Vaughn Smith on Life as a Hyperpolyglot (Ep. 159)
Hello, everyone.
大家好。
Welcome back to Conversations with Tyler.
欢迎回到与泰勒对话。
Today, I am honored to be here with Vaughn Smith, who is a hyperpolyglot, and he lives in nearby Maryland.
今天，我很荣幸能和沃恩·史密斯一起来到这里，他是一位精通多种语言的人，他住在附近的马里兰州。
Vaughn, welcome.
沃恩，欢迎。
Thank you.
谢谢。
How many different languages do you dream in?
你的梦想有多少种不同的语言？
Dream?
梦？
Let’s see.
让我们来看看。
I think I’ve had dreams in about 10 languages or so.
我想我已经用大约 10 种语言做过梦想。
What would those be?
那些会是什么？
Recently, I was dreaming in Czech.
最近，我在捷克做梦。
I think I had some Latvian words sprinkled in there.
我想我里面撒了一些拉脱维亚语的词。
I dream in Nahuatl, Spanish, Russian, English of course, some others.
我用纳瓦特尔语、西班牙语、俄语、当然还有英语，还有其他一些语言做梦。
I can’t exactly remember.
我不太记得了。
It might have been a long time ago.
可能已经是很久以前的事了。
Slovak also.
斯洛伐克也。
Oh, yes, I did.
哦，是的，我做到了。
I had a dream in Slovak.
我在斯洛伐克做了一个梦。
I was speaking to somebody in Slovak — in my dream, of course.
我正在和一个斯洛伐克语的人说话——当然是在我的梦里。
That’s about all I can remember right now.
我现在能记得的就这么多了。
To varying degrees, how many languages would you think you have at least a beginner’s grasp of?
在不同程度上，您认为您至少掌握了多少种语言？
At least a beginner’s grasp of?
至少初学者掌握了？
Yes.
是的。
That would be about 36 or so.
那大约是36左右。
And fluent in?
并且流利？
Fluent in about eight.
八级左右流利。
About eight.
大约八点。
What’s your history with being a hyperpolyglot?
您拥有多语言能力的经历是什么？
Did you wake one morning, and you’re five years old, and you just start learning other languages?
你是否有一天早上醒来，发现自己五岁了，刚刚开始学习其他语言？
Or you realized in school you were good at this?
或者你在学校意识到自己擅长这个？
How did this happen?
这是怎么发生的？
Slowly, a realization.
慢慢的，恍然大悟。
I grew up bilingual when I was very young because my —
我很小的时候就用双语长大，因为我的 ——
English and Spanish.
英语和西班牙语。
English and Spanish.
英语和西班牙语。
My mother would take us to Mexico and learn Spanish there and come back.
我妈妈会带我们去墨西哥，在那里学习西班牙语，然后回来。
As far as I remember, being bilingual.
据我所知，是双语的。
And then, I think when I was about, let’s say 11, I took an interest in learning French.
然后，我想当我大约 11 岁的时候，我对学习法语产生了兴趣。
When I was about 13 in school, I started learning German, just on my own.
当我 13 岁左右上学时，我开始自学德语。
This was not directed by the school.
这不是学校指示的。
You just did it.
你刚刚做到了。
No, it was not directed by the school.
不，这不是学校指示的。
It started with my mother having material in French and my mother’s fascination, herself, with the French language.
这始于我母亲拥有法语材料以及我母亲本人对法语的迷恋。
Did they make you take language classes in school?
他们让你在学校上语言课吗？
Was that a form of torture, or you enjoyed it?
这是一种折磨，还是你很享受？
No one made me take any classes.
没有人强迫我参加任何课程。
I didn’t take any classes.
我没有上任何课。
I simply studied out of my own interest.
我只是出于自己的兴趣而学习。
Was there this moment in your life where you think, “Well, I’m going to do this as a thing”?
在你生命中的某个时刻，你是否会想：“好吧，我要把这件事当作一件事来做”？
Or you just kept on going, and here you are dreaming and speaking however many languages?
或者你只是继续前进，而你却在这里梦想着并说着多种语言？
When I was about 15, leaving Alice Deal Junior High School, going to Wilson — that’s when I decided, “Okay, I want to do this.
当我大约 15 岁的时候，离开爱丽丝迪尔初中，前往威尔逊学校——就在那时我决定，“好吧，我想这样做。
I want to learn more languages, and this is going to be my thing.
我想学习更多语言，这将是我的事。
This is going to be something that I’m good at.
这将是我擅长的事情。
I can see that.
我看得出来。
I can learn it pretty quickly.” My peers are telling me, wow, I’ve got good pronunciation.
我可以很快学会。”我的同龄人告诉我，哇，我的发音很好。
I can memorize the words and the vocabulary pretty fast.
我可以很快地记住单词和词汇。
That was the turning point.
那是转折点。
Which languages, of those you know, do you think are best for expressions of humor?
在您认识的语言中，您认为哪些语言最适合表达幽默？
Expressions of humor — definitely Spanish, Russian.
幽默的表达方式——肯定是西班牙语、俄语。
Hmm, to a degree, Finnish.
嗯，某种程度上，芬兰语。
I think those three.
我认为是这三个。
What makes Spanish and Russian good for humor?
西班牙语和俄语为何具有幽默感？
Spanish — where we are from, particularly the Mexican Spanish variety that we speak, which is from Orizaba, Veracruz state — it’s a very vulgar and a very colloquial Spanish.
西班牙语——我们来自哪里，尤其是我们所说的墨西哥西班牙语变体，来自韦拉克鲁斯州奥里萨巴——这是一种非常粗俗、非常口语化的西班牙语。
Every other sentence that anybody says on a regular daily basis is some sort of insult or a pun on something or a metaphor.
任何人每天说的每一句话都是某种侮辱、双关语或隐喻。
It’s a very rich language in that sense.
从这个意义上说，这是一种非常丰富的语言。
And Russian?
还有俄语？
Russian?
俄语？
The Russian friends that I learned from are also very witty, and they enjoy telling jokes all the time.
我认识的俄罗斯朋友也很机智，总是喜欢讲笑话。
Mucha, what makes Nahuatl such a beautiful language?
Mucha，纳瓦特尔语为何如此美丽？
Nahuatl — I think it’s just the sound, the way it flows.
Nahuatl — 我认为这只是声音，它流动的方式。
It’s a very quickly spoken language.
这是一种说得很快的语言。
When I’m listening to it, when I speak it, it just puts me in the place.
当我听它、说它时，它就把我带到了那个地方。
And the place where it’s spoken is a very beautiful, lush, mountainous, natural, bucolic place.
它所说的地方是一个非常美丽、郁郁葱葱、多山、自然、田园风光的地方。
I’ve never spoken Nahuatl that associates with someplace boring.
我从来没有说过纳瓦特尔语会让人联想到某个无聊的地方。
There’s nothing boring about it.
没有什么无聊的。
The people are very friendly when they speak the Nahuatl language.
人们讲纳瓦特尔语时非常友好。
I think those things give me the picture of Nahuatl being beautiful.
我认为这些东西给了我纳瓦特尔人美丽的画面。
It also has this very rich civilization behind it, which is not in every way still there today.
它背后还有非常丰富的文明，但今天这种文明已不复存在。
Unlike a lot of languages spoken only by, say, 2 million people, it was the language of an empire, right?
与许多只有 200 万人使用的语言不同，它是一个帝国的语言，对吧？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Could you say something for us in Nahuatl?
您能用纳瓦特尔语为我们说些什么吗？
“Since I was a young kid, I would go to Mexico, and my mother does not speak Nahuatl.
“当我还是个小孩子的时候，我就会去墨西哥，而我的母亲不会说纳瓦特尔语。
Then, 20 years ago, I learned Nahuatl with a friend of mine who lives near Awilizapan (Orizaba) in a village called Rafael Delgado or San Juan del Rio.”
然后，20 年前，我和一个朋友一起学习纳瓦特尔语，他住在阿维利萨潘 (奥里萨巴) 附近一个叫拉斐尔·德尔加多 (Rafael Delgado) 或圣胡安德尔里奥 (San Juan del Rio) 的村庄。”
Nahuatl varies a lot from village to village.
纳瓦特尔语因村庄而异。
How do you decide which one to learn?
你如何决定学习哪一门？
I learned the one that was closest to me.
我学到了离我最近的一个。
You mean physically closest to you?
你的意思是身体上离你最近吗？
I’m sorry, let me back up a little bit.
抱歉，让我退一步。
I forget to mention that for a part of each year, I live in Mexico in Orizaba.
我忘记提及，每年我都会有一部分时间住在墨西哥的奥里萨巴。
That’s my mother’s hometown, and just south of the city, about a 10-, 15-minute bus ride, is the village of Rafael Delgado.
那是我母亲的家乡，就在城市的南边，乘公交车大约 10、15 分钟，就是拉斐尔·德尔加多 (Rafael Delgado) 村。
That’s where everybody speaks it on the street.
那是街上每个人都说的地方。
They speak mostly Nahuatl, and then Spanish is secondary to them.
他们主要讲纳瓦特尔语，其次是西班牙语。
That’s the proximity that gives me that, plus the fact that it’s a distant cousin of mine, who is a professor of the Nahuatl language, who taught me.
这是因为距离很近，再加上教我的是我的一位远房表弟，他是纳瓦特尔语教授。
Do you try to study written Nahuatl?
您尝试学习书面纳瓦特尔语吗？
That’s hard to do, right?
这很难做到，对吧？
There just isn’t that much.
只是没有那么多。
Or you just speak it, and that’s it?
或者你只是说说而已？
Now, when you say written Nahuatl, you’re talking about the phonology, that’s the Latin characters?
现在，当你说书面纳瓦特尔语时，你指的是音韵学，即拉丁字符？
That the Spaniards imposed on Nahuatl in varying forms after the conquest.
西班牙人在征服纳瓦特尔后以不同的形式强加于纳瓦特尔。
That’s not difficult for me at all.
这对我来说一点也不困难。
No.
不。
So you could read something in Nahuatl if you —
所以你可以用纳瓦特尔语读一些东西，如果你 ——
I could write it perfectly, yes.
我可以写得很完美，是的。
Okay, great.
好的，太好了。
As far as the actual words that I know.
就我所知道的实际单词而言。
If there’s some new word, I might have to find out, but usually, if I go by pronunciation, then I can write pretty much anything.
如果有一些新单词，我可能需要找出来，但通常，如果我根据发音，那么我几乎可以写任何东西。
Do you think it’s more fundamental to your learning — the written form of the language or the spoken?
您认为对于您的学习 来说，语言的书面形式还是口语形式更重要？
Spoken.
说。
Then you move to figuring out how to read it?
然后你开始思考如何阅读它？
Yes.
是的。
Do you feel you think different thoughts in different languages?
您是否觉得用不同的语言思考不同的想法？
Yes, I do.
是的，我愿意。
How does that operate?
它是如何运作的？
I don’t know.
我不知道。
I think when I get angry when somebody cuts me off or something, I’ll curse out in Slovak.
我想当我因为有人打断我的话而生气时，我会用斯洛伐克语咒骂。
I think the reason for that is because when I lived with Táňa and Dušan Pavelkovi — they were the people from Slovakia, the Eastern Slovaks — Východňária, that’s what we call them.
我想原因是因为当我和塔尼亚和杜桑·帕维尔科维奇住在一起时——“他们是斯洛伐克人，东斯洛伐克人”——“维霍德尼亚利亚”，我们就是这么称呼他们的。
Eastern Slovaks are known for their aggressive demeanor, just hot-blooded people.
东部斯洛伐克人以其好斗的举止和热血沸腾而闻名。
They’re always cursing and swearing.
他们总是咒骂和咒骂。
When they get upset, they always have something to say, which is pretty nasty.
当他们不高兴的时候，他们总是有话要说，这很令人讨厌。
I picked up on this a lot because I spent every day working with these people.
我经常注意到这一点，因为我每天都和这些人一起工作。
I pretty much picked it up as a habit.
我几乎把它当作一种习惯。
I’m driving, someone cuts me off.
我正在开车，有人拦住我。
It’s like — I don’t want to say it because they would be bad words, like, “I swear to God” — that sort of thing.
就像 —— 我不想这么说，因为它们会是脏话，比如“我向上帝发誓” —— 之类的话。
That’s just a lighter version of what they say, but, To by nerobil ani posledný úchil!
这只是他们所说的更轻松的版本，但是，To by nerobil ani posledný úchil！
It just stuck with me over the years.
多年来它一直困扰着我。
That would be one of the examples.
这就是例子之一。
Yes, little fits of rage here and there — they come out in Slovak a lot.
是的，时不时就会有一些小小的愤怒——他们经常用斯洛伐克语表达出来。
Even if I’m in Mexico, I’ll say it.
即使我在墨西哥，我也会这么说。
Now, when I hear Russian — and Russian is a language spoken in my home, though not by me — it often sounds to me like the people are angry.
现在，当我听到俄语时——而且俄语是我家里说的语言，尽管不是我说的——在我看来，人们常常很生气。
When you speak Russian, do you sound more like you’re angry?
当你说俄语时，你听起来更像是在生气吗？
When I speak Russian — I tell people this when I’m teaching them Russian or tutoring Russian — Russian is a loud language.
当我说俄语时 —— 当我教人们俄语或辅导俄语时 我告诉人们这一点—— 俄语是一门响亮的语言。
Just taking into consideration the majority of the people that I’ve met that speak Russian, it’s always loud.
考虑到我遇到的大多数说俄语的人，声音总是很大。
“One must speak Russian loudly.
“一个人必须大声说俄语。
It will not suffice to speak softly.
仅仅轻声说话是不够的。
Americans always speak softly.” It’s twice the energy output when someone’s speaking Russian, even if you’re just at a table at the house.
美国人说话总是轻声细语。”当有人说俄语时，即使你只是坐在家里的一张桌子旁，能量输出也是两倍。
Do you read much historical linguistics, or you just focus on learning languages?
你读了很多历史语言学，还是只专注于学习语言？
I focus on learning languages, and periodically, I’ll delve into the history of linguistics.
我专注于学习语言，并定期深入研究语言学的历史。
One of my favorite books is one that was sent to me by Nijolė Skripskaitė.
我最喜欢的书之一是 Nijolė Skripskaitė 寄给我的。
She’s a Lithuanian, and she sent me a book called The History of the Lithuanian Language.
她是立陶宛人，她寄给我一本叫做《立陶宛语言史》的书。
It’s a very fascinating read.
这是一本非常有趣的读物。
I haven’t read the whole thing from front to back, but I’ll read little chapters here and there.
我还没有从头到尾读完整本书，但我会到处读一些小章节。
When I have some free time, I look into it.
当我有空闲时间时，我会研究一下。
It goes into the older Baltic variants that were much closer to, well, what people will consider Sanskrit, for example, some of the loan words from Old Norse, and the other interesting little facts of how the words are put together.
它涉及到更古老的波罗的海变体，这些变体更接近人们所认为的梵语，例如，一些来自古挪威语的借词，以及这些单词如何组合在一起的其他有趣的小事实。
Something like Chomsky on structural linguistics — do you have an opinion on that?
像乔姆斯基关于结构语言学的东西 ——你对此有什么看法吗？
I have not read the book.
我还没读过这本书。
Sapir-Whorf hypothesis?
萨皮尔-沃尔夫假说？
I’m not familiar with it.
我对此不太熟悉。
Do you think the Romance languages are, in fact, better for romance?
您认为罗曼语实际上更适合浪漫吗？
No.
不。
What’s the best language for romance and why?
什么是最适合浪漫的语言？为什么？
I don’t think about it that way.
我不这么认为。
What’s the best language for romance?
什么语言最适合表达浪漫？
I guess any language has the capacity of being romantic.
我想任何语言都有浪漫的能力。
If you’re thinking about romantic feelings of couples getting in love, that sort of thing, no. Even Finnish is more romantic to me than, say, Portuguese.
如果你想到的是情侣相爱时的浪漫感觉，诸如此类的事情，不。对我来说，甚至芬兰语也比葡萄牙语更浪漫。
That’s amazing.
太棒了。
What makes Finnish so romantic relative to Portuguese?
是什么让芬兰语相对于葡萄牙语如此浪漫？
Well, I had a girlfriend who taught me Finnish.
嗯，我有一个女朋友教我芬兰语。
Ah, yes, that will do it.
啊，是的，这样就可以了。
Which kinds of languages are hardest for you to learn?
哪种语言对您来说最难学？
What kinds of languages —
什么样的语言 —
Would it be tonal or agglutinative?
是声调的还是凝集的？
Click languages?
单击语言？
When I study a language, the grammar is super important to me.
当我学习一门语言时，语法对我来说非常重要。
I don’t have a problem with pronunciation.
我的发音没有问题。
I can learn different writing scripts — that’s fine.
我可以学习不同的文字 —— 没关系。
I think the two biggest challenges here for me would be something that’s a very complicated grammar.
我认为对我来说最大的两个挑战是非常复杂的语法。
For example, Estonian or Finnish, Hungarian, Lithuanian, to me, are grammatically very challenging.
例如，爱沙尼亚语或芬兰语、匈牙利语、立陶宛语对我来说在语法上非常具有挑战性。
As far as orthography and writing systems, certainly kanji or Chinese characters, Mandarin characters would prove difficult because there’s a lot more to memorize.
就正字法和书写系统而言，当然是汉字或汉字，普通话会很困难，因为有很多东西需要记住。
What do you think has been, for you, the hardest language to learn?
您认为对您来说最难学的语言是什么？
The hardest language for me to learn — I would say Hungarian.
对我来说最难学的语言 —— 我会说匈牙利语。
What makes Hungarian so hard?
是什么让匈牙利语如此难？
Several noun cases and a very rich vocabulary, very large vocabulary.
几个名词格和词汇量非常丰富，词汇量非常大。
A lot more words are in regular use to say specific things, more so than, say, any of the Germanic languages.
经常使用更多的单词来表达特定的事物，比任何日耳曼语言都多。
An opposite of that would be, for example, Norwegian, which is super easy.
例如，与之相反的是挪威语，它非常简单。
You just have one little word.
你只要一句话。
It doesn’t change, it doesn’t inflect the verb.
它不会改变，也不会改变动词。
Let’s see, the person or the verb is the same, no matter who is it that does it.
让我们看看，无论是谁做的，人称或动词都是一样的。
There’s simply the infinitive form.
只是不定式形式。
There’s the past participle, and then there’s the present, which you just put the letter r after the vowel of the infinitive.
有过去分词，然后有现在时，只需将字母 r 放在不定式的元音后面即可。
That’s grammatically, just giving an example of how easy it is for me to learn Norwegian grammar.
从语法上来说，这只是举一个例子，说明我学习挪威语法是多么容易。
Everything is difficult about Hungarian, as the case is knowing what case — the singular, the plural form.
关于匈牙利语，一切都很困难，因为要知道什么情况——单数、复数形式。
The verb changes with the recipient of the verb.
动词随着动词的接受者而变化。
If it’s in the first person verb, it changes when the recipient is in second person singular.
如果它是第一人称动词，那么当接收者使用第二人称单数时它会发生变化。
Szeretnélek instead of Szeretnék, for example.
例如，用 Szeretnélek 代替 Szeretnék。
Szeretnélek: “I like you.” Or Szeretnék: “I like.” These little nuances and all these exceptions to rules and irregularities make the language grammar very difficult.
Szeretnélek：“我喜欢你。”或者 Szeretnék：“我喜欢。”这些细微差别以及所有这些规则和不规则的例外使得语言语法变得非常困难。
Do you ever learn languages through music?
你曾经通过音乐学习语言吗？
Yes, I can say that.
是的，我可以这么说。
By singing, by listening to songs?
通过唱歌，通过听歌？
Or how do you do it?
或者你怎么做？
Translating lyrics, listening?
翻译歌词，听？
Listening.
倾听。
I started when I was back at Wilson High School.
当我回到威尔逊高中时我就开始了。
I met Сергей Кузнецов , and he loved music, and he gave me these tapes.
我遇到了 Сергей Кузнецов，他热爱音乐，他给了我这些磁带。
This is the early ’90s, where everybody used cassette tapes.
这是 90 年代初，每个人都使用盒式磁带。
He gave me these cassette tapes with bands like Kino, Krematorij, Nautilus Pompilius — Russian bands.
他给了我这些盒式磁带，里面有 Kino、Krematorij、Nautilus Pompilius 等俄罗斯乐队。
From there, I would listen, and already, some of the words I could recognize.
从那里，我会听到一些我已经能认出的单词。
Little words here and there, but then I started putting it together.
到处都是一些话，但后来我开始把它们放在一起。
If I listened to the songs, if I knew about 50 percent of the vocabulary of a sentence, I could figure out the rest of it.
如果我听歌曲，如果我知道一个句子的 50% 左右的词汇，我就能猜出剩下的部分。
I could guess some of the words or at least bracket down the possible meanings of certain words and later find out, oh, okay, it was this or it was that.
我可以猜出一些单词，或者至少将某些单词的可能含义括起来，然后发现，哦，好吧，是这个还是那个。
It meant this.
原来是这个意思。
Certainly, a lot of other music that I’d get from Czech and Slovak — I’d decipher it the same way.
当然，我会从捷克语和斯洛伐克语中得到很多其他音乐 ——我会以同样的方式解读它们。
How do you think about your own memory?
你如何看待自己的记忆？
Do you feel you have a good memory for all things, or just languages, or the variance of your memory is high?
您是否觉得您对所有事物（或仅对语言）都有良好的记忆力，或者您的记忆力差异很大？
What‘s your own model of that?
您自己的模型是什么？
I have a good memory for languages, certainly, but also for numbers, words, directions, how to get places, good land navigation.
当然，我对语言有很好的记忆力，但对数字、单词、方向、如何到达目的地以及良好的陆地导航也有很好的记忆力。
As far as things that are difficult for me to remember, it’s difficult for me to remember sometimes schedule memory.
至于那些对我来说很难记住的事情，我有时很难记住安排记忆。
For example, someone would say, “Hey, Vaughn, at seven o’clock on Saturday, do this.” And the time would come around, I’m not thinking about it.
例如，有人会说：“嘿，沃恩，周六七点，做这个。”时间总会到来，我不会去想它。
That’s an attention-span thing.
这是一件需要注意的事情。
It’s not like recollection, but it’s simply not catching something at the time when it was scheduled.
这不像回忆，只是在预定的时间没有捕捉到一些东西。
Now, of course, I have a calendar.
当然，现在我有日历了。
I put everything in the calendar so it’s not a problem, but that was a difficulty for me prior to that.
我把所有事情都放在日历中，所以这不是问题，但在那之前这对我来说是一个困难。
I have a good memory for economic arguments, but I have a very poor episodic memory.
我对经济论证的记忆力很好，但我的情景记忆力很差。
That is, I don’t remember episodes from my life very well, and it’s hard for me to tell stories from them.
也就是说，我不太记得自己生活中的片段，也很难讲述它们的故事。
Does that sound familiar to you at all?
这听起来很熟悉吗？
Not really, no.
不完全是，不。
So, you have good episodic memory?
那么，你的情景记忆力很好吗？
I have good episodic memory, yes.
是的，我的情景记忆力很好。
Yes, that’s good.
是的，那很好。
The other hyperpolyglots — do you know them?
其他多语言者 — 你认识他们吗？
You WhatsApp with them?
你和他们用WhatsApp 联系吗？
Or you read about them once and that’s it?
或者您读过一次有关它们的内容就仅此而已？
I’ll see some here and there.
我会到处看到一些。
I met Richard Simcott via Skype, so I’ve met him, spoken with him.
我通过 Skype 认识了理查德·西姆科特 (Richard Simcott)，所以我见过他，并与他交谈过。
That was while the Washington Post article was being written.
当时正在撰写《华盛顿邮报》的文章。
Are they fun?
他们有趣吗？
Are those the people you hang out with, or they’re just another group of people?
这些人是和你一起出去玩的人，还是只是另一群人？
Well, Richard Simcott — I’ve never hung out with him in person, but I really enjoyed the conversation, and I made plans to meet with him in Mexico in October for the polyglot conference that he’s hosting.
好吧，理查德·西姆科特（Richard Simcott）——我从来没有亲自和他一起出去过，但我真的很喜欢这次谈话，我计划十月份在墨西哥与他会面，参加他主持的多语言会议。
Other than that, I have not met polyglots that know more than, say, eight languages or so.
除此之外，我还没有遇到过懂得超过八种语言的多语言者。
The ones that know some languages — we have a meeting that we do every Sunday, the District Language Exchange, and it happens at different places, typically on Sundays at about 5:00 pm.
懂一些语言的人 —我们每周日都会举行一次会议，即学区语言交流会，它在不同的地方举行，通常在周日下午 5:00 左右举行。
We used to meet at Meridian Hill Park on 16th street NW, DC.
我们曾经在华盛顿特区西北 16 街的 Meridian Hill 公园见面。
We’ll meet at places such as Dacha Beer Garden.
我们将在 Dacha 啤酒花园等地方见面。
I’ll meet with some, and it’s really fun just to skip from language to language, and we’re just like, “Yes, we’re practicing.” We’re impressing all these other people that are standing around us, looking at us.
我会见一些人，从一种语言跳到另一种语言真的很有趣，我们就像，“是的，我们正在练习。”我们给站在我们周围看着我们的所有其他人留下了深刻的印象。
It’s always fun to just, “Okay, I know this one, too,” and we’ll jump from this to that.
说“好吧，我也知道这个”总是很有趣的，然后我们就会从这个跳到那个。
Not people that I hang out with on a daily basis.
不是我每天一起出去玩的人。
I don’t have a close friend that’s a polyglot, nor do I have a close friend regularly that would speak more than five languages.
我没有一个会说多种语言的亲密朋友，也没有一个会说五种以上语言的亲密朋友。
How many hyperpolyglots do you think there are?
您认为有多少多语言者？
I have no idea.
我不知道。
But we know what, a few hundred?
但我们知道吗，几百个？
A thousand, at least.
至少一千。
A thousand, at least.
至少一千。
A thousand, at least.
至少一千。
That’s what I would imagine.
这就是我的想象。
Is it your intuition that everyone who has that skill learns it and does it?
每个拥有该技能的人都会学习并实践它，这是你的直觉吗？
Or is there some expanse of people out there who could do it, but somehow have never been attuned to it?
或者是否有很多人可以做到这一点，但不知何故从未适应过它？
I agree with that second possibility.
我同意第二种可能性。
There are people that have the capacity, but they just don’t live in a place where they’re exposed to other languages, and they might not participate in active language learning to the degree that I have or that other hyperpolyglots have.
有些人有能力，但他们只是不住在接触其他语言的地方，他们可能不会像我或其他多语言者那样积极参与语言学习。
They might use superior memory capabilities for other things.
他们可能会将卓越的记忆能力用于其他事情。
How does language retention differ from language acquisition, or is it just the same?
语言保留与语言习得有何不同，还是完全相同？
Do you have to maintain languages, or they just stick with you?
你必须保留语言，还是它们只是跟着你？
I’ll give an example.
我举个例子。
Recently — I think it was two weeks ago — I was in front of the Bulgarian embassy.
最近 — 我想是两周前 — 我在保加利亚大使馆前。
It was a Saturday that the European Union embassies were having their open house, and we were going from embassy to embassy.
那是一个星期六，欧盟大使馆开放参观，我们从一个大使馆到另一个大使馆。
I went to the Latvian embassy, had a pretty good conversation, and I realized I had not spoken Latvian for more than 15 years, but I was still able to converse.
我去了拉脱维亚大使馆，进行了一次很好的交谈，我意识到我已经超过 15 年没有说拉脱维亚语了，但我仍然能够交谈。
Some of the words — they’re there, but it might take me some time to think about the words, like Saldējums or Jautājums .
有些词 ——它们就在那里，但我可能需要一些时间来思考这些词，比如 Saldējums 或 Jautājums 。
Little simple words like that.
诸如此类的简单话语。
Actually, those are poor examples because those are words that I know too well, but Izveicināt — they would just come slowly.
事实上，这些都是很糟糕的例子，因为这些词我太熟悉了，但是 Izveicināt——它们只会慢慢来。
It’s just a matter of putting myself in the place of the language, and it’s like a slow computer rebooting information, bringing it to the forefront, so it’s ready for use.
这只是将自己置于语言的位置的问题，就像一台缓慢的计算机重新启动信息一样，将其带到最前面，以便可以使用。
Bulgarian was the same thing.
保加利亚语也是一样。
I was in front of the Bulgarian embassy, and then someone comes up, and I had not spoken Bulgarian for about 10 years or so, and here I am, having a conversation in Bulgarian again.
我在保加利亚大使馆前，然后有人走了过来，我已经有大约十年没有说保加利亚语了，而我在这里，再次用保加利亚语交谈。
But it was a lot faster than, for example, the Latvian conversation for the Latvian embassy.
但它比拉脱维亚大使馆的拉脱维亚语对话要快得多。
In answer to that, I don’t have a problem memorizing the words that I’ve studied well.
回答这个问题，我记住那些我学得好的单词没有问题。
Some of them — if I’m learning new words, then of course, I have to come back to it repetitively to actually commit them to long-term memory.
其中一些 ——如果我正在学习新单词，那么当然，我必须反复回顾它们才能真正将它们纳入长期记忆。
You mean some technique of spaced repetition?
你是指某种间隔重复的技巧吗？
Yes.
是的。
Could you say something in Latvian for us?
您能用拉脱维亚语为我们说几句话吗？
For example, “It seems to me it will rain, but later the sun will be shining.”
例如，“在我看来，会下雨，但稍后会出太阳。”
Now, you’re an atypical case, but do you have views on how we should teach languages to other people better?
现在，你是一个非典型案例，但你对我们应该如何更好地向其他人教授语言有什么看法吗？
How to teach languages to other people better?
如何更好地向他人教授语言？
Don’t cram so much vocabulary into one little session.
不要在一小节课中塞满这么多词汇。
Mix it up: some writing, some reading, but a lot of listening.
混合起来：一些写作，一些阅读，但大量听力。
People learn by listening.
人们通过倾听来学习。
Humans grow up listening, doing nothing but listening, and that’s how they acquire language.
人类是在倾听中长大的，除了倾听什么都不做，这就是他们习得语言的方式。
That should be reflected in teaching methods.
这应该体现在教学方法上。
If you think of your own acquisitions — for most individuals, it’s relatively easy to learn a new language without an accent at a young age, and it gets progressively harder.
如果你想想自己的习得——对于大多数人来说，在年轻时学习一门没有口音的新语言相对容易，而且会变得越来越困难。
Do you think that applies to you or not really?
您认为这是否适用于您？
I think that it’s got a little bit more difficult, but not by much.
我认为这有点困难，但也不是很多。
But not by much.
但幅度不大。
Are you willing to tell us how old you are?
你愿意告诉我们你的年龄吗？
Yes, 46.
是的，46。
46.
46.
Yes.
是的。
You just think that will keep on going for some while still, and you can just keep on learning?
你只是认为这种情况还会持续一段时间，你就可以继续学习吗？
Yes.
是的。
Do you have particular aspirations such as, “Well, I want to learn Otomi,” or whatever the next thing is?
您是否有特定的愿望，例如“嗯，我想学习 Otomi”，或者接下来的事情是什么？
Or it just happens?
或者它只是发生了？
Otomi — it’s pretty interesting that you say that because it’s one of the ones I would like to learn somehow.
Otomi ——你这么说很有趣，因为这是我想以某种方式学习的内容之一。
Oh, good.
哦，很好。
Why Otomi?
为什么是奥托米？
Otomi — because that is spoken also in the state of Veracruz.
Otomi ——因为韦拉克鲁斯州也使用这种语言。
I’ve had some contact with some Otomi speakers, but never really sat down with them to learn anything.
我与一些 Otomi 演讲者有过一些接触，但从未真正坐下来与他们学习任何东西。
I have literature and music that is written in Otomi.
我有用乙巳写的文学和音乐。
It looks very beautiful.
它看起来非常漂亮。
Otomi probably is dying out, or don’t you think so?
Otomi 可能正在消亡，或者你不这么认为吗？
Dying out — as far as the state of indigenous languages in Mexico, it’s pretty much the same.
消亡——就墨西哥土著语言的状况而言，情况几乎是一样的。
There are fewer and fewer speakers every year because the youngsters are not willing, or they’re just — for some reason — sticking to Spanish instead of their own indigenous language, or they’re learning English instead.
每年说这种语言的人越来越少，因为年轻人不愿意，或者他们只是 —— 出于某种原因 —— 坚持使用西班牙语而不是自己的本土语言，或者他们正在学习英语。
As far as actual numbers, I’m not exactly certain, but I know that many indigenous communities are putting efforts into preserving their languages.
至于实际数字，我不太确定，但我知道许多土著社区正在努力保护他们的语言。
Do you worry much about language loss as an issue?
您是否非常担心语言丧失这个问题？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Is there anything we can do?
有什么我们可以做的吗？
Yes, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
There are different methods I see.
我看到有不同的方法。
For example, when I’m in Orizaba, Mexico, there are two professors, Armando Alonso Limón, Miguel Torres.
例如，当我在墨西哥奥里萨巴时，有两位教授，阿曼多·阿隆索·利蒙（Armando Alonso Limón）和米格尔·托雷斯（Miguel Torres）。
They’re both related.
他们都是相关的。
One is uncle and one is nephew.
一位是叔叔，一位是侄子。
They’re pretty much the fluent go-to people of the town.
他们几乎是镇上最能说流利话的人。
They just know all the vocabulary, the words for every plant and animal, pretty much as far as memory can go.
他们只知道所有的词汇，每种植物和动物的单词，几乎就记忆力而言。
They are actively thinking of ways, efforts that they can continue to teach the language.
他们正在积极思考如何继续教授语言。
They teach at bilingual schools.
他们在双语学校任教。
The kids go to the school; they’re learning Spanish; they’re learning Nahuatl at the same time.
孩子们去学校；他们正在学习西班牙语；他们同时学习纳瓦特尔语。
And he speaks to them in Nahuatl as much as he can.
他尽可能多地用纳瓦特尔语与他们交谈。
Looking at these methods, when I started to learn it — the Nahuatl language — about 25 years ago, I arrived at Armando’s house with a pen and a book to start writing things down.
看看这些方法，当我开始学习它时——“纳瓦特尔语”——大约25年前，我带着笔和书来到阿曼多家，开始写下来。
Then I realized, when I went into his house, that about six other kids had come, also with pens and books, to do the same thing.
然后我意识到，当我走进他的房子时，大约有另外六个孩子也来了，也带着笔和书，来做同样的事情。
I think that when the kids saw that an outsider — even though I’m half Mexican, to them I’m an outsider.
我认为，当孩子们看到一个局外人时——尽管我有一半墨西哥血统，但对他们来说我就是一个局外人。
I look like an American.
我看起来像个美国人。
I don’t speak 100 percent native Spanish like a typical everyday Mexican there because I don’t live there all the time.
我不会像那里典型的墨西哥人一样说 100% 地道西班牙语，因为我并不一直住在那里。
For them to see an outsider, someone coming from the United States, even though I spent my childhood in Mexico, I’m looked at as pretty much a gringo.
对于他们来说，看到一个局外人，一个来自美国的人，即使我在墨西哥度过了童年，我也被视为一个外国佬。
“Here is this American coming, and he wants to learn our language.
“这个美国人来了，他想学习我们的语言。
Well, wow.” All of a sudden, they realized, “Okay, people want to learn our language.
嗯，哇。”突然，他们意识到：“好吧，人们想学习我们的语言。
Our language has value.”
我们的语言有价值。”
I see that when I take interest in a language that’s not spoken by very many people.
当我对一种很少有人说的语言感兴趣时，我就会发现这一点。
Sometimes my niece will be with me, and she’ll want to learn some words, too.
有时我的侄女会和我在一起，她也会想学一些单词。
We have this really friendly approach.
我们有这种非常友好的方法。
“Hey, I’d like to learn some of these words.
“嘿，我想学一些这些单词。
What does this mean?” It really just gives them a reminder.
这是什么意思？这实际上只是给他们一个提醒。
It’s an uplift.
这是一种提升。
“This language that we know, that’s spoken by very few people, and this culture of ours is very valuable.
“我们知道的这种语言，很少有人使用，而我们的这种文化非常有价值。
People see it, and they appreciate it.”
人们看到了它，并且很欣赏它。”
Linguistic issues aside, how do you feel rural Mexico is doing now?
抛开语言问题不谈，您觉得墨西哥农村现在怎么样？
Rural Mexico.
墨西哥农村。
Rural Mexico struggles economically, absolutely.
墨西哥农村地区的经济绝对陷入困境。
Oh, so many different ideas — how to put it all together?
哦，这么多不同的想法 —— 如何将它们整合在一起？
Their land is being taken away and used for commercial reasons.
他们的土地被征用并用于商业目的。
They’re being exploited.
他们正在被剥削。
They’re laughed at when they come to the city, and they get a lot of discrimination, especially from the young kids.
当他们来到城市时，他们会被嘲笑，并且受到很多歧视，尤其是来自年幼的孩子。
They’ll go to a school, and they’ll be made fun of because they’re indigenous.
他们会去学校，但会因为他们是土著而被嘲笑。
That would be like indigenous people from rural areas all over Mexico.
这就像墨西哥各地农村地区的土著人民一样。
When I see the people, they seem very happy, and they’re smiling, and they’re going about their business.
当我看到人们时，他们看起来很高兴，面带微笑，忙着自己的事情。
But I think there’s an underlying melancholy and this feeling of being second class.
但我认为有一种潜在的忧郁和这种二等公民的感觉。
They don’t say it directly, but I can sense it.
他们不直接说出来，但我能感觉到。
If you could change one thing in the parts of rural Mexico you’re familiar with — other than just more resources in every way — what would that be?
如果你能改变墨西哥农村地区你熟悉的一件事——“除了在各个方面增加资源之外”——那会是什么？
If I could change it?
如果我可以改变它吗？
Well, set up schools, prioritize the language, and make it so that rural people see themselves the way city people or urbans see themselves, and they live that.
好吧，建立学校，优先考虑语言，让农村人以城市人或城市人的方式看待自己，并以此生活。
Just that same amount of pride, that value, that self-worth needs to be brought up.
同样的自豪感、价值观、自我价值也需要被培养。
Do you think more people should leave rural Mexico, or fewer should leave?
您认为应该有更多的人离开墨西哥农村，还是应该减少离开？
Leave rural Mexico?
离开墨西哥农村吗？
For the cities — not for the US, but just move to Mexico City, move to Guadalajara or Veracruz, wherever.
对于城市来说——不是美国，而是搬到墨西哥城，搬到瓜达拉哈拉或韦拉克鲁斯，无论在哪里。
That’s really not for me to say.
这确实不是我能说的。
People move for economic reasons or something that they need, to find a job here or there, or they just need work.
人们出于经济原因或他们需要的东西而搬家，为了在这里或那里找到工作，或者他们只是需要工作。
No, I think that there’s an importance to the rural way of life.
不，我认为乡村生活方式很重要。
That’s for every place, even in the United States.
这适用于每个地方，甚至在美国也是如此。
A lot so in Mexico, too.
在墨西哥也是如此。
I think that it’s just more resources, a better economic stance, just an economic foundation for rural areas.
我认为这只是更多的资源，更好的经济立场，只是农村地区的经济基础。
People need to stay where they are.
人们需要留在原地。
They move away from the rural areas, and the rural areas are missing something already.
他们离开了农村，而农村已经失去了一些东西。
What’s your favorite food in rural Mexico?
您在墨西哥乡村最喜欢的食物是什么？
My favorite food in rural Mexico — it would be barbacoa.
我在墨西哥乡村最喜欢的食物是 barbacoa。
Yes, it’s amazing when they put it under the earth overnight.
是的，当他们一夜之间把它埋在地下时，真是太神奇了。
It’s incredible.
太不可思议了。
It’s the best barbecue in the world, I think.
我认为这是世界上最好的烧烤。
I’ve seen it done, yes.
我已经看到它完成了，是的。
Mole, of course.
当然是鼹鼠。
That means many things.
这意味着很多事情。
Which mole?
哪颗痣？
Mole — the one that is made in Orizaba is the mixture of the chocolate base and all the nuts and oil and the various kinds of pepper and seeds.
Mole ——在 Orizaba 制作的巧克力是巧克力底料、所有坚果、油以及各种胡椒和种子的混合物。
When they say mole, they only mean that one thing.
当他们说痣时，他们只指一件事。
It’s that brown sauce.
就是那个棕色酱。
It’s usually served with turkey.
它通常与火鸡一起食用。
Put turkey in there, it’s really good.
把火鸡放进去，真的很好吃。
That’s very rural.
那是非常乡村的。
That, and the barbacoa.
那，还有巴巴科。
As far as other things, they’ll probably just roast a chicken, but typically that’s not especially a rural thing.
至于其他的事情，他们可能只会烤一只鸡，但这通常不是特别乡村的事情。
That could be done anywhere.
这可以在任何地方完成。
I just happen to enjoy a rural barbecue here and there.
我只是碰巧到处享受乡村烧烤。
The part of Mexico I used to go to in Guerrero, mole would mean a sauce with pepitas, and maybe white onion and herbs, but nothing like chocolate, nuts.
我曾经去过墨西哥的格雷罗州，摩尔意味着一种带有墨西哥辣椒的酱汁，也许还有白洋葱和香草，但没有像巧克力、坚果这样的东西。
Not at all like Pueblo or Oaxacan mole.
完全不像普韦布洛或瓦哈卡鼹鼠。
No, that’s very different.
不，那是非常不同的。
Okay, I’m not familiar with that variety of mole in that case.
好吧，我不熟悉这种情况下的那种痣。
And very, very hot, sometimes almost impossible for me to eat.
而且非常非常热，有时我几乎无法进食。
Oaxacan mole is not really spicy, right?
瓦哈卡痣并不辣，对吧？
No. Mole is actually the Nahuatl word for sauce.
不。摩尔实际上是纳瓦特尔语中酱汁的意思。
That’s all it means.
这就是全部意思。
Yes.
是的。
It’s striking to me — there’s a whole bunch of Nahuatl words in English, like tomato, coyote, right?
这让我很惊讶 —— 英语中有一大堆纳瓦特尔语单词，比如番茄、土狼，对吧？
Coyote, chocolate.
土狼，巧克力。
Yes.
是的。
Your abilities with language learning — what is it exactly that you think makes you special with those abilities?
您的语言学习能力 — 您认为这些能力到底是什么让您与众不同？
Is it memory or dedication or some combination of qualities?
是记忆力、奉献精神还是某种品质的组合？
I think a combination of those — memory, the dedication, and the love of language.
我认为这些因素的结合——记忆力、奉献精神和对语言的热爱。
The love of language.
对语言的热爱。
Yes.
是的。
So, it’s just super fun for you.
所以，这对你来说非常有趣。
It’s very fun for me, yes.
这对我来说很有趣，是的。
It will just always be fun.
一切都会很有趣。
It’ll always be fun.
这总是很有趣的。
It’ll always be rewarding up and down the street.
无论在街上还是在大街上，它总是会带来回报。
I’ll be at the grocery store, people are speaking, they’re saying something in Lithuanian or they’re looking for something in Russian.
我会在杂货店，人们在说话，他们用立陶宛语说些什么，或者他们正在寻找俄语的东西。
They don’t know where to find it.
他们不知道在哪里可以找到它。
I’ll point it out and say, “Okay, cool, I just helped somebody.” Maybe there are some people that don’t speak English very well, so I’m always there to lend a hand, and that’s always rewarding.
我会指出并说：“好吧，酷，我只是帮助了某人。”也许有些人英语说得不太好，所以我总是在那里伸出援手，这总是有回报的。
Duolingo apps — are they good?
Duolingo 应用程序 — 它们好吗？
Do you use them?
你用它们吗？
I used a Duolingo app to learn Welsh.
我使用 Duolingo 应用程序来学习威尔士语。
Welsh.
威尔士语。
Yes, it has been very useful to me, although it’s a very slow pace for me.
是的，它对我来说非常有用，尽管它对我来说速度很慢。
Welsh is hard.
威尔士语很难。
How is your Welsh?
你的威尔士语怎么样？
I can speak Welsh.
我会说威尔士语。
I can have a basic conversation in Welsh.
我可以用威尔士语进行基本对话。
What is Welsh —
什么是威尔士语 —
Dw i’n siarad tipyn bach o Gymraeg nawr.
Dw i'n siarad Tipyn bach o Gymraeg nawr。
COWEN: That sounds good.
考恩：听起来不错。
What do you think of online tutors and services such as italki?
您对 italki 等在线辅导和服务有何看法？
I am not familiar with those at all.
我对那些根本不熟悉。
I’ve never used them.
我从来没有用过它们。
You use a Zoom call or Skype and just talk to someone around the world.
您可以使用 Zoom 通话或 Skype 与世界各地的人交谈。
You might have to pay them, but they’ll talk to you for as long as you want in their languages.
你可能需要付钱给他们，但他们会用他们的语言与你交谈，只要你愿意。
Tutoring, for someone who cannot go to the country or cannot be immersed, I think will be a very valuable tool, certainly.
家教，对于那些不能去乡下或者不能沉浸其中的人来说，我认为肯定是一个非常有价值的工具。
Thinking of your own life, if you were to go back to your 12- or 16-year-old self and tell that person something — advice, whatever — what would it be?
想想你自己的生活，如果你回到 12 或 16 岁的自己，告诉那个人一些事情 —— 建议，无论什么 —— 那会是什么？
Keep at it.
坚持下去。
COWEN: Keep at it.
考恩：坚持下去。
But you did keep at it, right?
但你确实坚持了下来，对吧？
So, that’s not what you needed to hear.
所以，这不是你需要听到的。
Not necessarily, because I wasted time in doing other stupid things.
不一定，因为我浪费了时间做其他愚蠢的事情。
I think better words would be, “Stop doing the stupid stuff and focus on this.”
我认为更好的说法是，“别再做蠢事了，专注于这件事。”
You were a roadie for a punk rock band?
你是朋克摇滚乐队的巡演员吗？
That’s right.
这是正确的。
Was that a smart thing or a stupid thing?
这是聪明的事还是愚蠢的事？
No, to me that was not a stupid thing.
不，对我来说这不是一件愚蠢的事情。
No. That is —
不，那是 ——
Sounds like fun.
听起来很有趣。
What was the band?
乐队是什么？
The Goons.
暴徒们。
Yes, I drove the van.
是的，我开的是面包车。
I was pretty much the designated driver for about a year.
我几乎是指定司机大约一年了。
I think it was 2000.
我认为那是2000年。
That was traveling in the US?
那是在美国旅行吗？
They might have traveled somewhere in the US, but when I went, I pretty much took them from DC to New York, Hartford, Connecticut, and all those shows.
他们可能去过美国的某个地方，但当我去的时候，我几乎带他们从华盛顿到纽约、哈特福德、康涅狄格州，以及所有这些演出。
We’d stay with Gabby of Molotov Cocktail in Manhattan or stay some places in Hartford, Connecticut.
我们会住在曼哈顿的嘉比莫洛托夫鸡尾酒会，或者住在康涅狄格州哈特福德的一些地方。
We’d see Boiling Man and other shows, and a lot of other bands would come and play together at the same shows.
我们会看到 Boiling Man 和其他演出，还有很多其他乐队会来在同一场演出中一起演奏。
That’s still what you like best in music, is punk?
这仍然是你最喜欢的音乐，是朋克吗？
In my formative years it’s what I listened to the most — punk and hardcore.
在我的成长岁月里，这是我听得最多的音乐——朋克和硬核音乐。
So, that’s my go-to music.
所以，这就是我的首选音乐。
Great.
伟大的。
What’s the story of how you ended up in your current job as a carpet cleaner?
您是如何成为目前地毯清洁工的工作的？
Oh, it’s my brother’s business.
哦，这是我哥哥的事。
You work for your brother?
你为你哥哥工作？
Yes.
是的。
Does being a carpet cleaner make it easier to learn languages because your mind is not full, say, in the way it would be if you were a lawyer and you have to worry about memorizing parts of the law, and you’re just free to focus on language?
做一名地毯清洁工是否会让学习语言变得更容易，因为你的大脑不完整，比如说，就像你是一名律师，你必须担心记住部分法律，而你可以自由地专注于语言？
Or that doesn’t matter?
或者说这并不重要？
No, there’s nothing rewarding about carpet cleaning that’s conducive to learning languages at all.
不，清洁地毯并没有任何有益于学习语言的好处。
I think my most rewarding job was the caretaker at the grounds of the Central and Eastern European Art Foundation because that’s where I was speaking languages all the time, every day.
我认为我最有价值的工作是中东欧艺术基金会场地的看门人，因为那是我每天都在说语言的地方。
That’s where I learned to speak Czech fluently, where I learned to speak Slovak fluently.
在那里我学会了流利地说捷克语，在那里我学会了流利说斯洛伐克语。
It’s where I brushed up on my Bulgarian.
我就是在那里温习保加利亚语的。
Romanian and Serbian as well — I’d speak those languages because I worked with people from those areas.
还有罗马尼亚语和塞尔维亚语 —— 我会说这些语言，因为我与来自这些地区的人一起工作。
As far as carpet cleaning, maybe I’ll have a customer, or I’ve had a customer who speaks Latvian and a customer speaks Finnish, a Norwegian customer.
至于地毯清洁，也许我会有一个客户，或者我有一个会说拉脱维亚语的客户和一个会说芬兰语的客户，一个挪威客户。
I had the same customer — I think three times or so — a woman from Ireland who speaks Irish Gaelic, and she was very surprised.
我遇到了同一个顾客——“我想有过三次了”——一位来自爱尔兰的女士，她会说爱尔兰盖尔语，她感到非常惊讶。
Oh, I’m sure.
哦，我确定。
How good is your Irish Gaelic?
你的爱尔兰盖尔语有多好？
Oh, about as good as my Welsh.
哦，和我的威尔士语一样好。
How do they react when you just speak to them?
当你和他们说话时他们有什么反应？
Wow, they get this look like they’ve got a stick in the back.
哇，他们看起来就像背后插了一根棍子。
It’s like, what?
就像，什么？
An bhfuil Gaeilge agat?
一个bhfuil Gaeilge agat？
Conas seo?
科纳斯搜索引擎优化？
COWEN: What do you tell them?
考恩：你告诉他们什么？
What do I tell them?
我该告诉他们什么？
Bhí mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge le dé bliana anuas.
Bhí mé ag folhlaim Gaeilge le dé bliana anuas。
At that time, it was like I’d been learning Irish for about 10 years.
那时，我好像已经学习爱尔兰语大约十年了。
I’ll say, Ar mhaith leat dul thíos an staighre agus an carpet a fheiceáil?
我会说，Ar mhaith leat dul thíos an staighre agus a 地毯 a fheiceáil？
Would you like to come down and have a look at the carpet?
您想下来看看地毯吗？
Stuff like that, a little sentence here and there.
类似这样的事情，到处都是一小句话。
Not much like a standard conversation and getting into details, but just some simple sentences.
不太像标准对话和深入细节，只是一些简单的句子。
What’s the hardest stain to get out of a carpet?
地毯上最难去除的污渍是什么？
The hardest stain to get out of a carpet, I would say, wood stain, Kool-Aid, dyes.
我想说，地毯上最难去除的污渍是木材污渍、Kool-Aid、染料。
Kool-Aid, really?
酷爱饮料，真的吗？
I’m surprised.
我很惊讶。
It’s all just dye.
一切都只是染料。
They might’ve changed the formula, so it’s not as permanent of a color.
他们可能改变了配方，所以它不是永久性的颜色。
Colors, color dyes, that sort of thing — nearly impossible.
颜色、彩色染料之类的东西——几乎不可能。
The purpose of dye is to stain.
染料的目的是染色。
That’s what it was designed for.
这就是它的设计目的。
If you’ve stained the carpet, the dye did its job, and there’s no reversing it because it’s that good of a dye.
如果你把地毯弄脏了，那么染料就完成了它的工作，并且无法逆转，因为它是一种很好的染料。
Would it make sense for you to work as a translator?
作为一名翻译对您来说有意义吗？
Or do you think being interested in so many languages is, in some way, inconsistent with that?
或者您认为对如此多的语言感兴趣在某种程度上与此不一致？
I would be interested in working as a translator, yes.
是的，我有兴趣担任翻译。
For the languages you know best?
对于您最了解的语言？
For the languages I know best, I would say.
我想说的是我最了解的语言。
Yes.
是的。
Do you still put time into learning those even better?
你还花时间去学习那些更好的东西吗？
Or it’s more like, I want to do Otomi next?
或者更像是，接下来我想做乙美？
I’m always switching it out.
我总是把它关掉。
I’m always going from book to book, so no, certainly there’s much more to learn.
我总是从一本书到另一本书，所以不，当然还有很多东西需要学习。
Even in the languages that I speak more or less fluently, I’m still learning specific words.
即使在我说得或多或少流利的语言中，我仍然在学习特定的单词。
I don’t know the words for makeup in a lot of those languages because it’s never a subject that I spoke about.
我不知道很多语言中化妆的单词，因为它从来不是我谈论的主题。
Scientific terms — being able to speak about chemistry, physics — that’s also important.
科学术语 ——能够谈论化学、物理 ——这也很重要。
It’s something I want to learn to do in areas that I can explore to improve languages that I know.
这是我想在我可以探索的领域学习做的事情，以改进我所知道的语言。
Are you keen to do an interlude where you just speak a few languages for us?
您是否愿意插播一段为我们说几门语言的插曲？
Yes, I could.
是的，我可以。
Okay.
好的。
Shall we try Vietnamese?
我们要尝试越南语吗？
Vietnamese.
越南语。
“Do you speak Vietnamese?” A simple question, like, do you speak Vietnamese?
“你会说越南语吗？”一个简单的问题，比如，你会说越南语吗？
My Vietnamese is super elementary.
我的越南语非常初级。
It’s really not enough to have a conversation.
仅仅交谈确实是不够的。
How about Dutch?
荷兰语怎么样？
Dutch?
荷兰语？
“I can speak Dutch.
“我会说荷兰语。
I had a friend from Groningen.
我有一个来自格罗宁根的朋友。
He is from the north, and his name is Bram Staal, and we became friends.
他来自北方，名叫布拉姆·斯塔尔（Bram Staal），我们成了朋友。
He lived with us an entire summer in Silver Spring.”
他在银泉和我们一起住了整个夏天。”
Finnish?
芬兰？
“One day I was in Mexico when I heard a man say to everyone .
“有一天，我在墨西哥，听到一个男人对所有人说。
.
。
.
。
Somebody asked him where he was from.
有人问他从哪里来。
He said he was a Finn from Finland, and I suddenly said to him, ‘Yes!
他说他是来自芬兰的芬兰人，我突然对他说，‘是的！
I also speak Finnish, nice to meet you, etc.’”
我也会说芬兰语，很高兴见到你，等等。”
Do you speak Sinhalese?
你会说僧伽罗语吗？
Sinhalese.
僧伽罗语。
“I speak some Sinhalese.
“我会说一些僧伽罗语。
What time is it?”
现在几点了？”
Again, like Vietnamese, it’s just very simple, very elementary.
再说一次，就像越南语一样，它非常简单，非常初级。
Portuguese?
葡萄牙语？
Brahas betinda!
布拉哈斯贝廷达！
I know that one.
我知道那个。
Today is Thursday.
今天是星期四。
“I can speak Portuguese because of my friends from school.
“因为学校的朋友，我能说葡萄牙语。
I spoke with them every day.
我每天都和他们说话。
After school, we would all hang out just to enjoy the city.
放学后，我们都会出去玩，只是为了享受这个城市。
It is for that that I speak Portuguese.”
为此我才说葡萄牙语。”
And you know both Portugal Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese?
您还知道葡萄牙葡萄牙语和巴西葡萄牙语吗？
Mostly Brazilian Portuguese.
主要是巴西葡萄牙语。
I would not know how to specifically imitate the accent of Portugal Portuguese because I don’t have enough exposure to it.
我不知道如何专门模仿葡萄牙葡萄牙语的口音，因为我对葡萄牙语的接触还不够。
Even in English, can you speak different ways?
即使是英语，你能用不同的方式说吗？
Could you speak the way a Scottish person would speak?
你能用苏格兰人说话的方式说话吗？
Or that just doesn’t count?
或者这根本不算数？
“Oh, like a Scottish person, I suppose.
“哦，我想，就像苏格兰人一样。
I met someone who’s talking about the color green.
我遇到一个正在谈论绿色的人。
She was talking about the color green the whole time.”
她一直在谈论绿色。”
I’m just mimicking her accent.
我只是模仿她的口音。
I really like the way the Scottish English sounds.
我真的很喜欢苏格兰英语的发音。
As far as other dialects, “I spent a lot of time on the bayou and the water come through the house.
至于其他方言，“我在河口花了很多时间，水流过房子。
That’s all the people talk about is, the water to come through the house.”
人们谈论的就是让水流过房子。”
How much do you travel in terms of going to these places?
您去这些地方的旅行次数是多少？
The last time I was in New Orleans was in 2007.
我上次去新奥尔良是在 2007 年。
It was post-Katrina — 2006 and then 2007.
那是卡特里娜飓风过后——2006 年和 2007 年。
I think that was it for Louisiana.
我想路易斯安那州就是这样。
I spent a good two weeks there with the Nehlig family just outside of Chalmette, Louisiana.
我在路易斯安那州查尔梅特郊外的 Nehlig 一家人那里度过了整整两周的时光。
As far as other places go, my father used to have this pilgrimage, where we would travel all across the US and go visit my grandparents, who lived in Santa Rosa, California.
至于其他地方，我父亲曾经有过这样的朝圣之旅，我们会穿越美国各地，去看望住在加利福尼亚州圣罗莎的祖父母。
It’s in Sonoma County, about an hour north of the Bay Area.
它位于索诺玛县，距湾区以北约一小时车程。
On the way, we’d stop at different places.
途中，我们会在不同的地方停留。
Explore Lewis and Clark National Park, for example.
例如，探索刘易斯和克拉克国家公园。
Montana, the Badlands in South Dakota, or we’d stop somewhere in Kentucky.
蒙大拿州、南达科他州的荒地，或者我们会在肯塔基州的某个地方停留。
And the accents — they change from place to place.
不同地方的口音也不同。
Some are a lot deeper than others.
有些比其他更深。
What especially stood out to me was the English spoken in rural Kentucky, the southern tips of Indiana and Illinois, and then going into Missouri — just those rural areas.
对我来说特别突出的是肯塔基州乡村地区、印第安纳州和伊利诺伊州南端以及密苏里州的乡村地区所讲的英语。
“It’s very different — there might be — ” A super-old style of speaking, a much deeper accent than what I would typically hear in the middle of West Virginia, for example.
“这是非常不同的 —— 可能有 —— ”这是一种超级古老的说话风格，比我在西弗吉尼亚州中部通常听到的口音要深得多。
But say, do you want to go to the Netherlands so you can hear Dutch for two weeks?
但是，你想去荷兰听两周荷兰语吗？
Oh, certainly, yes.
哦，当然，是的。
You don’t have the chance to, or is it part of your program, or you think you will, you hope you will, or you have?
你没有机会，或者这是你计划的一部分，或者你认为你会，你希望你会，或者你有？
I hope I will.
我希望我会的。
Just looking for other employment, post-COVID, work got pretty slow, and I started doing five different jobs.
只是在寻找其他工作，疫情过后，工作变得相当缓慢，我开始做五种不同的工作。
I had five part-time jobs.
我有五份兼职工作。
Slowly, I’ve been doing away with those because work is getting a little bit busy, but I’m not in a financial scenario where I could do that very easily now.
慢慢地，我已经放弃了这些，因为工作变得有点忙，但我现在的财务状况不太容易做到这一点。
Is there a country where you think, “Well, that’s where I want to go,” if you had a number one choice?
如果你有第一选择，你是否会想，“好吧，那就是我想去的国家”？
A number one choice?
第一选择？
To go and live for a month, two months.
去住一个月、两个月。
Finland.
芬兰。
Finland.
芬兰。
Yes.
是的。
What interests you about Finland, in addition to Finnish?
除了芬兰语之外，您对芬兰还有什么感兴趣？
In addition to Finnish, the Lapland, just the northern climate, the lakes, and the nature, and people say it mimics Minnesota.
除了芬兰语之外，拉普兰还有北方的气候、湖泊和自然，人们说它模仿了明尼苏达州。
Of course, I’m familiar with Minnesota, and kymmenniä järveä kaikkialla .
当然，我熟悉明尼苏达州和 kymmenniä järveä kaikkialla 。
Just hundreds of lakes all over the place.
整个地方只有数百个湖泊。
Being able to go north and see the Northern Lights, the reindeer, the flora and fauna of the country, and visiting friends.
能够去北方看北极光、驯鹿、这个国家的动植物、拜访朋友。
It’s one of the very best countries for architecture, I think, and oddly, for Russian food.
我认为，它是建筑最好的国家之一，奇怪的是，它也是俄罗斯美食最好的国家之一。
Russian food in Finland is much better than Russian food in Russia, which is generally not that good.
芬兰的俄罗斯菜比俄罗斯的俄罗斯菜好得多，而俄罗斯的俄罗斯菜普遍不那么好吃。
Tosi mielenkiintoista!
托西·米伦基恩托斯塔！
.
。
That’s pretty interesting.
这很有趣。
Well, the ingredients are better.
嗯，成分比较好。
It’s more of a market economy.
这更像是市场经济。
This is all pre-sanctions, of course.
当然，这都是制裁前的事情。
I’ve only been to Finland once, but I really quite liked it.
我只去过芬兰一次，但我真的很喜欢它。
I want to go back.
我想回去。
I was only in Helsinki, but I thought it was quite an underrated city.
我只在赫尔辛基，但我认为这是一个被低估的城市。
That’s what I hear from other people as well.
这也是我从其他人那里听到的。
It’s a place I’ve got to go and visit.
这是一个我必须要去参观的地方。
There are just no hassles to being there.
在那里没有任何麻烦。
Not an issue for you, but you can just speak English to people if you want, right?
对你来说这不是问题，但如果你愿意，你可以和别人说英语，对吗？
Of course.
当然。
What’s your favorite movie?
你最喜欢的电影是什么？
My favorite movie.
我最喜欢的电影。
The Thing, the original The Thing with Kurt Russell.
《The Thing》，原版《The Thing》，由库尔特·拉塞尔 (Kurt Russell) 主演。
The original The Thing.
原来的东西。
What do you think of the remake?
你觉得翻拍版怎么样？
They made a prequel to it.
他们制作了它的前传。
It’s not exactly a remake.
这并不完全是翻拍。
No, actually, there is an original The Thing that’s prior to the Kurt Russell —
不，实际上，在库尔特·拉塞尔 (Kurt Russell) 之前还有一个原版的《怪形》(The Thing)——
With James Arness, and then there’s what?
有了詹姆斯·阿内斯，然后还有什么呢？
The 1982 one.
1982 年的那一张。
The 1982 one is the one that’s my favorite.
1982 年的那张是我最喜欢的一张。
That’s excellent.
那太好了。
I think that the earlier one is also good though.
我觉得早期的也不错。
It’s scary only by, say, 1950 standards, but if you can get yourself into that mindset, it’s quite a good movie.
仅以 1950 年的标准来看，这部电影很恐怖，但如果你能让自己进入这种心态，这将是一部相当不错的电影。
That’s the key to enjoying a film from different eras, getting yourself into the mindset.
这是欣赏不同时代电影的关键，让自己融入其中。
That’s right.
这是正确的。
I’m glad that you mentioned that.
我很高兴你提到这一点。
A lot of people can’t do that.
很多人都做不到。
It’s not unrelated to linguistic issues.
这与语言问题不无关系。
It’s like you have to crack the cultural code of some era.
这就像你必须破解某个时代的文化密码。
Yes, that’s very true.
是的，确实如此。
Most remakes of movies are much worse, but with The Thing, it wasn’t worse.
大多数翻拍的电影都更糟糕，但《怪形》的情况并没有更糟。
They understood what was good about the original, but still improved on it.
他们了解原版的优点，但仍对其进行了改进。
Yes.
是的。
Is it the horror element or the science fiction element that draws you more to The Thing?
《怪形》更吸引你的是恐怖元素还是科幻元素？
I think it’s a combination of both.
我认为这是两者的结合。
I do like science fiction as long as it’s not too far-fetched and it’s like, “Come on, this doesn’t make sense,” but certainly fathomable in what goes on in The Thing.
我确实喜欢科幻小说，只要它不是太牵强，就像是“得了吧，这没有道理”，但《怪形》中发生的事情肯定是可以理解的。
And I really like the creepy aspect of it, not knowing that someone’s infected before the person’s infected, that mystery that is like a surprise later.
我真的很喜欢它令人毛骨悚然的一面，在某人被感染之前不知道有人被感染，这种神秘感就像后来的惊喜一样。
It’s “Oh, this person was one of them this whole time.” That really brings out that scary element.
这是“哦，这个人一直都是他们中的一员。”这确实带出了那种可怕的元素。
What are the open tabs on your browser right now?
您的浏览器现在打开了哪些选项卡？
Open tabs on my browser — I don’t know.
在我的浏览器上打开选项卡 — 我不知道。
Language learning?
语言学习？
There are different languages, or that’s all up in your head?
有不同的语言，还是这一切都在你的脑海里？
That’s just all up in my head.
这就是我脑子里的一切。
Tabs on my browser.
我的浏览器上的选项卡。
I guess the phone browser, just things that I’ve been looking up.
我猜是手机浏览器，我一直在查找的东西。
Like I have an open browser tab, the Washington Post article about you because that’s what I’m working on, for instance.
就像我有一个打开的浏览器选项卡，华盛顿邮报关于你的文章，因为这就是我正在做的事情，例如。
I see.
我懂了。
No, I just don’t keep open tabs like that.
不，我只是不打开那样的标签。
I have a lot of open tabs at the moment about other hyperpolyglots because I read up on them to talk with you.
我现在有很多关于其他超级多语言者的选项卡，因为我阅读了它们来与你交谈。
Yes, that’s a good example, but I don’t really keep the open tabs in that manner.
是的，这是一个很好的例子，但我并没有真正以这种方式保留打开的选项卡。
I’m more of an old-fashioned person.
我是一个比较守旧的人。
I carry books around with me.
我随身携带书籍。
I read books, paper books.
我看书，纸质书。
They’re in my car.
他们在我的车里。
I have 10 or so books in there.
我那里有大约10本书。
But open tabs on my browser — I think maybe I’d see YouTube.
但在我的浏览器上打开标签 — 我想也许我会看到 YouTube。
I’m trying to put more YouTube channels up, so it’s something that I’m looking into.
我正在尝试建立更多的 YouTube 频道，所以这是我正在研究的事情。
You might reopen your YouTube channel?
您可以重新打开您的 YouTube 频道吗？
Well, the YouTube channel — it’s active, but I want to upload more videos.
嗯，YouTube 频道 — 它处于活动状态，但我想上传更多视频。
Yes, I’m going to upload more videos on the YouTube channel.
是的，我将在 YouTube 频道上上传更多视频。
How many videos are on it now?
现在有多少视频了？
Probably only three.
大概只有三个。
There were more.
还有更多。
I took some of them off because I simply didn’t like the quality of them.
我把其中一些脱下来，因为我根本不喜欢它们的质量。
Some of those were open tabs on my browser until I finished listening to them last night.
其中一些是我的浏览器上打开的选项卡，直到我昨晚听完为止。
What’s your goal with the YouTube channel?
您创建 YouTube 频道的目标是什么？
To promote language, talk more about language, give lessons in languages here and there, give some cultural advice along with it, have little snippets of conversations with other people.
为了推广语言，更多地谈论语言，到处教授语言课程，同时提供一些文化建议，与其他人进行一些对话的片段。
Just giving an example, “Hey, this can be done.
只是举个例子，“嘿，这是可以做到的。
This is something that’s not impossible.
这并不是不可能的事情。
If you want to visit this country, here are some important words and phrases to know.” Things of this manner.
如果你想访问这个国家，这里有一些重要的单词和短语需要了解。”事情是这样的。
Also, I’d like to focus on indigenous language as well — Nahuatl and other languages that are found throughout the North American continent.
另外，我还想关注土著语言 ——纳瓦特尔语和遍布北美大陆的其他语言。
Being a hyperpolyglot, what do you think would be something — other than the languages themselves — but something that you’ve learned that the rest of the world should know better than they do?
作为一个超级通晓多种语言的人，你认为除了语言本身之外还有什么是你已经了解到的、世界上其他人应该比他们更了解的东西？
Language is a key to someone’s culture, to someone’s world, even if you do not happen to be in that person’s country at that time.
语言是了解某人文化、某人世界的钥匙，即使你当时不在那个人的国家。
It’s very sacred, and it’s very private for some people.
它非常神圣，对某些人来说非常私密。
Not everyone will be very open to immediately speaking to you in their own language, but the majority of the people that I approach or I’ll ask about — they have this very pleasant reaction to it.
并不是每个人都愿意立即用自己的语言与你交谈，但我接触或询问的大多数人都会对此有非常愉快的反应。
Then when you get into learning the language, you start to think in a different way.
然后当你开始学习语言时，你开始以不同的方式思考。
You realize every language works differently.
您意识到每种语言的工作方式都不同。
It makes people think differently.
它使人们有不同的思考。
There are the nuances of how the words work when you put them together, but then, when you learn the language, you realize there’s more to it.
当你把这些词放在一起时，它们的运作方式存在细微差别，但是当你学习这门语言时，你会意识到它还有更多的内容。
There’s a soul to the language.
语言是有灵魂的。
It’s like you’re starting to become this new miniature other-person version of yourself when you use that language.
当您使用这种语言时，就好像您开始成为自己的新微型他人版本。
It comes with the native speaker’s sense of home, sense of belonging, sense of identity.
它带有母语人士的家感、归属感、认同感。
Language is identity for many people, and it’s much more than just mimicking words.
语言对许多人来说是身份认同，它不仅仅是模仿单词。
It’s knowing what phrases to use, being sensitive to another language speaker’s cultural needs, and you find out it’s like you’re going into a different world.
它是知道使用什么短语，对另一种语言使用者的文化需求保持敏感，然后你会发现你就像进入了一个不同的世界。
Recent immigrants aside, as you know, most Americans speak only American English.
如您所知，除了新移民之外，大多数美国人只说美式英语。
Do you foresee that changing in the future?
您预计未来情况会发生变化吗？
Do you think they will find persuasive what, to me, are quite significant reasons to learn other languages?
您认为他们会认为对我来说学习其他语言的重要理由有说服力吗？
Most people don’t do it, don’t even really try very hard.
大多数人都没有这样做，甚至没有真正努力去尝试。
No. When you say most people don’t try really hard —
不。当你说大多数人并没有真正努力时 ——
In America.
在美国。
Europe can be different, other parts of the world different.
欧洲可能不同，世界其他地区也可能不同。
But if you’re not connected to the language through your parents or where you were born .
但是，如果您没有通过父母或出生地与该语言建立联系。
.
。
.
。
Some people learn Spanish, fewer yet learn French, a tiny number try Chinese, but not much happens here, right?
有些人学习西班牙语，少数人学习法语，极少数人尝试中文，但这里发生的事情并不多，对吗？
No.
不。
Is that going to change?
这种情况会改变吗？
Yes and no. I think that in places where it’s a requirement to know a second language in order to get a job somewhere, of course, a lot of people are going to seek that out.
是和不是。我认为，在需要掌握第二语言才能找到工作的地方，当然，很多人都会寻求这一点。
I’ve noticed a difference between the generations.
我注意到几代人之间的差异。
Me, being in my early 20s and mid-20s, I met people from Louisville, Kentucky, or from some city in Indiana that are learning Russian.
我当时 20 岁出头和 20 多岁，遇到了来自肯塔基州路易斯维尔或印第安纳州某个城市正在学习俄语的人。
That really was not so much the case when my father was in his 20s.
当我父亲 20 多岁的时候，情况确实并非如此。
There were immigration people.
有移民。
Italians would come to the house, they’d get a place.
意大利人会来到这所房子，他们会得到一个地方。
They’d just speak English.
他们只会说英语。
It’s like, “No, it’s America, it’s time to be American.
就像，“不，这是美国，是时候成为美国人了。
We need to forget Italian.” It’s just English, English, English.
我们需要忘记意大利语。”这只是英语，英语，英语。
I see this sentiment repeated when I meet others.
当我遇到其他人时，我看到这种情绪重复出现。
I’ll go to New York, and I’ll see Italians, and they’re a generation older than myself, and they’ll say, “No, when my parents came from Italy, they spoke only English because they wanted us to learn only English.”
我会去纽约，我会看到意大利人，他们比我大一代，他们会说，“不，当我的父母来自意大利时，他们只说英语，因为他们希望我们只学英语。”
There was already a big difference between the 1940s, 1950s and that time would be, I’d say, the 1990s, where it’s like, “No, globalization is happening.
20 世纪 40 年代、1950 年代和 1990 年代之间已经存在很大差异，“不，全球化正在发生。
There’s more business, there’s more incentive to learn another language.” They’re teaching foreign language in high school.
生意越多，学习另一种语言的动力就越大。”他们在高中教外语。
They are starting to come up with immersion schools, where the kids — they’re taught bilingually starting with even kindergarten or first grade.
他们开始创办浸入式学校，孩子们从幼儿园或一年级开始就接受双语教学。
I see that trend.
我看到了这种趋势。
That’s already a very big difference there.
这已经是一个很大的区别了。
Will it continue?
会继续吗？
Yes, I think it will continue more as you have more immigration.
是的，我认为随着移民数量的增加，这种情况将会持续下去。
You have much more trade, open markets between nations.
国家之间有更多的贸易和开放的市场。
And certainly, there is a potential for the increase of interest in language learning, especially in the urban areas, people looking for IT, lawyers, jobs such as these, this kind of employment, or it’s white-collar work — then, yes.
当然，人们对语言学习的兴趣有可能会增加，尤其是在城市地区，人们正在寻找 IT、律师、诸如此类的工作、此类工作或白领工作 ——那么，是的。
There’s still always going to be that population that is not exposed to it.
仍然总会有一些人没有接触到它。
They’ll just simply continue with English only, and that will continue as it is.
他们只会继续只使用英语，就这样继续下去。
What do you think of media coverage of hyperpolyglots?
您如何看待媒体对多语言的报道？
Is it accurate, off base, fair, balanced?
它是否准确、偏离事实、公平、平衡？
I really haven’t seen enough media coverage to —
我真的没有看到足够多的媒体报道来 ——
There’s an article about you.
有一篇关于你的文章。
Probably you read it, right?
也许你读过，对吧？
Yes.
是的。
Did it capture the essence of you?
它抓住了你的本质吗？
I think it was a very well-put-together story.
我认为这是一个组织得非常好的故事。
It was a little bit different from what I expected because it was .
这与我的预期有点不同，因为它确实如此。
.
。
.
。
I thought that the story was going to concentrate on just me being a polyglot and languages and such.
我以为这个故事会集中在我是一个多语言和语言等等的人身上。
But no, the way the story was told — it was a very pleasant surprise, I would say.
但不，故事的讲述方式——我想说，这是一个非常令人惊喜的惊喜。
A very beautifully written piece.
一篇写得很漂亮的作品。
It was just a lot larger than I thought it would be, a very nicely put together story.
它比我想象的要大得多，是一个非常好的故事。
But I haven’t seen other articles on other hyperpolyglots or polyglots that would give me any sort of comparison.
但我还没有看到其他关于其他超级多语言者或多语言者的文章可以给我任何形式的比较。
How do people in Mexico respond differently to you being a hyperpolyglot than people in America?
墨西哥人和美国人对你是一个多语言者的反应有何不同？
Are they more shocked, or they just take it in stride?
他们是更加震惊，还是只是泰然自若？
I think it’s a toss-up.
我认为这是一个折腾。
It’s all of them.
都是他们。
There are people that are very shocked.
有人非常震惊。
There are people that just take it in stride.
有些人只是泰然处之。
If I’m in Mexico City, I think that’s where I get the most surprise, or if I am in any of the touristy areas where there are hostels.
如果我在墨西哥城，我想那是我最惊讶的地方，或者如果我在任何有旅馆的旅游区。
I could go to Orizaba.
我可以去奥里萨巴。
I could go to the south, to the village, and say, “Oh, I know all these languages.” They get this wide-eyed look on their face, and they would think, “Oh, wow, that’s pretty impressive.” But then, that’s the end of it.
我可以去南方的村庄，然后说：“哦，我懂所有这些语言。”他们脸上露出睁大眼睛的表情，他们会想：“哦，哇，这真是令人印象深刻。”但是，事情就这样结束了。
In contrast to that, I’ll be in the city of Oaxaca, where you have visitors from all over the world come through, and I’m at the hostel, and I’m speaking Irish Gaelic — funny enough, the most instances where I speak Irish Gaelic are in Oaxaca because people from Ireland will go to Mexico instead of going to the US, and a lot of them speak Gaelic.
与此相反，我会在瓦哈卡市，那里有来自世界各地的游客经过，而我在旅馆，我说的是爱尔兰盖尔语 ——有趣的是，我说爱尔兰盖尔语的大多数情况是在瓦哈卡，因为来自爱尔兰的人会去墨西哥而不是去美国，而且他们中的很多人都说盖尔语。
They’ll hear me speak that language.
他们会听到我说那种语言。
I’ll speak Russian.
我会说俄语。
I’ll turn around and speak Czech to someone.
我会转身对某人说捷克语。
I’ve met people from Poland, from Serbia, from Croatia.
我见过来自波兰、塞尔维亚、克罗地亚的人。
When I’m switching from language to language, then the Mexicans themselves — they really see it happening.
当我从一种语言切换到另一种语言时，墨西哥人自己 ——他们真的看到了这一切的发生。
It’s a live show, and number one and number two, the Mexicans in Oaxaca — they’re in a place where they’re surrounded by languages, and it’s in their face.
这是一场现场表演，第一和第二是瓦哈卡州的墨西哥人——他们身处一个被语言包围的地方，语言就在他们的脸上。
It’s like, “Okay, there are these many languages.
就像，“好吧，有很多语言。
There isn’t only French, German, Spanish.”
不仅有法语、德语、西班牙语。”
But there’s Mixtec, there’s Zapotec, Nahuatl.
但有米斯特克语、萨巴特克语、纳瓦特尔语。
There must be at least 15 languages in Oaxaca.
瓦哈卡州至少有 15 种语言。
In Oaxaca, I think there are — yes, I think that’s about right.
在瓦哈卡，我认为有 ——是的，我认为这是正确的。
Fifteen, yes.
十五，是的。
When I’m talking about the Mexicans living in Oaxaca that are there — they look at these European languages and they think, “Okay, well, that’s what a real language is.” They still have this prejudicial downplay on their own indigenous languages.
当我谈论居住在瓦哈卡州的墨西哥人时，他们看着这些欧洲语言，然后想：“好吧，这就是真正的语言。”他们仍然对自己的土著语言抱有偏见。
The linguistic diversity in the state of Oaxaca is phenomenal, and the language is different, one from the other, much more so than the Germanic languages, for example, or the Romance languages.
瓦哈卡州的语言多样性是惊人的，并且语言彼此之间存在差异，比日耳曼语言或罗曼语言等差异更大。
That’s very easily overlooked by the majority of the urban population of Mexico.
这很容易被墨西哥大多数城市人口忽视。
Where do you still want to see in Mexico?
墨西哥你还想去哪里？
I would like to see el Cañón de Cobre .
我想去看看 el Cañón de Cobre 。
I’ll take that train ride.
我会乘坐那趟火车。
I’ve never done that.
我从来没有这样做过。
I’ve been to Chihuahua, but I didn’t have time, so that’s on my list as well.
我去过奇瓦瓦州，但我没有时间，所以那也在我的名单上。
Yes, definitely go there.
是的，一定要去那里。
I want to explore more of Chiapas.
我想探索更多恰帕斯州。
I want to meet up with my friend, Juan, who periodically teaches me.
我想见见我的朋友胡安，他定期教我。
He gives me little lessons in Tzotzil.
他给我上了一些有关 Tzotzil 的课程。
And spend more time in San Cristóbal de las Casas.
并在圣克里斯托瓦尔德拉斯卡萨斯度过更多时间。
Yes, those are some places I would like to spend some more time in, and see the north of Mexico as well.
是的，我想在这些地方多待一些时间，并参观墨西哥北部。
Central America?
中美洲？
Central America.
中美洲。
I’ve been to Belize already, but I would like to go back, of course.
我已经去过伯利兹了，但我当然想回去。
I would like to go to Guatemala.
我想去 危地马拉 。
There are countries where I cannot understand the people speaking English, and northern Scotland sometimes counts as that.
有些国家我听不懂人们说英语，苏格兰北部有时就是这样。
Do you have that issue?
你有这个问题吗？
Or you just hear through it somehow?
或者你只是以某种方式听到了？
It’s interesting.
这很有趣。
I think that recently —
我认为最近 ——
The Caribbean also can be hard for me when people speak English.
当人们说英语时，加勒比海地区对我来说也可能很困难。
Yes, it is English, but maybe I understand a third of it.
是的，是英语，但也许我听懂了三分之一。
Yes, I’ve met people from the Caribbean that I couldn’t tell if they were speaking English, a very heavy accented English, or it was a Creole.
是的，我遇到过来自加勒比海的人，我不知道他们说的是英语，口音很重的英语，还是克里奥尔语。
Or a mix sometimes.
或者有时混合使用。
Yes, they’ll blend the two.
是的，他们会把两者融合在一起。
They were saying staya, instead of stay.
他们说的是staya，而不是stay。
“He gon’ staya.” Really just very altered speech, but I could tell the base words were English, or at least part of it was.
“他会留下来。”实际上只是非常改变的言语，但我可以看出基本单词是英语，或者至少其中一部分是。
The conversation that I heard on the bus — I could make out what they were saying, but not live.
我在公交车上听到的谈话 —— 我能听清他们在说什么，但不是现场直播。
I’d listen to the whole sentence, put it together and say, “Oh, that’s what she said.”
我会听整个句子，将其组合起来说：“哦，她就是这么说的。”
As far as an example with Scottish English, I know how the islands, the land breaks up the further north you go.
就苏格兰英语为例，我知道越往北走，岛屿、土地就越分裂。
It’s my idea that the further north you go, the more distant the accent is, and the more difficult it is to understand.
我的想法是，越往北走，口音就越远，就越难听懂。
Have you ever studied Singlish, the Singaporean?
你学过新加坡人的新加坡式英语吗？
It used to be slang and a dialect.
它曾经是俚语和方言。
Now it’s almost becoming a language.
现在它几乎成为一种语言。
I don’t know of it, no.
我不知道，不。
Very hard for me to understand.
我很难理解。
How about Indian English?
印度英语怎么样？
Hinglish.
印度英语。
Is that the future of English?
这就是英语的未来吗？
Is that the future of English?
这就是英语的未来吗？
Well, it’s the present of English in India.
嗯，这是英语在印度的现在。
That’s for certain.
这是肯定的。
Sure.
当然。
Say 80 years from now, as possibly our birth rates fall — Indian birth rates are falling as well — but what will English be, do you think?
假设80年后，我们的出生率可能会下降 — 印度的出生率也在下降 — 但是英语会是什么样，你觉得呢？
Most of the speakers won’t be North Americans, right?
大多数演讲者不会是北美人，对吗？
It’s already the case.
已经是这样了。
Oh, I suppose each variant of English, where it is spoken, will — just going by the natural law of language — it’ll change, but I don’t see it becoming a big mush just yet, where it’s all uniform.
哦，我想英语的每种变体，无论在哪里，都会 —— 按照语言的自然法则 —— 它会改变，但我不认为它会变得一团糟，一切都是统一的。
English used to be uniform, and it went in the direction where, now, there are many different variations of English, many different accents.
英语曾经是统一的，而现在，英语有许多不同的变体，有许多不同的口音。
I don’t see it coming back together.
我不认为它会重新组合在一起。
As long as there are different areas where English is spoken, it’ll keep evolving in its own natural direction.
只要有不同的地区使用英语，它就会按照自己的自然方向不断发展。
If you meet a young person who has polyglot talent, and they ask you for advice, what do you tell them?
如果你遇到一个拥有多种语言天赋的年轻人，他们向你寻求建议，你会告诉他们什么？
Advice on what?
给什么建议？
Advice on learning or —
学习建议或 —
They’ll say, “Well, you’ve done it.” Let’s say I’m 18.
他们会说：“好吧，你已经做到了。”假设我 18 岁。
I’m a polyglot, a potential polyglot.
我是一个通晓多种语言的人，一个潜在的通晓多种语言的人。
I see I have this talent.
我发现我有这个天赋。
What is it I should know?
我应该知道什么？
You would just say stick with it?
你只是说坚持下去？
Yes, stick with it.
是的，坚持下去。
I’m assuming that if this person’s a polyglot, he or she already has developed a system for himself or herself as to the most effective way to learn.
我假设，如果这个人精通多种语言，他或她已经为自己开发了一个最有效的学习方法的系统。
I don’t need to give this person any learning advice.
我不需要给这个人任何学习建议。
So, the systems are different in your view?
那么，您认为这些系统有所不同吗？
Well, they could be different, but if someone’s a polyglot, that means that person came up with a system that was effective for himself or herself.
好吧，它们可能会有所不同，但如果某人精通多种语言，那就意味着该人想出了一个对自己有效的系统。
Then I wouldn’t give any linguistic advice.
那我就不会提供任何语言建议。
I would probably ask them, “What is it you want to do?” I would concentrate on having that person maybe focus on a very useful language, at least one.
我可能会问他们：“你想做什么？”我会集中精力让那个人专注于一种非常有用的语言，至少是一种。
At least one very useful language that would give that person an advantage in academia.
至少一种非常有用的语言可以让这个人在学术界占据优势。
For example, learn Russian, learn Spanish — one of these big languages.
例如，学习俄语、学习西班牙语——这些大语言之一。
Chinese.
中国人。
Mandarin Chinese, French.
普通话、法语。
Last question.
最后一个问题。
In young people — if they show some inclination, do you think you can spot polyglot talent?
在年轻人中 —— 如果他们表现出某种倾向，你认为你能发现多语言人才吗？
And if so, what is it you look for that a person might become someone like you, or they might stop at a mere seven languages and just call it a day?
如果是这样，您希望一个人成为像您一样的人，或者他们可能会停留在仅仅七种语言就到此为止？
Children that I’ve met that have special abilities — some of them being autistic — I would spend a few minutes each meeting, showing them something, quizzing them.
我遇到的具有特殊能力的孩子 ——“其中一些患有自闭症”—— 每次见面我都会花几分钟，向他们展示一些东西，并询问他们。
Some of these kids were very inclined to .
其中一些孩子非常倾向于这样做。
.
。
.
。
they were a math genius or they were good at science or good at physics.
他们是数学天才，或者擅长科学或擅长物理。
I’d ask them, “Okay, why is tungsten used as a filament in a bulb?” for example.
我会问他们：“好吧，为什么灯泡要用钨作为灯丝？”例如。
Most of the time, it was scientific quizzing.
大多数时候，这是科学测验。
Then after that, I would test them with language.
然后我会用语言来测试他们。
“Can you memorize this word?
“你能记住这个词吗？
What’s this called?” I’d start with English, of course.
这叫什么？”当然，我会从英语开始。
I’d point out 10 different things.
我会指出 10 件不同的事情。
“What are these called?” Then I’ll say, “Do you know any Spanish?” I’ll test them in Spanish, or I’ll test them in something else.
“这些叫什么？”然后我会说：“你懂西班牙语吗？”我会用西班牙语测试它们，或者用其他语言测试它们。
A lot of these are children of my friends, and my friends, knowing me, would like their children to learn Spanish, Portuguese, whatever it is that they think is useful for their child to learn, so I would go in and test them.
其中很多是我朋友的孩子，我的朋友了解我，希望他们的孩子学习西班牙语、葡萄牙语，任何他们认为对孩子有用的东西，所以我会进去测试他们。
Some of them — actually, they pick up very quickly on the words.
他们中的一些人——事实上，他们很快就能理解这些单词。
I think that part of it is the fact that they’re young.
我认为部分原因是他们还年轻。
They’re still at this age where they can absorb language very quickly.
他们还处于这个可以很快吸收语言的年龄。
After that, I would speak to my friends, the kids’ parents, and say, “Hey, this is a good way to go about it.
之后，我会和我的朋友、孩子的父母交谈，并说：“嘿，这是一个好方法。
Do this.”
做这个。”
I’ve met customers that speak German, but they only speak English to their kid.
我遇到过说德语的顾客，但他们只对孩子说英语。
I’d say, “Hey, teach your child your language.” They’ll say “Oh, really?” It’s like, why is this carpet cleaner telling them?
我会说，“嘿，教你的孩子你的语言。”他们会说“哦，真的吗？”就像，为什么地毯清洁工要告诉他们？
I would tell them, “Look, it’s important.
我会告诉他们，“看，这很重要。
Teach your child your language.
教你的孩子你的语言。
Speak to her in only German.
仅用德语与她交谈。
Don’t worry, she will learn.
别担心，她会学的。
There’s plenty of English all around.
周围有很多英语。
There will be no problem with her learning English.”
她学英语不会有任何问题。”
Some older people worry that if they teach their own language to their kids, it’ll somehow replace English.
一些老年人担心，如果他们教孩子自己的语言，它会以某种方式取代英语。
They won’t learn English at all.
他们根本不会学英语。
That’s simply not realistic because we live in a country where English is spoken.
这根本不现实，因为我们生活在一个说英语的国家。
Vaughn Smith, a real pleasure.
沃恩·史密斯，真的很高兴。
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。