Vishy Anand on Staying in the Game (Ep. 188)

For the first time, I thought in an organized way.

我第一次以一种有组织的方式思考。

I started to work.

我开始工作了。

There are people opposite you who contradict you, who are strong enough to contradict you and tell you, “No, actually, I think you’re wrong here.

你对面的人会反驳你，他们的力量足以反驳你，并告诉你：“不，实际上，我认为你错了。

You should think of this move,” or “This is better, that is better,” or “I once did this,” and what have you.

你应该想到这个举动”，或者“这个更好，那个更好”，或者“我曾经这样做过”，以及你有什么。

You start to work like that on a systematic basis.

你开始系统地进行这样的工作。

I played my first Candidates match in January in Chennai against Dreev, and suddenly, I was paired against Karpov for the quarterfinals.

一月份，我在钦奈对阵德雷夫，参加了我的第一场候选人赛，突然间，我在四分之一决赛中与卡尔波夫配对。

That was going to be in Brussels in July, roughly a year since I qualified.

那是七月在布鲁塞尔举行的，距我获得资格大约一年了。

Again, I worked with Gurevich, who had been on Kasparov’s team, and so on.

我再次与古列维奇合作，他曾是卡斯帕罗夫团队的成员，等等。

I started working with him a lot.

我开始经常和他一起工作。

I had played Linares.

我玩过利纳雷斯。

I had played Munich.

我曾经踢过慕尼黑比赛。

So, I’d suddenly started to play very strong tournaments and face this opposition regularly.

所以，我突然开始参加非常强大的比赛并经常面对这样的对手。

Gurevich taught me lots of things.

古列维奇教会了我很多东西。

First of all, a lot of personal insights about Karpov.

首先，关于卡尔波夫的很多个人见解。

He always used to say when Karpov is fidgeting with his lips like this, it means he’s calculating, but he’s not quite sure what’s happening, and he’s nervous.

他总是说，当卡尔波夫像这样摆弄嘴唇时，这意味着他在算计，但他不太确定发生了什么，而且他很紧张。

Then you look for it, and you actually see the man fidgeting with his lips, and then you realize that his moves are shaky.

然后你去找去，果然看到那人在嘴唇上扭动着，然后才发现他的动作有些颤抖。

It opens your eyes to the practical element.

它让你看到实用的元素。

We worked very hard.

我们工作非常努力。

Again, I think the level with him was one notch higher than what I had worked to with Van der Wiel and Hellers.

再说一遍，我认为与他合作的水平比我与范德维尔和海勒斯合作的水平高了一个档次。

One funny story.

一个有趣的故事。

The first day, I asked Gurevich if I could watch — there was a Star Trek going on in the background.

第一天，我问古列维奇是否可以观看——背景中有一部《星际迷航》正在上演。

Would he mind if I watched that while we work?

如果我在工作时看这个，他会介意吗？

He said no. He said, “If you want to watch Star Trek, I’ll go to my house.

他说不。他说：“如果你想看《星际迷航》，我就去我家。

You call me when it’s over.

结束后你给我打电话。

I’ll come back, but we’re not doing two things at the same time.”

我会回来，但我们不会同时做两件事。”

Gurevich would sit and analyze for me.

古列维奇会坐下来为我分析。

We would discuss the position briefly, then he’d tell me, “No, you go to sleep.

我们会简短地讨论一下这个职位，然后他会告诉我，“不，你去睡觉吧。

I’m going to spend the whole night working.” He would work till 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, checking everything alone.

我要整晚都在工作。”他会工作到凌晨3:00或4:00，独自检查一切。

The next morning when I woke up, he would brief me on everything.

第二天早上，当我醒来时，他会向我介绍一切。

Then you suddenly realize, “Oh my God, how many things he found while he was working on this position.”

然后你突然意识到，“天哪，他在这个岗位上发现了多少东西。”

Mine was very scatterbrained.

我的头脑非常分散。

Because I was an intuitive player, I often couldn’t explain what it is I was going to do.

因为我是一个直觉型玩家，所以我经常无法解释我要做什么。

I would find the correct move very often, but if you pin me as to why, I didn’t really know.

我经常会找到正确的举动，但如果你问我为什么，我真的不知道。

It was just the way I played chess.

这就是我下棋的方式。

This kind of thing.

这种事。

I played a couple of tournaments between Brussels and Reggio Emilia.

我在布鲁塞尔和雷焦艾米利亚之间参加了几场比赛。

Specifically, I played in Tilburg.

具体来说，我在蒂尔堡踢球。

I beat Kasparov.

我打败了卡斯帕罗夫。

I beat Karpov.

我打败了卡尔波夫。

I beat Kamsky.

我打败了卡姆斯基。

I beat Korchnoi.

我打败了科尔奇诺伊。

I beat Short, but I also lost to Kasparov.

我击败了肖特，但也输给了卡斯帕罗夫。

I lost to Kamsky.

我输给了甘姆斯基。

I lost to Karpov.

我输给了卡尔波夫。

Some of these losses were just ridiculous —

其中一些损失简直是荒谬的 ——

It’s one thing training for this, but it’s not real.

为此进行训练是一回事，但这不是真实的。

The second thing is actually facing it over the board, and then it becomes real in a way.

第二件事实际上是在棋盘上面对它，然后它在某种程度上变得真实。

All these things combined.

所有这些事情加在一起。

Then in Reggio Emilia, I won my first game with Salov.

然后在雷焦艾米利亚，我和萨洛夫一起赢得了第一场比赛。

I suddenly thought, “I actually played that game quite well.

我突然想：其实这个游戏我玩得还不错。

I don’t know what happened, but I played that game quite well.” Then I beat Kasparov in the second round.

我不知道发生了什么，但我打得很好。”然后我在第二轮击败了卡斯帕罗夫。

Again, it seemed pretty easy, and I’d already beaten him twice within two months.

再说一次，这似乎很容易，而且我在两个月内已经打败了他两次。

Then I lost to Gurevich.

然后我输给了古列维奇。

That was a very nice surprise.

这是一个非常好的惊喜。

I remember faxing a friend, just, “I won, I won, I won.” I wrote it three times and faxed it to him.

我记得给朋友发传真时，只是说：“我赢了，我赢了，我赢了。”我写了三遍然后传真给他。

I don’t know if everyone in the audience will know what a fax machine is, but anyway —

不知道在座的各位是否都知道什么是传真机，但无论如何 ——

On facing Ivanchuk

面对伊万丘克

There’s a clear pattern.

有一个清晰的模式。

I wouldn’t call it underestimation, but you feel you’re wallowing in your strength, and you think it’ll probably work out fine; there’s no need to worry about all these things.

我不会称之为低估，但你会觉得自己沉浸在自己的力量中，并且认为这可能会很好；无需担心所有这些事情。

And then, that’s when he would beat you.

然后，那时他就会打败你。

When you’re fully concentrated, his score is not so good.

当你全神贯注的时候，他的成绩就不太好。

The solution suggested itself, but he was a tricky opponent all my life.

解决方案自然而然地出现了，但他一直是我一生中最棘手的对手。

The thing is, because I started out with an early plus score against him, he saw it as a stiff rivalry.

问题是，因为我一开始就以高分对阵他，所以他认为这是一场激烈的竞争。

Initially, I just thought, “Well, he’s Soviet, so he must be better than me.” I didn’t feel any rivalry.

最初，我只是想，“好吧，他是苏联人，所以他一定比我强。”我没有感觉到任何竞争。

Then even when I got better than him, I didn’t switch into this, that he’s my rival.

然后，即使我比他更好，我也没有变成这样，他是我的对手。

I kept thinking, “Well, we’re all rivals, but we’re all facing how to get to the World Championship,” but he felt it was a rivalry much more.

我一直在想，“好吧，我们都是竞争对手，但我们都面临着如何进入世界冠军的问题”，但他觉得这更像是一场竞争。

Then the next year, Luis Rentero, the organizer of Linares — he organized a friendly match between Ivanchuk and me, and I beat him there.

第二年，利纳雷斯队的组织者路易斯·伦特罗——他组织了一场伊万丘克和我之间的友谊赛，我在那里击败了他。

Slightly undeserved, in the sense of I didn’t get good positions, but I won them anyway.

有点不值得，因为我没有得到好的位置，但无论如何我还是赢得了它们。

But that’s chess.

但这就是国际象棋。

I think it bugged him a lot.

我认为这让他很烦恼。

For many years, he would ignore the rest of the tournament.

多年来，他都会忽略锦标赛的其余部分。

He almost couldn’t concentrate against the others.

他几乎无法集中精力对付其他人。

Then when he came against me, you knew he’d been waiting the whole week for this one game.

然后当他对阵我时，你知道他为了这场比赛已经等了整整一个星期了。

It was annoying to have such a mark on your back.

背上有这样的印记真烦人。

There’s this one guy who is just thinking of you all the time, while you’re thinking of all your opponents in a very organized fashion.

有一个人一直在想着你，而你则以一种非常有组织的方式思考你的所有对手。

Anyway, many years later, in Tata Steel in 2003, in Wijk aan Zee, I realized that he wasn’t even concerned about me anymore.

不管怎样，很多年后，2003 年在塔塔钢铁公司，在滨海韦克，我意识到他甚至不再关心我了。

Now, the new mark for him was Ponomariov, who had just beaten him.

现在，他的新目标是刚刚击败他的波诺马里奥夫。

I felt relieved: “Okay, he can have Chucky.” Ivanchuk’s level can vary enormously.

我松了口气：“好吧，他可以拥有张策了。”伊万丘克的水平差异很大。

I think that was the tricky part in playing him, that you had to focus a bit harder than others.

我认为这是扮演他的棘手部分，你必须比其他人更加集中注意力。

You couldn’t get by on just natural moves because he could be playing genius moves, or his level could drop a lot.

你不能只靠自然的招式，因为他可能会打出天才的招式，或者他的水平可能会下降很多。

He’s even more vulnerable, I think, psychologically than many others.

我认为，他在心理上比其他许多人更加脆弱。

If he’s not in the right frame of mind, his level can plummet.

如果他的心态不正确，他的水平就会直线下降。

Equally, he can suddenly motivate himself to do great things.

同样，他可以突然激励自己去做伟大的事情。

The hardest problem, even, is that he looks totally distracted during the game.

最困难的问题是，他在比赛中看起来完全心不在焉。

That also lulls you into a false sense of security.

这也会让你陷入一种虚假的安全感。

With him, it’s always psychology, watching his face — things like that — which mattered more than the actual moves.

对他来说，总是心理作用，观察他的脸——诸如此类的事情——比实际的动作更重要。

On the 1995 game against Kasparov

1995 年对阵卡斯帕罗夫的比赛

For instance, Kramnik is lethal with him because he knew how to get the kind of positions where Garry would lash out, and then he would punish it.

例如，克拉姆尼克对他来说是致命的，因为他知道如何获得加里会猛烈抨击的位置，然后他会惩罚它。

My style didn’t allow me to punish him quite so well, so I’ve exploited it on fewer occasions.

我的风格不允许我很好地惩罚他，所以我很少利用它。

But that one went like a dream in Moscow.

但那件事在莫斯科就像一场梦。

It made up for losing to him a little bit earlier in the month in Riga, so I was happy to win that against him.

这弥补了本月早些时候在里加输给他的损失，所以我很高兴能战胜他。

Then I went and lost to Ivanchuk in the final, who did his typical thing of suddenly realizing his whole life depended on this one game.

然后我在决赛中输给了伊万丘克，他做了他典型的事情，突然意识到他的一生都取决于这场比赛。

I lost to him and then played the match against Garry a few months later.

我输给了他，几个月后又与加里进行了比赛。

On the match against Kramnik

关于对阵克拉姆尼克的比赛

In fact, it is one of the things which has leveled preparation, that a club player who knows one opening well can play against a top grandmaster in that opening.

事实上，熟悉一个开局的俱乐部球员可以在该开局中与顶级大师对战，这是水平准备的事情之一。

The top grandmaster’s insight has to be, take a look at the club player, gauge what work he might have done, have a sense of what areas he specializes in, then avoid them at all costs because that’s the best strategy for success.

顶级特级大师的洞察力必须是，看看俱乐部球员，评估他可能做了什么工作，了解他擅长哪些领域，然后不惜一切代价避免他们，因为这是成功的最佳策略。

You avoid the club player’s preparation.

你避免了俱乐部球员的准备工作。

It doesn’t matter if you’re playing it well or bad; the difference in level will show.

不管你弹得好还是坏，都没关系。水平的差异就会显现出来。

If you play into anything where the computer could have had a guiding hand, you have pretty bad luck.

如果你参与任何计算机可以指导的事情，那么你的运气就很糟糕。

Anyway, the thing with Kramnik was that I had a team.

不管怎样，克拉姆尼克的问题是我有一个团队。

All of them were d4 specialists.

他们都是d4专家。

We had eight months during which I could have trained a lot.

我们有八个月的时间我可以进行很多训练。

We trained a lot on d4.

我们在 d4 上进行了很多训练。

We found interesting ideas.

我们发现了有趣的想法。

I played training games, again, to make up for the lack of understanding.

我又打了训练赛，以弥补理解上的不足。

Play training games, check it again with the computer, go deeper and deeper, try to understand hidden nuances, and so on.

玩训练游戏，用电脑再次检查，越来越深入，尝试理解隐藏的细微差别，等等。

I was pretty confident that we had lines prepared against the Grünfeld and King’s Indian.

我非常有信心我们已经准备好对抗格林菲尔德和国王印第安人的阵容。

In fact, I had a complete d4 repertoire, start to finish.

事实上，我有一套完整的 d4 曲目，从头到尾。

Even the most obscure lines, the job to my second was, “Give me a line that doesn’t lose and I don’t look embarrassing.

即使是最晦涩的台词，我的第二个任务也是，“给我一句不会失败的台词，这样我就不会显得尴尬。

I can make a few moves, come back, and then we can go drill deeper if he does something unexpected.”

我可以采取一些行动，然后回来，如果他做出意想不到的事情，我们就可以深入研究。”

It wouldn’t have been that easy, but if he had the confidence, it wasn’t a bad strategy to try.

虽然没那么容易，但如果他有信心，尝试一下这也不失为一个好策略。

He could have done it.

他本可以做到的。

Not because he thinks he’s going to outplay me, but because he thinks, “Well, I know this just as well as you.

不是因为他认为他会打败我，而是因为他想，“好吧，我和你一样了解这一点。

Let’s see what you’ve got.” It’s that kind of thing.

让我们看看你有什么。”就是这样的事情。

It’s not quite as easy.

这并不那么容易。

In fact, I faced this often myself in reverse, that Kramnik used to play e4 suddenly a lot against me.

事实上，我自己也经常遇到这样的情况，克拉姆尼克经常突然对我玩e4。

It’s very nice to say I have more experience than him, but where should I strike?

可以说我比他更有经验，但是我应该从哪里下手呢？

Which is the area he is likely to be weakened?

他可能会削弱哪个领域？

That’s not easy to pick out.

这并不容易挑选出来。

By game eight, I had moved on because, allowing for everything, we knew that his sense that white was better was correct.

到了第八场比赛，我继续前进，因为考虑到一切因素，我们知道他认为白色更好的感觉是正确的。

We had run as far with this as we should.

我们已经尽力了。

We went to our second opening, which is the Vienna, and we went with that.

我们去了第二个开业的地方，即维也纳，我们就去了。

It’s really only game five.

这实际上只是第五场比赛。

He took it personally, he came in, but once again, we had outstanding prep.

他认为这是针对个人的，他进来了，但我们再一次做好了出色的准备。

And by a miracle, my Polish trainer, Wojtaszek — we have this hurried conference from 2:00 to 2:25 or something, where they just brush me up on everything and last-minute stuff and everything.

奇迹的是，我的波兰教练 Wojtaszek ——我们从 2:00 到 2:25 左右召开了一次匆忙的会议，他们只是向我重温了所有事情以及最后一刻的事情等等。

At about 2:20, Radek said, “Look, there’s one thing I want to show you.

大约 2 点 20 分，拉德克说：“看，我想给你看一件事。

Sit down.” I sat down.

坐下吧。”我坐了下来。

He showed me this one line, exactly which happened in game five.

他向我展示了这句话，正是第五场比赛中发生的事情。

He said, “This is a terrible line.

他说：“这是一条可怕的线。

I’ve spent all night on it.

我花了一整夜的时间。

I finally found an emergency solution, emergency parachute.

我终于找到了紧急解决办法，紧急降落伞。

You play a rook c5 at this point.

此时你扮演车 c5。

The rook is active on this rank.

该车在此级别上很活跃。

I’ve checked it, it doesn’t lose on the spot.

我查了一下，没有当场就丢了。

Go.” His job was, “There’s no way we can cover everything in chess.

走吧。”他的工作是，“我们不可能涵盖国际象棋的所有内容。

I’m giving you this position for dummies.

我给你这个傻瓜职位。

This is all you need to know, and you’ll have to figure out the rest on your own.” I said, “Okay.”

这就是你需要知道的一切，剩下的就得你自己想办法了。”我说：“好吧。”

When I sat at the board and I had this chance to play rook c5, I thought, “Thank God he briefed me on this at this point.” So, there’s some luck as well.

当我坐在棋盘上并有机会玩 c5 车时，我想，“感谢上帝，他在这一点上向我介绍了这一点。”所以，也有一些运气。

I knew every move I made.

我知道我所做的每一个动作。

I said, “Rook c5 — I don’t trust this position well, but Radek told me it works.

我说，“Rook c5 — 我不太相信这个位置，但拉德克告诉我它有效。

That’s good enough,” and so on.

这就足够了，”等等。

We went with that, and then he blundered.

我们同意了，然后他犯了错误。

But I was already in a very good situation.

但我已经处于一个非常好的境地了。

I knew what I had to do.

我知道我必须做什么。

I knew I was where I was supposed to be, and I knew that I wasn’t worse, which is enough to take to the board.

我知道我已经在我应该在的地方，而且我知道我并不更糟，这足以向董事会提出要求。

Because I thought Carlsen is of the level of Kramnik and Topalov, so playing against him gives me a good sense of how they’ll play, how the games will materialize, and so on.

因为我认为卡尔森具有克拉姆尼克和托帕洛夫的水平，所以与他交手让我很好地了解他们将如何比赛，比赛将如何实现，等等。

He did that both times.

他两次都这么做了。

He didn’t help much during the match, I think once in a while.

我认为他在比赛中并没有提供太多帮助。

Nielsen was obviously in touch with him.

尼尔森显然与他保持着联系。

They would chat on Skype or whatever, and he might give an impression, but it wasn’t more than that.

他们会通过 Skype 或其他方式聊天，他可能会给人留下印象，但仅此而已。

Kasparov would call in a couple of times.

卡斯帕罗夫会打来几次电话。

He gave me some of his notes in specific openings.

他在特定的开头给了我一些他的笔记。

He said, “Look, they’re outdated, but for what it’s worth, here they are.

他说：“看，它们已经过时了，但不管怎样，它们就在这里。

You can check them with modern analysis and so on.

你可以用现代分析等来检查它们。

That’s fine.”

那就好。”

Kramnik was the heaviest.

克拉姆尼克是最重的。

We had come to the conclusion that Kramnik’s approach against Topalov hadn’t been a bad approach.

我们得出的结论是，克拉姆尼克对付托帕洛夫的方法并不是一个糟糕的方法。

We were copying the Catalan, what we call the Elista variation of the Slav Defense, and we were copying many aspects of how he played that match.

我们复制了加泰罗尼亚语，我们称之为斯拉夫防守的埃利斯塔变体，我们复制了他在那场比赛中打球方式的许多方面。

The idea was, you are a better natural player than me, so you should try to steer the game through to Slav’s more harmless — which is how we came under the Kramnik approach — more harmless waters.

这个想法是，你是一个比我更好的天生玩家，所以你应该尝试将游戏引导到斯拉夫更无害的地方——这就是我们采用克拉姆尼克方法的方式——更无害的水域。

Play sensible chess, and don’t get into forced lines that much, and you’ll probably have the easier time of it.

下合理的棋，不要过多地陷入强迫性的局面，你可能会过得更轻松。

More of a philosophical thing.

更多的是哲学上的事情。

Kramnik called Kasimdzhanov after the fourth game, and he said, “I’m flattered that you are trying to copy my openings, but you’re doing it very badly.

第四局结束后，克拉姆尼克给卡西姆扎诺夫打了电话，他说：“我很荣幸你试图复制我的开局，但你做得非常糟糕。

Can I help?” Literally, that’s what he said, which is the funniest story.

我可以帮忙吗？从字面上看，这就是他所说的，这是最有趣的故事。

We said, “Of course you can help.” I was amazed how dedicated he was, since he was just doing this on his own thing.

我们说：“你当然可以帮忙。”我很惊讶他如此专注，因为他只是在做自己的事情。

He could have easily said, “I’ll help you for an hour.” I would accept it.

他本可以轻松地说：“我帮你一个小时。”我会接受的。

“I’ll look at your notes for 10 minutes.” I would accept it.

“我会看你的笔记 10 分钟。”我会接受的。

There were days he sat with the team till 5:00 in the morning, working all night.

有时他会和团队一起工作到凌晨 5:00，通宵工作。

He had just gone to Baku to play an event.

他刚刚去巴库参加一场比赛。

He played there.

他在那里打球。

Then at night, he would work with us.

然后到了晚上，他就会和我们一起工作。

For the team, it was great because we were getting his insights on his opening.

对于团队来说，这很棒，因为我们得到了他对开局的见解。

We realized there was so much we had missed.

我们意识到我们错过了太多。

Every game, he basically became my fifth second from game five till the final game.

每场比赛，从第五场比赛到最后一场比赛，他基本上都是我的第五秒。

I couldn’t possibly thank him enough.

我对他感激不尽。

I’d just beaten him two years ago in the match.

两年前我刚刚在比赛中击败了他。

Again, it was his ability to put that aside that impressed me.

再次，让我印象深刻的是他抛开这些的能力。

We had spoken a little bit the previous year about his newborn daughter, and it broke the ice, but I was still feeling awkward.

去年我们曾谈论过他刚出生的女儿，这打破了僵局，但我仍然感到尴尬。

I thought it might take a bit of time for both of us to move on, but in fact, he seemed to be able to take this very well.

我以为我们俩可能需要一些时间才能继续前进，但事实上，他似乎能够很好地接受这一点。

So, they all helped me in different ways.

所以，他们都以不同的方式帮助了我。

It was nice.

很好。

When you get that kind of feedback, it of course gives you a hell of a lot of confidence.

当你得到这样的反馈时，它当然会给你很大的信心。

On the 2013 game against Aronian

2013 年对阵阿罗尼安的比赛

Eventually, by elimination, I realized it must be bishop c5.

最终，通过排除，我意识到它一定是主教c5。

There’s nothing else.

没有别的了。

Once I started to look at bishop c5, it started to look good to me.

当我开始关注 c5 主教时，我开始觉得它不错。

Then it closes very fast.

然后它关闭得非常快。

It’s like finding out 80 percent of the map, and then the rest fills in very fast.

这就像找到了地图的 80%，然后剩下的部分很快就被填满了。

It gets accelerated.

它会加速。

Aronian was a bit shocked because he had not given it a lot of attention.

阿罗尼安有些震惊，因为他并没有给予太多的关注。

It was very courageous on his part to even get here because I had prepared this for a match against Gelfand, and the guy lets me and basically says, “Show me what you’ve got.

他来到这里是非常勇敢的，因为我已经为对阵盖尔范德的比赛做好了准备，他让我这么做，基本上是说，“让我看看你有什么。

Show me what you and your team spent a month on.” It’s brave, but it’s also irresponsible unless you have checked it yourself very thoroughly.

让我看看你和你的团队一个月都做了什么。”这是勇敢的，但也是不负责任的，除非你自己彻底检查过。

He seems to be slightly flippant about it.

他对此似乎有些轻率。

Anyway, after bishop e2, the rest played itself.

无论如何，在主教e2之后，剩下的就自然而然了。

For me, bishop c5 took 25 minutes.

对我来说，主教c5花了25分钟。

I don’t remember — knight d5 might’ve taken me five minutes, but more because I was double-checking rather than anything.

我不记得了——《knight d5》可能花了我五分钟，但更多是因为我在仔细检查而不是任何事情。

But this came effortlessly because already, we are talking of this knight has to support this one.

但这毫不费力，因为我们已经在谈论这个骑士必须支持这个骑士。

The queen and bishop are going to flood into d4, knight f2 check is going to win — all these little dots.

后和主教将涌入 d4，骑士 f2 检查将获胜  -  所有这些小点。

While this is maybe the most spectacular move, it’s the less difficult move to find, especially once you have done this.

虽然这可能是最壮观的举动，但它是较不难找到的举动，尤其是当你完成此动作后。

On seeing short and long lines in chess

关于国际象棋中的短线和长线

The natural players miss exceptions because what looks good to them, or they happen to stumble on one position where what looks good isn’t good.

天生的玩家会错过例外，因为对他们来说看起来不错的事情，或者他们碰巧发现了一个看起来不错但实际上并不好的情况。

It hurts them.

这伤害了他们。

Caruana tends to miss that less often because he is not .

卡鲁阿纳很少会错过这一点，因为他不是。

.

。

.

。

In fact, Caruana’s approach — you could almost exaggerate and say it’s closer to a computer than many other humans.

事实上，卡鲁阿纳的方法 ——你几乎可以夸张地说，它比许多其他人类更接近计算机。

Of course, he is 1 percent of the way closer, but it doesn’t matter.

当然，他离目标还差百分之一，但这并不重要。

There are players who approach chess in a more systematic way.

有些棋手以更系统的方式学习国际象棋。

They’re the ones who tend to find exceptional ideas and things like that because of the way they don’t rule out stuff just on dogmatic grounds or something like that.

他们是那些倾向于发现特殊想法和类似事物的人，因为他们不会仅仅基于教条或类似的东西来排除某些东西。

But we are talking very small differences.

但我们谈论的是非常小的差异。

I think Caruana’s understanding is much closer to, let’s say, Carlsen’s than they think.

我认为卡鲁阿纳的理解比他们想象的更接近卡尔森的理解。

His approach is to calculate everything and look for very specific solutions.

他的方法是计算一切并寻找非常具体的解决方案。

Carlsen’s, as he says, “The hand will make the move.” You just know where the pieces go, and then you don’t need the details.

正如卡尔森所说，“手将做出行动。”您只需要知道各个部分的去向，然后就不需要详细信息了。

On preparing for a chess match

关于准备国际象棋比赛

I would think the maximum level you could do it at is to choose the kind of opening which favors you the most intuitively and say, “From what I know of my opponent, this is the position where he’s fidgeting uncomfortably in his chair.” Once you’ve chosen the opening, you hope that insight actually plays out.

我认为你能做到的最高水平是选择一种最有利于你直觉的开局，并说：“据我对对手的了解，这就是他在椅子上坐立不安的位置。”一旦你选择了开头，你就会希望这种洞察力能够真正发挥作用。

At least for me, I’ve never been able to target much more.

至少对我来说，我从来没有能够设定更多的目标。

Like I just said, when I was playing Topalov, I used my insight into saying, “Well, these openings will work for me, and he’ll get impatient.

就像我刚才说的，当我扮演托帕洛夫时，我用我的洞察力说：“好吧，这些空缺对我有用，他会变得不耐烦。

He’ll try to do something active.

他会尝试做一些积极的事情。

Maybe I can punish him.” But once I’ve done that, the rest are just long lines, and I can’t use that insight anymore within the games.

或许我可以惩罚他。”但一旦我做到了这一点，剩下的就只是排长队了，我不能再在游戏中使用这种洞察力了。

You’ll have flashes of this at most, but chess is actually mostly long variations.

你最多只会看到这样的情况，但国际象棋实际上大多是长变体。

During a match, even in very critical moments, I’ll be thinking what I can have for dinner, what I should have done yesterday, oh, I met that jerk yesterday, and this kind of stuff.

比赛的时候，哪怕是很关键的时刻，我也会想晚饭吃什么，昨天应该做什么，哦，昨天遇到了那个混蛋，诸如此类的事情。

Your brain wanders off.

你的大脑走神了。

It’s almost like taking your foot off the gas.

这几乎就像把脚从油门上松开一样。

Your brain wants to wander off for a while.

你的大脑想要走神一会儿。

You let it, and then you come back.

你放手了，然后你就回来了。

Or you keep one part focused on what’s happening, but while your opponent is thinking you can wander off.

或者，你的一部分注意力集中在正在发生的事情上，但当你的对手认为你可以走开时。

Whenever somebody tells me, “I don’t know how you concentrate for seven hours,” I understand that they don’t know how we play chess, or that they haven’t played chess themselves because we do not concentrate for seven hours.

每当有人告诉我，“我不知道你如何集中七个小时”，我明白他们不知道我们如何下棋，或者他们自己没有下过棋，因为我们没有集中七个小时。

Very few people do it.

很少有人这样做。

I would think even the brain simply goes on strike periodically and then comes back.

我认为即使是大脑也只是周期性地罢工然后回来。

I think that’s how it works.

我认为这就是它的运作方式。

Then, when you’re stuck in it, it’s very hard to see how to get out of it.

然后，当你陷入其中时，很难知道如何摆脱它。

In most cases, at least in my experience, the way to get out of it is to stop thinking about how to solve it and almost lighten yourself and get back to playing a normal game for normal reasons.

在大多数情况下，至少根据我的经验，摆脱困境的方法就是停止思考如何解决它，让自己轻松起来，并出于正常原因回到玩正常游戏。

You’d think that method could be refined, and you could apply it systematically, but if it did, nobody would have slumps anymore in form.

你会认为这个方法可以改进，你可以系统地应用它，但如果这样的话，没有人会再出现形式上的下滑。

There is something clearly that we can’t quite pick up on.

显然有一些我们无法完全理解的事情。

It’s a staleness that gets into your game.

这是一种进入游戏的陈旧感。

It’s probably an accumulation.

这大概就是一种积累吧。

If you’re doing too well for too long, others have been working nonstop trying to understand you.

如果你在太长的时间内表现得太好，其他人就会一直在不停地努力试图理解你。

At some point, without you or them realizing it, the gap is closed.

在某些时候，在你或他们没有意识到的情况下，差距就缩小了。

Then you’re encountering more resistance.

然后你会遇到更多的阻力。

You’re doing what worked perfectly before, but you’re encountering more resistance, and you can’t see why.

你正在做以前完美的事情，但你遇到了更多的阻力，而且你不明白为什么。

Your opponents don’t understand why they’re not losing, but they suddenly think, “Hey, this worked out better for me.” Somehow the gap closes, and the time has come for you to move on, try something else, bring some fresh perspective.

你的对手不明白为什么他们没有输，但他们突然想，“嘿，这对我来说效果更好。”不知何故，差距缩小了，是时候让你继续前进，尝试其他事情，带来一些新的视角了。

On Monty Python

关于 Monty Python

There’s always this one situation which is so absurd that you just can’t stop laughing.

总有一种情况很荒谬，让你忍不住笑。

At some point, I was laughing like a person who could not stop.

有时候，我笑得像个停不下来的人。

I was choking almost.

我几乎要窒息了。

That’s when I knew, so I would have to say Fawlty Towers is as good.

那时我就​​知道了，所以我不得不说弗尔蒂塔也一样好。

There are lines which are fantastic.

有些台词非常棒。

On preparing openings

关于准备空缺

The problem in preparation is not whether it’s detailed.

准备的问题不在于是否详细。

The problem is whether you can believe in it.

问题是你能不能相信。

If you have not checked it 100 percent, it’s worthless.

如果你没有百分百检查它，它就毫无价值。

It’s like a 99 percent guarantee before you go into the operation.

这就像在您进行操作之前提供 99% 的保证。

You want to have a 100 percent guarantee, right?

您想要 100% 的保证，对吗？

99 percent is simply not good enough.

99% 根本不够好。

That’s the problem with opening preparation as well, that the computer allows you to question everything, every new version, every new program, every new piece of hardware.

这也是开放准备的问题，计算机允许你质疑一切，每一个新版本，每一个新程序，每一个新硬件。

Each one of those things can drive it.

这些事情中的每一件都可以驱动它。

Every six months or a year, you have to start all over again, cleaning your stuff.

每六个月或一年，你就必须重新开始，清理你的东西。

On the other hand, one of the great joys in chess research is to come to an opening that you’ve not seen in five years.

另一方面，国际象棋研究的最大乐趣之一就是找到五年来从未见过的机会。

That first day, you’re discovering everything new.

第一天，你就会发现一切新事物。

Every single line you refute and clean up, and you feel like you’ve cleaned your entire house of clutter, and you feel wonderful.

你反驳和清理的每一行，你感觉你已经清理了整个房子的杂物，你感觉棒极了。

It’s a double-edged sword, I will concede that, but it’s a pain in the neck when you want to rely on something.

我承认，这是一把双刃剑，但当你想要依赖某样东西时，它会让人头疼。

You know the famous quote of Koechner, right?

你知道 Koechner 的名言，对吗？

He told Aaron Pickett, “The King’s Indian is not an opening.

他告诉亚伦·皮克特：“国王的印第安人不是一个空缺。

It’s a disease.”

这是一种疾病。”

People come to parts of the King’s Indian that they like.

人们来到国王印第安人喜欢的地方。

The King’s Indian that are lines that you find difficult to play, but if you come in from a Grünfeld move order, and white does something against anti-Grünfeld, and you swing from there back to the King’s Indian; or you come from a Benoni move order, and you get into the King’s Indian; or even, you put the bishop on e7 and rotate it this way, that way — King’s Indian concepts turn out to be very, very dynamic and healthy, even if you’re not getting to it in the same structure opening.

国王印第安人是你觉得很难玩的线，但如果你是从格林菲尔德走棋顺序进来的，而白棋做了一些对抗反格林菲尔德的事情，你就从那里回到国王印第安人；或者你来自伯诺尼搬迁命令，并且你进入了国王印第安人；或者甚至，你把主教放在e7上并以这种方式旋转它，这样 - King的印度概念变得非常非常有活力和健康，即使你没有在相同的结构开口中达到它。

So, King’s Indian players have found a way to get their King’s Indian fix for the week without having to go down the old main line.

因此，King's Indian 玩家找到了一种方法，无需走旧的主线即可获得本周的 King's Indian 修复。

That’s how it goes.

事情就是这样。

Computers will contradict themselves every couple of years, so maybe the pendulum has swung too far this side.

计算机每隔几年就会出现矛盾，所以也许钟摆已经向这边摆得太远了。

New versions, we are never going to catch up with computers.

新版本，我们永远赶不上计算机。

But for playing amongst ourselves, this is completely new territory, and there’s a lot of scope for creativity and everything we used to look for.

但对于我们自己之间的游戏来说，这是一个全新的领域，这里有很大的创造力空间和我们过去寻找的一切。

It’s a variant with a lot of promise, maybe the one chess players are most comfortable with.

这是一种充满希望的变体，也许是国际象棋棋手最喜欢的一种。

However, in the meantime, I have played No Castling a few times.

然而，与此同时，我也玩过几次“无王位”游戏。

That turns out to be fascinating.

事实证明这很有趣。

The first time I sat with my computer, and I had to play knight f3, rook g1, and repeated four corners, all four rooks and knights so that white couldn’t castle anymore, and then switch on the engine and analyze openings like this.

我第一次坐在电脑前，我必须玩骑士f3，车g1，并重复四个角，所有四个车和骑士，这样白棋就不能再城堡了，然后打开引擎并像这样分析开局。

I realized that almost every opening can be reevaluated if your king can’t castle.

我意识到，如果你的国王无法城堡，几乎每个空缺都可以重新评估。

Everywhere the right plan turns out to be h4, h5, rook h4 thing, except the ones where it’s not.

在任何地方，正确的计划都是 h4、h5、rook h4 的东西，除了那些不是的。

There are no general rules yet, or we have not come that far, so we find every little detail.

目前还没有一般规则，或者我们还没有走到这一步，所以我们找到了每一个小细节。

Now, there are lots of other versions that are coming up, and you can have as many as you dream of.

现在，还有许多其他版本即将推出，您可以拥有任意数量的版本。

You can have pawns moving sideways, pawns capturing straight and moving diagonally.

您可以让 pawn 向侧面移动、pawn 直线捕获并沿对角线移动。

You can have every variant you want.

您可以拥有您想要的每种变体。

You program it into the computer and let it play a million games and see what pops out.

你将它编程到计算机中，让它玩一百万个游戏，看看会出现什么结果。

This may be a solution for the distant future, but for the moment, chess looks healthy enough, especially if you vary.

这可能是遥远未来的解决方案，但就目前而言，国际象棋看起来足够健康，特别是如果你改变的话。

People who have played too much classical chess have a round of faster controls, and then when you’ve done too many faster controls, you go back to classical.

玩过太多古典象棋的人会进行一轮更快的控制，然后当你进行了太多更快的控制时，你又回到了古典。

If you keep varying like this, that’s one thing that keeps the game moving along.

如果你继续这样变化，那就是让游戏继续前进的一件事。

The second thing that works very well is, for instance, what they do in Tata Steel, which is to have a mixed field.

第二个非常有效的事情是，例如，他们在塔塔钢铁公司所做的事情，就是拥有一个混合领域。

Not all super-prepared top GMs, but a mixture of very courageous young juniors with top GMs.

并不是所有的顶级总经理都准备充分，而是由非常勇敢的年轻后辈和顶级总经理组成。

You have that mix that also leads to a lot of unpredictability.

这种混合也会导致很多不可预测性。

If you keep moving around, you change the format, change the variant, change the time control, change this, change that, you just keep shuffling, we can go on for quite some time.

如果你不断地移动，你改变格式，改变变体，改变时间控制，改变这个，改变那个，你只要不断地洗牌，我们就可以持续很长一段时间。

But I don’t think that classical chess will disappear.

但我不认为古典国际象棋会消失。

It’s just that it used to be 100 percent of chess.

只是它曾经是100%的国际象棋。

Then for the last couple of decades, it’s been about 80 percent of chess.

然后在过去的几十年里，它占据了国际象棋的 80% 左右。

Now I would say it’s closer to 30, 40 percent of chess, which leaves the other variants fighting with 60 percent, the other time controls fighting with 60 percent.

现在我想说的是，它接近国际象棋的 30%、40%，这使得其他变体以 60% 进行战斗，其他时间控制以 60% 进行战斗。

It’s a question of the mix.

这是一个混合的问题。

There will always be some role for having a lot of time to think and find interesting stuff, but all the time is very hard, especially given modern preparation.

有大量时间思考和发现有趣的东西总是有一定作用的，但所有的时间都非常困难，特别是考虑到现代的准备。

In fact, many years ago, in 2011 in Tata Steel, he made a winner speech, and I was surprised the way he said.

事实上，很多年前，2011年，他在塔塔钢铁公司发表了获奖感言，我对他说话的方式感到惊讶。

He said, “It’s so wonderful to be in Holland where we’re appreciated for our chess.

他说：“来到荷兰真是太棒了，我们的国际象棋受到赞赏。

In the US, nobody would care,” or something like that.

在美国，没有人会关心，”或者类似的话。

He did this as the winner in the closing speech.

他在闭幕词中以获胜者的身份做到了这一点。

I thought, “Well, quite a strange thing to say.” If you had kept that thought in the background, now he’s got the adulation he wants.

我想：“嗯，这话说得很奇怪。”如果你把这个想法放在心里，现在他就得到了他想要的奉承。

In fact, he seems to crave it.

事实上，他似乎很渴望它。

He goes back and does a recap every day, and things like that.

他每天都会回去回顾，诸如此类。

He really seems to want it.

看来他真的很想要。

What I think is helping him is playing blitz tournaments nonstop online.

我认为对他有帮助的是不间断地在线参加闪电战锦标赛。

That allows him to keep there, and it might be the best way to train for a modern computerized opening preparation era, where there’s so little to do with preparation because the computer solves everything, but you get to test every concept a million times over the board.

这让他能够留在那里，这可能是为现代计算机化开局准备时代进行训练的最佳方式，在这个时代，准备工作几乎没有什么用处，因为计算机解决了一切，但你可以对每个概念进行一百万次测试。

That’s why he’s so good at it.

这就是为什么他如此擅长。

That’s why all the best players now are playing these online blitz events.

这就是为什么现在所有最好的玩家都在参加这些在线闪电战赛事。

You can put me on the spot and say, “Well, if you think that’s the case, why aren’t you doing it?” I haven’t got round.

你可以让我陷入困境并说：“好吧，如果你认为是这样的话，你为什么不这样做呢？”我还没来得及。

I do some training online, but I don’t feel like sitting from midnight till 3:00 in the morning playing online blitz, these Tuesday events, and so on.

我在网上做了一些训练，但我不想从午夜坐到凌晨 3:00 玩在线闪电战、周二的活动等等。

It’s a big time commitment, is what I’m trying to say.

这是一个重大的时间承诺，这就是我想说的。

I could very easily see myself doing it, and I’ve done versions of it over the last couple years.

我可以很容易地看到自己在做这件事，而且在过去的几年里我已经做了一些版本。

I did a lot of online coaching.

我做了很多在线辅导。

Lots of my talks that I used to give for companies, I do online as well nowadays.

我以前为公司做的很多演讲现在也在网上进行。

I’ve done versions of it.

我已经完成了它的版本。

I could see myself doing that, especially commentary.

我可以看到自己正在这样做，尤其是评论。

How difficult is it, instead of going to a tournament and doing commentary from there, just to sit in your room and do it?

不去参加比赛并在那里做评论，只是坐在你的房间里做这件事有多困难？

It’s very easy.

这很容易。

That I could see.

我能看到。

The other bit — probably I’m just a bit old.

另外一点——可能是我年纪有点大了。

You just have to know specific reasons, and you’ll just have to get into the details.

你只需要知道具体的原因，并且只需要了解细节。

He’s right about that.

他是对的。

That’s probably a cry from a person who’s having to prepare this stuff all the time.

这可能是一个必须一直准备这些东西的人的呼喊。

Anyway, he’s right.

无论如何，他是对的。

Chess nowadays — it’s about finding out exceptions to everything.

如今的国际象棋 ——在于找出一切事物的例外。

That’s where a lot of the growth is as a chess player because all of us — we are hardwired to think these things are good, these things are bad.

这就是作为一名国际象棋棋手的成长所在，因为我们所有人 — 我们生来就认为这些事情是好的，这些事情是坏的。

But imagine that you now have to wander in the field of everything you thought was bad and realize that half of it might be good.

但想象一下，你现在必须在你认为不好的一切领域里徘徊，并意识到其中一半可能是好的。

That’s where we see ourselves now.

这就是我们现在看到的自己。

Rook g1, by the way, predates AlphaZero, and it predates modern engines.

顺便说一句，Rook g1 早于 AlphaZero，也早于现代发动机。

We’re talking at least 15, 20 years.

我们谈论的是至少 15、20 年。

Bishop d2 on move six — that is such nonsense.

主教 d2 第六步 ——这真是胡说八道。

Even when the computer is running, I think this is nonsense.

即使计算机正在运行，我也认为这是无稽之谈。

The fact that — especially with a computer — it doesn’t lose on the spot tells me nothing.

事实上 ——尤其是对于计算机来说——它不会当场丢失，这一事实告诉我什么都没有。

This is nonsense.

这是无稽之谈。

There are people who play it, and then next thing you know, there’s theory building up.

有人玩它，然后你知道，理论就建立起来了。

On the Vishy Anand production function

关于 Vishy Anand 生产函数

When I did all that, I enjoyed myself.

当我做这一切的时候，我很享受。

Then I would say, “Okay, now for four months, I’m not going to play anything.” Much longer break than before.

然后我会说，“好吧，现在四个月了，我不会玩任何东西。”休息时间比以前长很多。

Also, I’m living in India more or less the whole time when I’m not playing.

另外，当我不打球的时候，我或多或少都住在印度。

That’s changed a lot.

这改变了很多。

Some of it is family.

其中一些是家庭。

My son is growing up, so you also want to prioritize what you’re doing with your time, and so on.

我的儿子正在长大，所以你也要优先考虑你正在做的事情，等等。

I really enjoy the few tournaments that I play.

我真的很喜欢我参加的几场比赛。

When I play these rapid and blitzes and I have these one or two events in the year, four or five months before leading up to them, I start training again.

当我打这些快速赛和闪电赛时，一年中我会参加一两次比赛，在比赛之前四五个月，我会再次开始训练。

Just to get back in this frame of mind where chess is not just some philosophical thing where you can do this and you can do that.

只是为了回到这样的心态，国际象棋不仅仅是一些你可以做这个、你可以做那个的哲学事物。

It’s concrete moves, like MVL said.

正如 MVL 所说，这是具体的举措。

The most important skill in chess is, if I was sitting at a board now with the clock ticking, what would I make in this position?

国际象棋中最重要的技能是，如果我现在坐在棋盘上，时钟滴答作响，我在这个位置会下什么棋？

Then suddenly, the infinite variety of choices you have becomes irrelevant.

然后突然之间，你拥有的无限多种选择就变得无关紧要了。

You have to make only one move.

您只需迈出一步。

How do you switch to that frame of mind?

你如何转变到这种心态？

I try to stick there, but I really love analyzing and working on chess.

我试着坚持下去，但我真的很喜欢分析和研究国际象棋。

And maybe even, just like for Hikaru, having something else fill part of your life allows you to come back to chess with much more enthusiasm, these long breaks.

甚至，就像光一样，让其他事情占据你生活的一部分可以让你带着更多的热情回到国际象棋，这些长时间的休息。

Then, when I get back to chess, I’m much more enthusiastic about playing, and I look forward to it.

然后，当我回到国际象棋时，我对下棋更加热情，而且我很期待。

That might be a huge fact as well.

这也可能是一个巨大的事实。

When I lose, I can’t imagine anyone in the world who loses as badly as I do inside.

当我失败时，我无法想象世界上有谁会像我内心一样输得那么惨。

In fact, it’s gotten even worse because as you get on, you think, “I should have known that.

事实上，情况变得更糟，因为当你继续前进时，你会想：“我应该知道这一点。

I should have known that.

我应该知道这一点。

I should have known not to do that.

我早该知道不要那样做。

What is the point of doing this a thousand times and not learning anything?” You get angry with yourself much more.

这样做一千次却什么也没学到有什么意义呢？”你对自己更加生气。

I hate losing much more, even than before.

我比以前更讨厌失去。

It’s quite hard for a chess player to quit and switch to something else.

对于一名国际象棋棋手来说，放弃并转向其他职业是相当困难的。

They always have this time lag.

他们总是有这个时间差。

I was quite surprised to see when Kenneth Rogoff —

我很惊讶地看到肯尼思·罗格夫——

Just in chess, the only skill which a top chess player has to have, really, is the sense that something is going wrong.

就国际象棋而言，顶级棋手必须具备的唯一技能实际上就是对出现问题的感觉。

That’s a visual thing, because with very few details, you suddenly think, “Now I feel uncomfortable, there’s something wrong here.” That’s one of the most important skills you can have in chess.

这是一个视觉上的事情，因为只有很少的细节，你突然会想，“现在我感觉不舒服，这里有问题。”这是国际象棋中最重要的技能之一。

Besides probably just the usual mix, bit of memory, good memory, at least for things that I’m interested in; ability to focus on one thing and then keep at it.

除了通常的组合之外，一点记忆力，良好的记忆力，至少对于我感兴趣的事情；专注于一件事并坚持下去的能力。

What I’ve realized is that they’re quite strong in a way that I’m amazed, maybe because for me, losing hurts so much more.

我意识到他们在某种程度上非常强大，这让我感到惊讶，也许是因为对我来说，失败更痛苦。

I can no longer understand people who are relaxed about losing.

我再也无法理解那些对失败感到轻松的人了。

Maybe I was once more relaxed, I don’t know.

也许我再次放松了，我不知道。

Pragga and Gukesh both have taken some of the tough times recently quite well and come out of it.

Pragga 和 Gukesh 最近都很好地度过了一些困难时期并摆脱了困境。

Now they’re both going gangbusters, and that’s great, but they’ve had difficult times as well.

现在他们都表现出色，这很好，但他们也经历过困难时期。

There are things I look for on the chessboard, a sense that they understand a lot of stuff without having to .

我在棋盘上寻找一些东西，一种他们不需要理解就能理解很多东西的感觉。

.

。

.

。

Just like I mentioned earlier, they know where the pieces go.

就像我之前提到的，他们知道碎片的去向。

If I look at their games, I can quickly get a sense of which area they’re focused in.

如果我看他们的比赛，我就能很快了解他们专注于哪个领域。

Some of them have no understanding of chess at all, but they have amazing sporting qualities, which is that they’re tenacious, they’re able to keep resisting.

他们中的一些人根本不懂国际象棋，但他们却有着令人惊叹的体育品质，那就是他们顽强，能够不断抵抗。

You can see that they don’t have this dip of being annoyed with themselves about the position and therefore their performance goes down.

你可以看到，他们并没有因为这个职位而对自己感到恼火，因此他们的表现会下降。

If anything, they are still finding only moves.

如果说有什么不同的话，那就是他们仍然只找到了动作。

They’re still hanging in there.

他们还挂在那里。

Some things like this will alert me to some sporting qualities, but the chess qualities, I think, I look for first.

像这样的事情会提醒我一些体育素质，但我认为，我首先寻找的是国际象棋素质。

If not, I wonder, “They don’t have this.

如果没有，我想知道，“他们没有这个。

What could they possibly bring to the table that compensates for it?” Then I realize, ah, they have these other sporting qualities, maybe even their fitness, their ability to hang in there, things like that.

他们能带来什么来弥补这一点？”然后我意识到，啊，他们有其他的运动素质，甚至可能是他们的身体素质，他们坚持下去的能力，诸如此类的东西。

Special thanks to Nabeel Qureshi for his help with the video and transcript.

特别感谢 Nabeel Qureshi 对视频和文字记录的帮助。