Martina Navratilova on Shaping Herself (Ep. 37 - Live at Mason)
Thank you.
谢谢。
Martina, we are greatly honored to have you here today.
玛蒂娜，我们非常荣幸您今天来到这里。
Yes.
是的。
You have won Wimbledon nine times, I believe.
我相信你已经九次赢得温布尔登了。
Yep.
是的。
And more astonishing yet, there are, I believe, 80 different events where you have won both the singles and the doubles of the same event.
更令人惊讶的是，我相信有 80 个不同的赛事，您在同一赛事中同时赢得了单打和双打。
Yes.
是的。
Eighty-eight times.
八十八次。
They just gave a million-dollar bonus last week in Indian Wells if a player could win both singles and doubles.
上周在印第安维尔斯，如果一名球员能够同时赢得单打和双打，他们将颁发百万美元奖金。
They didn’t do that in my day, unfortunately.
不幸的是，在我那个时代他们并没有这样做。
On training and continuous self-improvement
关于培训和不断自我完善
If we were to take your achievements, and rather than framing them as sports achievements and athletic — which, of course, they were — but to think of them in terms of both education — self-education — and management, how would you describe the approach that took you, by the early ’80s, to really being a completely dominant player?
如果我们将你的成就视为体育成就和运动成就——当然，它们是——而是从教育——自我教育——和管理的角度来思考它们，那么你会如何描述在 80 年代初期让你真正成为一名完全占主导地位的球员的方法？
You were a contender, and then you became completely dominant, say, by 1981.
你是一个竞争者，然后你就完全占据了主导地位，比如说，到 1981 年。
How did you do that?
你是怎么做到的？
And what can you teach us about that process?
关于这个过程你能教给我们什么？
I didn’t graduate from high school, so I’m having a hard time understanding your question.
我高中没毕业，所以很难理解你的问题。
I’m just kidding.
我只是在开玩笑。
I left my country before I was able to graduate.
我在毕业之前就离开了自己的国家。
I think what happened was a seminal moment.
我认为发生的事情是一个具有开创性的时刻。
I was friends with Nancy Lieberman, who is a basketball player, Hall of Famer.
我和南希·利伯曼是朋友，她是一名篮球运动员，也是名人堂成员。
That spring, she traveled with me, and I had a bad spring.
那年春天，她陪我去旅行，我度过了一个糟糕的春天。
I lost the semifinals at the French Open.
我在法网半决赛中输掉了。
I lost the semifinals, both lead-up tournaments to Wimbledon and at Wimbledon.
我输掉了半决赛，无论是温布尔登的预选赛还是温布尔登的温布尔登。
I always said I would play until I’m 30 and then see.
我总是说我会打到30岁，然后再看情况。
She said, “You know, your time’s running out, and, and you could work a lot harder.” I’m like, “What are you talking about?” I thought I worked pretty hard, but I didn’t have a coach for six years after I defected.
她说：“你知道，你的时间已经不多了，而且你可以更加努力地工作。”我说：“你在说什么？”我以为我很努力，但我叛逃后六年没有教练。
My dad was my coach, and I didn’t have a coach.
我父亲是我的教练，而我没有教练。
I thought I worked hard enough, but then she introduced me to running suicides on the basketball court.
我以为我已经足够努力了，但后来她让我在篮球场上自杀。
Why did she register with you in a way earlier people hadn’t?
为什么她要以以前人们没有的方式向你注册？
Fellow athlete, very capable athlete.
运动员伙伴，非常有能力的运动员。
She just said, “You know, you’re wasting your talent.
她只是说：“你知道，你在浪费你的才能。
You have so much more talent than what you’re putting out there.” I didn’t know any better.
你的才华比你所展现的要多得多。”我不知道有什么更好的。
We started training that summer.
那年夏天我们开始训练。
Then I knew a guy who was also a nutritionist.
然后我认识了一个人，他也是一名营养师。
He helped me tailor my diet.
他帮助我调整饮食。
It wasn’t to lose weight, but just to better quality food coming in.
这并不是为了减肥，而是为了获得更优质的食物。
I weighed the same since about ’77, 147 pounds.
大约从 77 年开始，我的体重就一直是 147 磅。
I didn’t lose any weight, but I put on some muscle and lost some body fat and, most of all, got a coach.
我没有减轻任何体重，但我增加了一些肌肉并减少了一些身体脂肪，最重要的是，我找到了一位教练。
Dr. Renée Richards started coaching me.
蕾妮·理查兹博士开始指导我。
I was doing it on my own.
我是自己做的。
Everybody that lived here or other players, they would have a coach in their hometown.
每个住在这里的人或其他球员，他们的家乡都会有一位教练。
Chris Evert had her father.
克里斯·埃弗特有她的父亲。
Did not travel, but when she goes home, she would have a coach.
没有旅行，但是当她回家时，她会有教练。
I would go home and I was alone.
我会回家，只剩下我一个人。
In fact, just last week in Indian Wells, I saw a guy that I used to practice with every day when I was practicing in Dallas.
事实上，就在上周在印第安维尔斯，我看到了一个我在达拉斯训练时每天都和他一起训练的人。
I did not have a coach.
我没有教练。
It just didn’t occur to me get a full-time coach and Renée, just by accident, we started practicing together at the US Open.
我只是没有想到有一个全职教练和Renee，只是偶然，我们开始在美国公开赛一起练习。
Building the team.
建设团队。
It’s sometimes been called Team Navratilova.
它有时被称为纳芙拉蒂洛娃队。
Did you do this self-consciously .
你是自觉地这样做的吗？
.
。
.
。
Not at all.
一点也不。
.
。
.
。
.
。
or it’s just something that evolved, bit by bit?
或者它只是一点一点进化的？
Each piece seemed to work?
每一件作品似乎都有效？
Totally.
完全。
Then at the end, did you realize what you had done?
那么最后你意识到自己做了什么吗？
What was the process ex post of looking back and reconstructing?
事后回顾和重构的过程是怎样的？
I just wanted to leave no stone unturned, really.
我只是想不遗余力，真的。
The coach, obviously, was technique and tactics.
教练显然是技术和战术的结合者。
The physical part was training, working very hard.
身体部分是训练，非常努力。
I’ll give you my typical day in a minute.
我很快就会告诉你我典型的一天。
The eating was so that I could train hard and not get injured.
吃东西是为了让我可以努力训练而不受伤。
So it all came together.
所以这一切都结合在一起了。
The typical day, then, when I really was humming was four hours of tennis, 10:00 to 2:00, two hours of drills and maybe two hours of sets.
那么，典型的一天，当我真正享受乐趣时，就是四个小时的网球比赛，即 10:00 到 2:00，两个小时的训练，也许还有两个小时的训练。
Then I would do some running drills on the court for 15, 20 minutes, sprints that if I did them now, I wouldn’t be able to walk the next day.
然后我会在球场上做一些15、20分钟的跑步训练，如果我现在做的话，第二天我就无法走路了。
You know, 15- to 30-second sprinting drills.
你知道，15 到 30 秒的冲刺训练。
Then we would eat lunch.
然后我们就吃午饭。
Then I would go either play basketball full-court, two on two for an hour and a half or little man-big man.
然后我要么去打全场篮球，二对二打一个半小时，要么小个子打大个子。
It’s two on one.
这是二对一。
I don’t know, those people that play basketball.
我不知道，那些打篮球的人。
You just run.
你就跑吧。
You just run.
你就跑吧。
Which one were you?
你是哪一位？
It switches.
它会切换。
Whoever has the ball is the little man.
谁拿球就是小个子。
No, whoever has the ball, it’s one against two.
不，无论谁拿球，都是一对二。
Then you play little man, the person plays defense, and then the big man plays center.
然后你扮演小个子，这个人防守，然后大个子扮演中锋。
It’s not two on one, it’s one against one and then one.
这不是二对一，而是一对一，然后一对一。
Then whoever gets the ball goes the other way.
然后谁拿到球就往另一条路走。
It’s run, run, run.
就是跑，跑，跑。
Then I would lift weights and have dinner either before lifting weights or after.
然后我会举重，并在举重之前或之后吃晚饭。
So it was a full day of training.
就这样，这一天的训练就完成了。
What about 9:00 A.M.
上午 9:00 怎么样？
to 10:00 A.M.?
到上午 10:00？
That was breakfast.
那是早餐。
If I didn’t play basketball, we’d go on the track and run, some days, 10 100-meter sprints, or 20 60-yard sprints.
如果我不打篮球，我们就会去田径场跑步，有时会进行 10 次 100 米冲刺，或者 20 次 60 码冲刺。
I would do four quarters.
我会做四个季度。
That was my least favorite.
那是我最不喜欢的。
I trained hard.
我训练很刻苦。
I worked harder than I needed to, I think, but it worked.
我认为我比我需要的更加努力，但它确实有效。
You’ve done other things in life.
你在生活中做过其他事情。
You’ve been very interested in woodworking.
你对木工很感兴趣。
I’ve read that you learned Swahili.
我听说你学了斯瓦希里语。
A little bit.
一点点。
You have a pilot’s license.
您有飞行员执照。
I did.
我做到了。
You wrote three detective novels, played on a hockey team.
你写了三本侦探小说，并在曲棍球队打球。
You’re now having a role in raising two children.
您现在要承担抚养两个孩子的责任。
Have you used a training regime for all of those?
您是否对所有这些都使用过培训制度？
Do you now think about getting things done this way?
您现在考虑以这种方式完成事情吗？
The positive attitude helps.
积极的态度会有所帮助。
With tennis, you have to be very positive and have a very short memory.
对于网球来说，你必须非常积极并且记忆力很差。
NAVRATILOVA: Long memory for the good stuff and short memory for the bad stuff because you have to play a point.
NAVRATILOVA：好的事情记忆力长，坏的事情记忆力短，因为你必须打好一个点。
In 20 seconds, you’ve got to get ready for the next point.
20 秒后，你必须为下一个点做好准备。
You’ve got to analyze what happened and try to do it better, etc. But raising two kids is challenging.
你必须分析发生的事情并尝试做得更好等等。但是抚养两个孩子是具有挑战性的。
I’m going to say whatever training I’ve done is not enough.
我想说的是，我所做的任何训练都是不够的。
Billie Jean King once suggested that you use writing in a journal every day to help you accomplish your goals.
比莉·简·金曾经建议你每天写日记来帮助你实现目标。
How does that work for you?
这对你有什么作用？
What is it you do?
你是做什么的？
Why do you think it works?
你为什么认为它有效？
It worked because it really centers you.
它之所以有效，是因为它真正以你为中心。
It narrows it down, whatever long-term goal you have.
无论您有什么长期目标，它都会缩小范围。
It becomes more real and more current because it narrows it down in that, “What do you need to do today?” and “Did you accomplish that goal?” You have a big goal.
它变得更加真实和流行，因为它缩小了范围，“你今天需要做什么？”以及“你实现这个目标了吗？”你有一个远大的目标。
You break it into smaller goals, into smaller goals, until you get into, “OK, what do I do today to get to that goal?”
你把它分成一个又一个更小的目标，直到你陷入“好吧，我今天要做什么才能实现这个目标？”
You keep track.
你跟踪一下。
It’s easier to keep track.
更容易跟踪。
It’s always good to keep track, whether you’re playing points — keeping track that way — or just measure your progress or maybe regress some days.
跟踪总是好的，无论您是在玩积分 — 以这种方式跟踪 — 还是只是衡量自己的进度或可能在某些日子里出现倒退。
I would rate myself on a physical level, emotional, and mental — how I did today on a scale of 1 to 10.
我会从身体、情感和精神层面对自己进行评分——我今天的表现从 1 到 10 分。
Some days were 10s, some days were 7s, some days were 3s.
有些天是 10 秒，有些天是 7 秒，有些天是 3 秒。
Try to be honest with yourself.
尝试对自己诚实。
Be honest but also be nice to yourself.
诚实但也要善待自己。
You see that with most champions, they’re perfectionists.
你看，大多数冠军都是完美主义者。
You beat yourself up too much.
你太打击自己了。
I preach and I try to strive for excellence rather than perfection.
我宣扬并努力追求卓越而不是完美。
Try to be honest with yourself.
尝试对自己诚实。
Be honest but also be nice to yourself.
诚实但也要善待自己。
You see that with most champions, they’re perfectionists.
你看，大多数冠军都是完美主义者。
You beat yourself up too much.
你太打击自己了。
I preach and I try to strive for excellence rather than perfection.
我宣扬并努力追求卓越而不是完美。
If you strive for excellence, perfection may happen.
如果你追求卓越，完美可能会发生。
It’s good enough to be excellent.
足够优秀就足够了。
That’s good enough.
这就足够了。
You don’t need to be perfect because perfection just happens by accident.
你不需要完美，因为完美只是偶然发生的。
John McEnroe once reported that Björn Borg said that to him, I quote, “Number one is the only thing that matters.” That doesn’t seem to quite be your attitude.
约翰·麦肯罗曾经报道说，比约恩·博格对他说，“第一是唯一重要的事情。”这似乎不太符合你的态度。
How do you think of your motivation in terms of the goal?
您如何看待实现目标的动机？
I wanted to be number one.
我想成为第一。
I said that when I was 20 years old.
我20岁的时候就说过了。
I said since I was eight or nine years old, I wanted to win Wimbledon.
我说从八九岁起，我就想赢得温网冠军。
At that point, you don’t know how big the world is and what that all means, but that was the goal.
那时，你不知道世界有多大，也不知道这一切意味着什么，但这就是目标。
I just put it all out on the line.
我只是把一切都说出来了。
What was the question?
问题是什么？
I forgot where I was going .
我忘记了我要去哪里。
.
。
.
。
Björn Borg saying, “Number one is the only thing that matters.” He may have been exaggerating himself.
比约恩·博格 (Björn Borg) 说：“第一是唯一重要的事情。”他可能夸大了自己。
Do you ever feel you have that attitude that anything short of number one is a failure?
你是否曾经有过这样的态度：任何低于第一的事情都是失败的？
Not at all.
一点也不。
Not at all.
一点也不。
The only failure is to not try.
唯一的失败就是不去尝试。
For me, it was always giving my best, whatever it was that I was doing, whether it was riding the bicycle in my garden and trying to go as fast as I can and timing myself.
对我来说，无论我在做什么，无论是在花园里骑自行车，还是尝试尽可能快地行驶并为自己计时，它总是尽我所能。
My first watch was a stopwatch when I was in third grade.
当我三年级时，我的第一块手表是秒表。
I was always timing myself.
我总是给自己计时。
I would try to go faster.
我会尝试走得更快。
I would back up, do a little turn, so I could make the turn faster, so I could go faster three times around.
我会倒退，稍微转弯，这样我就可以转弯得更快，这样我就可以跑得更快三圈。
Competing with myself, my competition was always with myself.
与自己竞争，我的竞争始终是与自己竞争。
I always said I would rather play well and lose than play lousy and win because if I played lousy and won, that just meant my opponent was really lousy.
我总是说我宁愿打得好却输，也不愿打得糟糕却赢，因为如果我打得不好却赢了，那就意味着我的对手真的很糟糕。
I’d rather be pushed.
我宁愿被推。
That’s why I really enjoyed the competition against the best players because that’s when you have to put it on the line and play your best.
这就是为什么我真的很喜欢与最好的球员竞争，因为那是你必须冒险并发挥出最好水平的时候。
Anything less won’t be good enough.
少了任何东西都不够好。
The number one kind of happened.
第一件事发生了。
That’s another line that I use.
这是我使用的另一条线。
Everybody has that goal.
每个人都有这个目标。
Most players that play on the tour, they want to be number one.
大多数参加巡回赛的球员都想成为第一。
They want to win a major, but only one person can be number one.
他们想要赢得一场大满贯，但只有一个人可以成为第一。
Does that make everybody else a failure?
这会让其他人都失败吗？
No. They’re trying their hardest.
不，他们正在尽最大努力。
If you try your best and the best that you can do, which we have the ranking.
如果你尽力而为，你能做到最好，我们就有排名。
Obviously, it doesn’t lie.
显然，它没有说谎。
This is exactly where you stand.
这正是你所站的地方。
You could be 45 in the world or 5 in the world.
您可能已经 45 岁了，也可能已经 5 岁了。
If you tried your best and your best ranking ever was number 10, then the other nine players were better.
如果你尽力而为，并且你的最好成绩是第十名，那么其他九名选手会更好。
But if the other nine people weren’t alive, you’d be number one.
但如果其他九个人都没有活着，你就是第一。
You’re still the same tennis player, right?
你还是原来的网球运动员，对吗？
You’re not any better.
你也好不到哪去。
So for me, the competition was always with myself.
所以对我来说，竞争始终是我自己。
Pam Shriver once said that she thought her doubles partnership with you worked so well precisely because the two of you had this creative interchange, but you didn’t spend much time together off the court.
帕姆·施莱弗曾经说过，她认为与你们的双打合作非常顺利，正是因为你们两个进行了这种创造性的交流，但你们在场外并没有花太多时间在一起。
You saved that back-and-forth for when you were playing together.
你把这种来回的事情留到了一起玩的时候。
Does that make sense to you?
这对你来说有意义吗？
We talked a lot, yes.
我们聊了很多，是的。
We had to catch up on everything while we were playing the matches.
当我们打比赛的时候，我们必须赶上一切。
Nowadays, they all talk strategy.
现在都讲战略。
We’d do like, “OK, I serve wide, but what do you want to do for dinner?” or “Where did you go last night?” and “Where is your coach sitting?” We were visiting.
我们会说，“好吧，我服务范围很广，但是你晚餐想做什么？”或“你昨晚去哪儿了？”和“你的教练坐在哪里？”我们正在参观。
“Can you believe that guy over there?
“你能相信那边那个人吗？
You know, he’s not even watching us.” We were just talking smack, and we had fun.
你知道，他甚至没有看我们。”我们只是说说笑笑，玩得很开心。
On the particulars of tennis
关于网球的细节
A few questions about women’s tennis in particular.
特别是关于女子网球的一些问题。
If you think about Steffi Graf, Sabatini, Monica Seles, Hingis, yourself, do women in tennis develop more quickly in terms of age?
如果你想想施特菲·格拉夫、萨巴蒂尼、莫妮卡·塞莱斯、辛吉斯以及你自己，网球界的女性在年龄方面发展得更快吗？
If so, why is that the case?
如果是这样，为什么会这样呢？
Physically, yeah, women mature earlier, I think, emotionally and physically, but most of all physically.
在身体上，是的，我认为女性在情感和身体上成熟得更早，但最重要的是身体上。
Nowadays, the game has gotten so much more physical it’s a little more tricky for people to play really great tennis at 14 or 15.
如今，这项运动变得越来越需要身体对抗，对于 14 岁或 15 岁的人来说，要打出真正精彩的网球有点困难。
In the women’s game, we instituted an age eligibility rule, so you cannot play as many tournaments as you want until you’re 18.
在女子比赛中，我们制定了年龄资格规则，因此在 18 岁之前，您不能随心所欲地参加比赛。
There is a limit to how many tournaments you can play at 14, at 15, etc. It goes up.
14 岁、15 岁等年龄时可以参加的锦标赛数量有限制。数量会增加。
The biggest reason for that was we had too many injuries and too many people getting burned out because the parents had these big eyes for their kids.
最大的原因是我们有太多的伤病，太多的人因为父母对孩子的关注而精疲力尽。
They’re pulling kids out of school too soon, and doing training and burning out physically or emotionally before they even get on the tour.
他们过早地让孩子们退学，甚至在他们参加巡演之前就进行训练，在身体或情感上精疲力竭。
Or, if they get on the tour, then the injuries come.
或者，如果他们参加巡回赛，那么伤病就会随之而来。
We had too many people pulling out.
我们撤退的人太多了。
I think some of it is also they don’t make them like they used to.
我认为部分原因是他们不再像以前那样制作它们。
In the old days, seriously, I would come to a tournament and somebody would default.
说实话，在过去，我会参加一场锦标赛，但有人会违约。
I’m like, “Oh, my God.
我想，“哦，天哪。
Is she OK?
她还好吗？
Is she in the hospital?” It was unusual for people to pull out.
她在医院吗？”人们撤离是不寻常的。
I think Chris pulled out of three events, ever.
我认为克里斯退出了三场比赛。
Same with me, three tournaments that I pulled out of.
和我一样，我退出了三场比赛。
And you played a lot.
而且你玩了很多。
I played a lot of tournaments and a lot of matches.
我参加了很多锦标赛和比赛。
I don’t know how many singles I won, but I think I played something like 1,700 singles matches and, I don’t know, 1,100 doubles matches.
我不知道我赢了多少单打比赛，但我想我打了大概 1,700 场单打比赛，还有 1,100 场双打比赛，我不知道。
What accounts for that change?
造成这种变化的原因是什么？
Why are we moderns weaker, more complacent?
为什么我们现代人变得更软弱、更自满？
However you might describe it, what’s happened to us?
不管你如何描述，我们到底发生了什么？
Things are easier, there is no doubt.
毫无疑问，事情变得更容易了。
But also they’re lasting longer because things are easier.
但它们也能持续更长时间，因为事情变得更容易了。
You have trainers now.
你现在有教练了。
When I came on the tour, I pulled a stomach muscle the very first tournament I played.
当我参加巡回赛时，我参加的第一场比赛就拉伤了胃部肌肉。
It took two months before I got well again.
花了两个月的时间我才再次康复。
We got a trainer for the first time on the tour, 1975.
1975 年，我们在巡演中首次配备了教练。
I thought, “Oh, you get a massage.” No, no, no, this is a trainer.
我想：“哦，你去按摩一下吧。”不不不，这是教练。
They actually tape your ankles and stuff.
他们实际上会用胶带绑住你的脚踝之类的东西。
We were really clueless.
我们真的一无所知。
We didn’t know.
我们不知道。
Nowadays, the care is much better, and the players last longer because of that.
如今，照顾得更好了，球员的寿命也因此更长。
We played on clay or grass, indoors on soft carpet, with wooden rackets, with animal gut for the strings.
我们在粘土或草地上打球，在室内柔软的地毯上，用木球拍，用动物肠线做弦。
Now, they play on hard courts most of the time, with metal rackets, with nylon strings.
现在，他们大部分时间都在硬地球场上比赛，使用金属球拍和尼龙线。
So the body does not absorb that vibration from the racket.
因此身体不会吸收球拍的振动。
They use their wrists a lot more, so you have a lot more injuries on the upper body.
他们更多地使用手腕，因此上半身受伤的情况也更多。
Playing on hard courts, you see them slide.
在硬地球场上打球，你会看到它们滑动。
I’m like, “I still don’t know how they do that.” Sliding on hard courts, it’s like, “Ohhh.” There’ll be a lot more hip replacements in the future because of that.
我想，“我还是不知道他们是怎么做到的。”在硬地球场上滑行时，感觉就像是“哦哦”。因此，未来将会有更多的髋关节置换手术。
I think the game is more physical, so they get more beat up.
我认为比赛更加需要身体对抗，所以他们会受到更多的打击。
Everybody’s hitting the ball harder because of the rackets, etc.
由于球拍等原因，每个人都更加努力地击球。
Some sports, it seems fairly easy to compare the past and the present.
有些运动，似乎很容易比较过去和现在。
The 100-meter dash, how long did it take?
100米短跑，用了多长时间？
There’s a very definite timing.
有一个非常明确的时间。
If you’re thinking about tennis players, the best of today, the best of an earlier age — Althea Gibson or Evonne Goolagong, whoever it is you have in mind — do you think it’s even a meaningful comparison?
如果你正在考虑网球运动员，今天最好的，早期最好的 —— Althea Gibson 或 Evonne Goolagong，无论你想到的是谁 —— 你认为这是一个有意义的比较吗？
Or do you have some definite view, like, “We were better than they’ll ever be.” Or “They would take every set from us.” How do you think about that problem?
或者你有一些明确的观点，比如“我们比他们更好。”或者“他们会夺走我们的每一套。”您如何看待这个问题？
Me from 1990 would have beaten me from 1980, would have beaten me from 1973.
1990年的我会打败1980年的我，也会打败1973年的我。
You get better as you play.
当你玩的时候你会变得更好。
I would have beaten Althea Gibson.
我会打败阿尔西娅·吉布森。
But if I had been born in Althea’s Gibson’s time and Althea Gibson was born 20 years later, she would be beating me because it’s the evolution of the sport.
但如果我出生在 Althea Gibson 的时代，而 Althea Gibson 出生在 20 年后，她就会打败我，因为这是这项运动的演变。
Nowadays, especially with the rackets being so different, you can’t really compare.
如今，尤其是球拍差异如此之大，你无法真正进行比较。
But if Evonne Goolagong was born now, she would still be winning majors.
但如果埃文·古拉贡现在出生，她仍然会赢得大满贯赛。
The same with the guys, you’re a product of your culture and of your time.
和其他人一样，你是你的文化和时代的产物。
If Usain Bolt was born in 1930, I’m pretty sure he would not be running 9.2, whatever he’s running, 100 meters.
如果尤塞恩·博尔特出生于 1930 年，我很确定他不会跑 9.2，无论他跑什么，100 米。
It just wasn’t going to happen with those shoes, on those tracks.
穿着那些鞋子，在那些赛道上，这种情况是不会发生的。
It’s a different ballgame.
这是一场不同的比赛。
If you think about how men and women are divided in tennis, the current arrangement has a lot of advantages.
如果你想想网球运动中男女是如何划分的，现在的安排有很多优点。
It could be the case — I’m no expert in this area — that there are more than two genders.
情况可能是 ——“我不是这方面的专家”—— 存在两种以上的性别。
In track and field, you have Caster Semenya, where people argue, “Should she be allowed to compete in women’s track and field?”
在田径方面，有卡斯特·塞门亚（Caster Semenya），人们争论道：“应该允许她参加女子田径比赛吗？”
There’s a lot of measurement that goes on.
有很多测量正在进行。
Arguably, it’s somewhat intrusive .
可以说，这有点侵入性。
.
。
.
。
You think?
您认为？
.
。
.
。
.
。
or just distasteful.
或者只是令人厌恶。
How should we think about this problem and structure the rules going forward to have the best available arrangement?
我们应该如何思考这个问题并构建未来的规则以获得最佳的可用安排？
You just try to take it case by case and make it as fair as possible for everybody involved.
你只需尝试根据具体情况进行处理，并使其对每个相关人员尽可能公平。
I’m not a doctor, so it’s hard to pin that one.
我不是医生，所以很难确定这一点。
You just try to make it fair.
你只是努力让它公平。
There is not any particular rule.
没有任何特定的规则。
If you go by that, then some guy may have a lot more testosterone than another guy.
如果你按照这个说法，那么有些人可能比另一个人有更多的睾丸激素。
Is he banned because he has too much?
是不是因为他的东西太多了，所以被禁了？
Where do you put the limits?
你把限制放在哪里？
Who decides where the limits are?
谁来决定界限在哪里？
You just take it case by case and try to make it a level playing field.
你只需根据具体情况进行处理，并努力使其成为一个公平的竞争环境。
With me, they were saying I have an advantage because I’m gay.
对于我来说，他们说我有优势，因为我是同性恋。
Somehow, a gay player hits the ball better than a straight player.
不知何故，同性恋球员比异性恋球员击球更好。
I don’t know.
我不知道。
Still trying to figure that one out.
仍在努力弄清楚这一点。
On the gender pay gap in tournaments
论锦标赛中的性别薪酬差距
Issues of pay equity.
薪酬公平问题。
As you know, Australian, US, French opens, Wimbledon, Indian Wells, Miami — male and female prizes are the same at the top.
如你所知，澳大利亚公开赛、美国公开赛、法国公开赛、温布尔登公开赛、印第安维尔斯公开赛、迈阿密公开赛——男女排名最高的奖项是相同的。
But many other tournaments, male winners tend to receive quite a bit more than female winners.
但在许多其他比赛中，男性获胜者获得的奖金往往比女性获胜者多得多。
Is this, in your view, fair?
您认为这公平吗？
Should it be changed?
是否应该改变？
If so, how should we change it?
如果是这样，我们应该如何改变呢？
We are changing it a little bit at a time.
我们一次一点点地改变它。
Still, those tournaments are separate.
不过，这些锦标赛是分开的。
The men still — most corporations are run by men, owned by men.
男人仍然是——大多数公司都是由男人经营、由男人拥有。
They’re much more likely to give the money to the men than the women.
与女性相比，他们更有可能把钱给男性。
Whether it’s a bank or whatever the sponsor is, men have a much easier time getting the sponsorship money and don’t have to prove it.
无论是银行还是赞助商，男性都更容易获得赞助资金，而且无需证明。
The women have to prove themselves, which is why most of the sponsors that have been involved in women’s tennis have stayed around a lot longer because we have to make sure that the money is judged correctly, that economically it makes sense.
女性必须证明自己，这就是为什么大多数参与女子网球的赞助商都坚持了更长时间，因为我们必须确保这笔钱的判断是正确的，从经济上来说是有意义的。
How many false starts were there for the NFL, NBA, all of that?
NFL、NBA 等球队有多少次失败的开局？
You have one false start in the women’s league, and it’s, “Oh, the women can’t make it.” But the guys, they keep throwing money at them.
在女子联赛中，你有一个错误的开始，那就是，“哦，女子队无法做到这一点。”但是这些家伙，他们不断地向他们扔钱。
It is still in different cultures.
它仍然存在于不同的文化中。
We still have tournaments in places where women can’t walk without a male escort.
我们仍然在女性无法在没有男性护送的情况下行走的地方举办比赛。
Times have changed, but not enough.
时代变了，但还不够。
It’s certainly going in the right direction, but the pay inequity is still there.
这肯定是在朝着正确的方向发展，但薪酬不平等仍然存在。
Male and female tennis announcers, should they be paid the same?
男性和女性网球播音员的报酬应该相同吗？
I’m trending on Twitter today.
我今天在推特上很流行。
My, “Yes!” claim to fame.
我的，“是的！”要求成名。
You try to pay people equal amount for equal work, equal contribution, and equal level of expertise, and whatever championship quality you want to assign to that.
你尝试为同工同酬、同等贡献、同等专业水平以及你想要赋予的任何冠军品质的人们支付同等的报酬。
There’s this hoo-ha right now about me getting a lot less pay for the same work as John McEnroe at Wimbledon.
现在人们对我在温布尔登做同样的工作而得到比约翰·麦肯罗少得多的薪水感到兴奋。
The BBC is a publicly owned corporation, but they would not divulge what people are making.
BBC 是一家公有公司，但他们不会透露人们的收入。
Finally, they had to last year say how much people are making.
最后，他们不得不透露去年人们赚了多少钱。
Only people that are making £150,000 a year or more, anybody less than that, you don’t have to divulge.
只有那些年收入 15 万英镑或以上的人，或者低于这个数字的人，你才不必透露。
A lot of the part-time people did not make the cut, but John McEnroe did make the cut.
很多兼职人员都没有晋级，但约翰·麦肯罗确实晋级了。
He gets at least £150,000 for Wimbledon, while I was getting paid about £12,000, £13,000 for less work — less work, yes — but about maybe one third.
他在温布尔登至少得到 15 万英镑，而我的工资约为 12,000 英镑，少工作 13,000 英镑——“少工作，是的”——但大约只有三分之一。
It’s because I couldn’t get any more.
这是因为我无法再得到更多。
I wanted to work more, but we were getting all kinds of excuses why I couldn’t get more, or other women weren’t getting paid as much as the men.
我想工作更多，但我们得到了各种各样的借口，为什么我不能得到更多，或者其他女性没有得到与男性一样多的报酬。
I knew I was getting paid less, but I didn’t know how much less.
我知道我的工资少了，但我不知道少了多少。
Then when I found out, when this report was made public, it was like OK, now this is not just percentage.
然后当我发现，当这份报告被公开时，就好像好吧，现在这不仅仅是百分比了。
This is a multiplier.
这是一个乘数。
There was a program that just went out tonight actually.
实际上今晚刚刚播出了一个节目。
It’s kind of the 60 Minutes in the UK, called Panorama.
这有点像英国的 60 分钟节目，叫做 Panorama。
I did an interview there, so now there’s a big to-do about it.
我在那里接受了采访，所以现在有一件大事要做。
It’s not between me and McEnroe.
这不是我和麦肯罗之间的事。
It’s not about that.
不是这个问题。
It’s about women getting paid a lot less than men for a similar job.
这是因为从事类似工作的女性的工资比男性低得多。
Maybe it’s because you get paid by the work.
也许是因为你通过工作获得报酬。
I’m trying to keep my answers really succinct.
我试图让我的答案非常简洁。
Just saying.
只是说。
Here’s something Billie Jean King once said.
这是比利·简·金曾经说过的话。
I’m not sure, but I think she was referring to both men’s and women’s tennis.
我不确定，但我认为她指的是男子和女子网球。
Quote: “I think tennis is a sexy sport, and that is good.
引用：“我认为网球是一项性感的运动，这很好。
The players are young, with excellent bodies, clothed in relatively little.
球员们都很年轻，身体素质极佳，但穿的衣服相对较少。
It offers the healthiest, most appealing presentation of sex I can imagine, and we in sport must acknowledge that and use it to our advantage.” True or false?
它提供了我能想象到的最健康、最吸引人的性表现，我们体育界必须承认这一点，并利用它来发挥我们的优势。”是真是假？
She said that?
她这么说？
It’s in print.
它已印刷。
It doesn’t sound like Billie.
听起来不像比利。
I’d never heard her say that.
我从来没有听她这么说过。
It is a sexy sport, but I don’t think it’s because of the way we dress.
这是一项性感的运动，但我不认为这是因为我们的着装方式。
It’s just because we’re really capable of hitting the tennis ball and doing things on the court that most people can’t.
只是因为我们确实有能力击球并在球场上做大多数人做不到的事情。
And it’s a cognitive endeavor, most of all.
最重要的是，这是一种认知努力。
It also makes sense to play tennis in shorts or shorter skirts rather than what Suzanne Lenglen used to have to put up with, with long dresses, etc. I think the form follows function, on the tennis court anyway.
穿着短裤或短裙打网球也很有意义，而不是像苏珊·朗格伦（Suzanne Lenglen）过去必须忍受的那样，穿长裙等。我认为形式追随功能，无论如何在网球场上都是如此。
There’s nothing wrong with being sexy as long as it’s not sexist.
只要不存在性别歧视，性感就没有什么问题。
Guys get paid more if they’re good looking.
如果男人长得好看，他们的薪水就会更高。
They get more endorsements.
他们得到了更多的认可。
Women, same thing, but then it becomes too disparate.
女人也是如此，但随后就变得太不同了。
That’s when it becomes a problem, when you have to be sexy in order to be paid the same.
当你必须性感才能得到同样的报酬时，这就会成为一个问题。
Ah, the guy doesn’t have to be sexy, right?
啊，这个家伙不一定要性感，对吧？
Look at the TV people.
看看电视里的人。
On gender stereotypes and tennis critiques
关于性别刻板印象和网球批评
Here’s a question from a reader, and I quote, “In her autobiography, Martina observed that US women, such as Chris Evert, had to conform to far more rigid gender stereotypes than Czech women like she did.
这是一位读者提出的问题，我引用一下：“玛蒂娜在她的自传中指出，克里斯·埃弗特等美国女性必须遵守比她这样的捷克女性严格得多的性别刻板印象。
Does Martina still believe that US gender stereotypes are a lot more constricting and universally imposed in America today than in, say, Central Europe?”
玛蒂娜是否仍然认为美国的性别刻板印象在今天的美国比在中欧等地更加严格和普遍强加？”
That’s a good question, but I said that a long time ago.
这是个好问题，但我很久以前就说过了。
That biography came out 30 years ago.
那本传记出版于 30 年前。
I really don’t remember what all I said.
我真的不记得我说了什么。
Once in a while I sign it, and I look inside.
偶尔我会在上面签名，然后看看里面。
I’m like, “Oh my God.
我想，“天啊。
I can’t believe I said that.
我不敢相信我这么说了。
This is way too personal.”
这太个人化了。”
The one thing growing up in a Communist country, perhaps the only good thing about it, was that it was OK to be a female athlete, or anything, really.
在共产主义国家长大的一件事，也许是唯一的好处，就是成为一名女运动员或其他什么都可以，真的。
There were women doctors, professors, very common.
女医生、女教授很常见。
Not in the political scene — there was always guys, for some reason.
不是在政治舞台上——“出于某种原因，总是有男人。”
But every other field, women were just as encouraged to go into that field as men.
但在其他领域，女性和男性一样被鼓励进入该领域。
The one thing growing up in a Communist country, perhaps the only good thing about it, was that it was OK to be a female athlete, or anything, really.
在共产主义国家长大的一件事，也许是唯一的好处，就是成为一名女运动员或其他什么都可以，真的。
There were women doctors, professors, very common.
女医生、女教授很常见。
Not in the political scene — there was always guys, for some reason.
不是在政治舞台上——“出于某种原因，总是有男人。”
But every other field, women were just as encouraged to go into that field as men.
但在其他领域，女性和男性一样被鼓励进入该领域。
There was no “Oh, you want to be an electrician?
没有“哦，你想成为一名电工吗？
You have to be a man.” No, or a professor, whatever.
你必须是个男人。”不，或者教授，无论如何。
It all worked.
这一切都奏效了。
When somebody said doctor, you didn’t assume it was a man.
当有人说医生时，你不会认为这是一个男人。
Whereas it was an assumption here, I still make that mistake myself.
虽然这是一个假设，但我自己仍然犯这个错误。
Being an athlete, I was encouraged to be an athlete, and to do to the best.
作为一名运动员，我被鼓励成为一名运动员，并做到最好。
It wasn’t like I had to be begging to be able to play tennis because it’s only for boys.
我不需要乞求才能打网球，因为网球只适合男孩。
Same with the clothing — maybe we were weren’t dressing so sexy because there just wasn’t anything sexy to be bought there.
服装也一样——也许我们穿得不那么性感，因为那里没有任何性感的东西可买。
You just went to the store and see what was available.
您刚刚去了商店，看看有什么商品。
I think Chris was just conforming, not because of any preconceived ideas, but she came from a good Catholic family, and she wanted to please her parents.
我认为克里斯只是顺从，并不是因为任何先入为主的想法，而是她来自一个良好的天主教家庭，她想取悦她的父母。
So it was more that than, I think, any American culture.
所以我认为它比任何美国文化都更重要。
It was actually more cultural within the family how you grew up.
实际上，你的成长方式更多地取决于家庭内部的文化。
At the top level, why has US men’s tennis collapsed?
在顶级层面，美国男网为何崩溃了？
I don’t think it’s collapsed.
我不认为它已经崩溃了。
I think we have 10 .
我想我们有 10 个。
.
。
.
。
But the last Grand Slam winner, who is it?
但最后一位大满贯得主，是谁呢？
Is it Andy Roddick?
是安迪·罗迪克吗？
I don’t remember .
我不记得了。
.
。
.
。
a long time ago now.
很久以前了。
I think it’s Andy.
我认为是安迪。
We’ve had a few in the finals, but right now, those new guys coming up — Reilly Opelka, who is like 6 foot 10, he is huge, and a huge serve, and a good, big talent.
我们已经有几个进入决赛了，但是现在，那些新人上来了 ——Reilly Opelka，他身高6英尺10英寸，他身材高大，发球能力很强，而且才华横溢。
Taylor Fritz had a good tournament last week in Indian Wells.
泰勒·弗里茨 (Taylor Fritz) 上周在印第安维尔斯 (Indian Wells) 打出了一场精彩的比赛。
I actually used to play against his mother, Kathy May.
事实上，我曾经和他的母亲凯西·梅（Kathy May）比赛。
Jack Sock, he made the Masters.
杰克·索克，他赢得了大师赛。
On a given day, they can beat anybody, but to win a major, that takes a lot.
在某一天，他们可以击败任何人，但要赢得大满贯，这需要付出很多努力。
It always goes in ebbs and flows and fluctuations.
它总是有潮起潮落和波动。
The biggest thing is that the rest of the world caught up.
最重要的是世界其他地区也赶上了。
It’s not that we’re bad, it’s the rest of the world is better.
并不是我们不好，而是世界其他地方更好。
It’s a lot more international.
它更加国际化。
Tennis is a lot more global.
网球更加全球化。
The tennis ball doesn’t know where you’re from, does it?
网球不知道你来自哪里，不是吗？
On technological progress in tennis
论网球技术进步
The NBA, the NFL, and Major League Baseball, they’ve all been revolutionized by analytics and statistics, but tennis so far, not that much as far as I can tell.
NBA、NFL 和美国职业棒球大联盟，它们都因分析和统计而发生了革命性的变化，但据我所知，到目前为止，网球还没有发生太大变化。
You may know better.
你可能更了解。
Is this coming to tennis?
这是网球比赛吗？
And if so, what kind of effect is it likely to have?
如果是这样，可能会产生什么样的影响？
It’s there now.
现在就在那里。
The knowledge is there.
知识就在那里。
People are figuring out how to use it to their advantage.
人们正在研究如何利用它来发挥自己的优势。
They have all kinds of statistics now.
他们现在有各种各样的统计数据。
With the Hawk-Eye, when you play matches, they even have cameras on practice courts.
有了鹰眼，当你参加比赛时，他们甚至在练习场上安装了摄像机。
You can measure how many revolutions per shot, where it landed, how many mistakes you made.
您可以测量每次射击的转数、落地位置以及犯了多少错误。
It can get too much, but you can certainly use it to your advantage to see where the weaknesses are.
它可能会变得太多，但你当然可以利用它来发挥自己的优势，看看弱点在哪里。
It’s very obvious where the strengths are with the opponents, etc. It would help in making game plans and all that.
对手的优势在哪里等是非常明显的。这将有助于制定比赛计划等等。
You can analyze all you want, but ultimately, you just got to hit the damn ball and hit it well.
你可以分析你想要的一切，但最终，你必须击出该死的球，并且击得好。
Are the rules of tennis flawed in some way?
网球规则是否存在某种缺陷？
Are games too long or competitions too long or too short?
比赛是否太长或比赛太长或太短？
Is there too much or too little regulation of string and racket technology?
对线和球拍技术的监管是否太多或太少？
Would you change the scoring system?
你会改变评分系统吗？
Can you improve on what we have?
你能改进我们现有的吗？
That’s a lot of questions.
这是很多问题。
Other than the pay.
除了工资之外。
One question at a time, please.
请一次提出一个问题。
Regulations, absolutely, the rackets have taken over the sport, and the strings.
毫无疑问，规则已经接管了这项运动，还有球线。
The strings, when you put them on a microscope, they have these little teeth.
当你把弦放在显微镜下时，它们有这些小牙齿。
They bite the balls so you can put a lot more spin on the ball, which makes it a lot easier to hit it.
它们咬住球，这样你就可以给球带来更多旋转，从而更容易击球。
The rackets, the sweet spot used to be about this big .
球拍，最佳击球点曾经大约有这么大。
Now it’s this big .
现在都这么大了。
As long as you don’t hit the frame, you’re good to go, so it’s very forgiving.
只要你不撞到框架，你就可以继续前进，所以它非常宽容。
Everybody hits a much better ball, and it’s more difficult to come to the net because it’s easier to dip the ball with the spin, etc.
每个人都能打出更好的球，而且更难到达网前，因为通过旋转更容易将球浸入球网，等等。
The racket manufacturers have really changed the sport too much in my mind.
在我看来，球拍制造商确实给这项运动带来了太多改变。
You don’t see as much variety because of the equipment really favoring the baselines, the ground strokes over volleys.
你看不到那么多的变化，因为这些设备确实有利于底线、地面击球而不是截击。
Top players today, they don’t have to be as smart as in your time?
今天的顶尖球员，不一定要像你们那个时代那么聪明？
I don’t know.
我不知道。
I haven’t measured their IQ.
我没有测量过他们的智商。
It sounds like more strength oriented and less cognitive.
听起来更注重力量，更少认知。
Yes, it is.
是的。
It can be.
可以的。
You can get by with lower tennis IQ.
即使你的网球智商较低，你也可以过得去。
If you can power past people, you don’t have to hit around them, you go through them.
如果你能超越别人，你就不必绕过他们，而是穿过他们。
The rackets are more forgiving.
球拍更宽容。
It’s like having much more horsepower.
这就像拥有更多的马力。
You just step on the gas, and off you go.
您只需踩下油门，然后就可以出发了。
Technique is not as prevalent, and tactics, although now you find different parts of the court because of the strings, also because of the rackets, which makes it different.
技术并不那么普遍，而战术，尽管现在你会因为弦、也因为球拍而发现球场的不同部分，这使得它有所不同。
It’s just different.
只是不同而已。
It’s not necessarily better or worse, but less variety, and that’s what I’m missing.
它不一定是更好或更差，但多样性较少，而这正是我所缺少的。
Mixed doubles also seems less popular, right?
混双似乎也不太受欢迎，对吧？
Is that another example of declining interest in IQ?
这是人们对智商兴趣下降的另一个例子吗？
There is so much more money in singles and so much interest in singles.
单身人士有更多的钱，而且人们对单身人士的兴趣也很大。
Fewer players play singles and doubles.
打单打和双打的球员越来越少。
Also, because you win one major and your life is made.
另外，因为你赢得了一项大满贯赛，你的人生就被创造了。
So you don’t concentrate so much on .
所以你不会太专注于。
.
。
.
。
You don’t want to make anything hamper that possibility, so people play less.
你不想让任何事情阻碍这种可能性，所以人们玩得更少。
I played singles, doubles, and mixed a whole bunch of times.
我打过很多次单打、双打和混打。
In fact, I probably played too much in my 30s.
其实我30多岁的时候可能玩的太多了。
I should have played less, but I didn’t know any better, and I liked playing mixed.
我应该少玩一点，但我不知道更好，而且我喜欢混合玩。
Maybe that’s one of my other big accomplishments.
也许这是我的其他重大成就之一。
I won the triple at the US Open when I was 31.
31 岁时，我在美国公开赛上赢得了三冠王。
I won singles, doubles, and mixed.
我赢得了单打、双打和混合比赛的冠军。
One year at Wimbledon, in ’86, it rained so much that I only played two matches in the first week because it rained.
86年的温布尔登有一年，雨很大，所以我在第一周只打了两场比赛，因为下雨。
Two singles, and then I played 17 matches the second week because I got to the finals of all three.
两场单打，然后第二周我打了 17 场比赛，因为我进入了全部三场比赛的决赛。
I played two or three matches every single day.
我每天打两到三场比赛。
Then the last one, we lost the doubles.
然后最后一场，我们输掉了双打。
Pam and I lost the doubles.
帕姆和我输掉了双打。
We hadn’t lost a match in two years.
我们已经两年没有输过一场比赛了。
We lost the final.
我们输掉了决赛。
I won the singles.
我赢了单打。
Then Sunday, after winning the singles and losing doubles final, I played three.
然后周日，在赢得单打冠军并输掉双打决赛后，我打了三场比赛。
We were in the quarterfinals on the mixed doubles on Sunday.
周日我们进入了混双四分之一决赛。
I was on the court for six hours because there was no tie break in the third set.
我在场上呆了六个小时，因为第三盘没有抢七。
I won the first match in three sets.
我在三盘比赛中赢得了第一场比赛。
Then we played again semifinals in three sets.
然后我们又打了三盘半决赛。
I think it was 23–21 in the third.
我认为第三节的比分是23-21。
Then the final was three sets as well.
然后决赛也是三盘。
So yeah, I was tired that day.
所以是的，那天我很累。
That’s why people don’t play — because it takes too much energy.
这就是为什么人们不玩——因为它需要太多的精力。
The game is more physical, and they don’t want to hamper anything.
比赛更加注重身体对抗，他们不想妨碍任何事情。
But I like playing tennis so much that I couldn’t see not playing doubles.
但我非常喜欢打网球，所以我不能不打双打。
If somehow tennis didn’t exist or you couldn’t have been a tennis player, but ended up in this country at a young enough age, what do you think would have been your career?
如果不知何故网球不存在，或者你不可能成为一名网球运动员，但在足够年轻的时候就来到了这个国家，你认为你的职业生涯会是什么？
If sports or .
如果运动或。
.
。
.
。
Anything else but tennis.
除了网球，还有别的事。
I don’t know, anything but tennis .
我不知道，除了网球。
.
。
.
。
It can be hockey.
它可以是曲棍球。
It can be woodworking.
可以是木工。
I play hockey.
我打曲棍球。
Woodworking?
木工？
No, I don’t think that would have made that much money.
不，我认为那不会赚那么多钱。
I did woodworking.
我是做木工的。
I still have 10 fingers.
我还有10根手指。
I did pretty well, made a couple of tables.
我做得很好，做了几张桌子。
I wanted to be an architect or a builder.
我想成为一名建筑师或建筑商。
I think that’s why I got into woodworking.
我想这就是我进入木工行业的原因。
I wanted to create.
我想创造。
If it was a sport, either a skier or a race-car driver.
如果这是一项运动，要么是滑雪者，要么是赛车手。
I like speed.
我喜欢速度。
If you look back on your whole career, your whole life, what question do you most frequently ask yourself that you would be willing to share with us?
如果您回顾您的整个职业生涯、您的一生，您最常问自己并且愿意与我们分享的问题是什么？
I’ve been married now for three years, been with Julia almost 10 years.
我现在已经结婚三年了，和朱莉娅在一起也快十年了。
Her two daughters are 16 and 12.
她的两个女儿分别是 16 岁和 12 岁。
The question I ask myself most often these days is what can I say to them so that they will actually put the dishes in the dishwasher rather than just leave them in the sink?
这些天我最常问自己的问题是我能对他们说些什么，以便他们真正将盘子放入洗碗机中而不是仅仅将它们留在水槽中？
I have not solved that riddle.
我还没有解开这个谜语。
I don’t know.
我不知道。
Take away the iPhone?
拿走iPhone？
No, that doesn’t work.
不，那不行。
Driving privileges?
驾驶特权？
No, I don’t know.
不，我不知道。
I’ve run out.
我已经用完了。
Being nice?
表现得友善吗？
Give money?
给钱？
I did that too.
我也这么做了。
I paid them.
我付钱给他们。
That didn’t work, either.
那也没用。
Anybody, any suggestions?
有人有什么建议吗？
The dishwasher’s here and the sink is here.
洗碗机在这里，水槽在这里。
It’s not like it’s a long trip, you know?
这并不是一次长途旅行，你知道吗？
I come from a home where we didn’t have hot water till I was about 12 years old.
我的家直到我 12 岁左右才用上热水。
We had to heat up the water to wash the dishes, to heat up the big thing to take a bath once a week.
我们必须加热水来洗碗，加热大东西每周一次洗澡。
Took sponge baths.
洗了海绵澡。
That’s all you had, where you had to heat up the water to wash the dishes.
这就是你所拥有的一切，你必须加热水来洗碗。
My mom washed the dishes, and I dried them every night.
我妈妈洗碗，我每天晚上把它们擦干。
Anyway, what can I do?
无论如何，我能做什么呢？
On LGBTQ rights
关于 LGBTQ 权利
Some questions about gay rights.
关于同性恋权利的一些问题。
How can we incentivize other celebrities, athletes to come out of the closet more?
我们如何才能激励其他名人、运动员更多地出柜呢？
Because there’s been a huge positive external benefit from what you’ve done.
因为你所做的事情带来了巨大的积极外部效益。
Many, many people’s lives are much better off and freer and have more dignity.
许多人的生活变得更加美好、更加自由、更加有尊严。
It seems highly likely there are many more gay people in sports who are unwilling to come out of the closet even now.
体育界很可能有更多的同性恋者即使现在也不愿意出柜。
Didn’t you see the Olympics?
没看过奥运会吗？
Adam Rippon?
亚当·里彭？
The Olympics, but major league sports, it’s quite rare.
奥运会，但大联盟体育，这是相当罕见的。
It depends on what sport you’re in.
这取决于你从事什么运动。
It’s almost like if you’re a figure skater, you have to prove that you’re straight if you’re a man.
这几乎就像如果你是一名花样滑冰运动员，如果你是一个男人，你必须证明你是异性恋。
If you’re a softball player as a woman, you have to prove that you’re straight.
如果你是一名女性垒球运动员，你必须证明你是异性恋。
It depends on the sport.
这取决于运动。
But it’s difficult in team sports because if the coach is in any shape homophobic, you don’t get to play.
但在团队运动中这很困难，因为如果教练有任何恐同倾向，你就无法参加比赛。
You don’t get to compete.
你无法参加比赛。
There was .
有 。
.
。
.
。
I forget her name now.
我现在忘记她的名字了。
She played for Penn State, coach.
她为宾夕法尼亚州立大学效力，担任教练。
Anybody can help me?
有人可以帮助我吗？
She was a coach there.
她是那里的教练。
Rene Portland.
雷内·波特兰.
She openly said, “I will not allow a lesbian on my team.” This was back in the ’80s, and proudly proclaimed to her parents that there are no lesbians on the team when she was recruiting her players.
她公开表示，“我不会允许女同性恋加入我的团队。”那是在80年代，当她招募队员时，她自豪地向父母宣称队里没有女同性恋。
So do you come out?
那你出来吗？
You don’t get to play.
你不能玩。
It’s difficult in team sports or professional sports, same thing.
在团队运动或职业运动中这很困难，同样的事情。
You would get blackballed by the league if you do the unpopular thing.
如果你做了不受欢迎的事情，你就会被联盟列入黑名单。
It’s OK now.
现在好了。
It’s better.
更好了。
Say you’re starting in the NBA.
假设你刚开始进入 NBA。
You’re a good player.
你是一个好球员。
You have a proven record.
你有可靠的记录。
Very few people in that position have come out.
处于这个位置的人很少有人出来。
Do you think it’s about endorsements or commercial factors or fandom?
你认为这是代言、商业因素还是粉丝的因素？
Because they’re not going to bench you the minute after you say .
因为他们不会在你说完之后就让你坐板凳。
.
。
.
。
It’s privacy.
这是隐私。
It’s your teammates.
这是你的队友。
Some may know.
有些人可能知道。
Some may not.
有些可能不会。
I know professional team sports, there’s definitely a lot of players out there that their teammates know.
我了解职业团队运动，肯定有很多球员的队友都认识。
But it’s still a taboo, and it’s uncomfortable.
但这仍然是一个禁忌，而且令人不舒服。
It attracts attention in a way that these macho sports don’t want.
它以一种这些男子气概的运动不想要的方式吸引注意力。
Even on the tennis tour, I was lucky that I could come out because I knew I could still play tennis no matter what happened.
即使在网球巡回赛中，我很幸运能够出来，因为我知道无论发生什么我仍然可以打网球。
Endorsements, I didn’t care.
赞同，我不在乎。
I lost a lot of money, but I just wanted to play tennis and be true to myself.
我损失了很多钱，但我只想打网球并忠于自己。
I knew I could still play no matter what.
我知道无论如何我仍然可以打球。
The ranking is this — you get to play.
排名是这样 — 你可以玩。
Even on the tennis tour, I was lucky that I could come out because I knew I could still play tennis no matter what happened.
即使在网球巡回赛中，我很幸运能够出来，因为我知道无论发生什么我仍然可以打网球。
Endorsements, I didn’t care.
赞同，我不在乎。
I lost a lot of money, but I just wanted to play tennis and be true to myself.
我损失了很多钱，但我只想打网球并忠于自己。
I knew I could still play no matter what.
我知道无论如何我仍然可以打球。
But on team sports, it’s tricky.
但在团队运动中，这就很棘手了。
I get that, that it’s difficult, especially for men.
我明白，这很困难，尤其是对男人来说。
On the men’s tour, the guys are so far in the closet I don’t even know who they are.
在男子巡演中，这些人都深藏在柜子里，我什至不知道他们是谁。
It’s disappointing because the women are much more brave on that front.
这令人失望，因为女性在这方面要勇敢得多。
I don’t know why actually.
其实我也不知道为什么。
On being Czech
作为捷克人
You were born in Czechoslovakia, what’s now the Czech Republic.
你出生在捷克斯洛伐克，也就是现在的捷克共和国。
Do you follow Czech politics still at all?
您还关注捷克政治吗？
Yes, unfortunately.
是的，不幸的是。
Why do you think something seems to have gone wrong?
为什么你认为有些事情似乎出了问题？
Do you think it’s something about the Communist heritage of what is now Czech Republic that prevents it from being this perfect fit into the European Union?
您是否认为现在的捷克共和国的共产主义传统阻碍了它与欧盟的完美融合？
What’s your diagnosis?
你的诊断是什么？
It’s a great country to live in, but the politics have gone slightly downhill.
这是一个适合居住的伟大国家，但政治却略有走下坡路。
I think people have a short memory.
我认为人的记忆力都很短。
There are too many people still pining for the good old Communist days, as if there was anything good about it.
有太多的人仍然怀念过去美好的共产主义时光，好像这有什么好东西一样。
A former Communist, Zeman, was reelected president again, or prime minister — whatever he is now.
前共产党人泽曼再次当选总统，或者总理——不管他现在是什么。
It’s frustrating.
这很令人沮丧。
It’s still a great place to be and a democratic country.
它仍然是一个伟大的地方和一个民主国家。
I think overall it’s done really well.
我认为总体来说做得非常好。
But it’s frustrating to me to see the right-wing politics winning so much these days, and authoritarians winning the elections.
但如今看到右翼政治赢得如此多的胜利，而威权主义者赢得选举，这让我感到沮丧。
How did you think about the split with Slovakia when that came?
当那件事发生时，你如何看待与斯洛伐克的分裂？
I think they would rather take it back if they could.
我认为如果可以的话他们宁愿收回它。
But it was peaceful.
但一切都很平静。
It was done nicely.
做得很好。
Nobody died.
没有人死。
There was no violence at all.
根本没有暴力。
It was just people voted for it.
这只是人们投票支持的。
That was that.
就是这样。
It’s a shame, but that’s what happened.
很遗憾，但事情就是这样发生的。
Say Czech writers, Milan Kundera or Hašek, do you still read them, identify with them, follow them?
比如说捷克作家，米兰·昆德拉（Milan Kundera）或哈塞克（Hašek），你还会阅读他们、认同他们、追随他们吗？
Or are you just fully in an American life but with a Czech background?
或者您完全过着美国生活，但有捷克背景？
I’m both.
我两者都是。
I feel very much at home here.
我在这里感到宾至如归。
I’m a total American, but I still feel at home when I go to Czech Republic.
我是一个彻头彻尾的美国人，但当我去捷克共和国时，我仍然有宾至如归的感觉。
My sister lives there, and it’s where I grew up.
我姐姐住在那里，也是我长大的地方。
The town is the same.
小镇也是一样。
There’s still no traffic lights there.
那里仍然没有红绿灯。
It hasn’t changed.
它没有改变。
I feel very much at home both places.
这两个地方我都感到宾至如归。
I must say if Czechs play Americans in hockey, I root for the Czechs.
我必须说，如果捷克人在曲棍球比赛中与美国队比赛，我会支持捷克人。
Ashamed to say that, maybe still also rooting for the underdog, the smaller country.
说来惭愧，也许仍然支持弱者、小国。
We’re a country of I think 10, 12 million people.
我们是一个拥有 10、1200 万人的国家。
There’s Ivan Lendl, Martina Hingis’s mother, yourself — all from Czech Republic.
还有伊万·伦德尔（Ivan Lendl）、玛蒂娜·辛吉斯（Martina Hingis）的母亲，还有你自己——都来自捷克共和国。
Why so much tennis talent from your country?
为什么你们国家有这么多网球天才？
That was about the only sport we could play there.
这几乎是我们在那里可以进行的唯一运动。
For me, it was the availability of playing because we had a club in my hometown.
对我来说，重要的是可以参加比赛，因为我们在我的家乡有一个俱乐部。
It was the opportunity.
这就是机会。
I had good coaching.
我有很好的教练。
It was a sport that I loved.
这是我喜欢的一项运动。
Ivan Lendl was from a tennis family.
伊万·伦德尔出身于网球世家。
Martina, tennis family, it was passed generation to generation.
玛蒂娜，网球世家，代代相传。
Also the club scene is very healthy.
俱乐部的氛围也非常健康。
Czechs are pretty athletic anyway and active.
无论如何，捷克人都非常运动且活跃。
But most of all, the clubs are set up where you walk to the club in your hometown.
但最重要的是，俱乐部设立在你家乡的俱乐部所在地。
It’s very safe, so you walk.
非常安全，所以你可以步行。
You can stay there all day on the weekend.
周末你可以呆在那里一整天。
Or after school, you go straight to tennis and play.
或者放学后，你直接去打网球。
Then you come home before dark.
然后你在天黑之前回家。
It’s just a nice scene.
这只是一个美好的场景。
And it’s cheap, so you don’t have to be wealthy to make it.
而且它很便宜，所以你不必很有钱就能做到。
You have good coaching and people to play with.
你有很好的教练和可以一起比赛的人。
I played against all the people.
我和所有人比赛。
Whatever my level was, I played against those people.
无论我的水平如何，我都会和那些人比赛。
It wasn’t I only played against girls my age.
我并不是只和同龄的女孩比赛。
I played whoever I could compete against.
我会和任何我能与之竞争的人比赛。
That breeds, I think, good players.
我认为这会培养出优秀的球员。
In your memoir, you wrote the following, and I quote: “Charlottesville reminded me of my part of Czechoslovakia.” Please explain.
在你的回忆录中，你写了以下内容，我引用一下：“夏洛茨维尔让我想起了捷克斯洛伐克的那部分。”请解释一下。
You mean last summer Charlottesville?
你是说去年夏天夏洛茨维尔吗？
No, living in Charlottesville.
不，住在夏洛茨维尔。
Oh, living in Charlottesville.
哦，住在夏洛茨维尔。
Well, it’s Blue Ridge Mountains.
嗯，这是蓝岭山脉。
It’s the same climate and same countryside, very similar to where I grew up and very comfortable.
同样的气候、同样的乡村，与我长大的地方非常相似，而且非常舒适。
Emotionally, what was it like to regain your Czech citizenship?
从情感上来说，重新获得捷克公民身份感觉如何？
I waited for that.
我等待着那个。
I don’t know why I waited.
我不知道我为什么要等。
You had to get so much paperwork done.
你必须完成这么多的文书工作。
I finally get it organized, and I send it.
我终于把它整理好了，然后发送出去。
I don’t get anything back.
我没有得到任何回报。
I finally called.
我终于打电话了。
They didn’t get the paperwork.
他们没有收到文件。
I’m like, “Oh, I have to start over again.”
我想，“哦，我必须重新开始。”
Two years later, I finally got to it.
两年后，我终于做到了。
It happened that I got it after Obama became president, not under George W.
碰巧我是在奥巴马就任总统之后得到的，而不是在乔治·W·布什时期得到的。
Bush.
布什。
People are saying I did it on purpose because I didn’t want to be an American anymore because of George W.
人们说我是故意这样做的，因为因为乔治·W·布什，我不想再成为美国人了。
Bush.
布什。
It had nothing to do with it.
与此无关。
I just wasn’t organized enough to get all the paperwork done.
我只是没有足够的组织能力来完成所有的文书工作。
So I have two passports.
所以我有两本护照。
It’s nice to feel like you belong to both countries.
感觉自己属于这两个国家真是太好了。
Because when I defected, the reason I defected was you couldn’t get visa unless the government allowed you to get visa.
因为当我叛逃时，我叛逃的原因是除非政府允许你获得签证，否则你无法获得签证。
They wouldn’t let me play the US Open, so I defected.
他们不让我参加美国公开赛，所以我叛逃了。
Then for six years, I was stateless.
然后六年的时间里，我一直处于无国籍状态。
I had a thing that said reentry permit.
我有一个东西，上面写着再入境许可。
It looked like a passport, but it says reentry permit.
看起来像护照，但上面写着再入境许可。
I had to get visa every single place I went.
我去的每一个地方都必须获得签证。
When you’re filling out the paperwork, it says country of citizenship.
当您填写文件时，它会显示国籍。
I had to put stateless.
我不得不把无国籍。
Finally in ’81 when I got my citizenship, USA, and I got my passport.
终于在 81 年，我获得了美国公民身份，并拿到了护照。
The next day, I’m flying to Europe.
第二天，我就飞往欧洲。
They said, “Do you have a passport?” I’m like, “Do I have a passport?”
他们问：“你有护照吗？”我问：“我有护照吗？”
I still remember that moment.
我仍然记得那一刻。
I was so proud.
我很自豪。
Now I have two passports.
现在我有两本护照。
It’s very cool.
非常酷。
On living in America
关于在美国生活
What was your biggest shock when you came here as a defector?
当你作为一名叛逃者来到这里时，你最大的震惊是什么？
I came here in ’73.
我73年来到这里。
Then I defected in ’75.
然后我在 75 年叛逃了。
When I first came here in ’73?
73 年我第一次来这里的时候？
Yes.
是的。
I’ve seen American cars before in Germany but still the size of American cars.
我以前在德国见过美国车，但尺寸还是美国车。
They’re still astonished when you see an old Cadillac El Dorado.
当你看到一辆旧凯迪拉克埃尔多拉多时，他们仍然感到惊讶。
It’s like four feet longer than a SUV, just huge.
它比 SUV 长四英尺，非常巨大。
But what astonished me the most was that there were oranges.
但最让我惊讶的是还有橘子。
The first tournament I played was in Fort Lauderdale.
我参加的第一场比赛是在劳德代尔堡。
There was oranges on the trees.
树上结满了橘子。
You could just pick them off the tree.
你可以把它们从树上摘下来。
Growing up, we had oranges once a year for maybe two weeks.
在成长过程中，我们每年吃一次橙子，持续大约两周。
For Christmas, you had oranges.
圣诞节，你吃的是橙子。
It was the most precious thing you could eat.
这是你能吃到的最珍贵的东西。
It was more expensive than beef, and here you could just pick it off the tree.
它比牛肉还贵，在这里你可以直接从树上摘下来。
I picked up a coconut.
我捡起一个椰子。
Took me about three hours to get inside it, but I ate the inside of a coconut.
我花了大约三个小时才进去，但我吃了椰子里面的东西。
The size of ham on a sandwich because growing up, again, pork was very expensive.
三明治上火腿的大小，因为在成长过程中，猪肉非常昂贵。
You had bread and maybe one slice of ham.
你吃了面包，也许还有一片火腿。
I would eat around it, so I’ve got a big chunk of ham on the last bite.
我会在它周围吃饭，所以最后一口我吃了一大块火腿。
Here you get a ham sandwich.
在这里你会得到一个火腿三明治。
It’s two pieces of bread and this much ham.
这是两片面包和这么多火腿。
It’s like, oh my god, this is amazing — $2.50 for a ham sandwich, still remember it.
就像，天啊，这太棒了 ——一个火腿三明治2.50美元，还记得吗。
For me, that was astonishing — grocery stores, astonishing.
对我来说，这真是令人惊讶——杂货店，令人惊讶。
What bugged you the most the early years?
早年最困扰你的是什么？
What bothered me the most?
什么最困扰我？
Yeah.
是的。
Probably not being able to talk to my family.
可能无法和家人交谈。
About this country.
关于这个国家。
Obviously you missed friends, family, but about America.
显然你想念朋友、家人，但也想念美国。
Then nothing.
然后什么也没有。
Things were great.
一切都很棒。
It was Watergate, which I’m like, “Where is this place of Watergate?”
那是水门事件，我想，“水门事件在哪里？”
It was the big thing, ’73.
这是一件大事，73 年。
I did not understand that.
我不明白。
Politics seemed to be very reasonable.
政治似乎很合理。
People are nice and welcoming.
人们友善而热情。
When I defected, I was welcomed with open arms in Texas.
当我叛逃时，德克萨斯州对我张开双臂欢迎。
I had everything.
我拥有一切。
So back then, nothing.
所以那时候什么都没有。
What was it like to go skiing with Donald Trump?
和唐纳德·特朗普一起去滑雪是什么感觉？
His wife was a lot faster skier than he was.
他妻子的滑雪速度比他快得多。
I knew Ivanka before she even met Donald Trump because she’s Czech.
在伊万卡遇见唐纳德·特朗普之前我就认识她了，因为她是捷克人。
She was a friend of a good Czech friend of mine.
她是我一个捷克好朋友的朋友。
I met her in New York back in the ’70s.
七十年代我在纽约遇见了她。
I skied with them a couple times in Aspen, with the family.
我和家人一起在阿斯彭滑雪了几次。
Played tennis with them ever?
和他们一起打过网球吗？
No. Have you seen .
不，你见过吗？
.
。
.?
.?
That is a classic photo of him hitting a forehand volley.
这是他正手截击的经典照片。
Oh, it’s a thing of beauty.
哦，这是一件美丽的事情。
It’s like, “Really?
就像，“真的吗？
You wear those shorts?
你穿那条短裤吗？
OK.”
好的。”
In some ways, you’ve been critical of the Trump presidency.
在某些方面，您一直批评特朗普总统任期。
Some ways?
一些方法？
Some ways.
一些方法。
If you think about structurally, how did America get into its current problems?
如果从结构上思考，美国是如何陷入当前问题的？
What’s your explanation?
你的解释是什么？
Facebook, Cambridge Analytica, bots.
Facebook、剑桥分析、机器人。
It was a perfect storm, or a horrible storm for Clinton.
对于克林顿来说，这是一场完美的风暴，或者说是一场可怕的风暴。
There’s no doubt about that.
这是毫无疑问的。
Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong, but still you thought somehow .
所有可能出错的事情都出错了，但你仍然以某种方式思考。
.
。
.
。
We knew about the Electoral College.
我们知道选举团制度。
I think that system needs to be looked at.
我认为需要审视该系统。
It’s not working.
它不起作用。
If I lived in Hawaii, I would be really pissed because my vote doesn’t count because by then, the election’s decided.
如果我住在夏威夷，我会非常生气，因为我的选票不算数，因为到那时，选举已经决定了。
It should really be one person, one vote, regardless of where you live.
它实际上应该是一个人一票，无论你住在哪里。
I don’t know why geography makes a difference.
我不知道为什么地理会产生影响。
I’m for state rights up to a point because if you do something here, you’re OK.
在某种程度上，我支持国家权利，因为如果你在这里做某事，那就没问题。
If you do the same thing here, you’re a criminal.
如果你在这里做同样的事情，你就是罪犯。
I just don’t get that.
我就是不明白。
How can it be so disparate, so different from state to state?
各个州之间的情况怎么会如此不同？
Particularly now with legal marijuana, etc., or crossing state lines with liquor in your car, it just doesn’t make sense.
特别是现在有了合法的大麻等，或者车里带着酒跨越州界，这是没有意义的。
Anyway, I’m not an authoritarian at all, obviously, but I think the federal government needs to be more responsible for what’s going on in our country.
不管怎样，显然我根本不是独裁者，但我认为联邦政府需要对我们国家正在发生的事情承担更多责任。
There’s too many things that are unfair in this country.
这个国家有太多不公平的事情。
It could be so much better.
它可能会好得多。
How did it all happen?
这一切是怎么发生的？
I think you see the statistics.
我想你看到了统计数据。
You get frustrated because it doesn’t make any sense for so many women still to be voting that way.
你会感到沮丧，因为这么多女性仍然以这种方式投票是没有任何意义的。
People just don’t pay enough attention to facts.
人们只是没有对事实给予足够的关注。
If I talk to a lot of Eastern European or Communist èmigrès — Garry Kasparov, Masha Gessen — I get the sense that they view what’s happening in America now through the lens of their history .
如果我与许多东欧或共产主义移民 ——加里·卡斯帕罗夫、玛莎·格森—— 交谈，我会感觉到他们通过历史的镜头来看待美国现在正在发生的事情。
.
。
.
。
Fifty years later.
五十年后。
.
。
.
。
.
。
and a history of fascism and authoritarianism.
以及法西斯主义和威权主义的历史。
I was born in the United States.
我出生在美国。
When I look at what’s happening now, I tend to view it more as recreating a version of late 19th-century politics, where things are very partisan and wild, and leaders make different kinds of irresponsible decisions or have strange rhetoric by, say, the standards of the ’80s or the ’90s.
当我审视现在正在发生的事情时，我更倾向于将其视为重现 19 世纪末政治的一个版本，那里的事情非常党派之争和疯狂，领导人做出各种不负责任的决定，或者以 80 年代或 90 年代的标准来看奇怪的言论。
How convinced are you that that kind of Eastern European authoritarian lens is the right way to think about what’s happening in America today?
您有多相信这种东欧独裁视角是思考当今美国正在发生的事情的正确方式？
Because that’s how Trump got elected.
因为特朗普就是这样当选的。
It is very similar to that.
与此非常相似。
I don’t understand this fear.
我不明白这种恐惧。
We’re supposed to be land of the brave.
我们应该是勇敢者的土地。
Free, yes?
免费，是吗？
Brave?
勇敢的？
But fear is what drives people to make these decisions.
但恐惧是驱使人们做出这些决定的原因。
I had therapy long time ago.
我很久以前就接受过治疗。
The therapist said, “You don’t ever make decisions based on fear because you make wrong decisions.” But that’s how people are voting, based on fear so much.
治疗师说：“你永远不会因为恐惧而做出决定，因为你会做出错误的决定。”但这就是人们基于恐惧而投票的方式。
I don’t know what we’re afraid of because nothing bad has really happened in this country since the Civil War.
我不知道我们害怕什么，因为自内战以来这个国家没有发生过任何糟糕的事情。
You really think about it.
你真的考虑一下。
Pearl Harbor, yes, horrible, awful, but compare that to what went on in China, Communist countries, of course all the wars in Europe, World War I, World War II, Korean War.
珍珠港事件，是的，可怕，可怕，但是与中国、共产主义国家，当然还有欧洲所有战争、第一次世界大战、第二次世界大战、朝鲜战争相比。
Compare that to that and there’s no comparison.
与此相比，没有可比性。
We have not really been touched, yet we’re so scared here.
我们并没有真正被感动，但我们在这里很害怕。
Of what?
属于什么？
I don’t understand that.
我不明白。
It’s like this manufactured fear.
这就像这种人为制造的恐惧。
Then people are just blind.
那么人们就只是盲目的。
They make these decisions on emotions rather than rational thinking.
他们根据情感而不是理性思考做出这些决定。
On what Martina Navratilova is doing next
关于玛蒂娜·纳芙拉蒂洛娃接下来要做什么
What’s your ideal trip to Africa?
你理想的非洲之旅是什么样的？
Describe that for us and why it appeals to you.
为我们描述一下这一点以及为什么它对您有吸引力。
Oh gosh.
哦天哪。
I spent a lot of time in Kenya and also been in Tanzania, Ngorongoro Crater.
我在肯尼亚呆了很长时间，也去过坦桑尼亚的恩戈罗恩戈罗火山口。
I have traveled all around Kenya.
我走遍了肯尼亚。
Just anywhere, just drive.
去哪儿都行，开车就行。
Just take a car and drive.
只要开车就可以了。
That’s actually why I learned I fly.
这实际上就是我学习飞行的原因。
Maybe not drive.
也许不会开车。
It’s safer to fly in Kenya than to drive.
在肯尼亚乘飞机比开车更安全。
The roads are pretty bad.
路况相当糟糕。
It’s magic.
这很神奇。
Anybody that wants to go to Africa, do it.
任何想去非洲的人都可以去。
Don’t think about it.
别想了。
It’s amazing.
太棒了。
The people are fantastic and the animals.
这里的人和动物都很棒。
It’s just magic.
这只是魔法。
Two final questions.
最后两个问题。
First .
第一的 。
.
。
.
。
I’m going back in time.
我要回到过去。
What can you share with us about what you’re planning on doing next with your energy, your organizational, managerial, and educational abilities?
您能与我们分享一下您下一步计划用您的精力、组织、管理和教育能力做什么吗？
COWEN: Plus your athleticism.
COWEN：加上你的运动能力。
Maybe get a GED.
也许获得 GED。
I’m helping my kids with their homework.
我正在帮助我的孩子们做作业。
I think I could pass, but I don’t know.
我想我可以通过，但我不知道。
Seriously, I do a lot of speaking.
说实话，我说了很多话。
I do speeches around the world on women’s issues, LGBT.
我在世界各地就女性、LGBT 问题发表演讲。
Still being an activist, I’m going to march on Saturday in Miami.
作为一名活动家，我将于周六在迈阿密游行。
I can’t come to Washington, but I’ll be marching in Miami.
我不能来华盛顿，但我会在迈阿密游行。
Actually, we live about 10 minutes from Parkland so it really hit home as my daughter, her friends were wondering whether their friends were impacted — of course, everybody was impacted — but if people got hurt.
事实上，我们住的地方距离帕克兰大约 10 分钟路程，所以这真的很打击我的女儿，她的朋友们想知道他们的朋友是否受到了影响 ——“当然，每个人都受到了影响”—— 但如果有人受伤了。
I think just keep being an activist, keep speaking out for the right things.
我认为只要继续做一名积极分子，继续为正确的事情发声。
I’ve always been a proponent for the little guy, always defending the little kid against the bullies.
我一直是小家伙的支持者，总是保护小孩子免受欺凌。
I’ll keep doing that because that’s just who I am.
我会继续这样做，因为这就是我。
I can’t help it.
我情不自禁。
Final question before we get to audience Q&A, to the extent you are still optimistic about the United States .
在我们进行观众问答之前的最后一个问题，您对美国仍然持乐观态度。
.
。
.
。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
.
。
.
。
.
。
what is it that most makes you optimistic?
最让你乐观的是什么？
Our institutions.
我们的机构。
I think the people are waking up.
我认为人们正在觉醒。
I think we slid into complacency and being comfortable, almost lazy, as nothing bad is going to happen.
我认为我们陷入了自满和舒适，几乎是懒惰，因为不会发生任何不好的事情。
Little by little, that frog is going to get boiled in that water.
渐渐地，那只青蛙就会被水煮沸。
I think a lot of people are starting to jump out of the water now.
我想现在很多人都开始跳出水面了。
I think people are waking up and getting involved.
我认为人们正在觉醒并参与其中。
Most of all, the young ones.
最重要的是，年轻人。
Again, maybe Parkland might be the tipping point for a horrible reason, but in a good way now that the young kids are realizing that we don’t want the old people to decide what our lives will look like 20 years from now or 30 years from now or what they look like now, actually.
再说一次，也许帕克兰可能是一个可怕原因的转折点，但现在年轻的孩子们意识到我们不希望老年人决定我们20年后或30年后的生活，或者实际上他们现在的样子，这是一个很好的方式。
I think I’m optimistic because of the young ones.
我想我之所以乐观是因为年轻人。
Martina, thank you very much.
玛蒂娜，非常感谢你。
Q&A
问答
Tyler, you need to drink more water.
泰勒，你需要多喝水。
You’re not hydrating at all.
你根本没有补水。
That’s the athlete in me.
这就是我内心的运动员。
We will take questions at two mics.
我们将通过两个麦克风提问。
I will alternate.
我会交替。
Please note these are questions.
请注意这些是问题。
We are here to hear from Martina.
我们来这里是为了听取玛蒂娜的消息。
If you start making a speech, I will cut you off.
如果你开始演讲，我就会打断你。
She of course has the option of not answering any question she doesn’t want to.
她当然可以选择不回答任何她不想回答的问题。
Challenge.
挑战。
Please form a line at the mic.
请在麦克风前排成一队。
Is there a line?
有线吗？
Anybody want to ask questions?
有人想问问题吗？
I talked to the tennis team before I got here, so they’re out of questions.
在我来这里之前我和网球队谈过，所以他们没有问题。
Hi Martina.
嗨玛蒂娜。
Hello.
你好。
Yes, question.
是的，问题。
I just wanted to say it’s an honor to meet you and listen to your speech.
我只是想说很荣幸见到您并聆听您的演讲。
You’re awesome.
你太棒了。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you George Mason for having us.
感谢乔治·梅森邀请我们。
Question going back to the big news today and recently about the pay gap and Wimbledon, my thought and, I guess, my question to you is, moving forward this year and from now on, will you not do any commentary either with BBC or here in the United States unless it’s guaranteed that the pay gap between you and someone like John McEnroe will be completely decreased?
问题回到今天和最近关于薪酬差距和温布尔登的重大新闻，我的想法，我想，我对你的问题是，从今年开始，从现在开始，你不会在 BBC 或美国这里做任何评论，除非能保证你和约翰·麦肯罗这样的人之间的薪酬差距将完全缩小？
Again, it’s not about me and John McEnroe.
再说一遍，这与我和约翰·麦肯罗无关。
It’s about what women should be getting paid compared to men.
这是关于与男性相比女性应该得到的报酬。
I think transparency is the biggest reason why we don’t have equal pay or closer to it, certainly because people don’t know what anybody else is making.
我认为透明度是我们无法实现同工同酬或接近同工同酬的最大原因，当然是因为人们不知道其他人赚了什么。
I said I would work for BBC for free.
我说过我会免费为 BBC 工作。
That’s the only game in town.
这是城里唯一的游戏。
I really wanted to work.
我真的很想工作。
I wanted to speak to people in England.
我想和英国人说话。
Wimbledon has been always broadcast by BBC ever since there was TV.
自从有电视以来，温布尔登一直由 BBC 转播。
It’s always been BBC, so it’s the only game in town.
一直都是 BBC 播出，所以这是城里唯一的游戏。
When they tell you this is all there is, you take it.
当他们告诉你这就是全部时，你就接受它。
I would probably work rather for free than get paid one-tenth, quite frankly, because it’s not about the money.
坦率地说，我可能宁愿免费工作，也不愿拿十分之一的报酬，因为这与钱无关。
It’s about what’s fair.
这是关于什么是公平的。
I don’t have that problem with Tennis Channel.
我对网球频道没有这个问题。
I don’t have a problem there.
我在那里没有问题。
I think they’re very fair.
我认为他们非常公平。
Same with BT Sport, I also do some work with them.
和英国电信体育频道一样，我也和他们一起做一些工作。
I haven’t, quite frankly, known that it was this disparate.
坦率地说，我不知道这是如此不同。
I think it’s across the board for the other athletes whether it’s Lindsay Davenport compared to what Andy Roddick’s making or Tracy Austin compared to Tim Henman or whatever.
我认为对于其他运动员来说，无论是林赛·达文波特与安迪·罗迪克的成就相比，还是特雷西·奥斯汀与蒂姆·亨曼相比，都是全面的。
However you want to put it, the pay gap is huge.
不管你怎么说，薪酬差距都是巨大的。
It’s a lot bigger than we even thought, and it needs to stop.
它比我们想象的要大得多，它需要停止。
Maybe tennis will be another push forward in the right direction.
也许网球将是朝正确方向的又一次推动。
It’s not about how much we’re getting paid.
这与我们得到多少报酬无关。
It’s about getting paid fairly compared to other people.
这是关于与其他人相比获得公平的报酬。
Next question.
下一个问题。
Hi Martina.
嗨玛蒂娜。
Hi.
你好。
Thanks so much for coming.
非常感谢您的光临。
It’s been a pleasure to hear your comments.
很高兴听到您的评论。
Thank you.
谢谢。
I have a very practical question, and it deals with nutrition and your feelings about nutrition.
我有一个非常实际的问题，涉及营养以及您对营养的感受。
Would you be able to reveal your diet?
能透露一下你的饮食习惯吗？
Ah.
啊。
NAVRATILOVA: It’s interesting because I’ve .
NAVRATILOVA：这很有趣，因为我已经。
.
。
.
。
I don’t even want to start.
我什至不想开始。
Yes, I’ll tell you.
是的，我会告诉你。
Just the last six weeks, I started this diet called Whole30 because I was too used to having a drink every night, or two.
就在过去六周，我开始了这种名为 Whole30 的饮食习惯，因为我太习惯每晚或两晚喝一杯了。
My stomach got a little bit bigger.
我的肚子有点大了。
And I’ve been eating less, but I still couldn’t shake it.
而且我吃得越来越少了，但还是无法摆脱它。
I’m fit.
我很健康。
I’m in good shape and everything, but I was just ticked off.
我的身体状况一切都很好，但我只是很生气。
Most of all, I didn’t want to get into a habit of drinking.
最重要的是，我不想养成喝酒的习惯。
I’ve been eating healthy since ’81, when I really got into nutrition, but I still couldn’t shake it.
从 81 年开始，我就开始健康饮食，当时我真正开始关注营养，但我仍然无法摆脱它。
So this Whole30 is no dairy, no alcohol, and no grains, which means that’s no sugar.
因此，这款 Whole30 不含乳制品、酒精和谷物，这意味着不含糖。
Grains is sugar.
谷物是糖。
I mostly did it just to see what I feel like, and I’ve had much better energy.
我这么做主要是为了看看自己的感受，而且我的精力也好多了。
I also cut out coffee, which I didn’t need to.
我还戒掉了咖啡，这是我不需要的。
I’ve been a much, much happier camper, and the weight came off without even looking at the scale — my pants all of a sudden, like, “Oh, they’re falling off.” I feel much, much better.
我是一个非常非常快乐的露营者，甚至不用看体重秤，体重就减轻了——我的裤子突然间就好像，“哦，它们掉下来了。”我感觉好多了。
That’s it, mostly proteins and nuts, lots of nuts, avocados, and eggs, and lots of veggies.
就是这样，主要是蛋白质和坚果，大量的坚果、鳄梨、鸡蛋和大量的蔬菜。
No grains.
没有谷物。
Grain is sugar.
谷物是糖。
Just realize how much pasta is just a filler.
只要意识到有多少面食只是一种填充物即可。
Next question.
下一个问题。
I have two totally disconnected questions.
我有两个完全无关的问题。
Quick ones though.
不过很快的。
I was wondering what your opinion was of the Billie Jean King movie with Bobby Riggs.
我想知道你对比莉·简·金与鲍比·里格斯主演的电影有何看法。
My other question is, what was your favorite place to eat in Charlottesville?
我的另一个问题是，您最喜欢在夏洛茨维尔吃饭的地方是什么？
I don’t remember the Charlottesville question because that was 30, almost 40 years ago.
我不记得夏洛茨维尔的问题了，因为那是 30 年前、差不多 40 年前的事了。
That’s a while back.
那是不久前的事了。
The Bobby Riggs, the movie, I was not in the country because it was in ’73.
《鲍比·里格斯》这部电影，我当时不在乡下，因为那是 73 年的事。
I had just had to leave to go back to Czechoslovakia because my visa ran out.
由于签证到期，我不得不离开返回捷克斯洛伐克。
I did not go to Houston but just read about it in the paper.
我没有去休斯敦，只是在报纸上看到的。
I never watched the actual match.
我从来没有看过真正的比赛。
I was invited to these premieres when they were starting them at Wimbledon and the US Open last year, but I couldn’t make it.
去年他们在温布尔登和美国公开赛上举办这些首映式时，我被邀请参加这些首映式，但我没能到场。
I was working or whatever.
我当时正在工作或者其他什么的。
Ironically, I finally said, “OK, I’m going to watch it on the plane back from Melbourne” because that’s when I catch up on all of my movies, catch up on the long flights.
讽刺的是，我最后说，“好吧，我要在从墨尔本回来的飞机上看它”，因为那时我才能看完所有的电影，赶上长途飞行。
Guess who’s on the flight?
猜猜飞机上有谁？
Billie Jean.
比莉·简.
She was sitting over there with her girlfriend and behind me is Venus Williams, and then John McEnroe was there as well.
她和她的女朋友坐在那儿，我身后是维纳斯·威廉姆斯，然后约翰·麦肯罗也在那里。
I think he flew first.
我认为他先飞了。
We were in business.
我们是在做生意。
I’m kidding.
我在开玩笑。
I don’t know.
我不知道。
I don’t know, actually.
实际上我不知道。
I didn’t realize John was on the plane as well.
我没有意识到约翰也在飞机上。
Anyways, I watched the movie.
无论如何，我看了这部电影。
They took some liberties, but it was well done, very well done.
他们采取了一些自由行动，但做得很好，做得非常好。
I thought Emma and Steve Carell were fantastic.
我认为艾玛和史蒂夫·卡瑞尔非常棒。
What’s the best tennis movie, if I may interject, your favorite tennis movie?
如果我可以插一句，最好的网球电影是什么？你最喜欢的网球电影是什么？
Well, that one was good.
嗯，那个很好。
I think this one probably would have been the best.
我认为这可能是最好的。
Also, it had very much a social message.
此外，它还传达了很多社会信息。
I think the tennis was the best in this one from the tennis movies that I’ve seen.
我认为网球是我看过的网球电影中最好的一部。
Next question.
下一个问题。
I’m going to borrow some of your water.
我要借你一些水。
Sure.
当然。
I’m curious hearing what trends you’ve seen in tennis doubles strategy over the last 10 years, what you see coming up?
我很好奇您在过去 10 年中看到了网球双打策略的趋势，您认为未来会出现什么？
For example, it seems like players are clogging the middle a lot more now and leaving open the shot up the line.
例如，现在球员似乎更多地堵塞了中路，并在前线留下了空位。
Well, the biggest thing in doubles is cover the middle.
嗯，双打最重要的就是掩护中场。
People cover the line too much, and you may get passed once or twice down the line, but you will get 15 balls go through the middle.
人们过多地覆盖防线，你可能会在防线上被传球一两次，但你会得到 15 个球穿过中间。
You can always blame it on your partner, right?
你总是可以把责任归咎于你的伴侣，对吗？
“So, it was your shot.” But if it’s down your line, everybody’s embarrassed because it’s my line.
“所以，这是你的机会。”但如果这是你的底线，每个人都会感到尴尬，因为这是我的底线。
So people guard the line with their life, and they leave the middle too open in regular doubles.
因此，人们用生命守卫防线，而在常规双打中，他们将中间留得太空。
Professional doubles, they’re better at covering the middle.
职业双打，他们更擅长覆盖中路。
But it’s less serve and volley.
但发球和截击较少。
People are serving and staying back, again, because the rackets make it so much easier to hit those ground strokes.
人们再次发球并留在后面，因为球拍使击球变得更加容易。
You see longer rallies, some fun doubles.
你会看到更长的集会，一些有趣的双打。
But I’ll go for the old-style serve and volley.
但我会选择老式的发球和截击。
Yeah, serve and volley still works if you do it well enough.
是的，如果你做得足够好，发球和截击仍然有效。
Next question.
下一个问题。
I guess one justification for a different pay scale for men and women in the tournaments is the difference in games they play for finals, three games for women, five for the men.
我想男子和女子在锦标赛中采用不同薪资标准的一个理由是他们在决赛中参加的比赛不同，女子为三场，男子为五场。
Could you comment on that?
你能否对此发表评论？
Three out of five sets.
五局三局。
Yes, they do that in every round.
是的，他们每一轮都这样做。
They’ve been doing that forever at Wimbledon.
他们在温布尔登一直这样做。
Then the other slams caught up.
然后其他大满贯也追上了。
Then some men’s tournaments were three-out-of-five finals, but the rest of it was two out of three.
然后有些男子比赛是五战三胜的决赛，但其他比赛都是三战二胜。
Then they realized it just takes too much out of them.
然后他们意识到这对他们来说太过分了。
So all the tournaments now are two out of three except in the Grand Slams, and that’s three out of five.
所以现在除了大满贯之外，所有赛事都是三分之二，也就是五分之三。
Women — they were holding that against us, actually, when we asked for equal prize money.
女性——事实上，当我们要求同等奖金时，她们是在反对我们。
They said, “Oh, but you only play two out of three, and men play three out of five.” And we said, “We’ll play three out of five.” “Oh no, no, no, no. We don’t want you to do that.”
他们说：“哦，但是你只玩三局之二，而男人则玩五局之三。”我们说：“我们会打五局中的三局。” “哦，不，不，不，不。我们不希望你这样做。”
So there’s that.
就是这样。
We offered.
我们提出了。
I think the men should play two out of three, but that’s just me.
我认为男人应该打三分之二，但那只是我。
That’s another story.
那是另一个故事了。
Also, they found that until they slowed down the grass at Wimbledon, which was the last tournament that finally gave us equal prize money, the ball was in play longer in the women’s matches — in two-out-of-three-set matches — than the men’s matches, three out of five.
此外，他们还发现，在温布尔登（这是最后一项最终为我们提供同等奖金的赛事）的草地放慢速度之前，女子比赛（三盘两胜）的比赛时间比男子比赛（五盘中的三盘）的比赛时间更长。
But you don’t get paid for quantity, you get paid for quality.
但你不会因为数量而获得报酬，而是因为质量而获得报酬。
Actually they did studies.
事实上他们确实有研究。
Most people came to Wimbledon — they’ve done questionnaires — most people came to watch men, but then when they were leaving, they actually enjoyed watching the women more than the men.
大多数人来温网 ——“他们做了问卷调查”——“大多数人来看男人比赛，但当他们离开时，他们实际上比男人更喜欢看女人比赛。
It depends on who you watched that day, whatever.
不管怎样，这取决于你那天看的是谁。
But the whole point is that we contribute equally to the success of the tournament.
但重点是我们为赛事的成功做出了同样的贡献。
We’re willing to play three out of five, but they didn’t want us to do that.
我们愿意打五分之三的比赛，但他们不希望我们这样做。
It’s silly.
这很愚蠢。
I think the men should play two out of three.
我认为男人应该打三分之二。
Because both men and women play, they should be paid the same.
因为男人和女人都玩，所以他们应该得到相同的报酬。
End of story.
故事结束。
It’s the right thing to do, by the way.
顺便说一句，这是正确的做法。
They were using that with the McEnroe also, that he does longer matches.
他们也在麦肯罗身上使用了这一点，即他进行更长的比赛。
He does women’s matches.
他参加女子比赛。
I wanted to do the women’s final, but he’s doing the women’s final.
我想参加女子决赛，但他参加了女子决赛。
You don’t get paid because you talk longer or whatever.
你不会因为你说得更长或其他什么而得到报酬。
I’m willing to do men’s matches, but they don’t let me.
我愿意参加男子比赛，但他们不让我。
So there’s that.
就是这样。
On Tennis Channel I’ve done a bunch of men’s matches and it’s a lot of fun.
在网球频道上，我参加了很多男子比赛，这很有趣。
Next question.
下一个问题。
This is another tennis question.
这是另一个网球问题。
I noticed a lot of the analysts will attribute a lot of thinking in the court when there’s a shot that is a successful winner — like he said, “Instead of going down the line, he obviously went across the court and thought very carefully about that shot” — when often, it seems to me, they’re just hitting the damn ball, as you say.
我注意到，当有一个成功的投篮成功时，很多分析师都会在球场上进行很多思考 ——就像他说的那样，“他显然没有走底线，而是穿过球场，非常仔细地考虑了那个投篮” ——很多时候，在我看来，他们只是击中了该死的球，就像你说的那样。
When you’re out there playing, how much of it is the thought process as opposed to just hitting the damn ball?
当你在场上打球时，有多少是思考过程而不是仅仅击球？
It’s both.
两者都是。
But you have to think very quickly because it happens in a split second, doesn’t it?
但你必须快速思考，因为它发生在瞬间，不是吗？
I always said it’s better to hit the wrong shot well than hit the right shot badly because if you overthink it, at the end, you may hit the right shot, but by then you’re like, “Ahhh, maybe I should hit it over there.”
我总是说，打错球好比打错球好，因为如果你想得太多，最后你可能会打对球，但到那时你就会想，“啊，也许我应该在那里打球。”
Just go with your instinct and you play percentages.
只要跟随你的直觉，你就可以发挥百分比。
You have a strategy.
你有一个策略。
If it works, you don’t change it.
如果它有效，你就不要改变它。
If you’re losing, then you change it.
如果你输了，那就改变它。
Maybe you go down the line, down the line, down the line.
也许你会一直走下去，走下去，走下去。
Finally they cover it, so now you go crosscourt next time they cover it.
最后他们覆盖了它，所以现在你下次他们覆盖它时就可以跨场了。
It’s always cat and mouse with your opponent.
与对手总是猫捉老鼠。
That’s the fun part.
这是有趣的部分。
Sometimes, it’s easy to overanalyze.
有时，很容易过度分析。
As I said, better to hit the wrong shot well than hit the right shot badly.
正如我所说，打好错误的球比打坏正确的球要好。
I think that sometimes they’re just talking out of their ear.
我认为有时他们只是在耳边说话。
Next question.
下一个问题。
Hi.
你好。
Thank you for being here today.
感谢您今天来到这里。
Thanks.
谢谢。
I watched you when I was a kid and a teenager.
当我还是个孩子和青少年的时候，我就看过你。
Watching you play was just a huge thrill, so I appreciate it.
看你打球真是太令人兴奋了，所以我很感激。
Thank you.
谢谢。
I was going to ask a tennis question, but I’ll switch it.
我本来想问一个网球问题，但我换个话题。
Gay rights, there’s been, obviously, enormous progress, and sometimes pulling backwards.
同性恋权利显然取得了巨大进步，有时甚至出现倒退。
I wanted to hear what you thought about in these times, what you think are the real battlegrounds that people should be fighting now.
我想听听您在这个时期的想法，您认为现在人们应该战斗的真正战场是什么。
Yeah, I mean, states’ rights.
是的，我的意思是，州的权利。
Michelangelo Signorile, who’s a gay rights activist and a TV and radio personality, actually wrote a book about it.
米开朗基罗·西格诺莱（Michelangelo Signorile）是一名同性恋权利活动家，也是一名电视和广播名人，他实际上写了一本关于此事的书。
He thought once we got the right to marry, everybody was celebrating.
他认为一旦我们获得结婚权，每个人都会庆祝。
He says, “Just watch.
他说：“就看吧。
There’s going to be so much backlash, and so many state laws are going to come up where they will try to roll back what we had just won.” And that’s exactly what’s been happening.
将会有如此多的强烈反对，许多州将出台法律，试图推翻我们刚刚赢得的胜利。”这正是正在发生的事情。
So you just be alert and pay attention to what’s going on in your state, in your county, in your district, whatever, and fight those battles one by one.
所以你只要保持警惕，关注你所在的州、你的县、你的区等等正在发生的事情，然后一一打好这些仗。
It’s a shame that we still have to do that.
遗憾的是我们仍然必须这样做。
That’s why I wish the federal government would step up and just make it against the law to make these regulations.
这就是为什么我希望联邦政府能够站出来，以违反法律的方式制定这些规定。
But they’re going the wrong way.
但他们走错了路。
They’re going the other way on that, and certainly, Trump has not been helpful in that regard at all.
他们在这方面走了相反的路，当然，特朗普在这方面根本没有提供任何帮助。
That’s an understatement.
这是轻描淡写的说法。
Yeah, he held that rainbow flag during one of the rallies, but he didn’t know it was upside down.
是的，他在一次集会上举着彩虹旗，但他不知道它是颠倒的。
He says, “I’ll be the biggest friend to the LGBT community.” Yeah, with friends like that .
他说：“我将成为 LGBT 群体最好的朋友。”是的，和这样的朋友在一起。
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You run the other way.
你往另一条路跑。
Just pay attention and get involved on a local level.
只需关注并参与当地层面即可。
Change comes from the grassroots.
改变来自基层。
It should come from the top down.
它应该是从上到下的。
It’s much quicker for it to happen from the top down, but these days, we have to do it from the bottom up.
从上到下进行要快得多，但如今，我们必须从下到上进行。
So just stay vigilant and stay involved.
因此，请保持警惕并参与其中。
And vote, vote, vote, vote.
并且投票，投票，投票，投票。
Next question.
下一个问题。
Thank you.
谢谢。
My question is about basketball.
我的问题是关于篮球的。
I met you and Nancy Lieberman at Old Dominion University .
我在奥多明尼恩大学遇见了你和南希·利伯曼。
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Uh-huh, ODU.
嗯嗯，欧杜。
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up in the clubhouse level at a basketball game one time.
有一次在一场篮球比赛中达到了俱乐部会所的水平。
It was a thrill to meet you all then.
那时很高兴见到你们大家。
Did you play basketball in Czechoslovakia?
你在捷克斯洛伐克打篮球吗？
When you came to the United States, I’m thinking .
当你来到美国时，我在想。
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。
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。
I did not.
我没有。
OK, you did not.
好吧，你没有。
Did you start when you met Nancy?
你是从遇见南希开始的吗？
Yes, Nancy taught me how to do a layup, yes.
是的，南希教我如何上篮，是的。
I started from scratch.
我从头开始。
What did you like about it?
你喜欢它什么？
What did it do for you for tennis?
它对你的网球事业有什么帮助？
Fitness, obviously.
健身，显然。
It’s a very similar movement, and just being on a team rather than by yourself.
这是一个非常相似的运动，只是在一个团队中而不是一个人。
It was a completely different sport.
这是一项完全不同的运动。
I also sprained my ankle a few times playing basketball.
我打篮球也扭伤过几次脚踝。
But the pluses were outweighing the possibility of minuses, of getting hurt, loved the competition.
但好处大于坏处，受伤的可能性，喜欢竞争。
Two on two or three on three, full court — that was my favorite.
二对二或三对三，全场比赛——这是我最喜欢的。
You just run and play and shoot and go the other way.
你只需奔跑、玩耍、射击，然后走另一条路。
Then the combination of finesse, and also, I’m a bit of a mutt in that I shoot lefty, but I do a better layup right-handed because it’s like a toss on the serve.
然后是技巧的结合，而且，我有点笨拙，因为我用左手投篮，但我用右手上篮更好，因为这就像发球时的抛球。
I dribble better with my right hand, and I move better to my right, but I shoot left, so I was confusing for people.
我用右手运球更好，我向右移动更好，但我向左投篮，所以我让人们感到困惑。
Because I was in good shape I ran a lot, so they wanted to be on my team because two on two or three on three, it really pays off to be in good shape.
因为我的状态很好，所以我跑了很多，所以他们想加入我的团队，因为二对二或三对三，保持良好的状态确实是有回报的。
Anyway, I love the sport.
无论如何，我热爱这项运动。
I think it’s a great game.
我认为这是一场很棒的比赛。
Next question.
下一个问题。
I have a quick question.
我有一个简单的问题。
I also watched you as a kid, and it’s been great to listen to you today.
我小时候也看过你，今天能听你讲话真是太好了。
Just one little side thing — I’m a high school coach around here for tennis.
只是一件小事 —— 我是这里的一名高中网球教练。
I am thinking, after hearing your fitness regimen, that I’ve been a little too light on my kids.
听完你的健身方案后，我想我对孩子们有点太宽松了。
My question is really quick, and it’s personal, so you may not want to answer it, but your kids, do they play tennis?
我的问题非常快，而且是个人问题，所以你可能不想回答它，但是你的孩子，他们打网球吗？
They don’t love it.
他们不喜欢它。
They play, but they don’t love it, which is fine with me.
他们玩，但他们不喜欢它，这对我来说很好。
My wife wanted them to be tennis players.
我妻子希望他们成为网球运动员。
I’ve had somebody else work with them.
我已经让其他人与他们一起工作了。
I work with them sometimes, but they don’t love it, and that’s OK.
我有时和他们一起工作，但他们不喜欢这样，那没关系。
The older one likes to sing, the younger one likes to dance.
年长的喜欢唱歌，年幼的喜欢跳舞。
That’s OK.
没关系。
The younger one’s walking around in ballet slippers on her tiptoes.
小女儿穿着芭蕾舞鞋踮着脚尖走来走去。
She can’t wait for her ballet practice.
她等不及要开始芭蕾舞练习了。
That’s when you know.
那时你就知道了。
When she asks me to play tennis, twice a year, I’ll play with her.
当她邀请我每年两次打网球时，我会和她一起打。
But I don’t push it.
但我不强迫它。
Physical fitness, if you don’t get to the ball you can’t hit it so well.
身体素质，如果你不接触到球，你就无法打得那么好。
When you get tired, you start making bad decisions, which goes for real life too, which is why it’s always important to take good care of yourself, period.
当你感到疲倦时，你就会开始做出错误的决定，这在现实生活中也是如此，这就是为什么照顾好自己总是很重要的原因。
Next question.
下一个问题。
Hi.
你好。
I came out in 1976 and cried when you did.
1976 年，当你出柜时，我哭了。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
The second factor is, lifelong tennis fan.
第二个因素是，终身网球迷。
There is so much beauty in your serve-and-volley game, and I know that you’re still playing some legends matches.
你的发球截击比赛非常美丽，而且我知道你还在打一些传奇比赛。
There’s such a dearth of high-quality video of you playing that I wish that we could encourage someone to get out there and film you even now.
你打球的高质量视频太缺乏了，我希望我们现在就可以鼓励有人走出去拍摄你的视频。
No, it’s better to go through the archives .
不，最好查阅档案。
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and find the old ones because I still serve and volley.
并找到旧的，因为我仍然发球和截击。
It just takes me a little while longer to get to the net.
我只是花了一点时间才能上网。
I kind of mosey on down.
我有点犹豫不决。
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I saw one film, and there’s so much of your game you still have.
观众：我看过一部电影，你仍然保留着很多你的游戏。
Thank you.
谢谢。
The hands are still there.
手还在那里。
The eyes are still there, but the legs .
眼睛还在，但腿还在。
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。
eh.
呃。
But I don’t practice it.
但我不练习。
I don’t practice fast-twitch.
我不练习快肌。
The fast-twitch is gone because I just can’t get myself fired up.
快速抽搐消失了，因为我无法让自己兴奋起来。
But thank you.
但谢谢你。
But yeah, it’s a shame that so many matches were not captured.
但是，是的，遗憾的是，很多比赛都没有被捕捉到。
Nowadays you can watch the players play just about every match they play, especially the top ones.
如今，您几乎可以观看球员的每场比赛，尤其是顶级比赛。
It’s always somewhere.
它总是在某个地方。
I come from the days where the VHS didn’t even exist.
我来自录像带甚至不存在的时代。
First time I saw myself actually hit a ball in a video, I think I was about 16 years old.
我第一次在视频中看到自己真正击球，我想我大概 16 岁。
I remember looking at photos of other players and flipping it so I could see what they looked like left-handed .
我记得看过其他球员的照片并将其翻转，这样我就可以看到他们是左撇子。
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so I could compare myself.
这样我就可以比较自己了。
Or I would mirror myself in the mirror so I could see what I looked like right-handed and then compare it to the other players.
或者我会在镜子中镜像自己，这样我就可以看到我的右手是什么样子，然后与其他球员进行比较。
Because you have an image.
因为你有一个形象。
And being a lefty, I didn’t see that.
作为一个左撇子，我没有看到这一点。
There’s some stuff on YouTube.
YouTube 上有一些东西。
I think you can catch enough.
我想你可以抓到足够的。
The quality of the video is not that good.
视频的质量不太好。
Watching Wimbledon on TV on our black-and-white grainy screen that was this big, you only knew that the ball was there because the players moved that way.
在我们这么大的黑白颗粒屏幕上观看温布尔登网球公开赛时，你只知道球在那里，因为球员们朝那个方向移动。
You couldn’t actually see the ball.
你实际上看不到球。
Now they have Hawk-Eye.
现在他们有了鹰眼。
I’m like, “God, I wish they had that in my day.” I would have won a few more matches and wouldn’t have to color my hair because I got a lot of gray hairs from those bad line calls.
我想，“天哪，我希望他们在我那个时代也能拥有这样的东西。”我本来可以多赢几场比赛，也不必染头发，因为那些糟糕的线路电话让我长出了很多白发。
Nowadays there’s no stress.
如今没有压力。
There is no stress about line calls.
线路通话没有压力。
It’s fantastic.
太棒了。
Two more questions.
还有两个问题。
Yes.
是的。
Martina, thank you so much for being here.
玛蒂娜，非常感谢你来到这里。
Thanks.
谢谢。
What’s the best advice anyone ever gave you about processing a poor performance after a match?
关于处理赛后糟糕的表现，有人给过你最好的建议是什么？
It goes back to what happened — just breaking down why I lost.
这可以追溯到发生的事情 ——只是分解我失败的原因。
Was it just a bad day or did I not prepare properly?
这只是糟糕的一天还是我没有做好充分准备？
Something broke down technically?
技术上有什么问题吗？
Was it tactics?
这是战术吗？
Did I get tired?
我累了吗？
Did I not sleep well?
难道是我没睡好？
There’s no great advice.
没有什么好的建议。
It’s just figuring out the problem and then figuring a solution to it, always staying in the solution.
它只是找出问题，然后找出解决方案，始终停留在解决方案中。
“This is what we’re going to work on so that it doesn’t happen again.” You just try to minimize those possibilities and keep trying to get better.
“这就是我们要努力的事情，以免再次发生。”你只需尽量减少这些可能性并不断努力变得更好。
Last question.
最后一个问题。
What is your opinion of PEDs, performing-enhancing drugs, as far as drug testing in tennis and other professional sports?
就网球和其他职业运动中的药物测试而言，您对 PED、表现增强药物有何看法？
I think they do a pretty good job in tennis.
我认为他们在网球方面做得很好。
They even take blood sometimes.
他们有时甚至会抽血。
They don’t just wait up after the player’s out of the tournament.
他们不会只是在玩家退出比赛后等待。
They test pretty rigorously, and they do out-of-competition testing as well, so you have to give them a schedule.
他们的测试非常严格，而且他们也会进行赛外测试，所以你必须给他们一个时间表。
It’s pretty intense.
非常激烈。
I think for tennis, certainly, there are drugs that would be helpful, but it’s such a complex sport that a drug for, for example, bicycling — it’s all about endurance.
我认为对于网球运动来说，当然有一些药物会有所帮助，但这是一项如此复杂的运动，例如，对于骑自行车的药物 – 一切都与耐力有关。
It’s very specific.
这是非常具体的。
For tennis, it’s much more than just that.
对于网球来说，它的意义远不止于此。
There are certainly drugs that would be helpful and they’re trying to do their best.
当然有些药物会有所帮助，并且他们正在尽力而为。
Usually, there are people that are still ahead of the game in that regard.
通常，有人在这方面仍然处于领先地位。
We try to do the best that we can.
我们尽力做到最好。
It can certainly be better.
它当然可以更好。
But if people really want to cheat, I think they can still do that, unfortunately.
但不幸的是，如果人们真的想作弊，我认为他们仍然可以这样做。
I’m very much against it, obviously.
显然，我非常反对它。
Martina, thank you very much.
玛蒂娜，非常感谢你。
Thank you.
谢谢。