an Admiral.

大约几个小时后，因为我昏迷不醒地回去，牢房的门打开了，审讯者说你的父亲是一名海军上将。

A big Admiral.

一位大将军。

And I said uh, yes, my father is an Admiral.

我说，呃，是的，我父亲是一名海军上将。

And he says we going to take you to the hospital where they gave me some blood transfusions.

他说我们要带你去医院，他们给我输了一些血。

My condition didn't improve.

我的病情并没有好转。

And so they took and put me in with uh, two other POWs.

所以他们把我和呃，另外两名战俘关在一起。

And I was just positive when he came into the room, I said to myself you know, they've dumped him on us to make it look as if we let him die.

当他走进房间时我很肯定，我对自己说，你知道，他们把他扔给我们，让我们看起来好像让他死了。

We had an Air Force Major named Norris Overly who was uh, sort of acting as nurse for both of us.

我们有一位空军少校，名叫诺里斯·奥弗利（Norris Overly），他是我们俩的护士。

So this fellow was basically feeding John and washed him for the first time I'm sure since he'd been in Hanoi.

所以这个家伙基本上是在给约翰喂食并给他洗澡，我确信自从他来到河内以来这是他第一次。

John was determined that he was going to live and determined to try to move and get his body going and -- and that in itself was just excruciating for him but uh, one of those things that -- that you have to do if you're going to survive.

约翰决心他要活下去，并决心尝试移动并让他的身体运转起来——这本身对他来说就是痛苦的，但是呃，其中一件事——如果你想生存，你就必须做。

They took very good care of me.

他们非常照顾我。

And I view the fact that I lived to their care.

我认为我是在他们的照顾下生活的。

We did start to get an inkling that an early release was being discussed with certain prisoners.

我们确实开始感觉到，正在与某些囚犯讨论提前释放的问题。

That's when Hervy Stockman who was uh, the senior guy at the -- at the plantation at that time uh, he'd passed the word, make sure everybody understands that -- that there is no early release.

就在那时，赫维·斯托克曼（Hervy Stockman），呃，当时种植园的资深人士，呃，他传递了一句话，确保每个人都明白——没有提前释放。

Let sick and wounded go first and then order a shoot down.

先让伤病员走，然后下令击落。

Do you know why you were chosen to be released?

你知道为什么你被选中释放吗？

We had no idea.

我们不知道。

They were looking for a propaganda counter to their awful publicity over the Hanoi march.

他们正在寻找一种宣传手段来对抗他们对河内游行的可怕宣传。

Ed Alvarez got shot down twenty two months before I did.

艾德·阿尔瓦雷斯比我早二十两个月被击落。

There were several who were in horrible pain and from some of the war wounds they had.

有几个人正承受着可怕的痛苦，其中有一些是因为战争所受的伤。

There was just no way I was going to uh, uh, go early before they did.

我根本不可能，呃，比他们早去。

They did make statements uh, how well the Vietnamese were treating them and us and they -- that was wrong.

他们确实发表了声明，呃，越南人对待他们、我们和他们有多好——这是错误的。

Captain, how were you treated?

队长，你的待遇如何？

Uh, very good sir.

嗯，非常好的先生。

Sir, how many prisoners are there over there?

先生，那边有多少囚犯？

Gentlemen, we'll have to break this up.

先生们，我们必须打破这个局面。

Ed and I used to be tasked with, uh, cleaning the pig sties everyday and uh, Metheny's cell was right next to the pig sty so we actually, with one of us looking out, the other one was able to -- to talk to Metheny through his door.

艾德和我过去的任务是，呃，每天清理猪圈，呃，梅瑟尼的牢房就在猪圈旁边，所以我们实际上，一个人往外看，另一个人就可以——通过他的门与梅瑟尼交谈。

We'd tell him the word was, don't go.

我们会告诉他，不要走。

That's -- that's what the code is supposed to foster is the idea that any kind of a special favor is the wrong thing.

这就是——这就是该守则应该培养的观念，即任何形式的特殊恩惠都是错误的。

Regardless of how that's applied to you.

不管这如何适用于你。

Whether it's an early release, better living conditions, more food or getting something that other prisoners do not get is not acceptable.

无论是提前释放、更好的生活条件、更多的食物还是得到其他囚犯得不到的东西都是不可接受的。

I was called up to interrogation.

我被叫去审问。

The uh, head of all the camps was there, a fellow we called The Cat.

呃，所有营地的负责人都在那里，我们称之为“猫”的人。

He said uh, would you like to go home?

他说呃，你想回家吗？

I said I'd have to think about that.

我说我必须考虑一下。

The question on my mind was whether I could survive.

我脑子里的问题是我是否能活下来。

On the morning of the fourth of July, he said what's your final answer, and I said uh, my -- my answer is still no and he said to me in English, they taught you too well.

7 月 4 日早上，他说你的最终答案是什么，我说，呃，我的——我的答案仍然是“否”，他用英语对我说，他们教你太好了。

And uh, kicked the chair over behind him and left and the interrogator looked at me and said things are going to be very bad for you now.

然后呃，踢翻了他身后的椅子然后离开了，审讯者看着我说现在你的处境将会非常糟糕。

He was right.

他是对的。

It was a matter of dignity.

这是一个尊严问题。

All we had left of what we were is our name and our honor.

我们所剩下的就是我们的名字和我们的荣誉。

And I don't know if that makes any sense the way I'm trying to describe this or not but that's just all you have left and you won't give it up.

我不知道我试图描述的方式是否有意义，但这就是你所剩下的一切，你不会放弃它。

So no, you're not going to take an early release under less than acceptable conditions.

因此，不，您不会在低于可接受的条件下提前发布。

You won't do it.

你不会这么做的。

At least I wouldn't do it.

至少我不会这么做。

A young man by the name of Douglas Hegdahl the III, a seaman apprentice who fell off the U.S.S.

一位名叫道格拉斯·赫格达尔三世的年轻人，是一名从美国航空母舰上坠落的海员学徒。

Kembara was one of twelve early releasees and he was the only legitimate releasee.

肯巴拉是十二名早期释放者之一，也是唯一合法的释放者。

He had the names of 256 aviators memorized.

他记住了 256 名飞行员的名字。

I was put in with an Air Force officer Joe Craga.

我被安排和空军军官乔·克拉加 (Joe Craga) 一起工作。

He thought that if anybody would be released it would probably be me so I started to commit all names to memory.

他认为如果有人会被释放，那可能就是我，所以我开始记住所有的名字。

And at first I thought it be an impossible task.

起初我认为这是一项不可能完成的任务。

He said make it a rhythm or a jingle so it was like this, I'll give you an example.

他说让它成为节奏或顺口溜，所以就像这样，我给你举个例子。

It was two hundred sixty eventually.

最终已经两百六十了。

I used to have a little skit I'd go through.

我曾经演过一个小品。

It was like this lieutenant colonels Korjem, Used in the Margo, (Unintelligible).

就像这位 Korjem 中校，用在 Margo 中（难以理解）。

And when I got back I told uh, I was telling my debriefer and he says can you slow it down?

当我回来时，我告诉呃，我正在告诉我的汇报人，他说你能放慢速度吗？

I said no, it's like riding a bicycle, you know, you tip over.

我说不，这就像骑自行车，你知道，你会翻倒。

You know?

你知道？

Doug was ordered to go home.

道格被命令回家。

I passed the order to him myself so I know it's a fact.

我亲自将命令传给了他，所以我知道这是事实。

Because he had those names.

因为他有这些名字。

And he says I don't want to go.

然后他说我不想去。

And I said this is a direct order, you don't have a choice.

我说这是直接命令，你没有选择。

You will go home.

你会回家的。

You will accept early release.

您将接受提前释放。

It started around somebody's kitchen table in San Diego.

它始于圣地亚哥某人的厨房餐桌。

The goal really was to increase public awareness and to get the support of the -- the public to write and to wear the bracelets and that sort of thing.

我们的目标实际上是提高公众意识并获得公众的支持，让他们写信、戴手镯之类的。

We very much wanted the policy to be changed.

我们非常希望改变政策。

This keep quiet policy we called it where you never talked to the press and never told anything about your husband

我们称之为“保持安静政策”，即你从未与媒体交谈，也从未告诉过任何有关你丈夫的事情

We were trying to personalize it.

我们试图将其个性化。

I told the story about Paul, showed his picture, told about his life.

我讲述了保罗的故事，展示了他的照片，讲述了他的生活。

Our goal was to have the world know what was going on and so hopefully they would exert pressure on the North Vietnamese to improve the treatment.

我们的目标是让世界知道正在发生的事情，因此希望他们能够向北越施加压力，以改善治疗。

We are in Paris where we hope to be able to meet privately with North Vietnamese representatives at the Paris Peace Talks.

我们现在在巴黎，希望能够在巴黎和谈中与北越代表私下会面。

Our husbands have been missing from eight months to four years and we are hopeful North Vietnamese representatives will tell us if we are wives or widows.

我们的丈夫失踪了八个月到四年，我们希望北越代表能告诉我们我们是妻子还是寡妇。

On May 19, 1969, Melvin Laird who was then Secretary of Defense made the declaration that the prisoners were not being treated humanely.

1969年5月19日，时任国防部长梅尔文·莱尔德宣布囚犯没有受到人道对待。

That was a great satisfaction to me and to all of us wives who had been working so hard just because the policy was changed.

这对我和我们所有因为政策改变而辛苦工作的妻子来说是一种极大的满足。

There were two seasons there.

那里有两个季节。

Winter and Summer.

冬天和夏天。

Spring is twenty four hours in Vietnam.

越南的春天是二十四小时。

It rains right up until the end of April sometime and then the sun comes out and it burns you alive.

雨一直下到四月底，然后太阳出来了，把你活活烧死。

And uh, the thing I remember the most, it got so hot, I mean it really got hot, your eyes would swell shut, you wouldn't get enough salt.

呃，我记得最清楚的一件事是，天气变得很热，我的意思是真的很热，你的眼睛会肿得睁不开，你得不到足够的盐。

Your heat rash.

你的痱子。

And the sun would radiate all day on these rooms and then the walls would radiate all night.

阳光会整天照射在这些房间上，然后墙壁会整夜照射。

And you lived twenty three hours and forty five minutes a day in that room.

你每天在那个房间里生活二十三小时四十五分钟。

And when you're outside which is probably the accumulation of time to empty your honey bucket which is a two and a half gallon can which was your latrine facility, to go outside and get your meals twice a day, ten o'clock in the morning, two o'clock in the afternoon.

当你在外面的时候，这可能是为了清空你的蜂蜜桶（一个两加仑半的罐子，这是你的厕所设施）的累积时间，每天两次出去吃饭，早上十点，下午两点。

And to go down to bathe out of a well.

又下井去沐浴。

And then the rest of the time you're back in that room.

然后剩下的时间你就回到那个房间。

And it's -- it's kind of what you call closed quarters.

这就是你们所说的封闭空间。

But when you first are locked up for a month or so you -- you think that uh, I'm going to lose my mind.

但当你第一次被关押一个月左右时，你会想，呃，我会失去理智。

I'm going to go crazy.

我要发疯了。

But then suddenly it dawns on you uh, uh, tough luck.

但你突然意识到，呃，呃，运气不好。

Uh, you're -- you're going to have to get to know yourself.

呃，你——你必须了解自己。

Uh, and -- and you do.

呃，而且——你确实这么做了。

And you -- you -- you discipline yourself.

而你——你——你约束自己。

You don't just slop around.

你不只是闲逛。

When you get out of bed you have something to do.

当你起床时，你有事可做。

You have time set aside for exercises.

你有时间留出练习。

You have a time set aside to memorize -- to go over your list.

你需要留出时间来记忆——复习你的清单。

The lists of the names of the prisoners.

囚犯名单。

You have to recite them to yourself at least twice a day.

你必须每天至少给自己背诵两次。

And we had lists that were like five hundred people on them by the end.

到最后我们的名单上已经有大约五百人了。

You have time for prayer.

你有时间祈祷。

There is no time when you're just lounging around.

没有时间你只是闲逛。

You've got to keep your mind active.

你必须保持头脑活跃。

You've got to think about your tactics.

你必须考虑你的策略。

You've got to think, think, think!

你必须思考、思考、思考！

I would lose myself in -- in thought of -- of building a house for example you know, I knew how many bricks would go into this house.

我会沉浸在建造一座房子的想法中，例如，你知道，我知道这座房子需要多少块砖。

I mean this was a project that would go on for months and months.

我的意思是，这是一个需要持续数月的项目。

I was an engineer by training and so I would go back and calculate you know, the value of the sine of eight degrees to you know, to six decimal points or so and you didn't have pencil or paper.

我是一名受过训练的工程师，所以我会回去计算八度的正弦值，精确到小数点后六位左右，而你没有铅笔或纸。

You do this all in -- in your mind.

这一切都是在你的脑海中完成的。

I wrote this poem uh, the Voices of God uh, the mournful wail of a distant train, the rooftop patter of a soft spring rain.

我写了这首诗呃，上帝的声音呃，远处火车的悲鸣，轻柔春雨的屋顶淅淅沥沥的声音。

The crash of thunder in the skies above, the words I love you, from the woman I love.

天空中雷声隆隆，我爱的女人说着我爱你。

Not bad huh?

还不错吧？

The only time I ever cried in prison was when I would dwell on my wife and my children and what are they doing and what's going on and how tough it must be for them.

我在监狱里唯一一次哭泣是当我想起我的妻子和孩子们，他们在做什么，正在发生什么，以及他们的处境有多么艰难。

And uh, and it turned out some people said I don't want to think about my family, it's just too tough.

呃，结果有些人说我不想考虑我的家人，这太艰难了。

And they'd think of something else.

他们会想到别的事情。

They'd go watch spiders or try to trap a rat or try to do something else but anything to keep their mind off their family.

他们会去看蜘蛛，或者尝试捕捉老鼠，或者尝试做其他事情，但任何能让他们不去想家人的事情。

We knew very little about what was happening in the world.

我们对世界上正在发生的事情知之甚少。

All of it came second hand for instance the man landing on the moon was discovered because someone got a letter that had a postage stamp with uh, Neal Armstrong's picture on it.

所有这些都是二手的，例如，登陆月球的人被发现是因为有人收到一封信，上面贴着呃，尼尔阿姆斯特朗的照片的邮票。

On the Moon.

在月球上。

They would bring film in that was made here in the states, the burnings of the cities and all of that.

他们会把在各州制作的电影、城市的焚烧等等带到这里。

We got to see that.

我们必须看到这一点。

And uh, just about every one of us was very upset.

呃，几乎我们每个人都非常沮丧。

We couldn't understand what was happening to the American people.

我们无法理解美国人民正在发生什么。

We felt that well okay, this is the American way.

我们觉得很好，这就是美国方式。

You can -- you can demonstrate but uh, a lot of us were uh, a little dismayed as to why are they doing this.

你可以——你可以证明，但是呃，我们很多人都呃，对他们为什么这样做有点沮丧。

They'd tell us you know, oh, there are all kinds of parades in Washington, D.C. or you know, the anti war protests you know, just tuned all that stuff out.

他们会告诉我们，哦，华盛顿特区有各种各样的游行，或者你知道，反战抗议，你知道，只是把所有这些东西都关掉。

And uh, because certainly if we -- as military people, if we didn't question the value of the war as we went into it, you know, sitting in prison wasn't the time to start re-examining whether we ought to be there or not.

呃，因为当然，如果我们——作为军人，如果我们在进入战争时不质疑战争的价值，你知道，坐在监狱里并不是开始重新审视我们是否应该去那里的时候。

All of us came up with our own exercise programs.

我们所有人都制定了自己的锻炼计划。

Some people their exercise program was laying under a blanket and waiting for the war to go away.

有些人把他们的锻炼计划放在毯子下，等待战争结束。

Some of the rest of us uh, got almost ridiculous with our -- our exercise programs.

我们其他人中的一些人，呃，对我们的——我们的锻炼计划几乎感到可笑。

You -- you find that you can walk about uh, fifteen or twenty miles in a six foot long room if you just turn around enough times.

你——你发现，如果你转身足够多的次数，你可以在一个六英尺长的房间里走大约十五或二十英里。

The ten months that I spent in the blacked out cell I went into panic.

我在漆黑的牢房里度过了十个月，我陷入了恐慌。

The only thing I could do was exercise.

我唯一能做的就是锻炼身体。

As long as I could move, I felt like I was going to -- well, it was so bad I would put a rag in my mouth and hold another one over it so I could scream.

只要我还能动，我就感觉自己会——好吧，这太糟糕了，我会把一块布放进嘴里，再用另一块布盖住，这样我就可以尖叫。

That seemed to help.

这似乎有帮助。

It's not that I was scared, more scared than another other time or anything.

这并不是说我害怕，而是比其他时候或其他任何事情都更害怕。

It was happening to my nerves and my mind.

这发生在我的神经和思想上。

And uh, I had to move or die.

呃，我必须搬家，否则就会死。

I'd wake up at two o'clock in the morning or midnight or three or whatever and I would jump up immediately and start running in place.

我会在凌晨两点或午夜或三点或其他什么时候醒来，然后我会立即跳起来并开始原地跑步。

Side straddle hops.

侧跨跳。

Maybe four hours of sit ups.

也许四个小时的仰卧起坐。

But I had to exercise.

但我必须锻炼。

And of course I prayed a lot.

当然，我也经常祈祷。

The Sunday church service, it's a very simple happening on a Sunday morning where the senior man of each building would make some kind of a sound that we could all hear and we'd all stand up in the middle of the room, bow our heads and say the Lord's Prayer.

周日的教堂礼拜非常简单，发生在周日早上，每栋楼的老人都会发出某种我们都能听到的声音，然后我们都会站在房间中央，低下头，念主祷文。

And then a short time later, he'd make another sound, we'd all turn, face the east because we figured that was the shortest distance to the United States.

过了一会儿，他又发出一声声音，我们都转身面向东方，因为我们认为那是到美国的最短距离。

Uh, we'd put our hand over our heart and we said the Pledge of Allegiance.

呃，我们把手放在心上，宣誓效忠。

We'd do this every single Sunday that we were in North Vietnam.

我们在北越的每个周日都会这样做。

I'd be saying that well maybe I'll be home by labor day.

我想说的是，也许我会在劳动节之前回家。

Or maybe I'll be home by Thanksgiving.

或者也许我会在感恩节之前回家。

So setting those short term targets was very helpful for me in order to keep my morale up.

因此，设定这些短期目标对我保持士气非常有帮助。

Before you know it there's another Christmas here.

不知不觉间，这里又迎来了一个圣诞节。

Then you start counting Christmases and it gets to be four or five and six.

然后你开始数圣诞节，结果有四、五、六。

And then you -- you know you've been there a while.

然后你——你知道你已经在那里有一段时间了。

And I had an undying faith that uh, my country was not going to forget me.

我有一个永恒的信念，我的国家不会忘记我。

No matter how long I stayed there, no matter even if I died there, my country was not going to forget me.

无论我在那里呆多久，无论我死在那里，我的国家都不会忘记我。

I was -- I was vital and as an individual I was a precious entity to my country.

我是——我是至关重要的，作为个人，我是我的国家的一个宝贵实体。

And I believed that.

我相信这一点。

And so that helped sustain me cause I knew as long as I stayed alive, that I was going to get back.

这帮助我维持下去，因为我知道只要我还活着，我就会回来。

When Ho Chi Minh dies, everything sorta started to improve from that period on.

胡志明去世后，从那时起一切都开始有所改善。

At that point, torture as a general rule stopped.

从那时起，酷刑作为一般规则就停止了。

And torture came from the highest levels of command.

酷刑来自最高层指挥。

It was not something, some drunken camp commander did.

这不是什么事情，某个醉酒的营长干的。

Because on one day they had authority to torture and the next day they didn't.

因为有一天他们有权施行酷刑，第二天他们就没有权力了。

I had the experience of Cat, who was promoted from Major to about Lieutenant Colonel while we were there.

我有卡特的经历，我们在那里的时候，她从少校晋升到了中校。

And he announced to me, a major policy statement.

他向我宣布了一项重大政策声明。

Some officers and some guards had become so angry at what the Americans were doing to their country that they had far exceeded the limits which the government had wished they would uh, observe in treatment of prisoners.

一些军官和一些警卫对美国人对他们国家所做的事情感到非常愤怒，以至于他们远远超出了政府希望他们在对待囚犯时遵守的限制。

That they had um, brutally tortured us.

他们对我们进行了残酷的折磨。

That was the first time they ever acknowledged that it was torture not punishment.

这是他们第一次承认这是酷刑而不是惩罚。

They were in effect, without mentioning Ho Chi Minh's name, passing the knowledge that Ho Chi Minh had been so lax as to let this happen.

他们实际上没有提及胡志明的名字，而是让人们知道胡志明是如此松懈，以至于让这种事情发生。

Or maybe had even ordered it, but now that he's dead we're fixing things.

或者甚至可能已经订购了它，但现在他死了，我们正在修复问题。

They never went so far as to observe the Geneva Conventions, but they made life better for us, from then on.

他们从未遵守《日内瓦公约》，但从那时起，他们让我们的生活变得更好。

On the night of the big raid, we could hear the helicopters.

在大袭击的那天晚上，我们可以听到直升机的声音。

We could see the flares we could hear the fires going on we could hear the big booms of the larger caliber guns going off.

我们可以看到照明弹，可以听到火势，可以听到大口径火炮爆炸的轰鸣声。

Uh, -- somethin'- something's going on over there.

呃，——有什么——那边发生了什么事。

This raid where commandos came in and tried to pull us out.

在这次突袭中，突击队介入并试图将我们拉出来。

That took us from individual, isolated solitary confinement, isolation and stuff like that and slammed a whole mess of us together.

这让我们摆脱了个人、孤立的单独监禁、孤立之类的感觉，并将我们整个混乱地团结在一起。

And then we really got organized as the fourth allied P.O.W.

然后我们真正组织起来，成为第四个盟军战俘。

wing.

翼。

The motto, decided upon by our Senior leaders was, 'Return with Honor'.

我们的高级领导人决定的座右铭是“带着荣誉回来”。

Returning by itself uh, without honor was not going to be satisfactory.

自己回来呃，没有荣誉是不会令人满意的。

Um, having the honor but never returning would be uh, something short of what uh, our ultimate goal was.

嗯，有荣誉但永远不会回来将是，呃，距离我们的最终目标是什么。

Of course we'd all known each other, everything about each other, but in a lot of cases, we hadn't seen each other.

当然，我们都互相了解，了解彼此的一切，但在很多情况下，我们并没有见过对方。

So, uh, the first few days it was unreal.

所以，呃，最初几天这是不真实的。

And just being in that room with forty other roommates was just the most wonderful medicine that anybody could ever give ya.

和其他四十个室友一起待在那个房间里，就是任何人都能给你的最美妙的良药。

Resistance posture was unified.

抵抗姿态统一。

You were reinforced in trying to do what was right.

你在尝试做正确的事情上得到了加强。

And then, we educated each other.

然后，我们互相教育。

People were teaching Spanish and Russian and uh, quantum physics and you name it, we we're teaching international relations.

人们在教西班牙语和俄语，呃，量子物理学，凡是你能想到的，我们正在教国际关系。

We had evenings at the movies.

我们晚上去看电影。

I was the John Wayne guy.

我是约翰·韦恩那个人。

I used to tell all the movies I'd ever seen about John Wayne's adventures.

我以前看过的所有电影都讲述约翰·韦恩的冒险经历。

I'd- I'd tell the guys bring their cups to class, these little tin cups we had or porcelain cups we had.

我会告诉大家带杯子来上课，我们有这些小锡杯或瓷杯。

And I'd go around and I'd say I am pouring for you uh, Mozell, Vintiger Schlaben- Schlagen .

我会到处走走，说我正在为你倒酒，呃，Mozell，Vintiger Schlaben-Schlagen。

Okay, and I am pouring for you now a uh, burgundy wine there from France.

好的，我现在为您倒一杯来自法国的勃艮第葡萄酒。

Now, when would I serve that wine.

现在，我什么时候提供那瓶酒呢？

We had a uh, a bamboo stick that we used to, to uh, flush the uh, our- our body fluids down a hole outside.

我们有一根呃，一根竹棍，我们用来呃，把呃，我们的体液冲进外面的一个洞里。

And uh, we called it, it was- it was a shit stick.

呃，我们称它为——它是一根狗屎棒。

And uh, we'd sneak that in at night and, and uh, a good golfer named uh, Keith Hall, would teach us how to play golf at nighttime and how to grip it and how to swing, how to play golf using this stick.

呃，我们会在晚上偷偷地把它带进去，呃，一位名叫呃，Keith Hall 的优秀高尔夫球手会教我们如何在夜间打高尔夫球，如何握球，如何挥杆，如何使用这根球杆打高尔夫球。

As strange as it sounds it was a quality life.

听起来很奇怪，但这是一种优质的生活。

In this particular night we heard the roar of the engines.

在这个特殊的夜晚，我们听到了发动机的轰鸣声。

Little different from what we'd been used to.

和我们以前习惯的没什么不同。

Just constant roar, but lotta engines.

只是持续不断的轰鸣声，但发动机却很强劲。

We hadn't heard that since March of '68.

自 68 年 3 月以来我们就没有听说过这个消息了。

And all of a sudden there's a lot of action.

突然间有很多行动。

The Vietnamese start firing missles.

越南人开始发射导弹。

And they were going over the rooftops of the camp.

他们正在越过营地的屋顶。

We bombed them for ten days.

我们轰炸了他们十天。

And we saw aircraft being shot down.

我们看到飞机被击落。

And there is this huge, burning flame falling out of the sky.

还有这巨大的、燃烧着的火焰从天而降。

And all we could say, we hope the guys get out, you know, we hope they made it.

我们只能说，我们希望这些家伙能够出去，你知道，我们希望他们能够成功。

All night the 52's would come in the area and all day the A6's and F4's and all and others.

整个晚上，52 型坦克都会出现在该地区，而 A6 型、F4 型以及其他车辆则整天都会出现在该地区。

So I could fully understand the dismay the population musta had with continual bombing, bombing, bombing.

所以我完全可以理解人们对不断的轰炸、轰炸、轰炸的沮丧。

The guards wouldn't even man the towers anymore.

守卫甚至不再看守塔楼。

When finally Christmas '72 came around and uh, and uh, right after that the bombing ceased.

当 72 年圣诞节终于到来时，呃，呃，爆炸就在那之后停止了。

We knew it was a real thing.

我们知道这是真的。

One day, they took us all out had us line in military formation, which they had never allowed before.

有一天，他们把我们全部带走，让我们排成军事队形，这是他们以前从未允许的。

And they said well the uh, Paris Peace Talks have, come to a conclusion and uh, the war is over.

他们说得好，呃，巴黎和谈已经结束了，呃，战争结束了。

Uh, you will all be leaving in about uh, thirty days or something like that.

呃，你们都会在大约呃，三十天之类的时间内离开。

And I'd always imagined the scene uh, like in the movies where you break into wild, hilarious cheering and everything else.

我一直想象着这个场景，呃，就像在电影中，你会爆发出疯狂、搞笑的欢呼声和其他一切。

But instead it was kind of a quiet uh, somber uh, period.

但相反，那是一段安静的，呃，阴郁的时期。

A lot of us old timers uh, the ol- the old- the old guys, really were emotionally drained.

我们很多老前辈，呃，那些老——那些老——那些老家伙，真的都精神疲惫了。

There was no emotion.

没有任何情绪。

It was, I'll believe it when I see it.

是的，当我看到它时我会相信它。

We already had our shoes and everything- I mean real shoes such as they were we were going to walk out in shoes.

我们已经有了鞋子和所有东西——我的意思是真正的鞋子，就像我们要穿着鞋子走路一样。

And they opened the door and they said make coal balls.

他们打开门，说做煤球。

We said what?!

我们说啥？！

We're going home.

我们要回家了。

He said no the cease fire is broken down, you violated it.

他说不，停火协议被打破了，你违反了。

That was my worst fear.

这是我最担心的事情。

Because we had had so many ups and downs.

因为我们经历了太多的风风雨雨。

In the early days they would give you a banana you thought you were going home, it was a fattening up program.

早期他们会给你一根香蕉，你以为你要回家了，这是一个增肥计划。

But the day finally came.

但这一天终于来了。

We were lined up to go out of the- outta the prison to go board buses.

我们排着队准备出监狱去乘公共汽车。

For the first time we were not blind folds, we were not handcuffed, we were just in our new garb.

我们第一次没有蒙住眼睛，没有戴上手铐，只是穿着新衣服。

I walked out with just the clothes that the Vietnamese issued, I didn't take any souvenirs back.

我只带了越南人发的衣服就出去了，没有带任何纪念品。

I- I said forget- this is a- been a nice experience, I can chalk it up.

我-我说忘记了-这是一次很好的经历，我可以把它记下来。

It's something I've- what is it?

这是我拥有的东西——它是什么？

uh, been there, done that!

呃，去过那里，做到了！

Whatever it is, uh, I don't need anything to remind me.

不管是什么，呃，我不需要任何东西来提醒我。

They had let all of Hanoi to watch us come out with our heads down.

他们让整个河内的人都看着我们低着头出来。

We marched out in step with our heads high.

我们昂首挺胸，齐心协力地往外走。

We actually managed to pull off a column right and halt right at the bus.

实际上，我们成功地从右侧拉出一列并在公共汽车前停下来。

It was uh, it was pretty impressive.

嗯，这真是令人印象深刻。

Personally, I was so emotionally drained I think, of so many expectations in the past and so many disappointments and failures.

就我个人而言，我认为过去有太多的期望，也有太多的失望和失败，我的情绪已经耗尽。

So many close friends you lost, people that you live with that you,- they went away and you never saw them again.

你失去了那么多亲密的朋友，那些和你住在一起的人，他们离开了，你再也见不到他们了。

You became cold, you developed a shield that was for protection.

你变得寒冷，你开发了一个用于保护的盾牌。

So that you wouldn't let your emotions run away.

这样你就不会让情绪失控。

I can see this beautiful C-141, an American plane at close range with the American flag on it, U.S. Air Force.

我可以近距离看到这架漂亮的C-141，一架美国飞机，上面挂着美国国旗，美国空军。

An American ci- uh, military, uniform personnel, fifty or hundred yards from me.

一个美国公民，呃，军人，穿制服的人员，距离我五十或一百码。

You don't know the feeling it gave me and i'm sure everybody else.

你不知道它给我的感觉，我相信其他人也知道。

You know fighter pilots have a tendency to look down their nose at cargo plane pilots, but this was beautiful; had Red Cross and American Air Force on it.

你知道战斗机飞行员往往会看不起货机飞行员，但这很漂亮；上面有红十字会和美国空军。

I said, well I guess we really are gonna go home.

我说，好吧，我想我们真的要回家了。

So they took us off the bus and lined us up.

于是他们把我们带下车并让我们排队。

You know we have a de-marcation line.

你知道我们有一条分界线。

You're free when you cross the line.

当你越过界限时，你就自由了。

Your still theirs over here and you belong to the U.S. when you get there.

你在这里仍然是他们的，当你到达那里时你就属于美国了。

I looked over and there's The Rabbit over there, the famous interrogator, calling off our names and that was our last look at The Rabbit.

我看过去，那边有兔子，著名的审讯者，正在叫出我们的名字，那是我们最后一次看兔子。

And as luck would have it when I stepped across the line and stuck my hand out, there was an old friend there to greet me.

幸运的是，当我跨过终点线并伸出手时，有一位老朋友在那里迎接我。

Someone I had known before.

我以前认识的一个人。

I saluted and I kept a very stern military face and I refused to let myself smile until I rounded the corner and went up the ramp into the C-141.

我敬了个礼，保持着一张非常严肃的军人表情，我拒绝让自己微笑，直到我转过拐角，走上坡道进入 C-141。

And then the smile broke out and in inside everyone was pandemonium.

然后笑容爆发了，每个人内心都一片混乱。

I- it- we're all hugging and, not hugging, but guys don't hug, girls hug.

我-它-我们都在拥抱，但不是拥抱，但男生不拥抱，女生拥抱。

But we were all just you know, shakin' hands and talkin' with the Air Force personnel.

但我们都只是你知道的，与空军人员握手、交谈。

Now it was quiet again as we took off and rolled down the runway and everybody's real silent.

现在，当我们起飞并沿着跑道滑行时，周围又恢复了安静，每个人都非常安静。

And as the wheels broke the ground we just went into pandemonium.

当车轮破土而出时，我们陷入了混乱。

They almost tore the guts out of that airplane.

他们几乎把那架飞机的内脏撕下来。

You've never heard such shouting and stomping going on-- Here our first significant proof that we were free.

你从来没有听过这样的叫喊和跺脚声——这是我们自由的第一个重要证据。

We were in an American airplane, we're airborne now.

我们曾经乘坐一架美国飞机，现在我们正在空中。

The thing was that uh, that we were going from the Dark Ages uh, the depths of the Dark Ages to uh, sweetness and light in about an hour and forty-five minutes.

问题是，呃，我们将在大约一个小时四十五分钟内从黑暗时代呃，黑暗时代的深处走向呃，甜蜜和光明。

It wasn't until we got on the airplane and we finally broke ground, everyone's cheering.

直到我们上了飞机，终于破土动工，大家都在欢呼。

And I looked over at Bob Shumaker, I'm sitting next to him, and I says well I guess this is for real.

我看着鲍勃·舒梅克，我坐在他旁边，我说好吧，我想这是真的。

And that's it.

就是这样。

But those shields, those emotional shields that develop over a period of time because you know, - the agony uh, uh, of your family and you couldn't talk to 'em, you couldn't touch 'em you know, you know, you couldn't anything, you develop this, this protectiveness I guess.

但是这些盾牌，这些情感盾牌会在一段时间内形成，因为你知道，-你的家人的痛苦，你无法与他们交谈，你无法触摸他们，你知道，你知道，你什么也不能做，你发展了这个，我想这种保护性。

A way to cope with what it was.

一种应对现状的方法。

And it took a long time to break that shield out, to melt, so that you became a warm person again.

花了很长时间才打破那个屏蔽，融化，让你再次成为一个温暖的人。

It was hard to show emotion to - to the point where you shed tears.

很难表达情感——以至于你流泪了。

The first time I really cried was when my kids were born, you know, and it took a long time.

我第一次真正哭泣是在我的孩子出生的时候，你知道，这花了很长时间。

We were told that something remarkable was about to happen because for all the good divisiveness of our country, the one thing that everybody could agree upon was that the P.O.W.'s ought to come home.

我们被告知，一些非凡的事情即将发生，因为尽管我们国家存在良好的分歧，但每个人都同意的一件事是战俘应该回家。

I had no idea there was going to be anything like the media attention that was given to this event or the build up in uh, in anticipation on the part of the American public and all.

我不知道会有媒体对这一事件的关注，或者呃，在美国公众和所有人的预期中。

So when I met Admiral Gyder and he went up took me the microphone, said do you- do you want to say anything, I said well I- yeah I got a couple cents.

所以当我遇到吉德上将时，他走上前拿起麦克风，对我说，你想说什么吗？我说，好吧，我——是的，我得到了几美分。

And I said the sentences and then the God Bless America just--

我说了这些句子，然后上帝保佑美国——

We are honored to have had the opportunity to serve our country under difficult circumstances.

我们很荣幸有机会在困难的情况下为国家服务。

We are profoundly grateful to our Commander In Chief and to Our Nation for this day.

今天，我们对我们的总司令和我们的国家深表感谢。

God Bless America.

上帝保佑美国。

We got off the bus uh, they said does anybody have any medical problems that need to be taken care of right now?

我们下了车呃,他们说现在有人有什么健康问题需要照顾吗?

And I said, well it's not real bad, but I've had a tooth ache for about five years.

我说，好吧，这并不是很糟糕，但我牙痛已经有五年了。

I was in the dental clinic in five minutes and it was taken care of in another five minutes.

五分钟后我就到了牙科诊所，五分钟后就得到了处理。

It was- it was fantastic the way they took care of as there.

他们在那里的照顾方式真是太棒了。

We had a clean, soft bed with white sheets on it.

我们有一张干净、柔软的床，上面铺着白色的床单。

It was hard to sleep on, we'd been sleeping on concrete so long, it was too soft.

很难睡，我们在水泥地上睡了太久了，太软了。

We got a hot shower, with real soap.

我们洗了个热水澡，用的是真正的肥皂。

And they had a stainless steel pitcher in every room with water in it with ice cubes.

他们在每个房间里都有一个不锈钢水罐，里面装着水和冰块。

Now you're looking at me like, this man is crazy.

现在你看着我的眼神就像是，这个男人疯了。

Let me tell you, that was like breaking the sound barrier, we were home.

让我告诉你，这就像打破了音障，我们到家了。

There was food and there was dessert and there was clean sheets and there was soft music and there was pretty nurses and there was - oohf - it was uh, (laughs) it was really overpowering.

有食物，有甜点，有干净的床单，有轻柔的音乐，有漂亮的护士，还有 - 哦 - 呃，（笑）这真的是压倒性的。

I walked into that chow hall at the hospital and uh, the cook standing behind the counter there said uh, what'll it be?

我走进医院的食堂，呃，站在柜台后面的厨师说，呃，会是什么？

And I said I want a steak and a dozen fried eggs.

我说我想要一份牛排和一打煎鸡蛋。

And he fixed it right up for me.

他直接帮我修好了。

I went and ate that, went back and got seven eggs.

我去吃了那个，回去拿了七个鸡蛋。

I had nineteen fried eggs my first meal at Clark.

我在克拉克的第一顿饭吃了十九个煎鸡蛋。

It wasn't that I wanted to eat, I wanted to read, I read and fall asleep and read, fall asleep.

并不是我想吃饭，我想读书，我读着就睡着了，读着就睡着了。

I wanted to know all the things that happened while I was away.

我想知道我不在的时候发生的所有事情。

And the next morning they brought articles in uh, Uniform would begin to fit them on.

第二天早上，他们带来了物品，呃，制服开始让他们穿上。

I had everything on except my blue uniform jacket and someone held it up I put it on and I started to button the buttons and I looked down, I couldn't help it, I had to cry.

我什么都穿了，除了我的蓝色制服夹克，有人举起它，我穿上它，开始扣纽扣，我低下头，我无法控制，我不得不哭。

And I'm not the only one.

而且我不是唯一一个。

That was our release.

那是我们的释放。

There was an elderly blond lady, very heavy, and she looked at me and uh, and she said I sink (as said) I know how you feel.

有一位金发碧眼的老太太，很重，她看着我，呃，她说我沉下去了（正如所说的）我知道你的感受。

I spent two years in Auschwitz.

我在奥斯维辛集中营呆了两年。

And I said you know what?

我说你知道吗？

You oughta be standing over here and I oughta be in on that side of the fence.

你应该站在这边，我应该站在栅栏的那边。

They did a three-sixty around the Golden Gate Bridge and they ensured that all of us were satisfied that we'd had a good glimpse of the USA, The Golden Gate Bridge, tremendous moment.

他们绕金门大桥绕了三圈六十，他们确保我们所有人都满意，因为我们很好地瞥见了美国、金门大桥，这是一个伟大的时刻。

What went through my mind was that this is my husband and I haven't seen him for six years.

我的脑海中闪过的念头是，这是我的丈夫，我已经六年没见到他了。

So, that was a little bit scary for awhile until we actually spoke.

所以，在我们真正交谈之前，有一段时间有点害怕。

And I remember thinking, I'm not gonna be able to walk down these steps 'cause I'm tellin' ya, I'm walkin' about two inches or three inches off the floor.

我记得当时我在想，我无法走下这些台阶，因为我告诉你，我正在离地大约两英寸或三英寸的地方行走。

I remember Mary rushing at me and she grabbed a hold of me and I picked her up and took her off the ground and held her forever, you know, just held her forever.

我记得玛丽冲向我，她抓住了我，我把她抱起来，把她从地上抱起来，永远地抱着她，你知道，永远地抱着她。

Kissed her good.

好好地吻了她。

And then my children, uh, came up to me and I met youngest daughter for the first time.

然后我的孩子们，呃，来到我身边，我第一次见到了最小的女儿。

For six and a half years you- you dream and plan and try to survive for that some day when you get home, and then all of a sudden you step off the plane and some day's here, and uh, and it- it- there is nothing to describe the- the emotional highs that surrounded that -that-- event.

六年半的时间里，你梦想着，计划着，努力活下去，争取有一天当你回到家时，然后突然你走下飞机，有一天就到了，呃，它-它-没有什么可以形容的-围绕着那件事的情感高潮。

I mean, you know, gettin' through sayin' that and runnin' over to the car where my mom was and seein' her for the first time, in, in uh, six and a half years.

我的意思是，你知道，说完这句话，跑到我妈妈所在的车旁，第一次见到她，六年半以来。

I'd asked uh, Lorraine to be in a mini skirt, 'cause in the first years of my imprisonment, I guess, until that was the dress code of young uh, women in the United States.

我要求呃洛林穿迷你裙，因为我猜是在我入狱的头几年，直到那是美国年轻呃女性的着装规范。

And here eight years later I'd missed all that.

八年后，我在这里错过了这一切。

That morning I was very nervous and mini skirts were gone but I dressed up in a mini skirt.

那天早上我非常紧张，迷你裙不见了，但我还是穿上了迷你裙。

Then all of a sudden, I was concerned about how Grant would react that morning and I was putting my make-up on and he was looking up at me and he was um, just a bright little kid, but uh, very shy and then I was concerned he wouldn't hug his father and that would hurt Bob, so I looked at him and I said what are you gonna do when you see Daddy?

然后突然间，我担心那天早上格兰特会有何反应，我正在化妆，他抬头看着我，他是，嗯，只是一个聪明的小孩子，但是呃，非常害羞，然后我担心他不会拥抱他的父亲，这会伤害鲍勃，所以我看着他，我说当你看到爸爸时你会做什么？

'Cause I knew if I told him, kiss his father, that wouldn't work.

因为我知道如果我告诉他，亲吻他的父亲，那是行不通的。

He shrugged his shoulders and, kinda looked at me and, uh, well I said you know what I'm gonna do.

他耸耸肩，看着我，嗯，我说你知道我要做什么。

I'm gonna run up and give him a big kiss, you know.

我要跑过去给他一个大大的吻，你知道的。

And he kinda looked at me still with his big eyes and didn't comment and, then I looked back down and I said, and I'll beat you to him.

他仍然用他的大眼睛看着我，没有发表任何评论，然后我低下头，我说，我会比你先一步。

Bob came out of the plane.

鲍勃从飞机上走出来。

I said, there's your daddy, and in front of thousands of people, Grant left my hand and ran up to his dad, you know, and I think Bob had a little speech to give and I don't think he was able to give it either.

我说，那是你的爸爸，在成千上万的人面前，格兰特离开了我的手，跑向他的爸爸，你知道，我认为鲍勃有一点演讲要发表，但我认为他也无法发表。

We have so much more strength than we even dreamed of physically, mentally, to put up with all kinds of things.

我们在身体上、精神上都拥有比我们想象的更多的力量来忍受各种事情。

I think few people are rarely called on to use everything you have.

我认为很少有人会被要求使用你拥有的一切。

And once you've gone through something like that, uh,.

一旦你经历过类似的事情，呃，。

Listen, we go through these day to day ordeals and stresses, and uh, crises.

听着，我们每天都会经历磨难和压力，还有危机。

They're not crises.

它们不是危机。

They're nothing.

他们什么都不是。

I mean as long as you have your health and you have your uh, brain power, your mental power and you have um, your ability, physical ability, uh, you don't need anything else.

我的意思是只要你有你的健康，你有你的呃，脑力，你的精神力量，你有呃，你的能力，身体能力，呃，你不需要任何其他的。

I think that's the biggest lesson.

我认为这是最大的教训。

Wow am I lucky.

哇我很幸运。

How many guys will never have this opportunity?

有多少人永远不会有这个机会？

How many guys did we leave behind?

我们留下了多少人？

Never got a chance to be a prisoner of war.

从来没有机会成为战俘。

What a great job.

多么棒的工作啊。

Beats the heck out of bein' killed in action.

避免在行动中被杀。

And I think that's one thing that all of us came away with.

我认为这是我们所有人都得到的一件事。

Not that we're heroes.

并不是说我们是英雄。

We're nothing special.

我们没什么特别的。

We were just the unlucky guys who happened to have the opportunity to serve in a very different circumstance, but we had that opportunity, and others didn't.

我们只是那些不幸的人，碰巧有机会在一个非常不同的环境中服务，但我们有这个机会，而其他人没有。

Both in the South end of the country and in the North up in the air.

无论是在该国的南端还是在空中的北部。

To them, that's what this is all about.

对他们来说，这就是一切的意义所在。

The people who never had a chance to come home.

那些从来没有机会回家的人。

I found that the idea of Vietnam uh, would not leave me.

我发现越南的想法，呃，不会离开我。

It was part of me, and so instead of trying to throw it away I- I ultimately embraced it and said well, okay, this maybe I can play a role.

它是我的一部分，所以我没有试图扔掉它，而是最终拥抱了它，并说，好吧，也许我可以发挥作用。

I remember the first morning he was home he went out and got the newspaper and he came in, sat down at the breakfast table and started to read the newspaper and I thought hah!

我记得他回家的第一天早上，他出去拿了报纸，然后他进来，坐在早餐桌前，开始读报纸，我想哈！

I've had that newspaper for seven and a half years, what is this all about?

我已经收到那份报纸七年半了，这到底是怎么回事？

(laughs)

（笑）

Number One, I'm not as tough as I thought I was, Number Two, I'm a lot more resilient than I thought I was, and um, Number Three is, there's no such thing as a bad day when you have a doorknob on the inside of the door.

第一，我并不像我想象的那么坚强，第二，我比我想象的更有弹性，第三，当门内侧有一个门把手时，就没有糟糕的一天。