Ami Vitale on Photojournalism and Wildlife Conservation (Ep. 203)

Special thanks to listener Margit Wennmachers for sponsoring this transcript.

特别感谢听众 Margit Wennmachers 赞助这份文字记录。

She’s author of the 2018 best-selling book Panda Love, and she is founder and director of a new nonprofit for arts education around the world, called Vital Impacts.

她是 2018 年畅销书《熊猫之恋》的作者，也是全球艺术教育新非营利组织 Vital Impacts 的创始人兼董事。

You can see her work on her homepage.

你可以在她的主页上看到她的作品。

If you Google her, that’s Ami, A-M-I, Ami Vitale, and also on Instagram.

如果你用 Google 搜索她，就会发现 Ami、A-M-I、Ami Vitale，还有 Instagram。

Ami, welcome.

阿米，欢迎。

The lucky pandas that were chosen to be a part of this program — they didn’t want them interacting with humans.

被选为该计划一部分的幸运熊猫 ——他们不希望它们与人类互动。

The main point about it is that these costumes — pandas go by smell, not sight, so the panda costumes were actually scented with panda urine because the thought was that they should not know that humans were around them.

主要的一点是，这些服装——熊猫是靠嗅觉而不是视觉来判断的，所以熊猫服装实际上是用熊猫尿液来闻的，因为人们认为它们不应该知道人类在它们周围。

Then there was another piece, which was, they understood that the pandas were endangered in the wild, and so they did a few things.

然后还有一个，就是他们知道大熊猫在野外是濒临灭绝的，所以他们做了一些事情。

They had a breeding program because they wanted to have 300 pandas in captivity in case they went extinct in the wild.

他们制定了一个繁育计划，因为他们希望圈养 300 只大熊猫，以防它们在野外灭绝。

Actually, they managed to crack the code, learn how to breed them in captivity, and now are releasing them back into the wild.

事实上，他们成功破解了密码，学会了如何圈养它们，现在又将它们放回野外。

The last important piece of it is, China is one of the few countries in the world where forest coverage is actually growing.

最后一个重要因素是，中国是世界上少数几个森林覆盖率实际上在增长的国家之一。

They are reforesting areas, connecting existing corridors where pandas live so that they can move when there are droughts and there are bamboo die-offs, basically giving them space to survive.

它们是重新造林区，连接大熊猫居住的现有走廊，以便它们在干旱和竹子枯死时可以移动，基本上为它们提供了生存空间。

That is probably the most essential thing we can do around the world for all of wildlife.

这可能是我们可以在世界各地为所有野生动物做的最重要的事情。

But then in captivity, they were trying to breed them for about two decades with no success.

但在人工饲养下，他们尝试了大约二十年的时间来繁殖它们，但没有成功。

They didn’t realize these two factors: one, that they have this tiny window, and two, that the females need choice to breed, so you just can’t put any old male panda together with them.

他们没有意识到这两个因素：一是它们的窗口很小，二是雌性需要选择来繁殖，所以你不能把任何年老的雄性熊猫和它们放在一起。

Once they realized these two things, they have a very successful breeding program.

一旦他们意识到这两件事，他们就有了一个非常成功的育种计划。

Now scientists are rethinking this idea about the species without a sex drive.

现在，科学家们正在重新思考关于没有性欲的物种的想法。

They do.

他们确实这么做了。

Let’s switch this now to the case of the northern white rhinos.

现在让我们把话题转向北方白犀牛的例子。

They would actually be extinct right now if it were not for — I believe it was in the ’60s.

如果不是因为 ——我相信那是在 60 年代，它们现在实际上已经灭绝了。

I’m not sure on that, but the Dvůr Králové Zoo brought northern white rhinos from the wild into the zoo, and if it were not for them, they would now be extinct.

我对此不太确定，但杜瓦尔·克拉洛韦动物园将野生的北方白犀牛引入动物园，如果没有它们，它们现在就会灭绝。

I have really mixed feelings about all of this.

我对这一切的感受真的很复杂。

Until we get to a better place as human beings, I see a value.

在我们成为人类的更好的地方之前，我看到了一种价值。

But not all zoos are the same, not all captive animals are the same, and I think we also need to change our understanding.

但并不是所有的动物园都是一样的，不是所有的圈养动物都是一样的，我认为我们也需要改变我们的认识。

Jane Goodall and many other people have figured out that these creatures are sentient; they’re intelligent life.

珍·古道尔和许多其他人已经发现这些生物是有感情的。他们是智慧生命。

I was just speaking to a woman who did research on dolphins, and she said something very interesting.

我刚刚和一位研究海豚的女士交谈，她说了一些非常有趣的话。

Dolphins have been around for many, many millions of years, and she believes that they have evolved not just to have this heightened sense of empathy, but she believes that they actually understand that another dolphin’s suffering is their own suffering.

海豚已经存在了很多很多百万年，她相信它们的进化不仅仅是为了具有这种高度的同理心，而且她相信它们实际上明白另一只海豚的痛苦就是他们自己的痛苦。

I love thinking about this.

我喜欢思考这个问题。

I love this idea that if we, as humans, can really start to understand that all of our suffering is the suffering of others.

我喜欢这个想法，即如果我们作为人类能够真正开始理解我们所有的痛苦都是他人的痛苦。

Animals understand that.

动物们都明白这一点。

Elephants understand that.

大象明白这一点。

I’ve witnessed that with orphaned herds and how much they care for each other.

我在孤儿牛群中亲眼目睹了这一点，以及它们是多么互相关心。

My great hope for humanity is that we, too, can evolve to really understand and feel one another’s suffering and joy.

我对人类最大的希望是，我们也能进化到真正理解和感受彼此的痛苦和快乐。

That, to me, is the only way we’re going to exist in the future.

对我来说，这是我们未来生存的唯一方式。

On bringing back extinct species

关于复活灭绝的物种

They believe that by bringing the woolly mammoth back, they will churn up that soil and serve in the way that bison served in the landscapes here in Montana.

他们相信，通过带回猛犸象，他们将搅动土壤，并像野牛在蒙大拿州的风景中那样服务。

The same thing happened.

同样的事情也发生了。

I’ll explain that a little more — you need to keep that land healthy.

我会再解释一点——你需要保持那片土地的健康。

When you don’t have the hooves and the animals grazing and working that landscape, it actually starts to suffer.

当你没有蹄子，没有动物在这片土地上吃草和劳作时，它实际上就会开始受到影响。

You need all these animals to create a healthy ecosystem.

您需要所有这些动物来创建一个健康的生态系统。

When you take out the keystone species, the whole land starts to suffer, and it trickles down to all the different species.

当你消灭关键物种时，整个土地开始受到影响，并且它会蔓延到所有不同的物种。

Their thinking is, by bringing the woolly mammoth back, it’s going to restore the landscape.

他们的想法是，通过带回猛犸象，就能恢复景观。

I actually think they have a much more interesting function as a company.

事实上，我认为作为一家公司，他们有更有趣的职能。

They actually are working with species that are close to extinction but are still here.

他们实际上正在研究濒临灭绝但仍然存在的物种。

For example, they’re teaming up with a northern white rhino in the BioRescue project.

例如，他们在 BioRescue 项目中与北方白犀牛合作。

By basically adding genetic diversity back to the embryos that they’ve created, the BioRescue project has created 29 viable embryos, and they’ll use southern white rhino surrogates to restore these species.

通过将遗传多样性重新添加到他们创造的胚胎中，BioRescue 项目已经创造了 29 个可存活的胚胎，他们将使用南方白犀牛替代品来恢复这些物种。

They only have two northern white rhino females alive, and they’re using just one female — her eggs — to create these embryos.

他们只有两只活着的雌性北方白犀牛，而且他们只使用一只雌性——“她的卵”——来创造这些胚胎。

They need more genetic diversity, and Colossal is able to go into museum specimens and add genetic diversity.

他们需要更多的遗传多样性，而 Colossal 能够进入博物馆标本并增加遗传多样性。

Taking this, I think that they have a really important value, and whether woolly mammoths are brought back — maybe it will happen in a hundred years from now.

考虑到这一点，我认为它们具有非常重要的价值，而猛犸象是否会被带回来 ——也许一百年后就会发生。

I don’t know if we’ll see this in our lifetime.

我不知道我们有生之年是否会看到这一点。

Maybe we will, but I think that there’s value more for the species that are currently here.

也许我们会，但我认为对于目前在这里的物种来说还有更多的价值。

We need to help these keystone species because, actually, I’ve seen it.

我们需要帮助这些关键物种，因为实际上我已经看到了。

I’ve seen environments — I work a lot in northern Kenya, and there are landscapes where keystone species have been locally extinct for about 30 years, and you really see how it starts to impact the entire ecosystem.

我见过环境 —— 我在肯尼亚北部工作了很多，那里的关键物种已经在当地灭绝了大约 30 年，你真的可以看到它如何开始影响整个生态系统。

Then I’ve seen the reverse, where they brought back these animals to these ecosystems, and it’s amazing how resilient nature is when they give it a chance.

然后我看到了相反的情况，他们将这些动物带回了这些生态系统，令人惊讶的是，当他们给自然一个机会时，它的恢复力是多么强大。

You bring it back.

你把它带回来。

We’ve seen examples in Yellowstone, in northern Kenya, when they brought rhinos and elephants back to these landscapes.

我们在肯尼亚北部的黄石公园看到过这样的例子，当时他们把犀牛和大象带回了这些地方。

Literally within five, ten years, you start to see the whole environment start to heal.

从字面上看，在五年、十年之内，你开始看到整个环境开始愈合。

For example, elephants tread up that grass.

例如，大象会踩那片草地。

They’re like huge mobile composting units.

它们就像巨大的移动堆肥装置。

The grass starts to grow and other species return.

草开始生长，其他物种也回归。

Then it’ll ultimately help human beings.

然后它最终会帮助人类。

I see all of us.

我看到我们所有人。

I think that’s the main thing — how do we start to see that we are part of this beautiful web and that every piece matters?

我认为这是主要的事情 —— 我们如何开始认识到我们是这个美丽网络的一部分，并且每一个部分都很重要？

Back to Stewart and his work with Colossal — I see a value in it.

回到斯图尔特和他与 Colossal 的合作——我看到了其中的价值。

I was very suspicious because very often people use these headlines to get attention, and you have to read through the headlines and really understand what is happening.

我非常怀疑，因为人们经常使用这些标题来引起注意，而你必须通读标题并真正了解正在发生的事情。

In this case, I see some value there.

在这种情况下，我看到了一些价值。

But I think the saddest part of this story is the loss of a wild — there are no more wild northern white rhinos.

但我认为这个故事中最悲伤的部分是野生北方白犀牛的消失——不再有野生北方白犀牛了。

I would say that, to me, is the biggest tragedy.

我想说，对我来说，这是最大的悲剧。

I feel like it’s not just the loss of an ecosystem, which is important in itself, but to me, it’s on this other level.

我觉得这不仅仅是生态系统的丧失，生态系统本身很重要，但对我来说，这是另一个层面的。

I feel like we are losing something so much a part of ourselves.

我觉得我们正在失去一些属于我们自己的东西。

We’re losing what it means to be wild.

我们正在失去狂野的意义。

We are animals too.

我们也是动物。

When we lose all these wild animals, we’re losing what it means to be wild.

当我们失去所有这些野生动物时，我们就失去了野生的意义。

On a philosophical level, I realize it’s like a loss of wonder and the wild of who we are when we lose so many species.

在哲学层面上，我意识到，当我们失去如此多的物种时，就像我们失去了好奇心和野性一样。

I’m sure all your listeners understand that we’re going through the sixth mass extinction, which is purely human-driven.

我相信你们所有的听众都明白，我们正在经历第六次大规模灭绝，这纯粹是人类造成的。

To me, I feel like we’re losing a piece of ourselves right now.

对我来说，我觉得我们现在正在失去自己的一部分。

On Kenya’s wildlife management

肯尼亚野生动物管理

Today, the greatest threat to these species is not poaching.

如今，这些物种面临的最大威胁不是偷猎。

It is actually climate change.

这实际上是气候变化。

How did they do it?

他们是怎么做到的？

How is Kenya so different from other countries?

肯尼亚与其他国家有何不同？

Well, I think it’s a few things.

嗯，我认为有几件事。

It’s greater policing, stricter laws, but the main thing is there is community engagement in protecting these creatures.

这是更强大的治安、更严格的法律，但最重要的是社区参与保护这些生物。

The communities living closest to the animals understand their value to them.

距离动物最近的社区了解它们对它们的价值。

During the pandemic, when the tourism stopped and so many other countries were facing poaching levels that had never been seen — for example, in South Africa during the pandemic, over 400 rhinos were poached.

疫情期间，当旅游业停止时，许多其他国家都面临着前所未有的偷猎程度——例如，在疫情期间的南非，就有 400 多头犀牛被偷猎。

Guess how many rhinos were poached in Kenya?

猜猜肯尼亚有多少头犀牛被偷猎？

Zero.

零。

Why is that?

这是为什么？

It’s because the communities understood that they need these wild animals, not just for healthy ecosystems, for their own survival.

这是因为社区明白他们需要这些野生动物，不仅仅是为了健康的生态系统，也是为了他们自己的生存。

They understood that they need them for tourism, they need them for a healthy ecosystem.

他们明白，他们需要它们来发展旅游业，他们需要它们来建立健康的生态系统。

It’s not that these animals aren’t difficult, for they will come in and eat farmers’ crops in one day that they’ve spent months cultivating.

这并不是说这些动物不困难，因为它们有一天会进来吃掉农民花了几个月耕种的庄稼。

These animals are dangerous.

这些动物很危险。

They’re wild animals.

他们是野生动物。

They present threats to people.

它们对人们构成威胁。

I think in the West, we no longer understand what it means to live with wild animals.

我认为在西方，我们不再理解与野生动物一起生活意味着什么。

People in many places around the world understand what it is to live with wild animals.

世界上许多地方的人们都了解与野生动物一起生活是什么感觉。

But Kenyans actually understand that they need to protect these animals, and the government is more involved in trying to support communities when elephants and rhinos, and there’s loss of life, loss of crops.

但肯尼亚人实际上明白他们需要保护这些动物，当大象和犀牛遭受生命损失和农作物损失时，政府更多地参与支持社区。

They’re trying to actively figure out ways — how do you coexist with these creatures.

他们正试图积极地找出方法 —— 如何与这些生物共存。

I love that you brought up Kenya because, honestly, as foreigners, it is a place that all of us can go.

我喜欢你提起肯尼亚，因为说实话，作为外国人，这是我们所有人都可以去的地方。

Our tourism dollars can make a huge impact.

我们的旅游收入可以产生巨大的影响。

We’re all in this big ecosystem, and we need to figure out where we should support conservation efforts.

我们都在这个大生态系统中，我们需要弄清楚我们应该在哪里支持保护工作。

Kenya is one of them because if you take the time to figure out where your tourism dollars are going to support communities, that is going to have a huge impact on how the communities take care of the wildlife.

肯尼亚就是其中之一，因为如果你花时间弄清楚你的旅游资金将用于支持社区，这将对社区如何照顾野生动物产生巨大影响。

That community also suffered gangs of poachers coming in and poaching the wildlife.

该社区还遭受偷猎团伙的袭击，偷猎野生动物。

This was a community pushing back and saying, “We need to protect the wildlife because we need them for our own survival, too.” Against all odds, they created the first indigenous-owned elephant sanctuary in all of Africa.

这是一个社区反驳说：“我们需要保护野生动物，因为我们自己的生存也需要它们。”他们克服重重困难，创建了全非洲第一个土著大象保护区。

Back when I first met them, it was just a dream, and many people laughed at them and thought, “There’s no way you’re going to be able to make an elephant sanctuary because they’re expensive and you don’t have the political power.

当我第一次见到他们时，这只是一个梦想，很多人嘲笑他们并认为，“你不可能建立一个大象保护区，因为它们很昂贵，而且你没有政治权力。

You don’t have the funding.”

你没有资金。”

But they did it.

但他们做到了。

I’ve been following along on their journey, and it’s really extraordinary.

我一直在追随他们的旅程，这真的很非凡。

It’s called Reteti Elephant Sanctuary.

它的名字叫雷特蒂大象保护区。

I hope anybody interested who has the means can go and visit this place because what they’re doing is changing, not just how people there relate to wild animals, but how they relate to each other.

我希望任何有兴趣、有能力的人都可以去参观这个地方，因为他们正在做的事情正在改变，不仅仅是那里的人们与野生动物的关系，还有他们彼此之间的关系。

It’s also the first elephant sanctuary that hires indigenous women to be elephant keepers in a very patriarchal society, and it’s transforming a lot.

这也是第一个在父权制社会中雇用土著妇女担任大象饲养员的大象保护区，而且它正在发生很大的变化。

They’re doing things differently there.

他们在那里做事的方式不同。

It’s so interesting.

太有趣了。

Another story — they’ve made huge impacts in our understanding of elephant behavior.

另一个故事——它们对我们对大象行为的理解产生了巨大影响。

Also, one of the great discoveries during the pandemic was, they were worried about what would happen.

此外，大流行期间的伟大发现之一是，他们担心会发生什么。

When an elephant is orphaned, they have to switch overnight from drinking its mother’s milk to drinking a powdered milk formula that is really made for human babies.

当大象成为孤儿时，它们必须在一夜之间从喝母乳转变为喝真正为人类婴儿制作的配方奶粉。

That is the most dangerous time for orphans.

那是孤儿最危险的时期。

They come into the sanctuary, and they often can’t handle that transition from drinking their own mother’s milk to a powdered milk formula, so 50 percent of the time, they die.

它们进入庇护所后，往往无法应对从喝自己母乳到喝配方奶粉的转变，所以 50% 的情况下，它们会死亡。

Reteti got worried during the pandemic about what would happen if we can’t even get ahold of the powdered milk formula because of supply chains breaking down.

雷特蒂在疫情期间担心，如果我们因为供应链中断而无法获得配方奶粉，会发生什么。

They started looking at nature for solutions, and they discovered that goats eat the same, browse the same vegetation as elephants do.

他们开始在大自然中寻找解决方案，他们发现山羊和大象吃同样的东西，吃同样的植被。

They started experimenting, and they made perhaps one of their greatest discoveries.

他们开始进行实验，并做出了也许是他们最伟大的发现之一。

They went from a 50 percent survival rate to a 98 percent survival rate.

他们的存活率从 50% 上升到 98%。

Now these babies come into the sanctuary, and they’re able to make that transition.

现在这些婴儿来到了庇护所，他们能够实现这一转变。

Another piece of the story, which I love, is that all that money that was being sent outside the country to big multinational milk companies — now that money’s all staying within the community.

我喜欢的另一个故事是，所有这些钱都被送到国外的大型跨国牛奶公司——现在这些钱都留在了社区内。

I went with the milk mamas, is what they call them.

我和牛奶妈妈一起去了，他们就是这么称呼她们的。

It’s the women Samburu who own the goats, and they set up bank accounts for the first time in their lives.

桑布鲁妇女拥有这些山羊，她们有生以来第一次开设银行账户。

They’re able to send their kids to school, to have money for healthcare.

他们能够送孩子上学，有钱用于医疗保健。

It’s absolutely changing the whole community.

它绝对改变了整个社区。

The people there always tell me, “It’s not us saving the baby elephants.

那里的人们总是告诉我，“不是我们在拯救小象。

The elephants are saving us.”

大象正在拯救我们。”

I just love watching all the discoveries they keep making.

我只是喜欢看他们不断做出的所有发现。

They have had a long relationship over generations, living with wildlife.

他们世代相传，与野生动物一起生活。

They have so much to teach all of us.

他们有很多东西可以教给我们所有人。

I think there is this great understanding happening around the world that there’s so much knowledge.

我认为世界各地都存在着这样一种伟大的认识：知识如此之多。

We, as Westerners, need to start listening to some of the knowledge that is right there with the people living closest to these creatures.

作为西方人，我们需要开始倾听与这些生物最接近的人们所掌握的一些知识。

On a decade in conflict photojournalism

冲突新闻摄影的十年

I immediately understood that I could not do parachute journalism.

我立即明白我无法从事降落伞新闻工作。

It is really important to take time to understand these stories that we’re covering.

花时间理解我们正在报道的这些故事非常重要。

I ended up living in Kashmir for four years to cover the war between India and Pakistan and taking that time to listen, to truly hear people’s stories.

我最终在克什米尔生活了四年，报道印度和巴基斯坦之间的战争，并花时间倾听，真正倾听人们的故事。

I think what drew me in was the people I met.

我认为吸引我的是我遇到的人。

I am always shocked in these places that are so brutal, where you see the worst of humanity, I also met the people, the best of humanity, who taught me so much.

在这些如此残酷的地方，我总是感到震惊，在那里你看到人性最坏的一面，我也遇到了人性最好的人，他们教会了我很多东西。

They kept me coming back.

他们让我回来。

After 10 years of that, that’s when I really shifted.

十年后，我才真正发生转变。

I was broken and raw and wanted to quit.

我心碎了，很原始，想放弃。

It was then I really began to realize this connection, that I had been telling these stories about people in the human condition, but at the backdrop of every single one of them was always the natural world.

就在那时，我真正开始意识到这种联系，我一直在讲述这些关于人类状况下的人的故事，但每个人的背景总是自然世界。

That was my profound awakening, when I began to understand that in every single example — well, not every example, but in many of them, it was scarcity of basic resources like water and in others, a changing climate and loss of fertile lands.

那是我深刻的觉醒，当我开始明白，在每一个例子中——好吧，不是每一个例子，但在许多例子中，都是因为水等基本资源的稀缺，以及气候变化和肥沃土地的丧失。

Almost always, it is the demands placed on our ecosystem that drive conflict and human suffering.

几乎总是，正是对我们生态系统的要求引发了冲突和人类苦难。

That was my big shift in understanding that it was important to talk about the conflicts, but it was equally important to talk about what we’re doing to this planet.

这是我认识上的重大转变，即谈论冲突很重要，但谈论我们正在为这个星球所做的事情也同样重要。

Just in this last year alone, how many more conflicts have started around the world?

仅在去年，世界各地又爆发了多少冲突？

How many more coups?

还有多少政变？

I think in Africa just this year, maybe the last six months, is it six or seven more coups?

我想就在今年，也许在过去的六个月里，非洲又发生了六七次政变吗？

Tyler, you know this better than I, but I see it, and I think to not acknowledge that connection is ignorant.

泰勒，你比我更了解这一点，但我看到了这一点，而且我认为不承认这种联系是无知的。

We need to start paying attention to that.

我们需要开始关注这一点。

We’re going to see so many more conflicts if we do not pay attention.

如果我们不注意的话，我们将会看到更多的冲突。

To focus on what do we do, it’s not enough as a journalist.

作为一名记者，仅仅专注于我们所做的事情是不够的。

That was something else that made me deeply uncomfortable, which is, I was asked to focus on the violence, show just one piece of the story.

还有一件事让我深感不舒服，那就是，我被要求专注于暴力，只展示故事的一部分。

Never was I asked to tell the stories that acknowledge where we go, what do we do, where are the solutions?

我从来没有被要求讲述一些故事来说明我们要去哪里、我们做什么、解决方案在哪里？

Are there solutions?

有解决办法吗？

I know there’s no easy balm and no solution for so many of these problems.

我知道对于这么多问题没有简单的解决方案，也没有解决方案。

But the truth is, in every story I’ve covered, there are amazing people who are working to try to find answers, but we don’t highlight their work.

但事实是，在我报道的每个故事中，都有一些了不起的人正在努力寻找答案，但我们不会强调他们的工作。

As journalists, we have to do a better job of not just talking about the challenges we face, but where do we go from here?

作为记者，我们必须做得更好，不仅要谈论我们面临的挑战，还要讨论我们下一步该何去何从？

What do we do?

我们该怎么办？

There are people in every single story, and we need to focus on their stories as well.

每个故事中都有人物，我们也需要关注他们的故事。

I had examples of seeing the fact that I always chose to go to tell stories that not a lot of journalists were covering.

我有例子看到这样一个事实：我总是选择去讲述没有很多记者报道的故事。

I realized that sometimes it was getting those images back into the international dialogue that was important, and that’s when I needed to stay.

我意识到有时将这些图像重新纳入国际对话中很重要，而这就是我需要留下来的时候。

In year nine, you didn’t want to know me.

第九年，你不想认识我。

I was really depressed and not in a good place.

我真的很沮丧，处境并不好。

Then year 10, that’s when I really understood that I needed to take a break and step away from covering the horrors of the world because I was not able to think clearly.

然后到了第十年，我才真正明白我需要休息一下，远离报道世界的恐怖，因为我无法清晰地思考。

Actually, that is how so many of my colleagues end up getting killed, because you don’t know when to stop and take a break, because you need to be 100 percent present and clear about what’s happening in front of you.

事实上，这就是我很多同事最终被杀的原因，因为你不知道什么时候停下来休息一下，因为你需要百分百在场，清楚眼前发生的事情。

If you’re so broken, you can’t do that.

如果你太崩溃了，你就不能这么做。

So, in year 10, I took a break.

所以，在第十年，我休息了一会儿。

In that break, a conservation organization approached me and asked me to do work on talking about forests and how important they are.

在那段时间，一个保护组织找到我，要求我谈论森林及其重要性。

That’s also when I began my story on the northern white rhinos.

也是从那时起，我开始了关于北方白犀牛的故事。

That was the moment I began to understand that connection to the natural world, and I needed to also tell the stories about the natural world and how connected they are to all of these conflicts.

从那时起，我开始理解与自然世界的联系，我还需要讲述有关自然世界的故事以及它们与所有这些冲突的联系。

In 1997, I returned to work for a small business newspaper.

1997年，我回到一家小型商业报纸工作。

I got to meet really interesting people — Václav Havel.

我遇到了非常有趣的人 —— 瓦茨拉夫·哈维尔。

There was this moment right after the wall had come down.

就在墙倒塌之后的这一刻。

It was this moment of so much hope, and it was exciting, very exciting to be there.

这是充满希望的时刻，我很兴奋，非常兴奋能在那里。

That quickly shifted to quitting my job and covering the war in the Balkans in 1997.

我很快就辞去了工作，转而报道 1997 年巴尔干战争。

Almost nine months later, I was there as conflict was unfolding, and I ended up quitting that job and becoming a war photographer without really knowing what I was doing, but just something inside of me knew I had to go.

大约九个月后，当冲突正在展开时，我在那里，最终我辞掉了那份工作，成为了一名战地摄影师，但我并不真正知道自己在做什么，但我内心深处知道我必须离开。

So I don’t lament the loss, to be honest, because right now digital has transformed our world.

所以说实话，我并不哀叹这种损失，因为现在数字已经改变了我们的世界。

We can go into the world and bring back these really important news stories from the field and transmit them faster than we ever have.

我们可以走进世界，从现场带回这些真正重要的新闻报道，并以前所未有的速度传播它们。

There’s a whole other list of issues we have to talk about with AI.

关于人工智能，我们还有很多其他问题需要讨论。

But to me, honestly, it’s probably better for the environment.

但老实说，对我来说，这可能对环境更好。

I think about all the chemicals we dumped into the planet.

我想到了我们倾倒到地球上的所有化学物质。

Yes, there is a loss of that beautiful texture.

是的，美丽的质感消失了。

Every image was unique.

每张图片都是独一无二的。

I think that there’s no time in human history where, as creatives, we can create anything we want.

我认为，在人类历史上，没有任何一个时期，作为创意者，我们可以创造出我们想要的任何东西。

From a creative perspective, we can still create unique images and create anything we imagine.

从创意的角度来看，我们仍然可以创造出独特的图像，创造出任何我们想象的东西。

At the same time, then I, as a journalist with my journalist hat on, I worry about authenticity and what are we going to do to make sure we have ways of identifying when images are authentic and have not been manipulated.

与此同时，作为一名戴着记者帽子的记者，我担心真实性，以及我们将采取什么措施来确保我们有办法识别图像何时是真实的并且未被操纵。

I think that both camera companies and the companies like Adobe who do post-processing manipulation are working to be able to figure out how we can create these stamps on the images to know they’re authentic.

我认为相机公司和像 Adob​​e 这样进行后期处理的公司都在努力弄清楚如何在图像上创建这些印记以确保它们是真实的。

We’re in troubling times right now.

我们现在正处于困难时期。

Taking your question into a totally different space, I worry more about AI and what it’s doing to the trust of how do we know what’s real and misinformation.

把你的问题带到一个完全不同的领域，我更担心人工智能以及它对我们如何知道什么是真实信息和错误信息的信任所做的事情。

We’re entering new waters right now that are terrifying.

我们现在正在进入令人恐惧的新水域。

I think more about that than I think about the loss of film.

我对这一点的思考比对胶片损失的思考更多。

I look for a story and image, and I am just going to continue doing what I do because I think people are hungry for it.

我寻找一个故事和图像，我将继续做我所做的事情，因为我认为人们对此感到渴望。

They want to know who is really going deep on stories and who they can trust.

他们想知道谁真正在深入讲述故事以及他们可以信任谁。

I think that that has never gone away, and it will never go away.

我认为这一点从未消失，也永远不会消失。

I actually enjoy having social media because it’s allowed me to connect with people in a really real way that I never could have connected with.

我实际上很喜欢社交媒体，因为它让我能够以一种我以前无法做到的真实方式与人们联系。

There was always the media that we worked for, and I could never connect with people.

我们总是为媒体工作，但我永远无法与人们建立联系。

Now I have this one-to-one connection, and it is individuals who have empowered me sometimes to go and continue telling the stories that I tell today.

现在我有了这种一对一的联系，正是个人有时赋予我力量去继续讲述我今天讲述的故事。

I think that you just have to be adaptable in today’s world and keep adapting to the changing landscapes that we’re dealing with.

我认为你只需要适应当今世界，并不断适应我们正在应对的不断变化的环境。

But I always think about stories.

但我总是想着故事。

How do we tell the stories in a really deep, meaningful way?

我们如何以真正深刻、有意义的方式讲述故事？

I think visual images, by the way, have never had more reach and power than they do today.

顺便说一句，我认为视觉图像从未像今天这样具有更大的影响力和力量。

I will always love the power of what we do because we can reach people both intellectually, but also with our hearts, and that is really important.

我将永远热爱我们所做的事情的力量，因为我们既可以在智力上，也可以用我们的心灵接触人们，这非常重要。

Sure enough, he was right.

果然，他是对的。

There were cougars in this landscape, and the problem is that they were separated from habitat across 10 lanes of traffic.

这片土地上有美洲狮，问题是它们与栖息地相隔 10 条车道。

His one image is what actually was the catalyst to create the world’s largest wildlife overpass.

他的一张照片实际上是创建世界上最大的野生动物立交桥的催化剂。

For people that don’t think images can change the world or help and be a catalyst for positive changes, let me point you to Steve Winter’s image.

对于那些认为图像不能改变世界或帮助并成为积极变化的催化剂的人，让我向您介绍史蒂夫·温特的图像。

It is memorable.

令人难忘。

You can’t forget it once you’ve looked at it.

一旦你看过它，你就无法忘记它。

I think a lot of these images push all of us, as photographers, to become advocates.

我认为很多这样的图像促使我们所有人，作为摄影师，成为倡导者。

Steve has set up a great nonprofit that advocates for big cats around the world and the struggles they face.

史蒂夫建立了一个伟大的非营利组织，为世界各地的大型猫科动物以及它们所面临的困境发声。

For a lot of us, the truth is, as photographers, we are usually introverts.

对于我们很多人来说，事实是，作为摄影师，我们通常都很内向。

We’re usually shy.

我们通常很害羞。

We like being behind the camera.

我们喜欢在镜头后面。

I don’t enjoy being in the public eye, but once you take these powerful images, you realize these images and the stories give us voice, and we have to go and advocate for what we see.

我不喜欢出现在公众视野中，但是一旦你拍摄了这些强有力的图像，你就会意识到这些图像和故事给了我们声音，我们必须去倡导我们所看到的。

Yes, that’s one story, and there are so many more.

是的，这就是一个故事，还有更多。

I really pay attention, and it doesn’t matter where you are, but you need to take the time to first get the blessings of the people you’re photographing, let them understand why you’re there, what you’re doing, and be sensitive.

我真的很注意，无论你在哪里，但你需要花时间首先得到你拍摄的人的祝福，让他们理解你为什么在那里，你在做什么，并且保持敏感。

That is an example of it.

这就是一个例子。

Maybe this is a wonderful photographer who took all these pictures that are iconic, but in this case, we’re hearing now the stories that it was traumatic for the girl that was photographed.

也许这是一位出色的摄影师，拍摄了所有这些标志性的照片，但在这种情况下，我们现在听到的故事是，被拍照的女孩受到了创伤。

It’s really important to understand that for anybody with a camera, that it can be a weapon in many ways and can be really exploitative.

重要的是要明白，对于任何拥有相机的人来说，它可以在很多方面成为一种武器，并且可以真正具有剥削性。

A lot of cultures believe that photography takes a piece of their soul.

许多文化都相信摄影占据了他们灵魂的一部分。

Even the Samburu, the community I work in — they also say that photography can take a piece of our soul.

即使是我工作的桑布鲁社区，他们也说摄影可以带走我们灵魂的一部分。

When I’m working in places, I pay attention to these stories of the photographers that went before me, and I make sure that people really want me there.

当我在一些地方工作时，我会关注那些在我之前的摄影师的故事，并确保人们真的希望我在那里。

I need to know I have their permission.

我需要知道我得到了他们的许可。

That is something all of us need to really reflect on and pay attention to.

这是值得我们所有人认真反思和重视的。

It’s not that I think it is wrong for outsiders to take pictures and tell stories.

并不是我认为外人拍照、讲故事有错。

First of all, you need to make sure you have permission to be there.

首先，您需要确保您获得那里的许可。

I think it’s important to have a multitude of viewpoints.

我认为拥有多种观点很重要。

Sometimes outsiders can give great perspective to a story, but you need to have the permission, the blessings of the community first and foremost.

有时外人可以为一个故事提供很好的视角，但你首先需要获得社区的许可和祝福。

I also ask, “Well, in today’s world with all of these platforms and ways of sharing stories, why shouldn’t the people whose stories you’re telling be able to tell their own stories?” I’m trying to do everything I can with my nonprofit to give the tools and give access.

我还问，“那么，在当今世界，拥有所有这些平台和分享故事的方式，为什么你所讲述的故事的人不能讲述他们自己的故事呢？”我正在尽我所能与我的非营利组织合作，提供工具和访问权限。

We need to hear the stories from everybody because the only way we’re going to create a more equitable world and get to a more balanced world is by having that multitude of voices and people sharing their own stories.

我们需要听到每个人的故事，因为我们要创造一个更加公平的世界并实现一个更加平衡的世界的唯一方法就是让众多的声音和人们分享自己的故事。

On National Geographic

关于国家地理

It’s important to differentiate between National Geographic Society and National Geographic.

区分国家地理学会和国家地理非常重要。

One is a nonprofit leg of it, and one is a for-profit side.

一个是非营利性的部分，一个是营利性的部分。

I think that you will see slightly different missions and work coming out of both sides of that institution.

我认为您会看到该机构双方的使命和工作略有不同。

I think, Tyler, you may know this, as somebody who’s had the privilege of traveling as much as you have, that we need more understanding, truly listening to each other and understanding the people and the things that are different than what we know.

我想，泰勒，作为一个有幸像你一样经常旅行的人，你可能知道这一点，我们需要更多的理解，真正地倾听彼此，理解那些与我们所知道的不同的人和事。

I do not want to relax right now.

我现在不想放松。

I want to empower others to share their own stories.

我想让其他人分享他们自己的故事。

I don’t need to travel as much anymore.

我不再需要那么多旅行了。

I actually think that I can do a lot of work right here from home, and maybe my imprint on the world can be by supporting others to tell those stories.

事实上，我认为我可以在家做很多工作，也许我在世界上的印记可以通过支持其他人讲述这些故事来实现。

I one day want to interview you.

有一天我想采访你。

Is that possible because —

这可能吗，因为 ——

On spotting young talent in photography

论发掘摄影领域的年轻人才

In the beginning, a lot of people told me I didn’t belong there.

一开始，很多人告诉我我不属于那里。

I shouldn’t be there.

我不应该在那儿。

I’m so proud that we’ve made a great change in the last 20 years.

我很自豪我们在过去 20 年里取得了巨大的变化。

We still have a ton of work to do, but I think that in today’s world, there are probably more female photographers and journalists out there graduating from schools than there are men.

我们还有大量工作要做，但我认为在当今世界，从学校毕业的女性摄影师和记者可能比男性还要多。

I’m glad about that because it changes the way the world looks, but we need to work harder to make it more equitable for a lot more diversity coming out of journalism school right now.

我对此感到很高兴，因为它改变了世界的面貌，但我们需要更加努力地工作，使其更加公平，以便新闻学院现在产生更多的多样性。

Actually, those are the people that I want in the field.

事实上，这些人就是我想要进入这个领域的人。

The sensitive souls, the people who are not thinking it’s about them.

敏感的灵魂，那些不认为这与他们有关的人。

They don’t have large egos.

他们没有太大的自负。

I actually want them out in the world, telling the stories.

我实际上希望他们走出去，讲故事。

I am the underdog.

我是失败者。

I’m always getting behind the underdogs in the world.

我总是支持世界上的弱者。