Tyler Looks Back on 2019 (BONUS)

I love going to a hotel, often a bad one, when all they have is cereal.

我喜欢去酒店，但通常是一家很糟糕的酒店，因为那里只有麦片。

And then I can have it again and I don’t have to feel guilty.

然后我就可以再次拥有它，我不必感到内疚。

And I won’t have it any other time.

其他时间我不会有它。

Actually one of my questions for you Tyler was what your favorite packaged grocery store item is.

事实上，泰勒，我问你的问题之一是你最喜欢的杂货店包装商品是什么。

So I know you love chocolate.

所以我知道你喜欢巧克力。

But besides that, if you were buying a packaged good off the shelf in a grocery store, what’s your favorite thing?

但除此之外，如果您在杂货店购买现成的包装商品，您最喜欢的东西是什么？

Well the funny thing is, I don’t really buy any packaged goods.

有趣的是，我真的不买任何包装商品。

So I hardly buy any canned goods.

所以我很少买罐头食品。

I love Goya small white beans.

我喜欢戈雅小白豆。

I cook them with chili and I love Goya small red beans.

我用辣椒煮它们，我喜欢戈雅小红豆。

I cook them with Mexican dishes.

我用墨西哥菜做它们。

But I’ll buy fruit, vegetables, meat, fish, cheese, and very little processed or packaged.

但我会买水果、蔬菜、肉、鱼、奶酪，以及很少的加工或包装食品。

I can’t even think offhand.

我什至无法立即思考。

If you count smoked trout wrapped in plastic, that’s a kind of package.

如果算上用塑料包裹的熏鳟鱼，那就是一种包装。

But it’s still basically buying fish.

但基本上还是买鱼。

Yeah, so you follow the health advice where you stay around the perimeter of the grocery store and you’re in the fresh fruits and you’re in the meats, but you’re not in those interior aisles where they typically are stocking the candy bars and potato chips and things like that.

是的，所以你遵循健康建议，呆在杂货店的周围，你吃的是新鲜水果和肉类，但你不在那些通常存放糖果和薯片之类的东西的内部过道里。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

But I’m not sure it’s motivated by health.

但我不确定这是出于健康原因。

I just like the other items better.

我只是更喜欢其他物品。

But you said cereal.

但你说的是麦片。

So is cereal one of those foods for you that you indulge in at hotels but you won’t buy it for yourself now?

那么，麦片是不是你在酒店里常吃但现在不会自己买的食物之一呢？

I don’t buy it ever.

我从来不买。

And I only indulge in bad hotels.

而我只沉迷于糟糕的酒店。

Like if I’m staying in Menlo Park where the hotels are bad unless you’re paying a lot.

就像我住在门洛帕克，那里的酒店很糟糕，除非你花很多钱。

And they’ll just have like cereal and bad eggs and bacon.

他们只会吃麦片、坏鸡蛋和培根。

I’ll just have the corn flakes.

我只要玉米片。

But it’s so delicious.

但它实在太好吃了。

And to do that five times a year makes me very happy.

每年做五次让我非常高兴。

A story known at Mercatus and is part of the lore of Tyler is that when you were studying in Germany, you had someone ship you cereal.

Mercatus 流传着一个故事，也是泰勒传说的一部分：当你在德国学习时，有人给你寄麦片。

That’s correct.

这是正确的。

This is before you had your awakening.

这是在你觉醒之前。

Tell us that story.

告诉我们那个故事。

I think you can get away more with eating cereal when you’re younger.

我认为年轻时多吃麦片可以避免更多的问题。

But I had a favorite cereal which then was Product 19, and it was very hard to get in Germany.

但我有一种最喜欢的麦片，当时是 Product 19，在德国很难买到。

The only place you could get it was at American Army bases.

唯一能得到它的地方是美国陆军基地。

And then you had to pretend to be part of the American Armed Services, which involved costs of its own.

然后你必须假装是美国武装部队的一部分，这本身就涉及成本。

So, one very nice person working at Mercatus sent me a bunch of boxes of Product 19.

因此，Mercatus 的一位非常友善的工作人员给我寄来了一堆产品 19 的盒子。

The first Mercatus export maybe in a way was Tyler Cowen and Product 19.

在某种程度上，Mercatus 的第一个出口可能是 Tyler Cowen 和 Product 19。

That’s correct.

这是正确的。

To Germany.

去德国。

So when was that?

那是什么时候？

What year was that?

那是哪一年？

That must have been 1984, possibly ’85.

那一定是 1984 年，也可能是 85 年。

’85 I think.

’85我想。

And when was your awakening in terms of food?

你在食物方面的觉醒是什么时候？

So it wasn’t —

所以这不是——

In Germany.

在德国。

That was the year.

就是那一年。

So I was starting to experiment.

所以我开始尝试。

I think I was 23 when I went.

我记得我去的时候才23岁。

In graduate school.

在研究生院。

And then I got to Germany and everything was different.

然后我到了德国，一切都不同了。

So if you’re thrown out of your status quo, you’ll experiment with many other things too.

因此，如果你被抛弃了现状，你也会尝试许多其他的事情。

I think that’s an interesting general principle.

我认为这是一个有趣的一般原则。

I think my first Indian food was when I was living in Germany.

我想我第一次吃印度菜是在我住在德国的时候。

How was it?

它怎么样？

In my mind it’s the first time I had a curry.

在我看来，这是我第一次吃咖喱。

So it was pretty tasty.

所以非常好吃。

Yeah.

是的。

And it was one of my favorite things and I thought “this is amazing” and it just happened to be in Germany.

这是我最喜欢的事情之一，我觉得“这太棒了”，而它恰好发生在德国。

Yeah.

是的。

So my experience bears that out a little bit too.

所以我的经验也证明了这一点。

I will fail all of the memory tests.

我将无法通过所有记忆测试。

I’m very focused on the next podcast, just to be clear.

需要澄清的是，我非常关注下一个播客。

As my producer tells me to be.

正如我的制片人告诉我的那样。

Yes.

是的。

Well that is the prime directive for Conversations with Tyler.

嗯，这是《与泰勒对话》的主要指令。

But we’re here at the end of the year.

但我们在今年年底来到这里。

Actually all of our episodes through the end of the year have been recorded but we do have always more in the queue, more in the pipeline.

事实上，我们截至今年年底的所有剧集都已录制完毕，但我们确实总是有更多的节目在排队，更多的节目正在制作中。

Your prep is as intensive as ever.

你的准备工作一如既往地紧张。

How many total this year?

今年总共有多少？

Do you have a count?

你有数吗？

Nearly 30.

快30了。

Wow, that’s a lot.

哇，这么多。

Starting last year we started releasing every other week and then we usually have a few bonus episodes.

从去年开始，我们开始每隔一周发布一次，然后我们通常会有一些奖励剧集。

This year that was true to form as well.

今年也是如此。

So we do minimum now about 26 and then usually there’s a few extra.

所以我们现在至少做 26 个左右，然后通常还会有一些额外的。

And so as you look back over those episodes and you have the list in front of you, what strikes you about it?

因此，当您回顾这些剧集时，清单就摆在您面前，其中什么让您印象深刻？

Can you keep up the pace?

你能跟上节奏吗？

I think I can.

我想我可以。

I felt it was an incredible year.

我觉得这是不可思议的一年。

Our best guests, maybe the most diverse group, very few weak episodes.

我们最好的嘉宾，也许是最多元化的群体，很少有薄弱的情节。

And for me, basically a thrill each time.

对我来说，每次基本上都是一种兴奋。

People I thought I’d never have a chance to do a podcast with and here they are.

我以为我永远没有机会和他们一起做播客，但他们就在这里。

Have you had to adapt your research process to accommodate more guests?

您是否必须调整您的研究流程以适应更多的客人？

And I think we have more guests on that you’re not as familiar with that you can’t just rely on a base knowledge, you really do have to get in at a ground level.

我认为我们有更多的客人，你不太熟悉，你不能仅仅依靠基础知识，你真的必须从底层开始。

Not just read everything they’ve done, but maybe get more of the contextual work down.

不仅要阅读他们所做的一切，而且也许还要了解更多相关的内容。

Have you adjusted or you just go for it and you’ve just had to shift other priorities?

你是否已做出调整，或者你只是继续努力而不得不改变其他优先事项？

I’ve had to shift other priorities.

我不得不改变其他优先事项。

Economists are the easiest to prep for.

经济学家是最容易准备的。

Like in principle, you can try doing it with no prep.

就像原则上一样，您可以尝试在没有任何准备的情况下进行操作。

Ed Boyden was one of the hardest, because he studies the brain.

埃德·博伊登是最难的人之一，因为他研究大脑。

And even Ed will tell you, we don’t understand the brain.

甚至艾德也会告诉你，我们不了解大脑。

So if Ed doesn’t understand the brain, how well do you think I understand the brain?

那么，如果艾德不了解大脑，你认为我对大脑的了解程度如何？

But I still have to ask him some questions.

但我还是要问他一些问题。

Knausgård, I had to revisit a lot of Norwegian literature, which I had already read, but that wasn’t actually very easy.

Knausgård，我不得不重新审视很多我已经读过的挪威文学，但这实际上并不容易。

That was an especially difficult prep.

这是一个特别困难的准备。

And anytime I have to read fiction, which I just read slower.

每当我必须读小说时，我只是读得慢一些。

I’s not the fault of the author.

我不是作者的错。

Neal Stephenson was a very difficult prep.

尼尔·史蒂芬森是一个非常困难的准备者。

Long books.

长书。

Long books.

长书。

And you can’t just breeze through them because like you’ve absorbed the material in some other capacity.

你不能只是轻松地浏览它们，因为就像你已经以其他能力吸收了这些材料一样。

And then Jordan Peterson’s a hard prep.

乔丹·彼得森 (Jordan Peterson) 的准备工作也很辛苦。

Not that he’s written that much, but there’s so much of him on YouTube.

并不是说他写了那么多，而是 YouTube 上有很多他的作品。

And you can only listen to it that quickly.

而且你只能这么快地听。

And you’ve got to decide, what am I going to do about this guy?

你必须决定，我该怎么对付这个人？

At some point you just drop it and you put your energy into thinking through, how should the conversation actually be?

在某些时候，你会放下它，投入精力思考，对话实际上应该如何进行？

But the hardest prep of all was Emily Wilson who translated Homer.

但最困难的准备工作是翻译荷马的艾米丽·威尔逊。

In a way that was mainly one book, but it was one book I had to read about five times.

从某种意义上说，这主要是一本书，但这是一本我必须读五遍的书。

And it’s a very hard book.

这是一本非常难的书。

So that was like the single killer prep for me during the year.

所以这就像我这一年里的单一杀手准备。

And that was very rewarding.

这是非常有益的。

But that was tough.

但这很艰难。

Let me give you a rundown of the stats.

让我给你一个统计数据的概要。

So do you have a sense of what was the most popular podcast this year?

那么您知道今年最受欢迎的播客是什么吗？

No idea whatsoever.

一点也不知道。

Are you allowed to tell me?

你可以告诉我吗？

Sure.

当然。

I’m benchmarking this in the first week of release to —

我在发布的第一周对此进行了基准测试——

Okay, fair enough.

好吧，很公平。

To control for episode age.

控制剧集年龄。

But the most popular podcast in the first week was Jordan Peterson.

但第一周最受欢迎的播客是乔丹·彼得森。

Not surprising.

并不奇怪。

No, of course not.

不，当然不是。

Jordan Peterson was by far the most downloaded in the first week.

乔丹·彼得森 (Jordan Peterson) 是迄今为止第一周下载次数最多的。

And that was closer to his popularity peak than today.

那比今天更接近他的人气巅峰。

Yes.

是的。

And I thought a very good conversation.

我认为这是一次非常好的谈话。

Because I’ve reviewed the conversations leading up to this and I was surprised at how — as you say, Jordan Peterson’s a very exposed person.

因为我回顾了导致这一切的对话，我很惊讶——正如你所说，乔丹·彼得森是一个非常暴露的人。

A lot out there.

那里有很多。

But I found a lot of what he said very good.

但我发现他说的很多话都很好。

And it was actually and conversation, which is not always the case, right?

事实上，这就是谈话，但情况并非总是如此，对吧？

That’s true.

这是真的。

I thought his comments on fame and having to be careful, I thought he revealed something about himself that was very interesting.

我认为他对名誉和必须小心的评论，我认为他透露了一些关于自己的非常有趣的事情。

I encourage everyone, if you’re new, you should definitely check that out.

我鼓励大家，如果你是新手，你一定应该检查一下。

Most underrated.

最被低估的。

I suppose I think that’s going to be Knausgård, who was brilliant but highly literary and very much into things Norwegian.

我想那是克瑙斯加德，他很聪明，但文学性很强，而且非常喜欢挪威语。

So my guess is that did not get the number of listeners it deserved.

所以我的猜测是，它没有得到应有的听众数量。

But I’ll defer to you.

但我会听从你的。

You’ve to the data.

你需要数据。

I’m not equating it necessarily with listens, but that is true.

我并不一定将其等同于聆听，但事实确实如此。

I think Knausgård under performed relative to the quality of the conversation and how well he is known within literary circles.

我认为，相对于谈话的质量以及他在文学界的知名度，克瑙斯加德的表现不佳。

And for me, Knausgård was also a highlight.

对我来说，克瑙斯加德也是一个亮点。

It was fun also just to record that.

记录下来也很有趣。

It was in London.

那是在伦敦。

He left his black bread and we got to eat it.

他留下了他的黑面包，我们得吃。

He left his bread.

他留下了面包。

That was awesome.

太棒了。

It’s like, “I’m eating Knausgård’s black bread!”

就像，“我正在吃 Knausgård 的黑面包！”

Yes.

是的。

And there was a bag of pastries and we realized too late that he had left them.

还有一袋糕点，我们意识到他把它们留下了，为时已晚。

Apparently this is common for Knausgård — that he forgets things and leaves them behind.

显然，这对克瑙斯加德来说很常见——他忘记了事情并把它们抛在了身后。

I should confiscate the food from all of our guests and producers.

我应该没收所有客人和生产者的食物。

We divvied it up amongst you, your wife, and myself and another producer who was sick and I don’t think got to enjoy it.

我们把它分配给你、你的妻子、我自己以及另一位生病的制片人，我认为不能享受它。

One of those pastries I brought all the way back to the states and my wife even enjoyed one of Knausgård’s pastries.

其中一种糕点是我一路带回美国的，我的妻子甚至很喜欢克瑙斯加德的一种糕点。

But I also loved that conversation because he talked about fatherhood and writing in a way that I found very affecting as someone with a young child.

但我也喜欢那次谈话，因为他谈论父亲身份和写作的方式对我来说非常有影响力，作为一个有小孩的人。

So even as someone who’s never read Knausgård, which is me, I thought it was a great conversation.

因此，即使作为一个从未读过《克瑙斯加德》的人，也就是我，我也认为这是一次很棒的对话。

The best part of that was his opening look, which is not on the audio or the transcript.

其中最好的部分是他的开场造型，这并没有出现在音频或文字记录中。

It was clear he’s sick and tired of doing media.

很明显，他已经厌倦了做媒体。

And he got the first question and his eyes shifted as he realized, this was going to be an actual conversation.

当他听到第一个问题时，他的眼睛移动了，因为他意识到这将是一次真正的对话。

And that was maybe the CWT highlight of the year for me, was to see Knausgård’s eyes shift and just how quickly and how smartly he realized that he was in for something different.

对我来说，这也许是今年 CWT 的亮点，就是看到 Knausgård 的目光转变，以及他多么迅速、多么聪明地意识到自己正面临着一些不同的事情。

It did not take him long.

他没花多长时间。

Yes.

是的。

In editing these we do take out pregnant pauses and people do stop to think.

在编辑这些内容时，我们确实去掉了一些有意义的停顿，人们也确实停下来思考。

That’s something I know people wonder about, because sometimes the conversation seems so fast paced.

我知道人们对此感到好奇，因为有时谈话节奏似乎很快。

And usually they are.

通常情况下都是如此。

But sometimes guests do take a moment and they think about something.

但有时客人确实会花一点时间思考一些事情。

Do I do that?

我这样做吗？

I don’t think so — Carter’s shaking his head no. I don’t edit them anymore.

我不这么认为——卡特摇头说不。我不再编辑它们了。

I don’t think we’re cutting out pauses for you as much and actually I think for guests it’s — they don’t have the time to regroup because you’re so fast.

我不认为我们会为你减少太多的停顿，实际上我认为对于客人来说，他们没有时间重新组合，因为你太快了。

I’ve definitely heard that from guests.

我肯定是从客人那里听到的。

That the pace is thrown off for them.

他们的步伐被甩掉了。

While we try to leave in a hint of when there was a pause, we do condense and tighten.

当我们试图留下一丝停顿的痕迹时，我们确实会压缩和收紧。

So these people aren’t always super humans.

所以这些人并不总是超人。

So which is the most underrated according to you?

那么您认为哪个是最被低估的？

I would say, Knausgård and the other one I would say is Emily Wilson.

我想说的是 Knausgård，另一位我想说的是 Emily Wilson。

I was going to say that, so we agree actually.

我正要这么说，所以我们实际上同意。

Yeah.

是的。

And Emily was fantastic.

艾米丽太棒了。

Yeah.

是的。

But Homer is not the biggest draw with our audience.

但荷马并不是最吸引我们观众的。

But she was perfect.

但她很完美。

She knows everything.

她什么都知道。

There was something just mellifluous about the whole rhythm of the dialog.

整个对话的节奏非常流畅。

And she is someone who has found a way to use Twitter effectively to market and story tell about her work as a translator.

她找到了一种方法，可以有效地利用 Twitter 来营销和讲述她作为翻译的工作。

And she’s a great Twitter follow.

她是推特上的一大关注者。

So that’s an underrated aspect of Emily Wilson.

所以这是艾米丽·威尔逊被低估的一个方面。

So yeah, those would be my two top picks for underrated conversations.

所以，是的，这将是我最喜欢的两个被低估的对话。

Well I didn’t think Mark Zuckerberg would ask me.

嗯，我没想到马克·扎克伯格会问我。

That was a surprise.

这是一个惊喜。

I said yes.

我说是的。

That would be the biggest surprise.

这将是最大的惊喜。

The physical setting of the chat with Alain Bertaud, where the World Trade Center had been.

与阿兰·贝尔托聊天的实际场景是世界贸易中心所在的地方。

That overlook site where all of New York was around with the open windows.

那个俯瞰整个纽约的地方，窗户都开着。

And as the chat proceeded, it turned to dark and the lights came out.

随着聊天的进行，天色渐渐暗下来，灯也灭了。

Again, the listeners have no sense of that.

再说一次，听众对此没有任何感觉。

But for me, that was pretty incredible.

但对我来说，这实在是太不可思议了。

Yes.

是的。

We were on top of One World Trade Center for that conversation and we did it right at sunset and it was a special event for that reason.

我们在世贸中心一号大楼的顶层进行了那次谈话，我们是在日落时分进行的，因此这是一次特殊的活动。

The subject matter, the setting.

主题、背景。

Kudos to our event producer for that.

为此，我们向我们的活动制作人表示敬意。

Caitlyn Schmidt, she did a great job.

凯特琳·施密特，她做得很好。

Margaret Atwood making fun of me and the art collection in Kwame Anthony Appiah’s home.

玛格丽特·阿特伍德取笑我和夸梅·安东尼·阿皮亚家里的艺术收藏。

Those are two other very memorable moments.

这是另外两个非常难忘的时刻。

And that will come up.

这将会出现。

Actually I’ll use that to transition to a segment I’m going to slip in at various points in the conversation.

实际上，我将用它来过渡到我将在对话中的各个点插入的部分。

We’re going to do Name That Production Function.

我们要命名那个生产函数。

So I’ve gone through — and obviously a recurring theme is that you ask about their production function.

所以我已经经历过——显然一个反复出现的主题是你询问他们的生产函数。

Sometimes explicitly, sometimes it just comes up organically where they talk about how they do what they do.

有时是明确的，有时只是在他们谈论他们如何做他们所做的事情时有机地出现。

So I’ve grouped them into different themes.

所以我将它们分为不同的主题。

Before you do that, I just want to say, it’s one of my core views.

在你这样做之前，我只想说，这是我的核心观点之一。

We should just study successful people more.

我们应该多研究成功人士。

Like how’d they do this?

就像他们是怎么做到的？

Yes.

是的。

And there’s a very superficial version of that in the media all the time.

媒体上一直有一个非常肤浅的版本。

But like actually trying to figure out how they did it.

但实际上就像试图弄清楚他们是如何做到的。

To me it’s one of the most interesting topics.

对我来说，这是最有趣的话题之一。

Well on that question, when people give their production function, how much do you believe they’re aware of it?

那么关于这个问题，当人们给出他们的生产函数时，你相信他们在多大程度上意识到了这一点？

Let’s say for a CWT guest, how often do you think this is actually true or this is something they think, but is not the true production function?

假设对于 CWT 嘉宾，您有多少次认为这实际上是正确的，或者这是他们的想法，但不是真正的生产函数？

I don’t think it’s untrue.

我不认为这是不真实的。

But I think on average they’re too modest and they’re not quite willing to express their sheer ruthlessness at being successful in a way.

但我认为平均而言，他们太谦虚了，而且不太愿意表达自己在某种程度上取得成功时的冷酷无情。

And the glee they take in that.

他们对此感到高兴。

So it’s a biased estimate, I would say.

所以我想说，这是一个有偏差的估计。

Yeah.

是的。

One of my things that I’m always curious to hear people name in a production function is the people that surround them, the team they’ve built.

我总是好奇地想听到人们在生产职能中提及的一件事是他们周围的人，他们建立的团队。

And sometimes it may be more of a leadership team, but sometimes it might just people who are very good at using producers, say.

有时可能更多的是一个领导团队，但有时可能只是非常擅长使用生产者的人。

Or people like administrative assistants and how that plays into people’s production function and allows them to focus on the things that really matter.

或者人们喜欢行政助理，以及这如何影响人们的生产功能并让他们专注于真正重要的事情。

I know this is something that people talk about in academia some as well — that academics tend to get saddled with a lot of administrative work.

我知道这也是人们在学术界谈论的事情——学者往往背负着大量的行政工作。

But honestly, I think one of the underrated aspects of any person’s production function is the extent to which they can plug into an infrastructure and have certain things just not be a focus of worry for them.

但老实说，我认为任何人的生产功能都被低估的方面之一是他们可以在多大程度上插入基础设施并让某些事情不再成为他们担心的焦点。

And Ed Boyden saw that.

艾德·博伊登看到了这一点。

But a lot of our guests didn’t emphasize it.

但我们的很多客人并没有强调这一点。

And I feel that’s another bias.

我觉得这是另一种偏见。

By being excessively modest, they’re in some bizarre way also being too egocentric.

由于过于谦虚，他们在某种程度上也过于以自我为中心。

Yeah.

是的。

They’re not talking about, like how am I good at building a team or letting someone else build a team around me.

他们不是在谈论，比如我如何擅长建立一个团队，或者让其他人围绕我建立一个团队。

Okay.

好的。

So first theme in Name That Production Function.

所以第一个主题是命名生产函数。

Several guests gave answers related to physical space.

几位嘉宾给出了与物理空间相关的答案。

So the first one.

所以第一个。

“I have a very big desk from Ikea.

“我有一张宜家的大桌子。

I have a huge orange cat who’s mostly on it.

我有一只巨大的橙色猫，它大部分时间都在上面。

I also have a couple of Greek dictionaries, Greek texts, notebook.”

我还有几本希腊语词典、希腊语课本、笔记本。”

Sounds like Emily Wilson.

听起来像艾米丽·威尔逊。

But that’s a softball.

但这是垒球。

That’s a softball.

那是垒球。

So Emily Wilson really stressed having a big desk with a lot of texts around it.

因此，艾米丽·威尔逊（Emily Wilson）非常强调拥有一张大桌子，周围有很多文字。

She translates Homer.

她翻译了荷马史诗。

You need a big desk to do that.

你需要一张大桌子才能做到这一点。

And a big orange cat as well.

还有一只橙色的大猫。

And a cat, yes.

还有一只猫，是的。

And the Greek dictionaries.

还有希腊语词典。

Okay, second person who emphasized physical space.

好的，第二个人强调物理空间。

“I almost always work on the column at the weekend in the living room of our house in another state.”

“周末我几乎总是在另一个州家里的客厅里写专栏。”

In New Jersey.

在新泽西州。

That’s easy.

这很容易。

That’s Appiah.

那是阿皮亚。

Yeah.

是的。

So he said I work for six or seven hours and he emphasized that he can’t do certain work in certain spaces.

所以他说我工作六七个小时，他强调他不能在某些空间做某些工作。

He has a study, but he doesn’t do any work there.

他有一个研究室，但他在那里没有做任何工作。

Multiple locations are underrated.

多个地点被低估。

I have two offices.

我有两个办公室。

In Arlington, in Fairfax.

在阿灵顿，在费尔法克斯。

I used to have three.

我曾经有过三个。

And I work a lot at home and I work a lot now on the road.

我在家工作很多，现在在路上也工作很多。

Including going to these podcasts.

包括观看这些播客。

So that’s four different locations.

这是四个不同的位置。

On that question particularly, physical spaces, working on the road, do you have any tips or tricks?

特别是在这个问题上，物理空间，在路上工作，你有什么建议或技巧吗？

It’s been maybe my biggest productivity boost in the last two years.

这可能是我过去两年来最大的生产力提升。

I’ve learned how to work on the road much better.

我学会了如何更好地在路上工作。

I think I was always pretty good at it.

我想我一直都做得很好。

But now my productivity is maybe not even lower for most trips.

但现在对于大多数旅行来说，我的生产力可能并不低。

So I’m not sure what I did to get there.

所以我不确定我做了什么才到达那里。

Is it preserving the schedule or is it you’ve just figured out how to do work in incidental spots as you’re traveling?

是保留了日程安排还是您刚刚弄清楚如何在旅途中的偶然地点进行工作？

More the latter and learning greater flexibility.

更多的是后者，学习的灵活性更大。

So being able to write even if I’m just writing early in morning has been part of it.

因此，即使我只是在清晨写作，也能够写作是其中的一部分。

Right.

正确的。

I feel like you have to go into two spaces.

我觉得你必须进入两个空间。

You either have to try your best to preserve a schedule even when on the road or you have to get much, much better at just working where you can and not being precious about it.

你要么必须尽最大努力保留时间表，即使是在路上，要么你必须在能做的地方做得更好，而不是太珍惜它。

And I’ve done the latter without breaking my rigid schedule at home.

我在没有打破家里严格的日程安排的情况下完成了后者。

All right, so we’ll go back to production function, but now we’re going to …

好吧，我们将回到生产函数，但现在我们要……

Let’s do some listener questions.

让我们做一些听众问题。

So I asked for some questions on Twitter.

所以我在 Twitter 上问了一些问题。

And I picked some of my favorites.

我挑选了一些我最喜欢的。

This is still the conversation I want to have, so I did skip some.

这仍然是我想要进行的对话，所以我确实跳过了一些。

I think I’m very calm and it’s really quite rare that I have an unhappy day.

我觉得我很平静，很少有不开心的一天。

It’s hard for me to remember one.

我很难记住一个。

So this extreme evenness of temperament is actually a real thing.

所以说这种气质的极度均匀其实是真实存在的。

I guess that’s what it’s like being Tyler.

我想这就是泰勒的感觉。

It has some down sides, but it’s great for getting work done because your emotions are not distracting you from the task in front of you and it just happens.

它有一些缺点，但它对于完成工作很有帮助，因为你的情绪不会分散你对眼前任务的注意力，而事情就会自然而然地发生。

So that’s part of what it’s like being Tyler.

这就是泰勒的一部分。

I’ve never witnessed a Tyler tirade.

我从未见过泰勒长篇大论。

I think you never will.

我想你永远不会。

So I was a Tyler fan for many years, started reading Marginal Revolution in 2006, probably.

所以我多年来一直是泰勒的粉丝，大概是在 2006 年开始阅读《边际革命》。

And you know they say, “don’t meet your heroes.” That’s always a concern.

你知道他们说，“不要遇见你的英雄。”这始终是一个问题。

But I would say you are exactly as you appear to be.

但我想说的是，你就是你看上去的样子。

And meeting you has been great and working with you has been great.

认识您真是太棒了，和您一起工作也太棒了。

Thank you for the kind words.

谢谢你的客气话。

That you are exactly how I think most people perceive you to be.

我认为你正是大多数人所认为的那样。

There is no other dark side of Tyler.

泰勒没有其他阴暗面。

There is no Tyrone lurking in the shadows.

没有蒂龙潜伏在阴影中。

That’s a problem perhaps.

这也许是个问题。

But, I think it’s an interesting question.

但是，我认为这是一个有趣的问题。

Whether you should aspire to be better or worse than your public self.

你是否应该渴望比公众的自我更好或更差。

And you can make an argument either way.

无论哪种方式，你都可以提出论点。

So there are people who are just incredible when you read their writing.

所以当你读到有些人的作品时，他们会感到难以置信。

And when you meet them, there’s nothing wrong with them.

当你见到他们时，你会发现他们没有任何问题。

But you don’t get anything extra out of meeting them.

但与他们见面你不会得到任何额外的东西。

Yeah.

是的。

And I guess I feel that’s a worse way to be.

我想我觉得这是一种更糟糕的方式。

That if the person is better than the product, maybe in some ways the product is worse.

如果人比产品更好，也许在某些方面产品更糟糕。

It’s easier to exceed a lesser product.

超越较小的产品更容易。

But nonetheless, philosophically, that’s what I prefer in people, is for the person to be better than the product.

但尽管如此，从哲学上来说，这就是我更喜欢的人，是人比产品更好。

You have your product as writings and your thoughts that are out in the web, but I don’t think most people would consider you overexposed still or they feel like they’ve gotten to the depths of Tyler.

你有你的产品作为著作和你的想法在网络上公开，但我不认为大多数人会认为你仍然过度暴露，或者他们觉得他们已经深入到泰勒的深处。

And I think that maybe that time can come.

我认为也许那个时刻会到来。

Maybe there is a limit but I don’t think we found it yet.

也许有一个限制，但我认为我们还没有找到它。

One thing Jordan Peterson figured out, it’s one thing that made him successful, is there’s a certain way in which on the internet you can’t be overexposed.

乔丹·彼得森（Jordan Peterson）发现的一件事，也是让他成功的一件事，就是有一种特定的方式可以让你在互联网上不被过度曝光。

That if there’s just a steady stream of you, it feels like being overexposed compared to the standards of 1987 or whenever, but in fact it’s not and people are picking and choosing.

如果你源源不断地涌入，与 1987 年或任何时候的标准相比，感觉就像暴露过度，但事实上并非如此，人们正在挑选。

And you end up just dominating a particular space in a particular kind of way.

而你最终只是以一种特定的方式主宰一个特定的空间。

And I think most older people have not made that transition mentally to understanding how you should exist intellectually on the internet.

我认为大多数老年人还没有在心理上转变为理解你应该如何在互联网上理智地存在。

I’m sure it does feel like that to a Jordan Peterson.

我确信乔丹·彼得森确实有这种感觉。

I feel like in 2006, 2007, I could go on YouTube and watch literally every video that existed of you.

我觉得在 2006、2007 年，我可以在 YouTube 上观看几乎所有关于你的视频。

And now I can’t.

现在我不能了。

But I also choose not to watch some.

但我也选择不看一些。

I mean it’s amazing now if you had asked me 10, 12 years ago, oh there’s new Tyler content out.

我的意思是，如果你在 10 年前、12 年前问我，现在泰勒有新内容了，那真是太棒了。

And I still love it and I read Marginal Revolution every day, but I also do that filtering myself that I like, well I still have my canon or the core reading that I do.

我仍然喜欢它，我每天都读《边际革命》，但我也会过滤自己喜欢的内容，嗯，我仍然有我的经典或核心阅读。

Like one thing is, I almost never read your Bloomberg columns.

就像一件事一样，我几乎从未读过您的彭博专栏。

Yeah, it’s fine.

是的，没关系。

They’re for a different audience, which is not you.

它们是针对不同的受众，而不是你。

Yeah.

是的。

Well how do you think about that difference?

那么您如何看待这种差异？

If you think about Bloomberg, the first tier of readers are those people who subscribe to the terminals.

如果你想想彭博社，第一层读者就是那些订阅终端的人。

And a most of them are a finance audience.

其中大多数是金融观众。

They tend to be highly analytical, high income, with a particular set of interests.

他们往往分析能力强、收入高、有特定的兴趣。

And I think it’s fine, great to write for them.

我认为为他们写作很好，很棒。

I love them as an audience.

作为观众我爱他们。

But, they’re not like the blog audience or the CWT audience at all.

但是，他们根本不像博客受众或 CWT 受众。

So you’ve got sort of a portfolio now, you feel?

所以你觉得你现在已经有了一个投资组合了？

Yes.

是的。

How does the podcast fit into that?

播客如何融入其中？

Do you feel like you’re reaching a new or a bigger niche?

您是否觉得自己正在进入一个新的或更大的利基市场？

How does that sort for you?

这对你来说怎么样？

I mean, I don’t even know who I’m reaching.

我的意思是，我什至不知道我要联系谁。

When people see me in public, they now mention the podcast more than the blog.

当人们在公共场合看到我时，他们现在更多地提到播客而不是博客。

So that tells me something.

这告诉了我一些事情。

But part of the strategy is in a way to ignore the audience: “This is the conversation with person X that I want to have.” And it’s true.

但该策略的一部分是忽略观众：“这就是我想要与 X 进行的对话。”这是真的。

Because that’s the only reason to do it in a way.

因为这是以某种方式这样做的唯一理由。

It’s not an income earner.

它不是一个收入来源。

Should people approach you if they see you?

人们看到你时应该接近你吗？

Or do you-

或者你-

Depends who they are.

取决于他们是谁。

But if a listener to the podcast sees you in an airport or train station?

但如果播客的听众在机场或火车站看到您呢？

In the current equilibrium, I’m happy when they do.

在目前的均衡状态下，当他们这样做时我很高兴。

But I’m not sure it would be true across all margins.

但我不确定这在所有方面都是正确的。

Do you have rules of etiquette that you want us to communicate here and now?

您是否有希望我们此时此地交流的礼仪规则？

Say hello but —

打个招呼但是——

Yeah, sure.

是的，当然。

No reason not to.

没有理由不这样做。

Celebrities have to learn the rules here about you can say hello, but maybe no photos.

名人必须学习这里的规则，你可以打招呼，但也许不能拍照。

Do you have any of those?

你有这些吗？

You know, whatever a person wants, so.

你知道，一个人想要什么，就做什么。

Okay, you heard it.

好吧，你听到了。

Whatever you want.

任何你想要的。

But no, in the current equilibrium.

但在目前的均衡状态下，情况并非如此。

So this is a Lucas critique issue.

所以这是卢卡斯的批评问题。

Well let us know-

好吧，让我们知道-

If you announce the current equilibrium is fine —

如果你宣布当前的均衡很好——

It’s already shifted.

已经转移了。

It shifted already.

它已经转移了。

Yeah.

是的。

Okay, next question from Twitter.

好的，下一个问题来自 Twitter。

This is from Benjamin Fisher.

这是本杰明·费舍尔的作品。

“Does Tyler have any thoughts on the legacy of Robert Crumb?” Do you know Robert Crumb?

“泰勒对罗伯特·克拉姆的遗产有什么想法吗？”你认识罗伯特·克拉姆吗？

You mean the …created the comic books —

你的意思是……创造了漫画书——

Cartoonist.

漫画家。

That the movie’s about.

这部电影是关于的。

I’ve never really read them.

我从来没有真正读过它们。

I saw the preview for that movie many times and somehow it didn’t appeal to me.

我多次看过那部电影的预告片，但不知何故它对我没有吸引力。

And I haven’t read comic books since I was a kid when I read a lot of DC comics when I was quite young.

而且我从小就没有看过漫画书，很小的时候就看过很多DC漫画。

And my interest with it has died there.

我对它的兴趣已经消失了。

I’m not against it, but it just has not been a live thing for me, just like graphic novels are not a live thing for me.

我并不反对它，但它对我来说并不是一个有生命力的东西，就像图画小说对我来说不是一个有生命力的东西一样。

I love The Sandman series by Neil Gaiman, but most of them — just they don’t click with me somehow.

我喜欢尼尔·盖曼的《睡魔》系列，但其中大多数——只是不知怎的，它们不合我的胃口。

The fault is mine, I would readily admit.

错在我，我会欣然承认。

All right, we’re going to move off of listener questions and go back to production function.

好吧，我们将离开听众的问题并回到生产功能。

Here we go.

开始了。

All right, these are on writing habits.

好吧，这些都是关于写作习惯的。

First one, “I’ve never written as much as I have after I got the children.

第一个，“自从有了孩子之后，我写的东西从来没有像现在这样多过。

After I started to write at home.

后来我开始在家写作。

After I kind of-”

之后我有点——”

Knausgård.

诺斯加德。

Knausgård.

诺斯加德。

The Norwegian.

挪威人。

And as I mentioned, this was a part that really struck home with me.

正如我所提到的，这是一个真正让我印象深刻的部分。

He talked about trying to write and like literally lock himself in a Nordic lighthouse or whatever it was.

他谈到尝试写作，并且喜欢将自己锁在北欧灯塔或其他什么地方。

But he established a routine in the middle of life and I liked that so much that I put that as part of the title.

但他在人生中期建立了一个惯例，我非常喜欢这一点，所以我把它作为标题的一部分。

It became “less religious for him, less sacred.” All right, so that was Knausgård.

它变得“对他来说不再那么虔诚，不再那么神圣”。好吧，这就是克瑙斯加德。

I’m guessing a bit on this one, but Margaret Atwood?

我对这个有点猜测，但是玛格丽特·阿特伍德？

That’s MacFarquhar actually.

这实际上是麦克法夸尔。

MacFarquhar, okay.

麦克法夸尔，好吧。

All right, next one.

好吧，下一篇。

“When I first dreamed of being a writer, I thought I needed all these life experiences.

“当我第一次梦想成为一名作家时，我认为我需要所有这些生活经历。

I needed to go running with the bulls, be an alcoholic.

我需要和公牛一起奔跑，成为一个酒鬼。

Now I think just the opposite.

现在我的想法恰恰相反。

There’s plenty of stories out there.

那里有很多故事。

The things to write about are all around you and you need to discipline yourself, get your health right.

要写的事情就在你身边，你需要约束自己，保持健康。

I tend to be very careful about what I eat.

我往往对自己吃的东西非常小心。

I exercise.

我锻炼身体。

Running, yoga, getting my body right.

跑步、瑜伽、调整身体。

It’s not glamorous, but I feel like it benefits my work a lot.”

它并不光鲜亮丽，但我觉得这对我的工作有很大帮助。”

Sounds like Neal Stephenson.

听起来像尼尔·史蒂芬森。

It’s not Neal Stephenson.

这不是尼尔·史蒂芬森。

It’s not?

它不是？

Who’s your second guess?

你的第二个猜测是谁？

It sounds like a fiction author.

听起来像是小说家。

Running with the bulls?

与公牛一起奔跑？

It’s not fiction either, because —

这也不是虚构的，因为——

Who else would need to …

还有谁需要……

Ben Westhoff.

本·韦斯特霍夫.

Yeah, it was Ben Westhoff.

是的，他就是本·韦斯特霍夫。

Okay, journalist.

好吧，记者。

Okay last one on writing.

好吧，最后一篇关于写作。

This was one of my favorite answers of all production function answers.

这是所有生产函数答案中我最喜欢的答案之一。

“I could not do what I do if I was not zealous in managing high quality inputs into my mind every day in my life.

“如果我不热衷于每天在我的头脑中管理高质量的输入，我就无法完成我所做的事情。

That’s why I spend maybe two hours a day writing, I’m a writer…”

这就是为什么我每天大约花两个小时写作，我是一名作家……”

Sounds like me.

听起来像我。

“…but I spend three to four hours a day reading and two to three hours a day listening to music.

“……但我每天花三到四个小时阅读，每天花两到三个小时听音乐。

People think that’s creating a problem but I say no, this is the reason I am able to do this, because I have constant good quality input.

人们认为这会造成问题，但我说不，这就是我能够做到这一点的原因，因为我有持续的高质量输入。

That is the only reason I can maintain the output.”

这是我能够保持输出的唯一原因。”

I think only Ted Gioia would mention so many hours of music.

我想只有 Ted Gioia 会提到这么多小时的音乐。

Yes.

是的。

But it is also me.

但这也是我。

That would completely apply to me.

这完全适用于我。

He articulated something I think is very true of infovores generally, but I haven’t heard it I think on CWT yet is that idea that saving the time for the inputs is what allows you to do the thing.

他阐述了一些我认为对信息爱好者来说非常正确的观点，但我还没有听说过，我认为在 CWT 上，节省输入时间才能让你做这件事。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

And music always having a role in what’s going on as well.

音乐也总是在发生的事情中发挥作用。

Okay, back to some questions and we’ll move on from production function.

好吧，回到一些问题，我们将继续讨论生产函数。

So EV fellow Lama, she asked what cuisine would you serve if you had a restaurant?

所以EV的喇嘛同学，她问如果你有一家餐厅，你会提供什么菜？

I think it would be food from central Mexico and I would cook it.

我认为这将是来自墨西哥中部的食物，我会烹饪它。

That’s my favorite food to cook.

这是我最喜欢做的食物。

Like chicken mole is my best dish I think.

我认为鸡摩尔是我最好的菜。

How long does it take you to make a mole?

做一颗痣需要多长时间？

I’ve gotten it down to about an hour’s worth of labor time, but it has to sit overnight so it’s not ready in an hour.

我已经把它减少到大约一个小时的劳动时间，但它必须放置过夜，所以一小时内还没有准备好。

But if I rush and do it perfectly, my part of it is done in an hour and then the sauce sits overnight and then the next day the chicken roasts for about an hour and five, hour and 10 minutes.

但如果我急于完成，我的部分会在一小时内完成，然后酱汁放置过夜，然后第二天，鸡肉会烤大约一个小时五小时十分钟。

So it depends what you count.

所以这取决于你算什么。

But it feels like it takes an hour.

但感觉需要一个小时。

And what style is it?

它是什么风格？

Is it like a chocolaty mole?

它像巧克力痣吗？

Chocolaty mole.

巧克力痣。

Another question from Mercatus scholar Emily Hamilton, who works on affordable housing, land use: “What do you think of fast casual architecture?” Have you heard that term?

Mercatus 学者艾米丽·汉密尔顿 (Emily Hamilton) 提出的另一个问题是，她致力于经济适用房和土地利用方面的研究：“您对快速休闲建筑有何看法？”你听说过这个词吗？

I don’t think I know the term.

我想我不知道这个词。

What does she mean by that?

她这话是什么意思？

Think of something like the Wharf in southwest D.C. where it’s a big master plan.

想想像华盛顿特区西南部的码头这样的地方，那里有一个很大的总体规划。

It’s kind of this upper middle class development.

这就是上层中产阶级的发展。

They bring in a lot of higher end retailers.

他们引进了很多高端零售商。

You might have a Whole Foods.

你可能有一家全食超市。

You might have some fancy restaurants.

您可能有一些高档餐厅。

And it’s all kind of part of this master plan, part of an urban design.

这都是总体规划的一部分，是城市设计的一部分。

I find so much of America dispiritingly ugly.

我发现美国的很多地方都丑陋得令人沮丧。

But I’ve learned to prefer that.

但我已经学会更喜欢那样了。

That it keeps our minds open for other things.

它让我们对其他事情保持开放的心态。

And the towns that are in a way picture perfect, like Ghent or Bruges or Bergen, Norway where I just was.

还有那些风景如画的城镇，比如根特、布鲁日或我刚才去过的挪威卑尔根。

That’s stultifying.

这太无聊了。

So I guess I quite like fast casual precisely because I don’t like it.

所以我想我很喜欢快速休闲正是因为我不喜欢它。

That if architecture is what is controlling your mind rather than music, I suspect you’ll end up in a worse place.

如果控制你思想的是建筑而不是音乐，我怀疑你最终会陷入更糟糕的境地。

Another Twitter question.

另一个推特问题。

This is from Vincenzo Luna.

这是文森佐·卢纳发来的。

“What’s the biggest change in the shortest period of time you’ve ever witnessed something either personally or professionally?” And he says, “To clarify I mean, anything from a near instantaneous transformation or something that preceded incrementally but you saw it from start to finish and you thought wow, that was amazing.”

“你在个人或职业上见证过的最短时间里最大的变化是什么？”他说，“澄清一下，我的意思是，任何近乎瞬时的转变或逐渐发生的事情，但你从头到尾看到它，你会觉得哇，这太棒了。”

Well the growth of China would be one example.

中国的增长就是一个例子。

I’m not sure I can rank anything as the very most extreme.

我不确定我是否可以将任何事情列为最极端的。

But I first went to China 30 years ago and I’ve been there many times since.

但我第一次去中国是在30年前，此后我又去过那里很多次。

And each time I go my jaw drops.

每次我去的时候我的下巴都会掉下来。

And the difference between 30 years ago and today — I even wrote a Bloomberg column about that you didn’t read.

30 年前和今天的区别——我什至写了一篇彭博社专栏，但你没有读过。

But, the point got made.

但是，重点已经明确了。

It’s really quite phenomenal.

这确实非常了不起。

Yeah.

是的。

That is one of my regrets is that I haven’t visited China and the idea that you can see things changing almost in real time.

我的遗憾之一是我没有访问过中国，也没有想到你几乎可以实时看到事情的变化。

That’s over there now.

现在就在那里。

I mean it will still change a lot, but not at 10% rates of growth.

我的意思是它仍然会发生很大的变化，但不会以 10% 的速度增长。

Back to production function questions.

回到生产函数问题。

These are more grab bag.

这些都是比较抓包的。

“My father always told me, when you travel you don’t look enough.

“我父亲总是告诉我，当你旅行时，你看起来不够。

Every time he traveled a lot, he would say, I have not looked enough, I’ve not looked enough.

每次他旅行很多次，他都会说，我还没有看够，我还没有看够。

This was ingrained in me all the time.”

这一直在我心里根深蒂固。”

I think I have no idea on that one.

我想我对此一无所知。

But maybe Alain Bertaud.

但也许是阿兰·贝尔托。

Alain Bertaud, exactly.

阿兰·贝尔托，没错。

That was a guess.

那是一个猜测。

He emphasized that he would travel with his dad for business and his dad would more or less give him a mp and say, here’s some places to go.

他强调，他会和父亲一起出差，他的父亲或多或少会给他一个议员，并说，这里有一些地方可以去。

And he would report back and his dad would almost quiz him on what he had seen.

他会汇报情况，而他的父亲几乎会询问他所看到的情况。

And he always got critiqued for not looking carefully enough or noticing enough.

他总是因为观察不够仔细或不够注意而受到批评。

Is that Ed Boyden?

那是艾德·博伊登吗？

It was.

是的。

Who else writes grants right?

还有谁能正确书写补助金？

He has a lab.

他有一个实验室。

So that’s how I figured that one out.

这就是我的想法。

Not memory, induction.

不是记忆，是感应。

Boyden has a lot of great tips in his.

博伊登的书中有很多很棒的技巧。

I could have selected any number of things but —

我可以选择任意数量的东西，但是——

He was one of the best for actually understanding how he succeeded.

他是最了解自己如何成功的人之一。

Yes.

是的。

And great insights into how you try to solve a problem, how you get a team to work together.

以及关于如何尝试解决问题、如何让团队合作的深刻见解。

Especially for an academic but even just in terms of the full roster of CWT guests, I thought he was great on that stuff.

特别是对于一位学者来说，但即使只是就 CWT 嘉宾的完整名单而言，我认为他在这方面很出色。

And I suspect the unedited Ed Boyden would be so much better yet.

我怀疑未经编辑的埃德博伊登会更好。

On administration, personnel management, working within a university, my goodness.

关于行政、人事管理、大学内部工作，我的天啊。

The things he could say.

他能说的话。

All right, let’s go to another theme in production functions.

好吧，让我们进入生产函数的另一个主题。

Interestingly two of our guests mentioned voice recording.

有趣的是，我们的两位客人提到了录音。

First, this is literally all this person said about it.

首先，这就是这个人所说的全部内容。

They didn’t elaborate:“I use voice recognition software.” And you were asking about how they produced their work.

他们没有详细说明：“我使用语音识别软件。”你问的是他们是如何创作作品的。

This was very recent.

这是最近的事。

I don’t think I have any idea who uses voice recognition software.

我想我不知道谁使用语音识别软件。

Who is it?

是谁？

It’s Daron Acemoglu.

我是达龙·阿塞莫格鲁。

And he gave it as an aside and it wasn’t dwelled on or elaborated on, but that’s what I keyed in on is that he said he basically — it sounded like he actually drafts his papers by dictating.

他把它作为旁白，没有详细说明或详细说明，但这就是我强调的，他说他基本上 - 听起来他实际上是通过口授来起草他的论文。

By talking.

通过谈话。

Gordon Tullock did that of course.

戈登·塔洛克当然这么做了。

Yeah.

是的。

With a tape recorder, not with software.

使用录音机，而不是软件。

And then he would have someone type it out.

然后他会让人把它打出来。

On that note, second person.

就这一点而言，第二人称。

This person said they write in the morning and they stop at about 11.

这个人说他们早上写信，十一点左右就停下来。

“As I’m walking around for the next 15 minutes or so, sentences will come into my head, by and large they’re the best sentences so I’ve learned to carry a recorder with me.

“在接下来的 15 分钟左右的时间里，当我四处走动时，一些句子就会出现在我的脑海中，总的来说，它们是最好的句子，所以我学会了随身携带录音机。

Now it’s just the voice recorder app on my phone.

现在它只是我手机上的录音应用程序。

Because I know that if I jump in the car an start driving somewhere, I’m going to have a few of those lines and I don’t want to lose them.”

因为我知道，如果我跳进车里开始开车去某个地方，我会看到一些这样的台词，我不想失去它们。”

Is that Russ Roberts?

那是拉斯·罗伯茨吗？

No, that was Neal Stephenson.

不，那是尼尔·史蒂芬森。

Neal Stephenson, okay.

尼尔·史蒂芬森，好的。

Which I thought was great that his mind is still working and he leaves the work but he knows some stuff is going to spit out.

我认为这很好，他的大脑仍在工作，他离开了工作，但他知道有些东西会被吐出来。

No, I don’t write notes.

不，我不写笔记。

Yeah.

是的。

You just sit down and you write and when you’re done, that’s it.

你只要坐下来写，当你完成时，就这样了。

It’s a discrete kind of thing.

这是一种离散的事情。

If I need to remind myself of something, I’ll send myself an email.

如果我需要提醒自己某件事，我会给自己发一封电子邮件。

Which is the worst possible way of managing your production function.

这是管理生产职能的最糟糕的方式。

But it works.

但它有效。

To use your inbox as a to do list.

将收件箱用作待办事项列表。

I think it’s actually underrated.

我认为它实际上被低估了。

So I’ve read all the critiques.

所以我读了所有的批评。

I don’t need to email myself much.

我不需要给自己发太多电子邮件。

It’s maybe one thing every three days, and the rest I just remember.

也许每三天就会发生一件事，其余的我只记得。

One of my insights about you.

我对你的见解之一。

I don’t know if you would agree with this but, when I email with you, you’re very responsive generally.

我不知道你是否同意这一点，但是当我给你发电子邮件时，你通常都会回复得很及时。

If you’re near a computer you’ll respond nearly instantly.

如果您靠近计算机，您几乎会立即做出响应。

Yes.

是的。

And then often there will be a flurry of emails as if a real time conversation were happening.

然后经常会出现一连串的电子邮件，就好像正在进行实时对话一样。

And for me oftentimes it feels like we’re actually texting with each other.

对我来说，很多时候感觉就像我们真的在互相发短信。

But you never text.

但你从不发短信。

I never text.

我从不发短信。

I’m against texting.

我反对发短信。

You’re against texting but here’s the thing Tyler, you email like a texter.

你反对发短信，但泰勒就是这样，你像发短信一样发电子邮件。

But when you’re emailing you can type and when you text you have a little phone, you have big thick fingers, it doesn’t make any sense to me.

但当你发电子邮件时，你可以打字，当你发短信时，你有一部小手机，你有又大又粗的手指，这对我来说没有任何意义。

I actually, because I’m on a Mac, I can text from my laptop and I actually text a lot from my keyboard.

事实上，因为我使用的是 Mac，所以我可以通过笔记本电脑发短信，而且实际上我经常通过键盘发短信。

Well then it’s like emailing, that’s fine.

好吧，就像发电子邮件一样，没问题。

So if I got you hooked up with the technology, maybe you could be texting like a teenager.

因此，如果我让您迷上了这项技术，也许您可​​以像青少年一样发短信。

I don’t see the advantage.

我看不出有什么好处。

Because with texting you’re in essence telling people they can jump a particular queue.

因为通过短信，你本质上是在告诉人们他们可以插队。

And I’m not sure why you would want to give them that right, rather than reserving yourself the ordering privilege for the emails.

我不知道为什么你想给他们这个权利，而不是为自己保留电子邮件的订购特权。

Right.

正确的。

So I always have my iPad and iPhone with me.

所以我总是随身携带 iPad 和 iPhone。

So I can have as much immediacy as I want.

这样我就可以随心所欲地获得即时性。

And why let people jump the queue?

为什么要让人插队呢？

Right.

正确的。

Yes, this is the bane of texting, of Slack.

是的，这就是短信、Slack 的祸根。

It does create a presumption that you’re at the head of the line.

它确实会让人产生一种假设，即你处于队伍的最前面。

Now responding to all your emails right away as I do, also creates that presumption.

现在，像我一样立即回复所有电子邮件，也会产生这种假设。

But somehow it feels different.

但不知何故感觉不同。

A few people talked about using social media as a tool.

一些人谈到使用社交媒体作为工具。

So we’re still on production function.

所以我们仍然在生产函数上。

So first person.

所以第一人称。

“I would say I read widely.

“我想说我读书广泛。

I play with a lot of ideas, most of which don’t come to fruition.

我有很多想法，但其中大多数都没有实现。

Again, this is one of the advantages of social media.”

这又是社交媒体的优势之一。”

Henry Farrell.

亨利·法雷尔.

Henry Farrell.

亨利·法雷尔.

And he talked about doing little micro threads on Twitter as a kind of experimental thing.

他谈到在 Twitter 上做小微线程是一种实验性的事情。

And he’s very good at that, yes.

是的，他非常擅长这一点。

Yep.

是的。

All right, second one.

好吧，第二个。

Killing me, I’m losing my …

杀了我，我就失去了……

You need to send yourself an email.

您需要给自己发送一封电子邮件。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

Okay, second one.

好的，第二个。

“That’s what I mean when I say spending time on Facebook is really part of my work.

“当我说花时间在 Facebook 上确实是我工作的一部分时，我就是这个意思。

I try to have a sense of the temperature of the air, the flavor of the conversation.

我尝试去感受空气的温度和谈话的味道。

That’s where social networks used strategically I think, are extremely useful.

我认为这就是战略性使用社交网络非常有用的地方。

It’s the kind of research tool that I didn’t have as a young journalist.”

这是我作为一名年轻记者所没有的研究工具。”

Masha Gessen.

玛莎·格森。

Of course.

当然。

I gave you the clue there at the end.

我在最后给了你线索。

But even without that I would have known.

但即使没有这个我也会知道。

I remember that passage quite well.

我清楚地记得那段话。

I thought it was interesting that her friend described her as an empty pot.

我觉得她的朋友形容她是个空罐子很有趣。

That she absorbs information and then it leaves her.

她吸收了信息，然后信息又离开了她。

Do you find that true of yourself?

你觉得你自己也是这样吗？

I mean I think most people would say no, you’re a sponge and you keep it all in.

我的意思是，我想大多数人都会说不，你是一块海绵，你把一切都保留在里面。

No I feel I don’t retain hardly any of it.

不，我觉得我几乎没有保留任何内容。

That I can somehow summon it back if I cram on something.

如果我塞进什么东西，我就能以某种方式把它召唤回来。

But at any moment I feel like I know nothing or close to nothing.

但任何时候我都感觉自己一无所知或几乎一无所知。

It’s deep in there but you have the tools to — you can’t access it offhand, but if you focus on it somehow that you know it’s there.

它在深处，但你有工具——你无法立即访问它，但如果你以某种方式专注于它，你就知道它就在那里。

It doesn’t feel lost, but it doesn’t feel on the tip of my fingers either.

它不会让人感到失落，但也不会感觉在我的指尖上。

All right, last one.

好吧，最后一张。

This is a random one.

这是随机的。

“I played a lot of poker in college and I think I learned more about life and business from that than I learned in college.

“我在大学里玩了很多扑克，我认为我从中学到的关于生活和商业的知识比在大学里学到的更多。

I would not say I’m a great poker player, but I’m pretty good.

我不会说我是一名出色的扑克玩家，但我相当不错。

The thing that makes me I think good about that is getting good at quickly evaluating risk.”

让我觉得好的一点是善于快速评估风险。”

It’s got to be Sam Altman, right?

一定是萨姆·奥尔特曼，对吧？

It is.

这是。

Yeah.

是的。

Sam Altman.

萨姆·奥特曼.

Who’s production function most clearly mirrors yours, do you think?

您认为谁的生产函数最能反映您的生产函数？

Of these guests?

这些客人中？

Maybe Ted Gioia.

也许是特德·乔亚。

Yeah.

是的。

But I like Sam’s quickness and emphasis on speed.

但我喜欢萨姆的敏捷和对速度的重视。

Also his way of thinking about other people.

还有他为他人着想的方式。

So I felt I had more in common with him than maybe I was expecting to.

所以我觉得我和他的共同点比我想象的要多。

So Altman brought up that as a founder thing.

所以奥特曼将其作为创始人提出来。

Do you have any sense of a pattern among …

你是否感觉到其中存在某种模式……

You send out a lot of invites to Conversations with Tyler and generally email with some of these people.

您发出了很多与泰勒对话的邀请，并且通常会向其中一些人发送电子邮件。

So who are the speed responders?

那么谁是快速响应者呢？

I don’t think I remember.

我想我不记得了。

Russ Roberts perhaps.

也许是拉斯·罗伯茨。

Mark Zuckerberg.

马克·扎克伯格。

But I think …

但我认为……

If it’s younger people and you don’t know how to evaluate them, but obviously it takes on greater weight in your impression.

如果是年轻人，你不知道如何评价他们，但显然它在你的印象中更重要。

And it’s kind of an arrogant, like why shouldn’t you respond to me right away?

这有点傲慢，比如你为什么不立即回复我？

But I think it’s true.

但我认为这是真的。

And it’s fine if they want to downgrade me.

如果他们想降级我也没关系。

I don’t take that personally.

我不认为这是针对我个人的。

Like they’re going to do something else.

就像他们要做别的事情一样。

But then I figure, I should downgrade them and that’s the equilibrium.

但后来我想，我应该降低它们的评级，这就是均衡。

Very well.

很好。

Some more questions from Twitter and then we’ll go back in the decade a little bit and look at Marginal Revolution through the years.

Twitter 还提出了一些问题，然后我们将回顾十年前，看看这些年来的边际革命。

Actually just one year, 2009.

其实只有一年，2009年。

New Recusant on Twitter: “What econ related facts surprised Tyler the most in the last decade?

New Recusant 在 Twitter 上写道：“过去十年里，哪些与经济相关的事实最让泰勒感到惊讶？

Bitcoin, China?” What surprised you?

比特币，中国？”什么让你感到惊讶？

Bitcoin surprised me multiple times.

比特币多次让我感到惊讶。

China I thought would have an excess capacity debt crisis and it didn’t.

我原以为中国会出现产能过剩债务危机，但事实并非如此。

So those would be two big picks.

所以这将是两个重要的选择。

That the rate of unemployment fell to such a low rate definitely surprised me.

失业率降到如此低的水平确实让我感到惊讶。

Those would be the three big ones that come to mind right away.

这将是立即浮现在脑海中的三个大问题。

Trump winning.

特朗普获胜。

Not an economics thing, but it surprised me, sure.

这不是经济学问题，但这确实让我感到惊讶。

Looking back over the last decade — I went back and I looked at every post from December 2009.

回顾过去十年——我回顾了 2009 年 12 月以来的每一篇帖子。

Partly to look at your end of year list because I think people would — I’m going to bring up some of your recommendations from December 2009.

部分是为了查看你们的年终清单，因为我认为人们会——我将提出你们 2009 年 12 月以来的一些建议。

Okay, we’ll see how they held up.

好吧，我们看看他们的表现如何。

Do you remember what you were writing about in December 2009?

您还记得 2009 年 12 月您写的内容吗？

Well not month by month, but I know that time there was plenty on the financial crisis of course.

好吧，不是逐月，但我知道那段时间当然有很多关于金融危机的事情。

Sure.

当然。

And I think the blog, like 2005 to 2010 or so was very different than the blog today.

我认为 2005 年到 2010 年左右的博客与今天的博客有很大不同。

And I do understand, I think those differences.

我确实理解这些差异。

So 2009 for you, the book that you had published was Create Your Own Economy, which was renamed in paperback to Age of the Infovore.

2009 年，你出版的书是《创造你自己的经济》（Create Your Own Economy），平装本更名为《信息时代》（Age of the Infovore）。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

Is that your only book that’s been rebranded like that?

这是你唯一一本这样重新命名的书吗？

As far as I know.

据我所知。

The original title was bad, so I’m glad they renamed it.

原标题不好，所以我很高兴他们重命名了它。

But it’s a sign of failure in a way.

但这在某种程度上是失败的标志。

I bought it with the original title and I was living abroad at the time and I had it shipped to me.

我以原标题购买了它，当时我住在国外，所以我把它运送给了我。

And I emailed you.

我给你发了电子邮件。

Did I respond quickly?

我反应快吗？

You did.

你做到了。

I checked it last night.

我昨晚检查过。

You responded within two hours.

你在两小时内回复了。

I’ll screenshot it for the transcript.

我会将其截图作为文字记录。

I was living in a place where it wasn’t easy to get a book.

我住在一个不容易买到书的地方。

I couldn’t go to a bookstore, let’s put it that way.

我不能去书店，这么说吧。

Oh this was from Africa.

哦，这是来自非洲。

Yeah.

是的。

It was from Rwanda.

是从卢旺达来的。

Oh so that was you.

哦，原来是你啊。

I remember that email.

我记得那封电子邮件。

Yes.

是的。

But I didn’t know it was you.

但我不知道那是你。

Amazing.

惊人的。

That was me.

那是我。

Okay.

好的。

And I was read a third of the book paying taxes in Rwanda.

我读了在卢旺达纳税的书的三分之一。

My opinion of my own memory just went up.

我对自己记忆力的评价上升了。

That’s good.

那挺好的。

Yes.

是的。

My opinion of my own laterality just went down.

我对自己偏向性的看法刚刚下降。

When I look over your posts from 2009, what struck me is some of it feels sort of old blogosphere, old internet in the sense that some of the links are broken, some of the blogs don’t exist.

当我浏览你 2009 年的帖子时，令我印象深刻的是，其中有些感觉像是旧的博客圈、旧的互联网，因为有些链接已损坏，有些博客不存在。

But I was struck by how many of the themes to me felt still very topical.

但令我震惊的是，有很多主题对我来说仍然非常热门。

Obviously there was credit crunch.

显然，出现了信贷紧缩。

You and Alex talked about Avatar because it was the biggest movie that came out.

你和亚历克斯谈论《阿凡达》，因为它是上映的最大的电影。

Yes, which is bizarre.

是的，这很奇怪。

Completely falling down a memory hole.

彻底掉进了记忆的坑里。

Although they’re going to do like five sequels, right?

虽然他们会拍五部续集，对吧？

Yes.

是的。

I don’t understand that but I will go see them.

我不明白，但我会去看他们。

So there is some of that, but what struck me is, yeah, the consistency.

所以有一些，但让我印象深刻的是，是的，一致性。

So you’re referencing Scott Sumner.

所以你指的是斯科特·萨姆纳。

I’m sure there’s-

我确信有——

Scott’s now at Mercatus, of course.

当然，斯科特现在在 Mercatus。

And Scott’s now at Mercatus.

斯科特现在在 Mercatus。

There’s like a Henry …

就像亨利一样……

There’s probably like a Henry Farrell Crooked Timber thing in there somewhere.

那里可能有像亨利·法雷尔弯曲木材一样的东西。

And he’s now done a CWT, yeah.

是的，他现在已经完成了 CWT。

Yeah.

是的。

The real lesson is the supply of bloggers is inelastic, right?

真正的教训是博主的供应缺乏弹性，对吗？

And what should we infer from that?

我们应该从中推断出什么？

I’m not sure.

我不知道。

But it’s significant.

但这很重要。

Well, I’ll get to this now.

好吧，我现在就开始讲这个。

So Alex has a post discussing Paul Romer, who we’ve had on and won the Nobel Prize.

因此，亚历克斯（Alex）发表了一篇讨论保罗·罗默（Paul Romer）的文章，我们曾与他合作并获得了诺贝尔奖。

Yeah, the year before.

是的，前年。

Last year.

去年。

And talking about how the average age of people who are getting grants is going up and he wonders if that’s the reason why there’s a slow down in productivity or progress.

谈到获得资助的人的平均年龄如何上升，他想知道这是否是生产力或进步放缓的原因。

Which I thought was very funny.

我觉得这很有趣。

There was also a weird coincidence in that December 2009 Paul Samuelson had just died.

还有一个奇怪的巧合是，2009 年 12 月保罗·萨缪尔森刚刚去世。

Paul Volcker as we’re recording this has just passed away.

当我们录制这段视频时，保罗·沃尔克刚刚去世。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

One thing that surprised me is that, I was clicking through the posts and I was going from December 31st back, and I clicked to like the second page of posts and I still wasn’t even to Christmas.

让我惊讶的一件事是，我点击浏览这些帖子，从 12 月 31 日开始，我点击了帖子的第二页，但我什至还没到圣诞节。

And the output I thought was much higher.

我认为输出要高得多。

And I looked and on MR in December 2009 you had about 160 posts.

我在 2009 年 12 月的 MR 上查看了大约 160 个帖子。

So you were posting like five times a day, between you and Alex.

所以你和亚历克斯每天都会发帖五次。

Right.

正确的。

This month, it looks like you’re on pace maybe to do about 130.

这个月，看起来你的进度可能会达到 130 次左右。

So that’s four a day.

所以一天四次。

Your productivity slowed down and what are your reasons?

您的生产力下降了，原因是什么？

Is it age or do you have other explanations?

是年龄的问题还是有其他解释？

No, it’s on purpose.

不，这是故意的。

I’m doing more other things including the podcast.

我正在做更多其他事情，包括播客。

But I think in 2009 I was still experimenting in some fresh way with blogging as a new medium and what it meant.

但我认为在 2009 年，我仍在以某种新的方式尝试博客作为一种新媒介及其含义。

In some ways the blog was better than for that reason.

在某些方面，博客比这个原因更好。

Whereas now, Marginal Revolution, it’s a bit like, well, the Economist magazine plus a dose of me.

而现在，《边际革命》有点像《经济学人》杂志加上我的一剂。

And that’s a set formula.

这是一个固定的公式。

I don’t know that there’s that much more experimentation I can do or should be doing.

我不知道我可以做或应该做那么多实验。

Maybe that drains a little bit of energy out of it.

也许这会消耗掉一点能量。

But people know what to expect more and I think that’s the biggest difference.

但人们知道更多的期待是什么，我认为这是最大的区别。

My explanation too would be this was really before Twitter took off and so I would think that some of those marginal posts are now just tweets.

我的解释也是，这实际上是在 Twitter 起飞之前，所以我认为其中一些边缘帖子现在只是推文。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

You used to have a segment called The Best Paragraph I Read Today.

你曾经有一个叫做“我今天读到的最好的段落”的片段。

I don’t think that you would do a lot of that anymore.

我认为你不会再做很多这样的事情了。

You still do to some extent, but I think a lot of that would actually just be a tweet today and not a post.

在某种程度上，你仍然这样做，但我认为其中很多实际上只是今天的一条推文，而不是一篇帖子。

And if you think about the transcripts behind a CWT, and they go on the blog, they’re like equal to a lot of posts.

如果你考虑一下 CWT 背后的文字记录，它们会出现在博客上，它们就像很多帖子一样。

And so are Bloomberg columns.

彭博专栏也是如此。

They’re 800 words typically and that’s longer than an average post.

它们通常有 800 字，比普通帖子要长。

So people have to click.

所以人们必须点击。

But I think if you adjust for that, the amount of material is not really down at all.

但我认为，如果你对此进行调整，材料的数量根本就不会真正减少。

Okay.

好的。

So the rate of progress, the rate of productivity for Marginal Revolution, for Tyler Cowen, Alex Tabarrok?

那么边际革命、泰勒·考恩、亚历克斯·塔巴罗克的进步率、生产率是多少？

It’s presented more economically, but has not fallen.

它的表现更加经济，但并没有下降。

Okay.

好的。

Let’s get into some of the recommendations.

让我们来看看一些建议。

So it’s become more of an institution for you.

所以它对你来说更像是一个机构。

Interestingly, you do have recommendations, but they’re more offhand.

有趣的是，你确实有建议，但它们比较随意。

They’re a little flip.

他们有点翻转。

When you talk about movies, you say these are what come to mind, whereas I know now you actually catalog it and you try to keep a list running through the year.

当你谈论电影时，你会说这些是你想到的，而我现在知道你实际上对它进行了分类，并且你试图保持一个贯穿全年的列表。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

Do you have any sense-

你有没有什么感觉——

I don’t try to keep a list, I keep a list.

我不会试图保留一个清单，我只是保留一个清单。

Right?

正确的？

Yeah.

是的。

There’s a big difference.

有很大的不同。

Yes.

是的。

You keep a list.

你保留一个清单。

I’ve seen it.

我见过。

I have access to the Marginal Revolution draft posts and I see it in there.

我可以访问边际革命草案帖子，我在那里看到了它。

And I do peek because I’m always curious.

我确实会偷看，因为我总是很好奇。

Let’s do movies first.

我们先拍电影吧。

Do you have any sense in 2009 what your favorite movies of the year were?

您知道 2009 年您最喜欢的年度电影是什么吗？

No idea whatsoever.

一点也不知道。

And what movie was exactly which year.

以及具体是哪一年的电影。

Other than Star Wars, I’m not sure there’s a single movie I could tell you, or just a small number.

除了《星球大战》之外，我不确定还有哪一部电影可以告诉你，或者只是一小部分。

So the list you gave was Tyson, which I don’t even know what that was.

所以你给出的名单是泰森，我什至不知道那是什么。

I didn’t look it up.

我没查。

Tyson, I Love You, Man, District 9, Up, the Pixar film, Brüno, Let The Right One In, The Hurt Locker, and the documentary Man On Wire.

泰森、《我爱你》、《兄弟》、《第九区》、《飞屋环游记》、皮克斯电影、《布鲁诺》、《让对的人进来》、《拆弹部队》和纪录片《走钢丝》。

District 9, Let The Right One In, and Man On Wire have aged the best on that list.

《District 9》、《Let The Right One In》和《Man On Wire》是该名单上最老的。

And Brüno probably has aged the worst.

布鲁诺的年纪可能是最严重的。

It’s still a good list I think.

我认为这仍然是一个很好的清单。

Yeah.

是的。

Of course what you could see then was a bit different than what you could see now.

当然，你当时看到的和现在看到的有点不同。

It was pre-Netflix.

那是在 Netflix 出现之前。

So the list would be different now.

所以现在的列表会有所不同。

There would be more movies from the year before on Netflix disk now.

现在 Netflix 磁盘上将会有更多前一年的电影。

Fiction.

小说。

You say, “My favorite works of fiction this year were the new Pamuk…” Orhan Pamuk who comes up when you interviewed Dani Roderick, Daron Acemoglu.

你说，“今年我最喜欢的小说作品是新帕慕克……”当你采访丹尼·罗德里克、达伦·阿塞莫格鲁时，奥尔罕·帕慕克出现了。

Sure.

当然。

That was still a good pick.

这仍然是一个不错的选择。

Yes.

是的。

The Museum of Innocence was the book.

《纯真博物馆》就是这本书。

Right.

正确的。

Gail Hareven’s The Confession of Noa Weber.

盖尔·哈文的《诺亚·韦伯的自白》。

I met her this year.

我今年认识了她。

She was phenomenal.

她是非凡的。

I loved meeting her.

我很喜欢见到她。

I was very honored.

我感到非常荣幸。

Natasha and I were in Israel and we made a point of contacting her and I still love that book.

娜塔莎和我在以色列，我们特意联系了她，我仍然喜欢那本书。

A great pick.

一个很好的选择。

And A Happy Marriage, by Rafael Yglesias.

《幸福的婚姻》，拉斐尔·伊格莱西亚斯著。

Who is an extremely underrated writer.

他是一位被极度低估的作家。

He’s the father of Matt.

他是马特的父亲。

And more people should read him.

更多的人应该读他的书。

Speaking of the old blogosphere, and who is obviously still continuing at Vox.

说到旧的博客圈，显然谁还在 Vox 继续工作。

And Dr. Neruda’s Cure for Evil is maybe Rafael’s best book.

聂鲁达博士的《治愈邪恶》也许是拉斐尔最好的书。

And he has a new one online, which I haven’t read yet and I’ve been meaning to.

他在网上有一本新书，我还没读过，但我一直想读。

I wish he would get more attention.

我希望他能得到更多的关注。

For nonfiction you said, “the new Gabriel García Márquez biography”, which I don’t know what the title of that was.

对于非小说类作品，你说“新的加夫列尔·加西亚·马尔克斯传记”，我不知道它的标题是什么。

The link was broken and I forgot to look it up.

链接已损坏，我忘了查找它。

Do you remember offhand with that biography?

你还记得那本传记吗？

Not the exact title, but a good book.

不是确切的书名，而是一本好书。

Chris Wickham’s The Inheritance of Rome.

克里斯·威克姆的《罗马的继承》。

Yes.

是的。

Good pick.

不错的选择。

Eric Siblin’s The Cello Suites: J.S.

埃里克·西布林的《大提琴组曲》：J.S.

Bach, Pablo Casals, and the Search for a Baroque Masterpiece.

巴赫、巴勃罗·卡萨尔斯和寻找巴洛克杰作。

I feel very good about my old picks, I have to say.

我不得不说，我对我以前的选择感觉非常好。

I bought The Cello Suites on that recommendation.

我根据这个推荐买了《大提琴套房》。

I read it with my now wife.

我和我现在的妻子一起读了这本书。

And we had a great time reading it together.

我们一起读得很开心。

I’ve bought many books off of Marginal Revolution as I suspect listeners have.

我买了很多《边际革命》的书，我怀疑听众也买了。

I do.

我愿意。

At least from 2009.

至少从2009年开始。

The cinema, like one or two of them are off and all the others still seem kind of perfect.

电影院，好像其中一两家已经关闭，而其他所有似乎仍然很完美。

Okay.

好的。

Do you feel —

你有没有感觉——

It’s interesting that cinema picks are more uncertain about how they hold up over time.

有趣的是，电影选择更不确定它们如何随着时间的推移而保持下去。

It makes intuitive sense, but I’d like to have a good theory as to why that is.

这很直观，但我想有一个很好的理论来解释为什么会这样。

Well something like Avatar, which is the biggest movie of the time has been, as I think it’s been noted on the Marginal Revolution, just completely disappeared from the cultural consciousness.

嗯，像《阿凡达》这样当时最大的电影，正如我认为《边缘革命》中所指出的那样，已经完全从文化意识中消失了。

We know the sequels are coming, but beyond that.

我们知道续集即将推出，但除此之外。

But I feel if I saw it again, and maybe I will, I wouldn’t say, “Gee, how could I have liked that?” It would feel like, “Gee, that was some weird, but brilliant dead end.” And a lot of wonderful movies should be weird but brilliant dead ends.

但我觉得如果我再次看到它，也许我会，我不会说，“哎呀，我怎么会喜欢那个？”感觉就像是，“哎呀，那是一个奇怪但绝妙的死胡同。”而很多精彩的电影都应该有奇怪但精彩的死胡同。

What’s fascinating is I think it was Alex linked to a post of a think piece on Avatar and it was about white privilege and I just thought that that was so funny because it felt like such a present day take on Avatar, but it was actually happening in 2009.

有趣的是，我认为 Alex 链接到了一篇关于《阿凡达》的思考文章，内容是关于白人特权的，我只是觉得这很有趣，因为这感觉就像是现代版的《阿凡达》，但它实际上发生在 2009 年。

Blue privilege.

蓝色特权。

All right, so looking forward, 2029, are you still blogging?

好吧，展望未来，2029 年，你还在写博客吗？

Yes.

是的。

Are you still podcasting?

你还在播客吗？

10 years from now, probably not.

10年后，可能不会。

But it’s possible.

但这是可能的。

I’m not quitting anytime soon.

我不会很快放弃。

If you said five years, I’d say, “Oh definitely.” 10 years, hard to say.

如果你说五年，我会说，“哦，当然。” 10年，很难说。

My voice might give out.

我的声音可能会失灵。

We’ve often talked about this, you and I, that the power CWT listener is actually a reader.

我们经常谈论这一点，你和我，强大的 CWT 听众实际上是读者。

That they read the transcript.

他们阅读了文字记录。

You yourself don’t listen to podcasts actually.

你自己实际上并不听播客。

Do you have any that you ever listen to — Maybe you have to for some reason.

你有没有听过什么——也许出于某种原因你不得不听。

No. Sometimes I have to and I don’t mind, but I never want to listen to any podcast, including my own.

不。有时我不得不听，我也不介意，但我从来不想听任何播客，包括我自己的。

It’s just too slow.

实在是太慢了。

And I’ll listen to podcasts when I’m prepping for a guest and then I “have to”.

当我准备接待客人时，我会听播客，然后我“必须”听。

But that’s it.

但就是这样。

So I have no idea who really has a good podcast.

所以我不知道谁有真正好的播客。

So given that you don’t listen to them, a lot of our sort of most successful listeners don’t listen to it, they read the transcript.

因此，鉴于你不听他们的讲话，我们许多最成功的听众也不会听他们的讲话，他们会阅读文字记录。

But most don’t offer a transcript.

但大多数不提供成绩单。

So what they do with other podcasts, I don’t know.

所以我不知道他们对其他播客做了什么。

Some people have their own transcripts made.

有些人有自己的成绩单。

Right.

正确的。

But does that mean that podcasts themselves are overrated in a sense?

但这是否意味着播客本身在某种意义上被高估了？

And that writing and the written word is still underrated?

写作和书面文字仍然被低估吗？

Yeah, the whole genre mystifies me.

是的，整个类型都让我感到困惑。

I don’t see why anyone does it or listens or cares.

我不明白为什么有人这样做、倾听或关心。

It’s bizarre given that I produce the output.

考虑到我产生了输出，这很奇怪。

But I never would have predicted it.

但我永远不会预料到这一点。

And it always feels to me like a bubble.

我总觉得它就像一个泡沫。

I don’t think it is at this point.

我认为现在还不是。

It’s less of a bubble than blogs were.

它不像博客那样是泡沫。

I think the big insight was that people were wasting their time a lot more than we thought and mobile and social media and podcasting all filled that space.

我认为最重要的洞察是，人们浪费的时间比我们想象的要多得多，移动、社交媒体和播客都填补了这个空间。

Yes.

是的。

I think it is a way to fill up some of that idle time with content that actually is better than what you’re typically going to consume.

我认为这是一种用比你通常要消费的内容更好的内容来填补一些空闲时间的方法。

To the extent that we’re competing with mobile games, which I think is one of the things you’re going to do with your idle time for an average person.

就我们正在与手机游戏竞争而言，我认为这是普通人闲暇时会做的事情之一。

I feel our audience listens and reads, but podcasts as a whole I wonder is it just like some kind of drone in the background like muzak?

我觉得我们的观众在听和读，但播客作为一个整体，我想知道它是否就像背景中的某种无人机，比如穆扎克？

Muzak with a human voice.

带有人声的穆扎克。

I don’t know.

我不知道。

I’m sure some people listen to it that way.

我确信有些人会这样听。

For me, it’s actually replaced music, which may not be a good thing.

对我来说，它实际上取代了音乐，这可能不是一件好事。

But I stopped — this back in iPod days.

但我停了下来——那是在 iPod 时代。

I’ve been listening to podcasts for a long time and it just replaced a lot of the music that I might have been listening to.

我听播客已经很长时间了，它取代了我可能一直在听的很多音乐。

I feel music is a dynamic influence on ourselves.

我觉得音乐对我们自己有一种动态的影响。

And when music gets replaced we should worry.

当音乐被取代时我们应该担心。

And music can change and you listen to different kinds of music.

音乐可以改变，你可以听不同类型的音乐。

And there’s a repulsiveness to it that the spoken voice doesn’t have.

而且有一种说话的声音所没有的令人厌恶的感觉。

So you’ve made me more worried.

所以你让我更加担心了。

But at least for the next year we’ll keep it going.

但至少明年我们会继续这样做。

Maybe five years, we’ll see.

也许五年后，我们就会看到。

No. I don’t mind inflicting the human voice on people.

不，我不介意将人类的声音强加于人。

I’m happy to corrupt them and tear them away from beloved music.

我很乐意腐蚀他们，让他们远离喜爱的音乐。

But viewed aesthetically, if you think of say the 1960s and ’70s, music was primary in that era and there was something very creative about that.

但从美学角度来看，如果你想想 20 世纪 60 年代和 70 年代，音乐在那个时代是主要的，而且有一些非常有创意的东西。

And that was a time when we made a lot of big, bold decisions, not all of them good ones.

那段时间我们做出了很多重大、大胆的决定，但并非都是好的决定。

But nonetheless.

但尽管如此。

And maybe the drone of the voice in the background reflects the complacency of our time.

也许背景中的嗡嗡声反映了我们这个时代的自满情绪。

And podcasting is a form of complacency maybe.

播客也许是一种自满的表现。

On that happy note, let’s wrap up.

就这个快乐的话题，让我们结束吧。

And look forward to another year and more of working together.

并期待新的一年和更多的合作。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

I’ve enjoyed this.

我很喜欢这个。

I have enjoyed this and for those of you listening, please do let us know if you did too, we’ll do it more.

我很喜欢这个，对于那些正在聆听的人，如果您也这样做，请告诉我们，我们会做得更多。

And just everyone else at Mercatus.

还有 Mercatus 的其他所有人。

The people who do infrastructure, the IT people, the finance people, the receptionists.

基础设施建设人员、IT 人员、财务人员、接待员。

They all do their bit.

他们都尽自己的一份力量。

A guest shows up, how do they get back to the studio right?

客人出现了，他们该如何返回演播室呢？

Someone does it.

有人这样做。

It’s not always us.

并不总是我们。

It’s part of the production function.

它是生产函数的一部分。

That’s right.

这是正确的。

Unheralded.

无人知晓。

But on behalf of Tyler, this is Jeff Holmes, thank you-

但我代表泰勒，我是杰夫·霍姆斯，谢谢你——

And you’re all great to work with.

和你们一起工作都很愉快。

Thank you Tyler.

谢谢泰勒。