Raj Chetty on Teachers, Social Mobility, and How to Find Answers to Big Questions (Ep. 23)
We have with us today Raj Chetty of Stanford University.
今天我们有来自斯坦福大学的 Raj Chetty。
I think of Raj, actually, as the single most influential economist in the world today, and we’ll get to why that is.
事实上，我认为拉杰是当今世界上最有影响力的经济学家，我们会明白其中的原因。
I’d like to go through an arc of Raj’s life and research career.
我想回顾一下拉吉的生活和研究生涯。
As I take it from your last name, am I correct in thinking your family was part of the Tamil diaspora that moved into New Delhi?
从你的姓氏来看，我认为你的家人是移居新德里的泰米尔侨民的一部分，对吗？
What’s the story behind that?
这背后的故事是什么？
That’s right, and thanks, Tyler, for having me.
是的，谢谢泰勒邀请我。
Pleasure to be here.
很高兴来到这里。
My last name, Chetty, actually is the name of a business caste in India, the Chettiars.
我的姓氏切蒂（Chetty）实际上是印度商业种姓切蒂亚斯（Chettiars）的名字。
My family’s originally from Tamil Nadu, and I grew up, I was born in New Delhi, India.
我的家人来自泰米尔纳德邦，我出生在印度新德里。
My parents had actually come to the US and then gone back to India, or in New Delhi, when I was born.
当我出生时，我的父母实际上来到了美国，然后又回到了印度，或者说是新德里。
There’s a quotation by your mother in an interview with her.
你母亲在接受采访时引用了她的话。
She’s a well-known pulmonologist, and she said, “By the time my children were older, I felt education in the US was better and hence, decided to move there.” Do you, in a sense, think of you, Raj Chetty, as writing about yourself — the papers on mobility, importance of physical environment?
她是一位著名的肺科医生，她说：“当我的孩子长大后，我觉得美国的教育更好，因此决定搬到那里。”从某种意义上说，拉吉·切蒂，你是否认为你在写关于你自己的文章——关于流动性、物理环境的重要性的论文？
Is this you you’re writing about?
你正在写的就是你吗？
Yes, in many ways I feel like my interest in the topic and a lot of what the data shows bears out my own personal experience.
是的，在很多方面我觉得我对这个话题很感兴趣，而且很多数据显示的内容证实了我自己的个人经历。
So actually going back, even from my own experience in my family, going back to a previous generation, to my parents.
所以实际上要追溯到，甚至从我自己在家庭中的经历来看，回到上一代，回到我的父母。
My parents both grew up in large families in Indian villages.
我的父母都在印度村庄的大家庭中长大。
As you might know, what was common in developing countries at that time was to pick one child to educate because most families didn’t have enough money to educate all of their kids.
如您所知，当时发展中国家的普遍现象是挑选一个孩子接受教育，因为大多数家庭没有足够的钱来教育所有的孩子。
And it so happened to be the case that my mom was the one chosen to get higher a education in her family, and my dad was chosen to get a higher education in his family.
碰巧我妈妈是她家被选中接受高等教育的人，我爸爸也是他家被选中接受高等教育的人。
I see through the generations the impact that that has had, not just on their outcomes — my mom’s a physician, my dad’s a statistician and an economist — but on the subsequent generation with myself and my cousins.
我看到这对几代人的影响，不仅对他们的结果——“我妈妈是一名医生，我爸爸是一名统计学家和经济学家”——而且对我和我的堂兄弟姐妹的下一代。
The opportunities I’ve had were dramatically shaped by those decisions many generations ago.
我所拥有的机会很大程度上是由几代人之前的决定决定的。
I’ve read online your grandfather was a close friend of Gandhi.
我在网上读到你的祖父是甘地的密友。
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
Yeah, that’s right.
是的，没错。
My grandfather, whom I’m named after — actually Nadarajan is my full name — was a freedom fighter alongside Mahatma Gandhi and had a lot of strong beliefs and principles that I share as well.
我的祖父，我以他的名字命名——“实际上，纳达拉詹是我的全名”——是一位与圣雄甘地并肩的自由斗士，他也有很多我所认同的坚定信念和原则。
For instance, the fact that my mom got an education was somewhat unusual at that time.
例如，我妈妈接受教育这一事实在当时就有些不寻常。
She was one of the first women to become a doctor in our community.
她是我们社区第一批成为医生的女性之一。
He believed very strongly in women’s education and equal rights, and so forth.
他非常相信妇女的教育和平等权利等等。
On early impressions of inequality, from Agra to Milwaukee
关于不平等的早期印象，从阿格拉到密尔沃基
And when you were eight or nine, you visited the Taj Mahal.
当你八九岁的时候，你参观了泰姬陵。
You had already moved to the US.
你已经搬到了美国。
Then you went back and you visited the Taj Mahal and this struck you in some way.
然后你回去参观了泰姬陵，这在某种程度上给你留下了深刻的印象。
How would you describe that experience?
您会如何描述那段经历？
Yes.
是的。
Seeing the Taj Mahal is a striking experience in its own right because the monument is so majestic.
参观泰姬陵本身就是一次令人惊叹的体验，因为这座纪念碑是如此雄伟。
But what struck me was the incredible contrast between the monument itself and what was outside.
但令我印象深刻的是纪念碑本身与外部之间令人难以置信的对比。
It was one of the most impoverished areas in India, in Agra.
阿格拉是印度最贫困的地区之一。
Just seeing that incredible contrast between the tourists and the people who were begging for food, basically outside from the tourists, left a mark on me.
光是看到游客和乞讨食物的人（基本上是在游客之外）之间令人难以置信的对比，就给我留下了深刻的印象。
I think back to that experience, wondering why things were so different on the inside versus the outside.
我回想起那次经历，想知道为什么内部和外部的情况如此不同。