Shaka Senghor on Incarceration, Identity, and the Gift of Literacy (Ep. 80)

For me, books was kind of my escape from that world.

对我来说，书籍是我逃离那个世界的一种方式。

Unfortunately for others who didn’t have the skill set to be able to read or literacy, they end up suffering tremendously.

不幸的是，对于其他不具备阅读或识字技能的人来说，他们最终会遭受巨大的痛苦。

There definitely were moments where I wasn’t sure how I was going to survive it or what I was going to do to come out with my sanity intact.

肯定有一些时刻，我不确定我将如何度过这一切，或者我该怎么做才能保持我的理智完好无损。

The gift of writing and the gift of being able to read was something that really helped me navigate all the emotional turmoil that comes with being in that environment.

写作的天赋和阅读的天赋确实帮助我应对了在那种环境中所带来的所有情感混乱。

They introduced me to books very early on.

他们很早就向我介绍了书籍。

I remember them trying to be a mentor to me at a time when I was pretty much incorrigible.

我记得当我几乎无可救药的时候，他们试图成为我的导师。

I just didn’t want to listen.

我只是不想听。

I was really hurting, in a very emotionally tumultuous part of my life.

在我生命中情绪非常混乱的阶段，我真的很受伤。

I was very young.

我当时很年轻。

I went to prison when I was 19 years old, and I thought my life was over.

我19岁时进了监狱，我以为我的人生就结束了。

I was fortunate to meet these incredible men who saw something redeemable in me.

我很幸运能够遇到这些令人难以置信的人，他们在我身上看到了一些值得救赎的东西。

They eventually figured a pathway in, which was through books.

他们最终找到了一条途径，那就是通过书籍。

The first book that I actually received from them .

我实际上从他们那里收到的第一本书。

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I remember this guy named O’Neil Ill.

我记得这个叫奥尼尔病的人。

He wrote books by hand, and he would give me these books to read that he had wrote.

他亲手写书，他会给我这些他写的书让我读。

They were about Detroit, and what was going on in the street culture.

它们是关于底特律的，以及街头文化中正在发生的事情。

But then he introduced me to an author named Donald Goines, and that opened up my world to the power of reading.

但后来他向我介绍了一位名叫唐纳德·戈因斯的作家，这为我的世界打开了阅读的力量。

I read everything from fiction to philosophy and sometimes just the dictionary.

我读了从小说到哲学的所有书籍，有时甚至只是字典。

I’d read Malcolm X’s book, when he talked about him reading a dictionary from A to Z.

我读过马尔科姆·X 的书，他谈到他从头到尾地读一本字典。

I was really curious about the etymology of words, so I would study words and figure out where they derived from and how they applied.

我对单词的词源非常好奇，所以我会研究单词并弄清楚它们的来源和应用方式。

I also structured my days in solitary as if I was at a university.

我也把自己的日子安排得像在大学一样。

I would get up and get my workout in, and then I would study a subject each hour.

我会起床锻炼，然后每小时学习一门科目。

Oftentimes, we exchanged books with each other, and we would buy books.

我们经常互相交换书籍，我们会买书。

I would order books from different outlets that sold books to men and women in prison.

我会从不同的向监狱里的男人和女人出售书籍的商店订购书籍。

The prison library — it varies from prison to prison.

监狱图书馆——每个监狱的图书馆都不一样。

Some are better than others.

有些比其他更好。

Back in the day, you used to get books donated by people.

过去，你常常会收到人们捐赠的书籍。

They will have estates, and they would just say, “Hey, let’s donate these to the local prison.” But now it’s becoming more and more restrictive in terms of what you can read, specifically around books that reflect black culture, which was really something that was shocking to me.

他们会有财产，他们只会说，“嘿，让我们把这些捐给当地监狱吧。”但现在，你可以阅读的内容变得越来越严格，特别是反映黑人文化的书籍，这确实让我感到震惊。

A lot of those books I read in the early stages of my incarceration are now banned.

我在入狱初期读过的很多书现在都被禁了。

You can’t get Donald Goines books the way that you used to.

你不能像以前那样获得唐纳德·戈因斯的书了。

Their excuse is that it talks about crime and things like that.

他们的借口是它谈论犯罪之类的事情。

But I’m like, “You can’t get that, but you can get Stephen King, which is murder and mayhem.”

但我想，“你不能得到这个，但你可以得到斯蒂芬金，这是谋杀和混乱。”

When I did the four-and-a-half-year stretch , I went through this moment of really just trying to figure out my life.

当我经历了四年半的时间后，我经历了这一刻，我真的只是想弄清楚我的生活。

How did I go from being an honor roll student with dreams of being a doctor to serving all my most promising years in prison?

我是如何从一个梦想成为一名医生的优等生，到在监狱里度过我最有前途的岁月的？

That led me down the path of journaling.

这让我走上了写日记的道路。

I began to go back and try to unravel the big questions of why and how.

我开始回过头来尝试解开“为什么”和“如何”的大问题。

Through that process, I began to realize that I had never accomplished anything in my life.

通过这个过程，我开始意识到我一生中从未完成过任何事情。

So I set out on this journey to write a book and to write that book in 30 days.

所以我开始了写书的旅程，并在 30 天内写完那本书。

So I did that, wrote a second book, and started a third one.

所以我就这样做了，写了第二本书，并开始了第三本书。

Then I fell into a deep bout of depression.

然后我就陷入了深深的抑郁之中。

I probably had about three years in at that point, maybe two and a half, three years.

那时我可能有大约三年的时间，也许两年半，三年。

I was depressed for a few months because I realized this dream that I was discovering — I didn’t have a way to give birth to it.

我沮丧了几个月，因为我意识到我正在发现的这个梦想——我没有办法实现它。

Because I was in an environment where it was just hard to really get my words out into the world.

因为我所处的环境很难真正将我的话传达给世界。

I was able to navigate that, fortunately.

幸运的是，我能够驾驭它。

And again, journaling, letters from my father, being able to really talk extensively with him through the written word was really helpful.

再说一次，写日记、父亲的来信、能够通过书面文字与他进行广泛的交谈真的很有帮助。

I would go back and read his letters and read books that inspired me: Long Walk to Freedom, Nelson Mandela; James Allen, As a Man Thinketh.

我会回去读他的信，读那些启发我的书：《漫漫自由路》，纳尔逊·曼德拉；詹姆斯·艾伦，《作为一个人思考》。

I was constantly just challenging my mind to get through the day.

我不断地挑战自己的思维来度过这一天。

One of the things that I personally live by and what I discovered is, if you can get through the pain in the moment, you can come out on the other side of anything.

我个人所遵循的以及我发现的一件事是，如果你能克服当下的痛苦，你就能摆脱一切。

For me, it was just about moment-to-moment existence and being fully present in those moments for what they were.

对我来说，这只是每时每刻的存在，并充分呈现那些时刻的本来面目。

The world that I left didn’t exist when I got out.

当我出去时，我离开的世界并不存在。

It was a very different world, different people.

这是一个非常不同的世界，不同的人。

Most of the people in my life had moved on with their lives while I was incarcerated.

在我被监禁期间，我生命中的大多数人都继续过着自己的生活。

So there was definitely some anxiety of how would people look?

所以肯定有人担心人们会是什么样子？

How would they feel?

他们会有什么感觉？

What would the conversations be like?

对话会是什么样的？

How receptive would the world be to me returning?

世界对我回归的接受程度如何？

And who am I in this new world that I’m returning to?

在我即将回归的这个新世界里，我是谁？

In prison, I had ascended to being a key decision maker in regards to what happened on the prison yard.

在监狱里，我已经成为监狱院子里发生的事情的关键决策者。

Now I’m walking into a new world where I have to create a whole new identity as a free man and as an adult man.

现在我正在走进一个新世界，我必须创造一个全新的身份作为一个自由人和一个成年男人。

I went in as a kid.

我小时候就进去过。

So there’s a lot of anxiety associated with that.

因此，人们对此有很多焦虑。

I’ve seen guys blow their paroles because they get to that door, and then all of a sudden they’re realizing, the mother that was there when I went to prison, she’s no longer here.

我见过一些人因为到达那扇门而放弃假释，然后突然他们意识到，我入狱时在场的母亲，她已经不在这里了。

She’s dead, and they don’t have anybody to go home to.

她死了，他们没有人可以回家。

So it’s like, “How am I going to survive in this new world on the other side of this fence?” I can’t say that I’ve seen anybody attempt to escape.

所以这就像是，“我该如何在栅栏另一边的这个新世界中生存？”我不能说我见过有人试图逃跑。

But I have seen guys compromise their parole and end up serving more time, as opposed to walking out of the doors free.

但我见过一些人在假释上妥协，最终服刑时间更长，而不是自由地走出监狱。

I’ve read this book called Cages of Steel, and the book outlined exactly what solitary is designed to do to a human being.

我读过《钢铁之笼》这本书，这本书准确地概述了孤独对人类的意义。

Because I was aware of that, whenever I felt those things happening inside of me, I was able to combat that.

因为我意识到这一点，每当我感觉到这些事情发生在我内心时，我就能与之抗争。

If you’re walking into that environment and you’re illiterate or you don’t have access to this information, you don’t know how to deal with being in a cell, being in an environment where people have extremely high levels of mental illness, where it’s extremely hard to find any type of solace because it’s very noisy, very chaotic.

如果你走进那个环境，而你是文盲或者无法获得这些信息，你就不知道如何应对在牢房里的生活，在一个人们精神疾病发病率极高的环境中，在那里你很难找到任何类型的安慰，因为它非常吵闹、非常混乱。

Even with the officers, you see how it transforms them into different people and how they treat the men in that environment.

即使是军官，你也能看到他们如何变成不同的人，以及他们如何在那种环境下对待警察。

So I can’t say that solitary itself done me any good in that way.

所以我不能说孤独本身对我有任何好处。

I was just fortunate to be able to make choices based on information that I had at my disposal.

我很幸运能够根据我掌握的信息做出选择。

On decriminalizing mental illness

关于精神疾病非刑事化

But one of the things people don’t think about is that, if you’re dealing with somebody who has schizophrenia, they can’t even comprehend the rules in a way that somebody who doesn’t have it does.

但人们没有想到的一件事是，如果你面对的是患有精神分裂症的人，他们甚至无法像没有精神分裂症的人那样理解规则。

Prisons just aren’t equipped to handle mental illness.

监狱根本没有能力应对精神疾病。

In Michigan, when I went to prison — this was 1991, and at that time, my father actually worked in a mental health space, and they just started closing down all these facilities.

在密歇根州，当我入狱时——那是 1991 年，当时我父亲实际上在一个心理健康空间工作，他们刚刚开始关闭所有这些设施。

Those people who would normally get treatment in a mental health facility started ending up in prison.

那些通常会在精神卫生机构接受治疗的人开始入狱。

Once they get in, it’s extremely hard for them to get out because the behavior, which is rooted in their mental illness, is in violation of the prison rules.

一旦他们进了监狱，就很难再出来，因为这种行为的根源在于他们的精神疾病，违反了监狱的规定。

So they continue to get punished over and over and over again.

所以他们继续一次又一次地受到惩罚。

To me, it’s the saddest and it’s the sickest thing about our prison system that we have because there’s not a lot of transparency.

对我来说，这是我们监狱系统中最悲伤、最恶心的事情，因为缺乏足够的透明度。

Most citizens who are paying the taxes for these spaces don’t know what happens in our prison.

大多数为这些空间纳税的公民不知道我们的监狱里发生了什么。

And that’s crazy.

这太疯狂了。

When you really think about it, prior to President Obama leaving office, he was the first sitting president in about four decades to actually go inside a prison.

仔细想想，在奥巴马总统卸任之前，他是大约四十年来第一位真正走进监狱的在任总统。

When you think about the reality that we have over 2 million men and women in prison, millions more on parole or probation, and this has a profound impact on our society.

想想现实吧，我们有超过 200 万男女入狱，还有数百万人处于假释或缓刑状态，这对我们的社会产生了深远的影响。

We don’t know what’s going on in there.

我们不知道里面发生了什么。

If it wasn’t for people like myself and the many other advocates of prison and criminal justice reform getting out and being able to articulate what has happened in there and what’s happening to people, society would still be ignorant to what’s really going on.

如果不是像我这样的人以及许多其他监狱和刑事司法改革的倡导者走出去，能够清楚地阐明监狱里发生的事情以及人们身上发生的事情，社会仍然会对真正发生的事情一无所知。

For me, it’s one of the things that inspired me to write the book because I wanted people to know this is what we’re paying for.

对我来说，这是激励我写这本书的原因之一，因为我想让人们知道这就是我们付出的代价。

They’re an extension of shadow slavery, which you know is a reality of our country.

它们是影子奴隶制的延伸，你知道这是我们国家的现实。

You think about the 13th Amendment, which was supposed to eliminate slavery — it actually created a loophole for slavery to reemerge in a new way.

你想想第十三修正案，它本应消除奴隶制，但它实际上为奴隶制以新的方式重新出现创造了一个漏洞。

And as you know, you see that in prisons, where you get this cheap labor and oftentimes free labor, and people are exploited and have been exploited for years.

正如你所知，你会看到，在监狱里，你可以获得廉价劳动力，而且常常是免费劳动力，人们被剥削，而且已经被剥削多年。

But now, I think both parties are realizing it’s coming at an astronomical cost to the rest of society.

但现在，我认为双方都意识到这会给社会其他人带来天文数字的代价。

This is where you’ve seen a shift in terms of criminal justice reform.

这就是刑事司法改革方面的转变。

When I went to prison, I thought my life was over.

当我进监狱的时候，我以为我的人生就结束了。

I didn’t think I was ever getting out.

我不认为我会出去。

I was 19 years old, looking at 17 to 40 years, with 40 being the only guaranteed time.

我当时19岁，展望17到40岁，其中40岁是唯一有保证的时间。

And as a 19-year-old, you can barely see two weeks down the line, let alone two decades.

作为一个 19 岁的人，你几乎看不到两周的未来，更不用说二十年了。

So I acted out of that emotional instability that most young guys act out of when they’re in an environment that’s very volatile — a lot of fights, a lot of rebellion.

所以我的行为是出于情绪不稳定，大多数年轻人在一个非常不稳定的环境中时都会表现出这样的情绪——很多争吵，很多叛逆。

For me, it took years to really just .

对我来说，花了好几年的时间才真正做到了。

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the maturing nature.

成熟的本质。

Even now, out here in California, they recognize the brain science that the brains of kids don’t actually mature until they’re about 25, 26.

即使是现在，在加利福尼亚州，他们也认识到大脑科学表明，孩子的大脑要到 25、26 岁左右才会真正成熟。

So you’re still considered a juvenile at that point.

所以那时你仍然被认为是青少年。

Imagine if you’re 19 years old, you’re thrown into this volatile environment, and you’re told that you have to be a model prisoner in order to get out.

想象一下，如果你 19 岁，你被扔进这个不稳定的环境中，你被告知必须成为模范囚犯才能逃脱。

It’s not realistic that that’s going to happen.

这种情况发生是不现实的。

And the other part of it is that it’s a very antagonistic environment.

另一方面是这是一个非常敌对的环境。

It took me years to develop empathy and compassion for the officers that actually work in the environment, and it actually occurred to me when I was leaving off a visit.

我花了好几年的时间才对那些在环境中实际工作的警官产生了同理心和同情心，当我结束访问时，我确实想到了这一点。

Anytime you go on a visit in prison, when you come out of the visit, you have to get strip-searched.

任何时候你去监狱探视，探视结束后，你都必须接受脱衣搜身。

I would always wonder, “Why is this officer so antagonistic doing the strip search?”

我总是想知道，“为什么这位警官如此敌对地进行脱衣搜查？”

And then I would just realize, his job is to look at buttholes 40 hours a week.

然后我才意识到，他的工作是每周 40 小时观察屁眼。

That can’t be a pleasant job to have.

这可不是什么令人愉快的工作。

To think that this is your job, this is your life.

认为这是你的工作，这就是你的生活。

This is how you earn your livelihood to take care of and provide for your family.

这就是您谋生、照顾和供养家人的方式。

The reality is that you’re going to be impacted by that.

现实是你会受到影响。

And you’re talking about every matter of buttholes you can think of: shaven, unshaven, fat, slim, clean, unclean.

你正在谈论你能想到的所有屁眼问题：刮毛的、不刮毛的、肥胖的、苗条的、干净的、不干净的。

And this is a job that people have.

这是人们的工作。

You have to imagine that it’s not comfortable being in that position.

你必须想象处于那个位置并不舒服。

What does that do to a human being?

这对人类有什么作用？

How does that change you, when you’re seeing people at their worst and most vulnerable moment as an occupation?

当你看到人们作为职业处于最糟糕和最脆弱的时刻时，这对你有何改变？

Then you have to figure out, how do you treat these people with dignity when your job doesn’t even have dignity in its title description?

然后你必须弄清楚，当你的工作甚至在标题描述中都没有尊严时，你如何有尊严地对待这些人？

So for that, you start to think about how people are impacted and why the environment becomes so antagonistic.

为此，你开始思考人们如何受到影响以及为什么环境变得如此敌对。

And it starts to all make sense.

这一切开始变得有意义了。

So, yeah, I got into a lot of trouble.

所以，是的，我遇到了很多麻烦。

I grew up in a city that’s predominantly black, in Detroit, but every prison I was in was predominantly run by white guards from rural communities.

我在底特律一个以黑人为主的城市长大，但我所在的每座监狱主要由来自农村社区的白人警卫管理。

So there’s an instant antagonism because in a lot of instances, their first interaction with people of color is happening in a very volatile, very antagonistic environment.

因此，存在即时的对抗，因为在很多情况下，他们与有色人种的第一次互动是在一个非常不稳定、非常敌对的环境中发生的。

And you know, it’s hard to come out of that environment and be a nice person.

你知道，从那种环境中走出来并成为一个好人是很困难的。

I was really fortunate to meet people in that environment that were just good people.

我真的很幸运能够在那个环境中遇到一些好人。

I’ve worked for a guy, my recreation supervisor, named Tom Scheidt.

我曾为一个名叫汤姆·沙伊特的人工作过，他是我的娱乐主管。

He’s one of my good friends to this day, and he’s one of the men who I worked for in that environment that was super compassionate, super thoughtful.

迄今为止，他是我的好朋友之一，也是我在那个超级富有同情心、超级体贴的环境中工作的人之一。

We worked in a tough environment, the recreation center.

我们在一个艰苦的环境——娱乐中心——工作。

When we come out for yard, you’re talking about 300 guys that’s locked in this one building.

当我们出来到院子里时，你说的是 300 个人被锁在这一栋楼里。

It’s one officer and one rec supervisor and maybe sometimes two recreation supervisors.

由一名警官和一名娱乐主管组成，有时可能还有两名娱乐主管。

The thing that made Tom special is he always acknowledged our humanity.

汤姆的特别之处在于他始终承认我们的人性。

He always was thoughtful about how he engaged us.

他总是深思熟虑如何与我们互动。

He always was trying to inspire the best in us.

他总是试图激发我们最好的一面。

So I’m always conscious to not portray everybody who works in the system as bad people because there are people who are well meaning and good intentioned.

所以我总是有意识地不把体制内工作的每个人都描绘成坏人，因为有些人是善意的、善意的。

It’s just a tough environment to maintain that when you’ve been in it for so long.

当你在这样的环境中呆了这么久之后，要维持这样的环境是很困难的。

Even in California, I’ve worked with people in the CDCR who are just incredibly thoughtful about, how do we transform the spaces to where you can help men and women come home healthy and whole?

即使在加利福尼亚州，我也曾与CDCR的人们一起工作过，他们非常深思熟虑，我们如何将空间改造为可以帮助男人和女人健康完整地回家的地方？

Unfortunately, it’s just not the norm around the country.

不幸的是，这在全国范围内并不常见。

And it’s all about identity.

这一切都与身份有关。

I went in with a distorted identity of who I was as a person.

我带着扭曲的身份进入了这个行业。

I grew up in an environment that tells you that your only outcomes can be an early death or a prison sentence.

我成长的环境告诉你，你唯一的结果可能是早逝或入狱。

So that behavior and that narrative is normalized.

因此，这种行为和叙述已经正常化。

It wasn’t until I began to change the narrative internally by finding ways to add value to my life, by finding ways to self-identify in a way that was healthy and whole.

直到我开始改变内心的叙述，寻找为我的生活增加价值的方法，寻找以健康和完整的方式自我认同的方法。

Now, there’s definitely that rebellion, When I got out of prison, I was so optimistic.

现在，肯定存在叛逆，当我出狱时，我非常乐观。

I just thought that people would say, “Okay, he served his time.

我只是觉得人们会说：“好吧，他服刑完毕了。

He wants an opportunity to be employed.

他想要一个就业机会。

He just wants to create a space to be a productive citizen.” And sadly, the way society is set up, that’s just not our norm.

他只是想创造一个成为高效公民的空间。”可悲的是，社会的建立方式并不是我们的常态。

It’s hard to find employment.

找工作很难。

So, I’ve had to always create employment opportunities.

所以，我必须一直创造就业机会。

Again, I’ll reiterate this over and over: literacy played a major role to me becoming who I am today, and having a skill set as a writer — it created my first employment opportunity.

再次，我会一遍又一遍地重申这一点：识字对我成为今天的我发挥了重要作用，并且拥有作为作家的技能 - 它创造了我的第一个就业机会。

For me, that energy is still rebellious, but it’s rebellious against injustice.

对我来说，这种能量仍然是叛逆的，但它是对不公正的反抗。

I use that energy, and whenever I find myself angry at an injustice, it’s what can I contribute as a human being to change that?

我利用这种能量，每当我发现自己对不公正感到愤怒时，作为一个人我可以贡献什么来改变这种情况？

To help other people think about things differently, to bring people in proximity to spaces that they normally wouldn’t be in.

帮助其他人以不同的方式思考问题，让人们接近他们通常不会进入的空间。

Again, it’s just directing the energy in a productive way.

再说一次，它只是以一种富有成效的方式引导能量。

On entrepreneurialism in prison

论监狱中的创业精神

So when I got out of prison, I hustled books out of the trunk of my car.

因此，当我出狱时，我从汽车后备箱里拿出书。

I didn’t start off with being a New York Times best seller with a published book by a major publishing outlet, Convergent and Penguin Random House.

我并不是凭借一本由主要出版机构 Convergent 和企鹅兰登书屋出版的书而成为《纽约时报》畅销书的。

I started off self-published out of the trunk of the car.

我开始在汽车后备箱里自行出版。

And basically, I used the same model that I used when I sold crack cocaine.

基本上，我使用的模型与销售强效可卡因时使用的模型相同。

It’s like you buy low, sell high, and you create profit or create margins based on how you invest.

这就像你低买高卖，然后根据你的投资方式创造利润或利润。

Even with networking — I learned that in the street.

即使有了网络——我也是在街上学到的。

I learned that in order to survive in the street, you need to have allies in different areas.

我了解到，为了在街上生存，你需要在不同地区拥有盟友。

And you need to have partnerships if you want to be successful as a drug entrepreneur, a pharmaceutical, a street distributor.

如果你想成为一名成功的药品企业家、制药商、街头经销商，你就需要建立合作伙伴关系。

You need to figure out how to be networked in not even just different neighborhoods but in different cities.

您需要弄清楚如何不仅在不同的社区而且在不同的城市建立联系。

So those are transferable skills.

所以这些都是可转移的技能。

The leadership that I developed in the street culture and in prison .

我在街头文化和监狱中培养的领导力。

.

。

.

。

even in an underground market in prison, I ran a lot of the hustles in there early on.

即使是在监狱的地下市场，我也很早就在那里进行了很多忙碌。

Basically, I would run what we called sucker stores or black market stores, and they have an incredible margin.

基本上，我会经营我们所谓的傻瓜商店或黑市商店，它们的利润令人难以置信。

You buy one product from me; then you owe me two when you get your money.

你从我这里购买一件产品；那你拿到钱后就欠我两笔钱了。

That skill set transfers to any entrepreneur endeavor, and a lot of men and women in that environment have that skill set, but they also have many other skill sets.

这种技能可以转移到任何企业家的努力中，并且在这种环境中的许多男人和女人都拥有这种技能，但他们也拥有许多其他技能。

There’s brilliant artists in that environment.

在那种环境下有才华横溢的艺术家。

There’s brilliant singers and athletes and creators.

这里有才华横溢的歌手、运动员和创作者。

And I think it’s one of the spaces where, now, people are starting to realize we’ve been throwing away talent.

我认为这是人们现在开始意识到我们一直在抛弃人才的领域之一。

And always think of it from this perspective, right?

并且总是从这个角度去思考，对吗？

I was a fellow at MIT Media Lab, and I did a prison hack there one day.

我是麻省理工学院媒体实验室的一名研究员，有一天我在那里进行了一次监狱黑客攻击。

Basically, I gave them five design challenges based on how we survived in prison.

基本上，我根据我们在监狱中的生存方式给了他们五个设计挑战。

And they were as complex as making a tattoo gun out of a tape player motor or ink pen and a guitar string, on to making a lighter out of batteries and wire.

它们的复杂程度就像用磁带播放器电机或墨水笔和吉他弦制作纹身枪，以及用电池和电线制作打火机一样复杂。

These are things that men inside prison do all the time to survive.

这些都是监狱里的人为了生存而一直做的事情。

When I did this hackathon, none of the students were able to complete it in the time that was allotted.

当我参加这个黑客马拉松时，没有一个学生能够在规定的时间内完成它。

It was about three hours.

大约三个小时。

You go in any prison, and guys will complete that task in 30 seconds.

你去任何监狱，人们都会在 30 秒内完成这项任务。

When people get caught in there, they’re put in solitary.

当人们被困在那里时，他们会被单独监禁。

You make a tattoo gun, you’re put in solitary.

你制作了一把纹身枪，然后你被单独关押。

Whereas if we’re really thoughtful about what are the best outcomes we can produce, how about we get this person in the engineering class and figure out how they can utilize that skill set when they get out of prison, as opposed to punishing them for figuring out how to survive?

然而，如果我们真正考虑到我们能产生的最佳结果是什么，我们是否可以让这个人参加工程课程，并弄清楚他们出狱后如何利用这些技能，而不是因为他们弄清楚如何生存而惩罚他们？

Everything has currency, and it’s one of the things that’s interesting about the environment.

一切都有货币，这是环境中有趣的事情之一。

When you think about the history of currency in the world, where back in the day, you just bartered and you exchanged things, and the same thing happens in prison.

当你思考世界货币的历史时，在过去，你只是以物易物，交换东西，同样的事情也发生在监狱里。

What I learned from that is that money is only based on the idea behind it and what value you assign to the idea behind the particular form of currency you choose to exchange.

我从中学到的是，货币仅基于其背后的想法以及您为您选择交换的特定货币形式背后的想法分配的价值。

And the same thing is in prison.

在监狱里也是如此。

And you have some brilliant, brilliant comedians in that environment.

在那种环境下有一些才华横溢的喜剧演员。

There’s actually a comedian who’s free now, Ali Siddiq, who’s just an incredible storyteller, and he’s a great comedian.

实际上有一位喜剧演员现在获得了自由，阿里·西迪克（Ali Siddiq），他是一位令人难以置信的讲故事的人，而且他是一位伟大的喜剧演员。

And that talent is abundant in that environment.

在那种环境下人才非常丰富。

Guys crack jokes all the time.

伙计们总是开玩笑。

The officers crack jokes.

官员们开玩笑。

It’s one of the things that is universal — laughter — and you need that in order to survive hardship.

笑是一种普遍存在的东西，你需要它才能度过困难。

On the biggest change in the world after getting out

论出狱后世界最大的变化

So when I came home and I realized you can Skype people — that made me think about The Jetsons, the things that I grew up as a kid watching and we never thought would be possible.

所以当我回到家时，我意识到你可以通过 Skype 与人们进行交流，这让我想起了《杰森一家》，这些我小时候看着长大的东西，我们从未想过这是可能的。

Cars that talk, telephone and smart technology.

会说话的汽车、电话和智能技术。

All those things were overwhelming.

所有这些事情都是压倒性的。

They were fascinating, but also a bit overwhelming because I realized that in that 20 years that I had been gone, the world had created a whole new language.

它们很令人着迷，但也有点让人不知所措，因为我意识到在我离开的 20 年里，世界创造了一种全新的语言。

Even in the 10 years since I’ve been home, so much has changed in that time period.

即使我回家已有十年，那段时间也发生了很多变化。

So it was just a quick, fast learning curve.

所以这只是一个快速的学习曲线。

When I got out, I remember the anxiety.

当我出来的时候，我还记得当时的焦虑。

I didn’t even know the difference between a Word document and the internet.

我什至不知道Word文档和互联网之间的区别。

I remember every time I was getting ready to save a Word document, I would always ask, “Is this going to get a computer virus?” Because I didn’t know the difference between those two things.

我记得每次准备保存Word文档时，我总会问：“这个会不会感染电脑病毒？”因为我不知道这两件事之间的区别。

So I had a quick learning curve.

所以我的学习曲线很快。

I had to learn all this new language.

我必须学习所有这些新语言。

And I’m a nerd too, so I’m just a cool nerd.

我也是一个书呆子，所以我只是一个很酷的书呆子。

But I love it.

但我喜欢它。

I love learning.

我热爱学习。

I love the idea of how to utilize this as a writer and as a content creator.

我喜欢作为作家和内容创作者如何利用这一点的想法。

It was just fascinating to come out and discover this fascinating technology and all the different ways it allows us to connect today.

走出去并发现这项令人着迷的技术以及它让我们今天能够连接的所有不同方式真是令人着迷。

It’s like the world that we live in now seems to be very volatile in terms of human interaction.

就像我们现在生活的世界在人类互动方面似乎非常不稳定。

I think what social media has done has really just exposed us for who we truly are.

我认为社交媒体所做的确实让我们暴露了真实的自己。

In years past it was easy to kind of mask racism, and mask gender bias, and mask misogyny and all these different things because we didn’t have this level of transparency that we have now.

在过去的几年里，掩盖种族主义、性别偏见、厌女症和所有这些不同的事情很容易，因为我们没有现在这样程度的透明度。

I think that this is part of our growth.

我认为这是我们成长的一部分。

You have to have that transparency.

你必须有这种透明度。

You have to have something that challenges the way that we think, the way that we see things.

你必须有一些东西能够挑战我们的思维方式和看待事物的方式。

And when you have that, it’s very uncomfortable early on.

当你遇到这种情况时，一开始会感到非常不舒服。

But hopefully — and maybe this is just the optimist in me — I think we’ll get through these rough periods and find what I believe is our common core values of being humane and compassionate toward each other.

但希望——也许这只是我内心的乐观——我认为我们会度过这些艰难时期，并找到我认为的共同核心价值观，即人道和彼此富有同情心。

It’s when you get out to society and you realize racism shows up in different ways, though.

然而，当你走入社会时，你就会意识到种族主义以不同的方式出现。

There’s systemic racism, there is implicit bias, there’s ignorance, there’s blatant overt racism.

有系统性的种族主义，有隐性的偏见，有无知，有公然的公开种族主义。

And I think the reason that it exists in the form that it exists in is because as a country, we’ve been cowardly in just saying, “Hey, this is what has happened here.”

我认为它之所以以这种形式存在，是因为作为一个国家，我们一直懦弱地只是说：“嘿，这就是这里发生的事情。”

We’re coming up on 400 years.

我们即将迎来 400 周年。

The New York Times is doing this incredible study or examination of the 400 years since 1619, when the first enslaved people were brought to the shores of America.

《纽约时报》正在对 1619 年第一批奴隶被带到美国海岸以来的 400 年来进行这项令人难以置信的研究或考察。

When you think about that, it’s been 400 years that we haven’t had an honest conversation.

想想看，我们已经 400 年没有进行过诚实的对话了。

We haven’t had a national apology.

我们还没有得到全国性的道歉。

And I think until we have those things, we’ll always grapple with the reality of racism in America and how it permeates so many aspects of our culture.

我认为，在我们拥有这些东西之前，我们将始终努力解决美国种族主义的现实以及它如何渗透到我们文化的许多方面。

To me, I think it’s just cowardly and lazy thinking because once you can say, “Hey, this was really a terrible thing that’s happened and to happen to other people, and we see how it impacts other people, and we see how systemically it hurts and harms people,” then you can have a real conversation.

对我来说，我认为这只是懦弱和懒惰的想法，因为一旦你可以说，“嘿，这确实是一件可怕的事情，发生在其他人身上，我们看到它如何影响其他人，我们看到它如何系统性地伤害和伤害人们，”然后你就可以进行真正的对话。

I think When They See Us, specifically the fourth part of that, was really intriguing in terms of showing people how the system is so flawed.

我认为《当他们看到我们》，特别是其中的第四部分，向人们展示了这个系统是如何存在如此缺陷的，这真的很有趣。

From a documentary standpoint, what Ava DuVernay did with 13th was just brilliant because it connected all the dots between the 13th Amendment and what’s currently happening in terms of mass incarceration.

从纪录片的角度来看，艾娃·杜威内 (Ava DuVernay) 在《第 13 条修正案》中所做的事情非常出色，因为它将第 13 条修正案与当前大规模监禁方面发生的情况联系起来。

There was the Kalief Browder movie, which was really about this young man who was accused of a crime he didn’t commit, and he went through two years of solitary confinement.

卡利夫·布劳德 (Kalief Browder) 的电影实际上是关于一个年轻人被指控犯有他没有犯下的罪行的故事，他经历了两年的单独监禁。

When he got out, he was unable to unpack all the things that happened to him and eventually committed suicide.

当他出来时，他无法解开发生在他身上的所有事情，最终自杀了。

I think that was just such a tragic story and a narrative that we should all keep our eyes on because it’s happening to so many people.

我认为这是一个如此悲惨的故事和叙述，我们都应该关注，因为它发生在很多人身上。

But I definitely think we’re poised for something that’s more about the human journey, and what happens to humans on the inside, and what even leads to people being in prison.

但我绝对认为我们已经准备好迎接更多关于人类旅程的事情，以及人类内部发生的事情，甚至导致人们入狱的事情。

I’m hoping to be able to add to that narrative in some way soon.

我希望很快能够以某种方式添加到这个叙述中。

On religion in prison

论监狱中的宗教信仰

To me, I think the greatest scripture ever written is nature itself.

对我来说，我认为有史以来最伟大的经文就是自然本身。

If you think about the infinite nature of the sky or the depth of the ocean — to me, I think that’s metaphors for who we are as human beings, like our infinite ability to connect and the depth of which we can really stretch our imagination across any sector if we’re present to it.

如果你想想天空的无限本质或海洋的深度——对我来说，我认为这就是我们作为人类的隐喻，就像我们无限的联系能力，以及如果我们身处其中的话，我们可以真正将我们的想象力延伸到任何领域的深度。

Meditation is a big part of how I live my life.

冥想是我生活方式的重要组成部分。

Mindfulness — being super present in the moment — is really important to me because I think the moments are all that we have.

正念——活在当下——对我来说非常重要，因为我认为当下就是我们所拥有的一切。

I studied religion a lot early on in my incarceration, largely influences of Malcolm X and his journey — that self-discipline that he was able to develop through his religious practices.

我在入狱初期就研究了很多宗教，很大程度上受到马尔科姆·X 和他的旅程的影响——他通过宗教实践培养了自律。

And just the curiosity, like historically, what we’ve thought about a divine power bringing all of this magic into the world as we know it now.

只是好奇，就像历史上一样，我们对将所有这些魔法带入我们现在所知道的世界的神圣力量有何看法。

I’m still on that quest, still on that journey.

我仍在那个追求中，仍在那个旅程中。

I’m still learning.

我还在学习。

That’s the thing I love about life — every interaction is an opportunity to learn.

这就是我热爱生活的一点——每一次互动都是一个学习的机会。

I probably study more Eastern philosophy than anything because I’m really about self-governance.

我可能更多地学习东方哲学，因为我真正关心的是自治。

I’m all about personal responsibility and accountability, and I don’t think that you have to deify that in order to be successful and to be spiritually connected.

我非常注重个人责任和义务，我不认为你必须将其神化才能获得成功并在精神上保持联系。

I think that it’s just a pathway to deeper learning when you don’t have the restrictions of somebody else’s dogma.

我认为，当你不受别人教条的限制时，这只是深入学习的一条途径。

But it’s one of the spaces where I learned the most about life and how I wanted to show up in the world.

但这是我对生活以及我想如何出现在世界上了解最多的地方之一。

It was through that pathway that I got introduced to a wealth of knowledge, and the ability to study and learn and be disciplined in my practices.

正是通过这条途径，我获得了丰富的知识，以及学习和学习的能力以及在实践中遵守纪律的能力。

It played an integral role in my development as a man.

它在我作为一个男人的发展中发挥了不可或缺的作用。

With that pathway of leadership, I really was able to grow in terms of understanding how you practice what you preach.

通过这条领导之路，我确实能够在理解如何实践你所宣扬的方面有所成长。

Because it’s very difficult to do in prison.

因为在监狱里这是很难做到的。

It’s a very volatile environment.

这是一个非常不稳定的环境。

But it was through that pathway that I was able to refine my own personal principles and evolve as a leader.

但正是通过这条道路，我才能够完善自己的个人原则并发展成为一名领导者。

Listening to Ben sometimes, who’s not only a great friend of mine, but he’s like my default mentor.

有时听本的讲话，他不仅是我的好朋友，而且就像我默认的导师。

I don’t know if I’ve ever even told him that, but he’s such a wealth of wisdom.

我不知道我是否曾告诉过他这一点，但他是如此富有智慧。

And one of the stories he tells is about talking to a woman who runs an all-women-based company.

他讲述的故事之一是与一位经营一家全女性公司的女性交谈。

He asked her a question about why, and what does she look for, and she said helpfulness, and that women oftentimes are more helpful than men.

他问她为什么，以及她在寻找什么，她说乐于助人，而且女性通常比男性更乐于助人。

What I think of in hiring practices or in recruitment or partnerships or things like that is, what are the skill sets that I’m lacking?

我在招聘实践、招聘、合作伙伴关系或类似事情中的想法是，我缺乏哪些技能？

Because otherwise you end up hiring somebody who’s like you, and then you’re just running down the same railroad, and you’re not able to accomplish as much.

因为否则你最终会雇用像你一样的人，然后你就会沿着同一条铁路运行，并且你无法完成那么多工作。

So I’m always thinking about what are the skill sets that I don’t have or what my organization — Now, I’m building out my own creative content company.

所以我总是在思考我不具备哪些技能，或者我的组织是什么——现在，我正在建立自己的创意内容公司。

And I’m always thinking, “Okay, what are the skill sets that I don’t have?” I know I can create the content.

我总是在想，“好吧，我不具备哪些技能？”我知道我可以创建内容。

I can deliver the content.

我可以提供内容。

But what are the intangibles that I need in order to be successful as a content creator in the world?

但是，为了成为世界上成功的内容创作者，我需要哪些无形资产呢？

It’s always those things that often fly off people’s radar.

总是那些经常被人们忽视的事情。

In prison, there were different things that were needed.

在监狱里，需要不同的东西。

When you’re running an organization in that environment, your preoccupation is with safety.

当您在这种环境中运营一个组织时，您最关心的是安全。

But it’s also with how do you create allies, and that’s a different skill set.

但这也与如何建立盟友有关，这是一套不同的技能。

So you’re looking for somebody who’s diplomatic, somebody who understands how to create space for both parties to walk away with their manhood intact and with their safety and well-being secured.

因此，你正在寻找一个有外交手腕的人，一个懂得如何为双方创造空间，让他们在离开时保持完整的男子气概，并确保他们的安全和福祉的人。

So it’s always about those intangible skill sets.

所以它总是与那些无形的技能有关。

And then there’s also the other part of just the safety of knowing that this person isn’t out here running amok and that they have their undivided attention.

然后还有另一部分的安全感，那就是知道这个人不会在这里胡作非为，而且他们会全心全意地关注。

So those relationships can be healthy and productive, or they can be very unbalanced and dysfunctional in a different way.

因此，这些关系可能是健康且富有成效的，也可能以不同的方式非常不平衡和功能失调。

But it’s all types of relationships that show up in that environment.

但在这种环境中会出现所有类型的关系。

On Detroit

关于底特律

Detroit is essential to the fabric of America in a way that people don’t often think of.

底特律以人们不常想到的方式对美国的结构至关重要。

The automotive industry — that’s where it emerged, in Detroit.

汽车工业——这就是它的发源地，底特律。

So without Detroit, there’s no car industry.

因此，没有底特律，就没有汽车工业。

Motown music — I don’t know many people who have not heard a song from Motown in various ways.

摩城音乐——据我所知，没有多少人没有以各种方式听过摩城的歌曲。

We’ve contributed mightily to American culture.

我们为美国文化做出了巨大贡献。

But what I would create would be a very high-level tech-inspired entrepreneurial school, a school for hustlers that includes all the technology, but also even in vocational.

但我要创建的是一所非常高水平的受科技启发的创业学校，一所为骗子开设的学校，其中包括所有技术，甚至包括职业技术。

I think that those trades are often overlooked, and we live in an economy now where people are looking for laborers in carpentry and electricians and plumbers and things like that.

我认为这些行业经常被忽视，而我们现在生活的经济体中，人们正在寻找木工、电工、水管工等类似的劳动力。

So it’d be a hybrid school of technology and vocational.

所以这将是一所技术和职业的混合学校。

But with that Detroit swagger added to it.

但加上底特律的狂妄自大。

But the other thing that really excites me is techno music, and a lot of people don’t know the roots of techno music being in Detroit.

但真正让我兴奋的另一件事是电子音乐，很多人不知道电子音乐的根源在底特律。

Now, we have all this music — I think they call it emo, EDM.

现在，我们有了所有这些音乐——我想他们称之为 emo、EDM。

They have some fancy name for it now, but it’s rooted in techno music.

他们现在给它起了一些奇特的名字，但它植根于电子音乐。

And the architects of that music grew up in Detroit and started there.

这种音乐的设计师在底特律长大并从那里开始。

When I think about music culture, those things really matter to me.

当我思考音乐文化时，这些事情对我来说真的很重要。

And of course, Marvin Gaye and What’s Going On.

当然，还有马文·盖伊和发生了什么。

It’s so timeless, and it still applies to where we at in America right now.

它是如此永恒，它仍然适用于我们现在在美国的情况。

The musical legacy there is just unparalleled.

那里的音乐遗产是无与伦比的。

Basically, you have these artists who are using their platform to talk about social impact.

基本上，这些艺术家正在利用他们的平台来谈论社会影响。

I just spent time with Nas, who inspired me when I was incarcerated, like his song “One Love.” I felt like it was a personal letter to me.

我刚刚和纳斯一起度过了一段时光，他在我入狱时激励了我，就像他的歌曲“One Love”一样。我觉得这是一封写给我的私人信件。

So to be able to come full circle through our relationship with Ben and spend time with him and just show him how his music is inspiring people to think about life differently.

因此，我们能够圆满结束我们与 Ben 的关系，花时间和他在一起，向他展示他的音乐如何激励人们以不同的方式思考生活。

There’s nothing more revolutionary than turning around the hearts and minds of men who are in environments where there seems to be no hope.

没有什么比改变那些生活在似乎没有希望的环境中的人们的心灵和思想更具革命性的了。

I still think it’s revolutionary, even though a lot of it’s been commercialized.

我仍然认为它是革命性的，尽管其中很多已经商业化。

I’m always finding artists who are really pushing the envelope — artists like J.

我总是在寻找真正挑战极限的艺术家——像 J.

Cole and Kendrick Lamar who are doing super innovative things and shifting the way that we see the world.

科尔和肯德里克·拉马尔正在做超级创新的事情，改变了我们看待世界的方式。

There’s nothing more revolutionary than turning around the hearts and minds of men who are in environments where there seems to be no hope.

没有什么比改变那些生活在似乎没有希望的环境中的人们的心灵和思想更具革命性的了。

I still think it’s revolutionary, even though a lot of been commercialized.

我仍然认为它是革命性的，尽管很多已经商业化。

I’m always finding artists who are really pushing the envelope…

我总是在寻找真正挑战极限的艺术家……

doing super innovative things and shifting the way that we see the world.

做超级创新的事情并改变我们看待世界的方式。

But he’s just an incredibly thoughtful friend, and his wife Felicia, who’s like my big sister — they’ve been so kind and gracious in helping me really celebrate life.

但他只是一个非常体贴的朋友，他的妻子费利西亚就像我的姐姐一样——他们非常友善和亲切地帮助我真正庆祝生活。

They’ve given me an abundance of gifts in the way of life experiences and saying, “Hey, you should go out and just celebrate.

他们在生活经历方面给了我丰富的礼物，并说：“嘿，你应该出去庆祝一下。

You’re free now.” So we’re going to kick that off.

你现在自由了。”所以我们要开始了。

Then December, I’m taking a trip to Ghana for two weeks —

然后十二月，我要去加纳旅行两周——

So I’m celebrating by doing 10 crazy different experiences.

所以我通过 10 种疯狂的不同体验来庆祝。

Some of them require travel.

其中一些需要旅行。

I’m going to Tokyo at some point.

我某个时候要去东京。

I’m going to skydive, probably around the celebration anniversary of my freedom.

我要去跳伞，可能是在庆祝我的自由周年纪念日前后。

It’s really about taking a leap of faith because under any other circumstance, I never would have been just jumping out of an airplane.

这实际上是一种信念的飞跃，因为在任何其他情况下，我都不会从飞机上跳下来。

On the problem of recidivism

关于累犯问题

There’s an organization that’s led by Van Jones called Reform Alliance, who’s doing some incredible work about reforming the probation system.

有一个由范·琼斯领导的组织，名为“改革联盟”，该组织在改革缓刑制度方面做了一些令人难以置信的工作。

That’s based on the rapper Meek Mill.

这是根据说唱歌手米克米尔改编的。

He was incarcerated.

他被监禁了。

He was sentenced to two to four years for the most ridiculous probation violation.

他因最荒谬的缓刑违规行为而被判处两到四年有期徒刑。

He popped a wheelie in New York and broke up a fistfight with his friend and some guy who accosted his friend, and they violated his probation and then sentenced him to two to four years.

他在纽约摔了一跤，并与他的朋友和一些与他朋友搭讪的人打架，他们违反了他的缓刑，然后判处他两到四年的徒刑。

A group of us — when I was working with #cut50 that was led by Jessica Jackson at the time — we created a campaign, the Free Meek Mill’s campaign along with Roc Nation.

我们一群人——当我与当时由杰西卡·杰克逊领导的 #cut50 合作时——我们与 Roc Nation 一起发起了一项运动，即 Free Meek Mill 的运动。

Now they’ve shifted that into a whole new movement to end probation, technical probation and parole violations.

现在，他们将其转变为一场全新的运动，以结束缓刑、技术缓刑和假释违规行为。

So one of the things is the restrictions that people have.

所以其中一件事就是人们所受到的限制。

Say, for example, I was out on parole, and I was jaywalking, and an officer approached me and said, “You know what, you’re jaywalking.

举例来说，我正在假释期间，我正在乱穿马路，一名警官走近我说：“你知道吗，你正在乱穿马路。

I’m writing you a ticket.” I have to go report that to my parole officer, and my parole officer can decide whether to violate my parole because I’ve come in contact with law enforcement again.

我正在给你写一张罚单。”我必须去向我的假释官报告，我的假释官可以决定是否违反我的假释，因为我再次与执法部门联系。

People go back for stuff as ridiculous as jaywalking.

人们回去是为了像乱穿马路这样可笑的事情。

People go back because they can’t pay fees and fines, and if you can’t pay your fees and fines, you end up getting your parole violated.

人们回去是因为他们无法支付费用和罚款，如果您无法支付费用和罚款，您最终会违反假释规定。

It’s kind of ridiculous when you think about it because it’s so hard to find employment.

当你想到这一点时，你会发现这有点可笑，因为找工作太难了。

To disrupt that, one, we need to do away with these technical violations.

为了打破这种局面，第一，我们需要消除这些技术违规行为。

Secondly, we have to create space for people to find employment and housing.

其次，要为群众就业、住房创造空间。

When I got out of prison, I didn’t know that it was legal to discriminate against people with a felony in housing.

当我出狱时，我不知道在住房方面歧视有重罪的人是合法的。

I didn’t know that it was legal to discriminate against people with a felony when it comes to, in some states, voting.

我不知道在某些州，在投票方面歧视有重罪的人是合法的。

So you can pay taxes, but you can’t vote in some states.

所以你可以纳税，但在某些州你不能投票。

You can be barred from employment by having a felony on your record.

如果您有重罪记录，您可能会被禁止就业。

A lot of people don’t even know that you can actually be charged more for life insurance if you have a felony.

很多人甚至不知道，如果您犯有重罪，您实际上可能会被收取更高的人寿保险费用。

You can’t use TSA, which our taxes pay for, if you have a felony.

如果您犯有重罪，则不能使用 TSA，这是我们的税款。

There’s literally 40,000 collateral consequences of having a felony on your record, so it’s exceptionally hard for people to get out of prison and to not only survive but to thrive at any level.

记录在案的重罪实际上会带来 40,000 种附带后果，因此，人们要想出狱、不仅要生存，而且要在任何级别上发展都非常困难。

So people oftentimes end up resorting back to hustling just to take care of themselves and provide for their family.

因此，人们常常最终不得不重新忙碌起来，只是为了照顾自己和养家糊口。

I think those things are easily fixable.

我认为这些事情很容易解决。

There’s literally 40,000 collateral consequences of having a felony on your record, so it’s exceptionally hard for people to get out of prison and to not only survive but to thrive at any level.

记录在案的重罪实际上会带来 40,000 种附带后果，因此，人们要想出狱、不仅要生存，而且要在任何级别上发展都非常困难。

So people oftentimes end up resorting back to hustling just to take care of themselves and provide for their family.

因此，人们常常最终不得不重新忙碌起来，只是为了照顾自己和养家糊口。

It’s just ridiculous how that environment exploits the families of men and women who are incarcerated, and oftentimes these families are poor and can’t really afford to stay in contact with their family members or go visit them.

可笑的是，这种环境如何剥削被监禁的男女家庭，而且这些家庭通常很穷，无法真正负担得起与家人保持联系或探望他们的费用。

I don’t know many weed smokers that want to do anything other than eat good food and watch comedy and laugh or do something creative.

我不知道有多少吸食大麻的人除了吃美味的食物、看喜剧、开怀大笑或做一些有创意的事情之外想做任何事情。

Whereas alcohol, on the other hand, oftentimes can be very volatile.

而另一方面，酒精通常非常不稳定。

So I just think we overlegislate people’s lives in a way that’s not healthy, and we see that now with places where marijuana has been legalized.

所以我只是认为我们以一种不健康的方式对人们的生活进行了过度立法，我们现在在大麻合法化的地方看到了这一点。

You haven’t seen an increase in crime.

你没有看到犯罪率的增加。

If anything, you’ve seen a decrease.

如果有什么不同的话，那就是你看到了下降。

The unfortunate part of that is that the people who in the past have been sentenced for drug-related offenses are finding it really hard to enter that industry and make money off that.

不幸的是，过去因毒品相关犯罪而被判刑的人发现很难进入该行业并从中赚钱。

The same people who, at one time, was creating laws to incarcerate people are now creating laws that are creating opportunities for their friends to financially benefit.

那些曾经制定监禁人们的法律的人现在正在制定为他们的朋友创造经济利益机会的法律。

I think we need to change that model and make it easier for people who were at one time incarcerated to engage in that industry.

我认为我们需要改变这种模式，让曾经被监禁过的人更容易参与该行业。

I can’t say about other drugs.

我不能说其他药物。

I still think it’s a personal choice that people make.

我仍然认为这是人们做出的个人选择。

I’m not going to advocate for people to become opioid addicts, but I think decriminalizing it can definitely figure out different ways to deal with that.

我不会提倡人们成为阿片类药物成瘾者，但我认为将其合法化肯定可以找到不同的方法来解决这个问题。

I think people who have opioid addictions or any other Schedule 1 drug addiction should be treated as opposed to incarcerated.

我认为对阿片类药物成瘾或任何其他附表 1 药物成瘾的人应该接受治疗，而不是监禁。

One of the things that we did at that organization is, we hired most of the staff.

我们在该组织所做的事情之一是，我们雇佣了大部分员工。

So when I left, about 68 percent of the staff was system impacted, meaning that they had been in prison from anywhere for 3 years to 30 years.

因此，当我离开时，大约 68% 的员工受到系统影响，这意味着他们已经在任何地方入狱 3 年到 30 年。

I can tell you, some of the best workers with the highest skill set, highest level of commitment that you can ever imagine.

我可以告诉你，一些最优秀的员工拥有你能想象到的最高技能和最高水平的承诺。

Us being on time means being an hour early.

我们准时意味着提前一小时。

We also created partnerships here in LA with vocational trades.

我们还在洛杉矶与职业行业建立了合作伙伴关系。

A lot of our members are actually building the current LA stadium, the new Rams stadium.

我们的许多成员实际上正在建造当前的洛杉矶体育场，即新的公羊队体育场。

There’s a lot of our members who are working in the film industry now as a result of this organization.

由于这个组织，我们现在有很多成员在电影行业工作。

The firefighters — we know that the wildfires are a major issue, especially now, here in LA.

消防员——我们知道野火是一个主要问题，尤其是现在，在洛杉矶。

We created a partnership with LA Fire.

我们与洛杉矶消防局建立了合作伙伴关系。

We created a fire camp in Ventura where formerly incarcerated men are now getting employment to fight these fires, and they’re very committed.

我们在文图拉建立了一个消防营，以前被监禁的人现在在那里找到了扑灭火灾的工作，他们非常投入。

The way that we show up in these spaces, people rave about their work.

我们在这些空间中的出现方式让人们对他们的工作赞不绝口。

For me, it’s really about do we create opportunities that give people hope that they can contribute to society in a meaningful way?

对我来说，真正重要的是我们是否创造机会让人们希望他们能够以有意义的方式为社会做出贡献？

I promise you that when you hire people who are system impacted, you’re going to get some of the best employees ever, and they’re going to show up in a way that’s going to make other employees have to step their game up.

我向你保证，当你雇用受系统影响的人时，你将得到一些有史以来最好的员工，他们将以一种让其他员工不得不提高水平的方式出现。

The more that we’re doing that, the more that we’re normalizing that these are people who had a moment in their life where they were at their lowest point, and that now we can create an opportunity for them to engage in a way that contributes a great deal to society — I think it’s groundbreaking, and it’ll change the world.

我们做得越多，我们就越能认识到这些人在人生中曾处于最低谷，现在我们可以为他们创造一个机会，以一种为社会做出巨大贡献的方式参与——我认为这是开创性的，它将改变世界。

ARC, Anti-Recidivism Coalition, is currently being led by a guy named Sam Lewis who spent 24 years in prison.

ARC（反累犯联盟）目前由一位名叫 Sam Lewis 的人领导，他在监狱里度过了 24 年。

And now he’s running the organization that has a big staff, two offices — one in LA, one in Sacramento — and they’re just doing incredible work over there.

现在他管理着一个拥有大量员工、两个办公室的组织——一个在洛杉矶，一个在萨克拉门托——他们在那里做着令人难以置信的工作。

As a man, I still stand by that principle.

作为一个男人，我仍然坚持这个原则。

I’m not going to do anything that I can’t handle the consequences of, and I’m not going to give somebody up to lessen the burden of those consequences when I agreed to this culture.

我不会做任何我无法承受其后果的事情，当我同意这种文化时，我也不会放弃某人来减轻这些后果的负担。

I think what people often miss when it comes to the no-snitching code is, they try to apply that to citizens, and it doesn’t apply there.

我认为人们在谈到禁止告密守则时经常错过的是，他们试图将其应用于公民，但它并不适用于公民。

If somebody breaks in your car and you are a working citizen and you report that to the police, that’s not snitching.

如果有人闯入你的汽车，而你是一名工作公民，并且你向警方举报，那么这不属于告密。

That’s making sure that you get your insurance paid as a citizen who pays taxes and that you’re provided with the services of the officers.

这是确保您作为纳税公民获得保险，并确保您获得官员的服务。

Fortunately for me, I don’t live in the street code anymore, and I don’t live in that culture.

对我来说幸运的是，我不再生活在街道规范中，也不再生活在那种文化中。

So there’ll never be a circumstance where I have to put that theory to test again in my personal life.

因此，我永远不会在个人生活中再次检验该理论。

I prefer people don’t engage in that culture at all, but I always tell the young guys that I mentor, if you’re going to make that decision to participate in this culture, then you have to be prepared to deal with all the consequences that come with that.

我希望人们根本不参与这种文化，但我总是告诉我指导的年轻人，如果你要做出参与这种文化的决定，那么你必须准备好应对随之而来的所有后果。