Conversations with Tyler 2024 Retrospective (Ep. 230)
Thanks to Robin for sponsoring this transcript, and dedicating it to a future generation of listeners including M, E, & T.
感谢 Robin 赞助这份文字记录，并将其献给包括 M、E 和 T 在内的未来一代听众。
‘We love you!’
“我们爱你！”
Help us keep the conversations going in 2025.
帮助我们在 2025 年继续进行对话。
Donate to Conversations with Tyler today.
今天就向与泰勒对话捐款。
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 2024 Conversations with Tyler retrospective, where we look back at past episodes, take listener questions, review Tyler’s pop culture picks — from 2014, in this case — and cover numerous other topics besides.
大家好，欢迎来到 2024 年与泰勒对话回顾展，我们回顾过去的剧集，回答听众的问题，回顾泰勒的流行文化精选 ——从 2014 年开始，在本例中 ——此外还涵盖了许多其他主题。
I’m Jeff Holmes.
我是杰夫·霍姆斯。
I’m one of the producers of Conversations with Tyler.
我是《与泰勒对话》的制片人之一。
Of course, I’m joined with the man himself.
当然，我和这个人本人在一起。
Tyler, welcome.
泰勒，欢迎。
Hello, Jeff.
你好，杰夫。
Thank you for having me on the show.
谢谢你邀请我参加这个节目。
My pleasure.
我的荣幸。
We did 30 episodes this year, Tyler.
泰勒，我们今年拍了 30 集。
It’s not a record, but it’s a pretty full slate.
这不是一张唱片，但它是一张相当完整的石板。
When you look over this list of episodes, how do you feel about it?
当你看完这份剧集列表时，你有何感想？
And there’s the new podcast with Alex Tabarrok.
还有 Alex Tabarrok 的新播客。
That’s right.
这是正确的。
It’s a lot of episodes.
有很多集。
I thought we had a very good year.
我认为我们度过了非常美好的一年。
Each year you think, “Oh, well, it’s not going to be that good this year.” But this was very good.
每年你都会想，“哦，好吧，今年不会那么好。”但这已经很好了。
Only a few weak episodes.
只有一些薄弱的情节。
Yes.
是的。
We’ll get into underrated episodes and most popular, but I’m glad you mentioned The Marginal Revolution Podcast.
我们将进入被低估和最受欢迎的剧集，但我很高兴你提到了边缘革命播客。
We just released the last episode of season 1 this morning that we’re recording this.
今天早上我们刚刚发布了第一季的最后一集，我们正在录制这个节目。
Give the listeners a sense of season 1 of The Marginal Revolution Podcast, what you and Alex are hoping to do.
让听众了解《边缘革命》播客的第一季，这是您和亚历克斯希望做的事情。
Why should they check it out?
他们为什么要检查一下？
We had, what, seven episodes?
我们有，什么，七集？
It’s all economics, unlike Conversations with Tyler.
这都是经济学，不像《与泰勒对话》。
Neither one of us interviews the other.
我们谁也不采访对方。
We go back and forth.
我们来回走动。
Alex and I have worked together now for about 35 years, so we have a good sense of each other, good rapport, and we just dive into economics.
亚历克斯和我已经一起工作了大约 35 年，所以我们对彼此有很好的了解，关系融洽，而且我们只是深入研究经济学。
A bit like Conversations with Tyler, we talk as we would talk to each other, pretty much, so it’s like a window into actual conversations.
有点像与泰勒的对话，我们的谈话就像我们互相交谈一样，所以它就像一个进入实际对话的窗口。
Yes.
是的。
For me, an alternate title of it was going to be GMU Lunch.
对我来说，它的另一个标题是 GMU 午餐。
Because I think it captures the spirit of you two, sometimes with a group of other professors, who are just like-minded folks going out and having lunch and talking about a topic.
因为我认为它抓住了你们两个的精神，有时是和一群其他教授一起，他们只是志同道合的人出去吃午饭，谈论一个话题。
There’s more shrieking at lunch because you have Bryan Caplan and Robin Hanson there.
午餐时尖叫声更多，因为那里有布莱恩·卡普兰和罗宾·汉森。
But it’s like the calm version of GMU lunch, the calm, cooperative version.
但这就像 GMU 午餐的平静版本，平静、合作的版本。
Alex, on his post on the options pricing theory episode today, also asked people to comment with ideas for season 2.
亚历克斯今天在他关于期权定价理论一集的帖子中，还要求人们评论第二季的想法。
So if you want to propose a topic for season 2 of The Marginal Revolution Podcast, head over to the Marginal Revolution blog and find that post and leave a comment there.
因此，如果您想为《边际革命》播客第二季提出主题，请前往《边际革命》博客，找到该帖子并在那里发表评论。
Just to be clear, Conversations with Tyler will continue as it has been, and we hope to do even more episodes.
需要明确的是，《与泰勒的对话》将一如既往地继续，我们希望制作更多剧集。
No basic change in this product.
该产品没有基本变化。
On the most downloaded episodes of 2024
2024 年下载次数最多的剧集
All right.
好吧。
Returning to CWT, let’s go over top episodes.
回到 CWT，让我们回顾一下热门剧集。
First, top by download.
首先，通过下载顶。
I know the answer; you don’t.
我知道答案；你不知道。
But as you look over the 29 episodes — it’s 30 including this one — which one do you think was our most downloaded episode this year?
但是，当您查看 29 集 （包括这一集在内共有 30 集）时，您认为哪一集是我们今年下载次数最多的集？
We’re talking about just audio downloads.
我们谈论的只是音频下载。
We’re not counting YouTube.
我们没有把 YouTube 算在内。
Well, to paraphrase Peter Thiel, I’ll say never bet against Peter Thiel.
好吧，套用彼得·泰尔的话，我会说永远不要对彼得·泰尔下注。
He likes to say, “Never bet against Elon Musk.” I think Peter typically is the most downloaded episode for many people, and that’s my pick.
他喜欢说：“永远不要与埃隆·马斯克打赌。”我认为彼得通常是许多人下载次数最多的一集，这就是我的选择。
That bet pays off.
这个赌注得到了回报。
He is number one.
他是第一。
He broke the first-day, first-week listening records for the show.
他打破了该节目首日、首周的收听记录。
Actually, several people broke listening records, but he’s on top.
事实上，有几个人打破了收听记录，但他名列前茅。
Jon Haidt would be my number-two pick, which was contentious.
乔恩·海特（Jon Haidt）将是我的第二选择，这是有争议的。
People love fights, arguments, debate, different from a lot of the other episodes, hot topics.
人们喜欢打斗、争论、辩论，这与许多其他剧集、热门话题不同。
Jon took that all in very good spirits.
乔恩心情很好地接受了这一切。
Yes.
是的。
Jonathan Haidt is number two, so you’re two for two.
乔纳森·海特（Jonathan Haidt）排名第二，所以你们是二对二。
I’m two for two, but I —
我是二对二，但我 ——
Do you want to try to round out the top five, or maybe the top three?
您想尝试进入前五名，还是前三名？
I think they’re pretty predictable through the top three.
我认为他们进入前三名是很容易预测的。
I think I’m just guessing here, but Marc Andreessen is always a good pick to be a top download.
我想我只是在这里猜测，但马克·安德森 (Marc Andreessen) 始终是热门下载的不错选择。
Am I right?
我说得对吗？
You’re wrong because keep in mind, that was a panel audio —
你错了，因为请记住，那是面板音频 -
Oh, that’s right, yes.
哦，原来如此，是的。
— of the a16z event, so that’s not a full-on Conversations with Tyler episode.
——a16z 事件的内容，所以这不是完整的《与泰勒对话》一集。
So he did not make the top five.
所以他没有进入前五名。
What would be another guess?
另一种猜测会是什么？
Kyla Scanlon?
凯拉·斯坎伦？
I don’t know.
我不知道。
After that, it’s hard for me to say.
之后，我就很难说了。
Nate Silver, I guess, would be my guess.
我想，内特·西尔弗（Nate Silver）就是我的猜测。
Tobi Lütke?
托比·卢特克？
Nate Silver.
内特·西尔弗.
You threw out a couple names.
你扔掉了几个名字。
You’re hedging a little bit, but I’m going to take Nate Silver.
你有点对冲，但我会选择内特·西尔弗。
That was number three.
那是第三名。
And then rounding out the top five: Number four was Patrick McKenzie, number five was Paul Bloom.
然后进入前五名：第四名是帕特里克·麦肯齐，第五名是保罗·布鲁姆。
All of those are very close, within maybe 1,000 downloads of each other.
所有这些都非常接近，彼此的下载量大约在 1,000 次之内。
We got a —
我们得到了一个 —
We’re pleasing people too much.
我们太取悦别人了。
Is that the lesson?
这就是教训吗？
Maybe so.
也许是这样。
I sent out an email to our newsletter about this, and I think you have to say it’s a little predictable.
我向我们的时事通讯发送了一封关于此事的电子邮件，我想你不得不说这有点可预测。
It only gets maybe a little eclectic towards the end, but this was very much fan service, I think, these top five.
只是到最后可能会有点不拘一格，但我认为这都是粉丝服务，这前五名。
It would be nice to see maybe a less well-known person cracking that top five, but something for us to aspire to next year.
很高兴看到一个不太知名的人进入前五名，但这是我们明年渴望实现的目标。
On the underrated episodes of 2024
2024 年被低估的剧集
Moving on to underrated episodes, episodes that weren’t necessarily breaking download records but are still very, very good.
接下来是被低估的剧集，这些剧集不一定会打破下载记录，但仍然非常非常好。
You could think of them as a personal favorite.
您可以将它们视为个人最爱。
I’ve got my picks.
我有我的选择。
Do you want to throw out a couple?
你想扔掉一对吗？
One underrated episode was Masaaki Suzuki because most people don’t know enough about Bach to really love what he said.
铃木正明的一集被低估了，因为大多数人对巴赫的了解不够，无法真正喜欢他所说的。
Plus, he had an accent; that may hurt downloads a bit.
另外，他还有口音。这可能会稍微影响下载。
But that one, I was very fond of.
但那个，我非常喜欢。
Fareed Zakaria, you got to see the real Fareed.
法里德·扎卡里亚，你一定要看看真正的法里德。
Even his son loved the episode.
甚至他的儿子也喜欢这一集。
I don’t know how many downloads it got, but it has to be underrated.
我不知道它有多少下载量，但它肯定被低估了。
Michael Nielsen.
迈克尔·尼尔森。
Most are underrated.
大多数都被低估了。
Tom Tugendhat, who did not make it to be head of the Conservative Party, but someday still might and certainly ought to be.
汤姆·图根哈特（Tom Tugendhat）未能成为保守党党魁，但有一天仍然可能而且肯定应该成为保守党党魁。
Yes, those are good picks.
是的，这些都是不错的选择。
Masaaki Suzuki was a fan mention as well, a favorite of my wife’s, so check that one out if you haven’t.
铃木正明也被粉丝提及，是我妻子的最爱，所以如果你还没有的话，请检查一下。
I would also throw out Stephen Kotkin, so pretty recent episode.
我也会扔掉斯蒂芬科特金，最近的一集。
Kotkin performed very well.
科特金表现非常出色。
That’s one of the best episodes of all time.
这是有史以来最好的剧集之一。
It clearly just established itself in the pantheon.
显然它刚刚在万神殿中站稳了脚跟。
Think about Lazarus Lake in the past, or Richard Prum, which were some of my favorites.
想想过去的拉扎勒斯湖，或者理查德·普鲁姆，它们都是我的最爱。
Just as soon as you listen to it, it’s a clear favorite.
只要你一听，它显然就是你的最爱。
If you check out the YouTube comments, many people are commenting that it’s their favorite Stephen Kotkin interview.
如果你查看 YouTube 评论，很多人都评论说这是他们最喜欢的斯蒂芬·科特金 (Stephen Kotkin) 采访。
And people are still listening, so that will climb in the numbers.
人们仍在倾听，因此人数将会攀升。
Paula Byrne was a tremendous episode.
保拉·伯恩是一个精彩的插曲。
Paula Byrne was another pick of mine.
保拉·伯恩是我的另一个选择。
That one just released last week, but it’s definitely tracking low.
该产品上周刚刚发布，但它肯定处于低位。
I would say, look, you’ve got Hardy’s marriages, why they fell apart, couples counseling.
我会说，看，你已经了解了哈代的婚姻，他们为什么破裂，夫妻咨询。
What’s not to love about listening to someone who does couples therapy?
有什么理由不喜欢听进行夫妻治疗的人的演讲呢？
Also the story of the poison pen letters and how she flushed out this maybe jealous academic who was harassing her via very cleverly written letters and mailing them to her and other people.
还有毒笔信件的故事，以及她如何通过写得非常巧妙的信件并将其邮寄给她和其他人来赶走这位可能是嫉妒的学者。
It’s the funniest CWT episode of all time, I think.
我认为这是 CWT 有史以来最有趣的一集。
She’s the one who’s funny, not me.
有趣的是她，不是我。
Yes.
是的。
Producer Sam Alburger told me after the recording that it’s probably the most he’s heard you laugh in an episode, and he was cracking up as well during it.
制片人萨姆·阿尔伯格在录音后告诉我，这可能是他在一集中听到你笑得最多的一次，而且他在这期间也笑得很开心。
Check that one out.
检查一下那个。
The last one I had was Alan Taylor.
我的最后一位是艾伦·泰勒。
I joke because I feel like Alan Taylor is also squarely in the CWT area of interest.
我开玩笑是因为我觉得 Alan Taylor 也完全属于 CWT 感兴趣的领域。
It’s history.
这是历史。
This episode covers Revolutionary War history, War of 1812.
本集讲述独立战争历史，即 1812 年战争。
We’ve got a lot of males, I think a lot of dads.
我们有很多男性，我想有很多爸爸。
What dad doesn’t love military history, speaking as a dad myself?
作为一个父亲，哪个父亲不喜欢军事历史呢？
Check out Alan Taylor.
看看艾伦·泰勒。
Another one I’ll throw out that was mentioned by fans is Kyla Scanlon.
我要扔掉的另一位粉丝提到的人是凯拉·斯坎伦(Kyla Scanlon)。
I’m not sure if she cracked the top 10, but she was mentioned by fans.
我不确定她是否进入了前十名，但粉丝们提到了她。
And people particularly appreciated how she turned the tables on you, and it ended up being an interview of you almost as much as it was an interview of Kyla.
人们特别欣赏她如何扭转局面，最终成为对你的采访，几乎和对凯拉的采访一样。
Great rapport and charisma.
良好的融洽关系和魅力。
She of course is a big star and will continue to climb.
她当然是大明星，而且还会继续攀登。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Those were my picks.
这些是我的选择。
Listeners, if you have yours, you can still send them in.
听众们，如果您有的话，您仍然可以将它们发送进来。
Let me know.
让我知道。
I’m always curious to hear which ones spoke to people.
我总是很好奇哪些人与人交谈。
You could throw —
你可以扔 —
I like the Christopher Kirchhoff episode and how he never said the word “um.” You might edit out an “um” here and there.
我喜欢克里斯托弗·基尔霍夫那一集，以及他从不说“嗯”这个词的方式。你可以在这里或那里编辑掉“嗯”。
With Christopher, you don’t need to edit.
有了克里斯托弗，你不需要编辑。
It’s just, psh, you get it, word for word.
只是，嘘，你明白了，逐字逐句。
Yes.
是的。
I love that episode.
我喜欢那一集。
For me, it was something I know very little about.
对我来说，这是我知之甚少的事情。
It was one of those —
这是其中之一——
This is military technology, for those of you who don’t know.
对于那些不知道的人来说，这是军事技术。
Yes.
是的。
The world of procurement and defense and defense technology is not something I know a lot about.
我对采购、国防和国防技术领域了解不多。
It is one of those just big door-opening episodes, or it was for me at least.
这是那些打开大门的剧集之一，或者至少对我来说是这样。
And becoming increasingly important, I’m sorry to say, but it has to.
我很遗憾地说，它变得越来越重要，但它必须如此。
On listener questions
关于听众提问
Absolutely.
绝对的。
All right, let’s jump into some listener questions.
好吧，让我们开始讨论一些听众问题。
We have a lot, so let’s —
我们有很多，所以让我们 ——
We had this one guy who wrote a long document of very good, very detailed questions for me, and he sent it to you.
我们有一个人为我写了一份很长的文件，其中包含非常好的、非常详细的问题，然后他将其发送给您。
Yes.
是的。
His name’s David Cramer.
他的名字叫大卫·克莱默。
I’ve got three questions I pulled out.
我提出了三个问题。
He probably has, I don’t know, 30 questions.
我不知道，他可能有 30 个问题。
They’re all very good.
他们都很好。
We’ll link to it in the transcript.
我们将在文字记录中链接到它。
First question from David Cramer: “I know you think that cinema is the great art medium of the 20th century.
大卫·克莱默 (David Cramer) 提出第一个问题：“我知道您认为电影是 20 世纪最伟大的艺术媒介。
Do you think there’s a chance for video games to eclipse that?” He asked a couple questions about video games, and I like — it’s something we don’t talk about on the show a lot, but it’s something I think about too.
你认为电子游戏有机会超越这一点吗？”他问了几个关于电子游戏的问题，我喜欢——这是我们在节目中不常谈论的问题，但也是我思考的问题。
On their current trajectory, I don’t see that happening.
按照他们目前的轨迹，我不认为这种情况会发生。
I even have people in video games telling me that the seminal games are now all a bit old, and it’s becoming more derivative.
甚至有视频游戏领域的人告诉我，那些具有开创性的游戏现在都有点过时了，而且变得越来越衍生。
There’s something about video games — it’s too context specific to the person playing it and doing it.
电子游戏有一些东西 ——它对于玩游戏和玩游戏的人来说太特定了。
It doesn’t quite manage to generate narrative and vision in a way that is intersubjectively understandable, where it could become part of the canon.
它并不能完全以主体间可理解的方式产生叙事和愿景，从而成为经典的一部分。
I’ll say no on that one.
我对此不会说。
But you don’t play video games.
但你不玩电子游戏。
No. They’ve had a lot of time to establish themselves aesthetically.
不，他们花了很多时间来确立自己的审美观。
Again, the numbers on usage, revenue, everything off the charts.
再说一遍，使用量、收入等一切数据都打破了记录。
That, one cannot deny.
对此，人们无法否认。
But in these other areas, I don’t really see that they’re climbing or have established much of anything.
但在其他领域，我并没有真正看到他们正在攀登或建立了很多东西。
Well, one way you could think about the success of video games is how vibrant the subcultures are around video games.
好吧，你可以通过一种方式来看待电子游戏的成功，那就是电子游戏周围的亚文化有多么活跃。
One thing that I get immense joy from, particularly on YouTube, is there are so many subgenres of criticism or analysis on YouTube about video games.
让我感到无比高兴的一件事是，尤其是在 YouTube 上，YouTube 上有很多关于视频游戏的批评或分析。
I think there’s something, for me, very resonant about today where, for instance, there’s YouTube channels that just take a look at these big virtual worlds that are created in video games.
我认为今天对我来说，有一些东西非常能引起共鸣，例如，YouTube 频道只关注视频游戏中创建的这些大型虚拟世界。
They say, “Where do all the rivers go?” They try to map the river systems, or they try to map the power infrastructure.
他们说：“所有的河流都流向哪里？”他们尝试绘制河流系统地图，或者尝试绘制电力基础设施地图。
There’s this feeling you can get where, as you’re exploring these worlds, you’re always wondering, was this intentional or was this an accident?
当你探索这些世界时，你总是会想，这是故意的还是意外？
It can give you a weird feeling of almost the transcendental or something, that you’re walking around wondering, was this touched by the creator?
它会给你一种近乎超验的奇怪感觉，让你四处走动，想知道这是不是被创造者感动了？
I find so many of those subgenres so interesting, even if I never play the games myself.
我发现很多这样的子类型都很有趣，即使我自己从来没有玩过这些游戏。
I think actually the criticisms and the analysis that you see is really high quality in a way that I don’t think many people appreciate outside of video games.
我认为实际上你看到的批评和分析的质量非常高，我认为电子游戏之外的人不会欣赏这些。
I would sooner say that shows the growth of YouTube criticism as an amazing genre, which it is.
我想说的是，这表明 YouTube 批评作为一种令人惊叹的类型的发展，事实也确实如此。
In classical music, there can be recordings that sell 300, 400 copies at most.
在古典音乐中，有的唱片最多可以卖出300、400张。
Then the number of people who listen to someone doing the critical review of the recording can be tens or even hundreds of thousands.
那么听某人对录音进行批判性评论的人数可能会达到数万甚至数十万。
That’s weird, right?
这很奇怪，对吧？
But I think that’s the future.
但我认为这就是未来。
Are there any people who do critical reviews of CWTs on YouTube?
YouTube 上有人对 CWT 进行批评性评论吗？
Is that a genre yet?
这还是一个流派吗？
I haven’t encountered it, but I heartily encourage it.
我没有遇到过，但我衷心鼓励。
“Which sweater did Tyler bring this time?” would be the start.
“泰勒这次带来了哪件毛衣？”将是开始。
They talked about all the weird little things in the episode.
他们谈论了这一集中所有奇怪的小事情。
Yes.
是的。
I would subscribe to that channel.
我会订阅该频道。
It would get more listens than an actual episode, perhaps, right?
也许它会比实际剧集获得更多的收听量，对吗？
Possibly so.
可能是这样。
I think it touches on some of the things that we’ve mentioned, even with LLMs and EconGOAT, the site that we created last year where we published your book and had this AI companion where — more and more, you can engage with a thing without consuming the thing.
我认为它触及了我们提到的一些事情，即使是法学硕士和 EconGOAT，我们去年创建的网站，我们在那里出版了你的书，并有这个人工智能伴侣，在那里 - 越来越多，你可以在不消耗东西的情况下参与其中。
It might be the criticism on YouTube, or it might be that you ask the LLM to give you the summary, and you might get more value out of the derivative product than the product itself.
可能是YouTube上的批评，也可能是你要求LLM给你总结，你可能会从衍生产品中获得比产品本身更多的价值。
How about YouTube criticisms of LLMs giving you derivative summaries?
YouTube 对法学硕士为您提供派生摘要的批评怎么样？
We’ll just keep following that all the way down.
我们将继续关注这一点。
Second question from David Kramer: “Which cultural code, once cracked, caused the strongest update for you, either from admiration to horror or vice versa?”
大卫·克莱默的第二个问题：“哪种文化密码一旦被破解，就会给你带来最强烈的更新，无论是从钦佩到恐惧，还是反之亦然？”
Well, that’s going to be something when you’re young, almost certainly.
嗯，几乎可以肯定，当你年轻的时候，这会是一些事情。
When I moved to Germany when I was, I guess, 22 years old, to spend a year there, I had hardly ever been abroad before.
当我搬到德国时，我猜是 22 岁，在那里呆了一年，之前我几乎从未出过国。
I’d been to Oxford and London, but in a way, that doesn’t count.
我去过牛津和伦敦，但在某种程度上，那不算数。
Just had to live there, and that was incredible.
只是必须住在那里，这太不可思议了。
Every day there were new puzzles to think about and figure out.
每天都有新的难题需要思考和解决。
I would say in the mid-’80s, West Germany then, as we called it, was at a kind of peak.
我想说的是，在 80 年代中期，当时我们所说的西德正处于某种顶峰。
That is, you could go there and wonder, was this a better country, better way of life than the United States?
也就是说，你可以去那里想知道，这是一个比美国更好的国家、更好的生活方式吗？
You wouldn’t be sure.
你不确定。
You wouldn’t really ask that question today.
今天你不会真的问这个问题。
Germany is in trouble in a number of regards.
德国在很多方面都陷入了困境。
That was just a fantastic year and the most thought-provoking year of my life.
那是美妙的一年，也是我一生中最发人深省的一年。
It was all about cultural codes.
这一切都与文化密码有关。
I also leased a car and drove around a lot to Switzerland, the Netherlands, France of course, other places.
我还租了一辆车，开车去了瑞士、荷兰、法国，当然还有其他地方。
Oh, I hadn’t heard that part of that.
哦，我没听过那部分。
You leased a car?
你租了一辆车吗？
Well, the dollar was very strong back then.
嗯，当时美元非常坚挺。
It was right before it plummeted.
就在它暴跌之前。
When I started in Germany, it was 3.45 marks to the dollar, which people now will forget, but that was an incredible exchange rate.
当我刚到德国时，马克兑换美元的汇率是 3.45 马克，现在人们会忘记这一点，但那是一个令人难以置信的汇率。
Like 2X for the dollar, what it should have been by PPP.
就像美元的 2 倍一样，按购买力平价计算应该是这样的。
Last question from David Kramer: “Which major branch of traditional art do you have the least native” — or I think I would say intrinsic — “appreciation for?”
大卫·克莱默的最后一个问题是：“你对传统艺术的哪一个主要分支最缺乏本土化” —— 或者我想我会说内在的 —— “欣赏？”
Well, if by art, that includes music, I think Renaissance music, I’m more skeptical of than many people.
好吧，如果按艺术来说，包括音乐，我认为文艺复兴音乐，我比许多人更持怀疑态度。
I think it’s not until Monteverdi that music truly starts to reach its peaks, that the means are just too limited.
我认为直到蒙特威尔第音乐才真正开始达到顶峰，手段太有限了。
I really quite like or even love William Byrd, Palestrina.
我真的很喜欢甚至爱威廉·伯德，帕莱斯特里纳。
But at the end of the day, for me in music, there is a break with Monteverdi and then Bach, or I just think it attains much higher levels.
但归根结底，对我来说，在音乐方面，先是与蒙特威尔第，然后是巴赫，或者我只是认为它达到了更高的水平。
A number of people I know will wince to hear me say this, but it is my view.
我认识的很多人听到我这么说都会皱起眉头，但这是我的观点。
I just recommended some Renaissance church music to someone.
我刚刚向某人推荐了一些文艺复兴时期的教堂音乐。
It’s one I feel like I actually have a higher-than-average appreciation for, which feels weird for me to say that.
我觉得我实际上对它的欣赏高于平均水平，但我这么说感觉很奇怪。
I don’t feel like I have a deep appreciation of many genres of music.
我觉得我对很多音乐流派都没有深入的欣赏。
I think you just linked to this again, but thanks to the game — I’ve mentioned this on the podcast at least a couple of times — thanks to, I think it was Civilization IV, I was playing that game, and they play a lot of Renaissance music during the Renaissance period of the game.
我想你刚刚又链接到了这个，但是感谢游戏 —— 我在播客上至少提到过几次 —— 感谢，我认为这是《文明IV》，我正在玩那个游戏，他们在游戏的文艺复兴时期播放了很多文艺复兴时期的音乐。
Which composers do they play?
他们演奏哪些作曲家的作品？
A lot of choral works —
很多合唱作品 —
That’s what most of it would be.
这就是大部分的情况。
— like Miserere, which I find really transportive.
——就像《Miserere》一样，我觉得它真的很让人感动。
That’s a very good work.
这是一个非常好的作品。
The music in general is very good.
总体来说音乐非常好。
Actually, a friend of mine was asking for some recommendations.
事实上，我的一个朋友正在寻求一些建议。
I said, “Check these out.”
我说：“看看这些。”
All right, let’s see.
好吧，让我们看看。
One listener, Tom, emailed and just had a bunch of questions about demographics and analytics stuff, which I can answer.
一位听众汤姆发了一封电子邮件，提出了一系列有关人口统计和分析的问题，我可以回答这些问题。
“How many people bail on episodes?” On average, people listen to about two-thirds of the episodes.
“有多少人在剧集中保释？”平均而言，人们收听了大约三分之二的剧集。
When you aggregate everyone’s drop-off, on average people are listening to about two-thirds of the episode, which is pretty good.
当你汇总每个人的流失情况时，平均而言，人们正在听大约三分之二的剧集，这相当不错。
That’s been very stable for many years.
多年来一直非常稳定。
“Delta between most popular and least popular episodes.” YouTube is changing this.
“最受欢迎和最不受欢迎的剧集之间的差异。” YouTube 正在改变这一现状。
Certainly, the algorithm drives virality or popularity more on YouTube than the podcast.
当然，与播客相比，该算法在 YouTube 上更能推动病毒式传播或流行。
If you just talk about audio downloads, the delta is not large.
如果仅谈论音频下载，增量并不大。
You might have a 20 percent or 30 percent difference in downloads in, say, the first week or first month, between Peter Thiel, who was number one this year, and the middle of the pack.
比如说，第一周或第一个月，今年排名第一的 Peter Thiel 和排名中间的下载量可能存在 20% 或 30% 的差异。
And even at the bottom of the pack, it’s not much more of that.
即使在最底层，也仅此而已。
On YouTube, it can be 10 times as many downloads just because once you get caught up in the algorithm on YouTube, it sweeps you away.
在 YouTube 上，下载量可能是原来的 10 倍，因为一旦你陷入 YouTube 的算法中，它就会让你不知所措。
Right now, someone like Stephen Kotkin has 10 times the views of Paula Byrne just because Kotkin took off like wildfire, and not as many people are checking out Paula Byrne.
现在，像史蒂芬·科特金这样的人的观点是保拉·伯恩的十倍，只是因为科特金像野火一样腾飞，而没有那么多人关注保拉·伯恩。
“Success rate in getting potential guests to accept,” probably 80 percent.
“让潜在客人接受的成功率”大概是80%。
Implicitly, it’s the people we don’t ask, because we don’t have an in with them or we don’t know how to reach them, that would raise that failure rate higher.
隐含地，正是我们不询问的人，因为我们与他们没有联系，或者我们不知道如何联系他们，这会提高失败率。
For the most part, when we actually get in touch with someone, they say yes.
大多数情况下，当我们真正与某人联系时，他们都会答应。
There are a few exceptions to that.
但也有一些例外。
Is it hopeless to try Magnus again?
再次尝试马格努斯是没有希望了吗？
Someone asked about Magnus.
有人问起马格努斯。
We’ve gotten very close, I think in front of him, I think he’s seen it.
我们已经非常接近了，我想在他面前，我想他已经看到了。
Or is that your impression?
或者说这就是你的印象？
I’m not sure.
我不知道。
Or his father has, which probably is more useful, perhaps.
或者他的父亲有，这可能更有用。
I don’t know.
我不知道。
Yes, we can certainly try again.
是的，我们当然可以再试一次。
Let’s try again with Magnus.
让我们和马格努斯一起再试一次。
I’m willing to fly to him.
我愿意飞到他身边。
Magnus, if you’re hearing this —
马格努斯，如果你听到这个 ——
He’s not hearing it.
他没有听到。
I’m hearing him, but he’s not hearing this.
我听到了他的声音，但他没有听到这个。
If someone knows Magnus, has a connection, please let us know.
如果有人认识 Magnus，有联系，请告诉我们。
Similarly with Paul McCartney, someone was asking about Paul McCartney.
与保罗·麦卡特尼类似，有人在询问保罗·麦卡特尼。
That’s the true long shot, though.
不过，这才是真正的远景。
I don’t think we’ve gotten anywhere near Paul McCartney.
我认为我们还没有接近保罗·麦卡特尼。
If you happen to know Paul, put us in touch.
如果您碰巧认识保罗，请与我们联系。
Put us in touch.
让我们保持联系。
We’re more than happy to have him on.
我们非常高兴他能上场。
“How often do we get solicitations from people hoping to be guests?” Now it’s like every day.
“我们多久会收到希望成为客人的人的邀请？”现在就像每天一样。
I’m sure you get some to your email.
我相信您的电子邮件中会收到一些信息。
We get some to the generic —
我们得到一些通用的 ——
Every weekday, for sure.
每个工作日，当然。
— to the CWT email.
— 发送至 CWT 电子邮件。
They’re typically boring.
他们通常很无聊。
There’s, “Here’s my new book.
有，“这是我的新书。
You must think this is a hot topic because corporate America is talking about it.” “Here’s my new book on the impact of tech on America’s youth” or something.
你一定认为这是一个热门话题，因为美国企业界正在谈论它。” “这是我关于科技对美国年轻人影响的新书”之类的。
Just very cliché, generic topics.
只是非常陈词滥调、通用的主题。
Nothing against the people pitching them, but they’re usually not at all targeted to this show.
没有什么反对推销他们的人，但他们通常根本不是这个节目的目标。
They’re going for more of a topical business or news podcast than us specifically.
他们比我们更喜欢热门商业或新闻播客。
If the person is actually targeting us more specifically, and it’s clear they’ve actually done a little bit of homework about the show, I will definitely look at it and take a closer look at the guest.
如果这个人确实是针对我们更具体的，而且很明显他们确实对节目做了一些功课，我肯定会看一下并仔细观察这位嘉宾。
But when it’s a generic one, I don’t even spend a second on it.
但当它是通用的时，我什至不会花一秒钟在上面。
I delete it immediately.
我立即删除它。
I know that’s tough.
我知道这很难。
I know when you’re pitching lots of shows, that’s tough to do.
我知道当你要推销很多节目时，这很难做到。
They should make a case that the person is an impressive polymath, even if they’ve done nothing and have no book.
他们应该证明这个人是一位令人印象深刻的博学多才，即使他们什么也没做过，也没有书。
That, we would consider.
我们会考虑这一点。
Or the person has done something very strange, perhaps with their body.
或者这个人做了一些非常奇怪的事情，也许是用他们的身体。
We’re trying to get this woman who has summited all 14 eight-thousander peaks.
我们正在努力找到这位登上了全部 14 座八千山峰的女性。
We should try her again.
我们应该再试试她。
I know she didn’t respond, but I don’t think it’s a waste of time.
我知道她没有回应，但我不认为这是浪费时间。
All right.
好的。
“How would you rate the current development of your previous ideas that you’ve popularized on the blog?
“您如何评价您之前在博客上推广的想法的当前发展？
How have subsequent events vindicated or called into question ideas such as The Great Stagnation, Average Is Over, state capacity libertarianism?” That’s from G.K.
随后发生的事件如何证明或质疑诸如“大停滞”、“平均已结束”、“国家能力自由主义”等思想？”这是来自 G.K.
The Great Stagnation I think was seen as radical when I stated it in 2011.
当我在 2011 年提出“大停滞”时，我认为它被认为是激进的。
It’s now widely considered to have been true.
现在人们普遍认为这是真的。
I think it’s over.
我想一切都结束了。
Not everyone thinks it’s over.
并非所有人都认为一切都结束了。
I think with AI and advances in biomedical science, it ended a few years ago.
我认为随着人工智能和生物医学的进步，这种情况在几年前就结束了。
I think that one turned out very well, basically.
我认为基本上结果非常好。
Average Is Over is a story in the works.
《平均已结束》是一个正在创作的故事。
Will artificial intelligence boost or lower income inequality?
人工智能会加剧还是减少收入不平等？
That, we don’t know yet.
我们还不知道。
The predictions I made in my book Average Is Over, that AI would be the next big thing and it would all be about how well can you work with AI — that’s done very, very well.
我在《平均已经结束》一书中做出的预测是，人工智能将成为下一个重大事件，而这一切都取决于你能如何很好地使用人工智能 ——这已经做得非常非常好。
I think I deserve more credit for those predictions, in fact.
事实上，我认为我的这些预测值得更多的赞扬。
State capacity libertarianism, I still hear the phrase all the time.
国家能力自由主义，我仍然经常听到这个词。
Like, Vivek once reached out to me a few months ago, and he said, “Oh, I love state capacity libertarianism.
就像，维韦克几个月前曾经联系过我，他说：“哦，我喜欢国家能力自由主义。
Let’s meet and talk about this.” Now, we’ll see what comes of that.
我们见面谈谈这个吧。”现在，我们来看看会发生什么。
When I wrote that post, I was convinced this was going nowhere, and it’s still a thing.
当我写那篇文章时，我确信这不会有任何进展，但它仍然是一件事。
I’m not saying it’s a thing that will succeed.
我并不是说这是一件会成功的事情。
I think as libertarianism more narrowly has scattered and diffused, it’s one of the strands that’s still alive.
我认为，随着自由主义在更狭隘的范围内分散和扩散，它是仍然存在的一股力量。
I’m hopeful.
我充满希望。
Another question: “You are in a sense both an insider and an outsider to the econ profession.
另一个问题：“从某种意义上说，您对于经济行业来说既是内部人士，又是外部人士。
What parts of the profession do you feel are most underrated and most overrated?”
您认为这个职业的哪些部分最被低估和最被高估？”
I think I’m mainly just an outsider, not an insider.
我认为我主要只是一个局外人，而不是局内人。
The thing that is most overrated is, just entry barriers in terms of bureaucratization are higher and higher.
最被高估的是，官僚化的准入门槛越来越高。
You have to have gone to a very good undergraduate school, have letters of recommendation from highly credible people, maybe have done a pre-doc, and that’s ruining it for people.
你必须上过一所非常好的本科学校，有非常可信的人的推荐信，也许已经完成了博士预科课程，但这对人们来说是毁了它。
I know at least five truly talented individuals who were teenagers, at first thought they wanted to become economists, then learned what was involved and just thought, “I’ll never really quite be able to get anything done going this path.” Now they’re all doing other things.
我认识至少有五个真正有才华的人，他们在青少年时期，起初以为自己想成为经济学家，然后了解了其中涉及的内容，然后想：“沿着这条路，我永远无法真正完成任何事情。”现在他们都在做其他事情。
In no case do I feel like I should be nagging them, telling them, “Oh, you really should have done economics.” They probably shouldn’t have.
在任何情况下，我都不觉得我应该唠叨他们，告诉他们，“哦，你真的应该学经济学。”他们可能不应该这样做。
That’s the biggest problem.
这是最大的问题。
Many people are aware of it, but it’s one of these “I’m aware of it and not going to do anything about it” sorts of issues.
很多人都意识到了这一点，但这是“我意识到了这一点，但不会采取任何行动”之类的问题之一。
Now, what’s most underrated?
现在，什么是最被低估的？
I don’t know.
我不知道。
The quality of the median paper is pretty high.
中值纸张的质量相当高。
I don’t know if it’s underrated.
不知道是不是被低估了。
Just the standards and the care you have to put into it, but that’s related to the entry barriers being higher.
只是你必须投入的标准和关注，但这与更高的进入门槛有关。
It’s a tradeoff.
这是一个权衡。
I think economics is a lot less fun and actually less impactful than it used to be.
我认为经济学比以前少了很多乐趣，而且影响力实际上也少了很多。
The Biden administration relied much less on economists than the Obama administration did.
拜登政府对经济学家的依赖远低于奥巴马政府。
Trump, we’ll see what happens, but I would bet against academic economists being highly influential there — maybe in very indirect, roundabout ways, but not in the standard sense that they’re given credit and invited in on the red carpet.
特朗普，我们会看看会发生什么，但我敢打赌，学院派经济学家不会在那里有很大的影响力——也许是以非常间接、迂回的方式，但不是标准意义上的，即他们得到认可并被邀请走上红地毯。
As a profession, we’re losing status and influence.
作为一个职业，我们正在失去地位和影响力。
And that should be a radical wake-up call, and I don’t see that we’re heeding it.
这应该是一个彻底的警钟，但我认为我们没有注意到它。
We’re doubling down on previous strategies, and we’re going to regret that.
我们在之前的策略上加倍努力，我们会后悔的。
A lot more economists should be doing podcasts, is one way to put it.
一种说法是，应该有更多的经济学家做播客。
Why should they not be excellent at it if they’re smart people who have things to say, they have plenty of experience giving seminars, teaching?
如果他们是聪明人，有话要说，有丰富的举办研讨会和教学的经验，为什么他们不能在这方面表现出色呢？
They should be great at doing podcasts.
他们应该很擅长做播客。
A lot of them are not, frankly, looking back at past history.
坦率地说，他们中的很多人并没有回顾过去的历史。
That itself tells you something.
这本身就告诉了你一些事情。
Relatedly, another question, from Steve: “How should places such as the Mercatus Center measure success?” He talks about the Cato Institute.
与此相关的是，史蒂夫提出的另一个问题：“像莫卡特斯中心这样的地方应该如何衡量成功？”他谈到了卡托研究所。
In their report, they list a bunch of their outputs, op-eds, congressional meetings, so on.
在他们的报告中，他们列出了一系列的成果、专栏文章、国会会议等等。
How do you map that to your mission?
您如何将其映射到您的使命？
Well, every nonprofit does and should create reports and metrics, but ultimately my view is, if you’ve really succeeded, you know it without measuring it.
好吧，每个非营利组织都会并且应该创建报告和指标，但最终我的观点是，如果你真的成功了，你无需衡量就知道它。
It’s just obvious.
这是显而易见的。
Take Ralph Nader: I don’t agree with a lot of what Ralph Nader did, but he’s, I think, still around, and he had a big impact.
以拉尔夫·纳德（Ralph Nader）为例：我不同意拉尔夫·纳德所做的很多事情，但我认为他仍然存在，而且他产生了很大的影响。
I could go out and measure Ralph Nader in different ways, but I don’t need to.
我可以出去用不同的方式衡量拉尔夫纳德，但我不需要这样做。
Peter Singer — has Peter Singer gotten his way on most issues?
彼得·辛格（Peter Singer）——彼得·辛格（Peter Singer）在大多数问题上都能如愿吗？
I would say no. Has he made many more people vegetarians and probably influenced pro-animal legislation?
我会说不。他是否让更多的人成为素食主义者并可能影响了支持动物的立法？
I would say definitely yes.
我肯定会说是的。
I’ve never measured that.
我从来没有测量过。
It’s when you don’t need to measure that you have real successes.
当你不需要衡量时，你就取得了真正的成功。
What are our successes, say in the past year, at Mercatus that you think you just know it without having to measure it?
例如，过去一年，我们在 Mercatus 取得了哪些成功，您认为您无需衡量就知道它？
We’ve changed minds, changed behaviors or attitudes?
我们改变了想法、改变了行为或态度吗？
Well, it depends what you mean by the phrase “at Mercatus.” Hester Peirce used to work here.
好吧，这取决于您所说的“在 Mercatus”一词的含义。海丝特·皮尔斯曾经在这里工作过。
She studied crypto for us.
她为我们研究加密货币。
She has since become a commissioner at the SEC.
此后，她成为美国证券交易委员会 (SEC) 专员。
Due to her heroic efforts, crypto is still alive and well.
由于她的英勇努力，加密货币仍然存在并且运行良好。
It’s a Hester triumph, not a Mercatus (in the narrow sense) triumph.
这是海丝特的胜利，而不是莫卡图斯（狭义上）的胜利。
That’s exactly the kind of thing we should be trying to do.
这正是我们应该努力做的事情。
Someone said on Twitter recently that — it was Joe Lonsdale — “There’s no limit to what you can achieve if you’re willing not to get much credit for it.” I think that should be our attitude.
最近有人在推特上说 —— 那是乔·朗斯代尔 —— “如果你不愿意因此获得太多荣誉，那么你可以取得的成就是无限的。”我想这应该是我们的态度。
To some extent, it is our attitude.
从某种程度上来说，这就是我们的态度。
What would Mercatus be without its people, to paraphrase —
换句话来说，如果没有它的人民，麦卡图斯会是什么样子——
Someone else.
别人。
All right.
好吧。
“Which guests have had the biggest impact on you in the past year?” That’s from Alan Wright.
“过去一年里，哪些嘉宾对你影响最大？”这是艾伦·赖特写的。
I don’t know.
我不知道。
Impact on me .
对我的影响。
.
。
.
。
Maybe even in your research?
也许甚至在你的研究中？
The collective set of guests take up most of my time.
一群客人占据了我的大部分时间。
That’s impact.
这就是影响。
You couldn’t pin that on any one guest.
你不能把这一点归咎于任何一位客人。
Masaaki Suzuki invited me to his Handel’s Messiah concert on December 20, and I’m going to go.
铃木正明邀请我参加 12 月 20 日他的亨德尔《弥赛亚》音乐会，我要去。
That’s impact, and I’m sure it will be magnificent.
这就是影响，而且我相信它会是巨大的。
That’s wonderful.
太棒了。
Who was your most difficult prep, you think, looking over this list this year?
回顾今年的这份名单，您认为谁是您最困难的准备者？
Most difficult prep.
最困难的准备。
Oh, it’s probably Stephen Kotkin that took the most reading, and then Alan Taylor.
哦，阅读最多的可能是斯蒂芬·科特金，然后是艾伦·泰勒。
They’re the two historians.
他们是两位历史学家。
Almost always, historians are the hardest.
几乎总是历史学家是最难的。
Another difficult prep was Philip Ball, who wrote so many books on science.
另一个困难的准备工作是菲利普·鲍尔（Philip Ball），他写了很多科学书籍。
Science, you can’t prep for.
科学，你无法做好准备。
History, you can just read more books.
历史，你可以多读点书。
If you’re an economist, you know some history anyway through economic history.
如果你是一名经济学家，无论如何你都会通过经济史了解一些历史。
But a body of work in science, it’s like, “Oh, do I start reading a biology text or something?” He was hard as well.
但是在科学方面的工作，就像是，“哦，我要开始阅读生物学文本或其他东西吗？”他也很辛苦。
Another reason Kotkin and Alan Taylor are underrated, then, is you’ve got to make Tyler’s prep worth it.
那么，科特金和艾伦·泰勒被低估的另一个原因是，你必须让泰勒的准备值得。
I learned more from doing those people.
我从那些人身上学到了更多。
Say when I did Joseph Stiglitz, I had already read his major pieces, indeed many of his minor pieces over the years.
比如说，当我创作约瑟夫·斯蒂格利茨时，我已经读过他的主要作品，事实上，多年来我已经读过他的许多次要作品。
It hardly took any prep.
几乎不需要任何准备。
But I learned less, too.
但我学到的东西也更少。
All right.
好吧。
Another guest that’s had a big impact on you, Rick Rubin — this is related to that.
另一位对你影响很大的嘉宾，Rick Rubin ——这与此有关。
“If you were a DJ in a different life, what kind of music would you play and where would you perform?
“如果你在不同的生活中是一名 DJ，你会播放什么样的音乐以及在哪里演出？
Also, what would — same question for DJ Tyrone.” And that’s from Bart Derous.
另外，对于 DJ Tyrone 来说，同样的问题是什么？”这是巴特·德鲁斯写的。
I love music of all sorts.
我喜欢各种音乐。
I’ve done some DJing for Rick.
我为 Rick 做过一些 DJ。
I played for him a lot of what is misnamed “world music,” but from different countries such as Madagascar or Pygmy music or Algerian rap or whatever.
我为他演奏了很多被误称为“世界音乐”的音乐，但它们来自不同的国家，例如马达加斯加或俾格米音乐或阿尔及利亚说唱音乐或其他什么。
I love playing Paul McCartney for people.
我喜欢为人们扮演保罗·麦卡特尼。
I feel I know that area very well.
我觉得我非常了解那个地区。
We have an episode coming up with Ian Leslie, and he’d better be ready because I’m ready.
我们有一集由伊恩·莱斯利主演，他最好做好准备，因为我已经准备好了。
I don’t need to prep for him.
我不需要为他做准备。
He has this new book coming out on John Lennon and Paul McCartney.
他出版了一本关于约翰·列侬和保罗·麦卡特尼的新书。
I feel I’ve never been more ready for an episode.
我觉得我从来没有为一集做好准备。
I think good DJing, you should surprise people and mix in a lot of different things.
我认为优秀的 DJ 应该给人们带来惊喜，并融入很多不同的东西。
And Tyrone would feel the same way.
蒂龙也会有同样的感觉。
But what would his artist be?
但他的艺术家会是什么样的呢？
Maybe he’d just play atonal music for people, but Tyler would do that, too.
也许他只是为人们演奏无调性音乐，但泰勒也会这么做。
Tyler and Tyrone merge when it comes to music.
泰勒和蒂龙在音乐方面融为一体。
Tyler has a little more empathy for the group, I think.
我认为泰勒对这个团体有更多的同情心。
I’m not sure about that.
我对此不太确定。
Any update on Yonas, the person in Ethiopia you supported?
您支持的埃塞俄比亚人尤纳斯（Yonas）有什么最新消息吗？
He and his wife had another baby.
他和他的妻子又生了一个孩子。
The war is over in the immediate sense.
战争从直接意义上来说已经结束了。
Their food problems have been alleviated.
他们的粮食问题得到了缓解。
He does not have enough money to complete his house, which is a big problem for him.
他没有足够的钱来完成他的房子，这对他来说是一个大问题。
They’re back on their feet, but it’s very tough, and tourist demand for the business he wanted to create has not materialized because of the war.
他们已经重新站起来，但情况非常艰难，而且由于战争，游客对他想要创建的业务的需求尚未实现。
He’s performed very admirably, but Ethiopia has let him down, I would say.
他的表现非常令人钦佩，但我想说，埃塞俄比亚让他失望了。
I think you commented at the time, it was more difficult than it should have been to get him the money when you supported him.
我想你当时评论说，当你支持他的时候，给他钱比应该的更困难。
It required some jumping through hoops.
这需要一些跳跃。
Is that still the case?
现在还是这样吗？
I now have an electronic payments network set up.
我现在已经建立了一个电子支付网络。
The first time I used it, my bank canceled my account.
我第一次使用它时，我的银行取消了我的帐户。
I had to go in person because it does look sketchy to be sending just a single transfer to Ethiopia all of a sudden.
我必须亲自去，因为突然只向埃塞俄比亚发送一次转帐看起来确实很粗略。
I think that’s resolved, but I’m afraid the next time I send, they’ll cancel my account again.
我想这已经解决了，但我担心下次我发送时，他们会再次取消我的帐户。
I don’t know, we’ll see.
我不知道，我们拭目以待。
Payments in the United States is still screwed up.
美国的支付仍然一团糟。
Stripe has done amazing work.
Stripe 做了令人惊叹的工作。
I hope they keep on going — I’m pretty sure they will — but it still all needs fixing.
我希望他们继续前进————我很确定他们会————但这一切仍然需要修复。
Question from D.B.
D.B. 的问题
“Respectfully and in a spirit of good intention .
“怀着尊敬和善意的精神。
.
。
.”
”。
Uh-oh.
呃哦。
It’s not as bad as you think.
它并不像你想象的那么糟糕。
“Why is it that you seem to dislike measures to make practical cycling in cities safer and more comfortable?” You’ve had a number of posts where you say that the idea that people — I think, correct me if I’m wrong, but the way I would summarize you is, you think it’s without evidence, installing bike lanes and these things — that the ROI is not there to you.
“为什么你似乎不喜欢让城市实用自行车更安全、更舒适的措施？”你在很多帖子中都提到，人们 —— 如果我错了，请纠正我，但我总结你的方式是，你认为没有证据，安装自行车道和这些东西 —— 你不存在投资回报率。
Is that fair?
这公平吗？
Correct.
正确。
As far as I can tell from the numbers I’ve seen, use of DC bike lanes has been declining.
据我所看到的数据来看，华盛顿特区自行车道的使用量一直在下降。
I suspect it’s not the future.
我怀疑这不是未来。
It’s a relatively slow and late-19th-century mode of transport.
这是一种相对较慢的 19 世纪末交通方式。
If you look at downtown Washington, it’s much harder to drive around in.
如果你看看华盛顿市中心，你会发现开车进去要困难得多。
I get that’s partly by design, but there is a real economic cost to that, and the bike lanes are mostly empty.
我知道这部分是设计使然，但这确实会带来经济成本，而且自行车道大多是空的。
It does seem to work for much of Manhattan.
它似乎确实适用于曼哈顿的大部分地区。
I think one should be an empiricist.
我认为一个人应该是一位经验主义者。
I know Amsterdam and Copenhagen quite well; it works great there.
我很了解阿姆斯特丹和哥本哈根；那里效果很好。
Houston decided not to do it; that was almost certainly the correct decision.
休斯顿决定不这样做；这几乎肯定是正确的决定。
One should be an empiricist, and I think bike lanes are, by the people I come into contact with, very much overrated.
一个人应该是一个经验主义者，我认为，在我接触过的人看来，自行车道被高估了。
If you ask the simple question, “Where’s the cost-benefit analysis that adds up all the costs?” I never see it.
如果你问一个简单的问题：“将所有成本相加的成本效益分析在哪里？”我从来没有看到过。
No one has ever sent me one, ever.
从来没有人给我寄过一封。
I did a long post; there were a large number of comments.
我写了一篇很长的文章；有大量评论。
People would say things like, “Oh, you dummy, don’t you see Copenhagen is a great city?” Yes, it is.
人们会说，“哦，你这个傻瓜，难道你不知道哥本哈根是一座伟大的城市吗？”是的，确实如此。
It’s worked well there.
那里运作良好。
But at the margin, how many American cities should make big investments in this direction?
但在边际上，有多少美国城市应该在这个方向上进行大量投资？
I still want to see the cost-benefit analysis, and no one’s coming up with it.
我仍然想看看成本效益分析，但没有人提出来。
All right.
好吧。
If you send me one that is serious in taking all the costs into account, including the cost of the land, I will read it and indeed review it.
如果您给我发送一份认真考虑所有成本（包括土地成本）的内容，我会阅读并确实进行审查。
But some kind of partial, “Oh, here’s a few people who are better off because we put bike lanes in,” I’ll look at it, but no, I’m not going to review that.
但有些偏颇，“哦，因为我们设置了自行车道，有些人的生活变得更好了”，我会看看，但不，我不会对此进行评论。
That’s what people have been sending me.
这就是人们发给我的。
“You published your list of the best new books of the year,” and we’ll get to those, at least for 2014.
“你发布了年度最佳新书清单”，我们会列出这些内容，至少在 2014 年是这样。
“What about the best new ideas?” That’s from Bob Ewing.
“那么最好的新想法呢？”这是鲍勃·尤因的。
Do we have new ideas?
我们有新的想法吗？
Generative AI, you wouldn’t quite call it a new idea, but it has reached new peaks.
生成式人工智能（Generative AI），你不能称之为新想法，但它已经达到了新的顶峰。
And the very best models — obviously o1 pro for GPT is right now the best model, and it’s just astonishing.
最好的模型——显然，GPT 的 o1 pro 是目前最好的模型，这真是令人惊讶。
It beats humans at most things.
它在大多数事情上都击败了人类。
Today, or is it yesterday, the new Google video model came out.
今天，或者是昨天，新的谷歌视频模型问世了。
I haven’t played around with it yet.
我还没有玩过它。
People say it’s incredible.
人们说这太不可思议了。
Those are the new ideas that matter, and the rest is often people just spinning their wheels.
这些才是重要的新想法，剩下的往往只是人们白费力气。
It’s not a great time for new ideas in books.
现在不是在书中提出新想法的好时机。
The new ideas are all stuff — also in biomedicine — and it’s just been incredible, mind blowing.
新的想法都是新的东西 ——在生物医学领域也是如此——而且它令人难以置信，令人兴奋。
You’ve said before that the best ideas are the things people do.
您之前说过，最好的想法就是人们所做的事情。
They’re embedded in the projects people do, so LLMs would be one.
它们嵌入到人们所做的项目中，因此法学硕士就是其中之一。
That’s a recent development.
这是最近的进展。
Sure.
当然。
Say 10, 15 years ago, you had all these new semi-popular, semi-serious science, economics books.
比如说 10、15 年前，你拥有所有这些新的半流行、半严肃的科学、经济学书籍。
A lot of them had new ideas.
他们中的很多人有了新的想法。
You could say Jared Diamond started that trend.
你可以说贾里德戴蒙德开创了这一趋势。
It now seems to me mostly over.
现在在我看来，一切都已经结束了。
Those books seem a bit flat at the moment.
这些书目前看起来有点平淡。
We’re waiting for people to reinvent the book.
我们正在等待人们重新发明这本书。
We tried our own version of that.
我们尝试了我们自己的版本。
Thank you again for your help with GOAT, econgoat.ai, but those are the new ideas or doing things.
再次感谢您对 GOAT、econgoat.ai 的帮助，但这些都是新的想法或做法。
Well, maybe we’re stretching what’s an idea versus, say, an initiative, but in the policy world we have DOGE.
好吧，也许我们正在扩展想法与倡议的区别，但在政策领域，我们有 DOGE。
Would you count that as a new idea?
您认为这是一个新想法吗？
I’m all for it.
我完全赞成。
I hope it succeeds, but I don’t think it’s a new idea.
我希望它能成功，但我不认为这是一个新想法。
If you read David Stockman’s old book, The Triumph of Politics, they tried a version of that in the first term of the Reagan administration.
如果你读过大卫·斯托克曼的旧书《政治的胜利》，他们在里根政府第一任期就尝试过该书的一个版本。
It didn’t work.
它不起作用。
They’re trying it again.
他们正在再次尝试。
I think they’ll try harder, and with the benefit of knowledge of failures in the meantime.
我认为他们会更加努力，同时受益于失败的知识。
But no, I don’t see it as a new idea.
但不，我不认为这是一个新想法。
Well, we’re also going to have Jennifer Pahlka on to talk more about that in the new year, so look out for that one.
好吧，我们还将请詹妮弗·帕尔卡在新的一年里更多地谈论这一点，所以请留意这一点。
Settling Mars is not a new idea.
定居火星并不是一个新想法。
Let’s root for it, but it’ll be tough, and it’s not new.
让我们支持它，但这会很困难，而且也不是什么新鲜事。
All right.
好吧。
“What supplements do you take?
“你吃什么补品？
How do you feel about the life extension projects that are out and about?” That’s from Nicholas Kraus.
您对正在进行的延寿项目有何看法？”这是尼古拉斯·克劳斯写的。
I drink mineral water.
我喝矿泉水。
Does that count as a supplement?
这也算是补充吧？
Why not?
为什么不呢？
I don’t take a lot of medications.
我不服用很多药物。
I don’t take medications in general.
我一般不吃药。
I’m skeptical.
我很怀疑。
I think life expectancy will continue to increase slowly.
我认为预期寿命将继续缓慢增加。
My guess is there’s some natural limit due to the brain at somewhere between 100 and 120.
我的猜测是，由于大脑的原因，存在一些自然限制，介于 100 到 120 之间。
I don’t see how you repair the brain without replacing who is the person.
我不明白如何在不更换人的情况下修复大脑。
I don’t think individuals can live forever.
我不认为个人可以永远活着。
To get to the point where large numbers of people who buckle their seat belts live well into their 90s, I expect we’re on the way to doing that right now.
为了让大量系好安全带的人活到 90 多岁，我希望我们现在就正在这样做。
Your kids might be able to expect to live well into their 90s, for instance.
例如，您的孩子可能会活到 90 多岁。
How long would you like to live, in an ideal world, in your body?
你想在一个理想的世界里，在你的身体里活多久？
As long as I can.
只要我能。
As long as there is history to follow, I won’t be bored.
只要有历史可循，我就不会感到无聊。
I’m not worried about that.
我对此并不担心。
I’m the same way.
我也是这样。
Some people say, “No, I don’t want to live forever,” because then all of your people around you presumably will start dying, unless they’re just also buckling their seat belts and taking the same non-supplements you are.
有些人说，“不，我不想永远活下去”，因为那么你周围的所有人可能都会开始死亡，除非他们也系好安全带并服用与你相同的非补充剂。
COWEN: Bye-bye.
考恩：再见。
I already know a lot of people who’ve passed away.
我已经认识很多已经去世的人了。
It’s terrible, but I’ve kept on going.
这很糟糕，但我还是继续前进。
I don’t know.
我不知道。
I like life.
我喜欢生活。
I have a lot of new friends, also.
我也有很多新朋友。
As you get older, you need to make real efforts to make and keep new friends, but you can do it.
随着年龄的增长，您需要付出真正的努力来结交和维持新朋友，但您可以做到。
Rick Rubin or Noam Dworman, they’re pretty new friends for me.
里克·鲁宾（Rick Rubin）或诺姆·德沃曼（Noam Dwoman），他们对我来说是非常新的朋友。
To me, to be maybe a little glib, it’s sort of like not getting a new pet because your old pet died and just being a little fatalistic, like, “I’m not going to bring joy into my life because that joy might end.” I don’t know.
对我来说，也许有点油嘴滑舌，这有点像因为你的旧宠物死了而没有养新宠物，只是有点宿命论，比如，“我不会给我的生活带来快乐，因为这种快乐可能会结束。”我不知道。
If there’s anyone out there who can help me with this, I’d love to live longer than, say, 80 or 90.
如果有人可以帮助我解决这个问题，我很乐意活到 80 或 90 岁以上。
A lot of Emergent Ventures winners are working on this.
许多 Emergent Ventures 的获奖者都在致力于此。
My guess is they’ll simply help us live to 100, which is still a great investment.
我的猜测是它们只会帮助我们活到 100 岁，这仍然是一项很好的投资。
Many of them think aging is a specific thing that can be stopped or reversed or cured, like you can cure a disease.
他们中的许多人认为衰老是一种可以阻止、逆转或治愈的特定事物，就像可以治愈疾病一样。
I hope they’re right.
我希望他们是对的。
We’ve made bets on them.
我们已经在他们身上下了赌注。
But if you just ask me what I think, I do think there’s an upper limit that is more or less at where the oldest living people live to today, which is about 110 perhaps.
但如果你问我的想法，我确实认为最长寿的人活到今天或多或少有一个上限，大概是 110 岁左右。
Maybe we can get that up to 120.
也许我们可以把它提高到 120。
All right.
好吧。
Listener P.K.
听众 P.K.
asks, “How do you invest your own money?”
问：“你如何用自己的钱进行投资？”
Buy, hold, and diversify.
购买、持有并多元化。
I do very little.
我做的很少。
I don’t sell things, don’t really rebalance; as I save more, buy more stuff; and that’s it.
我不卖东西，也不真正重新平衡；当我存更多钱时，我会买更多东西；就是这样。
There’s nothing interesting about that story.
这个故事没什么有趣的。
I don’t think I can beat the market, and I don’t try to.
我认为我无法战胜市场，我也不会尝试这样做。
I am wondering if he — if they, I should say — are also asking this question because of your challenge to people to short the market if they’re bearish on things.
我想知道他是否——我应该说，如果他们也在问这个问题，因为你向人们发出挑战，如果他们看空市场，他们就做空市场。
Have you ever yourself taken out a financial position that bet on your belief in that way?
您是否曾经以这种方式拿过一个财务头寸来押注于您的信念？
I’ve never shorted anything.
我从来没有做空过任何东西。
Note that my wife works for the SEC, so I’m not allowed to short anything, legally.
请注意，我的妻子在 SEC 工作，所以我不被允许在法律上做空任何东西。
In fact, a lot of individual stocks I can’t buy.
事实上，很多个股我都买不到。
All I can do — it’s in fact what I want to do anyway, but is buy, hold, and diversify.
我能做的就是买入、持有和多元化投资。
But I have no degrees of freedom in this, so make of that what you will.
但我在这方面没有自由度，所以你可以随心所欲。
All right.
好吧。
Maybe —
也许 ——
I’m optimistic.
我很乐观。
I don’t want to short the market even if I could.
即使可以，我也不想做空市场。
On Tyler’s nonfiction picks from 2014
泰勒 2014 年非小说类精选
Let’s move on to pop culture picks.
让我们继续选择流行文化。
For many, many years on Marginal Revolution, you’ve been listing your favorite nonfiction, fiction, movies from the year.
多年来，你一直在《边际革命》上列出当年你最喜欢的非小说类、小说和电影。
It’s tradition on this show to look back a decade ago — in this case, 2014 — and look at your picks.
这个节目的传统是回顾十年前——在这里是 2014 年——然后看看你的选择。
I always forget to prep for this, and I ought to know by now.
我总是忘记为此做好准备，而我现在应该知道了。
I’m silly.
我很傻。
2014 also coincides — I joined Mercatus in October 2014, so the snake is eating the tail here, where up to now these picks have been before I joined Mercatus and before CWT got started.
2014 年也恰逢 —— 我于 2014 年 10 月加入 Mercatus，所以蛇在这里吃尾巴，到目前为止，这些选秀权一直在我加入 Mercatus 之前和 CWT 开始之前。
But next year when we do this, CWT will have begun.
但明年当我们这样做时，CWT 将开始。
Perhaps that will be reflected in the lists.
也许这会反映在名单中。
Now, starting with nonfiction, there are a lot.
现在，从非小说类开始，有很多。
There are way too many, I think, to go by one by one.
我想实在太多了，无法一一列举。
Let me just mention the ones where there is some connection with CWT.
我只提一下与 CWT 有联系的那些。
Interestingly, one of the books you mentioned was Stephen Kotkin’s Stalin: Volume I.
有趣的是，你提到的其中一本书是斯蒂芬·科特金的《斯大林：第一卷》。
That was 10 years —
那是10年 ——
One of the greatest biographies of all time.
有史以来最伟大的传记之一。
An incredible achievement.
令人难以置信的成就。
We got Adam Tooze, The Deluge: The Great War and the Remaking of the Global Order, 1916–1931.
我们找到了亚当·图兹（Adam Tooze），《洪水：伟大的战争与全球秩序的重建，1916-1931》。
You say it starts slow but after about 13 percent becomes fascinating, especially about the internal politics in Germany and Russia.
你说它一开始很慢，但大约 13% 之后就变得令人着迷，尤其是关于德国和俄罗斯的内部政治。
I must have read that on Kindle if I said 13 percent.
如果我说 13%，我一定是在 Kindle 上读到的。
There you go.
就这样吧。
We’ve got Tooze and Kotkin on there.
图兹和科特金也在场。
Tooze was on, I think, in 2020.
我想，图兹在 2020 年就已经上线了。
Other books that you mentioned — there are probably maybe 30 books listed here, but we have Piketty.
你提到的其他书——这里可能列出了 30 本书，但我们有皮凯蒂。
The Second Machine Age.
第二次机器时代。
Tim Harford had a book.
蒂姆·哈福德有一本书。
Megan McArdle’s The Up Side of Down.
梅根·麦卡德尔的《上下颠倒》。
Lane Kenworthy on social democracy.
莱恩·肯沃西论社会民主主义。
These are all people that are in your network, you say.
你说，这些都是你网络中的人。
The Fourth Revolution by John Micklethwait.
约翰·米克尔思韦特的《第四次革命》。
Daniel Drezner, The System Worked.
丹尼尔·德雷兹纳，《系统有效》。
Frank Buckley, why the Canadian system of government is better.
弗兰克·巴克利（Frank Buckley），为什么加拿大的政府制度更好。
Russ Roberts, How Adam Smith Can Change Your Life, so there’s another CWT connection.
Russ Roberts，《亚当·斯密如何改变你的生活》，所以还有另一个 CWT 连接。
I’m not sure the Frank Buckley book has held up well.
我不确定弗兰克·巴克利的书是否经得起考验。
Chrystia Freeland just resigned as we’re recording, and Trudeau is very unpopular, and Canada is still in a recession.
在我们录音时，克里斯蒂亚·弗里兰刚刚辞职，特鲁多非常不受欢迎，而加拿大仍处于经济衰退之中。
Now, is that due to their system of government?
那么，这是由于他们的政府制度吗？
You can debate.
你可以辩论。
I suspect Frank himself might revisit that claim.
我怀疑弗兰克本人可能会重新审视这一说法。
Other books, I’ll run through them.
其他的书，我会浏览一下。
You can interrupt me if something jumps out at you.
如果有什么事情突然发生，你可以打断我。
Jürgen Osterhammel, The Transformation of the World: A Global History of the Nineteenth Century.
于尔根·奥斯特哈梅尔，《世界的转变：十九世纪的全球史》。
I’d love to read more from him, but it seems to me that book probably took him 30 years, and I wonder when the next one is coming.
我很想读更多他的作品，但在我看来，那本书可能花了他 30 年的时间，我不知道下一本书什么时候出版。
You said it was “long, exhausting, and wonderful.” Christopher Hale, Massacre in Malaya.
你说那是“漫长、疲惫却又美妙”。克里斯托弗·黑尔，《马来亚大屠杀》。
Howard Eiland and Michael W.
霍华德·艾兰和迈克尔·W.
Jennings, Walter Benjamin: A Critical Life.
沃尔特·本杰明·詹宁斯：《批判的生活》。
The Very Rev’d.
非常牧师。
John Drury, Music at Midnight: The Life and Poetry of George Herbert.
约翰·德鲁里，《午夜音乐：乔治·赫伯特的生活和诗歌》。
That was a great book.
那是一本很棒的书。
That might have been the best book of that year.
那可能是那一年最好的书。
Everyone should read that.
每个人都应该读一下。
John Keay, Midnight’s Descendants: A History of South Asia since Partition.
约翰·基伊，《午夜的后裔：分裂以来南亚的历史》。
Alice Goffman, On the Run: Fugitive Life in an American City.
艾丽丝·戈夫曼，《逃亡：美国城市的逃亡生活》。
She got in trouble for that book.
她因为那本书惹上了麻烦。
People claimed she got too close to her subjects or was involved in whatever.
人们声称她与她的拍摄对象太接近或参与了任何事情。
I don’t want to repeat allegations, but it’s become quite controversial.
我不想重复指控，但这已经变得相当有争议。
Okay.
好的。
Many others, but I’ll end on this one that I missed, another CWT connection.
还有很多其他连接，但我会以我错过的这个作为结束，这是另一个 CWT 连接。
You mentioned Tom Holland’s translation of Herodotus’s Histories.
您提到汤姆·霍兰德翻译的希罗多德《历史》。
There we go.
我们开始吧。
He was a great guest and has an amazing podcast.
他是一位很棒的客人，并且有很棒的播客。
He does.
他做到了。
They are a force of nature, often the number one podcast in the UK and I think probably top whatever, maybe top 25, top 100 in the US.
他们是一股自然的力量，通常是英国排名第一的播客，我认为可能排名第一，可能是美国前 25 名、前 100 名。
They were a model for Alex for The Marginal Revolution Podcast, in fact.
事实上，他们是亚历克斯《边缘革命》播客的模特。
He listens to them a lot.
他经常听他们说话。
Yes, I love them too.
是的，我也爱他们。
I know he went to a live show, and they can sell out venues.
我知道他去看了一场现场表演，他们的场地可以卖完。
I also thought about, well, maybe we should just try to call your podcast The Rest Is Economics and just join their family, but we went with Marginal Revolution instead.
我还想，好吧，也许我们应该尝试将您的播客称为“剩下的就是经济学”，然后加入他们的大家庭，但我们选择了“边际革命”。
On Tyler’s fiction picks from 2014
泰勒 2014 年小说精选
There are many more.
还有更多。
You can check the post, listeners, if you want some other ones, but let’s move on to fiction.
听众们，如果您想要其他内容，您可以查看该帖子，但让我们继续看小说。
Michel Faber, The Book of Strange New Things.
米歇尔·法贝尔，《奇怪的新事物之书》。
My wife loved that book.
我的妻子很喜欢那本书。
She asked me about it like a day ago or two days ago.
她大约一天前或两天前问过我这件事。
Yes, great book.
是的，很棒的书。
I still think about it.
我还在想。
It’s held up.
它被搁置了。
I read that one on your recommendation and enjoyed it.
我根据你的推荐读了那一篇，并且很喜欢。
Emmanuel Carrère?
伊曼纽尔·卡雷尔？
I’m not sure if I’m saying that right.
我不确定我说得对不对。
Limonov: The Outrageous Adventures of the Radical Soviet Poet Who Became a Bum in New York, a Sensation in France, and a Political Antihero in Russia.
利莫诺夫：激进的苏联诗人的荒唐冒险，他在纽约成为流浪汉，在法国引起轰动，在俄罗斯成为政治反英雄。
He’s done very well.
他做得很好。
We should consider him as a guest.
我们应该把他当作客人。
About a week ago, I read his new book about the trials of the Islamic terrorists in France.
大约一周前，我读了他关于法国伊斯兰恐怖分子审判的新书。
That’s excellent.
那太好了。
He’s just racking up successes.
他只是在取得成功。
Andrés Neuman, Talking to Ourselves.
安德烈斯·诺伊曼，《自言自语》。
Not ringing a bell with me.
不跟我一起按门铃。
Must not have stuck.
一定没有卡住。
Javier Cercas, Outlaws: A Novel.
哈维尔·塞尔卡斯，《亡命之徒：小说》。
Oh, sure.
哦，当然。
Cercas, he’s a great Spanish writer, very good.
Cercas，他是一位伟大的西班牙作家，非常优秀。
Again, he has a number of important books, not that well known in the English-speaking world.
同样，他有许多重要的书籍，但在英语世界中并不广为人知。
Quality.
质量。
Richard Flanagan, The Narrow Road to the Deep North.
理查德·弗拉纳根，《通往北方深处的窄路》。
He had a book this year that Henry Oliver just reviewed.
他今年有一本书，亨利·奥利弗刚刚评论过。
Again, he’s done very well.
再说一次，他做得很好。
Someone also we should consider having as a guest.
我们还应该考虑邀请某人作为客人。
Hassan Blasim, The Corpse Exhibition: And Other Stories of Iraq.
哈桑·布拉西姆（Hassan Blasim），《尸体展览：以及伊拉克的其他故事》。
Yes.
是的。
Hasn’t stuck with me, but let’s do Richard Flanagan.
没有坚持我，但让我们做理查德·弗拉纳根。
Okay, Richard Flanagan.
好的，理查德·弗拉纳根。
Yes.
是的。
Andy Weir, The Martian.
安迪·威尔，《火星救援》。
Incredible guest.
令人难以置信的客人。
Great book, and he’s still on a roll, and I’m dying for the next one.
很棒的书，而且他还在热播中，我非常渴望下一本书。
I am very excited.
我很兴奋。
I read Project Hail Mary a year or two ago.
我一两年前读过《万福玛丽计划》。
I thought that book was excellent.
我认为那本书很棒。
I agree.
我同意。
It’s like The Martian, but —
这就像《火星救援》，但是 ——
It’s better, even.
甚至更好。
— better because there’s more of a plot than just a thought exercise, which is what people loved about The Martian, is just this extended thought exercise.
——更好，因为它有更多的情节，而不仅仅是思考练习，这正是人们喜欢《火星救援》的原因，就是这种扩展的思考练习。
It’s got that in Project Hail Mary, but also a really exciting narrative.
《万福玛丽计划》中就有这样的内容，而且还有一个非常令人兴奋的故事。
They’re making a movie.
他们正在拍电影。
I think Lord and Miller are attached to it.
我认为洛德和米勒对此很感兴趣。
Lord and Miller are known for their comedy, and I’m very excited to see how that one turns out.
洛德和米勒以喜剧而闻名，我很高兴看到这部喜剧的结局。
I feel I’m picking good authors, actually, people who have held up and done even better.
事实上，我觉得我正在挑选优秀的作者，他们坚持不懈，做得更好。
Last one: Geoffrey Hill, Broken Hierarchies: Poems 1952–2012.
最后一篇：杰弗里·希尔，《打破的等级制度：1952-2012 年的诗歌》。
He passed away, I think, a few years ago.
我想他几年前就去世了。
He’s a brilliant conceptual poet.
他是一位出色的观念诗人。
I’m not sure one goes back to him, but I’m not sure one needs to.
我不确定有人会回到他身边，但我不确定有人需要这样做。
Strong thinker and writer.
坚强的思想家和作家。
All right.
好的。
Those are your fiction picks.
这些是你的小说选择。
On Tyler’s movie picks from 2014
泰勒 2014 年精选电影
Let’s move on to best movies.
让我们继续看最佳电影。
You say, kicking it off, “I found this to be a diffuse year in movies, one where old-style mainline releases lost their grip .
你一开始就说：“我发现今年是电影业混乱的一年，老式主线电影失去了控制力。
.
。
.
。
and opened up the market for more quality and diversity.
并开辟了更高质量和多样性的市场。
.
。
.
。
.
。
My cinematic self came away from the year quite happy, yet without a clear favorite or a definite sense of which movies will last the ages.” Let’s see how well they’ve aged over 10 years.
我的电影自我在这一年结束时非常高兴，但没有明确的最爱，也没有明确的感觉哪些电影会经久不衰。”让我们看看他们10多年来的衰老情况如何。
The Invisible Woman, which is about the secret love life of Charles Dickens.
《看不见的女人》讲述了查尔斯·狄更斯的秘密爱情生活。
Do you remember that one?
你还记得那个吗？
Excellent movie.
很棒的电影。
I was thinking I should watch it again.
我想我应该再看一遍。
Particle Fever.
粒子热。
Particle Fever, was that the documentary or —
粒子热，是纪录片还是——
It’s a science documentary about the Hadron Collider.
这是一部关于强子对撞机的科学纪录片。
Yes, gripping to watch, probably out of date, but good background.
是的，观看起来很扣人心弦，可能已经过时了，但背景很好。
I’d still recommend it.
我还是会推荐它。
Le Week-End.
周末。
A “brutal tale of a vacation and a marriage collapsing.”
一个“关于假期和婚姻破裂的残酷故事”。
You’ve got to be strong to watch that one, but for some people, yes, go ahead.
你必须坚强才能观看那一部电影，但对于某些人来说，是的，继续吧。
Under the Skin, the Scarlett Johansson movie.
皮囊之下，斯嘉丽约翰逊的电影。
Incredible.
极好的。
It’s held up very well.
它保持得很好。
It’s become a famous movie and book.
它已成为一部著名的电影和书籍。
The Lunchbox.
午餐盒。
That’s the Indian one?
那是印度的吗？
Yes.
是的。
About logistics in India.
关于印度的物流。
Way ahead of its time, and showing you what India is good at accomplishing.
远远领先于时代，并向您展示印度擅长实现什么。
Highly instructive movie and a lot of fun.
非常有教育意义的电影，而且很有趣。
Viola, “an Argentinean take on Shakespeare’s Twelfth Night.” Do you remember that one?
维奥拉，“阿根廷版莎士比亚的《第十二夜》。”你还记得那个吗？
Yes.
是的。
There are more good Shakespeare movies than people think, but the good ones are all really weird.
好的莎士比亚电影比人们想象的要多，但好的电影都非常奇怪。
Like Chimes at Midnight or the one with Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Danes where they do Romeo and Juliet with Haitian Vodou.
就像午夜的钟声，或者莱昂纳多·迪卡普里奥和克莱尔·丹尼斯的那部，他们与海地伏杜一起演绎罗密欧与朱丽叶。
Yes, that’s another one.
是的，那是另一件事。
A Touch of Sin.
罪恶之触。
This was a Chinese movie.
这是一部中国电影。
It’s become an all-time classic, maybe the greatest Chinese movie ever made.
它已成为历史经典，也许是有史以来最伟大的中国电影。
I can’t pronounce his name, but it’s what?
我无法说出他的名字，但这是什么？
Z-H-A-N-G-K-E.
Z-H-A-N-G-K-E。
It’s an absolute must-watch on the big screen if you can.
如果可以的话，这绝对是大屏幕上的必看之作。
Godzilla.
哥斯拉。
This was the one with — Bryan Cranston was the lead.
这是一部由布莱恩·克兰斯顿主演的电影。
There’s been so many Godzilla movies, but this one was just called Godzilla.
哥斯拉电影已经有很多部了，但这一部就叫哥斯拉。
I try to see them all.
我试着去看看他们所有人。
I never regret it.
我从不后悔。
I can’t quite defend them, but that itself tells you something about aesthetics.
我无法完全为它们辩护，但这本身就告诉了你一些关于美学的事情。
Yes.
是的。
This was the one directed by Gareth Edwards.
这是加雷斯·爱德华兹执导的一部。
I don’t know which one I meant, but again, I’ve never regretted seeing a single Godzilla movie in my entire life.
我不知道我说的是哪一部，但我这辈子从来没有后悔看过一部哥斯拉电影。
Transformers 4.
变形金刚4.
That’s the great one.
那是伟大的。
Again, it has become iconic.
它再次成为标志性的。
It’s just action every moment, visually complex, highly inventive, and is underrated by serious film critics.
它每时每刻都在发生动作，视觉效果复杂，极具创造力，并且被严肃的电影评论家低估了。
I don’t like the other Transformers movies.
我不喜欢其他变形金刚电影。
They’re just silly, but not 4, right?
他们只是很傻，但不是4，对吧？
You’re making me want to watch Transformers 4.
你让我想看变形金刚4。
I never — I dropped out on the Transformers series.
我从来没有 — 我退出了变形金刚系列。
You were rational, but yet, the world will surprise us sometimes.
你是理性的，但是，世界有时会给我们带来惊喜。
Obvious Child.
明显的孩子。
Oh, give me some more context.
哦，给我更多背景信息。
Let me find —
让我找到 —
There’s the Paul Simon song “Obvious Child.” That comes to mind too quickly, and it blocks the movie from my mind.
有保罗·西蒙的歌曲《Obvious Child》。这件事突然浮现在我的脑海里，它把这部电影从我的脑海中抹去了。
It’s a great song.
这是一首很棒的歌曲。
It’s a romantic comedy written and directed by Gillian Robespierre.
这是一部由吉莉安·罗伯斯庇尔编剧和导演的浪漫喜剧。
Stars Jenny Slate, Gaby Hoffman, David Cross.
主演包括珍妮·斯蕾特、盖比·霍夫曼、大卫·克罗斯。
Not sure.
没有把握。
Ilo Ilo.
伊洛伊洛。
“A movie from Singapore about a Filipina immigrant.”
“一部来自新加坡的关于菲律宾移民的电影。”
Excellent film, and a good look at the other side of Singaporean life that people don’t always see.
很棒的电影，很好地展现了新加坡人生活中人们并不总是看到的另一面。
The One I Love.
我爱的人。
This is a movie starring Mark Duplass and Elisabeth Moss.
这是一部由马克·杜普拉斯和伊丽莎白·莫斯主演的电影。
It’s an indie movie where they go to — it’s a hard movie to summarize, but as I recall, they’re in a vacation home together and realize that they’re interacting with clones of their partner.
这是一部他们去看的独立电影——这是一部很难概括的电影，但据我记得，他们一起在度假屋里，并意识到他们正在与伴侣的克隆人互动。
She’s very good in that.
她在这方面非常擅长。
It’s an interesting film.
这是一部有趣的电影。
I’m probably botching that summary a little bit, but it’s very good.
我可能有点搞砸了这个总结，但它非常好。
I also checked that one out.
我也查了一下那个。
Skeleton Twins.
骷髅双胞胎。
Skeleton Twins.
骷髅双胞胎。
Give me some context?
给我一些背景吗？
Context is that which is scarce.
上下文是稀缺的。
Let me be your human LLM.
让我成为您的人类法学硕士。
Another American comedy.
又一部美国喜剧。
I don’t know this one by name either, but this starred Bill Hader and Kristen Wiig.
我也不知道这个名字，但这部由比尔·哈德尔和克里斯汀·韦格主演。
Twins Milo and Maggie have an unexpected reunion after a set of near tragedies.
双胞胎米洛和玛吉在经历了一系列近乎悲剧之后意外重聚。
Comedies, I tend to forget, but I don’t mean that as a criticism of comedies.
喜剧，我往往会忘记，但我并不是说这是对喜剧的批评。
And you can’t really rewatch them.
而且你无法真正重新观看它们。
You just watch them once and then forget about it.
你只看一次，然后就忘记了。
That’s optimal.
这是最佳的。
Lucy, your second Scarlett Johansson movie.
露西，你的第二部斯嘉丽·约翰逊电影。
Yes.
是的。
She is amazing.
她太棒了。
Fury, that’s the World War II tank movie with Brad Pitt.
《狂怒》，这是布拉德·皮特主演的二战坦克电影。
I like World War II movies.
我喜欢二战电影。
That’s one of the good ones.
这是其中一件好事。
Yes.
是的。
I watched —
我看了 ——
Blitz was the one this year.
闪电战是今年的一个。
I watched Fury in the past year.
去年我看了《怒火》。
Enjoyed it.
很享受。
Again, for all my military dads out there, if you haven’t checked out Fury, that is a great World War II movie.
再说一次，对于我所有的军人爸爸来说，如果你还没有看过《愤怒》，那是一部很棒的二战电影。
Interstellar.
星际穿越。
There’s been some commentary because of the 10-year —
由于 10 年 ，出现了一些评论——
I don’t like that anymore.
我不再喜欢那样了。
I think it’s a bit unwatchable.
我觉得有点看不下去了。
I know it’s the iconic movie for men.
我知道这是一部男性标志性电影。
It’s all over Twitter.
推特上到处都是。
Tech people love it.
科技人士喜欢它。
I don’t think Christopher Nolan’s a good movie maker.
我不认为克里斯托弗·诺兰是一个优秀的电影制作人。
I know that’s heresy, but it’s all too excess, and it’s not really tinged with actual drama for the most part, only in some scenes.
我知道这是异端邪说，但这太过分了，而且大部分内容都没有真正的戏剧色彩，只是在某些场景中。
So I’m going to nix that one.
所以我要取消那个。
Are you throwing out the baby with the bathwater?
你是不是把孩子和洗澡水一起倒掉了？
Yes, I’m going to throw it all out.
是的，我要把一切都扔掉。
The baby, the bathwater, the tub, let’s just throw it all out.
婴儿、洗澡水、浴缸，我们把它们统统扔掉吧。
Isn’t this just like Oppenheimer?
这不就像奥本海默一样吗？
You’ve got just a bad taste in your mouth with Oppenheimer, and surely it’s not all bad with Nolan.
你对奥本海默的印象很糟糕，但对诺兰来说当然也不全是坏事。
Marc Andreessen promises me that Tenet makes sense.
马克·安德森向我保证《信条》是有道理的。
He’s probably correct.
他可能是对的。
It might be a great movie.
这可能是一部很棒的电影。
I might try it again, but I don’t know.
我可能会再试一次，但我不知道。
I think there’s some way in which there’s just too much on the screen, and it’s not properly cinematic somehow.
我认为在某种程度上，银幕上的内容太多了，而且不知怎的，它并不适合电影化。
I have a soft spot for Interstellar.
我对《星际穿越》情有独钟。
I totally get the criticisms of Interstellar, particularly that it kind of all collapses into love being a force of nature like gravity is, which I know for sci-fi fans is just not what you want.
我完全理解《星际穿越》的批评，尤其是它把爱情变成了像重力一样的自然力量，我知道对于科幻迷来说这不是你想要的。
COWEN: It’s just too parasitic on its own special effects.
COWEN：它太依赖于自己的特效了。
Just on a production level, I appreciate Nolan’s — I think you’re underrating the craftsmanship of those films.
仅就制作水平而言，我很欣赏诺兰的 —— 我认为你低估了这些电影的工艺。
Even from just a production design approach, I think they’re very good.
即使仅从生产设计方法来看，我也认为它们非常好。
I agree with that, but it matters less to me.
我同意这一点，但这对我来说不太重要。
And I guess he’ll never be a guest on this show now.
我想他现在永远不会成为这个节目的嘉宾了。
HOLMES: You say — you picked Fury number one, summing up, along with Touch of Sin.
福尔摩斯：你说——总结起来，你选择了《狂怒》和《罪恶之触》一起排名第一。
You say both of them need to be seen on a large screen.
你说他们两个都需要在大屏幕上看到。
Touch of Sin is really the one that has become a big deal.
《罪恶之触》确实已经成为一件大事。
You include a TV pick.
您包括电视精选。
You say the Modern Orthodox Jewish dating show Srugim?
你说的是现代正统犹太约会节目 Srugim？
I’m not —
我不是 ——
Yes, Srugim, which is incredible.
是的，斯鲁吉姆，这太不可思议了。
It’s now massively popular.
它现在非常流行。
I feel very good about that pick, and highly recommended.
我对这个选择感觉非常好，强烈推荐。
The problem with a lot of romance today is, where does the drama come from?
今天很多浪漫的问题是，戏剧从何而来？
They could just sleep with each other too quickly, or if someone needs to divorce, it just happens.
他们可能很快就睡在一起了，或者如果有人需要离婚，这就会发生。
Victorian literature had solutions to these problems, and Srugim, which covers Modern Orthodox in contemporary Israel, has solutions as well.
维多利亚时代的文学对这些问题有解决方案，而涵盖当代以色列现代东正教的《Srugim》也有解决方案。
It’s a great, great TV show, I’d say one of the best ever made.
这是一部非常棒的电视剧，我想说这是有史以来最好的电视剧之一。
If you like it, you’ll like it right away.
如果你喜欢它，你马上就会喜欢它。
It’s not one of these “You need to sit through three episodes and then make up your mind” kind of things.
这不是“你需要看完三集然后做出决定”之类的事情。
Looking back over nonfiction, fiction — I’m not sure if you picked music; I didn’t see it, but apologies if I missed the music picks.
回顾非小说、小说 —— 我不确定你是否选择了音乐；我没有看到，但如果我错过了音乐精选，我很抱歉。
But if you go to MR, you can look at the data archives and find out for yourself.
但如果你去MR，你可以查看数据档案并亲自找出答案。
Looking back over these lists, how do you think they’ve aged?
回顾这些清单，您认为它们的老化情况如何？
I’m biased, but I think extremely well, and I think that was a great year for many things.
我有偏见，但我认为非常好，而且我认为那是很多事情都很棒的一年。
It wasn’t a great year for the resumption of high-speed economic growth, or maybe not technological progress.
对于经济恢复高速增长来说，这并不是一个伟大的一年，或者说对于技术进步来说，这也不是一个伟大的一年。
But it was a calm, stagnation-rich year where people were remarkably creative.
但这是平静、停滞的一年，人们却非常有创造力。
Very good.
非常好。
In aesthetics.
在美学上。
On what to call you all
关于如何称呼你们所有人
All right.
好吧。
Let us move on to something new for us this year.
今年让我们继续一些新的事情。
You have another document in front of you, actually several documents.
您面前还有另一份文档，实际上是几份文档。
We have asked listeners to send us ideas for a name that we can use to describe the collective fan base.
我们已要求听众向我们发送有关可以用来描述集体粉丝群的名称的想法。
And basically, there’s a functional reason for this of, when we address emails to folks, instead of “Dear listener,” we want to have a name for everyone.
基本上，这是有一个功能性原因的，当我们向人们发送电子邮件时，我们希望为每个人都有一个名字，而不是“亲爱的听众”。
“Dear blank.” Taylor Swift fans are called Swifties.
“亲爱的空白。”泰勒·斯威夫特的粉丝被称为“Swifties”。
We’re interested in developing our own version of that.
我们有兴趣开发我们自己的版本。
We got a bunch of suggestions.
我们收到了很多建议。
I would ask you to browse this list.
我会请你浏览这个列表。
We’re going to narrow it down to a short list and then ask folks to vote on it.
我们将把它缩小到一个简短的列表，然后请人们对其进行投票。
I’ll start reading off some of these, and you can tell me if any jump out to you.
我将开始阅读其中的一些内容，如果您突然想到任何内容，请告诉我。
We have The Underrated or Underrateds.
我们有被低估的人或被低估的人。
How about The Overrated?
《被高估的》怎么样？
HOLMES: There is every variation, so there’s The Correctly Rated.
福尔摩斯：有各种各样的变化，所以就有了“正确评级”。
But if winner’s curse holds, we’re pursuing them as an audience, and that’s winner’s curse for us.
但如果胜利者的诅咒成立，我们就会以观众的身份追随他们，这对我们来说就是胜利者的诅咒。
We’ve bid too much for their loyalty, so we must be overrating them, would be the simple economic argument.
我们对他们的忠诚度出价过高，所以我们一定高估了他们，这就是简单的经济论据。
So it has to be The Overrateds.
所以它必须是被高估的。
Tylerites, straight out —
Tylerites，直接出 —
None of these should have my name in it.
这些都不应该有我的名字。
I agree.
我同意。
Actually, I love some of them, but I think it’s against the spirit of the show that it use your name.
事实上，我喜欢其中的一些，但我认为它使用你的名字违背了节目的精神。
It’s about the guests more than anything else.
最重要的是客人。
I would say — but just to name some of the ones that do include your names, I love Cowenauts; that just rolls off the tongue.
我会说 —— 但仅举出一些确实包含你的名字的人，我喜欢 Cowenauts；那只是从舌头上滚下来。
Infovores, maybe, is good because if anything binds our listeners, it might be that.
信息爱好者或许是件好事，因为如果有什么东西能束缚我们的听众的话，那就是它了。
I like Infovores.
我喜欢信息爱好者。
There’s CWT-ers.
有 CWT 人。
No one else will know what that means, right?
没有人会知道这意味着什么，对吧？
Yes.
是的。
The Tycoons — again, if we used your name.
大亨 ——再次，如果我们使用你的名字。
The Marginal Revolutionaries — well, I think we have to save that for the other podcast.
边缘革命者 ——好吧，我认为我们必须把它留给其他播客。
Let’s see if there’s any other ones I really liked.
让我们看看是否还有其他我真正喜欢的。
I’ll say Infovores, if it’s up to me.
如果由我决定的话，我会说 Infovores。
Maybe it’s up to them.
也许这取决于他们。
HOLMES: It’ll be up to them.
福尔摩斯：这取决于他们。
Some of these I don’t understand, but I appreciate people’s effort.
其中一些我不明白，但我很欣赏人们的努力。
The Stubbornly Attached.
固执执着者。
How do you feel about The Stubbornly Attached?
你对《固执的执着》有什么看法？
If only!
如果可以的话！
If you tell me a lot stop listening at two-thirds of the way through, maybe The Stubbornly Not Fully Attached.
如果你告诉我很多，听到三分之二就停止听，也许是《顽固不完全依恋》。
Unfortunately, also a little difficult to use as a salutation in an email.
不幸的是，在电子邮件中用作称呼语也有点困难。
“Dear The Stubbornly Attached,” it doesn’t quite do what we need it to.
“亲爱的固执的依恋者”，它并没有完全满足我们的需要。
But I appreciate that one, whoever sent that one in.
但我很欣赏那个人，无论是谁送来的。
I like it, though.
不过我喜欢它。
I like the spirit, and that it’s not about me.
我喜欢这种精神，而且这与我无关。
I think The Conversationalists —
我认为对话主义者 ——
It’s a little too general.
这有点太笼统了。
It would apply to too many things.
它适用于太多事情。
I think of the Coppola movie, Gene Hackman.
我想起了科波拉的电影《吉恩·哈克曼》。
I don’t know.
我不知道。
It’s also Straussian for us because —
对我们来说这也是施特劳斯式的，因为 -
We don’t actually have conversations.
我们实际上没有对话。
— famously, this is probably the closest we get to a conversation on CWT.
— 众所周知，这可能是我们在 CWT 上最接近的一次对话。
All right, the list is going to be quite narrowed down since — and I totally agree with this — we should not have variants of your name in there.
好吧，名单将会缩小，因为 —— 我完全同意这一点 —— 我们不应该在里面有你名字的变体。
If you haven’t sent in a suggestion already, send it in.
如果您还没有发送建议，请发送。
We’ll narrow it down to a short list, and then we’ll ask people to vote.
我们会将其缩小到一个简短的名单，然后我们会要求人们投票。
I think there are some good ones in here.
我认为这里有一些不错的。
All right, last bit of business we need to do before we take our leave for the year is, we are currently running our end-of-year campaign, and people can give financially to support the show.
好吧，在我们休假之前我们需要做的最后一件事情是，我们目前正在进行年终活动，人们可以提供经济支持来支持这个节目。
One of the incentives we offered was a shout-out.
我们提供的激励措施之一是大声疾呼。
If you gave more than $250 or more to the show, I’m going to give you your shout-out, and we thank you very much.
如果您为演出捐款超过 250 美元或更多，我会向您致以谢意，我们非常感谢您。
Here’s all the folks who donated to the CWT end-of-year campaign this year and qualified for this incentive: Eric Ward, Chris Musillo, Dave Padula, Karl Muth, Drew Natenshon, Alan Goldhammer, Philip K., Dave Rappa, Christian Fiedler, Joe Kraus, Ethan Horsfall, David Kemp, Adam Shapiro, Chris Lehman, Jake Chinitz, Ben Stein, Roman Yitzhaki, Anish Peter, Samuel Cohn, Ethan Monreal-Jackson, Howard Yeh, Chad Wonderling, Elie Yoo.
以下是今年向 CWT 年终活动捐款并有资格获得此奖励的人员：Eric Ward、Chris Musillo、Dave Padula、Karl Muth、Drew Natenshon、Alan Goldhammer、Philip K.、Dave Rappa、Christian Fiedler、Joe Kraus、Ethan Horsfall、David Kemp、Adam Shapiro、Chris Lehman、Jake Chinitz、Ben Stein、Roman Yitzhaki、Anish彼得、塞缪尔·科恩、伊森·蒙雷亚尔-杰克逊、霍华德·叶、查德·万德林、埃利·尤。
Thank you all very, very much for your donations.
非常非常感谢大家的捐款。
Thank you all as well, truly.
也谢谢大家，真的。
People have been very generous this year with their donations.
今年人们的捐款非常慷慨。
We really appreciate it.
我们真的很感激。
People who suggest questions, they’re very valuable.
提出问题的人非常有价值。
Thank you to all of them as well.
也感谢他们所有人。
Yes, and you can email in at any time, reach out to us, reach out to Tyler with guest ideas and your questions.
是的，您可以随时发送电子邮件、联系我们、联系泰勒，提出客人的想法和问题。
We’re happy to receive them.
我们很高兴收到他们。
Lastly, let me thank some folks from the show.
最后，让我感谢节目中的一些人。
Thanks to you, Jeff, for being producer and overseer of all of this among your other responsibilities.
杰夫，感谢你担任所有这一切的制作人和监督者以及你的其他职责。
It’s my favorite thing to do.
这是我最喜欢做的事情。
This episode is always my favorite thing to do this year, so it’s always a treat, and it’s great.
这一集一直是我今年最喜欢做的事情，所以它总是一种享受，而且很棒。
It’s very gratifying: People now tell me that this is one of their favorite episodes of the year because it gives them a recommendation for episodes they may have missed, among other things.
这是非常令人高兴的：人们现在告诉我这是他们今年最喜欢的剧集之一，因为它为他们提供了他们可能错过的剧集的推荐等。
I love doing this.
我喜欢这样做。
I love being here.
我喜欢呆在这里。
I’m glad I made it.
我很高兴我做到了。
There is a sickness everywhere all around us.
我们周围到处都有一种疾病。
We’re in the studio by ourselves because folks are dropping like flies, but —
我们独自在工作室里，因为人们像苍蝇一样掉下来，但是 -
They’re not dropping; they’re just sidelined.
它们并没有下降；而是在下降。他们只是被边缘化了。
They’re recumbent on a sofa, hopefully recovering.
他们躺在沙发上，希望能康复。
Thanks to your health regimen and mine, evidently, we’ve made it here today.
显然，多亏了你们和我的健康养生，我们今天才走到了这里。
I was in India, so I’m very healthy.
我在印度，所以我很健康。
Dallas and Sam are great.
达拉斯和山姆都很棒。
I’m going to thank them in advance.
我要提前感谢他们。
They’re great to work with.
与他们合作非常愉快。
They put up with me.
他们忍受了我。
Dallas and Sam do most of the work on the show besides Tyler.
除了泰勒之外，达拉斯和山姆承担了节目中的大部分工作。
I just get to slide in and do fun things like this.
我只是滑进去做这样有趣的事情。
In addition to Dallas and Sam, who produce the show, there’s Jen Whisler, Karen Plante, Christina Behe, Haley Larsen, Mary Horan, Ashley Schiller, Sirena Dib, and of course there’s many others at Mercatus who contributed as well this year.
除了制作该节目的达拉斯和萨姆之外，还有 Jen Whisler、Karen Plante、Christina Behe、Haley Larsen、Mary Horan、Ashley Schiller、Sirena Dib，当然还有 Mercatus 的许多其他人今年也做出了贡献。
Thank you all very much.
非常感谢大家。
When I say “Let’s do more,” all of you are always game, and that’s phenomenal.
当我说“让我们做得更多”时，你们所有人都始终积极参与，这真是太棒了。
It’s not that easy to work with people who are like that and who really mean it.
与这样的人、真心实意的人一起工作并不容易。
Let’s do more.
让我们做更多。
Jeff, let’s do more.
杰夫，让我们做得更多。
All right, let’s do more.
好吧，让我们做更多。
Let’s do more in 2025.
2025 年，让我们做得更多。
If I don’t see you listeners before then, I’ll see you at the end of 2025, and we’ll see how we did.
如果在那之前我没有见到你们听众，我会在 2025 年底见到你们，我们会看看我们做得如何。
Thank you, Tyler.
谢谢你，泰勒。
Looking forward to the next year.
期待明年。
Thank you, Jeff.
谢谢你，杰夫。