哈比卜·努尔马戈梅多夫：达吉斯坦、MMA、UFC、伊斯兰教、康纳、菲多与足球

The following is a conversation with Khabib Nurmagomedov, one of the greatest fighters of all time, who retired from the UFC undefeated with a perfect twenty-nine and O record.

以下是与哈比布·努尔马戈梅多夫 (Khabib Nurmagomedov) 的对话，他是有史以来最伟大的拳击手之一，以 29 场和 O 场的完美记录从 UFC 退役。

00:00 It was a huge honor for me to meet him, to train together, and to have this deep conversation.

我非常荣幸能够见到他、一起训练并进行这次深入的交谈。

We had this conversation entirely in Russian.

我们完全用俄语进行了这次谈话。

This was my first time doing so on this podcast.

这是我第一次在这个播客上这样做。

And even these words I’m saying right now are spoken in Russian.

甚至我现在说的这些话也是用俄语说的。

So if you’re hearing me in English, you’re actually listening to the English dub.

所以如果你听到我说英语，你实际上是在听英语配音。

On YouTube, you can switch between language audio tracks by clicking the settings gear icon, then clicking audio track, and then selecting the language you prefer.

在 YouTube 上，您可以通过单击设置齿轮图标，然后单击音轨，然后选择您喜欢的语言来切换语言音轨。

For the original Russian version, select Russian.

对于原始俄语版本，请选择俄语。

And for the English dub, select English.

对于英语配音，选择英语。

00:58 Subtitles are also available in both languages.

字幕也有两种语言版本。

The translation and dubbing are a collaborative effort of translators, real human beings, including myself and AI.

翻译和配音是译者、真人（包括我自己和人工智能）的共同努力。

Thanks to the incredible team at ElevenLabs for their help.

感谢 ElevenLabs 令人难以置信的团队提供的帮助。

And now, please allow me to take this moment to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for your love and support all these years.

现在，请允许我借此机会衷心感谢你们多年来的厚爱和支持。

I love you all.

我爱你们。

This is the Lex Fridman Podcast.

这是莱克斯·弗里德曼播客。

And now, dear friends, here’s Khabib Nurmagomedov.

现在，亲爱的朋友们，这是哈比卜·努尔马戈梅多夫。

01:35 Let’s try in Russian if we can, like you suggested.

如果可以的话，让我们尝试用俄语，就像你建议的那样。

I can help you out if you need.

如果你需要的话我可以帮你。

Yeah, thanks, brother.

是的，谢谢兄弟。

01:40 I kind of feel it in my heart and soul, but sometimes I can’t find the right words.

我心里和灵魂里都有这种感觉，但有时我找不到合适的词语。

I know, brother.

我知道，兄弟。

01:47 We got this.

我们得到了这个。

Great.

伟大的。

01:49 Let’s start from the beginning.

让我们从头开始。

So that gym back in Dagestan where you trained is legendary for its spartan conditions.

因此，您在达吉斯坦训练的那家健身房因其简朴的条件而享有盛誉。

There was just one shower for seventy people, only cold water.

七十人只有一间淋浴，只有冷水。

And yet, this humble little gym managed to raise more than twenty world champions, including several UFC champions.

然而，这个简陋的小体育馆却培养了二十多名世界冠军，其中包括几位 UFC 冠军。

Can you try to explain or maybe reflect on what factors in that gym, those training sessions, that life in Dagestan created so many champions?

你能否尝试解释一下或者反思一下健身房里的哪些因素、那些训练课程以及达吉斯坦的生活创造了如此多的冠军？

Sure.

当然。

02:24 So we’re talking about the gym, the one located in Makhachkala.

我们谈论的是位于马哈奇卡拉的健身房。

And Makhachkala, for the people who don’t know, it’s the capital of Dagestan.

对于那些不知道的人来说，马哈奇卡拉是达吉斯坦的首都。

This was back around the years from two thousand to two thousand and ten, and even later on.

这要追溯到两千到两千零一十年间，甚至更晚的时候。

In twenty nineteen, we opened up a big gym, a major facility that is still functioning to this day.

二十九岁，我们开设了一个大型体育馆，这是一个至今仍在运作的主要设施。

But before twenty nineteen, we all actually trained in that gym where there was practically nothing.

但在二十九岁之前，我们实际上都是在那个几乎什么都没有的健身房里训练的。

It was just a school gym with nothing but mats, a single punching bag, one climbing rope, and a kind of indoor basketball court.

那只是一个学校体育馆，除了垫子、一个沙袋、一根攀岩绳和一个室内篮球场之外什么都没有。

And if we go even further back, before two thousand, before we moved to Makhachkala, we lived in a village.

如果我们追溯到更远的地方，在两千多年前，在我们搬到马哈奇卡拉之前，我们住在一个村庄里。

In the village, we had a gym right inside our house.

在村子里，我们的房子里就有一个健身房。

03:14 My father, he built a gym at home, and he was training all the local village kids right there.

我父亲在家里建了一个健身房，他在那里训练所有当地乡村的孩子。

And there were times back when I was a child, let’s say when I was maybe six or seven years old, I would occasionally wake up to the sound of people training, doing their drills right there in the gym.

当我还是个孩子的时候，比如说我六七岁的时候，我偶尔会被人们训练的声音吵醒，在健身房里进行训练。

You know, like with judo or freestyle when they’re drilling, one guy throwing another.

你知道，就像柔道或自由泳训练时，一个人扔另一个人。

Those are my first conscious memories.

这些是我最初的有意识的记忆。

I was maybe five, six, seven years old at that time.

那时我大概五岁、六岁、七岁。

So my father set up this gym in the village and trained local kids, including me, my older brother, and all our close and distant relatives, anyone who wanted to come.

所以我父亲在村里设立了这个健身房，训练当地的孩子，包括我、我的哥哥，以及我们所有的近亲和远亲，任何想来的人。

A lot of kids came to him.

很多孩子都来找他。

So you would wake up and there are these sounds.

所以你醒来时会听到这些声音。

Yeah.

是的。

04:00 You hear the hitting, the throwing over and over.

你会一遍又一遍地听到击打、投掷的声音。

And my father’s voice, how he’s shouting, giving instructions, pushing someone, coaching, teaching.

还有我父亲的声音，他是如何大喊大叫、发出指示、督促某人、指导、教导的。

I lived with those sounds.

我和这些声音一起生活。

But that was in the village.

但那是在村子里。

And later when we moved to Makhachkala, well, you couldn’t say the gym there was wow either.

后来当我们搬到马哈奇卡拉时，你也不能说那里的健身房很棒。

There were only mats.

只有垫子。

And of course, the most valuable thing an athlete can have, a coach, my father.

当然，对于一名运动员来说，最有价值的东西就是教练，就是我的父亲。

So he trained us there.

所以他在那里训练我们。

And to be honest, until I, let’s say, until I became a champion and had big success, we never had a good big gym where we could, you know, all take a shower together at the same time after training.

说实话，直到我，比如说，直到我成为冠军并取得巨大成功之前，我们从来没有一个好的大型健身房，让我们可以在训练后同时一起洗澡。

We always had just one shower for everyone, no proper amenities.

我们总是每个人只有一间淋浴间，没有适当的设施。

So your life story began in the mountains of Dagestan in Sildi, then Kirovaul, and then Makhachkala.

所以你的人生故事始于达吉斯坦的希尔迪山区，然后是基洛瓦尔，然后是马哈奇卡拉。

04:53 And in all these situations, there are very interesting stories.

在所有这些情况下，都有非常有趣的故事。

But one of the things I heard you say is that the best results are born out of the worst conditions.

但我听到你说的一件事是，最好的结果是在最坏的条件下诞生的。

What can you say about that?

对此你能说什么？

Philosophically, is it correct to say that comfort is kind of the enemy for champions?

从哲学上来说，舒适度是冠军的敌人是否正确？

It depends on the sport.

这取决于运动。

05:19 For example, let’s say in football, you have to have conditions.

比如说，在足球比赛中，你必须有条件。

You can’t really play if there is practically no field.

如果几乎没有场地，你就无法真正玩耍。

Of course, you can play in the dirt, and it happens sometimes.

当然，你可以在泥土中玩耍，这种情况有时会发生。

You can start there.

你可以从那里开始。

But when you are ten or twelve years old, you already have to be at a certain level.

但当你十岁或十二岁的时候，你已经达到了一定的水平。

You must have conditions.

你必须有条件。

But if we look at our sport, then what is the most important thing?

但如果我们审视我们的运动，那么最重要的是什么？

The coach.

教练。

You also need sparring partners who will push you in the gym, as they say, right?

你还需要陪练伙伴，正如他们所说，他们会在健身房里推动你，对吗？

And you need the mats.

你需要垫子。

Our sport is not expensive.

我们的运动并不昂贵。

You just buy your wrestling shoes, singlets, shorts, a T-shirt.

你只需购买摔跤鞋、背心、短裤、T 恤即可。

And if there’s a mat, you wrestle, you become a champion, you fight.

如果有垫子，你就可以摔跤，你就成为冠军，你就可以战斗。

But when you live too well, let’s say, you know, you’re never in need…

但当你生活得太好时，比如说，你知道，你永远不会需要……

06:09 For example, you were born into a wealthy family and you already have everything.

比如说，你出生在一个富裕的家庭，你已经拥有了一切。

Would that same wealthy father, would he force you to do such a brutal sport?

那个有钱的父亲，会强迫你做这种残酷的运动吗？

A sport where you come home every day with injuries, where you come home with an exhausted body, you come home with bruises.

这是一项你每天都带着伤回家的运动，你带着疲惫的身体回家，你带着瘀伤回家。

Would he really do that?

他真的会那么做吗？

That’s the question.

这就是问题所在。

And the kid himself, who lives a life of luxury, would he even want to do this?

而那个过着奢侈生活的孩子自己，他愿意这么做吗？

When we look at it statistically, the answer is no.

当我们从统计角度来看时，答案是否定的。

This is where you need that hunger.

这就是你需要饥饿的地方。

You have to be in a position where you are truly in need.

你必须处于真正需要你的位置。

And it’s interesting that there’s a psychological side to this as well, that you need a tough situation to create champions.

有趣的是，这也有心理方面的影响，你需要一个艰难的环境来创造冠军。

06:47 But what’s really interesting is how Dagestan has produced so many wrestling champions.

但真正有趣的是达吉斯坦如何培养出如此多的摔跤冠军。

You mentioned football.

你提到了足球。

Let’s look at other countries.

我们再看看其他国家。

Why has Brazil produced so many great football players?

巴西为何培养出如此多伟大的足球运动员？

Why does Argentina have so many football players?

阿根廷为何拥有如此多的足球运动员？

Of course, you have Germany, France, and all that.

当然，还有德国、法国等等。

European, yeah.

欧洲的，是的。

The whole European side.

整个欧洲一侧。

07:12 But those are completely different cultures.

但这些是完全不同的文化。

Yes.

是的。

07:16 Well, in Brazil, their strength is in their numbers.

嗯，在巴西，他们的优势在于人数。

How many people do they have?

他们有多少人？

The population is huge, more than two hundred million.

人口众多，有两亿多。

And people really love it there.

人们真的很喜欢那里。

It’s a huge tradition.

这是一个巨大的传统。

Because, you know, without a real love for this sport, you can never achieve any success.

因为，你知道，如果没有对这项运动的真正热爱，你永远无法取得任何成功。

You truly have to love what you are doing.

你必须真正热爱你正在做的事情。

So they have the tradition and they have the love for it, and that is why they play for all the top clubs.

所以他们有传统并且热爱它，这就是为什么他们为所有顶级俱乐部效力。

Well, I think they just win by numbers.

嗯，我认为他们只是靠数量取胜。

Yeah, that’s a powerful aspect of their culture.

是的，这是他们文化的一个强大的方面。

07:43 How much people, how much the whole nation loves to play football.

有多少人，就有多少全国人民热爱足球。

And if you add to that a system that creates strong teams, that’s how you can produce so many football legends.

如果你添加一个创建强大球队的系统，那就可以培养出如此多的足球传奇人物。

Yes.

是的。

07:56 Take Dagestan, for example.

以达吉斯坦为例。

We love football.

我们热爱足球。

I just know how much people in Dagestan love football.

我只知道达吉斯坦有多少人热爱足球。

Yes, we have wrestlers, fighters.

是的，我们有摔跤手、战士。

There are many of us.

我们有很多人。

But for football players, there is no ecosystem like that.

但对于足球运动员来说，不存在这样的生态系统。

Not so well organized where a kid can, for example, play at school, then go to some academy, then get noticed there, and then get picked up by a club.

组织得不太好，例如，孩子可以在学校玩耍，然后去某个学院，然后在那里受到关注，然后被俱乐部接纳。

We don’t have that system.

我们没有那个系统。

It’s just kids running on the streets, playing on the streets, following football.

只是孩子们在街上奔跑、玩耍、追随足球。

Let’s say playing on PlayStation.

假设在 PlayStation 上玩游戏。

There is no system.

没有系统。

There is no selection process where kids can go and show themselves, so they can be noticed and get signed.

没有让孩子们可以去展示自己的选择过程，这样他们就可以被注意到并获得签名。

I think Brazil and other countries, and of course Europe, they have it.

我认为巴西和其他国家，当然还有欧洲，他们都有。

So yeah, we have big problems with football.

所以，是的，我们在足球方面存在很大的问题。

08:42 However, in our sports where you can wrestle, where you can fight, in that sense, we have a system.

然而，在我们的体育运动中，你可以摔跤，你可以战斗，从这个意义上说，我们有一个系统。

For example, the gyms, you know, in Makhachkala, let’s say for combat sports.

例如，你知道，在马哈奇卡拉的体育馆，比如说格斗运动。

I’m not even counting like freestyle wrestling or other styles.

我什至没有算自由式摔跤或其他风格的摔跤。

There may be forty or fifty gyms for combat sports, and all are full.

可能有四十或五十个格斗运动馆，而且都已经满了。

If you win in Dagestan, you move on to the North Caucasus level, then to the Russian nationals.

如果你在达吉斯坦获胜，你将进入北高加索级别，然后是俄罗斯国民。

If you’re champion of Russia, you go to the Worlds.

如果你是俄罗斯冠军，你就可以参加世界赛。

In amateurs, they notice you and you make a name for yourself.

在业余爱好者中，他们会注意到你，然后你就为自己赢得了名声。

There is a certain ladder here.

这里有一定的梯子。

But in many other sports here in Dagestan, we don’t have such a well-structured ladder for people to climb.

但在达吉斯坦的许多其他运动中，我们没有这样一个结构良好的梯子供人们攀爬。

Can we look at this philosophically again?

我们可以再次从哲学角度来看待这个问题吗？

09:23 I mean, you’ve seen so many wrestlers, fighters.

我的意思是，你见过很多摔跤手、战士。

Why exactly were these gyms creating so many champions?

到底为什么这些健身房能培养出如此多的冠军呢？

I’m just honestly curious because it’s rare in any sport, one gym or a small number of gyms creating so many champions.

老实说我很好奇，因为在任何一项运动中，一个健身房或少数健身房创造出如此多的冠军都是很少见的。

Well, first important factor is the competition level is incredibly high.

嗯，第一个重要因素是竞争水平非常高。

09:40 You come to the gym, and in every spot you have good wrestlers, ten or fifteen guys right there, and the coaches are great.

你来到健身房，每个地方都有优秀的摔跤手，十到十五个人，教练也很棒。

You know, it so happened that my father broke through in the media, and then I became a champion, and the other guys became champions too.

你知道，正好我父亲在媒体上突破了，然后我成为了冠军，其他人也成为了冠军。

And my father’s philosophy, it really resonated, and he became known for it.

我父亲的哲学确实引起了共鸣，他因此而闻名。

10:13 But there are coaches in Dagestan that not many people know about.

但达吉斯坦有一些教练却没有多少人知道。

They are known locally, but they are very good, and actually they have the knowledge, they have the approach, they have the philosophy.

他们在当地很有名，但他们非常优秀，实际上他们有知识、有方法、有哲学。

They could also be at the same level as my father was.

他们也可能和我父亲处于同一水平。

I believe there are really quite a few of them.

我相信这样的人确实有不少。

In terms of the coaching, I think Dagestan was extremely lucky.

就教练而言，我认为达吉斯坦非常幸运。

It probably goes back to the nineteen fifties when wrestling really took off here, starting with Ali Aliyev, our legendary wrestler, a five-time world champion who went to the Olympics three times.

这可能要追溯到十九世纪五十年代，当时摔跤在这里真正起飞，始于阿里·阿利耶夫，我们的传奇摔跤手，五届世界冠军，三次参加奥运会。

That’s where it started, with his generation.

这就是他这一代人的开始。

There was Zagalav Abdulbekov, Ali Aliyev.

其中有扎加拉夫·阿卜杜科夫、阿里·阿利耶夫。

Those are the well-known names.

这些都是众所周知的名字。

10:57 I mean, those guys are famous, but there were so many other less known wrestlers who later on, after they retired, they all became great coaches themselves.

我的意思是，这些人都很有名，但还有很多其他不太出名的摔跤手，后来在退役后，他们自己都成为了伟大的教练。

And these coaches, they raised a very large number of guys who are really good at wrestling.

而这些教练，他们培养了很多非常擅长摔跤的家伙。

And then some of those coaches, they kind of switched over to fighting, let’s say to grappling, to MMA, and they started coaching in combat Sambo as well.

然后其中一些教练，他们转向格斗，比如说格斗，转向综合格斗，他们也开始指导格斗桑博。

And it just kept going like that, you know.

你知道，事情就这样继续下去。

It was moving forward step by step.

就这样一步一步的向前迈进了。

And so we have a huge number of really great coaches.

所以我们拥有大量非常优秀的教练。

I believe this is one of the single most important keys to the success of Dagestani wrestlers and fighters, the coaching staff of Dagestan.

我相信这是达吉斯坦摔跤运动员和达吉斯坦教练组成功的最重要的关键之一。

Is it more about technique or is it really just about serious, incredibly hard work?

更重要的是技术还是真的只是认真、难以置信的努力？

Well, you have to look at the traditions, because generally it’s just the way it is in Dagestan.

嗯，你必须看看传统，因为通常达吉斯坦就是这样。

11:48 Everyone wrestles.

每个人都在摔跤。

Everyone fights.

每个人都在战斗。

It’s part of our culture.

这是我们文化的一部分。

You know yourself, fighting is like fifty percent wrestling.

你了解你自己，战斗就像百分之五十的摔跤。

Every parent wants their children to wrestle, to be physically strong.

每个父母都希望自己的孩子能够摔跤，身体强壮。

Our approach to kids is that a child must be strong.

我们对孩子的态度是孩子必须坚强。

They must be able to stand up for themselves, for their family.

他们必须能够为自己、为家人挺身而出。

It’s something that has traditionally always been in every single one of our clans, every family, every village.

这是我们每个部落、每个家庭、每个村庄传统上一直存在的东西。

It’s just in our blood.

它就在我们的血液里。

I mean, it’s worth pointing out, and you’ve actually written about this, that this isn’t just a recent thing.

我的意思是，值得指出的是，你实际上已经写过这件事，这不仅仅是最近发生的事情。

12:25 It’s been going on for hundreds of years.

这种情况已经持续了数百年。

Yes, that’s right.

是的，没错。

12:33 These lands, Dagestan specifically, have seen powerful armies sweep through time and time again.

这些土地，特别是达吉斯坦，见证了强大军队一次又一次的横扫。

Because of that, people here have always had to fight to survive.

正因为如此，这里的人们总是不得不为生存而奋斗。

Refusing to back down, refusing to give up their land or lose their identity.

拒绝让步，拒绝放弃土地或失去自己的身份。

Their homes, their villages, yeah, their families, and land.

他们的家园，他们的村庄，是的，他们的家人，还有土地。

12:51 If we look back a thousand years in history, maybe fifteen hundred years, there was the Khazar Khaganate, the Arabic Caliphate, then the Iranian Empire, or the Persian Empire, I should say.

如果我们回顾一千年，也许一千五百年的历史，我应该说，有可萨汗国、阿拉伯哈里发国，然后是伊朗帝国或波斯帝国。

Then the Russian Empire, Timur passed through there, the Mongols.

然后是俄罗斯帝国，帖木儿经过那里，蒙古人。

And if we look at the geographical location of Dagestan, for those who don’t know, the Caucasus range runs across the whole region like a wall, and then it slopes down right where the Caspian lowlands are.

如果我们看看达吉斯坦的地理位置，对于那些不知道的人来说，高加索山脉像一堵墙一样横贯整个地区，然后在里海低地所在的地方向下倾斜。

So you’ve got the sea on the right, the mountains on the left, and the Caspian lowlands right here.

所以你的右边是大海，左边是山脉，而里海低地就在这里。

And there was a city there that’s still standing today.

那里有一座城市至今仍然矗立着。

It’s one of the oldest cities in the world, not just in Russia.

它是世界上最古老的城市之一，不仅仅是俄罗斯。

It’s Derbent.

这是杰尔宾特。

13:47 It used to be called Babul Abwab.

它曾经被称为Babul Abwab。

It means the gate of gates.

意思是门中之门。

Very major trade routes went through there.

非常重要的贸易路线都经过那里。

Very large armies passed through, and it was bound to leave a mark on the people.

庞大的军队经过，必然会在人们身上留下印记。

We have so many languages, more than thirty different languages, and people just don’t understand each other.

我们有很多语言，超过三十种不同的语言，但人们就是无法互相理解。

Take Islam and me.

以伊斯兰教和我为例。

We have different languages, come from different backgrounds.

我们有不同的语言，来自不同的背景。

Islam is Lak, and I’m Avar.

伊斯兰教是 Lak，我是 Avar。

When we talk, it’s not like it’s a dialect.

当我们说话时，这不像是方言。

We don’t understand each other at all.

我们根本不理解对方。

But since Islam has been with us for nearly twenty-five years, he actually picked up some Avar over time.

但由于伊斯兰教已经存在了近二十五年，随着时间的推移，他实际上学到了一些阿瓦尔语。

But anyway, the deep history of the region, it all left its mark.

但无论如何，该地区深厚的历史，都留下了印记。

It created many different languages and traditions.

它创造了许多不同的语言和传统。

14:38 Basically, of course, Islam is our primary religion, but Dagestan has actually absorbed a lot of cultures and faiths.

当然，基本上伊斯兰教是我们的主要宗教，但达吉斯坦实际上吸收了很多文化和信仰。

Even our food culture, it is incredibly rich.

甚至我们的饮食文化，也是极其丰富的。

We have European and Asian and Caucasian, our own unique cuisine.

我们有欧洲、亚洲和高加索风味，我们自己独特的美食。

So on the people, on the people themselves, the last fifteen hundred years of history have left a huge mark.

所以对于人民，对于人民本身，过去一千五百年的历史留下了巨大的印记。

If you’re into history and you start reading about Dagestan, I think you’ll get completely immersed and be amazed by what a unique place it is.

如果您热衷于历史并开始阅读有关达吉斯坦的文章，我想您会完全沉浸其中，并惊叹于它是一个多么独特的地方。

So all of this left a huge mark.

所以这一切都留下了巨大的印记。

Look at the terrain.

看地形。

It’s a coastal plain, and then the mountains rise up.

这是一片沿海平原，然后山脉拔地而起。

For instance, take someone like Timur.

以帖木儿这样的人为例。

When he passed through with a huge army, he stayed in the Dagestan lowlands but never went up into the mountains.

当他率领大军经过时，他留在了达吉斯坦低地，从未上山。

Why?

为什么？

15:30 Because you’ve got hundreds of thousands of troops, soldiers traveling with horses and supplies.

因为你有数十万军队，士兵带着马匹和补给。

If they had started going up into the mountains where it’s cold and there are no roads, it would have been too tough for them.

如果他们开始上山，那里又冷又没有路，那对他们来说就太艰难了。

So the highlanders somehow managed to stay independent.

因此，高地人以某种方式设法保持独立。

But the lowlands, the Caspian lowlands of Dagestan, they kept changing hands.

但低地，达吉斯坦的里海低地，他们不断易手。

Massive empires would roll in, and all of that left a mark on the people.

巨大的帝国将会滚滚而来，所有这一切都在人们身上留下了印记。

Gate of the gates, Babul Abwab.

城门之门，Babul Abwab。

Historians wrote about it, say, a thousand or fifteen hundred years ago, great historians from various countries.

历史学家们，比如说，一千五百年前，来自不同国家的伟大历史学家就写过关于它的文章。

People have written so much about Dagestan.

人们写了很多关于达吉斯坦的文章。

It went by different names back then, but they wrote a ton about this exact region.

当时它有不同的名字，但他们写了大量关于这个地区的文章。

Many people, many empires invaded our land.

许多人、许多帝国入侵了我们的土地。

So do you feel that inside you, in your blood, your heart, like all of this history?

那么你是否感觉到你内心、你的血液、你的内心，就像所有这些历史一样？

Well, in the past, it’s not like I really felt it.

嗯，在过去，我并没有真正感受到这一点。

16:30 I knew Dagestan’s history, but maybe with time, you start to see it in a whole new light.

我了解达吉斯坦的历史，但也许随着时间的推移，你会开始以全新的眼光看待它。

Every year, you change a bit on a mental and psychological level.

每年，你在精神和心理层面都会发生一些变化。

Now I understand.

现在我明白了。

I really do.

我真的这么做。

You cannot just be born physically and mentally strong.

你不可能生来就身体和精神都坚强。

Your environment shapes you no matter what, where you grew up, how you grew up, the conditions, and who you had around you.

无论如何，你的环境塑造了你，你在哪里长大，你是如何长大的，条件以及你周围的人。

And after all, genetics are also a part of who you are.

毕竟，遗传也是你的一部分。

So when you add all this up, yeah, I just feel like all of this has come together inside me.

所以当你把所有这些加起来时，是的，我只是觉得所有这些都在我内心融合在一起。

It’s interesting because in sports, we know many of the names of the great fighters and wrestlers.

这很有趣，因为在体育运动中，我们知道许多伟大的战士和摔跤手的名字。

17:14 Yet when it comes to war, there are so many people who fought, heroes, truly great warriors.

然而，说到战争，有那么多人参加过战斗，英雄，真正伟大的战士。

Some we know by name, but most of them we’ll never actually know and—

有些我们知道名字，但大多数我们永远不会真正知道，而且——

We’ll never know.

我们永远不会知道。

You write about Imam Shamil, that he’s an important figure for this region and a hero as well.

你写到了伊玛目沙米尔，他是这个地区的重要人物，也是英雄。

Well, Imam Shamil, he was known for resisting an empire as huge as Russia.

嗯，伊玛目沙米尔，他以抵抗俄罗斯这样庞大的帝国而闻名。

17:44 Dagestan is so small, and he had so few people with him.

达吉斯坦那么小，他身边的人又那么少。

How did he get famous?

他是如何出名的？

He got famous because he held out for a very long time.

他之所以出名，是因为他坚持了很长时间。

He didn’t just resist for a couple of years.

他不只是抵抗了几年。

He was like a regular fighter, let’s say, a soldier for ten years, and then when he became the leader, he went on for another twenty-five years.

他就像一个普通的战士，比如说，当了十年的士兵，然后当他成为领导者时，他又继续了二十五年。

So, 35 years of his conscious life he spent fighting not just some random empire, but what was then, if not the most powerful, definitely one of the strongest empires of that era.

因此，在他有意识的35年生命中，他所对抗的不仅仅是某个随机的帝国，而且是当时的帝国，即使不是最强大的，也绝对是那个时代最强大的帝国之一。

And that is what made him famous.

这就是他出名的原因。

And so there are villages in Dagestan that deeply honor the memory of particular warriors who came from their villages, from their clan, from their ethnic group.

因此，达吉斯坦的一些村庄深深地纪念着来自他们的村庄、他们的氏族、他们的民族的特定战士。

18:43 But in, well, world history, they’re barely known.

但在世界历史上，他们却鲜为人知。

Like, take Shamil.

比如，以沙米尔为例。

He’s a leader, right?

他是一个领导者，对吧？

So everybody knows him.

所以大家都认识他。

But there are plenty of heroes who’ve been forgotten.

但也有很多英雄被遗忘了。

But yeah, their own people remember.

但是，是的，他们自己的人记得。

Villages hold on to history.

村庄保留着历史。

18:58 Plus, we have to admit that conditions in the mountains are incredibly harsh.

另外，我们必须承认山区的条件极其恶劣。

That’s part of it too.

这也是其中的一部分。

Just surviving up there is a real struggle.

仅仅在那里生存就是一场真正的斗争。

See, back then, people in the mountains worked all through the summer just to survive the winter, because winters are harsh, with heavy snow, completely cutting off villages.

你看，当年山里的人们整个夏天都在辛苦劳作，只是为了过冬，因为冬天很严酷，大雪纷飞，把村庄完全隔绝了。

19:10 People just stay inside and try to outlast it.

人们只是呆在里面并试图熬过它。

And in the summer, they work.

在夏天，他们工作。

Terrace farming was a huge thing for us.

梯田种植对我们来说是一件大事。

Our terraces are among the most, you could say, famous and ancient in the world.

我们的梯田可以说是世界上最著名、最古老的梯田之一。

They’re known as the Chokh terraces.

它们被称为 Chokh 梯田。

Now, those are the famous ones.

现在，这些都是著名的。

But every village had terraces.

但每个村庄都有梯田。

There’s a place out there called Marghit, right across from our village.

有一个地方叫玛吉特，就在我们村庄对面。

People worked over there, but here, in the village, is where they lived.

人们在那里工作，但这里，在村庄里，是他们居住的地方。

I mean, you’d think, why didn’t they just build a village right there, in the place where we grow all our food?

我的意思是，你可能会想，为什么他们不在我们种植所有食物的地方建一个村庄呢？

Because enemies could easily ride in on horseback.

因为敌人很容易骑马入侵。

19:59 An army could easily get to you there, so they’d build a village in rugged terrain—

军队很容易就能到达那里，所以他们会在崎岖的地形上建造一个村庄——

Yeah.

是的。

…somewhere tough to invade.

……难以入侵的地方。

20:04 For instance, our village is Sildi.

例如，我们的村庄是西尔迪。

It’s from the word si, which is like a castle or a fortress or a tower.

它来自“si”这个词，它就像一座城堡、一座堡垒或一座塔。

They built it that way so an army couldn’t reach them.

他们用这种方式建造了它，这样军队就无法到达他们。

You’d have to hike down one mountain and then climb up a whole different mountain.

你必须徒步走下一座山，然后爬上另一座完全不同的山。

And right there, they’d plant things like grain, potatoes, basically, you know, all their food.

就在那里，他们种植谷物、土豆等东西，基本上，你知道，他们所有的食物。

See, if we had built over there, if we lived there and grew our crops in the same place, since it’s all terraced land, an army could just walk right up, launch raids, and so on.

你看，如果我们在那儿建房，如果我们住在那儿，在同一个地方种庄稼，因为都是梯田，一支军队就可以直接走过去，发动袭击，等等。

Back in the day, that’s how people lived.

回到过去，人们就是这样生活的。

And so all of this took a toll on people, physically, psychologically, and mentally.

因此，所有这一切都对人们的身体、心理和精神造成了损害。

And honestly, well, you just can’t be born in these conditions, live here, stay here, and be mentally weak.

老实说，你不可能出生在这种情况下，住在这里，留在这里，并且精神上很脆弱。

20:58 You just have to be tough.

你必须坚强。

There’s no other way to survive.

没有其他办法可以生存。

So you just built a sports complex there.

所以你刚刚在那里建了一个体育场馆。

21:02 Pretty legendary, you know.

相当传奇，你知道。

Could you talk about that?

你能谈谈这个吗？

Yes, that was my father’s whole plan.

是的，这就是我父亲的整个计划。

21:08 He really wanted it way up in the mountains.

他真的很想在山上。

First, it’s great for the fighters.

首先，这对战士来说非常好。

Right now, I just flew out here to Las Vegas.

现在，我刚刚飞往拉斯维加斯。

We’re sitting here, like, doing this podcast together, but I came out here for Umar’s fight.

我们坐在这里，一起做这个播客，但我来这里是为了奥马尔的战斗。

And I should say, Umar did his main training there at the new base in Sildi.

我应该说，奥马尔在西尔迪的新基地进行了他的主要训练。

He spent almost a month at that place.

他在那个地方呆了将近一个月。

And because it’s 1500 to 1600 meters above sea level, man, it’s tough to train there.

而且因为海拔1500到1600米，伙计，在那里训练很困难。

And the thing is, when you spend about three to four weeks there, you just have more oxygen in your blood, you have more testosterone, you improve physically, you know, your stamina builds up, and so on.

事实是，当你在那里度过大约三到四个星期时，你的血液中就会有更多的氧气，你会有更多的睾丸激素，你的身体会得到改善，你知道，你的耐力会增强，等等。

And this base was sort of my father’s dream.

这个基地是我父亲的梦想。

He started building it back in 2016, 2017.

他早在 2016 年、2017 年就开始建造它。

Money was tight back then.

那时候钱很紧张。

22:09 It was really hard, but we built it little by little.

确实很难，但是我们一点一点地做到了。

In 2020, my father passed away, but I kept the project going just a little differently, on a bigger scale.

2020 年，我的父亲去世了，但我以稍微不同的方式，以更大的规模继续推进这个项目。

Right now, the base is open, and 100 people can be there at the same time, training, eating, sleeping.

现在基地已经开放，可以同时容纳100人，训练、吃饭、睡觉。

And our guys hold their training camps up there.

我们的人在那里举办训练营。

So this was sort of my father’s dream that I have pretty much brought to life.

所以这是我父亲的梦想，我几乎已经实现了。

It’s a powerful story.

这是一个强有力的故事。

22:44 To return to the place where you were born up in the mountains in order to build a sports complex where champions train.

回到你出生的山里，建造一座冠军训练的体育场馆。

Makhachkala Gym is a great place, but the mountains are special.

Makhachkala Gym是个很棒的地方，但是山上有特别之处。

Mountains are mountains.

山就是山。

Mountains are mountains.

山就是山。

Your home village, no matter what, on some sort of deeper level, somehow gives you that, you know, like Americans love to say, positive energy.

你的家乡，无论如何，在某种更深层次上，以某种方式给你，你知道，就像美国人喜欢说的那样，正能量。

22:59 Not everything has to be done for money.

并非所有事情都必须为了钱而做。

And you know, you shouldn’t just look for profit in everything, let’s say financially.

你知道，你不应该在所有事情上都只追求利润，比如说经济上的利润。

There are certain things that don’t bring me anything at all except for expenses, but I still do all of it because it brings me a lot of happiness and meaning.

有些事情除了开支之外根本不会给我带来任何东西，但我仍然做了所有这些，因为它给我带来了很多快乐和意义。

First of all, it creates a lot of jobs.

首先，它创造了大量就业机会。

People can work and earn a living.

人们可以工作并谋生。

Second, it’s because my father really wanted this.

其次，这是因为我父亲真的想要这个。

Third, let’s say the guys can train and improve up there, both physically and spiritually.

第三，假设这些人可以在那里训练和提高，无论是身体上还是精神上。

There are just so many benefits there.

那里有很多好处。

I don’t know if it’s okay to ask something like this, but I would dream of coming out there to Dagestan, and not just to Makhachkala, but to Sildi.

我不知道问这样的问题是否可以，但我梦想去达吉斯坦，不仅去马哈奇卡拉，还去西尔迪。

23:51 Is that even possible for me?

这对我来说可能吗？

I think we could film a really good story out there.

我认为我们可以在那里拍摄一个非常好的故事。

24:02 I’m not sure about a podcast, but I’m sure we could shoot a really nice vlog there.

我不确定播客，但我确信我们可以在那里拍摄一个非常好的视频博客。

So can you tell me a bit about the journey from Makhachkala all the way to Sildi?

那么您能告诉我一些从马哈奇卡拉一直到锡尔迪的旅程吗？

Four hours.

四小时。

24:18 Well, 3:40.

嗯，3点40分。

Through the mountains?

穿过山脉？

Yeah, 3:30, 3:40 through the mountains.

是的，3点30分、3点40分穿过山。

24:20 The road is a real winding one, not an easy ride.

这条路确实蜿蜒曲折，行驶起来并不轻松。

If it gets to be too hard for you, we can just take a helicopter.

如果你觉得太难了，我们可以乘坐直升机。

It’s no problem at all.

完全没问题。

Like 40 to 50 minutes from Makhachkala to Sildi.

从马哈奇卡拉到锡尔迪大约需要 40 到 50 分钟。

Otherwise, keeping it more down to earth, we go by car, so there’s absolutely no problem.

除此之外，更接地气的是，我们开车去，所以绝对没有问题。

I could never get used to a wealthy life.

我永远无法适应富裕的生活。

24:39 It’s just, it’s not in my blood to be like that.

只是，我的血液里没有这样的性格。

All right, then we’ll go by car.

好吧，那我们就坐车去吧。

Yeah, we could go on horseback, but a car is better.

是的，我们可以骑马，但汽车更好。

No, no, by car is better.

不不，开车更好。

24:49 On horseback takes way too long.

马背上的时间太长了。

So you mentioned money, and we were just talking about comfort because right now there are so many champions.

所以你提到了钱，我们只是在谈论舒适度，因为现在有很多冠军。

24:52 They win so much.

他们赢了很多。

Things are going so well.

事情进展顺利。

How much harder is it to stay a champion when the money and the fame start coming in, when all that stuff starts showing up?

当金钱和名誉开始涌入，当所有这些东西开始出现时，保持冠军有多难？

Well, those are all distracting things.

嗯，这些都是分散注意力的事情。

25:13 When you become a champion, there’s a massive amount of attention on you.

当你成为冠军时，你会受到大量关注。

Sometimes it’s contracts, sometimes you end up having to fly a lot, you start getting busy with things, and little by little you begin to miss your workouts.

有时是合同，有时你最终不得不飞很多次，你开始忙于事情，渐渐地你开始怀念你的锻炼。

You miss one, you miss two, you miss three.

你错过了一个，你错过了两个，你错过了三个。

And all of that takes a toll, and the person who used to train with such a drive, with a hunger to be the best, as soon as they actually become the best, they just don’t know what to do next.

所有这一切都会造成损失，那些曾经带着这样的动力、渴望成为最好的人训练的人，一旦他们真正成为最好的，他们就不知道下一步该做什么。

And they live their whole life just to become stay on the top.

他们一生的努力就是为了保持巅峰。

25:54 As soon as they get there, what are they supposed to do?

一旦他们到达那里，他们应该做什么？

That’s it.

就是这样。

They already made it.

他们已经做到了。

They’ve reached their goal, and there are just so many distracting factors: money, flights, you know, meetings, contracts, video shoots.

他们已经达到了目标，但有太多干扰因素：金钱、航班、会议、合同、视频拍摄。

There are just so many distracting factors.

干扰因素太多了。

And so if a person doesn’t know how to handle all of this, then that person comes down from the top real fast.

因此，如果一个人不知道如何处理所有这一切，那么这个人就会很快从高层走下来。

And I’m saying this based on my own experience, from what I’ve seen all around me with the ones who came before me.

我这样说是基于我自己的经历，来自我所看到的周围人和我之前的人。

And back then when I was training with my father, his students who went on to become world champions, just how they finished their careers and so on.

当时我和父亲一起训练时，他的学生后来成为了世界冠军，他们是如何完成自己的职业生涯的等等。

And it’s what I saw from my own observations of other types of sports, how they came back down, as far as I’ve learned.

据我所知，这就是我从自己对其他类型运动的观察中看到的，以及它们是如何回落的。

26:47 This is a very delicate moment.

这是一个非常微妙的时刻。

If a person climbing all the way to the top, if they can handle all of that, that already shows they have an incredibly serious mindset.

如果一个人一路攀登到顶峰，如果他们能够处理所有这些，那就已经表明他们有一个非常严肃的心态。

Reaching the championship and staying there, reaching it is one thing, but staying a champion, that’s totally different.

达到冠军并保持在那里，达到它是一回事，但保持冠军，那是完全不同的。

It’s incredibly tough.

这非常艰难。

You’re saying that even on a local level, once you become a champion, that’s already the tough moment because a lot of people who start winning, like you said, they stop fighting, they quit doing MMA and switch over to fitness.

你是说，即使在地方层面上，一旦你成为冠军，那已经是艰难的时刻，因为很多人开始获胜，就像你说的，他们停止战斗，他们放弃综合格斗并转向健身。

27:07 They find themselves that comfort.

他们发现自己很安慰。

But holding onto it is hard, even on a local level.

但即使在地方层面上，坚持下去也很困难。

Every single time you become more and more of a champion, you won the Sambo championship, you keep winning more and more, and every time it gets harder.

每一次你变得越来越成为冠军，你就赢得了三宝冠军，你不断赢得越来越多的胜利，而且每一次都变得更加困难。

Yes, and it depends on the person’s goals.

是的，这取决于人的目标。

27:42 If you want to become an amateur champion just to prove something to yourself, that’s one thing.

如果你想成为业余冠军只是为了向自己证明一些东西，那是一回事。

But if you view amateur sports as a springboard to jump right into professional sports and become a champion among professionals, that’s a whole different thing.

但如果你将业余运动视为直接跳入职业运动并成为职业冠军的跳板，那就完全是另一回事了。

There are different paths.

有不同的路径。

First, you build an amateur career just to get into the pros and go even further from there.

首先，你建立业余职业生涯只是为了进入职业选手并从此走得更远。

Second, after you’ve made it into the pros, you become a champion.

其次，当你成为职业选手后，你就成为了冠军。

And third, after you become a champion, you have to stay there.

第三，当你成为冠军后，你必须留在那里。

Not everyone has what it takes.

并不是每个人都具备所需的条件。

It is incredibly tough.

这是非常艰难的。

If you look at the numbers, you can literally count these champions on one hand.

如果你看数字，你一只手就能数出这些冠军。

How many of them are there?

他们有多少人？

Maybe 15, 20, 30 people?

也许 15、20、30 人？

28:30 Let’s say 50 over the last 30 years, and how many have tried?

假设过去 30 年有 50 个这样的人，有多少人尝试过？

For example, 50 achieved it over 30 years, over 35 years of MMA combat sports.

例如，有 50 人在超过 30 年的时间里取得了这一成就，在 MMA 格斗运动中超过 35 年。

But how many tried?

但有多少人尝试过呢？

Hundreds of thousands.

数十万。

And look at that number.

看看那个数字。

Such a tiny amount actually reached the end goal.

这么小的数额，居然达到了最终的目的。

So for you to actually make it into this tiny list, you really have to be like just a truly unique person and a fighter and, you know, a student, and a person who can accept guidance from a coach who, when they are being guided, discard the cons and take only the pros.

因此，要真正进入这个小名单，你真的必须像一个真正独特的人和一个战士，你知道，一个学生，一个可以接受教练指导的人，当他们被指导时，抛弃缺点，只取优点。

But there are people who take criticism very hard and very negatively, and are very sensitive, let’s say, when they take criticism-

但有些人对待批评非常严厉、非常消极，而且非常敏感，比如说，当他们接受批评时——

29:22 …

……

from a mentor.

来自导师。

So it all has to click, and some accept criticism at the very beginning, but then once they become champions, it’s hard for them to take it.

所以一切都必须顺利，有些人一开始就接受批评，但一旦他们成为冠军，他们就很难接受。

29:34 It happens differently.

情况有所不同。

A man sometimes doesn’t even know what he is capable of.

一个人有时甚至不知道自己能做什么。

Sometimes he just can’t really understand himself until he achieves success or becomes famous, wealthy, and powerful.

有时他只是无法真正了解自己，直到他取得成功或变得出名、富有和有权势。

That is exactly when he discovers his true qualities.

正是在那时，他发现了自己的真正品质。

When he is limited in something, in money, in power, in everything that success eventually brings him, he doesn’t really know how he’s going to act in this new role, doesn’t know how he’ll behave once he becomes big, famous, and a champion.

当他在某些事情上受到限制时，在金钱、权力以及成功最终给他带来的一切方面，他真的不知道自己将如何扮演这个新角色，也不知道一旦他变得伟大、出名、成为冠军，他会如何表现。

Nobody knows.

没有人知道。

Some people say and wish, “Oh, if only I’d made it like that, I would do things this way.” I think it’s better if people don’t throw around such big words because you never know how you’ll carry yourself once you actually get there.

有些人说并希望：“哦，如果我能做到那样就好了，我就会这样做。”我认为人们最好不要乱说这些大话，因为你永远不知道一旦你真正到达那里，你会如何表现。

30:31 You know, it’s such a delicate thing, getting up there and still remaining human.

你知道，爬到那里并仍然保持人性是一件非常微妙的事情。

When it comes to you, I see that everyone here just loves you.

说到你，我发现这里的每个人都爱你。

30:39 Even early on in your career, millions of people loved you.

即使在你职业生涯的早期，就有数百万人爱你。

That is also a tough thing to deal with because maybe you start believing it.

这也是一件很难处理的事情，因为也许你开始相信它。

And you can lose yourself in all of it.

你可能会在这一切中迷失自己。

So is it all in the mind?

那么这一切都是在心里吗？

I mean, what actually goes on in a champion’s head?

我的意思是，冠军脑子里到底在想什么？

In yours when you sat alone thinking about your life, “Who am I really, and what do I do to keep being a champion or to become one?”

当你独自坐着思考你的生活时，“我到底是谁？我该怎么做才能继续成为冠军或成为冠军？”

Well, first of all, from the very beginning, if you realize that what you’re chasing isn’t the most important thing in life, then it gets easier for you.

好吧，首先，从一开始，如果你意识到你所追求的并不是生活中最重要的事情，那么这对你来说会变得更容易。

31:14 And then, you know, there are some people whose, let’s say, ultimate goal is to be successful, powerful, and to make it big.

然后，你知道，有些人的最终目标是成功、强大、做大。

At the end of the day, after all, we are not really such big, important people.

归根结底，我们并不是真正那么重要的人。

And, like, I believe it’s wrong to just crown yourself king because, to put it bluntly, if we’re being honest here, we can’t even control the basic need to go to the restroom.

而且，就像，我认为给自己加冕是错误的，因为，坦率地说，如果我们在这里说实话，我们甚至无法控制去洗手间的基本需要。

Maybe to some…

也许对某些人来说……

Yeah.

是的。

To some people this will probably seem a bit crude, but we all go to the restroom, excuse my language.

对于某些人来说，这可能看起来有点粗鲁，但我们都会去洗手间，请原谅我的语言。

If we can’t control even this, so what can we actually control in this life?

如果连这个都无法控制，那么这一生我们又能控制什么呢？

32:18 Look how many people we know, how many great people have left this earth.

看看我们认识了多少人，有多少伟人离开了这个地球。

It doesn’t really matter how, like, big, strong, or famous you are, how wealthy you are, champion or no champion.

你有多高大、有多强、有多出名、有多富有、有没有冠军，这些都不重要。

Either way, they put us all in the exact same grave, you know, two meters down or, like, a meter or a meter and a half.

不管怎样，他们把我们都放在同一个坟墓里，你知道，在地下两米，或者一米或一米半的地方。

Different confessions, different religions, they bury people in different ways.

不同的信仰、不同的宗教，他们以不同的方式埋葬人。

So I actually believe that every single person should have this realization that we are just not some kind of big, important people here who just decide and get to control everything.

所以我实际上相信每个人都应该认识到我们并不是这里的某个大而重要的人，他们只是决定并控制一切。

We don’t get to do that.

我们不能那样做。

In my case, I was raised under the guidance of my father.

就我而言，我是在父亲的指导下长大的。

My father was a coach, and my goal was always to become…

我父亲是一名教练，我的目标始终是成为……

33:08 To prove to my father that out of everyone, even though he trains many other people, he trains everyone, I mean, I’m also here.

为了向我父亲证明，在每个人中，尽管他训练了很多其他人，但他训练了每个人，我的意思是，我也在这里。

I can show him.

我可以给他看。

He doesn’t have to look very far.

他不必看得很远。

I’m right there, and under his guidance, I can become a champion.

我就在那里，在他的指导下，我可以成为冠军。

I looked up to him and followed his example, trained hard, and it was like, you know, a kind of a challenge to prove to him that, “Look, I am right here, Father, and everything you teach, I will take it all in zealously, worthily.

我尊敬他，以他为榜样，刻苦训练，你知道，这就像一种挑战，要向他证明：“看，我就在这里，父亲，你教的一切，我都会热心地、有价值地接受。

I’ll follow your program, do it right, and I will become a champion.” And that was exactly the kind of goal I had, to prove it first and foremost to my father and secondly to the entire world that I can become the best wrestler or fighter.

我会遵循你的计划，做得正确，我会成为冠军。”这正是我的目标，首先向我的父亲证明，其次向全世界证明我可以成为最好的摔跤手或拳击手。

But I never thought of being crowned king after I became a champion.

但我从来没有想过在成为冠军后加冕为王。

34:07 I was never going to walk around like, “Look how cool I am.” That was never in my head, and I’m really glad that the Almighty protected me from all of that because many people end up in a bad place if they act like that.

我从来不会一边走一边说：“看看我多酷。”我从来没有想过这样的事，我真的很高兴全能的上帝保护我免受这一切的影响，因为如果他们这样做，很多人最终都会陷入困境。

This is a profound wisdom, not thinking about being crowned.

这是高深的智慧，不思加冕。

34:22 But even if you don’t, a fire should burn within you, driving you to become a champion, right?

但即使你不这样做，你内心也会燃烧一团火焰，驱使你成为冠军，对吗？

As you said, hundreds of thousands, millions of people want to be a champion, but only one can be.

正如你所说，数十万、数百万人想成为冠军，但只有一个人可以。

Yeah, but that is actually about you confronting your opponent.

是的，但这实际上是你面对你的对手。

34:37 You’ve got to put a barrier inside your mind where on one side you’re a humble person, but on the other side you’re different because you have a goal, your goal.

你必须在你的内心设置一道屏障，一方面你是一个谦虚的人，但另一方面你又是不同的，因为你有一个目标，你的目标。

Of course, you should still follow a code of honor.

当然，您仍然应该遵守荣誉准则。

You should be a man, a righteous man, and know what you can and cannot do.

你应该是一个男人，一个正义的人，知道自己能做什么，不能做什么。

You should always do that.

你应该总是这样做。

But in the end, your opponent is the person who wants to stop your dream.

但最终，你的对手是想要阻止你梦想的人。

So here the boundaries expand just a little bit.

所以这里的界限稍微扩大了一些。

Right here, you’re already not playing humble.

在这里，你已经不谦虚了。

Right here, you just step out and you want to clear your opponent out of your way, and that’s it, because your goal is to be the best in the world and they are blocking you.

就在这里，你只要走出去，你就想把对手清除，仅此而已，因为你的目标是成为世界上最好的，而他们正在阻挡你。

Excuse me, but in this situation, there’s no way you can act all humble.

对不起，在这种情况下，你不可能表现得很谦虚。

Okay.

好的。

35:34 But when you were training in the gym, what was it that gave you this strength?

但是当你在健身房训练的时候，是什么给了你这样的力量呢？

A hatred of losing or a love for winning?

是对失败的憎恶还是对胜利的热爱？

I think it was the hatred of losing.

我想这就是对失败的仇恨。

35:45 Yes, definitely.

是的，绝对是。

I mean, you know, of course you want to win, but for me there was always this driver like, “No way.

我的意思是，你知道，你当然想赢，但对我来说，总是有这样的车手，“不可能。

I am not losing,” you know.

我不会输，”你知道。

When they would give me a fight, I always tell this to my guys, whenever they would give me a fight on a professional level, 100 days before it I was…

当他们要和我打架时，我总是告诉我的队友，每当他们要和我进行职业级别的战斗时，100 天前我……

How do you say it?

你怎么说呢？

Addiction.

瘾。

I was fixated like when people have this addiction.

我很着迷，就像人们有这种瘾一样。

But for me it was commitment, that I absolutely had to prepare perfectly for the fight.

但对我来说，这是一种承诺，我绝对必须为战斗做好充分的准备。

I couldn’t miss any training sessions.

我不能错过任何培训课程。

I would literally have, like, this panic.

我真的会感到恐慌。

Like, for example, I’d fly somewhere and I have, let’s say, eighty-five days left until the fight.

比如说，我要飞往某个地方，距离比赛还有八十五天。

36:36 Like, I knew that I had to fly.

就像，我知道我必须飞翔。

For example, if I was flying to Moscow, I would always pick a ticket so I could absolutely do my morning training session first.

例如，如果我飞往莫斯科，我总是会选择一张机票，这样我绝对可以先进行早上的训练。

Then I’d take off around lunchtime.

然后我会在午餐时间起飞。

And once I arrived in Moscow, for whatever reason, I had to fit it all around my training schedule.

当我到达莫斯科后，无论出于什么原因，我都必须将其融入我的训练计划中。

Either I had to meet up before my training sessions or I had to meet up after my training sessions.

我要么必须在培训课程之前见面，要么必须在培训课程之后见面。

And I simply could not miss that evening training session because I had to train during the day from four to five hours, two in the morning and two to two and a half in the evening.

我根本不能错过晚上的训练，因为我白天必须训练四到五个小时，早上两个小时，晚上两个到两个半小时。

And I needed to prepare myself that way.

我需要这样做好准备。

Looking at who was in Moscow right then, wondering who I could, like pull into a training session there.

看看当时谁在莫斯科，想知道我能和谁一起参加那里的训练。

37:22 Well, they also had to– the person had to match my level as well.

嗯，他们也必须——这个人也必须符合我的水平。

Not just like I showed up there, you know, played around with him.

不只是像我出现在那里，你知道，和他一起玩。

I needed a fight back.

我需要反击。

I would arrange in advance who was gonna come.

我会提前安排谁来。

Maybe some sparring, maybe I’d do wrestling, maybe I’d hit the weights, maybe a striking workout.

也许是一些陪练，也许我会摔跤，也许我会举重，也许是一次引人注目的锻炼。

So I had this, let’s say I always had this tough and scientific approach to it.

所以我有这个，假设我一直有这种强硬而科学的方法。

So I believe that more than anything, I didn’t want to lose rather than I wanted to win, you know?

所以我相信，最重要的是，我不想输，而不是想赢，你知道吗？

Of course, winning is also a huge pleasure, but more than anything, I just didn’t want to lose.

当然，获胜也是一种巨大的快乐，但最重要的是，我只是不想输。

So in all those hard training sessions, you were thinking about not losing.

所以在所有那些艰苦的训练中，你都在想着不要输。

37:59 That’s the fuel.

这就是燃料。

The fuel.

燃料。

Four to five hours every single day.

每天四到五个小时。

Every day.

每天。

There is a story that I heard.

有一个故事我听过。

38:07 Sadulaev, the legendary wrestler, told a story that he went to a hotel, I think it was in Moscow, to train in the gym, and he was the only– It was during the night, I don’t know.

传奇摔跤手萨杜拉耶夫（Sadulaev）讲了一个故事，他去了一家酒店，我想是在莫斯科，在健身房训练，而他是唯一的——那是在晚上，我不知道。

He was the only one who was there.

他是那里唯一的人。

And you came down- …

然后你就下来了——……

And you actually trained together.

你们实际上一起训练过。

And he said a lot of great things about you.

他说了很多关于你的好话。

He said that you gave him some really deep wisdom, which helped him to win the gold medal at the Olympic Games.

他说你给了他一些很深的智慧，帮助他在奥运会上获得了金牌。

I’m curious, could you tell us now what you told him?

我很好奇，你现在能告诉我们你告诉了他什么吗？

What kind of wisdom did you give him?

你给了他什么样的智慧？

I can’t remember exactly, but we had really great conversations.

我记不太清楚了，但我们的谈话非常愉快。

It’s a great story that the two of you, like two legends like that, just met completely by chance.

这是一个很棒的故事，你们两个就像两个传奇人物一样，完全是偶然相遇的。

Well, look, he’s a two-time Olympic champion, right?

好吧，看，他是两届奥运会冠军，对吧？

Right.

正确的。

I think he doesn’t skip his training either.

我认为他也不会跳过训练。

39:00 He never missed one back then.

那时他从来没有错过过任何一个。

I believe that we both ended up there because we both, you know, hate to lose, and we both really want to win.

我相信我们最终都到达了那里，因为我们都讨厌失败，而且我们都非常想赢。

And, you know, recently I came across this idea.

而且，你知道，最近我想到了这个想法。

There are athletes who simply want to win, and then there are some for whom victory isn’t enough.

有些运动员只是想获胜，而有些运动员则认为胜利还不够。

They want domination.

他们想要统治。

I believe that he is one of those as well.

我相信他也是其中之一。

They want domination.

他们想要统治。

And for that, what does a person have to do?

为此，一个人必须做什么？

They have to train.

他们必须训练。

They have to grind morning and night.

他们必须早晚都磨磨蹭蹭。

And there was this thing with us.

我们身边就有这样的事。

After the morning, my father never let us sleep.

早上起来之后，父亲就再也不让我们睡觉了。

When I say the morning, I mean after Fajr, the dawn prayer.

当我说早晨时，我指的是晨礼之后的黎明祈祷。

He just wouldn’t sleep himself, so we couldn’t either.

他自己就是不肯睡觉，所以我们也不能。

So every morning, six, seven, we’d be out doing our warm-up.

所以每天早上六点、七点，我们都会出去热身。

39:55 Some people might call it a warm-up, but when you show up at the stadium in the morning, you run five kilometers, you do sprints, you work with resistance bands, you work on the pull-up bar, you do push-ups, dips, jumps, you know the bands then work with a partner, drilling and so on.

有些人可能称之为热身，但当你早上出现在体育场时，你跑五公里，你进行冲刺，你使用阻力带，你在引体向上，你做俯卧撑，臂屈伸，跳跃，你知道阻力带然后与伙伴一起工作，练习等等。

That’s about two hours of work.

这大约是两个小时的工作时间。

You drop two, two and a half kilos there.

你在那里掉了两公斤、两公斤半。

Not really a warm-up, but Father always called it that, right?

并不是真正的热身，但父亲总是这么称呼它，对吧？

That was a full morning training at seven AM.

那是早上七点的完整上午训练。

Then I came home to rest, and at four o’clock, we’d head to the gym.

然后我回家休息，四点钟我们就去健身房。

The training would start at five o’clock and end at seven.

训练从五点开始，七点结束。

By eight, I’d be home, and by eleven, I’d rest up.

八点钟我就回家了，十一点钟我就休息了。

And yet I kept thinking that something was missing.

但我一直认为缺少了一些东西。

40:45 Like, I know that I have a start, a competition coming up in like forty or thirty days, and I would wake up and I’d be like, “Let me go to the sea.

就像，我知道我有一个开始，四十或三十天后就要举行比赛，我会醒来，我会说，“让我去海边吧。

I’m gonna go down to the sea, do some running, some sprints on the sand, work out, and so on.” And so many times, I ended up going out for a third training session as well.

我要去海边，跑步，在沙滩上冲刺，锻炼等等。”很多次，我最终也出去参加了第三次训练。

Sometimes Father would say, “Rest.

有时父亲会说：“休息吧。”

In the morning, we’re gonna have a heavy workload.” But sometimes I wouldn’t tell Father.

早上我们的工作量会很大。”但有时我不会告诉父亲。

I’d just go out at night, head out, and train.

我只是晚上出去，出去训练。

At night when everyone’s asleep, when nobody’s around, I’d grab one of my close friends, give them a call, have them pick me up, then hop in the car and head to the sea.

晚上，当每个人都睡了，周围没有人的时候，我会拉上一位亲密的朋友，给他们打电话，让他​​们来接我，然后跳上车，前往大海。

I’d train for an hour or an hour and a half, come back, and crash.

我会训练一个小时或一个半小时，回来后就崩溃了。

Next morning, I’d get up and start all over again.

第二天早上，我会起床并重新开始。

41:31 And just this routine, nonstop.

就这样例行公事，不间断。

And when I see guys, you know, when they do just one training session or like they say, “On Wednesday, we have a morning training, then an evening sauna session.” What do you mean?

当我看到球员时，你知道，当他们只进行一次训练时，或者像他们说的那样，“周三，我们进行早上训练，然后进行晚上桑拿训练。”你是什​​么意思？

You have to fight in fifty days.

五十天内你必须战斗。

You have a huge fight ahead and you want to take a rest in the middle of the week?

您即将面临一场激烈的战斗，并且想在周中休息一下吗？

Well, rest on Sunday.

嗯，周日休息吧。

On Saturday, do a morning training, hit the sauna in the evening, take a complete rest on Sunday, and start all over again on Monday.

周六早上训练，晚上去桑拿，周日彻底休息，周一重新开始。

That was just my approach.

这就是我的做法。

Everyone does it differently.

每个人的做法都不同。

I don’t know.

我不知道。

I just think it has to be in your head.

我只是认为它必须在你的脑海中。

You’ve got to want it incredibly badly.

你一定非常想要它。

So you believe that to be a champion, you have to train like that, you have to be that serious for the majority of people?

所以你认为要成为冠军就必须这样训练，必须对大多数人那么认真？

Let’s say I believe that to be at the top, the top tier, right?

假设我相信自己是顶尖的，顶级的，对吧？

42:18 One of the best in the world.

世界上最好的之一。

A person has to always be, you know, a little bit, let’s say just a little bit crazy, but in a good sense of the word.

一个人必须总是，你知道，有一点点，比如说有一点点疯狂，但是在这个词的良好意义上。

You have to be addicted to it and to want this incredibly bad.

你必须对它上瘾，并且非常想要这种感觉。

You have to take a fanatical approach to the training process.

你必须对训练过程采取狂热的态度。

Just showing up and working out, that’s what hundreds of thousands of guys are doing around the world.

只是出现并锻炼身体，这就是世界各地成千上万的人正在做的事情。

To stand out from that, from this crowd, let’s say, who have the exact same goals as you do, to stand out from that, you have to take a fanatical approach to it.

为了从中脱颖而出，从这群人中脱颖而出，比方说，从与你有着完全相同目标的人群中脱颖而出，你必须采取狂热的态度。

Well, look, I’m training with John Danaher.

好吧，看，我正在和约翰·丹纳赫一起训练。

43:03 And they train like that too.

他们也这样训练。

They train three times a day.

他们每天训练三趟。

And it actually feels right this way.

事实上，这种感觉是正确的。

I mean, of course, this is how you have to train.

我的意思是，当然，这就是你必须训练的方式。

‘Cause of that, John has one of the best-

“正因为如此，约翰拥有最好的之一——

Yeah, he makes champions.

是的，他创造了冠军。

…

……

43:18 students in the world, and after all, they don’t just take some random place.

世界上的学生，毕竟，他们不只是随机占据某个地方。

I mean, they’re not somewhere in the middle.

我的意思是，他们不在中间。

They’re at the top, and look at their whole approach.

他们处于顶层，审视他们的整个方法。

Some people…

有些人……

Look, a person with that kind of approach just can’t be somewhere in the middle.

看，采用这种方法的人不可能处于中间位置。

It’s impossible.

这是不可能的。

If you have a fanatical attitude, the right attitude toward the training process, on top of that, you have to be fanatical about it.

如果你有狂热的态度，对训练过程有正确的态度，最重要的是，你必须对此狂热。

You love what you do, and in the end, there will be results.

你热爱你所做的事，最终就会有结果。

Well, just look at John and look where his guys are.

好吧，看看约翰，看看他的人在哪里。

He creates champions.

他创造了冠军。

He finds a champion in everyone, across every category, right?

他在每个类别的每个人中都找到了冠军，对吗？

He makes, he creates champions, not just one or two, but all of them.

他创造了冠军，他创造了冠军，不仅仅是一两个冠军，而是所有冠军。

44:01 He finds a champion in everyone, across every category.

他在每个类别的每个人身上都找到了冠军。

Look, the people who come to him, he has a system, let’s say, right?

你看，来找他的人，他有一个系统，可以说，对吧？

44:11 Under this roof, under his roof, there is a system.

在这个屋檐下，在他的屋檐下，有一个系统。

People come here, and they become champions in this system.

人们来到这里，他们成为这个系统的冠军。

So there are people there who are champions.

所以那里有人是冠军。

These are specific established names.

这些是特定的既定名称。

And there are other people who came and left.

还有其他人来了又离开了。

They entered that black room, so to say, an uncomfortable place.

他们进入了那个黑屋子，可以说是一个不舒服的地方。

They went in, stood for a year, a year and a half or two, and left.

他们进去了，站了一年、一年半或两年，然后就离开了。

Nobody talks about them.

没有人谈论他们。

These are the people who came in, broke mentally, and left, and there aren’t just a few of them.

这些人进来了，精神崩溃了，然后离开了，而且这样的人不只少数。

There are a lot.

有很多。

Usually, most people give up.

通常，大多数人都会放弃。

There are many who give up, but then there are the ones who come in and stay there for a long time.

有很多人放弃了，但也有一些人进来并在那里呆了很长时间。

Long, long time.

很久很久了。

And after some time, they achieve success.

一段时间后，他们取得了成功。

They become the best.

他们成为最好的。

45:08 They prove to themselves that once they enter the system, they could stay there for a long time, endure, and become the best.

他们向自己证明，一旦进入体制，他们就可以在那里呆很长一段时间，坚持下去，并成为最好的。

They prove that they are already capable of many things.

他们证明自己已经有能力做很多事情。

They can be trusted to supervise big, important projects.

他们可以被信任来监督大型、重要的项目。

I would even say, for example, 2,000 years ago, they could easily rule entire cities.

我什至会说，比如2000年前，他们可以轻松地统治整个城市。

So a person who has gone through it physically, who has lived through it, who has faced challenges, passed the tests, they are capable of a lot, highly capable.

因此，一个在身体上经历过它、经历过它、面对过挑战、通过了考验的人，他们有很多能力，非常有能力。

You don’t just walk into martial arts and become the best.

你不只是走进武术并成为最好的。

It’s very difficult.

这是非常困难的。

It means that you go through pain, you make sacrifices, you give your time, you face setbacks and failures in training.

这意味着你在训练中经历痛苦、做出牺牲、付出时间、面对挫折和失败。

The mental strength and capacity mean a lot there.

精神力量和能力在那里意义重大。

46:04 And when I talk about his system, look, I mean those schools that became the best, let’s say, in football or in freestyle wrestling or, let’s say, in MMA, in grappling, or in judo.

当我谈论他的体系时，你看，我指的是那些在足球、自由式摔跤、综合格斗、擒拿或柔道方面成为最好的学校。

It’s really hard to enter one of the best schools in the world, to stay when they are breaking you, throwing you, choking you, to improve as a person and as an athlete, and to become a champion.

进入世界上最好的学校之一，在他们摧毁你、抛弃你、窒息你的时候留下来，作为一个人和作为一名运动员进步，并成为冠军，真的很难。

It takes at least 12 years, 10 to 12 years, maybe 15.

至少需要12年，10到12年，也许15年。

For some, it took longer.

对于一些人来说，需要更长的时间。

And to get through the grind for these 15 years and then to break through and become the best is worth a lot.

经历这15年的磨难，然后突破并成为最好的，是非常值得的。

Have you had those tough moments where you’re almost broken psychologically?

你有没有经历过那些心理上几乎崩溃的艰难时刻？

46:47 You know, just sitting there, finding it hard to breathe, and everything is going wrong, lost in some situations.

你知道，只是坐在那里，发现呼吸困难，一切都不对劲，在某些情况下迷失了方向。

And when you were young, was there ever a moment like that?

当你年轻的时候，有没有这样的时刻？

‘Cause the guys from Dagestan on the team, really great guys, by the way, all say they’ve never seen you broken in training, not even losing really.

因为队里来自达吉斯坦的球员，非常出色的球员，顺便说一句，他们都说他们从未见过你在训练中崩溃，甚至没有真正输过。

But when you were young, did it ever happen?

但你年轻的时候，有过这样的经历吗？

Look, I’ve been in this grind since I was a kid.

瞧，我从小就一直在这种苦差事中。

47:23 Wherever my father coached, there were always…

无论我父亲在哪里执教，总是有……

Let’s take the year 2004, for example.

我们以 2004 年为例。

My father put together the Dagestan national team for combat sambo and in mixed martial arts, which was called no-holds-barred fighting.

我父亲组建了达吉斯坦国家桑博队和混合武术队，这被称为无限制格斗。

There were training camps, too.

也有训练营。

I was 15.

那年我15岁。

It was the winter of 2004, and I was the youngest guy there.

那是 2004 年的冬天，我是那里最年轻的人。

The others were, let’s say, between 22 and 30, all active world champions.

其他人年龄在 22 岁到 30 岁之间，都是现役世界冠军。

At that time, I was, like, 14, 15 years old.

那时，我大概14、15岁。

I wrestled with them, grappled, was in this uncomfortable environment for myself, where we always had the rule that the youngest has to do everything, and he is always wrong, and I had to deal with that.

我和他们摔跤，扭打，在这个对我自己来说不舒服的环境中，我们总是有这样的规则，最小的孩子必须做所有的事情，而他总是错的，我必须处理这个问题。

Yeah.

是的。

Especially in the gym, they throw you, hit you again and again.

尤其是在健身房里，他们一次又一次地扔你、打你。

48:19 You have to show up morning and evening, day after day.

你必须早晚都出现，日复一日。

This place hardens you.

这个地方让你变得坚强。

They say, “How the Steel Was Tempered.” Steel isn’t tempered for nothing.

他们说：“钢铁是怎样炼成的”。钢不是无缘无故的。

How many times do you have to strike the steel before it becomes a sword?

钢铁要敲击多少次才能成为剑？

That doesn’t just happen by itself.

这不会自动发生。

Did you believe in yourself then?

那时你相信自己吗？

Some of the guys who were at those camps back then, they’re grown men now.

当时在这些营地的一些人现在已经是成年人了。

48:43 Even then, they were older than me by 10, 12, maybe 15 years.

即便如此，他们也比我年长 10 岁、12 岁、甚至 15 岁。

And they always used to say, “Khabib, we honestly thought you were going to become some kind of scholar or scientist.” Because my father was always making me read and write, read and write.

他们总是说：“哈比卜，我们真诚地认为你会成为某种学者或科学家。”因为我父亲总是让我读、写、读、写。

I would copy out entire books by hand.

我会用手抄写整本书。

There was always this control.

这种控制总是存在的。

It wasn’t like he’d say, “Khabib, go do this”, and you could just walk away and not do it.

这不像他会说，“哈比卜，去做这个”，然后你就可以走开而不做。

When he said, “Go do it”, you did it.

当他说“去做吧”时，你就做到了。

My father never forgot anything.

我父亲从来没有忘记过任何事情。

He had a phenomenal memory.

他有惊人的记忆力。

He’d be like, “Did you do it?” And everything he told you, he remembered.

他会说：“你做到了吗？”他告诉你的一切，他都记得。

He just did.

他刚刚做到了。

He checked you.

他检查了你。

He was like, “Come here.” And he’d check.

他说：“过来。”他会检查。

49:31 I knew it wasn’t something I could get away with.

我知道这不是我可以逃脱的事情。

So, you know, since childhood, I was lucky that my father always kept me close, and I found myself in this environment among fighters who at that time- …

所以，你知道，从小到大，我很幸运，我的父亲总是让我亲近，我发现自己处于这样的环境中，周围都是战士，当时他们——……

were, I don’t know, they just didn’t compete in America and Europe back then.

我不知道，他们只是当时没有在美国和欧洲参加比赛。

But in the post-Soviet space, they were the best at that time.

但在后苏联时代，他们是当时最好的。

And it helped me a lot to become mentally strong.

它对我的心理变得坚强有很大帮助。

Tell me more about your father.

告诉我更多关于你父亲的事。

50:04 You’ve read a lot.

你读了很多书。

You didn’t just fight.

你不只是战斗。

You were well-rounded and you told several stories about this.

你很全面，并且讲了几个关于这方面的故事。

There was a book, what is it called?

有一本书，叫什么名字？

“Countries and Peoples.”

“国家和人民。”

Yes, from my childhood.

是的，从我的童年开始。

It is, really.

确实如此。

Yes.

是的。

And it went on-

事情继续——

The approach was the same.

方法是一样的。

Tell that story because I think it’s important for the parents listening to us to understand this.

讲这个故事是因为我认为听我们讲话的父母理解这一点很重要。

50:25 You’re not just trying to create a champion.

你不只是想创造一个冠军。

You’re trying to raise a well-rounded person, a wise person, a person with depth.

你正在努力培养一个全面发展的人、一个聪明的人、一个有深度的人。

Yes, you have to give the right motivation to kids with proper communication.

是的，你必须通过适当的沟通给孩子正确的动力。

50:40 My father was very good at this.

我父亲在这方面非常擅长。

I now realize interacting with my own kids how wise he was and how deeply he understood this.

现在，在与我自己的孩子互动时，我意识到他是多么明智，他对这一点的理解是多么深刻。

Because when a child is eight, 10 years old, and when they are just beginning to form as a person, it is important to have the right approach.

因为当孩子八岁、十岁的时候，当他们刚刚开始形成一个人的时候，采取正确的方法很重要。

I now understand how farsighted my father’s approach was.

我现在明白了父亲的做法是多么有远见。

51:09 First, he tried not to give me anything for free.

首先，他尽量不免费给我任何东西。

Only sometimes I could get something for free.

只是有时候我可以免费得到一些东西。

For example, before a holiday, like Eid al-Fitr or before school started, Father would give money.

例如，在节日之前，比如开斋节或者开学之前，父亲会给钱。

I’d go buy clothes at the market for back to school, that kind of thing, you know?

我会去市场买回学校穿的衣服，诸如此类的事情，你知道吗？

And at other times, he always told me, “Well, if you want it, you need to earn it.

其他时候，他总是告诉我，“好吧，如果你想要它，你就需要赢得它。

You want me to give you money just like that?” There would be some work around the house and so on that I had to do.

你就这么想让我给你钱吗？”房子周围会有一些我必须做的工作等等。

And I knew that encouragement would always be there.

我知道鼓励永远存在。

My father always had this kind of approach.

我的父亲一直都是这样的做法。

He set a very strong personal example, very strong, and I really learnt a lot from him.

他树立了非常坚强的个人榜样，非常坚强，我确实从他身上学到了很多东西。

Took a lot.

花了很多。

And then, as you mentioned, there was the book, Countries and Peoples.

然后，正如您提到的，有《国家和人民》一书。

Someone gave it to him as a gift.

有人把它作为礼物送给了他。

52:02 My father read through it, and he realized that it was perfect for me, for a child who was 10, 11, maybe 12 at the time.

我父亲读完了这本书，他意识到这对我来说是完美的，适合我这个当时 10 岁、11 岁、也许 12 岁的孩子。

That book was part of my life for about two or three years, something like that.

那本书成为我生活的一部分大约有两三年之久。

It was about 193 countries.

大约有 193 个国家。

52:18 The geography, history, all the details.

地理，历史，所有的细节。

For each country, it describes its geographical location, which countries it bordered, its major rivers, mountains, cities, history, economy, finances.

对于每个国家，它描述了它的地理位置、与哪些国家接壤、它的主要河流、山脉、城市、历史、经济、财政。

52:23 Just brief information about every country.

只是每个国家的简要信息。

My father said, “You’ll tell me about each country, and I’ll give you money for it.” And I thought, “All right.” I knew this was like my own little capital just sitting there waiting for me.

我父亲说：“你告诉我每个国家的情况，我会给你钱。”我想：“好吧。”我知道这就像我自己的小资本就在那里等着我。

All I had to do was come, take that book, read it, understand it.

我所要做的就是来，拿起那本书，阅读它，理解它。

Then my father would take the book and say, “Now, tell me what you read.” And he would check.

然后我父亲会拿起书说：“现在，告诉我你读了什么。”他会检查。

He would look through it.

他会仔细看一遍。

The countries were arranged alphabetically.

这些国家按字母顺序排列。

A for Andorra, Angola, and so on.

A 代表安道尔、安哥拉等。

B for Belgium, Brazil, and so on.

B代表比利时、巴西等。

Everything went in alphabetical order.

一切都按字母顺序排列。

I started from A and read them all straight to the very end.

我从A开始，一直读到最后。

53:18 Like every single time when I needed the money, I did that.

就像每次我需要钱的时候一样，我就这么做了。

And for example, I go over the first 40 countries, he’d check a box, and then I continued.

例如，我浏览了前 40 个国家，他会勾选一个框，然后我继续。

That’s how my father would test me.

这就是我父亲考验我的方式。

Let’s just say that my knowledge of geography comes from back then.

这么说吧，我的地理知识就是从那时开始的。

Did you realize how big the world was?

你意识到世界有多大吗？

No.

不。

As a child, you don’t understand?

作为一个孩子，你不明白吗？

At that time, I didn’t understand.

当时我不明白。

53:46 But since then, I’ve had this desire to travel.

但从那时起，我就有了旅行的愿望。

I really wanted to travel, visit different countries, see wonders of the world, the Colosseum, the pyramids.

我真的很想去旅行，参观不同的国家，看看世界奇观，罗马斗兽场，金字塔。

But all of this is from childhood, from what I read and wrote.

但这一切都是来自童年，来自我读过和写过的。

It wasn’t just about reading.

这不仅仅是关于阅读。

I also had to rewrite it.

我也不得不重写它。

I had to write it down.

我必须把它写下来。

I always wrote down what I read.

我总是写下我读到的内容。

And actually, this is very good advice for parents, you know.

事实上，这对父母来说是非常好的建议，你知道。

They can use this with their children too.

他们也可以与他们的孩子一起使用这个。

They can tell them to sit down and copy books by hand.

可以叫他们坐下来手抄书。

First of all, eyesight improves.

首先，视力提高。

Reading improves.

读书有进步。

Writing, how you write improves.

写作，你的写作方式得到改善。

Your handwriting.

你的笔迹。

And it stays with you when you read and write.

当您阅读和写作时，它会一直伴随您。

It really develops a child.

确实能培养孩子。

Not only I believe that, I actually do advise parents to motivate their kids this way.

我不仅相信这一点，实际上我也建议父母以这种方式激励孩子。

54:52 You can simply create some kind of challenge that children benefit from and reward them for it after it is done.

您可以简单地创建某种让孩子们受益的挑战，并在完成后奖励他们。

This really helps develop a child’s mind.

这确实有助于孩子心智的发展。

I actually saw advice from the great writers who said that they remembered doing the same thing when they were young.

我实际上看到了一些伟大作家的建议，他们说他们记得年轻时也做过同样的事情。

55:06 When they first started writing, they just simply copied other legendary writers.

当他们刚开始写作时，他们只是简单地抄袭其他传奇作家。

You read their work and then you type it out yourself, and you start absorbing that style into your bloodstream.

你阅读他们的作品，然后自己打字，然后你开始将这种风格吸收到你的血液中。

Well, it needs to be done in childhood.

嗯，这需要在童年时完成。

Sure.

当然。

When the child is ready to learn and his mind is open, let’s say as a metaphor, when his table is clean, not occupied with clutter, then as a father, you can help them place all the right things on the table in their proper place.

当孩子准备好学习并且他的思想开放时，打个比方，当他的桌子干净，没有杂物时，那么作为父亲，你可以帮助他们将桌子上所有正确的东西放在适当的位置。

55:32 Let’s say put the food in one place, flowers in another, something like that.

假设将食物放在一个地方，将鲜花放在另一个地方，类似这样的事情。

It is important.

这很重要。

That’s why I believe I was very lucky.

这就是为什么我相信我很幸运。

My father did the right thing.

我父亲做了正确的事。

He provided me with the right kind of information, and I learned a lot just from being around him.

他为我提供了正确的信息，我从他身边学到了很多东西。

I learned so much just from his presence.

从他的存在中我学到了很多东西。

He was there at home, and then we also went to competitions.

他在家，然后我们也去比赛。

He was always there at trainings and at camps, so I absorbed a lot from him, and it was interesting for me too.

他总是在训练和训练营中出现，所以我从他身上学到了很多东西，这对我来说也很有趣。

56:31 Of course, when you’re a teenager, sometimes you’re tired, sometimes you want to break free.

当然，当你十几岁的时候，有时你会很累，有时你想挣脱束缚。

All of that was there.

所有这些都在那里。

But my father had the right approach.

但我父亲的做法是正确的。

He influenced me a lot and in the right way.

他以正确的方式影响了我很多。

And there’s the physical component too of hard work.

还有努力工作的体力部分。

56:49 There’s a story you told about the time he made you dig a big hole just because it was difficult.

你讲过一个故事，有一次他让你挖一个大洞，只是因为这很困难。

There’s wisdom in that.

这里面有智慧。

That you just need to work.

你只需要工作。

You need to stay busy all the time.

你需要一直保持忙碌。

These were training camps from two thousand and five to two thousand and seven.

这些是从2005年到2007年的训练营。

57:05 In the summer, we went to the mountains.

夏天，我们去了山里。

There was a children’s camp there, an old Soviet-style pioneer camp where we stayed doing our runs in the forest.

那里有一个儿童营地，一个古老的苏联风格的拓荒者营地，我们在那里在森林里跑步。

Together, we built a small training area there with a rope, a punching bag, a pull-up bar.

我们一起在那里搭建了一个小型训练区，配有绳子、沙袋和引体向上杆。

We did sprints there.

我们在那里进行了冲刺。

We pulled resistance bands.

我们拉动阻力带。

After running in the mountains, we would come back and work there.

跑完山，我们就回来工作。

There were almost no mats.

几乎没有垫子。

We built the base ourselves.

基地是我们自己建的。

It had a dining room on the first floor and an attic space where we slept.

一楼有一个餐厅和一个我们睡觉的阁楼空间。

We would come downstairs, eat, go outside, train in that little sports area, then run in the forest.

我们会下楼，吃饭，出去，在那个小运动区训练，然后在森林里跑步。

It was somewhere around twelve hundred meters above sea level, a conifer forest.

那是在海拔一千二百米左右的地方，一片针叶林。

We spent the whole summer there.

我们在那里度过了整个夏天。

57:55 There we’d train in the morning, then there was nothing to do all day, and in the evening we had training sessions again.

我们早上在那里训练，然后一整天无所事事，晚上我们又进行训练。

But during the day, so we wouldn’t be busy with unnecessary things, my father sometimes gave us work.

但白天，为了不让我们忙于不必要的事情，父亲有时会给我们安排工作。

And we’d ask, “Why are we digging this pit?” He’d say, “Well, people used to use it like a refrigerator.

我们会问：“我们为什么要挖这个坑？”他会说：“嗯，人们过去常常像冰箱一样使用它。

When you dig two or three meters down, it is cold inside.

往下挖两三米，里面很冷。

You can put milk there, cheese, things like that, so the food does not go bad.” And we were like, “Okay, but do we really need these refrigerators every day?” So in that sense, this was his approach back then.

你可以在里面放牛奶、奶酪之类的东西，这样食物就不会变质。”我们想，“好吧，但我们真的每天都需要这些冰箱吗？”所以从这个意义上来说，这就是他当时的做法。

He always had this kind of unique approach.

他总是有这种独特的做法。

Well, what’s the philosophy here?

那么，这里的哲学是什么？

58:36 That you gotta be busy all the time, working hard, doing something difficult.

你必须一直忙碌，努力工作，做一些困难的事情。

Yes, it’s very dangerous to give a child free time in adolescence.

是的，在青春期给孩子自由的时间是非常危险的。

58:42 They should always be busy learning new information, improving, acquiring new skills.

他们应该始终忙于学习新信息、改进、获取新技能。

A person should always be busy.

一个人应该永远忙碌。

When you’re sixteen, well, what can be on your mind?

当你十六岁的时候，你脑子里会想什么呢？

You should constantly develop and improve.

你应该不断地发展和提高。

And by this time, you should already, I believe, have decided what you want to become.

我相信，到这个时候，你应该已经决定了你想成为什么。

You should already be investing in what you want to turn into.

你应该已经在投资你想要变成的东西了。

By the way, you had several very good conversations with Nurlan, with Adam, which I highly recommend.

顺便说一句，你与努尔兰、亚当进行了几次非常好的对话，我强烈推荐。

59:15 In one of them, your brother Abubakar told a story that when you were young, there were several street fights, maybe many, I don’t know.

其中一篇，你哥哥阿布巴卡讲了一个故事，你年轻的时候，有过几次街头打架，也许很多，我不知道。

He said he was the one who got you into it.

他说是他让你陷进去的。

You were kind of bigger, and he needed protection at that time.

你的体型比较大，那时候他需要保护。

You were that protection.

你就是那个保护。

Can you tell us these stories?

你能告诉我们这些故事吗？

How often did you fight on the streets of Dagestan?

你们在达吉斯坦街头打架的次数有多少次？

Well, let’s start with the fact that I never bullied anyone.

好吧，让我们从我从未欺负过任何人的事实开始。

59:46 Never.

绝不。

Although I physically could bully, yes, let’s say I had the capability.

虽然我身体上可以欺负人，但是，是的，假设我有这个能力。

I wasn’t the kind of person who started the fights.

我不是那种挑起争吵的人。

You didn’t start?

你没开始？

I didn’t.

我没有。

1:00:01 Well-

嗯-

Tried to finish.

试图完成。

Well, maybe there were some moments, but mostly no.

好吧，也许有一些时刻，但大多数时候没有。

1:00:04 Mostly I didn’t start.

主要是我没有开始。

Abubakar, sure, he was like that.

阿布巴卡尔，当然，他就是这样的。

In my circle, I had some guys who were a little bit like that.

在我的圈子里，有一些人有点像那样。

He said that he’s a bit of-

他说他有点——

He was a troublemaker.

他是个麻烦制造者。

Yes, yes.

是的，是的。

He was a troublemaker, and because of him, I got into trouble many times.

他是个麻烦制造者，因为他，我多次陷入麻烦。

1:00:21 When you’re, let’s say, fourteen, fifteen years old and your brother is fighting, you don’t really ask who’s right or who’s wrong.

比方说，当你十四岁、十五岁的时候，你的兄弟在打架，你不会真正问谁对谁错。

You just go in, you start to, as we say, you interfere.

你一进去，你就开始干涉，正如我们所说的。

You just have to go in, right?

你只需要进去就可以了，对吗？

But when you’re older, more conscious, when you’re twenty, twenty-five or thirty years old, this is when you really start telling him, “You know, Abubakar, I think you’re wrong here.

但当你年纪更大、更有意识时，当你二十岁、二十五岁或三十岁时，这就是你真正开始告诉他的时候，“你知道，阿布巴卡，我认为你错了。

Yes, we’ll finish this right now, but in the future, I wouldn’t want you to get involved because I think it’s wrong, right?” Well, as kids, we just didn’t ask.

是的，我们现在就完成这件事，但是以后，我不想让你参与其中，因为我认为这是错误的，对吧？”好吧，作为孩子，我们只是没有问。

We just went right in.

我们就直接进去了。

1:01:09 When we moved to Makhachkala in the nineteen ninety-nine, let’s say the end of nineteen ninety-nine, so there were– we were many brothers, more than ten of us.

当我们在十九世纪九十九年代搬到马哈奇卡拉时，假设是十九世纪九十九年底，所以我们有很多兄弟，我们有十多个人。

We lived in one house.

我们住在一所房子里。

Some were in school, some in college, some in university.

有的在学校，有的在大学，有的在大学。

But we all had one routine.

但我们都有一个惯例。

We trained in the morning, then went to school.

我们早上训练，然后去学校。

We’d come home, rest, do homework, then train in the evening, come home and rest without mothers, just by ourselves.

我们回家休息，做作业，然后晚上训练，回家休息，没有妈妈在身边，只有我们自己。

Father gathered everyone.

父亲把大家召集起来。

He took in close friends and family, his nephews, cousins, relatives, those who didn’t have a father, and so on.

他接纳了亲密的朋友和家人、他的侄子、表兄弟姐妹、亲戚、那些没有父亲的人等等。

He took them in, and we all lived in one house.

他收留了他们，我们都住在一所房子里。

We cooked, cleaned, did laundry all by ourselves.

我们自己做饭、打扫卫生、洗衣服。

It was like, well, some kind of army life, you know?

这就像，嗯，某种军队生活，你知道吗？

1:01:59 And when the brothers had some problems, let’s say misunderstandings, we didn’t go easy on those guys.

当兄弟俩遇到一些问题，比如误会时，我们不会对他们宽容。

And even those who lived around there near that house, in that district, in the settlement, everyone knew that there were lots of brothers living there.

甚至那些住在那个房子附近、那个地区、那个聚居地的人，都知道那里住着很多兄弟。

So they had to be careful.

所以他们必须小心。

And we had a football field there.

我们那里有一个足球场。

It was right in front of the house, and everyone who came to play there, we constantly had fights there, misunderstandings.

就在房子前面，每个来那里玩的人，我们经常在那里打架，产生误会。

There were older brothers.

还有哥哥们。

They were always watching us, keeping us from trouble.

他们总是注视着我们，不让我们遇到麻烦。

“Don’t do this.

“别这样做。

Don’t do that.

不要那样做。

Watch your mouth.” But we had our own little group.

注意你的嘴。”但我们有自己的小团体。

The age difference between us was maybe two, three years.

我们之间的年龄相差大概有两、三岁。

There were five or six of us.

我们有五六个人。

We’d always go outside and play football.

我们总是出去踢足球。

1:02:58 If our team was losing, then the game would just turn into a whole different sport, and that’s how we were growing up.

如果我们的球队输了，那么比赛就会变成一项完全不同的运动，这就是我们成长的方式。

We spent six, seven years there, almost ten years.

我们在那里度过了六、七年，差不多十年了。

We were living together, growing, training.

我们一起生活、成长、训练。

A lot has happened over that time, but I was never…

那段时间发生了很多事情，但我从来没有……

Well, maybe just a couple of times, okay?

好吧，也许就几次，好吗？

Mostly, I was never the initiator of fights with some exceptions.

大多数情况下，除了一些例外，我从来都不是打架的发起者。

I just remember since childhood, my father always told me, “You don’t need to use force on the street.” My father looked at all of this in a completely different way.

我只记得从小到大，父亲总是告诉我：“你不需要在街上使用武力。”我父亲以完全不同的方式看待这一切。

What is your understanding of the difference between the street fight and sports?

您对街头打架和体育运动之间的区别有何理解？

There is a very big difference.

有很大的不同。

1:03:49 I saw many fights where if you put those same guys into sparring, in wrestling, MMA or combat Sambo, one guy could beat the other very easily.

我看过很多比赛，如果你让这些人参加拳击、摔跤、综合格斗或桑博比赛，一个人可以很容易地击败另一个人。

But the street is completely different.

但街道就完全不同了。

There are no rules, no referees, no points.

没有规则，没有裁判，没有分数。

You just fight there, and it’s totally different.

你只要在那里战斗，那就完全不同了。

I can say I actually had a major turning point in my life.

可以说，我的人生确实经历了一个重大的转折点。

Let’s say the one that, in terms of psychology, really changed my whole attitude towards MMA.

就心理学而言，这确实改变了我对 MMA 的整体态度。

1:04:37 Back in twenty oh two, twenty oh three, my father kept me in wrestling.

早在二十点二点、二十点三点的时候，我父亲就让我摔跤。

He trained MMA combat Sambo, but wanted me to stay in wrestling.

他训练综合格斗桑博，但希望我继续摔跤。

My cousin, who was older than me by a couple of months, he was training with my father.

我的表弟比我大几个月，他正在和我父亲一起训练。

His freestyle wrestling was weak, so my father sent him to me, to the place where I was training.

他的自由式摔跤很弱，所以我父亲把他送到我身边，送到我训练的地方。

It was called the School of Higher Sports Mastery.

它被称为高等体育掌握学院。

The local guys from the city know this place.

城里的当地人都知道这个地方。

He came to practice and got into it with a guy in our gym who was heavier, maybe one class heavier.

他来训练并和我们健身房里的一个更重的人一起训练，也许比他重一个级别。

This guy was the best in his weight, winning Dagestan and the city too.

这个家伙的体重是最好的，也赢得了达吉斯坦和这座城市的胜利。

So they got into a conflict.

于是他们就发生了冲突。

They were arguing.

他们正在争论。

My brother had just joined.

我弟弟刚刚加入。

He was new to our freestyle wrestling gym, right?

他是我们自由式摔跤馆的新人，对吧？

But I knew the other guy well.

但我很了解另一个人。

They paired up and they got into it.

他们配对并投入其中。

1:05:39 Well, that’s my brother, right?

嗯，那是我的兄弟，对吗？

So the guy goes, “Let’s meet up after.” And they agreed, as we say, to step outside after the training.

于是那人就说：“我们一会儿见吧。”正如我们所说，他们同意在培训结束后走出去。

I remember it was raining heavily, a real downpour.

我记得当时正下着倾盆大雨，倾盆大雨。

The guy brought his brother.

那家伙带来了他的兄弟。

I came with mine.

我带着我的来了。

We went outside and they started fighting one-on-one.

我们走到外面，他们开始一对一地打斗。

I remember he shot in, lifted and took him down.

我记得他射了进去，把他举起来，然后把他打倒了。

Abdurakhman, my brother, threw up a triangle and he choked him out.

我的兄弟阿卜杜拉赫曼（Abdurakhman）吐出一个三角形，把他掐死了。

When we went out, I was thinking Abdurakhman will lose to this guy.

当我们出去时，我以为阿卜杜拉赫曼会输给这个家伙。

I even visualized it happening, the whole thing.

我什至想象它正在发生，整个事情。

Like, this guy beats him, and then I start fighting.

就像，这个家伙打败了他，然后我就开始战斗。

Well, I’m not going there for my brother to lose.

好吧，我不会去那里让我的兄弟输掉。

In my head, I was getting into a fight.

在我的脑海里，我正在陷入一场战斗。

But he threw him locked up in a triangle.

但他把他锁在一个三角形里。

1:06:37 For the first time, I saw with my own eyes how someone chokes another person with a triangle and they lose consciousness.

我第一次亲眼目睹一个人如何用三角窒息另一个人并失去知觉。

Wow.

哇。

They fought, he put him to sleep.

他们吵架了，他把他哄睡了。

1:06:46 We had to pull them apart, me and other guys.

我们必须把我和其他人分开。

Fights over, Abdurrahman won.

战斗结束，阿卜杜拉赫曼获胜。

And on the way home, I’m like, “Abdurrahman, wow.

在回家的路上，我想，“阿卜杜拉赫曼，哇。

You impress me.” I came home and immediately told my father.

你让我印象深刻。”我回到家，立即告诉了父亲。

I said…

我说……

That was in 2002 or ’03, if I’m not mistaken.

如果我没记错的话，那是在 2002 年或 03 年。

I am 14 years old.

我今年14岁。

I said, “I’m switching to combat Sambo.” I said, “What Abdurrahman did, the one he choked out, he’s not just anyone in the gym.

我说：“我要转战三宝了。”我说：“阿卜杜拉赫曼所做的事，他被噎住的那个人，他不仅仅是健身房里的任何一个人。

He’s one of the best wrestlers, but he couldn’t do anything.” My father said, “You’ll go to wrestling, but you’ll come to me, I’ll teach you.

他是最好的摔跤手之一，但他无能为力。”我父亲说：“你会去摔跤，但你会来找我，我会教你。

You’ll learn techniques here and so on.

您将在这里学习技术等等。

But I want you to gain wrestling skills.” I started going three days to train with my father, three days to wrestling.

但我希望你能掌握摔跤技巧。”我开始和父亲一起训练三天，摔跤三天。

1:07:44 And at that moment, I realized that no matter how strong the wrestler is, lying on the back is where the wrestling normally ends, but MMA only begins there.

那一刻我意识到，无论摔跤手多么强壮，仰卧都是摔跤通常结束的地方，但MMA却只是从这里开始。

And I was like, I thought, “I need this.

我想，“我需要这个。

I need this mixed style.” I realized this was for me.

我需要这种混合风格。”我意识到这是给我的。

I started going to my father’s trainings, despite that he didn’t let me.

我开始参加父亲的训练，尽管他不让我参加。

He didn’t want me to do fighting.

他不想让我打架。

I think most people don’t know this.

我想大多数人都不知道这一点。

My father wanted me to do freestyle wrestling or judo, but in my head, I already had this mixed style.

我父亲希望我练习自由式摔跤或柔道，但在我的脑海里，我已经有了这种混合风格。

I always wanted to compete.

我一直想参加比赛。

I was already getting tapes to watch.

我已经准备好要观看的磁带了。

I always wanted to compete where there are no rules, where I could fully use my skills.

我一直想在没有规则的地方竞争，在那里我可以充分发挥我的技能。

Maximum freedom.

最大的自由度。

Yes, judo, Sambo, freestyle, grappling, jujitsu.

是的，柔道、桑博、自由泳、擒拿、柔术。

1:08:30 More people knew jujitsu than grappling.

了解柔术的人多于了解格斗的人。

After that, I switched, and from there my journey slowly started, which I had already begun.

之后我就换了，从那里开始我的旅程慢慢开始了，我已经开始了。

That’s when I started the amateur journey.

就在那时，我开始了业余之旅。

Then when I started getting good results as an amateur, I realized that I can switch to pro and achieve success.

然后，当我作为业余选手开始取得好成绩时，我意识到我可以转为职业选手并取得成功。

Sambo.

三宝。

In combat Sambo.

在战斗三宝中。

Combat Sambo.

战斗三宝。

I competed in all kinds of sports.

我参加了各种体育运动。

Everything that involves wrestling and fighting.

一切涉及摔跤和打斗的事情。

I competed everywhere.

我到处参加比赛。

I competed in freestyle, in judo, in grappling, in combat Sambo.

我参加了自由泳、柔道、格斗、桑博比赛。

I competed in sport Sambo, in hand-to-hand combat, in pankration.

我参加过桑博运动、肉搏战、跆拳道比赛。

My father put me in all competitions.

我父亲让我参加所有比赛。

He would say, “You have a competition here and another one there.

他会说：“这里有一场比赛，那里还有一场比赛。

Now you are preparing for this one.

现在你正在为此做准备。

1:09:25 You will compete in this weight, under these rules, in this sport.” And he was sending me everywhere.

你将按照这些规则，以这个体重参加这项运动。”他派我到处去。

He would tell me, “You will need this in the future.

他会告诉我：“你将来会需要这个。

The more competition experience you have, the more relaxed and confident you’ll feel.

你的比赛经验越多，你就会感到越放松和自信。

It builds up over time.” When I was young, I was losing as well.

它会随着时间的推移而积累。”当我年轻的时候，我也曾失败过。

I go to a judo competition, win two matches and lose two matches.

我参加柔道比赛，赢了两场比赛，输了两场比赛。

I would ask, “Father, why are you sending me there?

我会问：“神父，你为什么送我去那里？

This is not my sport.” And he’d say, “No, go and compete.” So, okay, I went, I cut weight.

这不是我的运动。”他会说：“不，去参加比赛吧。”所以，好吧，我去了，我减肥了。

The next day you come in, you see 50 competitors in your weight class.

第二天您进来时，您会看到您体重级别的 50 名参赛者。

You let this weight, this competitive energy pass through you, and psychologically you get better, better, better each time.

你让这种重量、这种竞争能量通过你，心理上你每次都会变得更好、更好、更好。

You become more relaxed about it.

你对此变得更加放松。

1:10:13 And this moment really affected me, although then I didn’t agree with my father.

这一刻确实影响了我，尽管当时我并不同意我父亲的观点。

Back then I thought, “Why should I compete in other sports?” He said, “You can wrestle, right?

当时我想：“我为什么要参加其他运动？”他说：“你会摔跤，对吧？

Well, go wrestle.” I was saying, “But judo isn’t my sport.

嗯，去摔跤吧。”我说：“但柔道不是我的运动。

It’s hard for me there.” He says, “Well, you went on four times.

那里对我来说很难。”他说：“好吧，你已经说了四次了。

Look, you won twice, then lost twice.

看，你赢了两次，然后又输了两次。

You competed four times.

你参加了四次比赛。

You’re 15 years old.

你今年 15 岁了。

You’re just developing.

你只是在发展。

Do you know how valuable this experience is for you?

你知道这段经历对你来说有多宝贵吗？

Four matches in one day.” Now when I’m coaching, I understand the psychological approach, how important it is.

一天四场比赛。”现在当我执教时，我明白了心理方法的重要性。

I realize now how correctly he prepared me for the big stage.

我现在意识到他为我进入大舞台做好了多么正确的准备。

The preparation was already happening then when I was 15 years old.

当我15岁时，准备工作就已经开始了。

1:11:08 For example, when I went into the biggest fight in combat sports history, when I fought in 2018 here in Las Vegas.

例如，2018 年我在拉斯维加斯参加了格斗运动史上规模最大的一场比赛。

At that point, I was already at my peak, prime time.

那时，我已经处于巅峰，黄金时间。

I was 30 years old.

那年我30岁了。

I went through all possible competitions as an amateur and a professional.

我作为业余选手和职业选手参加了所有可能的比赛。

And you know what?

你知道吗？

I was ready.

我已经准备好了。

This preparation, it started back then when I was 15.

这个准备，是在我15岁的时候就开始的。

It’s not like they give you a fight and you prepare for two months.

这并不是说他们要和你打架，而你要准备两个月。

Preparation starts long before you even step into the octagon.

在你踏入八角形之前，准备工作就已经开始了。

So this experience of competitions, which started at 15, it continued, it expanded.

所以这种从15岁开始的比赛经历一直持续着，并且不断扩大。

Yeah, of course.

是的，当然。

So can you explain what was going on in your head?

那么你能解释一下你脑子里发生了什么吗？

I didn’t want to lose.

我不想输。

1:12:01 I just didn’t.

我只是没有。

It never occurred to me that I could get hurt, that someone could hurt me, that I might break a finger somewhere.

我从来没有想过我会受伤，有人会伤害我，我可能会在某个地方折断手指。

I never had that in my head, that I could get hit, that I’d get a scratch, and so on.

我脑子里从来没有想过我可能会被击中、我会被划伤等等。

I don’t know if you can call it perfectionism.

我不知道你是否可以称之为完美主义。

I didn’t want to lose.

我不想输。

And to not lose, I knew I needed to compete a lot and improve.

为了不输，我知道我需要大量竞争并提高。

Training is one thing, but competing is different.

训练是一回事，但比赛又是另一回事。

I understood that the more I competed, the more experience I would gain.

我明白，我参加的比赛越多，我获得的经验就越多。

I had to go through it.

我必须经历它。

It was constantly on my mind.

它一直在我的脑海里。

This understanding that I must compete a lot came to me at an early age, since I was fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, and I never stopped thinking about it.

我从小就明白自己必须参加很多比赛，从我十五岁、十六岁、十七岁、十八岁起，我就从未停止过思考这个问题。

So it was always in the back of my mind.

所以它一直在我的脑海里。

Were you confident that you would win?

你有信心自己会赢吗？

In my youth?

在我的青春里？

1:12:58 No.

不。

Were you afraid to lose?

你害怕失去吗？

Yeah, in my youth, I wasn’t always so sure.

是的，在我年轻的时候，我并不总是那么确定。

1:13:01 I just wasn’t.

我只是不是。

Because I never stood out.

因为我从来没有脱颖而出。

Yes, I had a coach for a father, and how many, how many trainers have kids who compete but aren’t successful?

是的，我有一个父亲教练，有多少教练的孩子参加比赛但没有成功？

And then when I went to the big leagues, you know, I had already fought.

然后当我去大联盟时，你知道，我已经战斗过了。

I had done sixteen professional fights across the post-Soviet space.

我在后苏联时期参加过十六场职业拳击比赛。

Later, when I was already signed to the UFC, there I already had this feeling.

后来当我已经签约UFC的时候，我就已经有了这种感觉。

You know, with each fight, I was getting mentally stronger.

你知道，每一次战斗，我的精神都变得更加坚强。

My mind was becoming more and more solid, like concrete.

我的心变得越来越坚固，像混凝土一样。

When I went out there, I knew, yes, these are fights.

当我出去时，我知道，是的，这些都是战斗。

Yes, you can take a hit.

是的，你可以承受打击。

Yes, anything can happen when knees, elbows, fists are flying, when you can get caught in a choke, you know?

是的，当膝盖、肘部、拳头飞舞时，当你可能被窒息时，任何事情都可能发生，你知道吗？

But I thought, “If they don’t knock me out, how will they beat me?

但我想：“如果他们不把我击倒，他们怎么能打败我呢？

1:14:05 I have fifteen minutes.

我有十五分钟。

Fifteen minutes is enough to make a person tired.” I’m like, “Okay, if you wanna stop me, come here.

十五分钟就够让人累的了。”我说：“好吧，如果你想阻止我，就到这里来。

I’ll give you that chance.

我会给你这个机会。

Let’s get in the octagon.” I had this impatience during fight week.

我们进入八角形吧。”我在战斗周期间很不耐烦。

I wanted to go in there and feel my opponent.

我想进去感受一下我的对手。

I just wanted to be inside the cage for them to close us in, for the referee to say, “Ready?

我只是想待在笼子里，让他们把我们关在笼子里，让裁判说：“准备好了吗？

Ready.

准备好了。

Fight.” And here I wanted to feel, to grapple with him and feel his strength, his skills, his energy, and for it not to stop.

战斗吧。”在这里，我想要感受，与他搏斗，感受他的力量、他的技巧、他的能量，并且让它不停歇。

And with any opponent I felt from the beginning, and I didn’t actually have superhuman strength.

而面对任何一个对手，我从一开始就感觉到，我其实并没有超人的力量。

But from the beginning, when I grabbed them in the first minute and then in the sixth or seventh minute, I could feel them fading.

但从一开始，当我在第一分钟抓住它们，然后在第六或第七分钟时，我能感觉到它们正在消失。

1:15:04 I was, let’s say, like squeezing this energy out of them, and I was getting better and better minute by minute.

可以说，我喜欢从他们身上榨取这种能量，而且我一分钟一分钟地变得越来越好。

Can you break down the technical details of your top pressure?

您能详细分析一下您的顶部压力的技术细节吗？

1:15:15 That pressure you put on in wrestling, on the ground, all of it.

你在摔跤中施加的压力，在地面上，所有这些。

How does it work?

它是如何运作的？

Can you explain the philosophy behind it?

您能解释一下其背后的哲学吗？

Over the years, I’ve learned to use my strength properly.

多年来，我学会了正确使用自己的力量。

1:15:29 There’s this sport called aikido.

有一种运动叫做合气道。

I don’t like it much, but I like their philosophy, where your strength might work against you.

我不太喜欢它，但我喜欢他们的哲学，你的力量可能会对你不利。

I think for a lot of listeners, this is gonna be a brand-new sport.

我认为对于很多听众来说，这将是一项全新的运动。

But there is this sport called aikido, and the whole philosophy behind it is using your opponent’s force against them.

但有一项叫做合气道的运动，它背后的整个哲学就是利用对手的力量来对抗他们。

That’s what I learned to do.

这就是我学会做的。

And I have learned to force an opponent into positions where they have to escape, wasting their energy.

我学会了迫使对手进入他们必须逃跑的境地，浪费他们的精力。

Like when we were sparring yesterday.

就像昨天我们打架的时候一样。

1:16:07 That’s exactly what I wanted.

这正是我想要的。

I wanted you to feel that energy, that heavy top pressure.

我想让你感受到那种能量，那种沉重的顶部压力。

We could have just played around.

我们本来可以只是玩玩。

I could have gone easy on you, but I wanted you to feel the real heavy pressure.

我本可以对你宽容一点，但我想让你感受到真正沉重的压力。

And of course, please don’t think it was a sign of disrespect.

当然，请不要认为这是不尊重的表现。

It’s quite the opposite.

事实恰恰相反。

No, it was respect.

不，这是尊重。

I just wanted you to feel that, you know, how exhausting it can be.

我只是想让你感觉到，你知道，这有多累。

1:16:26 I think you felt it yourself that it was a bit different from the kind of grappling you’ve dealt with before.

我想你自己也感觉到了，这和你以前处理过的那种格斗有点不同。

I’m sure of it.

我确信这一点。

The only one who’s even close to that is, I mean, you’re the absolute number one.

唯一接近这一点的是，我的意思是，你是绝对的第一。

1:16:40 But the only thing is, when I trained with Roger Gracie in a different sport, you get that same feeling with him.

但唯一的事情是，当我和罗杰·格雷西一起训练另一项运动时，你会对他有同样的感觉。

Like, the guy is just insanely heavy.

就像，这家伙实在是太重了。

Mm-hmm.

嗯嗯。

1:16:50 Pressure.

压力。

Pressure.

压力。

Well, Roger, he’s the greatest, too.

好吧，罗杰，他也是最伟大的。

He’s the greatest in his own sport.

他在自己的运动中是最伟大的。

What makes a person unique is his style, his style and his approach to his work.

一个人的独特之处在于他的风格、风格和工作方法。

I always approach my craft very professionally, you know, respectfully.

我总是非常专业地对待我的手艺，你知道，尊敬地。

I believe that if you’re gonna be in this game, in this sport, you have to completely dedicate yourself to it.

我相信，如果你想参加这项比赛、这项运动，你就必须完全投入其中。

But I think you had a deep understanding of how to break an opponent, both physically and psychologically, just looking at your style.

但我认为你对如何从身体上和心理上击败对手有深刻的理解，只要看看你的风格。

I’ve always been right there, always fighting for position.

我一直都在那里，总是为位置而战。

1:17:28 I always– Look, I mean that I just always had this thought in my head.

我总是——听着，我的意思是我脑子里一直有这个想法。

My grandfather always told me, “A dog that latches onto that one weak spot always wins.” It’s the same with a fighter.

我的祖父总是告诉我，“抓住弱点的狗总是获胜。”战斗机也是如此。

When you’re fighting on pure instinct, you feel your opponent’s weakness.

当你纯粹凭本能战斗时，你会感受到对手的弱点。

You know where they’re weak, and you have to keep pressing right there.

你知道他们的弱点在哪里，你必须继续向那里施压。

For example, let’s say I’m fighting Conor, right?

例如，假设我正在与康纳战斗，对吧？

His strengths are his striking, his timing and his speed, his boxing.

他的强项是他的打击、他的时机、他的速度、他的拳击。

Why would I stand and strike with him?

我为什么要站着和他一起打？

What am I supposed to do?

我该怎么办？

I have to put pressure on his weak spot.

我必须对他的弱点施加压力。

So that’s what separates the fighters who reach success, the highest level of success, and become the best of the best.

这就是那些取得成功、达到最高成功水平并成为最优秀的战士的区别。

1:18:27 They know how to find an opponent’s weakness, and they pressure it relentlessly.

他们知道如何找到对手的弱点，并毫不留情地对其施加压力。

So it all comes down to having the right strategy here.

所以这一切都取决于这里有正确的策略。

Your fight with Conor, I think, was the biggest fight in UFC history.

我认为你与康纳的战斗是 UFC 历史上最大的一场战斗。

1:18:40 That’s for sure.

这是肯定的。

Well, actually, in all of sports.

嗯，实际上，在所有体育运动中。

Do you think there will ever be another fight of that magnitude in the UFC?

您认为 UFC 中还会再发生如此规模的比赛吗？

Is it even possible?

有可能吗？

Well, let’s look at the history here.

好吧，让我们看看这里的历史。

1:18:55 I mean, our sport is still very young, say thirty-five years old, starting from the ’90s.

我的意思是，我们的运动还很年轻，比如说三十五岁，从上世纪九十年代开始。

Put it this way.

这样说吧。

Take, for example, the sport most similar to MMA, which is, well, let’s say boxing.

举例来说，与 MMA 最相似的运动是拳击。

How old is boxing?

拳击有多少年历史了？

A hundred and fifty years?

一百五十年？

Like, when you think boxing, what pops into your head?

就像，当你想到拳击时，你的脑海中会浮现什么？

Thrilla in Manila?

马尼拉惊险刺激？

Yeah, yeah.

是啊是啊。

1:19:24 Well, I love Mike Tyson a lot too, so.

嗯，我也很喜欢迈克·泰森，所以。

Well, Tyson had big fights, but Mike Tyson never had that signature rival like Muhammad Ali had in Joe Frazier.

好吧，泰森打过很多场比赛，但迈克·泰森从来没有像穆罕默德·阿里在乔·弗雷泽那样的标志性对手。

1:19:27 Yeah, he just didn’t have one.

是的，他只是没有。

I mean, who do we have?

我的意思是，我们有谁？

Evander Holyfield?

伊万德·霍利菲尔德？

Look, Holyfield-Tyson is no Muhammad Ali.

看，霍利菲尔德-泰森不是穆罕默德·阿里。

Take Ali and Frazier, Thrilla in Manila, right?

以阿里和弗雷泽为例，《马尼拉的惊悚》，对吗？

People called it the greatest rivalry, and it still is.

人们称其为最伟大的竞争，现在仍然如此。

In the 20th century, there was nothing that could compare.

在20世纪，没有什么可以与之相比。

In the 21st century, the only thing you could compare to it, purely based on the numbers, is Pacquiao and Mayweather.

在21世纪，纯粹从数字上可以与之相比的只有帕奎奥和梅威瑟。

Yes, there was public interest, but there wasn’t the energy that there was with Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier.

是的，公众有兴趣，但没有穆罕默德·阿里和乔·弗雷泽那样的能量。

Yeah, if I can just pause for a second, I’ll check on Perplexity.

是的，如果我能暂停一下，我会检查一下 Perplexity。

1:20:11 List the biggest boxing fights of all time.

列出有史以来最大的拳击比赛。

It’s Ali and Frazier, like you said.

正如你所说，是阿里和弗雷泽。

Yeah, yeah.

是啊是啊。

The first, the third.

第一，第三。

Well, when he lost, and then the third fight, the Thrilla in Manila.

好吧，当他输了，然后是第三场比赛，马尼拉的 Thrilla 比赛。

And Foreman, I must say Ali versus Foreman.

还有福尔曼，我必须说阿里与福尔曼。

Well, Foreman, that was the year, I think, ’74, right?

嗯，福尔曼，我想那是 74 年，对吗？

The fight was watched by up to a billion people worldwide.

全球多达十亿人观看了这场战斗。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊，是啊。

1:20:34 It was one of those things.

这是其中之一。

Politics got mixed into it too.

政治也混入其中。

Well, it was actually a very big fight.

嗯，这实际上是一场非常激烈的战斗。

Sugar Ray Leonard, Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard versus Thomas Hearns, Hagler versus Hearns.

舒格·雷·伦纳德、杜兰、舒格·雷·伦纳德对阵托马斯·赫恩斯，哈格勒对阵赫恩斯。

Well, Hagler.

嗯，哈格勒。

1:20:47 Hagler and Duran in Montreal.

哈格勒和杜兰在蒙特利尔。

Sugar Ray Leonard and Duran in Montreal when they fought, when he admitted after the fight that he lost the mental game and broke down before the fight.

舒格·雷·伦纳德和杜兰在蒙特利尔打架时，他在比赛结束后承认自己输掉了心理比赛，并在比赛前崩溃了。

But then Sugar Ray beat him later.

但后来糖雷打败了他。

Yeah, he came back and won.

是的，他回来了并且赢了。

Yeah.

是的。

1:21:03 Well, if you look at it out of everything that stands out, I think you can mention Frazier and Muhammad Ali.

好吧，如果你从所有突出的事情中看出来，我想你可以提到弗雷泽和穆罕默德·阿里。

And there was also Joe Louis against German Max Schmeling.

还有乔·路易斯对阵德国人马克斯·施梅林。

Hitler stood behind Schmeling, and Roosevelt stood behind Louis.

希特勒站在施梅林身后，罗斯福站在路易斯身后。

For those who don’t know this story, I just watched it recently.

对于那些不知道这个故事的人，我最近才看了。

It was something incomparable.

这是无与伦比的。

They were so big.

它们太大了。

They were two of the most famous athletes of their time.

他们是当时最著名的两位运动员。

Roosevelt was promoting Joe Louis, you know?

罗斯福正在提拔乔·路易斯，你知道吗？

At that moment for America, it was like something incredible that a white president was promoting a Black world champion.

在那一刻，对于美国来说，一位白人总统正在提拔一位黑人世界冠军，这简直令人难以置信。

And on the other hand, Hitler stood behind Schmeling.

另一方面，希特勒站在施梅林的身后。

It was what?

那是什么？

1:21:48 Nineteen thirty-six, nineteen thirty-eight.

十九点三十六分，十九点三十八分。

They had-

他们有——

They fought twice?

他们打了两次仗？

Twice.

两次。

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊，是啊，是啊。

1:21:54 They fought two times.

他们打斗过两次。

This wasn’t just a good boxing match, just a good fight.

这不仅仅是一场精彩的拳击比赛，更是一场精彩的战斗。

1:21:56 This was politics.

这就是政治。

Those were nations.

这些都是国家。

This was politics.

这就是政治。

1:22:03 This was nations.

这就是国家。

Everything.

一切。

It all came together.

这一切都聚集在一起。

And it’s the same thing with Ali too.

阿里也是如此。

1:22:07 Muhammad Ali with the Vietnam War, all that stuff.

穆罕默德·阿里与越南战争等等。

And his, and even religion is tied into it.

他的，甚至宗教都与此息息相关。

Everything here came together.

这里的一切都聚集在一起。

They simply went beyond sports.

他们只是超越了体育运动。

1:22:17 It was the exact same thing when I fought Conor.

当我与康纳战斗时，情况完全相同。

That fight went beyond our sport.

那场战斗超出了我们的运动范围。

It impacted every sport because athletes of all kinds of different sports, everyone who loves to compete, it didn’t matter if it was football, basketball, soccer, or boxing, everyone was following this.

它影响了每一项运动，因为各种不同运动的运动员，每个热爱竞争的人，无论是足球、篮球、足球还是拳击，每个人都在关注这个。

And honestly, will there be a fight like that?

老实说，会有这样的战斗吗？

Well, it’s hard for me to say, but I think it’ll happen.

好吧，这对我来说很难说，但我认为这会发生。

It’ll happen for sure.

这肯定会发生。

There will always be champions.

总会有冠军。

There will always be rivalries.

总会有竞争。

But when it’ll happen, that’s just a matter of time.

但当它发生时，这只是时间问题。

So it’s not entirely about the athletes.

所以这并不完全与运动员有关。

1:22:59 It’s about everything combined.

这是关于一切的结合。

Yeah.

是的。

1:23:02 It’s everything combined.

这是一切的结合。

The way he talked, what he stirred up, the lines he crossed, touching on family, religion.

他说话的方式，他煽动的事情，他跨越的界限，涉及家庭、宗教。

And then somehow on one side you had Conor, this really interesting champion who knew how to hype himself up, and on the other side, you had this undefeated somebody from, from nowhere, from the mountains.

然后不知何故，一方面你有康纳，这位非常有趣的冠军，知道如何炒作自己，而另一方面，你有一个来自山上、不知从何而来的不败之人。

You know how it is.

你知道是怎么回事。

It all somehow, all of it just kind of happened naturally.

这一切都以某种方式发生，所有这一切都自然而然地发生了。

And it wasn’t staged.

而且这不是上演的。

It was real.

这是真的。

We had a real rivalry, unlike the way a lot of people now just hype up interest in a fight, but people feel that energy.

我们有一场真正的竞争，不像现在很多人只是炒作对战斗的兴趣，但人们感受到了这种能量。

It doesn’t go anywhere.

它哪儿也去不了。

People can tell what’s real and what’s fake.

人们可以分辨什么是真的，什么是假的。

And because of that, we went beyond our own sport.

正因为如此，我们超越了自己的运动范围。

That’s what made this fight so massive.

这就是这场战斗如此大规模的原因。

Well, when you look into your heart back then and now, did you have anger?

那么，当你审视你的内心，当时和现在，你有愤怒吗？

1:23:49 Did you have hatred for him?

你对他有仇恨吗？

Back then and even now, I’d still keep a cool head.

无论是当时还是现在，我都保持着冷静的头脑。

1:23:57 Nothing has changed.

一切都没有改变。

When you let your emotions take over, when they’re off the charts and you completely lose control, that’s a very bad place to be.

当你让你的情绪占据主导地位，当它们失控并且你完全失去控制时，那就是一个非常糟糕的地方。

So you’ll tire out faster.

所以你会更快疲劳。

You’ll fall.

你会跌倒的。

You’ll fall for any kind of bait and so on.

你会落入任何种类的诱饵等等。

I just knew that I needed to stay calm, composed, to stick to the plan no matter what happened, and not go beyond my emotional limits.

我只知道我需要保持冷静、沉着，无论发生什么都要坚持计划，不要超出我的情绪极限。

This is a very, very dangerous moment when you give in to your emotions.

当你屈服于自己的情绪时，这是一个非常非常危险的时刻。

You have to control them.

你必须控制它们。

Every single detail, every little thing has to be perfectly in place.

每一个细节、每一件小事都必须完美到位。

The second you let it all slip, everything becomes a total mess.

一旦你让这一切溜走，一切都会变得一团糟。

So once the fight was finally done, I just let all my emotions out.

所以当战斗结束后，我就把所有的情绪都发泄出来了。

1:25:02 I had to step right in and prove it, and punish him, and show them I’m better, that I’m better than him, and put a final end to this whole bitter rivalry.

我必须立即介入并证明这一点，并惩罚他，并向他们展示我更好，我比他更好，并最终结束这整个激烈的竞争。

When all of that was over-

当这一切都结束了——

Your emotions came out?

你的情绪流露出来了吗？

…

……

1:25:14 that’s when my emotions just went over the edge.

就在那时我的情绪达到了极限。

But until the fight was completely finished, starting from training, you know, at the press conferences, at the weigh-ins, everywhere, in front of the media, everywhere, I kept myself completely under control, and I was very good at it.

但是直到比赛完全结束，从训练开始，你知道，在新闻发布会上，在称重时，在任何地方，在媒体面前，在任何地方，我都完全控制住了自己，而且我非常擅长。

Honestly, looking back it’s been almost eight years now.

说实话，现在回想起来已经快八年了。

Looking back, well, I’m a little surprised.

回想起来，嗯，我有点惊讶。

At that point, I was a very emotional guy, too.

那时，我也是一个非常情绪化的人。

Over these eight years a lot has happened in my life, but I’m surprised that I kept it together.

在这八年里，我的生活发生了很多事情，但令我惊讶的是我竟然把这些都保留了下来。

And well, you know, it wasn’t easy for me to keep myself within my limits, to keep myself under control like that.

嗯，你知道，对我来说，让自己保持在自己的极限之内、让自己处于这样的控制之下并不容易。

But here, again, I’ll come back to what I said, I was very lucky.

但在这里，我再次回到我所说的，我很幸运。

1:26:03 My father called me at that time I was here two months before the fight.

比赛前两个月，我父亲打电话给我。

His advice helped me out so much because for me it was not just that it mattered, it was actually the most important thing for me back then just to know my father’s reaction, how he was taking everything that was happening, because there was just so much media coverage, so I knew my father was watching.

他的建议对我帮助很大，因为对我来说，这不仅仅是重要的，实际上对我来说最重要的是了解我父亲的反应，他如何看待正在发生的一切，因为媒体报道太多，所以我知道我父亲正在观看。

It was important for me to know his take.

了解他的看法对我来说很重要。

I’d call and ask, and my father would even tell me things I hadn’t even asked him about.

我会打电话询问，父亲甚至会告诉我一些我没有问过他的事情。

He’d bring it up on his own.

他会自己提出来。

Because you know the way it is with us, between me and my father, in our traditions, in our part of the world, in our family for generations, in our village, there’s just always this distance with your father.

因为你知道我们之间的情况，在我和我父亲之间，在我们的传统中，在我们这个世界的一部分，在我们世世代代的家庭中，在我们的村庄里，与你父亲之间总是存在这种距离。

1:26:56 Like, when you walk in, there are just so many things you can’t let yourself do in front of your father.

就像，当你走进去时，有很多事情你不能让自己在父亲面前做。

You have to be like, sort of like a soldier in front of a general, right?

你必须像，有点像将军面前的士兵，对吧？

If you can even make that comparison.

如果您甚至可以进行比较。

If a soldier stands at attention like that, then with us it’s even stricter.

如果一个士兵都这样立正，那么对我们来说就更严格了。

Like even, just to give an example here.

甚至，这里只是举个例子。

For instance, imagine you’re a father sitting there, right?

例如，想象一下你是一位父亲坐在那里，对吧？

And your two-year-old kid walks up to you and wants to play with you.

你两岁的孩子走到你身边，想和你一起玩。

You can’t even, like, do that baby talk thing with your own kid.

你甚至不能和自己的孩子一起说儿语。

You don’t have that kind of friendship.

你没有这样的友谊。

You know it’s a friendship, but-

你知道这是友谊，但是——

It’s different, yes.

这是不同的，是的。

There’s a certain distance that you must keep around your father.

你必须与父亲保持一定的距离。

1:27:37 You always have to be, like, completely buttoned up.

你总是必须完全扣紧扣子。

1:27:45 You have to stand like a soldier in front of your father.

你必须像一名士兵一样站在你父亲面前。

You don’t let your emotions take over.

你不要让你的情绪占据主导地位。

At that point, just to know what my father thought, who was, like, all the way across the ocean, who couldn’t just fly out and be there to support his son and just be there by my side.

那时，只是想知道我父亲的想法，他就像远渡重洋一样，他不能飞出去支持他的儿子，也不能只是在我身边。

But for me, since he didn’t have a visa, I just had to know exactly what he thought.

但对我来说，由于他没有签证，我只需要确切地知道他的想法即可。

I didn’t care what anyone else thought.

我不在乎别人怎么想。

I didn’t care about the opinions of, like, millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions watching this fight.

我不在乎数百万、数千万、数亿观看这场比赛的人的看法。

I only ever cared about one person and his take, what he thought and what he’d say to me.

我只关心一个人和他的看法、他的想法以及他会对我说的话。

But I couldn’t call him and say, “Father, what do you think about this?” Well, we never had that.

但我不能打电话给他说：“父亲，你对此有何看法？”嗯，我们从来没有这样过。

Well, you had to wait.

好吧，你必须等待。

I would just call and wait to hear what he’d say.

我只是打电话，等着听他说什么。

1:28:37 And my father, he knew exactly where to draw the line because he was in the exact same position with his own father since his own father was still around.

而我的父亲，他清楚地知道该在哪里划清界限，因为他和自己的父亲处于完全相同的位置，因为他自己的父亲还在身边。

And then he had a son, too, right?

然后他也有一个儿子，对吧？

And he understood me, how I felt about him, since his relationship with his own father was the same way.

他理解我，理解我对他的感受，因为他和他父亲的关系也是如此。

And in that sense, back then, my father really kept me grounded mentally.

从这个意义上说，当时我的父亲确实让我在精神上脚踏实地。

He even told me, he even told me something once.

他甚至告诉过我，他甚至曾经告诉过我一些事情。

Do you know how diamonds are, like, actually made?

您知道钻石实际上是如何制造的吗？

Under great pressure.

承受着巨大的压力。

1:29:14 He says, “You’re under great pressure, and you have a choice.

他说：“你压力很大，但你有选择。

You can break down and give up, or you can get through it all properly, clearly, with dignity.

你可以崩溃、放弃，也可以正确、清晰、有尊严地度过这一切。

Go in, prepare right, make weight, recover, go in, win, and settle it once and for all.” And those exact kinds of moments, they really, they deeply impacted me.

进去，做好准备，增重，恢复，进去，获胜，一劳永逸地解决问题。”那些确切的时刻，它们确实深深地影响了我。

So because of those words, you could cut everything off?

就因为这句话，就可以断绝一切了？

1:29:40 Focus.

重点。

Well-

嗯-

Mentally.

精神上。

Mentally.

精神上。

1:29:47 Like, if a million people showed up right there and told me right outside where I was staying, at the hotel, right?

就像，如果有一百万人出现在那里并告诉我就在我住的酒店外面，对吗？

Like, if a million people gathered right under my window and said, “Hey, we’ve got your back.” And honestly, just one call from my father, it wouldn’t even compare, because that one call from my father, that one piece of advice, his support, his voice, it charged me up way more than absolutely everything else combined.

就像，如果一百万人聚集在我的窗下说：“嘿，我们支持你。”老实说，只是我父亲的一个电话，根本无法相比，因为我父亲的一通电话，一条建议，他的支持，他的声音，它给我带来的动力远远超过其他所有事情的总和。

But I must say, José Aldo, who is one of the greatest fighters of all time, and still Conor was arguably able to psychologically break him.

但我必须说，何塞·阿尔多是有史以来最伟大的拳击手之一，而康纳仍然可以在心理上击败他。

1:30:17 But with you, it seems like Conor was not able to mentally affect you.

但对于你来说，康纳似乎无法对你产生精神影响。

Did he manage to get into your head even a little?

他有没有成功地进入你的脑海，哪怕只是一点点？

No, not at all.

不，一点也不。

1:30:37 I had a clear understanding that physically and mentally I was just way stronger than him.

我清楚地认识到，我的身体和精神都比他强得多。

I didn’t doubt myself for even 1%.

我连百分之一的怀疑都没有。

Well, people, they can say whatever they want.

好吧，人们，他们想说什么就说什么。

He’s got a massive fan base too.

他也拥有庞大的粉丝群。

Maybe they won’t agree with that.

也许他们不会同意这一点。

But the Almighty gave me this unshakable confidence that is just really hard for me to even put into words.

但全能的上帝给了我这种不可动摇的信心，这对我来说真的很难用语言来表达。

And I just deeply believe that I was better than him and that I was stronger than him, and that in this matchup, well, I was supposed to win.

我深深地相信我比他更好，我比他更强，在这场比赛中，我应该赢。

I just had this rock solid faith in myself.

我对自己有坚如磐石的信心。

Up until that moment, is it fair to say that this was your toughest fight?

在那一刻之前，可以说这是你最艰难的一场战斗吗？

Up until that moment?

直到那一刻？

Correct.

正确的。

One hundred percent.

百分之一百。

1:31:34 Because fighting’s all psychology, you know?

因为打架都是心理作用，你知道吗？

It’s a mental game.

这是一场智力游戏。

Mentally speaking, that was my toughest fight.

从精神上来说，那是我最艰难的一场战斗。

At that point, yeah.

那时，是的。

But a tougher fight came later.

但更艰苦的战斗随后到来。

With Gaethje?

和盖特杰一起？

With Gaethje.

和盖特杰一起。

There were a lot of factors that made it so tough.

有很多因素导致事情变得如此艰难。

Yes.

是的。

So can you explain?

那你能解释一下吗？

1:31:55 You said somewhere that actually, unfortunately, or at least from my perspective, unfortunately, we never got to see your absolute limit.

你在某个地方说过，实际上，不幸的是，或者至少从我的角度来看，不幸的是，我们从未看到你的绝对极限。

Were you, uh-

你是吗，呃-

Not in fights, no.

不是在打架，不是。

1:32:08 You’ve never seen my limit in fights.

你从来没有见过我在战斗中的极限。

But you said that Gaethje was the closest to it ’cause of the whole process.

但你说盖特杰在整个过程中是最接近它的。

1:32:12 Can you explain why it was a tough fight, your last one?

你能解释一下为什么这是一场艰苦的战斗吗？

First and foremost, it was because I had lost my father.

首先，也是最重要的，是因为我失去了父亲。

1:32:22 It was hard to pull myself together.

我很难振作起来。

Everything piled up at once.

所有的东西一下子就堆积起来了。

My father was gone.

我父亲走了。

And training without my father, without the person I was doing all of this for, the person I wanted to become champion for, first and foremost, to prove to him that I could become the best.

在没有我父亲的情况下训练，没有我为之做这一切的人，我想成为冠军的人，首先也是最重要的是，向他证明我可以成为最好的。

And then the training camp itself, physically I was not in the best shape.

然后是训练营本身，我的身体状况并不处于最佳状态。

I had injury after injury after injury.

我受伤了又受伤了。

But mentally speaking, I stayed completely sharp.

但从精神上来说，我仍然非常敏锐。

Well, this is when you got injuries, your mental game can slip a little, or things at home are going bad.

嗯，这是当你受伤了，你的心理状态可能会有些下滑，或者家里的情况变得糟糕的时候。

All of that impacts a person.

所有这些都会影响一个人。

One, two, three, four.

一、二、三、四。

All these things affect you.

所有这些事情都会影响你。

You become, let’s say not sharp.

可以说，你变得不敏锐了。

You lose your fire.

你失去了你的火。

1:33:26 Your fire leaves you, your focus leaves you, your head is somewhere else.

你的火离开了你，你的注意力离开了你，你的头在别处。

Even though you are physically there, mentally you are somewhere else.

尽管你的身体在那里，但精神上你却在别的地方。

But I always stayed there.

但我一直留在那里。

I knew it.

我就知道。

Nobody had any idea that was going to be my last fight.

没有人知道这将是我的最后一场战斗。

No one knew about the talk I had with my mother.

没有人知道我和母亲的谈话。

But you knew and you were sure?

但你知道并且你确定吗？

Well, I knew for myself.

嗯，我自己知道。

1:33:46 This is my last fight.

这是我最后一次战斗。

I was never going to step into the cage again.

我再也不敢踏进笼子了。

I knew it, and I had to finish it right then and there because putting myself through all of that yet again, it would have just been too hard on me if I got injured and the fight fell through.

我知道这一点，我必须当场完成比赛，因为让自己再次经历这一切，如果我受伤并且比赛失败，那对我来说就太难了。

And putting my mother through all that stress again.

让我的母亲再次承受所有的压力。

I knew that all the anxiety I go through for three months leading up to a fight, my mother goes through it too.

我知道我在战斗前三个月所经历的所有焦虑，我的母亲也经历过。

I understood all of that.

我明白这一切。

I wanted to put an end to it because we’d already had that talk.

我想结束这件事，因为我们已经谈过了。

We already had an agreement.

我们已经达成协议了。

All of that combined, I mean, mentally it just– I was, you know, I was right on the edge.

所有这些加在一起，我的意思是，在精神上——我，你知道，我正处于边缘。

Like, it was a fine line and I really was on the edge.

就像，这是一条微妙的界限，我真的处于边缘。

And I heard or maybe read somewhere that you said you were already starting to miss it while the fight was still going on.

我在某处听到或读到，你说当战斗仍在进行时你已经开始怀念它了。

Yeah, inside the octagon.

是的，在八边形里面。

1:34:46 I knew it would never happen again.

我知道这种事永远不会再发生了。

I stepped in there and I just took it all in.

我走进那里，我就接受了这一切。

I was fighting and just every single moment, every moment, every single move, I felt it deep down.

我在战斗，每一个瞬间、每一个瞬间、每一个动作，我内心深处都能感受到。

And in my head, I already knew this was the final run.

在我的脑海里，我已经知道这是最后一轮了。

Everything I’d been doing my entire life, it all came down to this.

我一生所做的一切，都归结为这一点。

That competitive rush, I’ll never feel that anywhere else.

那种竞争的冲动，我在其他地方永远感受不到。

I knew deep down this was my last fight.

我内心深处知道这是我最后一次战斗。

What kind of feelings were those?

那是一种什么样的感受呢？

I’ve never felt anything like that again.

我再也没有过这样的感觉。

1:35:20 Those feelings could only be experienced right there on that exact day, that very evening, with that opponent inside that cage.

那种感觉只能在那天、那天晚上，当那个对手在笼子里的时候，才能体验到。

I’ve never had them before that night and never had them since.

那天晚上之前我从来没有吃过它们，从那以后我也没有吃过它们。

And I don’t think I’ll ever be able to feel that way again.

我想我再也不会有那种感觉了。

I think Buvaisar said that these feelings, standing on the podium, becoming an Olympic champion, you only feel them in that moment when they announce you.

我想布瓦伊萨尔说过，站在领奖台上、成为奥运会冠军的感觉，只有在他们宣布你的那一刻你才会感受到。

You step onto the podium.

你走上讲台。

That’s it.

就是这样。

They announced you.

他们宣布了你。

You won.

你赢了。

You leave.

你离开。

That’s it.

就是这样。

You only feel them there.

你只能感觉到它们在那里。

You don’t feel them anywhere else.

你在其他地方感受不到它们。

And athletes live for those feelings.

运动员就是为了这些感觉而活的。

They train their whole lives for them.

他们为他们训练一生。

Do you ever think about that?

你有想过吗？

1:36:01 That in our lives, if we’re lucky, we only get maybe one or two moments like that at that absolute peak.

在我们的生活中，如果幸运的话，我们可能只会遇到一两个这样的绝对巅峰时刻。

Yes.

是的。

1:36:10 Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Very rarely.

很少。

It’s so rare.

这是非常罕见的。

What is happiness really?

真正的幸福是什么？

The way I see it is when you experience certain feelings for a very short time.

我的看法是，当你在很短的时间内体验到某种感觉时。

You can’t be constantly happy.

你不可能一直快乐。

Like you achieve something and then you’re happy for years.

就像你取得了一些成就，然后你会快乐很多年。

It just doesn’t work that way.

但事实并非如此。

The Almighty didn’t build us that way.

全能者并没有这样建造我们。

You get there even when you become a champion and you fully feel that moment, you win.

即使当你成为冠军时，你也能到达那里，并且你完全感觉到那一刻，你赢了。

And then you wake up the next morning and that’s it.

然后你第二天早上醒来就这样了。

Is that all I worked for?

这就是我工作的全部吗？

There’s nothing more like that.

没有什么比这更好的了。

You know?

你知道？

Like, can I have seconds?

比如，我可以再等一下吗？

You can’t have seconds.

你不能有秒。

It’s like in our cafeteria.

就像在我们的自助餐厅一样。

Can I have seconds?

我可以秒吗？

So well, you become champion, you win, then you wake up the next day.

好吧，你成为了冠军，你赢了，然后你第二天醒来。

That’s it.

就是这样。

Your daily routine continues.

你的日常生活仍在继续。

It doesn’t end.

它没有结束。

1:37:04 You’ve already got different things going on, different problems, other tasks now, and you’re like, “It all went by so fast.” Then you wake up the next day, pack your bags, head to the airport, fly out, land back home, everyone’s celebrating.

你现在已经有不同的事情发生，不同的问题，其他任务，你会想，“这一切都过得太快了。”然后你第二天醒来，收拾行李，前往机场，飞出去，降落回家，每个人都在庆祝。

And just like that, the next day everyone’s gone.

就这样，第二天所有人都走了。

That’s it.

就是这样。

Everyone lives their own life.

每个人都过着自己的生活。

And well…

好吧……

But later on, there are moments, well, you know, when you still feel the impact of that success, let’s say.

但后来，有些时刻，嗯，你知道，当你仍然感受到成功的影响时，比方说。

Like let’s say public recognition, for example, people’s recognition and recognition is legacy.

比如说公众的认可，人们的认可和认可就是遗产。

A lot of people get it twisted when we start talking about legacy.

当我们开始谈论遗产时，很多人都会感到扭曲。

What even is a legacy?

遗产到底是什么？

What does legacy mean, right?

遗产是什么意思，对吗？

For me personally, it is public recognition.

对我个人来说，这是公众的认可。

1:37:56 Like when people come up to you, like parents come up with their kid and they say, “You know, you inspire our son to get into sports.

就像当人们来找你时，就像父母来找他们的孩子一样，他们说：“你知道，你激励我们的儿子参加体育运动。

You’re a real role model for him.” And in that exact moment, it’s like you just– you start to realize that none of this was in vain.

你是他真正的榜样。”就在那一刻，就像你开始意识到这一切都没有白费。

But here’s the thing.

但事情是这样的。

Does everyone approach every champion like that?

每个人都是这样对待每个冠军的吗？

Every successful person?

每个成功人士？

Do people even come up to them at all?

人们真的会接近他们吗？

That’s the question.

这就是问题所在。

There are people who became champions.

有人成为冠军。

There are people who rose to the top of their field, but they just don’t inspire anyone.

有些人达到了各自领域的顶峰，但他们只是没有激励任何人。

1:38:33 And well, people look at you like, “Yeah, you were a champion, you know, but nobody wants to be like you.” There are so many people like that who achieve success, but they, mm, they don’t inspire the younger generation because the youth, they look at you and they just don’t see you as a good person.

好吧，人们看着你就像是，“是的，你是冠军，你知道，但没有人想像你一样。”有很多这样的人取得了成功，但是他们，嗯，他们没有激励年轻一代，因为年轻人，他们看你，他们只是不认为你是一个好人。

And looking at it that way, sports, it’s such a double-edged sword.

从这个角度来看，体育运动是一把双刃剑。

They lost themselves in it when they became champions.

当他们成为冠军时，他们迷失了自己。

1:39:06 Or maybe they never truly were.

或者也许他们从来都不是真正的。

1:39:12 If we can, I want to talk about MMA and football in that same context.

如果可以的话，我想在同样的背景下谈论 MMA 和足球。

Let’s start with MMA.

让我们从综合格斗开始。

Who do you think are the greatest fighters of all time?

您认为谁是有史以来最伟大的战士？

You said you have a few favorites.

你说你有几个最喜欢的。

Shogun, Georges St-Pierre, and Fedor Emelianenko.

幕府将军乔治·圣皮埃尔和费多尔·艾米连科。

Let’s talk about those fighters and maybe others who interest you.

让我们谈谈那些战士，也许还有其他你感兴趣的人。

They all had different distinct styles.

他们都有不同的独特风格。

So tell me why Shogun.

那么请告诉我为什么幕府将军。

You’ve always said that he was important to you as a fighter, and naturally he had legendary moments in Pride in two thousand and five.

你总是说他作为一名战士对你很重要，自然他在2005年的骄傲中也有过传奇时刻。

His soccer kick.

他的足球踢。

Yes, that’s right.

是的，没错。

Well, Shogun Rua, he when I was fifteen, sixteen years old, he was the Pride champion.

嗯，Shogun Rua，他在我十五、十六岁时，是骄傲冠军。

1:39:51 At that time, for me, it was the best organization in the world.

那时，对我来说，这是世界上最好的组织。

The best fighters in the world competed there.

世界上最好的拳击手在那里比赛。

Fedor, Cro Cop, Shogun, Wanderlei Silva, Anderson Silva.

费多尔、克罗普、幕府将军、万德雷·席尔瓦、安德森·席尔瓦。

Man, they had everybody.

伙计，他们拥有所有人。

Overeem, Dan Henderson, the Nogueira brothers, the Emelianenko brothers.

奥沃瑞姆、丹·亨德森、诺盖拉兄弟、埃梅利安科兄弟。

They were the best at that time for me and honestly for MMA as a whole.

他们当时对我来说是最好的，说实话对于整个综合格斗来说也是最好的。

And right there in second place, in my opinion, shining right behind Fedor was Shogun.

在我看来，排在第二位的是幕府将军（Shogun）。

And the way he fights, no matter how they took him down, he’d get right back up.

从他的战斗方式来看，无论他们如何击倒他，他都会立即站起来。

They couldn’t do a thing to him.

他们对他无能为力。

Yeah, his wrestling was lacking, but his striking, Thai clinch, punches, kicks, knees.

是的，他的摔跤技术有所欠缺，但他的泰式扭打、拳击、踢腿、膝盖等动作却十分引人注目。

When he landed those soccer kicks, well, he really appealed to me as a fighter.

当他踢出那些足球时，他真的很吸引我作为一名战士。

1:40:46 Very calm, careful, very emotionally restrained, and his fight style.

很冷静，很细心，情绪很内敛，还有他的战斗风格。

His style was actually at a very high level.

他的风格实际上已经达到了很高的水平。

The way he fought, no other fighter ever did.

他的战斗方式是其他战士从未做到过的。

At that time, he really impressed me.

那个时候，他给我的印象真的很深刻。

Then he crossed over to the UFC and became the UFC champion.

随后他跨入UFC并成为UFC冠军。

And UFC fights and the Pride fights at that time, I didn’t have a computer, internet, none of that.

那时的 UFC 比赛和 Pride 比赛，我没有电脑，没有互联网，这些都没有。

I remember there was this video rental place.

我记得有一个录像带出租的地方。

We’d grab tapes and watch all these fights with my father.

我们会拿起录像带，观看我和父亲的所有这些打斗。

Mauricio Shogun Rua to me was like the gold standard of a fighter back then.

Mauricio Shogun Rua 对我来说就像当时战士的黄金标准。

I’d say right alongside Fedor and Georges St-Pierre.

我想说的是费多尔和乔治·圣皮埃尔。

And by the way, when you watched the fights with your father, did you watch them for fun or analyze them too?

顺便问一下，当你和你父亲一起看打架的时候，你是为了好玩而看还是为了分析？

Mostly we analyzed them.

我们主要分析了它们。

1:41:47 My father always loved to analyze fights.

我父亲总是喜欢分析战斗。

We’d sit like this and he’d say this, this, chokes, striking, wrestling.

我们就这样坐着，他会说这个、这个、窒息、攻击、摔跤。

We were constantly analyzing.

我们不断地分析。

There was a fight in two thousand and six or two thousand and seven.

2006年或2007年有过一场战斗。

I don’t even remember the exact year.

我什至不记得确切的年份。

Approximately around that time when Georges St-Pierre fought Sean Sherk.

大约在那个时候，乔治·圣皮埃尔与肖恩·谢克进行了战斗。

We even re-watched that fight a couple of times.

我们甚至重新看了几次那场战斗。

Then Georges St-Pierre fought B.J.

然后乔治·圣皮埃尔 (Georges St-Pierre) 与 B.J.

Penn, the second fight, I think, after the fourth round when there was a stoppage.

佩恩，第二场比赛，我想是在第四轮比赛暂停之后。

Then, well, there were many, many fights and my father actually admired the fighting style, the fighting style of Georges St-Pierre.

然后，嗯，发生了很多很多的战斗，我父亲实际上很欣赏乔治·圣皮埃尔的战斗风格。

He really impressed us.

他给我们留下了深刻的印象。

And my father, my father always emphasized his timing of takedowns after striking, how he closed the distance.

我的父亲，我的父亲总是强调他击球后击倒的时机，以及他如何拉近距离。

1:42:45 And honestly, my whole, you know, like teenage conscious years growing up, like my formative years transitioning into an adult, it was all tied to Pride in its prime.

老实说，我的整个，你知道，就像青少年有意识的成长岁月，就像我的成长岁月过渡到成年人一样，这一切都与巅峰时期的骄傲联系在一起。

And after the UFC bought Pride and those fighters crossed over, that whole boom in 2006, ‘7, ‘8 and ‘9, the rise of the UFC, I remember that era so vividly.

在UFC收购了Pride之后，那些拳手跨越了，2006年的整个繁荣期，‘7’、‘8’和‘9，UFC的崛起，我对那个时代记忆犹新。

My father and I re-watched so many of those UFC fights.

我和父亲重新观看了很多 UFC 比赛。

Well, I have to ask about Fedor.

好吧，我得问一下费多尔的事。

1:43:19 What can you say about him?

你能对他说些什么？

He had some legendary fights.

他有过一些传奇的战斗。

He beat Cro Cop, Big Nog, Mark Coleman.

他击败了 Cro Cop、Big Nog、Mark Coleman。

Yeah, and Kevin Randleman.

是的，还有凯文兰德曼。

1:43:28 And then he had those legendary fights with the Japanese fighters who were big stars over there.

然后他与那里的日本拳手进行了那些传奇的战斗。

Man, I loved it.

伙计，我喜欢它。

Honestly, he inspired me just by the fact that he was from Russia and he was a Sambo fighter.

老实说，他来自俄罗斯，而且是一名桑博战士，这一事实激励了我。

He was closer to our school of training, Sambo, combat Sambo.

他离我们学校训练的比较近，桑博，格斗桑博。

And there was this moment back in 2004, the Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship.

2004 年，达吉斯坦桑搏搏击锦标赛上有这样一个时刻。

Can you imagine?

你能想象吗？

2004, the Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship, and Fedor showed up.

2004年，达吉斯坦桑博锦标赛，费多尔登场。

He showed up.

他出现了。

He came.

他来了。

To compete in the Dagestan Open Combat Sambo Championship while being the reigning Pride champion.

参加达吉斯坦桑博公开赛，同时成为骄傲卫冕冠军。

1:44:08 I was 15 years old at the time.

当时我15岁。

I was right there in the venue.

我当时就在会场里。

My father actually invited him.

我父亲确实邀请了他。

He was sending out invitations to different schools back then.

当时他正在向不同的学校发出邀请。

It was Stary Oskol where he used to train.

他曾经在斯塔里·奥斯科尔（Stary Oskol）训练。

Fedor’s coaches were sent an invitation.

费多尔的教练收到了邀请。

He came with his brother, Alexander.

他和他的兄弟亚历山大一起来。

They both made it to the finals back then.

当时他们都进入了决赛。

I just remember $5,000, $3,000, $1,000, first, second, third place.

我只记得5000美元、3000美元、1000美元，第一名、第二名、第三名。

At heavyweight, they gave a car.

在重量级比赛中，他们给出了一辆汽车。

When the two brothers arrived, they beat everyone to get to the finals.

当两兄弟到达时，他们击败了所有人进入了决赛。

They didn’t fight each other.

他们没有互相争斗。

One of them took first place.

其中一个获得了第一名。

That was Fedor.

那是费多尔。

Alexander took second place.

亚历山大获得第二名。

I remember back then when he was warming up, I was standing next to him while he warmed up.

我记得当时他热身的时候，我就站在他旁边热身。

1:45:01 It was this building, you know, a venue that fits maybe 1,500 people, and over there was this partition, like a wall, and everyone was warming up behind that wall.

就是这座建筑，你知道，一个大概能容纳 1,500 人的场地，那边有一个隔断，就像一堵墙，每个人都在那堵墙后面热身。

At that time, well, practically very few people even knew who Fedor was, but I knew Fedor.

当时，几乎很少有人知道费多尔是谁，但我认识费多尔。

I knew who he was, that he was the Pride champion.

我知道他是谁，他是骄傲冠军。

At that time, he beat Nogueira, beat Mark Coleman, beat Randleman.

当时，他击败了诺盖拉，击败了马克·科尔曼，击败了兰德尔曼。

This was before his championship fight against Cro Cop.

这是在他与 Cro Cop 的冠军争夺战之前。

I would come over and just sit there watching how he warmed up, what he did.

我会过来坐在那里看他如何热身，他做了什么。

I just remember very well, I don’t know, maybe Fedor will see this podcast.

我只是记得很清楚，我不知道，也许费多尔会看到这个播客。

He had a thermos.

他有一个保温瓶。

He had a thermos, and he was just drinking tea.

他有一个保温瓶，他正在喝茶。

And I remember he fought Ibragim Magomedov.

我记得他与易卜拉欣·马戈梅多夫作战。

He was also a legendary fighter of ours, a heavyweight who fought in Pride, too.

他也是我们的传奇拳手，也是参加过骄傲赛的重量级拳手。

He fought against him.

他与他作战。

1:45:50 It was either his first or second fight, and he was warming up incredibly well.

这是他的第一次或第二次比赛，而且他热身得非常好。

I remember how he was warming up his nose and his ears.

我记得他是如何暖和他的鼻子和耳朵的。

I watched him, and it was unusual for me at that time.

我看着他，这对当时的我来说很不寻常。

I never warmed up my nose and ears.

我从来没有加热过我的鼻子和耳朵。

I just remember how Fedor was really working on his nose, his ears, his whole face.

我只记得费多尔是如何对他的鼻子、耳朵和整张脸进行修整的。

And he went, fought, came back.

他走了，战斗了，然后又回来了。

This was in Makhachkala 2004.

这是2004年的马哈奇卡拉。

It’s the same as a UFC champion now coming and fighting at the Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship.

这就像UFC冠军现在来到达吉斯坦桑博锦标赛一样。

Can you imagine that?

你能想象吗？

Back then, it was the best heavyweight organization in the world.

当时，它是世界上最好的重量级组织。

He comes there and fights.

他来到那里并战斗。

So he finished a fight, goes back, and he had this big thermos with him.

于是他打完一场仗就回去了，还带着这个大保温瓶。

His team was sitting separately over there.

他的团队分别坐在那边。

He was drinking tea.

他正在喝茶。

1:46:39 He just fought, walked back, poured some tea, and drank it.

他只是打了一架，走回去，倒了杯茶，喝了下去。

He had something to snack on with it, maybe honey or something.

他吃点东西，也许是蜂蜜什么的。

I just don’t remember.

我只是不记得了。

And I was, “Wow, Fedor is right here.” For me, that was just such a, you know, great source of motivation back then.

我当时就想，“哇，费多就在这里。”对我来说，这就是当时的巨大动力源泉。

It’s really hard to put those emotions into words.

真的很难用语言来表达这些情感。

By the way, maybe you could ask him about that on the podcast.

顺便说一句，也许你可以在播客上问他这个问题。

About the thermos?

关于保温瓶？

No, no.

不，不。

1:47:03 About the tea.

关于茶。

What was in it?

里面是什么？

Thyme?

百里香？

Mint?

薄荷？

What did he put in there?

他在里面放了什么？

Well, I would love to talk to him on this podcast, but I think he rarely does interviews.

嗯，我很想在这个播客上与他交谈，但我认为他很少接受采访。

I think you can reach him.

我想你可以联系到他。

1:47:17 I can help you.

我可以帮你。

Well, if you could put in a good word for me.

好吧，如果你能为我说几句好话就好了。

Yeah, of course.

是的，当然。

1:47:23 I think it would be interesting for people to hear him.

我认为人们听到他的声音会很有趣。

Absolutely.

绝对地。

1:47:27 But psychologically, he’s kind of like you in a way.

但从心理上来说，他在某种程度上有点像你。

You mean calm?

你是说冷静？

Yeah.

是的。

1:47:37 Yes, that calmness.

是的，就是那种平静。

You see the Pride era, those huge fights, those really tough matchups, and still he always stayed calm.

你看到骄傲时代，那些激烈的战斗，那些非常艰难的对决，但他仍然总是保持冷静。

It’s his aura.

这是他的气场。

Yeah?

是的？

I don’t know about others, but for me, that was his aura.

别人我不知道，但对我来说，那就是他的气场。

1:47:52 The fact that he’d come out with such a calm, cool-headed look and knock out giants, strong fighters at that time, right?

事实上，他当时就以如此冷静、冷静的表情出现，击倒了巨人、强大的战士，对吗？

You know, we used to joke about his face, that he kind of looks like a kindergarten teacher, you know?

你知道，我们过去常常拿他的脸开玩笑，说他看起来有点像幼儿园老师，你知道吗？

And then he goes out there and knocks out absolute giants.

然后他就上场并击败了绝对的巨人。

And he was like that.

而他就是这样的。

Both before and after the fight, he never showed much emotion.

无论是比赛前还是比赛后，他都没有表现出太多的情绪。

But I think we’re a little different in that regard.

但我认为我们在这方面有点不同。

I think Fedor, by temperament, is calmer than I am.

我认为费多尔的性格比我冷静。

That’s my impression.

这是我的印象。

But with that cold-blooded calmness of his, I think he got to a lot of people mentally.

但凭借他那种冷血的冷静，我想他在精神上影响了很多人。

It’s like something’s happening inside both of you, like something’s boiling inside.

就好像你们俩内心正在发生什么事情，就像有什么东西在里面沸腾一样。

1:48:44 So when we look at your face-

所以当我们看着你的脸时——

Of course it’s boiling.

当然是沸腾了。

1:48:54 What do you think?

你怎么认为？

You know what?

你知道吗？

It’s one thing when it’s boiling inside and you show it, but there are some who can’t hide their feelings.

当内心沸腾并表现出来时是一回事，但有些人无法隐藏自己的感受。

But it’s a different thing when it’s boiling inside and on the surface you stay cold, cold-blooded, calm, and you can handle all these different emotions that hit you at the same time.

但当你内心沸腾、表面上保持冷酷、冷血、冷静时，情况就不同了，你可以处理同时袭击你的所有这些不同的情绪。

There are a lot of them, and they all hit differently.

它们有很多，而且它们的打击方式都不同。

When you compete, what makes a fighter, an athlete at the highest level so unique is that so many different emotions hit you at the same time.

当你参加比赛时，战士、最高水平的运动员之所以如此独特，是因为许多不同的情绪同时袭来。

Fear, nerves, the fact that people are watching you, the thought that you might perform badly, that you might not show what you’ve trained for, that you might mess it up, that you might, I don’t know, fall.

恐惧、紧张、人们在注视着你的事实、你可能表现不佳、你可能无法展示你所训练的东西、你可能搞砸了、你可能（我不知道）摔倒的想法。

1:49:46 So much enters your head, and you can put each emotion where it belongs.

太多的东西进入你的头脑，你可以把每种情绪放在它所属的地方。

So, you know, if all of that gets inside your head and turns into chaos, you won’t be able to handle it emotionally, but you stay cold-blooded.

所以，你知道，如果所有这些都进入你的脑海并变得混乱，你将无法在情感上处理它，但你会保持冷血。

And you know that if you don’t handle these emotions that are coming at you, if you don’t handle this pressure, then it will be difficult for you to compete because the main competition is against yourself first.

你知道，如果你不处理这些向你袭来的情绪，如果你不处理这种压力，那么你将很难竞争，因为主要的竞争首先是你自己。

You fight yourself, you beat yourself, and only then do you actually start competing with your opponent.

你与自己战斗，击败自己，只有这样你才真正开始与对手竞争。

So I think it happens to everyone, not just him or me.

所以我认为每个人都会遇到这种情况，不仅仅是他或我。

The big difference here is how much you can control it.

这里最大的区别在于你可以控制它的程度。

Fedor himself famously said, “The only person who can defeat me is me.

费多尔本人有句名言：“唯一能打败我的人就是我自己。

1:50:32 The only person who can beat me is me.”

能打败我的人只有我自己。”

He was talking about that fight with yourself, I’m sure.

我确信他正在谈论那场与你自己的争斗。

1:50:40 Because if you lose to yourself, then you’ll lose to your opponent very easily.

因为如果你输给了自己，那么你就很容易输给对手。

There’s an interesting thing I came across.

我遇到了一件有趣的事情。

1:50:48 Adam Saitiev said that high-level athletes often make a mistake, and what they do wrong is that when they feel fear, they tend to ignore it.

亚当·萨蒂耶夫表示，高水平的运动员经常会犯错误，而他们犯的错误是，当他们感到恐惧时，他们往往会忽视它。

He believes that you have to confront that fear and overcome it.

他认为你必须面对这种恐惧并克服它。

Yes.

是的。

1:51:10 Psychologists talk about how to work through those thoughts when they arise.

心理学家谈论如何在这些想法出现时解决它们。

You know, when fear comes up and you feel it, that’s absolutely normal.

你知道，当恐惧出现并且你感觉到时，这绝对是正常的。

It’s what the Almighty put in us.

这就是全能者放在我们身上的东西。

People get scared, people get cold, people feel pain, people get hungry.

人们会感到害怕，人们会感到寒冷，人们会感到疼痛，人们会感到饥饿。

These are things that are inside all of us.

这些是我们所有人内心的东西。

The real question is how you deal with them, how you overcome them within yourself.

真正的问题是你如何处理它们，如何克服自己内心的它们。

100% you can’t ignore it, and you must work through it.

100%你不能忽视它，你必须解决它。

You have to answer the questions, “Why did this happen?

你必须回答以下问题：“为什么会发生这种情况？

Could I do it this way instead?” And this comes only with experience, only with experience.

我可以这样做吗？而这只有经验才能实现，只有经验才能实现。

And the more you compete, you know, the more you train and the more you face it.

你知道，你竞争得越多，你训练得越多，你面对的也就越多。

Some people actually try to avoid that moment.

有些人实际上试图避免那一刻。

But the more you face it, the better and better you’ll become each time.

但你面对它的次数越多，你每次都会变得越来越好。

1:52:14 It’s the same with athletes.

运动员也是如此。

They get nervous.

他们变得紧张。

That’s what we call the jitters, right?

这就是我们所说的紧张，对吧？

At first, whenever someone competes, they get the jitters.

起初，每当有人参加比赛时，他们都会感到紧张。

But when you keep competing over and over again, you gradually learn how to channel those nerves in the right direction.

但当你一遍又一遍地竞争时，你会逐渐学会如何将这些神经引导到正确的方向。

Then it gets easier for you.

然后你就会变得更容易。

And in order to get there, you have to compete.

为了实现这一目标，你必须竞争。

And what is competition?

什么是竞争？

You meet this fear face to face.

你面对面地遇到了这种恐惧。

You don’t avoid it.

你不回避它。

A lot of guys are staying away from competitions.

很多人都远离比赛。

When they’re young, they have this tension, this self-consciousness, this fear, the jitters.

当他们年轻的时候，他们有这种紧张、这种自我意识、这种恐惧、紧张。

They’re nervous.

他们很紧张。

They can’t sleep at night.

他们晚上无法入睡。

You have to go through all of that yourself.

你必须自己经历这一切。

Nobody can do it for you.

没有人能为你做这件事。

A coach can train you.

教练可以训练你。

A coach can teach you.

教练可以教你。

1:53:03 But all he can say is, “Practice, practice, practice.” Then there’s you, alone with your own feelings.

但他只能说：“练习，练习，练习。”然后就是你，独自一人，有自己的感受。

When you lie down, when you wake up, when you walk, when you’re by yourself, when you eat, there are so many moments when a person has to go through all of this on his own.

当你躺下的时候，当你醒来的时候，当你走路的时候，当你一个人的时候，当你吃饭的时候，有很多时刻一个人必须独自经历这一切。

And when you have to go through this over and over again, some people back away.

当你必须一遍又一遍地经历这个过程时，有些人会退缩。

They don’t want to face it.

他们不想面对它。

And what do you need for that?

你需要什么？

Patience.

耐心。

You have to come and endure it and go through all of it, through your skin, through your muscles, through your mind.

你必须来忍受它并经历这一切，通过你的皮肤，通过你的肌肉，通过你的思想。

You must let all of this pass through you and overcome it.

你必须让这一切通过你并克服它。

And each time you’ll get better at it.

每次你都会做得更好。

A good example of that is the third person you mentioned, Georges St-Pierre, who by the way sends his regards.

一个很好的例子就是你提到的第三个人，乔治·圣皮埃尔，顺便向他致意。

1:53:54 I train with him a lot, and he has a very deep respect for you.

我和他一起训练了很多，他非常尊重你。

But he didn’t give me much good advice because when I told him I was going to train with you, he told me…

但他并没有给我太多好的建议，因为当我告诉他我要和你一起训练时，他告诉我……

What did he say?

他说什么？

He texted me, “If you die, you die.” That’s what he said.

他给我发短信说：“如果你死了，你就死了。”他就是这么说的。

Good advice.

好建议。

1:54:17 He’s a wise man.

他是一个聪明人。

Didn’t support me and said, “Say hi.”

没有支持我并说：“打个招呼。”

Tell him I say hi, too.

告诉他我也打个招呼。

As we were talking about, he himself has spoken about this, that he was afraid and always felt fear before every single fight.

正如我们所谈论的，他自己也谈到过这一点，他很害怕，并且在每次战斗之前总是感到恐惧。

1:54:23 That’s interesting.

那很有意思。

One of the greatest fighters-

最伟大的战士之一——

In history, yeah.

历史上，是的。

And even he feels fear.

甚至他也感到恐惧。

He’s not afraid to admit it.

他并不害怕承认这一点。

1:54:41 Everybody has fear.

每个人都有恐惧。

Everybody gets afraid.

每个人都会害怕。

But I don’t know how big that fear was for him.

但我不知道这种恐惧对他来说有多大。

I really don’t know.

我真的不知道。

We never discussed it.

我们从未讨论过它。

But I’ve watched a lot of his interviews, his fights, and his training camps.

但我看过他的很多采访、他的比赛和他的训练营。

The way he analyzed his past fights and all that, the way I see it, he’s a very sensitive person.

从他分析过去打架的方式以及所有这些，在我看来，他是一个非常敏感的人。

There are people like that too.

也有这样的人。

Some guys take all of this very lightly.

有些人对这一切看得很轻。

Like, “Okay, we fight tomorrow.

就像，“好吧，我们明天战斗。

We’ll see who my opponent is and how he shows up, right?” But there are others who find it very difficult to handle psychologically.

我们会看看我的对手是谁以及他会如何表现，对吗？”但也有一些人觉得心理上很难应对。

But the Almighty gave me this kind of calmness.

但全能的上帝给了我这种平静。

Sometimes I’d get to the arena, and they bring you in four hours before the fight.

有时我会到达竞技场，他们会在比赛前四个小时带你来。

They have to weigh you, they have to do doping control, and they have to tape you up.

他们必须给你称重，他们必须进行兴奋剂检查，他们必须把你绑起来。

1:55:44 There are so many athletic commission procedures.

有很多体育委员会的程序。

Every state has different rules, how they bring you into the arena and all that.

每个州都有不同的规则，他们如何带你进入竞技场等等。

Sometimes I’d get there four hours early and think, “What am I supposed to do?” So I make myself a little bed and say, “Please keep it quiet.” I would lie down.

有时我会提前四个小时到达那里，然后想：“我应该做什么？”所以我给自己铺了一张小床，然后说：“请保持安静。”我会躺下。

I could sleep there for an hour, maybe an hour and a half.

我可以在那里睡一个小时，也许一个半小时。

That’s it.

就是这样。

Wake up, warm up, and then I could go out and fight.

醒来，热身，然后我就可以出去战斗了。

And some guys, they don’t sleep for two days before the fight.

有些人在比赛前两天不睡觉。

Believe me, there are fighters who don’t sleep the night before a fight, and it’s very hard on them.

相信我，有些拳手在比赛前一天晚上不睡觉，这对他们来说非常困难。

It’s not really fear.

这并不是真正的恐惧。

It’s hard to describe with just one emotion.

很难仅用一种情感来形容。

It’s too many emotions that come over a person, and they can’t fall asleep.

一个人的情绪太多，无法入睡。

1:56:34 It’s panic, it’s fear, it’s worry, it’s nervousness, it’s the jitters.

这是恐慌，这是恐惧，这是担心，这是紧张，这是紧张。

All of that builds up, and the person just can’t fall asleep.

所有这些都累积起来，人们就无法入睡。

So in that regard, the Almighty gave me a little more calmness than others.

所以在这一点上，全能者给了我比别人多一点的冷静。

I had, you know, such a cool head and calmness before the fights.

你知道，我在打架前头脑冷静。

Now you’re in this new position as a leader, and you’re looking at all these athletes, these young guys who are already at the very top of the world.

现在你作为领导者处于这个新的位置，你正在看着所有这些运动员，这些已经处于世界最顶端的年轻人。

1:56:57 And I think they’re all very different from one another psychologically, physically, and stylistically.

我认为他们在心理、身体和风格上都截然不同。

What can you say as a coach?

作为教练你能说什么？

I know you’re not a coach, but as a leader, how do you figure out what each person needs?

我知道你不是教练，但作为领导者，你如何弄清楚每个人的需求？

Like now we were watching Umar prepare.

就像现在我们正在看着奥马尔准备。

That each person needs something different.

每个人需要不同的东西。

Yes, everyone is different.

是的，每个人都是不同的。

1:57:32 Different styles, different mentalities, different mindsets, different approaches to fight week and to preparation as a whole.

不同的风格，不同的心态，不同的心态，不同的战斗周和整体准备方法。

But you have to adapt to all of it.

但你必须适应这一切。

Here, you can’t just take one approach.

在这里，你不能只采取一种方法。

Let’s say we take my approach and apply it to everyone else, to Usman, Islam, and Umar.

假设我们采用我的方法并将其应用于其他所有人，乌斯曼、伊斯兰和奥马尔。

It doesn’t work like that.

它不是那样工作的。

Everyone needs their own approach.

每个人都需要自己的方法。

I knew them since they were nobody, and I know them now when they are the best.

当他们还默默无闻的时候我就认识他们了，现在当他们最优秀的时候我也认识他们了。

So you have to treat each one differently.

所以你必须以不同的方式对待每一个人。

I’m very lucky to have Javier Mendez.

我很幸运有哈维尔·门德斯。

He’s been by my side since 2012.

从2012年起他就一直在我身边。

And when I became a coach after I finished my career, he was there with me as a coach.

当我结束职业生涯后成为一名教练时，他作为教练和我在一起。

I switched from being a fighter to a coaching role.

我从战士角色转变为教练角色。

My father was no longer with us.

我的父亲不再和我们在一起了。

1:58:30 And together with Javier Mendes, we’ve been guiding them for these last six years.

过去六年来，我们一直与哈维尔·门德斯一起指导他们。

And his experience helps me tremendously because there is no coach, no MMA coach with the kind of results Javier Mendes has.

他的经验对我帮助很大，因为没有一个教练，没有一个综合格斗教练能取得哈维尔·门德斯那样的成绩。

You know?

你知道？

So many champions, double champions, UFC fighters.

那么多冠军、双冠军、UFC 战士。

So many people have trained under him, from Frank Shamrock all the way to Islam Makhachev.

从弗兰克·沙姆洛克（Frank Shamrock）到伊斯兰·马哈乔夫（Islam Makhachev），有很多人在他的指导下接受过训练。

So many fighters have trained under him, which makes things very easy for me because I have Javier Mendes by my side, and he can help me with so many things.

很多拳击手在他手下接受过训练，这对我来说很容易，因为我身边有哈维尔·门德斯，他可以帮助我做很多事情。

What do you think is the secret behind Javier’s genius?

您认为哈维尔天才背后的秘密是什么？

1:59:12 Why is he such a great coach for so many different athletes?

为什么他是这么多不同运动员的出色教练？

It’s the mental side of things.

这是事物的心理方面。

1:59:21 I’m not gonna say he’s one of the best at holding pads or anything like that, but his understanding of MMA itself, his approach to training camp, to the whole preparation process, and the amount of attention he pays to sparring inside the cage.

我并不是说他是握垫或类似动作方面最出色的人之一，而是说他对 MMA 本身的理解、他对训练营的态度、对整个准备过程的态度，以及他对笼内对打的重视程度。

I’m not talking about those sparring sessions with 50 people in the gym and everyone is sparring with each other.

我说的不是那些在健身房里有 50 个人的拳击比赛，每个人都在互相拳击。

For example, when I was preparing for a five-round fight, he would always bring in two or three high-level opponents, constantly rotating in fresh sparring partners.

比如，当我准备五回合比赛时，他总是会引进两三个高水平的对手，不断轮换新的陪练。

And he would watch and analyze.

他会观察和分析。

I don’t remember him ever missing a single sparring session since 2012.

我不记得自 2012 年以来他从未缺席过一场陪练。

2:00:02 Can you imagine?

你能想象吗？

14 years have gone by, and right now we’re in training camp.

14年过去了，现在我们正在训练营。

He’s there for every training session, morning and evening.

每次训练，他都会在场，无论是早上还是晚上。

He’s at every sparring session, watching everyone, coaching them, giving advice, guiding them.

他参加每一次陪练，观察每个人，指导他们，提供建议，指导他们。

He’s incredibly dedicated to what he does.

他非常专注于他所做的事情。

He’s either all in or he steps away completely.

他要么全身心投入，要么彻底离开。

He never shows up and gives only 50%.

他从不露面，只付出了50%。

I remember one situation.

我记得一种情况。

Abubakar was getting ready to fight in WSOF, and I had another student fighting there as well.

阿布巴卡正准备参加 WSOF 战斗，我还有另一名学生也在那里战斗。

Abubakar went through the entire preparation with us, but the other guy didn’t.

阿布巴卡尔和我们一起完成了整个准备工作，但另一个人没有。

When we got there, I told the coach, “Coach, can you work his corner with me too?” He said, “You know, Khabib, I haven’t seen his preparation.

当我们到达那里时，我告诉教练：“教练，你能和我一起做他的角球吗？”他说：“你知道，哈比卜，我还没有看到他的准备工作。

2:00:57 I don’t know what he’s capable of.

我不知道他有什么能力。

He didn’t train under me.

他没有在我手下训练。

But since you’re asking, I’ll do it.

但既然你问了，我就这么做。

But for the future, remember, I don’t really like to corner guys I haven’t prepared.” I didn’t understand him then, but now I do.

但对于未来，请记住，我真的不喜欢把那些我还没有准备好的人逼到角落。”那时我不理解他，但现在我明白了。

This was 2016 or maybe 2017.

那是 2016 年，也可能是 2017 年。

I don’t want to be wrong.

我不想出错。

And now I understand.

现在我明白了。

Now when people ask me, I’m like, “I didn’t prepare you.

现在，当人们问我时，我会说：“我没有让你做好准备。

I don’t know how ready you are.” I’m not ready to go in there and give all my energy to someone who didn’t go through camp with me.

我不知道你准备得怎么样了。”我还没准备好去那里，把我所有的精力都奉献给一个没有和我一起参加过训练营的人。

Now I understand that.

现在我明白了。

At that time, I told the coach, “Can you come out and corner him with me?” He said, “No problem.” We went out there, Abubakar won his fight, and the other guy’s fight ended in a draw.

当时我就跟教练说：“你能出来和我一起围堵他吗？”他说：“没问题。”我们出去了，阿布巴卡尔赢得了他的比赛，而另一个人的比赛以平局结束。

But that’s not really what I’m getting at.

但这并不是我真正想要表达的意思。

2:01:53 I’ve come to the point where if I haven’t trained someone for two, three, or four months, I don’t like to corner them because they didn’t go through a full training camp, and I don’t know how they’ll respond in the third, fourth, or fifth round.

我已经到了这样的地步：如果我已经两三个月或四个月没有训练某人，我不喜欢把他们逼入绝境，因为他们没有经历完整的训练营，而且我不知道他们在第三轮、第四轮或第五轮会如何反应。

I don’t know how he prepared.

我不知道他是如何准备的。

I don’t know how ready he is to go into those deep waters.

我不知道他准备好进入那些深水区了。

That’s why I try not to corner just anyone.

这就是为什么我尽量不把任何人逼入绝境。

I learned that from Javier.

这是我从哈维尔那里学到的。

So you need to know he can go into those deep waters.

所以你需要知道他可以进入那些深水区。

How deep he can go.

他能走多深。

2:02:24 I need to know exactly what he’s capable of.

我需要确切地知道他的能力。

What can you say about one of the greatest fighters and athletes ever, Daniel DC Cormier, who you train with?

对于与您一起训练的有史以来最伟大的拳击手和运动员之一丹尼尔·DC·科米尔 (Daniel DC Cormier)，您有何评价？

2:02:30 You guys joke around all the time, so it’s easy to forget how great he really is.

你们总是开玩笑，所以很容易忘记他到底有多伟大。

What can you say about him as a training partner, as a coach, as a person?

作为训练伙伴、教练、为人，你对他有何评价？

When we talk about DC, we have to go back to 2004, 2008.

当我们谈论DC时，我们必须回到2004年、2008年。

2:02:48 He was a two-time Olympian.

他是两届奥运会选手。

He represented Team USA at the Olympic Games, and that carries a lot of weight in this sport, especially in the 96-kilo division.

他代表美国队参加了奥运会，这在这项运动中举足轻重，尤其是在 96 公斤级比赛中。

And he is a two-time Olympian.

他是两届奥运会选手。

Then he transitioned to MMA, won a few fights on the regional scene, went to Strikeforce, won fights there.

然后他转向 MMA，在地区赛场上赢得了几场比赛，然后去了 Strikeforce，在那里赢得了比赛。

They put him into the Grand Prix.

他们让他参加了大奖赛。

He won the Grand Prix, became heavyweight champion, and then went to the UFC.

他赢得了大奖赛，成为重量级冠军，然后去了UFC。

When he moved to the UFC, he cut down to 205 pounds to make room for Cain Velasquez because they were best friends.

当他转战 UFC 时，他将体重减至 205 磅，为凯恩·维拉斯奎兹 (Cain Velasquez) 腾出空间，因为他们是最好的朋友。

Cain was the heavyweight champion.

凯恩是重量级冠军。

So he moved to 205, and they both became champions, one at light heavyweight and one at heavyweight.

于是他升到了205，两人都成为了冠军，一位是轻重量级的，一位是重量级的。

Later, when Cain lost the title, he moved to heavyweight and won there too.

后来，当凯恩失去了冠军头衔后，他转战重量级并在那里获胜。

2:03:48 He’s one of the most unique athletes who has ever lived.

他是有史以来最独特的运动员之一。

How many athletes do you know who competed at the World Championships, at the Olympic Games in freestyle wrestling, then transitioned to MMA and became Strikeforce champion, UFC light heavyweight champion, and UFC heavyweight champion?

你知道有多少运动员参加过世界锦标赛、奥运会自由式摔跤比赛，然后转型为 MMA，并成为 Strikeforce 冠军、UFC 轻重量级冠军和 UFC 重量级冠军？

And he’s also remembered for his rivalry with one of the greatest, if not the greatest, Jon Jones.

他还因与乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）的竞争而被人们铭记，乔恩·琼斯是最伟大的（如果不是最伟大的）之一。

But by the time he fought Jon Jones, he was no longer at his peak.

但当他与乔恩·​​琼斯战斗时，他已经不再处于巅峰状态了。

I think he was already pushing 40.

我想他已经40岁了。

Even though we have this friendly, joking relationship because he’s such a fun, interesting guy, as an athlete though, he’s truly one of a kind.

尽管我们有这种友好、开玩笑的关系，因为他是一个非常有趣的人，但作为一名运动员，他确实是独一无二的。

As a commentator too, he’s very good with words.

作为解说员，他也非常善于言辞。

Educated, well-mannered, strong.

有教养，有礼貌，坚强。

2:04:45 He has so many great qualities.

他有很多优秀的品质。

Daniel Cormier is one of those people who I think can truly inspire others.

我认为丹尼尔·科米尔是能够真正激励他人的人之一。

So who usually wins when you guys wrestle?

那么你们摔跤的时候通常谁会赢呢？

2:05:02 You or DC?

你还是DC？

Well, he’s got a few years on me.

好吧，他比我晚了几年。

2:05:08 But back in my prime, when I was competing at lightweight, I weighed around 84, 85, maybe 86 kilos.

但在我的巅峰时期，当我参加轻量级比赛时，我的体重约为 84 公斤、85 公斤，也许是 86 公斤。

DC was always around 107, 110.

DC始终在107、110左右。

Those are completely different weight classes.

这些是完全不同的重量级别。

DC was better at wrestling and as an Olympian too, all joking aside.

DC 更擅长摔跤，而且还是一名奥运会选手，开个玩笑。

So you feel-

所以你觉得——

Back then it was really tough, of course, but now it’s different.

当然，那时候真的很艰难，但现在不同了。

2:05:33 Now I can go after him.

现在我可以去追他了。

But I learned so much from Cormier.

但我从科米尔身上学到了很多东西。

Honestly, so much.

老实说，就这么多。

As a person, a wrestler, and a fighter.

作为一个人，一个摔跤手，一个战士。

You know, we spent our best years together at AKA from 2012 to 2020.

你知道，从2012年到2020年，我们在AKA一起度过了最美好的时光。

We’ve shared so many memories and moments together as well.

我们也一起分享了很多回忆和时刻。

I just think it’s a shame that people don’t talk about him as one of the top five, top 10.

我只是觉得人们不谈论他作为前五名、前十名之一，这是一种耻辱。

Well, top 10 for sure.

嗯，肯定是前 10 名。

2:06:04 One of the top 10 greatest, no question.

毫无疑问，十大最伟大的人物之一。

Yeah, I definitely think so.

是的，我绝对这么认为。

It’s a shame, but you see this in football and in other sports too.

这很遗憾，但你在足球和其他运动中也能看到这种情况。

2:06:10 One rivalry can overshadow an entire legacy.

一场竞争可能会掩盖整个遗产。

For DC, it’s Jon Jones.

对于 DC 来说，是乔恩·琼斯。

Well, Jon Jones was the better athlete.

嗯，乔恩·琼斯是更好的运动员。

2:06:18 There’s no doubt about that.

这是毫无疑问的。

But DC was right there with him.

但 DC 就在他身边。

Yes, Jon Jones won, but DC gave him a real fight.

是的，乔恩·琼斯赢了，但 DC 给了他一场真正的战斗。

He was that very person, you know, who actually made Jon Jones train harder.

你知道，他就是那个让乔恩·琼斯更加努力训练的人。

People shouldn’t forget that.

人们不应该忘记这一点。

I’m sure Jon Jones prepared for that fight like it was the hardest fight of his life.

我确信乔恩·琼斯为这场战斗做好了准备，就像这是他一生中最艰难的一场战斗一样。

Well, we’ve talked about different athletes, about Umar, but now let’s talk about Islam Makhachev, one of your closest brothers, who’s at the very top of the world.

好吧，我们已经讨论了不同的运动员，关于奥马尔，但现在让我们谈谈伊斯兰·马哈乔夫，你最亲密的兄弟之一，他处于世界的最顶端。

2:06:49 You’ve known each other.

你们已经认识了。

You’ve trained together for more than 20 years.

你们已经一起训练了 20 多年。

In your opinion, what makes him such a special wrestler and fighter?

在您看来，是什么让他成为如此特殊的摔跤手和战士？

Why has he reached such heights?

他为何能达到如此高度？

Why is he a great fighter?

为什么他是一位伟大的战士？

Well, let’s start with the fact that Islam has been doing this for his whole life, since childhood.

好吧，让我们从伊斯兰从童年起一生都在这样做的事实开始。

2:07:14 And I’ve known him since childhood too.

我也从小就认识他。

We went to the same school, lived in the same neighborhood, trained at the same gym, and he was my father’s student.

我们上同一所学校，住在同一个街区，在同一个体育馆训练，他是我父亲的学生。

And it’s worth mentioning, he was one of my father’s favorite students.

值得一提的是，他是我父亲最喜欢的学生之一。

2:07:36 One of the best students.

最优秀的学生之一。

My father saw in him this potential for greatness in how hard he trained.

我父亲从他的刻苦训练中看到了他的伟大潜力。

That’s what I was talking about at the beginning of the podcast.

这就是我在播客开头所说的内容。

When you go into the dark, uncomfortable room and stay there for a long time, no matter how hard it gets.

当你走进黑暗、不舒服的房间并呆在那里很长时间，无论情况多么困难。

He knew how to make sacrifices.

他知道如何做出牺牲。

He was very disciplined.

他非常遵守纪律。

Nobody reaches this level by accident.

没有人能偶然达到这个水平。

It’s impossible without exceptional natural gifts.

如果没有非凡的天赋，这是不可能的。

And he has them.

他有它们。

He’s gifted.

他很有天赋。

Allah blessed him with those gifts.

安拉赐予他这些礼物。

And he’s deeply devoted to what he does.

他非常专注于他所做的事情。

We basically grew up together, right?

我们基本上是一起长大的，对吧？

I’m three years older than Islam.

我比伊斯兰教大三岁。

And I was always a little bigger, a little older than him.

我总是比他大一点，年纪大一点。

So when we were amateurs, I competed in slightly heavier weight classes.

因此，当我们还是业余爱好者时，我参加了稍重的体重级别比赛。

But we worked together a lot.

但我们一起工作了很多。

2:08:42 And Islam benefited tremendously from training with me.

伊斯兰教从我的训练中受益匪浅。

We trained together for many years.

我们一起训练了很多年。

And he never had to go anywhere to find a sparring partner because he always had one in the gym.

他从来不需要去任何地方寻找陪练伙伴，因为他在健身房里总是有一个陪练伙伴。

So I developed by training with the older guys in the gym, the stronger guys, the better guys when I was young.

所以当我年轻的时候，我通过在健身房里和年长的人、更强壮的人、更好的人一起训练来发展。

Then when they left, I was the one in front.

后来他们走了，我就走在前面。

Islam kept growing, growing, growing.

伊斯兰教不断发展、发展、发展。

Now I left.

现在我离开了。

Islam is the one in front.

伊斯兰教就是前面的那个。

And now other guys are developing through him.

现在其他人正在通过他成长。

This is a kind of chain that exists in a gym, in a training system that produces the best fighters in the world.

这是一种存在于健身房、培养世界上最好的拳手的训练系统中的链条。

And in this chain, Islam was always behind me.

在这个链条中，伊斯兰教始终在我身后。

If I was behind someone, Islam was behind me.

如果我支持某人，那么伊斯兰教就支持我。

Now others are following.

现在其他人也在效仿。

Islam, Usman, Amru, and other guys.

伊斯拉姆、乌斯曼、阿姆鲁和其他人。

2:09:35 You could put them against any of the best fighters in the world right now, and they would perform very well.

你可以让他们对抗现在世界上任何最好的拳手，他们都会表现得非常好。

So in this chain we’ve had since 2003, and now it’s already 2026, that’s 23 years.

所以这个链条我们从2003年就有了，现在已经2026年了，已经23年了。

Islam was the one coming up behind me.

伊斯兰教是站在我身后的那个人。

And now there are younger guys coming up behind Islam.

现在有一些年轻人支持伊斯兰教。

And it’s no secret that Islam will turn 35 in October.

伊斯兰教将于 10 月迎来 35 岁生日，这已不是什么秘密。

But what makes me happy is that there are younger guys coming up behind him.

但让我高兴的是他身后有更年轻的球员。

I left.

我离开了。

Islam stepped in.

伊斯兰教介入了。

One day Islam will leave too, and others will take his place.

有一天伊斯兰也会离开，其他人将会取代他的位置。

And this cycle, it never ends.

而这个循环，永远不会结束。

It keeps going, and it keeps pulling the next generation forward.

它会继续前进，并不断推动下一代前进。

At the beginning, a lot of people are involved.

一开始，很多人都参与其中。

But as you gradually climb higher, higher, and higher, the road gets narrower, and fewer and fewer people remain.

但随着你逐渐爬得越来越高，路越来越窄，留下来的人也越来越少。

2:10:33 And alongside Islam, a lot of guys were developing while training with me.

与伊斯兰教一起，很多人在与我一起训练时都在进步。

But Islam made it all the way because of his work ethic, his discipline, and let’s call it sacrifice.

但伊斯兰教之所以能够一路走来，是因为他的职业道德和纪律，我们称之为牺牲。

He gave up a lot to reach this level.

为了达到这个水平，他放弃了很多。

This isn’t easy.

这并不容易。

You have to make sacrifices.

你必须做出牺牲。

You have to make sacrifices.

你必须做出牺牲。

You have to give up parties.

你必须放弃聚会。

You have to sacrifice sleep.

你必须牺牲睡眠。

You have to sacrifice your time.

你必须牺牲你的时间。

There are so many things you have to give up.

有很多事情你必须放弃。

You have to dedicate your entire life to this sport, putting aside all the things that can distract you.

你必须将一生奉献给这项运动，抛开所有会让你分心的事情。

You train, you sleep, you eat, you wake up, and then you do it all over again.

你训练、睡觉、吃饭、醒来，然后再重复一遍。

Only then can you reach the level that Islam reached.

只有这样你才能达到伊斯兰教所达到的水平。

That’s what makes him unique.

这就是他的独特之处。

Were there any small but interesting differences between you and Islam, psychologically speaking?

从心理上来说，你和伊斯兰教之间有什么微小但有趣的差异吗？

There are many.

有许多。

2:11:38 Psychologically, he’s very solid too.

从心理上来说，他也很坚强。

I’ve been around him through so many training camps and so many fights.

我在他身边经历了这么多的训练营和这么多的战斗。

He’s built very strong mentally.

他的心理素质非常强大。

Of course, we’re different in certain things, but in terms of our fighter’s attitude toward their work, we have a lot in common.

当然，我们在某些方面有所不同，但就我们的战士对工作的态度而言，我们有很多共同点。

A lot.

很多。

You also train a lot.

你也训练很多。

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，绝对是。

2:11:59 A lot.

很多。

And I think he…

而且我认为他……

2:12:00 Well, first I have to say, I watched you train yesterday, and it made me really happy to see that you still love this so deeply.

好吧，首先我必须说，我昨天看了你训练，看到你仍然如此热爱这项工作，我真的很高兴。

You know, it’s hard to love something for such a long time.

你知道，爱一个东西这么久是很难的。

People finish and move on.

人们完成并继续前进。

2:12:17 They retire and move on.

他们退休并继续前进。

But me, it’s been six years since I retired, and I still haven’t let go of wrestling, of competition.

但我，退役已经六年了，我仍然没有放弃摔跤、比赛。

I still go to the gym, do cardio, lift, wrestle, grapple.

我仍然去健身房，做有氧运动、举重、摔跤、格斗。

I never let it go.

我从来没有放过它。

It’s still with me.

它还在我身边。

And yesterday I told you that last week I did 200 minutes of live grappling.

昨天我告诉过你，上周我进行了 200 分钟的现场格斗。

This week is a little different though, because I’m just focused on Umar, traveling, and everything that comes with that.

不过，本周有点不同，因为我只专注于奥马尔、旅行以及随之而来的一切。

So this week it’s going to be less.

所以本周会减少。

Still, I wrestle.

尽管如此，我还是摔跤。

I don’t let go.

我不放手。

I love it.

我喜欢它。

I love this energy.

我喜欢这种能量。

I love that feeling after wrestling.

我喜欢摔跤后的那种感觉。

You wrestle, let’s say 40 minutes.

你摔跤，比方说40分钟。

Yesterday I still wanted more.

昨天我还想要更多。

Just now I wrestled with you, with Islam, maybe 20 minutes, but still it’s not enough to get that feeling, that 100% feeling.

刚才我和你摔跤，和伊斯兰教摔跤，大概20分钟，但仍然不足以获得那种感觉，那种100%的感觉。

2:13:16 I need around 40 minutes of wrestling, something like that.

我需要大约 40 分钟的摔跤之类的。

I don’t think most people listening to us will understand that.

我认为大多数听我们讲话的人不会理解这一点。

But I think some people watching, especially grappling and jujitsu fans, will understand me.

但我认为一些观看的人，尤其是擒拿和柔术爱好者，会理解我。

Well, to be honest, sometimes there are cameras around you, and for me at least, that’s harder.

好吧，说实话，有时候你周围有摄像头，至少对我来说，这更困难。

2:13:36 I like it when there are none.

我喜欢没有的时候。

I usually train with no cameras.

我通常在没有相机的情况下训练。

2:13:45 With you was one of the rare occasions when I come to the gym and-

和你在一起是我难得来健身房的场合之一，然后-

You allow?

你允许吗？

When I allow it, yes.

当我允许的时候，是的。

Thanks for that.

谢谢你。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊，是啊。

2:13:56 This is very, very rare for me.

这对我来说是非常非常罕见的。

Even with Embedded, with UFC, with everyone who comes, I always say, “Don’t film.”

即使对于Embedded，对于UFC，对于每个来的人，我总是说，“不要拍摄。”

Thank you, brother.

谢谢你，兄弟。

2:14:04 I don’t know why, but cameras get in the way for me because this sport, this preparation, it happens here, and that whole world where celebrities matter, it gets in the way.

我不知道为什么，但相机对我来说是一种障碍，因为这项运动、这种准备工作都发生在这里，而整个世界都在名人的影响下，它成为了障碍。

Yes, it gets in the way.

是的，它妨碍了。

2:14:18 But 99.9% of our training sessions happen without cameras.

但我们 99.9% 的训练课程都是在没有摄像头的情况下进行的。

Well, thank you, brother.

嗯，谢谢你，兄弟。

2:14:26 Let me ask you this.

让我问你这个。

A lot of people say you’re number one, the greatest of all time.

很多人说你是第一，是有史以来最伟大的。

Do you think Islam has a chance to become the greatest MMA fighter of all time?

您认为伊斯兰教有机会成为有史以来最伟大的综合格斗选手吗？

Well, I’ve never said that, and I never set out to become number one or to become the greatest athlete and so on.

好吧，我从来没有这么说过，我也从来没有打算成为第一或成为最伟大的运动员等等。

2:14:39 I never had that.

我从来没有这样过。

My goal was always to become the best in my sport, to become a world champion, to prove to myself that I could do it.

我的目标始终是成为这项运动中最好的，成为世界冠军，向自己证明我可以做到。

But it’s hard to choose just one person.

但很难只选择一个人。

Even now, look, there’s always going to be St-Pierre, there’s always going to be Demetrious Johnson, there’s always going to be Jon Jones, there’s always going to be Fedor.

即使是现在，你看，总会有圣皮埃尔，总会有狄米崔斯·约翰逊，总会有乔恩·琼斯，总会有费多尔。

If people want to include me in that conversation, if Islam gets into that conversation, if there’s Cain Velasquez, Cormier, and so on, I’d be happy about that.

如果人们想让我参与到对话中，如果伊斯兰教参与到对话中，如果有该隐·委拉斯开兹、科米尔等人，我会很高兴。

And that’s my goal, that someone from our team, from the people closest to me, gets there too.

这就是我的目标，我们团队中的某个人和我最亲近的人也能实现这一目标。

If Jon Jones is there, why can’t Islam be there?

如果乔恩·琼斯在那里，为什么伊斯兰教不能在那里？

2:15:35 If Demetrious Johnson is there with 11 title defenses, why can’t Islam be there?

如果狄米崔斯·约翰逊 (Demetrious Johnson) 能卫冕 11 次，为什么伊斯拉姆 (Islam) 不能在那里呢？

It’s a good question.

这是一个好问题。

Why not?

为什么不呢？

I’d like him to break all those records, to overtake Jon Jones, Demetrious Johnson, and St-Pierre, no matter how much respect I have for them.

我希望他能打破所有这些记录，超越乔恩·琼斯、狄米崔斯·约翰逊和圣皮埃尔，无论我对他们有多么尊重。

Islam has a chance, but time is starting to run out a little.

伊斯兰教有机会，但时间已经不多了。

This worries me because, for example, Jones fought at light heavyweight and now at heavyweight.

这让我很担心，因为举例来说，琼斯曾参加过轻重量级比赛，现在又参加了重量级比赛。

Time is a little kinder to those divisions.

时间对这些分歧比较仁慈一些。

Even at 38, you can still compete at the heavier weights.

即使已经 38 岁了，您仍然可以参加较重的重量比赛。

You don’t need the same reaction speed and all that.

你不需要相同的反应速度等等。

But when you compete in lighter weight classes, 155, 170, age really catches up.

但当你参加较轻的体重级别（155、170）比赛时，年龄就真的会迎头赶上。

2:16:24 I think active fighters, retired fighters, wrestlers, athletes, especially those who competed in these weight classes, will understand what I’m talking about.

我认为现役拳击手、退役拳击手、摔跤手、运动员，尤其是那些参加这些重量级别比赛的人，都会理解我在说什么。

When you’re 35 and when you’re 32 and when you’re 38, you’re a totally different athlete.

当你 35 岁、32 岁和 38 岁时，你是一个完全不同的运动员。

From where you are now, you can see the entire fight business, and you know Dana White very well.

从你现在所在的位置，你可以看到整个拳击行业，你也非常了解达纳·怀特。

2:16:46 I’d say he’s one of those rare geniuses in sports business, in business, period.

我想说他是体育界、商业界罕见的天才之一。

I don’t think the UFC would exist without Dana White.

我认为如果没有达纳·怀特，UFC 就不会存在。

There are important people there, of course, but he’s really at the center of it all.

当然，那里有重要的人，但他确实是这一切的中心。

What can you say about him?

你能对他说些什么？

What qualities, what traits have made him such a successful businessman?

哪些品质、哪些特质使他成为如此成功的商人？

First of all, I think if you look at it, I also kind of…

首先，我想如果你看看它，我也有点......

2:17:19 Well, not kind of, I understand his position a little.

嗯，不怎么样，我有点理解他的立场。

I also ran my own league for a couple of years.

我还经营了自己的联赛几年。

I know what the relationship between a promoter, well, a league owner and the fighters is like, not just as a fighter dealing with a league owner.

我知道发起人，呃，联盟老板和战士之间的关系是什么样的，而不仅仅是战士与联盟老板打交道。

I’ve been on both sides of it.

我一直在这两个方面。

He’s very good at separating business from personal relationships.

他非常善于将生意与个人关系分开。

For him, the two never, never overlap.

对他来说，两者永远不会重叠。

He draws a clear line between them.

他在他们之间划清了界限。

In business, he’s extremely cold-blooded.

在生意场上，他极其冷血。

He’s made decisions, some major decisions, regardless of whether people like them or not.

他做出了一些决定，一些重大决定，不管人们是否喜欢。

And those decisions, they were best for the league and for the UFC.

这些决定对于联盟和 UFC 来说都是最好的。

He always had that mentality, you know, like in those mafia movies where family comes first, right?

他总是有这种心态，你知道，就像那些黑手党电影中家庭至上的那样，对吗？

2:18:25 Well, for him, the UFC always came first.

嗯，对他来说，UFC永远是第一位的。

That’s the only way he was able to push their brand forward.

这是他能够推动他们的品牌前进的唯一途径。

Of course, a lot of people contributed to that success.

当然，很多人为这一成功做出了贡献。

There were a lot of them.

他们有很多。

You have to give credit to Bruce Buffer, to Joe Rogan, to the commentators who were there.

你必须感谢布鲁斯·缓冲、乔·罗根和在场的评论员。

There were a lot of things that made the UFC unique, but the cherry on top was always Dana.

UFC 的独特之处有很多，但最重要的是达纳。

Dana did an incredible job promoting the UFC, and he still does.

达纳在宣传 UFC 方面做了令人难以置信的工作，现在仍然如此。

No matter what, the UFC is always there.

不管怎样，UFC永远都在。

You know?

你知道？

No matter how unsuccessful a particular event might be, the UFC is still the UFC.

无论某项赛事多么不成功，UFC 仍然是 UFC。

When they go into a new market outside the United States, even if a show doesn’t go so well, people will still come back for the next event simply because it’s the UFC.

当他们进入美国以外的新市场时，即使一场比赛进行得不太顺利，人们仍然会回来参加下一场比赛，因为那是UFC。

2:19:17 Over the last 30 plus years, they’ve established themselves as the premier MMA league in the world, and they put on the best fights.

在过去 30 多年里，他们已经成为世界顶级 MMA 联赛，并且打出了最精彩的比赛。

So in that respect, I think a huge part of the credit goes to Dana.

所以在这方面，我认为很大一部分功劳要归功于达纳。

The fact that the UFC has come this far is a major achievement.

UFC 能走到这一步，是一项重大成就。

Building a league like that is incredibly difficult.

建立一个这样的联盟是非常困难的。

Yeah.

是的。

2:19:36 A lot of people have money and a lot of people have tried.

很多人有钱，很多人都尝试过。

Many have come in.

很多人都进来了。

But building what the UFC has built is extremely hard.

但打造 UFC 已经建立的东西是极其困难的。

And what they’ve achieved now with Paramount, that’s something unique.

他们现在与派拉蒙取得的成就是独一无二的。

It’s a unique achievement.

这是一项独特的成就。

In just 30 years, they’ve grown to a level that some entire sports needed 100 or 150 years to reach.

在短短 30 年里，它们已经发展到了一些整个运动项目需要 100 或 150 年才能达到的水平。

And you have to give credit where it’s due, and that credit goes to one person, Dana White.

你必须给予应有的信任，而这个信任归于一个人，达纳·怀特（Dana White）。

So I think that his genius as a promoter, the way he promotes and pushes fights, and pushes his league as a whole, that is just remarkable.

所以我认为他作为发起人的天才，他促进和推动战斗的方式，以及推动整个联盟的方式，这是非常了不起的。

In my opinion, that’s something a lot of people could learn from him.

在我看来，这是很多人可以向他学习的地方。

You mentioned Joe Rogan.

你提到了乔·罗根。

2:20:17 You know, he’s a friend of mine.

你知道，他是我的朋友。

I love listening to his podcast, but I’ve never actually heard the two of you have a conversation together.

我喜欢听他的播客，但我从未真正听到过你们两个一起谈话。

Do you think that’s something that could happen in the future?

您认为这在未来会发生吗？

Yes, of course.

是的当然。

I know you have a great deal of respect for him, and he has a great deal of respect for you.

我知道你非常尊重他，他也非常尊重你。

2:20:30 I can’t wait to hear the two of you talk.

我迫不及待地想听你们两个说话。

Same here.

同样在这里。

2:20:37 If we’re talking about the people most responsible for promoting the UFC, I’d put Dana first.

如果我们谈论对 UFC 推广负有最大责任的人，我会把达纳放在第一位。

But second place, without question, goes to Joe Rogan.

但毫无疑问，第二名是乔·罗根。

It’s honestly hard to imagine the UFC without him.

老实说，很难想象没有他的 UFC。

It’ll be hard when he’s no longer part of it.

当他不再参与其中时，一切都会变得困难。

And what he’s achieved in his own field, what he’s achieved in podcasting, he’s the best.

他在自己的领域取得的成就，他在播客方面取得的成就，他是最好的。

And what he’s built, the way he commentates, the way he communicates, his knowledge, his charisma, the way he carries a conversation, I think a lot of people could learn from him.

他的创造、他的评论方式、他的沟通方式、他的知识、他的魅力、他进行对话的方式，我认为很多人都可以向他学习。

And as for me going on his podcast, I think it’s inevitable.

至于我上他的播客，我认为这是不可避免的。

God willing, if we’re given the time and the health, we’ll have a lot to talk about.

上帝保佑，如果给我们时间和健康，我们会有很多话可说。

There are so many different topics we could discuss together, so a conversation with Joe Rogan would be very interesting.

我们可以一起讨论很多不同的话题，所以与乔·罗根的对话会非常有趣。

2:21:25 I’d definitely like to talk to him.

我绝对想和他谈谈。

I agree.

我同意。

2:21:27 But it’s interesting, right now you and I are speaking Russian.

但有趣的是，现在你和我正在说俄语。

Yes.

是的。

Language is a tricky thing.

语言是一件棘手的事情。

Yeah, exactly.

是的，完全正确。

2:21:32 With him, you need to come prepared.

和他在一起，你需要做好准备。

Yes.

是的。

Because if you show up unprepared, he will just eat you alive.

因为如果你毫无准备地出现，他就会活活吃掉你。

2:21:36 You have to be ready.

你必须做好准备。

It’s a mental battle, too.

这也是一场心理战。

Yeah.

是的。

2:21:43 And by the way, you know, you’ve mentioned a few times that you’d like to improve your Arabic.

顺便说一句，你知道，你已经多次提到你想提高你的阿拉伯语水平。

Language is such an interesting thing.

语言真是一个有趣的东西。

It opens doors to understanding.

它打开了理解之门。

It allows you to understand culture and history on a much deeper level.

它可以让您更深入地了解文化和历史。

Absolutely.

绝对地。

2:22:01 Without the language, it’s very difficult.

没有语言，这是非常困难的。

I’m starting to study Arabic now, but I’ve been reading the Quran since I was a child.

我现在开始学习阿拉伯语，但我从小就读《古兰经》。

I know the alphabet very well, the pronunciation rules.

我非常熟悉字母表和发音规则。

I can read it well.

我能读得很好。

But the Quran and Arabic as a spoken language are different.

但作为口语的《古兰经》和阿拉伯语是不同的。

I wouldn’t say they’re drastically different, but they are different.

我不会说它们有很大不同，但它们是不同的。

If you want to speak it conversationally, you need to study grammar and learn it in a different way.

如果你想用对话的方式说话，你需要学习语法并以不同的方式学习它。

I’d also like to ask you about Ali, Ali Abdelaziz.

我还想问你关于阿里的事，阿里·阿卜杜拉齐兹。

2:22:31 He’s such a central figure.

他是一个核心人物。

He represents so many champions.

他代表了很多冠军。

What do you respect about him?

你尊重他什么？

What do you think makes him a genius?

你认为是什么让他成为天才？

Because he’s such a unique person.

因为他是一个如此独特的人。

Well, I met Ali in 2014.

嗯，我在 2014 年认识了阿里。

2:22:47 We’ve been working together ever since.

从那时起我们就一直在一起工作。

Over the years, a lot of fighters came to him through me, a lot of guys.

多年来，很多战士通过我来找他，很多人。

And in all this time, in the 12 years we’ve known each other, I don’t– I can barely remember any fighters leaving him, except maybe a couple.

在我们认识的 12 年里，我几乎不记得有任何战士离开他，除了一对夫妇。

But hundreds of fighters have worked with him, hundreds of fighters, and so many guys still keep in touch with him, and he has very good relationships with them.

但是数百名战士与他共事过，数百名战士，还有很多人仍然与他保持联系，他与他们的关系非常好。

I’d also like to note that Ali, you know, he has one unique quality.

我还想指出，阿里，你知道，他有一种独特的品质。

People either really love him or really hate him.

人们要么真的爱他，要么真的恨他。

You can’t just be neutral about him, you know, like, “Yeah, I know Ali.

你不能对他保持中立，你知道，比如，“是的，我认识阿里。

He’s all right.” No one will say about him, “Well, you know, I know him.

他没事。”没有人会说他：“嗯，你知道，我认识他。

He’s a good guy.” You’ll have strong feelings for him.

他是个好人。”你会对他产生强烈的感情。

2:23:49 Either you hate him or you really love him.

要么你恨他，要么你真的爱他。

And I am in that category of people who really…

我属于这一类人，他们真的……

How do I put it?

我该怎么说呢？

Who are very fond of him.

谁都非常喜欢他。

And I have a good relationship with him.

而且我和他关系很好。

I know his family.

我认识他的家人。

I know his children.

我认识他的孩子们。

His kids grew up before my eyes.

他的孩子们在我眼前长大。

When I first met him, he only had two or three children.

当我第一次见到他时，他只有两三个孩子。

Now he has more.

现在他拥有更多。

This is the kind of person he is.

他就是这样的人。

You need to get to know him better to really appreciate him, and he will stand by you until the very end.

你需要更好地了解他才能真正欣赏他，他会一直支持你直到最后。

And yeah, of course, there are people who have mixed feelings about him.

是的，当然，有些人对他有着复杂的感情。

But that’s my point.

但这就是我的观点。

It’s hard to feel indifferent about Ali.

人们很难对阿里无动于衷。

“I know Ali.

“我认识阿里。

He’s a very good guy.” No, it’s different with him.

他是一个非常好的人。”不，他的情况不一样。

People will either tell you, “I know Ali and I absolutely love him,” or, “I know Ali and I can’t stand him.”

人们要么会告诉你，“我了解阿里，我绝对爱他，”或者，“我了解阿里，但我无法忍受他。”

So, so it’s fair to say that most people who

所以，可以公平地说，大多数人

Yes, yes.

是的，是的。

…

……

2:24:52 who really know him and work with him tend to stay with him for life?

谁真正了解他并与他共事并愿意与他相伴一生？

Yes.

是的。

And respect him.

并尊重他。

2:24:57 That’s important.

这很重要。

And his judo isn’t bad either.

而且他的柔道也不错。

It was.

是的。

He showed me.

他给我看了。

It was.

是的。

2:25:03 It was, it was.

曾经是，曾经是。

Oh, right, you were just wrestling yesterday.

哦，对了，你昨天刚刚摔跤。

2:25:04 All right.

好的。

2:25:08 Let’s talk about football now.

现在我们来谈谈足球吧。

I want to ask you something, and I need to be careful here because after yesterday, I realize just how much you know about the game.

我想问你一些事情，但我需要小心，因为经过昨天之后，我意识到你对这个游戏有多少了解。

I can’t even pretend I know what I’m talking about anymore.

我什至不能再假装我知道自己在说什么了。

I need to tread carefully.

我需要小心行事。

Yes.

是的。

2:25:23 If we’re gonna go there- …

如果我们要去那里-...

don’t make any mistakes.

不要犯任何错误。

I hope you did your research.

我希望你做了你的研究。

I’m shaking now.

我现在在发抖。

You prepared?

你准备好了吗？

Wait.

等待。

2:25:30 We could talk about a lot of interesting teams.

我们可以谈论很多有趣的团队。

You talked about the moment when you fell in love with football.

你谈到了你爱上足球的那一刻。

That was the Champions League final in 1998.

那是1998年的欧冠决赛。

It was Real Madrid against Juventus.

这是皇家马德里对阵尤文图斯的比赛。

It was the moment when you realized that Real Madrid was your team, the club you’ve continued to love and support ever since.

那一刻你意识到皇家马德里是你的球队，从那时起你就一直热爱和支持的俱乐部。

Tell me about that very first moment when you watched the game with your father.

告诉我你和父亲一起观看比赛的第一刻。

What do you remember?

你还记得什么？

You know, this is such an important sport for you, for millions, hundreds of millions, billions of people.

你知道，这对你、对数百万、数亿、数十亿人来说都是如此重要的运动。

Billions, yes.

数十亿，是的。

What do you remember most about that game, and what did you fall in love with?

关于这款游戏，你印象最深刻的是什么？你爱上了什么？

Well, first of all, my father was a huge football fan.

嗯，首先，我父亲是一名超级足球迷。

2:26:12 He was a good player himself.

他本人就是一名优秀的球员。

When we lived in the village, they played almost every day.

我们住在村里的时候，他们几乎每天都玩。

Football has always been very popular where I’m from.

在我的家乡，足球一直很受欢迎。

The kids, the young people, everyone plays.

孩子们、年轻人，每个人都在玩。

In fact, we still have this tradition in the village.

事实上，我们村里仍然保留着这个传统。

As long as I can remember, it was a tradition to…

从我记事起，这是一个传统……

for each street to put together its own team for a tournament with group stages, then the quarterfinals, semifinals, and the final.

每条街道都组建自己的球队参加锦标赛，包括小组赛、四分之一决赛、半决赛和决赛。

So it became a real tradition, and everyone would…

所以这成为了一个真正的传统，每个人都会……

Everyone there follows football, the kids, the young people.

那里的每个人都关注足球，孩子们，年轻人。

And my father played, too.

我父亲也玩。

Whenever there was a big match on, I’d always sit with him in front of the television and watch.

每当有重要比赛时，我总是和他一起坐在电视机前观看。

2:27:03 The first football memory I have that’s really clear and conscious goes back to 1996.

我的第一个非常清晰且有意识的足球记忆可以追溯到 1996 年。

I couldn’t tell you where we were watching it.

我无法告诉你我们在哪里观看的。

I don’t remember, but I remember sitting next to my father.

我不记得了，但我记得坐在我父亲旁边。

It was the European Championship semifinal, Germany and England.

那是欧洲杯半决赛，德国队和英格兰队。

England lost on penalties at home, and Germany advanced to the final.

英格兰队在主场点球大战中失利，德国队晋级决赛。

A few days later, we watched the final as well.

几天后，我们也观看了决赛。

We were at someone’s place.

我们在某人的地方。

We didn’t have a TV at the time, or maybe our channel wasn’t showing the match.

我们当时没有电视，或者我们的频道没有播放比赛。

I don’t remember.

我不记得了。

We watched it at somebody’s place.

我们在某人的地方观看了它。

It was Germany against the Czech Republic.

这是德国队对阵捷克队的比赛。

Germany won that final.

德国队赢得了那场决赛。

I remember Oliver Bierhoff coming off the bench and scoring.

我记得奥利弗·比埃尔霍夫替补出场并得分。

That whole period is still very vivid in my memory.

那段时期我至今记忆犹新。

After that, I kept watching football whenever I could.

从那以后，我一有机会就继续看足球比赛。

2:27:52 And I remember the 1998 Champions League final.

我还记得1998年的欧冠决赛。

I watched it with my father.

我和我父亲一起看的。

Again, I don’t remember where we watched it, but it was the final, one to zero.

再说一次，我不记得我们在哪里观看的，但那是决赛，一比零。

Real Madrid won.

皇马赢了。

I can still remember the players who were on the pitch.

我仍然记得球场上的球员。

I was obsessed with football myself.

我自己也对足球着迷。

I’d spend hours, days outside playing with a ball, sometimes on my own, sometimes with a group.

我会花几个小时、几天的时间在外面玩球，有时是一个人，有时是和一群人一起。

There was a period when, actually, in the settlement where I lived, in the village, I was pretty much the only kid who had a football.

事实上，有一段时间，在我居住的村子里，我几乎是唯一拥有足球的孩子。

So the older guys would come over.

所以年纪大的人就会过来。

I was maybe nine or ten, and these were boys who were fifteen or sixteen.

我大概九岁或十岁，而这些男孩则十五岁或十六岁。

They’d say, “Khabib, bring the ball out.”

他们会说：“哈比卜，把球拿出来。”

2:28:38 But I’d give them a condition for bringing the ball out.

但我会给他们一个把球带出的条件。

When you’re ten years old, nobody is putting you on a team with fifteen-year-olds, you know.

你知道，当你十岁的时候，没有人会把你和十五岁的孩子放在一起。

The age gap is just too big.

年龄差距实在是太大了。

So I’d say, “If I bring the ball, I’m playing.” They go, “All right, bring it out,” and I’d get to play.

所以我会说，“如果我带球，我就在比赛。”他们说，“好吧，把它拿出来”，然后我就可以玩了。

And the kids my own age didn’t make the team.

和我同龄的孩子没有进入球队。

You know how it is when there are a lot of kids around.

你知道当周围有很多孩子时会是什么样子。

Of course, the older boys would take charge.

当然，年龄较大的男孩会负责。

They decide who’s playing.

他们决定谁上场。

Normally, when you’re ten and they’re fifteen, there was no chance you’d get picked.

通常，当你十岁而他们十五岁时，你就没有机会被选中。

But I was very lucky.

但我很幸运。

I had the ball, so I always made the team and got to play with them.

我有球权，所以我总是能融入球队并与他们一起比赛。

That’s where it all started, really, you know.

这就是一切开始的地方，真的，你知道。

That love for football started in my childhood.

对足球的热爱始于我的童年。

My father and I always watched the big matches together.

我和父亲总是一起观看大型比赛。

2:29:21 I even remember 1998.

我什至记得1998年。

I remember being somewhere and literally running home, so I wouldn’t miss the opening ceremony of the tournament in France.

我记得当时在某个地方，然后就跑回家了，这样我就不会错过法国锦标赛的开幕式。

I was just running.

我只是在跑步。

I ran to my grandfather’s house and said, “Grandpa, put on channel one.” I think it was channel one that was showing the opening.

我跑到爷爷家说：“爷爷，调一频道吧。”我认为是第一频道正在显示开幕。

Ronaldo was playing in that tournament.

罗纳尔多参加了那场比赛。

So I sat there watching, and my grandfather looked at me.

于是我坐在那里看着，祖父看着我。

I was ten.

我当时十岁。

He looked at me and said, “Why are you interested?” I said, “I want to watch.” I sat and watched.

他看着我说：“你为什么感兴趣？”我说：“我想看。”我坐下来观看。

The Brazilians won both matches back then, I think.

我认为巴西人当时赢得了两场比赛。

They won against Morocco and lost to the Norwegians.

他们赢了摩洛哥，输给了挪威。

The opening match was Brazil against Scotland, two-one, right?

首场比赛是巴西对阵苏格兰，二比一，对吧？

Yeah, two to one.

是的，二比一。

2:30:03 So basically, from childhood, I already had that love for football, and then it just grew.

所以基本上，从孩提时代起，我就已经对足球产生了热爱，然后这种热爱就与日俱增。

I started watching the Champions League, the Euros, the World Cup, and later the domestic leagues, mostly the Premier League.

我开始看欧冠、欧洲杯、世界杯，后来又看国内联赛，主​​要是英超联赛。

So that’s where this passion comes from.

这就是这种热情的来源。

And what about national teams?

那么国家队呢？

2:30:22 Brazil was your team growing up, right?

巴西队是你成长过程中的球队，对吧？

That legendary Brazil team.

那支传奇的巴西队。

I like Brazil, yes.

我喜欢巴西，是的。

2:30:30 I also like the Netherlands.

我也喜欢荷兰。

Those national teams, Brazil and the Netherlands, those were the ones that really appealed to me.

那些国家队，巴西队和荷兰队，才是真正吸引我的国家队。

And what about clubs?

那么俱乐部呢？

2:30:39 What were the main teams that you supported?

您支持的主要球队有哪些？

It varied.

它多种多样。

2:30:43 I never had one national team that I’d say was my favorite team.

我从来没有一支国家队是我最喜欢的球队。

Ah, you didn’t?

啊，你没有？

I didn’t.

我没有。

2:30:48 Today, I don’t feel the same way about the Netherlands.

今天，我对荷兰的感觉就不一样了。

But back then, I really liked that Dutch team a lot.

但当时我真的很喜欢那支荷兰队。

Van der Sar, Reiziger, van Bronckhorst, Overmars, Davids, Seedorf, van Nistelrooy, Makaay.

范德萨、雷齐格、范布隆克霍斯特、奥维马斯、戴维斯、西多夫、范尼斯特鲁伊、马凯。

That old lineup.

那个老阵容。

Kluivert.

克鲁伊维特。

Now it’s not the same.

现在不一样了。

That era is gone.

那个时代已经过去了。

They just don’t have players like that anymore.

他们只是不再拥有这样的球员了。

In that sense, there’s been a bit of a drop-off for the national team.

从这个意义上说，国家队的表现有些下滑。

The same with Brazil.

巴西也是如此。

Back then, they were incredibly strong, but today it’s not at that same level anymore.

那时候，他们的实力非常强大，但今天已经不是那个水平了。

But when it comes to the club, the club I follow, that’s Real Madrid.

但说到俱乐部，我关注的俱乐部就是皇家马德里。

That’s the one.

就是这个。

But if we’re talking about leagues overall, then because of the competition and the way the league is played, I’d say the English Premier League.

但如果我们谈论整个联赛，那么由于竞争和联赛的运作方式，我会说英超联赛。

And in the Premier League, do you follow Man U, City?

在英超联赛中，你关注曼联、曼城吗？

Not in a way where I have one team, no.

不是以我拥有一支团队的方式，不。

2:31:38 I like them.

我喜欢他们。

They’re both top clubs.

他们都是顶级俱乐部。

They’re big clubs.

他们是大俱乐部。

I watch them.

我看着他们。

I follow them.

我跟着他们。

It just depends.

这只是取决于。

But it’s not like I have one favorite.

但这并不是我最喜欢的。

I do like City, Manchester City.

我确实喜欢曼城，曼城。

In recent years, they’ve been winning almost everything.

近年来，他们几乎赢得了一切。

They’ve dominated for the last ten years.

他们在过去十年里一直占据主导地位。

But if we look more closely at Manchester City, there’s been a bit of a dip over the last two seasons.

但如果我们更仔细地观察曼城，就会发现过去两个赛季的情况有所下降。

And then you also have the rise of Arsenal in the last couple of seasons, a very well-structured team under Arteta.

然后你也看到了阿森纳在过去几个赛季的崛起，这是一支在阿尔特塔领导下结构非常好的球队。

They’re really on the rise this season.

他们本赛季确实在崛起。

They’re leading the league, doing well in the Champions League.

他们在联赛中处于领先地位，在冠军联赛中表现出色。

They’re leading domestically as well, so I don’t know how far they’ll go, but they’re aiming for the treble this season.

他们在国内也处于领先地位，所以我不知道他们会走多远，但他们的目标是本赛季的三冠王。

I wanna ask because we lived through such a moment in sports history- …

我想问，因为我们经历过体育史上的这样一个时刻——……

2:32:23 that we might never see anything like it again.

我们可能再也见不到类似的东西了。

I’m talking about this, this rivalry between Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo.

我说的是梅西和克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多之间的竞争。

Of course, since you love Real Madrid, you know, you naturally love Cristiano Ronaldo, but what can you say about it?

当然，既然你爱皇马，你知道，你自然就爱克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多，但是你能说什么呢？

A lot of people call him the absolute best, and for many, Messi is number one.

很多人称他绝对是最好的，对许多人来说，梅西是第一。

There’s also a very good book about their rivalry.

还有一本关于他们的竞争的好书。

I recommend it.

我推荐它。

It basically tells the story of modern football through their rivalry, Messi versus Ronaldo, one rivalry, almost 20-year era.

它基本上通过梅西与罗纳尔多的竞争来讲述现代足球的故事，一场竞争，近20年的时代。

Two GOATs in an era that remade the world’s game.

重塑世界足球的时代的两位山羊。

So it’s been 20 years.

就这样，20年过去了。

So what can you say?

那么你能说什么？

Why do you consider Cristiano Ronaldo a great footballer?

为什么您认为克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多是一位伟大的足球运动员？