Dave Rubin on Digital Media, Crowdfunding, and Comedy (BONUS - Live)

I was talking to my Law in Literature class a few days ago and I told them I would be doing a podcast with Dave Rubin.

几天前，我在文学法律课上讲话，我告诉他们我将和戴夫·鲁宾一起做一个播客。

And it's striking that everyone in the class but one person knew who he was.

令人惊讶的是，除了一个人之外，班上的每个人都知道他是谁。

So if you think about today's world, if you have a well-known YouTube channel or a well-known podcast, it's actually more intellectual influence than most television shows, if you think in terms of viewership, but also if you think in terms of quality of viewership or who is likely to be influential.

因此，如果你想想当今的世界，如果你有一个著名的 YouTube 频道或一个著名的播客，它实际上比大多数电视节目更具智力影响力，如果你考虑收视率，而且如果你考虑收视率的质量或谁可能有影响力。

So Dave, you've been doing these podcasts, you used to have your own radio show.

戴夫，你一直在做这些播客，你曾经有自己的广播节目。

Presumably you prefer the podcasts.

想必您更喜欢播客。

What about podcasting as a medium do you find so dynamic and so useful?

您认为播客作为一种媒介如此充满活力且如此有用吗？

First off, can I get the name of the kid that didn't know me, 'cause we'd have to take care of that.

首先，我能知道那个不认识我的孩子的名字吗，因为我们必须处理这个问题。

He knows you now.

他现在认识你了。

Alright, he knows me now, so that's good.

好吧，他现在认识我了，那就好。

Well, first, I'm really looking forward to this because it's nice being on the other side of the interview every now and again and getting to judge your questions to me the way that Twitter judges my questions to other people.

嗯，首先，我真的很期待这一点，因为时不时地站在面试的另一边，并像 Twitter 判断我向其他人提出的问题一样判断你向我提出的问题，这真是太好了。

Yeah, I did stand up in New York for 12 years.

是的，我确实在纽约站了12年。

I stood on street corners six nights a week for two hours a night for many, many years just in Time Square.

多年来，我每周有六个晚上站在街角，每晚两个小时，就在时代广场。

I'm sure you guys have all been harassed by those people, I was one of them.

相信大家都被这些人骚扰过，我也是其中之一。

And I felt that stand up it was great, but it only existed in that room.

我觉得站起来很棒，但它只存在于那个房间里。

You could kill or bomb and, regardless, people didn't know how to find you after or they couldn't remember, “Oh, he's the sixth white guy after four hours of whatever.” A middle-aged guy with brown hair you can't remember no matter how funny you were or whatever.

你可以杀人或轰炸，无论如何，人们不知道如何找到你，或者他们不记得，“哦，他是四个小时后的第六个白人。”一个棕色头发的中年男人，无论你多么有趣或其他什么，你都无法记住。

So I remember thinking like, “I've gotta make a move out of this.

所以我记得当时的想法是：“我必须采取行动摆脱这一切。

I've gotta figure out something.” Actually, I started a podcast very early on, before anyone knew what podcasts were.

我得想办法。”事实上，我很早就开始播客了，当时还没有人知道什么是播客。

I quite literally had a podcast where I did not know how to download a podcast at the time.

我确实有一个播客，当时我不知道如何下载播客。

I was doing it with my on-air partner, he knew how to do it, he said, “Let's try this thing.” And eventually it became so successful I got on Sirius XM and I was over there for a couple years.

我和我的直播搭档一起做这件事，他知道该怎么做，他说，“让我们试试这个吧。”最终它变得如此成功，我登上了 Sirius XM，并在那里呆了几年。

Then that led to what I'm doing now.

然后这导致了我现在所做的事情。

But you have a bigger audience now on your own…

但现在你自己就有了更多的观众……

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

Getting on YouTube and everything in the digital space, it's incredible.

访问 YouTube 以及数字空间中的所有内容，这真是令人难以置信。

My policy is I don't care where people listen or where they watch or how they consume it or how much they watch.

我的政策是，我不在乎人们在哪里听、在哪里看、如何消费或观看多少。

Some people watch for a few minutes then download the full audio.

有些人观看几分钟然后下载完整的音频。

We put up our hour-and-a-half long interviews and some people watch that whole thing or listen to that whole thing, some people just want five-minute clips.

我们进行了一个半小时的采访，有些人观看或聆听整个采访，有些人只想要五分钟的剪辑。

So to me it's like we create something and then however they get it, I'm fine with that.

所以对我来说，就像我们创造了一些东西，然后无论他们得到它，我都同意。

Why is it that so many successful podcasts are relatively long?

为什么这么多成功的播客都比较长？

So we've done very well with hour-long podcasts or sometimes even 90-minute podcasts.

因此，我们在长达一小时的播客，有时甚至是 90 分钟的播客方面做得非常好。

It's counter-intuitive.

这是违反直觉的。

You might think the internet you want short bits, everything should be five or seven minutes.

您可能认为互联网需要简短的内容，一切都应该是五到七分钟。

But podcasts, it almost seems the longer they are, Serial, a lot of those episodes are fairly long.

但是播客，似乎它们的时间越长，连续剧，很多剧集都相当长。

What's your intuition there?

你的直觉是什么？

As we have thinking people in this room and I suspect most of your audience is thinking people, I think you'll be happy to know that I really believe that there is a rubber band effect happening right now.

由于我们在这个房间里有善于思考的人，而且我怀疑你们的大多数观众都是善于思考的人，我想你们会很高兴知道我真的相信现在正在发生橡皮筋效应。

We've been so bludgeoned with short form stuff.

我们已经被简短的东西击垮了。

Vine or six second videos and Snapchat and Twitter's 140 characters and this endless assault on thinking, because you can only have this tiny chunk to say anything.

Vine 或六秒视频、Snapchat 和 Twitter 的 140 个字符以及对思维的无休止的攻击，因为你只能用这一小块来表达任何内容。

So I actually think in the last… I think it's really started in the last year or so, there's really a movement, people are willing to give you their time if you give them something good.

所以我实际上认为在过去......我认为这确实是在去年左右开始的，确实有一场运动，如果你给他们一些好的东西，人们愿意给你时间。

So conversations like you have and like Serial and a bunch of other things, they're allowing people to stop the noise.

因此，像您这样的对话以及串行和其他一些东西，它们可以让人们停止噪音。

Because I think that's what's happening, people, even when I was on the flight here, I was watching the guy next to me on his iPad just go through his Facebook feed and it's half political stuff and half babies and half cats, that's three halves, but it was just a long feed.

因为我认为这就是正在发生的事情，伙计们，即使当我在飞机上时，我也在看着我旁边的那个人在他的 iPad 上浏览他的 Facebook 信息，其中一半是政治内容，一半是婴儿，一半是猫，这是三部分，但这只是一个很长的信息。

People are just inundated and they don't know where to put their attention, so I think a certain amount of people are finding long form now.

人们只是被淹没了，他们不知道该把注意力放在哪里，所以我认为现在有一部分人正在寻找长形式。

And as I always say, it's not rocket science what we're doing but I think it's actually, it's rare these days.

正如我常说的，我们正在做的事情并不是火箭科学，但我认为实际上，现在这种情况很少见。

I think a lot of it is about going to the gym.

我认为很多都是关于去健身房。

So when I was young everyone played tennis or even, believe it or not, racquetball.

所以当我年轻的时候，每个人都打网球，甚至，信不信由你，还打壁球。

And if you're doing that you can't really listen to much while you're playing.

如果你这样做，你在演奏时就无法真正听到太多声音。

But if you go to the gym, you go to the gym often for about an hour or a bit more than an hour, you're typically doing something solo, you're bored out of your mind and you want something to listen to.

但如果你去健身房，你经常去健身房大约一个小时或一个多小时，你通常会独自做一些事情，你会感到无聊，你想听点东西。

And you don't wanna be changing podcasts every five minutes, you get into some kind of rhythm and you actually listen.

你不想每五分钟更换一次播客，你会进入某种节奏并真正地听。

It's the closest thing we have to a captive audience.

这是我们最接近被俘虏的观众的东西。

And then there are commutes which, because we don't price the roads at rush hour, 'cause we don't listen to economists, many of those are about an hour long, so you get your podcast listened to in your commute.

还有一些通勤，因为我们不会在高峰时段对道路定价，因为我们不听经济学家的意见，其中许多通勤时间大约一个小时，所以你可以在通勤时收听你的播客。

Yeah.

是的。

And people who go to the gym and people who commute, if you think of them demographically, they are much more influential and better educated than average, I think.

我认为，去健身房的人和通勤的人，如果你从人口统计学上考虑他们，他们比平均水平更有影响力，受教育程度也更高。

Yeah, well, think how beautiful it is.

是啊，想想看，那是多么美丽啊。

Every single one of you have a device in your pocket.

你们每个人的口袋里都有一台设备。

You have access to the world right then and there.

您可以随时随地接触世界。

I talk to… Next week we're doing a fan show on my show which I do every six months.

我和……下周我们将在我的节目中举办一场粉丝秀，我每六个月举办一次。

I'm interviewing 20 fans from 20 different countries, so we'll be talking to people from Africa to North America to South America and everywhere else.

我正在采访来自 20 个不同国家的 20 名粉丝，因此我们将采访来自非洲、北美、南美和其他地方的人们。

And I do 20 in a row and it's incredibly rewarding that people are connecting over these ideas.

我连续做了 20 个，人们通过这些想法进行交流，这是令人难以置信的回报。

And yes, there's diversity in color and religion and things like that, but it's really about diversity of thought, which is far more important…

是的，肤色和宗教等方面存在多样性，但这实际上是思想的多样性，这更重要……

What's your country number two for listenership?

您所在的国家/地区听众数量排名第二？

Country number two is the UK.

第二个国家是英国。

So it's the US, UK, Australia and then Sweden, which is really interesting, because there's a lot going on there right now and they're having all sorts of issues related to free speech.

美国、英国、澳大利亚，然后是瑞典，这真的很有趣，因为那里现在发生了很多事情，他们面临着与言论自由相关的各种问题。

And then, believe it or not, number five according to YouTube is Saudi Arabia, which I'm actually very proud of because it means we're making a dent in a place that's a pretty closed society.

然后，不管你信不信，根据 YouTube 的排名，排名第五的是沙特阿拉伯，我实际上对此感到非常自豪，因为这意味着我们正在一个相当封闭的社会中取得进展。

And do Saudis write you about what you're doing?

沙特人会写信告诉你你在做什么吗？

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

I get emails literally from all over the world.

我收到来自世界各地的电子邮件。

What kind of anecdotal feedback do you get from countries other than the normal?

您从非正常国家/地区获得了哪些轶事反馈？

He has a little YouTube channel, but he doesn't show his face on his channel.

他有一个 YouTube 小频道，但他并没有在自己的频道上露面。

And he reached out to me, he said he wanted to do my show, and I said, “Look, if you wanna to wear a Spiderman mask and do it, if that'll keep you safe, go ahead.” And he said no, he wanted to show his face and he came on and he told me that his political awakening was that same night, because he saw the clip on YouTube.

他向我伸出援手，说他想做我的节目，我说，“听着，如果你想戴上蜘蛛侠面具并这样做，如果这样可以保证你的安全，那就继续吧。”他说不，他想露出自己的脸，他上台告诉我，他的政治觉醒是在当天晚上，因为他在 YouTube 上看到了这段视频。

And that's an incredibly powerful thing.

这是一件非常强大的事情。

We live literally half the world apart and we're having awakenings over ideas and it's only because YouTube and all of this exists.

我们的生活实际上相隔半个地球，我们对思想的认识正在觉醒，这只是因为 YouTube 和所有这一切的存在。

I've had people from Nigeria write me about my podcast, but for some reason it gets sent to the spam filter.

来自尼日利亚的人写信给我介绍我的播客，但由于某种原因，它被发送到垃圾邮件过滤器。

Are they a prince?

他们是王子吗？

Do they want some money from you?

他们想要你的钱吗？

Just give them the account and figure it out.

只需给他们帐户并弄清楚即可。

Now another innovation you've been behind is the notion of crowdfunding your own activities.

现在，您支持的另一项创新是为您自己的活动进行众筹的概念。

And you've been very successful with this.

你在这方面非常成功。

Could you tell the audience a little bit about how that's worked for you?

你能告诉观众一些这对你来说是如何起作用的吗？

Yeah, so crowdfunding actually has been the greatest freedom that I could possibly imagine.

是的，所以众筹实际上是我能想象到的最大的自由。

So we started my show, don't boo immediately, but at first I was with the Young Turks, which is a progressive, or regressive in my view, online news network, and we were with them for about a year and a half.

所以我们开始了我的节目，不要立即嘘声，但一开始我和青年土耳其党在一起，在我看来这是一个进步的，或者是倒退的在线新闻网络，我们和他们在一起大约一年半。

And then I moved over to Ora TV, which is Larry King's digital network and that's really where the show took off and I was talking to people like Sam Harris and Ayaan and all sorts of people.

然后我转到了 Ora TV，这是 Larry King 的数字网络，这确实是节目起飞的地方，我正在与 Sam Harris 和 Ayaan 等人以及各种各样的人交谈。

And that's where the show really hit its mark.

这就是这部剧真正达到目标的地方。

And after about nine months, I realized we had sort of grown to the point, and I was getting so much email from all over the world and people saying that they were feeling something about these conversations that we were having, that I thought we could do this independently.

大约九个月后，我意识到我们已经发展到了这一点，我收到了来自世界各地的大量电子邮件，人们说他们对我们正在进行的这些对话有某种感觉，我认为我们可以独立完成这件事。

Now, consider comedy and politics.

现在，考虑一下喜剧和政治。

Some people have the common view that the major comedians out there, they're left wing.

有些人普遍认为，主要的喜剧演员都是左翼。

There's Colbert, there's John Stewart, it might seem superficially that if you have a sort of anti-establishment attitude, it's easier to be comic about that.

有科尔伯特，有约翰·斯图尔特，从表面上看，如果你有某种反建制态度，就更容易表现得滑稽。

Lenny Bruce in the 1960s, Richard Pryor, it's easy to be against something and to be funny.

20 世纪 60 年代的莱尼·布鲁斯 (Lenny Bruce)、理查德·普赖尔 (Richard Pryor)，反对某件事并变得有趣很容易。

Do you think there's some kind of bias in the medium of comedy against a mix of libertarian, conservative, social conservative ideas?

你认为喜剧媒介是否存在某种针对自由主义、保守主义、社会保守主义思想的偏见？

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

We're against the norm right now.

我们现在违反了常态。

Look at comedy, I'm sure I don't have to tell you guys, but you could look at… I don't wanna throw a bunch of people under the bus, but look at mainstream comedy right now.

看看喜剧，我相信我不必告诉你们，但你们可以看看……我不想让一群人陷入困境，但现在看看主流喜剧。

It's pretty bad, yeah, there's a couple, Louis CK and Chappelle, but basically they've bought into identity politics.

这很糟糕，是的，有一对夫妇，路易斯·CK和查普尔，但基本上他们已经接受了身份政治。

So there's just so much of it that they're fighting the wrong people, they're strengthening the wrong ideas…

所以，太多的事情让他们在与错误的人作斗争，他们在强化错误的想法……

But is that going to flip against them?

但这会对他们不利吗？

Because identity politics has a kind of self-seriousness to it.

因为身份政治有一种自我严肃性。

You're not allowed to laugh at certain things.

你不可以对某些事情发笑。

You're not supposed to.

你不应该这样做。

And then you have comedians promoting identity politics.

然后还有喜剧演员宣扬身份政治。

Won't that, at least in the comedy club, be self-refuting?

至少在喜剧俱乐部里，这不是自相矛盾吗？

Oh, yeah, well, it's hugely damaging and you can see it.

哦，是的，嗯，它的破坏性很大，你可以看到它。

So like, Amy Schumer, who I think is a perfectly nice person, I have nothing against her.

就像艾米·舒默一样，我认为她是一个非常好的人，我对她没有任何反对意见。

Her Netflix special got terrible reviews because she trades in a lot of that stuff.

她的 Netflix 特辑获得了糟糕的评价，因为她用了很多这样的东西。

Their own viewing audience turned against it and once they found that out, they actually changed their rating system, because they didn't want the public actually screwing with their rating system.

他们自己的观众反对它，一旦他们发现这一点，他们实际上改变了他们的评级系统，因为他们不希望公众真正破坏他们的评级系统。

So they don't do it by stars anymore, which is, I think, kind of interesting.

所以他们不再用明星来做这件事，我认为这很有趣。

But yes, there's been a flip.

但是，是的，出现了翻转。

Look, political correctness is the death of comedy.

看，政治正确就是喜剧的死亡。

Think about it.

想一想。

I would argue that George Carlin is the greatest comedian of all time.

我认为乔治·卡林是有史以来最伟大的喜剧演员。

He would literally be banned from campuses right now.

他现在实际上会被禁止进入校园。

He would be thought of as an old, white, patriarchal guy coming around telling them these scary thoughts.

他会被认为是一个老白人，有父权的男人，会告诉他们这些可怕的想法。

That's a huge problem and that is not good, it's not good for comedy, it's not good for society.

这是一个大问题，这不好，这对喜剧没有好处，对社会也没有好处。

I'm older than you are, when I was a kid most of my friends were not allowed to listen to George Carlin because he was too radical as a smart aleck.

我比你大，当我还是个孩子的时候，我的大多数朋友都不被允许听乔治·卡林的讲话，因为他太自作聪明了。

And today, you would not be allowed to listen to him because he's too much of a patriarch.

而今天，你不被允许听他的，因为他太像个家长了。

Right, exactly.

对，完全正确。

But really, that's powerful.

但实际上，这很强大。

That's a powerful notion right there.

这是一个强有力的想法。

And it's true.

这是真的。

Now, as political correctness spreads its tentacles, do you think it will reach much into actual comedy clubs?

现在，随着政治正确的触角蔓延，你认为它会在真正的喜剧俱乐部中发挥多大作用吗？

Where, when I go I still hear some fairly outrageous things being said.

当我去哪里时，我仍然听到一些相当令人震惊的事情。

Not by everyone, maybe you're more likely to hear racial jokes from individuals who are minorities or jokes about women from women and so on.

不是每个人都这样，也许你更有可能听到少数族裔的种族笑话或女性关于女性的笑话等等。

But how is political correctness affecting the inside of the comedy club?

但政治正确性如何影响喜剧俱乐部内部呢？

I'm doing a little less stand up now, so I'm really only doing gigs maybe once a month or so in the clubs.

我现在的单口相声少了一些，所以我实际上只在俱乐部里每月一次左右进行演出。

Just because, as I said, I can spend more time doing a podcast where I can suddenly reach, quite literally hundreds of thousands of people like that versus a club I can reach 20 drunk people and it has less value.

正如我所说，只是因为我可以花更多的时间做播客，这样我就可以突然接触到成千上万的人，而在俱乐部里我可以接触到 20 名醉酒的人，但它的价值较小。

There's no doubt that everything's shifting in the political correctness, what's happening is, you guys have probably heard about all these memes about Pepe the Frog and Kekistan and all of this stuff, which a certain amount of people on the left would have you believe are hate symbols or something like that.

毫无疑问，政治正确性方面的一切都在发生变化，正在发生的事情是，你们可能听说过所有关于佩佩青蛙和凯基斯坦的模因以及所有这些东西，某些左翼人士会让你相信它们是仇恨符号或类似的东西。

It's actually just a bunch of kids just trying to get a rile out of people, it truly, that's what it is.

实际上，这只是一群孩子只是想激怒人们，确实如此。

I'm in this at a very intimate level and I see this, where these kids literally, they send a picture of a frog to a celebrity and then the celebrity then amplifies it and says they're under attack, and this really is happening right now.

我在一个非常亲密的层面上，我看到了这一点，这些孩子从字面上看，他们向名人发送了一张青蛙的照片，然后名人放大了它并说他们受到了攻击，这确实正在发生。

And then the ADL, which I think they mean well, they then list this frog as a hate symbol.

然后是 ADL，我认为他们的意思是好的，然后他们将这只青蛙列为仇恨象征。

This is really what's happening right now, this is comedy but it's coming from not the place you think it's supposed to come from.

这确实是现在正在发生的事情，这是喜剧，但它不是来自你认为它应该来自的地方。

How much do you think comedy is what's sometimes called ‘a winner take all' market?

您认为喜剧在多大程度上是有时被称为“赢者通吃”的市场？

So another way to phrase the question is 20 years from now do you think there will be more or fewer professional comedians?

那么问题的另一种说法是，20 年后，你认为职业喜剧演员会更多还是更少？

You might say, for instance, “Well, you're on YouTube, you're really funny, I don't need to go to a comedy club.” There's this fellow in South Korea, Robert Kelly, he did an interview, he was trying not to be funny doing the interview, his two kids ran into the room, his wife pulled the kids back, it created a viral video, one of the funnier things I saw all year.

例如，您可能会说，“好吧，您在 YouTube 上，您真的很有趣，我不需要去喜剧俱乐部。”韩国有一个人，罗伯特·凯利，他接受了一次采访，他试图在采访中表现得不搞笑，他的两个孩子跑进房间，他的妻子把孩子们拉了回来，这创造了一个病毒视频，这是我一年中看到的最有趣的事情之一。

Yeah.

是的。

Maybe not a funny guy, he was trying to keep it serious, so it was hilarious, and I can find those through my filters, through Twitter, through search.

也许不是一个有趣的人，他试图保持严肃，所以这很搞笑，我可以通过我的过滤器、通过 Twitter、通过搜索找到这些内容。

What's the role of a professional comedian when an amateur's best moment from a guy who isn't even funny goes so viral?

当一个业余喜剧演员的最佳时刻被一个甚至都不好笑的人传播得如此之广时，专业喜剧演员的作用是什么？

Well, the role is always there because the commentary on society is always gonna be there, so the moments like… Of course, I saw that video and it's hilarious and it's in the moment and it's a beautiful thing.

好吧，这个角色总是在那里，因为对社会的评论总是在那里，所以像……当然，我看了那个视频，它很搞笑，就在当下，这是一件美丽的事情。

By the way, there was an outrage to that, because a lot of people were saying that the woman who came in was his nanny because I think she was Asian but it was actually his wife so then that created… So even that, just a pure moment of something hilarious happening became part of the outrage machine too.

顺便说一句，这引起了人们的愤怒，因为很多人都说进来的女人是他的保姆，因为我认为她是亚洲人，但实际上是他的妻子，所以这就创造了……所以即便如此，只是一个纯粹的搞笑发生的时刻也成为了愤怒机器的一部分。

But the role for the critic of society, it'll always be there, but it's just not gonna to come from the clubs anymore, I think.

但社会批评家的角色将永远存在，但我认为它不会再来自俱乐部了。

I think that unfortunately… Comedy in its rawest form of standing in front of a group of people with a microphone and connecting to them that way, it's as beautiful as it gets, there's nothing in between you and the audience.

我认为不幸的是……喜剧以其最原始的形式站在一群人面前，拿着麦克风并以这种方式与他们联系，它是多么美丽，你和观众之间没有任何障碍。

It's like painting, if you were a great painter and every stroke you had to go, “Was that okay?

这就像绘画，如果你是一位伟大的画家，你的每一笔都必须这样：“可以吗？

Was that okay?” Well, that would make you kinda crazy as a painter, but in stand up up you have to do it that way, every line you have to make sure is funny.

可以吗？好吧，作为一名画家，这会让你有点疯狂，但在站立时你必须这样做，你必须确保每一行都很有趣。

I have not been funny here today at all, maybe we have to do something else.

我今天在这里一点都不好笑，也许我们必须做点别的事情。

There's less live music in New York City today than in the 1970s, is there less live comedy?

如今纽约市的现场音乐比 20 世纪 70 年代少了，现场喜剧也少了吗？

I think there is a little bit less because people are just realizing… The simple truth is anybody, you got a good idea and you can open a YouTube account and do it there.

我认为数量会少一些，因为人们刚刚意识到……简单的事实是，任何人，只要有一个好主意，就可以开设一个 YouTube 帐户并在那里实现。

So people just see less utility for it and, by the way, I really think that's okay as much as I loved stand up and I love spoken word stuff and live events and things like that, I think ultimately if you can figure out how to get to your people, which is why we do what we do, then whether you're doing it in front of people or just in your room I think either one's fine.

所以人们认为它的实用性较低，顺便说一句，我真的认为这没关系，就像我喜欢站起来、我喜欢口语和现场活动以及类似的事情一样，我认为最终如果你能弄清楚如何接触你的员工，这就是我们所做的事情，那么无论你是在人们面前做还是在你的房间里做，我认为两者都可以。

And as a comedian are you more of a gatekeeper in a way that a comedian might have been in an earlier time?

作为一名喜剧演员，你是否更像是一个看门人，就像早期的喜剧演员一样？

And let me explain this, so if the moments from these amateurs, like there are hilarious one star reviews on Amazon, there are funny tweets.

让我解释一下，如果这些业余爱好者的时刻，比如亚马逊上有搞笑的一星评论，就会有有趣的推文。

There's so much funny stuff out there, even done by non-funny people.

那里有很多有趣的事情，甚至是由一些不有趣的人做的。

If I can just live in the moments I still want comedians, but I want comedians I trust, comedians who have opinions, they're gatekeepers of opinion, they're figures and personalities, and that in a sense is more important than just being funny.

如果我能活在当下，我仍然想要喜剧演员，但我想要我信任的喜剧演员，有观点的喜剧演员，他们是观点的看门人，他们是人物和个性，从某种意义上说，这比仅仅搞笑更重要。

‘Cause just being funny, you're competing against the moments, but the moments don't supply trust, a sense of comfort, and even moral guidance.

因为只是为了搞笑，你是在与那些时刻竞争，但这些时刻并不能提供信任、舒适感，甚至道德指导。

Do you agree with that?

你同意吗？

Yeah, well, look, who do we miss right now in America, whether you agreed with his politics or not?

是的，好吧，看看，我们现在在美国想念谁，无论你是否同意他的政治观点？

I suspect that for this audience, that Jon Stewart was probably a little left for you guys, but we miss some voice right now of sanity, that's what we don't have right now.

我怀疑对于这些观众来说，乔恩·斯图尔特可能对你们来说有点左，但我们现在错过了一些理智的声音，这就是我们现在所没有的。

That's you.

那就是你。

Well, I guess… Alright, alright.

嗯，我想……好吧，好吧。

But… Well, thank you, but we miss that in general, that you can get some truth.

但是……好吧，谢谢你，但我们总体上怀念这一点，即你可以获得一些真相。

No one wants to be… What's that Oscar Wilde quote about truth?

没有人想成为……奥斯卡·王尔德关于真理的名言是什么？

“If it's not funny they're gonna hang you.” I completely butchered that but something to that effect.

“如果这不好笑，他们就会绞死你。”我完全扼杀了这一点，但也有类似的效果。

So couching something in some humor is really the only way you can tell anyone truthful, anything truthful these days.

因此，以某种幽默的方式表达一些事情实际上是当今你可以告诉任何人真实的事情的唯一方法。

Is it hard to stay funny as you start to feel more morally important?

当你开始感到道德上更重要时，保持幽默是否很难？

I think I'm probably struggling with that a little bit, quite honestly, yeah.

我想我可能在这个问题上有点挣扎，老实说，是的。

I'm talking about big things, I'm talking about important things and racism and free speech and all this stuff, but I can tell you this, when I go to universities and I talk to these kids, they want to laugh, they really do, and I've tried to bring back my stand up into that while we're talking about some seriously heavy stuff.

我正在谈论大事，我正在谈论重要的事情以及种族主义和言论自由以及所有这些东西，但我可以告诉你这一点，当我去大学和这些孩子交谈时，他们想笑，他们真的想笑，当我们谈论一些非常沉重的事情时，我试图恢复我的立场。

Because imagine being a 20-year-old kid right now and consistently told, “You can't think what you think.” And if you think differently you're somehow racist or bigoted or prejudiced or any of this stuff.

因为想象一下，现在你是一个 20 岁的孩子，并不断被告知：“你不能想你所想的。”如果你有不同的想法，那么你就是种族主义者、偏执者、偏见之类的。

So they need any outlet and if we don't provide it to them then people with worse intentions than us will.

所以他们需要任何出口，如果我们不向他们提供出口，那么那些比我们怀有更坏意图的人就会提供出口。

So in the 1960s much of the left, not all of it but much of it, they were big defenders of free speech.

因此，在 20 世纪 60 年代，左派的大部分人（不是全部，但大部分）都是言论自由的坚定捍卫者。

You had the Berkley Free Speech Movement, these days you have Berkeley possibly banning Ann Coulter or at least telling her she has to come on some other date when she can't make it.

你有伯克利言论自由运动，这些天你有伯克利可能禁止安·库尔特，或者至少告诉她，当她无法参加时，她必须参加其他约会。

Why has the left changed on the speech issue so much, to what do you ascribe that evolution?

为什么左派在言论问题上发生了如此大的变化，您将这种演变归因于什么？

So this unfortunately is my specialty, because I was part of the left and it's only in the last couple years that I really understood what classical liberalism was and that being liberal has very little to do with being progressive or a part of the left.

不幸的是，这是我的专长，因为我是左派的一部分，直到最近几年我才真正理解古典自由主义是什么，而自由主义与进步或左派的一部分没有什么关系。

The left and the progressives, they've become regressive.

左派和进步派，他们已经变得倒退了。

The belief that they have in the collective, that you should judge people by these immutable characteristics of them being black or gay or Muslim or whatever else it is.

他们在集体中的信念是，你应该根据他们是黑人、同性恋、穆斯林或其他任何东西的这些不变的特征来判断人们。

Well, you automatically, you're throwing out the individual.

好吧，你会自动地抛弃这个人。

You're throwing out the free thinker.

你正在抛弃自由思想家。

You're throwing out the ex-Muslim who maybe wants to talk about the doctrine of Islam, which is a set of ideas that should be critiqued the way you would critique any other set of ideas.

你正在抛弃那些可能想谈论伊斯兰教义的前穆斯林，伊斯兰教义是一套观念，应该像批评任何其他观念一样受到批评。

You studied for a year at Ben-Gurion University in Israel.

您在以色列本古里安大学学习了一年。

How did that shape you?

这对你有何影响？

Yeah.

是的。

Wow, you really did your research!

哇，你真的做了研究！

How did that shape me?

这如何塑造了我？

Well, Israel's an interesting place because it is the size of New Jersey and at some point… It's about nine miles wide, the entire country.

嗯，以色列是一个有趣的地方，因为它的大小相当于新泽西州，并且在某些时候......它大约有九英里宽，是整个国家。

They've got one international airport…

他们有一个国际机场......

And a very different notion of political correctness.

还有一种非常不同的政治正确性概念。

Well, it's funny, I was there about a year ago, and I just tweeted out that I was at a bar, and about 50 people showed up.

嗯，很有趣，大约一年前我去过那里，我刚刚在推特上说我在一家酒吧，大约有 50 人出现。

That's half the country right there.

那是半个国家。

It's a pretty small country.

这是一个相当小的国家。

And I realized what it was, they have no tolerance for political correctness because when shit's blowing up all over the place, you simply just can't worry about what's politically correct.

我意识到那是什么，他们对政治正确没有容忍度，因为当狗屎到处乱窜时，你根本就不能担心什么是政治正确。

You have to do what actually is correct.

你必须做实际上正确的事情。

Are you more or less funny in Israel?

你在以色列或多或少有趣吗？

Am I more or less funny in Israel?

我在以色列或多或少有趣吗？

Well, I do a pretty decent Israeli accent.

嗯，我的以色列口音相当不错。

And you know it's coming, I want to ____ okay.

你知道它即将到来，我想____，好吧。

I'm dealing with an Israeli contractor who built my studio right now, which if anything can turn you into an anti-semite, that's it.

我正在和一个以色列承包商打交道，他现在建造了我的工作室，如果有什么能让你变成反犹太主义者，就是这样。

If it's indeed a country where anything can be said, does that make it harder to be funny?

如果这确实是一个什么都可以说的国家，那是不是就更难搞笑了？

Is a certain amount of censorship, whether explicit or implicit required for humor to have its force?

幽默是否需要一定程度的审查（无论是明确的还是隐含的）才能发挥作用？

So you see from totalitarian societies, satire has much more power than maybe it does in America today.

所以你会发现，从极权社会来看，讽刺的力量可能比今天的美国大得多。

Yeah.

是的。

Well, that's a great question, because if you listen to the hysterics of the people on the left at the moment, they're making it sound like Trump is cracking down on everyone's free speech.

嗯，这是一个很好的问题，因为如果你听一下左翼人士此刻歇斯底里的声音，他们会让这听起来像是特朗普正在压制每个人的言论自由。

Now, I did not… I voted for Gary Johnson, and I should be judged accordingly, but Trump… I don't fear the government coming for my free speech at the moment.

现在，我没有……我投票给加里·约翰逊，我应该受到相应的评判，但是特朗普……我现在并不担心政府会来剥夺我的言论自由。

I simply don't.

我就是不这么认为。

What I fear is the chill factor, that we're doing it to ourselves.

我担心的是令人心寒的因素，我们正在对自己做这件事。

Every day, we're slowly putting out less information, we don't wanna be de-friended with somebody on Facebook and we don't wanna be attacked on Twitter.

我们每天发布的信息都在慢慢减少，我们不想在 Facebook 上与某人解除好友关系，也不想在 Twitter 上受到攻击。

I literally get emails from people that are going through divorces over politics now.

我确实收到了那些因政治原因而离婚的人发来的电子邮件。

And even just think about that in your own life.

甚至在你自己的生活中想想这一点。

There used to be a time… I used to know couples and friends that disagreed on things and that was it.

曾经有一段时间……我曾经认识一些在某些事情上存在分歧的夫妇和朋友，仅此而已。

You'd have a drink and you'd have something to eat and we agree to disagree and that's it.

你会喝一杯，吃点东西，我们同意不同意，仅此而已。

That's becoming increasingly rare, and I find myself even… Even though people know what I do, I have good friends who I get into crazy arguments with and I always make a point of saying, “Whatever happens here, our friendship is far more important.” And the fact that you even have to say that these days, or you have to preface something by, if you like somebody who's a little out of mainstream think, you may have to go, “Well, I don't agree with everything he says.” What a crazy notion that is.

这种情况变得越来越罕见，我发现自己甚至……尽管人们知道我做什么，但我有一些好朋友，我会和他们进行疯狂的争论，我总是强调说，“无论这里发生什么，我们的友谊都更重要。”事实上，现在你甚至必须这样说，或者你必须以这样的方式开头，如果你喜欢一个有点脱离主流思想的人，你可能必须说，“好吧，我不同意他所说的一切。”这是多么疯狂的想法啊。

Who do you agree with all the time?

你一直同意谁的观点？

I don't even agree with myself all the time.

我什至一直不同意自己的观点。

Don Rickles, he just passed away at age 90, famous comedian.

唐·里克斯 (Don Rickles)，著名喜剧演员，刚刚去世，享年 90 岁。

He was famous for insulting people.

他以侮辱他人而闻名。

He insulted everyone, but often he insulted people in ways that today would be hard to pull off.

他侮辱了所有人，但他经常以今天很难做到的方式侮辱别人。

Could there be a Don Rickles today?

今天会有唐·里克斯吗？

I don't think so.

我不这么认为。

I don't think there could be… The idea of a Don Rickles there could be, but the idea that someone could start these days and walk around this room and go, “Yeah, you're a Jew, and black guy, Hispanic.” All that stuff, it could never fly, even if it was hilarious.

我认为不可能……唐·里克斯的想法可能存在，但现在有人可以开始在这个房间里走来走去，然后说：“是的，你是一个犹太人，一个黑人，西班牙裔。”所有这些东西，即使很搞笑，它也永远无法飞翔。

The amount of cred… He had years and years and years of cred building in a politically incorrect age to get there, so to start with that, I think it would be incredibly tough.

信誉的数量……他在一个政治不正确的时代花费了很多年的时间来建立信誉，所以首先，我认为这将是非常困难的。

Ironically, we need that more than ever.

具有讽刺意味的是，我们比以往任何时候都更需要这一点。

We need to laugh at some of those stereotypes.

我们需要嘲笑其中一些刻板印象。

We need to laugh at some of those differences.

我们需要嘲笑其中的一些差异。

That's the whole point is that if you can't laugh at that stuff, man, we're really in trouble.

这就是重点，如果你不能嘲笑那些东西，伙计，我们真的有麻烦了。

Now, you've been an opponent of political correctness, but do you feel there are things that we should actually not be allowed to make fun of?

现在，您一直是政治正确的反对者，但您是否认为有些事情实际上不应该被允许取笑？

I don't mean in the law…

我的意思不是法律上...

No, wherever you're going with this, the answer is no.

不，无论你要做什么，答案是否定的。

In terms of custom and politeness…

在风俗习惯和礼貌方面……

No, no.

不，不。

And things that people should not make fun of in a comedy club.

以及人们不应该在喜剧俱乐部中取笑的事情。

No, you can absolutely make fun of everything.

不，你绝对可以取笑一切。

There's simply nothing…

简直什么都没有……

Every single thing?

每一件事情？

You can give me a list of things and I would say there's absolutely everything…

你可以给我一份清单，我会说绝对是一切......

You're willing to bite the bullet?

你愿意硬着头皮吗？

100%.

100%。

If you truly believe in what free speech is, then yes, you have… Somebody might say something offensive to you.

如果您真正相信什么是言论自由，那么是的，您已经……有人可能会说一些冒犯您的话。

Somebody might… I had a girl at… When I was at UT a couple days ago, there was a girl in the back, and she was a young black girl, and she said, “You know, it would be very upsetting to me if I was walking down the street and someone called me a bunch of names and blah, blah, blah, and what do we do about that?” And I said, “Nobody wants to be called bad names.

有人可能......我有一个女孩......当我几天前在UT时，后面有一个女孩，她是一个年轻的黑人女孩，她说，“你知道，如果我走在街上，有人叫我一堆名字，等等，我们该怎么办？”我说：“没有人愿意被骂坏名声。

Nobody wants to be talked down to and all that, but at the end of the day, they're just words.

没有人愿意被人居高临下之类的谈论，但归根结底，这些都只是说说而已。

It's actually on you how you react to these words.

实际上取决于你对这些话的反应。

Go ahead and start fighting with them if you want and use your free speech to counter it.” But there's simply nothing that should be off limits, unless you can think of something…

如果你愿意的话，就开始与他们战斗，并用你的言论自由来反击他们。”但根本没有什么是禁止的，除非你能想到什么……

Is there a topic I'm not free to even mention, much less joke about.

有什么话题我连提都不敢提，更不用说开玩笑了。

And I'd like to ask you, should “X” be off limits?

我想问你，“X”应该是禁区吗？

Yeah, give me one.

是的，给我一个。

And I'm not willing to say “X”.

我不愿意说“X”。

Right, therein lies the problem.

没错，问题就在于此。

Here, you wanna write it down.

在这里，你想把它写下来。

Why don't you write something down here.

你为什么不在这里写点东西呢。

I'll look at it, and then see what we can come up with.

我会看看，然后看看我们能想出什么。

The “P” word, does that…

“P”这个词，是不是……

The “P” word?

“P”字？

Pedophilia.

恋童癖。

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

You can make fun of it, sure.

当然，你可以取笑它。

Okay, yeah.

好吧，是的。

I don't know, I don't have a desire to… I certainly wouldn't mock.

我不知道，我不想……我当然不会嘲笑。

This is why it's on you.

这就是为什么它在你身上。

But say, victims, so one can joke about the topic, but to joke about victims of various very bad events.

但是说，受害者，所以人们可以拿这个话题开玩笑，但是要拿各种非常糟糕的事件的受害者开玩笑。

Should there be like a private norm or custom where that is…

是否应该存在某种私人规范或习俗……

That's on you.

那是你的事了。

It's on you.

就靠你了。

That's simply the truth.

这就是事实。

Do I want some sort of laws or code, or even…

我想要某种法律或法规，甚至……

No, no. No laws.

不，不。没有法律。

No laws.

没有法律。

It's simply on you, yes.

这完全取决于你，是的。

I prefer, myself, to be a decent human being but at the end of the day… Look, go on Twitter for just a moment and search some words that you don't like and you will see the most horrific things you can… Things that you truly cannot imagine you will see people say.

我自己更喜欢做一个正派的人，但归根结底……看，在 Twitter 上浏览一会儿，搜索一些你不喜欢的词，你会看到最可怕的事情……你真正无法想象你会看到人们说的事情。

I'm afraid to compile that search history.

我害怕编辑搜索历史。

Yeah, yeah.

是啊是啊。

Look at my Twitter mentions one day, you can see some pretty horrible stuff.

有一天，看看我的推特，你会看到一些非常可怕的东西。

But you know what?

但你知道吗？

They have a right to do it.

他们有权这样做。

They simply have a right to do it.

他们只是有权利这样做。

It doesn't mean you should do it, but you can do it.

这并不意味着你应该这样做，而是你可以做到。

What's the most underrated Star Wars movie?

最被低估的星球大战电影是哪部？

Ah, now we're into something good.

啊，现在我们正在做一些好事。

The most underrated Star Wars movie is Revenge of the Sith, actually, which was the last of the prequels.

实际上，最被低估的星球大战电影是《西斯的复仇》，这是前传的最后一部。

Which I know gets mocked a lot, but it's a great political story about giving up too much power to what became the executive branch and then how that then gets flipped and you suddenly are cracking down on all the wrong people.

我知道这遭到了很多嘲笑，但这是一个伟大的政治故事，讲述了向行政部门放弃了太多权力，然后如何翻转，你突然镇压了所有错误的人。

There's an incredible political story there that unfortunately through some bad acting and George Lucas not handing off enough, there's really some libertarian stuff in there and some stuff about consolidation of power and a lot of interesting political stuff.

那里有一个令人难以置信的政治故事，不幸的是，由于一些糟糕的表演和乔治卢卡斯没有足够的交接，那里确实有一些自由主义的东西，一些关于权力巩固的东西和许多有趣的政治东西。

So Star Wars is important to you?

那么星球大战对你来说很重要吗？

Hugely important to me.

对我来说非常重要。

What else from movies, literature, cultural background has been important to you, helping to make you funny, but also giving you your ideas?

电影、文学、文化背景中还有什么对你来说很重要，既能让你变得有趣，又能给你带来想法？

I don't mean politics now, culture.

我现在指的不是政治，而是文化。

Well, I would say in terms of culture, I once ate some pot brownies and went to go see the movie Air Force One and it was sold out.

嗯，我想说的是，就文化而言，我曾经吃了一些布朗尼蛋糕，然后去看电影“空军一号”，它已经卖完了。

It was sold out, so that's not the funny part.

它已经卖完了，所以这不是有趣的部分。

It was sold out and I ended up walking into the movie, Contact, which was Carl Sagan, it's his one fiction book, with Jodie Foster.

它卖完了，我最终走进了卡尔·萨根的电影《接触》，这是他的一本小说，与朱迪·福斯特合作。

And I don't know if you guys remember, but there's an incredible opening scene, a panorama of the universe.

我不知道你们是否还记得，有一个令人难以置信的开场场景，宇宙的全景。

And I had eaten some pot brownies with some friends and my mind was blown.

我和一些朋友吃了一些布朗尼蛋糕，我的心大为震惊。

I mean, I was on another planet as that panoramic scene opened.

我的意思是，当全景场景打开时，我身处另一个星球。

And then through that, I loved the movie, I loved the existential questions it offered and the discussions about science and also there's some interesting stuff about the role of government and what it should pay for in research as opposed to private and so a lot of cool stuff, and Jodie Foster's amazing.

通过这一切，我喜欢这部电影，我喜欢它提出的存在主义问题和有关科学的讨论，还有一些关于政府的角色以及政府应该为研究而不是私人支付什么费用的有趣的东西，还有很多很酷的东西，朱迪·福斯特的精彩。

But because of that, I basically read every Carl Sagan book, and that really opened me up to a lot of free thinking and a lot of philosophy and things like that.

但正因为如此，我基本上读了卡尔·萨根的每一本书，这确实让我接触到了很多自由思考和很多哲学之类的东西。

And those made you more optimistic?

这些让你变得更加乐观？

I think, ultimately, I'm an optimist, which is…

我认为，归根结底，我是一个乐观主义者，也就是说……

Ultimately is the tricky word there, right?

最终是一个棘手的词，对吧？

Yeah, at the end of the day I'm an optimist, but I think there's a lot of bad stuff at the moment.

是的，归根结底，我是一个乐观主义者，但我认为目前有很多不好的事情。

One of the things that I always say to the kids when I go to the schools is, I'm sure most of you guys saw Midnight in Paris, the Woody Allen movie.

当我去学校时，我总是对孩子们说的一件事是，我相信你们大多数人都看过伍迪·艾伦的电影《午夜巴黎》。

And the crux of the movie is that everyone thinks that if they only lived in another time that it was important then, if you lived in some other period that that's when things were really happening.

这部电影的关键在于，每个人都认为，如果他们只生活在另一个时代，那么这很重要，如果你生活在另一个时期，那就是事情真正发生的时候。

But what I say to these kids is, “You guys truly live in something amazing right now.” I mean, all of you can feel it, that's why you're all here and you guys all do the work that you do.

但我对这些孩子们说的是，“你们现在确实生活在令人惊奇的事物中。”我的意思是，你们所有人都能感觉到，这就是为什么你们都在这里，你们都做你们所做的工作。

There's something happening right now, there is some incredible fertile ground.

现在正在发生一些事情，有一些令人难以置信的沃土。

It doesn't mean it's gonna go well or it's gonna go bad, it's up for us to choose, and that's why talking to these young people is so important.

这并不意味着事情会进展顺利或会变坏，这取决于我们的选择，这就是为什么与这些年轻人交谈如此重要。

If you tell jokes all day long and you make people laugh and you interact with them on social media, that whole experience on net, making people laugh, does it make you more or less optimistic about human nature compared to when you started?

如果你整天讲笑话，让人发笑，在社交媒体上与他们互动，整个在网络上让人发笑的经历，与刚开始的时候相比，是否让你对人性更加乐观或不乐观了？

Well, social media, generally can make you…

嗯，社交媒体通常可以让你……

It's part of the package, though.

不过，它是套餐的一部分。

Yeah, it's part of the package.

是的，它是套餐的一部分。

It can make you less optimistic.

它会让你变得不那么乐观。

It's a crazy… Look, all of these things are free, right?

这太疯狂了……看，所有这些东西都是免费的，对吧？

So anyone can get on Facebook, everyone can get on Twitter, everyone can get on YouTube.

因此，任何人都可以访问 Facebook，每个人都可以访问 Twitter，每个人都可以访问 YouTube。

YouTube comments.

YouTube 评论。

You ever read comments on YouTube video?

您读过 YouTube 视频的评论吗？

I'm sure you have.

我确信你有。

You know how many times I've had to call my mom to tell her to stop reading the YouTube comments?

你知道我有多少次不得不打电话给妈妈让她停止阅读 YouTube 评论吗？

I've had to do the same.

我也必须这样做。

She literally, my mom literally thought that someone who was using a Bill O'Reilly… This was before this last whole Bill O'Reilly thing, maybe a year ago.

她真的，我妈妈真的认为有人在使用比尔·奥莱利……这是在最后整个比尔·奥莱利事件之前，也许一年前。

Somebody was using a Bill O'Reilly picture as their avatar, and my mom thought that Bill O'Reilly was writing racist things to me on YouTube.

有人使用比尔·奥莱利 (Bill O'Reilly) 的照片作为头像，我妈妈认为比尔·奥莱利 (Bill O'Reilly) 在 YouTube 上向我写种族主义言论。

I mean, this is…

我的意思是，这是……

Was he?

他是吗？

Well, actually, in retrospect, it turned out to be him, yeah.

嗯，其实现在回想起来，原来是他啊，是啊。

But this concept of just everyone… We're constantly getting on there, it brings out the worst in us in so many ways.

但这种关于每个人的概念……我们不断地前进，它在很多方面暴露了我们最糟糕的一面。

And by the way, I say that as someone who prefaced the beginning of this by saying it's connected us.

顺便说一句，我是作为一个在开头说它把我们联系在一起的人这么说的。

Look, Twitter and having a phone and all this video, it literally caused a revolution in Egypt.

看，推特、手机和所有这些视频，它确实在埃及引发了一场革命。

It's changing the world for good in many ways, but even look at Egypt.

它在很多方面正在改变世界，甚至看看埃及。

Egypt, they had a democratic election after they got rid of, in effect, the dictator, that lasted for a year and it was much worse and now they have the army in charge again.

埃及，他们在实际上摆脱了持续一年的独裁者后进行了民主选举，情况更糟，现在他们又让军队掌权了。

It's all good, it's all bad, and it's really what you make of it and what you pull out of it.

一切都是好的，都是坏的，而这实际上取决于你从中得到什么以及你从中得到什么。

Final question.

最后一个问题。

You have a very different background from many or all of us, most of all being a professional comedian and being so much on YouTube, but not only.

您的背景与我们许多人或所有人都非常不同，最重要的是您是一名专业喜剧演员，并且经常出现在 YouTube 上，但不仅如此。

What do you think there is that you might understand about the future of liberty that we would not get that you could communicate to us?

您认为关于自由的未来，您可能了解哪些是我们无法与您交流的？

As an interviewer, I just wanna say that's a great last question.

作为面试官，我只想说最后一个问题很好。

That's a good one right there.

那是一个很好的地方。

I think, probably because I'm so in it with young people, there is something, they're feeling something right now.

我想，可能是因为我太喜欢年轻人了，所以他们现在感受到了一些东西。

And I don't mean it purely at the academic level, I think existentially they're feeling… They grew up in this crazy time of everybody tearing each other down all the time endlessly.

我的意思并不是纯粹在学术层面上，我认为他们的存在感……他们是在这个每个人都无休止地互相撕毁的疯狂时代长大的。

It's like we've all been bullied or we were bullies or whatever we all grew up with, that's fine, but they're walking around with this in their pocket all the time.

就好像我们都被欺负过，或者我们是欺凌者，或者我们一起长大的任何东西，那很好，但他们总是带着这个在口袋里走来走去。

And then you throw in a really terrible job that the mainstream media is doing these days, and you throw in fake news and you throw in Trump and they're really having trouble figuring out what's true.

然后你把主流媒体现在所做的非常糟糕的工作扔进去，你把假新闻扔进去，你把特朗普扔进去，他们真的很难弄清楚什么是真实的。

Dave Rubin, thank you very much.

戴夫·鲁宾，非常感谢你。