Harriet Karimi Muriithi on Life in Kenya (Ep. 194 - BONUS)
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Conversations with Tyler.
大家好，欢迎回到《与泰勒对话》。
I am sitting here right outside of Nairobi, Kenya, in Tatu City, and I will be speaking with Harriet Muriithi.
我正坐在肯尼亚内罗毕郊外的塔图市，我将与哈里特·穆里蒂 (Harriet Muriithi) 交谈。
She’s a 22-year-old hostess and waitress.
她是一名 22 岁的女主人和女服务员。
She works at a restaurant, Roast by Carnivore, located in Tatu City.
她在位于塔图市的 Roast by Carnivore 餐厅工作。
She’s worked there for a year and a half, and she has strong interests in the hospitality sector.
她在那里工作了一年半，对酒店业有着浓厚的兴趣。
She studied supply chain management at the Kiambu Institute of Science and Technology in Kiambu County.
她在基安布县基安布科技学院学习供应链管理。
She loves reading books, watching movies, and also traveling.
她喜欢读书、看电影，还喜欢旅游。
She comes from Kirinyaga County.
她来自基里尼亚加县。
Her village is called Karumandi.
她的村庄叫卡鲁曼迪。
It’s near Mount Kenya.
它靠近肯尼亚山。
I am told the area has spectacular views, especially in the morning.
我听说这个地区有壮观的景色，尤其是在早上。
It can be cold, but it’s ideal for cash crops such as coffee and tea.
天气可能很冷，但非常适合咖啡和茶等经济作物。
She is a Kikuyu, speaking the Bantu language, and that is one of 42 tribes in Kenya.
她是基库尤人，说班图语，班图语是肯尼亚 42 个部落之一。
Harriet, welcome.
哈丽特，欢迎。
Thank you so much.
太感谢了。
What for you makes Nairobi such an interesting city?
对您来说，是什么让内罗毕成为一座如此有趣的城市？
Why is it the place you chose to live?
为什么这是你选择居住的地方？
Nairobi just has so much to offer in terms of opportunities career-wise.
内罗毕在职业方面提供了很多机会。
Also, it’s a very nice place to be in Nairobi.
此外，这是内罗毕一个非常好的地方。
The part of Nairobi you live in, why did you choose that part of the city?
您居住在内罗毕的哪个地区，您为什么选择该城市的那个地区？
This I chose because, one, it was close to the school where I was, and now it’s close to the place where I work, so it’s convenient for me to move around.
我选择这个是因为，一是离我原来的学校很近，而且现在离我工作的地方也很近，所以我出行方便。
And languages — you speak Bantu, right?
还有语言 —— 你说班图语，对吧？
That is your family’s language?
那是你家人的语言？
Yes, it is.
是的。
English, obviously, and you speak Kiswahili?
显然是英语，而且你会说斯瓦希里语？
Sure.
当然。
Any other languages?
还有其他语言吗？
Not for now, no.
暂时不行，不行。
What else would you like to know?
您还想了解什么？
Maybe a bit of Italian.
也许会一点意大利语。
Italian?
意大利语？
Yes.
是的。
Have you ever been to Italy?
你以前去过意大利吗？
No, but I do have a friend who just moved there last year.
不，但我有一个去年刚搬到那里的朋友。
If you dream of going to Italy, what do you think you will see or do?
如果您梦想去意大利，您认为您会看到或做什么？
I will say it’s the views for me.
我会说这是我的观点。
I also know it has a variety of job opportunities around that place.
我也知道那个地方有各种各样的工作机会。
Also, the pay can be quite good, more than it is here.
而且，工资也相当不错，比这里还要多。
Do you eat Italian food in Nairobi ever?
你在内罗毕吃过意大利菜吗？
Not really.
并不真地。
It’s very good.
非常好。
See if you can get some.
看看你能不能得到一些。
I like pasta very much.
我非常喜欢面食。
We do have pasta, though.
不过我们确实有面食。
The artworks in Italy, they’re very beautiful.
意大利的艺术品，非常漂亮。
Very interesting to see.
非常有趣。
Sure.
当然。
You say you like to read books.
你说你喜欢看书。
What are some of your favorite books or kinds of books?
您最喜欢的书或书籍类型是什么？
I will say fantasy, history, adventure.
我会说奇幻、历史、冒险。
What would be something you would read in fantasy?
你会在幻想中读到什么？
Let’s see.
让我们来看看。
Dean Koontz will be my writer to go all the way.
迪恩·孔茨将成为我一路走来的作家。
Actually, he covers almost every range that I actually mentioned.
事实上，他几乎涵盖了我实际提到的所有范围。
Yes.
是的。
For history, what do you like to read about?
对于历史，您喜欢读什么？
About Kenya or about Italy, other countries?
关于肯尼亚还是意大利、其他国家？
History is quite interesting because, actually, to specialize in Kenya, we have different tribes, and they all have different histories, which can be actually fascinating.
历史非常有趣，因为实际上，专门研究肯尼亚，我们有不同的部落，他们都有不同的历史，这实际上很有趣。
Something that you didn’t grow up with or didn’t experience on your way growing up.
有些东西是你成长过程中没有经历过的，或者是你成长过程中没有经历过的。
What makes Kikuyu tribe different or special?
是什么让基库尤部落与众不同或特别？
I will say it’s special because Kikuyu, in general, is a Bantu language.
我会说它很特别，因为基库尤语一般来说是班图语的一种。
But it’s divided in different modes of languages because we can actually speak Kikuyu but different versions of it.
但它分为不同的语言模式，因为我们实际上可以说基库尤语，但它有不同的版本。
Maybe from the intonations to the way you communicate.
也许从语调到沟通方式。
Two different words to mean the same thing.
两个不同的词表示同一件事。
Say the culture or the personalities, are they different for Kikuyu?
说到文化或性格，基库尤人有什么不同吗？
Not really.
并不真地。
Not really, same as other people in Kenya?
不是吗，和肯尼亚其他人一样吗？
Yes.
是的。
What are you most proud about when it comes to Nairobi?
说到内罗毕，您最自豪的是什么？
I’m proud about the growth.
我为自己的成长感到自豪。
I have seen Nairobi grow since early enough.
我很早就看到内罗毕的成长。
How old were you when you left your village?
你离开村子时几岁？
I would say I was 10.
我会说我10岁了。
That was 12 years ago.
那是12年前的事了。
That’s a long time.
那是很长一段时间了。
Yes.
是的。
What made you decide to leave?
是什么让你决定离开？
One, the reason why I left my place was I was offered a sponsorship in a school around Kitengela, so I left for school.
第一，我离开现在的原因是基滕格拉附近的一所学校向我提供了赞助，所以我去上学了。
Given that you have to choose high schools around your area, I chose around Nairobi.
考虑到你必须选择你所在地区附近的高中，我选择了内罗毕附近。
That is how I found my way in Nairobi.
这就是我在内罗毕找到出路的方式。
That’s because you’re ambitious and smart.
那是因为你雄心勃勃而且聪明。
Yes.
是的。
Did your parents come with you, or you came here at age 10 alone?
你的父母和你一起来的，还是你10岁时独自来到这里？
No. My parents were left back in Kirinyaga, but I used to live with my aunts and uncle.
不。我的父母留在了基里尼亚加，但我曾经和我的阿姨和叔叔住在一起。
They took care of you.
他们照顾你。
Yes, they did.
是的，他们做到了。
How many brothers and sisters do you have?
你有多少个兄弟姐妹？
I only have one brother.
我只有一个兄弟。
We are two.
我们是两个人。
He’s still back in the village, or he came here?
他还在村子里，还是来到了这里？
No, he’s still back in the village.
不，他还在村里。
What does he do?
他做什么的？
He’s still in school.
他还在上学。
He’s 13 years old.
他今年 13 岁。
13, so younger brother.
13、那么弟弟。
Yes.
是的。
When you see families in Nairobi, a lot — they only have two children.
当你在内罗毕看到很多家庭时，他们只有两个孩子。
You’re a part of a family of two children.
您是一个有两个孩子的家庭的一员。
Do you think that’s the future of Kenya?
您认为这就是肯尼亚的未来吗？
Yes, because the economy is quite hard as it is, and having more children is the that is leading to all these street children, a lot of people in not good businesses, like theft and stuff.
是的，因为经济确实很困难，而生更多的孩子是导致所有这些流浪儿童的原因，很多人从事不好的生意，比如盗窃之类的。
If you think of your future, you think you want two children, or something different, or maybe no children?
如果你想到你的未来，你认为你想要两个孩子，或者不同的东西，或者也许没有孩子？
I’m okay with two.
我有两个就可以了。
Two, yes.
两个，是的。
Yes.
是的。
I understand.
我明白。
What do you watch on YouTube?
你在 YouTube 上看什么？
I do watch podcasts.
我确实看播客。
Yes, podcasts, storytime.
是的，播客，故事时间。
Which podcasts?
哪些播客？
These guys —
这些家伙——
Kenya podcast or American?
肯尼亚播客还是美国播客？
No, these huge guys in America.
不，是美国的这些大人物。
Like Joe Rogan and Tim Ferriss.
就像乔·罗根和蒂姆·费里斯。
Yes, like those ones, but I can’t recall the names.
是的，就像那些人一样，但我记不起名字了。
What do you find interesting about it?
你觉得它有什么有趣的地方？
What do you listen for, or what topics?
你听什么，或者听什么主题？
The evolving technology that is coming along.
不断发展的技术正在出现。
You could say the AI.
你可以说是人工智能。
You can see the people who are privileged to own — like, they have money; they help a lot of people.
你可以看到那些有幸拥有的人——比如，他们有钱；他们帮助了很多人。
They just create a random way of reaching out to people who actually need their help.
他们只是创造了一种随机的方式来接触真正需要帮助的人。
You’re interested in tech.
你对科技感兴趣。
What social media do you use?
您使用什么社交媒体？
Social media, we do have TikTok, we do have Instagram, we do have YouTube.
社交媒体，我们有 TikTok、Instagram、YouTube。
Whatsapp as well.
Whatsapp 也是如此。
Which do you like?
你喜欢哪个？
What’s your favorite?
你最喜欢什么？
TikTok all the way.
抖音一路走来。
Because it’s more fun.
因为这样更好玩。
Yes, it is.
是的。
You make TikTok videos?
你制作 TikTok 视频吗？
I do.
我愿意。
I actually do.
我确实这么做了。
Can you tell us how to get to them?
您能告诉我们如何联系他们吗？
Sure.
当然。
What’s your site address?
你的网站地址是什么？
It’s Hazel.
是榛树。
Hazel?
榛？
Yes, Hazel Jones.
是的，黑兹尔·琼斯。
Hazel Jones?
榛子琼斯？
Yes.
是的。
On TikTok.
在抖音上。
What are your videos about?
您的视频是关于什么的？
Mostly, it’s about how I spend my days and my work at Roast.
主要是关于我如何在 Roast 度过我的日子和工作。
Yes, about how I go about my days.
是的，关于我如何度过我的日子。
You do these in English, not Bantu, or both?
你用英语而不是班图语做这些，或者两者都用？
Both.
两个都。
Depends.
视情况而定。
Sometimes it’s dancing.
有时是跳舞。
Yes, it makes it interesting when you have a little bit of everything.
是的，当你什么都有一点时，它会变得很有趣。
You’ll dance and then you’ll talk.
你会跳舞，然后你会说话。
Yes.
是的。
Your friends watch the videos?
你的朋友看视频吗？
Many strangers watch?
很多陌生人看？
They do.
他们确实这么做了。
They actually do.
他们确实这么做了。
When you listen to music, what do you listen to?
当你听音乐时，你听什么？
For me, in music, it’s about the message conveyed in the music.
对我来说，在音乐中，重要的是音乐中传达的信息。
I’m more of an old soul, the Westlife kind of vibe.
我更像是一个老灵魂，有西城男孩的氛围。
You listen to rhythm and blues?
你听节奏布鲁斯吗？
Yes, I do.
是的，我愿意。
Beyoncé?
碧昂斯？
Of course.
当然。
Is your favorite?
你最喜欢的是吗？
My all-time.
我的全时。
COWEN: Your all-time favorite.
COWEN：你一直以来的最爱。
Yes.
是的。
The Lemonade album by her is one of my favorites.
她的《Lemonade》专辑是我的最爱之一。
Oh, that is an amazing one.
哦，那真是太棒了。
There’s a new one.
有一个新的。
I forget the title, but I think that’s quite good.
忘记标题了，不过我觉得还不错。
It’s a 1970 sound for a lot of it.
大部分内容都是 1970 年的声音。
A lot taken from disco and earlier musics.
很多来自迪斯科和早期的音乐。
Okay.
好的。
I’ll be sure to check that out.
我一定会检查一下。
In Kenyan music, what do you listen to?
在肯尼亚音乐中，您听什么？
I used to listen to a bit of bongo.
我曾经听过一点邦戈曲。
You know bongo?
你知道邦戈吗？
Of course.
当然。
Yes, we do that.
是的，我们就是这么做的。
We also do that right now.
我们现在也这样做。
Gengetone a bit.
根吉通有点。
It’s the clubbing vibe.
这是俱乐部的氛围。
Do you listen to Nigerian music?
你听尼日利亚音乐吗？
Yes, they are Afrobeats.
是的，他们是非洲节奏。
That’s very popular now also in America.
现在这在美国也很流行。
Really?
真的吗？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
That is interesting.
这很有趣。
A lot of big Nigerian stars now in the US on YouTube, most of all.
最重要的是，现在美国的 YouTube 上有很多尼日利亚大明星。
Ah, that is interesting.
啊，这很有趣。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
You go out to clubs at night?
你晚上去俱乐部吗？
Sometimes I do, yes.
有时我会这样做，是的。
That’s to hear music or to meet people, or how do you think about it?
那是为了听音乐或见人，或者你怎么看待它？
Just for fun?
只是为了好玩吗？
Mostly it’s more about having fun, just letting loose a bit from the normal schedule and work and everything.
大多数情况下，更多的是为了享受乐趣，只是从正常的日程、工作和一切中放松一下。
Also, it’s a nice way to hang out with friends.
此外，这也是与朋友聚会的好方法。
You all can catch up and talk about what has been going on because we’re all in different parts right now.
你们都可以聊聊最近发生的事情，因为我们现在都在不同的地方。
Could you tell us a little about the restaurant where you work?
您能告诉我们一些您工作的餐厅的情况吗？
Sure.
当然。
The restaurant is Roast by Carnivore.
这家餐厅是Carnivore 的Roast。
Right now I’m the waiter/hostess, but hostess is my main thing.
现在我是服务员/女主人，但女主人是我的主要工作。
I just help out a bit in service interacting with people because as a hostess, overall, I manage and make sure that all the guests visiting the restaurant, they are served quite right, they have everything they need, and just checking up on them every once in a while.
我只是在与人们互动的服务方面帮忙，因为作为一名女主人，总的来说，我负责管理并确保所有来餐厅的客人都得到很好的服务，他们拥有他们需要的一切，并且每隔一段时间就会检查一下他们。
You have to oversee the other staff and make sure they’re working well?
您必须监督其他员工并确保他们工作顺利吗？
Yes.
是的。
What‘’s the main mistake sometimes they make?
他们有时犯的主要错误是什么？
I wouldn’t call it a mistake, but when we are a bit overwhelmed, you have like five, six tables you’re handling, and they all want your attention.
我不会说这是一个错误，但当我们有点不知所措时，你要处理大约五、六张桌子，它们都需要你的注意。
You can‘’t be there all at once, so somebody has to step in to help out.
你不可能同时到达那里，所以必须有人介入提供帮助。
That’s you.
那就是你。
Yes.
是的。
What kind of food do they serve?
他们提供什么类型的食物？
Mostly it’s about meats.
主要是关于肉类。
We offer different types of meats.
我们提供不同类型的肉类。
Do you serve game like ostrich?
你们提供鸵鸟之类的游戏吗？
Or just like beef, chicken, goat?
或者只是像牛肉、鸡肉、山羊肉？
Right now we’re doing the beef, chicken, goat, but in our main restaurant in Carnivore, they offer all that.
现在我们正在做牛肉、鸡肉、山羊肉，但在我们位于 Carnivore 的主餐厅，他们提供所有这些。
They’ll add even the crocodiles.
他们甚至会添加鳄鱼。
Is goat your favorite meat?
山羊是你最喜欢的肉吗？
No, I’ll go with beef.
不，我要吃牛肉。
Beef?
牛肉？
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Goat is more traditional meat, right?
山羊是更传统的肉类，对吗？
Yes, sure.
是的，当然。
For ritual ceremony.
用于祭祀仪式。
Yes.
是的。
Older people prefer goat?
老年人更喜欢山羊？
Yes, I think they do because depending on the turn-up I see at work on a daily basis, many people prefer to go for the goat at that age.
是的，我认为他们这样做是因为根据我每天在工作中看到的情况，许多人更喜欢在那个年龄段去寻找山羊。
Do you like Indian food?
你喜欢印度菜吗？
I hate the spicy parts.
我讨厌辣的部分。
Too spicy?
太辣了？
Yes.
是的。
Maybe you don’t like it so much.
也许你不太喜欢它。
Yes.
是的。
COWEN: Do you like ugali?
COWEN：你喜欢乌加利吗？
Of course, I do.
当然，我愿意。
That’s the main, like, your staple food for breakfast?
这是你早餐的主要主食吗？
I wouldn’t say that.
我不会这么说。
I will say I’m more into rice, but I do love ugali because where I’m from, rice is readily available because we’re just around the Mwea region.
我会说我更喜欢米饭，但我确实喜欢乌加利，因为在我的家乡，米饭很容易买到，因为我们就在姆韦阿地区附近。
And that is where you get the best rice, the pishori rice.
在那里你可以买到最好的大米——皮绍里米。
That’s a little unusual for Kenya, right?
这对肯尼亚来说有点不寻常，对吧？
There’s more wheat here than rice overall?
这里的小麦比稻米还多？
True, but the region where I come from, there’s more rice.
确实如此，但我来自的地区有更多的大米。
More rice?
还要加米饭吗？
Yes.
是的。
That’s great.
那太棒了。
Have you ever had jollof rice from Nigeria or Ghana?
您吃过来自尼日利亚或加纳的 jollof 大米吗？
No, I haven’t.
不，我没有。
It’s a good dish.
这是一道好菜。
It’s hard to make, but they make it very well in Nigeria.
制作起来很困难，但他们在尼日利亚做得很好。
Okay.
好的。
The job you have, why did you take that job?
你所从事的工作，你为什么接受这份工作？
I took the job because, one, I’m passionate about the hospitality industry.
我接受这份工作是因为，第一，我对酒店业充满热情。
I love the way you go to a place that is not your own, and you meet different people, and you get to get a treatment that will make you remember the place and want to go back there over and over again.
我喜欢你去一个不属于你自己的地方，遇到不同的人，你得到的治疗会让你记住这个地方，并想一遍又一遍地回到那里。
Also in restaurants, that is where you find people mostly want to unwind about their days, so the people can be quite talkative, and it’s amazing.
同样在餐馆里，你会发现人们大多想放松一下自己的生活，所以人们可以很健谈，这真是太棒了。
You get to interact with different people from different places.
您可以与来自不同地方的不同人互动。
How ambitious are you?
你有多大的野心？
On a scale of 1 to 10, I will say an 8.5.
如果从 1 到 10 打分，我会说 8.5。
You want to own your own restaurant someday?
您想有一天拥有自己的餐厅吗？
Of course.
当然。
That would be a dream come true.
那将是梦想成真。
What kind of restaurant would it be?
那会是一家什么样的餐厅呢？
I want to go for a high-end restaurant.
我想去一家高档餐厅。
Yes.
是的。
It would be Kenyan food, yes?
这将是肯尼亚食物，是吗？
Or something else?
或者其他什么？
Food from your village, a lot of rice, or what’s your dream?
来自村庄的食物，大量的大米，或者你的梦想是什么？
I will have a mix-match of everything, more like giving the people what they want because from where I’m at, I can be able to see what it is that people love, what they like.
我会将所有东西混合搭配，更像是给人们他们想要的东西，因为从我所在的地方，我可以看到人们喜欢什么，他们喜欢什么。
I can visualize on that.
我可以想象这一点。
You think you’re a good people person, like very friendly, cooperative?
你认为你是一个善于交际的人，非常友好、合作？
Yes, I can say that about myself.
是的，我可以这么说我自己。
A good boss?
好老板？
Yes.
是的。
Are you good at getting mad at them and firing them if you need to fire them?
如果你需要解雇他们，你是否擅长对他们生气并解雇他们？
Oh, not the firing part.
哦，不是射击部分。
That one, I leave it to the big bosses.
这个，就交给大佬们吧。
If it’s your restaurant, you are the big boss.
如果这是你的餐厅，你就是大老板。
Yes.
是的。
I would say I love giving people chances before I am completely done.
我想说我喜欢在我完全完成之前给人们机会。
Why do you think the cost of living has become so much harder in Nairobi in the last few years?
您认为为什么过去几年内罗毕的生活成本变得如此困难？
The government.
政府。
COWEN: What do they do wrong?
考恩：他们做错了什么？
Everything.
一切。
I just have a million questions I would like to ask them, because the management controls everything, the government governs everything.
我只有一百万个问题想问他们，因为管理层控制着一切，政府管理着一切。
They’re the ones who are calling the shots.
他们是发号施令的人。
And right now what they’re doing, they’re pressing on people so much.
现在他们正在做的事情，给人们带来了很大的压力。
You don’t think they’re running the country that well?
你不认为他们把国家治理得那么好吗？
Yes.
是的。
Do you think it’s a question of voting for some other party, or you think deep structural changes are needed?
您认为这是一个投票给其他政党的问题，还是您认为需要进行深刻的结构性变革？
Both.
两个都。
A little bit of both.
两者都有一点。
We could use both because right now we need a complete change around the government.
我们可以同时使用两者，因为现在我们需要对政府进行彻底的改变。
We need to switch things up a bit so we can run smoothly like we used to a while back.
我们需要稍微改变一下，这样我们才能像以前一样顺利运行。
If people try to start a small business, do you think it’s very hard, they need to get a lot of permits, spend a lot of money, get licenses?
如果人们尝试创办一家小企业，你是否认为这非常困难，他们需要获得大量许可证，花很多钱，获得许可证？
Or is it easy?
或者这很容易吗？
If you went to start your restaurant, how hard would that be?
如果你去开一家餐馆，会有多难？
It will be a bit hard, I will say.
我会说，这会有点困难。
I actually try to start selling clothes a while back, sometime last year but one, and it was a bit hectic.
事实上，我不久前就尝试开始卖衣服，去年的某个时候，但有一次，当时有点忙。
One, reaching out to people.
一是深入群众。
Second, before finding a spot, and the permits, as you said.
其次，正如你所说，在找到地点和许可证之前。
You find the kanjo people, as they call them — they’re quite distracting for the people who are trying to start up their businesses.
你会发现“kanjo 人”（他们称之为“kanjo 人”）——他们会让那些试图创业的人分心。
Your clothing sales, was it from a physical store or online?
您的服装销售是来自实体店还是网上？
A physical.
一个物理的。
Physical store.
实体店。
I used to do physical.
我以前是做体力的。
And also WhatsApp used to help me a lot by then, reach out to my friends, reach out to people from school.
那时 WhatsApp 也给了我很多帮助，可以联系我的朋友，联系学校里的人。
You talk a lot on WhatsApp?
你在 WhatsApp 上聊得很多吗？
Yes, I do.
是的，我愿意。
Yes?
是的？
Yes.
是的。
You’re very extroverted?
你很外向吗？
Yes, I can be extroverted and introverted, because I’ll rather be indoors all day than go out and have fun.
是的，我可以外向，也可以内向，因为我宁愿整天待在室内，也不愿出去玩。
Why would you rather be indoors all day?
为什么你宁愿整天待在室内？
What’s your thought there?
你有什么想法？
I enjoy my company.
我喜欢我的陪伴。
Your own company?
你自己的公司？
Yes, and the movies — it’s the storyline for me.
是的，还有电影 ——这就是我的故事情节。
When I start a movie and I love the storyline, I just want to go with it till the very end.
当我开始看一部电影并且喜欢它的故事情节时，我只想坚持到最后。
What kind of movies do you like?
你喜欢什么类型的电影？
A little bit of everything.
一切都一点点。
It’s the storyline for me.
这就是我的故事情节。
If it’s drama, if it’s horror, if it’s a thriller, if it’s fantasy.
如果它是戏剧，如果它是恐怖，如果它是惊悚片，如果它是奇幻。
Is it Bollywood movie, Nollywood movie, Kenyan movie, US movie?
是宝莱坞电影、诺莱坞电影、肯尼亚电影、美国电影吗？
Hollywood, Nollywood, US.
好莱坞、诺莱坞、美国。
All of those?
所有这些？
Yes.
是的。
Do you have a favorite movie of some kind?
您有最喜欢的电影吗？
Right now what I’ve been following up on is Power.
现在我一直在关注的是Power。
Power.
力量。
Political power, or you mean just people who are strong?
政治权力，或者你指的是强者？
It’s the storyline for me because the Power started when I was quite a bit young, and I have seen the people who are acting grow till date, and they’re still doing it.
这对我来说是故事情节，因为权力在我还很年轻的时候就开始了，我看到表演者成长至今，而且他们仍在这样做。
I’ve seen them grow in that industry, and the storyline is quite captivating.
我见证了他们在这个行业的成长，故事情节也很吸引人。
You mean electrical power?
你说的是电功率吗？
No, no, no, no.
不，不，不，不。
Just political power.
只是政治权力。
Yes.
是的。
You like movies about political power?
你喜欢有关政治权力的电影吗？
Yes.
是的。
Do you think power corrupts people?
你认为权力会腐蚀人吗？
Oh, it sure does because when you really want the power, you have to go through extreme stuff.
哦，确实如此，因为当你真正想要力量时，你必须经历极端的事情。
The people who come out of that process, they care too much about power maybe.
从这个过程中走出来的人，也许他们太在乎权力了。
Yes.
是的。
You have a mobile smartphone, right?
您有智能手机，对吗？
Yes, I do.
是的，我愿意。
How much time do you spend on it?
你花多少时间在这上面？
Given that I work for like 10 hours in a day, I would say spend four, five hours maximum.
鉴于我一天工作大约 10 个小时，我想说最多工作四、五个小时。
You think that’s the right amount, too little, too much?
您认为这个量合适，太少，太多？
It’s too little sometimes because when I’m tired from work, sometimes I don’t even look at my phone.
有时太少了，因为当我工作累了时，有时我什至不看手机。
I just want to get to bed and sleep.
我只想上床睡觉。
It makes you happy when you do it?
当你这样做的时候，你会感到高兴吗？
Yes, it does.
是的，确实如此。
What kind of phone do you have?
您有什么类型的手机？
I have a Tecno Spark 8C.
我有一台 Tecno Spark 8C。
That’s Android system or what?
那是安卓系统还是什么？
Yes, it is.
是的。
Where is it made?
它是在哪里制造的？
China?
中国？
Yes.
是的。
Yes?
是的？
Yes.
是的。
Do you see a big Chinese influence in Nairobi?
您认为中国在内罗毕的影响力很大吗？
Yes, I can say that.
是的，我可以这么说。
How do you think that’s going?
你认为进展如何？
For me, I don’t think I have much to say about it.
对于我来说，我认为我对此没什么可说的。
I’m just happy everybody’s trying to find their way because when they come and they make things a bit cheaper for us, that is exactly what we need.
我很高兴每个人都在努力寻找自己的方式，因为当他们到来时，他们会让我们的东西便宜一点，这正是我们所需要的。
They help create jobs, right?
他们帮助创造就业机会，对吗？
Yes, they do.
是的，他们确实这么做了。
By investing…
通过投资...
Have you ever been to America?
你去过美国吗？
No, I haven’t.
不，我没有。
What’s your main impression of it from what you see?
从你所看到的来看，你对它的主要印象是什么？
You can tell the truth.
你可以说实话。
I won’t be offended.
我不会生气。
I think it’s a nice place, but I will say the blending in — or do I say fitting in — before you actually do familiarize yourself with everything that goes on around, that could be quite a challenge.
我认为这是一个不错的地方，但我会说融入 ——或者我说融入 —— 在你真正熟悉周围发生的一切之前，这可能是一个相当大的挑战。
Do you think we’re crazy?
你认为我们疯了吗？
Sometimes when you all go out on the Black people, yes.
有时当你们都出面攻击黑人时，是的。
Do you think we don’t respect our parents enough?
你认为我们还不够尊重父母吗？
No, I wouldn’t say that because it’s all about the upbringing, and it happens in every place, different countries.
不，我不会这么说，因为这完全与成长有关，而且它发生在每个地方、不同的国家。
The race problems in America, what do you think they come from?
美国的种族问题，你认为是从何而来？
Technology.
技术。
How so technology?
怎么这么有技术？
Because your technology is more advanced.
因为你们的技术更先进。
It is way, way more advanced than it is in other places.
它比其他地方先进得多。
You think that increases racism in some ways?
您认为这在某些方面加剧了种族主义？
Not really, but the platforms, the fact that nobody knows who’s talking to who, it makes people have the courage to speak out what they want, and not everything that they do speak out is good.
不是真的，但是平台，没有人知道谁在和谁说话，这让人们有勇气说出自己想说的话，但并不是他们说出来的一切都是好的。
Then they become worse maybe over time because they’re saying too much.
随着时间的推移，他们可能会变得更糟，因为他们说得太多了。
True.
真的。
Including messaging services or online.
包括消息服务或在线服务。
Yes.
是的。
Do you think the world will fix that problem, or what do you expect?
您认为世界会解决这个问题吗？或者您有何期望？
The world can fix it, but it all starts with an individual because once you want to change it and you influence the people you are hanging out with or the people you have around, it goes like that.
世界可以解决它，但这一切都从个人开始，因为一旦你想改变它并且你影响了与你一起出去玩的人或你周围的人，事情就会像这样。
And maybe with time, we might see some changes.
也许随着时间的推移，我们可能会看到一些变化。
Are you an optimist about Kenya?
您对肯尼亚持乐观态度吗？
Yes, I am.
我是。
Do you think you’ll live here your whole life, or you’ll try to go to Italy or somewhere else?
你认为你会在这里度过一生，还是会尝试去意大利或其他地方？
I wouldn’t mind traveling, but Kenya is the place I would like to be.
我不介意旅行，但肯尼亚是我想去的地方。
For living, Kenya is the place to be, but I would like to visit other places.
对于生活来说，肯尼亚是一个不错的地方，但我想去其他地方。
You like the climate here?
你喜欢这里的气候吗？
Everything about Kenya is amazing.
肯尼亚的一切都令人惊叹。
The people, the food.
人，食物。
Yes, especially the food.
是的，尤其是食物。
Not the Indian food.
不是印度菜。
MURIITHI: Not the Indian food.
MURIITHI：不是印度菜。
In the food, have you seen that change in your lifetime?
在食物方面，你一生中见过这样的变化吗？
For the food?
为了食物？
Yes.
是的。
You’ve been in Nairobi 12 years.
您在内罗毕已经 12 年了。
How is it changing?
变化如何？
It is changing quite a lot because, with time, the people are forgetting about the indigenous foods that we used to get at home.
它正在发生很大的变化，因为随着时间的推移，人们逐渐忘记了我们过去在家里吃的本土食物。
Right now around Nairobi, given that it’s more of a residential place, you don’t find a lot of places where people want to grow their stuff.
现在在内罗毕周围，考虑到它更多的是一个住宅区，你找不到很多地方可以让人们种植自己的东西。
The thought of getting them from the villages and transporting them to where you are can be quite hectic because some will spoil on the way.
把它们从村庄运到你所在的地方可能会很忙，因为有些会在途中变质。
Their budget may be just not pocket-friendly.
他们的预算可能不太合算。
People are more reliable on the junk food parts around Nairobi than it is around the village areas.
与乡村地区相比，人们对内罗毕周围的垃圾食品更加可靠。
Do people here think about the British much?
这里的人很想念英国人吗？
This was once a British colony.
这里曾经是英国殖民地。
Is that an important issue, or you’ve all forgotten?
这是一个重要的问题，还是你们都忘记了？
History taught us a lot about what happened in the past, but with time, we have seen the changes, and by now people have adjusted to the day-to-day living.
历史告诉我们很多过去发生的事情，但随着时间的推移，我们看到了变化，现在人们已经适应了日常生活。
Do you think being a British colony was good for Kenya or bad for Kenya?
您认为成为英国殖民地对肯尼亚来说是好事还是坏事？
Not so good.
不太好。
It is an in-between because we all had something to learn.
这是一个介于两者之间的因素，因为我们都有东西要学。
The Christianity mode came along that time.
基督教模式就是在那个时候出现的。
At least we got to learn something from them.
至少我们要向他们学习一些东西。
They treated people here very badly, yes?
他们对待这里的人非常恶劣，是吗？
Yes, they did.
是的，他们做到了。
Do you go to church?
你去教堂吗？
I do.
我愿意。
Christian?
基督教？
Yes.
是的。
Which branch?
哪个分行？
I’m a Catholic.
我是天主教徒。
What makes Catholic appealing to you?
是什么让天主教对您有吸引力？
The unity.
团结。
There’s not as much diversity as it is in the Protestants.
没有新教徒那么多的多样性。
Because whatever is being taught in the American church is whatever is being taught in the village church.
因为美国教会所教导的就是乡村教会所教导的。
We have the same Bibles, the same readings, scriptures for every Sunday.
我们每个星期日都有相同的圣经、相同的读物和经文。
It’s programmed that so long as you’re in the Catholic , you’re getting the same information.
它的程序规定，只要你是天主教徒，你就会得到相同的信息。
Do you think fewer Kenyans are going to church than before?
您认为去教堂的肯尼亚人比以前少了吗？
Yes, I will say that.
是的，我会这么说。
That concerns you, or you think it’s okay?
这让你担心，或者你认为这样可以吗？
It does concern me because I’m also affected.
这确实让我担心，因为我也受到了影响。
Because I work six days in a week, and Sunday is one of the busiest days.
因为我一周工作六天，周日是最忙的日子之一。
You can never get an off day on Sunday.
周日你永远不可能休息。
Personally, for me, I will say it has affected Kenyans a lot, work-wise.
就我个人而言，我会说这对肯尼亚人的工作影响很大。
Yes.
是的。
If you marry someone, you want your husband to be religious, Catholic, or it doesn’t matter so much?
如果你嫁给某人，你希望你的丈夫信教、天主教，或者这并不重要？
It doesn’t matter so much.
这并不重要。
Just if he’s a good person?
只要他是个好人？
Yes.
是的。
There’s this cult in the south of Kenya, Paul Mackenzie.
肯尼亚南部有一个邪教，保罗·麦肯齐 (Paul Mackenzie)。
I read about this in the newspapers.
我在报纸上读到了这件事。
How do you understand that?
你怎么理解这一点？
What’s your sense of what happened there?
您对那里发生的事情有何感想？
That’s a tricky and interesting topic at the same time.
这是一个棘手又有趣的话题。
But I really don’t get what teaching it is that these people are getting, to the extent that they can go and undergo the fasting session and their leader is not undergoing the same thing.
但我真的不明白这些人正在接受什么教导，以至于他们可以去接受禁食，而他们的领袖却没有经历同样的事情。
That is something that is controversial.
这是有争议的事情。
It is weird.
这很奇怪。
I’m not in support of it.
我不支持它。
Yes, we’ve had things like that happen in America, of course.
是的，当然，我们在美国也发生过类似的事情。
What do you think of women’s rights in Kenya?
您如何看待肯尼亚的妇女权利？
Are they strong enough?
他们足够强大吗？
Yes, they are.
是的，他们是。
How could women be treated better?
女性如何才能得到更好的待遇？
Nothing, I will say, that is not being done right now.
我会说，现在没有什么事情是没有做的。
You think it’s really pretty good?
你觉得真的很不错吗？
Yes, it is, because in terms of leadership, we are given equal rights.
是的，是的，因为在领导方面，我们被赋予了平等的权利。
In terms of speaking our minds, it’s allowed.
就说出我们的想法而言，这是允许的。
I think it’s quite okay.
我觉得还可以。
You just need to work your way up to the top.
你只需要努力爬到顶峰即可。
Then women, you think, have the same chances as men?
那么你认为女性与男性有相同的机会吗？
Yes, they do.
是的，他们确实这么做了。
Yes.
是的。
Are you worried about any of Kenya’s neighbors, so either Somalia, Ethiopia, a lot of fighting?
你是否担心肯尼亚的任何邻国，比如索马里、埃塞俄比亚，是否有很多战斗？
Does this concern you, or it feels very distant?
这是否让你担心，或者感觉很遥远？
I wouldn’t say it’s distant because every Kenyan is a human.
我不会说这很遥远，因为每个肯尼亚人都是人。
I believe, so long as no one is trying to attack the other one and we are all trying to live in peace, everything is going to work out quite fine.
我相信，只要没有人试图攻击对方，并且我们都努力和平相处，一切都会顺利进行。
Because it’s all about the peace and the humanity and the friendship between the countries.
因为这事关和平、人性以及各国之间的友谊。
That’s a very Catholic view, right?
这是一个非常天主教的观点，对吧？
Yes, it is.
是的。
Kenya takes in a lot of refugees.
肯尼亚接纳了大量难民。
How do you think that is going?
你认为进展如何？
I’m not sure how that is going to be going in the next few weeks or months because, with the GMO cut-outs, I don’t know how that is going to work out.
我不确定接下来几周或几个月会发生什么，因为随着转基因生物的削减，我不知道这将如何进行。
How’s it working out with Uganda as a neighbor?
与乌干达为邻关系如何？
I don’t know how they handle it.
我不知道他们如何处理。
I haven’t read much about it, but if they’re doing okay, I think that’s good.
我还没有读到太多相关内容，但如果他们做得不错，我认为那就很好。
Do you worry that Kenya is better run than most or all of its neighbors and that you will receive a lot of problems through your borders?
您是否担心肯尼亚比其大多数或所有邻国管理得更好，并且您会在边境遇到很多问题？
No.
不。
You just think Kenya will be safe, it’s strong enough?
你只是认为肯尼亚会安全、足够强大吗？
No, but I wouldn’t say the management in Kenya is quite as good as our neighbors around.
不，但我不会说肯尼亚的管理与我们周围的邻居一样好。
I would say we’re all working our way to try to improve lives around.
我想说，我们都在努力改善周围的生活。
What would you do to improve the schools here?
你会做些什么来改善这里的学校？
The schools?
学校？
Curriculum.
课程。
What would you change?
你会改变什么？
I’ll take it back to the 8–4–4 system.
我会把它带回8-4-4系统。
What is that system?
那个系统是什么？
Right now, what they’re doing, it’s called the CBC .
现在，他们正在做的事情叫做 CBC 。
They have a variety of things they’re teaching in schools, some that were not even teachable before.
他们在学校教授各种各样的东西，有些甚至是以前无法教的。
They’re even teaching PE in schools nowadays.
如今他们甚至在学校教授体育课。
That’s good, you think, or no?
你认为这很好，或者不是？
It is okay, but right now what people need is to go on with what they used to do.
没关系，但现在人们需要的是继续他们以前所做的事情。
You mean stricter?
你的意思是更严格？
More math, more reading and writing?
更多数学，更多阅读和写作？
Yes.
是的。
Just to make sure everyone can read and write very well?
只是为了确保每个人都能很好地阅读和写作吗？
Yes, I will say that.
是的，我会这么说。
How good do you think your school was?
你认为你的学校有多好？
I have been in different schools in primary and in secondary, I was in one.
我在小学和中学读过不同的学校，但我在一所学校。
But schools were — how do I say it?
但学校 —— 怎么说呢？
It all depends with the schools because we have the public sector and the private sectors, and the two can never match.
这完全取决于学校，因为我们有公共部门和私营部门，而两者永远无法匹配。
Cannot match or even come close.
无法匹配甚至接近。
Which is better?
哪个更好？
It is not better, but it is okay.
虽然不是更好，但也还好。
The private, the public — which of those two kinds of school gives you the better education?
私立学校、公立学校——这两种学校中哪一种可以为你提供更好的教育？
The private, of course.
当然是私人的。
Private?
私人的？
Yes.
是的。
How is it you ended up curious?
你怎么会好奇呢？
From your family, from a teacher, you were born that way?
从你的家庭，从你的老师，你生来就是这样的吗？
For me I just wanted to see more than just what was around me, and coming to Nairobi was the best thing.
对我来说，我只想看看周围的一切，而来到内罗毕是最好的事情。
If you were to travel somewhere else but in Africa, where would you want to go the most?
如果你要去非洲以外的其他地方旅行，你最想去哪里？
In Africa?
在非洲？
I’ll go with Uganda.
我会和乌干达一起去。
Yes.
是的。
Why Uganda?
为什么是乌干达？
It’s just a thing about Uganda and the way of living there.
这只是关于乌干达和那里的生活方式的问题。
It’s not as expensive.
没那么贵。
The people seem very friendly when I meet them other places.
当我在其他地方遇到人们时，他们看起来非常友好。
Yes.
是的。
You have that impression?
你有这样的印象吗？
Yes, people can be friendly, but it all depends on the approach.
是的，人们可以友好，但这完全取决于方法。
If you think of visiting somewhere in Asia, where do you think of going?
如果您想去亚洲某个地方，您会想到哪里？
In Asia?
在亚洲？
That’s a funny one.
这很有趣。
Let’s see.
让我们来看看。
That’s a tricky one.
这是一个棘手的问题。
I’ll have to research on that.
我得对此进行研究。
When COVID came here, how bad was that for you?
当新冠病毒来到这里时，对你来说有多糟糕？
You couldn’t go outside, you couldn’t meet with friends?
不能出门，不能见朋友吗？
Or how was it, or maybe not so different?
或者情况如何，或者也许并没有那么不同？
How would you describe it?
你会如何描述它？
It was quite hard, and it actually delayed my school year.
这非常困难，而且实际上耽误了我的学年。
I had to extend time in school comparing to what I would have.
与我本来应该有的时间相比，我不得不延长在学校的时间。
It was tough.
这很艰难。
It was tough times.
那是一段艰难的时期。
Do you think the country is over that?
你认为这个国家已经结束了吗？
Not really.
并不真地。
Not really?
并不真地？
Yes.
是的。
People are still depressed or upset or frustrated?
人们仍然感到沮丧、不安或沮丧吗？
Yes, people right now are trying to find their way back because COVID really, really affected a bunch of people.
是的，人们现在正在努力寻找回归之路，因为新冠病毒确实影响了很多人。
Many people became jobless.
许多人失业了。
Relating with one another became an issue because of the social distancing.
由于社交距离，彼此之间的联系成为一个问题。
You stayed here, or you went back to your home place?
你留在这里，还是回老家？
Actually did both.
事实上两者都做到了。
I went back to my place, but I also came back to Nairobi.
我回到了我的住处，但我也回到了内罗毕。
In your village, do you see large animals very often?
在你的村庄里，你经常看到大型动物吗？
Yes.
是的。
You see lions, elephants, giraffes?
你看到狮子、大象、长颈鹿吗？
We do have elephants, we do have hyenas.
我们确实有大象，我们确实有鬣狗。
Not all the animals are there, but we do have some of them.
并不是所有的动物都在那里，但我们确实有一些。
You’ve seen them so many times you’re not excited, or you’re still excited when you see them?
你已经看过很多次了，你并不兴奋，还是当你看到它们时，你仍然兴奋？
It’s exciting because you’re not used to seeing them on a daily basis, and it’s always fascinating to see animals.
这很令人兴奋，因为你不习惯每天看到它们，而且看到动物总是很有趣。
Are any of them dangerous for you?
其中任何一个对您来说有危险吗？
Yes, they are.
是的，他们是。
Our place is near Mount Kenya, like I said, and sometimes they run away from the forests and they’re coming to people’s shambas to eat, so it can be a bit scary.
正如我所说，我们的地方靠近肯尼亚山，有时它们会逃离森林，来到人们的香巴斯吃饭，所以可能有点可怕。
Which one is the most scary?
哪一个最可怕？
The elephants all the way.
大象一路走来。
Because they’re so big and strong and they might just step on you.
因为它们又大又强壮，可能会踩到你。
They’re fast.
他们很快。
These things can chase you so fast.
这些东西可以这么快地追赶你。
Yes.
是的。
Are the hippos scary?
河马可怕吗？
Yes, they are.
是的，他们是。
They are scary, but you don’t get to see so many of those around Kirinyaga.
它们很可怕，但你在基里尼亚加周围看不到那么多。
There’s just a lot more elephants?
大象还有很多吗？
Yes.
是的。
How do you think your village is doing?
您觉得你们村的情况如何？
In terms of its economy, are people getting richer, happier, or do you think it’s stuck?
就经济而言，人们是变得更富有、更幸福，还是你认为经济陷入停滞？
It’s stuck.
它被卡住了。
I have been there a couple of times, and I can’t say I have seen as many changes as I would expect to see in that span of years.
我去过那里几次，但我不能说我在这几年里看到了我所期望的那么多变化。
Why do you think it’s stuck?
为什么你认为它被卡住了？
The curious people leave?
好奇的人走了吗？
Yes, that is one.
是的，就是这样一个。
The people are a bit close-minded about opening up their minds to things.
人们对事物的开放态度有点封闭。
They make it more superstitious than it should be.
他们让它变得比应有的更加迷信。
They don’t have so much Christianity, they have older beliefs?
他们没有那么多基督教信仰，他们有更古老的信仰？
Yes, I will say that.
是的，我会这么说。
What would be something they might believe in?
他们可能相信什么？
Let me say, in case you’re having disputes — or, let’s see, one, when you see an owl, they say that somebody’s going to die or something.
让我说，万一你们有争议——或者，让我们想想，当你看到一只猫头鹰时，他们会说有人要死了或者什么的。
Right?
正确的？
Yes.
是的。
They believe it?
他们相信吗？
Yes.
是的。
Sometimes it actually happens, weirdly enough.
有时它确实会发生，而且很奇怪。
How much of your village is Christian?
你们村里有多少人信奉基督教？
Everybody.
大家。
They blend Christian and the earlier beliefs together?
他们将基督教和早期的信仰融合在一起？
Yes.
是的。
How are women’s rights in your village, do you think?
您认为你们村的妇女权益如何？
The people have not opened up their mind as they should, like I said.
正如我所说，人们没有应有的开放思想。
For the women around that place, it’s more of like a home-based thing.
对于那个地方的女性来说，这更像是一个以家庭为基础的事情。
Not many of them go out to look for jobs or even want to do much about studies.
他们中没有多少人出去找工作，甚至不想做太多的学习。
They just know they should stick around at home to help their husbands and all and raise children.
她们只知道自己应该留在家里帮助丈夫和所有人并抚养孩子。
Not so much opportunity?
没有那么多机会吗？
Yes.
是的。
Nairobi is much better, you think?
你认为内罗毕好多了？
Yes, it is.
是的。
Yes?
是的？
Yes.
是的。
You think you’ll always live in or near Nairobi?
您认为您会一直住在内罗毕或其附近吗？
“Always” could be a tough term but —
“永远”可能是一个艰难的词，但是——
But mostly.
但大多数情况下。
Yes.
是的。
What do you see of Tatu City?
你对塔图市有什么看法？
You work there, right?
你在那里工作，对吗？
Yes.
是的。
You’re optimistic?
你乐观吗？
Yes, I am.
我是。
Very much so.
非常如此。
You see a lot of progress, jobs coming, people visiting.
你会看到很多进步，工作机会到来，人们来访。
Yes.
是的。
Like, see, I got a chance to meet you.
就像，看，我有机会见到你。
Yes.
是的。
COWEN: Maybe your restaurant will be in Tatu City sometime.
COWEN：也许你的餐厅有一天会在塔图市。
Yes, maybe.
是的，也许吧。
Hopefully.
希望如此。
Will you encourage your brother to move here?
你会鼓励你的兄弟搬到这里吗？
Yes, I will.
是的，我会。
You think he might?
你认为他可能吗？
Yes, he is very much interested.
是的，他非常感兴趣。
Did you or he ever think of moving to Mombasa or some smaller city?
您或他是否想过搬到蒙巴萨或其他较小的城市？
Or you just think it has to be Nairobi because it’s the best, the biggest?
或者您只是认为必须是内罗毕，因为它是最好、最大的？
It’s all about giving a place a chance because coming to Kiambu for me — I mostly came because of school around the Kiambu Institute, and me moving to Tatu City was closer to school and still closer to where I work.
这一切都是为了给我一个机会，因为对我来说来到 Kiambu —— 我来这里主要是因为 Kiambu 学院附近的学校，而我搬到 Tatu 市离学校更近，离我工作的地方也更近。
What is Kiambu Institute?
基安布研究所是什么？
It’s along Kiambu Road.
它位于 Kiambu 路沿线。
It’s a college.
这是一所大学。
What is it they teach?
他们教什么？
I would say more of the physical stuff.
我会说更多物理上的东西。
They have business courses.
他们有商业课程。
Like how to build things?
比如如何建造东西？
Yes.
是的。
We also have the hospitality there.
我们在那里也受到热情款待。
They do teach hospitality.
他们确实教授待客之道。
You studied hospitality?
你学的是酒店管理吗？
No, I haven’t.
不，我没有。
You want to, or you think you know enough already?
您想要，或者您认为您已经了解得足够多了？
I wouldn’t mind to because it is something that I am passionate about, but what I did in school was the procurement, the supply chain management.
我不介意，因为这是我热衷的事情，但我在学校做的是采购、供应链管理。
What did you learn from that?
你从中学到了什么？
There’s a lot, and there’s procurement in almost everything.
有很多，而且几乎所有东西都有采购。
Be it hospitals, be it companies, be it the hotels, be it schools, procurement is everywhere.
无论是医院、企业、酒店、学校，采购无处不在。
It’s fascinating how people do that.
人们如何做到这一点真是令人着迷。
Do you think you need a degree in hospitality to advance further, or you think you can advance just with experience?
您认为您需要获得酒店管理学位才能进一步晋升，还是您认为仅凭经验即可晋升？
School is important.
学校很重要。
The school bit is important because the papers will also help a great deal.
学校的部分很重要，因为论文也会有很大帮助。
It all narrows down to what you learn on the ground because mostly what is in the books is not what normally happens in the places of work.
这一切都缩小到你在实地学到的东西，因为书本上的大部分内容并不是工作场所通常发生的事情。
It’s very different.
这是非常不同的。
Do you think you’ll go back to school, or it’s too much a waste of time?
你认为你会回到学校，还是太浪费时间了？
I will go back to school, but first I want to learn more.
我会回到学校，但首先我想了解更多。
Learn more on the job?
在工作中了解更多？
Yes.
是的。
What kinds of things do you want to learn?
你想学习什么类型的东西？
Interacting with people sure takes a lot of courage and humility because not everybody is quite friendly.
与人交往确实需要很大的勇气和谦逊，因为并不是每个人都非常友好。
Some people just come, like I said, they want to unwind their days, and sometimes they’re not that good because they can be harsh at times.
有些人只是来，就像我说的，他们想放松一下自己的生活，有时他们并不那么好，因为他们有时会很严厉。
That part is something that I would really like to impound on, the humility part, because it’s a bit tricky, I will say that.
这部分是我真正想保留的部分，即谦逊部分，因为它有点棘手，我会这么说。
What questions might you have for me?
您可能有什么问题要问我？
How do you like it in Kenya so far?
到目前为止，您在肯尼亚感觉怎么样？
This is only my second day.
这只是我的第二天。
So far, I like it very much.
到目前为止，我非常喜欢它。
The green vistas are very beautiful.
绿色的景色非常美丽。
This part of Kenya is quite peaceful.
肯尼亚的这个地区非常安静。
I’ve had very good food.
我吃过非常好的食物。
It’s been good to see Stephen again, but most of it I haven’t seen.
很高兴再次见到斯蒂芬，但大部分我都没见过。
I’m going on safari in a bit.
一会儿我要去狩猎。
My wife is coming tomorrow, and she will join me here.
我妻子明天会来，她会和我一起来这里。
I want to come back sometime and see the coast, see the north.
我想有一天回来看看海岸，看看北方。
This time I will only see around here and then safari.
这次我只会在这里看看，然后再去野生动物园。
Okay.
好的。
People are very friendly here, and it feels easy to me.
这里的人们都很友好，我感觉很轻松。
Okay, that is great.
好吧，那太好了。
For food, what is one thing that you would like to try, maybe the meat?
对于食物，您想尝试什么，也许是肉？
I once visited Tanzania, and I very much liked the ugali.
我曾经去过坦桑尼亚，非常喜欢乌加利。
COWEN: Now, I don’t know if it’s the same here.
COWEN：现在，我不知道这里是否也一样。
But I go to these meals, and Westerners, they feed me everything but ugali.
但我去吃这些饭菜，而西方人，他们给我吃除了乌加利之外的所有东西。
So I hope I can get some more ugali.
所以我希望我能得到更多的乌加利。
Oh, sure.
哦，当然。
You can pass by Roast and you’ll be sure to get some.
你可以路过Roast，一定会得到一些。
Okay, but unlike you, I like Indian food.
好吧，但与你不同的是，我喜欢印度菜。
I like very spicy.
我非常喜欢辣。
We have the spicy part too.
我们也有辣的部分。
Yes?
是的？
Yes.
是的。
I will do that.
我会这么做的。
On safari, I’m not sure what they serve me, but I think I have no choice.
在狩猎之旅中，我不确定他们为我提供什么，但我想我别无选择。
MURIITHI: Yes, but sure, since you’re in Tatu City, you might pass by Roast.
MURIITHI：是的，但是当然，既然你在塔图市，你可能会路过 Roast。
We’ll give you the ugali.
我们会给你乌加利。
Okay.
好的。
Great.
伟大的。
Okay.
好的。
If you think about America, what is it you wonder about America?
如果你想到美国，你对美国感到好奇的是什么？
About America is their way of living, their education, how they know so much at a very young age.
关于美国是他们的生活方式、他们的教育以及他们如何在很小的时候就知道这么多。
They’re also quite friendly.
他们也很友好。
Americans, they’re pretty direct, fairly open, I think.
我认为美国人非常直接、相当开放。
Yes.
是的。
Final question, what is the next thing that you want to learn?
最后一个问题，你接下来想学什么？
What is the next thing I want to learn?
接下来我想学什么？
You know, right now, the way the country is evolving, I believe it’s all about gaining a skill.
你知道，现在这个国家正在发展的方式，我相信这一切都是为了获得技能。
You need to have a skill because employment, the deductions are getting worse, and you’d rather be self-employed than be an employee.
你需要有一技之长，因为就业、扣除越来越严重，你宁愿做个体户也不愿做雇员。
For the skills, I would like to learn more about technology.
对于技能，我想更多地了解技术。
I don’t want to be left behind; I want to learn more.
我不想被抛在后面；我想了解更多。
Do you use ChatGPT, by the way?
顺便问一下，你使用 ChatGPT 吗？
Oh, yes, I do.
哦，是的，我愿意。
COWEN: What do you do with it?
考恩：你用它做什么？
I have another few more questions, then.
那么我还有几个问题。
I learned about ChatGPT through a YouTube channel, and also I have colleagues who are so much impressed by it.
我通过 YouTube 频道了解了 ChatGPT，我的同事也对它印象深刻。
I just like the way it makes work easier for everybody, but it also poses as a threat because once you’re getting the AI to do all that stuff for you, you might not need the employees as you do.
我只是喜欢它让每个人工作更轻松的方式，但它也构成了威胁，因为一旦你让人工智能为你做所有这些事情，你可能不需要像你一样的员工。
Do you talk with it?
你和它说话吗？
Does it write poems for you?
它为你写诗吗？
Do you ask it questions?
你会问它问题吗？
Yes.
是的。
All of those.
所有这些。
Yes, when I have burning questions, when I want to know something, because when you‘’re in the night shift, I will say I‘’m not much of a newspaper person or news, so ChatGPT is my way to go.
是的，当我有紧迫的问题时，当我想知道一些事情时，因为当你上夜班时，我会说我不太像报纸人或新闻，所以 ChatGPT 是我的选择。
Just more fun.
只是更有趣。
Yes.
是的。
ChatGPT and TikTok.
ChatGPT 和 TikTok。
Harriet Muriithi—
哈丽特·穆里斯——
Yes.
是的。
— thank you very much.
- 非常感谢。
You’re welcome.
不客气。
Thank you, too, for having me.
也谢谢你邀请我。
It’s a pleasure.
我的荣幸。